WEBVTT - Beheaded II

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>and Grimm and Mild from Aaronminkie. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>On November eighth, fifteen forty one, Queen Catherine Howard was

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<v Speaker 1>brought to a small room to sit opposite Thomas Cranmer,

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<v Speaker 1>Archbishop of Canterbury. The Archbishop had assured King Henry the

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<v Speaker 1>Eighth a few days prior that his interrogation would be

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<v Speaker 1>harsh and merciless, that he would import on the King's

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<v Speaker 1>young bride the severity of her crimes and scare her

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<v Speaker 1>into full honesty. But when Cranmore saw the young girl,

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<v Speaker 1>he felt his resolve drain away. She was weeping, already

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<v Speaker 1>frantic with grief and terror, her bloodshot eyes darting around

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<v Speaker 1>the room as if an executioner's blade could appear at

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<v Speaker 1>any moment. But she also looked so small, so young.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a nineteen year old girl, and she was

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<v Speaker 1>in a chair that looked far too big for her.

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<v Speaker 1>Grandmar really had all the information already that his investigation

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<v Speaker 1>really needed. Only two weeks ago, the allegations had just

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<v Speaker 1>been a rumor, a single rumor from a single source.

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<v Speaker 1>The claim was this, that the new queen had been

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<v Speaker 1>less than virginal when she had married the king. Someone

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<v Speaker 1>had informed the archbishop that in Catherine's home growing up,

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<v Speaker 1>she had not one but two affairs, first with her

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<v Speaker 1>music teacher and then with her grandmother's secretary. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>or did you not? Cranmar began, as soon as Catherine

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<v Speaker 1>had caught her breath, have a sexual relationship with your

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<v Speaker 1>music teacher, Henry Mannox when you were living with your grandmother,

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<v Speaker 1>the dowager Duchess in Lambeth. Catherine wailed, no, sir, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a flirtation, that's all. He never knew me, and

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<v Speaker 1>the way a husband knows his wife. I have only

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<v Speaker 1>ever been true to King Henry. And what of a secretary?

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<v Speaker 1>Some time later, a man named Francis Derham? Did you

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<v Speaker 1>know him? Intimately? Catherine's breath began to quicken erratically. Cranmar

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<v Speaker 1>noticed her cheeks and dressed sleeves were both wet with tears.

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<v Speaker 1>Be honest, child, Granmar said, The Lord is merciful to

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<v Speaker 1>those who are honest. As almost an afterthought, he added,

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<v Speaker 1>I have already spoken to both men. Catherine didn't respond,

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<v Speaker 1>and Cranmar continued, you and Derham called each other husband

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<v Speaker 1>and wife. Did you not, Catherine nodded, Were you formally

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<v Speaker 1>bound to Earham? The archbishop continued, still unable to quite

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<v Speaker 1>locate the harsh tone that he had rehearsed. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>lie with him? Once more? Katherine nodded her head. We

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<v Speaker 1>did lie together two or three times in my bed

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<v Speaker 1>in the maidens chamber when I lived in Lambeth. But

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<v Speaker 1>I never betrayed King Henry. I never betrayed my husband

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<v Speaker 1>or sinned against him in any way. But she had

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<v Speaker 1>already said enough. She had betrayed the king, betrayed him

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<v Speaker 1>by pretending to be a virgin in a lie by omission,

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<v Speaker 1>humiliated the king by now letting the whole world know

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<v Speaker 1>that he had been fooled by a teenager. Catherine broke

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<v Speaker 1>down in sobs. As he left, the archbishop quietly whispered

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<v Speaker 1>to the guards that they should remove any items from

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<v Speaker 1>her chamber that might allow her to commit suicide. Katherine

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<v Speaker 1>Howard and King Henry the Eighth had only been married

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<v Speaker 1>about sixteen months, and now with her past revealed, she

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<v Speaker 1>knew that her time as queen was over. With Henry's history,

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<v Speaker 1>she would be lucky to make it out with her

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<v Speaker 1>head for a little while, it seemed as though she might.

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<v Speaker 1>After her interrogation, Catherine was sent away from court to

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<v Speaker 1>Sion Abbey. It seemed as though the King was going

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<v Speaker 1>to show her mercy. Her arrangement with Francis Dirham could

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<v Speaker 1>technically qualify as a pre contract, which would mean her

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<v Speaker 1>marriage to Henry was invalid, getting him off the hook easy.

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<v Speaker 1>Katherine would have to give up her jewels and possessions

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<v Speaker 1>and live in exile, away from court for the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of her life. It looked as though that was what

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<v Speaker 1>was going to happen. It looked that way for exactly

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<v Speaker 1>three days. Three days after Katherine Howard's interrogation, Francis Dirham revealed,

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<v Speaker 1>under torture something else about Queen Catherine, something that the

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<v Speaker 1>King wouldn't be able to look upon with mercy. From

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<v Speaker 1>that moment, Catherine's fate was sealed. I'm danishwartz and this

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<v Speaker 1>is noble blood. When Catherine Howard, motherless girl, was eight

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<v Speaker 1>years old, she was sent to live at the estate

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<v Speaker 1>of her father's stepmother, her stepgrandmother, the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk.

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<v Speaker 1>The Dowager Duchess seemed to collect wards she had about

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<v Speaker 1>a dozen or so girls under her care, mostly the

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<v Speaker 1>daughters of poorer relations, and the idea was that under

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<v Speaker 1>the dowager Duchess's supervision, the girls would learn the skills

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<v Speaker 1>of court and aristocracy, although in effect supervision was a

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<v Speaker 1>little lax. The year Katherine Howard turned thirteen, two major

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<v Speaker 1>things happened. First, her cousin Anne Boleyn was beheaded for

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<v Speaker 1>adultery during her marriage to King Henry the eighth. Second,

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<v Speaker 1>Katherine Howard began a flirtation with her music teacher, a

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<v Speaker 1>man named Henry Mannox, who had been hired to teach

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<v Speaker 1>the girls how to play the Virginals. Mannox was exactly

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<v Speaker 1>the type of man that Catherine would fall in love

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<v Speaker 1>with for the rest of her life. He was every

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<v Speaker 1>stereotype of a poetic musician, moody, romantic, wildly passionate. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how old Mannix was at the time. He

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<v Speaker 1>could have been a teenager himself somewhere around nineteen, or

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<v Speaker 1>he could have been approaching forty. Either way, it was

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<v Speaker 1>not a relationship that an extremely young aristocratic men should

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<v Speaker 1>have been engaged in, especially not in a world in

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<v Speaker 1>which a woman's sexual purity was her primary currency. Catherine,

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<v Speaker 1>for her part, refused to let Mannox go all the way.

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<v Speaker 1>The relationship occurred mainly in the hiding spots around the

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<v Speaker 1>estate grounds, where they could kiss each other and whisper

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<v Speaker 1>words of love into each other's ears. That's where the

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<v Speaker 1>Dowager Duchess found them kissing in an alcove near the chapel.

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<v Speaker 1>The Dowager Duchess slapped Katherine twice and forbade the couple

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<v Speaker 1>from ever seeing each other again. The warning didn't deter

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<v Speaker 1>the pair. I don't know why you're still seeing her,

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<v Speaker 1>said Mary Lassells one day to Mannix. Mary Lassell's was

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<v Speaker 1>another young woman under the Dowager Duchess's lack supervision, but

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<v Speaker 1>lower ranked than Katherine, and so she felt a sort

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<v Speaker 1>of kinship with Mannox, who was more or less irvant.

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<v Speaker 1>She's much too high born for you, Mary said, she's

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<v Speaker 1>never going to marry you. You know that, right. Mannax

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<v Speaker 1>sneered and curled his lip. He took a step closer

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<v Speaker 1>to Mary Lassells and told her that he already knew

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine Howard by her private parts. And he said, she's

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<v Speaker 1>already promised her maidenhead to me. For Mary Lassell's word

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<v Speaker 1>got around and back to Katherine Howard what Mannox had said.

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<v Speaker 1>She ended their relationship the next day in the estates orchard.

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<v Speaker 1>Mannox pleaded that he was just so far in love

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<v Speaker 1>with her that he didn't know what he said, but

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine didn't care. Besides, Mary Lassell's had been right. She

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<v Speaker 1>was too high born for him. That's why teenage Catherine

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<v Speaker 1>felt as though she was a much better fit for

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<v Speaker 1>Francis Dearham, the Dowager, just as Secretary Darrem already had

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<v Speaker 1>a reputation and seduced a good percentage of the women

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<v Speaker 1>at the estate, including Katherine's Owes secretary. In fact, it

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<v Speaker 1>was she who recommended dear Him to Catherine, praising him

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<v Speaker 1>so highly that Katherine couldn't help but be intrigued. It

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<v Speaker 1>was the type of whirlwind passion that only a teenager

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<v Speaker 1>can have. Within months, they were calling each other husband

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<v Speaker 1>and wife, planning for an imaginary future together. They sent

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<v Speaker 1>each other gifts and wrote each other letters. Katherine, still

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<v Speaker 1>under her grandmother's custody, didn't have the income to buy

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<v Speaker 1>the dresses she wanted, and so Dearham bought her beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>fabric and taught her which dressmaker to go to. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>pay you back, I promise, Catherine said. Dearham just smiled.

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<v Speaker 1>Though the girls the dowager Duchess's estate slept in a

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<v Speaker 1>single room, the maiden's chamber, and though the girls usually

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<v Speaker 1>slept to a bed, there were still ways for girls

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<v Speaker 1>to entertain male visitors. The maidens chamber was locked every night,

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<v Speaker 1>to preserve the girl's virtue, of course, but Catherine had

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<v Speaker 1>an answer for that. While her friends giggled and encouraged her,

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<v Speaker 1>Katherine snuck into the dowager Duchess's chamber while her stepgrandmother

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<v Speaker 1>was sleeping and stole the key, quickly making a copy

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<v Speaker 1>and replacing it. Men snuck into the room. Then Katherine

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't the only one of the wards who had an

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<v Speaker 1>illicit boyfriend. The men brought with them wine and strawberries

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<v Speaker 1>and apples, and the boys and girls would laugh and

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<v Speaker 1>talk or sneak off to beds together until one or

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<v Speaker 1>two in the morning. We can be almost certain that

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<v Speaker 1>Dearman Katherine, who by this point had been spending every

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<v Speaker 1>moment together, were having sex. Dearham privately assured his friends

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<v Speaker 1>that he knew enough to ensure that Katherine wouldn't get pregnant. Meanwhile, Mannox,

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<v Speaker 1>bitter music teacher, was furious at Katherine and her new paramour.

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<v Speaker 1>In his neatest script, he wrote a letter to the

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<v Speaker 1>Dowager Duchess informing her that if she were to come

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<v Speaker 1>to the maidens chamber an hour or so after she

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<v Speaker 1>normally went to bed, she would see something she wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>like very much, involving a certain one of her secretaries.

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<v Speaker 1>Mannix anonymously left the note in the Dowager Duchess's pew

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<v Speaker 1>in the chapel so she would find it. That night,

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<v Speaker 1>she stormed into the maidens chamber to catch not Katherine

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<v Speaker 1>and Dearham, but a man named Hastings, another one of

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<v Speaker 1>her secretaries, who had already been caught once flirting with

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<v Speaker 1>one of the other girls. Katherine was in the here,

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<v Speaker 1>but Catherine knew who the note had been written by,

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<v Speaker 1>and she knew that it had been intended for her,

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<v Speaker 1>and Dearham agreed. Puffing out his chest, Dearham confronted Mannix,

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<v Speaker 1>telling him that his behavior made it appear as though

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<v Speaker 1>he never loved Catherine at all. Mannix called him a cad.

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<v Speaker 1>Two jealous men dressing each other down over their secret

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<v Speaker 1>love affair. It was like a scene from Gossip Girl,

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<v Speaker 1>half a millennium before its time. People knew that Derrim

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<v Speaker 1>and Catherine were having an affair people other than the

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<v Speaker 1>Dowager Duchess. But people also liked Catherine. She was a

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<v Speaker 1>vivacious and funny and entertaining Plus she was high ranking.

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<v Speaker 1>They had no reason to rad her out or risk

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<v Speaker 1>incurring the wrath of her grandmother for being the ones

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<v Speaker 1>to deliver the bad news. But like almost all wildly

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<v Speaker 1>passionate love affairs, the one between Derehm and Catherine became

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<v Speaker 1>less exciting. Catherine stopped being entranced by Dearham when she

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<v Speaker 1>was presented with a new, gilded opportunity. Her family connections

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<v Speaker 1>had secured her a position as a lady in waiting

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<v Speaker 1>for the new Queen Anne of Cleaves, who would be

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<v Speaker 1>arriving to England later that fall. In the same apple

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<v Speaker 1>orchard where she had broken up with Mannix, Katherine Howard

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<v Speaker 1>told Dearham that she was leaving. His version of the

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<v Speaker 1>story involves her weeping with sorrow. Her version is her

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<v Speaker 1>losing her temper at his insistence that they stayed together.

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<v Speaker 1>It's possible both of her. She cried, and she lost

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<v Speaker 1>her temper, and she left Dereham, thinking that there was

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<v Speaker 1>still a chance they were going to end up together.

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<v Speaker 1>But there wasn't. She was just going. Katherine had grown

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<v Speaker 1>up thinking her house in Lambeth was grand. She had

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<v Speaker 1>no idea what would await her at the court of

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<v Speaker 1>Henry the Eighth. So many people, so many dances, so

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<v Speaker 1>much food, so much to learn For the confident girl

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<v Speaker 1>who had only ever been the queen b of the

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<v Speaker 1>band of teenagers in the maidens Chamber, she was paid

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<v Speaker 1>ten pounds a year. With her first paycheck, she sent

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<v Speaker 1>money back to dear Him to repay him for the

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<v Speaker 1>fabric he had bought her. The new Queen of England,

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<v Speaker 1>Anne of Cleave's, wasn't set to arrive for another few months,

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<v Speaker 1>so in the meantime the new ladies got to know

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<v Speaker 1>each other and got to know the men of court.

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<v Speaker 1>For Catherine, that meant being instantly drawn to a gentleman

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<v Speaker 1>named Thomas Culpepper. Culpepper was tall and athletic, the type

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<v Speaker 1>of man that Henry kept around him because he made

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<v Speaker 1>him feel young again. Culpepper, for his part, had an

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly checkered past. There was a rumor about him being

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<v Speaker 1>convicted of raping a woman in the village and murdering

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<v Speaker 1>a villager who saw them, only to get off without

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<v Speaker 1>consequences with a royal pardon. Catherine knew none of that.

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<v Speaker 1>She only saw the handsome, charismatic man that women seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to gravitate towards, like hummingbirds to a flower, and Culpepper

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<v Speaker 1>saw Catherine, a stunningly gorgeous girl of sixteen. Every contemporary

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<v Speaker 1>description of Katherine Howard has that in common, the understanding

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<v Speaker 1>that Catherine was uniquely pretty. For a few weeks, Culpepper

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<v Speaker 1>and Catherine engaged in a typical court flirtation. Catherine would

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<v Speaker 1>report back to her fellow ladies in waiting, giggling, helping

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<v Speaker 1>to decipher everything that Culpepper had said to her that day.

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine knew that her virtue at court would be essential

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<v Speaker 1>in ensuring that she make an advantageous marriage, and so

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<v Speaker 1>when Culpepper started making sexual overtures expecting her to come

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<v Speaker 1>to bed, she declined, even as he professed his courtly love.

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<v Speaker 1>If he loved her, Catherine believed he would understand. But

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<v Speaker 1>Culpepper wasn't a man accustomed to sexual rejection or even delay.

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 1>With Catherine's refusal, he shrugged and set his sights upon

0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 1>a new girl. It was Catherine Howard's first time getting

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>her heart broken. The other ladies in waiting saw her

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>spend days crying and ripping up his letters. Luckily, Catherine

0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.359
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have to wallow too long in heartbreak. Almost immediately

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>after Anne of Cleave's arrived in England, Henry the eighth

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.000
<v Speaker 1>decided that he didn't care for her and set about

0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>trying to arrange an end to their arranged marriage. In

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the meantime, the king began doting on his new brides,

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:04.679
<v Speaker 1>very pretty, very young lady in waiting, Katherine Howard. He

0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>sent gifts and gave her land everyone saw, including Anne

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 1>of Cleaves, but she hoped it was just an affair.

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't. Henry secured the annulment from Anne of Cleaves

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 1>within a few months and married Catherine Howard so quickly

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.360
<v Speaker 1>afterward that people assumed that she must be secretly pregnant.

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 1>In fact, Henry was just absolutely besotted with his new bride,

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 1>who was just sixteen or seventeen years old. Henry was fifty.

0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 1>They were married the very same day that Henry's former minister,

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:46.679
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Cromwell, was executed for securing the disastrous marriage to

0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Anne of Cleaves. The middle aged Henry was so amorous

0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 1>to Catherine Howard that it almost embarrassed the rest of court.

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 1>He didn't take his hands off of her in public,

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 1>caressing her almost constantly, to the point where ambassadors noted

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.920
<v Speaker 1>that he had never been this publicly affectionate with any

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.400
<v Speaker 1>of his wives to this extent before. Of course, Henry

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 1>believed that his young bride was a virgin and that

0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 1>he was the only man she had ever laid with.

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Catherine was so young and so beautiful that she made

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Henry feel as though he were back in his prime,

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.360
<v Speaker 1>even as it became exceedingly obvious that he was not.

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Pain in his legs from his long troublesome ulcers kept

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 1>getting worse. Henry had difficulty with impotence in the bedroom,

0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 1>even as he made his attraction to Catherine increasingly obvious

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:49.640
<v Speaker 1>outside the bedroom. Henry's doctors advised him to spend time

0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 1>away from his new bride so that he could recuperate.

0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, they put him on a weight loss

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 1>regiment and wrapped his injured leg in boiled olive, lee

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:05.639
<v Speaker 1>eaves and murder. Henry's ill health and generally mercurial nature,

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 1>combined with his shame at his inability to perform in

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.720
<v Speaker 1>the bedroom, meant that he spent most nights away from Catherine.

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 1>A year into their marriage, Catherine had no pregnancy to

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 1>show for it. Catherine knew full well what happened to

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 1>queens who didn't give Henry sons. As her relationship with

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>the King continued to strain, Catherine began to shut herself away,

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.960
<v Speaker 1>unhappy and anxious, refusing to go to dances. Uncertain of

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 1>her future position. That summer strain or not, Katherine was

0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.439
<v Speaker 1>to accompany Henry on the Northern Progress, a show of

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>force and majesty to the rebellious northern parts of the country. Catherine,

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 1>as the beautiful young queen, was an essential prop for

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the outing, to make Henry look all the more vital

0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.600
<v Speaker 1>and powerful with her at side. But Catherine took ill

0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:07.359
<v Speaker 1>on the journey, spending days and nights alone in her room.

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 1>When the King sent a servant to her chamber one night,

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 1>he found it bolted. The queen's ladies fretted about her listlessness,

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>but they also whispered about the way she gazed down

0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 1>from her window at Thomas Culpepper, the young handsome man

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.920
<v Speaker 1>in the King's entourage, who had caught her eye from

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 1>the moment that she had arrived at court. The way

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 1>she looked at him with her hand cupped in her palm,

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.199
<v Speaker 1>it was almost like love. When the trip to the

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.480
<v Speaker 1>north of the country ended and they all returned to

0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.639
<v Speaker 1>Hampton Court on October nine, Henry gave a speech giving

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 1>hearty thanks for his good life with Catherine and his

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 1>trust in their happy future together. The very next day,

0:20:54.320 --> 0:21:02.439
<v Speaker 1>everything would fall apart. Do you remember Mary Lassell's the

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 1>girl from Catherine's time with the Dowager Duchess Away from court,

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Mary Lassell's brother John was reprimanding her for not being

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 1>able to secure a position in the new Queen's household.

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Didn't you two know each other? John scoffed at her.

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Mary Lassell's bristled at her brother's derision. Yes, I knew her.

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't even want to be in that household under

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 1>a queen like her. I remember how she behaved back

0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 1>when she was in Lambeth. John paused and asked for

0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:41.679
<v Speaker 1>more details. Mary Lassell's told him about Henry Mannox and

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Francis Dearham. Everybody knows the Queen wasn't so pure when

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.159
<v Speaker 1>she married the King, Mary said. John stopped in his

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.399
<v Speaker 1>tracks and demanded that Mary tell him everything she knew,

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.640
<v Speaker 1>and John Lassell's, a devout Protestant reformer, went to tell

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the arch Bishop, Thomas Cranmer. Cranmer was in a delicate position.

0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.159
<v Speaker 1>On one hand, this was just a rumor and he

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.399
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to incur Henry's wrath over nothing. But on

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.959
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, if he didn't tell Henry and somehow

0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:21.600
<v Speaker 1>word got out, he would be responsible. And so on

0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:27.560
<v Speaker 1>November two, in incredibly measured words, Granmar put the delicate

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.439
<v Speaker 1>claims in writing in a letter and left it on

0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Henry's seat in Chapel. Henry was, of course outraged. He

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't believe the rumors for a moment, but still he

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 1>demanded a full investigation. Man X and Dearham both confessed.

0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 1>On November six, without telling Catherine Howard, Henry the Eighth

0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:57.400
<v Speaker 1>left Hampton Court and rode to Greenwich. She would never

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 1>see him again. Once Henry was done with a wife,

0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 1>you wanted her out of sight at Greenwich, Henry held

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 1>a midnight meeting that lasted for six hours, in which

0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 1>he and his ministers decided what to do. At one point,

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Henry broke down in tears. Why have I had such

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.399
<v Speaker 1>bad luck in meeting these ill conditioned women, he cried.

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 1>He grabbed a sword. Maybe I should just go and

0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 1>kill her myself. However much pleasure she had in her sins,

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 1>it won't be half as much as her torture in death,

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Henry's men subdued him. He really had been in love,

0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:46.640
<v Speaker 1>he thought, with his beautiful young fifth wife. The next day,

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Catherine knew something was a mess. No one had told

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:55.040
<v Speaker 1>her anything. The investigation had been completely secret, but Henry

0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.960
<v Speaker 1>was gone and had left no word about where he was.

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 1>She could scent something in the air. When her musicians

0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>started to play, she silenced them. It's no time for dancing,

0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:12.480
<v Speaker 1>she said. That night, she was brought before Thomas Granmar,

0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 1>where she confessed. Henry showed mercy enough that Catherine should

0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.720
<v Speaker 1>be spared death and a real imprisonment in favor of

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 1>a life of exile at Ccion House. But then a November,

0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:34.560
<v Speaker 1>under torture, Francis Dirham said something new. No, he promised

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.639
<v Speaker 1>he had never slept with the Queen while she was

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 1>married to the king, but everyone knew Thomas Culpepper did.

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Now there is no heart evidence to prove that Thomas

0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Culpepper and Catherine actually slept together. She went to the

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:57.000
<v Speaker 1>grave denying it, but soon details began to emerge. In

0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 1>the spring after her wedding, feeling distant from Henry and

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>lonely at court, Katherine and Thomas began exchanging love letters.

0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:12.240
<v Speaker 1>They sent little gifts back and forth. Their letters became

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:17.800
<v Speaker 1>more and more emotional and personal. I trust in you

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 1>that you will always be as you have promised me,

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Katherine wrote. She signed the letter yours as long as

0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:30.199
<v Speaker 1>life endures, and that summer Culpepper had been in the

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 1>large group of courtiers who accompanied Henry and Catherine on

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>the northern progress. Had she really been sick when she

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:43.480
<v Speaker 1>insisted on staying alone in her room? Ladies were interrogated.

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Jane Rochford confessed that at one of the stops, Culpepper

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:54.639
<v Speaker 1>used a secret door that led up backstairs directly to

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Queen Catherine's bed chamber. Other ladies were interrogated about whether

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:04.479
<v Speaker 1>Catherine and Culpepper we're having an affair. I don't know

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 1>for certain. One lady said, I am inclined to believe

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:15.240
<v Speaker 1>the queen, except except the Archbishop prompted, except the way

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>she looked at Culpepper from her window. I would have

0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 1>believed her if I hadn't seen the way she gazed

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 1>at him. Catherine had been in love, and she hadn't

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 1>been able to hide it. Dearham was hanged, quartered and disemboweled. Culpepper,

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 1>as a gentleman, was simply beheaded. Meanwhile, Catherine waited at

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Scion House, knowing her fate would be arriving swiftly. In January.

0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:54.760
<v Speaker 1>An act of attainder made it treason for a woman

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 1>to marry the king without plain declaration of having previously

0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 1>lived in chase life. That was it. The final piece

0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:07.120
<v Speaker 1>had been put into place to ensure that Catherine would

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.560
<v Speaker 1>receive the death that Henry wanted for her. Anne Boleyn

0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.440
<v Speaker 1>had been taken to the Tower of London under full

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:18.680
<v Speaker 1>light of day. Catherine had the privilege of arriving at night,

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 1>although when the guards arrived at Zion House to take

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 1>her to the barge, she collapsed in a fit of panic.

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Lucky it was dark during her boat ride down the

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Thames or else she would have seen the rotting heads

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:37.959
<v Speaker 1>of Francis Dirham and Thomas Culpepper leering down at her

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 1>from London Bridge. That night, locked in the Tower of London,

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 1>she heard the gates playing shut and the locks on

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:52.159
<v Speaker 1>the doors turn. She was told that she would be

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 1>killed two days later. After her final confession, Catherine made

0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 1>a request that the guard take a back. Couldn't refuse.

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>She asked for the block that she would be be

0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:09.040
<v Speaker 1>headed on to be brought to her chamber so that

0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:13.640
<v Speaker 1>she could practice. Catherine wanted to at least die with

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:18.399
<v Speaker 1>grace or as a little humiliation as possible, and she

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.320
<v Speaker 1>had heard stories of botched executions, including the execution of

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Cromwell, which it took four, five, even as many

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 1>as ten strokes for the head to fully come off,

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and so for hours on her last day on earth,

0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Catherine Howard kneeled in her cell at the Tower of

0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:45.240
<v Speaker 1>London and raised and lowered the pretty neck on the

0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 1>black block. When the time finally came and she was

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 1>escorted to the very spot where her cousin Anne Boleyn

0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 1>had died only six years earlier, Catherine knew exactly what

0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:03.360
<v Speaker 1>to do MH. So she shook. She lowered her head

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>into the valley of the block with well practiced ease,

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:11.200
<v Speaker 1>and the executioner took her head off with a single blow.

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>She had gone from orphan to lady to queen. Two

0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:22.040
<v Speaker 1>dead in two years. Katherine Howard hadn't yet reached her

0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty one birthday. That's the very short, tragic life of

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Catherine Howard. Stick around after a brief sponsor break to

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 1>hear a little bit more about the consequences of the

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 1>investigation of Catherine's infidelity. Dearham Culpepper, Jane Rockford, and of

0:29:56.320 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 1>course Katherine lost their lives in the aftermath of the

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>investigation of Catherine's affairs, But there are two ladies whose

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 1>fates fascinate me. During the course of the investigation, two

0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>of Catherine's ladies were caught gossiping idly about the king.

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>What kind of man is this king? I mean, how

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:21.480
<v Speaker 1>many wives really have? The two women were jailed for

0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 1>their words, which just goes to show. If I had

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>been alive in Tudor, England, with the way that I

0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:31.720
<v Speaker 1>talked casually to my friends about my research for this podcast,

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 1>things would not have ended well for me. I also

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:39.400
<v Speaker 1>want to offer a quick note about Catherine Howard's age

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and her sexual activity. It's troubling it isn't quite possible

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 1>to apply our modern understanding of the age of consent

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 1>onto the behavior of historical figures in the sixteenth century.

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Five years ago, a girl was considered a woman as

0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 1>soon as she began having her period, and a teenager

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.000
<v Speaker 1>marrying a man twice or even three times her age,

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:07.040
<v Speaker 1>far from being seen as an active abuse or pedophilia,

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 1>was unfortunately incredibly common. Still, it's important to understand that

0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 1>these are real people. Katherine was a teenager, and her

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:24.240
<v Speaker 1>decision making and experiences were those of someone incredibly young. Personally,

0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 1>I find it most helpful not to make broad declarations

0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.320
<v Speaker 1>about Katherine as a villain or a victim, but just

0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.920
<v Speaker 1>to do my best to try to understand her with

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:42.720
<v Speaker 1>the most empathy I possibly can. Noble Blood is a

0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 1>production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from

0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Manky. The show was written and hosted by Danis

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Schwartz and produced by Aaron Mankey, Matt Frederick, Alex Williams,

0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 1>and Trevor Young. Noble Blood is on social media at

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Noble Blood tales, and you can learn more about the

0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:01.880
<v Speaker 1>show over at Noble blood Tails dot com. For more

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>M HM