Speaker 1: There's a young boy who want to do what it
Speaker 1: was cut up from our surgery prosthetic picts burgery telling
Speaker 1: me I'm normal, but normal. They never really made me
Speaker 1: see they are always painting discriminated. But that seems like
Speaker 1: such a tremendously obvious thing to do, doesn't it. Disability
Speaker 1: sport presented by the people with disabilities. Only no one
Speaker 1: in the world had ever done anything like that before.
Speaker 1: It was revolutionary. I was looking at these kids and
Speaker 1: they were in awe. They were like, We've never seen
Speaker 1: this before. We don't have a disabled actress who was
Speaker 1: an Oscar winner and who's on the cover of Vote.
Speaker 1: I quickly found like, when we have clients who go
Speaker 1: to jobs that are completely unrelated to disability, they would
Speaker 1: consistently be asked to speak about their disabled experience. This
Speaker 1: industry that I'm in, the entertainment industry is wonderful in
Speaker 1: many ways and can achieve great things, but as also
Speaker 1: responsible for so much and the world and so many
Speaker 1: dangerous narratives, and it's responsible for so much A Raser. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Throughout the interviews for this series, one issue comes up
Speaker 1: time and time again. Representation. The general consensus appears to
Speaker 1: be that in all parts of society, disabled people are
Speaker 1: represented inaccurately, offensively, or worst of all, they are ignored.
Speaker 1: In this episode, we're asking why representation matters and how
Speaker 1: we can achieve more accurate it and greater representation moving forward.
Speaker 1: I'm Sophie Morgan and this is equal to episode three.
Speaker 1: Accurate representation matters. How many the team behind this podcast
Speaker 1: are exceptional and I use that word deliberately. They are
Speaker 1: the exception to the rule because when they made the
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary Rising Phoenix about the Paralympic Games, they insisted
Speaker 1: on using disabled talent both on and off screen. From
Speaker 1: day one, disabled people were put at the heart of
Speaker 1: the filmmaking process, Paralympians like us as Tatiana McFadden, who
Speaker 1: we heard from in the last episode, was one of
Speaker 1: Rising Phoenix's producers. The researchers were disabled as well. Even
Speaker 1: the film's title track is a collaboration between composer Daniel
Speaker 1: Pemberton and Crip Hop Nation, a movement of disabled hip
Speaker 1: hop artists and musicians. Because due to the proactive approach
Speaker 1: taken over six of the Rising Phoenix working days were
Speaker 1: fulfilled by people with a disability, and in this podcast production.
Speaker 1: Over sixty of the people involved identify as disabled. Both
Speaker 1: projects were designed by disabled people for disabled people. Don't
Speaker 1: fit into your perception, how dare you define me? I'm
Speaker 1: beyond what you see as perfect. Rising Phoenix made its
Speaker 1: stars into icons going into the film. Ellie Cole, an
Speaker 1: Australian Paris swimmer and wheelchair basketballer, had already won fifteen
Speaker 1: Paralympic medals about some Australia, and received the Order of
Speaker 1: Australia and been named Cosmopolitans two thousand and fifteen Sportswomen
Speaker 1: of the Year, but the film took her fame to
Speaker 1: a whole new audience. I didn't really couldn't really comprehend
Speaker 1: just had big Rising Phoenix was going to be until
Speaker 1: probably the day it dropped on Netflix and I started
Speaker 1: getting hundreds upon hundreds of messages from people all over
Speaker 1: the world, including one David Beckham, which just blew my mind.
Speaker 1: But for me, I'm just very proud, like I said before,
Speaker 1: to be in a documentary that actively promoted the Paralympic movement.
Speaker 1: I think the main basis of messages that I was
Speaker 1: getting was we didn't really understand the struggles that Paralympians
Speaker 1: go through. You know, we can't believe that there are
Speaker 1: so many financial struggles just for the Paralympic Games to
Speaker 1: be hosted. You know, this needs to ends. And so
Speaker 1: I think it was almost like a movement of people
Speaker 1: just crying out for a quality UM and I have
Speaker 1: seen a significant change in that over the last twelve months.
Speaker 1: Part of that change was the growing visibility of disabled
Speaker 1: people in the media beyond the Games. In fact, Ellie
Speaker 1: broke the glass ceiling when she appeared on the cover
Speaker 1: of Australia's Women's Health magazine. I remember from me, you know,
Speaker 1: picking up my Women's Health magazine and seeing my self
Speaker 1: on a cover. I just had this like moment where
Speaker 1: I reflected on my entire life and how I'd almost
Speaker 1: always been put in a bit of a corner. Um.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I was invisible, and then for me
Speaker 1: to be able to hold this magazine and see that
Speaker 1: like people with disabilities are all of a sudden everywhere,
Speaker 1: Paralympic athletes are all of a sudden everywhere. You know,
Speaker 1: people are so proud to UM own us is one
Speaker 1: of their own. Like I know Australia is very proud
Speaker 1: of their Paralympic athletes. One of our major supermarketing chains
Speaker 1: is promoting the Olympic and Pilampic Games this month, and
Speaker 1: they have quite a few cardboard cutouts of the athletes
Speaker 1: all across their store. And four weeks ago, there was
Speaker 1: this little girl, she would have been about six years old.
Speaker 1: Um she also had one leg, and she was standing
Speaker 1: next to my um my supermarket poster and I remember
Speaker 1: seeing it and maybe tear up because I had never
Speaker 1: had that as a child. And apparently this young girl
Speaker 1: like saw my clad out so that I had one leg,
Speaker 1: and she just screamed out, like, mom, there's a girl
Speaker 1: that looks exactly like I do. These examples prove the
Speaker 1: power of representation, that even the smallest amount of visibility
Speaker 1: and recognition can have a huge impact on individual people
Speaker 1: and the world. But right now, there is very little
Speaker 1: representation of disabled people in the media, let alone in
Speaker 1: Hollywood itself. But there is someone who has managed to
Speaker 1: break through. Hello. My name is Jamia Dmill and I
Speaker 1: am an actor, a writer, a host, and an advocate.
Speaker 1: So lovely to see my favorite thing joining Jamila and
Speaker 1: me in this conversation is Shenaid Burke said, is a
Speaker 1: leading disability advocate who through education, advocacy, and design is
Speaker 1: changing the fashion industry. And there's also an exact could
Speaker 1: producer on this podcast. So I've read that you say
Speaker 1: that you're an advocate first and all of those other
Speaker 1: things after. Yes, why is that? Why do you say that? Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's by nature. I think I'm probably recognized
Speaker 1: still first and foremost as an actor, but I it's
Speaker 1: what It's my driving force in life, and it has
Speaker 1: been since I was nineteen, and it's really the only
Speaker 1: way that I can carry on in this industry because
Speaker 1: this industry that I'm in, the entertainment industry, is wonderful
Speaker 1: in many ways and can achieve great things truly on
Speaker 1: like a humane societal level, but it's also responsible for
Speaker 1: putting so much into the world and so many dangerous narratives,
Speaker 1: and it's it's responsible for so much erasure um people
Speaker 1: with disabilities still treated as a mistake and anomaly that
Speaker 1: we should just ignore and pretend aren't there and then
Speaker 1: maybe they'll go away. And I think that it's been
Speaker 1: really interesting to straddle this industry with as being a
Speaker 1: public figure as well as having an invisible disability myself
Speaker 1: so I kind of straddle both of those worlds and
Speaker 1: recognize how often I try and bring it up, and
Speaker 1: how often no one wants to hear it from me.
Speaker 1: They just want me to look nice on the cover
Speaker 1: of the magazine. And it really hurts my feelings because
Speaker 1: I grew up with much more visible disabilities and I
Speaker 1: was in crutches, on ZIMP frames, are in a wheelchairs,
Speaker 1: and and I remember just how lost and lonely I felt,
Speaker 1: and how I felt like I could never be loved
Speaker 1: or I could never be accepted, or I could never
Speaker 1: go out and have fun because I would never was
Speaker 1: never able to see that reflected back at me, you know,
Speaker 1: from any form of media, not in any magazines and
Speaker 1: in the movies, they portray people with disabilities always as
Speaker 1: a sub story. There is a story arc for the
Speaker 1: non disabled person, and they are the tragedy that's weighing
Speaker 1: down the non disabled person. They're never just out getting
Speaker 1: piste and having a laugh, you know, They're never ever
Speaker 1: having an awkward sex scene that rarely able to be
Speaker 1: in comedy. It's just so because I remember how painful
Speaker 1: that erasial was. I think it's why I fight for
Speaker 1: so many different types of representation, not just disability representation,
Speaker 1: but I feel as though it is the one that
Speaker 1: is the greatest emergency of us needing to address. So
Speaker 1: what would better representation look like? Well, currently the UN
Speaker 1: estimates that around one billion people worldwide live with a disability.
Speaker 1: That's about fifteen percent of us. But do we see
Speaker 1: that fifteen percent reflected on our screens? And I just
Speaker 1: don't know how many more examples we need of finally
Speaker 1: accepting or like representing a minority and registering how it's
Speaker 1: not only good for society at large, it's also great
Speaker 1: for profit. You know, the Purple Pound does exist, and
Speaker 1: there is money to be spent. People do want to
Speaker 1: see representation and Black Panther, Crazy, Rich Asians, Bridesmaids, Shrill,
Speaker 1: all these different shows that finally finally paid homage to
Speaker 1: these different groups who exist in the world everywhere, how
Speaker 1: well they did, and how it only made the world
Speaker 1: a better place to have that increased diversity. And so
Speaker 1: it is it is up to magazines and media figures
Speaker 1: to represent and show up. But do we see that
Speaker 1: fifteen percent reflected on our screens? Janaid Burke, who we
Speaker 1: heard earlier advocates for the fashion industry to be more
Speaker 1: inclusive of disabled people. In her TED talk, she spoke
Speaker 1: about why design should include everyone and is now director
Speaker 1: of the design organization Tilting the Lens, which works to
Speaker 1: raise the baseline standards of accessibility in design. Her best
Speaker 1: selling book, Break the Mold asks what it means to
Speaker 1: be different in a world where you feel that you
Speaker 1: don't belong. The research is really clear when we talk
Speaker 1: to this about representation, because you know, all speaking characters
Speaker 1: across the top movies of Titsan nineteen, only two point
Speaker 1: three had a disability and of the top TV network shows,
Speaker 1: only twelve of disabled characters who are within a minority
Speaker 1: already or played by disabled actors. I mean when you
Speaker 1: look at statistics like that, reflecting also on the success
Speaker 1: of Crypt Camp, Rising Phoenix, Coda, Sound of Metal, some
Speaker 1: of which we have questions about how do we change
Speaker 1: this or is the change already happening and we just
Speaker 1: need to be patient for it to become more accelerated.
Speaker 1: Perhaps change is happening, just like Rising Phoenix, Crypt Camp
Speaker 1: mentioned thereby, said Broke the Mold. The film even had
Speaker 1: a co director with a disability USA is Jim labret
Speaker 1: I was born with spider bifida. I've had a career
Speaker 1: in audio for over forty years, as first in theater
Speaker 1: and then in doing sound mixing, predominantly for documentaries in
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay area. But Jim's journey to success
Speaker 1: has not been straightforward. Here he tells ed about the
Speaker 1: challenges he's faced in the film industry. I found myself
Speaker 1: being really the only person that I knew with a
Speaker 1: disability working in post production audio. Unfortunately, I mean fortunately,
Speaker 1: although I can't walk. I I grew up in a
Speaker 1: split level house just North New York City, and my
Speaker 1: bes on the top floor. So yeah, uh, and so
Speaker 1: I was really good at climbing stairs. And you know,
Speaker 1: when you're working in theater as a sound person, you
Speaker 1: have to be able to listen from different areas in
Speaker 1: the theater. So I was able to park my chair
Speaker 1: and climb out and listen from different locations. UM and
Speaker 1: that gave me UM an incredible turning ground in regards
Speaker 1: to the aesthetics of sound. UM and I then wound
Speaker 1: up working for at an incredible facility in Berkeley, the
Speaker 1: Salience Film Center. So all produced the English patient and
Speaker 1: unbearable likeness of being and there was a great facility
Speaker 1: there and the Wheelshire access was very good. Um so
Speaker 1: I was able to work my way up there then
Speaker 1: started my own business. Quip Camp explores Jim's childhood at
Speaker 1: a summer camp and how a group of friends became
Speaker 1: history making disability activists. The world always wants us to
Speaker 1: We live with that reality at the time. So many
Speaker 1: kids just like me, We're being sent to institute as
Speaker 1: it was just a continual struggle. Disabled people like myself
Speaker 1: are unable to use public transportations. We needed a civil
Speaker 1: rights law of our own. Co directed with Nicole Newham
Speaker 1: and with Barack and Michelle Obama as executive producers, the
Speaker 1: film was nominated for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards.
Speaker 1: Members of the Academy's Documentary Branch have chosen these nominees
Speaker 1: for Best Documentary Feature, and they are Cript Camp. I
Speaker 1: don't like to kind of say, oh my gosh, you know,
Speaker 1: we broke down the walls and everything, but cript Camp
Speaker 1: was really well regarded and what it showed Hollywood was
Speaker 1: that there are authentic stories coming from the disabled community
Speaker 1: that people don't know about, and that very rich stories,
Speaker 1: and that also people with disabilities can make OSCAR nominated films,
Speaker 1: and I think that it and it's also good business,
Speaker 1: so as we've seen with other communities that are marginalized,
Speaker 1: once we are able to be the people that are
Speaker 1: producers and directors and editors and writers, that we know
Speaker 1: where these stories are and they're unique and they're they're fresh,
Speaker 1: and they're new, and they're incredibly compelling that people want
Speaker 1: to see them. So I think that I've heard of
Speaker 1: kind of a crypt camp effect that I think helped
Speaker 1: open the door much wider than it had been just
Speaker 1: cracked before. Jim spoke about wanting to see disability represented
Speaker 1: more widely in the film industry, with disabled actors cost
Speaker 1: in every kind of role. The world that I want
Speaker 1: to live in is one of which there is a
Speaker 1: performer who has a disability playing a role that wasn't
Speaker 1: written specifically for someone with that disability. My kind of
Speaker 1: joke about this is that I live for the day
Speaker 1: when I see a one armed barrista in the background
Speaker 1: of drama and that they are there because we are
Speaker 1: part of the fabric of society. Keeley cat Wells is
Speaker 1: from the UK and based in l A. She is
Speaker 1: the founder of c Talent, an agency that represents disabled artists, athletes,
Speaker 1: and influences. She tells us about some of the barriers
Speaker 1: that still persist in the industry. I quickly found like,
Speaker 1: when we have clients who go to jobs that are
Speaker 1: completely unrelated to disability, they would consistently be asked to
Speaker 1: speak about their disabled experience, and it was almost like
Speaker 1: people when they spoke to them, not disabled people, would
Speaker 1: find the most interesting thing about them be disability. And
Speaker 1: whilst obviously it's incredibly important that we have those experts
Speaker 1: in disability, and we do some disability consulting as well,
Speaker 1: and we represent some disability subject matter experts, and that's
Speaker 1: incredibly important, but there is also a difference between those
Speaker 1: subject matter experts and also people who are experts in
Speaker 1: acting in cinematography, and we mustn't confuse the two. I
Speaker 1: think it gets exhausting for disabled people to consistently be
Speaker 1: educating others on their lived experience or their access requirements.
Speaker 1: So I think as soon as we can get these
Speaker 1: some of these experts in subjects beyond disability, then we
Speaker 1: can both normalize the disabled experience and then break down
Speaker 1: those barriers in in the employment process and beyond. Everyone
Speaker 1: is definitely open to having more conversations, but what I
Speaker 1: would like to see is more action taken from those conversations.
Speaker 1: Definitely seeing more and more organizations popping up that are
Speaker 1: doing the work, which is amazing. But I still think
Speaker 1: we have this massive issue of pipeline and behind the
Speaker 1: camera representation, even though I think we're slowly slowly getting
Speaker 1: there with in front of the camera representation, but I
Speaker 1: would absolutely love to see this, you know, inequitable systems changed,
Speaker 1: and I would like to turn those doubts that people
Speaker 1: have into questions. I still think people are very afraid
Speaker 1: to ask and to touch on disability just because they're
Speaker 1: not familiar with it, and it's um they're just scared.
Speaker 1: I think. So as soon as we can kind of
Speaker 1: take that fear away, then I think we can move
Speaker 1: move forward much quicker. But we're getting there slowly but surely.
Speaker 1: Organizations like Keeley's are changing the conversation around disability. But
Speaker 1: there are still long held and deeply entrenched stereotypes to confront,
Speaker 1: and we don't need to look back far to find them. Historically,
Speaker 1: if we look at if we look back to you know,
Speaker 1: Captain Hook and the Hunchback of Notre Dame and the
Speaker 1: media's perception of disabled people. It's been a villains or
Speaker 1: of pity, and I think to bring that back to
Speaker 1: society and be like, no, that's not what disability is.
Speaker 1: This is what disability is, will be monumental to shift
Speaker 1: perceptions in an inclusion. From books to films, TV and theater,
Speaker 1: negative portrayals of disability are tightly woven throughout our culture.
Speaker 1: Even some of our most iconic characters are made villainous
Speaker 1: by their physical or psychological impairments, whether it's Star Wars
Speaker 1: as Quadruple and Pute, Darth Vader, Shakespeare's poisonous Hunchback, Richard
Speaker 1: the Third, or the wheelchair user doctor Strange Love. As
Speaker 1: keenly mentioned, sometimes the representation of disabled people does more
Speaker 1: harm than good. The late great comedian and journalist Stella Young,
Speaker 1: who happens to be a wheelchair user, in her claimed
Speaker 1: ted talk, describes those images you so often see of
Speaker 1: disabled people. This is what she says, and in the
Speaker 1: par as few years, we've been able to propagate this
Speaker 1: lie even further via social media. You know you may
Speaker 1: have seen images like this one. The only disability in
Speaker 1: life is a bad attitude mm hmm, or this one
Speaker 1: your excuse is invalid indeed, or this one before you
Speaker 1: quit try. Yeah, you know, you might have seen the
Speaker 1: one the little girl with no hands drawing a picture
Speaker 1: with a pencil held in her mouth. You might have
Speaker 1: seen a child running on carbon fiber prosthetic legs. And
Speaker 1: these images, there are lots of them out there. They
Speaker 1: are what we call inspiration pawn and I use the
Speaker 1: term pawn deliberately because they objectify one group of people
Speaker 1: for the benefit of another group of people. So in
Speaker 1: this case, we're objectifying disabled people for the benefit of
Speaker 1: non disabled people. The purpose of these images is to
Speaker 1: inspire you, to motivate you, so that we can look
Speaker 1: at them and think, well, however bad my life is,
Speaker 1: it could be worse. I could be that person. Some
Speaker 1: ads are created to make the viewer cry, and Christina Malon,
Speaker 1: head of Inclusive Design at Wonderman Thompson, says, it's a
Speaker 1: real problem and to get that emotional gut reaction to
Speaker 1: keep your eyes on screen. But these ads do nothing
Speaker 1: for the disabled community. They actually hurt the disabled community.
Speaker 1: So when we think about inspiration, we should think about
Speaker 1: people inspiring to act, not inspiring to cry an inspiration
Speaker 1: porn inspires people to cry and pity the community, and
Speaker 1: when that is one of the only kind of ads
Speaker 1: that is out there about disability, then it makes disability
Speaker 1: look like a negative experience. And like in any life experience,
Speaker 1: you have positive and negative ones, and that's dis ability.
Speaker 1: But it shouldn't just be the one that people see
Speaker 1: that is inspiration born. So often we see disabled people
Speaker 1: represented in outdated tropes, the pitiful, the vulnerable, the weak,
Speaker 1: secondary character or the villain or superhuman. These tropes are
Speaker 1: harmful and if unchallenged, leave disabled people trapped. But what
Speaker 1: about no representation whatsoever. Aaron Brown is the founder of
Speaker 1: one in four, a new disability coalition creating systemic change
Speaker 1: for representation and access in Hollywood, and also a partner
Speaker 1: at Management three sixty, one of Hollywood's biggest talent agencies.
Speaker 1: She told us about the personal cost of feeling unseen,
Speaker 1: woralthfully under represented, and, UM, I guess I've always been
Speaker 1: subconsciously aware of that, but my real awakening to that
Speaker 1: has been in the past couple of years about how
Speaker 1: how missing it is um on screen. Um, something you
Speaker 1: internalize the disabled person is that you don't deserve to
Speaker 1: be portrayed on screen and my awakening is and how
Speaker 1: misguided that is. Aaron's story reveals just how much representation matters,
Speaker 1: and it can be especially powerful for children growing up
Speaker 1: with a disability seeing themselves on TV or in the media.
Speaker 1: This is r J. Mitty, one of the stars of
Speaker 1: hit American drama Breaking Bad and mass media with disability
Speaker 1: wasn't really there. No one really talked about disabilities like
Speaker 1: I grew up talking about disabilities because my grandparents and
Speaker 1: and I having having a disability and all the people
Speaker 1: in my life from from physical to internal to to
Speaker 1: mental disabilities. Um so I always grew up around it.
Speaker 1: I never realized how to the majority of the world
Speaker 1: at the time, it was so abnormal. Um And know
Speaker 1: when when I was first started acting, I actually technically
Speaker 1: don't see myself as disabled. Um I. And even with
Speaker 1: like cerebral policy, I don't see myself categorized as having
Speaker 1: a disability, even though I I do, um that you was.
Speaker 1: I never told him. I never told him, never told him.
Speaker 1: So my my my resume, I would submit, it would
Speaker 1: just have me. I didn't put cerebral policy. I didn't
Speaker 1: and and I didn't think it was relevant. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like I it wasn't really relevant. Why why do you
Speaker 1: need to know something that really has It's not in
Speaker 1: the breakdown, it's not in this it's it's it's not relevant.
Speaker 1: And so if they were looking at me a little funny, right,
Speaker 1: and they were like, there's something like wrong with this kid,
Speaker 1: I would go, oh, by the way, I have cerebral policy. Uh,
Speaker 1: And that was just kind of nothing nothing. What do
Speaker 1: you what are you going to say? Oh, sorry, we're
Speaker 1: not going to see you now. Since Breaking Bad FINALI
Speaker 1: are J has gone on to feature in multiple films
Speaker 1: and TV shows. And you know, I think everyone has
Speaker 1: a right to audition for a role, disabled or non disabled.
Speaker 1: You roll should not discriminate on on that. It should
Speaker 1: be about the character who that character is. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not every character that should have CP, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the character can't have CP. Like it's
Speaker 1: these these nuances on just looking past the the the
Speaker 1: shell and looking in the more depth characters. But now
Speaker 1: from the camera to the catwalk, what about representation in
Speaker 1: the fashion industry, Let's go back to che book. I
Speaker 1: never saw anybody who looked like me in spaces where
Speaker 1: beauty was the underlying narrative because our bodies were not
Speaker 1: considered to be beautiful. And it was such a joy
Speaker 1: to be able to enter into some of those spaces.
Speaker 1: But in time I really began to reflect, is the
Speaker 1: system changing? Is it easier for disabled people to enter
Speaker 1: into the fashion industry based on the trajectory that I've
Speaker 1: been able to gain a build? Or did the system
Speaker 1: change for me? M And in some ways I think
Speaker 1: a bit of both, but more that it changed for me.
Speaker 1: But that's not enough, because there are so few of
Speaker 1: us who get to enter these rooms that we cannot
Speaker 1: be satisfied by our presence alone. So we cannot be
Speaker 1: satisfied by visibility alone. And we can no longer settle
Speaker 1: for inaccurate depictions of disability and must hold to account
Speaker 1: those who fall back on outdated and damaging cliches. As
Speaker 1: Judy Human, star of Crip Camp, says, it's long past
Speaker 1: time for this cultural invisibility of disabled people to end.
Speaker 1: News outlets, Hollywood, and leading social media platforms must all
Speaker 1: work towards authentic inclusion. What's clear is that only by
Speaker 1: being in the room where the decisions are made and
Speaker 1: power is broken. Can we guarantee accurate representation? So join
Speaker 1: us next time for episode four, where we will explore
Speaker 1: physical accessibility and how are inaccessible environments mean that too
Speaker 1: often disabled people's needs are not met. These podcasts have
Speaker 1: been made possible because of the support of Procter and Gamble.
Speaker 1: P and G share our ambition to create a more
Speaker 1: equal world, a world where everyone can have equal access
Speaker 1: and the opportunity to thrive. We are very grateful for
Speaker 1: their partnership in making these conversations a reality. Of people
Speaker 1: with a direct involvement in the production of the podcast,
Speaker 1: including guests identify as disabled. Hi there, I'm shrunk, feel good,
Speaker 1: I am sobral palsy, and I'm a junior producer on
Speaker 1: this podcast. For me, representation both behind the microphone and
Speaker 1: behind the scenes are crucial for more on this story
Speaker 1: and vowing as well as to join the discussion, go too,
Speaker 1: It's too Wie dot world. This podcast was created by
Speaker 1: Greg Nugent, co founder of Harder Than You Think. I'm
Speaker 1: Sophie Morgan, your host and executive producer. Fellow executive producers
Speaker 1: are Chanaid Burke, Greg Nugent, Barnaby Spurrier, Laura, i'ms, Mark
Speaker 1: Pritchard and Kimberly Dobrunner. Thank you to the I p
Speaker 1: C and Channel four for their support and use of
Speaker 1: archive material. Thanks to our podcast production partner, Stripped Media,
Speaker 1: and also to Seneca Women for their assistance with distributing
Speaker 1: this show. If you want to follow the equal to
Speaker 1: story and join the conversation hashtag equal to, go to
Speaker 1: our website ht white E dot world, where you will
Speaker 1: also find the transcript and video versions of the podcast,
Speaker 1: along with subtitles and a BSL signed version in the
Speaker 1: coming days.