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Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hello everyone. It's me Sam, famed and beloved

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Speaker 1: co host of um notable podcast Radio Lab that you're

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Speaker 1: currently listening to. I'm here with a little announcement, and

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Speaker 1: that is that I am doing a solo show called

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Speaker 1: Club Comic at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn on February sevent

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Speaker 1: at seven thirty pm. UH. Tickets are available now. This

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Speaker 1: show is beloved by me. I used to do it

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Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and um, it's like club tracks and

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Speaker 1: videos and stand up and yeah, it's upon club Comic,

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Speaker 1: get it. But it's it's always really fun. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, should I bring it back. I'm a different

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Speaker 1: person now that the global pandemic and everything. But then

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, no, I didn't change it all.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually the exact same person. Um, so I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: it back at to the Bellhouse February seventeen, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be more excited. So get tickets. I look forward

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Speaker 1: to seeing your gorgeous but tastefully flawed faces and I okay,

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Speaker 1: enjoy the episode by bye. Podcast starts now. Wow, Hello

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Speaker 1: esteemed listeners, and welcome to Stradio Lab. We are so

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Speaker 1: thrilled and honored that you are spending your let's say

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Speaker 1: Wednesday at three pm listening to us, whether you're driving

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Speaker 1: in your car to your next appointment or your home

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Speaker 1: naked from the bottom only bottom naked, wearing a shirt

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Speaker 1: Winnie the Poosh style, recovering from your former appointment, recovering

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Speaker 1: from your former appointment, walking around the house fully erect,

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Speaker 1: going into the kitchen making a grilled cheese out. You've

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Speaker 1: got some hot oil on your um, on your bare bones,

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Speaker 1: if that is you um, And we know you want

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Speaker 1: to turn us off, but we appreciate you sticking with

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Speaker 1: us through the pain, through the tears, through the crying

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Speaker 1: and the screaming. Just focus on our voice. Focus on

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Speaker 1: our voice and not on the physical pain you feel

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Speaker 1: from the scalding hot oil you accidentally got on your bone,

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Speaker 1: on your bone, on your butt bone that you got

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Speaker 1: while making a grilled cheese and because you were fully erect,

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Speaker 1: the your penis sort of knocked over the pan and

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Speaker 1: then the hot oil went onto your bone. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: if we're if, if if you if this hasn't happened

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Speaker 1: to you, Just so you're clear, what happened to one

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Speaker 1: of your fellow listeners, Is there penis knocked the pan

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Speaker 1: pan that was full of hot oil making a grilled cheese.

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Speaker 1: That pan hit the ground, causing the oil to splash

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Speaker 1: up and hit their bone. And for that listener, I

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Speaker 1: have one message, and it is that you know it

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Speaker 1: works better if you put may on the bread. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, not cooking tips. Um. Well, if you can

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Speaker 1: hear our voices, Yeah, we sound weird today, and by

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Speaker 1: weird we mean better, better, more calm um, more professional.

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Speaker 1: And it's because we're back in Hell's kitchen letting the

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Speaker 1: spirit run through us. Um. And yeah, you know, whenever

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Speaker 1: we're in a studio space talking about the podcast, want

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Speaker 1: to make the podcast, it does make us sort of

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Speaker 1: act like we're pretending to do a podcast, which is

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Speaker 1: weird because most people this is where they go to

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Speaker 1: record a podcast. Um, But for us, it always feels like, oh,

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Speaker 1: today we're playing dress up. Today we're playing podcaster. Strange. Well,

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Speaker 1: especially because we're in Hell's Kitchen, which is where all

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Speaker 1: gay men work in marketing. Yeah, you know when we're

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Speaker 1: doing it over zoom in our apartments, um, wearing sort

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Speaker 1: of a ripped band t. You know, it's punk rock,

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Speaker 1: it's the I y Um. You know, we're sort of

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Speaker 1: it's like it's Courtney Love giving a middle finger to

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Speaker 1: the camera. Yeah, so Courtney Love. And whereas now we're

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Speaker 1: sort of it's more, um, Kim Gordon, but like appearing

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Speaker 1: having a meeting a better brand partnership. Not Kim Gordon

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Speaker 1: during rock Star era. No, it's Kim Gordon appearing on NPR. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, she's talking about her punk rock

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Speaker 1: days and you know, and listen, we love Kim Gordon.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know she slay, you know she has

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Speaker 1: slay in the past, But in the moment when she

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Speaker 1: is wearing fully like a vintage blazer in a studio

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Speaker 1: on NPR, that's not the most she's slayed. No, But

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Speaker 1: also I'm not here to say when she slayed the most.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to just say that she has slaved, right,

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Speaker 1: and not rank the moments to ten. I'm not BuzzFeed.

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Speaker 1: I sort of want to know, like, how much does

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Speaker 1: someone have to slay in order to slave for life?

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Speaker 1: How much does someone have to slay in order to

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Speaker 1: slave for life. I'm thinking about this because this is

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Speaker 1: this is gonna date when we're recording this, But you know, today,

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Speaker 1: Gwen Stefani had a sort of embarrassing moment in the press.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen this? And when Sefini someone who, regardless

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Speaker 1: of anything she did during that era, you know, when

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Speaker 1: she was in no doubt she was slaying. That's something

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Speaker 1: we have to acknowledge. I would acknowledge that she was

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Speaker 1: slaying within no doubt. And so how much how many

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Speaker 1: years did she have to go not slag too in

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Speaker 1: order to no longer be someone who slays? Well, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people like this, like this is literally

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Speaker 1: the arc of fame where it's like how how good

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Speaker 1: do they have to be for you to forgive them

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Speaker 1: being bad? Bad bad? And I almost think I mean

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Speaker 1: to bring a sort of back to Kim Gordon. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like and Patti Smith is like this too, like

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Speaker 1: almost the best thing you can do is, as soon

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Speaker 1: as you realize you're no longer slaying, just keep reminding

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Speaker 1: people of the time you did. Say because maybe Gwen

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Speaker 1: Stefani's issue was that she kept trying to slay in

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Speaker 1: different ways and at some point you're gonna run out

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Speaker 1: of ways, you know what? Yeah, you're saying, like she

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Speaker 1: her thirst for slay was like too insatiable, that she

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Speaker 1: ended up tearing herself apart, right, And at this point,

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Speaker 1: when I think one Stefanie, I don't picture her wearing

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Speaker 1: the you know, bikini top from the Hey Baby video.

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Speaker 1: What do you picture? I honestly picture her, like with

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Speaker 1: Blake Shelter, I was gonna say the same thing. I

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Speaker 1: picture her on the Voice or whatever show she's on.

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Speaker 1: I picture her honestly. I picture her literally getting interviewed

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Speaker 1: by Jimmy Fallon. Well remember when she slid? Yeah? Wow, Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you like? I actually think it's funny. When

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Speaker 1: we started this podcast, we record in person, and we

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Speaker 1: were almost doing I remember doing like fake like podcast references,

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Speaker 1: like I'd be like, what's up? What the fucker's and

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Speaker 1: pretend like play, pretend that now that I'm here, I'm

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Speaker 1: sort of like I'm having an identity crisis. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: it's suddenly the Coons is me. Yeah, it's like I've

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Speaker 1: returned to where I was meant to be the whole time,

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Speaker 1: but it feels different. Well yeah, it's sort of like

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Speaker 1: when someone, um, I'm trying to think, who is someone

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Speaker 1: known for being a jester, for being someone who makes

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Speaker 1: fun of the culture, But then suddenly they find themselves

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Speaker 1: being awarded by Barack Obama. Sure, sure, Sure, that's what

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Speaker 1: we are. You know what it reminds me of actually

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Speaker 1: when like like when Eminem won an oscar, Sure, and

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Speaker 1: it's like it's a losing battle to try to then

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Speaker 1: win an oscar wearing like a basketball jersey, or to

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Speaker 1: win or like sort of do a speech as though

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Speaker 1: you are both outside of it and inside. You have

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Speaker 1: to either commit to ignoring the oscars and releasing a

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Speaker 1: statement that says I'm Eminem, God damn it, and I

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Speaker 1: only want to write songs about committing violence against women

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Speaker 1: and I hate the oscars. But if you're gonna go there,

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Speaker 1: you sort of it's sort of embarrassing if you don't

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Speaker 1: go all the way. So now that we're in a studio,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, the only way, the only way out of

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Speaker 1: this to be Terry Gross, you know what I mean? Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we can do that. So George, when did you know

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Speaker 1: that you were going to be a podcast? From a

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Speaker 1: young age, I learned to speak, and I would do

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Speaker 1: this thing where I would listen to my own voice,

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Speaker 1: and as soon as it became aware of object permanence,

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Speaker 1: I realized other people can't hear my voice. Only I can.

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Speaker 1: So you've talked to other interviews about your mother trying

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Speaker 1: to silence you tell me what that was like. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she would. When I would cry, she would say stop crying.

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Speaker 1: I mean. And that stays with you, that stays. That's

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Speaker 1: something you cannot forget, you know. It's it's it's a

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Speaker 1: way in which mothers of a different generation didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that when you're when a baby cries, it's because it

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Speaker 1: wants to be a podcaster. When a baby cries, it's

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Speaker 1: a cry for help for a podcast set up. It's

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Speaker 1: a cry for help for a podcast set up. And

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Speaker 1: it's also an empowering cry that says here I am.

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Speaker 1: It says what's up? What the fuck is? But you

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Speaker 1: know what she's she's come such a long way. She

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Speaker 1: now when I go home and I start crying like

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Speaker 1: a baby as soon as I as soon as I

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Speaker 1: enter my parents house, I start crying like a baby.

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Speaker 1: Google Gaga. I sort of throw bread against the wall.

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Speaker 1: I opened the fridge and and just start throwing things away. Um, I'm, i'm, I'm,

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Speaker 1: I'm fully naked, running across the house, around the room,

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Speaker 1: up and down the stairs, and now she knows, and

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Speaker 1: she says, good for you. Yeah, that must feel really good.

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Speaker 1: It feels really good. And it's gotten a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to get there, you know. And and yes, I've

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Speaker 1: gotten the authorities involved. You know. For a while, when

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Speaker 1: she kept saying, why are you doing this? This is

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Speaker 1: so inappropriate. We have guests over, I would call the

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Speaker 1: police and I would report her for creating an unsaved

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Speaker 1: home for her children. At the time, I was twenty

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Speaker 1: eight years old. But you know, everyone has to learn

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Speaker 1: their lesson. Yes, so you have a book coming out, correct, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's about my relationship with my mother, and um,

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Speaker 1: she does not like it. She's like, I can accept

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Speaker 1: you as a podcaster, but as an author, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so, honey. Yeah, yeah, and you know, yes, the book,

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Speaker 1: um is a children's book with pictures, and it's marketed

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Speaker 1: towards children. And yes, the pictures are in fact erotic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um. But to me, I'm like, okay, no

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Speaker 1: one has ever done this before. People have written memoirs before,

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Speaker 1: people have written books of humorous essays that are called

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Speaker 1: like that's My Seed, But no one has ever done

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Speaker 1: a children's book of erotic queer photographs of themselves. No,

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Speaker 1: that's true. I um let me finish dedicated to their mother. Sure,

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Speaker 1: well that's really powerful. On That's all I have to

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Speaker 1: say about that. So I think I'm ready to move

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Speaker 1: on to the next portion of this evening. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe we should invite our guests in and

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Speaker 1: talk about someone who slays. But I was someone who's

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Speaker 1: slaying and actually doesn't need to remind us that they're

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Speaker 1: slaying because they're slaying. I feel like this guest, I'm

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Speaker 1: almost like, well, ever since I've met them, they have

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Speaker 1: been slaying, and the fact that there could be some

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Speaker 1: point in the future where they stopped slaying and then

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Speaker 1: we have to sort of grapple with that as a

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Speaker 1: community fills me with so much fear that I can't

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Speaker 1: even think about it. I mean, that is the downside

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Speaker 1: to slaying, is that sometimes it creates a when the

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Speaker 1: other shoe drop feeling like if someone's not slaying, you're

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Speaker 1: not worried about them stopping slaying. Well, this is the

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Speaker 1: sort of like catch trying. Well, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: catch it was the right term, but let's just run

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Speaker 1: with it. Well, this is so this is a catching too,

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Speaker 1: is that sort of a sophie's choice. This is a

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Speaker 1: sophie's choice. Um, this is you know, it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like maybe the solution is to never slay. To begin with, Well,

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Speaker 1: isn't there a saying about that it's better to have

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Speaker 1: slayed and flopped than to have never slayed at all? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's true. I guess that's true. I sort

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Speaker 1: of think it's a it's a it's a very capitalist

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Speaker 1: impulse to not slay as a as a form of

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Speaker 1: self protection, where you're like, well what if I flop?

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Speaker 1: M hm, whereas it's more communist to try to slap

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Speaker 1: know you might flop, and trust that the social safety

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Speaker 1: that will catch you when you fall. Oh okay, sure

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Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. So anyway, please welcome Sabrina.

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Speaker 1: Will Hi everybody. So Sabrina, before we started recording, we said,

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Speaker 1: be careful, we're going to do a ten minute intro

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Speaker 1: and you said, no, that's totally okay. The first part

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Speaker 1: of the podcast is always most excruciating. How did you

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Speaker 1: feel about that? Yeah, you know, I actually felt better

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Speaker 1: than usual. Yeah yeah, yep, yeah, yeah no, And I

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Speaker 1: really mean it, And if anything, I was just like

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Speaker 1: I mean, what was so painful is like I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to jump in, like, congratulations on your book. I hope,

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Speaker 1: I hope, I hope you at at a cattle got

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Speaker 1: a Newberry? Yeah? Yeah, but do you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about? That? I do know what you're talking That

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Speaker 1: one is for the art specifically, you know I did

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Speaker 1: all the illustrations myself, or the photography and the illustrations.

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Speaker 1: Oh you illustration. Yeah. Well it's these really beautiful black

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Speaker 1: and white photographs, charcoal photographs, yes, charcoal photographs, and then

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Speaker 1: on top of them, I did a sort of Perez

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Speaker 1: Hilton white white, little dump come dots. Oh I love it. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what makes it a kid's book. It's sort of fun, right,

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Speaker 1: and I love it when it's like we it's actually

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Speaker 1: like a picture within it. It's like you're looking like

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Speaker 1: at a desk that the photo is and then there's

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Speaker 1: come on, yes exactly. And each book was made by

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Speaker 1: hand from scratch, which is why it's it was sort

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Speaker 1: of expensive to produce, and I'm in a lot of

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Speaker 1: debt because of it. It's not these did you did

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Speaker 1: you make so many? Yeah? Why did you make one

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Speaker 1: mill and all on your own? Well, because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a best seller. What am I gonna do

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Speaker 1: sell one book? Yeah? Yeah, you know. The holidays are

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Speaker 1: coming up just around the corner from the corner, so um,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're looking for a way to celebrate

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Speaker 1: what's in February March Valentine's Valentine's Day. What a perfect

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Speaker 1: give to your child Valentine. If you want to give

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Speaker 1: your child the perfect Valentine's Day gift, give your child

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Speaker 1: the erotic book that I wrote containing my nudes. Um.

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Speaker 1: Do you actually bring up an important point, which is

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Speaker 1: did you ever get like presents? Like did your parents

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Speaker 1: give you something on Valentine's Day? No? That sounds sick,

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Speaker 1: and I am publishing an appropriate children's um. No, in fact,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know if my parents are big president givers.

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Speaker 1: The only my dad tried by freshman year of high school.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, he gave me a ping pong paddle,

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Speaker 1: which but you didn't have a pin punk table? No,

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Speaker 1: we did, but opecially charged given that we weren't really okay,

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Speaker 1: and nobody think he wanted some bonding time and then

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Speaker 1: and then a neon green like sweatband, like like he

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Speaker 1: wanted to go pro oh heine work. He definitely did not,

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Speaker 1: but but I think he wanted to be look good.

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Speaker 1: Well he was sort of like, I mean, it's honestly

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Speaker 1: pretty considerate to be like, well, if they're gonna play

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Speaker 1: ping punk, they might as well slay. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember getting things and no matter what it was,

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Speaker 1: I would feel shame. I would be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: my parents are in love with me. Like they literally

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Speaker 1: got Valentine's they know, like like candy or like like

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Speaker 1: I remember one time they gave me like a bag

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Speaker 1: for like my track shoes. You know. It wasn't like fancy.

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Speaker 1: It was just like here's a thing because it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a special day. Well, here's what I'll say about

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day as someone who that's right, grew up in

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Speaker 1: two different countries. Something that always shocked me about Valentine's

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Speaker 1: Day in America is how the kids were made to

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Speaker 1: write each other Valentine's Oh yeah, yeah, what a strange

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Speaker 1: tradition in my opinion, Like you just write little How

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Speaker 1: did it work? You just wrote little cards that didn't

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Speaker 1: even have anything. It was just like from Sam to

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Speaker 1: George and then gave it to your classmate. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it was mostly like we're friends. Yeah, it was like

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Speaker 1: heart themed. Yeah, it was like taste and there was

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Speaker 1: like it was mostly like a heart themed Halloween. Like

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Speaker 1: it's just like kind of candy exchanging. And also it's

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Speaker 1: sort of popularity contest because at a certain age you

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Speaker 1: don't have to give it to everybody, and so then

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I got a hundred Valentines, and then

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh I only got ten. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: better next year I learned to make a splash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fifth grade is kind of hard grow up. Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: Did it still happen in fifth and fifth grade? I

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Speaker 1: actually feel like it did interesting, Like I think it

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Speaker 1: like went until middle school. Yeah. I think it was

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Speaker 1: like institutionally supported. Yeah, that's what it was like. I

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Speaker 1: don't think fifth grade as were like if you were

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Speaker 1: really into it, that's really I wasn't really, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: obsessed with it. I just knew I'd existed. For you.

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Speaker 1: How was what was your feeling towards it? I was, well,

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Speaker 1: I think I think my school had a policy where

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Speaker 1: you could not bring, like you couldn't only give to

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Speaker 1: some people. It was for everybody and and I think

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Speaker 1: I even I have, like I never remembered to bring

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Speaker 1: anything for anyone. It was like a big like I take, well,

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Speaker 1: that's never really give. That's kind of a power move though,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I mean it was to get back and

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Speaker 1: all the other social suffering. I mean, it's just sort

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Speaker 1: of crazy to think like that you were forced by

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Speaker 1: the powers that be to give a Valentine to like

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Speaker 1: someone who may have bullied you or someone who you

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Speaker 1: disagreed with politically. Well, I think it was, um, what's

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Speaker 1: that toxic positivity were They were almost hoping that it

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Speaker 1: would like make everyone get along and be like, if

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Speaker 1: you can just just give him a car and says

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Speaker 1: like thinking of you. But on the other hand, it

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Speaker 1: is sort of like, you know, it's it's Polly inclusive.

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Speaker 1: It is you know, everyone is in love with everyone

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Speaker 1: in fifth grade. You're not. Valentine's is such an individualistic

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Speaker 1: like either in a couple or you're not sort of

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Speaker 1: holiday as soon as you turn eighteen. But it's nice

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Speaker 1: that for a while there we all just lived in

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Speaker 1: a sort of you know, Swedish commune. Yes, it was

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Speaker 1: very beautiful. Well, yeah, I love my fifth grade polyquele. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget any of them. Yeah. Wow. Well anyway, Sabrina,

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Speaker 1: how are you? I'm great? This is this was the

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Speaker 1: highlight of my day or the vocal point of it.

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Speaker 1: So that's incredible. That's incredible. So George you're right now,

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Speaker 1: do you want to talk about that? No, No, we're

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Speaker 1: cutting that. We can pivot to me. Would that be

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Speaker 1: so crazy? No? No, And it's not because I didn't

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Speaker 1: give enough. No, it's because Sam asked the forbidden question

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Speaker 1: in fact, and work we'll do is we'll beat it

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Speaker 1: and then we'll just like reference it as a forbidden question. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess I first want to apologize for asking the

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Speaker 1: forbidden questions. Well, there's only one topic that is off

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Speaker 1: limits on this podcast. Yeah. Yeah, And it's tough because

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Speaker 1: you know, we're sort of like you said, punk rock,

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Speaker 1: um LOWERI sideg bs and UM. I thought, okay, so

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Speaker 1: I can say anything, and you know George is doing

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Speaker 1: you know, boners, burning bones and and and the children stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, let's see what else. Let's

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Speaker 1: see where else we can push the envelope here to me,

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Speaker 1: everyone can have one forbidden question, like it's I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to think of like you know, like celebrities that don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about a specific thing. It's like you,

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Speaker 1: if you're Tom Cruise, you're one thing can be that

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Speaker 1: you don't want to talk about scientology. But that's it.

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Speaker 1: You can only have one forbidden question. So where he

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Speaker 1: should ask him about his sexuality? We should exactly that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if he doesn't want us to ask about his sexuality,

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Speaker 1: then he has to talk about being a scientologist. You

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Speaker 1: can't have it both ways. Wow, do you have a

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Speaker 1: forbidden question that we're not allowed to ask definition? I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they will be able to do. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm an open book. You can't ask me anything

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Speaker 1: you want. That's a trap. No, I'm serious, No, I'm serious.

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Speaker 1: Like ask me anything? Do you think is the worst

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Speaker 1: question one of us could ask you? Can you ask

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Speaker 1: me that? Oh my god? Oh you know what? To

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Speaker 1: be honest, like if you ask me what thoughts are

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Speaker 1: on representation? I actually glitch out and like like spiral

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Speaker 1: and I hate to now harp on this what sort

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Speaker 1: of specific like part of the representation conversation? Would you

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Speaker 1: be most unwilling to talk about craft? Of the worst

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Speaker 1: possible question? And we won't we won't, we won't ask

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Speaker 1: it back. It's sort of like like you're in a

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Speaker 1: podcast too white gays are they're just like us but uglier. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly two white gays that are just like us but

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Speaker 1: uglier and sort of and dumber, you know, like okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what. It's sort of like if I am

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Speaker 1: an actor is making like representation for my own like

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Speaker 1: groups that I'm a part of, like really like good

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Speaker 1: for the world and like morally significant, like as like

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Speaker 1: does it make like me like an amazing person if

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Speaker 1: I'm like but it just depends like okay, do you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? Just sometimes it's just like a

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Speaker 1: little okay, I feel like I'm crazy. It's vibrating to me.

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Speaker 1: The question is like and maybe correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this is not what you're touching on. But

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Speaker 1: it's like there's a way to frame those questions where

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Speaker 1: the only possible way to answer feel self important and moralistic.

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Speaker 1: So it's almost like the person setting up for a

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Speaker 1: trap where they're like, do you feel like the work

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Speaker 1: you do is important? And you can't be like, well no,

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Speaker 1: but you also can't be like actually really important, right,

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Speaker 1: total yeah, yeah, right. Is that what you're saying a

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Speaker 1: little bit a little bit of that, And that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying when you ask me this and become completely

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Speaker 1: inco But I actually love that, And actually that is

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Speaker 1: a better reason to have a forbidden question than something

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Speaker 1: you actually don't want to talk about, because I agree

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Speaker 1: with you is that the topics people are most interesting

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Speaker 1: interested in often are the ones that have the most

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Speaker 1: nuanced and therefore the ones you don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about in like a live podcast format. Absolutely, it's very

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Speaker 1: save it for the book, Save it for the book, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I have you ever done something sort of interview based

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Speaker 1: and then asked them not to release it? No? I have,

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Speaker 1: really I did greta Titleman's previous podcast. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: called The Worst I believe, where you talked about like

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Speaker 1: the worst moment of your life, like a bad moment

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Speaker 1: of your life or something, and I talked about like

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Speaker 1: the nitty gritty details of a breakup. And I got

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Speaker 1: home and I was like, what was that? Like? In

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Speaker 1: what world did I think I would then feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: with that? Being like in the Apple podcast appter and

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Speaker 1: I text the gard I was like, I'm so sorry. Like,

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Speaker 1: absolutely don't release that. Wow? Was she okay with it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean listen, maybe behind my back she was dem ng,

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Speaker 1: you know, texting every other member of the Brooklyn comedy

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Speaker 1: scene and was like this dumb fag draw doesn't want

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Speaker 1: me to release his episode. But no, she was incredibly

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Speaker 1: nice about it. And I think it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: and thank god she was, and thank god because now

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Speaker 1: I sold it as a book. Um, do you guys

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Speaker 1: want to know my forbidden question? Yes? Yeah, it's um,

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Speaker 1: where were you on January six? Wow? And with that,

421
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: should we do our first second? Yes? We should, okay, Sabrina.

422
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: Our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in it

423
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: we ask you a series of rapid fire questions to

424
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 1: gage your familiarity within complicity and straight culture, especially this

425
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: thing or this other thing. And the only rule is

426
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: you can't ask any follow up questions. Great, okay, Sabrina.

427
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: Gentleman's Quarterly or Lady Marma Lied, Lady Marmal Lied, drag

428
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: him okay, Whole Cogan or Cat Cohen that has an

429
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: incredible question? Um, okay, Madam X or Mr Magoo, Mr

430
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: Magoo Okay, You're chosen family or your chosen financial plan

431
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: at Morgan Stanley, anything but chosen family, Okay Sabrina, a

432
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: gendered happy meal toy, or a rendered image of what

433
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: New York would look like with more in of urban

434
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: design chosen happy views. So I can say, okay, Lost

435
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: air Pods or The Last Airbender, Last Airbender, Okay Friday Sunday,

436
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: Bloody Sunday or Wednesday now streaming on Netflix, Wednesday streaming

437
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: on Netflix. Okay, Puss in Boots or Venus in Furs,

438
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: Venus in Furs. Why not? It's kind of crazy that

439
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: there's a children's character named Puss in Boots. I know,

440
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: I know, there's a sort of way in which this

441
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: is a sort of horseshoe theory of gay culture and

442
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: children's culture, where it's sort of like Puss in Boots

443
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: could either be like a really inappropriate drag queen or

444
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: it could be a cat wearing boots. Yeah, and thank

445
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 1: god's the ladder, and thank god it's the latter. Otherwise

446
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 1: I would have to vote Republican. Wow. Um, well, I

447
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: just want to say, um, I think you did incredible.

448
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna say nine doves. Um. We rate

449
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: each guest on a scale of zero to one thousand doves,

450
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: and I agree it was a nine dos performance. Yeah,

451
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,239
Speaker 1: there was a cool confidence Theresa. When where did I

452
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: lose the other doves? Yeah? I mean do you want

453
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: to hear the critique or yes? Yes, Sam, you can

454
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: go first. Okay, first of all, you had sort of

455
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: a knowing confidence, and we really loved that about your performance.

456
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: But there was um, sort of um, a dismissiveness um

457
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: to the questions that we just worked so so hard on.

458
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I felt like that was sort of

459
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: where we docked some doves. Well, that wasn't the tone

460
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: I was trying to strike. I was really trying. I mean,

461
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: I really respect you too, you know I I even

462
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: listened to a couple of episodes, you know, Sabrina. It's like,

463
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: we gave you nine d which is a very good

464
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: score on you know, there's no denying it. There's not

465
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: a perfect score. It's not sorry sorry, but you know,

466
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: to focus on the negative like this and and so

467
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: and suddenly make us justify our score that we selected

468
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: completely arbitrarely on our podcast. This is why you're never

469
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: gonna slay. How do you think I've gotten this? Yeah,

470
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, you know, I do think there's something

471
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: about being complacent, and I think, um, a lot of

472
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: times sometimes I'll be like, oh, it's good. You know

473
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: how people are like practice gratitude, like be happy for

474
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: what you have, Like what if that's wrong? Like sometimes

475
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I love my like little Bushwick apartment

476
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: and I love my like simple life, and it's like,

477
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: you have to leave that apartment. I need to like

478
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: go into like your debts so that I have to

479
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: work really really hard to get out of. And I

480
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: don't want to say one thing about your performance of Brina,

481
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: is that the fact that you I'm now realizing the

482
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: fact that you challenge the Nine Doves sort of makes

483
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: it a thousand dos because I think the fact that

484
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: you knew not to challenge us when we told you

485
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: not to ask questions, but then as soon as that

486
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: part of it was over, you immediately were like, well,

487
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: I want I want to see the paperwork. I want

488
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: to see the receipts. Why didn't I get a thousand?

489
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: And then we honestly didn't have a good enough answer

490
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: for you. So the fact that you exposed us for

491
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: the frauds we are means that you are winning a

492
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize in journalism, and the prize is a thousand doves.

493
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: This is like, this is actually a really important less

494
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: that all the children who are listening in high school.

495
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 1: I used to, you know, just like be really negative

496
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: by myself every time I, you know, got like a

497
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: nine out of town, you know what I mean, I'd

498
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: be like, But then there were always a bunch of

499
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: kids that would go back to the teacher and be scary,

500
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: just like the way I was too, really scary, and

501
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: then the next thing, you know, they have a four

502
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: point three. Yeah, it's really like, honestly, one of the

503
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: most important lessons in life is to know when to

504
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: challenge authority and when to sneakily not challenge authorities so

505
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: you can build up more challenging power later on. If

506
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: you had sort of responded to each one of our

507
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: straight shooters with like funk off, then at the end,

508
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: at the end, you would have no more leewaight, like

509
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: we would have no more patience for your challenging and

510
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: you would have no leeway to challenge your score, which

511
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: would at that point be like a sort of a hundred.

512
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: And every time you ask me a question, my brain

513
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: was like not now, Yeah, exactly, because you were like,

514
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: what if it later, I will need to challenge Yeah.

515
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: I mean, to be honest, if you had responded to

516
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: every single one yelling at us fuck off, I would

517
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: have to stand. Unfortunately, that's true. I mean it's really

518
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: tough because we are, on the one hand authority figures.

519
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: On the other hand, we ourselves are kind of Kim Gordon,

520
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: So it is difficult when we respect the challenging of authorities.

521
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: So it's always like my challenging authority, you're in fact

522
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: pandering to us. I do think we create a toxic

523
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: environment by like we reward people being bad and we

524
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: actually need to rule people who are being good. Have

525
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: you ever been in I'm So Good? Do you feel

526
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: like you would do well as an authority figure? I

527
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: I actually like actively like avoid positions of authority, like

528
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: and you've been asked all the time. No, well, not

529
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: later in life, because i've But but I think like

530
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: when I was like in high school and college, I

531
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: was especially high school, I was always like, let me

532
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: be captain to the team. But I was dropping yeah,

533
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: like I was dropping balls left and like not like

534
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: like like you know, like metaphorical the team dinners, like

535
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, if they're if I didn't have, like if

536
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: there wasn't so much like you know, you need to

537
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: So I thought it sound like such an ass you

538
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: do not sound like great, But there's like a lot

539
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: of pressure like everyone should be a leader, everyone should

540
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: be leader in your head, and you're like, okay, like

541
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I should be a leader, but I'll

542
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: do it because that feels like who I'm supposed to

543
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: evolve to. But later in life I've been like I

544
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: just fail everyone every time I do. This is such

545
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: a rich topic, and I honestly think like leadership could

546
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 1: be a straight topic on the podcast because it's almost

547
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: like what replaced religion when society became secular. It's this

548
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: obsession with leadership. It's like if Jesus is dead, someone

549
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: else has to step up. I mean leadership also in

550
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: business goes so hand in hand. But yeah, but also

551
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: when you were a teen, did you have sort of

552
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: like leadership camp or like leadership I remember seeing THO

553
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: It's like the best thing you could be told at

554
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: twelve years old is that you're a leader, not what

555
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: are you leading? What if you're leading? Like Q and

556
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: on what if you're literally leading the charge to for

557
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: the insurrection. I mean I bet a lot of them

558
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: were twelve year old leaders. Yeah, well yes, I mean

559
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: certainly cerebral y. It's just like it's very it's crazy,

560
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: the fetishizing leadership. I mean it's the same as fetishizing

561
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: like business success, where it's like, well, okay, a at

562
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: what be to one end? Yeah, those are the forbidden

563
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: questions and our society. Wow, yeah, it's very like okay,

564
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: but leading what like yeah, I don't want anything, you'll

565
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: have the like they did sort of within the framework

566
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: of leadership off or something for those who were not leaders,

567
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: and it was you know, it's even more powerful than

568
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: being a leader being the first follower. That was like wow,

569
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: did they say that? Yeah, it was a big thing.

570
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: It was like and they even have this like viral video.

571
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm butchering this, but in my head it exists as

572
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of sheep and like when sheep goes

573
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: this way right, and but it takes the second sheep

574
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: for then the rest of the sheep to you know

575
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: what I mean, like anyone that the ideas like anyone

576
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: can be a leader, but to discern you know who

577
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: to follow. That's fascinating. At least that was like sort

578
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: of this sort of you could I think that kids

579
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: were first sheep is taste maker. First sheep is taste

580
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: make Wow? Is it okay? Now? I'm like, I don't

581
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: know how I feel about that. Am I against the first?

582
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: Am I against the tastemaker sheep? Like? Do I think

583
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: that's a sort of toxic framework or do I actually

584
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: love that? Because if the tastemaker sheep is queer coded

585
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: in fact, don't you think like the leader, the leader

586
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: is straight, the leader is Barack Obama, but the tastemaker

587
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: sheep is you know, well I am writing the Obama song. No,

588
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: I think I mean as unfortunately I idolized the taste

589
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: maker sheep. I I I you know, I remember following

590
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: the taste maker sheep on Twitter and like two twelve

591
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: and just being so influenced by tastemaker sheep. And so

592
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: I feel very like I just hope to someone that

593
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I am the tastemaker sheep. To be the tastemaker sheep

594
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: actually such a powerful position in culture. I'm not realizing

595
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: and talk about like to go back to the conversation

596
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: about slaying, It's like at some point the tastemaker sheep

597
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: loses their taste making abilities, like they either get too

598
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: old to be in touch with the culture and not

599
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: not I'm not saying that in an ages way, but

600
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: just sort of like they get out of touch. Let's

601
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: say they snap and become reactionary, or they misunderstand their

602
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: own position and think they're a leader rather than a

603
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: taste maker sheep, and so they start making like merch

604
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, you just run an Instagram account

605
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: that curates TikTok's and so okay, yeah, that's where the

606
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: tastemaker sheep starts falling off for me, the Instagram accounts

607
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: that just curate TikTok, and I think the framework would

608
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: then say, you know, well those are the third, fourth,

609
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: and fifth followers. Those are not so in Instagram. So

610
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: an instagram that creates tiktoks can never be the taste

611
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: maker sheep. That's sort of fourth, fifth, six. I don't

612
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: write because that's already viral. It's yeah, wow, that is

613
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: very that's really true. So they're literally the one million sheep. Okay,

614
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: so so it goes leader tastemaker curator. The more we're talking,

615
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure this video wasn't up sheep and I but

616
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: the way it has been canon now for it might

617
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: as well be years like the merchants being made. The

618
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: idea that you think there's any going back from this

619
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: is laughing, Like, I'm actually seeing all the sheep, and honestly,

620
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: I'm realizing that it's kind of a danger because we're

621
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: gonna be having our listeners counting sheep in their head

622
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: and they can be falling asleep and it's you know,

623
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: it's like leader, taste maker, curator, leader taste maker, curator,

624
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: you're tatting the sheep. They're like, okay, so there's seventeen

625
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: sheep in the creative world. I'm sorry, but not to

626
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: go back to children's books. This is a genius idea

627
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: for a children's book, and it actually like so perfectly

628
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: describes contemporary society like to have. It's like the three sheep.

629
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: When is a leader, when is a taste maker? One

630
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: is a curator? Which one do you want to be?

631
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: And each person has it's the three personality types. Oh

632
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: my god, this is gonna end up in like it's

633
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: going to be a company personality. It already feels very

634
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: Myers Briggs. Yes, it is wow. Wow. Do you respond

635
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: well to things like that where it's like there's three

636
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: types of people, there's four types of people there, Like

637
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: is that something that compels you? It's something that like

638
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: all right, honestly, like if I take it, if I

639
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: take a little bit about all I will be doing

640
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: that for twelve hours. But it's not like I'm I'm

641
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: sort of always like, oh no, I'm gletching out again.

642
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: Maybe this is a forbidden question. I am like, uh,

643
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: it's just sort of like you know, I can never

644
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: talk about a feeling like I mean, there's some true

645
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: then it's also totally like fake in the you're you're

646
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: telling a machine and then it's spitting back exactly what

647
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: you've just told it and reducing what you said. But

648
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: even like not a test, but sort of a framework

649
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: that is your like the idea of introvert versus extrovert

650
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: where it's like you get your energy from being around people,

651
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: where you get your dream being alone, or the idea

652
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: or even like astrology, like you know, is it like

653
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: a comforting thing to put yourself in a box. I

654
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: have the most embarrassing tale of regarding this, which is

655
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, this podcast, Like I said, it's edgy, it's

656
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: punk rock, it's tv g B Debbie Harry Um and I.

657
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: We've always mocked sort of people that really lean into

658
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: the introvert extrovert thing, and it's sort of been like, yeah,

659
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: we get it. But recently I was around people for

660
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: a long time and I physically got sleepy in a

661
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: way that was like, like, I think I'm I think

662
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm an introvert. I've always sort of thought you were

663
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: an introverted, and this is shocking to me because I

664
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: was like, no, I don't even I don't believe in

665
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: it like everyone's everything. And now I'm like, oh no,

666
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: I believe in it so hard and I actually think

667
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: I know where I fall. Do you want to know

668
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: what was a game changer for me? Go ahead, just

669
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,479
Speaker 1: actually feeling brave. I'm feeling like your first follower through

670
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: this that I actually also recently really started to identify

671
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: as like an introvert and really needed it to like

672
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: not feel all like crazy and especially like in comedy,

673
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: either's way way too much, like there's way too many

674
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: social dynamics and like something about being like, oh I

675
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: really like just who I am. My natural baseline is

676
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: not the same as these other people and I it's

677
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: just like, it's nice you don't like beat yourself up

678
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: about like whatever. No, I think that's true. Vulnerable moment. Wow,

679
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: but scringe a little bit. Yeah, it's okay. I recently

680
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: had a um a moment of deep connection to something.

681
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: I read a categorization schema that I read, and this

682
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: is in the book Pure Color by Sheila Hetty, and

683
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: it sort of starts out and it's almost like you're

684
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: reading a biblical fairy tale or something in the beginning,

685
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: and it identifies three types of people bears, birds, and fish.

686
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: The birds see the world from a remove and they're

687
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: sort of like the cultural critics of the world. They're

688
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: they're like not making you know, intimate personal connections, sort

689
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: of seeing the world that are removed and making grand

690
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: aesthetic and and you know, artistic judgments. Then there are

691
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: the fish, which are sort of like they care about

692
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: social justice. They are they care about everyone equally and

693
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: they care about equality and things like that. And then

694
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: there are the bears, who develop personal connections and they

695
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: sort of can care deeply about like one to four people,

696
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: like they developed like intimate connections. And I was like,

697
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: this is actually a better framework than a lot of

698
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: the things out there. Would you say you're a fish,

699
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: bear or bird? I have no idea, I'm I'm I'm

700
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: still mulling it over. Well, we can check in at

701
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: the end of the episode. You don't think that, like, wait,

702
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: which one is the one has no close friends? So

703
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: which one is the loser? Bird is like imagine like

704
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: Susan Sontag. She's like out a remove, She's like judging

705
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: society almost like from outside of it. Oh interesting, But

706
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: then fish are like care about everyone equally and want

707
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: social justice inequality, and bears bears are like mother. Bears

708
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: are like a really caring friend that like has you know,

709
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: thrives in like intimate personal relationships rather than big picture.

710
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: Which one are you? I mean, I think I think

711
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: I might be bird. This is kind of what's the

712
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: scariest one. I mean, I can see you as bird.

713
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: But by the way, I do develop intimate relationships you

714
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: have friens don't have. But it's sort of like I

715
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: do feel like my instinct often is to like try

716
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: to to a fault almost like try to think big

717
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: picture and try to like I don't know, come up

718
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: with a diagnosis for what I'm seeing. Sure, I see

719
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: that this one seems this reminds me of the representation

720
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 1: question a little bit, because there feels like no way

721
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: to pick one without being self aggrandized, and because all

722
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: of them are good. I mean, either you are an

723
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: iconic cultural critic, or you care about social dresses, or

724
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: you are like a really good friend, daughter, son, parent. Yeah,

725
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: I okay, Well I have a reading on the fish

726
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 1: one that isn't like I mean, I don't not care

727
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: about social justice. Sure, I'm not saying this is somebody

728
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: who's like the most like you know, I mean never whatever, Okay,

729
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: but I think I am a fish in the sense

730
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: that like I actually cannot like there are so many

731
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: people I defend that I don't like that are not

732
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: close to me, or that are even like problematic, like

733
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: like like controversial figures like within the community that everyone

734
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: else is like you know, like I really think, like

735
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot about like this is fair and

736
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: like really, I don't know, I almost think that's a

737
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: bird impulse really yeah, because you're like doing critical analysis,

738
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: Like I feel like fish is simple or it's like

739
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: wanting everyone to be equal. It's like not caring more

740
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: about someone who's closer to you than you do about

741
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: someone on the street, Like it's a sort of equalizing thing,

742
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: whereas what you're doing, I think is is is like

743
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: critical analysis. What are you thinking? I don't know. I

744
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: think I don't get what the bird is up and

745
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: why is the fish social justice? Like that seems like

746
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: an oversimplification, Like I guess I have to read the

747
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: book to sort of see how we got share. I

748
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: think that could help inform um because the bird, I get,

749
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: like visually why they're seeing the world in this way.

750
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: I think fish think of like a school of fish

751
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 1: all moving together. You know, it's like more collectively minded. Okay, sure,

752
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: I think I mean the fish are bear, but I

753
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 1: don't know which. Wow. I feel like such a bitch

754
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: for identifying as a bird. Yeah, well, your tweets say

755
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: you are all right, we should we get into our topic. So, Sabrina,

756
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: I would love it with all my heart if you

757
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: would tell us what topic you have brought forth today

758
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: for this episode. Sure, and I'm actually gonna try to

759
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: move faster through my sentences. There is no reason to

760
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: move faster or slower. I need to get a thousand

761
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: domes on this whole episode. Sorry, sorry, okay, I did

762
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: I did come. I wanted to talk about homo eroticism.

763
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of the topic that it's sort

764
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: of the umbrella topic. Yeah, that is essentially what this

765
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: podcast is about. It is that. So, what what led

766
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: you to homoroticism? What was your way into totally thank

767
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: you as a straight topic? Well, as I was like

768
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: trying to come up with something straight to talk about,

769
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: I was going to like talk about anime and then

770
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: like and then my which I think is some people

771
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: think of this pretty queer, but I I have like

772
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: I have a pretty strong like I don't. I don't

773
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: think so like interesting. The women are um have a

774
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: very flat personality and the largest hits I've ever seen,

775
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: even if they're the strongest. Fine, okay, well yeah right,

776
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: so but the sort of pauses like, well, you know,

777
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: it's very homorotic, like a lot of these characters are

778
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: sort of but it's like the fact that there is

779
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: this sort of concept of homo right, like if it

780
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: were homosexual, that would be gay, but at last it's

781
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: it's homo erotic. It's like it's the what we're saying

782
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: is it's so close but it's actually not. And who

783
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: even wants that other than you know what I mean,

784
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: there's even closeted, closeted that's for gay, like that concept,

785
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: and that's pretty homosexual in my making sense, Like it's

786
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: the straightest thing you can be, because it is saying

787
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: this is not it's literally no homo, it's saying this

788
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: is not gay. I love the making them mutually exclusive

789
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: moronicism and homosexuality, I think is one very funny and

790
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: two very I see the truth in that. The anime

791
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: point about, like the women's huge tits and flat personalities.

792
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: There is an element to that where it's like were

793
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: these made by gay men? Like oh sure, yeah yeah.

794
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: When you you know, when you see misogyny out in

795
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: the wild, you always have to hask yourself, is this

796
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: game misogyny? Ray misogyny? Often the result, often the result

797
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: is pretty similar. Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like, well,

798
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: she is slaying right, but did she want to say

799
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: that she has sexual object or iconic object? No? I

800
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: think you're imagining these women like a little bit too powerful,

801
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: like they are sort of like do you think Lara

802
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: Croft is Lara Croft is? She's an iconic objects? An anime,

803
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: she's she's a video. But I'm just thinking about other

804
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: sort of like exaggerated fictional animated or animated adjacent women

805
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: who famously have giant breasts. Okay, hoticism, How would we

806
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: define homoeruticism. I think maybe that's a good place to start.

807
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: So it's two guys, two to four guys. Yeah, First

808
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: of all, it can be women. Okay, this is the

809
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: first time hearing of this, Like Sam, women can be

810
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: homorotic to one another. I'm listening and I'm learning. Okay, Okay,

811
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: so it's a group of people. Yeah, And just just

812
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: to say, as a non bining person, nonmining people cannot

813
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: like it's never it's you're never like this is. You'd

814
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: be like, no matter where they lean, you're like, that's gay.

815
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: But it's really Yeah, well that's sort of how it's.

816
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: In that way, you are breaking the ultimate boneer between

817
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: homooticism and homosexuality. Wow, Wow, something you think about, something

818
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: to think about. To me, it's like it is the

819
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: hint of everything, but anal it's like the hint it is.

820
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: It is hinting at homo homosexuality, hinting at same sex attraction. Sure, sure,

821
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: but is it something more than that. I mean, don't

822
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: we refer to like those weird old Greek art paintings

823
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: that are like two guys like truly going at it.

824
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: Does that not kind of homo erotic? Well, that's that

825
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: is a very good question, because you do see actually,

826
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: like a truly three guys having full on sex. Yeah,

827
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: and people are like, wow, this is so homorotic, and

828
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I think it's more than that. That's

829
00:47:54,520 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: actually porn. But people who are going yeah, like oh my, yeah,

830
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: that's true. Well, accusations with homoroticism can almost be weaponized

831
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: both ways, because straight people can look at something fully

832
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: gay and be like, wow, I guess that's a little homorotic,

833
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 1: and then they're like straight watching it. But then gay

834
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: people can look at like, you know, Ben Affleck and

835
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: Matt Damon and be like that's homorotic. It's like, well, no,

836
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: you're like trying to make it gay, right, they're just friends. Yeah,

837
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: I think, huh, we don't know, we don't know. Maybe

838
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: that's there forbidden questions. Yeah, I mean it is sort

839
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: of like the fact that Ben Affleck's most lasting relationship

840
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: is with Matt Damon, and then he he keeps he's

841
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: sort of his dating an iconic pop star Jennifer Lopez.

842
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 1: It's kind of gay. That's really gay? Actually yeah, so okay. Well,

843
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: thoughts on like queer baiting and how it that was

844
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: like sort of my thought on the subway, like how

845
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: it fits into all of this talk about it forbidden question?

846
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: Oh God, Like don't you think it is impossible? Like

847
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: the idea the concept of queer baiting is one of

848
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: those things that I don't think a good form a

849
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: coherent thought about the way that that is a circle.

850
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: Always when people start talking about it, I'm always like, oh, no, no, no,

851
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: because because my instinct to be honest is to almost

852
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: be like that is sort of tumbler bullshit, and I

853
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: don't and I don't care about it, Like it literally

854
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: does not make a difference to me that Timothy Shallow

855
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: may is playing a gay person or sorry, which is

856
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: I realized, is like a different that's different than queer bating,

857
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: or that Timothy Shallow is wearing a you know, bra

858
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: on a red carpet or Harry style whatever. But then

859
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: of course someone does toe the line too much, and

860
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: then I do become upset who tells the line too much,

861
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: not tows the line, but like, I mean, I think

862
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: Harry Style is a good example. It's difficult to talk

863
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: about this without while also being like, I actually don't

864
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: like none of this is morally important. It's just annoying.

865
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: Don't you think like I think it is. I think

866
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: you can be like it is annoying and it makes

867
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: me roll my eyes when Harry Styles is like I've

868
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: never identified as anything right when he's dating a little

869
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: bit wild. But that doesn't mean I think he should

870
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: be arrested. No, I don't think he should be murdered.

871
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: I think he should be allowed to put out more

872
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: music if he wants to. And and by the way,

873
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: talk about homeraticism, I actually think I think if you're

874
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: gonna queer bait, go all the way. Like I love

875
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: that Bruce Springsteen like makes that with uh that forgetting

876
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: his name if you know, you know, he makes out

877
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: like a member of a male member of his band,

878
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: like and it's like a thing that people know about

879
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: and he will like kiss him while they're on stage,

880
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: or like who's the guy from Arctic Monkeys Alex Turner?

881
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: He has like this other group and they always are

882
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: like being intentionally like caressing each other's like pecks on

883
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: stage and it's like everyone knows about it and it's

884
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: fun and they're like almost making out and I'm sort

885
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 1: of like, well, that's that's fun and that's more fun

886
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: to me than Harry style is just wearing a dress. Yeah,

887
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? My thoughts are I also wreak down,

888
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: but this one and not to be so serious, but

889
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: like the the only thing that gives me pause because

890
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: I generally also find it like annoying. It's just like

891
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's also a lot like to

892
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: like what's what's what's the alternative? Like given a world

893
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: where like Harry is like even like gender queer or like,

894
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: it's just like when you're that famous, I feel like

895
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: the stakes are insane, and to ask somebody to be

896
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: like overtly gay, it's like like I'm sort of like

897
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: and that's why I break out. Oh that's why I

898
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: just jump ship from this question because I'm like, I'm

899
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: not I don't think queer baiting conceptually is great. I

900
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: just think that like like queer bating in a vacuum

901
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: is not great. But like pushing somebody to like never

902
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: seem gay unless you're ready to fully commit to be

903
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: openly gay. Especially is like a world like in a

904
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: world where there is so much like violence and hat

905
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: YouTube is scary. I'm sort of like, yeah, like do

906
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: what like does that make sense? Like the danger of

907
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: cuerbating is like it's very hard to tell if somebody

908
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: is we're baiting or just like trying to navig as

909
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: like a twenty four year old or whatever whatever age

910
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: Harry styles is. Yeah, yeah, well did I ruin this point? No,

911
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: you didn't ruin it. You didn't ruin it. I think

912
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: that I d dobs. What do you think? I don't know.

913
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: I think I also I mean we're full of people

914
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: being like I don't know, but I think it's but

915
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: I think it's almost like it's a class. It's almost

916
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: like weird that we haven't discussed the concept of queer

917
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: baiting on the POT because it seems so relevant to

918
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: our interests. It seems so easy to be like to

919
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 1: come off as ignorant when talking about this, because I am.

920
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: I am more like, like this is so annoying, like

921
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: like if you're going to be gay, be gay, and

922
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: if you're not, or like even say like I'm questioning

923
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: or something like there is a label. There are labels

924
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: for a reason, and some people like Hairy Styles. It

925
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: seems like there's I don't know, it seems like there's

926
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: some authentic part of him that like wants to explore

927
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: something and I celebrate that. Um and if not, then

928
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 1: this boy cuckoo um. And but then there's like who's

929
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: really bad at it? Like um, like Charlie Pooth, Like

930
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,479
Speaker 1: I feel like he's one that It's like he he's

931
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: just trying to like get gay guys to like it.

932
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: Okay that it's so funny that you say that, because

933
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: I prefer Charlie Pooth's brand of queer baiting, because what

934
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: Charlie Pooth will do is just post a picture of

935
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: his ass and then have a funny captain. It's like, well,

936
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: there's my ass, whereas what Harry Styles will do is

937
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: launch a line of gender neutral clothing for Gucci. And

938
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: to me, I actually prefer Charlie Pooth just posting a

939
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: photo of his ass like that actually feels regardless of

940
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: whether he literally has a He's like sitting back there

941
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: in his lair and he's like, I'm gonna get these

942
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: gay guys to press like on this. Even if it's

943
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: completely inauthentic, whatever, it feels at least fun and spontaneous

944
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: in a way that like Harry Styles launching a brand

945
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: of nail polish does not. Sure sure, sure that makes sense,

946
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: And I almost I feel like the best sort of

947
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: like non gay. You know, when I think of like

948
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: Prince or when I think of like I don't know

949
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: other people that have played with gender over the years

950
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 1: without necessarily be like coming out and being like I'm gay.

951
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: It's that it comes from a place of like fun

952
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: rather than a place of like calculated branding and profit

953
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: and profit. Yeah, so if you want to explore with

954
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: your presentation or your sex stuality, um, go for it.

955
00:54:46,120 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: But don't you make a damn dime until I'm rich Sabrina.

956
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: If you were to launch a brand that that that targeted, um,

957
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: the lgbt Q plus community, what sort of product do

958
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: you think you would launch? Oh my god, um oh

959
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: I would I would get lesbians like a hat that

960
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: cannot go backwards? Wow? Is that okay? To say? Well?

961
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: This is always the question is how do you enforce that? Right? Well,

962
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: it would start like making a noise when it was

963
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: the other way, it would just be like maybe they

964
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: start to weight in it where it's like this, like

965
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: you could spin it around as much as you want,

966
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: but the bill always moves to the front, like maybe

967
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: it's like a magnet. Yeah, oh my god, yes, it

968
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: could be done with magnetic properties. I'm actually going to

969
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: do this in my lifetime. It's perfect. That's gus. And

970
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: you agree like there's something about that is not our

971
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: place to say, Sabrina, And if that's how you feel,

972
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: then absolutely like make that and make that pronouncement on

973
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: our pod cats. But you're not going to trick us

974
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: into agreeing with you that lesbian should not wear backwards hats.

975
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: It's not even like that. It's just and I'm look,

976
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: I love every lesbian, not all equally clearly, but you're

977
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: not a fish, right, I'm I'm unfortunately the bird. You're

978
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: a bird. You're a bird in the sense that you're like,

979
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: why are are all these lesbians ringing backwards? Well, it's

980
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: just that I guess, like if I had to see

981
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: my preference, like I prefer lesbians, oh you know, well

982
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: I think of lesbians on a spectrum there beautiful less right, Okay,

983
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: And you say beautiful, Yeah, spectrum sum lesbians in their

984
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 1: backwards tattoo. When I see them in the audience of

985
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: a stand up too, I'm scared, Like I'm actually scared

986
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 1: that they will okay, And then on the other side

987
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, a lot of them honestly are there.

988
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: It actually gets buyer on this side. But it's like

989
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: it's the turtleneck big pants kind of and I generally

990
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: sort of lipstick lesbians not lipstick, No, no, no, there's

991
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: in fact no lipstick, not actively chapstick, Like I like

992
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: it's that, but it's like it's it's the tumbler hoe

993
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: but not even like it can be just more like

994
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: a little like a quiet meat versus like loud sporty.

995
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: Got it right, You're it's Rooney Mara and Carol No

996
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: is that the actress? Yeah? Yeah, thank you. So you're

997
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: you're saying Tumbler thought your words. I guess that's what

998
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like tumbler thought on this side, And I

999
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of don't really loved backwards hat on one side

1000
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: Tumbler thought anything right, And I'm sort of caught between

1001
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: both worlds, like like in terms of like I love,

1002
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: like I don't like read a lot and that, but

1003
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: I did play like a lot of sports, like you know,

1004
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: but there's just something about like the backwards hat where

1005
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm just sort of like, to me, there's a lot

1006
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: less like let's think about queering the world. It's a

1007
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: lot of like I love women, I love like, I

1008
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: love drinking my beers and like and I guess it's

1009
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: or and it's not even like every lesbian with the

1010
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: backwards hat is is like that, but they are perpetuating

1011
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: that culture because that is a symbol, that kind of

1012
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: hate symbol. Yes, yes, with equal like with equal weight,

1013
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: as as any other um uh well, I don't know

1014
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: any other symbols. Don't put that trying to bleep that

1015
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: out if you if you're a lesbian wearing a backwards hat,

1016
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: you might as well you actually have to cut that out.

1017
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: Can you just bleep it? Can use their imagination about

1018
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: you know, sort of what came to my mind. Yeah,

1019
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 1: this is really um maybe we should advertise it even

1020
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: as like Straighty lab censored like never before, Sabrina, do

1021
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: you feel like when a lesbian I'm not even gonna

1022
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: ask how you're going to police that these hats only

1023
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: be worn by lesbians. I'm just gonna assume there's a

1024
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: framework in mind. But let's say they're only worn by lesbians.

1025
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: Is your goal for the person who wears his hat

1026
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: to then sort of be led to self reflection. They

1027
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: try to turn it around, it doesn't go around, and

1028
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: then they're like, wait a minute, what am I trying

1029
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: to do by turning my hat around? Exactly? Like when

1030
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: when when you try to turn around, it says things

1031
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: like don't say shoddy or don't like, don't like if

1032
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: you're you know what I mean, it's actually specifically maybe

1033
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: for white and Asian lesbians or like, you know what

1034
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: I mean, like light skinned lesbians cannot you know what

1035
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to avoid. It's what is that called? Like, hey, mama, lesbian,

1036
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: I want to it's not it's not eugenics, is I'm

1037
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: not like killing? No, like I think there should be fewer.

1038
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: I think there should be fewer, And then it's not,

1039
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: that's not who lesbians are like at their core. You

1040
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: can put one of those types of lesbians in a

1041
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: museum totally and then the others will change just inside

1042
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: the glass with one's going to see this, but you know,

1043
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: you know my god. If I were to describe what

1044
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: Sabrina is doing, I would say, imagine the emoji that's

1045
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: biting his lip. Yeah, that is sort of the vibe.

1046
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: That's the kind of lesbian vibe that you're talking about. Yes,

1047
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: I can picture it so well. And in fact, the

1048
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: biting of the lip is even more evocative than the

1049
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: backwards hat in some ways. I mean, the way that

1050
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: you've painted a picture. I I wish there was video.

1051
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: I feel I know this person, you know, so yeah, yeah,

1052
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: well you know someone who used to be one I

1053
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: used to wear you used to be. I mean, I

1054
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 1: was never a hey mama, there's no word of me

1055
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: that good. You know. Yeah did you say shoddy? No? No,

1056
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: but I was so close like did you? And I

1057
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: definitely wanted to. I was like, we want to ask

1058
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: my girl out to like saying my girl or even

1059
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: like god forbid my lady, right, never my lady. You

1060
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: never said my girl out loud, but definitely thought that way,

1061
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like internally, I was like,

1062
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: why is she going to prom with that guy? Like

1063
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: I'm just as good at sports as him, and and

1064
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: I I can dance like I'm so good at like

1065
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like whatever, whatever. Maybe she knew

1066
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: that he was a really good leader. He wasn't I

1067
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: was a good leader. I thought you were dropping balls.

1068
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm like really learning a lot about

1069
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: how does that happen to you? Where you're like as

1070
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: you age, your like your conception of your earlier self,

1071
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: Like as you talk, you're like, we do, I don't

1072
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: know what I think of how I was like, it's

1073
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: hard to create a succinct narrative, and like we we

1074
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: talked about how we both think of ourselves as like

1075
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: we were really good boys, and so now we kind

1076
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: of feel like we can be really bad and be like,

1077
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: well everyone knows we're good boys, and it's like no,

1078
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like you can slay and then

1079
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 1: you can stop slaying. But for how long until people

1080
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: just did? In terms of being a good boy, yeah,

1081
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: and yeah, and the frame and the in a family

1082
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: framework explaining means being a good boy. But I also,

1083
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I mean I've talked about this before, but to me,

1084
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: the episode of thirty Rock where Liz realizes that she

1085
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: used to be a bully when she thought that she

1086
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: used to be the victim, do you know what I'm

1087
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: talking about. Oh yes, that's like the first episode, she

1088
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: like goes to her high school reunion and she thinks

1089
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: that all of these popular girls bullied her, but in fact,

1090
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: what happened was that she was so afraid of being

1091
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: bullied that she would like preemptively be like, what's the

1092
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: deal with your mom's pill addiction? Like to the popular

1093
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 1: girl whatever. That's like one of the lines whatever. And

1094
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: I do I mean not to say that I was

1095
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: that bad, but I do think it was a form

1096
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: of self preservation, where like, because you don't want to

1097
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: be the butt of a joke, you then speak out

1098
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,439
Speaker 1: of turn and like make fun of someone or like

1099
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: I think you're punching up, but it's like, well that

1100
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: is still a thirteen year old boy. Yeah so yeah, um,

1101
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: but no, to answer your question, we know exactly who

1102
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: we are and we always know who we've been, and

1103
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: all narratives are linear and yeah wow wow, well homoticism, Yeah,

1104
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: I actually think we like randomly got deeper than I

1105
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: completely agree. I'm trying to think of like what is

1106
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: the straightest Oh my god, wait, we haven't even talked

1107
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: about this. Talk about women and home raticism. The epitome

1108
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: of straight homeraticism is like the dorm poster of two

1109
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: girls making out, do you know what I mean? Like

1110
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: like the beer ad where the twins where it's like

1111
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: I love twins, like that sort of Sabrina you look, well, yeah,

1112
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,479
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I just don't know this dorm post,

1113
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: so I think maybe you're like truly like a couple

1114
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: of generation younger but like people listening. No, there's a poster.

1115
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: It's a black and white photo of two to two

1116
01:03:55,240 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: girls very sort of like conventionally attractive in girls in

1117
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: like underwear and like a tank with no braw exactly,

1118
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: and they are in about to kiss or maybe in

1119
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: the process I think they're making I think they're they're

1120
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: actively making out. But it's like that is it was

1121
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: in like half of all dorm rooms for for like

1122
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: I think a decade and then of course, like you know,

1123
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: it was like that in the pulp fiction poster like

1124
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: oh that one is still around with the bananas or

1125
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: like or think about the Rolling Stone cover that was

1126
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: Blake Lively and Laton Meester licking an ice cream cone?

1127
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: Does that bring any bells? Not as many, but you

1128
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: can clearly imagine what I'm saying. Yes, simply just the

1129
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: two of them both liking the same ice cream cone.

1130
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is like men fetishizing lesbianism is the

1131
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: ultimate sort of homo roticism is straight. Of course, that's

1132
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: true homo roticism for straight consumption, for straight consumption. And

1133
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: then for man, what would it be? It would be

1134
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: the Abercrombie guys exactly in two thousand three, yeah, Abracama three.

1135
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: And also soccer players after they win, when they are

1136
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: just like literally fingering each other, like why do they

1137
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: do that? It's actually insane, Like they need to stop

1138
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: talk about queer baby and were and we're put putting

1139
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: Harry Styles on the cross. Yeah, put the UK soccer

1140
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: team on blast, like what are they doing? Well? I

1141
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: think we should maybe do our final set. I agree.

1142
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: Any final thoughts on homeoroticism, No, just thanks, And I

1143
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: can't believe I missed such a huge topic, like oh yeah, yeah,

1144
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: all right, I'm really excited about the launch of the

1145
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: hat thank you. Yeah, I can't wait for that party.

1146
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: And we're we do operate an investment fund and we're

1147
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 1: looking for things to invest in, and we especially love

1148
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: queer creators. And legally I could not make this hot

1149
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: without you, given that I will use Pat in Magnet

1150
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: College and that was our idea. Yeah from the lab.

1151
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah literally literally wow, Okay, will you introduce our finals?

1152
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: I would be honored and and overjoyed. Our final segment

1153
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: Sabrina is called shoutouts, and in this segment we pay

1154
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: homage to a classic straight art form called the radio

1155
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: shout out. Think TRL Think UM, a radio morning show

1156
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: on Z one. We are shouting out to something that

1157
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: is making us say, Okay, Sam, do you have one? Um? Sure?

1158
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: What's up? Everyone around the globe? I love you, I

1159
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 1: see you, And I want to give a quick shout

1160
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: out to riding my bike. I had not been riding

1161
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: my bike as much recently. I blame the pandemic, and

1162
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: then I blame sort of leaving the house less generally.

1163
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: And today I met a friend for lunch and I

1164
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,919
Speaker 1: rode my bike, just a short, little fifteen minute bike ride,

1165
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: and I said, this puts me in an incredible mood.

1166
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: I feel my mind is cleared. I feel in touch

1167
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: with the city of New York, and I feel like, yeah,

1168
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm still rough and tumble. I'm still a guy who

1169
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: rides bike somewhere, and and and maybe Carl pass Hey

1170
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: stop it, and I take up space in the road,

1171
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to do it. Um. I think that's

1172
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: why my ass looks the way it does because of

1173
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: all those biking years. And I just want to say,

1174
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: I love you bike riding. You make me feel whole. Wow. Wow,

1175
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: I think that's why my ass looks the way it looks.

1176
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,439
Speaker 1: What of the what of the hotter statements you've said

1177
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: on this podcast recently? Yeah, you know, sometimes you gotta

1178
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: lean in or lean back. I'll say, let's see, I'm

1179
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: trying to think of what. I know. You gave me

1180
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: so much time, and yet I still I'm coming up blank.

1181
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: This is truly insane. This is the second time that

1182
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: has happened to me this week. You've got it. I know.

1183
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay um, okay um. What's up

1184
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: everybody out there. It's your boy, George, and sorry for

1185
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: introducing myself as such. We'll have flaws. I want to

1186
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: give a shout out, respectfully and honorable to my favorite

1187
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: breakfast of choice recently, which is a piece of toast,

1188
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: cottage cheese, pistachios and then cracked black pepper. I'm telling you,

1189
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: commind this baby with a fresh pot of Joe and

1190
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: you are cooking. Wow. And I've already shouted out good

1191
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: culture cottage fees on this podcast, but this twenty was

1192
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: years ago. So for all our your listeners, go out there.

1193
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: Get some good culture cottage cheese, Get some bread of

1194
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: your choosing. Get some shelled pistachios. I know it seems

1195
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: so glamorous and so expensive, but you have to treat

1196
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: yourself to shell pistatio's. Put a couple of them on.

1197
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm talking no more than five to six, and then

1198
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: if you don't mind getting mesty, sprinkle some olive oil

1199
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: on it. And if you are sort of on the go,

1200
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: just the black pepper will do. And then go about

1201
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: your day. I guarantee you you will get that big client,

1202
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: you will land that big meeting, and you will get

1203
01:08:56,360 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: that job. Why because you had a good breakfast. I

1204
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: love that you're a breakfast freak. I'm not like I

1205
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: know that. When we were together, and I like famously

1206
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 1: I kept having three eggs every morning. You were so

1207
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: addict and I do love making breakfast into an event.

1208
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 1: But when I'm working, I love just like that's sort

1209
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: of small. I mean, I'm talking one piece of toast,

1210
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: Like just like to have a tiny meal to just

1211
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: wet your appetite for lunch and know that in three

1212
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: short hours you'll eat again. There's nothing like it. Wow,

1213
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: are you a breakfast person? I am a breakfast person

1214
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: since that I love when I get I think that

1215
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 1: in the morning I'm the most open minded. And the

1216
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: foods that I just think eggs are gross. But you

1217
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: don't like eggs. I mean I eat them, but they

1218
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: feel very gross. Yeah, like them. And it's just like

1219
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: I think the morning is a special time, like I think, yeah,

1220
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: it must be an enjoyable time to eat because I'm

1221
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: eating the foods I would never eat past the hour

1222
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 1: of like toast, eggs. Yo. Great, They're all kind like

1223
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: I've been really grandma, Like I I just am never

1224
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: in the mood for yogurt, you know what I mean.

1225
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: I think that makes one of us. Um. Anyway, whatever

1226
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: you're writing, feel free to go for it. Okay, I'm

1227
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, Hey Sabrina, Hi, Okay, I'm so I'm

1228
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's gonna be a soundtrack underneath this,

1229
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: too hot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, um, I have

1230
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,759
Speaker 1: to shout out. I I love all of my followers equally,

1231
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: but there's one there's one fan in particular that I

1232
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: have to shout out, mostly because actually two and a

1233
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: half years ago, he said to me, if you ever

1234
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: get on Stradio Lab, there is this segment cold shout out,

1235
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: and he would actually mean the world to me. Have

1236
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: you shouted me out? He's somebody that I that I

1237
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: auditioned for many all vant Guard players he directed in college,

1238
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, he casted me into the ensemble. He's so hot,

1239
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: but sorry, fellas, he's taken and he's so I'm well

1240
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: a huge fan of the pod. Um Thomas Peterson. The

1241
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: shout out goes to you. Oh my god, Thomas. Wow, unbelievable.

1242
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 1: That was incredible. That was amazing. Do you ever get

1243
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: like reminded that people actually listen to this podcast and

1244
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: go whoa not if I can help it? I'm like,

1245
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: how the hell did he hear about this? It's crazy?

1246
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: He got like all my everyone that I did, like

1247
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: plays within college, obsessed with this podcasts. That's actually why

1248
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I need to because people are gonna listen. Actually,

1249
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: be honest, it feels like I'm auditioning again for a play,

1250
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: like I feel stressed. Well, let me tell you you

1251
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: got the row booked. Thank you, thank you, thank you,

1252
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing the pod. I always love

1253
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: ending um on a sort of self congratulatory note. Yeah,

1254
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: good job George, and good job to you. Well, thank

1255
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: you everyone for listening, especially and to you, honestly, great

1256
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: job Thomas, because you know what Thomas is for sheep,

1257
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: for sheep, influencer sheep. What's called tastemaker sheep. That's a tastemakers. Yeah,

1258
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: we have to go, but tastemaker sheep is one of

1259
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: the most incredible inventions. That's the name of the hat company.

1260
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, And my challenge to everyone is spend

1261
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: just spend some time thinking about the sheep from work,

1262
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: because it's actually genius. Goodbye, goodbye,