Speaker 1: Hi again everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast.
Speaker 2: The I'm going back to Indiana. Addition, as we head
Speaker 2: to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Coming up, you'll
Speaker 2: hear from Greg Cosel from NFL Films, Notre Dame Safety,
Speaker 2: Xavier Watts, a possible Bengals target, and NFL Network draft
Speaker 2: Guru Lance zero Line. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought
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Speaker 1: Of the Bengals.
Speaker 2: Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the
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Speaker 2: the greatest thing since unclaimed funds. My wife recently encouraged
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Speaker 2: Just search for unclaimed funds, and the name of a
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Speaker 2: if there are any unclaimed funds under your name. If
Speaker 2: there are, you'll have to fill out some paperwork in
Speaker 2: order to receive the money. Sure enough, I don't know
Speaker 2: whether it was because of a change of address or
Speaker 2: an oversight by a former employer, but Peg and I
Speaker 2: both have some cold, hard cash coming our way. It's
Speaker 2: not a huge amount, but hey, it's found money, so
Speaker 2: give it a shot. Hopefully your luck will be even
Speaker 2: better than ours. Now, let's get to my first guest.
Speaker 2: It's NFL Combine Week in Indianapolis, giving me the opportunity
Speaker 2: to talk to some of my favorite NFL analysts and
Speaker 2: draft gurus, as well as some of the players that
Speaker 2: the Bengals might be.
Speaker 1: Targeting in this year's draft.
Speaker 2: First, a favorite guest on this podcast who is uniquely
Speaker 2: capable of discussing the state of the Bengals as well
Speaker 2: as some of the draft prospects who could eventually wind
Speaker 2: up in Orange and black. One of my favorite things
Speaker 2: about coming to the Combine every year is the opportunity
Speaker 2: to visit with a great Greg co cell. Duke Tobin
Speaker 2: held a news conference on Tuesday where he referred to
Speaker 2: the Bengals as quote, a championship caliber team, despite the
Speaker 2: fact that the Bengals have missed the playoffs the last
Speaker 2: couple of years. Do you agree with Duke Tobin?
Speaker 3: Well, I think the reason you say that is because
Speaker 3: they have one of the three or four best quarterbacks
Speaker 3: in the league, and they've obviously got a wide receiving
Speaker 3: corps that is high level. They've got Jamar Chase, who's,
Speaker 3: depending on one's point of view, we are the first
Speaker 3: or second best receiver in football. So I think that
Speaker 3: that's kind of where it starts. And Burrow is so
Speaker 3: so good. The guy plays the position like a computer
Speaker 3: chip that you know, you just you watch him and
Speaker 3: you just feel like, God, this team's a really good team.
Speaker 3: But you know, as you know, Dan, I think there's
Speaker 3: a lot of questions as we sit here at the combine,
Speaker 3: and it's very early in the process, so we don't
Speaker 3: know the answers to these questions, but there are legitimate
Speaker 3: questions that.
Speaker 4: In my view, don't put them in the category.
Speaker 3: As we sit here, you know, late in February, as
Speaker 3: they're a championship team.
Speaker 4: I think there's too many questions right now.
Speaker 2: They've missed the playoffs because their defense wasn't good enough.
Speaker 2: They were one of the top scoring teams in the league.
Speaker 2: You assume that will continue to be the case as
Speaker 2: long as Joe Burrow is in Cincinnati and healthy. What
Speaker 2: stood out to you about their deficiencies on defense when
Speaker 2: you watch the Bengals last year.
Speaker 4: I think there's a number of them.
Speaker 3: I mean I think that, you know, I love Trey Hendrickson,
Speaker 3: and I know he's under contract for another year. You know,
Speaker 3: he's grossly underpaid. We'll see how all that plays out.
Speaker 3: But he's a really good pass rusher. He lived the
Speaker 3: league in sacks, did he not. Yeah, he's really good,
Speaker 3: you know. I think that On the other side, that's
Speaker 3: an open question. And with what they're probably going to
Speaker 3: line up with at de tackle right now, younger players
Speaker 3: who are not true pass rushers, so they need another
Speaker 3: pass rusher, and I think that's important right now. The
Speaker 3: other thing that I think two other things I thought
Speaker 3: really hurt.
Speaker 4: Them last year.
Speaker 3: In previous years, I thought that Wilson and Pratt were
Speaker 3: really good duo at linebacker. We know Wilson got hurt,
Speaker 3: but I don't think he played to the same level
Speaker 3: before the injury. And I don't think Pratt played to
Speaker 3: the same level last year at all. And I had
Speaker 3: always been a Pratt guy based on tape, but it
Speaker 3: just wasn't there. And then the second part of that
Speaker 3: equation was the secondary. The secondary was problematic.
Speaker 4: We know that, we don't have to guess that because they.
Speaker 3: Ben Taylor Bread two or three times, So that told
Speaker 3: you right there. So they ended up playing the rookie
Speaker 3: Newton from TCU, who, by the way, I really liked
Speaker 3: his college tape and I thought he played well down
Speaker 3: the stretch when he played. But clearly the secondary was
Speaker 3: a little bit of a revolving door and it was
Speaker 3: an issue. And unfortunately Hill got hurt. He made the
Speaker 3: transition to corner, and I loved him as a potential
Speaker 3: corner coming out of Michigan. You and I talked last
Speaker 3: year that at safety, maybe he didn't see the game
Speaker 3: as quickly as he had to. But he has major
Speaker 3: corner traits and he played really well until he got hurt.
Speaker 3: So that's a question. Now does he stay on the outside.
Speaker 3: He has slot experience from his college days at Michigan.
Speaker 3: With Mike Hilton being a free agent, do they move
Speaker 3: him in the slot and try to figure out, you know,
Speaker 3: amongst two or three other guys, the Newtons, the tailor, Bread's,
Speaker 3: the DJ Turner, who is the second round pick? Did
Speaker 3: they try to figure that out? You know, these are
Speaker 3: questions as we sit here in late February.
Speaker 4: They have to figure out too.
Speaker 3: That's what the OTAs and the mini camps and training
Speaker 3: camps are for. And again with the draft coming up
Speaker 3: in free agency, they'll probably some other players in the mix.
Speaker 1: We're visiting with Greg Cosell.
Speaker 2: You put together awesome draft scouting reports on these guys.
Speaker 2: I know you've been grinding the tape. From the draft
Speaker 2: gurus that I've talked to here in Indianapolis, there seems
Speaker 2: to be a consensus that it's a good year to
Speaker 2: draft a defensive lineman. The Bengals have a need. Okay,
Speaker 2: so let's start there. Defensive tackle is an area where
Speaker 2: the Bengals can find somebody.
Speaker 3: And it's funny you say that because look, they drafted
Speaker 3: Chris Jenkins, they drafted McKinley Jackson, two players who I
Speaker 3: like on tape, but I wouldn't call either one a
Speaker 3: pass rusher in a strict sense. Now again, you don't
Speaker 3: need two dtackles who were great pass rushers. But I
Speaker 3: think as we saw and again, very often teams look
Speaker 3: at Super Bowl type teams or teams that get there
Speaker 3: and think that, hey, you know, maybe this is a
Speaker 3: month look at what.
Speaker 4: The Eagles did.
Speaker 3: I mean, we know Jalen Carter is, he's a great player,
Speaker 3: but Milton Williams opposite Jalen Carter, he got a lot of.
Speaker 4: One on ones and he won them.
Speaker 3: See it's easy to say, oh, well, you know Jalen
Speaker 3: Carter's on the other side, but you still got to
Speaker 3: win the one on ones. And Milton Williams, who, by
Speaker 3: the way, is a free agent, and you know again
Speaker 3: he could get twenty one to twenty two million dollars
Speaker 3: a year. He could be in high demand. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying the Bengals are going to look to him. Who knows,
Speaker 3: but he can rush the quarterback. But this is a
Speaker 3: really good detackle draft. They come in all shapes and sizes,
Speaker 3: as they often do, so I personally think they have
Speaker 3: to think in terms of a pass rusher, not a
Speaker 3: run defender. I think Both Jenkins and McKinley Jackson are
Speaker 3: solid interior run defenders and can be good at that,
Speaker 3: But I think that they need to find a guy
Speaker 3: that they believe can become a sub front pass rusher
Speaker 3: on the inside.
Speaker 2: From the guys you've studied who fits that description Among
Speaker 2: the defensive tackles.
Speaker 3: Well, depending on where you want to draft. My favorite detail,
Speaker 3: and I've done a good number of them. I love
Speaker 3: the Walter Nolan kid from All miss You know the
Speaker 3: way I think about you and how I do this. Obviously,
Speaker 3: you have to look at a player's traits and attributes
Speaker 3: when you evaluate a college player, But then I think
Speaker 3: about the NFL because that's ultimately.
Speaker 4: What we're doing.
Speaker 3: Then we're trying to project and transition guys to play
Speaker 3: at the next level, not how they play on Saturday,
Speaker 3: how they play on Sunday. And I really can't find
Speaker 3: any higher level D tackles in the NFL that don't
Speaker 3: have a strong power element to their game. And Mason
Speaker 3: Graham is a fun, fun watch. Okay, he's a lot
Speaker 3: of fun, but he doesn't have a big power element
Speaker 3: to his game. So again, that doesn't mean in three
Speaker 3: years he won't, you know, you never know that stuff.
Speaker 3: And I hear he's a great kid, and you know,
Speaker 3: but Nolan right now, I mean he has shades of
Speaker 3: Jalen Carter in him when you watch his tape in
Speaker 3: the SEC he moves people. Then there's a kid, and
Speaker 3: again it depends where you want to draft. There's a
Speaker 3: kid from South Carolina who I like, TJ. Sanders. He's
Speaker 3: a little more athletic, which is why you wouldn't think
Speaker 3: of him as a first round type player, but he
Speaker 3: can rush the quarterback and you know. So there's guys
Speaker 3: like that, and I know I'm missing names because I've
Speaker 3: seen so many, and I feel like, you know, my
Speaker 3: head's in a swirl here because that's all I've been doing,
Speaker 3: is grinding through watching players. But they come in all
Speaker 3: shapes and sizes in this draft, and you can I
Speaker 3: had someone I respect greatly who's done this for years
Speaker 3: and years tell me that he wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 3: twenty defensive tackles won in the first three rounds.
Speaker 4: So it's a big d tackle draft.
Speaker 2: The Bengals have the seventeenth pick. My suspicion is if
Speaker 2: they had a defensive tackle that they felt was worthy
Speaker 2: of that selection, that would probably be their inclination. But
Speaker 2: they need pass rushers too. As you mentioned, how is
Speaker 2: that in this draft?
Speaker 3: It's pretty good and I have a feeling, Look, this
Speaker 3: is an odd draft because it's not a quarterback draft
Speaker 3: and it's not a.
Speaker 4: Wide receiver draft.
Speaker 3: So what I've spoken to people who tell me in
Speaker 3: a normal year there's fifteen to eighteen players with first
Speaker 3: round grades.
Speaker 4: This year I'm hearing there's ten. But the point is
Speaker 4: you have to draft.
Speaker 3: You know, there's thirty two teams that have to draft
Speaker 3: in the first round, so you have to draft. So
Speaker 3: you know, there are players like Nick Gourton from A
Speaker 3: and M, who actually led the Big Ten in sacks
Speaker 3: last year at Purdue and then transfer to A and M.
Speaker 4: He's an interesting player. He's like six four, two eighty.
Speaker 3: I mean, my guess is he's in that range of
Speaker 3: seventeen and he shows flashes where he could be a
Speaker 3: quality edge pass rusher. Then there's a lot of guys
Speaker 3: who are like his teammate at A and M is
Speaker 3: a kid named Shamir Stewart. You've probably heard of that name.
Speaker 3: He's a freak, but he doesn't know how to rush
Speaker 3: the quarterback. But he's six five, two eighty one, and
Speaker 3: when you put on his tape and watch him run
Speaker 3: people down, you think you're watching his safety.
Speaker 4: And his arms are like thirty.
Speaker 3: Five and a half, and you know that means something
Speaker 3: in the scouting business. So I mean, is he going
Speaker 3: to be there at seventeen. I certainly don't know that.
Speaker 3: No one knows that, but there are there are going
Speaker 3: to be players to take at seventeen, either a d
Speaker 3: tackle or at d end. It just depends on who
Speaker 3: you like and what flavor you like.
Speaker 2: It's not a wide receiver draft, as you mentioned. Is
Speaker 2: it a tight end draft?
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: I think there's four that are really to me high,
Speaker 3: high level intriguing, and then there's fifteen that are going
Speaker 3: to play in the league for sure. And I think
Speaker 3: the four are Loveland from Michigan, who's not going to
Speaker 3: work out here. In fact, I saw him speaking. He's
Speaker 3: his left arms and his slaying. He's almost like a
Speaker 3: wide receiver type. There's Tyler Warren, who I did last
Speaker 3: summer as well, and I love that kid.
Speaker 4: I think he's the best all around tight en. He's
Speaker 4: not going to be there at seventeen, not this draft.
Speaker 3: And then you have Mason Taylor from LSU, who's Jason
Speaker 3: Taylor's son, really intriguing player and the kid who to
Speaker 3: me is totally ascending, and it would it wouldn't surprise
Speaker 3: me if in two, three, four years we're talking about
Speaker 3: him among the best in the league. As the kid
Speaker 3: from Miami Arroyo, Elijah Royo. That kid is a freakish athlete.
Speaker 3: And he's not a terrible blocker, but he's a freakish athlete.
Speaker 3: And I saw him speaking today. He looks the part too.
Speaker 3: I mean you just see the body type, you know.
Speaker 3: So then there's like I said, there's probably.
Speaker 4: Fifteen guys they're going to play in the league.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're quote unquote number one tight ends,
Speaker 3: but they're gonna play in the league.
Speaker 2: The Bengals drafted Eric All last year out of Iowa.
Speaker 2: He was tremendous. Unfortunately he re injured his knee. It's
Speaker 2: significant enough that he's going to miss this entire season.
Speaker 2: But did you see enough of him from his time
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati to thank boy, if this guy could stay healthy,
Speaker 2: they've got something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the Michigan, Iowa kid who's kind of
Speaker 3: fell under the radar a bit because you know, he
Speaker 3: didn't catch a ton in Michigan, didn't catch a ton
Speaker 3: at Iowa because they have multiple tight ends who are
Speaker 3: obviously very good, and they don't have a great passing game,
Speaker 3: as you know at Iowa, you know, you being in
Speaker 3: Big ten country. So I'm really I thought all it
Speaker 3: was a really all choose me, not all at all.
Speaker 3: Was an intriguing guy. And it's a shame. I didn't
Speaker 3: know until you just told me that he's going to
Speaker 3: miss the season. So now you wonder, you know, does
Speaker 3: he ever really play at that at a level at
Speaker 3: which he could play. So, yeah, they're gonna need a
Speaker 3: tight end. So and like I said, you can get
Speaker 3: a tight end in this draft. Now it comes down
Speaker 3: to do you want one early because you think that
Speaker 3: that guy's going to be that guy that kind of
Speaker 3: tight end which they really haven't had in recent years,
Speaker 3: or you know, do you take one who's just a
Speaker 3: really solid player but not necessarily one of those guys
Speaker 3: that becomes an organizational decision.
Speaker 2: We're visiting with Greg Cosell. I want to circle back
Speaker 2: to Trey Hendrickson. As you mentioned, he did lead the
Speaker 2: NFL in sacks this year with seventeen and a half,
Speaker 2: second year in a row he's had seventeen and a half.
Speaker 2: Is he strictly one of the best pass rushers in
Speaker 2: the NFL? Or do you consider him to be one
Speaker 2: of the top defensive ends all around?
Speaker 3: I mean I would lean toward the latter part there.
Speaker 3: I mean, is he the best run defender we've seen? No,
Speaker 3: but I don't think that's a weakness in his game.
Speaker 3: But he's a really good pass you know. And it's
Speaker 3: funny I spoke about power with d tackles, it's true
Speaker 3: with d ns as well. I'm fortunate that I've been
Speaker 3: able to go to the O Line Masterminds event, which
Speaker 3: is in Frisco, Texas, every year in July, and Duke
Speaker 3: Mannywether does a great job and he brings in prison
Speaker 3: O Lineman brings in Hall of Fame O Lineman. And
Speaker 3: I had an unbelievably great conversation two years ago with
Speaker 3: Andrew Whitworth, who you obviously know well, and you know,
Speaker 3: he said something that just totally resonated because you know,
Speaker 3: I don't fancy myself an offensive line guru, you know, certainly,
Speaker 3: Andrew Whitworth.
Speaker 4: Knows a little more about playing offensive line than I do.
Speaker 4: And he said to me, it's all about power.
Speaker 3: He said, all these guys that want to dance and
Speaker 3: try to run around me, I can deal with that
Speaker 3: all day long, because at some point they got to
Speaker 3: get through me.
Speaker 4: He says, I'm there. If they want to dance, more
Speaker 4: power to him.
Speaker 3: And I think what is so impressive about Hendrickson bringing
Speaker 3: it back to him is he can win by just
Speaker 3: going right through the chest to people. And at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, if you don't have a power
Speaker 3: element as a pass rusher in this league, it's really hard.
Speaker 4: To be concident.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're dealing with the guy that's, you know,
Speaker 3: had seventeen plus sacks two years in a row. Even
Speaker 3: before that, he put up good sack numbers. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's got a strong power element to his game.
Speaker 1: And one thing he does not do is dance.
Speaker 4: No, he does not do that. He does not do that.
Speaker 2: The Bengals new defensive coordinator, he's been at Notre Dame
Speaker 2: for the last three years, has plenty of NFL experience,
Speaker 2: including being the Bengals linebackers coach when they went to
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl in the twenty twenty one season. As
Speaker 2: you have studied college tape, Notre Dame players, teams that
Speaker 2: have played against Notre Dame, anything stand out to you
Speaker 2: about those great defenses he had at Notre Dame.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny you just mentioned Al Golden because
Speaker 3: something just popped into my head about a de tackle
Speaker 3: who's going to be coming off an injury who played
Speaker 3: at Notre Dame. But I loved his tape, and that's
Speaker 3: Riley Mills, and obviously Al Golden knows him really well.
Speaker 3: I really like that kid's tape. He's probably six six,
Speaker 3: two ninety. He's got pass rush traits. I mean he's not,
Speaker 3: you know, going to be the best interior pass rusher
Speaker 3: we've seen in the league, but he is big, he's long,
Speaker 3: he's got pass rush trades.
Speaker 4: I forget what his injury is, so I don't know
Speaker 4: if he's going.
Speaker 3: To be ready to play, you know, early, but it's
Speaker 3: probably going to impact his draft status.
Speaker 4: My guess is you could get.
Speaker 3: Him in the fourth or fifth round, sixth round maybe,
Speaker 3: whereas he probably in my mind, would have been a
Speaker 3: top ninety.
Speaker 4: Player for sure.
Speaker 3: So just when you mentioned Golden, he knows him really
Speaker 3: really well, you know.
Speaker 4: And the other.
Speaker 3: Question is, you know, who's gonna line who's gonna line
Speaker 3: up a safety.
Speaker 1: For So Jordan Battle is a lock. This will be
Speaker 1: his third NFL.
Speaker 4: Season him as a starting safety.
Speaker 2: Yes, really came on last year toward the end of
Speaker 2: the year after a good rookie.
Speaker 3: Year safety though, Yeah, I mean, because the other thing is,
Speaker 3: you got the Xavier Watts kid, who you know, Golden
Speaker 3: knows really well, who is a true multi dimensional player,
Speaker 3: and he's worthy of a top sixty pick in the draft.
Speaker 3: And you know, so obviously I'm not saying they're going
Speaker 3: to do that, you know, but Al Golden knows him well,
Speaker 3: and that's the kind of you know, look, I don't
Speaker 3: know what.
Speaker 4: Else gonna do. You know.
Speaker 3: Obviously, college and the NFL are totally different animals, and
Speaker 3: Al's been in the NFL, so he kind of knows that.
Speaker 3: But I mean, you're seeing a lot more split safety looks.
Speaker 3: You're seeing safeties that have to be far more multi dimensional.
Speaker 3: It's hard to live in this world now where a
Speaker 3: safety can only let's say, play in the box, which
Speaker 3: is the strength of Jordan Battle.
Speaker 4: So you know, I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 4: they're going to do at the position.
Speaker 3: I don't know how Al's going to see it, but
Speaker 3: you know, Xavier Watts is a really intriguing player as well.
Speaker 1: Gino Stone is the other safety at least right.
Speaker 3: Now post safety. See see right now. This is just
Speaker 3: my sense from tape study. You know, again, this coaching
Speaker 3: staff will do their work and they're with those guys
Speaker 3: every day, but my sense of their safety position now
Speaker 3: is they've got a post safety in a box safety.
Speaker 4: And they're not really that interchangeable.
Speaker 3: And I think in today's NFL, I don't know if
Speaker 3: you can live in that world.
Speaker 2: Every week, I peppered Xavier Watts with a bunch of
Speaker 2: questions about possibly being reunited with Al Golden in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: He would be a natural the Bengals second round pick
Speaker 2: forty nine. I don't know if he'll be there, but
Speaker 2: Xavier Watts is well aware of the fact that a
Speaker 2: lot of people have made that connection that it would
Speaker 2: be a natural.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And like I said, I mean I had a conversation
Speaker 3: you know, at the combine here this year with a
Speaker 3: dB coach. He actually focuses on safeties and that's one
Speaker 3: of the things you know that he talked about, is
Speaker 3: it's hard.
Speaker 4: To live in a world now where.
Speaker 3: Safeties are just in a sense one dimensional, and how
Speaker 3: they can play well. And again I'm not you know,
Speaker 3: I obviously did Jordan Battle coming out. I've seen him
Speaker 3: with Cincinnati. He's he's the kind of kid you want
Speaker 3: to play. I mean, he's smart, he's aware, he's savvy,
Speaker 3: but he just has a certain set of traits, you know.
Speaker 3: And and I'm not sure he's a back end player,
Speaker 3: and Gino Stone is a back end player, and so
Speaker 3: they're I think they're a little bit stuck in their
Speaker 3: ability to be multi dimensional on the back back in.
Speaker 4: So we'll see how they view that.
Speaker 3: And you know, if they view it seriously enough, they
Speaker 3: certainly could decide to take a safety in the second round.
Speaker 3: It's a pretty there's gonna be some interesting safeties in
Speaker 3: this draft.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Again, the kid who's probably the most fascinating is the
Speaker 3: South Carolina kid nick Him and Wari because he's six three,
Speaker 3: two twenty And I had a coach tell me that
Speaker 3: in his mind, he's exactly like Javon Holland, who's a
Speaker 3: really good player. So you know, again, it all depends,
Speaker 3: you know, We just don't know what Al's going to
Speaker 3: do at this point. You know, he's he's a value.
Speaker 3: You know what guys do. They start by evaluating their
Speaker 3: talent before they go to free agency in the draft.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure he's done all that already, but I
Speaker 3: don't know what he thinks.
Speaker 2: I'm pinballing around with Greg Cosel. I want to get
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Chase Brown. He shared the running back
Speaker 2: position for about the first half of the season until
Speaker 2: Zach Moss got hurt, and then over the final eight
Speaker 2: games that he played more than ninety combined rushing and
Speaker 2: receiving yards in every game he had double digit touchdowns.
Speaker 2: What do you think of Chase Brown and the element
Speaker 2: that he has added to Cincinnati's offense.
Speaker 3: I like Chase Brown, and I think, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 3: Every team is different and every situation is different. The
Speaker 3: way the Bengals run offense, given that they have one
Speaker 3: of the best quarterbacks in the game is and he
Speaker 3: did have many games where he had twenty plus carries,
Speaker 3: But they don't need a foundation back in the way
Speaker 3: that let's say Derek Henry's a foundation back or sae
Speaker 3: Quon Barkley is a foundation back.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: Are there games where it plays out where he's going
Speaker 3: to get twenty four carries? Yes, But the goal I imagine
Speaker 3: for their offenses not oh, we better get Chase Brown
Speaker 3: twenty four carries. But he's capable of that. I think
Speaker 3: he fits really well within their offense. I like him
Speaker 3: a lot in the context of that offense. He's a
Speaker 3: better receiver than people might have thought. So Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think he's works fine. I don't think there's an issue
Speaker 3: with running back at all.
Speaker 2: As you study quarterbacks going into the draft, has Joe
Speaker 2: Burrow become your measuring stick for processing?
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow is in many ways my measuring stick for
Speaker 3: what you have to be as a pocket quarterback. We
Speaker 3: know he can move, and obviously he moves better than
Speaker 3: anybody thought when he came out, and we know, you know,
Speaker 3: very often he's had to move because the old line
Speaker 3: hasn't been very good and he's shown tremendous ability. But
Speaker 3: would the the way the NFL game has evolved, and
Speaker 3: particularly the way defenses have evolved, it's very hard, in
Speaker 3: my view anyway, to be a pure pocket quarterback unless
Speaker 3: you can play it at a really, really high level.
Speaker 3: Pre snap and post snap and post snap. There's ten
Speaker 3: variables that go with the post snap part, and Burrow
Speaker 3: can do all that at the highest level. But it's
Speaker 3: hard to play the position like that. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think c. J. Stroud at is a guy that has
Speaker 3: shown he's capable of that. He had some ups and
Speaker 3: downs this year as he's continuing to learn how to
Speaker 3: play in the league. But it's really hard to just be,
Speaker 3: in his sense, a pocket quarterback in today's NFL unless.
Speaker 4: You are somewhat of a computer chip. And Burrow is.
Speaker 3: And I've had this conversation obviously for the last two
Speaker 3: days here at the combine regarding shudor Sanders. Obviously who
Speaker 3: the Bengals, I'm not, they don't care about that, but
Speaker 3: but you know, Burrow is the measuring stick for that
Speaker 3: kind of court. I mean, he's just and he makes
Speaker 3: it he makes it look easy. I mean, that's the
Speaker 3: thing that is amazing. And guys will tell you that
Speaker 3: that could be the highest guy. I remember talking years
Speaker 3: and years ago to Steve Young, who I've gotten to
Speaker 3: know very well over the years, and I mentioned to him,
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you just make it.
Speaker 4: Look like it's easy.
Speaker 3: He said, That's the best compliment you could ever given me,
Speaker 3: because it's so.
Speaker 4: Hard, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, and Burrow sometimes when he just drops back
Speaker 3: and throw that, it looks like he's just out in
Speaker 3: the park, like playing with kids, you know, but he's
Speaker 3: you know, there's not going to.
Speaker 4: Be twenty Joe Burrows that you know that.
Speaker 3: And and that's why I always am loathed to compare
Speaker 3: guys to you know, great great players. Sometimes you can
Speaker 3: make a stylistic comparison, you know, but a true comparison,
Speaker 3: like I've heard people say Shadorth Sanders, well he's like
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow, but he's not.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know what they mean, but he's not.
Speaker 1: They're both right handed, right exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they both play quarterback.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Burrow is is is a really fun watch
Speaker 3: for me. I mean, I've evolved tremendously in my the
Speaker 3: way I evaluate quarterbacks because the game forces you to evolve,
Speaker 3: and you like, I like to think I can do that.
Speaker 3: But when I watch Burrow play, you know, and he
Speaker 3: had some games this year, I mean it just was
Speaker 3: they were ridiculous.
Speaker 4: Obviously he had to put up you know, what do you.
Speaker 3: Have four or five games this year, or they scored
Speaker 3: more than thirty three and they lost. You know, I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, but he just it's he's a joy for
Speaker 3: me to watch.
Speaker 1: You're so right about how hard it is.
Speaker 2: I have a little more leeway when I attend University
Speaker 2: of Cincinnati practices for where I can stand as opposed
Speaker 2: to a Bengals practice, So sometimes I'll stand right behind
Speaker 2: the offensive line.
Speaker 1: And honestly, other than a screen.
Speaker 2: Pass, I don't know how they do it with all
Speaker 2: of the traffic, the rush.
Speaker 1: It's incredible what quarterbacks are able to do.
Speaker 3: I'm blown away by it. And I'm even blown away
Speaker 3: by the guys who are shorter. We've kind of accepted
Speaker 3: in the league now that you can play if you're
Speaker 3: six feet six y one, although it's harder. And you know,
Speaker 3: the thing about Burrow, you and I were talking about
Speaker 3: this yesterday. Burrow, he doesn't necessarily look like a big
Speaker 3: guy on tape, Like you don't look at barn and
Speaker 3: Goo man, he's a big guy.
Speaker 4: Some you know, Josh Allen, Hey, there's a big guy,
Speaker 4: you know. But Burrow is a big guy. You know,
Speaker 4: he's not short. He's a big guy.
Speaker 3: And but you're right, I don't know how they how
Speaker 3: they do this, and particularly how fast they do it,
Speaker 3: you know. And one of the things, and I've had
Speaker 3: this conversation as well, but this is something I've thought
Speaker 3: about on my own, just watching college and going to
Speaker 3: some you know, certain kind of events over the years.
Speaker 3: A lot of quarterbacks now, most quarterbacks, the way they're
Speaker 3: brought up, beginning when they're ten, eleven, twelve years old,
Speaker 3: everything is pure progression. They really know very little about defenses,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's just harder to play that way.
Speaker 3: I mean Kurt Warner, who I know, well, he just
Speaker 3: is blown away by the fact that how can you
Speaker 3: not know about defense and play quarterback in the NFL,
Speaker 3: you know. And I'm in that school of thought. Obviously
Speaker 3: I've never dropped back, you know, but you know, you
Speaker 3: kind of have to know that stuff.
Speaker 2: Final thing for Greg Cosell, and I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: This is always a highlight in Indianapolis for me. The
Speaker 2: Bengals won their last five games last year to finish
Speaker 2: a game over five hundred. They needed some help on
Speaker 2: the final day of the season to make the playoffs.
Speaker 2: They didn't get it, as Denver beat Kansas City had
Speaker 2: they snuck in. Were you of the mind that they
Speaker 2: were going to be a real threat in the postseason?
Speaker 3: Well, they're going to score, so yes, The question is
Speaker 3: is you know where they're going to have to win?
Speaker 4: Thirty eight thirty five? That was going to be the question.
Speaker 3: And those kinds of games are hard, as you know,
Speaker 3: they're hard to play every week.
Speaker 4: I mean we just said that, you know, you know
Speaker 4: better than I.
Speaker 3: But I think it was four or five games where
Speaker 3: they lost by scoring over thirty three. So that becomes
Speaker 3: the question is that you know, can you win in
Speaker 3: the playoffs meaningfully? Thirty eight thirty five? History says normally no.
Speaker 3: But their offense is certainly fun to watch. And I'm
Speaker 3: not sure any defensive coordinator you know will tell you
Speaker 3: that they love to play against Burrow, you know, but
Speaker 3: because he's just he's so good. So I don't know,
Speaker 3: that's a hard question to answer. But they're they're one
Speaker 3: of my most fun offenses to watch.
Speaker 2: They're fun to broadcast, I can tell you that. And
Speaker 2: this is always so much fun for me. Or really
Speaker 2: appreciate your time. Look forward to a singing again sometime soon.
Speaker 4: Thanks, Dan, appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 2: There's anybody I enjoy talking football with more than Greg Cosell.
Speaker 2: One of this year's draft prospects that came up in
Speaker 2: our conversation was Notre Dame safety Xavier Watts. The twenty
Speaker 2: three year old who spent five years with a fighting
Speaker 2: Irish won the Nagirsky Award as the best defensive player
Speaker 2: in the country two years ago and was a consensus
Speaker 2: All American this season. So how important was he to
Speaker 2: l Golden's great defenses at Notre Dame?
Speaker 5: Very very important. He was an integral part of it.
Speaker 5: And obviously there's there's a comfort level when you're a
Speaker 5: play caller and you know that someone has the same heartbeat,
Speaker 5: someone understands exactly what you're looking for. So I'm excited
Speaker 5: for him and the opportunity that he has, you know,
Speaker 5: here moving forward.
Speaker 2: Watts spoke to reporters on Thursday and was asked about
Speaker 2: his relationship with the bengals new defensive coordinator.
Speaker 6: He's a very, very caring coach. So I mean, when
Speaker 6: guys get that type of care from a coach and
Speaker 6: when they put it in that much effort, you want
Speaker 6: to go out there and play for them.
Speaker 2: Watt certainly made plays for the Fighting Irish, intercepting thirteen
Speaker 2: passes over the last two years.
Speaker 6: To win the football game, you got to get the ball.
Speaker 6: I feel like coach Golden has done a great job
Speaker 6: of instilling that as me and as a team another name.
Speaker 6: So obviously when I'm out there, I'm always trying to
Speaker 6: get the ball.
Speaker 2: But interceptions is not at the top of the list
Speaker 2: of what Coach Golden is looking for in his safeties.
Speaker 5: Be Able to command your team, I think that's really important.
Speaker 5: You've got to be audible and demonstrative. You got to
Speaker 5: defend the deep ball really well, whether that's third half, quarter,
Speaker 5: whatever that case may be. And you've got to be
Speaker 5: a great tackle, especially in the alley. So there's more
Speaker 5: than that, but that's a good start, you know, if
Speaker 5: you could start there with those three. But anytime you
Speaker 5: want to have a great defense, you have to be
Speaker 5: great up the middle. From a communications standpoint standpoint, there's
Speaker 5: so much that makes up today's offenses. You know, the
Speaker 5: pre snap motions, the empty the empty quads, the jet motions,
Speaker 5: all of those things. And if you're not demonstrative, if
Speaker 5: you're not confident, and it's our job to get that
Speaker 5: from our guys.
Speaker 2: Most of the mock drafts I've looked at have Watts
Speaker 2: going in the second round, and Pro Football Focus calls
Speaker 2: him the ideal fit for Cincinnati. I asked Xavier if
Speaker 2: he's heard the scuttle but about a possible reunion with
Speaker 2: his college coach in Cincinnati.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen some of the stuff.
Speaker 6: I try to stay away from it, but it's hard.
Speaker 6: While I'm always on my phone for the most part,
Speaker 6: and I'm getting taggs and mentioned in certain stuff. So
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know how that stuff works or
Speaker 6: what's gonna happen. By the end the day, I'm just
Speaker 6: do what I need to do and then we'll see
Speaker 6: what happens in the future.
Speaker 2: What said He did not have a formal interview scheduled
Speaker 2: with the Bengals at the Combine. But when you think
Speaker 2: about it, considering how well Al Golden already knows him,
Speaker 2: there really wasn't a need to use one of their
Speaker 2: forty five allotted interviews in Indianapolis with him. Here's a
Speaker 2: quick that The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you
Speaker 2: by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals Official HR
Speaker 2: software provider by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
Speaker 2: to elevate your home, business and community to a new level,
Speaker 2: and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
Speaker 2: Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now,
Speaker 2: time to hear from one of the prominent draft gurus
Speaker 2: I caught up with at the Combine, the NFL Networks
Speaker 2: Lance zer Line Lance. The Bengals need defensive line help.
Speaker 2: How would you describe this draft for defensive linemen?
Speaker 7: Couldn't be better? Awesome, very deep.
Speaker 8: You'll be able to find starters day one, day two,
Speaker 8: and into day three, especially if you're looking for a
Speaker 8: defensive tackle. So this is one of the better I mean,
Speaker 8: the strength of this draft is edge rusher and defensive tackle.
Speaker 7: If you guys locked down Trey.
Speaker 8: Hendrickson, which I think is going to happen, I don't.
Speaker 8: You can't let a rusher leave. So if that happens,
Speaker 8: then you want to get better inside. This is a
Speaker 8: good draft to go get it inside as well. You
Speaker 8: got a couple talents of players. You have like three
Speaker 8: or four players in the first round defensive tackle wise
Speaker 8: that you could take a look at that would be
Speaker 8: high impact players, but it really doesn't stop there. It
Speaker 8: gets deep beyond that. So this is a really good draft.
Speaker 8: If you need defensive line help. If you need quarterback help,
Speaker 8: not a good draft. You need defensive line help, you're
Speaker 8: gonna be in a good shake.
Speaker 2: The Bengals do not need quarterback help, as you know.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about some of those defensive linemen. I
Speaker 2: assume Mason Graham will be long gone, but some of
Speaker 2: the other defensive tackles that we're hearing about and reading
Speaker 2: about include Walter Nolan from all Miss Tyleek Williams from
Speaker 2: Ohio State, Kenneth Grant from Michigan, Dereck Harmon from Oregon.
Speaker 2: Of those guys, who do you think is most likely
Speaker 2: to still be there at seventeen and who do you like?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 8: I think what's gonna happen with Kenneth Grant is he's
Speaker 8: gonna have a big he's gonna test well, and you're
Speaker 8: gonna have a guy who's three hundred and forty pounds
Speaker 8: run about a four to eight five four nine two
Speaker 8: forty and he's gonna look good in drills, going to
Speaker 8: do all the testing well. So he's going to shoot up,
Speaker 8: and I think he probably isn't going to be there.
Speaker 7: Derek Harmon. Did you mention Derek Carmon. Yeah, I think
Speaker 7: Derek Carmon will be there now.
Speaker 8: He's more of just you know, he's more of a
Speaker 8: run stuffing guy who can help your rush as a
Speaker 8: swarm unit.
Speaker 7: He's not going to do a lot individually, but he
Speaker 7: should be there.
Speaker 8: Walter Nolan, if he's there, I mean, you got to
Speaker 8: vet why he's there, to find out.
Speaker 7: If there's a reason.
Speaker 8: You know, you will have done your work by then,
Speaker 8: so you're either comfortable with him or you're not. But
Speaker 8: if he's still there, I mean, to me, he's the
Speaker 8: most explosive defensive tackle on this draft. I don't think
Speaker 8: he'll be the first one. I think it will be
Speaker 8: Mason Graham.
Speaker 7: As you mentioned.
Speaker 8: If Walter Nolan's there, i'd run it up. Tyler Williams.
Speaker 8: I don't know that I draft him at first, but
Speaker 8: I like him a lot, so that would be one.
Speaker 8: If you were able to trade out of the first
Speaker 8: round or move up from your second round pick, which
Speaker 8: like forty nine I believe, and move up into the
Speaker 8: earlier stages of the second round, then you can take
Speaker 8: a look at Tyler Williams.
Speaker 1: But all I like all.
Speaker 8: Those guys for the Bengals, I think those are I
Speaker 8: think you're on it in terms of the players who
Speaker 8: they should be looking at in those two spots, William
Speaker 8: or in that spot at one, although like I said,
Speaker 8: I think William's the guy who's probably more of a
Speaker 8: second round player, even though I like.
Speaker 7: Him a lot.
Speaker 2: Lanzerline from NFL Network is our guest. Let's move to
Speaker 2: some of the edge guys. I assume that Jalen Walker
Speaker 2: won't be there. Here are some of the guys that
Speaker 2: have been projected to possibly be available at number seventeen.
Speaker 2: Mike Green from Marshall, Chamar Stewart from Texas A and
Speaker 2: m James Pierce from Tennessee, the Boston College kid whose
Speaker 2: last name I'm not going to try to pronounce. Of
Speaker 2: those guys, do you think that there's a good chance
Speaker 2: that they'll be there at seventeen?
Speaker 1: And what do you think?
Speaker 7: I think it's seventeen.
Speaker 8: Izeraku from Boston College will be there. It might be
Speaker 8: a little early for him, but once again, you always
Speaker 8: have to remember, you know, there's always a distinct possibility
Speaker 8: of trading back, adding a third round pick, adding a
Speaker 8: fourth round.
Speaker 7: Pick, to move back two spots, three spots, or move back.
Speaker 8: To me, the strength of this draft is really going
Speaker 8: to be more, you know, like twenty to forty five
Speaker 8: forty six, So moving back aggressively seven or eight spots,
Speaker 8: that allows you to still.
Speaker 7: Target an edge that you like, if that's what you
Speaker 7: want to do.
Speaker 8: At the same time, you know, well, what you want
Speaker 8: to do is you want to be in play for
Speaker 8: multiple positions. So if you move back into the twenty
Speaker 8: three through twenty six range, you got maybe one of
Speaker 8: those defensive tackles, maybe two of them still on the board,
Speaker 8: You've got three edge rushers. So to me, for the
Speaker 8: where the Bengals are, that might be a great position
Speaker 8: to move back pick up an extra third round pick.
Speaker 8: Is if you aggressively move back seven eight spots, the
Speaker 8: higher your compensation is third round pick, potentially second round pick,
Speaker 8: depending on you know, how far you move back.
Speaker 7: So I think that who are the other who are
Speaker 7: the edge rushers.
Speaker 2: That you mentioned, James Pierce, Yeah, Schamar, Stuart, Mike Green.
Speaker 7: So Stuart should be right around there. He's going to
Speaker 7: test great.
Speaker 8: Look great, Production's not great, but I think Mike Green
Speaker 8: has gone by then Stuart could be on the board.
Speaker 8: He's probably the best looking player in this draft. And
Speaker 8: from a you know, I remember when Carlos Dunlap was
Speaker 8: a was a Bengal. That's the kind of body type,
Speaker 8: you know, an impressive, long body type, but maybe even
Speaker 8: more muscular and imposing with more and more explosive as
Speaker 8: an athlete. But Dunlap is he's in that same kind
Speaker 8: of category. Pierce is one who I think will fall
Speaker 8: back a little bit. There's some there's some character stuff
Speaker 8: that that that teams have to be okay with from
Speaker 8: what I've been told from team sources. So I think
Speaker 8: that nineteen might be a little early for him, not
Speaker 8: necessarily talent wise, but where the league is going to
Speaker 8: value him. But you move back and maybe you're a
Speaker 8: little more comfortable.
Speaker 7: But then again, you know, there are some teams who say,
Speaker 7: if I'm wanting to take a guy at thirty, I
Speaker 7: got to be willing to take a guy at nineteen.
Speaker 7: There's no difference.
Speaker 1: Lanzerline is our guest.
Speaker 2: In your first mock draft, you had the Bengals taking
Speaker 2: a wide receiver Tetoroal McMillan from Arizona, the number one
Speaker 2: wide receiver on many people's board. I assume with that pick,
Speaker 2: you're thinking they're not to be able to get a
Speaker 2: deal done with t Higgins.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I think they'll franchise make I think
Speaker 8: they could franchise him again. But he's off of one
Speaker 8: franchise tag, right, so you can go to here's the thing.
Speaker 7: It's not a great wide receiver draft.
Speaker 8: So if I'm the Bengals, I'm getting a deal done
Speaker 8: with Hendrickson. It's just me the new general manager. Sorry, Toby,
Speaker 8: I'm gonna do your job for you a little bit here.
Speaker 8: I don't have to take the bullets you have to take,
Speaker 8: so it's easier. But I'm probably I'm keeping a rusher.
Speaker 8: And then what I'm doing is I'm gonna say, look,
Speaker 8: we're gonna do it one more time. T We're gonna
Speaker 8: franchise you again. It's gonna be good money. Franchise tag
Speaker 8: a wide receiver's good money. Now you have to hope
Speaker 8: he still comes into camp because the new thing is
Speaker 8: gonna be I'm gonna sit out. I'm gonna force you
Speaker 8: to trade me. If that happens. You know, you cross
Speaker 8: that bridge when you when you get there. You can
Speaker 8: also maybe make a decision you franchise tag him and
Speaker 8: then you can rescind it later on, depending on how
Speaker 8: your draft works out.
Speaker 7: So you know, if you need a wide receiver. I
Speaker 7: like Luther Burden. I think that uh McMillan will.
Speaker 8: I think he's gonna test pretty well, so he'll probably
Speaker 8: be gone by the time the pick is made. Now,
Speaker 8: Matthew Golden is somebody who's gonna run well here and
Speaker 8: Tess Well. I could see Matthew Golden as a potential Bengal,
Speaker 8: but I looked at wide receivers for you guys in
Speaker 8: the second round.
Speaker 7: And Jack Besh.
Speaker 8: Who's about two hundred and twenty pounds, hands like flypaper
Speaker 8: like flypaper like really sticky hands, good route runner, tough,
Speaker 8: tough kid, had a great Senior Bowl. You know, he's
Speaker 8: one of those possession receivers you got the number one
Speaker 8: on the other side. What you're looking for as a
Speaker 8: complimentary too. And I think somebody who can win possession catches,
Speaker 8: can make tough catches, contested catches, has great hands. You know,
Speaker 8: that's something you could look for in the second round.
Speaker 8: So he's one of those guys to me that you
Speaker 8: could potentially be looking at. I had another target for
Speaker 8: you in the second round, wide receiver.
Speaker 7: Let me give you another one for your for your
Speaker 7: listening audience.
Speaker 8: Here, Oh Trey Harris, Well, Tray's going to be more along.
Speaker 8: I don't think he'd be the great fit. That's more
Speaker 8: Jamar's role. So I would say the next guy might
Speaker 8: be well, Emeka Igbuka would be a good one. And
Speaker 8: Jaden Higgins there he is from Iowa State. Ayden Higgins
Speaker 8: to me, fits the t Higgins role really well. He's longer,
Speaker 8: if that's what you cover it as a longer receiver
Speaker 8: with good ball skills. Jayden Higgins from Iowa State would
Speaker 8: be a player at forty nine who should be in
Speaker 8: that general vicinity. He should be available sometime between forty
Speaker 8: and fifty.
Speaker 2: No relation to t Higgins, but he looks a lot
Speaker 2: like I'm a tall, big target, big reach, big wingspan
Speaker 2: kind of guy.
Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know, sometimes in my eleven years of
Speaker 7: doing this.
Speaker 8: With NFL, and I did it before this, what you
Speaker 8: find is that head coaches and general managers, whether it's
Speaker 8: on the collegiate level, Nick Saban used to have the
Speaker 8: same type of players come in year after year.
Speaker 7: So my player comps a lot of times.
Speaker 8: Would be former Alabama, you know, Crimson Tide players because
Speaker 8: they were so similar body type wise and play play wise. Well,
Speaker 8: when you have Zach and Tobin and offensive staff that
Speaker 8: I could see them saying, look, our second wide receiver, we.
Speaker 7: Really liked what t did for we want to find
Speaker 7: a guy like him. So then you start developing types.
Speaker 8: If you didn't already have a type that you wanted
Speaker 8: from a trade standpoint, if you had somebody you're just
Speaker 8: coming off of that was really good, it makes sense
Speaker 8: that subconsciously you want to find that kind of guy again.
Speaker 8: So I think it would make sense that that's one
Speaker 8: of the reasons I went and searched out players that
Speaker 8: were bigger, that could win above the rim, that had
Speaker 8: strong hands, you know, because I think that the Bengals
Speaker 8: coming off of that guy, want to find that guy
Speaker 8: again because it's it's worked pretty well for him so far.
Speaker 2: Yes, it has Lancer Line from NFL Network is our guest.
Speaker 2: The Bengals need a guard. I would be surprised that
Speaker 2: they went for one in the first round. Do you
Speaker 2: have a Day two or even Day three guard that
Speaker 2: would make sense for Cincinnati.
Speaker 7: I always have Day two and Day three picks.
Speaker 8: I just I got my little cheat sheet here, so
Speaker 8: I can I can find you a Bengal. Let's see
Speaker 8: for what the Bengals like to do. I would say, well,
Speaker 8: there's a player that I like a lot in the
Speaker 8: fourth round named Josh Gray Oregon State. I think he's
Speaker 8: about a fourth round pick. He was at the Shrine Game.
Speaker 8: He's a former tackle turn guard from Oregon State. He's
Speaker 8: got some outside zone experience at Oregon State when they
Speaker 8: ran that. But what a lot of teams like to do,
Speaker 8: and when I look at the Bengals, I want to
Speaker 8: find guys that can really protect.
Speaker 7: I mean, that's obviously got to be the thing now.
Speaker 8: So if I can find a tackle, a guy who
Speaker 8: played tackle who now plays guard and he's got experience
Speaker 8: with his hands and his pass sets, you know, that's
Speaker 8: what I'm covering.
Speaker 7: So I'm looking for that.
Speaker 8: Charles Grant from William and Mary is going to be
Speaker 8: a red hot name out here. Another tackle who can
Speaker 8: play guard. I think he's more of a third round player.
Speaker 8: He's going to test really, really well. He might might
Speaker 8: even go before the Bengals draft.
Speaker 7: In the third round. But that's another name you want
Speaker 7: to see.
Speaker 8: And then i'd say White milem very tough guy, physical,
Speaker 8: aggressive once again, former tackle. He's got shorter arms, so
Speaker 8: he's going to have to move inside, but he has
Speaker 8: the experience of playing out there at tackle.
Speaker 7: He is going to have the core strength that you want.
Speaker 8: And he's nasty, and I think getting nastiness on the
Speaker 8: front for the Bengals, but not sacrificing pass pro is
Speaker 8: going to have to become a big priority.
Speaker 1: Mike Kasicki is a free agent.
Speaker 2: Eric All, the tight end they drafted last year out
Speaker 2: of Iowa, has a significant enough knee injury that he's
Speaker 2: not expected to come back this year.
Speaker 1: So same question.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Bengals would take one in the
Speaker 2: first round. What about day two or day three for
Speaker 2: tight ends.
Speaker 7: It's a great year for tight ends. It's a very
Speaker 7: deep year.
Speaker 8: For tight ends, and I think you know day two
Speaker 8: I would rather personally wait. Well, so Elijah Arroyo would
Speaker 8: fit from a pass catching standpoint, if you value the
Speaker 8: pass catching over the blocking, if you want kind.
Speaker 7: Of a combination guy.
Speaker 8: I think Gunner Helm from University of Texas, he's going
Speaker 8: to be more of a third early fourth type tight end.
Speaker 8: Harold Fannin is a pure He led the league, he
Speaker 8: led the nation, and like catches and receiving yards.
Speaker 7: He was just he was a monster. They targeted him
Speaker 7: left and right.
Speaker 8: Great pass catching tight end once again, he's more of
Speaker 8: a slot though he's not going to do a whole
Speaker 8: lot of blocking, so if you want both of those things.
Speaker 8: A guy that I like a lot is Thomas Faedone
Speaker 8: from I don't know if it's Fidona for Dona and
Speaker 8: to check, but from Nebraska.
Speaker 7: I really was impressed with him. He's a longer tight end,
Speaker 7: but he is where.
Speaker 8: GATSICKI is just going to try to win above the rim.
Speaker 8: Use that indoor volleyball experience to help you as a
Speaker 8: pass catcher. This is a player who's got some nastiness
Speaker 8: and toughness to him.
Speaker 7: As a blocker.
Speaker 8: He is I think an underappreciated route runner and pass catcher.
Speaker 8: So to me, he's a great value pick in the
Speaker 8: fourth round for this tight end class.
Speaker 1: Duke Tobyn spoke to reporters on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: He called the Bengals a championship caliber team.
Speaker 8: Do you agree, Well, it doesn't take much to switch
Speaker 8: you from good to championship and the first thing he
Speaker 8: got to do is get back, you know, is get
Speaker 8: in the playoffs and go deep into playoffs. But you're
Speaker 8: not that far removed from a Super Bowl. I think
Speaker 8: if the pass protection is better, I think, you know,
Speaker 8: it would have helped if Jamar had been in camp
Speaker 8: and you got off to a little faster start, obviously,
Speaker 8: but I think having a pass rusher, you can't You're
Speaker 8: not a championship caliber team.
Speaker 7: If you lose Trey Henderson, You're just not. You have
Speaker 7: to rush the pass.
Speaker 8: You've got a great pass covering linebacker, which is a
Speaker 8: big difference maker in today's NFL. I think if you
Speaker 8: tighten up the secondary just a little bit, you keep
Speaker 8: the pass rusher you've got, and then you bolster the
Speaker 8: offensive line and you fill in some of the spots
Speaker 8: that you and I have talked about. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 8: see why not. I mean, the Bengals were plus plus minus.
Speaker 8: You know, they had three games that went against them
Speaker 8: that could have gone in their favor. We'll do the
Speaker 8: math on that. We're looking at it. You know, no
Speaker 8: one wanted to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Nobody
Speaker 8: wanted to see a red hot Bengals team, so you're
Speaker 8: not that far off.
Speaker 1: Lance.
Speaker 2: Always appreciate your time. Your expertise is outstanding. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Thanks.
Speaker 2: Lance's dad, Larry, was the offensive line coach at the
Speaker 2: University of Cincinnati for four years under Rick Mentor, during
Speaker 2: a stretch where the coaching staff included Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh,
Speaker 2: and Rex Ryan, among others. That's going to do it
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