1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. On Monday, August eighth, 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: the FBI agents entered former President Donald Trump's Marilago estate 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: in Florida and seized what they determined were classified documents. 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: The raid was unprecedented in one hundred and fourteen year 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: history the FBI. They have never gone after a former 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: president of the States. I have many questions about the 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: raid that are still unanswered. Was the raid politically motivated? 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: What documents did President Trump have in his possession that 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: the FBI could have requested he give back? Why did 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: they feel the need to get a search warrant? Why 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: did they take his passports? What actions can Congress take 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: as a body of oversight, and frankly, that really require 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: thirty agents to go into a place that the President 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: wasn't even at here To help answer these questions and 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: help us better understand what's next, I'm really pleased to 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick. He represents Pennsylvania's first 17 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: congressional district. Prior to work in Congress, he spent fourteen 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: years serving our country as both an FBI special agent 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: and federal prosecutor. Brian, welcome and thank you for joining 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: me on News World. Thank you, mister speaker pleasure. I 21 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: really want to have you on because you come from 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: an FBI background, but you're also a member of Congress, 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: so I'm hoping your unique experience will help understand this 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: a little better before we dive in, do you mind 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: just spending a few minutes on your background as both 26 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: an FBI agent and your work as a federal prosecutor. Sure, 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: so you know I went to Quantico. I was at 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: Quantico at the one year anniversary of nine to eleven 29 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: and was assigned first to New York City. That was 30 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: my first domestic assignment. My last domestic assignment was in 31 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and in between I spent a lot of 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: time overseas throughout Europe and Africa and Asia and the 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: Middle East, working out of what they call legal attests 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: or leguatz. Spent some time in headquarters in the Public 35 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: Corruption Unit. And regarding my federal prosecutor experience, if you're 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: a lawyer in the FBI, you can cross designate as 37 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: a special assistant US attorney, and I did that twice, 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: once in my hometown of Philadelphia and the Eastern District 39 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, and also in the Eastern districts of Virginia 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: and Alexandre Wow. Okay, so you have a unique perspective 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: from the rest of us. On the Monday, August eighth, 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: Rade in maril Argo. What was your initial thoughts when 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: you first heard about it. My initial reaction was shocked 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: because I know what goes into a normal search warrant. 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: This was an unprecedented action, an unprecedented action that will 46 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: require unprecedented justification. That's a very, very high bar. So 47 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: I've tried to strike a reasonable tone on this neop 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: because I think that's important that nobody get out in 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: front of their skis on this because the entire situation 50 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: is going to be answered. I believe in one document, 51 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: and that's the affidavita for probable cause. That being said, 52 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: the bar is extraordinarily high of what needs to be 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: contained in that affidavita to justify the they conducted. Because 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: from an evidence gathering standpoint, there's a range of options 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: available to agents. On the most conservative end of the 56 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: continuum is the passive service of a subpoena with a 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: future production date, and the most extreme invasive example is 58 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: what happened the dynamic execution of a search warrant. There's 59 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot of things you can do in between there 60 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: along the continuum that are much more passive and don't 61 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: engage in the invasive activity of a search warrant. For example, 62 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: there's something called a fourth with subpoena that I've executed on. 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: It's a subpoena that you serve at the door, but 64 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: there's not a future production date. You demand production then 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: and there, but you never enter the premises. So there 66 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: were a lot of tools at the disposal of both 67 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: the Bureau and DOJ. So what that search warrant is 68 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: going to have to entail is the most extraordinary circumstances 69 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: that justified the most extraordinary invasive evidence collection technique. So 70 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: that's really what I'm looking for. And the DOJ is 71 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: asking that this affidavit and remain under seal to no surprise. 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: Typically affidavits do remain under seal until there's a complaint 73 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: or an indictment filed in a case. But this is 74 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: very different. This is a case of first impression. This 75 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: is the first time in American history it's ever happened, 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: so it's got to be treated differently, and I think 77 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: at the very least new they can bring it into 78 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: the skiff and present it to those of us on 79 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: the House Intelligence Committee. I'm curioshed, but never having served 80 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: in the FBI, I don't understand some of the internal culture. 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: Why would you send thirty agents? So again, the affidavit 82 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: will detail this. I mean normally when you have a 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: white collar crime type investigation. Taking it out of this 84 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: situation for a second, if we were arresting somebody for 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: white collar crime violation, no criminal history, you wouldn't execute 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: a rest warrant. You'd call their lawyer, you'd have them 87 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: self surrender, and you'd go through the processing. Certain circumstances 88 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: dictate a higher stakes type of action. I want to 89 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: see the justification here and to answer your question, why 90 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: would you need thirty people? That's a hard thing to 91 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: answer because the number of people you need to execute 92 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: a search warrant depends on the size of the place 93 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: you are, the sophistication of what you're looking for. Do 94 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: you need evidence specialists. Do you need attorneys that are 95 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: sifting for attorney client privilege? Do you need people mirroring 96 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,559 Speaker 1: hard drives? In which case you need technical personnel. That's 97 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: what determines how many people you need. But I will 98 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: say one of the questions that I will have when 99 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: I look at this Affidavid, when it's presented to us, 100 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: is you know, as far as the level of precision 101 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: that would be needed to execute a warrant this sensitive, 102 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: you'd have to have somebody providing specific information as to 103 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the items to be sees, the places to be searched, 104 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: and that those items are in that location right then 105 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: and there. That requires constant, fresh, updated reporting to the Bureau. 106 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: But if it took them nine hours, that means either 107 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: one of two things. Either their probable cause was not 108 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: what they thought it was because they weren't given precise 109 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: information as to what it was and where it was, 110 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: or the amount of documents that were authorized by the 111 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: warrant were very voluminous. But again, all that's going to 112 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: be contained in the search warrant probable cause affidavit. We 113 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I noticed in the initial listing of things 114 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: they took, they had things like a cocktail, napkin, I mean, 115 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: apparently personal pictures, you know, the letter from President Obama 116 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: to President Trump, which apparently was opened and read by 117 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: an FBI agent. To me, it was as though the 118 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: entry point may have been looking for one set of things, 119 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: but in fact they were sort of vacuum cleaning the 120 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: whole place to see whether or not they'd find something 121 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: that they could go after. Yeah, again, we really need 122 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: to see that, probably cause affidavit nude. It's going to 123 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: answer all of our questions. There's a lot of speculation 124 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: going on here. If what you're saying is true, that's 125 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: very troubling, there's no question about it. And moreover, if 126 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: there were this apex type classified information. So as you know, 127 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: there's different levels of classification. CSSCI is the highest, but 128 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: then there's the Sensitive Access Program that's the apex of 129 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: classification is typically limited to nuclear type information or covert operations. 130 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: If that was there and there was no other way 131 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: to get it, then the search warrant should have been 132 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: very limited to that information, not photologs and letters between 133 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: former presidents. So again this is all the reason why 134 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: we need to see that affidavit. It's going to answer 135 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: all the questions. There's apparently Supreme Court rulings that in 136 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: fact the president is commander in chief has basically on 137 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: limited capacity to declassify. So if he had issued that 138 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: anything he took out was by definition declassified, I think 139 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: it creates a really interesting legal mess to try to 140 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: explain that there wasn't declassified even if the commander in 141 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: chief declassified it no question because we're talking criminal law here, 142 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: so you need mens rea criminal intent. So it's not 143 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: even if he made a mistake, that wouldn't be sufficient. 144 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: It's a very complicated case. You're right, Newp. And that's 145 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: another layer of interest in this is the legal aspect. 146 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: If an individual has almost plenary authority to declassified before 147 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: they leave office, do you really want to get into 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: that extra layer of complication with all the other aplications 149 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: in this case. So I'm a historian, I'm not a lawyer, 150 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: so I'm way out of my depth there. But it 151 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: strikes me, at least in the various TV shows I've watched, etc. 152 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: That the prosecution always wants to avoid releasing the affidavit 153 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: because it allows the defense to know what the prosecution's 154 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: trying to accomplish. So, in that sense, if I understand 155 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: it right, there's a normal reluctance by prosecutors to get 156 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: ahead of themselves in releasing that kind of information. On 157 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: the other hand, as you pointed out, this is such 158 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: an extraordinary moment that they almost have to bend over 159 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: backwards to prove that they had a valid reason for 160 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: going in. I mean, isn't that sort of a more 161 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: complicated weighing of the balance than you almost ever have? 162 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: Absolutely new standard protocol is all this remains on our 163 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: seal until the case is presented to the court via 164 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: indictment or complaint. This is not the running no case. 165 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: So I have to imagine, and I have to hope 166 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: that when these decisions were made inside the Bureau and 167 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: inside DJ that they knew this that there is no 168 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: way you can execute a search warrant on a former 169 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: president's personal residence and expect the standard rule to apply, 170 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: that you're going to keep all this under seal and 171 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: everybody's just going to be fine with it. I sure 172 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: hope that it was part of their calculus that they 173 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: knew that there was going to be immense pressure in 174 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: a universal calling almost to show these records. The main 175 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: reason why you try to keep things under seal new 176 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, prosecutors don't like to show their hand. 177 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: It's one of the advantages they have in investigations, as 178 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: they can operate covertly and out of the public view. 179 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: But when you make a covert case over through the 180 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: dynamic execution of a search warrant of this level of magnitude, 181 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: that justification goes away. I believe Hi, this is nut. 182 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: We have serious decisions to make about the future of 183 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: our country. Americans must confront big government socialism, which has 184 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: taken over the modern Democratic Party, big business, news, media, entertainment, 185 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: and academia. My new best selling book, Defeating Big Government 186 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: Socialism Saving America's Future offers strategies and insights for everyday 187 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: citizens to save America's future and ensure it remains the 188 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: greatest nation on Earth. Here's a special offer for my 189 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: podcast listeners. You can order an autograph copy of my 190 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: new book, Defeating Big Government Socialism right now at gingwishtree 191 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: sixty dot com slash book and we'll ship it directly 192 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: to you. Don't miss out on this special offer. It's 193 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: only available for a limited time. Go to gingwishtree sixty 194 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash book to order your copy now. Order 195 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: it today at gingwishtree sixty dot com slash book. You 196 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: raise an interesting point, which is there are members of 197 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: the Congress who routinely handle classified information technic. I think 198 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: all members of Congress are cleared for secrecy, but they're 199 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: members who are cleared all the way up to the 200 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: most sensitive infustion. And when I was a speaker, I 201 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: was part of the Gang of Eight. So in theory 202 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: we had access to virtually everything I emphasize in theory. 203 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: But wouldn't it be relatively reasonable intermediate step for the 204 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: Attorney General to decide in the House and Senate that 205 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the Intelligence Committee of the Judiciary Committee that somewhere there 206 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: was a group of people who were trustworthy that they 207 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: could give everything too on a bipartisan basis and have 208 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: some kind of assessment by this independent group as to 209 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: whether or not this was in fact a runaway investigation 210 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: or whether in fact it was a totally legitimate effort. 211 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't that be a middle ground? Sure it is, 212 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: and That's what I've been asking for. And to Mike 213 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: Turner's point makes the ranking member soon to be chairman 214 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: of the Intelligence Committee. And he also makes a good 215 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: point that for this type of to be justified, for 216 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: it to be so time sensitive and so urgent and 217 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: critical to national security that they moved forward. How is 218 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: it possible that you know, he being the lead of Republican, 219 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: the ranking member on the Intelligence Committee was never briefed 220 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: when he and our committee have oversight over the intelligence communities. 221 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: So how do you reconcile that? Right, If it was 222 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: so critical, it should have been briefed. If it wasn't briefed, 223 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: then it mustn't have been critical enough to brief in 224 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: which case, how is it critical enough to execute a 225 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: search warrant on a former president's personal residence. We have 226 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: to reconcile that and get to the bottom of those 227 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: two things. But one level, and several people have mentioned 228 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: to me that Director Ray last Friday basically stiffed the 229 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: Senate Committee said I have an appointment I can't miss. 230 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: And it turned out to be a private plane that 231 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: was waiting to go when he wanted to go, but 232 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: he just got up and walked out. So hasn't there 233 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: been sort of a non cooperative approach here? Well, we'll 234 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: find out. I'm hopeful that this week next week we're 235 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: gonna get some movement. I mean, they've been by partisan calls. 236 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: By the way, Chairman Schiff also reached out to the 237 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: DNI director and asked for a briefing as well. I 238 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: know Senator Rubio did as well, So it seems like 239 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: everybody wants to get to the bottom of it. Of course, 240 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: it seems like the Democrats are more interested in getting 241 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: to the root of the investigation. In addition to that, 242 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: we also want to get to the bottom of the 243 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: decision on this investigative collection technique and if there was 244 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: any lesser intrusive means to do it, because there's a 245 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: separate issue that I'm concerned about here in newt the FBI, 246 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: the bottom line is they have tens of thousands of 247 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: cases spanning from Fenton al to organized crime to drug rings, 248 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of cases, white collar crime, securities, fraud, inside 249 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: of trading. It's much more difficult for agents today to 250 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: do their job than it was a week ago because 251 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: the FBI and agents required the support of the public 252 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: to do their job. We need to be able to 253 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: recruit cooperators that introduce undercovers in a criminal networks. When 254 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: we're doing door knocks in neighborhoods, we need people to 255 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: open the door and but us into their living rooms, 256 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: sit us down on their cal and share information with us. 257 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: When you lose that, when you run into a scenario 258 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: where one out of every two doors you knock on, 259 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: you're going to get the door slammed in your face 260 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: because of politics. That's a very dangerous thing for our country, 261 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: and there are a ton of agents that have harder 262 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: time doing their job today than they did last week. 263 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: As you know, there's been a joint Homeland Security and 264 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: FBI intelligence briefing warning about increased threats against federal law enforcement, 265 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: and we've actually seen at least one occasion of an 266 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: armed man attempting to attack the FBI building in Cincinnati. 267 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: What's your sense about whether or not all of the 268 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: tension And I notice that President Trump had apparently sent 269 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: a signal to jical CB willing to cooperate with them 270 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: and trying to quiet things down. What's your sense of 271 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: whether there is in fact increased tension and increased danger. Well, 272 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: there definitely is, and it reminds me of the summer 273 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, during that period of unrest, when there 274 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: was a lot of threats against local law enforcement. None 275 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: of it's okay, and I think that message needs to 276 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: be first and foremost as we're proceeding in the analysis 277 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: of the propriety or impropriety of what's transpired over the 278 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: past week, all of us have to lead the conversation Democrat, 279 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: Republican and everyone in between that violence is never acceptable, 280 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: threats against law enforcement are never acceptable, and that anybody 281 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: who threatens law enforcement ought to be arrested and prosecuted 282 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: for it. I think that's really important because new to 283 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: our conversation about what causes democracy to unravel. Let people 284 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: lose respect for the rule of law and start taking 285 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: matters in their own hands, that's when the system collapses. 286 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: We can't stand by and let that happen. Well, if 287 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: you go back to when you first joined the bureau, 288 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: my sense and my experience of this, I guess goes 289 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: back into the seventies and eighties, there was a sense 290 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: that the FBI was probably the most respected law enforcement 291 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: agency in the world. There was the gold standard, and starting, 292 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: I think with the mishandling of the various Russian hoax matters, 293 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: at least on the right, that whole sense of the 294 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: agency has been pretty badly tarnished, and this latest cycle 295 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: isn't helping any I agree with you if you really 296 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: believe that policing matters and that the police ultimately are 297 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: the thin line between anarchy and predatory behavior. And decent 298 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: lives for most people. Then the FBI has to be 299 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: held to a standard of being the most accountable agency, 300 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: if you will, in the law enforcement field. I've recently 301 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: went back and read a fascinating book about the murders 302 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: in O Sage County in the nineteen twenties, which was 303 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: the first great success of Herbert Hoover and the FBI, 304 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: and the local sheriff was corrupt. Native Americans were being 305 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: killed to get their oil rights. Then wasn't yet a bureau, 306 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: but there was a Department of the Justice bone. You know, 307 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: they really played a vital role and a cooperative role 308 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: in a way that was amazing and helped set their 309 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: prestige for a half century. I think doesn't there has 310 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: to be real care given by Director Ray and others 311 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: that the agency ross says open to the public and 312 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: responsible to the public and not engaged in vendettas and 313 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: the behavior that can't be explained. Absolutely, he has no 314 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: higher responsibility as to all that bad directors than to 315 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: preserve and protect the brand of the FBI, and that 316 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: being of unbiased, non political pursuing of the facts wherever 317 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: they lead in reporting those facts with unappeachable integrity. That's 318 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: the mission of the Bureau. I would actually suggest you 319 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: suggested crossfire Hurricane is when this all started. I actually 320 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: think it predates that. I would point back to the 321 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: July twenty sixteen press conference that Jim Comee gave where 322 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: he did something that was unprecedented for an FBI director. 323 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: FBI agents and directors. Directors will speak, but on a 324 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: limited basis. Agents virtually never speak to the press. We 325 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 1: do everything through a press office. That's what the Department 326 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: of Justice, the Attorney General, and the prosecutors do. They 327 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: speak to the press. But what he did there was 328 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: something that I've never seen any FBI director do in 329 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: the history of the Bureau. He injected the Bureau into 330 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: a contentious presidential political campaign, and it made the agent 331 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: population across the country in all fifty sixth Field Office 332 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: is very uncomfortable. And it sort of went on from there. 333 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: And I think, honestly new and I don't enjoy saying this, 334 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: but it's how I feel Jim Comey did so much 335 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: damage to that organization. And then later right before the 336 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: twentieen election, when he tweeted out that the country should 337 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: vote straight Democrat just sort of confirming all the suspicions 338 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: people had about him. He's done tremendous damage to the FBI, 339 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: and I don't enjoy saying that because a lot of 340 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: people liked him when he first came in. That's what 341 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: I think this all started. And you know, it makes 342 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: me very sad because I dedicated my life to that organization. 343 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: I know all the critical work they do. I know 344 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: some of the amazing people that work there, and they've 345 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: really been harmed by people that were at the top 346 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: that really they had no control over what they were doing. 347 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: And in a sense, the ultimate harm is that the 348 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: country diminishes its most important single asset in trying to 349 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: force the law. I mean, it's really been a remarkable 350 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: institution for its one hundred year history now. But you know, 351 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: I had the same film with Comy, and I could 352 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: never quite figure out what he thought he was doing. 353 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: On the one hand, it looked like he was trying 354 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: to help Hillary. On the other hand, I thought he 355 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: did a press event I guess in October that clearly 356 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: I thought helped tum. In fact, I called Trump and said, 357 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: I think he just won the election. And you could 358 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: never figure out in Komy's head. I mean, what did 359 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: he think he was doing that? I'm not sure we'll 360 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: ever know. Well, the consistent theme across all that new 361 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: was Jim Comey was in the spotlight and that's what 362 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: he wanted. He got that part of it anyway. But 363 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: I think with Ray there was a sense that he 364 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: was going to be a big improvement. And that's why 365 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: I think everything from you perp walking a college professor 366 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: out of National Airport to having three FBI agents show 367 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: up with the congressman and his family to get his 368 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: cell phone, which I think the whole legislative branch ability 369 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: to function without the executive branch running over it is 370 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: at the heart of how the founding fathers saw this, 371 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: because they'd looked back at the English Civil War, and 372 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: they'd looked at Cromwell's dictatorship, and they had a real 373 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: sense of the importance of the separation of powers and 374 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: the importance of the legislative branch not being intimidated by 375 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: the FBI. We'd had a similar thing happen with Congress 376 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: and Jefferson, and he was legitimately guilty. I'm not saying 377 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: he wasn't guilty, but when they went into his house. 378 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: They didn't just take the things referencing the potential crime. 379 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: They took all of his material, including legislative material about 380 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: the part of the FBI that was picking up the material. 381 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: And it strikes me that at some point in not 382 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: two distant future, there will be a real confrontation over 383 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: whether or not the executive branch this as a Democrat 384 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: or Republican, but whether or not the executive branch can 385 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: in fact bully the legislative branch. And none of us 386 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: have confronted yet that cell phones mean you can have 387 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: an amazing volume of information on your cell phone, and 388 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: if it's going to be picked up by the FBI, 389 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: they're going to have to build almost the way they 390 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: do with secret material. They have to build some kind 391 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: of division of labor where people who are not involved 392 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: in the case go through the cell phone to separate 393 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: the things that are not admissible from the things that 394 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: are legitimately admit. Does that make any sense at all? Absolutely? 395 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean that Jefferson case you referred to, that was 396 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: the speech and debate clause litigation. That's when it really 397 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: got shaped recently, and a lot of that was thrown 398 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: out because the court at the time had a very 399 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: expensive view of what was protected under speech and debate. 400 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: You know, as far as the recalibration of the balance 401 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: of powers, I couldn't agree more nude. I'm from the 402 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: Philadelphia area. Were big researchers and historians of Ben Franklin, 403 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: and he spoke a lot about this, including when he 404 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: spoke to that young paperboy I believe when he emerged 405 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: from the Constitutional Convention and the boy asked, what kind 406 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: of government have you given us in the stead of republic? 407 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: If you can keep it and beside the second point, 408 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: and later elaborated that they had created this American experiment 409 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: that had never been tried anywhere in the world, and 410 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: although they thought it was a great at system in 411 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: the world, they also said it's the most fragile system 412 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: in the world because if there's any in balance between 413 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: those three branches, the system could potentially collapse. And we 414 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: see that now. I mean, a big issue we're debating 415 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: now is the AUMF and whether there's been a usurpation 416 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: of Article on authority by Article two when it comes 417 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: to issues of warm peace. We're seeing this with a 418 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: lot of executive orders, and it is something that we 419 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: have to be cognizant of I believe they just ran 420 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: across a quote from Topefille, who wrote about eighteen thirty 421 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: seven that if the United States remains a citizens centered system, 422 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: it will probably be free in perpetuity. But if it 423 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: gradually drifts towards a government centered system, that it's impossible 424 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: for government to ever have the energy and capacity to 425 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: replace all the things that citizens do, and it would 426 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: mean a steady decay of freedom. It's a very interesting 427 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: paragraph given what we're living through almost two hundred years later. 428 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: And knew. The brilliance of you is your love for history, 429 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's what our country needs more than 430 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: ever right now. We got to remember where we came 431 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: from and what our founders debated and agreed upon, and 432 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: what they knew the risk were, because we seem to 433 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: just take everything for granted. Now we're two hundred and 434 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: forty six years old. We just celebrated a two hundred 435 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: forty six birthday. That's not old, that's just a few generations, 436 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and yet we're the world's oldest democracy. New democracy has 437 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: survived on this planet more than a few generations, and 438 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: we forget that. We can't fathom waking up in a 439 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: world where the US dollars not the world's currency standard, 440 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: where America is not the world's economic and military superpower. 441 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: But for those of us that are tracking China day 442 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: in and day out, we can lose that very quickly. 443 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: And Gigping has said this before, never going to defeat 444 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: America from the outside. The only way you beat America 445 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: is from within by turning American on American. He's gone 446 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: so far as to identify what he calls the five 447 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: spheres of American influence traditional media, social media slash big tech, 448 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: Hollywood slash entertainment, academia, and professional sports. And you see 449 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: evidence of that of China infiltrating the supply chains there 450 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: to try to change us internally, culturally and fighting with 451 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: each other. I have to ask you just for a second. 452 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: It gives me your passion and your commitment and your 453 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: obvious sincerity. What led you to decide to run for 454 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: public office? And it's a very difficult business inevitably involves 455 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: very tough campaigning and very tough news media, And so 456 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: you were stepping out from a very prestigious job to 457 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: tackle something really hard. What led you to do that? 458 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: You knew my brother Mike. He was my predecessor who 459 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: he lost a few years ago to cancer. And I'd 460 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: never run for anything, and never plan on running for anything. 461 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: I loved being in law enforcement. But I came home 462 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving twenty fIF my brother and I were talking 463 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: about you know, he laid a lot of brutal news 464 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: on me that he had a terminal diagnosis and he 465 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: didn't think he was going to be around much longer. 466 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,239 Speaker 1: And we talked about a lot of things. We had 467 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: a lot of brotherly conversation. We talked about what he 468 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: was working on, what he wanted to see carry forward. 469 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: And it was then that I thought about it and 470 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: made the tough decision to leave the Bureau, which by 471 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: the way, is a one way street. Once you leave 472 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: the Bureau, you can't get back in unless you go 473 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: through Quantico again. It was hard getting Quantico at twenty 474 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: eight years old. I could never get through at forty 475 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: two or forty three. So I knew that it was 476 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: a permanent decision, and I was leaving for an open 477 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: seat in a swing district and a presidential election year. 478 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: There were no certainties, but I decided to do it, 479 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: you know, because I loved my brother, dearly, and I 480 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: love my country and decided to give it a go. 481 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: And as it would have it, now here, I am 482 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: still involved in bureau matters, but in more of an 483 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: oversight role. The process of campaigning and all that. I mean, 484 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: would you recommend it to others? Well, it's not for 485 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: the faint of heart. You gotta have thick skin because, 486 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: as you know, public officials have no protection against slander 487 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: or liabel. People can say whatever they want about you. 488 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: So it's hard, but it's worth it new because again, 489 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: the thing I love about you is your love for history. 490 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: I wish everybody in America would have an appreciation for 491 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: history like you do, because it really emphasizes the weight 492 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: of our job. Right now. We have four and thirty 493 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: five members of the House, one hundred senators, and it's 494 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: up to us to preserve the world's oldest and greatest democracy. 495 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: It's on us. And the way we do that is 496 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: having the right perspective of our job, and that is 497 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: to be the voice, collective voice right now of seven 498 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: hundred and forty thousand people per congressional district, and to 499 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: make sure that we keep an open mind and we 500 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: always remember that the power in this country lies with 501 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: the people, not the politicians, not the business leaders. It 502 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: lies with the people. And if we remind ourselves of 503 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: that every day, I think that that's really important. Yeah. 504 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: I had two fascinating experiences when I was a relatively 505 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: junior member. One was Bill Friends, who was it just 506 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: a great, remarkably intelligent member from Minnesota, who came to 507 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: a freshman orientation class and said, look, if you're serving 508 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: late at night and you walk out on the Capitol 509 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: steps and you look across at the Supreme Court in 510 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: the Library of Congress and your heart doesn't go a 511 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: little pity pat with an extra beat, go home. You've 512 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: lost the sense of why you should be here now. 513 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: The countervailing story was Henry Hyde, who was one of 514 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: the great members and for whom the high a Memory 515 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: is named. Henry came to some group one time and 516 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: he said, you know, I came here to change the world, 517 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: and now that I've been here long enough, I simply 518 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: hope to leave the room with dignity, which is I 519 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: think a little bit humbling and a reminder that you know, 520 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: somebody once said, you get five hundred and thirty five 521 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: senior class presidents, all serving simultaneously. That's true. It has 522 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: its own interesting implications. It does, and you had to 523 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: manage that operation. I think you leaded, although I have 524 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: to say I think Pelosi manages it. She has the 525 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: most power of anyone I've ever seen. It's astonishing to me, 526 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: and given my own experience, if you had said to me, 527 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a three or four vote margin, I 528 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: would never have dreamed she could ram through the stuff. 529 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: She rams through it. So in that sense, I'd say 530 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: she manages it. My experience as I let it, and 531 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: I could only lead as far as they would go. 532 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: I couldn't go any further. I think Kevin will be 533 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: closer to the leadership model. I also think it's a 534 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: problem because Democrats tend to be a little bit like muscos. 535 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: They gather together, they stay herded up against the wolves. 536 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: Republicans are all individuals. I once had a conservative in 537 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: Hollywood say to me, the reason you can't get a 538 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: conservative Hollywood is that the liberals here love getting together, 539 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: and the Conservatives are defined by the fact that they're 540 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: all individuals. They don't have any interest in going to 541 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: a meeting. So I think to some extent, leading Republicans 542 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: is dramatically different than leading Democrats, and you know that 543 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: just looking at Philadelphia and the great history of the machine. Look, 544 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: I really want to thank you. I think you're now 545 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: in a remarkable position as an FBI agent, as a 546 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: member of Congress. Given what's currently going on. I have 547 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: a hunch you're going to have a very significant role 548 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: to play in the next three or four years. And 549 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you're taking the time to sort of 550 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: help educate the rest of us. It's a pleasure to 551 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: see you, mister speaker. I'm a big fan of yours, 552 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: and thanks for having me in. Thank you to my guest, 553 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick. You can learn more about the FBI 554 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: rate on Marlago on our show page at newsworld dot com. 555 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: News World is produced by Gingwish three sixty and iHeartMedia. 556 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Garnsey Sloan, our producers Rebecca Howe, 557 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: and our researcher as Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the 558 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the 559 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: team at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying news World, 560 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 561 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 562 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 563 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: of Newtsworld consign up from my three free weekly columns 564 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: at gingwage free sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gangwige. 565 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld