WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: Goin' Back To Indiana 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:04.640 Hi again everybody. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.360 I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:13.960 The I'm going back to Indiana. Addition, as we head 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.040 to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Coming up, you'll 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.760 hear from Greg Cosel from NFL Films, Notre Dame Safety, 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:27.840 Xavier Watts, a possible Bengals target, and NFL Network draft 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.760 Guru Lance zero Line. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.479 to you by Paycore, proud to be the Bengals official 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:39.199 HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.600 designed to elevate your home, business and community to a 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.680 new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.720 the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:50.360 Of the Bengals. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.000 Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.000 latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.760 or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:08.160 the greatest thing since unclaimed funds. My wife recently encouraged 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.319 me to see if I have any unclaimed funds in 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.080 the various places where we've lived. It doesn't cost anything. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.480 Just search for unclaimed funds, and the name of a 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.160 state where you've lived or worked. You'll fill out some 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.600 information on a website and we'll find out pretty quickly 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.360 if there are any unclaimed funds under your name. If 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.120 there are, you'll have to fill out some paperwork in 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.280 order to receive the money. Sure enough, I don't know 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.560 whether it was because of a change of address or 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.200 an oversight by a former employer, but Peg and I 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.840 both have some cold, hard cash coming our way. It's 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.280 not a huge amount, but hey, it's found money, so 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.880 give it a shot. Hopefully your luck will be even 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:59.080 better than ours. Now, let's get to my first guest. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.360 It's NFL Combine Week in Indianapolis, giving me the opportunity 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.400 to talk to some of my favorite NFL analysts and 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.320 draft gurus, as well as some of the players that 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:10.960 the Bengals might be. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.480 Targeting in this year's draft. 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:17.400 First, a favorite guest on this podcast who is uniquely 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.760 capable of discussing the state of the Bengals as well 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.160 as some of the draft prospects who could eventually wind 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.000 up in Orange and black. One of my favorite things 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.359 about coming to the Combine every year is the opportunity 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.079 to visit with a great Greg co cell. Duke Tobin 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.600 held a news conference on Tuesday where he referred to 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:41.120 the Bengals as quote, a championship caliber team, despite the 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:42.919 fact that the Bengals have missed the playoffs the last 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:44.919 couple of years. Do you agree with Duke Tobin? 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.160 Well, I think the reason you say that is because 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.040 they have one of the three or four best quarterbacks 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.639 in the league, and they've obviously got a wide receiving 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.079 corps that is high level. They've got Jamar Chase, who's, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.040 depending on one's point of view, we are the first 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.800 or second best receiver in football. So I think that 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.040 that's kind of where it starts. And Burrow is so 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.080 so good. The guy plays the position like a computer 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.680 chip that you know, you just you watch him and 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.399 you just feel like, God, this team's a really good team. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:15.959 But you know, as you know, Dan, I think there's 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.440 a lot of questions as we sit here at the combine, 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.519 and it's very early in the process, so we don't 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.519 know the answers to these questions, but there are legitimate 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:24.720 questions that. 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.119 In my view, don't put them in the category. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.760 As we sit here, you know, late in February, as 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:33.200 they're a championship team. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.000 I think there's too many questions right now. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.800 They've missed the playoffs because their defense wasn't good enough. 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.080 They were one of the top scoring teams in the league. 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.120 You assume that will continue to be the case as 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.400 long as Joe Burrow is in Cincinnati and healthy. What 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.800 stood out to you about their deficiencies on defense when 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:51.240 you watch the Bengals last year. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.280 I think there's a number of them. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.880 I mean I think that, you know, I love Trey Hendrickson, 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.480 and I know he's under contract for another year. You know, 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.440 he's grossly underpaid. We'll see how all that plays out. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.200 But he's a really good pass rusher. He lived the 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.600 league in sacks, did he not. Yeah, he's really good, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.480 you know. I think that On the other side, that's 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.719 an open question. And with what they're probably going to 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.719 line up with at de tackle right now, younger players 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.800 who are not true pass rushers, so they need another 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.120 pass rusher, and I think that's important right now. The 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.240 other thing that I think two other things I thought 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:31.960 really hurt. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:32.520 Them last year. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.440 In previous years, I thought that Wilson and Pratt were 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.640 really good duo at linebacker. We know Wilson got hurt, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.839 but I don't think he played to the same level 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.760 before the injury. And I don't think Pratt played to 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.560 the same level last year at all. And I had 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.919 always been a Pratt guy based on tape, but it 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.359 just wasn't there. And then the second part of that 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.280 equation was the secondary. The secondary was problematic. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.000 We know that, we don't have to guess that because they. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.520 Ben Taylor Bread two or three times, So that told 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.440 you right there. So they ended up playing the rookie 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.080 Newton from TCU, who, by the way, I really liked 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.000 his college tape and I thought he played well down 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.760 the stretch when he played. But clearly the secondary was 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.120 a little bit of a revolving door and it was 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.760 an issue. And unfortunately Hill got hurt. He made the 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.520 transition to corner, and I loved him as a potential 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.200 corner coming out of Michigan. You and I talked last 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.200 year that at safety, maybe he didn't see the game 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.560 as quickly as he had to. But he has major 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.640 corner traits and he played really well until he got hurt. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.080 So that's a question. Now does he stay on the outside. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.839 He has slot experience from his college days at Michigan. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.280 With Mike Hilton being a free agent, do they move 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.880 him in the slot and try to figure out, you know, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.359 amongst two or three other guys, the Newtons, the tailor, Bread's, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.160 the DJ Turner, who is the second round pick? Did 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.520 they try to figure that out? You know, these are 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.080 questions as we sit here in late February. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:02.640 They have to figure out too. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.240 That's what the OTAs and the mini camps and training 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.000 camps are for. And again with the draft coming up 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.159 in free agency, they'll probably some other players in the mix. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:14.400 We're visiting with Greg Cosell. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:19.279 You put together awesome draft scouting reports on these guys. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.719 I know you've been grinding the tape. From the draft 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.760 gurus that I've talked to here in Indianapolis, there seems 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.880 to be a consensus that it's a good year to 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.360 draft a defensive lineman. The Bengals have a need. Okay, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.560 so let's start there. Defensive tackle is an area where 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:35.919 the Bengals can find somebody. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.040 And it's funny you say that because look, they drafted 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.599 Chris Jenkins, they drafted McKinley Jackson, two players who I 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.800 like on tape, but I wouldn't call either one a 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.560 pass rusher in a strict sense. Now again, you don't 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.440 need two dtackles who were great pass rushers. But I 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.120 think as we saw and again, very often teams look 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.320 at Super Bowl type teams or teams that get there 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.800 and think that, hey, you know, maybe this is a 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.080 month look at what. 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:01.680 The Eagles did. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.680 I mean, we know Jalen Carter is, he's a great player, 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.400 but Milton Williams opposite Jalen Carter, he got a lot of. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.040 One on ones and he won them. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:11.920 See it's easy to say, oh, well, you know Jalen 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.680 Carter's on the other side, but you still got to 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.040 win the one on ones. And Milton Williams, who, by 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.200 the way, is a free agent, and you know again 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.320 he could get twenty one to twenty two million dollars 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.240 a year. He could be in high demand. I'm not 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.559 saying the Bengals are going to look to him. Who knows, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.880 but he can rush the quarterback. But this is a 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.440 really good detackle draft. They come in all shapes and sizes, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.680 as they often do, so I personally think they have 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.680 to think in terms of a pass rusher, not a 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.560 run defender. I think Both Jenkins and McKinley Jackson are 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.160 solid interior run defenders and can be good at that, 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.000 But I think that they need to find a guy 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.200 that they believe can become a sub front pass rusher 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:53.600 on the inside. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.920 From the guys you've studied who fits that description Among 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.480 the defensive tackles. 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.000 Well, depending on where you want to draft. My favorite detail, 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.680 and I've done a good number of them. I love 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.720 the Walter Nolan kid from All miss You know the 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.679 way I think about you and how I do this. Obviously, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.520 you have to look at a player's traits and attributes 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.800 when you evaluate a college player, But then I think 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:14.920 about the NFL because that's ultimately. 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:15.120 What we're doing. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.680 Then we're trying to project and transition guys to play 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.080 at the next level, not how they play on Saturday, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.320 how they play on Sunday. And I really can't find 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.559 any higher level D tackles in the NFL that don't 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:33.000 have a strong power element to their game. And Mason 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.960 Graham is a fun, fun watch. Okay, he's a lot 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.199 of fun, but he doesn't have a big power element 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.839 to his game. So again, that doesn't mean in three 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.160 years he won't, you know, you never know that stuff. 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:47.560 And I hear he's a great kid, and you know, 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.680 but Nolan right now, I mean he has shades of 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.719 Jalen Carter in him when you watch his tape in 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.960 the SEC he moves people. Then there's a kid, and 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.599 again it depends where you want to draft. There's a 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.680 kid from South Carolina who I like, TJ. Sanders. He's 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.920 a little more athletic, which is why you wouldn't think 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.360 of him as a first round type player, but he 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.880 can rush the quarterback and you know. So there's guys 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.520 like that, and I know I'm missing names because I've 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.599 seen so many, and I feel like, you know, my 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.080 head's in a swirl here because that's all I've been doing, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.439 is grinding through watching players. But they come in all 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.040 shapes and sizes in this draft, and you can I 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.440 had someone I respect greatly who's done this for years 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.160 and years tell me that he wouldn't be surprised if 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.640 twenty defensive tackles won in the first three rounds. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.840 So it's a big d tackle draft. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:38.240 The Bengals have the seventeenth pick. My suspicion is if 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.600 they had a defensive tackle that they felt was worthy 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.640 of that selection, that would probably be their inclination. But 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.720 they need pass rushers too. As you mentioned, how is 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:49.840 that in this draft? 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.240 It's pretty good and I have a feeling, Look, this 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.880 is an odd draft because it's not a quarterback draft 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:55.439 and it's not a. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:56.400 Wide receiver draft. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.240 So what I've spoken to people who tell me in 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.960 a normal year there's fifteen to eighteen players with first 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:03.679 round grades. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.160 This year I'm hearing there's ten. But the point is 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:06.880 you have to draft. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.920 You know, there's thirty two teams that have to draft 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.680 in the first round, so you have to draft. So 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.920 you know, there are players like Nick Gourton from A 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.959 and M, who actually led the Big Ten in sacks 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.240 last year at Purdue and then transfer to A and M. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.400 He's an interesting player. He's like six four, two eighty. 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.040 I mean, my guess is he's in that range of 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.120 seventeen and he shows flashes where he could be a 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.240 quality edge pass rusher. Then there's a lot of guys 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.480 who are like his teammate at A and M is 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.839 a kid named Shamir Stewart. You've probably heard of that name. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.920 He's a freak, but he doesn't know how to rush 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.640 the quarterback. But he's six five, two eighty one, and 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.720 when you put on his tape and watch him run 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.800 people down, you think you're watching his safety. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:52.600 And his arms are like thirty. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.720 Five and a half, and you know that means something 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.920 in the scouting business. So I mean, is he going 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.120 to be there at seventeen. I certainly don't know that. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.280 No one knows that, but there are there are going 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.840 to be players to take at seventeen, either a d 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.160 tackle or at d end. It just depends on who 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.080 you like and what flavor you like. 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.680 It's not a wide receiver draft, as you mentioned. Is 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:14.840 it a tight end draft? 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:16.079 Yes. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:23.360 I think there's four that are really to me high, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.480 high level intriguing, and then there's fifteen that are going 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.120 to play in the league for sure. And I think 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.920 the four are Loveland from Michigan, who's not going to 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:33.800 work out here. In fact, I saw him speaking. He's 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.640 his left arms and his slaying. He's almost like a 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:44.720 wide receiver type. There's Tyler Warren, who I did last 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.400 summer as well, and I love that kid. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.400 I think he's the best all around tight en. He's 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.880 not going to be there at seventeen, not this draft. 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:57.800 And then you have Mason Taylor from LSU, who's Jason 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.480 Taylor's son, really intriguing player and the kid who to 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.840 me is totally ascending, and it would it wouldn't surprise 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.959 me if in two, three, four years we're talking about 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:11.679 him among the best in the league. As the kid 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:17.240 from Miami Arroyo, Elijah Royo. That kid is a freakish athlete. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.600 And he's not a terrible blocker, but he's a freakish athlete. 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.040 And I saw him speaking today. He looks the part too. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.200 I mean you just see the body type, you know. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.600 So then there's like I said, there's probably. 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.400 Fifteen guys they're going to play in the league. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.120 I don't know if they're quote unquote number one tight ends, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:38.559 but they're gonna play in the league. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.000 The Bengals drafted Eric All last year out of Iowa. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:47.800 He was tremendous. Unfortunately he re injured his knee. It's 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.000 significant enough that he's going to miss this entire season. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.480 But did you see enough of him from his time 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.320 in Cincinnati to thank boy, if this guy could stay healthy, 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:58.160 they've got something. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.880 Yeah, he was the Michigan, Iowa kid who's kind of 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.960 fell under the radar a bit because you know, he 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.439 didn't catch a ton in Michigan, didn't catch a ton 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.480 at Iowa because they have multiple tight ends who are 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.839 obviously very good, and they don't have a great passing game, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.839 as you know at Iowa, you know, you being in 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:17.560 Big ten country. So I'm really I thought all it 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.280 was a really all choose me, not all at all. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.560 Was an intriguing guy. And it's a shame. I didn't 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.319 know until you just told me that he's going to 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.280 miss the season. So now you wonder, you know, does 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.440 he ever really play at that at a level at 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.960 which he could play. So, yeah, they're gonna need a 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.480 tight end. So and like I said, you can get 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.360 a tight end in this draft. Now it comes down 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.520 to do you want one early because you think that 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.960 that guy's going to be that guy that kind of 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.120 tight end which they really haven't had in recent years, 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.679 or you know, do you take one who's just a 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.880 really solid player but not necessarily one of those guys 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.040 that becomes an organizational decision. 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.679 We're visiting with Greg Cosell. I want to circle back 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.400 to Trey Hendrickson. As you mentioned, he did lead the 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.680 NFL in sacks this year with seventeen and a half, 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.880 second year in a row he's had seventeen and a half. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.880 Is he strictly one of the best pass rushers in 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.400 the NFL? Or do you consider him to be one 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.440 of the top defensive ends all around? 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.000 I mean I would lean toward the latter part there. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.880 I mean, is he the best run defender we've seen? No, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.360 but I don't think that's a weakness in his game. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.480 But he's a really good pass you know. And it's 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.840 funny I spoke about power with d tackles, it's true 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.640 with d ns as well. I'm fortunate that I've been 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.040 able to go to the O Line Masterminds event, which 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.520 is in Frisco, Texas, every year in July, and Duke 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.640 Mannywether does a great job and he brings in prison 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.680 O Lineman brings in Hall of Fame O Lineman. And 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.760 I had an unbelievably great conversation two years ago with 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.880 Andrew Whitworth, who you obviously know well, and you know, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.440 he said something that just totally resonated because you know, 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.000 I don't fancy myself an offensive line guru, you know, certainly, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:07.160 Andrew Whitworth. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.920 Knows a little more about playing offensive line than I do. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.000 And he said to me, it's all about power. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.920 He said, all these guys that want to dance and 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.440 try to run around me, I can deal with that 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.800 all day long, because at some point they got to 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:20.560 get through me. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.880 He says, I'm there. If they want to dance, more 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:24.760 power to him. 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.240 And I think what is so impressive about Hendrickson bringing 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.720 it back to him is he can win by just 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.480 going right through the chest to people. And at the 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.920 end of the day, if you don't have a power 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.080 element as a pass rusher in this league, it's really hard. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:41.440 To be concident. 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.240 I mean, you're dealing with the guy that's, you know, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.440 had seventeen plus sacks two years in a row. Even 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.000 before that, he put up good sack numbers. I mean, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.960 he's got a strong power element to his game. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.480 And one thing he does not do is dance. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.360 No, he does not do that. He does not do that. 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.400 The Bengals new defensive coordinator, he's been at Notre Dame 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.080 for the last three years, has plenty of NFL experience, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.760 including being the Bengals linebackers coach when they went to 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.480 the Super Bowl in the twenty twenty one season. As 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.440 you have studied college tape, Notre Dame players, teams that 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.080 have played against Notre Dame, anything stand out to you 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.240 about those great defenses he had at Notre Dame. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.600 You know, it's funny you just mentioned Al Golden because 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.720 something just popped into my head about a de tackle 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.480 who's going to be coming off an injury who played 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.800 at Notre Dame. But I loved his tape, and that's 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.360 Riley Mills, and obviously Al Golden knows him really well. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.080 I really like that kid's tape. He's probably six six, 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.840 two ninety. He's got pass rush traits. I mean he's not, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.120 you know, going to be the best interior pass rusher 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.680 we've seen in the league, but he is big, he's long, 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.200 he's got pass rush trades. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.160 I forget what his injury is, so I don't know 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:53.800 if he's going. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.720 To be ready to play, you know, early, but it's 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.880 probably going to impact his draft status. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:01.640 My guess is you could get. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.800 Him in the fourth or fifth round, sixth round maybe, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.159 whereas he probably in my mind, would have been a 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:07.200 top ninety. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:07.720 Player for sure. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.320 So just when you mentioned Golden, he knows him really 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.560 really well, you know. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:14.200 And the other. 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.640 Question is, you know, who's gonna line who's gonna line 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:18.800 up a safety. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.879 For So Jordan Battle is a lock. This will be 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:23.919 his third NFL. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.520 Season him as a starting safety. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.800 Yes, really came on last year toward the end of 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.080 the year after a good rookie. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:34.399 Year safety though, Yeah, I mean, because the other thing is, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.360 you got the Xavier Watts kid, who you know, Golden 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.360 knows really well, who is a true multi dimensional player, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.800 and he's worthy of a top sixty pick in the draft. 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.600 And you know, so obviously I'm not saying they're going 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.000 to do that, you know, but Al Golden knows him well, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.680 and that's the kind of you know, look, I don't 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:54.960 know what. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:56.000 Else gonna do. You know. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.200 Obviously, college and the NFL are totally different animals, and 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.560 Al's been in the NFL, so he kind of knows that. 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.520 But I mean, you're seeing a lot more split safety looks. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.520 You're seeing safeties that have to be far more multi dimensional. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.359 It's hard to live in this world now where a 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.840 safety can only let's say, play in the box, which 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.320 is the strength of Jordan Battle. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.119 So you know, I don't know, I don't know what 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:19.760 they're going to do at the position. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:21.719 I don't know how Al's going to see it, but 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.879 you know, Xavier Watts is a really intriguing player as well. 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.960 Gino Stone is the other safety at least right. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.840 Now post safety. See see right now. This is just 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.560 my sense from tape study. You know, again, this coaching 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.840 staff will do their work and they're with those guys 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.080 every day, but my sense of their safety position now 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.920 is they've got a post safety in a box safety. 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.960 And they're not really that interchangeable. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.679 And I think in today's NFL, I don't know if 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.960 you can live in that world. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.199 Every week, I peppered Xavier Watts with a bunch of 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.680 questions about possibly being reunited with Al Golden in Cincinnati. 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.360 He would be a natural the Bengals second round pick 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.840 forty nine. I don't know if he'll be there, but 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.280 Xavier Watts is well aware of the fact that a 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.480 lot of people have made that connection that it would 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:09.120 be a natural. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:09.639 Yeah. 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.200 And like I said, I mean I had a conversation 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.200 you know, at the combine here this year with a 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.479 dB coach. He actually focuses on safeties and that's one 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.879 of the things you know that he talked about, is 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:23.040 it's hard. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.280 To live in a world now where. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.880 Safeties are just in a sense one dimensional, and how 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.520 they can play well. And again I'm not you know, 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.280 I obviously did Jordan Battle coming out. I've seen him 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:40.400 with Cincinnati. He's he's the kind of kid you want 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.440 to play. I mean, he's smart, he's aware, he's savvy, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.840 but he just has a certain set of traits, you know. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.800 And and I'm not sure he's a back end player, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.639 and Gino Stone is a back end player, and so 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.920 they're I think they're a little bit stuck in their 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.359 ability to be multi dimensional on the back back in. 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.439 So we'll see how they view that. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.200 And you know, if they view it seriously enough, they 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.119 certainly could decide to take a safety in the second round. 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.159 It's a pretty there's gonna be some interesting safeties in 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:13.800 this draft. 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:15.359 You know. 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.159 Again, the kid who's probably the most fascinating is the 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.160 South Carolina kid nick Him and Wari because he's six three, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.280 two twenty And I had a coach tell me that 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.159 in his mind, he's exactly like Javon Holland, who's a 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.240 really good player. So you know, again, it all depends, 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:33.920 you know, We just don't know what Al's going to 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.840 do at this point. You know, he's he's a value. 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.840 You know what guys do. They start by evaluating their 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.320 talent before they go to free agency in the draft. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.080 So I'm sure he's done all that already, but I 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:46.280 don't know what he thinks. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.200 I'm pinballing around with Greg Cosel. I want to get 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.280 your thoughts on Chase Brown. He shared the running back 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.160 position for about the first half of the season until 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.680 Zach Moss got hurt, and then over the final eight 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.760 games that he played more than ninety combined rushing and 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.440 receiving yards in every game he had double digit touchdowns. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.800 What do you think of Chase Brown and the element 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:09.760 that he has added to Cincinnati's offense. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.159 I like Chase Brown, and I think, you know, it's funny. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.919 Every team is different and every situation is different. The 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.359 way the Bengals run offense, given that they have one 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.520 of the best quarterbacks in the game is and he 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.760 did have many games where he had twenty plus carries, 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.200 But they don't need a foundation back in the way 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.680 that let's say Derek Henry's a foundation back or sae 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.680 Quon Barkley is a foundation back. 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:32.000 Yes. 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.240 Are there games where it plays out where he's going 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:39.080 to get twenty four carries? Yes, But the goal I imagine 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.520 for their offenses not oh, we better get Chase Brown 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.400 twenty four carries. But he's capable of that. I think 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.600 he fits really well within their offense. I like him 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.639 a lot in the context of that offense. He's a 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.760 better receiver than people might have thought. So Yeah, I 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.160 think he's works fine. I don't think there's an issue 0:21:59.160 --> 0:21:59.960 with running back at all. 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.600 As you study quarterbacks going into the draft, has Joe 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.160 Burrow become your measuring stick for processing? 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.960 Joe Burrow is in many ways my measuring stick for 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.760 what you have to be as a pocket quarterback. We 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.240 know he can move, and obviously he moves better than 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.480 anybody thought when he came out, and we know, you know, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.360 very often he's had to move because the old line 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.000 hasn't been very good and he's shown tremendous ability. But 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.960 would the the way the NFL game has evolved, and 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:38.520 particularly the way defenses have evolved, it's very hard, in 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.000 my view anyway, to be a pure pocket quarterback unless 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:46.399 you can play it at a really, really high level. 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.760 Pre snap and post snap and post snap. There's ten 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.600 variables that go with the post snap part, and Burrow 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.600 can do all that at the highest level. But it's 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.879 hard to play the position like that. I mean, I 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.360 think c. J. Stroud at is a guy that has 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.760 shown he's capable of that. He had some ups and 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.480 downs this year as he's continuing to learn how to 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:14.159 play in the league. But it's really hard to just be, 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.280 in his sense, a pocket quarterback in today's NFL unless. 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.520 You are somewhat of a computer chip. And Burrow is. 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.360 And I've had this conversation obviously for the last two 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.240 days here at the combine regarding shudor Sanders. Obviously who 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.000 the Bengals, I'm not, they don't care about that, but 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:33.840 but you know, Burrow is the measuring stick for that 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.800 kind of court. I mean, he's just and he makes 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.919 it he makes it look easy. I mean, that's the 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.440 thing that is amazing. And guys will tell you that 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.440 that could be the highest guy. I remember talking years 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:47.399 and years ago to Steve Young, who I've gotten to 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.000 know very well over the years, and I mentioned to him, 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:51.360 you know, sometimes you just make it. 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:52.000 Look like it's easy. 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:53.879 He said, That's the best compliment you could ever given me, 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:54.440 because it's so. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:55.600 Hard, you know. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.600 I mean, and Burrow sometimes when he just drops back 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.320 and throw that, it looks like he's just out in 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.600 the park, like playing with kids, you know, but he's 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:06.359 you know, there's not going to. 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:08.720 Be twenty Joe Burrows that you know that. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.080 And and that's why I always am loathed to compare 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:15.000 guys to you know, great great players. Sometimes you can 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:20.120 make a stylistic comparison, you know, but a true comparison, 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.359 like I've heard people say Shadorth Sanders, well he's like 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:23.639 Joe Burrow, but he's not. 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:26.639 I mean, I know what they mean, but he's not. 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.640 They're both right handed, right exactly. 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.720 Yeah, yeah, they both play quarterback. 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:32.320 Yeah, yeah, you know. 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.879 So yeah, Burrow is is is a really fun watch 0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:40.040 for me. I mean, I've evolved tremendously in my the 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.160 way I evaluate quarterbacks because the game forces you to evolve, 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.239 and you like, I like to think I can do that. 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.480 But when I watch Burrow play, you know, and he 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:50.480 had some games this year, I mean it just was 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:51.600 they were ridiculous. 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.240 Obviously he had to put up you know, what do you. 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:55.960 Have four or five games this year, or they scored 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.680 more than thirty three and they lost. You know, I mean, 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:03.080 you know, but he just it's he's a joy for 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:03.720 me to watch. 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:06.479 You're so right about how hard it is. 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.720 I have a little more leeway when I attend University 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.600 of Cincinnati practices for where I can stand as opposed 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.359 to a Bengals practice, So sometimes I'll stand right behind 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:16.320 the offensive line. 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:19.200 And honestly, other than a screen. 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:21.640 Pass, I don't know how they do it with all 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:23.040 of the traffic, the rush. 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:25.359 It's incredible what quarterbacks are able to do. 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.240 I'm blown away by it. And I'm even blown away 0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:30.400 by the guys who are shorter. We've kind of accepted 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:31.840 in the league now that you can play if you're 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.800 six feet six y one, although it's harder. And you know, 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:36.880 the thing about Burrow, you and I were talking about 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:42.200 this yesterday. Burrow, he doesn't necessarily look like a big 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:43.680 guy on tape, Like you don't look at barn and 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:44.640 Goo man, he's a big guy. 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:47.040 Some you know, Josh Allen, Hey, there's a big guy, 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:49.960 you know. But Burrow is a big guy. You know, 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:51.720 he's not short. He's a big guy. 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.359 And but you're right, I don't know how they how 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:57.680 they do this, and particularly how fast they do it, 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:01.199 you know. And one of the things, and I've had 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:03.280 this conversation as well, but this is something I've thought 0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:05.919 about on my own, just watching college and going to 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:08.119 some you know, certain kind of events over the years. 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:11.280 A lot of quarterbacks now, most quarterbacks, the way they're 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.840 brought up, beginning when they're ten, eleven, twelve years old, 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.240 everything is pure progression. They really know very little about defenses, 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:22.240 and you know, it's just harder to play that way. 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:24.919 I mean Kurt Warner, who I know, well, he just 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.159 is blown away by the fact that how can you 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:30.280 not know about defense and play quarterback in the NFL, 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:34.639 you know. And I'm in that school of thought. Obviously 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:36.960 I've never dropped back, you know, but you know, you 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:38.199 kind of have to know that stuff. 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:42.120 Final thing for Greg Cosell, and I really appreciate your time. 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.199 This is always a highlight in Indianapolis for me. The 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.840 Bengals won their last five games last year to finish 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:50.359 a game over five hundred. They needed some help on 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.560 the final day of the season to make the playoffs. 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:56.000 They didn't get it, as Denver beat Kansas City had 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.560 they snuck in. Were you of the mind that they 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:02.480 were going to be a real threat in the postseason? 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:08.879 Well, they're going to score, so yes, The question is 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:10.760 is you know where they're going to have to win? 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:12.960 Thirty eight thirty five? That was going to be the question. 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:15.199 And those kinds of games are hard, as you know, 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:16.560 they're hard to play every week. 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:18.159 I mean we just said that, you know, you know 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:18.639 better than I. 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:20.360 But I think it was four or five games where 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:23.960 they lost by scoring over thirty three. So that becomes 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:27.119 the question is that you know, can you win in 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.800 the playoffs meaningfully? Thirty eight thirty five? History says normally no. 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.760 But their offense is certainly fun to watch. And I'm 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:39.199 not sure any defensive coordinator you know will tell you 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.639 that they love to play against Burrow, you know, but 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:45.600 because he's just he's so good. So I don't know, 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:48.560 that's a hard question to answer. But they're they're one 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:50.200 of my most fun offenses to watch. 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:54.400 They're fun to broadcast, I can tell you that. And 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:56.240 this is always so much fun for me. Or really 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:59.320 appreciate your time. Look forward to a singing again sometime soon. 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:00.720 Thanks, Dan, appreciate it. 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:02.280 I don't think. 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:06.760 There's anybody I enjoy talking football with more than Greg Cosell. 0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:10.679 One of this year's draft prospects that came up in 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:15.320 our conversation was Notre Dame safety Xavier Watts. The twenty 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:17.520 three year old who spent five years with a fighting 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.040 Irish won the Nagirsky Award as the best defensive player 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:24.360 in the country two years ago and was a consensus 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:28.919 All American this season. So how important was he to 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.880 l Golden's great defenses at Notre Dame? 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:35.520 Very very important. He was an integral part of it. 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:40.240 And obviously there's there's a comfort level when you're a 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:43.000 play caller and you know that someone has the same heartbeat, 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:48.360 someone understands exactly what you're looking for. So I'm excited 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:51.000 for him and the opportunity that he has, you know, 0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:52.160 here moving forward. 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.520 Watts spoke to reporters on Thursday and was asked about 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:59.400 his relationship with the bengals new defensive coordinator. 0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:02.360 He's a very, very caring coach. So I mean, when 0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:04.200 guys get that type of care from a coach and 0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:05.880 when they put it in that much effort, you want 0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:06.920 to go out there and play for them. 0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:11.080 Watt certainly made plays for the Fighting Irish, intercepting thirteen 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:13.680 passes over the last two years. 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:15.440 To win the football game, you got to get the ball. 0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:17.320 I feel like coach Golden has done a great job 0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:20.440 of instilling that as me and as a team another name. 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:22.640 So obviously when I'm out there, I'm always trying to 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:23.200 get the ball. 0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.040 But interceptions is not at the top of the list 0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.560 of what Coach Golden is looking for in his safeties. 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:32.760 Be Able to command your team, I think that's really important. 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:35.680 You've got to be audible and demonstrative. You got to 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.640 defend the deep ball really well, whether that's third half, quarter, 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:41.520 whatever that case may be. And you've got to be 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:44.520 a great tackle, especially in the alley. So there's more 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:46.880 than that, but that's a good start, you know, if 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:51.080 you could start there with those three. But anytime you 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:52.520 want to have a great defense, you have to be 0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:56.320 great up the middle. From a communications standpoint standpoint, there's 0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.400 so much that makes up today's offenses. You know, the 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:04.840 pre snap motions, the empty the empty quads, the jet motions, 0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:08.760 all of those things. And if you're not demonstrative, if 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:11.920 you're not confident, and it's our job to get that 0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:12.680 from our guys. 0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:15.080 Most of the mock drafts I've looked at have Watts 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:18.120 going in the second round, and Pro Football Focus calls 0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:23.920 him the ideal fit for Cincinnati. I asked Xavier if 0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:26.600 he's heard the scuttle but about a possible reunion with 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:28.760 his college coach in Cincinnati. 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:31.120 Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen some of the stuff. 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:33.120 I try to stay away from it, but it's hard. 0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:34.600 While I'm always on my phone for the most part, 0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:36.720 and I'm getting taggs and mentioned in certain stuff. So 0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.360 I mean, I don't know how that stuff works or 0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:41.200 what's gonna happen. By the end the day, I'm just 0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:42.760 do what I need to do and then we'll see 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:43.560 what happens in the future. 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:46.120 What said He did not have a formal interview scheduled 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.040 with the Bengals at the Combine. But when you think 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.960 about it, considering how well Al Golden already knows him, 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:54.880 there really wasn't a need to use one of their 0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:59.520 forty five allotted interviews in Indianapolis with him. Here's a 0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:02.320 quick that The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.240 by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals Official HR 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:09.520 software provider by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:12.280 to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, 0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.440 and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans. 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:21.320 Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now, 0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:24.720 time to hear from one of the prominent draft gurus 0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:28.040 I caught up with at the Combine, the NFL Networks 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:33.920 Lance zer Line Lance. The Bengals need defensive line help. 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.880 How would you describe this draft for defensive linemen? 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.280 Couldn't be better? Awesome, very deep. 0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:43.200 You'll be able to find starters day one, day two, 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:45.280 and into day three, especially if you're looking for a 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.880 defensive tackle. So this is one of the better I mean, 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:51.560 the strength of this draft is edge rusher and defensive tackle. 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:53.440 If you guys locked down Trey. 0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:55.080 Hendrickson, which I think is going to happen, I don't. 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:57.880 You can't let a rusher leave. So if that happens, 0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:00.200 then you want to get better inside. This is a 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:02.360 good draft to go get it inside as well. You 0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:05.520 got a couple talents of players. You have like three 0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:07.880 or four players in the first round defensive tackle wise 0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:09.040 that you could take a look at that would be 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:11.680 high impact players, but it really doesn't stop there. It 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:14.920 gets deep beyond that. So this is a really good draft. 0:32:14.920 --> 0:32:17.200 If you need defensive line help. If you need quarterback help, 0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:19.479 not a good draft. You need defensive line help, you're 0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:20.200 gonna be in a good shake. 0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:22.719 The Bengals do not need quarterback help, as you know. 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.120 So let's talk about some of those defensive linemen. I 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:27.880 assume Mason Graham will be long gone, but some of 0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:31.080 the other defensive tackles that we're hearing about and reading 0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:35.120 about include Walter Nolan from all Miss Tyleek Williams from 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:39.600 Ohio State, Kenneth Grant from Michigan, Dereck Harmon from Oregon. 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:42.800 Of those guys, who do you think is most likely 0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.520 to still be there at seventeen and who do you like? 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:46.320 Well? 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:49.239 I think what's gonna happen with Kenneth Grant is he's 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.200 gonna have a big he's gonna test well, and you're 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:54.000 gonna have a guy who's three hundred and forty pounds 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:57.000 run about a four to eight five four nine two 0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:00.280 forty and he's gonna look good in drills, going to 0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:02.520 do all the testing well. So he's going to shoot up, 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.680 and I think he probably isn't going to be there. 0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.360 Derek Harmon. Did you mention Derek Carmon. Yeah, I think 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:10.640 Derek Carmon will be there now. 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:12.400 He's more of just you know, he's more of a 0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:15.840 run stuffing guy who can help your rush as a 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:16.440 swarm unit. 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.960 He's not going to do a lot individually, but he 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:19.960 should be there. 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:25.200 Walter Nolan, if he's there, I mean, you got to 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:27.000 vet why he's there, to find out. 0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:27.640 If there's a reason. 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:29.320 You know, you will have done your work by then, 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:31.480 so you're either comfortable with him or you're not. But 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:33.160 if he's still there, I mean, to me, he's the 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:36.000 most explosive defensive tackle on this draft. I don't think 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:37.400 he'll be the first one. I think it will be 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:38.000 Mason Graham. 0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:38.600 As you mentioned. 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:40.920 If Walter Nolan's there, i'd run it up. Tyler Williams. 0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:42.480 I don't know that I draft him at first, but 0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.480 I like him a lot, so that would be one. 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:46.800 If you were able to trade out of the first 0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:49.520 round or move up from your second round pick, which 0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:52.120 like forty nine I believe, and move up into the 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:54.480 earlier stages of the second round, then you can take 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:55.600 a look at Tyler Williams. 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:56.800 But all I like all. 0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:58.560 Those guys for the Bengals, I think those are I 0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:00.800 think you're on it in terms of the players who 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.959 they should be looking at in those two spots, William 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:07.040 or in that spot at one, although like I said, 0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:09.040 I think William's the guy who's probably more of a 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:10.480 second round player, even though I like. 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:10.839 Him a lot. 0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:14.440 Lanzerline from NFL Network is our guest. Let's move to 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:17.160 some of the edge guys. I assume that Jalen Walker 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:19.040 won't be there. Here are some of the guys that 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:22.320 have been projected to possibly be available at number seventeen. 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.480 Mike Green from Marshall, Chamar Stewart from Texas A and 0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:30.040 m James Pierce from Tennessee, the Boston College kid whose 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:32.759 last name I'm not going to try to pronounce. Of 0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:34.960 those guys, do you think that there's a good chance 0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:36.160 that they'll be there at seventeen? 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:36.839 And what do you think? 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:38.239 I think it's seventeen. 0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:44.920 Izeraku from Boston College will be there. It might be 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:47.880 a little early for him, but once again, you always 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.719 have to remember, you know, there's always a distinct possibility 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:53.320 of trading back, adding a third round pick, adding a 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:54.000 fourth round. 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.359 Pick, to move back two spots, three spots, or move back. 0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:58.719 To me, the strength of this draft is really going 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.640 to be more, you know, like twenty to forty five 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.840 forty six, So moving back aggressively seven or eight spots, 0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:07.400 that allows you to still. 0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:09.160 Target an edge that you like, if that's what you 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:09.600 want to do. 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:12.920 At the same time, you know, well, what you want 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:13.960 to do is you want to be in play for 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.880 multiple positions. So if you move back into the twenty 0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:20.520 three through twenty six range, you got maybe one of 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:22.960 those defensive tackles, maybe two of them still on the board, 0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.239 You've got three edge rushers. So to me, for the 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:28.680 where the Bengals are, that might be a great position 0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:30.520 to move back pick up an extra third round pick. 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.120 Is if you aggressively move back seven eight spots, the 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.719 higher your compensation is third round pick, potentially second round pick, 0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:39.000 depending on you know, how far you move back. 0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:42.799 So I think that who are the other who are 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:43.799 the edge rushers. 0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:48.279 That you mentioned, James Pierce, Yeah, Schamar, Stuart, Mike Green. 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:51.560 So Stuart should be right around there. He's going to 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:52.120 test great. 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:55.640 Look great, Production's not great, but I think Mike Green 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:58.359 has gone by then Stuart could be on the board. 0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:02.040 He's probably the best looking player in this draft. And 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:04.840 from a you know, I remember when Carlos Dunlap was 0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:06.920 a was a Bengal. That's the kind of body type, 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:09.680 you know, an impressive, long body type, but maybe even 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:13.520 more muscular and imposing with more and more explosive as 0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.000 an athlete. But Dunlap is he's in that same kind 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:20.120 of category. Pierce is one who I think will fall 0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:23.240 back a little bit. There's some there's some character stuff 0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:25.520 that that that teams have to be okay with from 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:28.120 what I've been told from team sources. So I think 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.839 that nineteen might be a little early for him, not 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:33.520 necessarily talent wise, but where the league is going to 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:37.360 value him. But you move back and maybe you're a 0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:38.200 little more comfortable. 0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:39.919 But then again, you know, there are some teams who say, 0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:41.719 if I'm wanting to take a guy at thirty, I 0:36:41.760 --> 0:36:43.360 got to be willing to take a guy at nineteen. 0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:44.520 There's no difference. 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:46.600 Lanzerline is our guest. 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.200 In your first mock draft, you had the Bengals taking 0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:53.319 a wide receiver Tetoroal McMillan from Arizona, the number one 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:58.680 wide receiver on many people's board. I assume with that pick, 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:00.840 you're thinking they're not to be able to get a 0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:02.160 deal done with t Higgins. 0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:04.520 Well, you know, I think they'll franchise make I think 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:06.640 they could franchise him again. But he's off of one 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:10.520 franchise tag, right, so you can go to here's the thing. 0:37:11.000 --> 0:37:12.720 It's not a great wide receiver draft. 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:15.439 So if I'm the Bengals, I'm getting a deal done 0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:18.640 with Hendrickson. It's just me the new general manager. Sorry, Toby, 0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:20.319 I'm gonna do your job for you a little bit here. 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:22.160 I don't have to take the bullets you have to take, 0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:25.080 so it's easier. But I'm probably I'm keeping a rusher. 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:27.080 And then what I'm doing is I'm gonna say, look, 0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:29.680 we're gonna do it one more time. T We're gonna 0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:31.799 franchise you again. It's gonna be good money. Franchise tag 0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:34.200 a wide receiver's good money. Now you have to hope 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:36.440 he still comes into camp because the new thing is 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:38.160 gonna be I'm gonna sit out. I'm gonna force you 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:40.600 to trade me. If that happens. You know, you cross 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:43.040 that bridge when you when you get there. You can 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.960 also maybe make a decision you franchise tag him and 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:47.880 then you can rescind it later on, depending on how 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:48.960 your draft works out. 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.400 So you know, if you need a wide receiver. I 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:55.680 like Luther Burden. I think that uh McMillan will. 0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:57.840 I think he's gonna test pretty well, so he'll probably 0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:00.719 be gone by the time the pick is made. Now, 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:03.120 Matthew Golden is somebody who's gonna run well here and 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:06.520 Tess Well. I could see Matthew Golden as a potential Bengal, 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:08.360 but I looked at wide receivers for you guys in 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:09.080 the second round. 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:10.320 And Jack Besh. 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:13.520 Who's about two hundred and twenty pounds, hands like flypaper 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:17.520 like flypaper like really sticky hands, good route runner, tough, 0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:20.319 tough kid, had a great Senior Bowl. You know, he's 0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:22.680 one of those possession receivers you got the number one 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:24.640 on the other side. What you're looking for as a 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:27.960 complimentary too. And I think somebody who can win possession catches, 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.759 can make tough catches, contested catches, has great hands. You know, 0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:34.680 that's something you could look for in the second round. 0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:36.759 So he's one of those guys to me that you 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:40.279 could potentially be looking at. I had another target for 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:42.440 you in the second round, wide receiver. 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:43.960 Let me give you another one for your for your 0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:44.720 listening audience. 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:48.040 Here, Oh Trey Harris, Well, Tray's going to be more along. 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:49.839 I don't think he'd be the great fit. That's more 0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:52.520 Jamar's role. So I would say the next guy might 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:57.440 be well, Emeka Igbuka would be a good one. And 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:00.640 Jaden Higgins there he is from Iowa State. Ayden Higgins 0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:04.640 to me, fits the t Higgins role really well. He's longer, 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:06.720 if that's what you cover it as a longer receiver 0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:11.839 with good ball skills. Jayden Higgins from Iowa State would 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:14.440 be a player at forty nine who should be in 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.720 that general vicinity. He should be available sometime between forty 0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:18.240 and fifty. 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:21.320 No relation to t Higgins, but he looks a lot 0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:25.360 like I'm a tall, big target, big reach, big wingspan 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:26.000 kind of guy. 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:30.560 Yeah. And you know, sometimes in my eleven years of 0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:30.920 doing this. 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:34.080 With NFL, and I did it before this, what you 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.359 find is that head coaches and general managers, whether it's 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:39.360 on the collegiate level, Nick Saban used to have the 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:42.200 same type of players come in year after year. 0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:44.000 So my player comps a lot of times. 0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:47.719 Would be former Alabama, you know, Crimson Tide players because 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:51.960 they were so similar body type wise and play play wise. Well, 0:39:51.960 --> 0:39:55.560 when you have Zach and Tobin and offensive staff that 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:58.719 I could see them saying, look, our second wide receiver, we. 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:00.919 Really liked what t did for we want to find 0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:03.720 a guy like him. So then you start developing types. 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:06.080 If you didn't already have a type that you wanted 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.440 from a trade standpoint, if you had somebody you're just 0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:12.799 coming off of that was really good, it makes sense 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.560 that subconsciously you want to find that kind of guy again. 0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:17.799 So I think it would make sense that that's one 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:20.200 of the reasons I went and searched out players that 0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:23.000 were bigger, that could win above the rim, that had 0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:25.759 strong hands, you know, because I think that the Bengals 0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:29.080 coming off of that guy, want to find that guy 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:31.879 again because it's it's worked pretty well for him so far. 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:35.040 Yes, it has Lancer Line from NFL Network is our guest. 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.000 The Bengals need a guard. I would be surprised that 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.600 they went for one in the first round. Do you 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:44.560 have a Day two or even Day three guard that 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:45.960 would make sense for Cincinnati. 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:48.040 I always have Day two and Day three picks. 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:50.000 I just I got my little cheat sheet here, so 0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:52.359 I can I can find you a Bengal. Let's see 0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:56.799 for what the Bengals like to do. I would say, well, 0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:58.279 there's a player that I like a lot in the 0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:01.600 fourth round named Josh Gray Oregon State. I think he's 0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:04.200 about a fourth round pick. He was at the Shrine Game. 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:07.040 He's a former tackle turn guard from Oregon State. He's 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:10.120 got some outside zone experience at Oregon State when they 0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:12.360 ran that. But what a lot of teams like to do, 0:41:12.400 --> 0:41:13.880 and when I look at the Bengals, I want to 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:15.160 find guys that can really protect. 0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:17.279 I mean, that's obviously got to be the thing now. 0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:19.600 So if I can find a tackle, a guy who 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.719 played tackle who now plays guard and he's got experience 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:25.279 with his hands and his pass sets, you know, that's 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:25.920 what I'm covering. 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:26.719 So I'm looking for that. 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:29.120 Charles Grant from William and Mary is going to be 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:31.600 a red hot name out here. Another tackle who can 0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:34.800 play guard. I think he's more of a third round player. 0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:37.719 He's going to test really, really well. He might might 0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:39.479 even go before the Bengals draft. 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:41.600 In the third round. But that's another name you want 0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:42.120 to see. 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:46.400 And then i'd say White milem very tough guy, physical, 0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:50.920 aggressive once again, former tackle. He's got shorter arms, so 0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:52.919 he's going to have to move inside, but he has 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:55.280 the experience of playing out there at tackle. 0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:57.960 He is going to have the core strength that you want. 0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:01.440 And he's nasty, and I think getting nastiness on the 0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:05.520 front for the Bengals, but not sacrificing pass pro is 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:06.880 going to have to become a big priority. 0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:09.120 Mike Kasicki is a free agent. 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:11.640 Eric All, the tight end they drafted last year out 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.399 of Iowa, has a significant enough knee injury that he's 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:16.160 not expected to come back this year. 0:42:16.560 --> 0:42:17.480 So same question. 0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:19.200 I don't think the Bengals would take one in the 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:21.719 first round. What about day two or day three for 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:22.359 tight ends. 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.200 It's a great year for tight ends. It's a very 0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:26.000 deep year. 0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:28.839 For tight ends, and I think you know day two 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:33.560 I would rather personally wait. Well, so Elijah Arroyo would 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.160 fit from a pass catching standpoint, if you value the 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:39.319 pass catching over the blocking, if you want kind. 0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:40.200 Of a combination guy. 0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:43.000 I think Gunner Helm from University of Texas, he's going 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:45.920 to be more of a third early fourth type tight end. 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.279 Harold Fannin is a pure He led the league, he 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:52.719 led the nation, and like catches and receiving yards. 0:42:52.760 --> 0:42:55.960 He was just he was a monster. They targeted him 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:56.680 left and right. 0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.759 Great pass catching tight end once again, he's more of 0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:01.440 a slot though he's not going to do a whole 0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.120 lot of blocking, so if you want both of those things. 0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:07.360 A guy that I like a lot is Thomas Faedone 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:09.680 from I don't know if it's Fidona for Dona and 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:12.600 to check, but from Nebraska. 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:15.920 I really was impressed with him. He's a longer tight end, 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:17.320 but he is where. 0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:19.319 GATSICKI is just going to try to win above the rim. 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:22.680 Use that indoor volleyball experience to help you as a 0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:25.799 pass catcher. This is a player who's got some nastiness 0:43:25.800 --> 0:43:26.760 and toughness to him. 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:27.880 As a blocker. 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:32.640 He is I think an underappreciated route runner and pass catcher. 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:35.120 So to me, he's a great value pick in the 0:43:35.200 --> 0:43:36.760 fourth round for this tight end class. 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:39.360 Duke Tobyn spoke to reporters on Tuesday. 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:42.320 He called the Bengals a championship caliber team. 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:47.000 Do you agree, Well, it doesn't take much to switch 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:49.000 you from good to championship and the first thing he 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.120 got to do is get back, you know, is get 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:54.440 in the playoffs and go deep into playoffs. But you're 0:43:54.480 --> 0:43:56.799 not that far removed from a Super Bowl. I think 0:43:56.840 --> 0:44:00.560 if the pass protection is better, I think, you know, 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:02.879 it would have helped if Jamar had been in camp 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:05.040 and you got off to a little faster start, obviously, 0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:08.080 but I think having a pass rusher, you can't You're 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:09.399 not a championship caliber team. 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:11.680 If you lose Trey Henderson, You're just not. You have 0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:12.399 to rush the pass. 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:15.120 You've got a great pass covering linebacker, which is a 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.480 big difference maker in today's NFL. I think if you 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:20.279 tighten up the secondary just a little bit, you keep 0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:23.960 the pass rusher you've got, and then you bolster the 0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:26.160 offensive line and you fill in some of the spots 0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:27.919 that you and I have talked about. Yeah, I don't 0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:31.160 see why not. I mean, the Bengals were plus plus minus. 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:33.359 You know, they had three games that went against them 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:34.960 that could have gone in their favor. We'll do the 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:36.759 math on that. We're looking at it. You know, no 0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:39.240 one wanted to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Nobody 0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:41.359 wanted to see a red hot Bengals team, so you're 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:42.200 not that far off. 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:42.959 Lance. 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:45.960 Always appreciate your time. Your expertise is outstanding. Thank you 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:46.359 so much. 0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:47.320 I appreciate it. Thanks. 0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:51.319 Lance's dad, Larry, was the offensive line coach at the 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:55.320 University of Cincinnati for four years under Rick Mentor, during 0:44:55.320 --> 0:45:00.600 a stretch where the coaching staff included Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, 0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.560 and Rex Ryan, among others. That's going to do it 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.120 for this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to 0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:09.720 you by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:14.200 HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:16.960 designed to elevate your home, business and community to a 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:20.719 new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:24.240 the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:27.480 of the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please 0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:30.040 subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, 0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:33.000 give it a rating or share a comment that helps 0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:37.080 more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Hord and thanks 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:39.920 for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast.