1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Welcome 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: back to I Choose Me, where we talk about choices 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: big and small that help us improve our lives. I 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: wanted to spend days with Joan London, trailblazing journalist and author, 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: soaking in her incredible stories and lessons. Here's some more 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: of our conversation. 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I love the title of this. I love I 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: Choose Me. Obviously, I choose. 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, over and over on. 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: The entire journey, again and again and again. So of 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: course when I heard the title of your podcast, I 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: was like, I love that. Yes, you're like women, child 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 2: do it? 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: No, and we're not taught to choose ourselves. 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: Men are taught at a very young age choose you 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: go out on that football field, you show them whose 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: boss you do this like? And you know it's getting better. 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: But I just think almost inherently, women don't think that way. 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: Maybe it's because certainly as life goes on, you have 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: you have children and like A, I don't. I don't 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: mean it's done a great men, but I mean men 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: get up in the morning and they think what am 23 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 2: I gonna wear to the I have a big meeting today? 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: What am I gonna have for breakfast? And then I 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: got to get in the car and leave now because 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: I don't want to be late for that meeting. Women 27 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: get up and say, did I buy the ice skates? 28 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: Do I have the hot right hockey stick? Oh my god, 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: I've got this? Have a parent teacher meeting. You we 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: juggle so much, shoes, your children over yourself. And it's 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: a completely different mindset. And that's not to say that 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: a lot of men are doing a lot more these days. 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: And I have a great husband who's been, you know, 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: very hands on, not like a mother. He's not trying 35 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: to remember if you bought the hockey stick or not, 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: but he's been very hands on. But it's it's a 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: real Oh, it's just such a I always felt like 38 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: you're walking like this tightrope. And as you're walking this 39 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: type rope as the working woman, every time you kind 40 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: of fall over to one side and think, oh man, 41 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: I should have been at the office. And then I'll 42 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: run this say oh god, I should have been with 43 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: the kids. Yeah, And it's just this emotional things. It's 44 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: like torture. We torture ourselves. Yeah, we torture ourselves. 45 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: I know, and I love spreading the message of how 46 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: important it is to choose yourself, even to you know, 47 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: especially to younger girls. My daughters are you know, young 48 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: women who they live their life by this now, and 49 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: they they comprehend it on a level that I never did, 50 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you never did either, we as women, 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: and I just get a little bit upset that we were, 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: that we've had to work this hard for so long 53 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: to come to this magical place where we allow ourselves 54 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: to choose themselves, to love ourselves. 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: Only Mike in our fifties or sixties, right, But I 56 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: mean I saw a picture of your daughters. You have 57 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: such beautiful daughters. 58 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, gosh, thank you. 59 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: So how many daughters do you have? I only have three? 60 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: You have three? 61 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: Four or five daughters? 62 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: Five daughters? Yes, and they're just awesome. And you know, 63 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: the older ones, of course, lived through all those years 64 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: with me on GMA. They came into the studio, although interestingly, 65 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 2: as each one has finished the book, reading the final manuscript, 66 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: they said, wow, I didn't know this or I didn't 67 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: know that, and like I was there with you, but 68 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: I didn't know this. And then there's my younger girls, 69 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: because Jamie's forty five, Sarah's, Lindsay's forty two, and Sarah's 70 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: thirty eight. How do you remember all the ages? And 71 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: then the twins Kate and Max are twenty three, and 72 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: Kim and Jack are turning twenty one. They're twenty months apart, 73 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: are turning twenty one. So those two young girls, they 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: are going to be reading a book about a person 75 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: that they don't know that much about. In a way, 76 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: it's it's really weird to me. They're going to read 77 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: it completely different than my older girls. And I'm so 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: cognizant of that that they don't. They were never around 79 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: with me when I was riding around the limousines and 80 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: you know, on red carpets every year other day. They 81 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: didn't live that life and the older girls did. But 82 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: to my younger girls, I'm just kind of a normal mom. 83 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: So it's going to be really interesting to hear their take. 84 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, what advice would you give to us to help 85 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: us all believe in ourselves the way you have? 86 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: Oh? I think that, you know, I just saw this. 87 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: It's ironic. I just saw this, not a meme, but 88 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: this little video yesterday on my feed, one of my 89 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: social media feeds that showed if you have an ant 90 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: on a piece of paper and you draw a circle 91 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: around it, the ant won't go out of the circle 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: the drawing the drawn circle around it. Like I'm dying 93 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: to like try this, Oh, I want to try this. 94 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: Give me the same with the same with like a spider, 95 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: Like if you draw this line, but once if you 96 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 2: keep drawing the lines, this guy showed if you draw 97 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: the lines smaller and smaller so that pretty soon any 98 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: movement lets them go across the line, then then they'll 99 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: never be they'll never have a line hold them in again. 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: So now just think about this in terms of us. 101 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: We inherently draw lines around ourselves, like we all do. 102 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: Like I'm sure you've had a fitness trainer that says, 103 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: do as many sit ups as you can, and you 104 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: do twenty, and they say, why did you stop at twenty? 105 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: I don't know, because I thought that's how many I 106 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: could do. I mean, we all make boundaries, and so 107 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: I think what I was learning, just like that ant, 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: or just like that spider that crossed over the line 109 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: and then no line could hold them back, is I 110 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: learned pretty early on that I crossed those lines and 111 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: like Okay, I can do whatever whatever I want, and 112 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: if you can kind of have that concept as a 113 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: young person, or is anybody any age that feels like 114 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: they just are limiting themselves? And I say that because 115 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: that's actually exactly what they're doing. They're limiting themselves by 116 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: their own boundaries, and we almost can't help it. But 117 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: to make those it's like kids. You say, oh, the 118 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: kid needs boundaries, and it feels safe to have. It 119 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: feels that circle. But you know, I always use the 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: example of the show I did Behind Closed Doors where 121 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: I jumped with the Golden Knights and on an aircraft 122 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 2: carrier and an F eighteen and all these things, and 123 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: people are like, oh my god, you just like you have, 124 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: you know, balls, You're not afraid? Do you think that? 125 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: Every time I drove out of my driveway with yet 126 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: another uniform packed in my suitcase to go off and 127 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: go through training so I could do what my husband 128 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: refers to as my stupid human tricks, No, I felt 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: cautious and am I really going to be able to 130 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: pull this off? Like I probably thought that before almost 131 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: every one of those stories, But then I just said, 132 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: but I'm going to do it anyway. That's pretty much it, 133 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: and that's you know, I just think that people hear 134 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: opportunities all the time, Like somebody will be You'll be 135 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: with a group and somebody will be talking about something, 136 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: and people tend to think, oh, that's so great, Wow, 137 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: that's gonna be a great opportunity for someone. Why not you? 138 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: Why not yea? Why not you? And I've always kind 139 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: of lived my life that way. So I've snatched onto 140 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: every one of them. And consequently, I have a memoir 141 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: that was really hard to do because I had to 142 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: figure out what things am I going to actually use 143 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: because at first I wrote like one hundred and eighty 144 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: thousand page memoile, Well, you can't go over one hundred 145 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: thousand words. Nobody wants to read over one hundred thousand words. 146 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: So I'm like, what am I going to let go of? 147 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: And what am I going to leave in? And then 148 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 2: I also decided I'm a voracious reader. I love reading books. 149 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: I love books, And what do I love about them? Well? 150 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: I love reading novels and they take you into their world. 151 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: They with adjectives. They they define what the what the 152 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: area is like, and what the person is like, and 153 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: what's happening. Don't you want to write a book like 154 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: the books you like? And that's when I decided that 155 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: it shouldn't be an autobiography, which was the first draft 156 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: I wrote, and I decided it needs to be a memoir. 157 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: You can't just say and so then you know, the 158 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: first time they offered me that job, I had to 159 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 2: turn it down. Uh uh. I was writing up in 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: the elevator that day. I knew I had to meet 161 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: with the executives and tell them I wasn't gonna How 162 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: am I going to tell them? 163 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: Oh? 164 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: There they are? Is I get off the elevator, They're 165 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: already at the table. So now as the waiter is 166 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: unfolding my napkin, like, get your get the words in 167 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: your head, Joan, how are you gonna do this? That's 168 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: what they want to hear. They want like a like 169 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: all the novels that we all read and that we love. 170 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: They want to be inside your head. Yeah you did that. 171 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: I did you did because I can feel myself and 172 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody that reads this book can feel themselves 173 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: in those scenarios that you found yourself. 174 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: In that moment that oh my god, yes, that terrifying moment. 175 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you really broke some major ground in your career, 176 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: I mean left and right, but also as far as 177 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: what women were allowed to do in the East in 178 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: the workplace. You brought your newborn daughter to work at 179 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: Good Morning America in the early eighties. 180 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: Which was the most cacamaming thing that I could. 181 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know what that's like. You get you 182 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: wake that baby up at three am to get to 183 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: the set. Yep, it's just a different, you know, a different. 184 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: I would do everything ahead of time, Jenny, and I'd 185 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: have my bag that was my work bag, and then 186 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: I would have the diaper bag. I'd have it already 187 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: and i'd have like a little you know, I forget 188 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: what those things bunting on top of the changing table. 189 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: And at three point thirty, I would get up and 190 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: I'd get myself ready, and then I'd go and i'd 191 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: scoop her out of the crib. She was seven weeks old, 192 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: and I started as gently as I could and put 193 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: her on the bunting and ant I always put her 194 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: in one of those nightgowns that like open at the 195 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: bottom so I could try to make her stay atsleep 196 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 2: while I oh put on a fresh diaper. And get 197 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: her into the bunting, get in the back of the car, 198 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 2: and this was before the car set days. I'd have 199 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: her in my arms in the back of the limo, 200 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: breastfeeding on one side, breastfeeding on the other side, reading 201 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: the first eighty pages of the script, and then the 202 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: second eighty pages, and then she'd be conped out and 203 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: I'd go and put her in her little crib, which 204 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: they gave me a little They gave me the dressing 205 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: room next to mine. We'd put a crib in there 206 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: and a rocking chair, and she would go to sleep. 207 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: I remember Barbara Walters came in one morning and she 208 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: came into the makeup room and said high and then 209 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: she turned around to go down the hall to get 210 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: coffee to the coffee room, and she walked by the 211 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: open door and she stopped and she turned around. She said, 212 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: I don't even believe what I'm seeing, Like I really 213 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: can't get over this, that your baby is sleeping there 214 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: while you do hair and makeup, and you're going to 215 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: go down and do two hours of live television. Like 216 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: I can't imagine what they would have said if I'd 217 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 2: asked to bring my young daughter to work with me, 218 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: and it was unprecedented. Isn't really a word? Is sufficient? Right? 219 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: I got to hand a DABC. They let me, They 220 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: said yes. But frankly, there had not been a lot 221 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: of camaraderie on the show. How do I delicately say 222 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: this between the co hosts that came before me and 223 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: David Hartman? 224 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: Right? 225 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: And so she'd been she had left, and they wanted 226 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: to get my tush in that seat and put the 227 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: team back together as the fall lineup. And that was 228 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: August twenty seventh, and they said September they announced all 229 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: the shows in the fall lineup. I think they just 230 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: felt like, just say yes to her, like, you know, 231 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: whatever it takes, well, keep it to be the best 232 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: kept secret. I don't think they had any clue at 233 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: all how the audience was going to react and how 234 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: it would have a ripple effect across industries, across other corporations. 235 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: I don't think that they had any idea that it all. 236 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: Did you? 237 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: Did you realize at the time how radical that moment 238 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: was or were you just doing what you had to 239 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: do as a mother, what you felt I. 240 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: Was taking a young woman who got a great job 241 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 2: and got pregnant at the same time, and I was 242 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 2: putting one foot in front of the other, and I mean, 243 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: I asked my Remember this was nineteen seventy nine, you 244 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: couldn't say the word breastfeeding on television. Unbelievable. That was 245 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: one of the words that you could not say on television. 246 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: And so I asked my agent, will you go ahead 247 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: and ask them that if I can take my baby 248 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: to work because I'm breastfeeding. He was like silent for 249 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 2: thirty seconds. I said, I'm really serious, like, just go 250 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: ask them. And I would love to have been a 251 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: flying on that wall, right and uh, you know, everybody thought, well, 252 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: we'll just you know, we'll just keep it mum. But 253 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: that didn't happen. You know, I talk about in the 254 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: book how they staged this beautiful, big press conference after 255 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: my first day and invited all the press and we 256 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: had this amazing turnout, like more than they expected, and 257 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: little did we know why. And you know, David Hartman 258 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: welcomed everybody there and introduced me, and I opened it 259 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: up to questions. First question Time magazine we heard you're 260 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: bringing your baby to work. How did you work that 261 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: out with ABC? And like you, I remember, my eyes 262 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: darted to the back of the room where all the 263 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: executives were and all the pr people who had pulled 264 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: me aside like moments before, I walked out and said, 265 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: what have you do? Do not say you have baby upstairs. 266 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: These are critics. They will chew you up and they 267 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: will spit you out and everything you can do your job. 268 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I didn't really plan on bringing 269 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: it up. And second question, Newsweek, the show travels, how 270 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: are you going to deal with that? And I said, well, actually, 271 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: ABC contractually has given me the right to take the 272 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: baby with me as long as i'm bricet feeding. You 273 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: print that. 274 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that was out. 275 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: Of the bag. But that became the story of the morning, 276 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: and you know, that's why they had all heard it 277 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: and they were all there. It wasn't because ABC was 278 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: announcing the new star on GMA. It was because a 279 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: major media corporation had given a woman the right to 280 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: bring her newborn baby to work. That was the breaking 281 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: news story of the day. 282 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: Well as it should have been. It changed the times, 283 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: It changed the trajectory of everyone's you know, experience being 284 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: a mom and having to work. 285 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: So that's what I was not a flag waving feminist. 286 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: Remember I my mom didn't want me on a college 287 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: campus in America because I was so young, so she 288 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: sent me on world campus Afloat. Now it's called Semester 289 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: at See. Best thing ever because we went around the world, 290 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: visiting fifteen countries. That probably went a long way to 291 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: me getting my first job in broadcasting. And then one 292 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: of the shipmates said, what are you going to do 293 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: when you get back, and I said, well, I've applied 294 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: to you know, I was accepted at UCLA and U 295 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: SEE Berkeley, and now I'm going dating a guy that 296 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: goes to University of Texas, so I'm also applying there. 297 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: She said, well, I'm going to go to Mexico City 298 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: because there's this university down there and I'd love to 299 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 2: have I want someone to go with me, we go 300 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: with me. I was like, okay, and so I went, 301 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,359 Speaker 2: but I got My mom actually flew down from Sacramento, California, 302 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: to La so we could meet her in LA and 303 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: fly on to Mexico City. And when I called her 304 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: to tell her I'm here, I'm ready for the flight tomorrow, 305 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: she said, oh, I'm really sorry. I've decided not to go. Ah, 306 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: and my mom is like, so what are you going 307 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: to do. I said, I'm going to Mexico tomorrow morning 308 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 2: by myself. That's my gosh. So I didn't know. It's 309 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: so wonderful. I went for three months and I stayed 310 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: three years. And again that all played into why this 311 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: news director. Why I walked in off the street at 312 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: a time when no women were coming in and applying 313 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: for a job at a TV station and sat down 314 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: and said, you know, one of your salespeople here told 315 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: me that you're going to be hiring more women because 316 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 2: the women's movement is going to force you to do that. 317 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: So tell me about this job. Tell me you know 318 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 2: what's the future for women, you know, how's things going 319 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: to change. And he looked at me and he said 320 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: that salesperson told me I'd be impressed with you, but 321 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: he did know how to write an interview, because you're 322 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 2: interviewing me. Yeah. He took me into the studio and 323 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: sat me at that news set. I mean, it was 324 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: just something I used to see every night on that 325 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: on my television at home, and I read copy and 326 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: he said, you've got something like I think that you've 327 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: really got what it takes me in this business. But 328 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: I don't have a job, but I'll keep you in mind. 329 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: But fortunately the weatherman was back behind the set and 330 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: he saw the audition and he followed me out into 331 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: the parking lot and he said, there are a few 332 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 2: stations around the country that are hiring weather girls, and 333 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 2: I'd like to make you Sacramento's first weather girl. 334 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: And you were getting paid what, thirty dollars a week? 335 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: You said, thirty dollars a week. No, it was like 336 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 2: a supposedly like a paid internship. I mean it was. 337 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: It was nothing. And thank god my mom taught me 338 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: to recognize an opportunity. When I heard it, I said, okay, 339 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, be at the station at five o'clock 340 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 2: on Monday. I was like, five am. Yes, I start 341 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: drive time radio at five am. I want you there. 342 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: That was kind of like the beginning of my early 343 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 2: morning life. 344 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: For the rest of your life, for the rest of 345 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: my life. I want to talk about one little thing 346 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: before we before we go. In your book, you reflect 347 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: on a time in your forties where you were faced 348 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: where you face the crossroads of midlife, and you didn't 349 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: recognize yourself or your body. And I can definitely relate 350 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: to that. We both grew up in front of the cameras. 351 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: I recently saw TikTok actually from a woman named Susie 352 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: Trigg Tucker, who resonated with me so much. She said 353 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: that sometime in her mid forties, she started looking in 354 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: the mirror and feeling ugly, like the beauty that she 355 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: had always seen and been rewarded for was melting away 356 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: in fine lines and gray hair. In your experience, what 357 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: did it feel like to look in the mirror at 358 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: that time of your life, in your forties. 359 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: It happened to me at the age of thirty nine, actually, 360 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: and I picked up a magazine at the time, Charlie's 361 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: Angels was on television, and it was like the three 362 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: Charlie's Angels and is said fit forty and fabulous, And 363 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be fit forty and fabulous, 364 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 2: but I'm not. And I literally made a decision that 365 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 2: I had to do something about it. I was turning forty, 366 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: I had had three children, continued on the fast pace. 367 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: I was probably forty five fifty pounds more than I 368 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 2: should be, and thank God for you know, big shoulder 369 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: pads and big hair back in those days. But I 370 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: knew I had to do something about it. And I 371 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 2: also knew that twenty years from then, I still wanted 372 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 2: to be able to run in a race and not 373 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 2: just like watch from the sidelines. I knew that I 374 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: had to change my life because I looked in the 375 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 2: mirror and I was like, you're not that attractive anymore. 376 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: Like you know, you can't you can't wear the clothes 377 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 2: that would look really good on you because you've got 378 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,239 Speaker 2: so much extra weight on you. You're lethargic, you're tired all 379 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 2: the time. I wonder why you got to do But 380 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: I mean, but I took that on, Jenny. It's like 381 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: a second job, because when you take it on as 382 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: a second job, that means that the appointment with the 383 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: trainer or the appointment with the nutritionists is just as 384 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: important as the interview with the president or the interview 385 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: with the major star. I tried to make them be 386 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: equal that they couldn't be. I couldn't not show up. 387 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: I couldn't they they had. I had to make them 388 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: omni important like they that I had to do them 389 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: and I worked really, really really hard for a year. 390 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't happen anything overnight, but but when 391 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: I turned forty, I had dropped forty five pounds. And 392 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: it's not just a matter of dropping the weight. Come 393 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: this effusive, energetic person that had started playing tennis again 394 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: and started, you know, doing things with girlfriends and that 395 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: I hadn't been doing because all of a sudden, I 396 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: mean it literally like transform me quite frankly into a 397 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 2: different person, to the point that I think it completely 398 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: changed my life trajectory for the next ten years, because 399 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 2: when I was forty five, like five. So now I'm 400 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 2: like forty five, I've had like five Oh. I also 401 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 2: knew I had to leave a bad marriage, right Admittedly 402 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 2: this all was also part of that, knowing that I 403 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: was going to come out on the other end and 404 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 2: have to be attractive, its vibrant, and have to be 405 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: able to start a new life. And by the time 406 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 2: I was forty five, I met my who was thirty five. 407 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: I don't know if that would have happened that way 408 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: if I hadn't changed the course of my life. In fact, 409 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: you probably can pretty data proof say that wouldn't have happened. 410 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: But it sounds like it was. It was all because 411 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: you started choosing yourself. 412 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and that was probably the first time in 413 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: a long time, because you know, when I was growing up, 414 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: we weren't told to choose ourselfs. Then you have children 415 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: and you really don't choose yourself and then so that 416 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: really it was at that fortieth birthday they're like, wow, 417 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: look what you can do. Look what happened to you 418 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: when you choose yourself. It literally transformed my life. And 419 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: women out there you can do this at any point 420 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: in time, any point in time, and it's never, never, 421 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 2: never too late to do it. And you're so it's 422 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: just not a matter of like, oh god, now I 423 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: fit into a size eight instead of fourteen. It's that 424 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 2: you are energyche and you have an exuberance for the 425 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 2: day and. 426 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: You get that zest for life, but zest. 427 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: For life and that and if you're out there and 428 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 2: you're divorced and you haven't been married, am I ever 429 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 2: going to meet someone again? Or have you never married? 430 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 2: And am I ever going to meet someone? Do this 431 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: for yourself because that inner effusiveness, that zest in your 432 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: eyes and you're a smile, that's what attracts a man. 433 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: You got it, the right kind of guy, the right one. 434 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: Oh incredible, Thank you, Joan Joan Life Beyond the Script 435 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: is available now wherever books are sold, and of course 436 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: you can hear her read the audio book as well, 437 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: which I love so much, and I'm very excited to 438 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: share that my book I Choose Me Chasing Joy, Finding 439 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: Purpose and Embracing reinvention is coming April fourteenth, and it 440 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: would mean the world if you would pre order a 441 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: copy or the audiobook wherever you get your books. And yes, 442 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: I am definitely narrating the audiobook, so it's going to 443 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: be so fun.