WEBVTT - The Case of Emma Woods, Pt. 3 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.320 Stranger Rivals is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:09.559 and Mild from Aaron making for the best experience listen 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:10.320 with headphones. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.239 This episode includes discussion of violence and sexual abuse that 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.640 while they almost definitely did not actually happen, maybe disturbing 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:24.599 to some listeners. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:37.680 Surface readings register of but minimum requirements Tomorrow go below 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.760 and bring up the Young Gargon specimen. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.199 Now the decision depends on its reactions. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.720 Wait, Captain, I have found evidence of intelligent beings on 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:47.280 this planet. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.560 Of what concerned our foreign being? 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.400 Of none to you, thor, just as you were so 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:58.560 unconcerned when you destroyed the small creature so bravely. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.440 It was no more than an insects, but it had life, 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.120 and that life you had to take satisfy your endless 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.600 hunger for killing China. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:08.840 Both of you. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.160 Proceed, bring the gargain that will not be necessary. Captain. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:34.520 I'm Toby Ball and this is Strange Arrivals. Episode eight, 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:46.000 The Case of Emma Woods, Part three. In the past 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.120 two episodes, we looked at the experiences of a woman 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.800 going by the pseudonym Emma Woods, who worked with UFO 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:57.280 researcher David Jacobs to uncover memories of what he believed 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.600 to be alien abductions, violent alien abductions. We saw how 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.600 Jacobs allegedly used hypnotic regression in a manner that was 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:11.160 both scientifically and ethically unsound. He also seemed to create 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:15.000 a drama in the quote unquote real world, a drama 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:19.040 that involved Emma, two other research subjects, Elizabeth and Brian, 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:24.360 and hostile human alien hybrids. These hybrids apparently did not 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.000 want Jacobs to continue with his research and threatened him 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.200 with harm if he did. In an attempt to convince 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.840 these hybrids that he wasn't researching abductions, he hypnotically implanted 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.720 a suggestion to Emma that she had multiple personality disorder 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.359 and that was what he was researching. The idea was 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.880 that the hybrids would read Emma's mind, find that information, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.280 and be thrown off track. Jacobs even came up with 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.520 aliases for himself that he wanted Emma to use when 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:59.079 she contacted him, aliases like Aloha Norton, I'm not kidding 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.320 researcher and writer Jack Brewer. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:08.320 His premise was, you need to call me another name 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:13.600 and write in code to me, because when the hybrids 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.760 use their mind control on you. I want the hybrids 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:23.360 to think that Aloha Norton is an expert in multiple 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:28.840 personality disorder and that I am studying you because I 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.760 have diagnosed you with multiple personality disorder. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.320 It is frankly a weird, weird scenario and it doesn't 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.760 even have an internal logic. You see, at this time, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.040 Jacobs was very public about his abduction research. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.400 Emma pointed out to him, this doesn't even make sense. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:55.880 For instance, you publish books about studying this, and you're 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.840 on the lecture circuit talking about hybrids all the time. 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.600 So what was going on here? Did Jacobs really believe 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.840 that hybrids were here on Earth and that they wanted 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.920 to use violence to stop his research or was there 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.120 some other reason for Jacobs to concoct this odd drama. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.239 Emma Woods thinks it may simply have been a matter 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.640 of creating material for his next book. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.120 It may have been just a big exciting drama for 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.599 his book. He had told me that he was going 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.560 to write a book and it was going to feature Elizabeth, 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.520 Brian Reid's mother who uses the pseudonym Alison, and me 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.200 and the three of us. He had done a huge 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.920 amount of hypnosis sessions with I think he did something 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:48.000 like possibly forty five hypnosis sessions with Alison. He did 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.719 thirty seven with me, and he did well over one 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.760 hundred with Elizabeth. He very much wanted my hypnosis to 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.560 dovetail with elizabeths and he wanted me to be in 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.279 contact with her, and I initially refused because I was 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.040 worried that if I was in contact with her, it 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.000 would affect my hypnosis. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.720 At this point, Emma didn't know that her hypnotic regressions 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:17.840 were already being compromised. Jacobs was constantly introducing narratives to 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.680 her while she was under hypnosis. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.200 I didn't want her to know my identity, but eventually 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.400 I realized that he'd already told her my identity, and 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.400 then I just gave into the pressure. 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.880 This is not ethical research behavior. Jacobs should not have 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.120 been sharing subjects identities with each other, particularly if a 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.160 subject had specifically said that she didn't want her identity shared, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.680 but he did so anyway. Elizabeth claimed that hybrids were 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.640 controlling her body and sending threatening text messages to Jacobs 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:52.480 from her computer. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.680 When Elizabeth started having hybrid instant messaging, Jacobs told me 0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:59.880 that he was going on the run from the hybrids 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.640 because they were after him, and basically he just went 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.920 on holiday to Cape Cod, which he did every year 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:05.560 in August. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.479 So Jacobs decided to go on the run from the 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:13.200 hostile hybrids. He chose to hide out in Cape Cod, 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.920 where he normally vacationed. Anyway, if you were really trying 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.839 to hide, would you go to your annual vacation spot 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.800 or did he use his vacation as a way to 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.320 heighten the drama that he created. Regardless, Emma was becoming 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.760 skeptical of Elizabeth's claims that hybrids were coming to her 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.120 house and texting Jacobs from her computer, she suggested that 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.200 Jacobs take a very basic step to confirm that what 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.480 Elizabeth was telling him was true. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.279 I said to him at that point, well, maybe you 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.680 should ask Elizabeth to set up a webcam to make 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.120 sure that this is real, because it was so far 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.000 out that I started to have doubts about Elizabeth. And 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.719 then I felt guilty about that because of you know, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.920 she'd been sort of nice to me that I started 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.640 tipped out about who. And then he kind of said, well, 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.719 I can't ask her to do that, And then he 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.880 did ask her and she had all these excuses for 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:10.840 why she couldn't do. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:18.200 It again Jack Brewer, for reasons that only Elizabeth and 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:24.400 her creator might know. She never agreed to do that again. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.240 I think a more skeptical mindset would have a pretty 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.520 good idea why that might be. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.880 Elizabeth is an interesting player in this drama. She was 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:40.560 presumably undergoing a similar hypnotic regression experience with Jacob's as 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.680 Emma was. But then there's this strange twist in the 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.240 tail where she's actively originating emails that are supposedly being 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:49.640 composed by hybrids. 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.840 The what's interesting about this Elizabeth character is back when 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.200 Jeff and I were doing Katopia, we were reaching out 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.000 to everyone. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.119 This is researcher, writer, and podcaster Jeremy Vaney, who, along 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.920 with his podcast partner the late Jeff Ritzman, were among 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.960 the first to cover this story on their Peratopia podcast. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:16.400 We reached out to Elizabeth and she actually indicated that 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.440 she wasn't really thrilled with what was going on. She 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.200 didn't necessarily even believe it herself, but she didn't want 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:28.240 to speak publicly because she didn't want any repercussions from Jacobs. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.960 I got the idea essentially doing what he ended up 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.959 doing with Emma Woods, which I guess could hurt her 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.280 career somehow or her family maybe you know, that type 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.319 of thing. So she just didn't want that put on her. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.360 So I don't know how true that is, because I mean, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.400 if she's the one who's doing the texts to date 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.480 schif gods, then presumably she's in on the lie. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.680 So I started to realize that there was something really 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.720 wrong with Elizabeth story because of the hybrid I am, 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.080 and the threats and Jacob's being on the run, and 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.360 it just it was so ridiculous that started to break through. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.319 But I still thought that he believed it. At that point. 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.480 I was also still having hypnosis and remembering a lot 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:14.200 of similar things, so I wasn't fully breaking out of it, 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.040 and I wasn't fully understanding it, but I was at 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.800 that point realizing that things were not okay. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.360 In other words, despite doing hypnosis sessions where Jacobs was 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:30.080 reinforcing the real world drama involving Elizabeth, malicious hybrids and 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.600 threats against Jacobs, things had finally become so outlandish that 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.920 Emma began to doubt the narrative. Don't underestimate how difficult 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.040 this is to do. Once you have committed to a worldview, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.440 it can be very hard to make peace with the 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.880 idea that you might be wrong with the hypnotic reinforcement added, 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.160 Emma showed great resilience to move away from Jacobs and Elizabeth. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.280 He also wanted me to set up instant messengers so 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.720 that we could have three way instant messaging, and this 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.920 is after the hybrid instant messaging, and I think he 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.640 wanted me to be involved with that, and I just refused. 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.600 I just felt that there was even at that stage 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.400 when I was still being very intensively hypnotized and I 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.880 still wasn't really understanding, I could feel that I just 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.240 mustn't do that. I was starting to realize that things 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:24.160 were going really wrong. So I think possibly it was 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.320 just literally for his book. I think he also got 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.199 a lot of personal gratification from the sort of sexual 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.120 and violent aspects of it, so it may have been 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.680 my personal gratification as well. And other than that, I 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.040 don't know what his agenda would have been, but I 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.120 don't think he believed it. It took probably about eight months. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.080 I think I went through this process of starting to 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:50.439 realize that this was not. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:55.400 Okay again, Jeremy Vaney. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:02.240 Something about her hybrids, going after David and going after Emma. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.079 It just became too much. It became too much of 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.439 la an International Hybrid Spy and intrigue novella for her, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:09.960 I think, and she just wanted out. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.959 And then I eventually ended my association with him, and 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.200 he wanted to stay in contact with me, and he 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.600 was just sending me email saying, why aren't you talking 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.720 to me? I want, you know, Laudi blah. But I 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.000 felt like I had to kind of disengage from him 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.280 because I was a complete mess by the time I 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.640 ended it. I was in a really bad state and 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.400 it took me about three months to recover from the hypnosis. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.760 And I think he didn't want to let me go. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.440 This was in two thousand and seven, and while this 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.240 was the end of her sessions with David Jacobs, it 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.840 was not the end of the story. After the break, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:12:10.840 strange arrivals will return in a moment. In two thousand 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.480 and seven, Emma Woods ended her work with David Jacobs. 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.520 He did not want her to discontinue the sessions, but 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.480 that was not all. He also didn't want the story 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.360 of his research efforts with her to become public. In 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.760 two thousand and nine, Emma began listening to the recordings 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.840 of the hypnosis sessions that Jacobs had sent her. The 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.600 session about multiple personality disorder was the final straw. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.400 I listened to my hypnosis sessions and I heard the 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:43.440 MPD suggestions, and that shot me absolutely to the call, 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.880 and I decided I was going to make it known. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.240 I sent an email with that audio cliff attached to 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.440 just about everybody I could find in the UFO field, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.520 all the organizations, all the main known researchers, and that 0:12:58.640 --> 0:12:59.439 made it public. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:05.320 Finally, in January of twenty ten, an experiencer named Kim 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.120 Carlsberg published the first story about Emma's experience on her 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.400 blog out There Zone. Later that month, she published a 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.480 follow up post claiming she had heard through an intermediary 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.120 that Jacobs would sue anyone disclosing his work with Emma. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.440 Kim altered some of her blog entries as a result 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.320 of this warning. She went on in the same post 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.640 to write, if anything happens to me as far as 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.800 my physical or mental well being or my reputation in 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.680 the near future, please investigate who knows whether her fears 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.200 were realistic, but it does indicate the paranoia that was 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.959 swirling around the world of alien abductions and ufology at 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.280 the time. Vaney and Richman picked up the story from 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:54.080 Carlsberg's blog and saw firsthand Jacob's efforts at obstruction. In February, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:59.200 doctor Scott Lillienfeld, a psychology professor at Emory University, appeared 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.560 on the Paratope podcast to discuss hypnosis and its use 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.520 or misuse in UFO research. The Woods case, just recently 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.679 made public was a natural topic. Jacobs wanted to warn 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.880 Lillian Feld off, but in a bit of sitcom timing, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.800 contacted Lilianfeld at the very moment he was being interviewed 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.840 on the podcast. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.880 And we were actually running by one of the hypnosis 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.560 tapes by him that Jacobs had done with Emma Woods 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.360 and saying is this credible or what do you make 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.960 of this? And he actually told us during the interview 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.600 that Jacobs had found out we were interviewing him and 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.920 contacted him and said, hey, don't do the show. You 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.720 don't know all of what's going on, blah blah, you 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:43.520 know that sort of thing. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:49.760 Vaney was undeterred. Later in twenty ten, UFO magazine published 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:54.480 his article Aliens Versus Predator The Incredible Visitations at Emma Woods, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.080 which laid out in detail Emma's experience with Jacobs. Here too, 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.640 Jacob's tried to intervene, contacting publisher William Burns. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.520 Jacobs actually called Burns. I think he played me the 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.600 answering machine tape message from Jacobs, who is irate? Who 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.440 is threatening to SNeW And Bill Burns actually told me 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.240 he had a conversation with him where he said to him, 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:19.720 you know, David, what are you gonna do. You're gonna 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.360 walk into a court of law and you're gonna say 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.560 all of this is true. You know, tell the judge 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.960 about these alien hybrids, and you're gonna somehow say that 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.920 you're being defined. How do you think that's gonna go? 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.280 So naturally he didn't do that, but it just it 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.200 makes you wonder, like is this guy even smart? Like 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:38.400 is he delusional? 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.280 I wanted to interview David Jacobs for the podcast to 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.800 get his take on his work with Emma Woods, but 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.440 my attempts to reach him when unanswered. He did, however, 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.760 create a web page with the rebuttal to the charges 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.240 made by Emma and others about his conduct. It was 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.360 titled Emma Woods The Real Story, but was taken down 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.800 a few months before this episode was published and hasn't 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.960 as yet been restored. It touched on a number of 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.920 aspects of his relationship and work with Emma. I was 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.600 concerned that using short clips provided by Emma of what 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.320 were much longer hypnosis sessions might not be fair to Jacobs. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.120 Were there contexts that would make these brief moments more acceptable? 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.520 As I read his rebuttal, though, I quickly realized that 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.600 context was not the issue. The text on the website began. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.000 Since two thousand and seven, Emma Woods, a pseudonym, has 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:40.320 made unfounded public accusations against me for the past nine years. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.080 She has accused me of incompetence and negligence, criminally threatening 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.960 her family, intentionally imposing emotional distress and abuse upon her 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.960 in sexual perversion. These false charges are reflective of a 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.080 very disturbed person. After reviewing our communications, I have come 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.200 to realize that I did my very best for her 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.920 as far as I could, and it is clear that 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.920 I was much too kind to her and I should 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.800 have stopped working with her much earlier. This was a 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:06.560 major mistake. 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.960 I'm not going to go through this document point by point. 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.480 I do want to touch on some parts of it, though, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.680 and I think one of the things that I find 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.159 most telling about it is that his explanations exist in 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.199 the strange world that he co created with Emma and 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.400 other hypnosis subjects. It is the world of mass kidnappings, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.520 sexual violence committed by aliens and hybrids, and a master 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.399 plan of colonization. I guess he really had no choice 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.560 but to stick with the overall narrative, but Bill Burns 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.879 was right that it is hard to take it seriously 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.800 as an explanation for real world acts. 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.639 Emma's intense isolation gave her abductors an unusual amount of 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.160 free reign over her life, as they were not constrained 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.359 by time or circumstance. Emma was alone nearly all of 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.600 the time. Thus her abductions were extremely frequent and at 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.840 all hours of the day and night. Between September twenty seventh, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.640 two thousand and five and December ninth, two thousand and six, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.520 violence against her and threats against me increased. Security for 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.879 the abduction phenomenon increases enormously when abductees help hybrids who 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.560 might or might not be living here. By June two 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.680 thousand and six, her abductors were seriously attempting to stop 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.480 her from talking with me, rather than simply telling her 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.080 not to deal with me, which they did many times. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.280 They also engaged in increasingly physical and sexual violent behavior 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.400 against her when she continued to disobey. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.440 He tried to explain some of his more notorious practices, 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.840 again within the narrative of a hostile alien and hybrid incursion. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.680 He mentions a Betsy here, who's presumably another of his subjects. 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.160 The multiple personality disorder RUSE came up when I had 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.840 used a version of this for Betsy some months before 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.919 under an assumed name. I emailed her saying that I 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.760 was a multiple personality disorder researcher and she probably had 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.680 this condition. She left the message on her computer screen 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.440 in her head hybrids looked at it. When Emma's hybrids 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.480 were torturing her and threatening me, I decided to change direction. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.440 I would once again become a quote multiple personality disorder 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.439 researcher unquote, and expressed to her that this was the 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.400 condition that allowed her to think that she was being abducted. 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.639 When I brought up the MPD diagnosis. We both laughed 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.800 throughout the discussion. I had hoped that my fictional MPD 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.960 diagnosis would cause the hybrids to reevaluate me as a 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.919 harmless person who did not believe them as testimony. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.840 Here's a clip from the MPD diagnosis session. 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:34.600 Damn. 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:39.040 My opinion is that yours is a classic case and 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:44.920 that the only thing that will help you medication yours stories. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:49.800 I'm only interested in the fact that those stories, because 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:58.080 multiple personalities are all different. As you know that in 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:03.080 multiple personality disorder comes out. I think that we've been 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.080 dealing with the four personalities here, or as he is, 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.080 in fact Muscile personality disorder. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.720 The tape is a little difficult to understand, but he 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.960 is saying that he is only interested in her stories 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.440 because she has multiple personality disorder, and that he thinks 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.119 they are dealing with three or four separate personalities. But 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.160 the important thing is tone. Does it seem as though 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.520 this is a laughter filled conversation. Jacobs also tries to 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.040 make the request for Emma's unwatched panties seem more palatable. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.400 He claims they had talked several times about the benefits 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.480 of getting some type of seamen sample after a sexual 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:45.640 assault so that the DNA could be analyzed. The chastity 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.000 belt episode is also brushed off. Is merely an idea 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.239 that had worked with another client and that he had 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.840 suggested once and then dropped when it wasn't followed up on. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:21:00.000 And then there's this extraordinary passage about the increased hostility 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.320 towards abductees cooperating with Jacob's. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.680 As Emma's hybrids were making progress with her to get 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.679 to me, they had also become extraordinarily violent. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.600 Over his previous years of work, Jacob's claimed aliens and 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.120 hybrids had simply reprimanded abductees for their involvement with his research. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.640 But once the alien hybrid program transitioned to a new 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.600 phase of assimilation on Earth, the very human looking hybrids 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.600 whom I term hubrids, became even more wary and paranoid 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:36.720 of my involvement. Their security measures increased enormously, often especially 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:41.040 designated security hybrid now accompanying aductees and hubrids on many 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.920 abduction events. His job was simple to protect the hubrids 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.000 and to make sure that the abductees remained completely silent 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.879 about their experiences. This was the case with Emma. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.600 He writes the following about his decision to no longer 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:56.399 work with Emma. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.960 I received an email from Betsy's hybrid's warning me about 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.080 Emma's people and seeing that Emma's hybrids were very aggressive, 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.960 more aggressive than his. This was disturbing to me. It 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.800 provided me with the final impetus to break off from Emma. 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:13.679 I told them that I would no longer do hypnosis 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.199 with her. Events were out of my control. I was 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.560 bowing out and I could not work with her anymore. 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.200 So Emma's hybrids were too violent and scared Jacob's off, 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.919 leaving Emma, presumably to face them alone. So is he 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.880 delusional or does he feel that he has the standing 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.399 to put forward a narrative like this and have people 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:35.040 believe him? 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:42.200 Jack Brewer, one of the recordings that she published, indicated 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:47.680 that when she confronted him with this, that Jacob's threatened 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.520 her that if it came down to public credibility between 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.879 the two of them, that he would win and he 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.760 would be believed about what had been taking place over 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:04.159 her in a nutshell. She was the wrong person to 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:10.040 threaten to keep quiet, She obviously did not. Many people 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:15.040 continued to support David Jacobs, as he had predicted a 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:19.880 battle of reputations would favor him, and that was true 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:24.159 to a certain extent. Richard Dolan was among those that 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:30.399 tried to argue there were extenuating circumstances for Jacobs's behavior. 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.639 Richard Dolan is a prominent pro UFO author. 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:42.320 However, he never produced these extenuating circumstances or back that up, 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.520 and it seemed to me there was a collective effort 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.080 that Dolan was part of from the UFO community to 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:56.440 not want to change streams, like we've built a lot 0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:00.240 on Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs and we're just not 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:02.320 willing to change our mind about it. 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.680 Jeremy Vaney's efforts at exposing Jacob's misconduct with Emma also 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:12.080 met with hostility from the world of ufology. Remember, Vany 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.400 is not a professional skeptic. He, in fact, is an 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.879 experiencer who simply wants UFO research to be held to 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:19.960 a standard. 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.159 So we're in We're the in crowd. We're not like 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.719 some debunkers from outside of upology. This is actually happening 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.240 to us. But if this aspect of it were real, 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.919 we'd be all over it. Telling you that this that 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.119 we believe, this aspect of it is real, But no, 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.959 it goes the other way. In fact, we see what 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:41.160 looked to me to be potential crimes, if not crimes, 0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:46.040 certainly unethical behavior. And to expose that got us nothing 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.600 but black lilisted from all of his cronies, all of 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.800 his people in this cottage industry, which you can speak 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:56.640 out about UFOs and things like that, like you can 0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:00.240 dissect certain cases, but you're not allowed to sort of 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:03.520 speak truths to power about euthology itself. You're not allowed 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.800 to call into question all of you follow she itself. 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.119 That's a no no. And so to do that again 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:12.000