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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking about game changing approach to financial

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Speaker 1: education with Dan Lastal Joel. Every week we talk about

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Speaker 1: personal finance, and one of the biggest reasons we talk

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Speaker 1: about and share lessons about money is because most people

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Speaker 1: have never had any sort of formal education when it

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Speaker 1: comes to their personal finances. Only seventeen states, including DC,

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Speaker 1: require a personal finance course to be taken, and of those,

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Speaker 1: only seven states participate in the standardized tests for that course.

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Speaker 1: It's unfortunate, but most states don't have a fun and

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Speaker 1: robust personal finance curriculum. Yeah that's lame. Yeah, it sucks.

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Speaker 1: For that reason, we're really excited to have Dan Lassalle

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Speaker 1: join us for this episode. Four years ago, as an

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Speaker 1: English teacher, Dan started a personal finance program that not

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Speaker 1: only teaches students the importance of budgeting, saving, and investing,

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Speaker 1: but also gives them the opportunity to earn up the

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Speaker 1: five thousand dollars a year and put that money into

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Speaker 1: a bank account of their own. He has created an

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Speaker 1: innovative course that is truly changing the lies of the

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Speaker 1: students enrolled. You know, Joel, it's also worth knowing that

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania doesn't require financial literacy as well, like they're one

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Speaker 1: of the states that's not included. That really makes us

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Speaker 1: even more impressive. Yeah, Dan's doing it anyway, all right,

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Speaker 1: But before we bring Dan on real quick, I want

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Speaker 1: to mention the beer that we're having on the show,

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Speaker 1: and actually first time ever we're having a cider instead

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Speaker 1: of a beer. So this is called Happy Trees by

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Speaker 1: Ancho And by the way, I can already tell this

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Speaker 1: is going to be almost as good as having a beer.

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Speaker 1: That this is a delightful sider and I look forward

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Speaker 1: to uh yeah, talking more about this at the end

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Speaker 1: of the episode. But let's bring on Dan. Dan, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us on the podcast today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you guys.

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Speaker 1: The first question we ask anybody that we have on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, Dan, is you know, like, like we just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: we're having a beer, well actually a cider today, right,

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Speaker 1: we have a beer on the show every week and

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Speaker 1: strained from our roots tral we are we are. So

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Speaker 1: we want to know what's your craft beer equivalent, Like

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Speaker 1: what do you splurge on from time to time? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and mine's probably definitely going to be an unconventional answer,

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Speaker 1: but it is a sweet green salad. So you know

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Speaker 1: those salad places where you can get luxury salad. I

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Speaker 1: spent like twenty dollars on one and really go to work.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely consider that my splurge item twenty salad.

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Speaker 1: That is impressive. Man, So how often do you allow

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Speaker 1: yourself to indulge in this expensive salad? Great question. You're

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Speaker 1: talking to a finance person who sort of budgets a

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Speaker 1: little too much, so it's usually about once every two weeks,

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Speaker 1: and man, do I enjoy it? Wait? So, like, what

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Speaker 1: do you normally put on the sile that allows it

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Speaker 1: to be twenty dollars? All different types of grilled chicken,

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Speaker 1: different cheeses, different cooked and raw vegetables. So I just

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Speaker 1: loaded up twenty dollars later, I've got a great meal

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Speaker 1: and uh, the most expensive salad compared to what anyone

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Speaker 1: else probably would pay. Yeah, the most expensive salad known something.

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Speaker 1: And that's impressive. Dan, I like that. All right, Dan,

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Speaker 1: let's kind of dive into what we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about on this episode, which is financial education, specifically within

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Speaker 1: the school system. Quickly, I think a way for us

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Speaker 1: to explain to the listener what you do might be

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Speaker 1: for you to kind of give an example or an

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Speaker 1: anecdote of a student who has kind of gone through

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Speaker 1: your program. Can you pain a quick picture for us

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Speaker 1: by giving us an example. A good example would be Sarah. So,

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Speaker 1: she had at one point an interest in being a

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Speaker 1: social worker. So we set her up with the job

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Speaker 1: at a school volunteering with some students with very severe

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Speaker 1: learning disabilities. So she would give up her lunch and

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Speaker 1: pretty much what was her study hall period to work

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Speaker 1: with students with severe disabilities and would bring her friends.

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Speaker 1: So we would set up that program for her. She

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Speaker 1: would work. Essentially, I would give her some money, and

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Speaker 1: then during the day she would be in a financial

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Speaker 1: literacy class where she would learn about money and then

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Speaker 1: also learn about what to do with the actual money

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Speaker 1: she's earned. One of the coolest things about your program, Dan,

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Speaker 1: is that you actually give kids the ability to earn

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Speaker 1: money at school, and so you're you're actually giving them

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Speaker 1: kind of this hands on ability. And we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to that in just a minute. That almost no other

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Speaker 1: financial literacy program I've heard of incorporates, But for you,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know what came first. Did you see

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Speaker 1: the importance of financial literacy and want to find a

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Speaker 1: way to teach your students or did you see a

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Speaker 1: need within your students first and then develop the curriculum

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Speaker 1: kind of around that with them in mind. So I

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Speaker 1: think it was probably a mix of both. As a

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Speaker 1: teacher in Philadelphia City schools, you sort of see yourself

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Speaker 1: earning less money compared to other people, and then you

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Speaker 1: start to recognize sort of the importance of wealth generation

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Speaker 1: and how it takes a long but gradual process. And

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Speaker 1: then also having seen many students and families struggle with bills,

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Speaker 1: struggle with rent, mortgage payments, everything, it's just sort of

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Speaker 1: emerged over the years that this became not only a

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Speaker 1: topic that's important for everyone, but something that should really

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Speaker 1: start at a young age, especially when you have a

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Speaker 1: pretty plastic financial situation where you know you are young

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Speaker 1: enough and haven't made big enough decisions to get a car,

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Speaker 1: go to college, anything like that yet, so that you

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Speaker 1: could really follow all of the principles of becoming wealthy

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Speaker 1: that we all know ten twenty thirty years later, when

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's too late. Yeah, I mean, that's something that

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Speaker 1: Matt and I've talked about on the show before, and

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Speaker 1: something that we're passionate about is seeing kids especially at

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Speaker 1: that age right because that that's when we are we're

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Speaker 1: sending them out to get massive amounts of college debt.

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Speaker 1: Kids are accruing student loan debt at at record paces

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Speaker 1: right now, and they have no idea what they're doing. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: the front lines really in this fight are in high school,

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Speaker 1: and that's the place that we have actually put up

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Speaker 1: the least of of an effort for the most part.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's the biggest reason we wanted

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Speaker 1: to have you on is because it is such a

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Speaker 1: battleground to see that you're actually taking it seriously and

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Speaker 1: you're making actual strides in lots of kids lives in

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Speaker 1: how you teach them about personal finance. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into some of the nuts and bolts,

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Speaker 1: but I just wanted to mention that, like, it is

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Speaker 1: the most important time to cheech kids about personal finance,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that we're not doing. Yeah, I really agree.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, from like the

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Speaker 1: age of sixteen to twenty two, I really think there's

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Speaker 1: like a financial developmental window, Like you know about like

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Speaker 1: literacy develop developmental windows when you're at a young age,

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Speaker 1: or like second language windows to learn a second language.

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Speaker 1: But between the ages of sixteen and twenty two, you're

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Speaker 1: eligible to start having your first job. You can actually

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Speaker 1: create your own savings and checking account. You can even

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Speaker 1: set up a custodial or your own investment account. You

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Speaker 1: are eligible to take out major loans, whether it be

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Speaker 1: for cars for college. So really, in that six year period,

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Speaker 1: it's a time to really make some great decisions. But

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Speaker 1: it's also time where you're really really vulnerable. And I

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Speaker 1: really think that if you aren't wise to the way

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Speaker 1: money works and the way that you should spend your money,

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Speaker 1: then you're really at a position to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: and dare I say, make mistakes that could start to

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Speaker 1: take years of not decades to get out of. We agree, right,

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Speaker 1: like we know that these concepts can change lives. How

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Speaker 1: did you see this as a possibility with your students

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Speaker 1: when maybe others didn't. Was it just matter of you

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Speaker 1: thinking about it or do you feel that there are

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Speaker 1: other things sort of stacked against your school specifically or

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Speaker 1: your students? Uh? Yeah, Like what kind of give you

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Speaker 1: that hope to think that this is something that could

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Speaker 1: actually be done. Really, I think it started when the

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Speaker 1: program began several years ago. All I knew at the

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Speaker 1: very core is I wanted to set up raw Ira accounts,

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Speaker 1: and I know that on your podcast you had talked

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Speaker 1: about the beauty of a raw ira, and I really

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Speaker 1: knew that that was just something that like, any eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old who's graduating this school should know. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're gonna be maxing out their raw ira,

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Speaker 1: you know, six thousand dollars a year, but at least

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Speaker 1: know that this is something that they should really return to.

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Speaker 1: And then just as I became more familiar with students

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Speaker 1: financial needs and their families because I teach in a

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Speaker 1: high poverty school, so a hundred percent of our lunches

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Speaker 1: are free for students, it became clear that it's not

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Speaker 1: just raw THI raise, like, you need to understand how

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Speaker 1: insurance works, how just generally checking savings, the entire banking

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Speaker 1: industry works, predatory lending credit cards to work. So it's

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Speaker 1: started with the idea of like just getting students to

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Speaker 1: not be scared of the stock market and to actually

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Speaker 1: embrace it and to know a couple of key things

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Speaker 1: about it. But then over each passing year, I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to expand into just anything and everything you need

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Speaker 1: to know about money, just teaching it to teenagers and

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Speaker 1: their families. Dan, how did you learn all this stuff yourself?

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Speaker 1: You're pretty young, So what was it that made you

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Speaker 1: aware of kind of all these areas of personal finance

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Speaker 1: where you know you could start to change your future

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Speaker 1: ahead of you know, most people, because you're still a

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Speaker 1: youngster yourself. For me, it started probably right around the

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Speaker 1: time I was graduating high school, and it just became

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Speaker 1: very clear that the world is overpriced, especially to the

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Speaker 1: smart consumer. So I went to community college over four

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Speaker 1: year university, and to me, by the time I graduated

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Speaker 1: high school was just so clear, like why would I

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Speaker 1: take calculus in a giant lecture hall when I know

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Speaker 1: that I'd rather take my time on this. And then

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Speaker 1: even after I graduated college, when students are doing research

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Speaker 1: experience internships, what part of the city to live in?

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Speaker 1: Should they get a car or take public transportation? It

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Speaker 1: really just became hear to me that if you understand

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Speaker 1: how money works, you understand really what you can pay

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Speaker 1: for what you can maybe get a better deal on.

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Speaker 1: You can end up living doing all the things that

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Speaker 1: you really want to in life and just having more

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Speaker 1: money left over because you weren't tricked into buying something

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Speaker 1: or a service that you didn't need. That's great. You know,

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Speaker 1: what you said is that the world is overpriced, which, man,

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Speaker 1: something about that really strikes a chord with me. And

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Speaker 1: it's is it that it's overpriced, you know, or is

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Speaker 1: it is it marketed to be more expensive and for

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Speaker 1: there to be more money maybe going into the pockets

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Speaker 1: of corporations. And I don't want to get to like

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Speaker 1: corporations are evil sort of thing, but there's there's something

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Speaker 1: about that about the world being overpriced that kind of

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Speaker 1: resonates with me. I mean, I think right, every purchase

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Speaker 1: is essentially it's a status choice. So you can either

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Speaker 1: choose to sort of display something about you, whether you're

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Speaker 1: buying a BMW or an Audi, or you can go

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Speaker 1: for something like in the case of a car, like

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Speaker 1: a Toyota is something that will do just these good

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Speaker 1: of a job more functional. So really, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, there are certain things that we all

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Speaker 1: will want to choose status over, whether it's a cool

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Speaker 1: T shirt or the university we went to and then

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Speaker 1: other times we realize that I'm gonna pick function over status.

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Speaker 1: So I think that at least in this country, especially

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Speaker 1: because so much of our economy is, you know, driven

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Speaker 1: by consumerism. But you know, you know, it's not an

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Speaker 1: economics podcast, but every purchase we could make, we're always

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Speaker 1: going to have a variety of options because someone's gonna

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Speaker 1: want the shiny or flash your thing, and someone's gonna

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Speaker 1: want just the same thing. But just all it does

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Speaker 1: is serve up function without a certain status attached to it.

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Speaker 1: So I think that might explain why that is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we also have the ability to choose future

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Speaker 1: flexibility over status, right, And that's kind of what we

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Speaker 1: talk about a lot on this show, is is that

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Speaker 1: there's all these choices you can make with your money,

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Speaker 1: and really all these small choices and all these big

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Speaker 1: choices that we discussed every week. It's truly the chance

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Speaker 1: to choose your own future flexibility and to design your

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Speaker 1: own life in a certain way, as opposed to having

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Speaker 1: choices made for you based on poor spending and poor

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Speaker 1: choices and poor habits. And so that's why I found

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Speaker 1: this quote actually that that from you really interesting. Dan

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Speaker 1: you said essentially that anybody from humble beginnings can live frugally,

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Speaker 1: invest ten the paycheck in low cost ets and become

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Speaker 1: a millionaire. And you're a teacher right in like we said,

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Speaker 1: an impoverished neighborhood in Philadelphia. These kids don't come from

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Speaker 1: lots of money. They don't come from probably even households

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Speaker 1: where there is a lot of money discussion happening in

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Speaker 1: the house, right, And so you're kind of taking that

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Speaker 1: on your own shoulders. But I find it fascinating that

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Speaker 1: you have this strongly held belief that anybody can do this.

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Speaker 1: All of your students can take part in this, in

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Speaker 1: this truth that you can become over time if you

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Speaker 1: live frually and invest tend to of what you make,

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Speaker 1: you can become wealthy. Tell us why you believe that

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Speaker 1: so strongly? The evidence is just there, right. There has

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Speaker 1: never been a thirty year period in all American history

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Speaker 1: where the stock market hasn't averaged, not encounting for a

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Speaker 1: flate inflation, six percent annual returns a year. So you know,

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Speaker 1: stock market is very volatile, but over the long term,

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Speaker 1: that's what it averages a year. So if you invest

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Speaker 1: and you stay with it, you're going to make lots

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Speaker 1: of money. No reason that over time we can ever

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Speaker 1: expect American property values to ever do anything but increase.

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Speaker 1: I mean, right, think of the great things that are

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Speaker 1: always incurring the innovation in this country. Why wouldn't having

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Speaker 1: a home somewhere in this country eventu would be worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: Now not saying that everyone should invest at the same

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Speaker 1: time or in their life, or that everyone needs a house,

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Speaker 1: but there do seem to be these things which I

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Speaker 1: think I become increasingly grateful for that just sort of

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Speaker 1: exists in our society. That mean that we can, if

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Speaker 1: we are disciplined and wise, make choices which do allow

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Speaker 1: us to accumulate wealth and then not be fearful of finances. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so great. And like Joel said, this is what

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Speaker 1: we talk about every single week. And so even though

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Speaker 1: we're just you know, we're about to dive into the

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Speaker 1: program like what you have set up there at the school,

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Speaker 1: these are things that as individuals, in our own jobs,

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Speaker 1: in our in our own communities, not in school, that

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Speaker 1: we practice and something that anybody listening to this, whether

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Speaker 1: or not they have wildren are not are our concepts

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Speaker 1: and principles that are good to be reminded of and

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Speaker 1: things that I mean that are good for Joel Night

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Speaker 1: remind ourselves as well. So so damn we're gonna hear

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Speaker 1: more about the specific program that you have set up

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Speaker 1: there at your school, but first we're gonna take a

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Speaker 1: quick break. All right, We're back from the break back

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Speaker 1: with Dan LaSalle talking about his game changing approach to

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Speaker 1: financial education that he has taken into his local school

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Speaker 1: in inner City Philadelphia. And real quick, is there a

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Speaker 1: name for the program? DWN like we kind of we

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Speaker 1: we we refer to the program as dance program, but

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Speaker 1: what's the official name. I've been calling it the Philly

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Speaker 1: Finance Cooperative. But because like I take donated money, I

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Speaker 1: take that money, I turn it into student paychecks to

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Speaker 1: help them manage their account. So I'd like to think

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Speaker 1: there's like a cooperative element, but legally, I'm not technically

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Speaker 1: a cooperative and so I'm actually in the process of

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Speaker 1: filing for nonprofit status because ever since the that market

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Speaker 1: Watch article came out, a couple other schools have reached

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Speaker 1: out for me to help them, and I'm like so

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Speaker 1: down to do that, but cooperative is not like a

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Speaker 1: legally good word because I'm technically not a cooperative, So

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Speaker 1: there's a better name that's got to come at some point.

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Speaker 1: You want to be just like ari I basically right,

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Speaker 1: like they're a co op. So exactly, So, Dan, what

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Speaker 1: is it that makes the Philly Finance co Op soon

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Speaker 1: to be name changed? What is it that makes your

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Speaker 1: program different than any other sort of personal finance education

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Speaker 1: program going on in in any other high school around

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Speaker 1: the country. So it's definitely the only one like this

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Speaker 1: in the country. The first thing is is we teach

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Speaker 1: students but financial literacy. That one's not so different. The

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Speaker 1: second is is we give students actual paychecks for jobs

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Speaker 1: around the school and in the community, so it's meant

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Speaker 1: to be some type of job that just makes the

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Speaker 1: community or school better. And then we set up students

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Speaker 1: with checking savings and investment accounts so that students can

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Speaker 1: practice all the principles of wealth generation that we talked

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Speaker 1: about in the class budgeting investing, they can practice that

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Speaker 1: with their actual money. Because right, you wouldn't want a

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Speaker 1: doctor that wasn't interning under doctors as a medical school student.

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Speaker 1: Lawyers are often clerks for judges first, So if you

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Speaker 1: are someone young and inexperience with money, especially if you

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Speaker 1: come from a high poverty background. I think it's safe

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Speaker 1: to say that exposure to money, with real money at

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Speaker 1: a young age is probably going to be beneficial. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So on the note, like, like you said, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about real money, right, and so I'm assuming these these

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Speaker 1: students are they have real jobs you mentioned one earlier, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are some other examples of jobs that they're doing,

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Speaker 1: like within the school you said within the community as well,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. What are some other examples I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear some of these positions that these students have. Great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I have one student who has started a spoken

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Speaker 1: word club and competes in the city and is actually

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Speaker 1: going through the process of filing for his own nonprofit status,

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Speaker 1: so while he's in college he can help other schools

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Speaker 1: start up spoken word poetry teams. I've hate some students

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Speaker 1: to be captains of the debate team. We've had a

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Speaker 1: student newspaper. We've had students that have gone to the

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Speaker 1: local elementary school to teach finance to elementary school students.

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Speaker 1: We've had a couple female students set up a peer

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Speaker 1: mentoring group just for other female students who are students

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Speaker 1: who identify as female. So really, if students have a

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Speaker 1: real yearning to make the school and community better, and

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Speaker 1: they often do, it's just trying to find a place

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Speaker 1: that they can put that interest to the betterment of

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Speaker 1: the school and community, and then I just, you know,

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Speaker 1: throw them some money for it. So does the fact

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Speaker 1: that the kids that take your financial literacy class, that

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Speaker 1: enter into this, does the fact that they get paid

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Speaker 1: make that the most popular class in the school? I think? So?

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Speaker 1: I mean, every student wants to be in it, and

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Speaker 1: I really hope it's because that they are committed to

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Speaker 1: being millionaires and saving and budgeting. But something tells me

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Speaker 1: it's a fact that some students walk around the school

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Speaker 1: with a several thousand dollar check. Is there any requirement

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Speaker 1: for kids that enter the class and start making money

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Speaker 1: based on the job they're doing, the service they're performing.

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Speaker 1: Is there any requirement for where that money goes. I

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Speaker 1: do think the program is effective, But I think that

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons it's effective is because I don't

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Speaker 1: have any strings attached to how they spend their money.

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Speaker 1: Because if I am telling that they have to save

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Speaker 1: a certain percent, they have to invest a certain part

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Speaker 1: I'm sure any parent would say, you know, as soon

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Speaker 1: as they require something too much that the student or

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Speaker 1: the kid hasn't really believed in themselves. As soon as

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Speaker 1: I'm out of the picture, they're gonna do whatever they

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Speaker 1: want with their money. So I'd rather them make their

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Speaker 1: mistakes now, have those conversations with me, like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: plan to budget of my money, but I spent all

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Speaker 1: of it at prom, or I spent all of it

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Speaker 1: on a gift from my girlfriend or boyfriend, and then

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Speaker 1: really having those conversations and figuring out how to turn

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Speaker 1: a spender into a saver and just come up with

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Speaker 1: budgeting plans at work for everybody. So that's why I

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Speaker 1: am very passionate about actually not telling them what to

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Speaker 1: do with their money once they've earned it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that's great too, because kids can almost make

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Speaker 1: this huge mistake on a microcosm level, like spending it

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Speaker 1: all on prom right. That's the equivalent of someone are

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Speaker 1: a racking up in credit card debt or something like that, right,

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Speaker 1: And so they're making this enormous mistake that you know,

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Speaker 1: their own world, in their own world, that was maybe,

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Speaker 1: but you're able to kind of do a post mortem

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Speaker 1: and discuss after the fact, and maybe that prevents them

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Speaker 1: from five years down the road racking up too much

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Speaker 1: credit card debt. So that's kind of cool. That's what

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Speaker 1: I want to believe, because I think that that's how

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Speaker 1: it works, right. If we realize that we've made a mistake,

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Speaker 1: we tend to be really grateful that it wasn't bigger

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Speaker 1: after we've gotten over the fact and the guilt that

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Speaker 1: we have made that mistake. And what's interesting is that

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Speaker 1: I think something that really is helpful for my students

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Speaker 1: to identify with is no one likes owing anyone a favor,

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Speaker 1: and no one likes owing anything to anyone, and so

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Speaker 1: debt is the equivalent of that. And to realize that

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Speaker 1: they had certain plans for money to last them through

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Speaker 1: the summer, through winter break, throughout the year, and to

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Speaker 1: see themselves put in a situation where they don't have

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Speaker 1: that money, where they could feel tempted to borrow, or

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Speaker 1: just to realize that their dollars didn't get as far

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Speaker 1: as they thought they would, or they didn't have the

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Speaker 1: discipline to do that. Coming to terms with how effective

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Speaker 1: they are at knowing themselves with money should make them

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Speaker 1: less likely to make those mistakes you're talking about later. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's so true, And I mean that's just what's so

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Speaker 1: powerful about what you're doing is that, again it's real money.

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Speaker 1: You're allowing them to make the mistakes now while they

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Speaker 1: have you sort of overseeing them, right, Like I mean,

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Speaker 1: essentially you're kind of acting like a money coach. And

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Speaker 1: then with within this sort of framework, they have the

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Speaker 1: freedom to truly fail. They might waste that money, like

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Speaker 1: you said, and they don't get through winter break, and

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Speaker 1: they have to report back to you. I guess, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess with the with the course, you can explain

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Speaker 1: more how it works. I guess in a little bit here.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, like they have to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: It's not like something they can just go off and

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Speaker 1: open up another credit card. So if you're a twenty

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Speaker 1: year old and out of school, that's maybe what you

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Speaker 1: would do. You would make your your mistake and then

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Speaker 1: we'll shoot, maybe I need need to go get a

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Speaker 1: payday loan, Maybe I need to open another credit card.

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Speaker 1: What are some other ways that I can kind of

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Speaker 1: keep the money flowing and might double down on that mistake. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and and and it only compounds. I mean quite literally

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Speaker 1: at that point as well. And but when they're able

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Speaker 1: to make these sticks in a controlled sort of lab

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Speaker 1: but with real money and with the real consequences, it's

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Speaker 1: no wonder that these kids are truly learning, you know,

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Speaker 1: the impact of being wise with the money and how

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Speaker 1: that affects their their sort of bottom line. So so

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Speaker 1: speaking of that, Dan, I want to get into the

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Speaker 1: specifics on how you teach kids about investing, because we've

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Speaker 1: talked about the stock market game. I think most of

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Speaker 1: us probably played the stock market game when we were

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Speaker 1: in high school. I know both Matt and I did,

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Speaker 1: and it just feels like you're pressing buttons and your

433
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: gambling and you're trying to beat out the other. You

434
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: don't really learn anything about wealth growth by doing that.

435
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: So how do you teach your kids about investing in

436
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: order to try to help make it stick and make

437
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: it easy? I first by say that if anyone who

438
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: is familiar with the stock market game, is actually everything

439
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: wrong with investing in that game? Yes, because and I

440
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 1: don't know if you've talked about this before in your podcast,

441
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 1: but you get the most money from selling and trading

442
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: as much as possible. But really the key to making

443
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: money in the stock market is getting very diverse mutual funds,

444
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: so very diverse groups of stocks of companies that usually

445
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: perform in a specific industry, So all the tech companies,

446
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: all the top healthcare companies, or a sampling of the

447
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: entire stock markets to the SMP five hundred and just

448
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: not even checking it maybe once a year looking at

449
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: their performance because over the long run it increases. But

450
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: I think, really, how I get them excited about the

451
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: stock market is there's just never been a thirty year

452
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: period in American history where it hasn't average six percent

453
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,479
Speaker 1: annual yearly return, not accounting for inflation. The stock market

454
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: is the single greatest generator of human wealth in the

455
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: history of human civilization. If you just have the discipline

456
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: to purchase these exchange traded funds, these mutual funds, these

457
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: groups of stocks that just track the stock market, just

458
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: track industries, because right, when would we ever expect the

459
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: American stock market to not grow over decades? When would

460
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: we not expect the tech sector of America to not

461
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: gradually increase over decades. I try and make it interesting

462
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: because it is such a powerful generator of wealth, and

463
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: the smart strategy is actually doing the least is touching

464
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: it the least. So I think there's just a little

465
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: bit of magnetism to knowing that something so powerful can

466
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: also be so simple. So how do you get a

467
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: sixteen year old to be like, well, that's cool, I

468
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: want to do that for the next thirty years. So

469
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: I think that the key defining stocks in the stock

470
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: market fascinating is to just see the growth of different

471
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: industries in America. You have to have some sort of

472
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: appreciation for the growth of cars in America before we

473
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: just see this immense amount of competition from Toyota, Subaru

474
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: and other companies. To see what Facebook and Tesla and

475
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 1: other major companies are doing. And once you get an

476
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: appreciation for just how much the private industry can sort

477
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: of generate real novelty and innovation, and then to just

478
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: get excited by just waiting for these sort of trends

479
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 1: to just continue over time is I think a real

480
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: hooking point. Because everyone finds Google, glasses, everything super cool,

481
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 1: but it's just getting them to realize that once you

482
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: find all of these cool things that our country and

483
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: businesses are doing, the next step is actually just to

484
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: buy some diverse mutual funds and then just wait, You're

485
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: talked about a couple of companies in particular, and you

486
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: mentioned Tesla, and I think, you know, one of the

487
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: most fascinating things that I've ever seen in a chart

488
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: is essentially if you had, instead of buying the first

489
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: Apple computer, if you had bought stock and Apple, and

490
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: then there's this timeline, there's this progression of every time

491
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: Apple released a product, there's the equivalent of if you

492
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: had spent that much money buying Apple stock instead of

493
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: buying the Apple productual product, how rich you would be.

494
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: And I think that to me encapsulates exactly this lesson

495
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: that you're trying to teach. It's showing like, this is

496
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: what American innovation looks like. And you can go buy stuff.

497
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: You can go buy what they're selling, or you can

498
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: go invest in the company and you can make healthy

499
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: returns and essentially set yourself up for life by investing

500
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: well as opposed to buying the stuff that those companies

501
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: are selling. And I think that's I mean, that's a

502
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: fascinating concept. That's awesome, Joel Dan. Everyone has a different

503
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: why behind their money. We talked about that a good

504
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: bit on the show. Sort of the motivator behind our money,

505
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: essentially the why behind our money. So, how do you

506
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: teach personal finance in a way where students who have

507
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: different life goals, whether that be like college, going straight

508
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: into the workforce, going to trade school, or even the military.

509
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: How do you teach personal finance in a way that

510
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: all of those students find the material interesting and relevant.

511
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: So the first thing is to teach them that personal

512
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: finance is all about freedom, that learning about money is

513
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: to pretty much afford your own freedom to do what

514
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: you want with your life. So if you want to

515
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: have a job as a NASA astronaut and you need

516
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: to go get your PhD first, or if you consider

517
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: yourself that you're gonna have like a big family and

518
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: you want to take care of your grandparents, so you

519
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: know that you've got to have a lucrative career at

520
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: first to make sure that your mom and grand mom

521
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: are taken care of, and then go do something that

522
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: really excites you, like writing a book. Really, finance is

523
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: the ability to fund and live in a forward the

524
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: craziest dreams that you have. So if you are someone

525
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: who wants to be a chef by day and a

526
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: poetry writer by night, this is just the tool to

527
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: being able to do whatever you want. And so it's

528
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: getting them to realize that managing your money is a

529
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: bit of a superpower. It's the way and wish that

530
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: you can afford all of the choices that you want

531
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: to have. So, for example, one of our first projects

532
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: is to design a retirement plan. So the very first

533
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: project and lesson that we do in the class is

534
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: for them to envision what they want the last ten

535
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: to twenty thirty years to be. So is it having

536
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: multiple beach houses? Now if if you know that you

537
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: want to spend the last thirty years of your life

538
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: totally relaxing, well, what do you think it's gonna be

539
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: like twenty years before that? So maybe when they're fifty

540
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: years old, how old will their kids be? Do they

541
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: want their kids to not have to struggle through certain things?

542
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: So in that case, how much money should you have saved?

543
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: What types of things are you gonna want to have

544
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: to spend in order to provide certain allowances and comforts

545
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: for your family? And then we just back it up

546
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: to present day. So right, their first immediate decision is

547
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: going to be what do they do after they leave

548
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: high school? But it's keeping in mind all of the

549
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: goals that they have for themselves and their loved ones

550
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: decades in the future. Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, you start

551
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: with that end in mind, and then once you know

552
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: that goal and what you're trying to achieve, you can

553
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: you can do anything. And I think too, when we're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,

554
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: it's really hard for for I don't know. I don't

555
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: think I had many major goals at that point in

556
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: time when I was that age. It's kind of hard

557
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: to think that far in the future. But you need

558
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: someone to kind of prod you in that direction, because

559
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: if you don't have that end in mind, then it's

560
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: so much harder to do the due diligence now and

561
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: make the changes. So yeah, I love that you're doing that.

562
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: How are you teaching kids about saving and budgeting? How

563
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: are you connecting the dots when it comes to those

564
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: two things. We have like a five step method, and

565
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: the goal at the end of step five is to

566
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: be able to write afford that the life they want.

567
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: So step one is visualize their legacy and their retirement. So,

568
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, I talked a little bit about that, but

569
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: it's really envisioning everything they want. So then step two

570
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: is is that they've got to live below their means.

571
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: So before I even talk about saving and investing, is like,

572
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: when there's a variety of options for you to pay

573
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: for things, the more you go for the cheaper thing,

574
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: the more you have money left over. And when you

575
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: have the money left over, and if you save that

576
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: and then you invest in some of your savings, now

577
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: you're on the path to being able to afford all

578
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: of those things that you visualized about. So I tell

579
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: them these are standard beliefs in the industry. But they

580
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: say that, you know, you should save ten to twenty

581
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: of your income. So that's what I tell them. I mean, ideally,

582
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: I tell them you should. You know, you're all teenagers.

583
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: You many of you may end up using some of

584
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: your money to support your family. But I could see

585
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: you saving fifty of your paycheck. But I say it

586
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: is like, look, the experts will tell you in your life,

587
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: save ten to of your paycheck that first paycheck out

588
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: of college until the time you retire. So we're gonna

589
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: start with that now, So save ten. So I'm sure

590
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: many of them will go on and maybe save in

591
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: a different way. They might put an entire paycheck every

592
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: couple months into their savings. They may choose to save

593
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: fifty of their paycheck, and then a year from then

594
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: they'll only save five. So dan is one thing for

595
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: them to learn some of this concept now right and

596
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: for them to put some of those principles into practice

597
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: right now as well. Like, how do you feel about

598
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: these students after they graduate? Is there a way that

599
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: you feel you're able to kind of connect them on

600
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: a level that allows them to see sort of that

601
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: long term right? Like we've talked about setting goals, but like,

602
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: how do you make that connection of Hey, once you

603
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: leave high school and you do get that first job,

604
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: how do you encourage them to basically continue down that

605
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: path other than just what you've already taught them. Is

606
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: there a way that you feel that you're able to

607
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: connect connect with them on that level? Great question? I mean, really,

608
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is one of the big problems

609
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: in clouds is sort of haunts all social science, right, Like,

610
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: after you've done an intervention and you see promising results,

611
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: what makes you think that these promising results will continue,

612
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, into eternity. So one advantage I have is

613
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: that we set them up with bank accounts. So we

614
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: take them two trips to the local bank credit unions.

615
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: We get them set up with a checking, a saving account,

616
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: I get them set up with a budget. So really,

617
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's this idea of primacy. What you learned

618
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: first often has an imprint in your mind where you

619
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: connect other ideas too. So they can have this bank

620
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: account as long as they want. And many eighteen year

621
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: olds we set them up with a roth ira a

622
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: as soon as they graduate, because you know, they're turning

623
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: eighteen by the time they graduate, even though they maybe

624
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: in my program a few years before that. So part

625
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: of leading to I think long term change, which of

626
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: course is the goal. One advantage we have is that

627
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: we have the bank accounts, which lasts them. And I

628
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: mean I'm always an email away for them to be

629
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: in contact with many students who come and maybe come

630
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: up to the high school to get a transcript, and

631
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: I see them, you know, I'm always like, tell me

632
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: how much is in your savings account? What are you

633
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: invested in? And and and you know, as soon as

634
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: they see me, they can just see me coming down

635
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: the halls and they know it's gonna be my first

636
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: question I'm gonna ask, and if they just blew it

637
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: all on sneakers, they start running the other way, right, right,

638
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: But I think that what makes that question so great

639
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: is right is the goal is is that long term

640
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: there may king healthy financial decisions. And that's harder and

641
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: harder as you enter the very complex world with very

642
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: complex financial decisions that come houses, college jobs, apartments, leases,

643
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: used cars, new cars. So my only hope is that

644
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: even though they have these bank accounts, even though I'm

645
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: only you know, a correspondence away via email, is that

646
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: they are reflective enough that when they do make poor decisions,

647
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure all of us still have buyer's remorse from

648
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: time to time that they are just able to reflect

649
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: on it, unstick themselves and just being that upward trajectory

650
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: of just making better and better financial decisions that we

651
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: all hope to be on with each passing year. Yeah,

652
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that you're setting them up with

653
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: accounts at a local credit union and then trying to

654
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: help them open up a wrath as they're graduating. I mean,

655
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: those two steps right there are are huge, and I

656
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: think just having those accounts open one at a good

657
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: institution like a local credit union and then actually having

658
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: the wrath open is huge because there's so much we

659
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: can tell people to do stuff, but actually helping them,

660
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: especially at that age, do the work, take that first step.

661
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: I think you're totally right to that idea of primacy.

662
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: It's it's actually doing it and having someone help you

663
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: do it is is huge to making sure that there's

664
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: actually followed through and buy in and kind of that

665
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: continued ability to take advantage of of what you've been taught.

666
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 1: And one more thing I wanted to note Dan is like,

667
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned, how would you see a student

668
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: who's been in your program or been in the courts?

669
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: You know, you you head straight towards them and you

670
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: ask them how much money is in their bank account?

671
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: Do you realize how weird that is? Oh, super weird,

672
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: super weird. You should see the adults around me. They're like, well, like,

673
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: why would you ask that? I was like, look, I've

674
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: I've been with this student, I've known this family for

675
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: a while so and I'm giving them paychecks for a

676
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: couple of years, so I I better ask how much

677
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: is in their savings? And I'm about to turn to

678
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: mom and dad right there and be like, look, that

679
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: is like, let me pull up my Excel chart, because

680
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: that is three dollars lesson you told me last time,

681
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: and you specifically told me you were budgeting for a

682
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars by this time this year, So what happened?

683
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: I think that we we all have nagging parents and friends,

684
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: but there's something to be said about someone who's always

685
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: giving you that gentle reminder of what you should do. Completely. Yeah,

686
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to just setting the habits right.

687
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: And so if that's a conversation that they're used to

688
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: having with somebody, well guess what, They're going to continue

689
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: to have those conversations with their friends, with their family.

690
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: And that's a way, aside from the formal education that

691
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: they're getting within the program, within the school and from you,

692
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: they're learning from each other and it's a discussion that

693
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: they're having. And for us, like on the podcast, that's

694
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: a huge reason why we talk about money is just

695
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: to have these conversations and to normalize it. We talked

696
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: about how there's it's aboo around money and how it's

697
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: not something that people talk about freely and openly like that,

698
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: and so I just wanted to know that you are

699
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: a weirdo like us and free to talk about money

700
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: like that with a student. I think that's amazing. That's

701
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: just something we want to see more of. So kudos

702
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: do you, man? So how do the teachers feel about

703
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: you asking how much they've been budgeting and saving? So

704
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: I've had a couple of teachers approach me about helping

705
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: them with their finances, and they know that I love

706
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: talking about it. So when there are other adults families

707
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: in the building, because it's you know, comes up, I

708
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: have people to show up to my door and ask

709
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: me questions. I love it. You've got the open door policy.

710
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: That's great, that's right. And I mean I'm also like

711
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: super open about my finances. So when they ask me

712
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: how much money I make, I make it very clear.

713
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: When they're like, how much do you spend on rent?

714
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: You know, I feel right, It's it's all what we model.

715
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: So money can be very exciting, and what makes money

716
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: so powerful is also the fact that it can be

717
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: very frightening and debilitating for people. So I think that, right, like,

718
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: money has power, but you want to give it the

719
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: right type of power. So keeping it hidden in secret

720
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,239
Speaker 1: can be problematic when it's a learning experience, So you're right,

721
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: it's about opening up these conversations between students and their

722
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: families and adults and people who are educators, and trying

723
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: to make everybody more familiar with this special power that

724
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: influences every decision that we make in the adult world.

725
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: So we've got just a little bit more time with Dan,

726
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about how, you know, we can

727
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: actually take some of these things that we're discussing and

728
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: incorporate them at the home level too, especially if we

729
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: have kids. And we'll get to that right after the break.

730
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: All right, we're back from the break. Now we've got

731
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: Dan Lessal and Dan. We're talking about the program that

732
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: you have set up there at the school, uh to

733
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: teach kids about personal finance. How is it that you

734
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: are measuring the success of the program like you've got

735
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: like you've grown. I think when you started out you

736
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: had something like thirty one students and now you're up

737
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: to eighty something and so it's expanded. But how do

738
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: you how do you measure the actual results? So I

739
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: guess I should start by saying, is that the goal

740
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: is that all of these students are going to be

741
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: millionaires forty fifty sixty years from now, and I'm trying

742
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: to find some way of collecting data that lets me

743
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: feel optimistic that all of this work is like worth

744
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: it and that they're going to live a life of

745
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: financial sustainability. So luckily, students before particuing in the program

746
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: have to sign a legal waiver so I'm allowed to

747
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: ask these questions. They have to just sign, you know,

748
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: acknowledging you know that I'm not a certified finance a planner,

749
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: that I'm not doing anything other than for their educational purposes.

750
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: So I have them show me their bank account balances,

751
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, show me what is your checking, what is

752
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: your savings, and then we track it. We track their budgets,

753
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: we track how successful they aren't their budgets, so I

754
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: can say at the end of the at the end

755
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: of the year, we had half of the money I

756
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: had given students was still in their savings account, So

757
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: out of and revenue stream is in their savings account

758
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: one year later. So a fifty percent savings rate definitely

759
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: beats most adults that I talked to. And I also

760
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: think it really goes against a lot of stereotypes that

761
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: people have about low income families and low income families

762
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: of color, because you know, these are students who are

763
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: on when you need to look at the data on

764
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: balance are great savers. And I also track how much

765
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: they've like sort of mastered a lot of assessments about

766
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: investing and saving and credit cards. So I'm also looking

767
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: to make sure that they actually like understand these things,

768
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: because if they don't understand it now, they're certainly not

769
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: going to remember it ten years. Him now doesn't mean

770
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: that they definitely will, but I've got a problem if

771
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: they don't leave the class and there's certain key things

772
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: they haven't learned. You know. Dan a recent guest on

773
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: our show also named Dan Daniel Uh. He his his

774
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: dad was a financial planner and now he's a financial planner,

775
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: And they grew up talking about it around the dinner table,

776
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: and so there's just this level of familiarity and comfort

777
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: and ability to talk about it because it's something they

778
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: talked about as a family all the time consistently. So

779
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: one of the biggest hurdles having conversations and having this

780
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: class with with kids maybe who come from disadvantaged backgrounds,

781
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 1: who probably aren't having conversations around the dinner table about

782
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: roth iras and index funds. That's true. So I every

783
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: year I sort of kick off and I have like

784
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: a big dinner with all the families at the school.

785
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: So he sort of explained to the families, like what's

786
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: in store, what are our hopes, and you know, I

787
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: also opened up questions to parents, and many of them

788
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: are not familiar with what a four oh one K

789
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: plan is about ironment. So I'm not saying that this

790
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: is true of all families, but it's definitely true that

791
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: these are hidden pieces of information for no reason. So

792
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: unless you do have a family member who's a parent

793
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: and a financial planner and they're both talking at the

794
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: dinner table, these really clear and often, you know, very

795
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: time and time again, true rules of wealth generation are

796
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: hidden from most of us, which is just a shame.

797
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: Just we do not have enough people talking about it,

798
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: normalizing it, and teaching it in schools. Yeah, so, do

799
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: you see any of your students actually, I mean, like

800
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: you said, they're learning in the in the class. Do

801
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: you see these students going home and actually teaching some

802
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: of their parents. There's almost a role reversal, right, where

803
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: the kids are kind of coming to the table with

804
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: the knowledge. Do you see that happening at all? Do

805
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: you hear about that? I had one parent who it

806
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: was really funny, who's who came to me and said,

807
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: my my daughter now keeps bothering me about all my

808
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: credit card bills coming in the mail. And I'm like, well,

809
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say anything because I'm not here to

810
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: like tell you how to live your life. But I'm

811
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's actually great, So I'm glad your daughter

812
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: is saying that. But I also have this really geeky

813
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: textbook I wrote for the class that's sort of like,

814
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: is all of the financial literacy information trying written in

815
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: a really engaging way? And what's what's interesting is because

816
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot to the program that the jobs,

817
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: the bank accounts, the actual material, so I needed to

818
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: like a little book to title together. And what was

819
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: interesting is that the parents seem to like it a

820
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: lot more than the kids do, which I just think

821
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: is funny. So well, they might find certain chapters I

822
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: wrote kind of boring, the parents definitely want to talk

823
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: about it. So is that a resource available only to

824
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: the students kind of going through that class, or is

825
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: that something online? That you've made public or yeah, how

826
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: does that work? If I ever get a website for

827
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the program, I would definitely make it public because I

828
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: I have students all the time who are come to

829
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: come to me in my office because I'm an assistant

830
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: principle now, and they're like, Oh, tell me about this

831
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: money class you teach, And I just give them of

832
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: like copies of of my book that I've stapled on

833
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: the on the with the the school copier. So I'm

834
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: just you know, distributing it to anyone and everyone who

835
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: wants to talk about money, who wants to like not

836
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: be scared of the stock market, who I want to

837
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: be kind of fearful of credit cards, all that stuff,

838
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: I'm willing to send it to whoever. So on that note, Dan,

839
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: for other educators potentially listening, we actually had you know,

840
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: a high school teacher recently right in and ask the

841
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: question about teaching his students, you know, about money in

842
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: the classroom. How can other educators and parents who want

843
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: to either get involved in what you're doing or just

844
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: learn more about how to teach children about personal finance, Like,

845
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: how how would you suggest they get started? Yeah, so

846
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, anyone who wants to reach out so that

847
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: I can provide whatever resources and give them guidance. Can

848
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: email me at Philly Finance Cooperative at gmail dot com.

849
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: There's also a great website and nonprofit that has the

850
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: mission of having every high school in this country have

851
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: a personal finance class available to each student. So that's

852
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: next gen personal finance dot com. So that's a great

853
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: website that I would turn anyone who's first interested to

854
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: going to that. And then I think that the advice

855
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: I would give to anyone who wants to teach it

856
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: is is like, there are certain key principles behind wealth generation,

857
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: and it's you know, the rule of seventy two compound

858
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: int rist, know the difference between your needs and wants budget.

859
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: So I think that you can hit these big important

860
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: tenants and also talk about the psychology and the importance

861
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: of it without having to know a lot about finance,

862
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: because so much of being good with your money is

863
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: more of a self discipline and a topic of psychology

864
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: really than it is about money. So I think that

865
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: anyone who does want to begin that journey can really

866
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: start by getting students, and anyone who's interested really just

867
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: familiar with their own habits when it comes to spending

868
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: an exposure to money nice. So, Dan, outside of the

869
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: context of schools, you know, do you feel that parents

870
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: could teach something like this to their kids on a

871
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: smaller or on an individual level, and so how do

872
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: you think this would be different in the classroom versus

873
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: at home. I get the same question from parents, and

874
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: so what I tell them is have goals with your child,

875
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: and ones that you both can share together and track together.

876
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: Because anyone can make promises about what they will do

877
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: with their money, it's really about setting a goal and

878
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: then following up to see if they've met that goal. So,

879
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: for example, if it's save half of their paycheck, so

880
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: they cash out their paycheck and they literally put half

881
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: that money in an envelope and they're not going to

882
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: touch it until the end of the month. Set a

883
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: first step like that, and then check in with your

884
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: child at the end of the month. So make it

885
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: a team effort. Have it. Have a clear goal, whether

886
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: it's saving, whether it's budget, whether it's like, look, we're

887
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: not going to spend more than two dollars going out

888
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: to eat over the next three months, and track it.

889
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: So it's set a goal. Really the parent and the child,

890
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: make it a team effort, and then track that goal.

891
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: And then if that goal gets easy, and then it's

892
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: time to add another goal. Nice. I mean that's crazy simple, right,

893
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: Like what what stands out to me about that is

894
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: that it's not something that's complicated. You're not saying, you know,

895
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: take a certain percentage and put it here, take another percentage,

896
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: put it here. Make sure that you're only living on

897
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: this amount and with the other amount. Like, what you're

898
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: saying is just like, choose a singular, simple goal, follow

899
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: through with it, check up on it, make sure that

900
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: you're progressing, and then from there. Yeah, it sounds like

901
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: what you're saying is add on to that once you

902
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: make those baby steps, right, once you have some wins,

903
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: and then you can, you know, step up the complexity

904
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 1: if you need to. Yeah, they say that personal finance

905
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: the keys to becoming rich. It's it's simple but difficult.

906
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: So it's not complex. The rules are often simple. It's

907
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: it's still difficult though, because it requires that aspect of

908
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: self discipline and concentration to make sure that you follow

909
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: those often just simple rules. Yeah, there was a professor

910
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: a few years back who made news for writing all

911
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: everything you needed to know about personal finance on an

912
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: index card. And it's funny because you know, we do

913
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: two podcasts every week. We talk about money a lot.

914
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: But really, when when you boil it town that the

915
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: most important financial principles can fit on the size of

916
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: an index card. And if you can just actually read

917
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: those and then do what they say, you'll you'll be great,

918
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: You'll be gravy, you'll be fine. You'll be setting yourself

919
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: up for handling money well for the rest of your life.

920
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: The problem is, like you said, Dan, they're simple, but

921
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: le when it comes to the follow through and our

922
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: psychology and and making it happen. That's that's when when

923
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: the rubber hits the road is often when we fall

924
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: off the back of the card right now when we

925
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: choose not to do it. So, and just to provide

926
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: evidence to that testimony, my students read the book The

927
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: Index Card, and one of their essays they have to

928
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: write is, how are the rules that I recommend for

929
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: wealth generation similar, if not identical, to the rules of

930
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: the index card. So I like broad diverse mutual funds,

931
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: and you'll find that one of those rules of the

932
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: index card that you're talking about is low cost e

933
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: t f s. You know, they say save ten of

934
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: their paycheck. I say the same thing. They say, pay

935
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: the minimum balance on credit cards. I say, avoid credit

936
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: cards except get one, use it once a year, only

937
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: take out loans for college. But you'll find that you're right.

938
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: I think that part of the same reason that you

939
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: can fit all of the rules for becoming wealthy on

940
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: an index card is the same reason that I end

941
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: up teaching the same thing as the index card without

942
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: ever having actually read the index card before teaching the class.

943
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: I got one more question for you, Dan, do you

944
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: find that there are certain concepts that you see your

945
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: students grasping well and doing a very good job with that.

946
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: You see maybe your adult friends having a difficult time

947
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: with that, You see your adult friends struggling with and

948
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: you're like, man, how is it that these students can

949
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: get it and follow through and do what they're supposed

950
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: to do? But my my peers, they can't even do

951
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: that absolutely, and it's and I think it's really gonna

952
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, every single student I can tell you

953
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: certainly they leave knowing not to buy an individual stocks

954
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: And how many people do you know, really think that

955
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: like Tesla or a certain company is going to go huge.

956
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: They know that that is not the way because who

957
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: knows what could happen to an individual company. And they

958
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: know that debt is something to be taken on after

959
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: serious consideration and to really be very very skeptical of

960
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: credit cards. So we'll see what happens to my students

961
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: ten twenty thirty years later, but I believe that all

962
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: of them will have one, if not very minimal credit cards,

963
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,479
Speaker 1: will avoid debt, and that they will not be buying

964
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: an individual stocks and that is something that I can

965
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: say is very rare among the people my age that

966
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 1: I know. Well, uh, Dan, this has been a really

967
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: fun conversation. It's been really enlightening and just I'm so

968
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: happy for the kids that go through this education in

969
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: your classroom. I mean, I think it's just the coolest thing.

970
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us and for

971
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: all your hard work creating and implementing this financial literacy

972
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: approach in your high school. We really appreciate you coming

973
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, this was really fun. Thanks, uh really,

974
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: thank you for taking an interest in the program, and

975
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: you know, thanks for having me on and thanks for

976
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: caring about the stuff just as much as me, so

977
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, we're all fighting the same fight. Joel Man,

978
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: what an amazing conversation we just had with Dan. You know,

979
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: one of the things that stood out the most to

980
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: me was how he is using real money, like real

981
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: cash money that these kids are earning. And it's not

982
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: some simulation where it's just like a game that they're playing, right,

983
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: it's and that's not the game of life. They're not

984
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: playing Monopoly, they're not seeing fake dollars in like the

985
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: stock market game. But they're using real money and they're

986
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: opening real bank accounts. And it's no wonder that he

987
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: is having such an impact on these kids because they're

988
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: learning the real lessons as well. And we call them kids,

989
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 1: but really they're they're adults. And and Dan is treating

990
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: these kids like adults. And that's what's so cool because

991
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: we've kind of made it so that kids don't have

992
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: to grow up until later in life. And Dan is saying,

993
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, these are things you need to know like now,

994
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: next year, three years from now, you you need to

995
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: know these concepts. And I love that he's kind of

996
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: ingraining them from a young age because that's kind of

997
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 1: what I wish would have happened for me in high school.

998
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: I don't know how hard it is to learn them later,

999
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: especially after maybe a series of bad beats are taking

1000
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: out you know, debt you shouldn't have racking up some

1001
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: credit card debt, and so to learn on the front

1002
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: end as opposed to the back end of bad decisions,

1003
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a win win for for everyone involved.

1004
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: And I think what Dan's doing is innovative, it's interesting,

1005
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: and it's making a real difference in kids lives and

1006
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: their families lives. Yeah, and again, one of the things

1007
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: that stood up to me was how he's allowing his

1008
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: students to fail within the program and through those small

1009
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: failures like you said, like he mentioned, like, yeah, they

1010
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: might blow a lot of money on prom but the

1011
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: equivalent to that in real life is maybe taking out

1012
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: a car loan that you shouldn't have taken out, or

1013
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: and you know, losing thousands and thousands of dollars maybe

1014
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: in the stock market because you put it on a

1015
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: single stock A number of different sort of mistakes that

1016
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: would be very easy to make, and that I think

1017
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: a lot of young adults make once they are out

1018
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: on their own. I think it's amazing that Dan is

1019
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: doing all this and and it's really exciting to think

1020
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: too how this can expand and grow. Hopefully he will

1021
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: hear from folks because of this episode that will reach

1022
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: out to him and see if there's a way that

1023
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: they can get a program set up like this in

1024
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: their own school. Yeah. In particular, the teacher who reached

1025
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: out to us on a recent Listener Question episode asking

1026
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: about how he can teach his students. And you know what,

1027
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: I think he and Dan hooking up would be the

1028
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: perfect thing. So all right, let's get back to the

1029
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: beer real quick. And by beer, I mean cider. First

1030
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: time we're drinking it's called a beer because that's what

1031
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: we do. Okay, alright, so but it's the first time

1032
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 1: we're having a cider on the show. Our friend Andrew

1033
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: brought this one back from a recent trip. It was

1034
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: really kind of him. This is actually, honestly, I'm not

1035
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: really a cider guy. This is really really good. This

1036
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: is called Happy Trees by Ancho, and this was delicious.

1037
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: It's a spontaneously fermented dry cider. I could drink this often. Man.

1038
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: It was a really really tasty treat. Yeah, you know,

1039
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: it's a dry cider, so it drinks really cleanly. But

1040
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: because it's got that spontaneous fermentation going on, I think

1041
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: that's what gives it that sort of funk on the

1042
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: front end that I noticed as soon as you drink it. Uh,

1043
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: there's sort of like this wild funkiness to it. And yeah,

1044
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: I think that is that wild fermentation. But then it's

1045
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: super refined and really clean and it's very delicious. So Andrew,

1046
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much for donating this cider to the show.

1047
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: I wentn't sure if we're actually gonna have this one on,

1048
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: but I'm glad we did. Jill, Yeah, me too, Me too.

1049
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 1: For anyone wanting to reach out to Dan or find

1050
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 1: some of the links that we mentioned on the show today,

1051
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: you can check out the show notes for this episode

1052
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: at our website how to money dot com. And if

1053
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, we would be thrilled if you

1054
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: left us or review over in Apple Podcasts. But if

1055
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: you feel that we have some room for improvement, we

1056
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: would also love to hear from you. Just hit us

1057
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: up at how some Money dot Com forward Slash do Better.

1058
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: We're always looking for some constructive criticism. Yeah we're not perfect, right,

1059
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: it's true. Yeah, but uh working on it now, we'll

1060
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: never be there, all right, all right, Matt. Good times

1061
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: until next time. Best friends out, Best friends out,