Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene along
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Brownwitz Jailey. We bring you
Speaker 1: insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and international relations.
Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcast, sun Cloud, Bloomberg dot
Speaker 1: Com and of course on the Bloomberg terminal. Right now,
Speaker 1: we are thrilled to bring you, without question, this nation's
Speaker 1: expert on Amazon, Bradstone is written on Jeff Bezos. Bradstone
Speaker 1: knows the story better than anyone I know. Brad your
Speaker 1: thoughts on Mr Bezos into space frame his path in
Speaker 1: his life to this moment. Yeah, Hey, Tom, you know
Speaker 1: this is a story that started probably forty years ago
Speaker 1: when he spent his summers with his grandparents and their
Speaker 1: ranch in South Texas, and his grandfather had worked on
Speaker 1: the space program. Bezos got the space bug watching the
Speaker 1: Apollo Moon landings. He gave his his UH speech at
Speaker 1: his at his high school. He was a valedictorian about
Speaker 1: space travel, and really he's he's been consistent with the vision.
Speaker 1: That speech was all about opening up the space frontier,
Speaker 1: having humans living and working in space, and today is
Speaker 1: the first step on that journey. It's been a long path.
Speaker 1: He founded Blue Origin in two thousand. The company hasn't
Speaker 1: had a lot of success to show for it, but
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, they're working on orbital rockets and moon landers,
Speaker 1: often in competition with SpaceX. But today, even though it's
Speaker 1: a more modest suborbital flight, it's an important step for
Speaker 1: Bezos and for Blue Origin brand have tried to be
Speaker 1: transparent and balanced about the moment we're in right now
Speaker 1: because myself, Tom, others get a lot of criticism for
Speaker 1: countering an event like this. This is an event that
Speaker 1: is very, very divisive. Jeff Bezos has taken a lot
Speaker 1: of criticism about it. How has he confronted that issue
Speaker 1: as he makes these kind of steps forward. He's ignored it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he He's someone who probably has pretty
Speaker 1: thick skin over the years, being criticized for so many
Speaker 1: things at Amazon, some quite justifiably. But as Emily mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: there's kind of a palpable excitement here in in in
Speaker 1: West Texas. Right now, the criticism seems kind of distant. Um.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll return to it in the press conference
Speaker 1: later today, but Bezos is just consistent. He's got this
Speaker 1: long term vision. He kind of knows that not everyone's
Speaker 1: going to buy into it. But you know he's been
Speaker 1: right about these things before, particularly with Amazon, not saying
Speaker 1: he's right here. It seems kind of wacky, this idea
Speaker 1: of millions of humans working and living in space one day,
Speaker 1: generations from now. But you know he that's he believes
Speaker 1: in it. It's his Money's got two hundred billion dollars
Speaker 1: and this is what he wants to spend his money
Speaker 1: in his time doing now. Brad Blue Origin actually has
Speaker 1: two astronauts on staff, and the understanding among employees was
Speaker 1: that those astronauts would be the first to fly on
Speaker 1: the New Shepherd. Instead, Jeff Bezos seemed to surprise many
Speaker 1: people saying it would be him. In all your years
Speaker 1: reporting on Amazon, in all your years reporting on Bezos,
Speaker 1: did you ever think he'd be the first person to
Speaker 1: ride on his own rocket. Yeah, definitely not. I don't
Speaker 1: think a lot of Blue engineers and executives thought that
Speaker 1: he would be going first. As you say to NaSTA X,
Speaker 1: NASA astronauts are on staff. The idea was that they
Speaker 1: would go first and kind of test the customer experience.
Speaker 1: But in some ways that it's it's consistent. I mean,
Speaker 1: Bezos is all about bold moves. He uses the word adventure,
Speaker 1: swashbuckling adventure, and right, this is the greatest adventure that
Speaker 1: there is. And he's sending a signal here to his
Speaker 1: company into the world that he believes in the spacecraft,
Speaker 1: he believes in the mission, and he's willing to put
Speaker 1: himself at some small amount of risk to go see
Speaker 1: it to fruition. Now Bezos is doing this just a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks after stepping down as CEO of Amazon.
Speaker 1: He has said he could have done this as a
Speaker 1: CEO of Amazon. But but do you believe that? Do
Speaker 1: you buy that? Or do you think this was some
Speaker 1: part of some sort of coordinated timeline. He wanted to
Speaker 1: do this, but not while he was CEO. I mean,
Speaker 1: it does appear orchestrated, right that he would have announced
Speaker 1: his resignation s CEO back in what was a late
Speaker 1: January and then stepping aside in early July, and now
Speaker 1: a few weeks later going to space. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think if Blue Origin had ready New Shepherd two years
Speaker 1: ago when I was supposed to launch the fiftieth anniversary
Speaker 1: of the Apollo eleven moon landing. He probably would have
Speaker 1: gone as CEO. But like, it's just neater now, it's cleaner.
Speaker 1: You're not you don't have Amazon investors maybe worrying as much. So, No,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an accident. We have fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: away from the first human flight for Blue Origins New Shepherd.
Speaker 1: You can hear a round of applause from the headquarters
Speaker 1: of Blue Origin. You can see Jeff Bezos just inside
Speaker 1: the capsule. The final checks taken place, Tom, They're secured
Speaker 1: and their harnesses. We've had the final communications, the hatches
Speaker 1: closed as team on his fifteen. Yeah again, team ONUS fifteen.
Speaker 1: And you wonder about the sequencing uh, the sequencing year
Speaker 1: as well. What's interesting with the modern technology of liquid
Speaker 1: oxygen and liquid hydrogen, John, It is a shockingly simple system.
Speaker 1: It is radally simpler, cleaner, and better than what we
Speaker 1: were used two years ago. Remember the Saturn's they'd start
Speaker 1: flaming up ages before they take off. This is a
Speaker 1: piece of cake with a much, much less heavy payload
Speaker 1: with US now. Jennakavandi Sierra Space executive vice president, and
Speaker 1: she is a former NASA astronaut as well. Will these
Speaker 1: be astronauts. Astronaut Cavandi, Well, technically speaking, once you passed
Speaker 1: that sixty two mile mark, you will be in space
Speaker 1: and therefore have traveled in space, which is the definition
Speaker 1: of an astronaut, not necessarily a career astronaut, but an
Speaker 1: astronaut Nolla. What is so interesting year is the simplicity
Speaker 1: of the systems identify this experience versus our stereotype of
Speaker 1: Ron Howard's you know the right stuff and the rest
Speaker 1: of it a Pottle thirteen, all the back and forth
Speaker 1: of hundreds and hundreds of people. How do you experience
Speaker 1: this simplicity? Mr Bezos is invented. I think it's very elegant.
Speaker 1: You know, the more we learn, the more we learn
Speaker 1: what we need and what we don't need. Um. He
Speaker 1: has gone a very simplistic route. I think it's a
Speaker 1: wonderful achievement for someone who's essentially done this on his
Speaker 1: own because of his own desire to go on space,
Speaker 1: his own desire to see the Earth from that viewpoint. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think he will continue to do great things,
Speaker 1: bigger and better things, just like NASA did through the
Speaker 1: generation and the evolution of the rockets that were that
Speaker 1: came before this one, Jennet, I understand we will have
Speaker 1: the oldest and the youngest, both the oldest and the
Speaker 1: youngest ever into space. Can you walk me through the
Speaker 1: degree of training that these particular astronauts to be have
Speaker 1: experienced versus what would have been experienced ten twenty years
Speaker 1: ago for similar mission. Probably not all that different. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have your space dot that you have to learn
Speaker 1: how to operate if there are any emergencies. You have
Speaker 1: those kinds of equipment that you have to learn to do.
Speaker 1: An e grows from when you go up to the
Speaker 1: space you have to unbuckle and then blow it around
Speaker 1: without kicking each other in the head. Then you have
Speaker 1: to get back in your seat, which is probably one
Speaker 1: of the more trying things to do, and since you
Speaker 1: will only be there for a few minutes, and then
Speaker 1: get yourself in a spact position so that you can
Speaker 1: come back down on land without hurting anyone so uh.
Speaker 1: And then probably an emergency egress out of the castle
Speaker 1: once landing. Uh, once they have landed. So those kinds
Speaker 1: of things are what you practice. UM. Just in case
Speaker 1: something you know somewhere we're not there or something where
Speaker 1: to go wrong, you can you can help yourself get
Speaker 1: out of the vehicle. Johnny, just experiencing a brief hold
Speaker 1: here at team on as fifteen. How typical things like
Speaker 1: this to have a brief hold fifteen minutes out? So
Speaker 1: very very typical. I don't think there was ever a
Speaker 1: spaceflight that I was on that didn't have a hole
Speaker 1: at some point during the countdown. Uh, sometimes a built in,
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're unexpected. Um. It does kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: raise the tension inside the cockpit because you're excited and
Speaker 1: you want to go, and and there may be a
Speaker 1: delay and but it is. Um, it doesn't matter and
Speaker 1: the end, whenever you fly, it's all as to the commnity,
Speaker 1: I've got to get in a geek questionnaire because it's
Speaker 1: something we have not talked about as we've prepared for
Speaker 1: this launch today. Your PhD at Washington is an analytical
Speaker 1: chemistry and in materials science. How original are the materials
Speaker 1: of this Blue Origin rocket and capsule versus our stereotypes
Speaker 1: sitting in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they're all relatively similar. Every evolution, like I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you try to learn something new, use a
Speaker 1: better material, a better fuel less toxic fuels, less toxic materials.
Speaker 1: As as you well know, Jeff as all about the
Speaker 1: environment and keeping the planet healthy and making it a
Speaker 1: sacred place in a and longevity of the Earth is
Speaker 1: really paramount in his mind, so he wants to protect there.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure he's gone to every extent to try
Speaker 1: to use the least toxic materials possible. For audience worldwide
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg TV and radio and for our audience joining
Speaker 1: us over on Blinberg Quick Take. We've been on hold
Speaker 1: now for a little more than six minutes term a
Speaker 1: Team minus fifteen, just a brief hold that's lasted about
Speaker 1: six minutes. As we are White Blue Origins first human
Speaker 1: flight six minutes. We've been on hold at Team Honus fifteen.
Speaker 1: So we'll see. We'll have to see where this goes.
Speaker 1: Is astronaut tells us this is not unusual. Jennet Convandi,
Speaker 1: I've got to talk about the fresh air of your
Speaker 1: Missouri coming out of Carthage there in the University of
Speaker 1: Missouri and really funk to the south in Oklahoma. What
Speaker 1: is it about the Midwest aviation heritage that puts people
Speaker 1: like you into space? You know, I thought about that
Speaker 1: a lot. There are a lot of Midwesterners that love
Speaker 1: to go to space. I don't know. I think in
Speaker 1: part for me, at least, it was seeing the night
Speaker 1: sky from the Midwest. It's very beautiful. You can see
Speaker 1: all the stars, you can see the Milky Way, and
Speaker 1: it's just so majestic when you look at space from
Speaker 1: that vantage point. And I know from a very young
Speaker 1: age I would tell my dad that I wanted to
Speaker 1: go up there and see what would be like to
Speaker 1: be in space and look back at the Earth. So
Speaker 1: maybe it's that, And maybe it's just that, you know,
Speaker 1: there's not the other distractions that you have in a
Speaker 1: a more urban life. Um. You know, you have time
Speaker 1: to dream, you have time to look out there, you
Speaker 1: have time to think about exploring. So maybe a combination
Speaker 1: of all those things is it's what inspires as was
Speaker 1: Midwesterners and Dr Cavandy, thank you so much, greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 1: With cr Space or Executive Vice President of course NASA
Speaker 1: astronaut and former director of NASA's Glenn Research Center, we
Speaker 1: continue with one final discussion here on our moment in space,
Speaker 1: and that is the engineering of our many space programs.
Speaker 1: Daniel wood is expert at this director of Space Enabled
Speaker 1: Research Group at m I T Media Lab, who dovetails
Speaker 1: a lot of social efforts and social policy into grunt engineering.
Speaker 1: And I say that Danielle with immense, immense respect. There's
Speaker 1: that See Danielle in Apollo thirteen where they're gonna die
Speaker 1: and the three engineers are in mission control and they
Speaker 1: got the canister and they're gonna purify the oxygen or
Speaker 1: the astronauts are gonna die and they all pull out
Speaker 1: and sink their Coo Flanasser slide rules. We are so
Speaker 1: far removed from the slide rules of a busted Apollo mission.
Speaker 1: What is the technology forward that we will see from
Speaker 1: this private enterprise. It's wonderful to celebrate today. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy for Wali Funk and for somebody like her who's
Speaker 1: had too long road to this road to space. And
Speaker 1: we can think about the technology by asking, you know,
Speaker 1: what has been the road for all the companies. I
Speaker 1: was in college watching the Ansari X Prize. I want
Speaker 1: to appreciate Anisia and Sary who helped fund some of
Speaker 1: the early investments by private companies trying to demonstrate the
Speaker 1: ability to put a human into space. There's Abordall mission
Speaker 1: several times in a row, and we're seeing today with
Speaker 1: multiple launches by private companies. Is part of this long journey.
Speaker 1: Has also been a great coordination between government and private sector.
Speaker 1: I used to work for NASA, and NASA has within
Speaker 1: its congressional mandate something called the Space Act Agreement capability,
Speaker 1: meaning they can make agreement with organizations that are private
Speaker 1: sector organizations to share engineering knowledge and experience on space flight. Professor,
Speaker 1: Would you were a Kennedy Center Canna, I'm gonna. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: it's Cape Canaveral, professor, Just so you know, for some
Speaker 1: of us that are of a certain age, you were
Speaker 1: an intern air and I'm sure in your Orlando and
Speaker 1: your Central Florida you were grilled. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1: Explain now? Why are we doing this? In two thousand,
Speaker 1: everyone on Earth is benefiting from the investments that governments
Speaker 1: and the private sector are making in space. I travel
Speaker 1: all over the world and I engage with leaders of
Speaker 1: countries in Africa, Latin America, the Caribbean, Southeast Asia, countries
Speaker 1: on every continent are investing in space infrastructure and looking
Speaker 1: for ways for private companies to play a role in
Speaker 1: the space ecosystem because phrase brings us many benefits through
Speaker 1: observing the environment, understanding responding to climate change, managing our
Speaker 1: fragile coastlines, and also thinking about providing services. But even
Speaker 1: human spaceflight and micro gravity research helps us transfer benefits
Speaker 1: from space back to Earth. We understand better how to
Speaker 1: recycle water, how to recycle air, and make ecosystems that
Speaker 1: are clean, whether they are artificial, but also on Earth.
Speaker 1: And we also understand better how our bodies and plants
Speaker 1: and animals respond in an environment like a microgravity which
Speaker 1: explains the fundamental physics better. There's also the inspiration side.
Speaker 1: I am running a program at a m I T
Speaker 1: called Zero Robotics, and we're inviting middle school students from
Speaker 1: around the country to learn about space robotics and how
Speaker 1: to code. And one day we hope to do this
Speaker 1: with the collaboration of the space station and expose them
Speaker 1: to the space stations has be done in four in
Speaker 1: the past, and so these opportunities inspire the next generation
Speaker 1: of leaders as well. The great fear here is that
Speaker 1: will be a success for the elites. As you well know,
Speaker 1: we have two America's. How do we translate technological innovation,
Speaker 1: how do we translate as Bryn Jolson and McAfee talk
Speaker 1: about the race against the machine, how do we translate
Speaker 1: this technology over to the have nots, the technological have
Speaker 1: nots of America. I spent a lot of my time
Speaker 1: thinking about how we can do engineering design in a
Speaker 1: way that's equitable, advances environmental sustainability and economic justice. This
Speaker 1: means first asking who's involved, ensuring that we have increased
Speaker 1: diversity and access to technology. It also means designing these
Speaker 1: space systems in a way that directly serves the needs
Speaker 1: of those who experienced environmental injustice or long term discrimination.
Speaker 1: It also means listening to groups like indigenous communities that
Speaker 1: have a concerns cultural questions about what humans do in space,
Speaker 1: for example, thinking of the moon as a sacred place.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways we can use space technology
Speaker 1: to write services like disaster response, for example. And we
Speaker 1: can also then listen to those who usually don't have
Speaker 1: a strong chance to give their view on it what
Speaker 1: we do in space, because we're about to make some
Speaker 1: key decisions as a human race and how we treat
Speaker 1: the space environment, and I think we need more voices
Speaker 1: involved in this going forward. Daniel, just a final word
Speaker 1: from you. You mentioned the public private partnerships, and I
Speaker 1: think it's spot on to point that out. But for
Speaker 1: many of these efforts, they're increasingly privatized and the gangs
Speaker 1: will be shared with the shareholders, and I wonder your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that as we move away from strictly a
Speaker 1: government effort towards something much more highly privatized. I think
Speaker 1: it's so important that we continue to see government infrastructure
Speaker 1: allowing services like research opportunity for universities like UH internationally
Speaker 1: shared climate data that's important for everyone around the world.
Speaker 1: I hope that that becomes a private sorry public service
Speaker 1: that continues for years to come. There will also be
Speaker 1: private activities that kind of build on the government infrastructure.
Speaker 1: I think it remains to be seen whether that's going
Speaker 1: to be only open to the elite. It is possible
Speaker 1: for private companies to consider how they can have business
Speaker 1: models that provide further openness to those who have less
Speaker 1: access to lessibility to pay. This is a choice that
Speaker 1: they need to make, and I hope they do make it.
Speaker 1: Professor Wood, thank you so much for joining us for
Speaker 1: the m I T Media Outlab. Daniel Wood, Chad Anderson
Speaker 1: where this was a final thought here. He has been
Speaker 1: more than patient Space Capitals managing partner of the dovetail
Speaker 1: of all of this innovation, the NASA that we used
Speaker 1: to know and maybe the NASA that's still there with
Speaker 1: where we're moving forward. And you know, we've talked about
Speaker 1: the next steps of these people. But to John's point,
Speaker 1: does private enterprise and private competition get in the way
Speaker 1: of space success? Absolutely not, it's driving it forward. We
Speaker 1: started off in a place where we had never been
Speaker 1: to space. Then we launched a satellite, then we launched
Speaker 1: a human and then we landed on the Moon, and
Speaker 1: we've been regressing ever since. And it's only thanks to
Speaker 1: private efforts that we are now accelerating back into So
Speaker 1: what does to think of this event today? I think
Speaker 1: they think very highly of this event, and then they're
Speaker 1: very happy to see this success again. They're benefiting from
Speaker 1: this um. They are going to now be able to
Speaker 1: rely on low cost innovative partners UM, leveraging reusability and
Speaker 1: enabling them to do more with their limited budgets. I
Speaker 1: mean this, this hits on a few different notes, one
Speaker 1: the inspiration front um to the competition. It's driving innovation forward.
Speaker 1: And three, we wouldn't be we wouldn't have the capability
Speaker 1: that we have today without space technology. These guys in
Speaker 1: Texas cowboy hats. Teach anybody at jp L anything. I'm serious,
Speaker 1: I mean or it might not not the media and
Speaker 1: M I T, but M I T or an X,
Speaker 1: the legacy of Harold Atton and the rest of it.
Speaker 1: Can they teach the pros anything? It's a great question
Speaker 1: and one today, so you better go that D percent. Yes,
Speaker 1: and they learn from each other. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Speaker 1: So NASA has a lot of heritage and a lot
Speaker 1: of great you know, embedded expertise. They've been there and
Speaker 1: they've done that. The private sector is challenging a lot
Speaker 1: of the embedded assumptions and doing things in new ways,
Speaker 1: allowing them to do things more effectively and more cost effectively.
Speaker 1: Chat just quickly investable opportunities. Right now, let's close right there?
Speaker 1: Is this a single night and name opportunity? Say or
Speaker 1: do you want to apply the industry as a whole.
Speaker 1: We've gone from a very limited market ten years ago,
Speaker 1: handful of defense contractors on one side and the government
Speaker 1: on the other. There has now been two hundred billion
Speaker 1: dollars invested in over fifteen hundred unique space companies over
Speaker 1: the last ten years. This is a massive market opportunity.
Speaker 1: UM cuts across the infrastructure of the distribution and the
Speaker 1: applications of that satellite data UM in space technology stacks
Speaker 1: such as GPS, geospatial intelligence and communications. This is a
Speaker 1: massive market opportunity that we're just on the forefront of.
Speaker 1: I love asking that question and saying and invest It's home.
Speaker 1: Lean in, just lead in and give the pitch. Give
Speaker 1: the pitch. Chat on us in there with the pitch.
Speaker 1: Spice Capital Managing partner Chat. Thank you for being with
Speaker 1: us through they lost couple of ask. This is the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join us live weekdays
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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, and of course on the terminal. I'm
Speaker 1: Tom Keene and this is Bloomberg