Speaker 1: On the dol Cast. The questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name
Speaker 1: is Caitlin Durante. Oh my god, this is our podcast.
Speaker 1: You're listening to it. Here we are. This is the
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. We talked about the representation, the portrayal, the
Speaker 1: treatment of women in movies, one movie at a time.
Speaker 1: I'm drinking uh seven eleven juice. Yeah, I'm because you
Speaker 1: think we need sweat. I'm kind of disappointed that you're
Speaker 1: not drinking Mark's hard lemonade today, but I'm fully today.
Speaker 1: After they followed us on Twitter and everything, you wouldn't believe,
Speaker 1: they still have yet to send us any of their product.
Speaker 1: But we'll get there. I don't know. I'm still I
Speaker 1: I got into an online feud with the geeks who drank,
Speaker 1: and I'm still really battling with that, and I think
Speaker 1: that they're they're afraid of me, and then I sort
Speaker 1: of just you know, it can't be feuding. Right now,
Speaker 1: I understand feud. A show al for Molina was nominated
Speaker 1: for a Golden Glove and snubbed. There we go, there's
Speaker 1: the mention, Oh, so we so we look at movies
Speaker 1: through the lens of how they treat women, using the
Speaker 1: Bechdel test as a yard stick as a start for
Speaker 1: the combo. Bechdel test for us is there has to
Speaker 1: be a conversation between two female identifying characters in the
Speaker 1: movie with names talking about something other than a man
Speaker 1: for more than two lines of dialogue. Yeah, it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like it would be that hard for any movie
Speaker 1: to pass. And yet, and yet so many simply do not.
Speaker 1: Yes today today, I mean, I feel like no one
Speaker 1: will be shocked to know. I say, we blow the
Speaker 1: reveal that that lady Ladybirds done done. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to talk about it. Yeah, before we get into that,
Speaker 1: they'll let us introduce guest. She's a hilarious comedian. She
Speaker 1: runs a show called Velvet Charlotte Lordston being here, dected
Speaker 1: to be here. Thanks for having me cool, Thanks for
Speaker 1: bringing up this movie. Of course, this movie so you
Speaker 1: saw in theaters and I'm guessing screens. Sorry, I mean
Speaker 1: it only came out a couple of months ago. So
Speaker 1: why did you pick this movie? Well, I also I
Speaker 1: literally like when I saw the previous for it, I
Speaker 1: reached out to my reps and asked for a script.
Speaker 1: So I read the script before I ever saw the
Speaker 1: movie because I was just so excited about Greta Gerwig
Speaker 1: writing a film and like it's getting any kind of buzz,
Speaker 1: Like I just get really excited when I see women
Speaker 1: doing things that are like close to my age. It
Speaker 1: just feels like I could do it. And it just
Speaker 1: seemed like such a cool movie. I hadn't seen stuff
Speaker 1: like I'm interested in writing a mother daughter kind of movie,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to see how she wrote out
Speaker 1: that relationship. And it was like, really, you know, worthwhile
Speaker 1: to read the script acy the movie. That's awesome, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see. Yeah. Hey, speaking of scripts,
Speaker 1: I do have a master's degree in screenwriting that I
Speaker 1: hate to bring it up, you know, I just but
Speaker 1: you know I've written a script before. No big deal.
Speaker 1: That's good to know. I didn't know that about you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I know that now. Well, congratulations on
Speaker 1: still having a master's to thank you take it away
Speaker 1: from you after all that money. Yeah, imagine if they did,
Speaker 1: like you don't use it in four years, are like, sorry,
Speaker 1: you got to take it now. Unfortunately it's got like
Speaker 1: an expiration date. Dude, he still owes two hundred thou dollars. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm using it every day, every day
Speaker 1: that we record an episode. I'm using that Master's baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a coping mechanism. This is
Speaker 1: totally screenwriter adjacent for sure. Like some people totally never
Speaker 1: even thank you for helping me validate my choices. We've
Speaker 1: all made lovely We've all made choices, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like I make choices all the time. Some
Speaker 1: of them were good. Some of them we're not saying whatever, hey,
Speaker 1: kind of like what happens in today's movie. Quit people
Speaker 1: making choices. Some of them are some of them are okay, masterful.
Speaker 1: I learned about transitions in writing classes. Again, I don't
Speaker 1: like to bring it up. So I saw Ladybird in
Speaker 1: the theater. I liked a lot the first time. I
Speaker 1: would say that I didn't like it quite as much
Speaker 1: the second time. Some of it's I had the opposite experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I would say, because I read it first.
Speaker 1: I liked the script better than I liked the movie
Speaker 1: interesting just a little bit only because of the casting choices.
Speaker 1: I was surprised by some of them. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: was surprised by the boyfriend, her first boyfriend. That's that
Speaker 1: casting choice, especially because he just looked so much more
Speaker 1: like a baby than she does. And I like, it
Speaker 1: was glaring to me, like, just get someone older. We
Speaker 1: all know they're older playing younger, so it's like, so
Speaker 1: that was weird. And I thought the brother casting was
Speaker 1: and the girlfriend I thought those were both kind of
Speaker 1: weird casting choices. So I ever seen either of those
Speaker 1: actors before, thank me, neither. So this is I think
Speaker 1: we are to understand autobiographical of Gwig's life. Does she
Speaker 1: have like I wonder if she has like an adopted
Speaker 1: sibling or not? I look it up neither. Maybe, Well,
Speaker 1: well that's from doing for my understanding that autobiographical portion
Speaker 1: is that she lived in a small town and wanted
Speaker 1: to go to school in New York. So everyone who's
Speaker 1: ever everybody has had the sixth right, so it's so relatable.
Speaker 1: Every time the mother and the daughter are on screen
Speaker 1: in this movie. I'm crying. I like fully allowed myself
Speaker 1: to be manipulated. Oh my god. There are some lines
Speaker 1: in there that really get a tear out. The scene
Speaker 1: where they're shopping at the Good Wealthy when she asked
Speaker 1: her do you like me? The yeah, because they were
Speaker 1: shopping at that time too. Yeah, yeah, anytime they're in
Speaker 1: a startic we wouldn't be shopping but having them deep
Speaker 1: fast conversations. Oh my god, the one. But I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of the part where they they're having a fight when
Speaker 1: they're like looking at close on the rack and then
Speaker 1: she pulls up one dress and then immediately they're not fighting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, it's so good. Yeah, I'm gonna I thought
Speaker 1: the movie did such a great job of showing how
Speaker 1: you can forgive your kid for who they are at
Speaker 1: that age, if that makes sense, you know, because you
Speaker 1: can tell her mother loved her and knows that she'll
Speaker 1: grow up and knows that she'll be more responsible. She
Speaker 1: just wants more for her, but doesn't like her at
Speaker 1: this age because she's so annoying. I guess I'm reading
Speaker 1: a little bit about Greta Gerwig the early life section
Speaker 1: of her Wikipedia that a scholar but This does actually
Speaker 1: seem like a pretty close adaptation of what her life was,
Speaker 1: where her mom was an O B G y N nurse,
Speaker 1: her dad worked for a credit union. She has a
Speaker 1: younger brother. They don't say if he is adopted, but
Speaker 1: and then she went to an all girls Catholic school
Speaker 1: in Sacramento. And she describes herself as a quote an
Speaker 1: intense child, which also attracts with ladybirds. So so, speaking
Speaker 1: of that, I'll kind of give a recap of the
Speaker 1: story Caitlin's famous riga. We focus on Christine McPherson, who
Speaker 1: has given herself the name Lady Bird and she wants
Speaker 1: everyone to call her that. She is a senior in
Speaker 1: high school in Sacramento at an all girls Catholic high school.
Speaker 1: She does not especially like Sacramento, or at least she
Speaker 1: doesn't think that she does, and she is gearing up
Speaker 1: to be applying for colleges because she doesn't like Sacramento
Speaker 1: in California in general. She doesn't want to go to
Speaker 1: any of like the U C. State schools around. She
Speaker 1: wants to go to New York. She wants to go
Speaker 1: on the East Coast, so kind of that's on her mind.
Speaker 1: She has a difficult relationship with her mother, Marian, played
Speaker 1: by Laurie Metcalfe. Her mother is a bit overbearing, She's
Speaker 1: pretty judgmental. They get in a lot of arguments. Her dad,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, is like total beta male, like
Speaker 1: sweetest guy ever. And she has a best friend named
Speaker 1: Julie who throughout the sister I didn't know that until
Speaker 1: earlier today. Yeah, I did not. Now that I know that,
Speaker 1: I can totally see it right. Like she was she
Speaker 1: was my favorite or one of one of my favorite
Speaker 1: performances in the movie. I really loved her. I loved her.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see her more stuff. Same, she's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah so um. Over the course of the movie, their
Speaker 1: friendship has sort of an arc where they're very close.
Speaker 1: But then Ladybird meets this other girl in her class
Speaker 1: named Jenna. Is it. She comes from a wealthier family
Speaker 1: and she's more popular, So Ladybirds like I want to
Speaker 1: be also like hello sexual, she's and they well made
Speaker 1: and like a sexpot in a way. That is because
Speaker 1: this movie takes place in O two, right, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: very like an O two sexpot kind of vibe where
Speaker 1: I like, in a way I can't even describe. It
Speaker 1: was just like it's almost like a Britney Spears. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like approachable but like like having way more sex and
Speaker 1: it's comfortable age. Maybe get a parent as soon as
Speaker 1: you see her? Yeah, like the is there a scene
Speaker 1: where she's chewing bubble gum Like it's like on the lips,
Speaker 1: titties are out, Like she's just but she looks so young, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that she actually is. That is kind of
Speaker 1: a weird casting thing in this movie where it seems
Speaker 1: like the high school's mostly populated by kids that age,
Speaker 1: and then Sarsha Rounan is like, yeah, exactly, oh is she? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that how you say her name? Yeah? I learned
Speaker 1: from I had to watch the Goldic Clubs and just
Speaker 1: be like, how do they what are they gonna say?
Speaker 1: There's so many vowels. Yeah, I'll trying to remember that. Sa. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Timothy Shardonnay is it And but I'm getting ahead of Timothy.
Speaker 1: Charlottagne a friend charlottagne um little Howard's in. So her
Speaker 1: friendship with Jenna sort of displaces Julie a little bit,
Speaker 1: but then they drama club. She's good, but she's not
Speaker 1: so many drama Club Trauma Flashbacks got just like the
Speaker 1: sincerity of a high school drama club, and like watching that,
Speaker 1: you're just like, oh my god. Yeah, and then and
Speaker 1: then it's so bad. It's so bad. It was well done.
Speaker 1: How bad they made it yeah, and how they can't
Speaker 1: tell how bad it is great portrayal of drama club.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like when they cut to the scene and
Speaker 1: it's like they're they're like writhing around and primary colors right,
Speaker 1: and they think it's the most future like this is
Speaker 1: like six ship right here, like this is the best
Speaker 1: stuff you've alrea done in all ads and it's awful,
Speaker 1: like unwatchable. There's like a shot of the parents and
Speaker 1: they're just like these are kids, so we're like we
Speaker 1: have to summach god. I would shut. There's got to
Speaker 1: be like video evidence of my high school drama club somewhere,
Speaker 1: but I would I would die. I was never in
Speaker 1: drama club. I did um mock trial and I was
Speaker 1: on the soccer team. That was my extra curriculums. I
Speaker 1: was on mock trial and the tennis team. Tennis. I
Speaker 1: would I would like to play. I will, let's doll
Speaker 1: you about it. I've been playing tennis anyway, Jamie complete
Speaker 1: tennis with us Okay, Suttle YouTube. I played Division three
Speaker 1: in college so terribly. Yeah A yeah, I'm not good
Speaker 1: at tennis. He's kidding. I'm not. I'm just fairly Okay,
Speaker 1: that's all you have to be your D three in college? Oh?
Speaker 1: Is D three the division where you should show up? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I like to say it to intimidate people that don't
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. But it's really impressive. Yeah
Speaker 1: it does great. I was I was, I was blue. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So Ladybird, uh so she has these different friendships. Ladybird
Speaker 1: gets involved with this boy named Danny, who she meets
Speaker 1: through the theater production that they dood flashbacks. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: turns out to be gay, but I think we're supposed
Speaker 1: to believe that she might have her first kiss with him,
Speaker 1: or she says it's her first kiss. Okay. Then she
Speaker 1: gets involved with Timothy Charlemagne and who is like, who
Speaker 1: really is so good in this movie where you just
Speaker 1: hate great performance, horrible character, hate that guy. And then
Speaker 1: meanwhile she's you know, having conflicts with her mother. She's
Speaker 1: applied to New York schools behind her mother's back. All
Speaker 1: these things kind of come to a head around graduation
Speaker 1: when she gets wait listed it I think n y U,
Speaker 1: and her mother finds out about it, and she's all
Speaker 1: upset because the family is also lower middle class. They
Speaker 1: don't father was laid off, so they're having troubles that
Speaker 1: Her mom, I think is a nurse in a psychiatric
Speaker 1: hospital and she's working double shifts to pay for basically
Speaker 1: the whole family. And then Ladybird also has a brother, Miguel,
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend, Shelley, who also lives with the family.
Speaker 1: I wish I saw we saw those characters more. But
Speaker 1: Shelly especially seems like she has like one moment, but
Speaker 1: it's only sort of to be like labir'd be nice
Speaker 1: to your mom, and that's sort of all you get,
Speaker 1: which is weird because it sounds like there was like
Speaker 1: a lot there where it sounds like she was kicked
Speaker 1: out of her house for having Yeah, but they give
Speaker 1: her a kind of a decent storyline later, you know,
Speaker 1: because Shelly tells Ladybird how cool her mom was, because
Speaker 1: you know, when her actual mom kicked her out, her
Speaker 1: mom took her in very easily. And also Shelley's other
Speaker 1: storyline is wanting Ladybird to like her. Yeah, oh yes,
Speaker 1: because there's that scene over they're eating eggs and then
Speaker 1: Shelly's like, your sister doesn't like me, and Migul was like,
Speaker 1: yeah she does, and everyone's like fighting and yelling. It's cute. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, and then the story ends with her getting
Speaker 1: into the school in New York. Moving there, she drops Ladybird.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she starts dropping by Christine. Her mother and
Speaker 1: she have not really reconciled by the time she leaves,
Speaker 1: but her mom has written her all these notes and
Speaker 1: basically she like calls and leaves a phone message being
Speaker 1: like Mom, I love you, and and then that's kind
Speaker 1: of the end of the movie. And then she goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: which will stop very quickly after we started going to college.
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of time. But you know that
Speaker 1: description like that, the movie has so many great scenes
Speaker 1: and so many great moments and so many great lines
Speaker 1: like that you totally relate to from going to high
Speaker 1: school and starting to experience all these things and like,
Speaker 1: I'm from Taunton, Massachusetts. Way that's crazy, that's crazy, but
Speaker 1: totally you want to get out of there. You yeah,
Speaker 1: like you love and respect the town and the people
Speaker 1: that are there and you know everyone, and it's like
Speaker 1: it's very much familiar. But you know, I related to
Speaker 1: the movie so much in that sense that I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I get I gotta get out of here. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 1: the same experience for me. I grew up in a
Speaker 1: small town in rural Pennsylvania, graduated only a year after
Speaker 1: Ladybird's character did, so I was in high school right
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, justin Timberlake's Crimeer River
Speaker 1: was all the rage for me to so good. Also
Speaker 1: had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with my mother
Speaker 1: at the time. My mom LORI shout out to Lorie. Uh,
Speaker 1: she's chilled out considerably since then, but I'm sure you
Speaker 1: were perfects and she wanted to hang out with you.
Speaker 1: So that's what she did because she never let me
Speaker 1: leave the house. She didn't let me do anything. We
Speaker 1: were fighting about that all the time, Like we just
Speaker 1: argued a lot. When I was a teen, I dealt
Speaker 1: with my mom's over protectiveness in a different way, Like
Speaker 1: my parents didn't let me go to problem, Like my
Speaker 1: mom was super like my mom is super religious and overprotective,
Speaker 1: which I totally get, you know, what I mean. But
Speaker 1: I was like so super calm about it. I was
Speaker 1: really I was just like, all right, well, I'll just
Speaker 1: live at college and then I'll move away. I was
Speaker 1: too impatient because it's like, there's no point I'm not, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not rebellious towards my parents. I don't see any
Speaker 1: use in that. I think the world is already so hard,
Speaker 1: Like why would I give my my parents even more problems?
Speaker 1: And also like there's logic to her being overprotective. It
Speaker 1: just of course is oppressive to be so locked down
Speaker 1: all the time. But she tot n I I did
Speaker 1: go to ton Nill. Yeah, I don't know. Are literally
Speaker 1: the towns there right next to each other neighbors? Love
Speaker 1: your mom, great mom. I don't love the tot of mall. Really,
Speaker 1: that was always my face. You'd to go there. My
Speaker 1: mom would bring me a totton mall is like a
Speaker 1: special treat. And she was like, I'd got to Claire's,
Speaker 1: have at with like the red tag items at Claire's. God,
Speaker 1: there's nothing worse, nothing else to do, and there's no
Speaker 1: mall worse than the Brockton Mall. Agree only because I
Speaker 1: go get all of my we've there so we've taught
Speaker 1: there's that makes sense. Yeah, but in Brockton there's like
Speaker 1: lots of we've that's where all the black people live.
Speaker 1: It's great, it's yeah, I love fracton someone right. Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't even have a mall in my hometown, so
Speaker 1: well you were like in the woods space Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So this movie I think has a great
Speaker 1: depiction of a relationship between a high school young woman
Speaker 1: and her mother. Um, we've talked before on the podcast
Speaker 1: about movies set in high school often don't feel like
Speaker 1: any They don't look like any high school you've ever seen,
Speaker 1: they don't feel like any high school you went to.
Speaker 1: Like they just feel like a Hollywood version of what
Speaker 1: high school is, and they don't ever totally feel real.
Speaker 1: But to me, seeing this young woman just like that
Speaker 1: felt real. Her high school experience, her relationship with her
Speaker 1: mother is such a more in depth relationship than we
Speaker 1: often see explored in a movie, like a mainstream Hollywood
Speaker 1: movie like this. That alone made me. Especially the first
Speaker 1: time I really enjoyed this movie, I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this feels so honest. Seeing at the second time, I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't think I like Ladybird as a
Speaker 1: character very much. That was what I struggled with the
Speaker 1: first time. But then the second time when I saw
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, but I think that that means
Speaker 1: that the movie is doing a good job. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: the thing, because the characterization is so well done, and
Speaker 1: I think we're supposed to come, at least for me,
Speaker 1: coming away from this, I was like, Oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't really like this character, but I think she's
Speaker 1: she's frustrating, she's immature, but she's that we're all terrible
Speaker 1: at that age. And I think we're supposed to come
Speaker 1: away from this like thinking, Yes, she has potential to
Speaker 1: learn and grow, and that's what her mom wanted for her,
Speaker 1: to be the best version of herself. Yeah, just to
Speaker 1: kind of come into her own. You know, this is
Speaker 1: a coming of age story if you will. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we're supposed to just like take away, Wow,
Speaker 1: look how honest day portrayal this relationship and these relationships
Speaker 1: were in this movie. So that was my main takeaway
Speaker 1: from it. I loved it. My main takeaway from it
Speaker 1: was the mom Laurie Metcalt character, because we I just
Speaker 1: feel like moms are so underappreciated in culture and society.
Speaker 1: And when I turned thirty, something happened in my brain
Speaker 1: when two things became very important to me, my skin
Speaker 1: and my mom. What happened, But like I immediately like
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is about, like growing older
Speaker 1: and I don't have kids, but it just made me
Speaker 1: understand my mom in ways that I've just never understood
Speaker 1: her before. And I like love watching Ladybird come to
Speaker 1: understand her mom towards the end of the movie, you know,
Speaker 1: like like that's what it was, like so great about
Speaker 1: that it would have been like that's what I think
Speaker 1: was the redeeming quality of her character because you don't
Speaker 1: like her and you're not supposed to like her, but
Speaker 1: at least by the end, she becomes like this very apologetic,
Speaker 1: very grateful like kid who finally realizes like the emotional
Speaker 1: labor of her like being her mom. Like that that's
Speaker 1: what it was. It's like this heavy lifting to like
Speaker 1: love you got there there towards the end. It is
Speaker 1: like I had times like that with I mean, like
Speaker 1: we all see us in our mom's in this movie,
Speaker 1: but like the scene at the sink where Laura cass
Speaker 1: washing dishes and it's being very you know I'm not
Speaker 1: talking to you, and Ladybird is flipping the funk out
Speaker 1: Like I had so many moments of that with my
Speaker 1: mom where I would say something stupid or like lash
Speaker 1: out in some weird hormonal way at her, and then
Speaker 1: she would just shut down and then I would be like,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember the exact line of dialogue,
Speaker 1: but it really like hit me the second time, especially
Speaker 1: when when she was like, you don't have to you know,
Speaker 1: like we just talked to me, just talked to me,
Speaker 1: just talked. I was like, Fuck, I did that with
Speaker 1: my mom like every other day. Uh. Gregor growingg did
Speaker 1: such an amazing job of like finding these so specific
Speaker 1: moments that somehow like resonate on this huge level, like
Speaker 1: anytime they're at a store. And then oh, there's one
Speaker 1: of the things that I loved both viewings is when
Speaker 1: they go to look at the nice houses right after
Speaker 1: she too beautiful. Um yeah yeah. And then my thing
Speaker 1: with the with the movie. The first time I remember
Speaker 1: I saw it in theaters with my friend who grew
Speaker 1: up in Sacramento at that exact time, and so her
Speaker 1: gripes were all like sacramental related, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: what they were. But the things that I was like
Speaker 1: bummed out about the first time was I genuinely was
Speaker 1: mad at Ladybird for bailing on Julie. Yeah, but that
Speaker 1: means that it's just like, you know, the movie got
Speaker 1: a serious reaction out of me because I was like, what,
Speaker 1: like Julie didn't get like a good apology. That sucks.
Speaker 1: But again, that's just like a thought I had about
Speaker 1: the and then and then I did wish that that
Speaker 1: the relationship between Ladybird and then Danny, Danny right when
Speaker 1: he comes out of it. I wish that that, like
Speaker 1: you get a great moment and we and we see
Speaker 1: that their friends down the line. But I just I
Speaker 1: wish that that was like explored a little bit more. Same. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also it's like again it's so you can't watch
Speaker 1: this movie and not make it personal. But like I
Speaker 1: I had, I had a gay high school boyfriend that
Speaker 1: you know. There. I was like, there's there's so many
Speaker 1: like weird, cool moments you could go back to, but
Speaker 1: movies I would have taken a little bit less Timothy
Speaker 1: Shallow may Uh and just swapped out He's I mean,
Speaker 1: and that character is great. I like, it was so
Speaker 1: well written in terms of just like what a fuck
Speaker 1: he's got he's got Howard's in like that you know
Speaker 1: exactly who he is and and you even find out
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my dad has cancer and he's still
Speaker 1: the worst, which really speaks to how annoying he is.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, my main grand of the movie. The
Speaker 1: first time, I was like, I wish we got more Danny.
Speaker 1: I thought that that was like a cool relationship we
Speaker 1: didn't see. Yeah, Lady Bird does kind of redeem herself
Speaker 1: with her mom at the end, like you were saying, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: But I feel like I wanted more of a redemption
Speaker 1: with both Danny and her best friend Julie, because she
Speaker 1: does go back at the end, like right before prom,
Speaker 1: and we don't see her actually apologize verbally. Maybe she
Speaker 1: doesn't need to. Maybe their friendship is on such a
Speaker 1: level where she doesn't. Just her showing up and hanging
Speaker 1: out with her is enough. I don't know. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: like kind of working through this in real time. I
Speaker 1: do like that they reconciled. I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: wish that because the first time I saw the movie,
Speaker 1: I was like, she's funny, she's spunky, she's bold, she's
Speaker 1: like really outspoken, and I liked that about her. And
Speaker 1: then the second time around, when I was like paying
Speaker 1: more close attention, I was like, oh, she's kind of
Speaker 1: mean to her friend, and she's she is, but it
Speaker 1: made me, I know, I don't know, it just made
Speaker 1: me annoyed with her. And then she like makes that
Speaker 1: racist comment to her brother where she's basically implying that
Speaker 1: he only got into UC Berkeley because of like affirmative action,
Speaker 1: and he's just like, you're the worst, and and I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, she's a little piece of ship.
Speaker 1: But again, we all are at that time, so and
Speaker 1: that's I mean, I thought it was accurate. It is,
Speaker 1: it is, it is, And I think that's partially why
Speaker 1: she's so frustrating, because she is. And you know what
Speaker 1: I love the most is at the end of the
Speaker 1: movie when she's at that party and um, the guy
Speaker 1: asked her where she's from and she says and he
Speaker 1: doesn't really hear her, and she changes her answer to
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and I love that that she's still lying,
Speaker 1: like even because that's a theme throughout the movie that
Speaker 1: she lies about the house that she lives in, and
Speaker 1: like yeah. Yeah, she's a terrible person, which her friend
Speaker 1: Julie after she learns her lesson Justice for Julie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: justice for Julie. But like, I love that at the
Speaker 1: end she's still lying because it's this great reminder that
Speaker 1: change is slow and that you know, maybe at the
Speaker 1: end of the four years she'll be a different person.
Speaker 1: But her first party at college, she's still that. She's
Speaker 1: still Ladybird, She's still Christine. She's still not comfortable in
Speaker 1: this new role of she's not older, she's just in
Speaker 1: a different place, you know, which was really cool and
Speaker 1: it's cool to see her kind of figure that out
Speaker 1: in time because she I mean, and that is part
Speaker 1: of what I found frustrating about the character. And again
Speaker 1: it's like the more we talk about it, it's like
Speaker 1: it's not that doesn't mean that it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: that means it's really good because and I recognize this
Speaker 1: like behavior in you know, like girls they new in
Speaker 1: high school of like they'll try out a club and
Speaker 1: then if they're not immediately the center. Like that was
Speaker 1: like Ladybird wanted attention, and when she didn't get like
Speaker 1: a role she thought was sufficient for her, she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: funk off by and then moved on to the next thing,
Speaker 1: which is Jenna, and then moved on to the next
Speaker 1: Like she's just all, you know, just like a very
Speaker 1: teenage selfishness. And it's weird, I mean, because she also
Speaker 1: she is insecure in some way, like she is a
Speaker 1: very confident character, but there are some ways that yeah,
Speaker 1: Like this was something I remember feeling myself to, Like
Speaker 1: she was so confident but also very adamant about her
Speaker 1: own like mediocrity and was not really delusional in any
Speaker 1: way about Like she's like, yeah, my grades aren't good enough,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to figure it out, right, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: that we know of yet. That's such a great line.
Speaker 1: And and you know, like when her mom was like, oh,
Speaker 1: do you still like drama, She's like, no, I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm good at it. Like Ladybird won to find
Speaker 1: the easiest way to do everything. Yeah, yes, which you know,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of us is understandable. Yeah that's hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these are just very well written characters that we
Speaker 1: usually don't see on screen because especially female characters are
Speaker 1: such one dimensional, underdeveloped people who don't feel like real
Speaker 1: people that it is refreshing to see such dynamic characters
Speaker 1: in this movie. Yes, I agree, I love I want
Speaker 1: to talk about Julie. I think she's my favorite character.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about. We need to talk about
Speaker 1: Julie new movies starting to listen. So one of the
Speaker 1: things I want to say about her is that I
Speaker 1: really like that we get representation on screen of a
Speaker 1: young woman who is fat. We almost never see fat
Speaker 1: women in movies. Even of the female characters that we've
Speaker 1: talked about on this podcast who we love and we
Speaker 1: think are such like badass female characters, they're almost always
Speaker 1: like these unrealistically thin women. Hollywood is very guilty of
Speaker 1: portraying this like unrealistic standard of beauty that like no
Speaker 1: one can achieve and having their like badass, strong female
Speaker 1: protagonists and female characters still be very by Western standards,
Speaker 1: very beautiful and very thin. So I just really liked
Speaker 1: that we see a very lovable, good character, smart like
Speaker 1: she gets cast in the lead of the play even
Speaker 1: though she does not have that stand out of an
Speaker 1: audition like that was where I was like, she had
Speaker 1: a weird and lady bird. I thought had a pretty
Speaker 1: good audition, so too, it was extra as hell, but
Speaker 1: that same yeah, but just the fact that we see
Speaker 1: that representation I think is really great because we haven't
Speaker 1: talked that much about like kind of the body positivity
Speaker 1: movement on this podcast. Yeah, and I mean I feel
Speaker 1: like we don't talk about it a lot because we
Speaker 1: so rarely see other body types in any movie we can,
Speaker 1: which is also worth mentioning that we hardly ever see that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and kind of being to that point, I thought that
Speaker 1: the way that that was, I mean, that was in
Speaker 1: no way a focal point even of Julie's character really,
Speaker 1: but they're the few times that like Julie, like she
Speaker 1: says a few times like oh I feel so fat right,
Speaker 1: Like there's like a little comments and Ladybird never quite
Speaker 1: knows how to deal with it and respond and she'll
Speaker 1: be like me too, or like something like connected with
Speaker 1: with those moments too, of like when your friend expresses
Speaker 1: an insecurity and then you're like, oh, I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do with this. I'm just gonna say I
Speaker 1: feel the same way, even though, like, yeah, like because
Speaker 1: I've seen very early on they're looking through a magazine
Speaker 1: at the store where McGill works at, and um, they
Speaker 1: see like an ad of this like probably photoshopped model. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even today, all that ship is being photoshopped. Julie says,
Speaker 1: you know, why can't I look like that? I think
Speaker 1: Ladybird doesn't really respond or like, doesn't say anything that important.
Speaker 1: But then Ladybird reflects that same sentiment much later on
Speaker 1: in the movie when she's shopping for her prom dress
Speaker 1: and she comes out and there's address it's a little
Speaker 1: too tight, and you know, she's saying, like, why don't
Speaker 1: I look like the women in the magazines? Which is
Speaker 1: a bit on the dose, you know, But yeah, I
Speaker 1: do like those little moments where, you know, Julie, like
Speaker 1: you said, it expresses an insecurity, which, you know, again
Speaker 1: just a totally realistic thing for women of all ages
Speaker 1: to be insecure about. So I just, yeah, I just
Speaker 1: really liked that representation and that that was addressed in
Speaker 1: the movie. I would like to see more movies feature
Speaker 1: just a strong female lead that doesn't have that quote
Speaker 1: unquote ideal body shape. I'd like to see representation across
Speaker 1: the board of just you know, other shapes and sizes.
Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like we're quite there yet in Hollywood. I
Speaker 1: don't think so, but I it's on the horizon. I
Speaker 1: can already. I can feel it in my bones. It's coming.
Speaker 1: You know, when you see I really do. Like when
Speaker 1: you see more women directors, you see more women screenwriters,
Speaker 1: you see women really getting the means of production, like
Speaker 1: you know, like you have a Shonda Rhymes that exists,
Speaker 1: you have an Operah that exists, Oprah has a network,
Speaker 1: Like I don't see how in the next ten to
Speaker 1: twenty years, based on the way those women look, you know,
Speaker 1: and what they've already done, like that that work isn't
Speaker 1: pushed more. And like women like us who want to
Speaker 1: see ourselves represented on screen, even aniss ray with hard
Speaker 1: natural hair, like that's mind boggling to me, Like you
Speaker 1: don't see a lead with natural hair like ten years
Speaker 1: ago ever, you know, Like now it's everywhere. Now It's
Speaker 1: like I don't even know how to take care of
Speaker 1: my natural hair. Now, I'm like, oh my god, now
Speaker 1: it's a trending to figure it out. But it's like seriously,
Speaker 1: like I really I think it's I think it's only
Speaker 1: going to get better. Really, yeah, I hope. So I
Speaker 1: think it writes me happy. I feel uplifted. You guys
Speaker 1: don't agree. You don't think it's going to get better.
Speaker 1: I think so often we get caught in the mire
Speaker 1: of like where you're usually covering movies that are a
Speaker 1: little bit older, and it's so easy to just get
Speaker 1: bogged down with like Jesus Christ, we're given James Franco
Speaker 1: Golden Gloves. Okay, you know, Like, but it does seem
Speaker 1: like there is a system that is, if not being
Speaker 1: pushed all the way out, is at least being pushed
Speaker 1: to the side, which is I think the most promising
Speaker 1: thing is that system is seeing how financially like it's
Speaker 1: it can't last long like that that system find like
Speaker 1: like people aren't supporting movies that only have this or that,
Speaker 1: Like I think a movie like Black Panther, which I
Speaker 1: personally have been excited to see so ready, but the
Speaker 1: fact that that or or even like Ladybird, let's just
Speaker 1: usually the movie we're talking about, a movie like Ladybird
Speaker 1: that is financially successful, you know, like from the time
Speaker 1: when Bride'smaids was financially successful. Everything's about money in this industry.
Speaker 1: So it's just once they see that they're this structure
Speaker 1: that's built on these oppressive kind of ideas because only
Speaker 1: a handful of people are only so many people get
Speaker 1: to make these decisions when their bottom line isn't being
Speaker 1: because they can't find it, they can't finance. But people
Speaker 1: aren't putting people putting money anymore because they know they
Speaker 1: don't have to see something like that. They have to
Speaker 1: change or they die, which is fine. Some of them
Speaker 1: will go away, and some of them will wise up
Speaker 1: and like make movies with women and people of color
Speaker 1: and like put people or like even better, I hate
Speaker 1: having to like shove my way into like the person
Speaker 1: of powers, you know position. I'd rather just create my
Speaker 1: own thing and then you die naturally. You know. Competition
Speaker 1: is great in that way, you know, like when you're
Speaker 1: making something people want to see, Like I don't have
Speaker 1: to push my way to the table. I can make
Speaker 1: my own table and make my own film and make
Speaker 1: my own you know. And I think it's I think
Speaker 1: it's amazing. I think it's gonna be dope. And it
Speaker 1: was like all these different platforms, things are so much
Speaker 1: more accessible than they used to be with the studio
Speaker 1: system and all that. It sucks that for like the
Speaker 1: Hollywood studio system, the motivator for them is money and
Speaker 1: not showcasing marginalized voices like it's good, that's capitalist socialist
Speaker 1: Caitlin overright, So go get your plow, get a libertarian,
Speaker 1: libertarians own plows. That's just like a fun thing. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed pushing in the world. Um yeah, and when movies
Speaker 1: like Ladybird, I want to see how beyond its budget
Speaker 1: it it made. But like this movie did so well,
Speaker 1: and I was I was surprised that. And I think
Speaker 1: there's just like a cultural shift of a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. Do I think my brother, my little brother
Speaker 1: would go out of his way to see Ladybird? No, like,
Speaker 1: but he did, and he's seen it twice. I mean
Speaker 1: that has to do with the movie Past two. But
Speaker 1: but like it is cool that there is like a
Speaker 1: culture shift happening where you don't necessarily see Lady Bird
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, it's the girl movie. We're not
Speaker 1: going to go, but like, yeah, where it's like my yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad and my brother's old Ladybird and they just
Speaker 1: and I think unless they were like play me, I
Speaker 1: think I just thought they saw a movie, which is
Speaker 1: which they did. But I think ten years ago they
Speaker 1: would have been like, oh, yeah, we saw I can't
Speaker 1: believe I had to go see the girl movie. You know,
Speaker 1: do you know what that makes me think of When
Speaker 1: you say they saw a quote unquote girl movie and
Speaker 1: they are just talking about it like a normal movie.
Speaker 1: It makes me think of the me Too movement or
Speaker 1: just the sexual harassment culture in Hollywood that everyone's been
Speaker 1: talking about. About, how like dudes are just like, well,
Speaker 1: how are we supposed to talk to women? They're a person.
Speaker 1: Imagine talking to another guy, but that you might you know,
Speaker 1: and like ask like would you touch another guy if
Speaker 1: you didn't ask that person or didn't know if it
Speaker 1: was okay? You know, like the sexual attraction part is
Speaker 1: you know, one piece. But then also they're also a person.
Speaker 1: That's what I would like to say people that are confused.
Speaker 1: It's well, it's been shoved down everybody's throat in media
Speaker 1: and just culture in general that actually women aren't really people,
Speaker 1: their objects. So all these men who like don't know
Speaker 1: how to talk to women are like don't know how
Speaker 1: to treat them. It's because they've been spoon fed these
Speaker 1: ideas that like women are objects and that they're not
Speaker 1: real people and they don't have autonomy. So yeah, they're
Speaker 1: just like jiggling boobs sometimes they have a name. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they don't even Like you guys were talking about when
Speaker 1: you go back and watch old movies, It's true. When
Speaker 1: I go back and watch old movies, I'm like, holy
Speaker 1: sh and like even like recent past, like something that
Speaker 1: this movie didn't really address that that I mean, I
Speaker 1: just think that there wasn't time. But like I would
Speaker 1: be so interested, like what were the movies Ladybird and
Speaker 1: Julie were like seeing in two thousand two, because it
Speaker 1: had to have been a fucking nightmare, Like, because that's
Speaker 1: kind of I feel like the early two thousands was
Speaker 1: weirdly especially bad in the ways that women are projecting.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of I think plugging in my time at
Speaker 1: working in the Playboy archives as a litmus test for that.
Speaker 1: But like the early two thousand was especially pushing, like
Speaker 1: a insane body type on the world. Um that's less
Speaker 1: realistic than almost any other era I can think of.
Speaker 1: So I kind of wish I knew, Like I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: because they don't talk about movies. Music is discussed and
Speaker 1: the soundtrack is like awesome. I like. Also, to date,
Speaker 1: Lady Bird has practically quadrupled it's budget ten million budget.
Speaker 1: It's made thirty nine point one million. That's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's nowhere near what a blockbuster gets, which
Speaker 1: is upsetting, but people are buying tickets to go saying
Speaker 1: it's a good exciting. Another thing I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about is I love how like sex positive that household is. Yes,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, it's really cool to see. We
Speaker 1: almost never seen that. And I loved how when she
Speaker 1: asked her mom when it's a good time to have sex? Yeah? Mom?
Speaker 1: What she says, she has a little She's like sex, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and she says truthfully no because she hadn't had sex
Speaker 1: yet at that point. And then her mom says, I
Speaker 1: say college. And then she's like, and make sure you
Speaker 1: use protection like we talked about, which was implying that
Speaker 1: they've already had the sex talk, like if you're going
Speaker 1: to do it, just like you know, use protection, make
Speaker 1: sure you're ready, all that stuff. There's that conversation which
Speaker 1: I really loved. I really liked. I think it's earlier
Speaker 1: on in the movie. But um, ladybirds, mom and dad
Speaker 1: are like in the bathroom and my mom says, like,
Speaker 1: do you think Miguel and Shelley have sex on the
Speaker 1: pull up cad. He was like, oh yeah, and they
Speaker 1: laughed about it like I love it so like, because
Speaker 1: I don't know how religious the family is, I think
Speaker 1: that because Ladybird goes to an all Catholic high school.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm assuming that because they addressed that to you,
Speaker 1: that they said that Miguel saw someone stabbed in public school,
Speaker 1: and so god, I remember that argument against like public school.
Speaker 1: I just like, someone got stabbed once, and it's like so,
Speaker 1: I guess my point was I assumed that the family
Speaker 1: was at least religious enough to send their kid to
Speaker 1: a religious school, but maybe not. Either way. The fact
Speaker 1: that they that it was like a pretty sex positive household, Um,
Speaker 1: did either of you grow up in like households like that,
Speaker 1: very religious households? No, like sex positive, not at all
Speaker 1: sex negative. My mom was actually for as liberal as
Speaker 1: she is. My mom is, or at least was at
Speaker 1: the time, not so progressive about sex. Now. I talked
Speaker 1: to her all the time about raw dog and dudes. No,
Speaker 1: not really, I call your mother speaking. I call my mom.
Speaker 1: You know what, maybe I'm going to regret the sentence
Speaker 1: of it. I call my mom like basically anytime I
Speaker 1: have a new sex partner of Like, Mom, can I
Speaker 1: send you pit because like a dream world, I can
Speaker 1: never I'm married and I can't. Really my mom is
Speaker 1: so like if you go home with your husband, does
Speaker 1: she make you sleep in separate bedrooms? We sleep in
Speaker 1: the same bedroom. But like it's like I don't even it,
Speaker 1: just doesn't want to hear it. Like she doesn't believe
Speaker 1: in like birth control, like for married couples, Like she
Speaker 1: thinks like she's that, like she thinks we should be
Speaker 1: having kids already. Whish. I'm just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: my mom. My mom was so sex positive to the
Speaker 1: point where I like she kind of like fucked me
Speaker 1: up in the reverse way where there were multiple times
Speaker 1: in high school I lost my virginity. I mean, I
Speaker 1: talk about all the fucking time I do, I do,
Speaker 1: I do, I do a whole fucking chow. But but
Speaker 1: but all I had to say my mom approached me
Speaker 1: several times before I lost my virginia and she was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: you haven't lost your virginia? Are you sick? Like are
Speaker 1: you Yeah? She was like, are you not doing it right?
Speaker 1: Like why? Because she loved my mom love all of
Speaker 1: my high school boyfriends to the point of like, are
Speaker 1: you hitting on them? And she was like you should, yeah,
Speaker 1: go for it, you know. And she but she was
Speaker 1: also great with like she brought me to the doctor.
Speaker 1: Anytime I would start dating someone, she would bring me
Speaker 1: to a doctor to kind of just you know, remind
Speaker 1: me that I could have sex. But she was I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think my mom was like, Jamie, why
Speaker 1: aren't you like, oh wild little slat. I was like,
Speaker 1: I actually like reading to read. Okay, at the time,
Speaker 1: I wasn't a reading slut, but now I'm a reading slut.
Speaker 1: I'm not great. Uh yeah, So I feel I feel
Speaker 1: lucky to have grown up in a household like that.
Speaker 1: And then my dad, I think, sort of like Ladybird's dad,
Speaker 1: uh was not. I mean, it would have been weird
Speaker 1: if he was just like, you haven't sex, what's going on?
Speaker 1: But he was like tolerant and cool and nice about it.
Speaker 1: And as was her mom, which I think is really
Speaker 1: the what Lady Bird and her mom do fight about,
Speaker 1: and then what they don't fight about, I think is
Speaker 1: really telling of both of their characters as well, because
Speaker 1: you've seen a million times in movies, and then also
Speaker 1: our real lives of being really scared to approach your
Speaker 1: mom about sex stuff, and you know, and fear of
Speaker 1: her judging you and being called a slut and things
Speaker 1: like that. But the fact that no judgment has passed
Speaker 1: in their conversation about sex, and the fact that they
Speaker 1: don't fight about it, whereas they fight about all kinds
Speaker 1: of other stuff. But the fact that no shame is
Speaker 1: attached to Ladybird potentially having sex, I thought was really
Speaker 1: awesome to see. I wonder if that's California. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you know, like you being from rural Pennsylvania, like there's
Speaker 1: no way sex negative, Like I'm from a hate I'm Haitian,
Speaker 1: I was born in Haiti, Like I'm from a very
Speaker 1: immigrant background. Like that's very common for you know, parents
Speaker 1: in those kinds of backgrounds to not be sex positive.
Speaker 1: So but the people that I meet from California, particularly
Speaker 1: San Francisco, of course, But like I'm imagining even play
Speaker 1: is like Sacramento. I'm wondering if it is a little
Speaker 1: bit more open and a little bit more there's more
Speaker 1: education and people are more laid back about young people
Speaker 1: having sex, not even like laid back, because there's no
Speaker 1: reason to be bananas about it, just more understanding. I
Speaker 1: guess accepting people because I thought that same California thing
Speaker 1: when we see how chill the nuns are. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: these are some California nus. They're unborgettable. You did not
Speaker 1: just oh my god, man, I man shout out to
Speaker 1: the nuns having fun calendar Nuns. You ever have the
Speaker 1: nuns having fun calendar? Everyone? Oh dude, yeah. For my
Speaker 1: aunt is like really into the duns having fun calendar.
Speaker 1: I thought that was making a joke. No check no,
Speaker 1: check it out, like if you it's one of the
Speaker 1: better Google image searches. You can be nuns having fun.
Speaker 1: They're doing all sorts of stuff. They're they're at the beach,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're climbing a I have a very specific
Speaker 1: image of a bunch of nuns in a tree. Just
Speaker 1: smile and you're like, great, this is they're having fun. Anyways,
Speaker 1: the nuns are very chill in this movie, yes, which
Speaker 1: I thought was a fun choice of the things that
Speaker 1: you would assume in like a coming of age movie
Speaker 1: would provide the most resistance. Kind of don't in this
Speaker 1: movie where I you know, when it opened at a
Speaker 1: religious school, I'm like, oh, there's going to be some
Speaker 1: religion struggle in this, but that's not really where the
Speaker 1: movie chooses to go um, which I thought was like
Speaker 1: cool and smart. Yeah, the non representation in cinema is like,
Speaker 1: you know these well, my nun representation as sisters, that's
Speaker 1: all I've ever seen. And I'm just like, nuns are
Speaker 1: always portrayed awesome and like their lives are awesome, And
Speaker 1: I almost wonder if it's because they don't have to
Speaker 1: men don't have to be attracted to them, so they
Speaker 1: don't have to be represent it as anything but fun
Speaker 1: and cool and care for you because they love one man.
Speaker 1: And uh. Doubt my favorite movie of all time. It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. I've seen Doubts so many. I
Speaker 1: don't know why. It speaks to ye dark. It's very dark.
Speaker 1: I watched it a couple of times a year. It
Speaker 1: is in your head. It's it's an actor's film. I
Speaker 1: love it. It's all five everyone across the board. Beautiful work.
Speaker 1: It is beautiful acting in that film. Doubt passes the
Speaker 1: Bechdel test easy, easy, because it's like Amy Adams and
Speaker 1: Meryl Street design the word doubt back and forth. Doubt.
Speaker 1: I got doubt. But don't doubt they have doubt in
Speaker 1: men they have Well, yeah, I mean the job will
Speaker 1: that passing the Bechtel test. We're going to talk about doubt.
Speaker 1: We'll do the episode that's going to be a five
Speaker 1: hour barn burner of a beck song cast episode. Is
Speaker 1: because I feel like I talked about doubting every Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. Dot is become our new Titanic almost although yeah,
Speaker 1: we really talk about Titanic a lot. It's good taste.
Speaker 1: As you can tell that it does. It's because she
Speaker 1: talks to her mom. Titanic fair is way better than
Speaker 1: you would think on almost every really trying to think
Speaker 1: of what conversations has she have had that word about
Speaker 1: her husband? Well, and then also at the beginning, it's
Speaker 1: like the old lady and her granddaughter granddaughter talk. Kathy
Speaker 1: Bates talks to other women there. So I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not not the best, but it does weigh better than
Speaker 1: you think. Back to Ladybird though, I couldn't help but
Speaker 1: notice how many people you see crying in this movie,
Speaker 1: and how several of them are men, Because you see
Speaker 1: Danny crying, you see that priest crying, who's like directing
Speaker 1: the school musical God, that was what a beautiful tragic character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish you maybe found out a little well. So
Speaker 1: you see a scene where he's making to Ladybird's mom
Speaker 1: in the psychiatric hospital, and you don't know exactly what's
Speaker 1: going on, except you can kind of assume that he
Speaker 1: is probably still grieving from the death of his son
Speaker 1: and depressed. And I felt so like whenever she's like,
Speaker 1: do you have a support system and he's like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean, Like, do you have anyone you can
Speaker 1: talk to when you feel this way? And he said no,
Speaker 1: not really, I was like, Oh, my heart is breaking
Speaker 1: for this man. And again it's just like the writing
Speaker 1: of this movie is so good. Is we barely see
Speaker 1: that character and he still we still have such a
Speaker 1: strong emotional response to it. And it's really funny line too,
Speaker 1: after after the drama show and then he's like they
Speaker 1: didn't understand. It reminded me in my high school theater
Speaker 1: director to mental health is addressed again whenever Ladybird goes
Speaker 1: into Julie's house before they go to prom, and Julie
Speaker 1: is just crying and she's like, what's happening? Why are
Speaker 1: you crying? And she's like I'm just crying and she's
Speaker 1: like what, and she's like, some people just aren't built happy.
Speaker 1: And I was like, and I think that they dress
Speaker 1: it with the father character too, Oh yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: he's on antidepressant. He's an antidepressant, and then Lady Ver,
Speaker 1: his mom is sensitive to it until sometimes she'll just
Speaker 1: use it as sort of like an argument chip of
Speaker 1: like your father is depressed, and stop, so stop being
Speaker 1: such a fucking bummer, Like yeah, but I thought that
Speaker 1: that was interesting too, of like, yeah, I guess we
Speaker 1: do see like men dealing with I actually missed the
Speaker 1: Julie being depressed part because she wasn't going to go
Speaker 1: to prom, so I thought she was crying about that
Speaker 1: and just didn't want to admit that. I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: what that moment. That's what I thought that moment was interesting.
Speaker 1: I interpreted it because of her I think that that's
Speaker 1: easy to assume. But then when she says, you know,
Speaker 1: some people just aren't built happy, I just I thought
Speaker 1: she was maybe just having sort of a depressive episode,
Speaker 1: and but I don't know, Yeah, maybe you're right. And
Speaker 1: they got a prown together, yeah, and then they and
Speaker 1: they do have a really nice time, and if she
Speaker 1: had been depressed, I hope A Ladybird helped kind of
Speaker 1: alleviate that for at least a little while. Did you
Speaker 1: did you see the picture that was sort of like
Speaker 1: circulated around of Greta growing directing that scene. I think so, yeah,
Speaker 1: she were she wore a prom dress to direct that.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's so nice. I wonder if she's like
Speaker 1: super like weird girl. Well, granted Garwig is, because I personally,
Speaker 1: I mean her most. I would say Frances Hall was
Speaker 1: her big thing. And I cannot stand Frances Hall. I
Speaker 1: didn't get it. Yeah, I'm like, who was this? What's
Speaker 1: going on? Who was that movie before? And and I
Speaker 1: couldn't stand her character and it I was like, what
Speaker 1: is she doing? She's the whole dancing in the street
Speaker 1: vibe to France. F Oh, I didn't. I think I
Speaker 1: only watched the first twenty five minutes of it and
Speaker 1: then we never went back to it. And that that
Speaker 1: was really my only experience of Greta Gerwick prior to
Speaker 1: knowing that she had made this movie. Like I knew
Speaker 1: who she was, Like she's randomly in the JACKIEO biopic
Speaker 1: for some reason, like so like I knew she was,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, the Francis Holly, I don't
Speaker 1: want to see this. But it turns out that she
Speaker 1: is better than friends, like it was just it was
Speaker 1: exciting and now I'm fully teamed credit. Actually, I think
Speaker 1: she's brilliant. I would love to meet her one day.
Speaker 1: I hope she is weird. I always she's got it
Speaker 1: if you want to come on the podcast to Velvet. Sorry,
Speaker 1: sorry about friends, I said about Francis, HA, when you
Speaker 1: put out your art, that's what happens. Yeah. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's people you can't imagine. There's many, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's people out there who don't even like the
Speaker 1: Bechdel cast. So they talked about doubt too much main
Speaker 1: criticism and also it's very impressive given the sheer number
Speaker 1: of characters we see in this movie, of how every
Speaker 1: character has their moment pretty much. There wasn't like there
Speaker 1: wasn't the symptom of too many characters and then we
Speaker 1: just lose some, although I do wish we'd see more.
Speaker 1: N You guys love this character. I loved I'm in Vivlin.
Speaker 1: I do definitely hate Timothy chardon Ay. I like him
Speaker 1: as an actor. I hate his character, but even he
Speaker 1: gets a moment too of like he has a little
Speaker 1: bit of depth, and you know, he's like he's a
Speaker 1: piece of ship and as shitty the Ladybird, but Ladybird's
Speaker 1: kind of shitty, and and he has a sick dad,
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, I don't know. The scene
Speaker 1: where she loses her virginity to him and then she
Speaker 1: thinks that he has also lost his virginity to her,
Speaker 1: and she's like, wow, we took each other's flowers and
Speaker 1: he's like, nah, I've had sex with maybe six other people.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like shut up quipping so cool,
Speaker 1: and then that and she's like, how could you not
Speaker 1: even know if it's six people? I've definitely like said
Speaker 1: that when I was like younger to be like how
Speaker 1: do you not know the exact number and order? What's
Speaker 1: wrong with you? But that really upsets her because she says,
Speaker 1: like I thought we were like sharing the experien It's
Speaker 1: like this my whole experience or my perception. This is
Speaker 1: completely wrong. And then the scene right after that, her
Speaker 1: mom picks her up and she on the verge of tears,
Speaker 1: and her mom's like, what's wrong, and then she just
Speaker 1: kind of sinks into her mom's embrace, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you see this really tender moment between these two characters
Speaker 1: who you're usually seeing fighting, but I like the balance
Speaker 1: of them fighting but then also having like warm, tender
Speaker 1: moments like that is just like, really, I don't know
Speaker 1: it just it's my robot heart that usually doesn't respond
Speaker 1: emotionally to things unless it's padding to inter Paddington two,
Speaker 1: I really felt something there and I didn't do has
Speaker 1: a perfect score and written to too is the best movie.
Speaker 1: I haven't padding to everyone who can't see it. Kaitlin
Speaker 1: just gave me a look. I've never known you to
Speaker 1: have such a strong and you have strong opinions on
Speaker 1: a lot of things, but nothing is stronger than padding to.
Speaker 1: It's it's a live action except the bear Paddington. Paddington
Speaker 1: Bear is c g I. The first movie is terrific.
Speaker 1: The second movie is even better. It's it's so good
Speaker 1: it is hard to believe, especially because the movies are
Speaker 1: not marketed well because it's their children and family movies.
Speaker 1: So I won't get into it. Just know that Paddington
Speaker 1: two is the best movie of this century. So that's all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the story? Like, quick, quick, like, what is it about?
Speaker 1: Paddington is a bear who lives in Peru. He gets
Speaker 1: displaced by an earthquake. He has to move to London.
Speaker 1: This is Paddington one. He's looking for a family to
Speaker 1: take him in. And then this family finds him. The
Speaker 1: father is like, oh, a bear. No, and mom is like, no,
Speaker 1: we have to help this bear. It's an allegory for
Speaker 1: immigration and racism and it's so good. And then they
Speaker 1: take him in and they try to help him find
Speaker 1: this explorer and they won't spoil it. And then Paddington two,
Speaker 1: he's in the family. Now he gets wrongfully accused of
Speaker 1: a crime. Hugh Grant gives the performance of a lifetime. Wow,
Speaker 1: this is an epic movie. Yes, it's great. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so check out Paddington and Paddington Too, hand Ladybirds and
Speaker 1: The Shape of Water with My new boyfriend fishes. But
Speaker 1: the movie is pretty good. It's a good love story.
Speaker 1: But you go for the hot fish. The fish is hot,
Speaker 1: so yeah. I mean, there's no there's truly no shortage
Speaker 1: of good movies right now. Don't see the post. Don't
Speaker 1: see that, really, skip the post. Oh no, but that
Speaker 1: screenwriter is like a first time writer and she's so cool,
Speaker 1: and I think that's I think that Steven Spielberg kind
Speaker 1: of biffs it up by yeah, just by with a
Speaker 1: bunch of just like the the story is not the problem.
Speaker 1: It's just like the way it's shot. It's so oscar
Speaker 1: baby in the way it looks, and you know, I
Speaker 1: haven't heard it's just you know, one of the reasons
Speaker 1: why I haven't gone to see it is because no
Speaker 1: one is talking about it, Like I haven't heard any
Speaker 1: would be like, you gotta go see the posts because
Speaker 1: you don't. Tania amazing, no way, so good. Yeah, check
Speaker 1: out our Eitania Patreon episode coming out. Um. One last
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to say about Ladybird is that it's
Speaker 1: a very white movie. You do see two people of
Speaker 1: color characters, and Miguel and Shelly. The fact that those
Speaker 1: characters are sort of to me, they felt sidelined. It
Speaker 1: was kind of crazy that, you know, this is a
Speaker 1: movie about Ladybird and her home life and her like
Speaker 1: year leading up to leaving her family. The fact that
Speaker 1: those are the two characters that we see the like
Speaker 1: least of screen time wise, and they feel the least developed,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I just feel, like I mentioned
Speaker 1: this before, I just wish we had seen more of
Speaker 1: those characters. I mean, I do think they were sidelined
Speaker 1: and I don't think they were cast really great. They
Speaker 1: didn't have like really great like even when they were
Speaker 1: on camera, they didn't really shine to me. So I thought,
Speaker 1: I am ad that maybe that was part of the problem,
Speaker 1: like you don't really want to put them in more
Speaker 1: because they're not really owning the scenes that they're in. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought for such a white movie to like,
Speaker 1: I I didn't feel like it was that bad. Like
Speaker 1: I really felt like, because it is it's a movie
Speaker 1: about a white girl and her mother and their relationship.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was about these characters. And I
Speaker 1: think the way that they handled the race, the different
Speaker 1: races is great because they didn't put them in scenes
Speaker 1: and then make jokes about their race or you know,
Speaker 1: or like the punchline isn't their race, you know? Or like,
Speaker 1: And then the one time it does come up, Lady
Speaker 1: Bird's immediately told the fun and they don't ignore it either.
Speaker 1: They totally call out that they're different races. But it's
Speaker 1: not like they don't make fun of it. They don't.
Speaker 1: It's like it's it's well handled for this film. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the demographics of Sacramento that was
Speaker 1: part of this, Like this is a very white movie,
Speaker 1: but it's a period piece in a very specific place,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's what it would have looked like. I'm
Speaker 1: not totally sure, though. I was looking like you know
Speaker 1: too that as at West Game all. Does anyone have
Speaker 1: anything else you want to say about labor? I think
Speaker 1: you just see Ladybird and it's a great movie. You
Speaker 1: guys haven't seen it. It's it's like if you want
Speaker 1: good storytelling, great acting by Laurie Metcalfe, and it's like
Speaker 1: sweet and fun and easy to watch and like you
Speaker 1: might cry at the end, maybe yeah. I had like
Speaker 1: five different moments of you know, like a two second
Speaker 1: cry where you're like yeah and then it's over. I
Speaker 1: had a bunch of those. My cry was when they're
Speaker 1: dropping Ladybird off at the airport and her mother refuses
Speaker 1: to go out and say goodbye to her or even
Speaker 1: look at her, and then she drives around the block
Speaker 1: and you know, runs into the dad's arms crying. She's
Speaker 1: gonna like, yeah, I thought that was beautiful. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: really was. Yeah. So, as we alluded to earlier, this
Speaker 1: movie for sure passes the Bechdel test. Ladybird's talking to
Speaker 1: her mom, she's talking to Julie, she's talking to Jenna,
Speaker 1: she talks to Shelley, talks to the cool nuns, nuns,
Speaker 1: all kinds of characters, talks to her. She talks to
Speaker 1: her guidance counselor wasn't her guidance counselor a black woman? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we ever it's very quick scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we ever learned her name. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if I seen technically passes got it.
Speaker 1: But that was a fun scene of like Lady Bears like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I have the grades to get
Speaker 1: into a good school, and she like, last you do not,
Speaker 1: so you know. Yeah. So they're often talking about school
Speaker 1: or Sacramento or applying to colleges and all kinds of
Speaker 1: stuff that are not about boys. It's amazing, but they
Speaker 1: also do talk about boys, which is high school. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's also a sweet moment in the pool with Jenna
Speaker 1: when Ladybird asked her what she wants to do in
Speaker 1: Jenna's as she wants to be a mom, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, I didn't see coming. That was sweet.
Speaker 1: There's oh. I guess we didn't really have time to
Speaker 1: talk about the Jenna character, but I thought that she
Speaker 1: was another small character who is serviced pretty well by
Speaker 1: this movie. I agree, where when we first see her,
Speaker 1: it's like almost draw the conclusion of how the character
Speaker 1: will be treated, which is like, oh, she's going to
Speaker 1: be you know, villainized or whatever, and she is a
Speaker 1: little bit and you know, and you see in the
Speaker 1: way high school girls sometimes are, like, you see what
Speaker 1: Jenna is going for, but then you do see those
Speaker 1: like human moments, and I agree. And she's actually the
Speaker 1: one who's hurt at the end of the movie because
Speaker 1: Ladybird lies to her about where she and she says
Speaker 1: something like, I don't even I can't even begin to
Speaker 1: understand why someone would lie about that. So you could
Speaker 1: see that Jenna was genuinely in it for the friendship
Speaker 1: and they weren't friends anymore because of Ladybird's being a
Speaker 1: stupid liar. R so I heard such she is. But
Speaker 1: Gretta does an excellent job at like putting layers into
Speaker 1: these characters for sure. I also liked that scene between
Speaker 1: Ladybird and Julie where Julie's like, Jenna is a moron.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, she's an ap calculu. She's like she's
Speaker 1: a moron in a deeper sense. I also loved the
Speaker 1: portrayal of a happy marriage that was financially unstable, you know,
Speaker 1: like I was like the stressors of life, and yet
Speaker 1: they managed to keep their marriage happy, which I like
Speaker 1: and that much, and speaking to like the beta when
Speaker 1: we've called them Beta Daddy at this point. But but
Speaker 1: seeing a man in a marriage and is in the
Speaker 1: beta role and is you know, quote unquote emasculated in
Speaker 1: a sense when he can't find a job and he
Speaker 1: is depressed. But I think when we see characters like that,
Speaker 1: especially male characters, a lot um, it's like we're supposed
Speaker 1: to believe, like and it's killing him. She wants to
Speaker 1: be the alpha so bad, but this character doesn't. And
Speaker 1: it's totally seems very much like Lori's. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't remember the name of her character, Marian. He's very
Speaker 1: much Marian's emotional support and you can tell that she
Speaker 1: respects him very much for that which I loved to
Speaker 1: see a lot of troops that you see over and
Speaker 1: over again in mainstream Hollywood movies are totally subverted in
Speaker 1: this movie and it's just like really awesome to see.
Speaker 1: With that, let us rate the movie on our nipple
Speaker 1: scale zero to five nipples. We rate based on its
Speaker 1: portrayal of women. I'm gonna give five nipples, I agree to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I give it five nipples. Yeah, five nipples never happened.
Speaker 1: The characterization is really great, and yeah, I love a
Speaker 1: flawed female protagonist. We don't get to see flawed female
Speaker 1: protagonists enough, and there are a number of movies out
Speaker 1: right now with very flawed female protagonists that even though
Speaker 1: they're lying and doing you know, stuff that's fucked up,
Speaker 1: the writing is there and you can see yourself in it.
Speaker 1: Like watching this movie as a personal experience and I look, well, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. Guys, I had so much fun talking about
Speaker 1: this movie. Where can people find you online? Do you
Speaker 1: have anything you'd like to plug? Yes? You can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at I'm Charlotte Face, and then also
Speaker 1: on Instagram I'm Charlotte face and I run a show
Speaker 1: called Velvet where first Friday of every month at Copper
Speaker 1: Still in Koreatown at eight thirty. It's a free show.
Speaker 1: It's always great lineups and it's always a fun time.
Speaker 1: And I host Special. It's going to be Thursday, February
Speaker 1: fift at eight pm at Lyric Hyperion. Kate Berland is
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, and it's it's called special because
Speaker 1: we're doing long sets. You're like seeing material that they
Speaker 1: would do if they had a special. Awesome. If you
Speaker 1: love long sets of stand up com ny, check that out.
Speaker 1: You can follow the Bacte Cast on all the social media.
Speaker 1: You can go to well, you should rate and review
Speaker 1: us on iTunes, and you should subscribe to our Patreon
Speaker 1: ITTI like five dollars a month and you get to
Speaker 1: bonus episodes every month of the Battle Cast. This month
Speaker 1: you get Ionia and the Disaster Artists Wow Bio February. Also,
Speaker 1: you should come to our live show. Oh yeah, what's up?
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, California? Ever heard of it? Yeah? If you
Speaker 1: live there or near there, we have a live show
Speaker 1: on February twelve at eight thirty at the Nerdest show
Speaker 1: Room at melt On Comic I'm so excited. We're doing
Speaker 1: the Notebook Baby with past guests from our Butch casting
Speaker 1: the Sundance episode. Caitlyn Gill will be there, will be there.
Speaker 1: She's awesome, she's so funny. It's gonna be a great
Speaker 1: live show. Come on down. Tickets are ten dollars and
Speaker 1: we're going to have our brand new merch for sale there,
Speaker 1: so merch Alert, gonna save on shipping. Yeah, get those stickers,
Speaker 1: get some buttons, air save. Will be there. I want
Speaker 1: to meet Yeah, and you can meet us to our
Speaker 1: you know, your favorite celebrities, Caitlin and Jamie will be
Speaker 1: there for you to meet and talk to. Our backup
Speaker 1: dancers will be there. You've never heard our backup dancers before,
Speaker 1: but they're always here. They're always dancing quietly. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: come on dostat. Tickets are on sale. You can go
Speaker 1: to bechdel cast dot com slash live and get your
Speaker 1: tickets and we'll see you there. You see you there.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Thanks for being here, Charlotte. Have a
Speaker 1: great time everyone, and goodbye by