WEBVTT - How the ACLU Works 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.200 Welcome to you Stuff you should know from House Stuff 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:12.600 Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.520 Josh Clark. There's Charles to be, Chuck Bryant, Jerry's there. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.120 She just yawned. Yeah, this is stuff you should know. Yeah, 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.200 if you like this, you can hang out with us 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.639 on social media to chuck, they can. Yeah, we're on 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.440 Instagram now, which is exciting. Yes, and we're on Pinterest now, 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.760 which is exciting. We have our Twitter account of course, 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:35.280 our venerable Facebook page, yeah, and our home on the web. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.120 Stuff you should do dot com where we have all 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.760 sorts of cool context and you can find all that 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.680 stuff by typing in s Y s K or Josh 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.480 and Chuck or stuff you should know, and it'll bring 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.960 up all that stuff. Fun, fun stuff. You know what 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.800 else is fun? What? Freedom of expression? That's right, buddy? Yeah? 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.360 You know why? Why? Because freedom can't protect itself? Is 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.200 that right? I think that was the slogan at one point. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.280 It may still be. Oh yeah, American Civil Liberties Union. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:11.680 I thought it was get bent. It's funny. It is 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:15.720 a controversial organization. So yeah, my heart goes out to 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.000 them like I love them in the same way that 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:24.280 I love the inflammation from my laceration, like I'm healing. 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.000 I know it's good for me that, but it burns 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.240 and hurts and it's bright red and raised. Right, I 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.880 know what you mean, Like, sure, defend the Ku Klux 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.600 Klan because there are Americans too. Yeah, yeah, what age 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.679 did you realize it wasn't klu Klux Klan? I think 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.959 I was thirty seven? Really, no, no, no, no, but 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.319 I did used to think it was Clu Klux everybody did. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.640 It just rolls off the tongue more. But then you 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.840 turn like ten or eleven or whatever, and finally your 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.760 dad is like, it's Ku Klux Klan. And then shortly 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.040 after that you realize they're just a bunch of rednecks 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.440 with too much time on their hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:01.880 I can't remember what episode we talked about, but we're 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.560 like everybody hates the clan here in America. Just to 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.160 let you guys who are listening internationally know you remember that. Yeah, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.240 I mean, that's one of the ones I feel safe about, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:12.960 like no one's going to write it and say, well, 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:14.440 like what, I don't want to hear your opinions about 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.519 the clan, you know, who may who the A c 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.280 l U. That's a good point. Yeah, no, no, they 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.720 will defend my right to say that, actually right, but 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.919 they'll also defend the clans right to rally against you 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.360 saying that I've actually done it before. What's the famous 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.079 onion the headline, A c LU defends clans right to 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.760 burn down a c l U building. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.000 it's pretty funny. That's great stuff, all right. The onion 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.360 I look to see if that was a Joe Randazzo joint, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.760 and unfortunate came about three years before Joe got there. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.280 Still good. Uh So, Chucky sent me a pretty interesting 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:54.240 little article that I think kind of illustrates the bipolarity. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.600 Maybe have the A c l U, but as we'll find, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.880 they're really unipolar, although they seem too faced. Yes, we're 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.760 gonna get to the bottom of all this. And again, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:06.800 like I like the A c l U. Al right, 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.600 I don't care what anybody says, all right. Uh So, 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:16.520 there's a little boy in um Cannon County, Tennessee, and 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.880 he was part of the Reach after school program r 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.040 E A c H. It's an acronym that I didn't 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.680 bother to look up. Some kind of slack. It starts 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.040 with reading. I bet I'll bet it does too. And 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.040 it's an after school program. And this little boy UM 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.440 was reading at this probably reading based after school program 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.800 and he's reading his Bible and one of the staff 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.720 workers said, you can't read that here. You can read 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.080 anything else in the world that you want, you can't 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.680 read your Bible. She said, or I was assuming is she, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.480 but he maybe said our program gonna be shut down 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.080 because this is a state run program, state funded, and like, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.960 we can't have this intermingling between church and state. First 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.640 of all, this is Tennessee that somebody's saying that. Secondly, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.520 they tried to take the boy's Bible away because he 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.120 refused to put it up. He said, no, I'm reading this. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.760 This is what I want to read. And there was 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.360 a big kerfuffle, and the A c l you stepped 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.120 in and is defending this boy's right to read his 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.560 Bible in church because it's in school, because it's freedom 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.640 of expression. Yeah, the same A c. L U who 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:24.200 is long um fought too not have state and school 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:29.800 sponsored religious readings, even saying like God bless this, Uh, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.120 this class of two thousand fourteen, A C. L You 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.800 would say, I would be like, yeah, give us some money. So, like, 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.200 like you said, it seems like a contradiction, is actually 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.640 not a contradiction because they were doing the same thing. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:47.800 They're fighting for someone's right to express something or read 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:53.239 something on their own, you know, because there's a because 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.599 it's guaranteed by the Constitution. It doesn't matter if it's unpopular. No, 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.760 they're they're going to defend you as a minority of 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.359 or in a single individual or a large group. It 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.320 doesn't matter as long as somebody is saying like, no, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.240 you're not allowed to assemble, you're not allowed to say that, 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.919 you're not allowed to think that, you're not allowed to 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.560 do anything guaranteed by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.120 The A c l U, by their charter will step 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.479 in and defend you in your rights, whether they think 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.479 you're the violence person on the planet or not. Yeah, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.840 and hold on, I want to defend myself. I wasn't 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.960 saying bipolar in the sense of the mental disorder. Bipolarity 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.720 can refer to all sorts of stuff. I didn't mean 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.960 it in that sense at all. Okay, that's good to 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.120 point out. Um, they're all over the map, But generally 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.239 they handle cases of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.760 privacy rights. Um. But again they will take up and 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.960 we'll see what kind of cases like how you can 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:50.720 get your case taken up by the a c l 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.880 You later on. But they handle about six thousand court 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.599 cases a year. Uh. They are a nonprofit. They provide 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:03.479 legal aid and are about five hundred thousand members, card 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.159 carrying members and about two hundred full time staff attorneys. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.440 Not bad at this point. And there's a national UM chapter, 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.880 and then there's state chapters. It's not state and localist 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.000 a state right. Yeah, each state has its own organization 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.320 and they don't often always agree with the national chapters, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.320 and they have to work it out, and the states 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.760 are given the rights to work it out. So, Chuck, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.120 let's talk about this. Why why if the a c 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.480 l U is defending people's rights that are guaranteed by 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.040 the Constitution, everybody loves the Founding fathers, Democrats, Republicans, commies, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.440 everybody loves the Founding Fathers, right, and the Founding fathers 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.280 created this great Constitution and then further created this wonderful 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.719 bill of rights and everybody's happy about it. Um, Why 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.000 would everybody hate the a c l U. If they're 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.480 just defending people's rights as guaranteed by the constitution, well, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.920 because their their view is we have to defend everyone, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:58.760 not just pick and choose. So they end up having 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:06.599 to defend Nazis and clansmen and religious zealots and pornographers 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.120 and yeah, like people on the extreme fringes. They still 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.840 have rights in this country. Yea unpopulars and maybe and 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.640 the a c l U fights for those rights and 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.280 a lot of people hate him because of it. Yeah, 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.840 it's true. But as we'll see, some some people who 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.680 hate them also love them when the a c o 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.200 U comes around to their side to defend them when 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.360 they get screwed over. Yeah, they're very polarizing. Yeah, it's 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.720 pretty My again, my hat is off to this this 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.160 um organization. It's hard to do something unpopular and to 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.560 see you feel like it's right to walk a line 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.200 to which it's walk this line and it's this line 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.640 that it it it hears it's like um uh oh man, 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:53.520 what is the guy the safety crusader? Yeah Nader. Yeah, 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.040 he's like the a c l U. He he was like, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.720 this is right, this is the right course. And if 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.880 we veer off of it, then we're wrong. If you're 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.120 not on this line, you're wrong. And he used that 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.960 kind of thinking to you know, get Seatbelts Institute and 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.160 all this stuff. But he was very unpopular. Many times 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.400 people who used to be colleagues and cohorts with him, um, like, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.520 when they stopped seeing eye eye with him, he would 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.880 speak out publicly against him. And the a c l 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.120 US very much like that. It's like, this is right, 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.160 it's black and white. You are allowed to say this, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.120 and if somebody tells you can't, then we intervene on 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.040 your behalf. Yeah, with the idea that if the government 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.880 is allowed to restrict the rights of some group that 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.520 they don't like, that could lead down the rabbit hole 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.960 to restricting other groups, and you just can't allow that 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.599 in a free country. That's precisely right. So, UM, I 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.000 think we've gotten the point across about the this third 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.880 time out, let's talk about the history of this organization. Yeah, 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.600 it's pretty cool. Um. It started um during World War One. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.040 There was a group UM in New York called the 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.800 Henry Street Peace Committee in nineteen steine and they were 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.840 they were little sissy pacifists who didn't want to go 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.600 to war, and they spoke out against it and form 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:13.880 the American Union against Militarism. And um, we're talking newsletters, uh, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.520 magazine ads, leaflets, leaflets and newsletters. Yeah. Um, but that 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.400 wasn't a popular thing back then, nor is it today. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:28.240 If you don't support wars, generally in certain circles, you 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.720 were thought of to be unpatriotic. Yeah. It's a lot 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.560 different today though than it was before. Like you know 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.480 those people that that protested Peach Tree and fourt keeenth 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.200 outside Colony Square every Friday, like that one of the 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.040 Indigo Girls shows up once in a while, Like the 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.200 people will honk in their support. They're not going to jail. Yeah, 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.520 it is different in this in this era, these people 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.280 who were put sending out leaflets, it sounds so innocuous. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.600 They went to jail. Yeah. The Palmer Raids in the 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.560 United States less than a hundred years ago. If you 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.000 say anything that was considered anti government or anti war, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:09.080 you went to jail for up to maybe twenty years sometimes. Yeah. Um. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.920 General Attorney General Mitchell Palmer in the nineteen in nineteen nineteen, 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.880 nineteen twenty conducted the Palmer Raids, which basically rounded up 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.440 and deported whoever they thought was a radical. Um thousands 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.840 of people, no warrants, no due process. It was just 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:28.160 sort of like you're coming with me, you anti war pacifists, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.000 commy and waiting. Yeah, And I mean, like that's a 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.079 good point too, Like there was a lot of socialists, 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:34.960 There are a lot of communists, there are a lot 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.920 of anarchists, a lot of Marxists, a lot of people 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:45.000 who were um advocating and agitating too for other economic 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:49.000 and government models. Right, the pacifists weren't necessarily I mean, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.600 they may have had something in common with those people, 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.640 and some of the pacifists might have been Marxists and 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.360 vice versa. But the pacifists were just anti war. Some 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.120 of them were like the U. S has no as 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.240 this intervening, and what's what amounts to a European war. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.120 Other people say wars a terrible thing, and like I 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.600 object to it outright on its basis. Their pacifists and 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.360 the pacifists too would get rounded up and taken to jail. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:22.640 Um and like you said, without due process, without any 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.560 kind of their rights were taken away. In nineteen seventeen 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.640 and the nineteen eighteen with the Espionage Act first, and 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.160 then the Sedition Act in in nineteen eighteen, where the 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.480 US passed a law that said if you if you 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.600 speak out against the government, against the war, against the 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.480 war effort, if you say we shouldn't be producing as 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.720 much rubber, well we need rubber for the war effort, 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.880 So we can throw you in jail for up to 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.920 twenty years. Man. And in twenty years, that's twenty years. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.640 Is different back then in twenty years in two thousand 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.920 and twelve years, because that's like um in twenty years 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.400 for the average lifespan was point to seven of your life. Yea, 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.000 it was of your life. In that was cent of 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.679 your life thanks to the flu epidemic. So that was 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.800 a lot of years to like go to prison, you know. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.000 I mean, that's still a lot of years to go 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:17.559 to prison. But I see what you mean. But it's 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.000 in the context of this that these people were organizing 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.199 and saying, no, we're not just gonna shut up. We're 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.520 gonna keep doing what we're doing, and we're gonna come 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.880 after you government that's using repression. So if like you 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:32.960 admire the a c O You today for any sort 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.640 of bravery, like if you take it back to the 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:40.600 original organization that those these were genuinely brave people who 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.560 are willing to face not just being unpopular, but going 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.960 to prison for twenty years for fighting for what freedoms 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.840 that are guaranteed in the constitution. Yeah, and fighting against 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.440 war in general. A couple of those people are the founders, 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.800 Crystal Eastman and Roger Baldwin. There are social workers and uh, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.720 big supporters of the labor movement, and they founded uh 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.400 the a U A M UM that, like I said, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:11.240 the American Union Against Militarism and uh they started assisting 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.320 legally with some of these cases, which was kind of 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.880 the first uh steps of what would later become the 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.520 a C l U was legal support, which is the 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.280 key the Civil Liberties Bureau, which is like a subset 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.960 of the UM a U A M where basically it 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.040 was like if you got sent to jail for um 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.320 handing out leaflets or something, they would come and assist 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.360 you with your court case. Yeah. And that well, that 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.640 wasn't Alongside that followed the a U A M split 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.880 and then the n c LB arose in its place. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.319 I got which is good. Um Baldwin went to jail 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:53.080 for a year for not complying with his draft notice, 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.200 got released, set up a different n c LB, now 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.560 called the American Civil Liberty Union. So in earnest it 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.440 was born on January nineteenth, nineteen. Is it like the 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.680 day he got out or something. I don't know if 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.800 it's a day he got out, but it was basically 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.839 just the restructured version of the National Civil Liberties Bureau. Yeah. So, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.920 and initially like they were thinking, well, we'll just keep 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.400 up with the leaflets they seemed to be working. How 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.520 about a newsletter to leaflets never worked, by the way, right, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.720 but also like staging protest strikes, just getting publicity to 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.600 try to um have an impact on the prevailing American 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.320 sympathies towards the idea of pacifism or whatever. Yeah, they 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.680 weren't just suing people out of the gate. No. And 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.720 the reason why they stayed out of the courts in 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.720 general because because at the time the courts were overtly 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.040 hostile to the idea of freedom of speech, especially but 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.640 other constitutionally guaranteed protections. The Supreme Court would just say no, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.840 we we we don't like what you have to say, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.720 and uh, and the rest of America doesn't so no, yeah, 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.600 you're we're upholding your conviction for saying that the war 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.520 is bad. Yeah. It was weird. Like literally up until 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:09.920 the nineteen twenties, most of the civil liberties granted us 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.760 to us were not tested, even because the Screen Court 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.400 would shoot it down. Like whenever they tried, they were 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.400 just saying, no, no, you don't have those rights after all. 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.040 You know something that I'm curious about. I wonder if 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.840 there's a correlation, because this is also like the end 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.240 of the guilded age, but there was also I mean, 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.120 there were a lot of very like wealthy, powerful interests 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:34.040 in The income gap was pretty substantial back then, and 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.320 I wonder if, like it is now, um, with the 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.040 income gap growing, if there's a correlation become between income 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.400 and quality inequality and um, a repression of freedom of 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.440 speech and privacy and things like that. I wonder if 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.320 like the two are related. Sounds like a book in 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:59.160 the making, my friend, No question, too much work. Um, 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.000 All right, well, I guess we should talk about some 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.320 of their most famous early cases. Let's do that, but 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:10.520 let's take a little break first. Alright, So early on, 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.200 like we said, um, the Supreme Court hadn't hadn't been 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.440 challenged that much in cases like these, and when they did, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.640 they weren't too kind to free speech. It is weird 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.040 to think of now, for sure. Um, but in the 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.840 nineteen thirties is when the A C all you began 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.840 to kind of make a little headway, um against kind 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.440 of against the Supreme Court. Yeah. Well, they started to 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.160 win smaller cases that you didn't have to go to 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.960 the Supreme Court, and it was kind of like, um, 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.560 death of repression by a thousand paper cuts, you know 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.840 what I mean. So, like all those little cases started 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.360 to add up where it was like, um, something in 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.560 some change to the law in Louisville, Kentucky, didn't really 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.920 have much effect in Missouri. But then they want a 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.280 case in Missouri. And then if you started to step 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.560 back and look at it on a map, you're like, oh, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.240 all of a sudden, this the balance is swinging the 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.000 other direction. Yeah. But when they did win big Supreme 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.920 Court cases, they were huge Supreme Court cases. I mean, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.560 like some of the most important cases of the twentieth 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.000 century the a c. L Us either been directly or 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.439 indirectly involved in, like the Scopes monkey trial that was 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.880 a big one. Yeah, they And we've talked a lot 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.160 about evolution lately, UM, and we didn't cover Scopes at all. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.720 But uh, in Tennessee there was a law banning teaching 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:34.040 evolution in and so the a c LU went out 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.520 and found a biology teacher named John Scopes, said hey, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.520 we would like you to teach evolution, and let's see 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.359 what happens. And he was prosecuted and the a c 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.879 l YOU got together with the famous attorney Clarence Darrow 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.120 to defend him, and he was still found guilty, even 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.440 though that verdict was overturned later because of a sentencing error. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.200 But so the a c l YOU lost, they lost, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.400 but it made big headlines and UM was really sort 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.640 of one of the turning points and establishing like freedom, 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.960 academic freedom in this country. Yeah, and I think not 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.560 just as far as the A c l U goes, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.640 but any anyone who's kind of UM trying to make 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.879 a change in the nation. I think one way to 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.159 do that is to just get people talking about it, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.680 because I think a lot of people, especially if they're 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.400 in the majority or they hold the majority view, make 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.000 the oftentimes incorrect assumption that everybody else holds the same 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.880 view too. And I think just if you're just confronted 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.520 by an opposing point of view, just knowing that it's 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.719 out there, whether you agree with it or not, can 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.280 kind of make you reflect and think about the views 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.760 you hold too, and why you hold them, and whether 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:45.119 they're um good views or not. So I think that's 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.720 the that the the impression I have of the cases 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.880 that it got people talking, and it made people who 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.960 agreed with not teaching evolution realize like, whoa were not 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.959 everybody thinks the same way I do. Yeah, ideally, Uh 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.119 so you know, you're oponents are going to say that 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.680 the c U is defending U, their watchdog, protecting everyone's 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.480 civil liberties, whereas people who poopoo it say no, they're 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.280 really a left wing organization and they subvert the Constitution 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.040 and they protect criminals, and they attack religion and they 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.320 have an extremist agenda. Um, so those are sort of 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.080 the two sides of the argument. The thing is, though, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:25.080 is like they if you go back over there, their history. Okay. 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.879 This article points out the perfect example, which one the 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.639 one where in the thirties and the nineteen forties the 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.399 a c l U defended both the n double A 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:39.359 CP and blacks rights to UM enfranchisement and just equal 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.879 treatment and UM basically civil rights. And while at the 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.399 same time, during these same years, the the a c 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.239 l U is also defending the Ku Klux Klan and 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:56.200 it's right to assemble and speak out against UM black rights. Yeah, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.879 that was the Skokie. Uh. Now, this is long before Skoki. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.800 This is like the thirties and forties. The Skokie was 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.879 the Nazis. That was another big one. Yeah, well, I 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.320 guess we can go ahead and talk about that, the 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:12.280 Skokie free speech controversy. In the late seventies. Uh, a 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.439 group of neo Nazis in Chicago wanted to uh have 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.680 permission to go to Skokie, Illinois, not form a barbershop 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:26.359 quartet UM, but hold a demonstration. And that was a UM. 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.240 Skokie was famous for being um the center of a 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.240 Chicago's Jewish community post Holocaust. A bunch of Jewish people 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.000 settled there, and so of course the neo Nazis wanted 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.600 to go to the heart of it all in protest um. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.600 They asked the a c LU for help and they 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.760 got it, and we're granted permission even though they didn't 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.120 use it. Yeah, because scote. When the Neo Nazis applied 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.120 for a permit to assemble or um have a parade 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:57.680 to Nazi parade, basically they Skokie City Council said, well, 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.879 you know that you have to post a dollar bond, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.240 which is gonna cost you about a grand I just 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.440 want to let you know about that first. And the 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.760 new Nazis said, you are trampling our rights. And that's 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.320 when they got in touch with the a c l U, 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:12.960 and the a C l you said, yeah, they're trampling 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.840 your rights, it sounds like. And they fought too for 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.840 the Nazis right to assemble based on the idea that 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:24.040 that thousand dollar basically fee to assemble was prohibitive and 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:28.680 that you know, anybody who wanted to hold a parade 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.440 or a protest or anything like that in Skokie it 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.760 wouldn't necessarily be able to afford that, So protests shouldn't 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.960 just be open to the people who can afford that 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:42.879 thousand dollar bond. And therefore Skokie, I guess relented, But 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.760 the Nazis never even came. Now, they never even held 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.520 their protest. Yeah, and that's that's gonna make you unpopular. 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.480 As an organization if you are campaigning for the rights 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.560 of the Nazis, but the A c l U bites 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.840 their tongue and say no, we have to Well, you know, um, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.639 you remember the part in the Blues Brothers. This is 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.879 all um very famously dramatized. Remember the Illinois Nazis. I 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.560 hate Illinois Nazis and they drive past him and make 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:12.080 them jump into the river. Yeah. I guarantee that was 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.119 because of the Skokie Skokie Nazi thing. It was all 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.199 around the same time. Yeah, and they were Chicago as well. Yeah, 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.800 and Chuck, have you ever seen you know the mall 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.480 part where they drive through the mall? I made the 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.359 slideshow UM nine abandoned malls around America, and that malls 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.199 in there, it's like abandoned in in this total state 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.400 of decay. The Dixie Mall, I believe it's what it's 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.240