WEBVTT - 88: Merry Labyrinthmas 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to Night Call, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.520 It's two thirty six am in a maze filled with puppets, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:38.519 and you're listening to Night Call. Hello and welcome Tonight Call, 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.600 a podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. I 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.120 am in Los Angeles. I'm Tess Lynch and with the 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.919 art Emily Ashida and Molly Lambert and joining us this 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.280 week our very special guest, Lily Simon Sin Lily, Welcome 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.360 Tonight Call. Um. Lily is a friend of mine who 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.600 has been on I think every previous seration of UH, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.039 this podcast and my podcasts UM. She's an artist, and 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.880 she was also MTVS fanatic for Back, which we will 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.200 talk about more later. We're going to get into it 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.160 back in the news Um. And she's going to a 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.280 conference called the Submergence Confidence, so we'll also discuss that. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.440 And she's wearing a four local shirt which I just 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.920 noticed it's actually a dress when it becomes the shirt 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.520 in the winter Chameleon. We're going to talk about a 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.920 lot of puppet movies today. The theme of this week's 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.720 Night Call is eighties puppet movies for children. I think 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.760 our theme until the Holidays basically like we're going to 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.920 submerge ourselves in this and stuff. We were all just 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:49.600 we decided that Baby Yoda, the popularity, the rise and 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.360 fall of Baby Yoda, we're just cashing in on a 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:57.000 craze right now, like we're we're yeah, it's viral content. Um. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.960 But I think you made a really salient point, which 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.840 is that the reason people like Baby Yoda is because 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:07.640 it's a puppet. Right. Yeah, and apparently, um, I don't 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.920 remember if we talked about this before, but Werner Hertzog 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.040 claimed that he was the one who fought for Baby 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.680 Yoda to remain a puppet as opposed to c G. I. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:19.720 I still think there's some c G. I like he's 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.680 been juiced up with a little bit of it. But um, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.400 and and called the the I don't know if it 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.400 was Jon Favreau who we called a coward, but he 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.680 called somebody coward in in true Verner Hertzog fashion. But 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.840 this has been debunked because most things that Werner Hertzog 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:41.440 says can be debunked in somewhere or other. Um. So, yeah, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.120 the weird thing about Baby Yoda and and not not 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.000 to I feel like we could do an entire spinoff 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.800 podcast about Baby Yoda, but that um, you know, they 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.280 don't have toys for it, which feels like a huge 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.960 oversight and makes me think that they're not as smart 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.000 as they like. They seem like evil geniuses for creating 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.919 in this thing and for how popular it's become. But 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.720 there are no toys ready for Christmas for it, which 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.720 just feels like, what are you doing? People are crocheting 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.640 their own I know. Like it's also like if you 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.280 see there's a lot of cheepy Yoda things anyway that 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.359 just kind of looked like baby Yoda when you see them, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.280 like I saw Yoda Christmas ornaments, like oh, baby Yoda. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.200 Disney has its own kind of fun co pop esque 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.600 iterations of characters, called it Sum Sum. I only know 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.360 this because once I was in a waiting room somewhere 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.960 in the Disney channels. The ones you can stack on 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.680 each other. They're like these little toys. Okay. Our friend 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.880 Jamie Patterson went to a Disney convention on with a 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.040 dress that had all of them sewed on. It paid 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.080 for them. Yeah, it was like a dress made out 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.680 of them. They're like Disney beanie babies essentially, Wait you wait, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.880 hold up. Was that a decision that she made or 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.880 was she like paid to do She paid to do it. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.480 She was like the model for the Beanie Baby Disney 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.800 Soon Soon dress. That was a great gig. It was, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.400 to be honest, Yeah, I mean more dress is made 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.440 out of a million stuffed animal right. I think it 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:07.400 was very heavy, That's what she said. Actually be Yeah, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.320 we got a like sideways speaking of Star Wars creatures 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.120 and puppets. Um. We got a kind of like indirect 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:21.200 inquiry uh via Twitter from a listener or more specifically, 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:26.320 from a listener's boyfriend who had a theory about Nia Nubb. 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.280 Do you guys know about Niab? Didn't? Got asked? Um? 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:35.080 Nia Nub isn't return of the Jedi. He is a 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:41.680 slution male. Um he uh. And he looked at it 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.680 because you'll you'll only know when you see it. Well, so, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.120 so he's like Lando's co pilot when Lando goes in 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.599 to destroy the Second Death Star, um and nodding along, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:03.880 why space this way? He has some folds? Um, what happened? Well, okay, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.680 so when I first saw Star Wars when I was, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.880 however old, like seven years old, I just sort of 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.120 and I've talked about this, I think on blank check before. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.240 I kind of just implicitly, without even like questioning it, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.200 just understood that he was I thought he was Japanese UM. 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.640 I thought he was a Japanese alien, UM, and I 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.000 thought maybe I was related to him. I just like that, 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.800 like this is just like because his voice, the language 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.400 that he speaks, because he only he like speaks unsubtitled 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.800 in his alien language, and it sounds Asian in nature, 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.080 I guess uh. And there were some theories like it's 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.960 so the boyfriend of the listener who did eventually clarify 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.240 his theory was that he thought that he was supposed 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:49.120 to be a Vietnamese alien, which the name feels vietname 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:55.200 like fake Vietnamese Um. But apparently he was voiced by 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.360 a his name was Bill kept saying road chick. He 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:04.320 was a Kenyan student, and he spoke in his native 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:08.760 language for the role um, and he became like a 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:13.080 local celebrity in Kenya afterwards for being this alien and 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.960 Star Wars. Pretty like he'sising that more than one person 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.680 was like this alien. It's definitely Asia, and like specifically this, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.359 I have another Asian American friend who identifies deeply with 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:32.120 et see, like what is this is what happens when 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.800 you're like not representative, You're like, what can I be 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.719 in this movie? And I mean like, because I was 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.279 I rewatched um just in preparation for the new Star 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.520 Wars it's coming out. I rewatched Last Jedi this past week, 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.320 which does have like the first ever actual Asian character 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.599 and it like your main character in it. And it 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.640 was just sort of like hilarious to think that up 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:59.919 until then, the only like substantial Asian representation was like 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.760 Nea Nub And then in a very dark turn, uh, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.400 the what are they called Nemidians in the prequels, which 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.440 are like basically like super offensive Chinese characters like these 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.640 like kind of trade and a negotiation Aliens who are 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:24.640 just like bureaucrats and super evil and have like bad Twilight. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. This is the hardest I've 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.400 ever thought about any of it, you know. But I 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.800 was like, oh, the cantina is it in Mexico they 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:43.320 have cantinas, not a cantina cantina. But also it is 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.480 weird that it's like almost all white people and land 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.120 in space and yes, yeah, yeah, that's weird. And then 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.559 sometime and whatever timeline that the current trilogy is taking place, 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.520 and suddenly everything gets more diverse, Like suddenly space is 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.720 more differ is weirdly fifty years after a return of 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.080 the Jedi or however long it's supposed to be. I 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.800 think it's fifty years yeah. Um, anyway, this is just 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:12.600 more This is a Star Wars podcast in short, Um, 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.680 who's the it's a trap guy. He's Admiral Akbar. I've 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.200 come to love that one. Oh yeah, he's great, he's 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.000 a and there, um are there. I feel like there 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:28.360 are more like Calamari people in either the new trilogy. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.800 People get disappointed when there's like a backstory rhet condan 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.000 for some character that you had made up your own 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.800 weird story for. Yeah. I mean I've kind of gotten 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.480 used to that now because the animated shows have a 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.640 lot of that stuff that I just never watched them. 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.400 And then I'm like, oh, there's like a whole story 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.640 about this one droid that always creeped me out, like 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.960 he was a character, um, which I I don't. I 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.720 I go deep, but not that deep, which is to say, 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.160 not very deep at all, because they're like entire television shows. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.480 I haven't watched, but but and is like a good 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.480 example of like that kind of that kind of like 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.200 creature workshop stuff where it's just like the head and 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.679 they find a way to like animate the eyes and 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.120 the but it's like a human body, so it's not 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.320 a puppet, but like the head is a puppet. The 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.360 head looks very plastic, like molded plastic. And I can't 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.600 tell if that's supposed to be hair that looks like 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.880 a fifties game show host or if that's a hat. 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.680 I think it's a little hat um little hat. So 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.800 the thing about puppets is that they're fundamentally like a 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.680 little bit off put it. They're weird. They're weird, Lily, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.480 and do I have anything to add about puppets, I 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:41.560 can't agree more. Are you pro or anti puppet? I'm 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.320 pro and I specifically was like a super fan of 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.120 the show syphilin Ali. But then yeah, so those are 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:55.120 my main puppet association, Precious Roy Precious puppets are less 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.400 creepy than like anything made out of molded ly tex. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.720 Yeah that's a little Some puppets are pretty much just 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.800 cute yea, which it should be the opposite. Like I 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.120 feel like real puppets are meant to be cute. Stock 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.760 puppets are meant to be weirder. But it's well, trying 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.800 to make things cute always backfires. I mean well, kind 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.880 of like with baby Ood. It's like it works initially, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.200 but eventually there's something about like a bit of like 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.040 a textured or rough kind of thing, or like an 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:27.600 innate organic cuteness that sustains. But the manufactured cuteness. You 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.079 can't try to be cute. You can't try to be 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.440 somebody younger and cuter to push you out unless you 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.800 and then that's forever. Baby Well, should we take a 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:44.600 question about some very cute puppets of old, Yes we sure. Hello, nightcall. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.120 It's ten fifty one PM in Chicago, Illinois, and my 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:54.720 name is Jesse. I'm calling because I've always thought that 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:02.000 Gremlins could be classified as womb horror, because it's about 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.920 like the horror of giving birth and spawning all of 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.160 these creeps. I'm evil, But upon a recent rewatch, I 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.440 feel like it's maybe a little bit more like erase 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.079 their head, where it's like a fear of fatherhood, because 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.400 the entirety of the movie is really from the point 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.400 of view of the young man who has given the 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.880 serve sweet little creature, uh, and then has no control 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.000 over anything. But he's just sort of left to clean 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.120 up the mess. And it just sort of feels like 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:41.320 a weird sort of uh maybe masculine fear of parenthood movie. Anyway, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.800 baby Yoda is giving me really maternal feelings and I'm 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.560 super uncomfortable about it. Thanks to Night Call, good night. Um, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.720 great question. Yeah, I heard actually one theory that baby 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.440 Yoda was a sci op to inspire maternal feelings in 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.319 women because the birth rate is like down every year 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:05.760 four years. Really come on, yeah, man, No, I mean 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.840 I know the birth rates down obviously, but the color 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.400 is right. They're playing into their saying hands. I didn't 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.600 think that would work. I was like, Baby, it doesn't 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.880 make you want to have a human baby. You want 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.320 to have a baby to adopt a French bulldog. Yeah, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.160 but it makes you want to have a little bit 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.600 like any time your baby Yoda gets picked up and 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:29.240 you realize how light and we he is, it doesn't 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.520 make me go like, don't they referred to him as 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:37.839 the child, yes, an officially baby Yoda child. Well, when 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.440 is the last time you guys watched Gremlins, Okay it's 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.760 been I watched it like as an adult but not recently, 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.640 and I love Gremlins. Gremlins reps. We should do a 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.320 whole Gremlins episode, totally, we should. But I definitely I 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.200 had not thought of this, and I don't know if 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:58.000 it's particularly paternal, but I definitely think there's something about 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.480 And also this ties in with a movie we'll be 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:05.400 talking about later, Labyrinth responsibility, like the fear of like 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.080 fucking up a huge responsibility, which is such a valid 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.840 fear um and one big responsibility as children and they're 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.360 very cute and then things can go wrong and then 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.400 they can turn out bad. And yeah, I mean I 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.319 definitely I was like, yes, maybe that's why I loved Gremlins. 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.240 And also may maybe like, oh, what's the other great 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.800 maternal horror movies or like uh, but like it's really 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.600 interesting when it's stuff that's pitched at kids, because doing 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.120 this work early to be like no wonder like if 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.120 you watch Gremlins and you're a little boy, like maybe 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:42.920 you're like I never want to have a pet in 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.480 my life, like that it makes you want to have 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.880 a gizmo that it makes you want to, but it's 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.199 also a good parable for like, well, you could adopt 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.200 a critter and then it could turn against you and 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:02.440 destroy everything. The Big Gremlins or Teenager. Yeah, yeah they are. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.840 They are. Well that's also like what's good about alien 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.040 Like how all the Motherhood horror movies have just like 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.400 scary puppets in them. Yeah, it's true. I mean you 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.440 have to get a good amount of goo in there. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:20.160 I think also I got to have something punching out 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.480 of something. Have you seen Gremlins too? I've actually never 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:28.280 seen gin Amazing. It's funny and it's like a like 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.240 a satire of the eighties and movie making. There's like 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.360 the Key and Peel sketch about Gremlins too, where it's 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.320 just like they go around the room and just like 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.280 call out names of kinds of gremlin and they're like 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.040 it's in the movie. Yeah, it's just like yeah, it's 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.600 totally like, oh, you want us to merchandise this. Here's 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.360 a million new characters, and it has the sexy Lady Gremlin, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.680 which was totally the baby Yoda of her day because 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.880 everybody was like, oh my god, they put lipstick online 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.880 and now feels like It is like that part in 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.200 Wayne's World and they're like, you know, bugs Bunny puts 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.840 on lipstick and you want to make out with bugs Bunny. Um, 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.320 some of us wanted to kiss the gremlins in all 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:22.520 their forms there. You're furry if it's for a gizmo, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.240 you're like a scaly if it's for really. I know 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.440 it's a slippery slope. But when I think about the 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.880 grapes that tastes like hot and candy, I'm just like, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.240 how hard could it be to make? Have you not 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:42.080 had these? But but I never tied those things together. 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.240 I never made the connection before. And this is another 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.920 movie too that was just like about like white people's 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.320 fear of Asian culture and like, oh, if you buy 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.920 products from overseas, like scary things will happen. And again, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:00.160 it totally just makes you want to go buy a gizmo. So, well, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:01.640 we're going to take a quick break and when we 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.560 get back, we're going to talk more puppits of course, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.200 and we're back. Um. So a long running campaign on 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.360 Nightcall has come to a close because we finally got 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:35.200 Molly to watch Labyrinth Labyrinth, not the Labyrinth Labyrinth, Um 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:40.320 Labyrinth Labyrinth. UM. I watched about half of it just 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.560 to refresh myself. It was it was a fairly big 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.840 movie of my childhood, but I hadn't seen it in 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.640 the second Um. But yeah, it's a Jim Henson movie 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.960 if you haven't seen it, with David Bowie and Jennifer 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.600 Connelly and about losing a baby. So it's just like 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.280 pure panic all the way through. Like that's the experience 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.000 of watching Labyrinth and the uncut gems. Yeah, it is 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:08.800 Labyrinth is I mean it's kind of always panic inducing. Um. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.320 What did you think about it watching it for the 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.960 first time as an adult? First time ever? Actually? Right, 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.000 as with many things, Yeah, I had a total misconception 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.440 of what it was going to be like and then 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.000 it was totally different And what did you think it 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.920 was going to be? But it was a medieval fantasy 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.680 movie because it's called Labyrinth. You know, you didn't listen 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.680 to us the whole time. We were like, no, it's 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:34.360 not that babysitting adventure that and then I was like, okay, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.280 you said it was like when you said it's like 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.040 a girl never ending story, and I was like, oh, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.440 all right, but there's like a part in they showed 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.280 at the beginning wearing like a princess dress, but it's 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:49.840 her just practicing. Yeah, very nice costume, better than most 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.280 schools can afford. Yeah, I don't know what I thought 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.159 this movie would be like, but it's just so weird. 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.800 How can you not like it? Yeah? Um, it's so 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.080 deeply weird and it's exactly what we wanted to talk about, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.960 which is just like children's movies in the eighties, We're 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:12.040 so scary. They felt very dangerous and so horny and 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.480 like no movies like but especially children's movies now are 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.760 not like that. But also like even adults movies for children, 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.640 it's like they don't have any of the weird spiky 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.199 parts that give you the weird nightmares and help you 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.160 grow as a person child. You said something like they 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.840 make they made us strong because they made us afraid, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.000 which which resonated. I mean, Labyrinth has a lot of 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:40.280 the puppets and Labyrinth are really purposefully ugly. Yea, and 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.320 they're like wrinkly, they look kind of brown. Yeah, well 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.240 they look dusty. They look like they've been hanging upside 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.560 down Godfather color Palace. Yeah, and they have the wispy 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.840 hair and like they look kind of stinky, Like a 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.200 lot of them are kind of like right, like that's 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.640 the big kind of like snuffle up. I guess one 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.800 um that is the animal that has the face of 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.240 a monkey about like we can't go to like the 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:15.880 swamp because like bog of not bog of eternal stench, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:21.159 but something um there's there. It has a lot of 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:28.199 like smell elements and like burping, belching, wheezing and moss 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.119 and just like wetness, Like the labyrinth itself is very wet, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.520 and there are lots of like tunnels that you can 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:42.800 fall down it is you get lost. There are little 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.000 like like moss like creatures with eyeballs on them. Yeah, 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:52.119 also the tunnel with the hands. Yeah, like the scariest 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:53.879 part to me. You know, there were a lot I 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.000 mean just like as a fan of puppetry, yea many 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.840 parts that I was like, this is so cool. Well 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.640 it's just like it's it's I have not seen dark crystal. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.280 Actually that's the thing, you guys haven't seen dark crystal. 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:14.080 That dark crystal is really dark. Like content wise, everybody 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.720 looks unsettling in a in a way that as a 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.119 child I found very accessible. But when I tried to 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:26.000 watch it again, I just couldn't get could not isn't 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.879 that weird? Like I've watched recently on Disney Plus just 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.480 because I find it useful to revisit every now and then. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.399 Now and then I watched A Little Mermaid just because 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.080 it's a movie that I watched every single day of 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:37.520 my life when I was four years old, and so 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:39.720 there's no way it hasn't affected me on some very 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:44.080 deep cellular level. And yeah, like, well you made something, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:50.880 you chased them the Underset Dream, But like, yeah, there 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.680 are things where it's just like I took for granted 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.320 how such and such a character was designed or something. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.399 I just thought like that, like the Little the Little 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.880 Need Souls and Ursula's cavern. I was just like, yeah, 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:03.960 that's like a that's like a scary thing. And I'm 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.240 like that that's such an interesting design, like and such 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:12.720 a weird, unexplained kind of creepy factor that I feel 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:14.840 like that's actually kind of a gift of somebody like 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.040 Jim Henson to come up with stuff like that that 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.119 just makes sense to kids. Stuff. There's stuff that's in 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:25.640 the gutter between creepy and like enchanting, you're like you're 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.719 like compelled by it because you're sort of repulsed by it. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.160 And then there's like things that are just kind of 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.320 repulsive in a different way because they're like so shiny 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.560 and boring. Yeah yeah, where you're just yeah, you're you're 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.320 the eyes rejected because it's too clean, like me and 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.000 most Pixar movies, and we're in such a zone of 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.479 like extreme cleanliness. And you know Marvel movies that have 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.520 just like these giant c g I stage battles and 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.080 stuff like that that have like nothing real to hold 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.440 onto in it at all. And I have always said 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.680 this that you know, nobody's improved on Jurassic Park, which 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.199 was a mixture of puppets and c g I. And 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:06.639 I was always like, well, why don't they do that more? 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:08.760 And it's like, because it turns out it's really expensive, 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.960 more expensive than doing either one individually, but it's the 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.000 only thing that looks good. Well to be like the 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:15.760 Lord of the Rings movies, I feel like we are 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.680 actually the last like the first three. I didn't see 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:20.680 all the Hobbit ones, but like those did a lot 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.320 of mixing of practical and c g I effects. I 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.119 think it was like the thing that bothered me about 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.399 those movies was the way that like the sky was 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.200 always perfectly tweaked to be like the most beautiful sunset 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.040 I've ever seen. Was just like I wanted to be 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.719 a little bit more like Terence Malick. Well, that was 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.920 the first film that they were really like going to 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.640 town with digital grading, and I was like, too much. 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.600 There can be too much of the thing, like use 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.200 it sparingly if I can detect it, you're using too much. 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:52.600 And obviously it's not like you don't know there's like 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.720 people in a puppet suit, right, but that's part of 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:01.840 the thrill. Well, elide shut what about um? Well, Like 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.040 I was thinking of Hoggle the Little Guy and Labyrinth, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.560 who is like the first creature it's really encountered in 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.080 it other than the like the Greek chorus of goblins 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.760 at the beginning of the movie. And that's like another 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.000 thing where it's like it's a it's a little person 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.320 in a in a head. It's like in the head 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.399 is a puppet because the head has like I was 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:25.359 trying to figure out how it works, and it feels 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.960 like it's like that Jaws just maybe operated by the 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.399 person inside actually moving their jaw because it's very limited 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.800 and it's it's just open and shut like the mouth movements, 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.240 but the eyes in the face are like fully expressive, 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.600 which is really it's such a it's so wild that 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:45.119 like for a decade, like people got really good at 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:48.439 this kind of thing and like involved, and now we 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:53.960 don't really used through the peak of you know, puppet peak, 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:58.360 puppet peak, puppet and rubber rubber mask, latex creature technology. 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.159 It's true, and it got the most broke point and 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.200 then it totally disappeared. So the idea that Baby Yoda 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.119 made people be like, oh, like a puppet. It's expressive 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:08.800 in a way that like c G I just like 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.880 cannot be you feel like the puppet is a real 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:15.040 thing in a different way. Yeah, that's so great. But 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:20.040 puppets in person I find more disturbing than puppets on 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.480 the screen because there's the subtleties that you can accept 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.280 of the limitations of the mouth movement and stuff like 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:30.080 that in person are even kind of more glaring and 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:32.480 feels really wrong. Right, It's like if you see a 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:39.119