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Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you should know from House Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles to be, Chuck Bryant, Jerry's there.

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Speaker 1: She just yawned. Yeah, this is stuff you should know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you like this, you can hang out with us

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Speaker 1: on social media to chuck, they can. Yeah, we're on

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Speaker 1: Instagram now, which is exciting. Yes, and we're on Pinterest now,

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Speaker 1: which is exciting. We have our Twitter account of course,

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Speaker 1: our venerable Facebook page, yeah, and our home on the web.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should do dot com where we have all

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Speaker 1: sorts of cool context and you can find all that

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Speaker 1: stuff by typing in s Y s K or Josh

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Speaker 1: and Chuck or stuff you should know, and it'll bring

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Speaker 1: up all that stuff. Fun, fun stuff. You know what

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Speaker 1: else is fun? What? Freedom of expression? That's right, buddy? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know why? Why? Because freedom can't protect itself? Is

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Speaker 1: that right? I think that was the slogan at one point.

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Speaker 1: It may still be. Oh yeah, American Civil Liberties Union.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was get bent. It's funny. It is

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Speaker 1: a controversial organization. So yeah, my heart goes out to

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Speaker 1: them like I love them in the same way that

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Speaker 1: I love the inflammation from my laceration, like I'm healing.

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Speaker 1: I know it's good for me that, but it burns

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Speaker 1: and hurts and it's bright red and raised. Right, I

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Speaker 1: know what you mean, Like, sure, defend the Ku Klux

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Speaker 1: Klan because there are Americans too. Yeah, yeah, what age

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Speaker 1: did you realize it wasn't klu Klux Klan? I think

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Speaker 1: I was thirty seven? Really, no, no, no, no, but

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Speaker 1: I did used to think it was Clu Klux everybody did.

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Speaker 1: It just rolls off the tongue more. But then you

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Speaker 1: turn like ten or eleven or whatever, and finally your

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Speaker 1: dad is like, it's Ku Klux Klan. And then shortly

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Speaker 1: after that you realize they're just a bunch of rednecks

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Speaker 1: with too much time on their hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what episode we talked about, but we're

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Speaker 1: like everybody hates the clan here in America. Just to

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Speaker 1: let you guys who are listening internationally know you remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the ones I feel safe about,

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Speaker 1: like no one's going to write it and say, well,

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Speaker 1: like what, I don't want to hear your opinions about

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Speaker 1: the clan, you know, who may who the A c

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Speaker 1: l U. That's a good point. Yeah, no, no, they

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Speaker 1: will defend my right to say that, actually right, but

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Speaker 1: they'll also defend the clans right to rally against you

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Speaker 1: saying that I've actually done it before. What's the famous

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Speaker 1: onion the headline, A c LU defends clans right to

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Speaker 1: burn down a c l U building. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty funny. That's great stuff, all right. The onion

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Speaker 1: I look to see if that was a Joe Randazzo joint,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunate came about three years before Joe got there.

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Speaker 1: Still good. Uh So, Chucky sent me a pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: little article that I think kind of illustrates the bipolarity.

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Speaker 1: Maybe have the A c l U, but as we'll find,

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Speaker 1: they're really unipolar, although they seem too faced. Yes, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to the bottom of all this. And again,

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Speaker 1: like I like the A c l U. Al right,

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Speaker 1: I don't care what anybody says, all right. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: there's a little boy in um Cannon County, Tennessee, and

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Speaker 1: he was part of the Reach after school program r

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Speaker 1: E A c H. It's an acronym that I didn't

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Speaker 1: bother to look up. Some kind of slack. It starts

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Speaker 1: with reading. I bet I'll bet it does too. And

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Speaker 1: it's an after school program. And this little boy UM

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Speaker 1: was reading at this probably reading based after school program

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Speaker 1: and he's reading his Bible and one of the staff

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Speaker 1: workers said, you can't read that here. You can read

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Speaker 1: anything else in the world that you want, you can't

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Speaker 1: read your Bible. She said, or I was assuming is she,

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Speaker 1: but he maybe said our program gonna be shut down

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Speaker 1: because this is a state run program, state funded, and like,

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Speaker 1: we can't have this intermingling between church and state. First

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Speaker 1: of all, this is Tennessee that somebody's saying that. Secondly,

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Speaker 1: they tried to take the boy's Bible away because he

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Speaker 1: refused to put it up. He said, no, I'm reading this.

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Speaker 1: This is what I want to read. And there was

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Speaker 1: a big kerfuffle, and the A c l you stepped

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Speaker 1: in and is defending this boy's right to read his

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Speaker 1: Bible in church because it's in school, because it's freedom

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Speaker 1: of expression. Yeah, the same A c. L U who

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Speaker 1: is long um fought too not have state and school

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Speaker 1: sponsored religious readings, even saying like God bless this, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this class of two thousand fourteen, A C. L You

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Speaker 1: would say, I would be like, yeah, give us some money. So, like,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it seems like a contradiction, is actually

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Speaker 1: not a contradiction because they were doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: They're fighting for someone's right to express something or read

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Speaker 1: something on their own, you know, because there's a because

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Speaker 1: it's guaranteed by the Constitution. It doesn't matter if it's unpopular. No,

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Speaker 1: they're they're going to defend you as a minority of

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Speaker 1: or in a single individual or a large group. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter as long as somebody is saying like, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not allowed to assemble, you're not allowed to say that,

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Speaker 1: you're not allowed to think that, you're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: do anything guaranteed by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

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Speaker 1: The A c l U, by their charter will step

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Speaker 1: in and defend you in your rights, whether they think

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Speaker 1: you're the violence person on the planet or not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and hold on, I want to defend myself. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: saying bipolar in the sense of the mental disorder. Bipolarity

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Speaker 1: can refer to all sorts of stuff. I didn't mean

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Speaker 1: it in that sense at all. Okay, that's good to

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Speaker 1: point out. Um, they're all over the map, But generally

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Speaker 1: they handle cases of freedom of speech, freedom of religion,

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Speaker 1: privacy rights. Um. But again they will take up and

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Speaker 1: we'll see what kind of cases like how you can

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Speaker 1: get your case taken up by the a c l

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Speaker 1: You later on. But they handle about six thousand court

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Speaker 1: cases a year. Uh. They are a nonprofit. They provide

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Speaker 1: legal aid and are about five hundred thousand members, card

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Speaker 1: carrying members and about two hundred full time staff attorneys.

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Speaker 1: Not bad at this point. And there's a national UM chapter,

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Speaker 1: and then there's state chapters. It's not state and localist

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Speaker 1: a state right. Yeah, each state has its own organization

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Speaker 1: and they don't often always agree with the national chapters,

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Speaker 1: and they have to work it out, and the states

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Speaker 1: are given the rights to work it out. So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this. Why why if the a c

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Speaker 1: l U is defending people's rights that are guaranteed by

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Speaker 1: the Constitution, everybody loves the Founding fathers, Democrats, Republicans, commies,

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Speaker 1: everybody loves the Founding Fathers, right, and the Founding fathers

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Speaker 1: created this great Constitution and then further created this wonderful

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Speaker 1: bill of rights and everybody's happy about it. Um, Why

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Speaker 1: would everybody hate the a c l U. If they're

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Speaker 1: just defending people's rights as guaranteed by the constitution, well,

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Speaker 1: because their their view is we have to defend everyone,

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Speaker 1: not just pick and choose. So they end up having

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Speaker 1: to defend Nazis and clansmen and religious zealots and pornographers

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Speaker 1: and yeah, like people on the extreme fringes. They still

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Speaker 1: have rights in this country. Yea unpopulars and maybe and

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Speaker 1: the a c l U fights for those rights and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people hate him because of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true. But as we'll see, some some people who

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Speaker 1: hate them also love them when the a c o

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Speaker 1: U comes around to their side to defend them when

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Speaker 1: they get screwed over. Yeah, they're very polarizing. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty My again, my hat is off to this this

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Speaker 1: um organization. It's hard to do something unpopular and to

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Speaker 1: see you feel like it's right to walk a line

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Speaker 1: to which it's walk this line and it's this line

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Speaker 1: that it it it hears it's like um uh oh man,

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Speaker 1: what is the guy the safety crusader? Yeah Nader. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like the a c l U. He he was like,

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Speaker 1: this is right, this is the right course. And if

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Speaker 1: we veer off of it, then we're wrong. If you're

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Speaker 1: not on this line, you're wrong. And he used that

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Speaker 1: kind of thinking to you know, get Seatbelts Institute and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. But he was very unpopular. Many times

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Speaker 1: people who used to be colleagues and cohorts with him, um, like,

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Speaker 1: when they stopped seeing eye eye with him, he would

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Speaker 1: speak out publicly against him. And the a c l

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Speaker 1: US very much like that. It's like, this is right,

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Speaker 1: it's black and white. You are allowed to say this,

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Speaker 1: and if somebody tells you can't, then we intervene on

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Speaker 1: your behalf. Yeah, with the idea that if the government

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Speaker 1: is allowed to restrict the rights of some group that

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Speaker 1: they don't like, that could lead down the rabbit hole

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Speaker 1: to restricting other groups, and you just can't allow that

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Speaker 1: in a free country. That's precisely right. So, UM, I

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Speaker 1: think we've gotten the point across about the this third

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Speaker 1: time out, let's talk about the history of this organization. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. Um. It started um during World War One.

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Speaker 1: There was a group UM in New York called the

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Speaker 1: Henry Street Peace Committee in nineteen steine and they were

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Speaker 1: they were little sissy pacifists who didn't want to go

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Speaker 1: to war, and they spoke out against it and form

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Speaker 1: the American Union against Militarism. And um, we're talking newsletters, uh,

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Speaker 1: magazine ads, leaflets, leaflets and newsletters. Yeah. Um, but that

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Speaker 1: wasn't a popular thing back then, nor is it today.

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Speaker 1: If you don't support wars, generally in certain circles, you

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Speaker 1: were thought of to be unpatriotic. Yeah. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: different today though than it was before. Like you know

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Speaker 1: those people that that protested Peach Tree and fourt keeenth

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Speaker 1: outside Colony Square every Friday, like that one of the

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Speaker 1: Indigo Girls shows up once in a while, Like the

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Speaker 1: people will honk in their support. They're not going to jail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is different in this in this era, these people

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Speaker 1: who were put sending out leaflets, it sounds so innocuous.

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Speaker 1: They went to jail. Yeah. The Palmer Raids in the

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Speaker 1: United States less than a hundred years ago. If you

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Speaker 1: say anything that was considered anti government or anti war,

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Speaker 1: you went to jail for up to maybe twenty years sometimes. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: General Attorney General Mitchell Palmer in the nineteen in nineteen nineteen,

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty conducted the Palmer Raids, which basically rounded up

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Speaker 1: and deported whoever they thought was a radical. Um thousands

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Speaker 1: of people, no warrants, no due process. It was just

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Speaker 1: sort of like you're coming with me, you anti war pacifists,

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Speaker 1: commy and waiting. Yeah, And I mean, like that's a

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Speaker 1: good point too, Like there was a lot of socialists,

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of communists, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of anarchists, a lot of Marxists, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who were um advocating and agitating too for other economic

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Speaker 1: and government models. Right, the pacifists weren't necessarily I mean,

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Speaker 1: they may have had something in common with those people,

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Speaker 1: and some of the pacifists might have been Marxists and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. But the pacifists were just anti war. Some

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Speaker 1: of them were like the U. S has no as

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Speaker 1: this intervening, and what's what amounts to a European war.

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Speaker 1: Other people say wars a terrible thing, and like I

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Speaker 1: object to it outright on its basis. Their pacifists and

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Speaker 1: the pacifists too would get rounded up and taken to jail.

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Speaker 1: Um and like you said, without due process, without any

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Speaker 1: kind of their rights were taken away. In nineteen seventeen

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Speaker 1: and the nineteen eighteen with the Espionage Act first, and

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Speaker 1: then the Sedition Act in in nineteen eighteen, where the

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Speaker 1: US passed a law that said if you if you

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Speaker 1: speak out against the government, against the war, against the

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Speaker 1: war effort, if you say we shouldn't be producing as

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Speaker 1: much rubber, well we need rubber for the war effort,

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Speaker 1: So we can throw you in jail for up to

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Speaker 1: twenty years. Man. And in twenty years, that's twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Is different back then in twenty years in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and twelve years, because that's like um in twenty years

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Speaker 1: for the average lifespan was point to seven of your life. Yea,

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Speaker 1: it was of your life. In that was cent of

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Speaker 1: your life thanks to the flu epidemic. So that was

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Speaker 1: a lot of years to like go to prison, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's still a lot of years to go

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Speaker 1: to prison. But I see what you mean. But it's

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Speaker 1: in the context of this that these people were organizing

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Speaker 1: and saying, no, we're not just gonna shut up. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna keep doing what we're doing, and we're gonna come

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Speaker 1: after you government that's using repression. So if like you

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Speaker 1: admire the a c O You today for any sort

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Speaker 1: of bravery, like if you take it back to the

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Speaker 1: original organization that those these were genuinely brave people who

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Speaker 1: are willing to face not just being unpopular, but going

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Speaker 1: to prison for twenty years for fighting for what freedoms

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Speaker 1: that are guaranteed in the constitution. Yeah, and fighting against

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Speaker 1: war in general. A couple of those people are the founders,

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Speaker 1: Crystal Eastman and Roger Baldwin. There are social workers and uh,

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Speaker 1: big supporters of the labor movement, and they founded uh

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Speaker 1: the a U A M UM that, like I said,

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Speaker 1: the American Union Against Militarism and uh they started assisting

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Speaker 1: legally with some of these cases, which was kind of

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Speaker 1: the first uh steps of what would later become the

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Speaker 1: a C l U was legal support, which is the

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Speaker 1: key the Civil Liberties Bureau, which is like a subset

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Speaker 1: of the UM a U A M where basically it

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Speaker 1: was like if you got sent to jail for um

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Speaker 1: handing out leaflets or something, they would come and assist

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Speaker 1: you with your court case. Yeah. And that well, that

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Speaker 1: wasn't Alongside that followed the a U A M split

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Speaker 1: and then the n c LB arose in its place.

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Speaker 1: I got which is good. Um Baldwin went to jail

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Speaker 1: for a year for not complying with his draft notice,

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Speaker 1: got released, set up a different n c LB, now

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Speaker 1: called the American Civil Liberty Union. So in earnest it

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Speaker 1: was born on January nineteenth, nineteen. Is it like the

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Speaker 1: day he got out or something. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's a day he got out, but it was basically

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Speaker 1: just the restructured version of the National Civil Liberties Bureau. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: and initially like they were thinking, well, we'll just keep

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Speaker 1: up with the leaflets they seemed to be working. How

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Speaker 1: about a newsletter to leaflets never worked, by the way, right,

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Speaker 1: but also like staging protest strikes, just getting publicity to

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Speaker 1: try to um have an impact on the prevailing American

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Speaker 1: sympathies towards the idea of pacifism or whatever. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: weren't just suing people out of the gate. No. And

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Speaker 1: the reason why they stayed out of the courts in

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Speaker 1: general because because at the time the courts were overtly

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Speaker 1: hostile to the idea of freedom of speech, especially but

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Speaker 1: other constitutionally guaranteed protections. The Supreme Court would just say no,

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Speaker 1: we we we don't like what you have to say,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and the rest of America doesn't so no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're we're upholding your conviction for saying that the war

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Speaker 1: is bad. Yeah. It was weird. Like literally up until

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, most of the civil liberties granted us

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Speaker 1: to us were not tested, even because the Screen Court

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Speaker 1: would shoot it down. Like whenever they tried, they were

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Speaker 1: just saying, no, no, you don't have those rights after all.

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Speaker 1: You know something that I'm curious about. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: there's a correlation, because this is also like the end

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Speaker 1: of the guilded age, but there was also I mean,

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of very like wealthy, powerful interests

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Speaker 1: in The income gap was pretty substantial back then, and

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Speaker 1: I wonder if, like it is now, um, with the

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Speaker 1: income gap growing, if there's a correlation become between income

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Speaker 1: and quality inequality and um, a repression of freedom of

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Speaker 1: speech and privacy and things like that. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: like the two are related. Sounds like a book in

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Speaker 1: the making, my friend, No question, too much work. Um,

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Speaker 1: All right, well, I guess we should talk about some

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Speaker 1: of their most famous early cases. Let's do that, but

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Speaker 1: let's take a little break first. Alright, So early on,

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Speaker 1: like we said, um, the Supreme Court hadn't hadn't been

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Speaker 1: challenged that much in cases like these, and when they did,

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Speaker 1: they weren't too kind to free speech. It is weird

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Speaker 1: to think of now, for sure. Um, but in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties is when the A C all you began

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Speaker 1: to kind of make a little headway, um against kind

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Speaker 1: of against the Supreme Court. Yeah. Well, they started to

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Speaker 1: win smaller cases that you didn't have to go to

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, and it was kind of like, um,

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Speaker 1: death of repression by a thousand paper cuts, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. So, like all those little cases started

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Speaker 1: to add up where it was like, um, something in

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Speaker 1: some change to the law in Louisville, Kentucky, didn't really

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Speaker 1: have much effect in Missouri. But then they want a

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Speaker 1: case in Missouri. And then if you started to step

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Speaker 1: back and look at it on a map, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this the balance is swinging the

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Speaker 1: other direction. Yeah. But when they did win big Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court cases, they were huge Supreme Court cases. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like some of the most important cases of the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century the a c. L Us either been directly or

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Speaker 1: indirectly involved in, like the Scopes monkey trial that was

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Speaker 1: a big one. Yeah, they And we've talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about evolution lately, UM, and we didn't cover Scopes at all.

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Speaker 1: But uh, in Tennessee there was a law banning teaching

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Speaker 1: evolution in and so the a c LU went out

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Speaker 1: and found a biology teacher named John Scopes, said hey,

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Speaker 1: we would like you to teach evolution, and let's see

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Speaker 1: what happens. And he was prosecuted and the a c

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Speaker 1: l YOU got together with the famous attorney Clarence Darrow

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Speaker 1: to defend him, and he was still found guilty, even

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Speaker 1: though that verdict was overturned later because of a sentencing error.

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Speaker 1: But so the a c l YOU lost, they lost,

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Speaker 1: but it made big headlines and UM was really sort

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Speaker 1: of one of the turning points and establishing like freedom,

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Speaker 1: academic freedom in this country. Yeah, and I think not

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Speaker 1: just as far as the A c l U goes,

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Speaker 1: but any anyone who's kind of UM trying to make

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Speaker 1: a change in the nation. I think one way to

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Speaker 1: do that is to just get people talking about it,

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Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people, especially if they're

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Speaker 1: in the majority or they hold the majority view, make

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Speaker 1: the oftentimes incorrect assumption that everybody else holds the same

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Speaker 1: view too. And I think just if you're just confronted

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Speaker 1: by an opposing point of view, just knowing that it's

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Speaker 1: out there, whether you agree with it or not, can

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Speaker 1: kind of make you reflect and think about the views

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Speaker 1: you hold too, and why you hold them, and whether

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Speaker 1: they're um good views or not. So I think that's

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Speaker 1: the that the the impression I have of the cases

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Speaker 1: that it got people talking, and it made people who

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Speaker 1: agreed with not teaching evolution realize like, whoa were not

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Speaker 1: everybody thinks the same way I do. Yeah, ideally, Uh

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Speaker 1: so you know, you're oponents are going to say that

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Speaker 1: the c U is defending U, their watchdog, protecting everyone's

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Speaker 1: civil liberties, whereas people who poopoo it say no, they're

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Speaker 1: really a left wing organization and they subvert the Constitution

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Speaker 1: and they protect criminals, and they attack religion and they

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Speaker 1: have an extremist agenda. Um, so those are sort of

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Speaker 1: the two sides of the argument. The thing is, though,

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Speaker 1: is like they if you go back over there, their history. Okay.

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Speaker 1: This article points out the perfect example, which one the

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Speaker 1: one where in the thirties and the nineteen forties the

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Speaker 1: a c l U defended both the n double A

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Speaker 1: CP and blacks rights to UM enfranchisement and just equal

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Speaker 1: treatment and UM basically civil rights. And while at the

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Speaker 1: same time, during these same years, the the a c

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Speaker 1: l U is also defending the Ku Klux Klan and

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Speaker 1: it's right to assemble and speak out against UM black rights. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the Skokie. Uh. Now, this is long before Skoki.

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Speaker 1: This is like the thirties and forties. The Skokie was

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Speaker 1: the Nazis. That was another big one. Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess we can go ahead and talk about that, the

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Speaker 1: Skokie free speech controversy. In the late seventies. Uh, a

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Speaker 1: group of neo Nazis in Chicago wanted to uh have

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Speaker 1: permission to go to Skokie, Illinois, not form a barbershop

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Speaker 1: quartet UM, but hold a demonstration. And that was a UM.

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Speaker 1: Skokie was famous for being um the center of a

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Speaker 1: Chicago's Jewish community post Holocaust. A bunch of Jewish people

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Speaker 1: settled there, and so of course the neo Nazis wanted

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Speaker 1: to go to the heart of it all in protest um.

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Speaker 1: They asked the a c LU for help and they

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Speaker 1: got it, and we're granted permission even though they didn't

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Speaker 1: use it. Yeah, because scote. When the Neo Nazis applied

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Speaker 1: for a permit to assemble or um have a parade

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Speaker 1: to Nazi parade, basically they Skokie City Council said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know that you have to post a dollar bond,

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Speaker 1: which is gonna cost you about a grand I just

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Speaker 1: want to let you know about that first. And the

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Speaker 1: new Nazis said, you are trampling our rights. And that's

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Speaker 1: when they got in touch with the a c l U,

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Speaker 1: and the a C l you said, yeah, they're trampling

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Speaker 1: your rights, it sounds like. And they fought too for

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Speaker 1: the Nazis right to assemble based on the idea that

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Speaker 1: that thousand dollar basically fee to assemble was prohibitive and

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Speaker 1: that you know, anybody who wanted to hold a parade

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Speaker 1: or a protest or anything like that in Skokie it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be able to afford that, So protests shouldn't

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Speaker 1: just be open to the people who can afford that

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar bond. And therefore Skokie, I guess relented, But

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Speaker 1: the Nazis never even came. Now, they never even held

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Speaker 1: their protest. Yeah, and that's that's gonna make you unpopular.

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Speaker 1: As an organization if you are campaigning for the rights

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Speaker 1: of the Nazis, but the A c l U bites

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Speaker 1: their tongue and say no, we have to Well, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: you remember the part in the Blues Brothers. This is

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Speaker 1: all um very famously dramatized. Remember the Illinois Nazis. I

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Speaker 1: hate Illinois Nazis and they drive past him and make

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Speaker 1: them jump into the river. Yeah. I guarantee that was

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Speaker 1: because of the Skokie Skokie Nazi thing. It was all

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Speaker 1: around the same time. Yeah, and they were Chicago as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Chuck, have you ever seen you know the mall

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Speaker 1: part where they drive through the mall? I made the

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Speaker 1: slideshow UM nine abandoned malls around America, and that malls

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Speaker 1: in there, it's like abandoned in in this total state

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Speaker 1: of decay. The Dixie Mall, I believe it's what it's

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Speaker 1: called Dixie Square. It's pretty cool. Well, the other one

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Speaker 1: you have in there was Avondale Mall close to where

403
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Speaker 1: I grew up, and that famously had the chase scene

404
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Speaker 1: from Invasion USA. Oh yeah, Chuck Norris drove a truck

405
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Speaker 1: through that mall. I did not know that. And the mall.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of crappy, and I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I remember when it shot there and then they got

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Speaker 1: like a full makeover because of the movie, and uh

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Speaker 1: now it's to Walmart. They tore down. Yeah, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a crappy mall. Well, it looked pretty cool abandoned. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks very cool. Um. Another case back to the A. C.

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Speaker 1: L U. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnett

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Speaker 1: in nt UH school board expelled two thousand students Jehovah's

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Speaker 1: Witness students because they refused to recite the Pledge of

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Speaker 1: Allegiance because it um their religion, forbade worshiping images including

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Flag, and they won the case. Um,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said that you can't force someone to

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Speaker 1: declare your belief in any religion or nation, which goes

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Speaker 1: back to you know, it may be unpopular in certain circles,

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Speaker 1: but you can't say you're a free country and then

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Speaker 1: you can practice any religion you want, but then force

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Speaker 1: people to contradict that religion. You know, if this is

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Speaker 1: the land of the free, you have to allow You

424
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: may not like it. I'm not saying everyone has to

425
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: like this stuff, but it's a pretty slope if you

426
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: start restricting these freedoms. Can you imagine telling some little

427
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: Jehovah's witness kid like, Well, then you can't go to

428
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: school here. If you're not going to say the Pledge

429
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: of Allegiance, you have no right to educate. It's man,

430
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: this country's got not so history. Um what else? Uh?

431
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: Joseph Burston inc. Versus Wilson's one of my favorites. Well,

432
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: basically there's this movie, uh released here in the U s.

433
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: As The Miracle, but it was titled in Europe a

434
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: More with an E on the INSA maybe a more

435
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: A yeah, you know what. The deal with the movie

436
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: was a lady who she had a mental illness and

437
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: thought she was the virgin Mary. Well, she she had

438
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: too much to drink. Oh, I read mental illness. Well,

439
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 1: she was applied with with drink and then had sex

440
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: with a vagabond she thought was St. Joseph, who was

441
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: played by Federico Fellini, who co wrote it. I believe, yeah,

442
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: but did not direct it and got pregnant and believed

443
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: that was an immaculate concept. Right. So the Catholics in

444
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: the fifties done. They did not like the movie, and

445
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 1: they had a lot of cloud in New York at

446
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: the time. And in New York, if you were a

447
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: movie theater and you're planning on showing the Miracle, uh,

448
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: the city said, well, we're just gonna take your your

449
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: license to show movies in general. If you do that,

450
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: do not show this movie. Some places in New York

451
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: where like, this movie's banned. You can't even carry it

452
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: into our city borders if you want to. Um. And

453
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: they took it the A c. L. You stepped in

454
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: and they took it to the Supreme Court, and the

455
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: Supreme Court said, the state has this is a quote,

456
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: the state has no legitimate interest in protecting any or

457
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: all religions from views distasteful of them. So they said,

458
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: you're right, A c. L. You. That was a big

459
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: deal because at the time, religion was basically this kind

460
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: of infallible institution that took precedent over everything else. The

461
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: it was the the the moral attitude of the country

462
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: where it was like, note, religions offended by it, it's bad. Sorry,

463
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: whatever laws you've got that like protect this stupid little movie.

464
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: Who cares, We're banning it because it's it offends a

465
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: religion and because of that and many other things that

466
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Catholic League UH and its leader Bill Donahoe UM are

467
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: huge critics of the a c l U, although he's

468
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: also um praised the A c l You when when

469
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: they've defended Catholic rights too well, Larry Flint, remember he

470
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: thought some of these same battles, and his attorney famously

471
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: was like, I think he's kind of a scumbag too,

472
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: and I think that he's a smart peddler and this

473
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 1: stuff is disgusting. Edward Norton. Yeah, Like, but you can't, uh,

474
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: you know, you can't say he can't do it. Yeah,

475
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: that was a great movie except for Corney Love. Everything

476
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: of everything, but Corny Love was great in that movie.

477
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: Although I did like her A Man on the Moon

478
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: for some reason, I don't. I don't like her much period.

479
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan. Really, do you like Corney Love? Okay?

480
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: Um No, but that if I did the A c

481
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: l you would defend my right to like Courtney Love

482
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: despite it being really unpopular. That is true. H Smith V.

483
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: All Right, the a c l U. UM. Basically what

484
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: was going on there was they had what we're called

485
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: white primaries, UH, the Democratic Party for their elections, and uh,

486
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: it was illegal because it denied blacks a chance to

487
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: uh to vote and to participate. That is exactly what

488
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: it'sunded like. And um, previous to this court said Long said,

489
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: political parties are private organizations. They're not subject to these

490
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: antidiscrimination laws. But the Supreme Court did the right thing

491
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, being able to participate in

492
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: the voting primaries important in this country and if we

493
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: want to remain a democracy, we need to not have

494
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: things like white primaries. So we're going to reach into

495
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: your protected enclave and say you can't do that any more. Yeah,

496
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: because voting this that important. Yeah, which is kind of

497
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: a radical view in and of itself because it overturned

498
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: a precedent and custom. Yeah, I think we should do

499
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: some more. Um. When I was in New York, I

500
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: saw that play, The Cranston plays L B. J. And

501
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: All the Way, and it covers the year the eleven

502
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: months post Kennedy assassination to the his re election bid

503
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: where he got the Civil Rights Act passed. And it

504
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: was fascinating and did all kinds of research about it.

505
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,479
Speaker 1: Was Kranston good, He's great, like completely became the character

506
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: like I forgot it was Cranston. And then after the play,

507
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, he becomes Brian Cranston again to thank everyone,

508
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: and it's just like, it's weird just seeing an actor

509
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: in front of your eyes, like morph back into the

510
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: real person. It's pretty cool. But I want to definitely

511
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: tackle some more civil rights issues because probably the darkest

512
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: spot in our nation's history and been plenty of wasn't

513
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: that long ago either. I can't remember who the person's name,

514
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: but remember we were talking about Kent State and how

515
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: that was like the darkest spot on our nation's history,

516
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: and somebody wrote it was like that was pretty bad,

517
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: but don't forget all of the strikes where you know,

518
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: National Guard troops fired on and killed like a hundred

519
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: striking workers just for striking in the twenties or whatever.

520
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: So whoever that was, thanks for taking me to task,

521
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: because that's absolutely correct. A lot of dark spots, a

522
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: lot of dark spots, a lot of bright spots too,

523
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: sure man. And with that cheery idea, let's take one

524
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: more break. Okay, Sunshine, what do you got next? Uh? Well,

525
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: I guess you talked about the Scopes trial or we

526
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: did for a second. Um, some of the other most

527
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: famous cases in this country's history. Like I know people

528
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: that listen to our podcast on the Japanese and tournament camps. Yeah. Oh,

529
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: and if you can't find it, just go to our

530
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: archive page. We have an archive page now that has

531
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: every single one of the six plus stuff you should

532
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: Know episodes ever made, all in one place. Yeah. It

533
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: took you know, six years to make that happen, but

534
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: we're very proud of that. It's a stuff you should

535
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: Know dot com slash podcast, slash archive, so you will

536
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: find that one in there. Um, was it Japanese stragglers

537
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: or do we do one on internment camps? We do

538
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: one on internment Okay. That was when we FDR rounded

539
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: up or ordered the government to round up people of

540
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: Japanese descent, even some of whom were Americans, Like most

541
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: of them were, Yeah, like natural born America enuane citizens

542
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: to the relocation camps. And the a c l u

543
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: UM jumped on this, and they were they were one

544
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: of the only groups kind of standing up and saying

545
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: this isn't right at the time. Yeah. They also had

546
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: this whole campaign against calling French fries freedom fries, Like

547
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: you can't call it that and everyone's like, boo, sit down,

548
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 1: did they say that now? And then other famous cases

549
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: like Brown the Board of Education and we Wade and

550
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: Dobe Bolton. The a c l U was instrumental in

551
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: all of these. Again, um, even though it's unpopular to

552
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: some people. Fighting for the freedoms of the minorities. Yeah. Also, um,

553
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: recently the the Communications Decency Act, which basically made it

554
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: a crime to knowingly send pornography to minors or something

555
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: like that. He said, Nope, that's you can't tell people

556
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: they can't do that. That's freedom of speech. Yeah, it's

557
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: like a Janet reno idea. And they got smacked down

558
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: like overturned basically by the Supreme Court. Again, unpopular moves.

559
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: They're not out to make friends though. No. And the

560
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: one that I've got this is to me, the most

561
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: despicable case that a c l U has ever taken.

562
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: But take it however you want. Have you heard of

563
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: Nambula the National man Boy there the North American Man

564
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: Boy Love Association. So Namba Nambula is exactly what you think.

565
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: It's basically a club for peders and their website is

566
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: apparently it UH tutorial training Ground Forum chat room place

567
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: to get tips on how to be a more effective

568
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: pederast or pedophile. Uh. And these two guys um they

569
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: are named Charles James and Salvator Sakari. They were convicted

570
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: of murdering a couple's son, Jeffrey, and Um they basically

571
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: said everything we needed to know we learned from Nambula,

572
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: from the Nambula website. And so the Curlies, the people

573
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: the couple whose son was murdered by these child murderers

574
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: UH were went after Nambula and the a c l

575
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: U intervened and said, Nambula is actually an unincorporated association,

576
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: not a corporation, so it's allowed to extol illegal acts

577
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: as long as it's not inciting people telling people to

578
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: go do these illegal acts. It can still appreciate at

579
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: these illegal accident if you look at their website, that's

580
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: all they're doing. And the suit against NAMBLA has dismissed

581
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: again not popular. You know, the l c c LU

582
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: has to you know that they feel forced into some

583
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: of these situations. Probably well, there's oftentimes been a lot

584
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: of shakeups internally where people at the a c l

585
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: You're saying, no, this is this is beyond the line,

586
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: like they're there, this is just too wrong. What these

587
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: people are saying is too despicable, and maybe we shouldn't

588
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: be maybe they shouldn't be allowed to say it. And

589
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: the a c l U as an organization has walked

590
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: that line, lost a lot of members and a lot

591
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: of supporters and a lot of employees, but it's stayed,

592
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, true to its vision and is still around today.

593
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: All right, Let's say you want the a c l

594
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: U to take up your cause. You have to write

595
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: them a letter. You have to outline your problem, maybe

596
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: provide a little evidence, build your case with them, and

597
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: if it's not in modern language association accepted outline form,

598
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: then they just won't even look at it. Probably so um.

599
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: And they basically determine is it a civil liberties case

600
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: that we should get involved with and how should we

601
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: get involved? Um. They don't just go out and see everyone. Um.

602
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: Most times they try to resolve the cases just by

603
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: getting in touch with whoever the government agency and saying, hey, um,

604
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: you might want to check out the constitution because it

605
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: seems like what you're doing now isn't isn't so great

606
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: and it might not even be Constitution Like it could be, Um,

607
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: it could be like we we understand what you're saying,

608
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: but recently there's some legislation passed and it's now law,

609
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: and here's the code if you want to go look

610
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: it up. But you can stop trampling this person's rights now,

611
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: Like the the the staff member at the Reach program

612
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: in Tennessee probably got a letter from the a c

613
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: L year or the director did, saying, actually, it's within

614
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: this child's First Amendment rights to read this Bible, so

615
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: just let him read the Bible. And they were probably like,

616
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: when we're not happy to let him read the bible's Tennessee.

617
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: And there you go, and it was settled, you know. Yeah.

618
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: Another way of looking at it, though, is the a

619
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: c L you can just strong arm people into doing

620
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: what it wants by simply writing a letter. Yeah, or

621
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: if they, you know, think, don't get anywhere with the letter,

622
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: that is when they either have a staff attorney or

623
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: one of their pro bono volunteers take up the case. Um.

624
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: Their headquartered in New York City. But like we said,

625
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: every state has their own chapter and they do operate autonomously,

626
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: and like we said earlier, they don't always agree with

627
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: the federal chapter, and the federal chapter generally leads it

628
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: up to the state to decide their own, like how

629
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: they're going to raise their money, what cases are going

630
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: to take um. But if it becomes a national like

631
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: clearly a national issue, that's when the national organization steps

632
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: in and get your like celebrity at turning into work

633
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: pro bono. Yeah, dershu Witz, bob blah blaw. I guess

634
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: we should talk about how they're funded. Because they're an profit. Um,

635
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: they are generally funded by donations. The A CEL you

636
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: Foundation is tax deductible, and that is the group that

637
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: actually they're sort of split down the middle between the

638
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: foundation and just the A c l U. The foundation

639
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: is who litigates. The a c l U is uh

640
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: focused on political lobbying, and that is not tax deductible. No,

641
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: when you become an a C l you, remember you're

642
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: actually contributing dues to the A c l U, and

643
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: your dues are not tax deductible because you're contributing to

644
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: their lobbying arm. If you contribute to the A C

645
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: l YOU Foundation, then you can that is tax deductible. Yeah,

646
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: And like supporting actual you know, court cases, they also

647
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: maintain UM an endowment, so they have investments UM and

648
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: most controversially, they're also supported through attorney's fees. Yeah. That's

649
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: one of the big controversies for sure. Yeah. So the

650
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: a c l U has a tactic where if they

651
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: win a case, they to recover fees like many do. UM.

652
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: And but when the a c l U does that, uh,

653
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: it's often these fees can run into six figures fairly

654
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: easily depending on the case. UM. And so if you're

655
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: like a little town, you know in Cannon County, Tennessee, Uh,

656
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: if you want to stand up to the a c

657
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: l U, it could very easily mean the difference between

658
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: being in the red and being in the black. UM.

659
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: And if you are, you very well may just say, like,

660
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: forget it, it's not worth it. We can't afford to

661
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: fight this. So yes, let's we'll turn our back on

662
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: our convictions because we want to still have a town

663
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: after the a c LU comes through here. Yeah. And

664
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: that's what critics point to, is that they use that

665
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: UM card is a form of intimidation, Like they can

666
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: just say that in that letter, Like, first of all,

667
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: here's the legislation that proves our client is right. Secondly,

668
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: if you want to take this to court, our estimate

669
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: is that it's gonna cost you six thousand dollars if

670
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: we win. Do you really want to spend six thousand

671
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: dollars fighting this? Yeah? Think about it. Yeah, Huh get

672
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: back to me. I've left three boxes, yes, no, or

673
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: maybe please check one by E O D tomorrow well

674
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: and then the other. The other criticism there, of course,

675
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: is uh, that is government money. It's your tax banging

676
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: dollars indirectly funding the a c l U through these cases. So, um,

677
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, if you hate the a c l U,

678
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: you're gonna probably bang that drum. I mean, imagine if

679
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: your town says, yeah, we're gonna fight you, and then

680
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: they lose and they have to pay the A c

681
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: l USE fees. Yeah, that that's not that's not coming

682
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: out of the mayor's like savings. That's like your tax money.

683
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: So you just paid this organization that you now probably despise. Yeah,

684
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: let's say a c l you man, that's like that's

685
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 1: classic a CLU right there. You know. So where did

686
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: this whole card carrying member uh insult come from? Michael

687
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: du Cacus? Of course, from what that's what the article

688
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: said that he was the first person to probably proclaimed

689
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: to be a card carrying member. Yeah, and it happened

690
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: like just perfectly. It was du Caucus in an interview

691
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: in The New Yorker talking about the a c l U. Yeah,

692
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: come on, Uh so he says he's a card carrying member.

693
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: He said proudly that he was a card carrying member

694
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: of the a c l U to just basically to

695
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: get across his liberal bona fides. Yeah, and conservatives said, hey,

696
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: that's a great insult that we can use in the future.

697
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: George H. W. Bush in particular, he basically said, he's

698
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: a card carrying member the a c l U. Everybody

699
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: hates the a c l U. They defend Nazis, and

700
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: that was that. He's right, Yeah, they do defend Nazis. Yeah,

701
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: or they have and they will in the future of

702
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: some Nazis need help, Yeah, to the rescue. But they're

703
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: also defending little boy and Tennessee, he wants to read

704
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: his Bible. That's right. It's all over the map, yep.

705
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: And that is called device. Uh yeah. If you are

706
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: you anything else, I got nothing else. If you want to,

707
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: I love this one. If you want to learn more

708
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: about the A C L you you can type that

709
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: word in the search part how stuff works dot com

710
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: And I said search part. So it's time for the

711
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: listener mail. I'm gonna call this converted fiance. Uh. And

712
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: this is a gentleman from England who whose wife I'm sorry, fiance, Kathy,

713
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: I did not want to listen. They're getting married in May. Um.

714
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: So he talks a little bit about how much he

715
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: likes the show and I will skip that part and

716
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: get right to the meat. Um. I tried to get

717
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: my fiance converted. It started with the JFK podcast, with

718
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: no luck. She moaned and said it was weird, which

719
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: I thought that was a very straight ahead podcast actually. Uh.

720
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: Not being one to quit, I tried a few weeks

721
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: later on Living Without a Fridge. Um. As soon as

722
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: the intro began, she groaned, he's moaning and groaning. Has

723
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 1: she ever heard us before? No, this is brand new

724
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: to her. What's your deal, Kathy? She hate it, said, well,

725
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: let me get to it. Um this time. Halfway through, though,

726
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: she began commenting on some of the content, such as

727
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: placing your onions in the fridge against all odds and

728
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: next podcast saved on the playlist was man Hunts. As

729
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: soon as she heard the topic, she shut me up

730
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: from talking and listened intently. Not bad, I thought, I

731
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: didn't even think that was one of our better ones. Well,

732
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: she liked it. Uh. This morning, though, was the breakthrough.

733
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: We were in the supermarket and wanted to purchase some avocados.

734
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: None were ripe, and Cathy said we could do that

735
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: thing that bloke suggested and put the avocados in a

736
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: paper bag in a banana to help it ripen. She

737
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: took your advice, so while I thought. Later in the

738
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: morning she was reading about how time was running out

739
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: to find the signal for the missing black Box from

740
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: flight three seventy. She turned to me and asked why

741
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: they couldn't find the signal, and I said, you know

742
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: what stuff you should know has a podcast on that.

743
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: And the next day, in the car ride to the

744
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: cinema which is what they called Movies and England, which

745
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: apparently are forty minutes drive away, she said, uh. She

746
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: requested to actually play the black Box episode success. Well,

747
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: this guy really knows how to manipulate his fiance, so

748
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: he says, if any of your listeners have had trouble

749
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: getting their partners into it. I would suggest you keep trying.

750
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: Eventually you'll find an episode or two that will capture

751
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: their interest and they'll be hooked. And that is from

752
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: guy uh ben Venista in Horsham, UK. Nice name and

753
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: city name, guy. So thanks Kathy for joining up to

754
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: the to the club. Kathy soon to be ben Venista,

755
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to the party. Yes, I think Kathy's gonna keep

756
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: herung man. Well, okay, Kathy, either way, as long as

757
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: you're listening to stuff you should know, we don't care. Uh.

758
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 1: If you want to let us know how you turn

759
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: somebody converted them, or if they you just can't convert them,

760
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: we'd be very interested to find out why. I agreed,

761
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: Why why don't they like us? It's not like we

762
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: care or anything, but you know, we just want to

763
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: know you. Again. As I said, you can hang out

764
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: with us on social media Pinterest, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Just

765
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: search your favorite web browser for stuff you should know

766
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: s y, s K, Josh and Chuck something like that

767
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: and it should all come up. You can send us

768
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: an email to Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com, and

769
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: as always, hang out with us at our home on

770
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: the Web Stuff you Should Know dot com for more

771
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is It How

772
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: stuff Works? Dot com