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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, yet another extra special guest,

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Speaker 2: Is There any Other Kind? Sanana Sinha is the global

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Speaker 2: head of Private Capital Advisory Group for Raymond James. The

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Speaker 2: Raymond James platform manages one point six trillion dollars in

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Speaker 2: total assets and advises on a whole lot more. Sanana

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Speaker 2: had stood up her own private capital group, Siebel Capital,

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Speaker 2: which was acquired by Raymond James, and she's been there

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Speaker 2: for the past three and a half years. She works

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Speaker 2: as an advisor for a number of LPs and gps

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Speaker 2: and pretty much everybody in between. If you're at all

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Speaker 2: interested in the growth in private equity, in private capital

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Speaker 2: and how this sector of the investment world is changing

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Speaker 2: and where it might go, I think you'll find this

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Speaker 2: to be a fascinating conversation. Sanana has a unique perch

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Speaker 2: in the world of not only venture and an angel investing,

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Speaker 2: but most especially private equity and private capital. I found

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Speaker 2: this conversation to be fascinating, and I think you will also.

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Speaker 2: With no further ado, my conversation with Raymond James Sanana Sinha.

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Speaker 2: Sanana Sinha, Welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me very well.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming. So I was delving

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Speaker 2: through your background, and I had a first ask BS

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Speaker 2: in Management science and a master's in engineering and in

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Speaker 2: chemical engineering from Stanford where you were a Mayfield Fellow,

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Speaker 2: and then an NBA from Harvard. What was the original

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Speaker 2: career plan.

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Speaker 3: Well, the original career plan very much was to go

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Speaker 3: into the biotech industry, which is what I did after

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Speaker 3: I graduated from Stanford. Hence the masters and chemical engineering,

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Speaker 3: which was an unusual masterress to get after doing the

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Speaker 3: undergraduate in industrial engineering which was then relabeled as Management

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Speaker 3: Sciences and Engineering at Stanford, but it allowed me to

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Speaker 3: go into the healthcare vertical. Straight out of Stanford, I

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Speaker 3: worked for two small and medium sized businesses owned by

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Speaker 3: the same investor group and cut my teeth on those

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Speaker 3: and then realized as a result of that experience, firsually

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Speaker 3: was phenomenal experience. I was working directly with the CEO

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Speaker 3: and president of both companies, but I realized that the

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Speaker 3: biotech vertical was not my playing field for the long term.

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Speaker 3: Hence the NBA at Harvard to find another career path,

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Speaker 3: and that led me into asset management.

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Speaker 2: So the really interesting thing I for reasons between Stanford

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Speaker 2: and the fact that you're here via San Francisco. I

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Speaker 2: just assumed you were living out there, but you're not.

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Speaker 2: You're London based. Tell me how did you end up

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Speaker 2: picking Stanford? How did you end up in California?

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Speaker 3: You know, I grew up all over the world. They

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Speaker 3: call people like me third culture kids. They were born

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Speaker 3: in one place. So born in India, grew up in

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Speaker 3: many other places and then land up in another place altogether.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you say many other places, what I often

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Speaker 2: hear is, you know, India to London, to Boston, New York, California.

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Speaker 2: You seem to have traveled a little where else. Tell

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Speaker 2: me where you grew up.

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Speaker 3: So, my dad was a diplomat for the World Bank.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Nigeria, in Legos, in Harari, Zimbabwe,

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Speaker 3: and then in Hanoi, Vietnam. I applied to universities from

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Speaker 3: colleges in the US and also in the UK. From Hanoi,

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Speaker 3: there were no places to take the SAT in Vietnam

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Speaker 3: back then, so we flew to Bangkok. My dad flew

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Speaker 3: me to BANKOK to take my SAT ones, and then

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Speaker 3: we flew back a few weeks later to take the

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Speaker 3: SAT twos, and I flew back again to do interviews,

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Speaker 3: and I was blessed enough to get into a number

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Speaker 3: of great US IVY leagues, but ended up choosing Stanford

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Speaker 3: because even then Berry I knew I was an entrepreneur

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Speaker 3: at heart. I wanted to build businesses, scale businesses, and

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Speaker 3: help other people scale their businesses. And Stanford had that

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Speaker 3: rag magic between entrepreneurship and technology and the nexus of

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Speaker 3: starting to grow things, which is what I wanted to

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Speaker 3: learn most.

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Speaker 2: We always pay attention to regions where there is a

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Speaker 2: pool of capital, a world class educational institution, and a

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Speaker 2: private sector that can combine all three. There's no doubt

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Speaker 2: Silicon Valley and Stanford is one of the leading places.

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Speaker 2: So if that's what you wanted to do, you certainly picked. Well,

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Speaker 2: how did you end up back in London as where

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Speaker 2: you wanted to live?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So I had the most incredible experience at Stanford.

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Speaker 3: Ended up working in the Bay Area straight after that,

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Speaker 3: still very close ties to Stanford, was still teaching a

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Speaker 3: class there over even after graduation and working with a

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Speaker 3: bunch of professors out there at the time. When it

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Speaker 3: came to picking where I wanted to do my MBA again,

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Speaker 3: I had the choice between the Stanford of the East

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Speaker 3: as I call Harvard Business School, but also to go

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Speaker 3: back to Stanford, and I knew that if I didn't leave,

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Speaker 3: then I may never leave the Barrier. It's such a

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Speaker 3: special place and such a special bastion, an ecosystem of

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Speaker 3: entrepreneurship and technology and growth and ideas. Made the decision

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Speaker 3: to leave just to try something new at that point,

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Speaker 3: went to Harvard for my MBA, and then had made

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Speaker 3: the choice at that point to switch out of biotech

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Speaker 3: and interviewed with a whole bunch of firms and ended

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Speaker 3: up getting into the hedge fund world, doing capital raising

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Speaker 3: for two large hedge funds, and one of them, Brevan Howard,

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Speaker 3: would was headquartered in London. So moved over to London

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Speaker 3: back in two thousand and nine, and the rest is history.

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Speaker 3: Have been a resident of London. My family would argue

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Speaker 3: with you Berry and argue with anybody who asked them

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Speaker 3: that I live on a plane, because I managed a

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Speaker 3: global business over seven offices, six of which happened to

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Speaker 3: be in the US. So I'm Stateside a lot and

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Speaker 3: also traveled the rest of Europe, but home very much

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Speaker 3: is London to so.

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Speaker 2: I want to rewind a little bit. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to skip that middle experience. So you were at a

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Speaker 2: couple of hedge funds. You were Bridgewater, which is headquartered

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Speaker 2: in Greenwich, Connecticut, and you were at Brevin Howard, which

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Speaker 2: was which is still headquartered in London. In either of

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Speaker 2: those cases, you weren't working as an investor, right you

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Speaker 2: were a research and analyst capital raiser. How did those

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Speaker 2: experiences at Bridgewater and Brevien Howard affect how you look

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Speaker 2: at the world of investing? Clearly two superstar funds that

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Speaker 2: have put together a really impressive long term track record.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely when it comes to any asset management business, very

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Speaker 3: two things important. Make smart investment decisions and have investors

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Speaker 3: to back you to do them right. And so I

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Speaker 3: knew I had to master in one of those those streams,

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Speaker 3: and the stream I picked was I do the capital

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Speaker 3: raising too. That enables the asset management industry engine to turn.

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Speaker 3: And both Bridgewater and Brevin Howard were incredible training grounds

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Speaker 3: to teach you just how to do that, but secondly,

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Speaker 3: how to cover investors systematically, and how to think about

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Speaker 3: the world in a holistic way and what levers drive

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Speaker 3: what others. Both for macro hedge funds as you know,

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Speaker 3: and understanding how macro markets work, how they interplay with

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Speaker 3: each other is incredibly important. I use that day to

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Speaker 3: day when I speak to my private equity clients today.

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Speaker 3: I use it all the time when it comes to

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Speaker 3: understanding how markets are going to affect different types of investors.

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Speaker 3: How does the oil price impact my sovereign wealth fund investors,

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Speaker 3: How does what's happening with rates impact endowments and pension plans.

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Speaker 3: All of it is incredibly interlinked. And it's that interlinkage

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Speaker 3: that macro thinking really teaches.

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Speaker 2: You, huh, really intriguing. So it's kind of interesting that

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Speaker 2: you're in private equity. You spend time in the world

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Speaker 2: of hedge funds, but you also made a number of

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Speaker 2: venture investments going back to the early twenty tens. Tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about how you sort of got

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Speaker 2: involved in seed and angel investing, very early stage venture investing.

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Speaker 3: You know, we all have to decide what our gifts

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Speaker 3: are to offer in the world. What of the gifts

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Speaker 3: I have to offer is how do you help businesses growth,

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Speaker 3: hack and get to the next level of scale. I

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Speaker 3: did that with two businesses early on in the early

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Speaker 3: twenty tens, as you say, I bought a business called

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Speaker 3: Barkres fitness boutique in the UK doing something new for

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Speaker 3: women by women. Grew that over a course of six

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Speaker 3: or seven years, very successful business, and sold that to

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Speaker 3: a private equity back Strategic. Did that again with a

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Speaker 3: business called Mindful Chef, a healthy recipe box business that

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Speaker 3: grew like gangbusters, especially over the COVID years, and sold

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Speaker 3: that to n Eslay as well. And now I'm chairperson

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Speaker 3: of the board of a publicly listed company called SFC Energy.

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Speaker 3: They do clean energy fuel cells and being able to

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Speaker 3: steer entrepreneurs and enable them to realize their vision and

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Speaker 3: think tactically as well as strategically as to how to

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Speaker 3: get there to help them do that, That's very much

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Speaker 3: something that helps me come alive every single day.

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Speaker 2: So let's expand on that. Most people, I would imagine

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Speaker 2: think of angel investing very different than private equity investing.

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Speaker 2: One is you're betting on a team, You're betting on

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Speaker 2: a founder and some innovative new idea where there may

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Speaker 2: not even be a market for that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yet as opposed to taking existing company and management team

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Speaker 2: and product and saying here's how to level up, here's

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Speaker 2: how to make this more productive, efficient and really reach

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Speaker 2: your potential. What's the overlap or what skills you bring

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Speaker 2: from one to the other.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the most important skill I bring is

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Speaker 3: the fact that I've started my own business, grown it

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Speaker 3: from scratch, and sold it to a fortune three hundred.

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Speaker 3: So I've seen all legs of this journey.

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Speaker 2: So not just an investor, but an operator.

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Speaker 3: An operator, and a grower of her own business. So

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Speaker 3: that's the first thing. The second thing is you are

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Speaker 3: absolutely right buried. The muscle it takes to grow from

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Speaker 3: zero to ten a revenue or zero to ten of

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Speaker 3: ibadah is very different from the journey that takes ten

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Speaker 3: from ten to one hundred and one hundred to a billion.

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Speaker 3: These are different muscles, and these are different levers in

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Speaker 3: the business but also levers in mindset. I've done zero

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Speaker 3: to ten quite a few times. So in my angel

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Speaker 3: investing businesses, it was very much that hey, how do

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Speaker 3: we get from zero to ten of ibadah? That takes

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Speaker 3: a certain amount of nimbleness, hunger, agility, scrappiness, and I

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Speaker 3: love that. Having done that myself, I know what that

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Speaker 3: feels like. I can relate to the entrepreneurs. I can

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Speaker 3: help them duck and weave through whatever's coming at them.

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Speaker 2: I'm sensing the word pivot coming.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to use it because you used it already,

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Speaker 3: but you've got to be able to figure out what

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Speaker 3: I call the incomings. If life is throwing a lot

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Speaker 3: at you, the market throws a lot at you, and

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Speaker 3: what are you going to ignore and deflect? And what

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Speaker 3: are you going to say? Okay, that's the signal from

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Speaker 3: this noise. That's where I double click. That takes a

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Speaker 3: pattern recognition that I have. Now that said, over the

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Speaker 3: last few years, once I've sold my business to Raymond James,

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Speaker 3: I'm doing that second leg of the journey. How do

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Speaker 3: you something that's established, growing, proven, and really scale it.

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Speaker 3: And that's the same thing I'm doing with the public

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Speaker 3: board seat at SFC, helping that management team and that

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Speaker 3: board take an existing business of his business is doing,

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Speaker 3: you know, close to one hundred and fifteen million dollars

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Speaker 3: of revenue, you know, very profitable, growing organically thirty percent

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Speaker 3: year and year. How do you take that and scale

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Speaker 3: that to the next level? How do you make that

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Speaker 3: a billion dollar business? So now I'm trying my hand

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Speaker 3: at that second leg of the journey, but that first

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Speaker 3: leg of zero to ten that I've done a few

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Speaker 3: times over, and I think I've got real value to

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Speaker 3: add to entrepreneurs there.

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Speaker 2: So let me roll even further back. You launch Seable

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Speaker 2: Capital in twenty eleven. What made you decide I'm going

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Speaker 2: to throw out a whole new company that's focused on

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Speaker 2: was it venture or private equity?

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Speaker 3: At the beginning, it was focused both on private equity

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Speaker 3: and hedge funds, But within a year and a half

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Speaker 3: I retired all our hedge fund business because I could

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Speaker 3: see the capital inflows going into the private markets opportunity.

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Speaker 3: That was the right call to make. As you think

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Speaker 3: about the last decade, the influence into private equity have

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Speaker 3: been phenomenal, and we've been a great beneficiary of that,

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Speaker 3: of that flaw and that movement. But in the early days,

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Speaker 3: what enabled me to start, or what gave me the

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Speaker 3: conviction to start, was really the belief that build it

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Speaker 3: and they will come, and if they don't come, at

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Speaker 3: least you're enjoying the journey for yourself. I knew I

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Speaker 3: loved capital raising. I knew I could do that effectively,

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Speaker 3: and I could do that for a handful of clients.

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Speaker 3: And my goal very much was, let me give this

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Speaker 3: a shot, and if it doesn't work, I'll go out

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Speaker 3: and get the job again. I was in my early thirties.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have a mortgage, I didn't have kids, I

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Speaker 3: had very few liabilities. It was a risk, it was

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Speaker 3: a calculated one, and I'm very glad I took it

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Speaker 3: because it worked out beautifully. But it's not for the

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Speaker 3: feint of heart, that's for sure. Being an entrepreneur isn't anyway.

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Speaker 3: But being an entrepreneur in an industry like financial services,

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Speaker 3: where there's these old and very incumbent eight hundred pound

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Speaker 3: gorillas are all around you is certainly.

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Speaker 2: Not, to say the very least. You went to Stanford.

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Speaker 2: You were an adjunct professor, visiting guest professor.

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Speaker 3: I was a guest lecturer with engineering.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but you're also on the advisory board for the

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Speaker 2: Stanford Institute of Economic Policy and Research. Tell us a

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Speaker 2: little bit about what you do there and how that

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Speaker 2: ties into your day job.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I love macro and I love thinking

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Speaker 3: about how policy and macro movements around markets around the

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Speaker 3: world really impact what's happening in the ground reality for

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Speaker 3: businesses that are run all over the world. The SEEPER,

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Speaker 3: as it's called, the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy and Research,

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Speaker 3: is an incredible congregation of leading economists, Nobel laureates, policy

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Speaker 3: advisors from all walks of life across Stanford around the

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Speaker 3: world who joined the Institute to look at the big

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Speaker 3: problems facing the world today and think about how do

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Speaker 3: you solve them, how do you come at them. It

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Speaker 3: could be from looking at how social security reform, or

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Speaker 3: look at homelessness in California, or thinking about the age

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Speaker 3: issue in Japan. They could look at any number of

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Speaker 3: issues globally and parse it using the world's leading experts

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Speaker 3: and actually research how to come out at the other

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Speaker 3: side of it. Some of the most powerful research that

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Speaker 3: I've encountered at sipor being on that board, I'll give

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Speaker 3: you one that really astounded me. One of the researchers there,

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Speaker 3: Nick Bloom, has done some of the most definitive research

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Speaker 3: on flexible working and how it impacts productivity, retention, and

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Speaker 3: how it's very much here to stay or should be

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Speaker 3: very much flies in the face of how some Wall

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Speaker 3: Street banks think about the return to work. Fascinating empirical

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Speaker 3: evidence there that he's collected. Another piece of research there

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Speaker 3: that I'll quickly mention is work on labor force participation

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Speaker 3: by women dipping in the summer months as kids come

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Speaker 3: out to school. Interesting on how.

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Speaker 2: It's very seasonal, very seasonal.

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Speaker 3: What do we do about that that costs the US

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Speaker 3: United States GDP growth in the summer months. Fascinating the

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Speaker 3: interlinkages between women, our education policy, labor force productivity, and

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Speaker 3: again ultimately the growth of the economy.

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Speaker 2: So early in the twenty tens, you were doing some

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Speaker 2: angel investing. Tell us what you were looking for, either

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Speaker 2: in sectors or technologies. What attracted you to the angel space.

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Speaker 3: What attracted me to that angel space was that I

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Speaker 3: was building my business and had skills in learnings I

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Speaker 3: wanted to share. But more importantly, when I looked for

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Speaker 3: businesses and entrepreneurs to back, it came down to two

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Speaker 3: very important criteria. The first is people, people people. I

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Speaker 3: learned that during my Mayfield Fellows Program journey at Stanford

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Speaker 3: where that was drilled into us. It starts with the people.

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Speaker 3: It ends with the people. And secondly, the companies and

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Speaker 3: the products they were building had to do good and

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Speaker 3: do well right that they had to have a positive

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Speaker 3: impact on the community that they operated in. So if

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Speaker 3: you think about the recipe food business that was all

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Speaker 3: about healthy eating, the fitness business was all about an

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Speaker 3: exercise program that's efficiently designed for women's bodies. You think

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Speaker 3: about the clean energy business that I am now a

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Speaker 3: chair on the board of that is all about clean

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Speaker 3: energy fuel sell alternatives to diesel generators and to polluting

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Speaker 3: generator types. So that's kind of the thematic that I

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Speaker 3: lean into the most really interesting.

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Speaker 2: So you very easily could have either set this up

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Speaker 2: as a VC fund or affiliated yourself with a venture group.

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Speaker 2: What are the advantages to being an individual making single

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Speaker 2: decision investments into a startup?

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Speaker 3: I think the biggest advantage is that there's full alignment

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Speaker 3: because you're not operating with OPM other people's money. It

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Speaker 3: is your money, it's your skin in the game. The

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Speaker 3: alignment of interest is one thing that you learn in

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Speaker 3: private equity and all private markets investing that it's all

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Speaker 3: about alignment of interest. You can't exit these things unless

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Speaker 3: you grow value and you're in sync with the founders

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Speaker 3: and with the management teams because they're private businesses. So

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Speaker 3: you've got to figure out if you have that match

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Speaker 3: an alignment of both economic interest but also vision and

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Speaker 3: execution forte into the next three to five year journey.

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Speaker 3: That's the minimum amount of amount of time you'll be

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Speaker 3: together for. So that's why I think doing it as

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Speaker 3: an individual always gave me much more reward and also

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Speaker 3: quite frankly, economic success than doing it as a fund investor.

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Speaker 3: The other thing I'd add is that I found very

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Speaker 3: early on that professionally speaking, in terms of my day job, Berry,

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Speaker 3: what was I really good at. I was really good

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Speaker 3: at the capital markets function. I was really good at

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Speaker 3: the capital raising, liquidity organization started side of the business,

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Speaker 3: and that's what Sibil Capital did. So I knew that

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Speaker 3: was going to be my day to day jam and

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Speaker 3: on the board of some of these companies I would

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Speaker 3: be able to go and add the value of how

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Speaker 3: to grow their business.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about your day job.

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Speaker 2: You set up Seeble Capital in London, right, that's where

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Speaker 2: you found it. So before we get into the advisory

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Speaker 2: services you provide, I'm a big angli phile. I love London,

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Speaker 2: but there's such a difference between how they operate the

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Speaker 2: economy and especially the financial sector. Let's talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about that. What's it like being Is it even

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Speaker 2: by coastal your ny you know you're nylon producer, Jilan.

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Speaker 2: That's right. How different is the UK finance from the US?

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Speaker 2: And start the startup mentality? It seems that failure is

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Speaker 2: not a dirty word in the US. I don't get

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Speaker 2: that same vibe from Europe. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about the differences.

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, operating in the UK and in Europe

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Speaker 3: at large and the US are fundamentally different. Having been

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Speaker 3: at Stanford worked in the Bay Area, I then went

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Speaker 3: to Harvard and worked in the Boston ecosystem. Came out

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Speaker 3: of New York. London was a bit of an adjustment,

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Speaker 3: I will tell you that because the startup ecosystem, especially

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Speaker 3: in the early twenty tens, there was nowhere near what

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Speaker 3: it was in San Francisco and the area.

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Speaker 2: And I mean that's a well established mature, if you

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Speaker 2: could say, mature startup cragian, but it is in the

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Speaker 2: same with Boston and New York one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred percent and so starting SABIL Capital in London ended

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Speaker 3: up being both a blessing and a curse. Why was

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Speaker 3: it blessing? It was a blessing because there was not

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Speaker 3: that many startups there period. There was not that many

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Speaker 3: new entrepreneurs starting financial services companies, and so it made

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Speaker 3: us very unique and able to differentiate ourselves in the

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Speaker 3: UK and European market very quickly. There were not that

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Speaker 3: many new entrants, and we use that to our advantage

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Speaker 3: and often still do. Although the market has definitely come

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Speaker 3: a long way, there are still divergences and how uneasey

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Speaker 3: of doing business. But it became very clear to me

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Speaker 3: Bery very quickly on we would have to diversify our

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Speaker 3: business to be US focused, and so we opened our

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Speaker 3: first office in New York few years after we started,

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Speaker 3: and we've been heavily focused on the US private equity

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Speaker 3: clients and US institutional investors. Have done so from day one,

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Speaker 3: knowing that actually the US market is much deeper and

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Speaker 3: much larger than UK or Europe could ever be. But

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Speaker 3: also the speed of doing business varies quite dramatically.

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Speaker 2: So we've talked about the startup and angel world, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about the advisory work you do for private equity,

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Speaker 2: both in London and the US. I keep coming back

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Speaker 2: to there seems to be such a difference between how

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Speaker 2: companies operate there and how companies operate here. Every now

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Speaker 2: and then a European company comes to the US and succeeds,

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Speaker 2: but more often than not they have a hard time adjusting.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine the same as true vice versa when

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Speaker 2: a US company goes to the UK, at least outside

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Speaker 2: of finance. Finance seems to have found a foothold in

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Speaker 2: Europe from the US. Why the big cultural difference is

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Speaker 2: what is it about the psychology there and here that

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Speaker 2: creates such a different business and investing environment.

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Speaker 3: I think that it depends on what type of investing

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Speaker 3: you do. At its heart, private equity is about builo

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Speaker 3: sell high right. It's a long only strategy in the

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Speaker 3: private markets. So you got to buy a business and

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Speaker 3: you've got to know that you have to add value

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Speaker 3: and make it larger, better, stronger, and then sell it on.

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Speaker 3: So number of the clients we have are pure play

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Speaker 3: regional focused. So we have a German private Egrey client,

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Speaker 3: we have a Benelux private Aqua client, we have a

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Speaker 3: NORDICX private equity client. We've got UK clients and they

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Speaker 3: are experts in understanding what needs to happen to grow

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Speaker 3: their businesses and their companies that they're buying and selling

404
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Speaker 3: in their target market. They know the customer base, they

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Speaker 3: know how to impact the value drivers i e. On

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Speaker 3: the talent acquisition side, on the add on Bolton strategy side.

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Speaker 3: They know how to do that in their regional markets

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Speaker 3: incredibly well.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to interrupt and say, is it

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Speaker 2: that different from Germany to the Netherlands, to Sweden to

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Speaker 2: the UK? Like completely Like in the United States, New

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Speaker 2: York is in Florida, Florida's in Texas. Texas is in California.

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Speaker 2: But you could hop from one place to another, and

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Speaker 2: it's not so different that you can adjust to the

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Speaker 2: regional We more or less speak kind of the same

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Speaker 2: language throughout the country. Maybe there are some dialects and differences,

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Speaker 2: but you know the general gestalt of California, New York, Texas. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the politics may be different, but the business seems to

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Speaker 2: be the same. That's not true when you're a visit.

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Speaker 3: It depends on the size of businesses you're buying. Right,

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Speaker 3: If you're buying businesses that are up to say ten

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Speaker 3: or twenty million dollars or euros of EBIDAB, then it

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Speaker 3: really matters that you're a regional champion, right that you

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Speaker 3: understand how a German business can scale in that end

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Speaker 3: of the market versus how a Nordic business will scale.

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Speaker 3: So they're having regional footholds and expertise really matters. But

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Speaker 3: when you're doing larger businesses and we have clients that

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Speaker 3: are pan regional, that are your P and PAN European

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Speaker 3: buyout players, or there are global buyout players that do

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Speaker 3: global deals US and Europe, but they do them for

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Speaker 3: larger businesses, and larger businesses often tend to have global

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Speaker 3: customers because by definition, you've got to make sure you've

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Speaker 3: diversified your revenue out So it depends on what scale

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Speaker 3: of business you're doing. But even if you are the

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Speaker 3: largest private equity funds out there, they will have local

436
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 3: offices if they know they need to operate in the

437
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: Italian market, they'll have presence in Milan, or they'll have

438
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: Italian experts in house that know how to operate and

439
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: buy businesses in Milan, or they'll have sector experts if

440
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 3: because a software business in Italy is going to be

441
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 3: very similar to software business in Texas. It might the

442
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: operating environment might change, but the characteristics of business and

443
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: how you drive value in that business will often be

444
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: very similar. So you've got to make sure you're either

445
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: a sector or a regional expert, and that often depends

446
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: on the size of business you buy.

447
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: So you've lived in Africa, You've lived in India, you've

448
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: lived in Vietnam, been to Thailand and all over Asia.

449
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: Have you thought of expanding to some of these other

450
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: continents or is it just US and Europe.

451
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: We do cover Asian and Middle Eastern investors in my

452
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: business prolifically and have done from almost the first day

453
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 3: of inception. You cannot ignore the rest of the world.

454
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 3: As you know, the sovereign wealth funds and the institutions

455
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: in the Middle East are big movers in the market today,

456
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 3: and that's today. I started covering Middle Eastern institutions when

457
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: I first opened the doors of the business now fourteen

458
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 3: years ago. And fourteen years ago people were like, I

459
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 3: don't know if I need to go over there. It's

460
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: a huge investment of time and air my airfare and

461
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: so forth. Well, now everyone's saying I wish I'd built

462
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 3: those relationships long ago, because relationships die hard in those

463
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: markets Asia and Middle East, and those relationships I've had

464
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 3: and my team has had for a long time.

465
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 2: Huh. So let's talk a little bit about valuation in

466
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: the public markets. Hard to say, fourth quarter twenty twenty four,

467
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: US markets aren't at the very least fully priced, if

468
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: not richly priced. When we look at the UK, when

469
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: we look at Europe much much less expensive, we see

470
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: a lot of companies trading at book value, not the

471
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: same growth level that we see in the US. Does

472
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: that valuation difference in the public markets extend to private

473
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: markets as well?

474
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: So, firstly, let's comment on the public market side, that

475
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 3: is characterized very much. That valuation gap is characterized by

476
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: the depth of the markets. The US capital markets vibrant,

477
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: incredibly dynamic, incredible fragmentation of investors, deep rich market where

478
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: you can do business on the capital market size presseemously.

479
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: And I would add, plus all these giant mega tech

480
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 2: companies that certainly have rich valuations in skew, whether it's

481
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: a Nazaq one hundred or the S and P five hundred. Yes,

482
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, there's a handful of them. Overseas, Taiwan Semiconductor, asmathroography,

483
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: you can name SAP, you can name like a handful,

484
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: but most of the big ones are here, which certainly

485
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: the valuation on the public side, what do you see

486
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: on the private side.

487
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: On the private side, we see a similar valuation gap

488
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: that and I'll just finish the public market side. The

489
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: UK and the European capital markets just don't have the

490
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: same depth, which is why you see the valuation, missed pricing.

491
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: So you think it's more than just the tech companies.

492
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: It's the structure, it's structural, there's not that many participants.

493
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: It's also legal and regulatory. Right in the UK, there

494
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: was a move away from holding UK assets by the

495
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 3: UK pension plans that suck the liquidity out of the

496
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: UK markets, hence the valuation gap. So there's also regulatory

497
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: angles that are at play there on the private markets,

498
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 3: though I've got to agree with you entirely, there is

499
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 3: evaluation arbitrage even in the private markets that the European

500
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: buyout specialists are able to buy companies at better value

501
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 3: in Europe and scale them into global businesses and sell

502
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: them at global valuations or US market valuation. It comes

503
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: down to selling time. So some of the biggest best

504
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 3: private equity household names that you know, whether it's a

505
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: Blackstone or an Apax or a Clayton, Dubley and Rice

506
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: have headquarters both sides of the pond because there's so

507
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: much value to be harvested by buying smartly in Europe

508
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: and an advantage quite honestly evaluation arbitrage that you can

509
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: play all day long, and many of them do so

510
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: very successfully.

511
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: So you're advising a lot of players in the private

512
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: equity market. Is it general partners gps the funds that

513
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: are essentially running Are they LPs and investors or do

514
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: you advise across the whole space.

515
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: We sit in between the gps and their LPs when

516
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: it comes to and we will raise everything from a

517
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 3: small for us would be a two hundred and fifteen

518
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: million dollar fund and our largest client to raise twenty

519
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 3: seven billion in their flask fund, okay, and everybody in between.

520
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: In the last year alone, we raised north of four

521
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: billion of new capital commitments for our clients and are

522
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: very prolific at ensuring that private equity general partners raise

523
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: the capital they need to go off and buy businesses

524
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: and build the ecosystems around each of their businesses. So

525
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: we sit right in between general partners and limited partners.

526
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: Got a team of over sixty people or seven offices,

527
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: raising capital for our clients but also intermediating in the

528
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 3: liquidity side of the equation in private markets. As you know,

529
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: in the public markets, the second resistance market is much

530
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: larger than the primarysurance market. In private markets today it's flipped.

531
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: But that means explain what you mean by that, Why

532
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: is that? How is that flipped?

533
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: Well, in private markets today there is a one point

534
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: six trillion dollars new capital raising engine that hums along annually.

535
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: That's how much capital is raised across private market funds

536
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: in a twelve month rolling cycle.

537
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: And to just put a little flesh on that, go

538
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: back to before you launched Sebral, private equity was a

539
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: trillion dollars now ten twelve trillion, and it's projected to

540
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 2: go up to twenty something trillion. Absolutely, so this has

541
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: certainly been ramping up rapidly, and your timing was quite

542
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: for two to say you get twenty eleven.

543
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: Yes, very lucky to have launched then, but you're absolutely right.

544
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: But the secondaries market in private markets is only one

545
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: hundred and forty hundred and fifty billion dollars in size,

546
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: but growing rapidly. That market, when we first did our

547
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: first secondaries transactions as a firm in twenty twelve, was

548
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: only twenty billion, a drop in the bucket. Today it's

549
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty billion, still small compared to the

550
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 3: size of the primary private equity market. But these investors

551
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: want liquidity too, Berry, you could help something eight years,

552
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: nine years, ten years, you want out? Who do you

553
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: go to? You've got to call a market maker like

554
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: ourselves who can make an advice on that position in

555
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: the secondaries private equity market to get you liquidity. Can

556
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: I get you a one fun fact?

557
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: Sure?

558
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: The average age of a private equity fund sixteen point

559
00:29:59,600 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: two year.

560
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy.

561
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: It says ten on the tin. It's ten with two

562
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: one year extensions, so up to twelve. But the average

563
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 3: vehicle is around for average is around for sixteen point

564
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: two years. Hence the need for the secondary's market to

565
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: provide liquidity for investors who want out.

566
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: So, just for the lay listener, I want to do

567
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: a little definitional work here. So for when we talk

568
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: about a ten year fund, you're putting money into a

569
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: private equity fund. Over the course of that decade, they're

570
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: making various investments. There's no guarantee in year eleven that

571
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: all of those investments have found an exit, so there'll

572
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: be a series of extensions, and even after those extensions,

573
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: all right, the fund is arguably inactive, but we're trying

574
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: to find an exit for this. A secondary market is

575
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: one way that can take place. It gets people who

576
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: are in that liquid and hopefully at a discount. For

577
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: the buyers who come in and say we'll take this

578
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: at X price, We'll give them liquidly, and then it's

579
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: year one for us, not year twelve. So there are

580
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: different timelines. Is that fair explained?

581
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: It? Very, very beautifully. The only new ones I'd add

582
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: to that is that that liquidity can be asked for

583
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: by both the limited partner so i e. The investor

584
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: and the fund itself. And we get asked by pension plans,

585
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: endowmas foundations, family offices saying hey, we've held this portfolio

586
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: now for eight years, nine years, it's getting along in

587
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: the tooth. Or actually my predecessor made these investments. I'm

588
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: the new CIO. Can you sell this stuff for me,

589
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: I don't like it anymore, or I've actually realized the

590
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: gains I thought I would realize much sooner than I expected.

591
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: Can you sell this on for me? All reasons to

592
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 3: seek liquidity on the limited partner site, and we do

593
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 3: that all day every day. Actually, I've done one hundred

594
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: and sixty three transactions in that space alone in the

595
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: last decade. And we also organize a liquidity when the

596
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: general partner asks us. Sometimes a general partner will say, actually,

597
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 3: can can you help organize liquidity for a company that

598
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: needs to be sold out of the fund because the

599
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 3: fund is reaching its end of life. The fund needs

600
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: to sell some companies, but I general partner want to

601
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: hold on to it longer, so pull it out of

602
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: the fund and put it in its own fund. And

603
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 3: that is called the continuation vehicle space. And that's something

604
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: we do all day every day. As well.

605
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: We've been experiencing something here in the US that I

606
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: find kind of fascinating, and I'm giving you a perch.

607
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: I'm really curious as to what you see in the

608
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: UK and Europe or the rest of the world. Over

609
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: the past decade, there has been, for lack of a

610
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: better word, a democratization of private equity and private debt.

611
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: You used to need twenty or ten million dollars to

612
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: participate in this. I think you can get into a

613
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: number of places for a quarter million, one hundred thousand

614
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: dollars less, very less. So this has you know, when

615
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: I look around at Blackstone and Carlisle and so many

616
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 2: of the big pe firms in the US, they have

617
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: set up parallel funds where you know, there's really practically

618
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: no minimum. Is this trend something that's us focused? Are

619
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: you seeing this in the UK and Europe? Tell us

620
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: a little bit about private equity for everybody.

621
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the entrance of private wealth into private markets, but

622
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: private equity in particular has been the single biggest innovation

623
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: and movement of capital from LP investors into private markets

624
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: in the last five years. It's been happening. It's started

625
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: off over the last decade, but it's really over the

626
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 3: last three to five years we've seen an acceleration. And

627
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: here's the most important fact that as ultra high networth

628
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 3: and high net worth individuals build out their portfolios, they're

629
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: putting equities, they're putting bonds, and they're putting alternatives, and

630
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: alternatives being led by private markets. The average investor in

631
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: private wealth is under allocated to private equity by three

632
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: to five x three to five hundred percent. That is

633
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: a huge number. And so the growth of private wealth

634
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 3: as an investor in private markets has absolutely exploded over

635
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 3: the last two years and will continue to do so

636
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 3: in over the next decade or so. And it's a

637
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: global phenomena. Of course, the US led the way, and

638
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 3: certainly the forty Act regulation of allowing semi liquid evergreen

639
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: products and individuals to invest on those was a huge

640
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 3: game change when it came to private wealth's interest in alternatives.

641
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: We're seeing the same thing in Europe. We're seeing the

642
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 3: same thing in Asia that individuals who have a certain

643
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 3: net worth are saying, I want a bit of private

644
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: equity in my portfolio, how do I go out to

645
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: get it? And more and more sponsors are saying, well,

646
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to create solutions for you to access my

647
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 3: funds and product and my alpha through accessible channels.

648
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: So in the US, when this really began to get

649
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: popular in the twenty tens, one of the big drivers

650
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: was zero interest rates, this ZIP policy where when bonds

651
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: are yielding you know, two two and a half percent

652
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: that side of the portfolio really wasn't producing anything, and

653
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: people started looking around, Hey, where can I get better

654
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: yield private debt? Private equity stepped into that and really

655
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: filled that gap, especially for institutional investors. So I look

656
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: around the world and we had, you know, rates that

657
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 2: were zero for a decade. How significant was that as

658
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: a driver? And then what does it mean now that

659
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: rates are you know, appreciably higher than they were in

660
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: the twenty tens.

661
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 3: There's no doubt that rates being low helped investors seek

662
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 3: yield and seek alpha in different markets, including in private markets.

663
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: But also it helped private equity do deals right, leverage,

664
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: biot requise leverage, and when rates were so low, they

665
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 3: leverage when it was cheap and easily accessible, and they

666
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: used it for that decade of boom that we had

667
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: until rates started going up. Now that roads have gone up,

668
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 3: but they are coming back down, we can always discuss

669
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 3: what neutral looks like. What we have is now investors

670
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 3: seeking where do I invest that I can still find

671
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 3: value in given how expensive the public markets are? Right

672
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 3: you think about the forward pe of the public markets today,

673
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 3: where do I still get relative value? Where I can

674
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 3: buy at sensible multiples and sell at higher ones private markets.

675
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 3: So it's a diversification strategy. And secondly, it's an incredibly

676
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: important way for investors to say that as I think

677
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: about a balanced portfolio, I want to seek investments in

678
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 3: folks who really know how to add value to businesses

679
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: over a period of time, So they'll do that only

680
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: in general partners who have a track record, and that

681
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 3: track record is often anywhere between fifteen to twenty two

682
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: to twenty three percent net IRRs, and that track record

683
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: really matters. So you have to be able to return

684
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: money over the neutral rate, otherwise are not going to

685
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: be viable. Even the best private credit funds will return

686
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: high single digits or low teens type of returns, which

687
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 3: is very much a good diversifier and an addition to

688
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: private wealth portfolios.

689
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: And one of the things I noticed whenever I see

690
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: a private debt or a private credit it used to

691
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: be liboard. Now at SOFRA, it's not a fixed rate,

692
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: it's a variable rate plus some markup beyond that. So

693
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: kind of raises the question low interest rates first sent

694
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: people exploring this aspect of private markets and private credit

695
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: and debt. Do higher rates really have a negative impact,

696
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: or you're still getting whatever the SOFA rate is plus

697
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 2: five six seven percent.

698
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure you're going to get a if you're

699
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 3: comparing to SOFA, you're definitely going to get a return

700
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 3: normalization which did happen when rates were in twenty two

701
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 3: to twenty three, less deals got done because at higher

702
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: rates private equity funds had a difficult time brawing. You know,

703
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 3: the debt markets were shut, so deal value values came down.

704
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 3: If you look at the M and A volumes that

705
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: at most of the major investment banks, including at raymag Jes,

706
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: volumes came down. Now they're on their way back up.

707
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 3: But your point is a salient one. How does it

708
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: impact returns? You have to be able to show if

709
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: you're doing private equity buyouts, you've got to be able

710
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 3: to show that you can do fifteen points over for

711
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: so far.

712
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: Right, fifteen that's a big number, ten.

713
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: To fifteen points. If you are a mid market private

714
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 3: equity house, you are returning twenty percent net IRRs. That's

715
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: kind of what you have to show fund on fund

716
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: and that's interesting. That's why you're added to a portfolio

717
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 3: if you're a private debt strategy. Obviously, not private debt

718
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: will be more like low teens type of numbers. Somewhere

719
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 3: they're ten to thirteen percent net range. But even that

720
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 3: is value add when you think about a debt strategy

721
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: that you know, because even in public market debts, you're

722
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 3: not able to find that type of yield. So as

723
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: rates come down, as money gets pushed out of t bills,

724
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: gets pushed out of money market accounts and starts to

725
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: seek yields again, private markets become interesting to a lot

726
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: of players.

727
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: Huh, really interesting. You mentioned the transaction numbers slid down

728
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: and then came back up again. Does that impact the

729
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: secondaries you've done? You guys have done over two hundred

730
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: secondaries and fundraising transactions. That's a pretty big number for

731
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: a relatively short period of time. How have you seen

732
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: the volumes on secondaries affected by swinging interest rates?

733
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: So there was a dip in the secondaries of markets

734
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 3: transacting volumes in twenty twenty three, in particular, as rates

735
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: were high and investors didn't know what impact that had

736
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 3: on valuation. If you remember first half of twenty twenty three,

737
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: the world froze because you had fed raising interest rates

738
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: and all other central banks you had Ukraine and Russia.

739
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: You had Silicon Valley Bank and then you had Credit Swiss,

740
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: so everybody was deer in headlines, going what on earth

741
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 3: is going on? Volumes came down that year in secondaries

742
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: market as well as an M and A. Now those

743
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: volumes have gone up this year. Twenty twenty four will

744
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: be another high water mark for the secondary's market in

745
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: terms of transacted volumes. And that's because as the private

746
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: markets grow, the need for liquidity and a liquidity solution

747
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: over the period of that ten to fifteen year old

748
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: becomes all the more pertinent for both limited partners and

749
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: general partners. So now regardless of what the rates are doing,

750
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: you have investors saying, you know what, every year or

751
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: every two years, I'm going to sell in the secondaries

752
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: market and move that cash into other more opportunistic situations,

753
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 3: back into a program that will reield me a higher

754
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 3: return because I've made what I needed to make out

755
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: of this portfolio. That's become programmatic amongst many institutional investors.

756
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: So I love the word opportunistic. When in the public markets,

757
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 2: when we get those dislocations and people use the word freeze.

758
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: In public markets, we use the word panic because they

759
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: have the liquidity to engage in bad behavior. It definitely

760
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: creates opportunities. When you see in the private markets people

761
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: polling back and freezing, do you end up seeing the

762
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: same sort of Hey, this is a substantial discount. I

763
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: want to participate in this.

764
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, Berry. It all comes down to the

765
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: discount and other willing sellers sellers at the price. There's

766
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 3: always a price. I'll give you one anecdote. One fund

767
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: interest we sold traded at eight and a half cents

768
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: on the dollar, eight and a half real There was

769
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: a seller who said, get me any price I want out.

770
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: I don't want to hold this anymore. Okay, this was

771
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: I'm going back to twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, But there

772
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: was a buyer at eight and a half percent of

773
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: anav of net ascid value. Great, you have all the

774
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: cushion in the world, and you look like a genius

775
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: when you do your markups the next quarter.

776
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: Even in the worst of the financial crisis, bad mortgages

777
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: pools of bad mortgages, right, they were selling for thirty

778
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: five forty cents seemed like a huge deal. Ninety two

779
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: and a half percent off ninety one and a half

780
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: percent off. That's unbelievable.

781
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: That was in an Asian manager in twenty thirteen. But

782
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: I will say the average discount these days, the best

783
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 3: private equity fund managers do not trade at discounts. They

784
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 3: close it close to their net asset values. They trade

785
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 3: close to par. But the average discount when it comes

786
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: to the average buyout fund is somewhere in the four

787
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 3: to eight percent range for the average private equity buyout fund.

788
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: If you hold venture, especially if it's got a lot

789
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: of fintech in it, these days, that's going at thirty

790
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 3: to fifty percent discount because it's really hard to value

791
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 3: that stuff. As you know, venture and growth is often

792
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: valued that it's last rounds valuation. Well, if your last

793
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: round was back in the boomyrrors and all you've done

794
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 3: is try to tread water and maybe raise some debt,

795
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: you don't have a valid print. So we are seeing

796
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: a lot more spread a bit asport is very wide

797
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 3: in the venture and growth world right now when it

798
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: comes to buyouts, especially mid market large cap buyout at

799
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 3: or close to par in the nineties.

800
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 2: Huh. Really interesting. So you mentioned deal flow has ticked up.

801
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that'll continue into next year. What are some

802
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: of the challenges and headwinds that are out there that

803
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: could be something an investor in the space should be

804
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: aware of.

805
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 3: I think the one that's most salient, that we track

806
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 3: most closely bury is the fact that because the math

807
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 3: broke at the investor level in n twenty to early

808
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 3: twenty three, we're still playing catch up on that. What

809
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 3: does that even mean. It means that the exit activity

810
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 3: the M and A volumes, the ability to sell companies

811
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: and return cash to institutional investors really slowed down from

812
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: summer twenty two onwards, as we had inflation, as we

813
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: had Ukraine, as we had some of the macro.

814
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: Challenges, plus a pretty public market at the same time.

815
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 3: And a very ugly public market. So at that point,

816
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: institutional investors stopped seeing very much cash back from their

817
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: private equity portfolios. They were still having to pay into

818
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: those capital calls that were being made by their private

819
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 3: equity clients because the contribution still kept coming in saying

820
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 3: I want to do a new deal, I want to

821
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 3: do an add on. Here's some management fees and expenses

822
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: you need to fund. But the cash back froze. Now

823
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: we're starting to come out of that now, but that

824
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: math is still nowhere near where it needs to be.

825
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: I e.

826
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: The private equity industry needs to return a lot more

827
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 3: cash back to its investors. The capital markets need to

828
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: open because some of the largest private equity funds you

829
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 3: have out there need to list some of those businesses,

830
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 3: and we haven't seen the IPO window open the US

831
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: or Europe in the last year in a meaningful and

832
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 3: sustainable way. We need all of that math to write

833
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 3: in itself before institutional investors kind of come back to

834
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: their normal levels of allocating to private equity. Where institutions

835
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: have pulled back, private wealth has stepped in. We had

836
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 3: that discussion, but the institutional investor has pulled back. The

837
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 3: average pension plan, the average endownment, the average foundation, the

838
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 3: average insurance company, if they used to do one hundred

839
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 3: dollars per fund investment last time around, this go around,

840
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 3: there are seventy five to eighty percent of that only,

841
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: So for them to come back to the one hundred dollars,

842
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: we need the private equity industry to sell companies and

843
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 3: return cash back to them. It's getting better twenty f better.

844
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: Amberinet volumes that twenty twenty three was, but is it

845
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: back to what it was in twenty one. No, sir,

846
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: we're not back there yet. You know.

847
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of what happened in the

848
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: automobile market during the pandemic. When you're not making a

849
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: lot of new cars, it means a few years later

850
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: there are not a lot of used cars for sale.

851
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: Sounds like it's the same situation where you have a

852
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two slow down twenty twenty five, where the

853
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: exits am I oversimplifying that.

854
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: I picked a really interesting and analogy, and I like

855
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: it because that is what is happening. And now we're

856
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: at the point where a lot of companies that were

857
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 3: bought in the twenty twenty one era need to be sold.

858
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 3: And some of our clients have been prolific at returning

859
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: that capital back. In fact, I've done a great job

860
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four of exiting those businesses and returning

861
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 3: cash back to investors. Others not so much. Others need

862
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 3: to pick up the speed on that. And as an industry,

863
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 3: if you look at the entirety of the industry, let

864
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: me give you some numbers. The average returns that investors

865
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: get cash back that they used to distributions as a

866
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: percentage of the total value held in private equities generally

867
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 3: around twenty four percent. In twenty three, that number dip

868
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: to only eleven percent. So far in twenty four we're

869
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: back to about fourteen percent, but we're not back to

870
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: twenty four.

871
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: So when we're not talking about returns, we're talking about.

872
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 3: Exit activity as a percentage of the net asset value.

873
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: So fourteen percent exit as opposed to almost a quarter

874
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: a big difference.

875
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 3: Yes, historical average of twenty four percent. The institutional investor

876
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 3: does not like that math. They like to have their

877
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 3: cash back come back to normal levels because that's the

878
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: cash back that then recycle into new investment.

879
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: They see other opportunities. So I asked you the negative question,

880
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: what are the challenges? Let me flip it. What are

881
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: the tailwinds? What are some of the positive things you

882
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 2: see coming forward for the private markets.

883
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: I think that as you see the increase in regulation

884
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: around public market listings, more and more companies around the world, US,

885
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: in Europe and beyond want to remain private because they

886
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: see the benefits of being under private equity ownership, the

887
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: value add the access to resources, the ability to have

888
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 3: capital at hand, to grow faster is a very valuable playbook.

889
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: So I expect that the private equity industry will continue

890
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 3: to grow at the very rapid expansion rate that they've enjoyed.

891
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: The other point I'll say is that this is a

892
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: really interesting return driving environment for private equity. Valuations in

893
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 3: the private markets remain very sensible, and there's a great

894
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 3: arbitrage between US and Europe. The Europe divergence, as they're

895
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 3: calling it these days, is real. So when it comes

896
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 3: to saying, hey, I'm going to globalize my company's revenue chain,

897
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 3: how do you do that? That's an interesting playbook, especially

898
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 3: in the political environment we're in, and private equity is

899
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: very well positioned to figure that out. The third thing

900
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: we've already touched on, which is private wealth is a

901
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 3: game change for private markets. Is a game change in

902
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 3: terms of the capital inflows that's coming in, and we're

903
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 3: still at the early innings of that. It would change

904
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 3: private equity for good, and I think it's very exciting

905
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: to see that gather pace and to be at the

906
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 3: forefront of that at Raymond James, which is one of

907
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 3: the largest wire platforms global private wealth platforms in the world.

908
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about your time at

909
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 2: Raymond James. First, you stand up your own firm see bowl,

910
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: and now you're at a fortune five hundred bank and

911
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: advisory firm. That's got to be a culture shock. Tell

912
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: us a little bit about what that transition was like.

913
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 3: On paper, it is a culture shock, but during diligence,

914
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: Raymond James approached me within within offer to acquire the business,

915
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: and we spend months getting to know each other to

916
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 3: ensure that the culture fit would work. Because if that

917
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 3: didn't work, the key ASCID you were buying, which is

918
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 3: talent and financial services, was going to walk. And so

919
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: my boss, now who is the person who acquired Sabiel Jimbo,

920
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 3: and I spent a lot of time getting to know

921
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 3: each other and ensuring that him and I could work

922
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: together well and effectively, and that the cultural alignment and

923
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 3: entrepreneurial DNA would stay intact when they acquired the firm.

924
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 3: Now I've been part of Raymond James three and a

925
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: half years. I can safely say that the honeymoon's over,

926
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: but also say that the culture fit has been a

927
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 3: real hit. Raymond James has a very affable community oriented

928
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 3: a very low ego type of culture as in general,

929
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 3: and I've found the same thing in the capital markets

930
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 3: business and it's been actually one of my upside surprises

931
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 3: of joining Raymond James on the culture side. You wouldn't

932
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: know it if you looked at the paper announcement that

933
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: a Fortune three hundred was buying a small boutique and you.

934
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 2: Go from small boutique to a trillion dollar platform. How

935
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: has that changed how you operate, not just globally, but

936
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: the sort of companies you advise, the sort of funds

937
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: that you're working with. What has been the upside for

938
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: you being on this billion plus dollar platform.

939
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 3: There'd be two things that point to The first is,

940
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 3: almost overnight, the largest private equity funds in the world

941
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: started hiring us, same team, same people, same services. All

942
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 3: that change was the logo of the boutique got replaced

943
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 3: with the logo of a Fortune three.

944
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: Hundred plus Fortune three hundred is a giant. You know

945
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: that there's thousands and thousands of banks and funds, only

946
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 2: a couple hundred companies attain that haft size. And no,

947
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 2: it's not just the boutique, it's everything around it. You

948
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: can tap into a giant network of experts.

949
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: And one of my clients said, listen, no one gets

950
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 3: fired for hiring a fortune three hundred. Now you are

951
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 3: part of one, and it changed our game overnight. Overnight

952
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 3: we started assigning ten twenty thirty billion dollar funds and

953
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 3: that was incredibly exciting. So do what we love to do,

954
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 3: but to do it for some of the biggest players

955
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 3: in the markets is very exciting. The second one is

956
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: that we were able to figure out and a veil

957
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: of and offer the synergy with our private wealth partners

958
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: at Raymond James very quickly, and for that, I'll always

959
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 3: be thankful to the leadership of the firm because they

960
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 3: saw the opportunity and they made that happen, and that's

961
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: been a huge value add to our clients.

962
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: I can I can imagine, all right, So I only

963
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: have you for a handful of minutes left Before I

964
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: get to my favorite questions that I ask all my guests,

965
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 2: I have a couple of curve balls I have to

966
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: throw you, starting with you're a certified somalier from the

967
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: Court of Master Somaliers. Tell us a little bit about

968
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: your enthusiasm for wine and what led you into that.

969
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: So I started teaching a wine class at Stanford for

970
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 3: one yearit of credit. In my junior year, I was

971
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 3: part of living in the French House there where I

972
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:51,959
Speaker 3: was member of the staff, and I had to teach

973
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: a class that had something to do with France. I said,

974
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 3: France and wine.

975
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 2: That makes sense even though you were less than an

976
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: hour from Napa Valley.

977
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 3: And guess who my teachers were. I would get guest

978
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 3: speakers and wine makers from Napa and Sonoma to come

979
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 3: and my pitch to them was, hey, you get to teach,

980
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 3: You get to talk to and teach wine to an

981
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: impressionable young audience that can go on and become loyal customers.

982
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 3: That they loved it. They would come down and do

983
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 3: a talk on wine, and we do a small wine tas, maybe.

984
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: Bring some a couple of bottles shirted.

985
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: It was voted Stanford's most popular class. It would often

986
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 3: shut down the Stanford systems during sign up day, and

987
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: even after I graduated from Stanford, I kept teaching that

988
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: wine class for close to three years. After graduation. When

989
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 3: I went to Harvard for my MBA Harvard College, one

990
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: of the houses their residential houses there, asked me to

991
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: come teach a wine seminar for them. Which I did,

992
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 3: which was again a roaring success. And then I moved

993
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 3: to London. And when I moved to London, I said, well,

994
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: I'm not teaching anything here. I guess I'm going to

995
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: lose all this wine knowledge. Let me put it to

996
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 3: the test. And I decided to take the Court of

997
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 3: Masters Sommelier's test. It was a three day test. I

998
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: don't think I've crammed that hard for anything in my life.

999
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: It was I had a blind tasting of ten wines.

1000
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 3: It had a service test, had theory papers. It was

1001
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 3: incredibly intense, but lo and behold, I ended up passing,

1002
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 3: and here we are. It's a lifetime qualification. I still

1003
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 3: have it with pride and honor, although I don't use

1004
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 3: it as much anymore now being a mom of three.

1005
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: So I was going to ask your London base. It's

1006
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: a short train ride to France, to Germany to Italy.

1007
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: There are some great wines in that area. How often

1008
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: do you get to go to local wineries and sample

1009
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: the wares.

1010
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 3: I love tasting wine, and so I have joined a

1011
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 3: wine club in London, which I love. I used to

1012
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 3: take part in blind wine tasting competitions less so now

1013
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: so any opportunity I can to enjoy and experiment and

1014
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 3: try new wines. I do so, you absolutely right. Europe

1015
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 3: is a bastion of wine making, and so if I

1016
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 3: go to board meetings in Germany, or if I head

1017
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 3: off for a weekend in Spain, it's all about diving

1018
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 3: deep into the local wine. I recently went for dinner

1019
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: with about ten twelve friends to a lovely restaurant in

1020
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 3: near Barcelona and Spain, and there was a wine tasting

1021
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 3: core of repairing there for all Spanish wines, and we

1022
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: did that together and learn more about Spanish wines than

1023
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: we ever thought we would know. That's the kind of

1024
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 3: thing that I do now as a passionate hobby.

1025
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: Huh. Really really interesting? All right, So all have you

1026
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 2: for a few more minutes. Let's jump to our favorite questions.

1027
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: Tell us what's keeping you entertained these days? What are

1028
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: you either watching or listening to? What are you streaming.

1029
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 3: Watching? I have to say I tend to watch in

1030
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: limited doses these days, given life and travel and children.

1031
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 3: But I love The Diplomat on Netflix. Fascinating again geopolitics.

1032
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 3: I'm absolutely interested in the new spy thriller that Paramount

1033
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 3: has out called The Agency. I've watched a couple of episodes.

1034
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 3: It's trending well so far. I love listening to a

1035
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 3: number of podcasts. My go to list will be Andrew

1036
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 3: Humeman Love. He's a Stanford professor wright the healthcare Yes,

1037
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 3: he loves that. He talks about health wellness protocols. Super fascinating.

1038
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: I try to dive into his stuff as much as

1039
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 3: I possibly can. They're long, though, so sometimes it takes

1040
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 3: a few iterations. I'll often listen to the news via podcasts,

1041
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 3: whether it's Bloomberg, CNBC. That's often part of my regular rota,

1042
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: and more than any of the others. I am a

1043
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 3: huge believer in preventative mental health. I meditate every day,

1044
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: go to an annual meditation course, so I'm often listening

1045
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: to talks around meditation, around mental health. How do you

1046
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: deepen your meditation practice. That's a huge part of my

1047
00:55:59,040 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: repository as well.

1048
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 2: And while we're on streaming entertainment, if you like the

1049
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: Diplomat and The Agency, let me suggest the Lioness oh

1050
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: on Parami about intelligence agencies and how they infiltrate terrorist groups.

1051
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: Really fascinating, very cool. I just finished the first season

1052
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 2: and I'm looking you need a break because it's like

1053
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: very tense and wow, we're about to start the second

1054
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: So tell us about your mentors who helped shape your career.

1055
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 3: I am lucky enough to have been picked up by

1056
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,959
Speaker 3: a wonderful professor Stanford called Professor Tom Cosnick. Tom took

1057
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 3: me on at the tenor age of nineteen or twenty,

1058
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: and he took me under his wing, made me a

1059
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: research fellow. He's the one that enabled me to guest

1060
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 3: lecture at Stanford. I wrote case studies that are still

1061
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: used in the teaching curriculum there under him, and he's

1062
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 3: been a tremendous mentor and supporter very early on and forever.

1063
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 3: Thing to him for his coaching and mentorship over the years. Similarly,

1064
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 3: is a wonderful professor at Standford called Professor Tina Selig.

1065
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 3: She gave me one of the best piece of advice

1066
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 3: I think any young career professional, but certainly a woman,

1067
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 3: could have received. She said to me, you can have

1068
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: it all, just not at once. And that has stuck

1069
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 3: with me forever since. And it's been true in many

1070
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 3: walks of life, as I've had my children, as I've

1071
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 3: grown my businesses, as I do what I do on

1072
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: a daily basis. So those are the two that stand

1073
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 3: out both at Stanford. Both influential in the way they

1074
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 3: mentored me, but also what they imparted in me.

1075
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: Really interesting. Let's talk about books. What are some of

1076
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: your favorites and what are you reading right now?

1077
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: I love the book The Big Leap by Gray Hendrix.

1078
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 3: Everyone should pick it up. It's a quick read. It

1079
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 3: talks about upper limits, how we set upper limits unconsciously

1080
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: in our lives. He starts off with this great research

1081
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 3: about how most lottery winners after five years, most of

1082
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 3: them end up being broke, really unhappy.

1083
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: Broke, divorce, suicide. It's terrible.

1084
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 3: It's terrible. Why we've just been coming to all these riches.

1085
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 3: The mind has a reset point that brings you down

1086
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: into what you're used to feeling and the kind of

1087
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 3: mental space you're used to inhabiting. How do you break

1088
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: out of that and increase your upper limits so you

1089
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 3: can continue to scale in your life and in your career,

1090
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 3: in your personal life and so on. Fascinating quick read.

1091
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: Big Leap by Gay Hendrix Highly recommended. I'm reading a

1092
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 3: book right now. I'm only about thirty pages into it.

1093
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 3: Called the Mind Matters. Back to my thematic about mental

1094
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 3: and understanding how the mind works and mental health. Mind

1095
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 3: Matters is by a professor who talks about how the

1096
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,439
Speaker 3: mind can often visualize things into reality. So you hear

1097
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 3: this phrase called manifestation a lot. This is a neuroscientist

1098
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 3: studying what that means in terms of how the brain

1099
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 3: fires to try to make things into reality for us.

1100
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 3: Fascinating thirty five pages or so. So far so early innings,

1101
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: but it's gone.

1102
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: Well, really interesting. And our final two questions, what sort

1103
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: of advice would you give to a recent college grad

1104
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 2: interested in a career in private markets or finance.

1105
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 3: My number one piece of advice to anybody entering finance

1106
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 3: is play the long game. Too many young people, I'm

1107
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 3: sure that you come across, Berry, that I come across,

1108
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 3: are all about the short term hits and the short

1109
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 3: term wins. If it doesn't work out, they move on

1110
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: and they try to make it work somewhere else, and

1111
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 3: they move on again. A rolling stone gathers no moss,

1112
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: and especially in finance, it's a world that ends up

1113
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 3: being one, maybe two degrees of separation. It's a world

1114
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 3: in which relationships still really, really matter, and you have

1115
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: to cultivate them. Thinking about a ten to twenty year

1116
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 3: career in mind, not what can this person do for

1117
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 3: me today, or this week, or this month or immediately.

1118
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 3: And that is I think one of the most profound

1119
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 3: pieces of advice I leaned into early in my career.

1120
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 3: Looking at every human being as a long term investment

1121
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 3: of time and energy, not looking for quick paybacks, same

1122
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 3: with investment investing in private equity, but certainly true when

1123
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 3: it comes to people.

1124
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: Really interesting and our final question, what do you know

1125
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 2: about the world of private equity today? You wish you

1126
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: knew twenty plus years ago when you were first starting out.

1127
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 3: What I know now that I wish I knew back

1128
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: then is that the market will change and adapt even

1129
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 3: faster and more furiously than you ever thought possible. Did

1130
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 3: we see the trillions of dollars in the private equity

1131
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 3: primary market?

1132
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: No?

1133
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 3: Did I see the secondary's market growing to one hundred

1134
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 3: and fifty billion on its way to a trillion dollars itself, No,

1135
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 3: So the growth will far outpace your wildest dreams, both

1136
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: in your own industry but also in the finance world

1137
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: around you. Think about twenty years ago, had you and

1138
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 3: I ever envisioned the mag seven and the trends we're

1139
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 3: seeing in technology and how markets would be at the

1140
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 3: levels they are today, not even in our wildest dreams.

1141
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 3: So as I think about the next twenty years, I

1142
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 3: keep that in.

1143
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: Mind really really interesting. Thank you, Sanana for being so

1144
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: generous with your time we have been speaking with. Sanna

1145
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: Sinhachi is the global head of the Private Capital Advisory

1146
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 2: Group for Raymond James. If you enjoy this conversation, well,

1147
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 2: be sure and check out any of the previous five

1148
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 2: hundred and forty we've done over the past ten and

1149
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: a half years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify,

1150
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 2: Bloomberg YouTube, wherever you find your favorite podcasts. And be

1151
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 2: sure and check out my new podcast At the Money,

1152
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 2: short ten minute conversations with experts about topics affecting your money,

1153
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 2: earning it, spending it, and most importantly, investing it At

1154
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 2: the Money, in the Masters in Business, feed or wherever

1155
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: you find your favorite podcasts. I would be remiss if

1156
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: I did not thank the Cracked team who helps us

1157
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 2: put these conversations together each week. John Wasserman is my

1158
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: audio engineer. Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is

1159
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 2: my researcher. Sage Bauman is the head of podcasts here

1160
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Ritolts. You've been listening to Masters

1161
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: in Business on Bloomberg Radio.