Speaker 1: Welcome to Night Call, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: It's two thirty six am in a maze filled with puppets,
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Night Call. Hello and welcome Tonight Call,
Speaker 1: a podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. I
Speaker 1: am in Los Angeles. I'm Tess Lynch and with the
Speaker 1: art Emily Ashida and Molly Lambert and joining us this
Speaker 1: week our very special guest, Lily Simon Sin Lily, Welcome
Speaker 1: Tonight Call. Um. Lily is a friend of mine who
Speaker 1: has been on I think every previous seration of UH,
Speaker 1: this podcast and my podcasts UM. She's an artist, and
Speaker 1: she was also MTVS fanatic for Back, which we will
Speaker 1: talk about more later. We're going to get into it
Speaker 1: back in the news Um. And she's going to a
Speaker 1: conference called the Submergence Confidence, so we'll also discuss that.
Speaker 1: And she's wearing a four local shirt which I just
Speaker 1: noticed it's actually a dress when it becomes the shirt
Speaker 1: in the winter Chameleon. We're going to talk about a
Speaker 1: lot of puppet movies today. The theme of this week's
Speaker 1: Night Call is eighties puppet movies for children. I think
Speaker 1: our theme until the Holidays basically like we're going to
Speaker 1: submerge ourselves in this and stuff. We were all just
Speaker 1: we decided that Baby Yoda, the popularity, the rise and
Speaker 1: fall of Baby Yoda, we're just cashing in on a
Speaker 1: craze right now, like we're we're yeah, it's viral content. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think you made a really salient point, which
Speaker 1: is that the reason people like Baby Yoda is because
Speaker 1: it's a puppet. Right. Yeah, and apparently, um, I don't
Speaker 1: remember if we talked about this before, but Werner Hertzog
Speaker 1: claimed that he was the one who fought for Baby
Speaker 1: Yoda to remain a puppet as opposed to c G. I.
Speaker 1: I still think there's some c G. I like he's
Speaker 1: been juiced up with a little bit of it. But um,
Speaker 1: and and called the the I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was Jon Favreau who we called a coward, but he
Speaker 1: called somebody coward in in true Verner Hertzog fashion. But
Speaker 1: this has been debunked because most things that Werner Hertzog
Speaker 1: says can be debunked in somewhere or other. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: the weird thing about Baby Yoda and and not not
Speaker 1: to I feel like we could do an entire spinoff
Speaker 1: podcast about Baby Yoda, but that um, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't have toys for it, which feels like a huge
Speaker 1: oversight and makes me think that they're not as smart
Speaker 1: as they like. They seem like evil geniuses for creating
Speaker 1: in this thing and for how popular it's become. But
Speaker 1: there are no toys ready for Christmas for it, which
Speaker 1: just feels like, what are you doing? People are crocheting
Speaker 1: their own I know. Like it's also like if you
Speaker 1: see there's a lot of cheepy Yoda things anyway that
Speaker 1: just kind of looked like baby Yoda when you see them,
Speaker 1: like I saw Yoda Christmas ornaments, like oh, baby Yoda.
Speaker 1: Disney has its own kind of fun co pop esque
Speaker 1: iterations of characters, called it Sum Sum. I only know
Speaker 1: this because once I was in a waiting room somewhere
Speaker 1: in the Disney channels. The ones you can stack on
Speaker 1: each other. They're like these little toys. Okay. Our friend
Speaker 1: Jamie Patterson went to a Disney convention on with a
Speaker 1: dress that had all of them sewed on. It paid
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, it was like a dress made out
Speaker 1: of them. They're like Disney beanie babies essentially, Wait you wait,
Speaker 1: hold up. Was that a decision that she made or
Speaker 1: was she like paid to do She paid to do it.
Speaker 1: She was like the model for the Beanie Baby Disney
Speaker 1: Soon Soon dress. That was a great gig. It was,
Speaker 1: to be honest, Yeah, I mean more dress is made
Speaker 1: out of a million stuffed animal right. I think it
Speaker 1: was very heavy, That's what she said. Actually be Yeah,
Speaker 1: we got a like sideways speaking of Star Wars creatures
Speaker 1: and puppets. Um. We got a kind of like indirect
Speaker 1: inquiry uh via Twitter from a listener or more specifically,
Speaker 1: from a listener's boyfriend who had a theory about Nia Nubb.
Speaker 1: Do you guys know about Niab? Didn't? Got asked? Um?
Speaker 1: Nia Nub isn't return of the Jedi. He is a
Speaker 1: slution male. Um he uh. And he looked at it
Speaker 1: because you'll you'll only know when you see it. Well, so,
Speaker 1: so he's like Lando's co pilot when Lando goes in
Speaker 1: to destroy the Second Death Star, um and nodding along,
Speaker 1: why space this way? He has some folds? Um, what happened? Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so when I first saw Star Wars when I was,
Speaker 1: however old, like seven years old, I just sort of
Speaker 1: and I've talked about this, I think on blank check before.
Speaker 1: I kind of just implicitly, without even like questioning it,
Speaker 1: just understood that he was I thought he was Japanese UM.
Speaker 1: I thought he was a Japanese alien, UM, and I
Speaker 1: thought maybe I was related to him. I just like that,
Speaker 1: like this is just like because his voice, the language
Speaker 1: that he speaks, because he only he like speaks unsubtitled
Speaker 1: in his alien language, and it sounds Asian in nature,
Speaker 1: I guess uh. And there were some theories like it's
Speaker 1: so the boyfriend of the listener who did eventually clarify
Speaker 1: his theory was that he thought that he was supposed
Speaker 1: to be a Vietnamese alien, which the name feels vietname
Speaker 1: like fake Vietnamese Um. But apparently he was voiced by
Speaker 1: a his name was Bill kept saying road chick. He
Speaker 1: was a Kenyan student, and he spoke in his native
Speaker 1: language for the role um, and he became like a
Speaker 1: local celebrity in Kenya afterwards for being this alien and
Speaker 1: Star Wars. Pretty like he'sising that more than one person
Speaker 1: was like this alien. It's definitely Asia, and like specifically this,
Speaker 1: I have another Asian American friend who identifies deeply with
Speaker 1: et see, like what is this is what happens when
Speaker 1: you're like not representative, You're like, what can I be
Speaker 1: in this movie? And I mean like, because I was
Speaker 1: I rewatched um just in preparation for the new Star
Speaker 1: Wars it's coming out. I rewatched Last Jedi this past week,
Speaker 1: which does have like the first ever actual Asian character
Speaker 1: and it like your main character in it. And it
Speaker 1: was just sort of like hilarious to think that up
Speaker 1: until then, the only like substantial Asian representation was like
Speaker 1: Nea Nub And then in a very dark turn, uh,
Speaker 1: the what are they called Nemidians in the prequels, which
Speaker 1: are like basically like super offensive Chinese characters like these
Speaker 1: like kind of trade and a negotiation Aliens who are
Speaker 1: just like bureaucrats and super evil and have like bad Twilight.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. This is the hardest I've
Speaker 1: ever thought about any of it, you know. But I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, the cantina is it in Mexico they
Speaker 1: have cantinas, not a cantina cantina. But also it is
Speaker 1: weird that it's like almost all white people and land
Speaker 1: in space and yes, yeah, yeah, that's weird. And then
Speaker 1: sometime and whatever timeline that the current trilogy is taking place,
Speaker 1: and suddenly everything gets more diverse, Like suddenly space is
Speaker 1: more differ is weirdly fifty years after a return of
Speaker 1: the Jedi or however long it's supposed to be. I
Speaker 1: think it's fifty years yeah. Um, anyway, this is just
Speaker 1: more This is a Star Wars podcast in short, Um,
Speaker 1: who's the it's a trap guy. He's Admiral Akbar. I've
Speaker 1: come to love that one. Oh yeah, he's great, he's
Speaker 1: a and there, um are there. I feel like there
Speaker 1: are more like Calamari people in either the new trilogy.
Speaker 1: People get disappointed when there's like a backstory rhet condan
Speaker 1: for some character that you had made up your own
Speaker 1: weird story for. Yeah. I mean I've kind of gotten
Speaker 1: used to that now because the animated shows have a
Speaker 1: lot of that stuff that I just never watched them.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, oh, there's like a whole story
Speaker 1: about this one droid that always creeped me out, like
Speaker 1: he was a character, um, which I I don't. I
Speaker 1: I go deep, but not that deep, which is to say,
Speaker 1: not very deep at all, because they're like entire television shows.
Speaker 1: I haven't watched, but but and is like a good
Speaker 1: example of like that kind of that kind of like
Speaker 1: creature workshop stuff where it's just like the head and
Speaker 1: they find a way to like animate the eyes and
Speaker 1: the but it's like a human body, so it's not
Speaker 1: a puppet, but like the head is a puppet. The
Speaker 1: head looks very plastic, like molded plastic. And I can't
Speaker 1: tell if that's supposed to be hair that looks like
Speaker 1: a fifties game show host or if that's a hat.
Speaker 1: I think it's a little hat um little hat. So
Speaker 1: the thing about puppets is that they're fundamentally like a
Speaker 1: little bit off put it. They're weird. They're weird, Lily,
Speaker 1: and do I have anything to add about puppets, I
Speaker 1: can't agree more. Are you pro or anti puppet? I'm
Speaker 1: pro and I specifically was like a super fan of
Speaker 1: the show syphilin Ali. But then yeah, so those are
Speaker 1: my main puppet association, Precious Roy Precious puppets are less
Speaker 1: creepy than like anything made out of molded ly tex.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's a little Some puppets are pretty much just
Speaker 1: cute yea, which it should be the opposite. Like I
Speaker 1: feel like real puppets are meant to be cute. Stock
Speaker 1: puppets are meant to be weirder. But it's well, trying
Speaker 1: to make things cute always backfires. I mean well, kind
Speaker 1: of like with baby Ood. It's like it works initially,
Speaker 1: but eventually there's something about like a bit of like
Speaker 1: a textured or rough kind of thing, or like an
Speaker 1: innate organic cuteness that sustains. But the manufactured cuteness. You
Speaker 1: can't try to be cute. You can't try to be
Speaker 1: somebody younger and cuter to push you out unless you
Speaker 1: and then that's forever. Baby Well, should we take a
Speaker 1: question about some very cute puppets of old, Yes we sure. Hello, nightcall.
Speaker 1: It's ten fifty one PM in Chicago, Illinois, and my
Speaker 1: name is Jesse. I'm calling because I've always thought that
Speaker 1: Gremlins could be classified as womb horror, because it's about
Speaker 1: like the horror of giving birth and spawning all of
Speaker 1: these creeps. I'm evil, But upon a recent rewatch, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's maybe a little bit more like erase
Speaker 1: their head, where it's like a fear of fatherhood, because
Speaker 1: the entirety of the movie is really from the point
Speaker 1: of view of the young man who has given the
Speaker 1: serve sweet little creature, uh, and then has no control
Speaker 1: over anything. But he's just sort of left to clean
Speaker 1: up the mess. And it just sort of feels like
Speaker 1: a weird sort of uh maybe masculine fear of parenthood movie. Anyway,
Speaker 1: baby Yoda is giving me really maternal feelings and I'm
Speaker 1: super uncomfortable about it. Thanks to Night Call, good night. Um,
Speaker 1: great question. Yeah, I heard actually one theory that baby
Speaker 1: Yoda was a sci op to inspire maternal feelings in
Speaker 1: women because the birth rate is like down every year
Speaker 1: four years. Really come on, yeah, man, No, I mean
Speaker 1: I know the birth rates down obviously, but the color
Speaker 1: is right. They're playing into their saying hands. I didn't
Speaker 1: think that would work. I was like, Baby, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make you want to have a human baby. You want
Speaker 1: to have a baby to adopt a French bulldog. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it makes you want to have a little bit
Speaker 1: like any time your baby Yoda gets picked up and
Speaker 1: you realize how light and we he is, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make me go like, don't they referred to him as
Speaker 1: the child, yes, an officially baby Yoda child. Well, when
Speaker 1: is the last time you guys watched Gremlins, Okay it's
Speaker 1: been I watched it like as an adult but not recently,
Speaker 1: and I love Gremlins. Gremlins reps. We should do a
Speaker 1: whole Gremlins episode, totally, we should. But I definitely I
Speaker 1: had not thought of this, and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's particularly paternal, but I definitely think there's something about
Speaker 1: And also this ties in with a movie we'll be
Speaker 1: talking about later, Labyrinth responsibility, like the fear of like
Speaker 1: fucking up a huge responsibility, which is such a valid
Speaker 1: fear um and one big responsibility as children and they're
Speaker 1: very cute and then things can go wrong and then
Speaker 1: they can turn out bad. And yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: definitely I was like, yes, maybe that's why I loved Gremlins.
Speaker 1: And also may maybe like, oh, what's the other great
Speaker 1: maternal horror movies or like uh, but like it's really
Speaker 1: interesting when it's stuff that's pitched at kids, because doing
Speaker 1: this work early to be like no wonder like if
Speaker 1: you watch Gremlins and you're a little boy, like maybe
Speaker 1: you're like I never want to have a pet in
Speaker 1: my life, like that it makes you want to have
Speaker 1: a gizmo that it makes you want to, but it's
Speaker 1: also a good parable for like, well, you could adopt
Speaker 1: a critter and then it could turn against you and
Speaker 1: destroy everything. The Big Gremlins or Teenager. Yeah, yeah they are.
Speaker 1: They are. Well that's also like what's good about alien
Speaker 1: Like how all the Motherhood horror movies have just like
Speaker 1: scary puppets in them. Yeah, it's true. I mean you
Speaker 1: have to get a good amount of goo in there.
Speaker 1: I think also I got to have something punching out
Speaker 1: of something. Have you seen Gremlins too? I've actually never
Speaker 1: seen gin Amazing. It's funny and it's like a like
Speaker 1: a satire of the eighties and movie making. There's like
Speaker 1: the Key and Peel sketch about Gremlins too, where it's
Speaker 1: just like they go around the room and just like
Speaker 1: call out names of kinds of gremlin and they're like
Speaker 1: it's in the movie. Yeah, it's just like yeah, it's
Speaker 1: totally like, oh, you want us to merchandise this. Here's
Speaker 1: a million new characters, and it has the sexy Lady Gremlin,
Speaker 1: which was totally the baby Yoda of her day because
Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh my god, they put lipstick online
Speaker 1: and now feels like It is like that part in
Speaker 1: Wayne's World and they're like, you know, bugs Bunny puts
Speaker 1: on lipstick and you want to make out with bugs Bunny. Um,
Speaker 1: some of us wanted to kiss the gremlins in all
Speaker 1: their forms there. You're furry if it's for a gizmo,
Speaker 1: you're like a scaly if it's for really. I know
Speaker 1: it's a slippery slope. But when I think about the
Speaker 1: grapes that tastes like hot and candy, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: how hard could it be to make? Have you not
Speaker 1: had these? But but I never tied those things together.
Speaker 1: I never made the connection before. And this is another
Speaker 1: movie too that was just like about like white people's
Speaker 1: fear of Asian culture and like, oh, if you buy
Speaker 1: products from overseas, like scary things will happen. And again,
Speaker 1: it totally just makes you want to go buy a gizmo. So, well,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break and when we
Speaker 1: get back, we're going to talk more puppits of course,
Speaker 1: and we're back. Um. So a long running campaign on
Speaker 1: Nightcall has come to a close because we finally got
Speaker 1: Molly to watch Labyrinth Labyrinth, not the Labyrinth Labyrinth, Um
Speaker 1: Labyrinth Labyrinth. UM. I watched about half of it just
Speaker 1: to refresh myself. It was it was a fairly big
Speaker 1: movie of my childhood, but I hadn't seen it in
Speaker 1: the second Um. But yeah, it's a Jim Henson movie
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it, with David Bowie and Jennifer
Speaker 1: Connelly and about losing a baby. So it's just like
Speaker 1: pure panic all the way through. Like that's the experience
Speaker 1: of watching Labyrinth and the uncut gems. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: Labyrinth is I mean it's kind of always panic inducing. Um.
Speaker 1: What did you think about it watching it for the
Speaker 1: first time as an adult? First time ever? Actually? Right,
Speaker 1: as with many things, Yeah, I had a total misconception
Speaker 1: of what it was going to be like and then
Speaker 1: it was totally different And what did you think it
Speaker 1: was going to be? But it was a medieval fantasy
Speaker 1: movie because it's called Labyrinth. You know, you didn't listen
Speaker 1: to us the whole time. We were like, no, it's
Speaker 1: not that babysitting adventure that and then I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you said it was like when you said it's like
Speaker 1: a girl never ending story, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: all right, but there's like a part in they showed
Speaker 1: at the beginning wearing like a princess dress, but it's
Speaker 1: her just practicing. Yeah, very nice costume, better than most
Speaker 1: schools can afford. Yeah, I don't know what I thought
Speaker 1: this movie would be like, but it's just so weird.
Speaker 1: How can you not like it? Yeah? Um, it's so
Speaker 1: deeply weird and it's exactly what we wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: which is just like children's movies in the eighties, We're
Speaker 1: so scary. They felt very dangerous and so horny and
Speaker 1: like no movies like but especially children's movies now are
Speaker 1: not like that. But also like even adults movies for children,
Speaker 1: it's like they don't have any of the weird spiky
Speaker 1: parts that give you the weird nightmares and help you
Speaker 1: grow as a person child. You said something like they
Speaker 1: make they made us strong because they made us afraid,
Speaker 1: which which resonated. I mean, Labyrinth has a lot of
Speaker 1: the puppets and Labyrinth are really purposefully ugly. Yea, and
Speaker 1: they're like wrinkly, they look kind of brown. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: they look dusty. They look like they've been hanging upside
Speaker 1: down Godfather color Palace. Yeah, and they have the wispy
Speaker 1: hair and like they look kind of stinky, Like a
Speaker 1: lot of them are kind of like right, like that's
Speaker 1: the big kind of like snuffle up. I guess one
Speaker 1: um that is the animal that has the face of
Speaker 1: a monkey about like we can't go to like the
Speaker 1: swamp because like bog of not bog of eternal stench,
Speaker 1: but something um there's there. It has a lot of
Speaker 1: like smell elements and like burping, belching, wheezing and moss
Speaker 1: and just like wetness, Like the labyrinth itself is very wet,
Speaker 1: and there are lots of like tunnels that you can
Speaker 1: fall down it is you get lost. There are little
Speaker 1: like like moss like creatures with eyeballs on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: also the tunnel with the hands. Yeah, like the scariest
Speaker 1: part to me. You know, there were a lot I
Speaker 1: mean just like as a fan of puppetry, yea many
Speaker 1: parts that I was like, this is so cool. Well
Speaker 1: it's just like it's it's I have not seen dark crystal.
Speaker 1: Actually that's the thing, you guys haven't seen dark crystal.
Speaker 1: That dark crystal is really dark. Like content wise, everybody
Speaker 1: looks unsettling in a in a way that as a
Speaker 1: child I found very accessible. But when I tried to
Speaker 1: watch it again, I just couldn't get could not isn't
Speaker 1: that weird? Like I've watched recently on Disney Plus just
Speaker 1: because I find it useful to revisit every now and then.
Speaker 1: Now and then I watched A Little Mermaid just because
Speaker 1: it's a movie that I watched every single day of
Speaker 1: my life when I was four years old, and so
Speaker 1: there's no way it hasn't affected me on some very
Speaker 1: deep cellular level. And yeah, like, well you made something,
Speaker 1: you chased them the Underset Dream, But like, yeah, there
Speaker 1: are things where it's just like I took for granted
Speaker 1: how such and such a character was designed or something.
Speaker 1: I just thought like that, like the Little the Little
Speaker 1: Need Souls and Ursula's cavern. I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like a that's like a scary thing. And I'm
Speaker 1: like that that's such an interesting design, like and such
Speaker 1: a weird, unexplained kind of creepy factor that I feel
Speaker 1: like that's actually kind of a gift of somebody like
Speaker 1: Jim Henson to come up with stuff like that that
Speaker 1: just makes sense to kids. Stuff. There's stuff that's in
Speaker 1: the gutter between creepy and like enchanting, you're like you're
Speaker 1: like compelled by it because you're sort of repulsed by it.
Speaker 1: And then there's like things that are just kind of
Speaker 1: repulsive in a different way because they're like so shiny
Speaker 1: and boring. Yeah yeah, where you're just yeah, you're you're
Speaker 1: the eyes rejected because it's too clean, like me and
Speaker 1: most Pixar movies, and we're in such a zone of
Speaker 1: like extreme cleanliness. And you know Marvel movies that have
Speaker 1: just like these giant c g I stage battles and
Speaker 1: stuff like that that have like nothing real to hold
Speaker 1: onto in it at all. And I have always said
Speaker 1: this that you know, nobody's improved on Jurassic Park, which
Speaker 1: was a mixture of puppets and c g I. And
Speaker 1: I was always like, well, why don't they do that more?
Speaker 1: And it's like, because it turns out it's really expensive,
Speaker 1: more expensive than doing either one individually, but it's the
Speaker 1: only thing that looks good. Well to be like the
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings movies, I feel like we are
Speaker 1: actually the last like the first three. I didn't see
Speaker 1: all the Hobbit ones, but like those did a lot
Speaker 1: of mixing of practical and c g I effects. I
Speaker 1: think it was like the thing that bothered me about
Speaker 1: those movies was the way that like the sky was
Speaker 1: always perfectly tweaked to be like the most beautiful sunset
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Was just like I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more like Terence Malick. Well, that was
Speaker 1: the first film that they were really like going to
Speaker 1: town with digital grading, and I was like, too much.
Speaker 1: There can be too much of the thing, like use
Speaker 1: it sparingly if I can detect it, you're using too much.
Speaker 1: And obviously it's not like you don't know there's like
Speaker 1: people in a puppet suit, right, but that's part of
Speaker 1: the thrill. Well, elide shut what about um? Well, Like
Speaker 1: I was thinking of Hoggle the Little Guy and Labyrinth,
Speaker 1: who is like the first creature it's really encountered in
Speaker 1: it other than the like the Greek chorus of goblins
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie. And that's like another
Speaker 1: thing where it's like it's a it's a little person
Speaker 1: in a in a head. It's like in the head
Speaker 1: is a puppet because the head has like I was
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how it works, and it feels
Speaker 1: like it's like that Jaws just maybe operated by the
Speaker 1: person inside actually moving their jaw because it's very limited
Speaker 1: and it's it's just open and shut like the mouth movements,
Speaker 1: but the eyes in the face are like fully expressive,
Speaker 1: which is really it's such a it's so wild that
Speaker 1: like for a decade, like people got really good at
Speaker 1: this kind of thing and like involved, and now we
Speaker 1: don't really used through the peak of you know, puppet peak,
Speaker 1: puppet peak, puppet and rubber rubber mask, latex creature technology.
Speaker 1: It's true, and it got the most broke point and
Speaker 1: then it totally disappeared. So the idea that Baby Yoda
Speaker 1: made people be like, oh, like a puppet. It's expressive
Speaker 1: in a way that like c G I just like
Speaker 1: cannot be you feel like the puppet is a real
Speaker 1: thing in a different way. Yeah, that's so great. But
Speaker 1: puppets in person I find more disturbing than puppets on
Speaker 1: the screen because there's the subtleties that you can accept
Speaker 1: of the limitations of the mouth movement and stuff like
Speaker 1: that in person are even kind of more glaring and
Speaker 1: feels really wrong. Right, It's like if you see a
Speaker 1: taped play exactly, you know, that's my favorite. Can I
Speaker 1: hear everybody's footsteps. Yeah, I mean Labyrinth was awesome. It
Speaker 1: was my favorite part. Well, I think I was also
Speaker 1: just afraid that it would like introduce me to some
Speaker 1: kind of a corny David Bowie, and that that was
Speaker 1: something I wasn't prepared to ever face. You know, he's
Speaker 1: in full I've seen the gifts out of context and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's like silly David Bowie. But
Speaker 1: then it's a very horny Yes, that's remember from Labyrinth,
Speaker 1: is like David Bowie's moose knuckle. I think I just
Speaker 1: I'm not like think of those things who You're like,
Speaker 1: I won't be like every single other person who thinks
Speaker 1: that like a hot person is like Tim Curry in
Speaker 1: the Rocky Horror Picture Show. And then you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I no, everybody thinks that for a reason, he's the
Speaker 1: best at this. And also like when you see David
Speaker 1: Bowie at a young age with this moose knuckle and
Speaker 1: you're like six or whatever, it really does kind of
Speaker 1: color the rest of your Like, I feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people in our generation were
Speaker 1: deeply influenced in ways that can never be reversed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd seen it earlier because it's very I can imagine.
Speaker 1: I was watching and I was I was thinking, like
Speaker 1: it feels actually a lot like a Miyazaki movie, Like
Speaker 1: you can really easily imagine a population of it, which
Speaker 1: would also be really cool, it would be different, but
Speaker 1: the whole kind of where it's it's sort of a
Speaker 1: template to just like let a visual imagination go, like
Speaker 1: in a new place and there's all tons of new,
Speaker 1: weirdy creatures and things to see. Yeah. I think one
Speaker 1: thing that I also like enjoyed watching or like kind
Speaker 1: of reappreciating this time is how much because I remember
Speaker 1: like playing Labyrinth as a kid, and there are so
Speaker 1: many little ideas and tricks in the movie that I
Speaker 1: don't really have anything to do with the puppets, but
Speaker 1: they're just like you know, where a wall looks like
Speaker 1: a wall and then and then it's not they can
Speaker 1: walk through and uh, you know, the little switching of
Speaker 1: the tiles and stuff where it just feels like stuff
Speaker 1: that's very like it's very inspirational for playing and like
Speaker 1: make believe when you're a kid, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that's very like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's like a force for good as far as I can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like Alice in Wonderland, where it's like it's got
Speaker 1: its own logic, and the logic is that it makes
Speaker 1: no sense, but it's also it's just like it's also
Speaker 1: kind of just a love triangle between well, Hoggle is
Speaker 1: in love with her and he gets friend zone and
Speaker 1: he's like, she'll never love you, idiot. I didn't think
Speaker 1: this Christal Ball. Do you think that that David Mowe
Speaker 1: could actually do that with you? Couldn't? I found out
Speaker 1: it was a hand double and also like I think
Speaker 1: that's the thing puppet puppeteers can do, maybe because they're good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just had some of the like Moment Shawn stuff
Speaker 1: like the face faces made out of hands and stuff,
Speaker 1: like they probably had all these ideas that were too
Speaker 1: scary for Sesame Street. They knew they could do um
Speaker 1: and I think that they're afraid to see it, because
Speaker 1: I was like what if It's like, I'm very unsettled
Speaker 1: by things that like makes Sesame Street fucked up my
Speaker 1: most hated troupe. Um wait in what way? Like stuff
Speaker 1: that makes it? Stuff that's like they're killing each other.
Speaker 1: And there was a Liquid Television segment where like Burton
Speaker 1: Ernie like siced anddised each other and it really oh god,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was like, I will avoid Garry
Speaker 1: puppets right too scary for me. Um, this has a
Speaker 1: heart of gold. There's no slicing and dicing. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: the threat of slicing and dicing, but it's not. There's
Speaker 1: a masquerade ball. Yeah that's its. But like you said,
Speaker 1: I had an Uber driver once who told me about
Speaker 1: there's like a Causplay Labyrinthe masquerade ball I think every
Speaker 1: year that they do downtown because she was a Cause
Speaker 1: player and she was like, have you ever Cause played?
Speaker 1: You should causeplay as Marita from Brave because of your Sure,
Speaker 1: she goes every year too. There's like this Labyrinth cosplay
Speaker 1: masquerade ball that it started as just being Labyrinth themed
Speaker 1: and now it's like maybe even a little more generally steampunk.
Speaker 1: But we should totally do this if our Patreon goal
Speaker 1: every single episode, I'm like for our next Patreon goal,
Speaker 1: and then we never changed it on the Patreon, but
Speaker 1: maybe that will be a Patreon goal. Um. We got
Speaker 1: a message on the Facebook group for a nightcall Nightcallers
Speaker 1: by Lindsay, and she pointed out it's pretty well established
Speaker 1: that the Labyrinth world and everything in it is a
Speaker 1: manifestation of Sarah's childhood fantasies and unconscious desires. Before she
Speaker 1: goes there, we see that her bedroom is full of
Speaker 1: toys and posters that resemble characters and scenes from the
Speaker 1: Labyrinth World. But if you look closely at the photos
Speaker 1: of Sarah's glamorous stage actress mother on her mirror, you'll
Speaker 1: notice that her handsome young co star called Jeremy and
Speaker 1: the novelization appears to be David Bowie. So not only
Speaker 1: is the Goblin King a kind of teenage rockstar fantasy,
Speaker 1: he's also based on her image of her mom's boyfriend,
Speaker 1: very Electra. Yes, yeah, but not her dad nor her
Speaker 1: dream dad. Her room and the kind of like references
Speaker 1: throughout the movie or also it has a lot of
Speaker 1: like Easter eggs that are fun. Yeah. I thought Jennifer
Speaker 1: Connelly was great. I guess she got bad reviews people
Speaker 1: remain to her some of her performances in Labyrinth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's shocking, Um, but I thought she was great. Well, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you finally have had your eyes open. I
Speaker 1: mean the songs, but did you scary because I didn't.
Speaker 1: I found it super scary. It's still pretty scary. I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's just unpleasant, like I think, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's cool, but it's like it gives you this
Speaker 1: sort of like yuck feeling. I feel like even when
Speaker 1: I was a kid and I liked it, it was
Speaker 1: just because it felt like I mean, it felt like
Speaker 1: going out into the wilderness and the mud and stuff
Speaker 1: and like finding weird mush the way David Lynch movies
Speaker 1: are scary. It's like it's about your subconscious and anxiety dream. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you have to do some weird task and there's
Speaker 1: like incredibly weird rules to follow. Who is everyone's favorite creature?
Speaker 1: I like the little eyeball moss things. That's like the
Speaker 1: first thing I think of when I think of Labyrinth,
Speaker 1: because I think that just really troubled me for whatever
Speaker 1: reason when I was young, Like it was very setting. Um,
Speaker 1: but they're a very cool little design. I like them.
Speaker 1: I like that thing I can't remember the name of.
Speaker 1: It looks like a fuzzy elephent with a monkey's face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly know. They're cute too. Um. I like the word
Speaker 1: good and I was like I'm in he has a
Speaker 1: little scarf and I've seen it. It It was one of
Speaker 1: those things too. I was like, oh, I've seen this
Speaker 1: image before and now I know. Yeah, I understand, Lily.
Speaker 1: Do you remember having one h David Bowie's moves nut Yeah, yeah, dance,
Speaker 1: magic dance. Um, well, I don't remember any of you.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, maybe we should take a
Speaker 1: little break and then when we come back, we should
Speaker 1: talk to Lily about some pretty breaking news within the
Speaker 1: past week that affects her personally, and a reaction on
Speaker 1: air going deep under the sea and making art about
Speaker 1: all the cool creatures you see. We'll be back, and
Speaker 1: we're back. So guys, we were talking, Um, we actually
Speaker 1: we assumed Lily knew the fact that Beck has has
Speaker 1: now come out and said that he's no longer a scientologist,
Speaker 1: that he never was a science yeah, which which that's
Speaker 1: just clearly fun. He just said I am not a
Speaker 1: science I think he just said I am not a scientist.
Speaker 1: I'm not affiliated. He said, I'm not, so okay, I'll
Speaker 1: find the which we would know this right it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't an interview with this Sydney Morning Harold. So
Speaker 1: this is the quote. He says. Um says, there's been
Speaker 1: persistent speculation and curiosity about Beck's own beliefs, and he said,
Speaker 1: I think there's a mixed conception that I am a scientologist.
Speaker 1: I'm not a scientologist. I don't have any connection or
Speaker 1: affiliation with it. My father has been a scientologist for
Speaker 1: a long time, but I pretty much just focused on
Speaker 1: my music and my work for most of my life,
Speaker 1: intended to do my own thing. I think it's just
Speaker 1: something people ran with. That's the quote. Um, alright, that's
Speaker 1: the role of the the world's foremost pacologists. We know you
Speaker 1: may have been off the grid having a child. No,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm a lapsed ecologists. Like I stopped. I
Speaker 1: was a big fan of an incredibly big fan of
Speaker 1: Beck when I was in high school, and I interviewed
Speaker 1: him on MTV as his number one fan, and I
Speaker 1: think I legitimately was. But then, Um, I kind of
Speaker 1: got less connected to the music as I stopped being
Speaker 1: a teenager and he was Yeah he was my life, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and like was not as into his music post See Change,
Speaker 1: and I believed him to be a scientologist. Of course,
Speaker 1: part of my teen crush was that we were going
Speaker 1: to be together one day, and if he was a scientologist,
Speaker 1: that couldn't happen. It was although I did toy, of
Speaker 1: course with joining the religion too, didn't happen. How far
Speaker 1: did she down the street to the celebrity Center. I
Speaker 1: took it. I actually, let's see, I was on a
Speaker 1: scavenger hunt and I bought dianetics quote for the scavenger
Speaker 1: But that's as close as I got it. That's a
Speaker 1: brilliant way to get kids to read dionetics to create
Speaker 1: a scavenger huts. It's fun, it's part of a game.
Speaker 1: So do you think Beck was a scientologist? I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel so weird going against what he's saying. But
Speaker 1: I definitely got the impression he was because he married
Speaker 1: Marissa Rabi. It was very carefully worded. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: But he did in two thousand five he did explicitly say, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a scientologist. My father has been a scientologist for
Speaker 1: about thirty five years. So I grew up in and
Speaker 1: around it and stuff. I remember that. And before that,
Speaker 1: he used to say who was Jewish? He specifically said
Speaker 1: identified as Jewish in like the nineties, because he's closer
Speaker 1: with his mom, right, who maybe is not. I'm actually
Speaker 1: very close with his She became friends when I was
Speaker 1: in high school and she's awesome, and she is not
Speaker 1: a scientologist. Um. She and I have never discussed it,
Speaker 1: but my impression is that she may have been at
Speaker 1: one point, but I don't think she is anymore. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm yeah. His dad obviously is. And my theory was that,
Speaker 1: like she left the church with his kids. But I've
Speaker 1: never talked to you about it, so I think that
Speaker 1: is the But again, it's interesting that somebody can be
Speaker 1: this famous and there are things we just like fundamentally
Speaker 1: don't know about them that seems very impossible for like
Speaker 1: anyone else at this point, dare they spill the so
Speaker 1: some some other former lapsed scientologists have have taken issue
Speaker 1: with this quote. Uh specifically Leah Remany, who um I
Speaker 1: believe said that it was a pussy move for him
Speaker 1: to claim he was never a scientologist, and she was like,
Speaker 1: you can quote me on that pussy move, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: um yeah. And and Mike Render is that how you
Speaker 1: say his last name? The former senior executive sent he
Speaker 1: has the website about scientology. He was also kind of um,
Speaker 1: you know, it feels basically, it feels like a cheat
Speaker 1: to them, Like it's one thing to have been at
Speaker 1: one point and to say that you're not anymore, but
Speaker 1: then to deny that you ever were. But again, I
Speaker 1: don't think he's denying it. I think he's just phrasing
Speaker 1: it care fully because again it's like if he does
Speaker 1: have an ex wife who's maybe in and like children,
Speaker 1: you know, than like because he doesn't want to be
Speaker 1: an sp Yeah. I. I also again like for people
Speaker 1: who were born into it, I give them like so
Speaker 1: much more leeway or just anyone. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: like just another religion in many ways, there are like
Speaker 1: a lot of religions that do things that are shady.
Speaker 1: Like to me, it is not worse than the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: It's just newer. Yeah. I. And also just like I've
Speaker 1: known people that like were scientologists and there aren't anymore
Speaker 1: and like nothing bad happened to them, you know. I
Speaker 1: think sort of the idea that like they are this
Speaker 1: all powerful like you were saying, like the way that
Speaker 1: Disney wants us to think of them is like the
Speaker 1: most like all knowing, evil company. Like I think in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways they're just sort of like more
Speaker 1: like an MLM or something right. Well, that they are
Speaker 1: a really good example of the fuzziness, at least in
Speaker 1: America between a religion and a business. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what's creepy about them, because it's like you can
Speaker 1: kind of explain a lot of the stuff, the awful
Speaker 1: stuff that the Catholic Church has done over history with like, well,
Speaker 1: it's faith, and it's like what people do are capable
Speaker 1: of when they have a faith, and like sometimes it's
Speaker 1: good things and sometimes it's bad things. I think like
Speaker 1: the fact that I mean they would say otherwise, but
Speaker 1: that their model is pretty explicitly a business, I think
Speaker 1: is the thing that makes it feel more Like if
Speaker 1: I know lots of stories about people who had been
Speaker 1: personally threatened and really harmed by the Church of Scientology,
Speaker 1: I would not share them because I'm afraid of the
Speaker 1: Church of Scientology. If I had new people who would
Speaker 1: say that Scientology is far worse even than the Catholic Church,
Speaker 1: what about all the peophilia in the Catholic Church, I
Speaker 1: mean pretty doesn't get worse than that, like the scars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, is that there's a lot of religions.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is probably my hottest take, but obviously,
Speaker 1: like I do think that a lot of religions have
Speaker 1: like fucked up ideologies to perpetuate violence. People take a
Speaker 1: special kind of offense to Scientology because it's so new
Speaker 1: that they can be like it started like a hundred
Speaker 1: years ago. Where do you think Shelly is where? But
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying, Like you know, one Shelly mis Covige.
Speaker 1: It's also the legal team, the legal team, which is
Speaker 1: why if I knew lots of horrible things about the
Speaker 1: Church of Scientology, would not share them on this podcast,
Speaker 1: but would share them afterwards in the elevator. Because they,
Speaker 1: I have heard, will hound individuals in a way that
Speaker 1: larger religious organizations won't bother with. They are litigious. I
Speaker 1: have heard to the point of like ruining people's lives
Speaker 1: who don't have much power them cells and using a
Speaker 1: huge amount of energy to destroy this random person who well,
Speaker 1: then again, can you blame back for not wanting to
Speaker 1: be like exactly you know, I think for somebody like
Speaker 1: Leah Remini, who has taken a hard stand, it's probably
Speaker 1: like galling to her to be like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I am a pussy isn't the best way
Speaker 1: to convey that either. Sure, I'm not really defending yeah,
Speaker 1: and also she shouldn't be using the word pussy in
Speaker 1: a derogatory way. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you mean he's
Speaker 1: awesome because the list of everything we've said about Pussy
Speaker 1: so far, all their all their great traits. You're saying
Speaker 1: he's cute, like the gizmo from Massy invertants speaking, I
Speaker 1: would have to agree. How about those dark depths? Uh,
Speaker 1: Lily another a cavernous, the deeps um deep. Everything I
Speaker 1: paint from the deep looks like a vagina. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: because the ocean is vaginal. Um. I am. We're all,
Speaker 1: I think, big fans of your art. So I just
Speaker 1: wanted to talk with you about that because you've probably
Speaker 1: mentioned on Molly's other podcasts kind of the work that
Speaker 1: you do, but it's you do really cool, like you
Speaker 1: go way down deep in that ocean. Yeah. Yeah, Well
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny because I was a super fan
Speaker 1: of Beck and now I'm a super fan of these
Speaker 1: sea creatures, and I went to great to meet Beck
Speaker 1: and now I go to great lengths to meet sea
Speaker 1: creatures in person, where you I know you just came
Speaker 1: from the airport where you like coming from a project. No, no, um,
Speaker 1: but I'm doing a project here that's really cool. Oh yeah, my. Well,
Speaker 1: so I got really into ecosystems that live around hydrothermal
Speaker 1: vents and chemical seeds because we used to think there
Speaker 1: was no life in the deep sea because there's no
Speaker 1: light and so there's no plants, so there can be
Speaker 1: no food chain. And then in the seventies they discovered
Speaker 1: that there are these chemical hot spots where microorganisms turn
Speaker 1: sulfur and methane into energy, and then bigger creatures eat
Speaker 1: those micro organisms. So my next project is I'm working
Speaker 1: with a scientist at Caltech who studies the actual microorganisms
Speaker 1: and how they turn those chemicals into energy. So how
Speaker 1: do they um, uh, well, it's complicated. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can summarize it, but basically, they consume methane.
Speaker 1: ARCHAA and bacteria work together to consume methane and sulfur
Speaker 1: and then like the things that I've been painting are,
Speaker 1: I got into it because I got really into the
Speaker 1: yet E rab, which is this um deep sea crab
Speaker 1: that has is all white and it's got white furry pinchers,
Speaker 1: and the pinchers are covered in this like the fur
Speaker 1: is actually uh like filamentous bacteria and so that bacteria
Speaker 1: like consumed sulfur and then the crabs farm it and
Speaker 1: eat it, eat the bacteria off. Such a cool crab.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I got to dive in a submarine and
Speaker 1: see actually yetti crabs and they look like fraggles. Actually
Speaker 1: they do full circle, they really do. I mean they
Speaker 1: have like, um, it's like those like, uh, those leggings
Speaker 1: like rave girls. Where's funny. I made a yetti crab
Speaker 1: costume for for Burning Man, like twelve years ago, and uh.
Speaker 1: And then I got there and I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I just look like a raver. What is it like
Speaker 1: to go in a submarine that deep? Is that? Is
Speaker 1: it terrifying? Are you used to it now? No? I
Speaker 1: haven't been that many times. But I've been to see
Speaker 1: a lot of times, but I've only been in the
Speaker 1: sub twice. And what was really cool is I was
Speaker 1: at sea and one of the submarine pilots new Molly
Speaker 1: and Jefferson. This is proof that Molly knows everyone. And
Speaker 1: I wrote Terra. I was like, I'm on a ship
Speaker 1: and of course the submarine pilot. It's like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe I'm not a submarine pilot. Yeah, there's still time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally wanted to be a submarine biologist because I'm seeing
Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid. Yeah yeah, um and yes, So many
Speaker 1: of the things that you have documented in your paintings
Speaker 1: are such like labyrinthy that's true. Yeah, And the Yeti
Speaker 1: crabs that I saw. The species they have this crazy
Speaker 1: behavior where they wave their pinchers above their heads continu
Speaker 1: uously and it looks like they're dancing. So they're very
Speaker 1: very fraggle, right, fraggle, and that's like a very fraggly
Speaker 1: type of dand like specifically the like kind of car wash.
Speaker 1: They're so cute, it's crazy. They Yeah, it's like totally dark,
Speaker 1: and then you look around and you just see all
Speaker 1: these like fuzzy fuzzy white claws waving at you, like
Speaker 1: every crevice. I thought i'd see like a handful of
Speaker 1: yetti crabs, but they're like hundreds of them. Are they
Speaker 1: doing it to pretend to be like a different like
Speaker 1: seaweed or something or what are they? I think it's
Speaker 1: because they're stirring up the sulfur in the water to
Speaker 1: feed the bacteria on their pinchers, because the ones that
Speaker 1: live around hydrothermal vents where it bursts out really dramatically,
Speaker 1: they don't do that. So it's only the ones that
Speaker 1: live at these like chemical sleeps where it comes out
Speaker 1: more slowly, so then they have to like stir up.
Speaker 1: It's this kind of creature that can't be brought up
Speaker 1: to sea level because it will just just like get
Speaker 1: destroyed the pressure. For the lack of pressure, I guess, well,
Speaker 1: actually it's more the change in temperature that I think,
Speaker 1: uh damages them in transit. But we actually did keep
Speaker 1: them alive on the ship for the whole time we
Speaker 1: were at sea, and they had they're so cute. They
Speaker 1: were in like um, they were in these like little
Speaker 1: containers and they didn't like fight with each other anything.
Speaker 1: They're just like very loving and they make all these
Speaker 1: like orgiastic piles on the floor, just like like the
Speaker 1: babies are in little crevices, but the adults all pile
Speaker 1: on each other. And that's also weird because most crustaceans
Speaker 1: don't like to touch each other unless they're having sex
Speaker 1: or fighting. But they're peaceful yeties. Yeah, they're peaceful, loving
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Life just like so boring to you know,
Speaker 1: you're like a person who went to space like that.
Speaker 1: I miss it all the time and missing Antarcticle all
Speaker 1: the time too. How long were you there in Antarctica? Uh? Days?
Speaker 1: And then I was there for a month and a
Speaker 1: half like two years prior, so like a total of
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's totally like the place from the thing.
Speaker 1: And then the way Lily would talk about it should
Speaker 1: be like there's an open mic night. Do you basically
Speaker 1: know everybody who's in Antarctica when you're there, Like it's
Speaker 1: like when I was there. Yeah, there's like, well, there's town,
Speaker 1: which is the research station McMurdo, and then they're like
Speaker 1: little field camps where you'll be with only like six
Speaker 1: other people or something. But yeah, I got to know
Speaker 1: most people in town. There's like a capacity of twelve
Speaker 1: hundred people. That's more than I would have thought. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not usually that full. And so yeah, it
Speaker 1: was so fun. It's like camp. There were three bars
Speaker 1: in town. Oh good drunken Antarctica. There's a Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of um. There's like a whole subculture. It's
Speaker 1: like the ice it's like ice cold burning man. Yes,
Speaker 1: they have freezing man. They're regional god Antarctica. Oh definitely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's drama rama yea. The scientists are called beakers
Speaker 1: and then the people who are like science support. Shoot,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, I'm so rusty, but yeah, they refer
Speaker 1: to the scientists as beakers, like in a derogatory way. Um,
Speaker 1: just like a slang way. And but yeah, there's sort
Speaker 1: of like if you're science support, you're there for the
Speaker 1: long haul, like um minimum of four months, and then
Speaker 1: some people stay for a full year, and most scientists
Speaker 1: are there for a shorter portion of that, so it's
Speaker 1: like you're not really native. But I was there a
Speaker 1: whole almost the whole season. I was in between. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't even is like going to space. It's such
Speaker 1: a it's such a different and especially to be there
Speaker 1: for that long or it does like it's long enough
Speaker 1: to become your normal. Yeah to You had a video
Speaker 1: in one of your shows. Yeah, under the Sea ice
Speaker 1: because I got to scuba dive. It's the largest expanse
Speaker 1: of sea ice in the world McMurdo Sound, and it's
Speaker 1: all like six ft thick. Yeah, this is where I
Speaker 1: was like, I would have checked. I could not do
Speaker 1: this because under the ice, Yeah, that's so scary. That's
Speaker 1: why I went in. It's so beautiful, Like on top
Speaker 1: it's just white, but underneath there's this like microalgae that
Speaker 1: grows in the ice that makes it glow like neon
Speaker 1: green and gold, and like the ice texture is super feathery,
Speaker 1: and it's just like the most My friend Henry Kaiser
Speaker 1: called it like mainlining LSD. It's just so so trippy,
Speaker 1: and you can see a thousand feet because there's nothing
Speaker 1: growing in the water because it been dark, and you're
Speaker 1: diving in like early spring, so there's like you feel
Speaker 1: like you're just flying through the air in this crazy
Speaker 1: landscape and there's like submerged glaciers and I would lose
Speaker 1: my mind immediately. Were you afraid you might just like
Speaker 1: swim off and become a mermaid, an nice mermaid I
Speaker 1: wanted to? Yeah, Yeah, it was like, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: other than the YETI craft. Do you have a favorite
Speaker 1: creature that you've encountered personally? Um? Uh, Well, my other
Speaker 1: favorite deep sea creature is probably the giant tube worm Riftia,
Speaker 1: which is the first deep sea creature that was discovered
Speaker 1: at hydrothermal vents in the seventies and they they're very
Speaker 1: like Freudian. They look like phallic and vaginal, and they
Speaker 1: get up to like six ft long, and they're just
Speaker 1: they're sort of iconic because they're like the first chemos
Speaker 1: the very sent seventies too, so it's very appropriate on trend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: basically I was a more for Halloween in second grade.
Speaker 1: A long love. Yeah, I think I saw or something.
Speaker 1: The two were predated back then. Yes, yeah, I'm really
Speaker 1: I'm back to my roots, right right, that was a diversion.
Speaker 1: There's probably no way of really knowing this, But are
Speaker 1: any of the animals that live that deep in the
Speaker 1: water smart animals because the two were octopi, But do
Speaker 1: they live like way that they do? Yeah? Yeah, Actually,
Speaker 1: there's a really cool photo I'll send you guys of
Speaker 1: the There's was an octopus that came up and shook
Speaker 1: hands with the sub, so you know this is like
Speaker 1: a pro octopus. H I've heard that as a seal friend.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there in Antarctica, the seals used to use
Speaker 1: our dive holes because they have to find cracks to
Speaker 1: breathe through in the sea ice and then we have
Speaker 1: dive holes that stay open like the whole season, so
Speaker 1: they would come to the dive holes and breathe and
Speaker 1: they just be there chilling, hanging out. Yeah, to wait
Speaker 1: for them to move away from the whole so you
Speaker 1: can leave. Were they friendly? Could you like approach? They
Speaker 1: were totally have a picture with one where it looks
Speaker 1: like it's a dog. It's like so cool. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: weren't friendly like the way dolphins might be friendly, but
Speaker 1: they were very present, like they would just be right
Speaker 1: next to you. Yeah, that's so cool. And they're huge.
Speaker 1: The Woodell Seals they're like, I don't know how big,
Speaker 1: but they're huge. The big baby bloppers. Yeah, we want
Speaker 1: to hug them all. Yeah. I mean the other thing
Speaker 1: about Baby Yoda is like, there's cuter things in real life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you can all of them, but the ones you
Speaker 1: can hug. Do you really think I have to circle
Speaker 1: back to this, but do you really think that Baby
Speaker 1: Yoda was intended to lift a flagging birthrate? As soon
Speaker 1: as I like, I believe it from my own personal
Speaker 1: experience of seeing Baby Yoda for the first time, But
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that if they didn't want
Speaker 1: to know that they know. But I had I had
Speaker 1: the thought. I had the thought first a listener had
Speaker 1: that thought. Yeah, so I guess it's provable. Now I
Speaker 1: feel like anything vaguely neotonous can trigger that reaction. It's
Speaker 1: the big eyes. I mean, yeah, I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a helplessness too. You're just like, I
Speaker 1: gotta help baby Yoda. So he doesn't even have his
Speaker 1: bass net anymore. Oh my god, it's gonna get so cold.
Speaker 1: When I thought you turned on him, I did turn
Speaker 1: on him. We don't have enough time to talk about why.
Speaker 1: This time I thought that there was a new image
Speaker 1: of Amy Sadaris carrying him. Oh my god. Um, well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much Lily for coming by and talking
Speaker 1: about your your twin interests more in common than also
Speaker 1: back there's still a chance. So um, she's waiting. Where
Speaker 1: can we find your work? Is there give a site
Speaker 1: or someplace where people can check out what you do.
Speaker 1: I have a show that's up right now at the
Speaker 1: Harvard Museum of Natural History, cool and it's up till March,
Speaker 1: so if you're in that area. And then also I
Speaker 1: have a website Lily Simonson dot com or Old genres
Speaker 1: dot com, which is like an art joke, like New
Speaker 1: Genres is like video and performance. So I got. I
Speaker 1: was very happy to get that you are l as
Speaker 1: a painter. I make paintings. I don't know if Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're also going to be painting an underground tunnel? Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: Where ye tunnel related to measure it? But it wasn't
Speaker 1: open on the weekends. Yeah, that's that's the Victoria Orphan
Speaker 1: is at Caltech and she's the one who studies the
Speaker 1: archaea in bacteria that help these deep sea communities thrive,
Speaker 1: provide food. We all the food chain. Can we take
Speaker 1: a Nightcall sojourn to an underground tunnel? Okay, perfect, we'll
Speaker 1: put that in the calendar. Maybe that will be our
Speaker 1: next tunnel to a lab. Yeah, it's very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um well, thanks so much for listening Tonight Call. If
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Speaker 1: We have another book Club episode coming out this month
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks, so get in now to
Speaker 1: get in on that um and yeah, we'll see you
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