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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Battleground Podcast. We are back with

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Speaker 1: the second part of my conversation with Chris Cowen. Chris

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Speaker 1: Cowen was in the Outlaw Patune. He was one of

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Speaker 1: my squad leaders, and now he's a police officer and

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Speaker 1: he's done all sorts of amazing things since he's been

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Speaker 1: out of the military. But this is the second part

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Speaker 1: of our conversation. The first part, like we intended just

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Speaker 1: to jump or at least I intended to jump right

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Speaker 1: into the second combat deployment to Afghanistan. But as is

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Speaker 1: typically the case with Chris, like he and I will

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Speaker 1: talk four hours before we actually get on topic, and

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Speaker 1: I guess that's just that's just how it goes when

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Speaker 1: you serve in combat together. Chris, welcome back, man. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for giving me more of your time, and thank

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Speaker 1: you for coming back for part two of this amazing conversation.

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Speaker 1: How's it going good?

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on Sean, I appreciate it. Awesome man,

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Speaker 2: awesome good.

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Speaker 1: So we left off with you know, lying to your

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Speaker 1: first sergeant and then getting in a huge fight in

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Speaker 1: Watertown and coming back from your first combat deployment from Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: having you know, been shot at and been blown up,

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Speaker 1: and then you turn then we turned right around. I

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Speaker 1: mean I got to the unit in like I think

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Speaker 1: May of two thousand and five, and we turned right

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Speaker 1: around and immediately started training for the second deployment.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And so what you know, I remember getting to the

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Speaker 1: unit and thinking, you know, we talked a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this in the first episode, just jumping right into

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Speaker 1: things at the joint, right in his training center, and

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Speaker 1: just immediately training for war. But for me, okay, so

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Speaker 1: for me, it was like a new thing, Chris. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was a brand new platoon leader. I had never

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Speaker 1: been deployed before. But what was it like for you,

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Speaker 1: and not just you, but also like maybe maybe your family,

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Speaker 1: What was it like for you to have to turn

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Speaker 1: around and go right back?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question.

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Speaker 3: I guess, you know, I pretty much knew that this

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Speaker 3: was going to be my last deployment. I wasn't planning

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Speaker 3: on making a career out of the Army, and I

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Speaker 3: guess I was just looking at it, I think, in

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Speaker 3: some ways a little naively that you know, it was

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Speaker 3: probably gonna be more along the lines of how my

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Speaker 3: first deployment went.

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Speaker 2: Which I you know, I couldn't have been further from

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Speaker 2: the truth. It was a totally different deployment than my

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Speaker 2: first deployment, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, as far as that goes, you know, I had,

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Speaker 3: you know, before we deployed. A few months before I deployed,

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Speaker 3: you know, I got married, my sense was divorced, and

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Speaker 3: you know, remarried, got four great kids, you know, four

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Speaker 3: great boys that I love, and uh but yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: at the time, it was really it was you know,

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Speaker 3: my first marriage, and it was really I just had

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Speaker 3: my mom, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I was never close with my dad. My dad never

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Speaker 2: really had anything to do with me my whole life.

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Speaker 3: So it was just one of those things kind of

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Speaker 3: just let's get through it and let's get home and

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Speaker 3: let's you.

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Speaker 2: Know, let's go to the next chapter. You know.

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Speaker 3: So I was kind of thinking out towards what's my

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Speaker 3: life going to look like in a few years from

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Speaker 3: now from that deployment, you know what I mean, and

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Speaker 3: just trying to get home safe. But yeah, my thoughts

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Speaker 3: were it was going to be you know, yeah, we'll

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Speaker 3: go over there, you know, probably won't be too much

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Speaker 3: going on like the last like the first one, but

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Speaker 3: I was wrong.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, Chris, talk about if you don't mind

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Speaker 1: talk about what you know your upbringing and growing up

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You and I have talked about it

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I don't know how much you know,

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Speaker 1: how far in depth you want to go into any

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. But you know, you were one hell

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Speaker 1: of a non commissioned officer, and I think you, along

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Speaker 1: with all the non commission officers and soldiers in Opportune,

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Speaker 1: really were one of the main reasons why all of

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Speaker 1: us got home, or many of us got home alive.

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Speaker 1: But how how do you think that your upbringing you

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Speaker 1: said your dad wasn't around a whole lot. How do

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Speaker 1: you think that shaped the person that you became later?

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Speaker 1: Or did it? Did you think about it at all?

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Speaker 2: It did? I think that.

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Speaker 3: I sometimes think, you know, those of us who've been

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Speaker 3: like the most wounded in certain ways, sometimes God can

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Speaker 3: like use those things, you know, the painful things that

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Speaker 3: that we've experienced in our lives, the traumas that we've

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Speaker 3: that we've been through in face you know, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 3: growing up on a small town UH with the dad

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Speaker 3: who's a successful businessman, who is rich, who had nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with you. I mean, that's so that's basically

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Speaker 3: the quintessential bastard child, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 3: that's basically what I came out of know. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's tough, you know what I mean. I didn't fully

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Speaker 3: realize that until I got older. I kind of just

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Speaker 3: locked all that stuff away. I think it made me tough,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. You grow up without a dad,

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Speaker 3: I think it makes you you tougher in some ways.

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Speaker 3: But it's also very dangerous because you obviously, no statistically

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Speaker 3: most kids that grow up without dads either end up

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Speaker 3: you know, usually dead or in prison or have You know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of issues obviously without having a father

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Speaker 3: in your life. You know, I think we need mothers

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Speaker 3: and fathers in our children's lives, you know.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it was just a u I

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Speaker 2: would say, it was just very you know.

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Speaker 3: I think in my early life, you know, I found

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Speaker 3: some confidence when I was a teenager through a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine.

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Speaker 2: His dad was they had football coach in our town

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Speaker 2: and he was like my best friend.

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Speaker 3: My freshman year in high school and I played football

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Speaker 3: that year. I was one hundred and eight pounds start.

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Speaker 2: My freshman year in high school. The doctor was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't even like I if I was your father,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't let you play. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't have a dad, so this sign of thing,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: But uh yeah, So it was just it was football.

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Speaker 3: That's tough when you're one hundred and eight pounds to

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Speaker 3: play play football, you know what I mean. So but

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Speaker 3: I think I was a tough kid, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. And uh, I liked football, But really what

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Speaker 3: I really gravitate towards is my my friend's dad was like,

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Speaker 3: you should really wrestle.

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Speaker 2: That could be a good sport for you. And I

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Speaker 2: got into wrestling in my freshman year and it was

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Speaker 2: like that was my sport. It just that that sport

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Speaker 2: for me gave me so much confidence going forward to

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Speaker 2: my life.

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Speaker 3: It was such a huge, hugely beneficial thing for me

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Speaker 3: to be a wrestler.

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Speaker 2: And uh there's just something about it one on one combat.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's this mutual respect wrestlers have for each other.

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Speaker 2: There's just it's the sport. It really is a great sport.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 3: You know, you put yourself out there in front of everybody,

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Speaker 3: and if you win, it's on you, and if you lost,

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Speaker 3: it's on you, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Chris. Like I, I wrestled as well, just a

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Speaker 1: few years. But you know, it was I think I

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Speaker 1: started wrestling in second or third grade. But and now

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Speaker 1: I look back at it as an adult and I

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Speaker 1: I like the sport. I love it. I actually like

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Speaker 1: watching it on TV. And I think that appreciation for

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Speaker 1: wrestling has led me to really love you ultimate fighting

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Speaker 1: in UFC and the training that goes into that. But

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Speaker 1: like as a kid, it was from a from a

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Speaker 1: pressure standpoint, man, it was it was almost too much

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Speaker 1: for me. I don't think I could take it, you know.

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Speaker 1: And just just the idea of sitting there with your

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Speaker 1: little Matt slip, you know, at a tournament on a bench,

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Speaker 1: like waiting thirty forty minutes like in line to you know,

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Speaker 1: for Matt space to wrestle, and sitting next to your

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Speaker 1: opponent the whole time. That was really really nerve wracking.

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Speaker 1: And God, when I was in third grade, I can't

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Speaker 1: quite remember what I can't quite remember what weight class

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Speaker 1: I was in, but it got to a point where,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was a fairly competitive wrestler, but being

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Speaker 1: from western Pennsylvania, there are lots of very very very

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Speaker 1: good wrestlers around here, and I would always stumble into

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Speaker 1: this dude. His name was Mike Kroyle. He went to Norway,

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Speaker 1: and we would always be in the final and he

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Speaker 1: would just always whip my ass. And so I got trapped.

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Speaker 1: I got trapped in this weight class having to wrestle

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Speaker 1: this dude all the time and then make it all

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Speaker 1: the way to the finals and run the gaunt and

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Speaker 1: let in some tournament man and just get my ass.

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Speaker 1: Would bite his kid every time. It just got old,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a tough sport, and it's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's some people that you know, yeah, there's guys that

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Speaker 3: I wrestled in high school that there's one guy in particular, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I never beat him, Like my whole high school,

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Speaker 3: I wrestled him every year, and like, really, my junior

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Speaker 3: year I should have I was good enough to beat him,

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Speaker 3: but I just I wasn't in my head yet, you know.

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Speaker 3: But I did beat in my senior year to go

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Speaker 3: to state and then it was the last time we

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Speaker 3: ever wrestled. It was very bittersweet. He was a really

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Speaker 3: great guy. His family was awesome too. You know, but

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Speaker 3: it was just one of those things like I went

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Speaker 3: because I beat him, like he didn't go, you know,

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Speaker 3: I knocked him out with running for state because we

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Speaker 3: wrestling one forty five, which is a super competitive weight

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Speaker 3: class in high school, and uh, we had like basically

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Speaker 3: the way it was stacked up, we had like eight

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Speaker 3: people who were deserving to go to state, and about

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Speaker 3: only four could make it.

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Speaker 2: So it was just a bloodbath. I ended up getting

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Speaker 2: second and going to state and then yeah, but it

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Speaker 2: was it was wrestling with a lot of great lessons

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Speaker 2: in wrestling, a lot of great things that that I uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, there was a guy I wrestled.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I should say his name or not.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's appropriate or not, but like

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Speaker 3: his name was Bill Hanson.

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Speaker 2: He was just really.

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Speaker 3: Super good wrestler from this Catholic, private Catholic school, like

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Speaker 3: like the richer kids went and stuff and where the

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Speaker 3: poor kids from, you know, MT and stuff. And uh,

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Speaker 3: I wrestled in my freshman year because I got called

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Speaker 3: up to varsity at one nineteen because a kid got hurt.

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Speaker 2: But I was only went in like one fifteen or fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I was wrestling one twelve.

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Speaker 3: Before that was a little guy, and uh, this kid's

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Speaker 3: a good wrestler, a very good wrestler. He was a sophomore,

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Speaker 3: one of the top wrestlers in the state, and all

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Speaker 3: I just the only thing I didn't want to do

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Speaker 3: is like, don't let him pin you, you know, because

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Speaker 3: I was trying to get points for my team. So

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Speaker 3: if he pins me, that's like six points for them

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Speaker 3: in the dual match and the dual meet, and so,

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Speaker 3: you know, basically I held on and he he had

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Speaker 3: like a major decision on me.

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Speaker 2: I think he won.

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Speaker 3: He got like four points for his team, but I,

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Speaker 3: you know, I got through.

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Speaker 2: The match without him just absolutely completely crushing me. You know.

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Speaker 3: So it was like that was like a building block,

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Speaker 3: and I was like in my house, like I want

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Speaker 3: to beat him one day.

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Speaker 2: And then I didn't.

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Speaker 3: End up wrestling him as a sophomore, but my junior

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Speaker 3: year he came around and I wrestled him in a tournament,

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Speaker 3: had him on his back, the ref called us out.

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Speaker 2: I thought we were in. My coaches thought we were

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Speaker 2: in because I had him stuck.

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Speaker 3: But he ended up beating me that match by a

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Speaker 3: couple of points, and then we came back to our

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Speaker 3: home match, and uh, there was a lot of people there,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people at school, teachers and stuff, and uh,

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Speaker 3: and he was, you know, I don't know, we can

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, scrub the name or something later.

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Speaker 3: But he was kind of a little arrogant, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of arrogant kind of guy, you know, and just

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Speaker 3: a lot of people didn't like his persona.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: He ended up throwing me out, like after the ref

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Speaker 3: blue the whistle, he threw me like into the stands,

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Speaker 3: like everybody's booming. It's like this huge like it's this

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Speaker 3: is this huge fight. And towards the end of the

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Speaker 3: first round, and he stepped into a head and arm

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Speaker 3: I just I just crushed him with it and I

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Speaker 3: put him right to his back. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: I didn't pin him. I thought he was stuck, but.

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Speaker 2: He got out of it because we had about five

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Speaker 2: seconds left in the round.

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Speaker 3: And ended up being I beat him eight to seven.

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Speaker 3: But it was just it was a crazy wrestling match.

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Speaker 3: But that was and that was when I knew like

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Speaker 3: I had arrived in wrestling. That's when I knew that

256
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Speaker 3: like I had to abild these you know, to uh,

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Speaker 3: to go out there and accomplish like goals that I

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Speaker 3: had set for myself, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So that's it.

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Speaker 3: That's the confidence building that wrestling gave me. Those those

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Speaker 3: types of stories, you know, And that's why I tell

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Speaker 3: my kids with their sports, like you're gonna have these

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Speaker 3: moments where you'll look back it's like, Yep, that was

264
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Speaker 3: a defining time and when I played football or when

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Speaker 3: I wrestled or whatever it is that you're doing it

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Speaker 3: and it just works into your life, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean down the road, when you're in the army,

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Speaker 3: when you're doing something really difficult, if you're trying to

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Speaker 3: start a business, whatever it is you're trying to do,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like you go back to those times

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Speaker 3: or you force through and you fought through adversity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I accomplish your goal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's amazing, Chris, because you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking back my experienced wrestling and just like I mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: the immense amount of pressure that you're under all the time.

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Speaker 1: You really it's one on one, like if you lose,

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Speaker 1: there's nobody else's fault. I mean, so you're right, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of lessons in there on accountability and

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Speaker 1: ability to handle pressure and grit, determination, toughness, and I remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, my parents, my mom and my dad came

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Speaker 1: to every every match, and my dad was always a

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Speaker 1: coach on the side of the mat, coaching me and

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Speaker 1: stuff I don't And you did all of that without

284
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Speaker 1: having a dad around, and it just makes it even

285
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Speaker 1: more amazing to me that you were able to do

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Speaker 1: all of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a sport that typically, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I pretty much everyone I wrestled with ted

289
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Speaker 3: dad's you know what I mean, I was like the

290
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Speaker 3: only I can't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to say I was the only one.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's other there's always other kids out there.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, as far as like on my team or

294
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Speaker 3: people i'd see, you know, typically their dads wrestled and

295
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Speaker 3: their dads get them into wrestling, And no, it.

296
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Speaker 2: Was not the case for me.

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Speaker 1: You know what was that?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, did you ever think about that as

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Speaker 1: a kid, Like, because you just said, like, well, everybody

301
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Speaker 1: that that I wrestled with had dads, do you ever

302
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Speaker 1: feel left out?

303
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Speaker 3: I think I wasn't ready to face it then, you know,

304
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Speaker 3: I think I was too, I was too young. I

305
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Speaker 3: always try to be of the mindset of being grateful, like, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, if my dad, you know, my mom wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have gotten together that one time or whatever, I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be here. So, you know, thanks for giving me life,

309
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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I guess that's how I

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Speaker 3: thought about it. But you know, obviously, as the years

311
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Speaker 3: ago and then you start having kids, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: and then you start realizing, wow, this is it's not right,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, it's kind of yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: that's kind of how it how it went for me.

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Speaker 2: So it took a while. It took a while for

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Speaker 2: me to really to drill down to it.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean you you are one of the

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Speaker 1: toughest people that I've ever met. I mean, I mean

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Speaker 1: you were scrappy as hell too. You're mentally tough. I

320
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Speaker 1: mean we I mean, your your nickname in the platoon,

321
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Speaker 1: like we called you the constrictor because every time you

322
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Speaker 1: walk by me, you put me in some headlock and

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Speaker 1: try to choke me out. You're always punching people, fighting people,

324
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Speaker 1: super aggressive. So it's not surprising to me that you

325
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Speaker 1: found yourself even as a gangly hundred pound kid on

326
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Speaker 1: a wrestling had getting thrown into the stands and some

327
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Speaker 1: bench some bench clearing and brawl. Like somehow, somehow, Chris

328
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Speaker 1: Cowan always finds his way right into the moments like that,

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Speaker 1: even as a kid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was fun.

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Speaker 1: So it was fun. So so do you think that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that all of these experiences

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Speaker 1: made you into a better leader, a better non commission

334
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Speaker 1: officer in the Army when you finally got there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely think so.

336
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Speaker 3: You know, I think, you know, some of you know,

337
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 3: the childhood traumas, things that I had to face in

338
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 3: my life, the adversities, you know, those things can make

339
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 3: stronger if you let them, you know what I mean.

340
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Speaker 3: And yeah, absolutely they did, and obviously a lot of

341
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,760
Speaker 3: things happened, you know, and then you just kind of

342
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 3: build on it, you know when you go into the uh,

343
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Speaker 3: like when I went into the army, you know, I remember,

344
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 3: like I don't know if I said this for our

345
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 3: last part, but like our first you know, like when

346
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Speaker 3: you're in infantry training and basic and you have your

347
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Speaker 3: one station unit training and we do the infantry portion,

348
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 3: you got your you know, you do like the twelve

349
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Speaker 3: mile foot march and your rock and all your gear

350
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Speaker 3: and you do your patrol basis and you do all

351
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 3: these missions and it was so hard, Like it was

352
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Speaker 3: so difficult. I was like, this is like terrible, Like

353
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Speaker 3: this is so tough, and like this company commander.

354
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Speaker 2: Was like, hey, just this is like the easiest field

355
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 2: problem that you guys ever have.

356
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Speaker 3: This is the easiest And I'm like, no way. He

357
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: was dead right, he was completely right. But you just

358
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 3: get so tough when you just live through that stuff

359
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 3: and it's like you're just wet and cold for days

360
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 3: and a week or two weeks, you know, you just

361
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 3: it just builds a toughness in you, you know what

362
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 3: I mean.

363
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 2: It's just you can't be broken, you know what I mean.

364
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Speaker 2: And I think that's that's the type of attitude that

365
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 2: a good infantry soldier needs to have, is that you're

366
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Speaker 2: just you're not going to quit ever, you know what

367
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Speaker 2: I mean.

368
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 3: So's yeah, it was kind of a build up, you know,

369
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 3: from my previous wrestling and other things. But then obviously

370
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,360
Speaker 3: you know when you go through the training, you know, yeah,

371
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 3: you just you get you get stronger, you get.

372
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Speaker 2: Mentally tougher, physically tougher, you know.

373
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Speaker 1: So, so let's talk about Afghanistan Part two, your second deployment.

374
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 1: Did the unit in the train up? Because we talked

375
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Speaker 1: a lot about train up in the in the first

376
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 1: episode of your of your first unit. It was the

377
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 1: same unit, but like oftentimes, you know, you do a deployment,

378
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 1: guys get home, they move, they transition, there's like a

379
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 1: personnel turnover. So same unit, different people. What was there

380
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,159
Speaker 1: any significant train up differences that you noticed, you know,

381
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 1: having you know, comparing the two units, Like, did we

382
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Speaker 1: do anything differently in the second train up? Was it

383
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Speaker 1: more difficult?

384
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Speaker 2: Uh?

385
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: Like, talk a little bit about that before we jump

386
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Speaker 1: into the act in country.

387
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I mean it was, I would say, so,

388
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Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember when I went to Fort and Ox,

389
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, I think was that I

390
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 3: think that was before my first deployment. I'm that was

391
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 3: a tough train up. But I will say that just

392
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: the overall train up for an extended period of time

393
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 3: was definitely more difficult the second time around. Under Colonel Toner.

394
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 3: I mean it was just ranges all week. We were

395
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,120
Speaker 3: constantly just foot marking everywhere and.

396
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Speaker 2: Just just go go, go live fire exercises.

397
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Speaker 3: You know, we're doing mount We're doing a lot of

398
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 3: mount stuff. You know, we're doing I think we've been

399
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,119
Speaker 3: through some trenches and stuff, and we were doing a

400
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 3: lot of different stuff, you know it there's a lot

401
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 3: of different infantry tactics, you know, we're doing, uh, you know,

402
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of like it's been so long

403
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 3: since they went over the battle drills, but you know

404
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,679
Speaker 3: like squad attack, platoon attack, all these you know, and

405
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 3: then just working them into live fires and just yeah,

406
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 3: we're really going hard, you know.

407
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Speaker 1: So we did we did. It's crazy. So we did

408
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: a live fire, you know, and just so people watching

409
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: listening live fires, like you're you're out in the field,

410
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: you have a mission objective a town, a building, taking

411
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,959
Speaker 1: out a high value target. But you're using live rounds

412
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 1: and you're shooting, you're moving, you're communicating together as a

413
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: unit using using live rounds. So I mean, obviously, if

414
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: you miscalculate something or somebody has an accidental discharge, somebody

415
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: could get wounded or hurt. And you talk about some

416
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 1: of the stuff we did in the train up there,

417
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 1: and you don't think you weren't in the platoon yet

418
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 1: at this point. But my first live fire training exercise,

419
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: it was all about assaulting this town. And I had to,

420
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, emplace this support by fire position in a

421
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: base of fire with two forty Bravo machine guns and

422
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,120
Speaker 1: this big line of people on this ridge line overlooking

423
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Speaker 1: the town. And then I had to move directly east,

424
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: you know, probably a kilometer east and move the assault

425
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: element down and get them online and get them ready attack.

426
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Speaker 1: And then you know, just as I emplaced, I had

427
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 1: to have mortars firing on the objective and I had

428
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: to turn them off the moment the support by fire

429
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: opened up. It was like incredibly, incredibly complicated, and Chris

430
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: I got, as a young platoonleter, like I got recocked

431
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 1: on that probably twenty times, like the men in an

432
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 1: outlaw patoon wanted to murder me. I just I couldn't

433
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 1: get it right. And and I remember thinking at the time, like,

434
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Speaker 1: my god, this is ridiculous. The standard that Colonel Toner

435
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: holds for for these, for me as a young leader,

436
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: but also everybody else was just it seemed unreasonably high.

437
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: And I remember like one time we got recocked, we

438
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: had a soldier like on oppatunity. Finally, everything goes right,

439
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: everything goes perfect, and I'm like, finally we're done, and

440
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: we get across the objective. Everybody assaults through the objective

441
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,479
Speaker 1: and pulls three and or sixty degree security and then

442
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: one of one of the soldiers lays down literally right

443
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: by Colonel Toner's ankle with a squad automatic weapon and

444
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,439
Speaker 1: accidentally discharges it like within an inch of his ankle.

445
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: He gets to like jump up over it, and we

446
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,959
Speaker 1: were just like some of a bitch had to get

447
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: recocked all the way back to do it all over again.

448
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: But man, I think that stuff paid off. That paid

449
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 1: off for us.

450
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 3: It's complicated though, like people don't you know if people

451
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 3: are listening, like, haven't ever done something like a live fire,

452
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like going to the range where

453
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: you're in a static position.

454
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: You're nobody's moving, everybody's online. You know what I mean?

455
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:00,640
Speaker 2: This is?

456
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: This is you've got every people in front of you,

457
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 3: You've got people the side, You've got people moving different directions.

458
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 3: You've got like your flanking elements, and you've got your

459
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 3: support by fire who's like actually putting rounds down range.

460
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: And then you have to have them.

461
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 3: Shift fire, lift fire, do all these all these things

462
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 3: that have to be in place, and you said when

463
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 3: you got mortars coming in, like they got it being

464
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 3: at the right time, and you got to shut it

465
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: off at the right time as you're hitting the objective

466
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 3: or whatever it may be. So yeah, there's a lot

467
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: of pieces, and that's just a static live fire extra

468
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 3: that's not combat. That's just literally just a walk through

469
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 3: live fire exercise exacting the pieces around the way they're

470
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 3: supposed to.

471
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: Move, imagine. So so just think about it like this,

472
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 1: like you have your support by fire lighting up the objective,

473
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 1: and your assault element starts moving towards the objective to flank.

474
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: If they don't hear your radio call about hey, cease

475
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: fire or shift fire, so you shift fire so you

476
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: can continue to assault. They're still shooting the objective when

477
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: you arrive and people die. And so this isn't like

478
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, conventional infantry ums because again you and I

479
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: talked about this in the first episode about how everything

480
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 1: nowadays is all about special Forces, Special Operations, Navy CEOs.

481
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: We're not a small unit infantry between forty plus people.

482
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: And then you have attachments with mortars and everything like that.

483
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: So if you want to get a sense of like

484
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: infantry combat. Watch Saving Private Ryan, or watch watch watch

485
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: Band of Brothers, because that's more what it's like. But

486
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: it's unbelievably complicated. But Chris, I think it saved lives.

487
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: I think it made me a much better leader in Afghanistan,

488
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: especially one that you know, when it came time to

489
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: people really trying to kill us. It allowed me to

490
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: think on my feet a lot better. It allowed me

491
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: to think outside the box. Like knowing you talked about

492
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: the squad battle drills or all those battle drills that

493
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 1: were drilled into our heads for a year leading up

494
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: to the deployment. Man, I knew those things inside and out.

495
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: And not only that, I knew the troops. I knew

496
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: what motivated them. I knew like how they thought. And

497
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: when we got to Afghanistan, it just allowed me to

498
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: think outside the box. And I think that training saved

499
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: a lot of lives.

500
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: Well, it did.

501
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 3: And we did a lot of just training reacting to

502
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 3: ambushes because you knew you'd go over there, Like a

503
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 3: lot of what's gonna happen is you're going to be

504
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: ambushed first?

505
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: Is what's going to happen?

506
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: Like ninety nine percent of the time, right, So you know,

507
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: it's just like if a vehicle goes down, how are

508
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: you going to get this thing hooked up and get

509
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: it out of there as quick as possible when you're

510
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: in the kill zone, you know, getting through the kill zone.

511
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 2: How you're going to accomplish that? How are you gonna

512
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

513
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 3: So I just remember doing a lot of those drills,

514
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: and uh, those were important for over there because that's

515
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: a huge thing we faced all the time, is getting

516
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 3: ambushed in some wady system, you know what I mean

517
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: as we're rolling through.

518
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: So so talk to me about your first firefight in

519
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: the second deployment in Afghanistan. Was that with me? Or

520
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: was that with the command?

521
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: You know, it was probably because I was with the

522
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: commander's truck.

523
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: Was it tent really?

524
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: What's that?

525
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: Was it June tenth?

526
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was June tenth, Yeah, because I didn't have

527
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 2: anything before that.

528
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 3: I was, you know, I was in the FABMA time

529
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 3: and I would we would come out whenever I would

530
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 3: come out, whenever the commander came out.

531
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was it was June tenth.

532
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, so when I say June tenth, it's just

533
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: so everybody understands it. That was like one of our

534
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: biggest firefights in in that deployment. I mean I had

535
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: set in with Michaeltoon the night before on June ninth.

536
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: You know, had twenty four people on the on the ground,

537
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: five gun trucks. You know, we had what we thought

538
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: was the high ground, and we just got attacked by

539
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: a massive enemy force the next day. I mean, they

540
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: had two hundred plus people I think outnumbered us ten

541
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: to one. Like we were, we got smacked. We got

542
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: hit hard within the first minute of the engagement. Every

543
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: single person, all the key leaders in Michaeltoon were wounded,

544
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: including me, And you know, we're trying to call for help,

545
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: but you know we we weren't. We tried to call

546
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: in for cast like close air support, but they were

547
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: diverted down south supporting troops in contact down in Helman Province.

548
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: We had no air support for a long time. And

549
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: Chris like, there was a point where I thought we

550
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: were going to get overrun, and then out of nowhere,

551
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: you and Captain Captain Dye are Company Commander along with

552
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: Delta Company, like a multiple tune show up out of

553
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: nowhere to reinforce us. And then we just spot to

554
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: a stalemate for forever. It was crazy.

555
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was nuts.

556
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 3: I mean because you know, I was as a commander's

557
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 3: gunner that day doing my rt O duties, my COMO duties,

558
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: slash on the gunner when we go out.

559
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I heard you. You know, we heard

560
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: the shots.

561
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: We heard like we heard it kick up, and it

562
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 3: was like you could sell something's going like going down

563
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 3: because we were a couple of kilometers.

564
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: From you guys.

565
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: I think about not positive, but maybe two or three

566
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 3: kilometers away.

567
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just north of US. I think just

568
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: north of US, but two or three kilometers in Afghanistan

569
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: with all the mountains and hills, it could be a

570
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: thirty minute drive.

571
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how long it took us

572
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: to get to you. I mean obviously the second we.

573
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: Heard Generator, it was just like there was like twelve

574
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 3: guys down within like like less than a minute.

575
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: Do you even remember, I don't even I got I

576
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: got you just said, I don't even I almost.

577
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: I just kept saying he's down, he's down, He's like

578
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: Baldon's down, like you just you know, just everybody was down, down, down.

579
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 3: We got twelve casualties. We got thirteen and then it

580
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: was just like holy shit, you know what I mean.

581
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: And so I'm like, we got to fucking go.

582
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: We got to get there like now, because I thought

583
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: you guys are wrong, going to be dead, you know

584
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: what I mean. I was like, we have to fucking

585
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: get there, like hurry the fuck up, you know what

586
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: I mean. We got to move. So that's what we did.

587
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: What were you doing? Like? What were you doing there?

588
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: Like?

589
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: Because you know, when you when you do mission briefs

590
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: and convoy briefs, you get a sense of of what

591
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: UH units are around you. Obviously you don't want to

592
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: call for fire or artillery or shooting a direction where

593
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: friendlies are, but you guys are out there. I don't remember.

594
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: Could be totally wrong because I don't remember this, but

595
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: I don't think that that was supposed to be a

596
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: planned mission. You know, why were you even there in

597
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: the first place? What were you doing?

598
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't remember.

599
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: I don't know why we were there, you know, I

600
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: don't know if it was something because I don't think

601
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: we were out there the night before. I think we

602
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 3: went out that day if I remember right, Like, I

603
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: don't think we went out.

604
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: On June ninth with you guys.

605
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: No you didn't.

606
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I mean I think we went out.

607
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: If you weren't there, if you weren't there doing whatever

608
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: it was that you were doing, I don't think we

609
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: would have made it.

610
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: I think we would have been overrun. Yeah, that would

611
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: have been I don't know how you get out of

612
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: that one, dude. That was really nasty.

613
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 3: It's just the volume of fire, like when we got

614
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: when I got up that ridge line and we see

615
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: everything that's going on, and uh, it was unbelievable, you

616
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 3: know what I mean.

617
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: I mean just just.

618
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: Like everything's getting kicked up branches or you know, and

619
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: it's like it was coming from like every direction. So

620
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: I just remember that, like it it was coming from

621
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: every direction, you know, even like down the hill like

622
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: on this, you know, how you're on the ridge and

623
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: there's kind of went down here, like there's rounds coming

624
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: that way too, across down from my another position on

625
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 3: a hill like behind us. It was just everywhere. I mean,

626
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: they it was like a three hundred and sixty degree attack,

627
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: you know, for lack of a better.

628
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: Word, Yeah, it was. It was like nothing I had

629
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: ever experienced up until that point. I mean, I remember

630
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: thinking when I was out there on the radio, like

631
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: I was trying to take cover as best I could

632
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: and coordinate a quick reaction for us and call for fire.

633
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: I remember I was trying. I was, I was calling

634
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: for fire, danger close immediately, and I mean because they

635
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: were just on top of us, man and I. It

636
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: was just I remember thinking like, man, how are there's

637
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: no safe place to even take cover, you know, because

638
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the trees were just completely splintered. You know.

639
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: You know, every everybody that was on a gun was wounded.

640
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: You know, Emeric was.

641
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how you didn't get hit, Yeah, I

642
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: don't know.

643
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, but everybody that was on the gun got

644
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: shot in the head that day, like everybody. Yeah, you know.

645
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: I kept thinking like I'm gonna die, Like this is it,

646
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because I was just so exposed.

647
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: You're in the gun like that, and I just.

648
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: Was like yeahah, and this is this was back when

649
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: we had up armored trucks and like we didn't have

650
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: an armored cup a lot. You know, it was just

651
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: you had these like steel walls, but like they're a

652
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: name tape deaf laid, So you're exposed from here up,

653
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, and you're just up on.

654
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: The turret, like, yeah, yeah, you're exposed. I mean, if

655
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: you're gonna get on the gun, you have to expose

656
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: yourself somewhere. I mean, you're exposing your head, you know

657
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: what I mean. You can stay low, but you got

658
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: to be you got to be in a position where

659
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: you can at least see what you're firing at. So, yeah,

660
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: you have to make an exposure there when you're when

661
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: you're doing that.

662
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: So how did everybody else react when when we when

663
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: I called in troops in contact because I'm so interested

664
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: in that perspective because I wasn't there, and I was

665
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: just we were just completely overwhelmed. And I think you

666
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: guys got there, you had to have gotten there pretty quickly.

667
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: We I mean how we react is like everyone got

668
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: their ship and like we went like we were we

669
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: were wheels up within seconds. I mean it was like amazing,

670
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: guys are hanging out smoking a cigarette. Everyone's in the

671
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: trucks and we're just going you know what I mean.

672
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: It was it was just like that.

673
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: I mean, we we had to go immediately, you know,

674
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: we didn't have any time to waste. Just from the

675
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: sounds of it, it sounded like by the time we

676
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: got there, you're already gonna be overrun. And then I

677
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: heard you yell you're black on ammo before we got there.

678
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: So I was like, fuck, we're this is fucking bad.

679
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we were shooting, we were shooting. Our guns

680
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: were I mean, we had we didn't have time. You know,

681
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: you have a fifty caliber on a turret like your support.

682
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: You can't be firing those things on cyclic for an

683
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: extended period of time because it'll melt the barrel and

684
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: warp it and then make the weapon system inoperable. But

685
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: when you're getting overrun, you don't exactly have a lot

686
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: of time. You don't have an opportunity. Well, but yeah,

687
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: you can't be like switching out the barrel. And so

688
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, we you know, you carry your you know

689
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: what ub L or Universal Basic Load of ammunition, and man,

690
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean we we always brought more than we were

691
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: supposed to have, but we burned through it like within

692
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes. It was crazy. And then all

693
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, what the hell are we

694
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: going to do? We had Claymoors in placed around our position,

695
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: like Claymore minds that we were blown to try to

696
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: keep the enemy off of us, but we could see them,

697
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: like we could see them, you know, twenty feet away

698
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the hill shooting at us. You know,

699
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: like they were that close to us. And yeah, I mean,

700
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: thank thank God man for you and Captain Dye and

701
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 1: all those people like hauling ass up there, because we

702
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: definitely would not have made it. I remember, I remember

703
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: when Captain Dye got up on the hill, he linked

704
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: up with me in the middle of the perimeter, and

705
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: I remember his face. He was just like he was

706
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: just like holy shit. I mean, he handled himself like

707
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: a pro, but he was just a you tell, he

708
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: was like wow, oh my god, this is crazy, you know.

709
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is really bad. Yeah, it was. It

710
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 2: was nuts.

711
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: And you know, as a young leader, for me, it's

712
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: like in the first minute, every single key leader mich

713
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: Paeltoon was wounded, grease and wounded. Baldwin was wounded. Who

714
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: is a second squad leader? Now, you when you came

715
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: into the platoon, you took Baldwin's place when he got

716
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: wounded and took over his squad. But then also his

717
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: team leader, Garvin got wounded, and Emeric got shot, and

718
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: Kyle Lewis, who was out in his first patrol, he

719
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: got shot and was wounded. I mean everybody. Campbell, who

720
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: was a squad leader at the time, would jumped on

721
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: a turnt to give one of his guys a break

722
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: he got wounded. I mean it was just Saybo was

723
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: out there, a weapon squad leader, a senior squad leader

724
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: was out there. He gets blown up and gets wounded,

725
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: shrapp and all over his more. Everybody was hurt, everybody

726
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: was fighting wounded everybody. Today, I want to talk about

727
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: something that's been on the minds of the many Americans lately,

728
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: energy independence. With rising energy prices and geopolitical tensions, it's

729
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: more important than ever for our country to be self

730
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: sufficient when it comes to or energy needs. And that's

731
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: where Deep Well Services comes in. They're a company that's

732
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: not only dedicated to delivering top not services to the

733
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: oil and gas industry, but they're also committed to the

734
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: goal of American energy independence. With their cutting edge technology

735
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: an expert team of professionals, they're helping to unlock new

736
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: sources of domestic energy and reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

737
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: But that's not all. Deep Well Services is also a

738
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: great American company that's hiring like crazy right now, and

739
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: they're not just looking for anyone. They're seeking out talented

740
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: and hard working individuals who want to join their team

741
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: and make a difference. And with competitive salaries and benefits,

742
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: it's a great opportunity to not only work for a

743
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: patriotic company, but also build a rewarding career in the

744
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: energy sector. So if you're looking for a job with

745
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: purpose and meaning, or if you're simply passionate about American

746
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: energy independence, then you should definitely check out Deep Well Services.

747
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: Visit their website at Deepwell Services dot com to learn

748
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: more about their company and career opportunities. Oh and I

749
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: remember so one of the things. I'm just remembering this

750
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: as we talk, as I remember your truck pulling up

751
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: and Captain Dye getting out, which is what I just

752
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: talked about. But you up on the turret like shooting.

753
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I remember you up there shooting. What did you have

754
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: up there? Like a two forty? That's crazy.

755
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: I like that gun, great gun.

756
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: Why why I just like two forties?

757
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: I've always you know what I mean? They weren't. They're

758
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 2: not that.

759
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: Finicky, like you know what I mean, Like sometimes like

760
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: the Mark n eighteens can be finicky, and you know,

761
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: I just they're just a reliable gun.

762
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: And there it's a really good it's a really good

763
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: gun to have.

764
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we had we had three what you call

765
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: crew serve weapons that we would typically mount on trucks.

766
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: A fifty caliber machine gun that's been in use in

767
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: the army since like World War One, Like it's a

768
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: brand right browning at the caliber Mark nineteen, which is

769
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: basically an automatic forty milimeter grenade launcher. Just hold down

770
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: a butterfly trigger, it's just pumping grenades out. And then

771
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: two forty Bravo, which is just a crew serve seven

772
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: to sixty two machine gun, belt fed I think open

773
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: open bolt, right open bolt operating system, belt fed machine gun.

774
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that was a choice.

775
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: That was your choice.

776
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that guy. I mean, I mean, it

777
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: wasn't my choice, per say, but it was. I'm glad

778
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: that's what gun that I had on the commander's truck.

779
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 3: I just like I like the two forty. It's easy

780
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: to shoot, you know what I mean, It's just it's

781
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: a good gun.

782
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: So what were you thinking walked around there? What you

783
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: got up there and you see what what did it

784
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: look like when you got on top of the hill,

785
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: like our inside our pond.

786
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: It was just chaotic. It was just like there's just

787
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: so much going on. I didn't really know exactly where

788
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: to focus, you know what I mean. It was just

789
00:35:58,960 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: the volume of fire.

790
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: And then obviously seeing like literally just how many people

791
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 3: were attacking your position and we are position and even

792
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 3: breaking through the line, like you know, I I'm pretty

793
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: sure we were taking fire.

794
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: We just couldn't tell it was inside the perimeter. They

795
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: were inside, they were inside our perimeter.

796
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I remember, like I don't want to remember

797
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 3: this wrong because I don't want to do bald in

798
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: a disservice, but like his he was shot in the ankle.

799
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: And then wasn't that marine ett first sergeant trying to

800
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: get him out of there at some point.

801
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: We were all trying to evact him and so.

802
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: And then did he get shot on the back side

803
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 2: of that slope?

804
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: Yes, he was shots that happened.

805
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: I was above it, and I was like, holy shit,

806
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 2: we were all we were allward. Did that come from?

807
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we were yeah, so, oh my god, that's

808
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: actually that's so true. This was like a couple of

809
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: hours into the engagement. We finally get baldmen back to

810
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: our casualty collection point, which was on the backside of

811
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: the hill, which we thought was shielded from the area

812
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: that we were taking most of the fire from. And

813
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: everybody was just in the trenches shooting. And I say

814
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: in the trenches, I mean it like we had dug

815
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: hasty fighting positions. It was almost like like we were

816
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: hunkered down fighting back and fought them to a stalemate.

817
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: And and so it gave us some breathing room to

818
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: evacuate our casualties. And Baldwin, I remember like it was

819
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: it was like me Sabo, Doc Pantoha. And this is

820
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 1: after Doc Panto had been shot in the face already.

821
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: And then Dixon startant Dixon, who was one of the

822
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 1: prophets spooks that were with our profit, guys that would

823
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: like try to help us monitor enemy communications. And maybe

824
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: one other person that tried to tried to catch like

825
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what the hell you call it,

826
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: carry him like one arm, one leg, like to you know,

827
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: carry into the trucks. When the Marines got there, Now

828
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: the Marines were embedded with the Afghan National Army, So

829
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: the Afghan National Army actually reinforced our position a couple

830
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: of hours into the engagement with Marines, and we at

831
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: that point wanted to get our casualties into those marine

832
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: trucks so that they could ride away and evacum And

833
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: when to your point where you were saying, it's crazy

834
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: that you saw this, but we were carrying Baldwin and

835
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: we just took we took machine gun fire, autumn, it

836
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: was automatic machine gun fire. We dropped Phil and all

837
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: of us hit the deck. But I remember around going

838
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: through the back of Baldwin's body armor and embedding in

839
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: Sergeant Dixon's arm like it just like it. It was

840
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: like it hit his arm and he like looked up

841
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: at it and he had it wasn't arterial blood, but

842
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: he was bleeding pretty heavily, like looking at it, almost

843
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: going And he didn't go into shock. He didn't, but

844
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: he looked like he was going to go into shock,

845
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: white as a ghost and pantoha like with the entire

846
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: left side or I can't remember, the entire side of

847
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: his face completely wrecked, like puts a tourniquet Autumn wraps

848
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: it up and then Dixon runs over to the other

849
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: side of bald when it picks him up with his

850
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: good arm, and they we carried him the rest of

851
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: the way. But how does that happen if they're not

852
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: on the back side of the hill?

853
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: They were, I mean, that's the thing.

854
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 3: They were everywhere, man, And like you couldn't see all

855
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 3: their positions either, you know what I mean?

856
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, did you feel like that?

857
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: I I yes, you take fire and you didn't know

858
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: where it was, Like you don't know where it's coming from.

859
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: You know, maybe a general direction, but like you don't know,

860
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: like where the hell are they? You know what I mean?

861
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Chris, Like I didn't even realize that that that never

862
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: dawned on me until this moment that they were that

863
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: that fire could not have come from the east. I

864
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: mean it was it was way too close. It was

865
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: way too accurate. And and and what I didn't talk

866
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: about before was that even in that fire, we finally

867
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: got Baldwin into his car, the last thing that he

868
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: said to me before he was evacuated was that he

869
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: was shot in the back and couldn't feel his legs,

870
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: And that was the last we heard from him on

871
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: the evacuation. I think I talked to him like when

872
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: I because after this, after this mission was done, like

873
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: they took me up to battalion to debrief me. Do

874
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: you remember that when we talked to the Sergeant major

875
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: and Colonel Toner and Sergeant Major Vega. I was like, man,

876
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: or Sergeant Major Jensen, like we had two just to

877
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 1: we had we had just looking back, man, our unit

878
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: was fucking amazing, like yeah, you know Colonel Toner, Sar

879
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: Major Vega, Sar Major Jansen, and all of our even

880
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: the staff guys up there, like our S two and

881
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: Tristan to board, they were all just incredible. But we

882
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: get up there and Sergeant Major Vega was telling me

883
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: and he was actually showing me what the predator feed

884
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: looked like when we were under attack and you could

885
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: see through the infrared lenses of the predator. He's like,

886
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: look one, two, three, four, five, six, sent all the

887
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: way up to like two hundred plus people attacking us,

888
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: and they estimated that we killed they estimated, I'm sorry,

889
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: they estimated that we killed two hundred plus people that

890
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: day the enemies because there were just that many. There

891
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: were just that many and so is that.

892
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: I remember the jdamn and the cave too, remember that

893
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: the cave?

894
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what kicked this all off. That's what

895
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: kicked this all off. Like we called so wait that

896
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: we the end of the day, so like we went

897
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 1: back like.

898
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: We I think they some of them they squirt it

899
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: into that cave, didn't they.

900
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

901
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: Then yeah, so that's when we dropped it.

902
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: But before that, Chris, we we finally got air support

903
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: after being out there for hours. I think we had

904
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: three trucks that were destroyed. They had to be towed

905
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: off of the objective, and so we were up there

906
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: for hours trying to get them off the hill and

907
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: stuff like that, while taking pot shots and stuff from

908
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: the enemy. But we dropped I mean, we ended up

909
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: getting an a ten on station, dropped a couple of

910
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: jade ams, and then.

911
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 3: We had a we had a patches and that's when

912
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 3: everything really changed. That's when it was like it was

913
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 3: definitely over. Do you remember it.

914
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: Do you remember the reaction of the soldiers on the hill,

915
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: of our our guys on the hill when the Apache

916
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: showed up, It was like something My reaction to everyone

917
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: was like yeah, everyone was cheering. Do you remember that?

918
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: It felt pretty damn good.

919
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: It was crazy.

920
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: See what a couple of those things roll through when

921
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: you need them?

922
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do. They do what's called they do. It's

923
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: called bumping, like because like of what happened in Blackhawk

924
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: down where you know you have a helicopter there that

925
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: would look right and attack. When a helicopter loiters, it's

926
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: it's very vulnerable and they shoot a rocket prog and

927
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: ate up and take it out. But so that the

928
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: tactic that they use now, or the procedure that they

929
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: use now is like they bump. So what we what

930
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: we saw, Chris, You remember like they would they would

931
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: fly super high up into the sky and then and

932
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: then like peek out and then put their nose down

933
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: and just swoop into the ground at a million miles

934
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: an hour, firing those guns the whole time, and then

935
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: and then the next one would replace, and they just

936
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: rinse and repeat and all throughout the objective. It was crazy.

937
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: You remember us cheering.

938
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: They were amazing. We were altering at that point in time.

939
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy. It was crazy, and so well,

940
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: I think we after the apaches were there, there's an

941
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: A ten and then and then we got a b

942
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: one strategic answer that ended up dropping like eleven or

943
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: twelve jade ams on those on the in this ridge

944
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: line that we got attacked from. Now, that ridge line

945
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: was right on the pack of stand border. I mean

946
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: we were right there, and the cave site that you

947
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: were talking about was right on the border. I mean

948
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: like they were clearly they were coming in entering the

949
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: cave on the Pakistan side, coming out on the Afghan side.

950
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: But even after the engagement, do you remember, like we

951
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: went back to the base, everyone wounded like bandits, ourselves

952
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: up real quick and grabbed a new set of trucks

953
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: and went right back out after those assholes. We didn't

954
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: want to let any of them survive. We wanted to

955
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: chase something.

956
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, we went right back out because the next day

957
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: was my birthday.

958
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: June eleventh was my birthday.

959
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 3: And so we got back and we had like and

960
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: I had, you know, again, slept.

961
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: I think I did it.

962
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: I did like three or four sets of bench press

963
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 3: or something. I was just absolutely exhausted. I didn't have

964
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: enough energy to even work out. And then we just

965
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: got right back out and we went right back out.

966
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: I remember getting a remember getting into an argument with

967
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: Captain Dye. You know, I wanted the guys to be

968
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: able to rest, but again, looking back, he was absolutely right,

969
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: you got to keep the men on it. You can't

970
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: let them because something like that could something like that

971
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: could make people not want to ever leave the wire again.

972
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: And he was like, you got to get right back

973
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: after it. And that's when we went back out. You

974
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: remember we then we dropped all those jadeams on on

975
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: the cave. And I mean you remember you remember the

976
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: uh the A ten or predator video of that. You

977
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: remember what that looked like, how they draw it. And

978
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: first of all, like I remember watching this in the

979
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: Tactical Operation Center. It was a it was a woman,

980
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: a ten pilot who dropped the jadam, and I just thought, man,

981
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: that you know, life is not without a sense of irony.

982
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: That's amazing. The woman killing a bunch of Islamic terrorists

983
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 1: was a pretty awesome thing. But I remember they dropped

984
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: like four jadams on that cave site and completely collapsed.

985
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: Wasn't that nuts?

986
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, those things are unbelievable.

987
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: Can you believe that we lived through this? How the

988
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: hell did we live through this?

989
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: Don't know? Man, I actually don't have a good answer

990
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 2: for it.

991
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean.

992
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: Just wasn't our time, I guess, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,

993
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: it was crazy. Dude. That was the worst firefight that

994
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: I've ever been in. You know, yeah, there's not I mean,

995
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: there's nothing like that firefight. Dude. That was that was

996
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: a huge battle, and that was a battle, you know.

997
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was. It was I mean and

998
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 1: and like we experienced a lot of firefights over there,

999
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: and it just ground us down.

1000
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 2: I mean, we were supposed to be there for a year.

1001
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 3: Do you remember when you get ambushed by like they'd

1002
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: have like some stupid they'd have like six seven guys

1003
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: try to ambush you, and you're just like fuck you,

1004
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean, it's.

1005
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: Almost like affable, you know what I mean. I'm like

1006
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 2: and I'm like yelling at my gun, like fucking shoot him,

1007
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. He's like run it. You know.

1008
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: The guy's like trying to break contact. Like but yeah,

1009
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 3: it was just a different because it was so when

1010
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: you've been in a firefight with over two hundred people

1011
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: trying to kill you, Like when there's five guys taking

1012
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 3: pots like.

1013
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: They ambushed just all the time, like all the time,

1014
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: and it got to your right, it got to a

1015
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: point where it was just like it got to a

1016
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 1: point where we were so we we killed so many

1017
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: of them, We killed so many bad guys over there

1018
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: that they couldn't replace him fast enough and the replacements

1019
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: that were coming didn't know the terrain as well as us.

1020
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: So we were in this unique situation where we had

1021
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: more combat experience on the ground in eastern Afghanistan than

1022
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: many of the people that that that sharpened their teeth there.

1023
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, we killed, We knew our way around,

1024
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: we we knew you know, we were there for sixteen months.

1025
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: You know, we were in the same area of operation

1026
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: the entire time, So there's a lot of.

1027
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 3: Knowledge that you learned over the course of sixteen months

1028
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: of doing that every single day, you know, and you

1029
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 3: always maybe go on point every mission.

1030
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: So that on yeah, point means like you can never

1031
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,479
Speaker 1: relax on point. Yeah, I know that always made you mad,

1032
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: But you know, point your point person is like I mean,

1033
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: obviously they're the ones that are exposed to the most

1034
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: risk because they're the ones that often get shot at

1035
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: first because they're in the front. But you were always

1036
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: the guy that was on point, trying to find your

1037
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: way in a very difficult place where there's no roads,

1038
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: there's no electricity, there's no running water. Like a lot

1039
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: of the maps that we had were old Russian maps

1040
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 1: of the area, like there's there's no I mean, there's

1041
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: one paved road in Afghanistan and it was Highway one,

1042
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: but I'd never seen it, I never drove on it.

1043
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: Everything that was just it was just a dirt road.

1044
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: It's just like a dirt try.

1045
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 3: My first deployment, I was on that road that I

1046
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 3: think they called it the Ring road or whatever, but yeah,

1047
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: it was that we weren't there our second apployment, we

1048
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: weren't on.

1049
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: That road, you know.

1050
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we just off roaded. We offerroed it everywhere

1051
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: we went, and I mean literally like we were dead

1052
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: reckoning everywhere we went in Afghanistan with trucks. And we also,

1053
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, we got extended. So like just to give

1054
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: people some perspective, We're supposed to go home after twelve months,

1055
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: and I think, like where were you, like you were

1056
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: already were you home yet or were you in Bogram?

1057
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: Where were you when you found out?

1058
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So so just anybody who's read your book out

1059
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: lap patuone and any of that stuff. I came over

1060
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: to Afghanistan when you came over. I was part of

1061
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: the ADVON, the advanced party that came over. So I

1062
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: was there, like when those kids got blown up by

1063
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: the rockets outside the gate that day.

1064
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: It was like our first day of there.

1065
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: I think it was crazy.

1066
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: It's first morning.

1067
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 3: I think we were there that night and the next

1068
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 3: day that happened, I believe. But then coming back home,

1069
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 3: I was part of the advanced group coming back and

1070
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,479
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think. So I was with our guys,

1071
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 3: were with the guys, and I wasn't the advancer. It

1072
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 3: was just I was the regular group. You were staying

1073
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: back for right seat rides, for the leadership portion of it,

1074
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: and I was in.

1075
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: We were in Sharona Shrona.

1076
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: That was our brigade.

1077
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was our and so we literally we had

1078
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: signed over all the equipment and I'm like, you know,

1079
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 3: we're downloading the AMO and it's like, yeah, man, know,

1080
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 3: I'm smoking cigarettes and ripping red bulls or now I

1081
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 3: probably rip its because the army they got cheap on

1082
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 3: us and they they stopped giving us. Remember the RiPP its.

1083
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: Like we had red bulls for a few months and

1084
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 3: it's like nah, they.

1085
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: Would ship them in a connext and we grab all

1086
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: of them out of there and throw them in the

1087
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: back of our trucks.

1088
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: Always had RiPP its, And so we download all everything's downloaded,

1089
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh my god, we're finally coming home.

1090
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: Here we go and uh it's like one in the morning,

1091
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 3: and like one of my soldiers like, oh, they're like

1092
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: they woke us up for something like hey, you guys

1093
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: need to come down to like the chow hall tent

1094
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 3: or something, and uh.

1095
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,919
Speaker 1: Wait, what what were you thinking at that exact moment,

1096
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: because like it couldn't.

1097
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: Sleep, no, But I was trying to be positive because

1098
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 3: like my guys are like and I was like.

1099
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: That was your first week.

1100
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 2: I was like listen, listen.

1101
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 3: I was like, listen, Probably some fucking someone threw a

1102
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 3: fucking piece of trash somewhere and someone's got to fucking

1103
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 3: shove their nuts in our face because we're fucking You're

1104
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 3: not going to disrespect my you know what I mean.

1105
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 3: So I'm just thinking it's one of these I'm like,

1106
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 3: this is in bul don't work. And then we get

1107
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 3: there and the guys like, I think you guys need

1108
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: to have a seat for this. I'm like, fuck, what is.

1109
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: He going to say to us?

1110
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 3: And he was like, yeah, so we're extended one hundred

1111
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 3: and twenty days or until all mission complete, so we

1112
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 3: see your families.

1113
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: It's like, oh my god.

1114
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1115
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: So I was just like, oh shit, I'm dead. I'm

1116
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: not gonna make it.

1117
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: Listen, I need It's like people understand, need to understand this.

1118
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: Like when you're twelve months into a combat deployment and

1119
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: you are like this close to dying every day, it's like, okay,

1120
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: you're counting the days like you're in prison, like little

1121
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: tally marks on the wall. Some guys actually did that,

1122
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, fifty days in a wake up,

1123
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: forty nine days in a wake up, you know. And

1124
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: then like all of a sudden, like you finally make it,

1125
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: and you get you've turned in your armor piercing you know,

1126
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: sampy plates, you're turning in your live AMMO, and you're

1127
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: like all excited. You're like psychologically you're telling your well,

1128
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: I made it. I'm gonna see my family again, like.

1129
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: Ah, tounching years. You're starting to mentally prepare yourself to

1130
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: come home. It's like, Okay, this is over. And then

1131
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: that was a that was a killer.

1132
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: And the like you, the reason why is that like

1133
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: when you to survive what we went through. And I

1134
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: don't know if you feel this way, Chris, but I

1135
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 1: know that in order for me to lead effectively there,

1136
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: I had to tell myself that I was already dead.

1137
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: That it was just look, it's it's I'm dead already.

1138
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of when and how. And that

1139
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: was the only way I could just not be absolutely

1140
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: afraid every day, because if you're a you know, you

1141
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: don't want if you're afraid of death, then you're gonna

1142
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: hesitate in moments where people need you. And when you hesitate,

1143
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: other people die. So the only way that you you

1144
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: survive something like that is just flip a switch, say

1145
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm dead, I'm not even coming home. So when you

1146
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: get extended, right, you get and you've already psychologically, you know,

1147
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: and cautiously cautiously let your guard down, you know. Can

1148
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: you hear me, Chris, Yeah, I guess you cautiously let

1149
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: your guard down and say I made it right, I'm

1150
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: coming home. Oh my god. It's a sense of betrayal,

1151
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: and look like, looking back on it now, it's like, hey,

1152
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: some that shit happens sometimes, you know. But if that's

1153
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: how it felt in the moment, like oh my god,

1154
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: like we're not going to make it. We're not going

1155
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: to survive because being extended for one hundred and twenty days.

1156
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: We got extended in like February, so that meant that

1157
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: you had to go through another spring offensive. The first

1158
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: spring offensive we barely survived in the first place. And

1159
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: and and then all the barracks lawyers came out like,

1160
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: of which there were many. I was also one. I

1161
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: have to admit it sometimes where people focused on the

1162
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: part of the order that said until mission complete, and

1163
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 1: people were like, oh my god, like it's it says

1164
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty days, but we're gonna be here

1165
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 1: for another year. Do you remember that? Oh?

1166
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: Good? No. I honestly, I don't think I could let

1167
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 2: myself go there.

1168
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: I just had to. I had to hope and pray.

1169
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 3: It was one hundred and twenty days. I couldn't even

1170
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 3: I didn't have enough energy to try to think about

1171
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 3: a year.

1172
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

1173
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 3: I was like, because I when I so when we

1174
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: you know, we're in Sharona or whatever, and we immediately

1175
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 3: got to load all of our AMMO back up.

1176
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah that is that sucks, dude. It's like, oh cool,

1177
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: I just did all this shit. But here we go again,

1178
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

1179
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 3: So and come back to the fob. And you were

1180
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 3: waiting when we got back, you know, like we land

1181
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: like you come out to the airfield, you know what

1182
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: I mean? And uh, And I remember when I got

1183
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 3: the bird. I was like, I was like, are supplements?

1184
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 3: You get the supplements?

1185
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: Like I already ordered him. I was like, okay, thank god.

1186
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: You know why. We know why I did that. Like

1187
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,439
Speaker 1: so so Chris, you and I worked out all the time.

1188
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: We're like always on like yeah, we always went to

1189
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: DPS Nutrition and ordered like these ten pound bags of

1190
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: optimum weeight protein, and then we were doing like the

1191
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: no Explode thing too, which like now I look back

1192
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: on it, I'm like, how bad was that for us?

1193
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 2: Like probably no explode for like eight years? Yeah, I

1194
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 2: had to Like that stuff is so hard to get

1195
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: off of, Like it's so bad.

1196
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: But so like I knew, like as a leader, I

1197
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: knew the guys were gonna come back absolutely smoked and

1198
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: mentally exhausted and not want to leave, and so you

1199
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: have to like look for My thought was you have

1200
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: to look for creative ways to try to make things

1201
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: just a little bit better and show guys that you

1202
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: know that they're sucking and show them that like you're

1203
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: sucking too. That was the whole point behind that. You know,

1204
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: just didn't want you to. And I knew that the

1205
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: moment you walked your ass off that bird, you'd be like,

1206
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: we don't even have any goddamn supplements to work out,

1207
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: And I knew that was gonna be the first thing

1208
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: out of your mouth. So I'd like wanted to make.

1209
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we didn't have much, I mean, everything was

1210
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: I think the way it was was like, oh, we're

1211
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: kind of zing this out, you know what I.

1212
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 3: Mean, We're good to go or heading home. I didn't

1213
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 3: you know, I had just enough protein power whatever it was.

1214
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: And so you remember, so do you remember when the

1215
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: eighty sess so like the eighty second guys like who

1216
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: they so by the way, like that was horrible. Like

1217
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: when you do the right seat rides means like you know,

1218
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: new unit comes in and key leaders and I was

1219
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: one of the key leaders. Stay back behind to train them,

1220
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: go on patrol, show them key areas, introduce them the

1221
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: key leaders. I remember thinking I was never more scared

1222
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: in my entire life than in those last two weeks,

1223
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: because you know, like if I was going to get

1224
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: shot or killed, Like, hey, I'm dying around you guys. Fine,

1225
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, I honestly that that's how crazy combat is.

1226
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: That's how you think through this stuff. Hey, look, if

1227
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: I die, at least I'm with the people that I love.

1228
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: And then I don't know any of these dudes. Yeah,

1229
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: I don't know any of these dudes. And oh, by

1230
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: the way, they're totally green. They don't know anything like

1231
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: these guys. These guys are like bringing and look they're

1232
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: they're just don't know what they don't know. Like when

1233
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: you first get in country, like this isn't a knock

1234
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: on anybody, any unit, any anything like that. Like you

1235
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: just you're new. It just takes time.

1236
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: You're new to the area of the AOEs going on

1237
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: on the ground.

1238
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm thinking, oh my god, I'm gonna die

1239
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: with a bunch of people who don't give a shit

1240
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: about me, you know, And then we get extended and

1241
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: then all you guys come back. And then the eighty

1242
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: second guys, and again this isn't a knock on the

1243
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: eighty second. I've got lots of great friends and it

1244
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: came from the eighty second Airborne.

1245
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: But they were like, you got to talk about what

1246
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 2: I did? Remember that?

1247
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: Did you get you almost got in a fight or something?

1248
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: Is that what happened?

1249
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 3: Don't you remember when Rally came out, he was like

1250
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 3: starting counting like some guys like in my.

1251
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: Room and he won't leave.

1252
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: I do remember this, yeah, And.

1253
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what did you just say?

1254
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 1: And I was like to remember this. They just trust,

1255
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: They just trusted. So they were in our rooms right

1256
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: because they had taken over everything. They took over our

1257
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: rooms and stuff when we were staying intents and stuff

1258
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 1: getting ready to leave. And then but when they left

1259
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: because they got assigned to a different area. When we

1260
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: came back, we were taking over our area. And all

1261
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: this happened, by the way, because of the Iraq surge,

1262
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: like you remember, like the Iraq surge happened, and like

1263
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: all available troops in the Army went to Iraq and

1264
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: supported that and then we were just like totally left.

1265
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: We were That was what happened, literally totally left in

1266
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: Afghanistan defend for ourselves. I mean, that isn't that crazy?

1267
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: But let me talk about pisspoor planning, Like Jesus, like

1268
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: you're you're a general, like Secretary of Defense, commander of

1269
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: the Joint chiefs, like like maybe plan a little bit better?

1270
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah shit, you know, I mean, like what the hell

1271
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: you get? Why why are you making so much money?

1272
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: You know?

1273
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: And then well, and then and then these guys destroyed

1274
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: the they destroyed the barracks. Remember they like they knocked

1275
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: down the plywood walls, they vandalized stuff, and then you

1276
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: guys had to go back into the barracks when they

1277
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: were completely destroyed. Like why why? Why do that?

1278
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 2: I don't know they're but I do know. This is

1279
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 2: when when Rally came to me saying that I was pissed.

1280
00:57:58,360 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: I was hot, I know. I mean I think I

1281
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: was right next to you with you were like.

1282
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: No, you yelled at me.

1283
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 3: You were like started counting, and I'm like, no, I

1284
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 3: got this, and like you followed me because you knew it.

1285
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: Was like wait, what did I say slowed that?

1286
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: What happened?

1287
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: Cause I remember he started counting, wait, and I was like, no,

1288
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 3: I got this. This is n CEO business. And like

1289
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: you're like, and so I go.

1290
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: To this guy.

1291
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: You could just see by the way rally. I love

1292
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: that kid, but you just see he no, he knew

1293
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: that the moment that he came to you, that was

1294
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: the reaction that he was going to get. In the moment,

1295
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: you just see this little smirk on his face and

1296
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: you storming down to the barracks and I'm like, son

1297
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:31,919
Speaker 1: of a bitch.

1298
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 2: So this guy's in there, and they were supposed to

1299
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 2: be out, they were supposed.

1300
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 3: To be moving out, and I was like, what part

1301
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: of Like this is his room, don't you fucking understand?

1302
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 2: And the guy's like wow, they told us. I'm like,

1303
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: get your ship and get the fuck out now. And

1304
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 2: I just.

1305
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: Started grabbing his ship and throwing it into the hallway

1306
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 3: and like that's how we That's how we handled it,

1307
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

1308
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 2: I mean it may be kind of mean, but like

1309
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 2: we've been there a year and just got our asses kicked,

1310
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not letting that happen, Like one

1311
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 2: of our one of our guys.

1312
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 3: It needs to get back in this freaking room, you

1313
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 3: know what I mean. So yeah, I just yeah, I

1314
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 3: saw I lost a little bit.

1315
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: But you know, well, look it's the little things that

1316
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: that that men cling to in combat. And I say

1317
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: men because at the time there were no women in

1318
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: the infantry. Okay, but there and that's how we spoke,

1319
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: right when I say, like, is there like these idiots

1320
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: on social media? W I'm like, oh, my men were amazing.

1321
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: How dare you say men? Or I'm like, Jesus Christ,

1322
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 1: it's all guys, And that's what you said, like men,

1323
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: this is what we're gonna do today. Yeah, but like

1324
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: you cling to those little things in combat when life

1325
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,919
Speaker 1: and death is on the line and the only thing

1326
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: you think about after a year and a half of

1327
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: absolute hell, is am I going to live or die today?

1328
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: Like you kind of want to be in your own

1329
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: safe space, not to use that that cliche term now,

1330
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: but you kind of want to have your own bed,

1331
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: your own space that was yours for a year. You know,

1332
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: you don't want to have to sleep you're going out

1333
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: on combat patrols. You don't have to sleep in some

1334
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: damn caught in a tent with no coup, you know.

1335
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: So to your point, you remember my room? Do you

1336
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: remember my room.

1337
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember your Yes, your room was. It was

1338
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: like walking into a goddamn monastery. Like everybody had these

1339
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: like everybody had like these posters and like made their

1340
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: rooms like super personal. You go into some Sabaki's room.

1341
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: He had this big poker table and see's in there.

1342
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1343
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you walk into your room. It was like you

1344
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: were living you know, some like Plateau just south of

1345
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: Everest or something by yourself with like lukewarm water bottles everywhere.

1346
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: And I walk in one day and you're just watching

1347
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: some Duran Duran video hungry like the Wolf or Mother.

1348
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: No it was no, it was Mother by Yourself And

1349
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: this dude's just dancing around without a shirt on. I'm like,

1350
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: it's a good song. Who lives like this?

1351
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 2: Good song?

1352
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: Who lives like this?

1353
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: I remember reading a ton of books over there.

1354
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: We did read a ton of in You and by

1355
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: the way, by You, along with all the other n

1356
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: c o's in Patuone talked a lot of shit on

1357
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: me for reading Harry Potter, one of the best stories

1358
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: ever written, and then all of a sudden, you guys

1359
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: started reading it. And oh, the big question in the

1360
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: platoon was whether or not Snape was a good guy

1361
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: or bad guy you liked, Remember you liked the books.

1362
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: I was right, read all of them.

1363
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the seventh one came out after we got back.

1364
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 3: I read the first six over there.

1365
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1366
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: We we had many a conversation on outposts and observation

1367
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: posts in eastern Afghanistan, in depth conversations about Harry Potter. Yes,

1368
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 1: the philosophical underpinnings of Harry's It's in our platoon video.

1369
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: It's the platoon video.

1370
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: We didn't know they were recording us. Remember, I think

1371
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 3: it was probably like it must have been rally or something.

1372
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember.

1373
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 2: So, Okay, so they got snap did pretty good whatever.

1374
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: I really wish Dumbledore was my teacher. Yeah. Yeah, me too.

1375
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to be there. It's such a magical world,

1376
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

1377
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: You wanted to be at Hogwarts. Yeah, it's cool. I mean,

1378
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: who doesn't want to be at Hogwarts with each other?

1379
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah? Yeah?

1380
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: What was the deal that you know? That place we

1381
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: call the op bait by Marga.

1382
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: Oh yes, speaking of Margot, we got to talk about that.

1383
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: We built. We built the first combat outpost in Afghanistan,

1384
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: like the first like legitimate what they call cops and yeah, yeah,

1385
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about that a little bit. Like we we

1386
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: got tasked after we got extended to build this outpost

1387
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: up at Margat and Marga was north of our base

1388
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: about forty five minutes by far, one of the most

1389
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: dangerous places in all of Afghanistan, and they put us,

1390
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: they put us in, from a tactical standpoint, one of

1391
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: the worst spots ever. And they tasked these combat engine

1392
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: combat engineers to come out and build the base, and like,

1393
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: of course, we get tasked with going up and securing them.

1394
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: They build, they started lining up these hescoes which are

1395
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: like these these like hescos are basically like they're like

1396
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: hugely big sand bag, yeah, like huge, and they're filling

1397
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: them off with these front end loaders and stuff like that,

1398
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: and those are the walls and they stack them too high,

1399
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: and and I remember like we're up there with like

1400
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: a couple of gun trucks and skeleton crew securing these people,

1401
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: like wondering why we're in the worst tactical location ever,

1402
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: especially when there's a massive hill we could have put

1403
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: the base on like right there, and no, but no,

1404
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: we're in the low ground like where two Waddy systems

1405
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: can basically walk right up on the base without being seen.

1406
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: And so the engineers get there, and you know, the

1407
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: base gets hit by a suicide bomber. And I remember

1408
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: right from second Platoon that that guy's a freaking hero

1409
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: with Lieutenant Carnegie up there, those guys like they were

1410
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: just they were just fucking pros man, dude, and got

1411
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: hit with.

1412
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 2: That Susie hit man.

1413
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: You got hit with those suicide bombers. And and we

1414
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: we like really them in place. And then the engineers

1415
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: left in the middle of the night and didn't even

1416
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: bother to finish the base. It was just too dangerous.

1417
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm like dangerous, Like we're the ones up here with

1418
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: our asses not left flapping in the wind, and the

1419
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: engineers just left because it's too dangerous. Yeah. Well, and

1420
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: and by the way, no one ever got in trouble

1421
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: with that, Like what happened with those guys, say, like,

1422
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: can you like, can you imagine they just abandoned their

1423
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: posts and left us in They left us there with

1424
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: half filled Hesco barriers. The base wasn't even done. We

1425
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: had no gates, like like it was like a piece

1426
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: of cloth as thick as this T shirt, Like there

1427
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: was nothing feeling bad, Like I could throw a lock

1428
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: and it could go through that.

1429
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 2: We didn't have towers nothing. I mean, we didn't have

1430
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: like anything.

1431
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 3: We just drove the trucks up onto their ramp and

1432
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 3: you're just up on this wall. It's not even that

1433
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 3: high up, like it's a pretty scalable wall, and like

1434
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 3: that's our little compound that we were in, and obviously

1435
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 3: there's high ground all around you. There's a village in

1436
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: front of you, systems like a thousand ways to get,

1437
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: you know.

1438
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 2: To Yeah, it was just a bad spot.

1439
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, you know what happens that night?

1440
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: Do you know what happened that night? When we're up

1441
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: there secure in a half field HESCO base at three

1442
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, Like I'm sitting there like monitoring

1443
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: the radio, like we're at like thirty percent security. Like

1444
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: guys are sleeping, like we had just been extended. Everyone

1445
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: hates their life, is convinced they're gonna die, and like,

1446
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's freezing cold because it's in like February January,

1447
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: all freezing or asses off. And by the way, there's

1448
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 1: like one little pot billied stove and it's in a

1449
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: tenth and like you know, it's everyone's freezing and everyone's

1450
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: just miserable. When I get this call on the battalion

1451
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: radio on the battalion SAT like the tactical satellite radio,

1452
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: and I'm like thinking, like son of a bitch, Like

1453
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: why is the S two calling me in my truck?

1454
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: You know, that just doesn't happen because typically you're hearing

1455
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: from your company commander and he's like he's like black

1456
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: Hawk three six, like they're approximately two hundred and fifty

1457
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: men moving to attack your position as we speak, probably

1458
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: fifty men from the north fifty man fifty men from

1459
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: the northwest, and another two hundred moving in from Pakistan.

1460
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: And they put them on the FBCB two like this

1461
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: little television set that you have in your trucks to

1462
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: like see and I just like remember thinking, like after

1463
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: I got that call, all I said was like okay, Roger,

1464
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: like that's it. And then and then I looked at

1465
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: the other radio that I had to tell all of

1466
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: you guys, and I tried to wrap my head. I

1467
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: remember walking over to like Greece and and I told

1468
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: because I didn't have the heart to like get on

1469
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: the radio and tell like what we had, like twenty

1470
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: guys on the ground, like twenty like me, nobody, nobody.

1471
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: And I go over to Greece and I said, so

1472
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: did you hear that on the tax set? And he's

1473
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,919
Speaker 1: like mmmmm. I'm like, so what what do we do?

1474
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: Like how do we tell the guys? And I remember

1475
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: he brought all the squad leaders in and we told you,

1476
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: like in person and not over the radio. Yeah, do

1477
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: you remember how you reacted?

1478
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 2: I don't remember what I said, to be honest, you

1479
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: were like you were.

1480
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: Just like you were just like son of a bitch,

1481
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: like this is like this is bulls Was this ever

1482
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: gonna stop? Like you know, like and and I think

1483
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember. I think Sabo was there too,

1484
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: and Saba was like you know, Sabo was being Sabo

1485
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: was just mad and like god damn everyone, it was

1486
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: so mad. Everyone was so mad. But honestly, like more

1487
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: than that, like I was absolutely petrified because there was

1488
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: no way we were going to win the fight. There's

1489
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: no way. We didn't have enough ammo. We had no

1490
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: cover and concealment. We had a hot like a village

1491
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: that was like Afghanistan friendly, which meant not really friendly

1492
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: to us. At all high ground that was unoccupied, didn't

1493
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: have the manpower to occupy the high ground, didn't have

1494
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: the man power to secure the two woddy systems that

1495
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: led right up to the base. We were screwed. We

1496
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: were dead to rights right there. And then Colonel Toner

1497
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: came through in the clutch. By the way, Well, the

1498
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: air is black, Yeah, like there was there was no

1499
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: there was no air because the way. Yeah. So that's

1500
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: another that's another point, like when you do combat patrols

1501
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, it's not like it. It's not like in Iraq,

1502
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 1: where there's a developed country and there are evac routes

1503
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: for birds to fly, or a worst case scenario, you

1504
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 1: can throw a guy in a truck and drive on

1505
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: a paved road. No, like, we were on an outlying

1506
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: ford operating base a couple kilometers from the Pakistan border.

1507
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: The only way that you could get people out who

1508
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: had been shot or wounded, the only way is with

1509
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: a helicopter. And that's only if. That's only if the

1510
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,799
Speaker 1: air was like green, in other words, like the ceiling

1511
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 1: was high enough that birds could fly. We were out there,

1512
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: it was black. No metavac birds were coming for us

1513
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: that day. And so we knew that if we got shot,

1514
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: we were dying out there literally, like what a couple

1515
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: of days. I don't was this before or after we

1516
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 1: got This was after we got extended.

1517
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 3: Right after we that was after we got extended, Yeah,

1518
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 3: because that's when they didn't that thing kind of come

1519
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 3: up after we got extended, Like that's kind of we started.

1520
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: No, no, this happened.

1521
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 3: This happened before it did it happen before? You're right,

1522
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 3: just a couple of days December January?

1523
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this was this was in late January. This

1524
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 1: happened just before we got extended. But either way, we

1525
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: were like either way, we were miserable. We were thinking like, Okay,

1526
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna be going home in a couple of days,

1527
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, and no one wants.

1528
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 2: To We thought we were almost home.

1529
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: No one, No one wants to get whacked on the

1530
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: last two days in country and so so like even

1531
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: though the air was black, like Colonel Toner and and

1532
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: the be tind staff and by the way, the S

1533
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 1: two Tristan to board somehow had some sort of shadow

1534
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: drone in the area. Because he was getting like the

1535
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: bigger picture of all this, and I ended up finding

1536
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 1: this out later. He was monitoring a lot of the

1537
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: communications in that area. Knew that an attack was coming,

1538
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 1: but didn't know when. And because of that, because of

1539
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: the box, the coms box that he had around our

1540
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: base in Marga and Burmel, he was able to have

1541
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 1: a like a shadow drone in that reconnaissance drone in

1542
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: that area that just caught them like that just happened

1543
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: to be in the area at the right time.

1544
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 2: Direct.

1545
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Now, like like just think about people that

1546
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: are listening or watching this, Like that is what right

1547
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: looks like from the top at a battalion to staff

1548
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: all the way down to ground level troops. Like the

1549
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 1: staff in a battalion. Battalion Commander Colonel Turner always used

1550
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: to say, the staff exists solely to support the people

1551
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: on the ground, and everybody on that staff that was

1552
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: in a key leadership position in our unit was completely

1553
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: and wholly dedicated to that. Like why was Tristan to

1554
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,759
Speaker 1: board He was he was up. I mean he caught

1555
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 1: them at two three in the morning. He was there.

1556
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: Somebody saw them and they were able to pass that

1557
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: intel down to us and monitored them as they moved.

1558
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: And I know this because I've seen the drone footage

1559
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: after the fact. It's crazy. You can go one, two, three,

1560
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: like two hundred people like walking in a tactical column

1561
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: all the way back to Pakistan that they were monding.

1562
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean they did what's called they stacked air. I

1563
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: mean they brought in they had a Predator drone on station.

1564
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:08,839
Speaker 1: Then they they knew that they were going to attack

1565
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: with the apaches, and then they were going to pull

1566
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 1: off a patches and then bring in an A ten,

1567
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: and then after that they were going to bring in

1568
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: a strategic lancer. But they had like but not before

1569
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: we fired like one hundred and fifty one oh five

1570
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 1: rounds on target, like it was nuts. And they brought

1571
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: in this this unbelievable level of fire, the likes of

1572
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: which that I had never seen. And we went from

1573
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: thinking like, Okay, we're dead, there's no way we're going

1574
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: to make it to thinking like yeah, holy cow, like

1575
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:46,799
Speaker 1: we just won an unbelievably decisive victory, like crazy, yeah.

1576
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 3: And we did not, we didn't have to do anything.

1577
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 3: We're just sitting back listening to the fireworks.

1578
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:50,720
Speaker 2: The whole night.

1579
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: Insane.

1580
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 2: Cool.

1581
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

1582
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 2: It was such a crazy turn because I was literally

1583
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: like saying goodbye to each other like I remember me

1584
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 2: and Jeff like love you man, Like this is probably it,

1585
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because that's what we didn't

1586
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 2: know what was going to happen.

1587
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 3: So we're kind of preparing ourselves like this is you know,

1588
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 3: we're not No one's getting taken alive.

1589
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1590
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's right.

1591
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: I didn't think we're not doing that because the whole

1592
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 2: remember the we.

1593
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: Made sure we all had nine mills in our trucks

1594
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: and stuff.

1595
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, remember the it's all about you know, wasn't that

1596
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 3: One of the major things they wanted to do is to.

1597
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 1: Capture us and cut our heads off.

1598
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 2: Capture a platoon US infantry platoon or whatever, and then

1599
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: obviously then they can do whatever they want with it,

1600
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 2: if they're gonna do videos of us while they cut

1601
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: our heads off or whatever.

1602
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: Do you remember we knew that because when we were

1603
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,799
Speaker 1: we trained the Border police down and down in Gamal,

1604
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: or very very early on in the deployment, we trained

1605
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: this group of border patrol men down in Gamal district

1606
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: is what they call the band our checkpoint in Gamal.

1607
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that. That's where they all they all

1608
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 2: like took dumps outside everywhere.

1609
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: Remember, yes, yes, I remember.

1610
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 2: You joke around like need a little more fecal.

1611
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: Matter or yeah.

1612
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 2: It was just like everywhere, like like.

1613
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: They couldn't even figure out that they all needed to

1614
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom in the same area. But like, yeah,

1615
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: but either way, Like there was a video, there was

1616
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 1: a video of them that got overrun and like the

1617
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 1: video of them, like but the same people that wanted

1618
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 1: to take us out cutting those those policemen's heads off.

1619
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 1: I watched it in the talk. It was one of

1620
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 1: the most horrific things that I've ever seen. I've ever seen,

1621
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 1: and that's what they really need to Yeah, it's absolutely terrible,

1622
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: and that's why. Yeah, you're right, man, I forgot about that.

1623
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: We're just all saying our goodbyes to each other thinking

1624
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: that was going to be it to go into like

1625
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: utter jubilation that oh yeah, we were just wiping those

1626
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: guys out, you know.

1627
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we didn't know then then they were

1628
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 2: able to get air on station because we weren't thinking

1629
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: we're having we were going to get air support, you know,

1630
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 2: m because they ended up.

1631
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 3: Getting a patches eventually too. Because that the apaches cleaned

1632
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 3: up a lot of what like I know, they dropped.

1633
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 3: I mean you remember like they dropped. I mean I

1634
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 3: remember when we did the battle damage assessment. I would

1635
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 3: see a hat like one hundred feet in the air

1636
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 3: in a tree. It was just like holy shit.

1637
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean there'd be like that's power people's legs and

1638
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: appendages like hanging in the bodies like all over the place.

1639
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: Like when we got to the objective the next day

1640
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: to do the sensitive site like the s S is

1641
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: Sensitive Sight exploitation or something like that. Like I call

1642
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: all these acronyms like hard to remember some of them now, but.

1643
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did a tree fall in my head.

1644
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like after all that you've been through, like a

1645
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 1: tree falls on your head and almost kills you because

1646
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: like every tree was like so brittle. We had bombed

1647
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: the shit out of the area, and like yeah, that's

1648
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 1: like yeah, I remember like out of the corner of

1649
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 1: my eye, this tree falling down just hitting you right

1650
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: on the top of the head and it looked like

1651
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: it like a hammer to a nail, like drove you.

1652
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 1: Thank God, like there was a waddy system beneath you

1653
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: because it like you like fell right and this like trenched,

1654
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: and I remember pulling you out and you just had

1655
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: sap and needles all stuck to your face. You're like,

1656
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: where am I? Like you forgot your name for a second.

1657
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: You had just like you had this grass stain on

1658
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: your helmet like and I'm like, it's like, so it's

1659
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: like of all the ways to die in combat, Like.

1660
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 2: How did Chris die? A tree fall on his head?

1661
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: You know, isn't that crazy? Yeah?

1662
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 2: Man? It was nuts. How crazy was that I slipped

1663
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 2: down into that? I know?

1664
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,879
Speaker 1: But how crazy was it rolling up on that objective

1665
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: and seeing the trees the way that they were and

1666
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 1: all of like the dead bodies just pieces of people everywhere,

1667
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: like everywhere.

1668
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,759
Speaker 2: Once I finally got us there, because remember I went out.

1669
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris, I'm like like like that morning, I'm like

1670
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 1: all right, God, all right, man, like let's load up.

1671
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: We got to get there. If we got to get there,

1672
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: go go go, go go go, like real moving with

1673
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: like a sense of urgency. We got to get there

1674
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: quick because and the reason for that is is that

1675
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, when you get there, you don't want yeah,

1676
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: you want to catch people. And so like the sun

1677
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 1: crests over the hills, and we're like go go, go go,

1678
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 1: and Chris is on point again. He's like taking us

1679
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 1: in this woddy system that's just like we're going like

1680
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: a half a mile an hour, like going slow over

1681
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: and I'm like on the on the horn with him, saying, dude,

1682
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: like what are you doing, Like you gotta pick up

1683
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: the base, get us to a road. I don't care

1684
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: what you have to He's like it's hard to do,

1685
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: Like I can't. This is the best road. And I'm like,

1686
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,679
Speaker 1: look out your right window. Like there were jingle trucks.

1687
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 1: These massive trucks too, are just like one hundred yards

1688
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: from us. That stack would a mile high on the

1689
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: back and they're like passive byas at one hundred miles

1690
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: an hour. I'm like, get on that road and get

1691
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 1: us there. And we finally get there. Yeah, we finally

1692
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: get there. And it ended up being a mood point anyway,

1693
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: because like all those two hundred plus dudes were just

1694
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: completely there's I think there was one survivor when we

1695
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 1: got there, and.

1696
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 2: No there was bodies.

1697
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 3: There was there was Remember the first I came upon

1698
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 3: the first body right in the water system and his

1699
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 3: head was split.

1700
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 1: He was dead, and yeah, he was dead.

1701
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's no survivors, but there was one survivor's head.

1702
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, his head was just like oh yeah, his head

1703
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: was just like.

1704
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this looks fake. It looks like fake, dude,

1705
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 3: you know what's crazy? Like looking at his brain.

1706
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 1: You know, you're looking at their eyes too, and like

1707
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: you like you see how their eyes are completely clouded.

1708
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: You know.

1709
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just weird.

1710
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 1: It is weird. And like do you remember you remember

1711
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 1: like when we pushed back there and there's one guy

1712
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 1: that ended up survived, but the ANA had him and

1713
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: they were just like butt stroking him and yeah, I'm like,

1714
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: all right, he stopped this, like this is the only

1715
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: survivor here. And we ended up like and again, like

1716
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: you'd think that this would have been all over the news,

1717
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 1: but like we ended up finding these like pack mill

1718
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: i D cards like they were they weren't regular Pakistani military.

1719
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: They were like the frontier core, like they're militia. And

1720
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: these guys had body armor, they had helmets, they had

1721
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: Merril combat boots that were nicer than ours. They had

1722
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 1: Iranian serial numbers on their cruiser of weapons. Do you

1723
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: remember the p kams that they had, like they were

1724
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 1: nicer than our two forty bravos with like the pack

1725
01:17:57,920 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 1: and grease still on them, you know.

1726
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I remember that.

1727
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:07,759
Speaker 1: What the hell? So clearly these were they had gotten

1728
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: their weapons and their equipment from Iran, funded by Iran,

1729
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: with the back mill ID cards coming to attack and

1730
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 1: overrun an American platoon, and crazy never made the light

1731
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: of that. No one ever talked to.

1732
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 2: Nobody knows about that stuff.

1733
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: Nobody knows.

1734
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 2: Nobody knows about that. We give them money every year, Yeah, Ikistan,

1735
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

1736
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and like I'm not I'm.

1737
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 3: Not here to talk about the politics, but you know,

1738
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 3: obviously there's something going on.

1739
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: There's something going wrong when when you have that happening,

1740
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,799
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, I think basically crazy.

1741
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: I think basically the reason why we give Pakistan as

1742
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: much money as we do is so that they can

1743
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 1: secure the nuclear weapons that they have there, to prevent

1744
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon from falling into the wrong hands. I

1745
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:53,679
Speaker 1: really think that that's scary.

1746
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 2: It's scary. People should be terrified. They know how there's

1747
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 2: not like the order in some of these countries like

1748
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: there is in America. People have no idea what it's

1749
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 2: like it's like the wild Wild West. It is like Afghanistan.

1750
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like they don't even most of the people

1751
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 3: Aghanstan don't even they're all tribal, they don't they don't

1752
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 3: buy into a country model like they're you know what

1753
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 3: I mean, it's all they have their own factions and

1754
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 3: you know, it's a whole different world.

1755
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you go back to a time where Jesus

1756
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 1: Christ walk the earth and add the AK forty seven,

1757
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 1: the pickup truck and the Icon radio and that's it.

1758
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: That's Bai Afghanistan. Actually, Rome was more advanced than all

1759
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: of Afghanistan is today, like the in the areas that

1760
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: we were, you know, seriously, ancient Rome was more more

1761
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: advanced than them. And I mean like remember that scene

1762
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 1: from Indiana Jones. You ever see Indiana Jones where like

1763
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,640
Speaker 1: he's got the guy with the store flipping around and

1764
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: he like shoots him, but it's still like in that

1765
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: bizarre that's like Afghanistan. Like that's like monkeys, Like remember

1766
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,639
Speaker 1: like he's like monkeys on little like twine leashes running around.

1767
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 1: It's like insane, it's insane.

1768
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 3: My first deployment of monkey attacked me. A monkey came

1769
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 3: at me. I had it on a leash, yeah, and

1770
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 3: I was like leaning up against these like bricks and stuff,

1771
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 3: and the monkey was over here like kind of and

1772
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 3: it just like lunged at me like almost swipe me

1773
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 3: in the face. Man, like one of these little monkeys.

1774
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell, dude, I didn't do

1775
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,560
Speaker 3: anything of that monkey. It was just like it's like

1776
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 3: I've never liked monkeys since then, how do we trust them?

1777
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 2: I don't trust.

1778
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: You're like justify like like still trying to wrap your

1779
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: mind around like I didn't do anything to that monkey,

1780
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 1: Like what did I do? What did I do? What

1781
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 1: did I do to provoke that that monkey?

1782
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1783
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we get we do the Sensitive Site exploitation

1784
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: or the s S and yeah, find out it's pack Mill.

1785
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 1: Their weapons are are incredible. What like what the hell?

1786
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,559
Speaker 1: Like what next? You know, we end up finally making

1787
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 1: it home and and what man Like everyone goes their

1788
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 1: separate ways. Had lots of people like really struggle. I

1789
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 1: mean everyone struggled. I struggled. Yeah, I think you know

1790
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 1: speak for you, but you struggled a little bit, sure,

1791
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: And now yeah, you know, all these years later, it's

1792
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 1: it feels like more guys have died at home than

1793
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 1: than died in multiple combat deployments, you know.

1794
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

1795
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1796
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 3: I mean when we look at our deployment, you know,

1797
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 3: we lost Cole, but everybody else lived. I mean, now,

1798
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 3: you know, but since we've been back, we've had two

1799
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 3: of our two of our own that were in our

1800
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 3: opportunity to kill themselves take their lives.

1801
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 2: Might right, Like we had AARs just for for our deployment.

1802
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:47,720
Speaker 2: We had AARs and we had stalter who unfortunately took

1803
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 2: their lives. And then we've got another situation where you know,

1804
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 2: Kielan's in that situation where he's facing all these charges

1805
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 2: for Keenan suicide by cop.

1806
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the best, He's a.

1807
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 2: Good guy man. I just think he was in the crisis,

1808
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I don't. I don't want

1809
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 2: to comment on what the police.

1810
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 3: I just feel like I think if Keeenland wanted to

1811
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 3: shoot somebody, he could have shot somebody. I know, like

1812
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:11,679
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like he so, I I don't.

1813
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 3: I think he was a desperation, he needed help. I

1814
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 3: hope it works out that way.

1815
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 1: Hope. Look, you're a police officer now, But you know,

1816
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: you see a lot of these cops. I don't know, man,

1817
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: it just feels like and I understand, like these district

1818
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: attorneys that are looking at their filing these charges should understand,

1819
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: so try to understand what a guy like Kinlan has

1820
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 1: been through before leveling all these crazy charges, you know.

1821
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: I mean. But on the other hand, I like, if

1822
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: you're a strict da're like, hey, look he like yeah, look,

1823
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: there's no excuse for what he did, Like he could

1824
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: have killed a cop. Like you know, I don't know

1825
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: where you come down on all that stuff, but it

1826
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 1: seems like I just wish Kinlan could get a better,

1827
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 1: a better, a fair shake here. You know me too,

1828
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:07,919
Speaker 1: because me too. Guy's amazing, he's high functioning, he's super smart,

1829
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 1: like educated, like you know, and I don't know. I

1830
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: mean a lot of these days, like I don't know

1831
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 1: the DA that's that pressing charges against Keenlan.

1832
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:18,720
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1833
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: But like they don't know, they don't know what it's

1834
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: like going to war and coming back, going through what.

1835
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 2: We've been through.

1836
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 1: It's not that that's not that that can ever be

1837
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 1: an excuse, but it's it's a reason.

1838
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 2: And it should be should be It should be, should be,

1839
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 2: something should be taken. Yeah, I agree, I totally agree. Man.

1840
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:41,599
Speaker 3: It's just that's it's been a tough road, I think

1841
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 3: for all of us in our own ways, you know

1842
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:48,320
Speaker 3: what I mean, you know, just for me, like leaving

1843
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 3: the army, you know, and you know, I go, right,

1844
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 3: I'm not even out.

1845
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 2: Of the army.

1846
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 3: I'm already in a police academy putting myself through, you

1847
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And then I got hired by

1848
01:23:58,080 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 3: my agency I work at. I work in a like

1849
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 3: a metropolitan medium sized police department. Got hired by them,

1850
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 3: go right into there. So I did a year of academy,

1851
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,679
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and then right into it.

1852
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,720
Speaker 3: I never had any time to like download anything that

1853
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 3: happened in Afghanistan. It would just go, go, go, go

1854
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 3: to the next thing, you know, And that's you know,

1855
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 3: looking back, it's like it's a tough career to choose,

1856
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 3: especially after doing what we did in Afghanistan, you know

1857
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 3: what I mean. And then obviously I've had several challenges

1858
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 3: since then.

1859
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: But you know, Chris, hang on a second, how do

1860
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 1: you go give me? Tell me the mindset that you're in.

1861
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:39,440
Speaker 1: You go from two combat deployments, difficult combat deployments to Afghanistan,

1862
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,639
Speaker 1: and you transition right to continue to serve the country.

1863
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 1: You know, you're a soldier, you're carrying a sword, you're

1864
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 1: in the tip of the spear, and then now you're

1865
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:51,639
Speaker 1: the shield. You're a police officer in a tough town.

1866
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: It's not easy. I mean, being a cop is not

1867
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 1: easy in general, but oh my god, like being a

1868
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 1: city cop and some of these cities is really tough,

1869
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: really really tough. Yeah, And how what tell me what

1870
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 1: it takes to process keep continue to serve?

1871
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 2: You know?

1872
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 3: Well, I think for me, a lot of it was

1873
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 3: just that's my identity, you know. I wanted to serve,

1874
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 3: you know, I had that part of me that just

1875
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 3: always wants to be the one that's going to stand

1876
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 3: in the gap in a way.

1877
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 2: I guess you could say, but.

1878
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 3: You know, but I think part of it is like, uh,

1879
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:34,679
Speaker 3: it's almost like, you know, maybe it wasn't the best

1880
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 3: idea for me to do that, you know what I mean,

1881
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 3: looking back, you know, because of the because the toll

1882
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 3: it costs. It was a very big toll that it cost.

1883
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 2: Me, you know what I mean. I I just look

1884
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 2: back and you know, my PTSD got so bad, you know,

1885
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago that it manifested in.

1886
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 3: Swallowing issues I thought I had. I thought I was

1887
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 3: something wrong with my swallowing. I was like choking on

1888
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 3: food and I couldn't drink coffee or water. Sometimes I

1889
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 3: was everything is just like in my throat would like

1890
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 3: shut down. And we went for like almost a year

1891
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 3: agoing to specialist and trying to figure out what's wrong.

1892
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 2: We finally figured out, like it's it's it's not my throat,

1893
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 2: it's like my PTSD, you know what I mean. And

1894
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 2: so I had to throttle back, you know, the SWAT stuff.

1895
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 2: I was an explosive breacher.

1896
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 3: I was, you know, We're doing fifty call outs a

1897
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 3: year on the SWAT team, and I'm.

1898
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 2: In the drug unit and doing all these other things.

1899
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:28,720
Speaker 2: And I just had to like I had to like

1900
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 2: throttle it back and get my life together because I

1901
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna make it if I kept going down that road.

1902
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:37,799
Speaker 3: I think my body like there's sometimes like Colonel Hackworth

1903
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 3: had of saying, like everybody's got a bottle, you know

1904
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 3: what I mean, And some bottles.

1905
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 2: Are bigger than other bottles. But when you fill it up.

1906
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 3: When it's full, it's full, and it's like kind of

1907
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 3: like I think for me, like my bottle filled up,

1908
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 3: and I had to change the way I was living.

1909
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 3: I had to change like my identity in some ways

1910
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 3: and say that I'm not the door kicker anymore. I'm

1911
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 3: not like so, you know what I mean, I have

1912
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 3: to do this for myself, for my kids, for my

1913
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 3: wife or my family. I've got to I've got to

1914
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 3: get held, you know what I mean. And so that's

1915
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,080
Speaker 3: kind of where where it went for me. But it

1916
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 3: was just years and years and years of not dealing

1917
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 3: with it, and my body finally was like, you know what,

1918
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 3: We're gonna deal with it whether you.

1919
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 2: Like it or not, you know what I mean.

1920
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 3: And so your body has a way of just saying

1921
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 3: like you're gonna listen now, you know what I mean.

1922
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well, Chris, it's not like so when

1923
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 1: I came back, I mean, obviously, you don't go through

1924
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:36,160
Speaker 1: what we went through and not have post traumatic stress.

1925
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 1: Some post traumatic stress. It's just you just don't. And

1926
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,719
Speaker 1: by the way, that's completely normal. You go through something traumatic,

1927
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: whether it's a horrible car accident, god forbid, like a

1928
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 1: sexual assault or combat trauma. It changes you. It's just

1929
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: it's a normal human reaction to very terrible things. So

1930
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: let's just get that out of the way right off

1931
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 1: the bat. But you know, for me, like I came

1932
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 1: back and you know, I am wired. You and I

1933
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 1: are very similar, Chris, Like I I like to think

1934
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: that I'm the guy, I'm the protector. I want to

1935
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:09,920
Speaker 1: be the one that stands in the gap. I want

1936
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 1: to be the one that volunteers. And you know, being

1937
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: a leader something that was always important to me and

1938
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 1: talking about post traumatic stress and being an advocate for

1939
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 1: it and making sure that guys that have it get help,

1940
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 1: Like it's always been a major part of my platform.

1941
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: But even doing that, Chris, like all of that stuff

1942
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 1: was weaponized against me later in the family court. You know,

1943
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 1: you're broken, Like you're too you're too mentally unstable to

1944
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 1: be a dad. And it's like so even if you

1945
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: do the right thing and you you come home after

1946
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 1: serving your country and volunteering to serve, and you do

1947
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 1: the right thing, you're open about it, you talk about it,

1948
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: you you encourage others to get help, it can it

1949
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: still can be weaponized against you know, and it's just wrong.

1950
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,400
Speaker 1: It's wrong, man, And like because because I remember thinking

1951
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 1: when I was going through all that, thinking like Jesus,

1952
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 1: like you know whatever, I I can handle this, I'll

1953
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 1: get through this. But like, but like, how many people

1954
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 1: are watching this trial now that are maybe a veteran

1955
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 1: then think like with Jess Man, like I'm not talking

1956
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: like God, I'm not talking about my experience anymore because look,

1957
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 1: look look at how look at having him you know yeah,

1958
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 1: and like.

1959
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's it's not cool.

1960
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 1: It's not right, it's not right. And like here you are,

1961
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: like you had a little bit of an opposite problem, Chris,

1962
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,640
Speaker 1: because you were just like go go, go, go go,

1963
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 1: and you're like locking that pain away. And you're right

1964
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:35,839
Speaker 1: like when you when you do that, like your body

1965
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 1: sends you signals like hey, man, like got to deal

1966
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 1: with this stuff. And in your and in your case,

1967
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: the physical manifestation of that was was like swallowing issues. Right, Yeah,

1968
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: it is crazy, but it's what I'm saying. It doesn't

1969
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,679
Speaker 1: seem like there's a good path any like one really

1970
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: good solid set path.

1971
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 2: For people that are struggling after a war.

1972
01:29:56,439 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 3: You know, No, it's tough, man. I mean for like

1973
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 3: when I I got out, it was nobody. I mean,

1974
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 3: you just get out like good luck, you know what

1975
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 3: I mean, Like it's there was nothing. You know, it

1976
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 3: took like a ten question like.

1977
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 2: Do you have you know, nightmares or whatever?

1978
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: You know, have you ever killed anybody? Have you ever

1979
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: seen a dead body? You remember this checklist? Yeah, it's

1980
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 1: like how many dead bodies like like exactly.

1981
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 3: Like at one time or yeah, yeah, man it was crazy,

1982
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 3: you know.

1983
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, So you know what I do now

1984
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:34,400
Speaker 2: is like you know, I do like wellness, pure support

1985
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 2: type stuff. And that's kind of how I've changed my roles,

1986
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:37,519
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

1987
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,639
Speaker 3: I think it's very important, but it's a different mission

1988
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 3: than what I've I've spent most you know, five and

1989
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:46,640
Speaker 3: a half years is a you know combat if it

1990
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 3: trumen and then you know, fifteen.

1991
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,559
Speaker 2: Years as a police officer. You know, I've I've been

1992
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, I've done everything on this job. I've done.

1993
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 2: You know, I did patrol for eight years.

1994
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 3: I uh, I was a criminal investigations the division detective

1995
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 3: for two and a half years. It's drug detective for

1996
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 3: almost four years. So we're working like federal wires, state

1997
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 3: wire cases, your own cases.

1998
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,480
Speaker 2: I worked in our tech ops.

1999
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 3: Portion of our drug unit, which is like our higher

2000
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 3: tech stuff like overt cameras and things like that, and

2001
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 3: you know, obviously Swat team for six years. Preacher, explosive, breacher.

2002
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:31,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I just lived the life. I never really know.

2003
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 3: Some guys will do four or five years. I'll get

2004
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 3: promoted to sergeant and they'll become a lieutenant, they'll kind

2005
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 3: of take on an admin role. I've always been more

2006
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 3: like the kind of just getting my hands dirty kind

2007
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 3: of guy. But that also because of that, you just

2008
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 3: never you can never shut it off, you know what

2009
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 3: I mean. At some point you've got to get got

2010
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 3: to get away from it. I think you got to

2011
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 3: find somewhere else to put your your energies and your

2012
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 3: passions into, because I think for a guy like me,

2013
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:59,120
Speaker 3: it's like I just I wasn't gonna last forever.

2014
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 2: I think some guys can. I think some guys can

2015
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:02,280
Speaker 2: maybe do it. I just couldn't.

2016
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 3: I got to a breaking point where I just like

2017
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 3: I just couldn't. I wasn't going to be functioning right anymore.

2018
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: You know, Churs, you never had a break, like just

2019
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: hearing everything that you just did, and then in addition

2020
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 1: to two combat deployments to Afghanistan. You never once came

2021
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 1: up for air. You were just running NonStop.

2022
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and that's and it got me. So, yeah,

2023
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,919
Speaker 3: you have to. You gotta take care of yourself.

2024
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that that experience, like as tough as

2025
01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 1: it was for you, do you think it's made it better?

2026
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: At what at the job you're doing now? You talk

2027
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 1: about wellness, like, talk about that a little bit.

2028
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know.

2029
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 3: I think it's it's made me, you know, because I've

2030
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 3: gone through some pain here, you know what I mean,

2031
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 3: Like I've been you know, I did a year of

2032
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 3: em d R.

2033
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:47,799
Speaker 2: A year, you know, like fifty one or two sessions

2034
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 2: of em DR, you know, week in, week out. Tell

2035
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 2: us what's em DR.

2036
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 3: I think it stands for like eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing.

2037
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 3: So it's a technique they use where basically when you

2038
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:06,599
Speaker 3: have PTSD, like every those all those memories, bad memories, right,

2039
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 3: negative connotations, and so you try to take those negative

2040
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 3: memories about it and try to turn it into something

2041
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:19,439
Speaker 3: more positive, reprocess it to something that's more positive, like, hey,

2042
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 3: it really sucked, I almost got my ass shot off

2043
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 3: all the time, in Afghanistan, but I lived, you know

2044
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 3: what I mean, Or just I'm kind of joking around here,

2045
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 3: but you know what I mean, like I made it through.

2046
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 2: It made me stronger maybe the person I am, you

2047
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean.

2048
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 3: It's kind of cognitively thinking about it differently, you know

2049
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 3: what I mean. And so I do think it's helped

2050
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 3: me for sure. There's so many different therapies out there

2051
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:42,800
Speaker 3: there right now. You've got these you know, special ops

2052
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 3: guys doing like this low dose ketamine stuff. You got

2053
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 3: all kinds of stuff that people are doing, and I've

2054
01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:49,760
Speaker 3: heard good things about some of them.

2055
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:51,720
Speaker 2: I don't know much about a lot of them, like,

2056
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 2: but uh, yeah, there's some interesting things out there. For

2057
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 2: as far as when it comes to the treatment.

2058
01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 3: Of PTSD, I used to think that PTSD was like curable, like, oh,

2059
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:04,080
Speaker 3: you can cure it. I don't think you can cure PTSD,

2060
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,519
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, at least not yet.

2061
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 2: But I do think you can manage it, you know

2062
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 2: what I mean. I think it's something you can manage

2063
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 2: and live with.

2064
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,840
Speaker 3: But you just got to realize you're never going to

2065
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 3: be the same person you were before you went over

2066
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 3: to that battlefield. You know what I mean, Like it

2067
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 3: just changes you, you know what I mean. So that's

2068
01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 3: pretty much what I would what I would say about that.

2069
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: So, so how are things? How are things going for you?

2070
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:27,799
Speaker 2: Now?

2071
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 1: How's how's the family? Or is retirement on the horizon

2072
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: for you?

2073
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:36,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I less than two years.

2074
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 3: I'm hoping to retire because I could buy back some

2075
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 3: my military time and I did buy that back, so yeah,

2076
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,519
Speaker 3: I can retire, and I'm just looking at, you know,

2077
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 3: options of where I want to go as far as

2078
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:51,760
Speaker 3: you know, I'm thinking along the lines of, you know,

2079
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:57,439
Speaker 3: possibly ministry related things, chaplaincy, you know, maybe something even

2080
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,160
Speaker 3: entrepreneurial within that we'll see, you know what I mean,

2081
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:02,760
Speaker 3: maybe a couple of different things. I don't have to

2082
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:04,280
Speaker 3: make a ton of money when I'm retired. I'll have

2083
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:09,840
Speaker 3: my retirement. My wife makes good money, you know, so

2084
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:10,360
Speaker 3: you know.

2085
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 2: I think we'll be will be good to go.

2086
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:13,640
Speaker 3: We're just doing everything everyone else is trying to do

2087
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:15,719
Speaker 3: with their kids, and trying to get my kids through college,

2088
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:18,719
Speaker 3: and you know, we're trying to pay off the house

2089
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 3: and save for safe for retirement because I'm not when

2090
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 3: I retire from the job, and just retiring from the police,

2091
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,920
Speaker 3: I'm obviously going to continue to work. So yeah, we'll see,

2092
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:28,880
Speaker 3: we'll see where it goes. You know, we're I'm looking

2093
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 3: at a few things right now.

2094
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: So well, well, you know, anytime you want to come

2095
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 1: back and talk about stuff, man, you're always welcome. And

2096
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's dude, we had almost a three hour conversation.

2097
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: This is by far the longest podcast that I've done

2098
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: with anybody, and first two part podcasts that I've done.

2099
01:35:48,479 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: But this country is very, very very lucky to have

2100
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 1: people like you in it, Chris. I mean, there are

2101
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 1: lots of there there, there are a lot of people

2102
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 1: that vutier to serve their country, but there aren't a

2103
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: lot of people that have been through what you've been through,

2104
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: both in Afghanistan and then for fifteen years as a

2105
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,640
Speaker 1: police officer and some of the toughest assignments domestically that

2106
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:16,320
Speaker 1: you can possibly imagine. I mean, you've been put through

2107
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:19,799
Speaker 1: the ringer on behalf of a grateful nation with service,

2108
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:24,639
Speaker 1: always putting other people first, driving you one hundred percent

2109
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 1: of the time. So you know, we wish you the best, man.

2110
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 1: You know, I love you. You're, like, like I said,

2111
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: like probably one of my best friends. And anytime that

2112
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:37,600
Speaker 1: you need anything, you come back. We talk on this podcast.

2113
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:40,880
Speaker 1: And like I said, like for people who are watching

2114
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 1: or listening, like, as this podcast continues to grow, I

2115
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:46,839
Speaker 1: want to continue to give platforms to guys like Chris

2116
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 1: to tell their stories so that America understands what men

2117
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: like Chris go through. And so Chris on behalf of

2118
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 1: all of us here and my whole team and everybody

2119
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 1: that watches. Man, God bless you, Thanks Se and thanks

2120
01:36:58,560 --> 01:36:59,520
Speaker 1: for everything, brother.

2121
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:01,840
Speaker 2: God blessed. Bro appreciate it.

2122
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 1: Thank you all right, thanks for joining. I'll talk to

2123
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 1: you later, bro yep later. All right, everybody, And that

2124
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 1: is a rap with Chris Callen, my squad leader from

2125
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 1: the Outlaw Platoon. Two deployments to Afghanistan, then a police

2126
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 1: officer in a real tough city, done every tough job

2127
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 1: known demand. Yeah, I think we're going to do more

2128
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 1: of these. You know, we've been at war for twenty years,

2129
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 1: have very very little show forward except for an entire

2130
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 1: generation of American warriors with amazing stories, and we are

2131
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: going to do everything that we can to make sure

2132
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,720
Speaker 1: that we tell you those stories. So thank you for

2133
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 1: tuning into the Battleground Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave reviews,

2134
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 1: share screenshots of you listening on social media. I'll share

2135
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 1: them to my Instagram and oh, by the way, since

2136
01:37:56,280 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 1: we started this podcast, my Instagram profile has grown from

2137
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand people.

2138
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:04,280
Speaker 2: To almost seventy thousand people.

2139
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:07,679
Speaker 1: So thank you for tuning in. Go to the website

2140
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 1: Official Seanparnew dot com. We are just starting to roll

2141
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,759
Speaker 1: out in Battleground Apperil. It's gonna be awesome and as always,

2142
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. Never quit, never surrender. God bless

2143
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:24,360
Speaker 1: you all, and God bless this amazing country that we

2144
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:25,519
Speaker 1: live in. Take care