WEBVTT - #100 Jason Flom with Dr. Yusef Salaam 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.720 In twenty eighteen, I had the privilege of interviewing Yusuf 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.200 Salam well now doctor Yusuf Salam and doctor Salam now Sirs. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:10.560 I love the way that sounds on the board of 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.560 the Innocents Project with me. He's a father of ten children, 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.959 extraordinary and he is an accomplished and celebrated motivational speaker, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.840 an author, and a tremendous advocate for criminal justice reform. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:30.960 Most dramatically, the story of Yusuf Salam and the four 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.360 other wrongfully convicted boys because they were just children when 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.440 they were teenagers, young teenagers when they were wrongfully convicted, 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.200 then known as the Central Park Five, now known as 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.760 the Exonerated Five, were featured in the hit Netflix show 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.839 and the hit is not as strong enough here the 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.600 smash Netflix show when they see us sixteen Emmy Award 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:56.000 nominations and it's become a cultural phenomenon. It also has 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:02.520 resulted in actual consequences for the people who wrongfully prosecuted 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:07.080 and persecuted Yusef and the other kids. Both prosecutors have 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.520 faced some censure, not strong enough punishments in my view, 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.800 for what they did, but it really is a full 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:20.160 circle turnaround that couldn't possibly have been imagined back when 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.480 this terrible mischaracter justice was happening. Doctor Yoseph Salam's episode 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.920 is one of my favorites. I'm excited for you to 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:27.240 hear it. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.240 I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.520 even have a parking ticket. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.000 You know what I mean. I was brought up like 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.479 cops are the good guys. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.160 I didn't know what was going to happen, but I 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:47.319 do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything everything, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.920 This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.000 know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.760 with this. How is this possible? 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.120 I grew up trusting this is I've grew up believing 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.200 that every human beings should do the right thing. And 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.080 that's why, even though I knee I was dealing with 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.240 more rough people, I wasn't going to break anyone to 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.160 get me out of prison because I wouldn't live with 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:12.800 the fact that I break my way out of my 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.160 wife's death. I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.440 until I prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:20.680 to me. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.920 Our system since I've been out ten years, It's come 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.359 a little ways, but it's still broken. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.000 A totally little trust in humanity have towards happ into it. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.120 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm That's me 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:39.520 And today I'm actually a little bit starstruck or awe 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:44.800 struck because we have as our guest today Yusef Salaam, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.600 who is one of the most inspiring people I've ever 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.400 had the privilege to be around. And so Yusef, welcome 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:53.200 to the show. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.680 Oh thank you for having me. This is definitely my pleasure. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.440 And you know, I always say I'm happier here, but 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.799 I'm sorry you're here because you never should have gone 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.880 through this in the first place. But it's really it's 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.120 an incredible, incredible story, both in terms of the you know, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.960 the story itself and the total breakdown of the criminal 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:22.520 justice system that this case so perfectly highlights, but also 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:27.120 because of what you've how you've managed to turn it 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:33.040 into such an amazingly positive thing, and who you've become. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.080 So we'll get into that later though, but let's go 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.119 back in time, like in the movies when it gets 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.120 all foggy and we go back as this because this 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:44.560 goes back to the eighties, right, I mean, and I 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.520 lived in New York. This is a New York case. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.760 It's one of the most famous cases, the Central Park 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.920 geogra case, or one of the most infamous cases in 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.920 the history of New York City, which is, of course 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.080 the media capital of the world. And I lived in 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.640 New York back then, and it was it was crazy place. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.240 You were just a kid to get fifteen years old. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.000 Fifteen years old, unbelievable. 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:06.440 I was. 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.120 You know, I'm a little bit older than you, so 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.440 I was in my late twenties already, but I remember 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.120 it like it was yesterday. I mean, this case was 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:20.240 blasted everywhere. This was the crime wave, right, This was 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.480 a time when the only thing there was a lot 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.240 of crime in New York, but the hysteria around the 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:32.240 crime was was far exceeded the actual problem. And you know, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.080 you were a young guy growing up. And had you 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:43.000 prior to this horrible incident, had you had any dealings 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.200 with the law, had you ever been in trouble before? 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.360 No, So I think that, you know, when I look 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:53.560 at myself back then, being innocent, being you know, full 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:58.480 of promise and hope and dreams and aspirations. You know, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.520 My my so to speak, interaction with police officers or 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.120 authority figures was that we would see them in the 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.920 neighborhoods walking around and you know, these were back when 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.679 the cops actually walked the beat and knew the people's 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.400 names that they you know, policed and and so I 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:20.840 thought that police officers were very friendly, very very helpful. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:25.080 And you know, you supposed that with the backdrop of today, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.120 and it's like a horror scene when you look at 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.400 what happened, you know. But my my interaction was very 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.440 I didn't have I didn't have any interactions. And what 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.000 I knew about police officers was that they were they 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.720 were your friends, and if you needed help, you could 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.360 call on them to help you and they would come 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.800 and they would help you because they are public servants, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.880 did the protect and serve right. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.560 So you grew up like I did, thinking these are 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.160 the these are the good guys. A lot of us 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.440 when we were young boys, we all, you know, looked 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.159 up to every I looked at the most people in uniform. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.480 Everyone in uniform. I always thought be one. It's a 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.440 classic cliche. You grow up wanting to be a fireman 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.279 or a police officer. A lot of young kids, you know, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:12.880 play play act in those roles. But this crime. I 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.080 want to talk about this crime because you know, interestingly, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.400 the first guest we ever had on this podcast, and 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.280 now we're deep into our sixth season, right, So the 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.640 first guest we ever had was Raymond Santana, who did 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:29.920 an incredible interview. Just an amazing, amazing man he is, 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:34.320 and did a great job telling the story. So, you know, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.440 fans of the podcast would be familiar with the case 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.440 from that, but you have your own perspective on it, 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.000 you know, and there's a very and I say that 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.719 for a very specific set of reasons. But going back 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.080 to the case, this was a case where a woman 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:53.680 who was a Wall Street banker, a white, twenty eight 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.240 year old woman from the Upper East Side, was jogging 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.240 in Central Park and she was It was dusk right 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.640 when she was attacked, and she was brutally beaten. When 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.080 she was found. To give people some perspective, she seventy 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.960 five percent of the blood in her body was gone. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.280 Her tempered body temperature was eighty four degrees. I mean, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:15.880 she was as close to dead as you can be. 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.480 And she had been raped and beaten to within an 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.640 inch of her life, and this triggered everyone's worst fears, 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.000 right because it was, oh my god, this is a 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:31.360 you know, you know, an innocent woman whatever, white and 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.440 there was a whole racial aspect to it. And man, 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.240 when that happened, the news media went nuts and there 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.400 was a lot of pressure to solve this crime. Do 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.760 you want to add anything to that description? 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.280 You know it was it was definitely a witch hunts 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.920 and a frenzy of a witch hunt because when you 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.920 think about other people's progyptions, you know, folks look at 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.080 people from so to speak, the darker ants of society 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:00.160 as the worst of the worst. You know, I'm I'm 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.000 in the motivational speaking world now, and I'm told that 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.200 if you look at a person and an addressing person 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.720 as they should be, you raise the level of what 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.880 they could be as opposed to trying to be trying 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.760 to address them as their circumstances are. Not everybody who 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.280 may be in those same circumstances may be of that 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.640 particular element. And that's the thing that's unfortunate, because there 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:29.840 was this some speak, broad stroke brush you know, accusation. Uh, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.959 these people type of rhetoric and talk, and the notion 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.040 was that of course they did it because they're black 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.880 and brown, and so you know when they when they 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.559 when the woman was found, you know, towards the northern 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.160 northern end of Central Park. There was just this desire 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:55.000 for one to solve this crime, and to solve this 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.280 crime as quick as possible. And so I remember Mayor 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.480 coach back and saying something like people wanted to know 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.640 how the criminal justice system in New York City will work, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.400 and they're going to get a great opportunity as regards 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.240 this case, to see how this system works. We're going 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.600 to go after us with the full full arm of 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:22.520 the law, you know, and true to farms, despite wheels 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:28.079 of justice, mowed us down. But in their rush to judgment, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.439 they dropped the ball in the worst way and allowed 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:37.560 to reill criminals to continue to hurt, to maim, and 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.959 ultimately murder. His lash victim, who was a young, pregnant 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.720 Latina woman, he brandished his knife, came into her home. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.000 She said, hold on for one moment, and I put 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.880 my days in the next room. He allowed her to 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.880 do so. She put her children in the next room, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.959 and she locked the door and then he raped her 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.720 and stabbed her death, killing her and her unborn child. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.320 And that is I'm glad you brought that up because 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.600 it just it makes it make anybody sick to their stomach. 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.600 And you know that that scene that you're describing is 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.400 right out of a horror movie. And and it never 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:15.720 should have happened, and it never needed to happen because 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.280 in this case, and it's it's so tragically common you 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.840 when you have uh, this tunnel vision and this you know, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.920 this willful framing of innocent people. And in this case 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.880 it's even worse because they really knew who the guy was. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.360 I mean, first of all, they knew for and so 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.480 this woman never should have been killed. The other women 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.240 that he raped in the months following the you know, 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:45.120 your your arrest never never should have been raped. They 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.240 should have gone on and had their lives not destroyed 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.720 the way it were, those kids would still have a mother. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.000 This the consequences of the actions of the authorities in 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:02.360 this case goes so far beyond having this droid young lives, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.160 five young lives, and your families and how it affected 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.080 had on your families. You know, it's amazing. I've seen 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.319 the picture of your mom when you were finally exonerated, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.559 and the joy is so amazing. But but going back 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.080 to this, the crazy thing is they knew from the 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.560 beginning that it was a single perpetrator because this poor 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:26.040 woman was dragged into and the ground was wet, right, 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.480 and she was dragged into this area. You know, obviously 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.600 he wanted to take her to a secluded area. And 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.160 for people who are not from the city, who haven't 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.640 been to the city, Central Park is about three miles 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.040 long and about a mile wide. It's a big place. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.040 And she was jogging up in the northern section of 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:44.319 the park, so they knew that there was only one 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.640 set of footprints in the dewey grass. They knew that 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.320 there was only one There was only traces of one 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:55.680 person's bodily fluids. And as things progressed, even though they 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.600 had you guys, and they rested you guys, and we 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:02.199 know they interrogated you, each of you separately. And don't 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.840 want to hear about that, because Raymond's description of that 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.320 is truly terrifying what he went through for you know, 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:14.000 for hours on end, almost almost twenty four hours without 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.199 in Raymond's case, I know in your case, but without 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:22.000 food or water or a lawyer or an adult, and 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.480 ultimately ultimately everyone confess except you, which is amazing too. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.000 I mean, the fact that you, as a fifteen year 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.840 old kid, under the most intense pressure that anyone could 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.600 ever face, scared out of your mind, with your life 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.800 at stake, still maintained your innocence is I don't even 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.080 know where that kind of strength comes from. But okay, 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.800 so explain the situation. So you were brought at some point, 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.800 you were arrested, You were with your friends in the park. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.240 There was you know, it was a sort of chaotic 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.520 night in the park. It was you know, hot night whatever. 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.079 How did this hall come down? How did you come 0:12:58.080 --> 0:12:59.480 to be arrested? How did you have in the police station? 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:00.640 How did that after that? 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.800 So interestingly enough, if we can kind of show to speak, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.720 shift off a frame of reference to folks, to TV 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:14.480 shows like PSI, to NCIS, forensics, you know, these types 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.160 of things, what we get is an understanding that, just 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.880 like you said, they had information based on their skill 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:27.040 set as police officers and so forth. So let them know, okay, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.960 this is what happened. They could recreate the crime team 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.400 based on forensics alans, Okay, this happened first, this happened next. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.800 If we saw the blood over here and then here 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.000 it is here. We were in Central Parks never denied 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:43.320 being in Central Park, and all of the guys who 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.720 became known as the Central Park Five were absolute witnesses 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.960 to all of the mayhem that had gone on in 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.600 the park. With the exception of the rape of the Jagga. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.800 No one had no idea a woman was raped, didn't 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.160 know anything about it. And so here I am. At 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.320 the time, I was about six foot two inch two inches, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.640 very slim, had an outfit on that was a Skybrew 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:13.080 jacket with skyblw matching pants. My sky blue pants had 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.600 artwork on it. I'm actually a person who was going 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.400 to LaGuardia Music and Art for Arts, so I'm a 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.960 great graphic designer and I drew some stuff from my 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.000 pants that was just you know, how how people did 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.360 back then. But if we can think about these TV shows, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.680 what we know is that when they start going into 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.360 the community to try to recreate what happened and to 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.680 ask people what happened, what they do is they say, okay, 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:45.880 well who who's there? And folks in there, in there thinking, okay, 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.560 damn what it was a guy that was a tall guy. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.520 I remember there was a tall guy in the park 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.400 with a flat top. I was probably maybe the most 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.040 stand out ish looking for fellows because not only was 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.960 I tall and lanky, but what I had on almost 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.000 looked like I was wearing white in the life of 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.000 Central Park. And so, of course no one knew my name. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.640 None of us knew each other. I actually met Raymond 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.360 Santana and the other guys in prison. I only knew Corey. 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.720 Why But as things go further, as you can imagine, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.080 they go to the surrounding communities and start interrogating everyone. 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.320 One thing leads to another, and my name is mentioned, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.960 and I'm finding out that the police officers are looking 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.800 for me. And I say, well, you know what, Hey, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.840 I knew I didn't do anything wrong. I'm with Corey. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.480 Corey said, hey, I left the park almost right after 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.680 we went in. Well, let's sort of the cops and 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.360 to tell them what we saw and we'll be home 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:45.440 before our mom get that. 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.840 So when did you get picked up? Like the crime 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:53.040 happened at night right and the publicity happened immediately after 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.480 the crime, when did you become aware that the cops 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:56.000 were looking for you. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.160 I became aware of it. I went to school the 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:59.720 next day. I was actually one of the only children 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.760 that had school the next day. I went to school. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.760 The next day, came home from school and the blocks 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.080 was completely empty. It was the weirdest thing that you 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.480 can imagine if children didn't have school. Everybody be outside 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.200 riding skateboards, bikes, having fun, just hanging out. And I'm 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.080 looking around, I'm like, where's everybody at? And not only that, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.440 I see a whole bunch of unmarked police cars, and 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.000 so I'm like, man, that's just crazy stairs not thinking 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.800 anything up it, changed my clothes and come back downstairs 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:34.720 with my playoutfit con you know. And Corey's girlfriend at 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.120 the time comes up to me and says, hey, when 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.600 you see Corey, bring him to my house. I need 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.880 to show you all something. I said, sure, no problem, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:44.800 show Corey. A little while later, we go up to 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.239 his house, to his girlfriend's house, and she shows us 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.120 the news. She turns the news on him. At this point. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.480 It's maybe around for a stock or something like that, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.120 and of course they do the things breaking and it 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.000 was a sul shape. Women found it as part uh, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.880 so far and so on. I'm not understanding why she's 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.520 showing this to us. And then she looked at us 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.280 and says, hey, do you have anything to tell me? 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.080 And then looking at her like what's up, what's up? 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.879 What's going on? And she said, they're saying that this 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.199 was you guys, that you're all in the park last night, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.120 and this is what you all did. And I said, right, no, no, no, no, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.159 no no. And then she said, and they're looking for you, 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.320 and so I said, well, I'm going to go to 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.280 them and tell them what I saw. I know I 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.200 didn't do anything wrong. Corey said he didn't do anything wrong. 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.200 He didn't hurt nobody or do anything bad. He left 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:38.000 the park after entering, and we get picked up. As 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:43.720 a matter of fact, when we finally got a hold 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.959 of the offices that it's kind of strange and ironic 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.280 that I'm saying it that way, but I was looking 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.040 for them. When the officers finally came in contact with us, 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.359 they were in front of my door trying to convince 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.560 my thirteen year old brother to put his clothes on 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.000 and come down to the prison with them. He had 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.359 had not been in the park he didn't know what 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.479 was going on, and they were trying to convince him 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.000 to put his clothes on to come down to the 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:12.520 precinct to be questioned and interrogated. That would have ended disastrously. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.960 As you came back, I turned the corner to approach 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.840 my door and they're in front of my door talking 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.359 to my brother and they asked me who am? I 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.600 askaid you, soud Salami look at this document that they 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.320 had in their hands and said, this is one of 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.160 the guys you were looking for. They asked Corey who 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.560 was he? And he said, I'm Corey Wise. And they 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.639 looked at the paper and said, you're not on this paper, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.600 But do you want to come downtown with your buddy. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.719 You'll be right back, and you know, you know how 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.160 that story ends. Of course, Cory is sixteen years old 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.320 at the time. He ends up getting railroaded and convicted 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:49.240 and spending almost thirteen to fourteen years of the next 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.000 part of his life in prison or crime that we 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:53.360 all hannot committed. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.880 Wow, So he was actually the most random of them all. 0:18:58.080 --> 0:18:59.800 He just went down because he was trying to be 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.720 a boody d you basically right, And that was the 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.720 one that was the most worst decision he ever made. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.919 He made it for the right reason. So the process 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.480 that happened in the precincts, it was the Central Park 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.000 precinct that you were brought to, right. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.960 That was the initial precinct. And then they then they 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.359 you know, because Manhattan, Manhattan nor hoomicide squad steps and 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.480 they start they are the now then they are now 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.040 the officers that are interrogating. They're the ones that are saying, Okay, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.280 this is looking like it's going to be a homicide. 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.280 We need to figure this out and and solve this 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.960 crime and top quickly and appease the fears of the 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.080 public and let them know that we have the city 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.919 under control. We are in control, and we caught so 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:46.000 called perpetrators. 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.879 Yeah, so how did the interrogations go, Like what you 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:51.840 were brought in? What was the whole process? You're brought 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.760 to the precinct, you were with Corey. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.800 I was with Corey, and they immediately separated us, you know, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.520 and they started interrogating. And while they were asking me 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.080 the questions I had, I was very very forthcoming. I said, yeah, 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.400 this is what happened first, is what happened next? I'm 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.119 like you know, thinking, hey, I'm just going to go 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.639 in there and tell them what I saw, and like 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.080 I said, I'll be back home before my mom gets back. 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.000 And when I when I wrapped up the first time, 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.080 the guy said, okay, well what about the jagga? And 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.359 I'm like, what jogga? What are you talking about? And 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.920 he says, okay, well, let's start. Tell me what happened 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.800 again from the top I saw from the top of them, 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.359 and things began to intensify. And it began to intensify 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.919 in such a way that I started feeling afraid. And 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.199 then they you know, at some point they would leave 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.000 the room and come back in, and I never seen 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.080 at one point they left the room for a very 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.160 very long time. And at this point, hours were going by, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.400 and I'm feeling tired and I'm starting to doze off, 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:55.520 and I am immediately Joe toed for wait because I 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.960 hear Cory Wise yelling in the next room. Now, Cory 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.720 VI is just to give you a little his background 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:05.320 of Corey. Corey Wise was the U was, probably was 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.560 and still is the guy who you wanted to have 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.399 as a friend because you knew that he would have 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.199 your back. He wasn't gonna let nothing bad happen to you. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.040 He was gonna make sure that you know you were okay. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.240 And so to hear Corey, this person who had such 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:26.879 a big heart or fearful person, yelling and screaming okay, 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.200 I'll tell you, I'm I'm like, oh my goodness. They're 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.240 beating him up. I hear them smacking him around. I 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.080 hear them. I hate he's under this. He is in 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.400 a position that I have never heard him in before. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:47.160 And that immediately joke to me. A word sent chills 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:48.800 down my spine, and I'm like, oh my god, that's 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.040 they're gonna kill us. And at this point, I'm scared. 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.320 At this point, I'm still trying to maintain my innocence. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.840 I'm still trying to let them know what happened. And 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:02.280 now it's like a boxing match. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.119 Did at any point did you have a lawyer or 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.520 a guardian or a parent or anybody else in there 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:10.160 with you? 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.480 No. And this is one of the most interesting things. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:14.320 I didn't know my mother had came to the priest 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.879 and I didn't know she was there. It wasn't until 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.879