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Speaker 1: That's O T T E R dot Ai. The moment
Speaker 1: you realized you were mistaking your kids for co workers? Okay, team,
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Speaker 1: builder dot com. Hi everybody, I'm Bozma St. John and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
Speaker 1: Except I am by my damn self, okay, because Katie
Speaker 1: is sprinting towards her book deadline and so she's left
Speaker 1: me all by my lonesome. But today I'm not by
Speaker 1: my lonesome. You know why, because I've got the fabulous
Speaker 1: Ashley Graham with me. I am so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on, Ashley. I
Speaker 1: love you. I just love you. You know, since day one,
Speaker 1: I think it was um a love affair. Do you
Speaker 1: remember the year that was? Oh? Girl, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know I should have actually done like the research
Speaker 1: on what year it was because it was Glamor. It
Speaker 1: was Glamor Woman of the Year. Yes, and then they
Speaker 1: just kept putting us together and stuff, and then it
Speaker 1: was that was it. They just knew. I feel like
Speaker 1: we kept seeing each other at places, yes, and then
Speaker 1: we were like, you know what, I think we should
Speaker 1: just be best friends. That it was. That was it.
Speaker 1: That was the universe was telling us. And then plus
Speaker 1: I love justin you know, he looked I was. I
Speaker 1: was showing him tough love though, because I kind of
Speaker 1: felt like your cousin who needs to give him a
Speaker 1: hard time, you know what I mean, So you can't
Speaker 1: know he's all the way in, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: because you have it, you know what. That's that's the
Speaker 1: best because just in such a teaser he I mean,
Speaker 1: all day long, teasing and joking. But then lay L
Speaker 1: Lael and I are like, I mean, she's my little sister.
Speaker 1: That's it's it's, oh my gosh, Isaac, we have so
Speaker 1: much to talk about, like because honey, we we were
Speaker 1: having jokes um, you know, prior to this conversation about you, um,
Speaker 1: because we as in like the producers myself, we were
Speaker 1: having jokes um, because girl, you have done so much. Okay,
Speaker 1: you are so much. At one point, Lauren said she
Speaker 1: just had to just go ahead and google Ashley Graham
Speaker 1: launches because it just felt like you kept uncovering launches,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you are not just
Speaker 1: a mom, even though you're a factless, amazing, wonderful new mom,
Speaker 1: but you're fashion and beauty icon, girl, icon, changemaker, rule breaker,
Speaker 1: a TV host, a producer, an activists, a wife, somebody's daughter,
Speaker 1: my bestie. Come on titles did you cause a spirit
Speaker 1: feel like because yes, yes, yes, but all of the
Speaker 1: titles because you are so much and you mean so much,
Speaker 1: and so I'm going to give all your flowers right now, okay,
Speaker 1: because I truly feel that you have absolutely not just
Speaker 1: disrupted the way that we look at fashion beauty. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about like shattered, disrupted, changed everything. Nothing was done
Speaker 1: the same afterwards. Okay, let's just go ahead and claim that, amen.
Speaker 1: But also the fact that you're an entrepreneur who keeps going,
Speaker 1: who keeps launching, and even in this time of COVID.
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about all of that well
Speaker 1: as much as we can in this time. But okay,
Speaker 1: so we we got to start though, from the beginnings
Speaker 1: of time, Okay, because you're you're in Nebraska right now,
Speaker 1: right I am in Nebraska, justin Isaac and I came
Speaker 1: with my mom to Nebraska the second week of March
Speaker 1: and we were like, we left New York because we
Speaker 1: just didn't know what was going to happen. I thought
Speaker 1: we were going to be gone for three weeks. I
Speaker 1: didn't even and pack everything, and um, it's been four
Speaker 1: months now, and it's it's it's been a very interesting
Speaker 1: time as everybody has been having. But um, I'm in Nebraska.
Speaker 1: I'm in the same home that I grew up in
Speaker 1: that I went to high school in, um with you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of different furniture because my mom has
Speaker 1: a boyfriend now that's living with us. Yes, so it's
Speaker 1: my mom, my, her boyfriend, me and Justin and Isaac
Speaker 1: and Isaac, Justin and I have taken over the whole
Speaker 1: basement and then they have upstairs, so it kind of
Speaker 1: and her basement is bigger than my New York sized apartment.
Speaker 1: Putting that out there, so we have been able to breathe,
Speaker 1: but it has it has brought me back to like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is where it all started. This is where it
Speaker 1: all began. Was like here in Nebraska. These are where
Speaker 1: my roots are. And so much of me has been
Speaker 1: like New York, New York, New York, New York until
Speaker 1: I die. And now I'm like back in a suburb.
Speaker 1: I see green out side of me. Isaac loves the grass,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, do I want the suburb? Like also,
Speaker 1: because I'll never give up my apartment in New York,
Speaker 1: So it brings a lot of perspective and I kind
Speaker 1: of I love it because I like to be a
Speaker 1: person who can go back and look at what I've done,
Speaker 1: where I've come from and be excited for myself and
Speaker 1: the same for the people around me and um, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly what this has done. Yeah. Can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that though, your beginnings in Nebraska,
Speaker 1: because you know, I feel that all of us like
Speaker 1: our our own origin stories. Yeah stories. So I mean
Speaker 1: listen right here, Colorado, right or die. There have been
Speaker 1: so many assumptions, you know, I mean about Midwesterners, Yes,
Speaker 1: and the way in which the middle behaves or thinks
Speaker 1: this is true, This is true. Talk talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about about you there? Then? What was that like? Who?
Speaker 1: Who was Ashley? Then? What were you like? Are you like?
Speaker 1: You are? Now? Different? Yes? No, nothing has changed, and
Speaker 1: this lap hasn't changed. The crazy thing is my mom
Speaker 1: has the same laugh, so if you hear her laugh
Speaker 1: and hear mind, you don't know the difference. Anyways, I
Speaker 1: moved here in eighth grade from Texas, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: a culture shock, but it was very different Texas to
Speaker 1: Nebraska and um, and when I got here, I was
Speaker 1: in eighth grade, I was incredibly curvy, Um, I just
Speaker 1: started modeling, and I I remember um my mom. My
Speaker 1: mom is from Nebraska, and one of her things that
Speaker 1: always growing up was she said, you have to be
Speaker 1: a hard worker. Hard work will pay off. And that
Speaker 1: is something that people in the Midwest really stand true to,
Speaker 1: is their hard work at And I come from a
Speaker 1: family in a lineage of farmers, and they have worked
Speaker 1: their butts off and um continue to this day. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's in my blood. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's how the people of even even just the Midwest.
Speaker 1: I can say it broadly, but Lincoln, Nebraska, you meet
Speaker 1: incredibly nice people and incredibly hard working people. And I
Speaker 1: really love that about the Midwest. Yeah, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: Well did you feel like that helped you as you
Speaker 1: then left me? Still has been the ethos of who
Speaker 1: I am in my career. If it weren't for the
Speaker 1: fact that I stuck to my guns and bulldozed through
Speaker 1: any boundary that was put in my way, Um, that
Speaker 1: was because of the ethics that my mother gave me. Um,
Speaker 1: the niceness I mean I was. I was dropped into
Speaker 1: an industry that was known as the mean girls club,
Speaker 1: the mean everybody's club, really and if you're not this,
Speaker 1: that or the other, or than you're out and forget
Speaker 1: about next season. You're definitely out. And I was nice
Speaker 1: throughout the whole thing. I my mom always told me kindness, Um,
Speaker 1: we'll get you farther in life than anything, and it
Speaker 1: has proven in my career. I think that a smile,
Speaker 1: a genuine how are you, and played by the rules, Um,
Speaker 1: we'll get you incredibly far. Yeah, yeah, I know that's
Speaker 1: so true. Okay, so we're going to get back to
Speaker 1: your career for a second, but do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about your mom and this intergenerational living arrangement that
Speaker 1: you're in, because clearly COVID has disrupted all of our lives.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you thought you were going to be
Speaker 1: in Nebraska for three weeks and here you are four
Speaker 1: months later, and we don't even know how long the
Speaker 1: hell we're gonna be in these in our situations, And
Speaker 1: so what has that been like, Like, you know, returning
Speaker 1: back to Nebraska and living in the house where you
Speaker 1: grew up in with your mom and her man and
Speaker 1: your man and your new little man. That's a that's
Speaker 1: a lot going on there. So I think that we must,
Speaker 1: we must be very abnormal because it's working. Nobody has
Speaker 1: gotten into a fight. There hasn't been any issues. We've
Speaker 1: had friends come and go. Um, we had we had
Speaker 1: family come and go, and all through the midst of
Speaker 1: all of it, we have really been working. Like everybody
Speaker 1: kind of knows their role, Like my mom is the
Speaker 1: nanny when I'm on a zoom or a podcast. Um,
Speaker 1: Michael is mcgiver and he's been doing house projects. Um,
Speaker 1: they just redid a bathroom. They put up a stone
Speaker 1: wall on the porch. Justin has found every coffee shop
Speaker 1: in Lincoln, and he's been editing films. Um. And I
Speaker 1: have just been like feeling so just incredibly happy that
Speaker 1: I can have these precious moments with Isaac, that I'm
Speaker 1: not on a plane. I knew that to three months
Speaker 1: after having him. My team would probably have been like, hey,
Speaker 1: you got this, you got that. In fact, I had
Speaker 1: things planned. But silver lining is I have got to
Speaker 1: I have been able to spend every waking moment with him,
Speaker 1: and it is such a blessing. Oh god, it is.
Speaker 1: It's so true. It's such a blessing. Similar to you.
Speaker 1: My mom um has been living with us during this
Speaker 1: quarantine time. YEP, and so it's it's of course her
Speaker 1: myself and Layel in the house. Um, so it's just
Speaker 1: female energy that's announced, intergenerational female energy, and we are
Speaker 1: we're making it. I don't know if we're as perfect
Speaker 1: as y'all, okay, but we're doing our best too. I
Speaker 1: grew up with two sisters. I get it. Mm hmmm
Speaker 1: mm hmm. Yeah. But you know, it's all a learning.
Speaker 1: That's just you know, I'm just I'm gonna put that
Speaker 1: silver lining on it. It's all a learning, Okay, it is,
Speaker 1: it is. And also you'll look back on this and
Speaker 1: you'll be so happy that you spent this time with
Speaker 1: your mom, your grandma for right, right, That's how I'm
Speaker 1: looking at him, Like I get this time with my
Speaker 1: mom and my mom and I talk about death like
Speaker 1: it's really not a like it's a conversation that we have.
Speaker 1: And she's like, okay, when I die, Like she tells
Speaker 1: me where her things are and this and that, and
Speaker 1: we talk about it. And she told me, she was like,
Speaker 1: just think about this time that when you look back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have had this. And it just it's always like, yeah,
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Speaker 1: can find jobs with the work life balance and salary
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Speaker 1: Dot Ai. You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie
Speaker 1: and Bows and I'm chatting with my friend, model mom
Speaker 1: entrepreneur Ashley Graham. Let's get back to it. Can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about when you began modeling and
Speaker 1: what actually made you think about how to innovate and
Speaker 1: change within that space, Because it's enough to just be
Speaker 1: who you are in the space. I mean, listen, there
Speaker 1: are lots of people who are in the spaces, are
Speaker 1: the industries they are in and trying to achieve just
Speaker 1: being different in that space. It's like that just that's
Speaker 1: enough work, Like you get all the all the trophies
Speaker 1: and metals just for having broken barriers being who you are.
Speaker 1: But then girl, you have to go ahead and just
Speaker 1: go ahead and innovate too. Can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that, Like you're you're modeling. But where where
Speaker 1: did those thoughts come from start off? Well, I think
Speaker 1: where it really began was knowing that after a certain
Speaker 1: amount of years of modeling. I mean I started when
Speaker 1: I was twelve years old and I moved to New
Speaker 1: York at seventeen. I left Nebraska. It was an oh
Speaker 1: five and my mom and dad said, if you don't
Speaker 1: make it in New York, you're gonna have to move back,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to go to college. And you're
Speaker 1: talking to a dyslexic a d D barely like like
Speaker 1: I just kind of like slid through high school with
Speaker 1: seats and whatever it took. I did not want to
Speaker 1: go to college, so I did whatever it took, and um,
Speaker 1: I worked my butt off. I took every job. I
Speaker 1: said yes to everything. Um and that was the beginning
Speaker 1: of my agency realizing, oh, this girl's down, she's like,
Speaker 1: she's actually ready and we can throw her into anything.
Speaker 1: So then it was probably about four or five years
Speaker 1: later when I was married. I had I think it
Speaker 1: was just a year that Justin and I had been married,
Speaker 1: and my career was great. I was top of the
Speaker 1: line catalog girl, Lane Bryant model just had a commercial
Speaker 1: that was banned from TV and it was Remember remember
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily like my name was put on the map,
Speaker 1: but people in the industry were like, oh, that's that girl,
Speaker 1: and um, Justin came home and there was it was.
Speaker 1: It was maybe a year after that and Justin had
Speaker 1: come home and I was still on the couch where
Speaker 1: he had left from the morning that he had gone
Speaker 1: to work. He's like, why are you still in the
Speaker 1: same position on the couch. I was like, it was
Speaker 1: one of those really proud wife moments, like, yeah he was.
Speaker 1: And around that time he said, what do you want?
Speaker 1: What is it that is going to make you happy?
Speaker 1: And because he knew that, I felt really stagnant in
Speaker 1: the career that I was at at that moment, and
Speaker 1: it got my wheels turning because I thought that from
Speaker 1: that commercial, I could um really capitalize off of it
Speaker 1: and turn it into something. And although I did much later,
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to happen faster. And I
Speaker 1: think that for me, everything has been a building block
Speaker 1: on top of the other and it hasn't come just
Speaker 1: so quickly, but it's come with time, and it's also
Speaker 1: come with having my ears open and so When Justin
Speaker 1: said that to me, it was like, you're right, what
Speaker 1: do people know me as? How can I really amplify?
Speaker 1: By the way, haven't we been saying the word amplify
Speaker 1: so much? I love it and I'm sure we'll get
Speaker 1: to that. Um and and how to amplify my voice
Speaker 1: and to really into not not just my voice but
Speaker 1: my name. And what I really wanted to change in
Speaker 1: the industry and um and that was start a lingerie line.
Speaker 1: So I went to a company. I went to a
Speaker 1: few companies and I said, Hey, I want to do
Speaker 1: a lingerie line. I'm known as a lingerie girl. Because
Speaker 1: that was a question, I asked myself, what what who
Speaker 1: do people know me as? Oh, they know me? Oh,
Speaker 1: you're that lingerie girl. So I started my lingerie line
Speaker 1: and I went to a few CEOs, but it ended
Speaker 1: up being CEO of Additionel Rosalind Grinder, and I said,
Speaker 1: I want to make bras that look like this, and
Speaker 1: I lifted up my shirt to her and I said,
Speaker 1: but you see this spillage and you see that And
Speaker 1: I said it's just it's not cute, and she's like, great,
Speaker 1: let's do it. Within a couple of months, we had
Speaker 1: the contract written up and the next year my capsule
Speaker 1: collection launched because who knew there's twenty five components to
Speaker 1: a bra and it took a year to make, I
Speaker 1: don't know. So that was the beginning of, oh, this
Speaker 1: is more than just modeling. But through that also I
Speaker 1: had always been called the plus size model. There was
Speaker 1: always a label kind of looming over me. And here
Speaker 1: we are. We're in a day and age where label
Speaker 1: are disgusting. Nobody wants to be labeled. Yet people still
Speaker 1: put you in a box for who you are and
Speaker 1: who you stand for, and who you're rooting for and
Speaker 1: who you're not rooting for. And all I simply wanted
Speaker 1: was to just be accepted for who I was Ashley
Speaker 1: the model period. So I just kept talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I think now looking back, that was the best
Speaker 1: thing I could have done, was just continue to talk
Speaker 1: about the change I wanted and my experiences through my
Speaker 1: own life, like with cellulite, like with dating, like with eating,
Speaker 1: my experiences around my body, my insecurities. Who knew everybody
Speaker 1: else in the world also had insecurities. I think, Um,
Speaker 1: that's it was, really it was really then, and it
Speaker 1: was it was justin kind of knocking on my door
Speaker 1: and and pushing me, but also me realizing that I
Speaker 1: needed to have patients throughout this whole thing, because um
Speaker 1: thirty two now, so here we are twenty years in
Speaker 1: the game. Besides justin, were there any other allies or
Speaker 1: how did you find the gosh? I don't know the
Speaker 1: wherewithal to be like, you know what, yeah, I know
Speaker 1: some companies. I'm going to go figure. Let's tell you.
Speaker 1: You know, as a model, you think that your agency
Speaker 1: is going to hold your hand through a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And I tell a lot of young models do it
Speaker 1: on your wrong. You know, they had an agent tell me,
Speaker 1: we're the ones who opened the door for you. You're
Speaker 1: the one who's invited back in. And when she told
Speaker 1: me that, it was an eye opener because it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just telling me that you can call them, but
Speaker 1: I need to do the work. And that's with any career,
Speaker 1: any any category that you want to actually get into,
Speaker 1: because nobody's going to do the work for you, nobody
Speaker 1: is going to sign up for you. You have to
Speaker 1: take a leap of faith. You have to get uncomfortable
Speaker 1: in a new situation. And that's the only place you're
Speaker 1: going to actually find growth. And that's what I did,
Speaker 1: and I just I mean, I would be on set
Speaker 1: talking to the CEOs, to the president's and being like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's have a you know, over lunch, over catering, and
Speaker 1: it's like, so I've been thinking about it's amazing and
Speaker 1: that's it. Because I told my agency at the time,
Speaker 1: I said I want to do a lingerie line. They
Speaker 1: said no, no, no, no, no, they said no to me,
Speaker 1: and then I came to them and said, well, well
Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing this. And of course they
Speaker 1: got to collect a check because that was the contract
Speaker 1: that I had, and those are also learning curves that
Speaker 1: I had to learn. It's like, you know, who am
Speaker 1: I signing my name away to? What? Am I signing
Speaker 1: my name a way to? Um? So I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I had the right people in my court as far
Speaker 1: as attorneys and advisors like that. Yes, but you're telling
Speaker 1: us and that's wonderful because I think I think part
Speaker 1: of it is also sharing, you know, sharing the knowledge
Speaker 1: that you have as you as you go along. And
Speaker 1: as I said before, you know I I obviously am
Speaker 1: I am a fan, not just your friend, but a
Speaker 1: fan of your work because of how relentless you are
Speaker 1: in the pursuit of continuing to create. It's a very
Speaker 1: impressive trait. Thank you. I'm not tired. I wanna. I
Speaker 1: want to change the world. I think that there's just
Speaker 1: that's it right. So as a mother, there's like a
Speaker 1: new strength that builds up in you. I believe, and um,
Speaker 1: and there's just so much to be done, and it's like, okay, checklist,
Speaker 1: check check check, Okay, what are what are my new
Speaker 1: what's my new? Checklist? And um, And I'm not afraid.
Speaker 1: I'm not I think that a lot of and I
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for every woman, but I think
Speaker 1: that there are some women who maybe even just people.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm maybe I shouldn't just say women, but I
Speaker 1: just work with so many women. It's like I don't
Speaker 1: want to ruffle anybody's feathers. Oh I can't do that
Speaker 1: because of X, Y and Z or do you think
Speaker 1: that that's the right idea. I think it's always the
Speaker 1: right idea. Go for what you want, go you know
Speaker 1: you always will hear like, go after what you believe
Speaker 1: in and and what you see for yourself. But if
Speaker 1: you're not actually going to put into action those things,
Speaker 1: then they're just not going to come forth for you. Yes, suh,
Speaker 1: yes suh, it's like put forth into action. Yes, let's
Speaker 1: snap it up, snap it up, because it's important. It's important.
Speaker 1: It's so important. Now, you know, like I said, you
Speaker 1: you've had quite a few launches. And I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a also a big fan of bragging on myself and
Speaker 1: on other people. But because this is your moment, okay,
Speaker 1: I want you to tell us, all right, tell us
Speaker 1: tell us the people all the things did you have
Speaker 1: launched and created, because I just think it's so inspiring. No,
Speaker 1: we really need to hear it, because, like you just said,
Speaker 1: you know, you could have continued to be successful as
Speaker 1: a model and girl, not just the you know, the
Speaker 1: commercial which was banned, but also you know your s
Speaker 1: I cover just a little bit ago, you know what,
Speaker 1: like there there have been some breakthroughs on the modeling front,
Speaker 1: but you have done the extra work of being on
Speaker 1: a set and talking to somebody. Okay, not just there
Speaker 1: to do the job you're doing, but doing the job
Speaker 1: that you want to get. Also, tell us, girl, tell us,
Speaker 1: give us, give us launches. Just do it, Just do it.
Speaker 1: Let let us, be let us be let me just
Speaker 1: let me just try to go. Oh my god, there's
Speaker 1: lingerie swim then, um, clothing, clothing of all sorts. I
Speaker 1: have a book, Um, I have a barbie. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: a producer of a few different shows. I have a
Speaker 1: workout series on YouTube called thank Bod. I have a
Speaker 1: show called Fearless on l M tube. UM. I have
Speaker 1: a podcast called pretty Big Deal because you are a
Speaker 1: pretty big deal. Hello. I'm I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: amazing covers, a lot of amazing covers. Um. Gosh, I
Speaker 1: hate talking about myself like this. This is very weird.
Speaker 1: I love it. This is the thing which is also
Speaker 1: really cool is that a lot of things is I'm
Speaker 1: the first curvy model to do a lot of it,
Speaker 1: which which I mean, you know, but this is the
Speaker 1: way it should This is the way it should be.
Speaker 1: We should be having representation of everybody at the table
Speaker 1: period um. But I was just thinking about Revlon and
Speaker 1: being um a a an ambassador and having a contract
Speaker 1: with them, I mean like beauty contracts. You know, I
Speaker 1: always had somebody tell me, you know, you're skinny from
Speaker 1: the from the neck up, so who cares? And I'm
Speaker 1: like well, what like, what's that supposed to me? I know,
Speaker 1: what is that to me? I've heard it all. If
Speaker 1: you've heard it, I've heard it and that's it, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. When we come back, Ashley and I
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Speaker 1: to Biz with Katie and Bows and now Ashley and
Speaker 1: I are going to talk about share the mic. Now.
Speaker 1: This was an initiative created by me and three other
Speaker 1: friends where we asked white women on Instagram to give
Speaker 1: up their platforms for twenty four hours too black women
Speaker 1: with powerful story who could share their narratives with a
Speaker 1: new audience. I'm so proud that Ashley Graham was one
Speaker 1: of the white women who said yes, and she gave
Speaker 1: up her platform to Opal to Matty, who, by the way,
Speaker 1: has been a guest on this show before, and it's
Speaker 1: the co founder of Black Lives Matter, So let's pick
Speaker 1: back up with Ashley right now. I do want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about this rule breaking person that you are,
Speaker 1: because diversity just does come in all kinds of ways,
Speaker 1: but we are in a specific moment right now where
Speaker 1: we're talking about all kinds of racial unrest, things that
Speaker 1: need to change. You have been such an advocate, such
Speaker 1: a voice in fashion and beauty specifically, but of course
Speaker 1: across many entertainment spectrums that we've just discussed. Talk to
Speaker 1: me about what you are thinking right now, like where
Speaker 1: is your heart, where's your head? Where's your spirit? You know,
Speaker 1: as we think about all of the things that are
Speaker 1: coming to the surface and this moment of reckoning that
Speaker 1: we're in, especially in the industries that you're in. Thank God,
Speaker 1: this is a very tough time to be in right now. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that it's hard for a lot of people
Speaker 1: to hear some of the stuff. It in some ways
Speaker 1: is surprising, which I think is wild, but that it's surprising, um,
Speaker 1: and it needs to happen. Everything that's happening right now
Speaker 1: needs to happen. And UM, I am so glad that
Speaker 1: there have been so many conversations. I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: I've been having those conversations prior to all of this
Speaker 1: coming out, UM, with my husband, with my best friends. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, because these are the conversations that now people
Speaker 1: are saying, oh, you have to have these conversations. But
Speaker 1: where my head is right now is that, Okay, how
Speaker 1: can how can I, as a white woman continue to
Speaker 1: educate the white people around me? Because, UM, I have
Speaker 1: seen and I'm sorry, I'm just going there with you
Speaker 1: right now. Yes, I mean, okay, UM, I have seen
Speaker 1: so many of my black friends and even my husband
Speaker 1: who it's it's like they get off the phone and
Speaker 1: or they've gotten so many text messages and they're just
Speaker 1: exhausted by having to have explain and talk and the
Speaker 1: and and and explain what's happening. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that I'm an expert or I know much at all,
Speaker 1: but what I do know, I'm able to talk to
Speaker 1: my family about what I do know, I'm able to
Speaker 1: talk to my white friends about and I'm able to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what you can do to help because I
Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of people who don't
Speaker 1: know what to do right now, and they are feeling, um,
Speaker 1: nervous or like they don't want to say or do
Speaker 1: the wrong thing. But in reality, being silent is doing
Speaker 1: the wrong thing. Being silent is being a part of
Speaker 1: the problem. So right now my feeling is discussed. My
Speaker 1: feeling is I'm I'm horrified, but um, but I'm also
Speaker 1: so glad that things are happening because it feels like
Speaker 1: real change is here and I can even just see
Speaker 1: like there's a different kind of hope in some people's eyes. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's true, there is, and I do feel that I
Speaker 1: feel like this is different. I really do. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: the optimist in speaking, but there's you know, the initiative
Speaker 1: that we did with share the Mic, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: thank you for asking me to do that. Can we
Speaker 1: pause on that for a second, though, because I also
Speaker 1: have to tell I have to I have to say this,
Speaker 1: which is that UM, very much like justin or any
Speaker 1: of your other you know, black friends. UM, I was
Speaker 1: so exhausted, so tired. You know. It's like it was
Speaker 1: as if there was like a call that went out
Speaker 1: that said, check on your black friends, and I was like,
Speaker 1: your black friends, just hold on. I don't I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't need you all to call me because I'm tired, okay,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to talk right now. And I
Speaker 1: was sitting in my house, unbathed, without brushing my teeth, exhausted,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to talk to anybody, and it was
Speaker 1: blackout Tuesday, and I talked to the only people I
Speaker 1: really want to talk to. Was the only person I
Speaker 1: really want to talk to, you was lovey at Gi
Speaker 1: Jones was a good girlfriend, and you know, she's a
Speaker 1: she calls herself the professional troublemaker, and that's the only
Speaker 1: person I really want to talk to, because I was like, girl,
Speaker 1: how can we start some trouble? Okay? Um? But through
Speaker 1: that conversation and talking to Glenn and Doyle a you know,
Speaker 1: and Stacy bend it Um, we came up with the
Speaker 1: idea and the idea to find white women who had
Speaker 1: big platforms, you know, who have followings who may not
Speaker 1: actually be very diverse in their own curated social channels, right,
Speaker 1: because not even so much about you, but it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, the people who follow you, who have decided
Speaker 1: who they're following, and perhaps it's not as diverse, and
Speaker 1: so how could we insert a different narrative into those platforms.
Speaker 1: And what I have to say about you, sister, is
Speaker 1: that I think I texted you maybe like three lines,
Speaker 1: like I was like, girl, this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1: You down, and you didn't. You didn't ask me who
Speaker 1: else was gonna do it. You didn't say what do
Speaker 1: I have to do? You didn't say when do I
Speaker 1: have to do it? And what did you say? No?
Speaker 1: You just said yes. You just said yes. And I
Speaker 1: don't think we have actually had that conversation of how
Speaker 1: what that meant to me? You know how how much
Speaker 1: it meant because your simple yes, without any qualifiers, was
Speaker 1: affirmation that not only as your black girlfriend, but just
Speaker 1: as a human being who you support and love and
Speaker 1: that you trust. And I was not feeling that in
Speaker 1: the world. So thank you for doing that. Well, you're welcome.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I can't give myself a pat on
Speaker 1: the back, because, first of all, I want to be
Speaker 1: a part of anything you do, because you're badass. You're
Speaker 1: badass bows. Second of all, I think that I had
Speaker 1: a feeling. I was like, Oh, she's about to do
Speaker 1: some she's about to do some wild ship. Let's go.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. But and sure enough
Speaker 1: we did some wild ship and then everybody followed suit.
Speaker 1: It was like, and that was great, Like oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: so many other hashtags and things like that that Mike
Speaker 1: came out and I thought that was great. But um,
Speaker 1: it was my honor and my privilege to be a
Speaker 1: part of something like that. I'm so glad you guys
Speaker 1: put that together. It was so wonderful. And I really
Speaker 1: do love seeing the generation and you know that have
Speaker 1: come out of it. Like I think yesterday somebody tags
Speaker 1: me and like, uh, you know, share the mic now doctors.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we got we got doctors sharing
Speaker 1: the mic. That's that's fantastic. Go ahead, John'll do it.
Speaker 1: So did the birth of Share the Mic come out
Speaker 1: of just purely your exhaustion through everything that was happening. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And I this is what I actually told Glennan, which
Speaker 1: was that, like, I was so tired of screaming into
Speaker 1: the wind. That's what it feels like. I was, like,
Speaker 1: I have been saying this for years. I have been
Speaker 1: talking at the top of my lungs, and it feels
Speaker 1: like I'm just screaming into the wind and just coming
Speaker 1: back in my face, you know. And so I was like,
Speaker 1: I need some new spaces. I need I need different
Speaker 1: places where people haven't heard this before and that's going
Speaker 1: to make the difference. And so yes, it was you
Speaker 1: and Arianna Huffington and Julian Robbert. Don't you just say
Speaker 1: the zoom? The first zoom we had, I was looking
Speaker 1: through and I was like, oh, we're Bree Lawson, like, oh,
Speaker 1: we'd athlete Judd, Yeah, right like and then and then
Speaker 1: it was just like and then the athletes and yes,
Speaker 1: Mandy Moore, Yes, this is us. And then it was
Speaker 1: and then it was just so funny because Glennon was
Speaker 1: there and we were all just kind of like, oh, hello,
Speaker 1: this is so normal, Like we're all here, very normal, casual.
Speaker 1: It's just a cassual day where a bunch of powerful
Speaker 1: black and white women get together to change the world. Yes.
Speaker 1: And then of course I was looking up a lot
Speaker 1: of the black women. I was like, oh, I already
Speaker 1: followed her. That's like Rachel Cargole, Oh my gosh, because
Speaker 1: she's just like, spit it to you truthfully and directly,
Speaker 1: and I love that. I love her page and even Opal,
Speaker 1: who I did share the mic with, such a sweet, kind,
Speaker 1: soft spoken woman who has so much fire in her
Speaker 1: that has done so much with Black Lives Matter. I
Speaker 1: was honored to have her take over my Instagram. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that you guys did a
Speaker 1: fantastic job and I'm excited to see where else it
Speaker 1: goes and um and how this just continues to change
Speaker 1: people's perspective and how they're continuing to learn and grow
Speaker 1: from this, because this was a great tool, I think
Speaker 1: for black women to get things off of their chest
Speaker 1: that they wanted to that they've been saying on their
Speaker 1: own socials, but they could say it on a white
Speaker 1: woman's social Who those followers, we're probably not following her?
Speaker 1: And I thought that was I thought that was just
Speaker 1: that was the key thing there, and that was fantastic.
Speaker 1: My followers loved it. They thought that they missed opal.
Speaker 1: They were d M me me, like, did Chicaroty come on?
Speaker 1: Like where was she? I've been waiting all day? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, sorry her timing. You're like, I'm sorry, It's
Speaker 1: just me, you know, Like I think I think it's
Speaker 1: just it was so it was so wonderful. It was
Speaker 1: really a great exercise, and um, I shared the mic
Speaker 1: with UH, with Courtney Kardashian and so even on her
Speaker 1: you know socials and with her followers who definitely weren't
Speaker 1: in my space, you know, and I wasn't in theirs.
Speaker 1: UM was really fascinating, you know, to to be on
Speaker 1: the live and to see their comments and to interact. UM.
Speaker 1: And I really do hope, I hope that it it
Speaker 1: opened up, you know, a window that we are going
Speaker 1: to be able to see more people who are willing
Speaker 1: to listen to people who are not like them, you know,
Speaker 1: and to hear opinions that they didn't know were even
Speaker 1: you know, founded. And so I really truly hope that
Speaker 1: that's happening. UM, we'll sign me up for the next one.
Speaker 1: I'm ready, girl, Okay, you know I got I got
Speaker 1: your phone number. Girl, I'm willing. UM. But actually speaking
Speaker 1: of that, speaking of hope, can you talk about what
Speaker 1: is hopeful? Like? What are you hopeful about? What are
Speaker 1: the things that you know, even in this time as
Speaker 1: we've talked about COVID and all your businesses, I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's you know, some changes that have been made because
Speaker 1: of it, you know, and the ways that you're going
Speaker 1: to try to innovate in this time. Um, what are
Speaker 1: your hopes for the near future even as we continue
Speaker 1: on in this space? You know the biggest thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think every every category has a different hope, and
Speaker 1: like in businesses, I really hope that a lot of
Speaker 1: the people who have lost their jobs come out of
Speaker 1: this and find success on the other side. I think
Speaker 1: for me as a mother right now, UM, I am
Speaker 1: so incredibly hopeful for my son who is black and
Speaker 1: he is now in a an era where things are
Speaker 1: shifting and changing. And when I got pregnant, I thought
Speaker 1: about how I'm going to be raising a young black
Speaker 1: boy in this era, in this generation. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: And now knowing what I know and seeing a change
Speaker 1: that's happening, and it may not be happening as quickly
Speaker 1: as we may all like it to be, but it's happening.
Speaker 1: Gives me hope and it gives a perspective of clarity
Speaker 1: that he may be okay later. He's going to have
Speaker 1: a great life regardless of everything that's happening. And I'm
Speaker 1: hopeful for America. I'm hopeful that COVID is going to
Speaker 1: um that we're gonna fight it, and that we're going
Speaker 1: to come on the other side of this because it
Speaker 1: has been incredibly detrimental to to the world and also
Speaker 1: to America. Alright, y'all, that was my friend, home girl
Speaker 1: model producer. I mean she does everything. That was Ashley
Speaker 1: Grant and does it for this week's episode of Back
Speaker 1: to Biz with Katie and Bows. But you can check
Speaker 1: out more of our episodes and our roster of very
Speaker 1: impressive guests at Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more
Speaker 1: of what Katie and I are up to, as well
Speaker 1: as our favorite moments from these conversations, go find and
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram. I'm Bozemus St John and this
Speaker 1: is Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for listening. Back to Biz with Katie and Bows
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media.
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Katie Currik, Bozemans, St John, and
Speaker 1: Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate
Speaker 1: producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing
Speaker 1: by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derek Clements.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode,
Speaker 1: go to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk and bosmus St John on Twitter and Instagram.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts. For my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Hi, my name is Lindsay Louis. Cal
Speaker 1: Hope is here for you with free mental health resources.
Speaker 1: Go to cal hope dot org to chat with a
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