WEBVTT - Ep. 175: If Cabbages Had Legs I’d Hunt Them Too

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<v Speaker 1>This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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<v Speaker 1>bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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<v Speaker 1>can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are

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<v Speaker 1>the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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<v Speaker 1>Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor

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<v Speaker 1>where you stand with on X Doug, you'll be able

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<v Speaker 1>to relate to this story. Guy wrote in and he

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<v Speaker 1>got his uh, got his nipple pierced, And sure how

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be able to relate to this story. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a joke I stole from Brian Cowen where if

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<v Speaker 1>you're telling someone a story that has you tell us

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<v Speaker 1>some story that has really in a crowd. You'll tell

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<v Speaker 1>like some like perverse story and you'll say like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Billy, this will you'll appreciate this, Bill, And

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<v Speaker 1>you tell like some stories and people are like later

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, why would you know? So that's why I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to correct it right away. So a guy guess

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<v Speaker 1>his nipple piers and he writes in about it and

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<v Speaker 1>he's out shooting his bow. You can imagine when this

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<v Speaker 1>is going right, Oh god, yeah, very painful. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>sure that's something i'd be writing you about well, we've

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<v Speaker 1>been talking about stuff people getting It started off with

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<v Speaker 1>hunting scars, and Gala rode in to say she had

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<v Speaker 1>jumped jumped to barb wire fence ripped her nipple, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the ripple nipping nipple ripping stories have come in

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<v Speaker 1>and rolled in. She was jumping a fence to go

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<v Speaker 1>dove hunting, and yeah, we told the whole story anyways,

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<v Speaker 1>and then she had made a joke about how her

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<v Speaker 1>husband and later she said, my husband called that one scarface.

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<v Speaker 1>And then other people wrote in, Um, just nipple ripping

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<v Speaker 1>stories catches free people that are slower the take. He

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<v Speaker 1>gets his nipple pierced. That's one. Like, that's one. I

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<v Speaker 1>just I mean, God bless right, but I just don't

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<v Speaker 1>just that not on my list before I went tongue piercing,

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah for sure. But if you wrote down all

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<v Speaker 1>the things you could get pierced in a list, and

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<v Speaker 1>I had to start like from the top, and I

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<v Speaker 1>know when it would end, I would that won't be

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<v Speaker 1>real low, real low on my list. Um, but he

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<v Speaker 1>catches it on his bow string, right, I would. I

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<v Speaker 1>would if that happened to me, I would say that

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<v Speaker 1>it happened, you keep it secret, No, I would say

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<v Speaker 1>it publicly. Yeah, Like, I don't know how to say this,

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<v Speaker 1>but in the last few years, but I I've increased.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never been I've never I've never I've never been

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<v Speaker 1>like reluctant to publicized when I do something stupid. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's gotten the point where I really wanted out there.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like a kind of a form of masochism. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you dumb motherfucker. People are gonna know about this too,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's maybe it's like some kind of form

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<v Speaker 1>of like self betterment, Like, well, I think it's I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's helpful too, because the worst thing you can

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<v Speaker 1>be as a blowhard. Yeah, so if you are generally

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<v Speaker 1>competent person and you it's like under promising over delivering.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you're very vocal about what you've screwed up,

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<v Speaker 1>but you are generally competent, it's only gonna do good

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<v Speaker 1>for you. And I have found that when I have

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<v Speaker 1>like contractor a contractor over that staid as the plumbing

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<v Speaker 1>problem is beyond me to figure out if I have

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<v Speaker 1>a contractor over and I say, you know, I'm such

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<v Speaker 1>a dumbass when it comes to this right, It just

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<v Speaker 1>makes the whole thing go better. Then if you're in

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<v Speaker 1>there acting like you but got it solved, do you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean? You're also putting yourself in a

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<v Speaker 1>position to learn a little bit more, probably too speak

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<v Speaker 1>of things. Then it's good stories you could tell to

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<v Speaker 1>the world and kind of get it, you know. Up

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<v Speaker 1>a I saw a picture, but I didn't really get

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<v Speaker 1>a story. Yeah, No, that's kind of where I was

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<v Speaker 1>going with this. Yeah, so this is yeah, this is

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<v Speaker 1>me putting on sackcloth and ashes right here. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>a biblical reference? Mm hmm. What part of the Bible?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, isn't the sa and ashes? And then

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<v Speaker 1>also I think it's all I think it's in several

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<v Speaker 1>places in the Old Testament. And I think that when

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<v Speaker 1>one is wearing sat cloth and ashes there there it

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<v Speaker 1>was a stupid way. It wasn't the right usage because

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<v Speaker 1>it's usually you're repenting for something, but not repenting hat.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wearing a hair shirt in the Bible, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know when Usually when somebody's wearing set cloth and putting

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<v Speaker 1>ashes on their face, they're they're also gnashing their teeth.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems to be my boy, does that my four

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<v Speaker 1>year old. I have a lament that does it. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that nipple piercing just got replaced by you know

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<v Speaker 1>where this is going is you're gonna tell them? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>But first I got asked, you have a Llama shirt

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<v Speaker 1>on right now. Somebody gave me this. It's a little

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<v Speaker 1>tight on me. So it says Wikipedia fact number thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred one. Llamas like to wrestle. Yeah, yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>like that shirt. I don't know. Okay, go on, So

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<v Speaker 1>what happens? Um? They do like to wrestle though, they do?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I thought I was just being stupid

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<v Speaker 1>and cut. They like to wrestle. Yeah, sometimes I go

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<v Speaker 1>out in my pasture and break it up because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>afraid one of them is gonna get hurt. Really, what

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<v Speaker 1>is that, Doug? What was your thing about farm wrestling? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>Duc threatened the farm wrestle. It was a typo. It

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<v Speaker 1>was no, no, it was him. He was He was interested,

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<v Speaker 1>like I don't know what that is, but I want

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. He wanted something from me, and I said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll arm wrestle you for it. But I think I

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<v Speaker 1>spoke into my phone and I said farm wrestling because

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<v Speaker 1>farm wrestle anyway. So there are playing with your bow

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<v Speaker 1>and arrows. Yeah, I Um, I was shooting out of

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<v Speaker 1>my house this winter because it was bit or cold,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and I but I wanted to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>keep up on the shooting a little bit. So I

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<v Speaker 1>open was opening up the window and shooting out the window.

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<v Speaker 1>And I went out to fetch my arrows. And I

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<v Speaker 1>had an idea why I was out there. It's like, man,

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot see my pins very good inside the house.

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<v Speaker 1>So I went out into the garage and I got

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<v Speaker 1>a got my head lamp and it was zip tieing

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<v Speaker 1>to my site pin and then I got back in it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, things a little bright, you know, So I

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<v Speaker 1>was you know, I was like there was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>going on, and I freaking forgot that I had closed

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<v Speaker 1>the window. Did you hit the target? I never found

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<v Speaker 1>that arrow. It took me a few seconds to even

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<v Speaker 1>realize what happened. I was like, what that window? Um? Here,

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<v Speaker 1>uh another quick thing. I was just reading. I'm reading

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<v Speaker 1>a book. Oh you know, Randall, you'll appreciate this watch out.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll appreciate it for real. Remember I was recently asking

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<v Speaker 1>you about the historian Elliott West because I'm enjoying his

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<v Speaker 1>books so much, his collection of his essays, one of

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<v Speaker 1>which is an essay that really counters the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>Lewis and Clark had discovered, you know, from a European perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>had discovered the like the great planes, right, And he

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<v Speaker 1>goes on to explain, at the time Lewis and Clark's

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<v Speaker 1>um journey, there were Indians on the Great Plains who

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<v Speaker 1>had been to Europe, met the King of France, and

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<v Speaker 1>returned home at the time of the Lewis and Clark expedition.

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<v Speaker 1>So you forward me that story a long time ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, Well, I wasn't got the book that that

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<v Speaker 1>piece of podcast listener that sent that that essay in,

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<v Speaker 1>and I went and got the whole book, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I was trying to and I wanted to get the

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<v Speaker 1>dope on Elliott West. So I asked Randall what Elliott

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<v Speaker 1>West's reputation was, and he told me about Elliott west reputation.

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<v Speaker 1>Then I get the book and I'm reading and there's

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<v Speaker 1>a piece about the difficult job of a historian to

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<v Speaker 1>uncover the unheard voices in history, meaning that we follow

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<v Speaker 1>like oh, Lewis and Clark, right, And we know all

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<v Speaker 1>these monumentas things, but like the the details of people's

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<v Speaker 1>lives and people that weren't spoken for, right, people whose

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<v Speaker 1>recollections aren't like like he talks about the paucity of

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<v Speaker 1>of accounts from Chinese immigrants who worked in the mines.

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<v Speaker 1>Right there, they didn't leave a written history, so now

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<v Speaker 1>you're trying to like find these forgotten voices. And in

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<v Speaker 1>there he's some about this guy and his brother that

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<v Speaker 1>are going out to the California gold Rush. And they're

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<v Speaker 1>leaving the East coast, going to California gold Rush by boat,

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<v Speaker 1>so presumably going all the way around Patagonia at the time, right,

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<v Speaker 1>no Panama Canal. His brother dies on the way, so

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<v Speaker 1>there's two brothers. They leave and his brother dies on

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<v Speaker 1>the way, and he gets a barrel of brandy and

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<v Speaker 1>packs his brother into a barrel of brandy. The dead

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<v Speaker 1>Brady packs into a barrel of brandy, gets to California

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<v Speaker 1>and to bury his brother at home, promptly sets out

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<v Speaker 1>on an overland journey with the bear, the brother packing

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<v Speaker 1>the barrel of brandy to bring him back home. Him again,

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<v Speaker 1>he's so intent on bringing his brother home. Why why

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<v Speaker 1>was it easier to do that, and then if he

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<v Speaker 1>opted to do the ocean one, do you have a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of stuff with him? He doesn't explain that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't dug into the footnotes to find where he

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<v Speaker 1>pulled that story from. But I don't understand why. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, let's go one way. Maybe they were moving

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of Maybe they're moving stuff, and he left

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff and it was quicker to packed him and

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<v Speaker 1>Brandy just wanted to change the scenery. Yep. Um. A

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<v Speaker 1>couple of other things I wanted to touch on real quick.

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<v Speaker 1>A guy wrote in he's fishing and his brother hooks

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<v Speaker 1>into their fishing on the East coast. Where were they fishing?

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<v Speaker 1>Could fishing off Maine? And his brother hooks into a

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<v Speaker 1>big fish. Uh no, I'll appreciate this. Yeah, hooks into

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<v Speaker 1>a fourteen foot blue shot and they're just fighting it

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<v Speaker 1>for the fun of it. And it's a strenuous fish fight.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a sharp go. A couple of days later, he

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<v Speaker 1>develops this horrible pain in his chest. I can't figure

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<v Speaker 1>out what it is. Thinks he pulled the muscle. Can't

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<v Speaker 1>figure out, but it gets worse and worse. Pain goes

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<v Speaker 1>to a doctor and he's got this tumor that he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know about and would have killed him. And somehow,

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<v Speaker 1>fighting that fish tweaks something in that tumor pressed up

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<v Speaker 1>against the nerve and alerted him to the presence of

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<v Speaker 1>that tumor, and they removed the tumor. Now he's fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Well all the story. Go fishing fish more with your brother. Finally,

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<v Speaker 1>here's here's one last one before we start, before we

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<v Speaker 1>get some other stuff. Um guy uh takes his dad

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<v Speaker 1>turkey hunting. His dad's sentimental type takes his dad turkey hunting.

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<v Speaker 1>They his dad gets a turkey and he gives the

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<v Speaker 1>kid the fan because he wants the fan mounted. The

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<v Speaker 1>guy's dog destroys it. I think it was his dog

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<v Speaker 1>destroys it. Wife's dog. Oh, you saw this story, wife's

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<v Speaker 1>dog destroyed. Like, what's the difference between your dog and

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<v Speaker 1>your wife's dog. Oh, I think it's just and it's

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<v Speaker 1>the same as I think it's the same thing as

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<v Speaker 1>if you tie the tune into your girlfriend's car. No,

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<v Speaker 1>my girlfriend's dog, No, one says my wife. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>they do, you know what I'm saying. Like, at a point,

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<v Speaker 1>we have two dogs. My dog is the good one.

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<v Speaker 1>My wife's dog is a bad one, and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>the white's dog. My wife she decided to get it

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<v Speaker 1>when we started dating. And and you don't, you've never

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<v Speaker 1>acted like it was your our dogs. No, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's our dog, but it's her dog, she said,

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<v Speaker 1>she's we're we're living together, and she said, um, I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to know, I put a deposit on a

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<v Speaker 1>chocolate lab puppy. So if we're gonna keep going with

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<v Speaker 1>this thing, we need to move into a pet friendly apartment.

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<v Speaker 1>And you, you know, do you want to go looking

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<v Speaker 1>for apartments with me or not? And so she made

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<v Speaker 1>that decision on her own, and he was going to

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<v Speaker 1>move whether you did or not. Yeah, she was like,

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<v Speaker 1>she was like, you want to you want to keep

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<v Speaker 1>this thing rolling for another year's lease, We need to

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<v Speaker 1>go find a pet friendly apartment. But she she put

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<v Speaker 1>a deposit on a puppy and did that all on

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<v Speaker 1>her own. And her dog. He's seven years old and

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<v Speaker 1>he's terrible and then uh what does he do? Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>he's just he's like now he's now on dog, big

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>difference between your dog dog go on randall. Now he's

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 1>just he's too much. He's just hyper. He's a yeah,

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:03.119
<v Speaker 1>he's a hunter pound lab and lab people are overwhelmed

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>by them. We actually had someone come over for dinner

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 1>and they hadn't seen him in about a year, and

0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 1>they said, oh, wow, you know, you guys are great.

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Most people I know wouldn't have kept that dog, no joke,

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 1>and and I mean we looked at each other like,

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't really know very many people that would get

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 1>rid of a dog, you know, just send him on

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 1>his way. But yeah, we got that from someone else.

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 1>You kept that thing around, didn't you. So But then

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>right before we got married, we got a second dog

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>and I got to pick that one, and she's perfect.

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 1>She's an angel. That's your dog, Rosie. Yeah, that's my

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 1>daughter's name. Kind of it's a good name. You know.

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I have to sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I have to compare that too, is

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>when I was younger that when um, we would get

0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 1>one of my siblings that I would get in trouble.

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 1>It seemed like, uh, the one the parent who was

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 1>pointing that out to the other parents, they would say,

0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 1>your son did this. Yeah, well that's because they're seeing

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 1>that behavior. I would guess being married and having kids,

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 1>they're seeing that that behavior the result of your influences.

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Well they said that. They're saying, like, because of you.

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>What they's what they're saying is because of you, your son,

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.440
<v Speaker 1>the parts of our child that are that oh to

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:36.600
<v Speaker 1>you are responsible for X. Can I get it back

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to this thing? His mas dog eats it. He then

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>his mom and dad must be divorced. So is my

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 1>dog eats the His mas dog eats the You follow me, yeah, mom, mom, Mom?

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, okay, well by the people might duck ducks,

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>probably losses. So I was just thinking childhood. I'll make

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 1>a flow diagrams. A guy. There's a guy, we'll call

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 1>him the kid. He takes his old man turkey hunt.

0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:14.919
<v Speaker 1>His old man shoes turkey. The kid then takes the

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 1>old man's turkey fan. His job is to mount the

0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 1>turkey fan as a gift to the old man. He

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 1>then takes it to his mom's house to store it.

0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 1>The mom's dog, if they are divorced, it's because the

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 1>mom's dog is still right out for vengeance, eats the

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 1>turkey fan. He then goes and gets a different turkeys fan,

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.440
<v Speaker 1>mounts that gives it to the old man. And never

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 1>tells the old man the truth. So the old man

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.399
<v Speaker 1>when people come over his house, he's stuck in the

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 1>awkward position of pointing it to the on the wall

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 1>and being like, see that, and then telling all about

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.840
<v Speaker 1>what happened, when in fact it's a lie. But the

0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>old man is not stuck in that position because he

0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.400
<v Speaker 1>doesn't know. He doesn't know. The guy is like, am

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>I that immoral? What do you think? I think it's

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:12.200
<v Speaker 1>keeping the peace, you know, between the parents, the divorced parents.

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm reading that into it. I don't know. Oh, I'm

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.360
<v Speaker 1>just guessing if that's the case. Though I agree with you,

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 1>if there really is at keeping the peace, that was

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:24.159
<v Speaker 1>a part of it. I feel like he would have

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.159
<v Speaker 1>said that it was a part of like that his

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>folks were divorced and now the ma know. I just

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.160
<v Speaker 1>think he felt bad. Yeah, it's not like he's trying

0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 1>to like preserve some little semblance of you know, some

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>little semblance of family, you know, dignity this left after

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.520
<v Speaker 1>this tumultuous divorce. He's not laying out that level of trouble.

0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>It all comes down to whether he can live with

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.520
<v Speaker 1>his little white lie or not. I think that it's immoral,

0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 1>and I would tell the old man. You might not

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 1>remember this. Are you innocuous? Do you remember? Well, let

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.400
<v Speaker 1>me tell you a lie. Let me tell you something

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 1>that happened to me, and you'll know all the players

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.199
<v Speaker 1>probably has something to do with something. So when we

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.760
<v Speaker 1>were little, real little, you know, how daddies to take us,

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.639
<v Speaker 1>like you could go fishing on your birthday. Yeah, it

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:23.000
<v Speaker 1>was my flied. I don't remember that, like you would

0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:24.919
<v Speaker 1>often get the you would get the play hooky if

0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.919
<v Speaker 1>you wanted an ice fish on your birthday, because I

0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.640
<v Speaker 1>had a February birthday or whatever, different activities. He took

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:37.639
<v Speaker 1>me out and a guy caught a big northern not not.

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Our party was me and Dad and I think alcoholic

0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>was with us and a guy do people know who

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.359
<v Speaker 1>that is? No, you've introduced him before, but it's a

0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 1>great name. But he would develop such a thirst. He

0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>would develop such a thirst, uh during his outings that

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 1>he offered, couldn't had to get home. Um. Another guy

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.399
<v Speaker 1>catches a pike and he doesn't want and Dad wants it,

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.479
<v Speaker 1>wants it, so Dad takes it and it freezes up

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.320
<v Speaker 1>like how they do. And my dad says to me

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>hey and throws it to me and I catch it. Uh,

0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 1>and he says, you just caught a pike. And I

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.440
<v Speaker 1>later told Ron Spring, who was a commercial bait fisherman.

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 1>Ron Spring made a living catching wigglers and digging worms

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:35.520
<v Speaker 1>and catching mentals. I told Ron Spring, I caught a pike.

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't know if I if it's a

0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.679
<v Speaker 1>good use of our time to do a post mortem

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 1>on those two lies. But that one, that one seems

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 1>far worse. It's just I'm putting myself, Yeah, that's real bad.

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>But I'm putting myself in the role not of the dad.

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm putting myself in the role of the sun where

0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.400
<v Speaker 1>he's living with a lie. But there's the whole bit

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 1>that that that the dad actually did get a turkey,

0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.439
<v Speaker 1>and it's just, yeah, you know you didn't get ship

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 1>and then you made it. I'm not putting myself in

0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the role to dad. I'm putting myself in the role.

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 1>And I it would have cost him anything to come

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.439
<v Speaker 1>clean and be like, look, here's a deal. This is

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 1>what I did, is what happened. Let's go get another

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 1>turkey next spring. What I would do is record this

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.159
<v Speaker 1>and send it to him. And let him put it

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 1>together or tell him after he gets into their turkey,

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 1>because maybe it won't be like you know, Pops, you'll

0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>you'll appreciate this. Okay, let's get on what we're fixing

0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.639
<v Speaker 1>the talk about. Oh, not one last thing. Rand Williams

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:49.719
<v Speaker 1>is here, yes, uh minus his pituitary gland. Yes. How

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.480
<v Speaker 1>does it feel? Um? Are you as smart as he

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.720
<v Speaker 1>used to be? No, I'm not really categorically not really. Yeah,

0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 1>tell me more. Um, A lot of issues with memory

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:08.160
<v Speaker 1>and um, short term and long term memory. Yeah. Oh,

0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know. I was joking when I said that

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 1>we can cut this out. So you've been feeling you've

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:18.160
<v Speaker 1>been since since it's been it's been a pretty uh,

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 1>it's been a pretty rough road, just ups and downs.

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, for I mean, I had a lot of

0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 1>symptoms that were pretty similar to like a traumatic brain injury. Really. Yeah,

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't worth of that the bad that I asked.

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm pretty upfront about it all. Are you replacement? Yeah,

0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm on. Um. I'm on a couple of different hormone

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 1>replacements like testosterone and thyroid hormone, and I take hydrocortison,

0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 1>which replaces cortisol um. And then I've got stimulants, I've

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.920
<v Speaker 1>got antidepressants, I've got sleeping pills, I've got the whole mix.

0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Are you serious? And and and growth hormone. So every

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 1>morning I'm like Barry Bonds really, yeah, yeah, it's the

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.879
<v Speaker 1>real deal. Oh, I mean I knew that this is

0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 1>a big deal, but I didn't know that you were.

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>Really I didn't know there's that much to it. Yeah, No,

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 1>it's been a pretty serious Uh, it's been been a

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 1>pretty serious um struggle. But better than the alternative. I'm

0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 1>all good. Yeah, you're on the right side of the gray.

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 1>He did get big, he did get a big bear.

0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I did, Yeah, I got a big bear. Um still

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 1>hunting still, that's true. Yeah, I just meant in the

0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:44.240
<v Speaker 1>general sense, I have tags for this, not yourder get

0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 1>in trouble. No, Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. I m

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:51.119
<v Speaker 1>start a new job around that time, and I had

0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 1>to postpone the start of that job for about a

0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:59.399
<v Speaker 1>month while I went to California and got surgery. And yeah,

0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 1>so it's gonna learned a lot about the human body

0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:08.920
<v Speaker 1>and a lot about myself. And uh, yeah, I didn't

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.199
<v Speaker 1>mean to make this so serious. No, you didn't. But

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:16.080
<v Speaker 1>I guess what's happened is you being so casual about it.

0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>It was like effective, Yeah, at least in the way

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 1>you're putting it forth. You were putting it forth to

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 1>your friends. That just seemed the casual about it. So

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:25.159
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was more casual than it is. No,

0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:27.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean I've been uh, I mean I haven't. I

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 1>haven't held any secrets, um, but I haven't really broadcast

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:33.920
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of this stuff. I don't put any

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.359
<v Speaker 1>of that on social media or anything like that. But

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:38.439
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of hard to This is a little bit

0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>worse than the UM. Well, yeah, no, I mean it's

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.520
<v Speaker 1>some of the symptoms like I can't hide, you know,

0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 1>like sometimes for a while there, I was like crying

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 1>all the time and just have very little control over

0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 1>my emotions and all that stuff. So do you enjoy

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 1>movies more now? You know. I've always been a crier

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:03.879
<v Speaker 1>at the cinema, so that that hasn't changed much. But yeah,

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's pretty crazy all these chemicals and processes in

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 1>your body, and UM kind of take for granted that

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:21.440
<v Speaker 1>at all works. But we're figuring it out, and luckily

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>I've had a lot of help with that. So yeah,

0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:33.320
<v Speaker 1>anything else, No, I'm typing something. I just feel like

0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm at the doctor's office my symptoms, and you're taking notes. Um,

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:41.919
<v Speaker 1>if you read the doctor's office, another dude will come

0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 1>in here a minute and ask you the saint set

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 1>of questions. And I didn't have a cope when I

0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 1>like I was saying, like I was saying to the

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>other person that was just in here a minute ago. Yeah, No,

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's yeah, I mean just to some up.

0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:02.439
<v Speaker 1>It's been tough, but it's all good. We're figuring it out. Damn. Yeah, Yeah,

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:04.920
<v Speaker 1>it's weird. Later I'll ask you if there's anything else

0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 1>we can do to help. I don't think so. Um, well,

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>back when you had your pituitary glad you uh all

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>the people here, So the reason what what? What? One

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:23.399
<v Speaker 1>of the commonalities I'm trying to say, one of the

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 1>commonalities that binds our friend Randall Williams and Doug during

0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:31.520
<v Speaker 1>my brother matt Ronello is that they were all uh

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:37.399
<v Speaker 1>participants for good and bad um in the documentary film

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>that we recently released called Stars in the Sky and

0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:44.120
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we want to talk about this a little

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 1>bit and kind of do you know talk about the

0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 1>making of an aftermath of and the themes that we

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:53.560
<v Speaker 1>explore in the movie the movie if you uh, if

0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:55.000
<v Speaker 1>you want to go watch this and that that's what

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 1>this is really about. I learned that there's a writer,

0:26:57.359 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 1>Ian Fraser, and he always says that he's written a

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of book books, and he says he likes the

0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:05.480
<v Speaker 1>very cleanly um in the beginning of his books, tell

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:08.639
<v Speaker 1>people what a book was about. So he begins a

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 1>book with the line, this is a book about Indians.

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 1>You want if people know what they're getting into. Um.

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.520
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, the goal this here is that you will

0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 1>go watch this movie somewhere to watch the movie, honest,

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:29.920
<v Speaker 1>you have to go to you know you have. It's

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>called Stars in the Sky a Hunting Story. But what's

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the website? Stars in this guy film? And it brings

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 1>you to Vimeo and you gotta pay some money. But

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:40.359
<v Speaker 1>it's like really helpful to us if you do. You

0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:42.040
<v Speaker 1>gotta pay some money and you can stream it and

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.720
<v Speaker 1>download it. Super helpful if you do. We started the

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:47.600
<v Speaker 1>film like it was kind of such it's such a

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 1>weird story how it went because we started the film.

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Do you even remember that's how I met Brody who

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:56.720
<v Speaker 1>now works with us. When we film the first bit

0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>of the film was several summers ago. Shifties in the

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.920
<v Speaker 1>film and she's five, Well does that help? Well, it

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:09.119
<v Speaker 1>was no more than five years ago. Oh, I see,

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 1>But but that was not even when we started making it. Oh,

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 1>I started making it several summers ago. You didn't film

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 1>me first, No, the first thing, like after me, you

0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 1>filmed me in fifteen or sixteen? Was it really that

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:25.639
<v Speaker 1>long ago? Oh? My god? It was right after we

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:30.439
<v Speaker 1>did the first podcast, which was like June of and

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 1>we had we had already filmed parts of it then

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:36.119
<v Speaker 1>because the first like, going into it, we knew we

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:38.280
<v Speaker 1>were gonna do, we kind of knew we were gonna

0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:42.959
<v Speaker 1>do two things going into it. It was gonna be

0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:50.240
<v Speaker 1>this exploration of um sort of the mindset and conflicts

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:56.720
<v Speaker 1>and contradictions and loves and hates and worries and joys

0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>of contemporary America and hunters. Ah and I felt that,

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, when we started working on it, we felt

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 1>that to do this you needed to kind of show

0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 1>like what a hunting trip looked like, to demonstrate to

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 1>people what it could be and how it could feel

0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 1>and smell and look. And so the first thing we

0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:19.720
<v Speaker 1>did in the movie was we just went and recorded.

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 1>We went and filmed a hunt, and we filmed the

0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 1>hunt in Alaska for Sia blacktail deer. And it was

0:29:27.640 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>meant to in some ways. If people watch Me Eat

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Meat Eater or the TV show You kind of Get You,

0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 1>you can almost kind of imagine what this hunt might be.

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Though it's it's structured very differently, but just like this

0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of like through line. It starts with someone leaving,

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.720
<v Speaker 1>leaving a building and striking off into the woods, and

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 1>the ends with someone coming back to a building. Um,

0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and what I thought when I when I mapped out

0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:57.320
<v Speaker 1>in the movie like the things I wanted to talk about,

0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:01.120
<v Speaker 1>the thing, the themes I wanted to explore and ask

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:05.760
<v Speaker 1>various hunters from around the country their impressions of and uh,

0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I realized that all of these topics were things that

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:17.360
<v Speaker 1>could pretty easily spring off of conversations that one might

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:19.920
<v Speaker 1>have or thoughts that one might have, or spring off

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 1>actions and things that could happen on a hunt. So

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:27.600
<v Speaker 1>this through line of this hunt winds up being winds

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 1>up presenting these conversation starters and later over the one

0:30:34.000 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 1>of being Over the years as we were able to

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 1>do it, we interviewed a great many people from all

0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>around the country and asked them uh their particular thoughts

0:30:48.360 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and this is kind of where some of the contradictions

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:53.880
<v Speaker 1>came into place, their particular thoughts about these themes and

0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 1>issues that come up, and then assemble this thing like

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>like a documentary film. And in an added voice I

0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:05.520
<v Speaker 1>wanted to bring in, it's it's I'd like to actually

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 1>want to get him on an added voice that I

0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:11.720
<v Speaker 1>brought in as a philosopher and an animal rights ethicist

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 1>named Robert Jones. And he's a steady line as being

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 1>someone who's not connected to hunting and is actually adversarial

0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:26.280
<v Speaker 1>to hunting, like opposes hunting outright. And he also speaks

0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 1>about these different themes we did we we want to

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:34.400
<v Speaker 1>interview in add that. He's definitely he's definitely a star

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 1>of the dock. I think that very credible. He really

0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 1>adds a lot. You know, it's a very smart move

0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 1>I think on your part on directing that. But I

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 1>mean just to have both view points. You know, everybody

0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 1>that I talked to is like, I mean, good thing

0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 1>you had him in there, you know, one thing you

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:58.760
<v Speaker 1>always get from people is you always get get people.

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:01.520
<v Speaker 1>We can kind this a lot because when you're like

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>dealing with the ideas, people get angry when you give

0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:08.440
<v Speaker 1>someone a voice. They think that giving someone a voice

0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:14.640
<v Speaker 1>in media, the giving someone a voice is tacit approval

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 1>of what that person has to say, or that you

0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:23.320
<v Speaker 1>by giving someone a voice, you endorse what they have

0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>to say. And I hear about it a little bit

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.560
<v Speaker 1>for his inclusion in the movie, like why would you

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.480
<v Speaker 1>give voice to him? And then when we had Rob

0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Bishop on the podcast and like like we have a

0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>pretty consistent pro public lands, like like you know, as

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:44.240
<v Speaker 1>a company whatever, we have a pretty consistent pro public

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:48.880
<v Speaker 1>lands philosophy. And Rob Bishop is um I don't want

0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 1>to call him anti public lands at all, but he's

0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, uh opposes a lot of the things I

0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 1>believe in around public lands management. And people are like,

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe you get Rob Bishop a voice. Like

0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Rob Bishop is the Chairman of the House Natural was

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 1>the chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee. I don't

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>know that he's lacking a voice, Like I wasn't like

0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I went and found someone who had no way to

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the guy could talk to anyone wants anytime

0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:19.200
<v Speaker 1>he wants, and this animal rights guy as a professor

0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 1>at a school in California, doesn't lack a voice, but

0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 1>it want to be in one of That was probably

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 1>one of my favorite interviews that we did for that

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:35.040
<v Speaker 1>because it was so it was really challenging to It

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>was challenging the kind like if we were sparring um.

0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:42.280
<v Speaker 1>It was challenging. He brought up some really challenging ideas.

0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>So if uh, like Richard Spencer R Kelly haunted, would

0:33:48.800 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 1>you have them on UM's It's a really good question, Like,

0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:04.200
<v Speaker 1>knowing what we now know about R Kelly, if we

0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 1>were doing a film, you know why I probably wouldn't.

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:16.400
<v Speaker 1>I probably wouldn't because what he's most known for, which

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:20.839
<v Speaker 1>is sex abuse of minors in the case R Kelly,

0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 1>what he's most known for, isn't what I would be

0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 1>asking about. It was so peripheral to the conversation that

0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 1>that aspect of their personality or that aspect of their

0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 1>biogopy would be this this like really weighty thing in

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 1>the room. Yeah, we just sat down and did an

0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:46.680
<v Speaker 1>interview with We did an interview with Bo Jackson about

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 1>his relationship with hunting. Um. And as part of that,

0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:54.960
<v Speaker 1>you can imagine that we talked a lot about his

0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:59.840
<v Speaker 1>career as an athlete, because it would sort of be

0:34:59.880 --> 0:35:03.440
<v Speaker 1>the it's like weird thing to have not come up,

0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:06.400
<v Speaker 1>the elephant in the room. Yeah, and so in that case,

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I see, like that's good Devil's advocating. But in that way, yeah,

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:11.200
<v Speaker 1>I was trying to put you in a spot. I

0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:16.359
<v Speaker 1>was just legitimately it was legitimately curious. Oh yeah, but

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:21.399
<v Speaker 1>but this dude was fascinating. Um, Like his main thing

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:25.360
<v Speaker 1>is that that the main point he tries to get across.

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:26.960
<v Speaker 1>You have to watch because I could, like I kind

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 1>of cheery rather than like picking moments where he didn't

0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:34.279
<v Speaker 1>do great. I picked I felt like I that I

0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.360
<v Speaker 1>should say, ah, that we working on it. Kind of

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:41.560
<v Speaker 1>picked his best points, you know. And and he countered

0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 1>like he has really good counters for things where hunters

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 1>love to Hunters love to talk about it's natural, right, Oh,

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Man's always hunted. If we didn't hunt, we wouldn't be

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:57.880
<v Speaker 1>here today. It's natural. And he brings up there are

0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:07.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of things that are natural fratricide, matricide, right,

0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 1>that have always occurred. Does that it's yeah, does that

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 1>mean it's like, does that in and of itself in

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.799
<v Speaker 1>an endorsement of the activity? Right? That's not it's not

0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:21.799
<v Speaker 1>a vindication of hunting that's always been done. I mean

0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 1>we've always, like in the Grand in the like from

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:36.439
<v Speaker 1>a historical historical perspective, we've always not driven cars, you know. Yeah,

0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:38.520
<v Speaker 1>So let me finish my I want to finish my

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 1>little preamble here. Then were gettato a couple of other things,

0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.920
<v Speaker 1>cause Janni has Yanni has some uh he's thought about

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:45.920
<v Speaker 1>how how to discuss this, and he's got a good

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 1>idea for it. But the preamble being but I had

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:53.440
<v Speaker 1>this idea that it felt very cohesive. Um, and then

0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:55.799
<v Speaker 1>we talked to so many people, and then you run

0:36:55.840 --> 0:37:00.719
<v Speaker 1>into this problem where how long is something? So then

0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:02.799
<v Speaker 1>you in the end you have ninety minutes or so

0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 1>hundred minutes, and you go through the very very painful

0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:23.880
<v Speaker 1>process of narrowing this down to where you have a

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 1>hundred plus hours of interviews with people that you need

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:32.560
<v Speaker 1>to fit into one minutes, and then you wind up

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:36.239
<v Speaker 1>with something where someone would watch it and not. This

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 1>isn't saying something is good or bad. It's just a

0:37:38.120 --> 0:37:41.640
<v Speaker 1>fact of life. Someone would watch it and never have

0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:45.960
<v Speaker 1>and never have any idea what it was, how you

0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:50.440
<v Speaker 1>framed it in your head, because it only makes sense, right,

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the framing of it only makes sense to someone who

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:58.520
<v Speaker 1>felt that they were seeing like a process that they

0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:01.200
<v Speaker 1>were trying to put in place. When it's all done,

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 1>you can't expect that people would watch you go like, oh,

0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I see what you're doing, you know, because so much

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 1>falls away, Like when we started this show that you're

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 1>listening to right now, I had like a precise idea

0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:17.759
<v Speaker 1>of what I was trying to do. No one has

0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:20.680
<v Speaker 1>ever written and said, you know what, I see what

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:25.200
<v Speaker 1>you did there. It's just it lives in your head

0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:29.759
<v Speaker 1>only you know. But the the guiding through line is

0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 1>just these these these themes, And we're gonna ask you

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:38.920
<v Speaker 1>guys a little bit about your feelings about these themes

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and thoughts that you might have had um and and

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 1>you could speak to like kind of like what you

0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 1>meant and what was represented in the movie, or if

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:52.120
<v Speaker 1>things that you wish you said and hadn't said. And

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.720
<v Speaker 1>one thing I want to start with with Matt and

0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:57.799
<v Speaker 1>and this was like in there almost up to the end,

0:38:57.840 --> 0:38:59.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's in there. It's not in there.

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 1>It was the ending for a long time. For a

0:39:01.600 --> 0:39:04.120
<v Speaker 1>long time, the ending of the movie, almost the ending

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:09.000
<v Speaker 1>of the movie was you saying, if you woke me

0:39:09.080 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 1>up a hundred years from now is how many years

0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:18.040
<v Speaker 1>he had said, if you woke me up hundred years

0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:21.440
<v Speaker 1>from now and told me there was no hunting, I

0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:26.360
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't care. M hm. I

0:39:26.400 --> 0:39:30.560
<v Speaker 1>don't remember saying that, but but yeah, I guess I

0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>still I still that still were saying, I don't believe

0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:40.319
<v Speaker 1>in hunting for hunting's sake. I'm just stuck being this. Yeah, yeah,

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:44.799
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't think that. I don't think that

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 1>hunting makes someone a better person. Mm hmm um. If

0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:53.239
<v Speaker 1>you want somebody to be a better person, there's better, other,

0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.560
<v Speaker 1>more constructive uses of their time. It's like I was

0:39:56.560 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>going to advocate for something after that that's gonna carry

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>on after I'm gone. It wouldn't be hunting. I mean,

0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:09.799
<v Speaker 1>reading books maybe, or volunteering, you know, being a good

0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 1>civil servant. It's far more important to me than the

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 1>future of hunting whence I'm gone. If I if I

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 1>care about hunting at all after I'm gone. It's because

0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:27.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, I it's I guess it would be. I'd

0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.799
<v Speaker 1>have to be convinced, and I partially am that it's

0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:33.239
<v Speaker 1>it's good for wildlife conservation. I guess there's part of

0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 1>me that wants to look down from the heavens and

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 1>see wild animals running around still, But yeah, I don't.

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:44.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't see hunting is making people better. When we

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 1>were assembling the movie, we took all of the people

0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:53.080
<v Speaker 1>that we interviewed and asked them about their hopes and

0:40:53.120 --> 0:41:01.080
<v Speaker 1>fears for the future. Everyone was really when when talking

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:06.759
<v Speaker 1>about like a future everyone um, except for two individuals,

0:41:07.320 --> 0:41:10.800
<v Speaker 1>my two brothers. We're the only people out of everyone

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:14.760
<v Speaker 1>we talked to who didn't in some way worry about

0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:19.120
<v Speaker 1>what would be lost. Hm. And these are two the

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:23.720
<v Speaker 1>people that I know that like it the most. Yeah,

0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 1>I uh, I just watched Dr Mary for the first

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:29.879
<v Speaker 1>time a couple of nights ago, and I do remember, like,

0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:33.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of the way I described it, that I'm

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:37.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm stuck being a hunter. I would, I mean I

0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:42.960
<v Speaker 1>would just I would have an identity crisis that forty

0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:46.840
<v Speaker 1>eight years of age would be just kind of jarring.

0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.480
<v Speaker 1>If all of a sudden I stopped hunting, you know,

0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:53.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what I do or how I would

0:41:53.320 --> 0:42:01.439
<v Speaker 1>relate to what might what would preoccupy my thoughts, you know. So, um,

0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 1>that's why I guess I hunt my kids recently. I

0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:08.719
<v Speaker 1>brought us up a couple of times, I think, but

0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 1>my kids were recently asking about like why we had

0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:16.200
<v Speaker 1>to go? Um, I think it was ice fishing on

0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:18.160
<v Speaker 1>a cold day, and like why do we have to

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 1>go ice fishing? It's so cold? So well, you know,

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I can think of a bunch of reasons, but one

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.720
<v Speaker 1>would be you'll get to hang out with way cooler

0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:32.920
<v Speaker 1>people if you learn how to do this. And so

0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:35.319
<v Speaker 1>when I think, when I think about, like if someone says, oh,

0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:36.799
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be in fifth years, it will be gone,

0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:40.920
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to have a huh.

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:44.879
<v Speaker 1>It would like really make me sad. But a lot

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:50.839
<v Speaker 1>of it would be nostalgia. Nostalgia for like a verse,

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 1>like the version of it that I experienced and imagine

0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that other people would experience. Yeah, yeah, there's I mean,

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:05.759
<v Speaker 1>so many of my positive memories about hunting our about

0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the people I hunt with. I mean that is, it's

0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the it's um doing these adventurous things with UM people

0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:20.600
<v Speaker 1>I care about. I don't like. I don't like it

0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:23.920
<v Speaker 1>as a means for meeting new people very much. I

0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:27.600
<v Speaker 1>just have this small group of people that I hunt with.

0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:29.680
<v Speaker 1>If I'm gonna make friends with somebody, I don't want

0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:33.520
<v Speaker 1>it to be like through hunting. Probably that's it's in

0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:38.319
<v Speaker 1>a vehicle for forming friendships for me really, although like

0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:40.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of my closest friends I've

0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.319
<v Speaker 1>met through hunting, but I don't want to. I don't

0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.359
<v Speaker 1>use it in that way. You know, like if if

0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 1>you're at a wedding reception and someone looks across the

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:50.640
<v Speaker 1>room and says, oh, you know that guy likes the

0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:53.279
<v Speaker 1>hunt a lot, you don't feel like a gravitational point.

0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:55.279
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to him about it, and then

0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.719
<v Speaker 1>but if if he's if he's, I mean, there's just

0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 1>some first first out and show me all the big

0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:05.640
<v Speaker 1>ship they got, and then I'm gonna be jealous, and

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.479
<v Speaker 1>then I'm gonna wish that you would go they'd go away.

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:13.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, you could always I met Doug and Janice

0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:16.399
<v Speaker 1>through hunting, and I could see very good friends of mine,

0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.600
<v Speaker 1>so I don't know. I just really think this out. Well,

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:21.879
<v Speaker 1>you know what you always on the conversation is gonna

0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:23.759
<v Speaker 1>go wrong when you had like and when you had

0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 1>a wedding reception and you go and talk to the

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 1>guy that someone says like the hunt, you'd be like, oh, yeah,

0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:31.799
<v Speaker 1>what you has been what have you been hunting? You're like, oh, yeah,

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 1>we've been getting a lot of turkeys used twelve gauge. Always,

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:40.160
<v Speaker 1>you always know that should be the twentiest thing, you know,

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, oh yeah, I had a guy. If it's

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:44.759
<v Speaker 1>not like, oh yeah, where do you guys go, I

0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 1>had a guy on the ranch where my the my

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:52.080
<v Speaker 1>wife co owns and works Dude ranch. Another co owner.

0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:55.719
<v Speaker 1>He likes to careful now he likes to talk hunt

0:44:55.840 --> 0:45:01.400
<v Speaker 1>once in a while. Careful. You should have set it

0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:06.680
<v Speaker 1>up different. Yeah, yo, thank you, thank you. Man. I

0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:10.479
<v Speaker 1>would not. I wasn't even thinking about that. I guess

0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:13.120
<v Speaker 1>I've grown comfortable with this podcasting thing. I just think

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:17.000
<v Speaker 1>it's conversation. Yeah, you know, No, you're right, You're absolutely right.

0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:19.160
<v Speaker 1>It would. It could be devastating. I don't know, we'll

0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 1>cut it out. I don't know if she listens to

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:25.840
<v Speaker 1>this or not. We'll cut it out. Um no, no, no, no,

0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:27.480
<v Speaker 1>you don't need to cut it out. I can keep

0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 1>this part in. Yeah, really, yeah, I'm willing. I mean,

0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.240
<v Speaker 1>we didn't don't even say where I was really going

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:36.399
<v Speaker 1>with it. There's an everything you say in the movie,

0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:37.960
<v Speaker 1>and you do say this in the movie, and I

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:42.160
<v Speaker 1>love the line what I just I was now I

0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:44.920
<v Speaker 1>want to know you can ask him later. There was

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:52.759
<v Speaker 1>another there was another person, different in a different locale,

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:58.839
<v Speaker 1>and they said, they said to me exactly, you say,

0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:02.080
<v Speaker 1>when when when? Then your armor? The weapon is the

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:05.760
<v Speaker 1>first thing that comes up. It's just a bad sign

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:09.680
<v Speaker 1>of renversation is gonna go. And uh, because I just

0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.440
<v Speaker 1>think of weapons is something that you used to slow

0:46:12.480 --> 0:46:14.279
<v Speaker 1>down animals so that you can cook and eat them.

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:17.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't give a funk about that ship, you know, halftime,

0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:23.280
<v Speaker 1>I can't even remember what calumber my goddamn rightful. Um

0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:27.279
<v Speaker 1>so uh he said, so what do you used to

0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:31.439
<v Speaker 1>kill them? And he wanted me to go over fifty five?

0:46:33.239 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, I said, a shotgun. Your ship's a shotgun

0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:47.840
<v Speaker 1>with bullets, and um, the thing you say in the movie,

0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.080
<v Speaker 1>and I love it, and people it's like the one

0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:53.279
<v Speaker 1>line that people bring up the people like the most

0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 1>in the movie. And I don't even know what you

0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:56.319
<v Speaker 1>really mean by I mean, I know what you mean,

0:46:56.400 --> 0:47:00.719
<v Speaker 1>but but you're saying, Uh, you said if if used

0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 1>to have cabbages head legst them too. Yeah, I think that.

0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:10.960
<v Speaker 1>So is it that you like to hunt things that

0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:14.920
<v Speaker 1>have legs? Well, I like to hunt things that are motile.

0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:22.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean I also does that word mean that they move? Yeah?

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Not mobile? Well? Yeah, I think it's just another way

0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:29.239
<v Speaker 1>of saying the same thing. I'm checking. There's also well,

0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:32.319
<v Speaker 1>you know what a one animal? It doesn't move? Is

0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:36.640
<v Speaker 1>there an organism that doesn't move? Is cecil? It's a

0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>cecil organism. No, you're right, capable of motion. Yeah, and

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>I like I like to gather cecil organisms. I just

0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:46.799
<v Speaker 1>gathered some horse mushrooms the other day. How you've been

0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 1>doing a while asparagus kicking ass? It's been really, really good.

0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:54.640
<v Speaker 1>My PA's been stinking every day. That's good. Can you

0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:56.920
<v Speaker 1>tell people a hot tip and find a while to asparagus?

0:47:57.360 --> 0:48:02.360
<v Speaker 1>You taught me? Oh uh, you spot it driving down

0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:04.920
<v Speaker 1>the river in your boat at full tilt. You gotta

0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 1>look for last year's stems. Do you have it in Wisconsin. Yeah, ditch,

0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:16.080
<v Speaker 1>we we have that too, but no, that, yeah, is

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a pretty pretty abundant there um if you know where

0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.480
<v Speaker 1>to go. You know, yeah, your riverboat isn't fast, but

0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:25.279
<v Speaker 1>you've I've seen you spot it at full tilt. Oh yeah.

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:30.320
<v Speaker 1>And and and you know I can also spot green

0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:36.440
<v Speaker 1>new stems full tilt. Really yeah, I just kind of

0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.560
<v Speaker 1>get a search image in your brain. Tell them about

0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:41.320
<v Speaker 1>to tell them about last year's growth, because this is

0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:43.319
<v Speaker 1>a hot til. Yeah, so you look for the last

0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:46.880
<v Speaker 1>year's stalks, as you know, and it puts off a

0:48:47.000 --> 0:48:54.160
<v Speaker 1>branch at a perfect, perfect ninety perfect perpendicular to where

0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the branch with the stem creates two perfect forty five

0:48:57.480 --> 0:48:59.640
<v Speaker 1>degree angles. And that's key because there's a lot of

0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:05.399
<v Speaker 1>other plants that superficially look like you know, the death

0:49:05.400 --> 0:49:08.000
<v Speaker 1>stems look superficially like. But the way that branch comes

0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:12.640
<v Speaker 1>off that stem like you could square a house with that. Something.

0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Bit man, I've been finding something like I don't know why,

0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:18.080
<v Speaker 1>but it seems like at the tail end of the

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 1>season they get fatter, and I've been finding some freaking

0:49:21.600 --> 0:49:25.759
<v Speaker 1>quarter pounders lately. Figure around as a silver dollar. It's

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:30.239
<v Speaker 1>like a steak knife. Yeah, it's just as good, right,

0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:32.680
<v Speaker 1>And that's interesting. And I realized that because I got

0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:36.080
<v Speaker 1>some that was growing in a garden from Doug's wife.

0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:38.520
<v Speaker 1>That's the easiest way to find it is just to

0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:44.600
<v Speaker 1>actually propagate it. And when she first over in that

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:50.360
<v Speaker 1>part of my garden over there, when she first busted

0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:55.400
<v Speaker 1>him out, I'm kind of like, oh, those big old things,

0:49:55.560 --> 0:49:57.879
<v Speaker 1>because when you like, I never buy asparagous it looks

0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:00.400
<v Speaker 1>like that in the store because it's gross. Oh, but

0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:01.880
<v Speaker 1>out of the ground, man, you can get like a

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:05.400
<v Speaker 1>carrot stick. Yeah, I mean just unbelievable the difference, Like

0:50:05.440 --> 0:50:07.640
<v Speaker 1>you said, just as tender and as tasty as the

0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:12.160
<v Speaker 1>little guy. It's all non native, right, yeah, it's all

0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:15.000
<v Speaker 1>like fair It's like Farrell house cats, but fairrell asparagus.

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:20.800
<v Speaker 1>So uh if cabbages had legs that hunt them too, well.

0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I think that Dan Doty was there that day and

0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:29.160
<v Speaker 1>he asked me, what is it about meat? And that's

0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:35.560
<v Speaker 1>what precipitated all right, So I guess there. I don't

0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:37.040
<v Speaker 1>want to, I just just seemed to be there, like

0:50:37.120 --> 0:50:39.920
<v Speaker 1>that's all about meat. It's like, I love to eat

0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:46.520
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of food. I love vegetables, I love. It's

0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:53.359
<v Speaker 1>just so yeah, that's that's the product of hunting. The

0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 1>food product of hunting just so happens to be meat.

0:50:57.280 --> 0:51:00.879
<v Speaker 1>But if if cabbages ran around the woods, I would

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:05.640
<v Speaker 1>freaking love to go hunt me a cabbage. You don't like,

0:51:06.520 --> 0:51:08.280
<v Speaker 1>not that you won't do it like you're eating restaurants

0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:13.919
<v Speaker 1>Like the rest of us, you don't relish buying meat. Well,

0:51:13.960 --> 0:51:16.719
<v Speaker 1>with one exception, my it just so happens that my

0:51:17.280 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 1>three favorite foods are um conventionally raised meat products. Tell

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 1>me more do um bologny No, chicken wings with ranch,

0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 1>chicken wings with blue cheese, and chicken wings are my

0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:41.640
<v Speaker 1>three favorite foods. Well, that changed because your old favorite

0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:47.120
<v Speaker 1>food was pizza and your second, No, your favorite food

0:51:47.160 --> 0:51:51.640
<v Speaker 1>was hot wings. Your second favorite food was pizza. And

0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:53.680
<v Speaker 1>then one day, this is a big deal, this is

0:51:53.680 --> 0:51:56.520
<v Speaker 1>a big moment. I like the story. One day you

0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:59.000
<v Speaker 1>go into a restaurant and they had hot wing pizza,

0:51:59.239 --> 0:52:01.520
<v Speaker 1>which was not and you ordered it and were surprised

0:52:01.520 --> 0:52:03.759
<v Speaker 1>that it wasn't good and it really likes shook it

0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:08.920
<v Speaker 1>up too much, And remember how delighted you were. It

0:52:08.960 --> 0:52:10.680
<v Speaker 1>was like the first time we when I'd done I

0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:13.480
<v Speaker 1>think Nita was there and we were in Ennis maybe

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:16.520
<v Speaker 1>and we went to some random, you know restaurant that's

0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:18.399
<v Speaker 1>that was the first year was opened, probably last year

0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:20.799
<v Speaker 1>was open. And you looked at the menu and you're like,

0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:25.200
<v Speaker 1>this is my kind of place. All was was like pizza,

0:52:25.520 --> 0:52:29.440
<v Speaker 1>hot dogs, wings, and you were one of everything and

0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:32.440
<v Speaker 1>ate one of everything and just happy it's convenient. Do

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:38.120
<v Speaker 1>like I do like the bar food we and another

0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:40.400
<v Speaker 1>thing I really like. And I just gotta say this

0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 1>and I'll stop talking so much, But I really like

0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm asking you questions right now. I really like I'm

0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:49.359
<v Speaker 1>working around the way you don't deal poker. I'm going

0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:55.840
<v Speaker 1>to Okay. I like, um uh, some thin sliced turkey

0:52:56.320 --> 0:52:59.920
<v Speaker 1>on wonder bread with a bunch of mayo and cranberry sauce,

0:53:00.800 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 1>like Thanksgiving leftovers. That's a favorite food. So you've expressed

0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:15.120
<v Speaker 1>like you don't relish buying meat. I don't buy him.

0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't buy me because it's it's a it's a

0:53:21.719 --> 0:53:24.160
<v Speaker 1>major treat and my wife, but you don't you go

0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:27.840
<v Speaker 1>buy wife ways probably a hundred and what do you

0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:34.920
<v Speaker 1>think thirty pounds? Yeah, she's one thirty. He eats as

0:53:35.040 --> 0:53:37.120
<v Speaker 1>much food or more food than I do. And I'm

0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:42.440
<v Speaker 1>not exaggerating that woman can freaking monster truck some chicken wings,

0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:45.880
<v Speaker 1>and so it's kind of like something we do together.

0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:55.600
<v Speaker 1>So so, uh, what I'm getting at here? Let me

0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 1>tell you where I'm going with this. You don't relish

0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:01.520
<v Speaker 1>buying meat, No, I don't. I don't buy me except

0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:03.759
<v Speaker 1>when I go to a restaurant. Yeah, and a lot

0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:05.680
<v Speaker 1>of that, like it comes from a couple of places,

0:54:05.760 --> 0:54:08.319
<v Speaker 1>I think. And you've expressed this, and I'm sure you're like,

0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:11.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you're feelings about it evolved and changed over

0:54:11.440 --> 0:54:13.759
<v Speaker 1>the years, because all of our feelings evolved and changed

0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:17.239
<v Speaker 1>over the years. But I think that you are a

0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:21.680
<v Speaker 1>naturally very frugal person um, and you would never be like, well,

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:26.799
<v Speaker 1>why would I buy something when I have like an

0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:30.279
<v Speaker 1>approximation of it in my freezer? And you're not any like, sure,

0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:32.640
<v Speaker 1>it's more convenient that it's all like ready to roll

0:54:32.719 --> 0:54:35.360
<v Speaker 1>and thought out, but you'll go home and thought helped

0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:39.280
<v Speaker 1>meet out and your microwaiting and eat it because you're frugal.

0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:41.879
<v Speaker 1>But there's also a little bit of ethics mixed in there.

0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:44.719
<v Speaker 1>There's some ethics and there's also another dimension that I

0:54:44.719 --> 0:54:48.799
<v Speaker 1>tried to explain um when I was interviewed for the

0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:50.680
<v Speaker 1>documentary didn't make the cut. And I can see why

0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:52.440
<v Speaker 1>because I wasn't very clear and I probably won't be

0:54:52.440 --> 0:55:00.480
<v Speaker 1>now either. But there's this child like it's from child hood.

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:05.279
<v Speaker 1>This is where this feeling emerged. Was in childhood for me,

0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:12.280
<v Speaker 1>this giddy sense of getting something from free, to eat

0:55:12.800 --> 0:55:20.399
<v Speaker 1>from nature, and that is an abiding component of what

0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:25.239
<v Speaker 1>drives me to haunt and gather is in fish? Is

0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:29.200
<v Speaker 1>that what that giddy feeling of, like you doing it

0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:34.680
<v Speaker 1>yourself and getting uh your food from nature for free.

0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Like it's like it's like a thing that I've been

0:55:38.160 --> 0:55:40.120
<v Speaker 1>thinking about. We've been eating a lot of Morrel's from

0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:44.239
<v Speaker 1>dogs Farm that he picked. Morels are good. A right,

0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:47.919
<v Speaker 1>they're good, but they're not that good. They're not that good.

0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean they're great, but people's enthusiasm for listen, listen,

0:55:52.360 --> 0:56:02.520
<v Speaker 1>they ain't chicken wings no here. I like, Okay, I

0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:09.520
<v Speaker 1>like Morrel's, love Morrells, but peoples and people who look

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:14.839
<v Speaker 1>for and find Morrell's have an enthusiasm that exceeds the

0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:20.439
<v Speaker 1>flavor of the morrell Yeah, it's I it's like, it's

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:23.320
<v Speaker 1>not like they're like, dude, come may, I'm eating a

0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:26.120
<v Speaker 1>shipload of Morrell's, whether I got to buy them or not.

0:56:26.640 --> 0:56:30.160
<v Speaker 1>That's not true people that hunt Morrel's. If all of

0:56:30.200 --> 0:56:33.160
<v Speaker 1>a sudden there was a drought and no Morrel's came up,

0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:35.480
<v Speaker 1>It's not that they're gonna be driving around calling to

0:56:35.640 --> 0:56:39.200
<v Speaker 1>stores to find Morrel's because they have to have morels.

0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:42.479
<v Speaker 1>They morels are great because you find the sun's bitches

0:56:42.520 --> 0:56:45.479
<v Speaker 1>growing out of the dirt. Yeah, and then they're great,

0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:48.799
<v Speaker 1>and they're what I'm saying. It's like, you can't un

0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:52.920
<v Speaker 1>you can't untank, like you can't disconnect the two. I

0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:54.840
<v Speaker 1>remember when I did. I did a deep dive on

0:56:55.080 --> 0:56:58.200
<v Speaker 1>mushrooms for a number of years, three or four years,

0:56:58.320 --> 0:57:01.680
<v Speaker 1>when you were infatuating, learning a lot of different SPECIs.

0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:03.520
<v Speaker 1>You got to where you knew more about mushrooms than

0:57:03.520 --> 0:57:09.080
<v Speaker 1>anyone I knew. And I remember learning that they have

0:57:09.239 --> 0:57:13.359
<v Speaker 1>no calories, and that was very disappointing to me because

0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:16.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, being it really so this isn't like

0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:23.320
<v Speaker 1>getting a food item anymore. UM have protein in them?

0:57:23.320 --> 0:57:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh dude, it really it's interesting. They shure taste like

0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:28.760
<v Speaker 1>they what they taste like freaking meat man when you

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 1>put a little oh good yeah flower on them and

0:57:31.960 --> 0:57:33.880
<v Speaker 1>brown them in a bunch of butter. And I'm like, good,

0:57:34.520 --> 0:57:36.480
<v Speaker 1>do you guys see what I'm saying. I'm not this

0:57:36.640 --> 0:57:40.040
<v Speaker 1>in your morals? Man, Okay, well let me see this,

0:57:40.120 --> 0:57:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Doug was less than you bought aom Morrell. I have

0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:45.280
<v Speaker 1>never bought m call and I've never sold a morale either.

0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:48.320
<v Speaker 1>I've given a lot of them away. And I agree

0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:53.800
<v Speaker 1>completely what with what you're saying about the fascination with

0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:57.240
<v Speaker 1>going out there. And I mean, I was so frustrated

0:57:57.280 --> 0:57:59.600
<v Speaker 1>this spring because I'm looking and I'm looking, and you know,

0:57:59.640 --> 0:58:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm going one out almost daily because the conditions are

0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.480
<v Speaker 1>right and I've got great spots. And my wife and

0:58:05.480 --> 0:58:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I were out looking for him, and and uh we

0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.080
<v Speaker 1>we came around and we had taken a pretty good

0:58:11.160 --> 0:58:16.000
<v Speaker 1>hike and ironically found this big batch that that you saw,

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and then you got some right behind the barn, I mean,

0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:20.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, a hundred and fifty yards from the house,

0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:23.600
<v Speaker 1>and uh, I had left that tree alone, but we

0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:28.880
<v Speaker 1>came around there and it's just this fascinating sort of

0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:32.160
<v Speaker 1>magical thing to come there and see this little village

0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:40.640
<v Speaker 1>of of these little little village, you know, a little

0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:45.440
<v Speaker 1>scaring and and you sem and then you look away

0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:47.680
<v Speaker 1>for a second and you look back and okay, I

0:58:47.680 --> 0:58:50.200
<v Speaker 1>know there was one there? Where did it go? And

0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:53.520
<v Speaker 1>we we spent Trish and I spent an hour and

0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:56.240
<v Speaker 1>a half. They're picking Morrel's and just keep looking and

0:58:56.360 --> 0:58:59.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, and and Trish said, we picked a hundred

0:58:59.280 --> 0:59:03.800
<v Speaker 1>and moreles there and she said thank you for everyone

0:59:03.840 --> 0:59:07.880
<v Speaker 1>that she got the earth well in the I mean,

0:59:07.920 --> 0:59:10.560
<v Speaker 1>there's it's the magic of it. It's it is. You

0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:12.960
<v Speaker 1>can take somebody that's never seen him morell, never eating

0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:16.760
<v Speaker 1>him morell morell hunting, and they'll get that like that

0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:20.200
<v Speaker 1>about it. And with those things too, Like that that

0:59:20.240 --> 0:59:23.920
<v Speaker 1>makes an extra special is that you can't farm them, right,

0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:28.600
<v Speaker 1>something wild about them? Yeah, they're wild. It's like people

0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:31.600
<v Speaker 1>get excited about the asparagus. But you can go to

0:59:31.600 --> 0:59:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the store and buy them, but it's still toials of

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:37.120
<v Speaker 1>times cooler to find it. You can grow. They completely

0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.160
<v Speaker 1>defy cultivation. I think that I think that when you

0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 1>see Morrell, it's wild grown. I don't think you can

0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:44.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't think yeah, I don't think you can cost effectively,

0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:48.000
<v Speaker 1>But I think I know that you can buy these

0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:51.440
<v Speaker 1>little pots where you water them. And that's my understand

0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:53.160
<v Speaker 1>is no one's figured out a way to like make

0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:56.760
<v Speaker 1>money could state somewhout You just your relationship, which is

0:59:56.800 --> 1:00:00.360
<v Speaker 1>like the meat, right, and you talk about like isn't

1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:05.160
<v Speaker 1>like the meat because I hunt cabbages? Um. But then

1:00:05.560 --> 1:00:10.520
<v Speaker 1>you have some pasture land at your house and you

1:00:10.560 --> 1:00:13.440
<v Speaker 1>guys raise up you and your bodies raise up some lambs.

1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:16.720
<v Speaker 1>We did for a while, Yeah, and then you know

1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:21.680
<v Speaker 1>you'd go out and have to dispatch, say the lamb,

1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and you didn't like that, hated it. No, I know

1:00:25.520 --> 1:00:28.600
<v Speaker 1>I'd not relish that. There was like and then I was,

1:00:29.600 --> 1:00:31.240
<v Speaker 1>let me do, let me lay one more part on.

1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Then you can talk about the whole experience because you

1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:38.240
<v Speaker 1>don't like that, kind of dread it. And then but

1:00:38.280 --> 1:00:41.400
<v Speaker 1>then you really enjoy the lamb meat. M hmm. So

1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:46.240
<v Speaker 1>is that connected to hunting or is that as different

1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:49.240
<v Speaker 1>from hunting is picking asparagus? You know what I mean? Like, like,

1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:53.560
<v Speaker 1>what is that in the movie we see your place

1:00:53.640 --> 1:01:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and you're kind of a little livestock area there. Um.

1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:02.280
<v Speaker 1>So the raising the sheep. I was doing that with

1:01:02.360 --> 1:01:04.240
<v Speaker 1>some friends that they hunt a little bit but not

1:01:04.240 --> 1:01:05.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot. And they got young families and they were

1:01:06.000 --> 1:01:08.000
<v Speaker 1>using the meat and I would take a little bit

1:01:08.040 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 1>of it, but it was more to encourage them to

1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:13.800
<v Speaker 1>spend time at my house and just like something to

1:01:13.840 --> 1:01:19.040
<v Speaker 1>do with my community of people, you know, my friends. Um.

1:01:19.080 --> 1:01:22.919
<v Speaker 1>I think that when I kill an animal hunting, it's

1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:28.400
<v Speaker 1>like it's it's usually after a tremendous amount of work.

1:01:28.800 --> 1:01:34.680
<v Speaker 1>So the feeling of accomplishment kind of kind of offsets

1:01:34.760 --> 1:01:37.560
<v Speaker 1>the sadness a little bit, you know, kind of overrides

1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:40.600
<v Speaker 1>it a little bit, because there's so much work involved

1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:44.680
<v Speaker 1>in finally getting something. But when you kill domestic animals,

1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:48.120
<v Speaker 1>just the sadness without that other component to it. Does

1:01:48.160 --> 1:01:51.600
<v Speaker 1>that make any sense? I puzzle over with the because

1:01:51.600 --> 1:01:54.840
<v Speaker 1>people like, oh, you'd like to kill, but then when

1:01:54.880 --> 1:01:58.080
<v Speaker 1>you go out to like then maybe some people don't,

1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:00.960
<v Speaker 1>but anyone that I have that we're some livestock, but

1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:04.160
<v Speaker 1>I know they might really love to hunt, but never man,

1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:08.600
<v Speaker 1>anyone who's really excited to go out and shoot the pig. Right. Yeah,

1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:12.400
<v Speaker 1>I like hunting right up to the point where I

1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:16.800
<v Speaker 1>pull the trigger, and then I stopped liking it, to

1:02:16.880 --> 1:02:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the point where the animal is starting to become me

1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:28.320
<v Speaker 1>really yeah. Huh. The other that that, you know, if

1:02:28.320 --> 1:02:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you're tracking something or have to finish something off as

1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:37.840
<v Speaker 1>too nerve racking and and sad you're watching the life

1:02:37.840 --> 1:02:40.160
<v Speaker 1>go out of something. I know the sadness is really

1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:45.000
<v Speaker 1>because I've seen so many people cry but then be

1:02:45.080 --> 1:02:48.560
<v Speaker 1>really glad that they did it. But I don't. I don't,

1:02:48.760 --> 1:02:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And I know people talk about it, and I feel

1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:52.200
<v Speaker 1>like I've even paid some lip service to it. But

1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:54.360
<v Speaker 1>when I really think about I'm really honest about there's not.

1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:58.240
<v Speaker 1>The sadness is only when it goes bad, when you

1:02:58.240 --> 1:03:02.080
<v Speaker 1>make a mistake, then awful. But no to see something

1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:06.960
<v Speaker 1>go bam down on the ground, never sadness. Never, it's

1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:13.280
<v Speaker 1>the only one is ugly. Um, Doug, one of the

1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:22.640
<v Speaker 1>themes Matt was themeless, mass conversation was steamless, meaning I

1:03:22.720 --> 1:03:25.120
<v Speaker 1>asked you about all the themes, but your perspectives are

1:03:25.160 --> 1:03:28.760
<v Speaker 1>just interesting perspectives. But Doug is like part, like Doug's

1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:35.120
<v Speaker 1>role in the film as part of a theme. Okay, Um,

1:03:35.200 --> 1:03:38.080
<v Speaker 1>did you feel manipulated by the movie? Not at all?

1:03:38.320 --> 1:03:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Did you feel manipulated? No? I felt like I hope

1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:42.360
<v Speaker 1>you weren't because I was. I was kind of hoping

1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:44.560
<v Speaker 1>that that's who you were. I mean, you look, no,

1:03:44.720 --> 1:03:47.080
<v Speaker 1>let me tell you what. Let me tell the way

1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:49.360
<v Speaker 1>in which Doug seemed like Doug to me. No, it's Doug,

1:03:49.400 --> 1:03:53.760
<v Speaker 1>it's Doug. It's Doug. Absolutely. But if you were manipulated,

1:03:53.800 --> 1:04:01.760
<v Speaker 1>the manipulation occurred with what's said before you're segment, what's

1:04:01.800 --> 1:04:08.520
<v Speaker 1>said before your profile piece, and and the first sentence

1:04:08.680 --> 1:04:12.600
<v Speaker 1>that comes out of your mouth in the movie, which

1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:14.280
<v Speaker 1>was not the first sentence that came out of your

1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:16.320
<v Speaker 1>mouth when we sat down to interview. So there was

1:04:16.360 --> 1:04:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a manipulation of what you said, and there was a

1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:23.560
<v Speaker 1>manipulation of when you said it, the amount of emphasis

1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:25.880
<v Speaker 1>you might put on it, and then to have it

1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:28.280
<v Speaker 1>be the first thing out of your mouth really sets

1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that teas up a point. And it starts out with

1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the animal ethicist Doug. Segment is kicked off by the

1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:44.160
<v Speaker 1>animal ethicist and animal rights activists who says the most

1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:51.200
<v Speaker 1>egregious form of hunting, mm hmmm, I know where you yeah,

1:04:51.480 --> 1:04:57.440
<v Speaker 1>And then the next sentence you hear is Doug saying yeah,

1:04:57.760 --> 1:04:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I think you said. Yeah, I guess I'm a trophy

1:04:59.800 --> 1:05:05.680
<v Speaker 1>hunter or yeah, I do some trophy hunting. Which I'm

1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:07.040
<v Speaker 1>gonna let you go. I want to, I just want to.

1:05:07.160 --> 1:05:10.880
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted that scene a little bit. And then

1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:15.000
<v Speaker 1>the movie tells the story of a particular deer and

1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:16.840
<v Speaker 1>the way it would the way I feel that it

1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:19.919
<v Speaker 1>might have been taken by you to be slightly manipulative.

1:05:20.280 --> 1:05:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Is it takes your life story and family story and

1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:29.120
<v Speaker 1>the death of your brother, um to sort of serve

1:05:29.200 --> 1:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>this thing of to sort of make this point that

1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:34.320
<v Speaker 1>when you go into a person's house and you see

1:05:34.320 --> 1:05:40.760
<v Speaker 1>a dead deer hanging on their wall without asking them,

1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:44.240
<v Speaker 1>you will never know. You might have assumptions about what

1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:47.400
<v Speaker 1>that thing represents, and assumptions about what it stands for

1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:49.520
<v Speaker 1>and what it's supposed to mean and what it's supposed

1:05:49.520 --> 1:05:52.600
<v Speaker 1>to make you, as the looker feel, but you will

1:05:52.640 --> 1:05:55.560
<v Speaker 1>never really know when you look at something dead hanging

1:05:55.600 --> 1:06:02.000
<v Speaker 1>on someone's wall. Is kind of what even like your

1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:03.920
<v Speaker 1>story is so beautiful as a free stay thing, but

1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:08.120
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like it it's taken to service that point, like, hey,

1:06:08.200 --> 1:06:10.160
<v Speaker 1>let's yeah, let's talk about a dead deer on the wall.

1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, just the fucking deer that dog's house. Um. No,

1:06:18.920 --> 1:06:22.280
<v Speaker 1>I didn't feel manipulated, but by it at all. And

1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:25.240
<v Speaker 1>in fact, I think before we even started to roll camera,

1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you said that you had been speaking with this fellow

1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Robert Jones said his name and who I was my favorite.

1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.240
<v Speaker 1>He was my favorite person in the in the film,

1:06:37.280 --> 1:06:39.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, other than everybody in this room. But um,

1:06:39.800 --> 1:06:43.880
<v Speaker 1>it was a good save. But I mean because I

1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:48.480
<v Speaker 1>like the way he asked the questions or made the points,

1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:55.080
<v Speaker 1>and I couldn't disagree with his ideas. Um, it was

1:06:55.280 --> 1:06:59.040
<v Speaker 1>more the exploring of him that I was more interested in. Um.

1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:02.360
<v Speaker 1>And in the case of the of of that deer

1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:06.000
<v Speaker 1>you had before the cameras rolled, you said, uh, so

1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:10.880
<v Speaker 1>we were just talking to this animal ethicist and and

1:07:11.080 --> 1:07:14.680
<v Speaker 1>uh and you said so he said the most egregious

1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:19.320
<v Speaker 1>thing is trophy hunting and and and you said, well yeah,

1:07:19.440 --> 1:07:22.680
<v Speaker 1>before the cameras rolled in the bar, sitting in the bar, yeah,

1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:24.760
<v Speaker 1>And and you remember the deer hanging on the wall

1:07:24.880 --> 1:07:27.640
<v Speaker 1>full of deer, I said, well, there's a bunch of

1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:32.200
<v Speaker 1>trophies right there, like you know, what's the um And

1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:35.160
<v Speaker 1>we didn't talk about those deer at all. We talked

1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:38.480
<v Speaker 1>about a particular deer in the story behind it. And

1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:43.320
<v Speaker 1>my it's interesting because one of the things my wife

1:07:43.360 --> 1:07:45.960
<v Speaker 1>said about about the movie is that you were a

1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:48.560
<v Speaker 1>younger man when this was made, because of the time

1:07:48.600 --> 1:07:51.320
<v Speaker 1>had passed and and not only was he a younger man,

1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:53.240
<v Speaker 1>I was you know, my my thinking. She was saying,

1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:55.120
<v Speaker 1>you were a younger man. Your wife said you you

1:07:55.160 --> 1:07:57.280
<v Speaker 1>were a younger man. Yeah, she's noticed that. That That wasn't

1:07:57.320 --> 1:08:06.120
<v Speaker 1>as great feeling frisky after watching um anyway, I don't

1:08:06.160 --> 1:08:10.480
<v Speaker 1>remember exactly I watched it the second time, remember you

1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:15.680
<v Speaker 1>looking like that? I watched it the second time the

1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:18.320
<v Speaker 1>other night with my daughter in Chicago, and um, that

1:08:18.400 --> 1:08:22.360
<v Speaker 1>was a really interesting thing too. So how things have

1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:27.439
<v Speaker 1>evolved for me since? Um as we tell as as

1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:31.479
<v Speaker 1>the as you tell in the In the movie, UM

1:08:31.600 --> 1:08:34.880
<v Speaker 1>my brother, my younger, my late brother, Matthew, UM and

1:08:34.960 --> 1:08:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I had talked about deer management, and um it was

1:08:39.240 --> 1:08:41.760
<v Speaker 1>conservation based deer management, but really a part of it was,

1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:44.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're sort of we've been killing with these

1:08:44.360 --> 1:08:46.040
<v Speaker 1>little forkis, you know, the thing that we get a

1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:51.599
<v Speaker 1>basket full of and um uh and we had started

1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:53.519
<v Speaker 1>talking about deer management, things that we could do better,

1:08:54.240 --> 1:08:56.840
<v Speaker 1>and you know, habitat work and all that sort of thing.

1:08:56.880 --> 1:08:59.840
<v Speaker 1>And then and then he died tragically, and um, I

1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:06.360
<v Speaker 1>kept that that ideal alive and uh we I think

1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:09.559
<v Speaker 1>we did a good job of of of conservation, you know,

1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:13.200
<v Speaker 1>dear management, and it sort of culminated in the fact

1:09:13.200 --> 1:09:17.519
<v Speaker 1>that I got to kill it here. And uh, it

1:09:17.640 --> 1:09:22.439
<v Speaker 1>was you know, as I said in the movie, it

1:09:22.479 --> 1:09:25.640
<v Speaker 1>was sort of a remembrance of that of that whole process.

1:09:25.840 --> 1:09:29.960
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like, oh, yeah, we manipulated our landscape and

1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:33.040
<v Speaker 1>we let all these bucks go and then all these

1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:35.880
<v Speaker 1>things happened and then and and it wasn't that. It

1:09:35.920 --> 1:09:37.400
<v Speaker 1>was much more. I mean, the first thing I thought

1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:40.200
<v Speaker 1>about when I killed that here it was him and

1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:43.000
<v Speaker 1>uh and and what we had done and how close

1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:46.599
<v Speaker 1>it was to where that at all happened and uh

1:09:46.720 --> 1:09:49.280
<v Speaker 1>and so it was really the remembrance of a whole

1:09:50.360 --> 1:09:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the whole um group of things that happened in over

1:09:54.800 --> 1:10:00.839
<v Speaker 1>a period of time. And and then it wasn't that important.

1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean that deers is real important symbolically. But what

1:10:05.040 --> 1:10:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I've learned since is that uh, or acted on since,

1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:14.959
<v Speaker 1>is that the conservation and was way more important. Um

1:10:15.600 --> 1:10:18.960
<v Speaker 1>any of those restrictions or attitudes that we had about

1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:21.240
<v Speaker 1>not you know, shooting younger deer. That's all gone now

1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:25.120
<v Speaker 1>because the thing that's more important now is conserving to me,

1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:28.280
<v Speaker 1>conserving the resource and doing the right thing for the species.

1:10:28.320 --> 1:10:31.320
<v Speaker 1>And um, far down that road we want to go.

1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:34.040
<v Speaker 1>But because of where our farm is located, that's you know,

1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:35.840
<v Speaker 1>it's a part of it. And so to me it

1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:37.639
<v Speaker 1>was just sort of people you're talking about because they're

1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:39.760
<v Speaker 1>gonna confused if now, Oh yeah, I'm sorry, but but

1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:41.479
<v Speaker 1>it brings up, it brings up the NFC, the point

1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:44.600
<v Speaker 1>where you and I find it's all the time, like

1:10:44.680 --> 1:10:46.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, you always leaving these these sort of time

1:10:46.600 --> 1:10:49.120
<v Speaker 1>stamps by things you say. But then earlier I mentioned

1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:51.640
<v Speaker 1>to Matt how people evolve over time, and and your

1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:54.439
<v Speaker 1>understanding of yourself and understanding of things around you change,

1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:57.920
<v Speaker 1>and you try to Um, you know, I have these

1:10:57.920 --> 1:11:02.360
<v Speaker 1>certain like things I feel consistently throughout life, and I

1:11:02.439 --> 1:11:05.040
<v Speaker 1>explained them in a way, and then I started to

1:11:05.080 --> 1:11:07.519
<v Speaker 1>realize that that I know that the thing is there,

1:11:08.360 --> 1:11:12.960
<v Speaker 1>like let's say there's some like undeniable that there's some

1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:18.679
<v Speaker 1>undeniable truth, Okay, they can't be debated, that it's there,

1:11:18.680 --> 1:11:23.559
<v Speaker 1>Like there's an objective reality that's there. And and I

1:11:23.600 --> 1:11:26.519
<v Speaker 1>feel that that that objective reality stays constant through life.

1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And I'll look at that objective reality and I'll say

1:11:29.080 --> 1:11:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to people, um, you know why that's that way, right,

1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:37.360
<v Speaker 1>it's that way because and I'll explain why it's that way.

1:11:37.960 --> 1:11:40.880
<v Speaker 1>And then ten years ago by the objective reality is

1:11:40.920 --> 1:11:46.519
<v Speaker 1>still there and I'll say, you know why I think

1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:51.320
<v Speaker 1>it's that way, and it will be different, and some

1:11:51.360 --> 1:11:56.080
<v Speaker 1>people will be like, well, you used to think, and

1:11:56.280 --> 1:11:58.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm just like yeah, and I came up with a

1:11:58.240 --> 1:11:59.839
<v Speaker 1>long to ago me like I used to ship my diapers.

1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:04.240
<v Speaker 1>I used to ship my diapers. You usually say it

1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:08.160
<v Speaker 1>like this, I used to shoot ship my diapers, but

1:12:08.320 --> 1:12:14.120
<v Speaker 1>things change. It became when comfortable. No, that's not it.

1:12:14.400 --> 1:12:16.880
<v Speaker 1>That's not it. The devil's in the details with this.

1:12:17.040 --> 1:12:19.880
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, I used to shoot ship my diapers too,

1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:22.519
<v Speaker 1>but things change, that's how you say. And you may

1:12:22.520 --> 1:12:31.320
<v Speaker 1>well still again reality. So point being, there's a saying,

1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.600
<v Speaker 1>what's that saying? It's uh, once a man, twice a boy, Yeah,

1:12:35.680 --> 1:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>that's good. Or what walks on um for legs in

1:12:40.120 --> 1:12:44.240
<v Speaker 1>the morning, two legs in the afternoon, and three legs.

1:12:45.600 --> 1:12:49.720
<v Speaker 1>That's what you had to say. That's what uh was

1:12:49.760 --> 1:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>the Oedipus. I think you're right when he like Oedipus,

1:12:56.320 --> 1:12:59.280
<v Speaker 1>his deal was we talked about the support Oedipus, didn't

1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:01.720
<v Speaker 1>we up. This deal was he was raised not by

1:13:01.760 --> 1:13:03.479
<v Speaker 1>his actual parents, but he didn't know that they were

1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:06.240
<v Speaker 1>in his parents. And he goes to a soothsayer. The

1:13:06.280 --> 1:13:08.880
<v Speaker 1>soothsayer says the Oedipus, oh, you know what's gonna happen

1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:11.200
<v Speaker 1>to you. You'll kill your dad and marry your ma.

1:13:12.240 --> 1:13:14.040
<v Speaker 1>But he doesn't know that. He thinks he lives with

1:13:14.080 --> 1:13:18.800
<v Speaker 1>his parents, so he splits. He splits to to to

1:13:18.800 --> 1:13:23.600
<v Speaker 1>to get away from his thing, and then winds up

1:13:23.640 --> 1:13:26.080
<v Speaker 1>in some crazy town. And to get into the town,

1:13:26.280 --> 1:13:28.479
<v Speaker 1>you gotta answer a riddle. And he answers that riddle,

1:13:28.479 --> 1:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>and the guy that gave him the riddle dies and

1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:32.880
<v Speaker 1>he kills him, and he goes into town, gets in

1:13:32.880 --> 1:13:35.320
<v Speaker 1>a fight with the guy, kills him, marries the gal

1:13:36.400 --> 1:13:41.679
<v Speaker 1>is dad. Ma Um, that's where the riddle came from. Well,

1:13:41.720 --> 1:13:43.360
<v Speaker 1>but what I was trying to get at was this,

1:13:44.040 --> 1:13:45.479
<v Speaker 1>that's the riddle that he had to solve, not what

1:13:45.520 --> 1:13:51.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to get your time stamp and in this movie,

1:13:51.120 --> 1:13:53.320
<v Speaker 1>moviesn't not in the digital as I'll live forever in

1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:56.680
<v Speaker 1>some form or another. Um, your time stamp is a

1:13:56.720 --> 1:14:00.360
<v Speaker 1>guy that's like interested in growing big, huge giant bucks

1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:02.760
<v Speaker 1>because in your mind, like big huge giant box are

1:14:02.800 --> 1:14:06.360
<v Speaker 1>emblematic of like a healthy deer population. And then chronic wasting.

1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:09.839
<v Speaker 1>And then the movie ends and you get really concerned

1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:12.720
<v Speaker 1>about chronic wasting disease. And it emerges that that like

1:14:12.880 --> 1:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>a leading theory on the spread of chronic wasting diseases,

1:14:15.439 --> 1:14:18.240
<v Speaker 1>the deer most likely to go all over to damn

1:14:18.240 --> 1:14:23.639
<v Speaker 1>place um and that's young Bocks. And then you start

1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:27.240
<v Speaker 1>the you kind of have an attitude was trying to

1:14:27.320 --> 1:14:30.040
<v Speaker 1>lower deer numbers in your area because that's the game

1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>agency objective too, is just the drive deer numbers down, down,

1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:37.600
<v Speaker 1>down to slow the spread of chronic wasting disease. So

1:14:37.720 --> 1:14:41.479
<v Speaker 1>had we made a movie about you, uh five years

1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>two years after we did right completely except the thing

1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>so there you are saying stuff that you don't even

1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:57.960
<v Speaker 1>believe anymore. Not true. He believe those things that the

1:14:58.000 --> 1:15:03.800
<v Speaker 1>circumstances were still the same. But the what was the

1:15:04.479 --> 1:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>no appreciate this now the thing that's consistent throughout it,

1:15:17.240 --> 1:15:19.280
<v Speaker 1>and you and I've had this conversation before, and we've

1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>talked about it on the show, and we're talked about

1:15:21.120 --> 1:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>on podcasts we've had you know, is that it's a

1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:29.080
<v Speaker 1>part it's the conservation of of the area and a

1:15:29.120 --> 1:15:32.720
<v Speaker 1>part of what we were doing in growing you know,

1:15:32.800 --> 1:15:34.519
<v Speaker 1>bigger and older buckses that we were not going to

1:15:34.640 --> 1:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>population called big huge giant bucks doug. Uh, I really

1:15:39.920 --> 1:15:45.479
<v Speaker 1>don't like that expression, but um, so, you know, more

1:15:45.560 --> 1:15:49.160
<v Speaker 1>mature whatever were It was a part of, oh, we've

1:15:49.200 --> 1:15:52.920
<v Speaker 1>got a population problem, and that was expressing itself in

1:15:52.960 --> 1:15:57.439
<v Speaker 1>our in our woods. Um and and you know, we're

1:15:58.280 --> 1:16:01.000
<v Speaker 1>there was overbrows and we're trying to regenerate oaks and

1:16:01.040 --> 1:16:03.880
<v Speaker 1>so um and we're killing a bunch of deer, but

1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:06.760
<v Speaker 1>we happen to be targeting Uh does more. And then

1:16:06.760 --> 1:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm learning why you can't really stockpile box. It's not

1:16:09.920 --> 1:16:11.600
<v Speaker 1>like you can just turn the whole farm into a

1:16:11.640 --> 1:16:18.760
<v Speaker 1>whole bunch of bucks. And because you know, and then

1:16:18.800 --> 1:16:20.439
<v Speaker 1>it's you know, and then the other thing is interesting

1:16:20.479 --> 1:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>about big giant bucks is once there starts to be

1:16:23.200 --> 1:16:24.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of them around, it's not that unusual. It's

1:16:24.920 --> 1:16:29.280
<v Speaker 1>not that special anymore. Deer are special to me, um,

1:16:29.320 --> 1:16:31.559
<v Speaker 1>and the fascination of seeing them in the woods. But anyway,

1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>so it was conservation based and that has been the

1:16:34.400 --> 1:16:37.679
<v Speaker 1>overriding theme through through my lifetime. That's what I meant

1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:40.000
<v Speaker 1>by the objective reality. That's what's the phrase that I

1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:43.519
<v Speaker 1>was looking for, um that I couldn't remember. Um, the

1:16:43.560 --> 1:16:47.480
<v Speaker 1>objective reality fixed the fixed thing, the fixed things conservation.

1:16:47.560 --> 1:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>And so I don't think that I've been accused um.

1:16:52.840 --> 1:16:55.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, well, I guess in some ways negatively about yeah,

1:16:55.920 --> 1:16:58.559
<v Speaker 1>well you used to be the guy who's all about right.

1:16:58.600 --> 1:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I didn't think you killed that was I thought you

1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:03.040
<v Speaker 1>were a big buck hunter. And you know, I've been

1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:06.439
<v Speaker 1>accute said and of that in in in bars and

1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:09.920
<v Speaker 1>things like that, and UM my responses, well't no, it's

1:17:09.960 --> 1:17:12.720
<v Speaker 1>just always been the same ideas that we're trying to

1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:17.280
<v Speaker 1>do what's best. Um. And one of the by products

1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:22.719
<v Speaker 1>of that was bigger bucks and older box and U uh.

1:17:22.760 --> 1:17:24.479
<v Speaker 1>And so that was one of the things that happened

1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:26.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. And I felt like, not only was the

1:17:27.400 --> 1:17:30.759
<v Speaker 1>was the standard as we came to we never named

1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:33.880
<v Speaker 1>you know how white tail Guy's named dear when they

1:17:33.880 --> 1:17:35.400
<v Speaker 1>see him on the camera and stuff. When you don't

1:17:35.439 --> 1:17:41.479
<v Speaker 1>name them till they're dead. Well and A and a

1:17:41.520 --> 1:17:44.400
<v Speaker 1>friend of ours had said when he saw it, he goes, well,

1:17:44.439 --> 1:17:46.439
<v Speaker 1>that is the standard by which all dear in the

1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>future will be judged. And so you know that was

1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:55.439
<v Speaker 1>how that happened. And UM and and so that that's

1:17:55.439 --> 1:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>the part that made sense to me. And and now

1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:03.200
<v Speaker 1>that UM, the resource because of chronic wasting disease has

1:18:03.240 --> 1:18:07.080
<v Speaker 1>been uh, it's threatened. I mean, we have high prevalence

1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:11.160
<v Speaker 1>in our area. UM, I can't I have trouble with

1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:14.920
<v Speaker 1>the visualization now of seeing a hundred deer in the

1:18:15.040 --> 1:18:19.920
<v Speaker 1>field and and uh, you know, realizing that up to

1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:25.120
<v Speaker 1>that hundred deer are carrying a fatal disease that there

1:18:25.280 --> 1:18:29.000
<v Speaker 1>is are also spreading around. UM, not in our area yet,

1:18:29.000 --> 1:18:30.400
<v Speaker 1>but south of us. So I'm trying to do what

1:18:30.439 --> 1:18:35.640
<v Speaker 1>I can for it. So the conservation ethic of it

1:18:35.880 --> 1:18:40.360
<v Speaker 1>is that overriding theme, or that that continuum of it.

1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:45.960
<v Speaker 1>And and the fascination of of deer in the woods

1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:49.080
<v Speaker 1>and the time in the woods is also the the

1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:51.240
<v Speaker 1>part of it that's been real consistent for me. But

1:18:52.120 --> 1:18:56.360
<v Speaker 1>UM Jones brought up a lot of the questions that

1:18:56.640 --> 1:18:59.640
<v Speaker 1>UM and I never was offended by anything that the

1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:03.400
<v Speaker 1>guys that um or and I thought it was a

1:19:03.400 --> 1:19:09.120
<v Speaker 1>fascinating guy because he talked about moral responsibility and UH

1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:13.080
<v Speaker 1>and I and I feel that responsibility. UM. And I

1:19:13.120 --> 1:19:15.680
<v Speaker 1>think that UM all the folks that I like to

1:19:15.720 --> 1:19:17.880
<v Speaker 1>hang out with anyway and hunt with and stuff, that

1:19:17.920 --> 1:19:21.240
<v Speaker 1>they feel that responsibility for it too. UM, just like

1:19:21.280 --> 1:19:24.599
<v Speaker 1>I feel a responsibility. You know, you're talking about, UM,

1:19:24.640 --> 1:19:26.559
<v Speaker 1>the livestock that you raise, you know, as you know,

1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I raised cattle, and UM, there's I have a have

1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:34.880
<v Speaker 1>mixed feelings about that, but at the end of the day, UM,

1:19:34.920 --> 1:19:38.120
<v Speaker 1>there's a I feel a responsibility. I would never grow

1:19:38.240 --> 1:19:42.599
<v Speaker 1>cattle in a way that you know that they are

1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:45.360
<v Speaker 1>done on a large scale. I just it's just not

1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:47.200
<v Speaker 1>something that I would do. And I'm in a position

1:19:47.200 --> 1:19:49.479
<v Speaker 1>where I don't have to because you just like large

1:19:49.479 --> 1:19:51.439
<v Speaker 1>scale because it's large scale. You're just like what you

1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:53.800
<v Speaker 1>assume comes with large scale or what you know that

1:19:53.880 --> 1:19:56.120
<v Speaker 1>what you know to come with large scale, what I

1:19:56.160 --> 1:19:58.880
<v Speaker 1>know to come if you have if you have an experience,

1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:01.679
<v Speaker 1>if you create an experience, it's that's the right word.

1:20:01.800 --> 1:20:05.000
<v Speaker 1>You create a reality or an experience for your cows.

1:20:05.840 --> 1:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>If you can what's the difference if you're doing it

1:20:08.040 --> 1:20:11.000
<v Speaker 1>for that experience for twenty year, that experience for a thousand,

1:20:12.840 --> 1:20:15.880
<v Speaker 1>if it's how they're raised. You know, one of the

1:20:15.920 --> 1:20:19.240
<v Speaker 1>things that you brought up was that like the desire

1:20:19.280 --> 1:20:22.120
<v Speaker 1>of people now to know that their meat is humanely raised,

1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:24.880
<v Speaker 1>that their animals like you see what I'm saying, right,

1:20:25.720 --> 1:20:28.679
<v Speaker 1>it's not that it's large It's not that the fact

1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:32.600
<v Speaker 1>that it's large scale. It's like what efficiencies come with

1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:36.479
<v Speaker 1>large scale that you don't like or or there's I

1:20:36.479 --> 1:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>don't want to but there's probably an environmental component exactly.

1:20:40.080 --> 1:20:41.800
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly right, Like if you have a lot, if

1:20:41.800 --> 1:20:44.200
<v Speaker 1>you're doing a thousand and then you got a lot

1:20:44.240 --> 1:20:49.880
<v Speaker 1>of manure you're dealing with and for a finite fine

1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:55.840
<v Speaker 1>feeding operations or environmentally problematic to say the least. And

1:20:55.880 --> 1:20:57.479
<v Speaker 1>when I was a kid, when you drive around our

1:20:57.520 --> 1:20:59.880
<v Speaker 1>area was and you guys have been there a farm here,

1:21:00.000 --> 1:21:02.360
<v Speaker 1>farm there, farm there, and and and sort of everything

1:21:02.360 --> 1:21:08.479
<v Speaker 1>that was happening. Yeah, green hills, red barn silos, black

1:21:08.520 --> 1:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>and white cows and uh you know, the manure that

1:21:12.120 --> 1:21:15.080
<v Speaker 1>was being uh produced on that farmer those cattle was

1:21:15.120 --> 1:21:16.800
<v Speaker 1>pretty much going back in the field, and and there

1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:18.559
<v Speaker 1>were times that you you know, you kind of wish

1:21:18.600 --> 1:21:20.559
<v Speaker 1>you had more because it was you know, it was

1:21:20.600 --> 1:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>it was it was. It wasn't a byproduct or a

1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:28.240
<v Speaker 1>waste product that you're getting rid of. Um. So there's that. Uh,

1:21:28.280 --> 1:21:34.240
<v Speaker 1>there's the living on concrete, you know, a cow, a steer, whatever,

1:21:34.640 --> 1:21:38.840
<v Speaker 1>living its life out in an environment like that. For me,

1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:41.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not going to judge other people that

1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:42.760
<v Speaker 1>are doing it, but for me, I don't think that's

1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:47.960
<v Speaker 1>um morallily responsible. I raised grass fed beef. I'm able

1:21:48.000 --> 1:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to do it in a way that uh um. I

1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:53.080
<v Speaker 1>think about all the time, like, am I doing this right?

1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Am I treating them? Well? Is it? Uh? Um? Uh,

1:21:58.000 --> 1:22:02.280
<v Speaker 1>it's just you know, environmentally sense at um. And then

1:22:02.439 --> 1:22:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Robert Jones would say, you know that's all great, but

1:22:04.880 --> 1:22:06.720
<v Speaker 1>in the end, you kill it. Yeah, he'd say it,

1:22:06.800 --> 1:22:08.400
<v Speaker 1>let's take it one step further and now do it

1:22:08.400 --> 1:22:14.519
<v Speaker 1>at all. Let's finish let's finish it up. Well. Um,

1:22:14.560 --> 1:22:16.479
<v Speaker 1>but you're sort of saying like no, you're sort of saying,

1:22:16.600 --> 1:22:19.720
<v Speaker 1>I have to do it. This is the best I

1:22:19.760 --> 1:22:22.040
<v Speaker 1>can do. He would challenge the idea that you have

1:22:22.080 --> 1:22:27.719
<v Speaker 1>to do it um, yes, yes, he sure would. Um,

1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:31.120
<v Speaker 1>but I think that that idea when he talked about

1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:33.320
<v Speaker 1>instinct for instance, well, you know, we don't act on

1:22:33.360 --> 1:22:35.280
<v Speaker 1>all of our instincts, but we can act on our

1:22:35.360 --> 1:22:39.000
<v Speaker 1>instincts and a morally morally responsive. Interesting point, he said,

1:22:39.080 --> 1:22:43.840
<v Speaker 1>when I smell bacon, I think, man, that bacon. It

1:22:43.960 --> 1:22:48.759
<v Speaker 1>was really interesting to hear him say that. Yeah. Yeah, Um,

1:22:48.800 --> 1:22:51.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean I don't take any of it lately. You know,

1:22:51.600 --> 1:22:53.280
<v Speaker 1>you were asking me about this last night or the

1:22:53.360 --> 1:22:57.439
<v Speaker 1>day before or something, and um, it gets harder for me. Uh.

1:22:57.520 --> 1:22:59.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, I loaded up a bunch of six months

1:22:59.800 --> 1:23:03.760
<v Speaker 1>old calves, uh six months old steers and heifers last

1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:05.439
<v Speaker 1>year and sent them down the road and listen to

1:23:05.479 --> 1:23:08.400
<v Speaker 1>their mother's beller and they you know. I mean it

1:23:08.439 --> 1:23:10.080
<v Speaker 1>was a it was a decision that I had to

1:23:10.120 --> 1:23:14.760
<v Speaker 1>make because of the cattle and all of that. Um,

1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:18.679
<v Speaker 1>and it was I'm literally changing how I'm raising cattle

1:23:18.680 --> 1:23:21.200
<v Speaker 1>because I don't want to do that again. I mean,

1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:24.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to raise them differently, um, and not

1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.360
<v Speaker 1>have big groups of cattle like that. I'm gonna take

1:23:27.400 --> 1:23:30.519
<v Speaker 1>them through their lives so that in when they do um,

1:23:30.680 --> 1:23:32.799
<v Speaker 1>go to slaughter and I really want to move towards

1:23:33.200 --> 1:23:35.519
<v Speaker 1>um being able to be a USD. And they have

1:23:35.600 --> 1:23:40.719
<v Speaker 1>a U s D inspected mobile, butcher come to back

1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:43.280
<v Speaker 1>into the barn, walk them on there there and and

1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:46.439
<v Speaker 1>they do all the work right there. Um because the

1:23:46.479 --> 1:23:49.439
<v Speaker 1>inspection is important to me because I sell the beef.

1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:53.559
<v Speaker 1>But rather than even putting them on that truck to

1:23:53.680 --> 1:23:56.639
<v Speaker 1>go to the locker where they then settled down, spend

1:23:56.680 --> 1:23:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the night, and the next morning they die. That's how

1:23:58.840 --> 1:24:02.479
<v Speaker 1>we do it now, um. But I can tell you this,

1:24:02.560 --> 1:24:04.880
<v Speaker 1>they have a great life up to that point, just

1:24:04.960 --> 1:24:09.519
<v Speaker 1>like the deerer on our farm do. UM. And I

1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:13.120
<v Speaker 1>and I and I try to balance that with you know,

1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:17.040
<v Speaker 1>with that that's that responsibility that I feel. And I

1:24:17.120 --> 1:24:20.840
<v Speaker 1>think that um that as you said, I think that's

1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:25.840
<v Speaker 1>the best I can do. Quick story for you, little digression.

1:24:26.600 --> 1:24:28.479
<v Speaker 1>I was at my friend on his house one time.

1:24:28.800 --> 1:24:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Her dad was a vet but also a rancher, and

1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:34.720
<v Speaker 1>she had a bunch of friends over, including some vegetarians

1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:36.720
<v Speaker 1>are over. And they get there and they got this

1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:39.880
<v Speaker 1>little they got this little crawl right off their house

1:24:40.800 --> 1:24:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and it's all the lambs are in the craw And

1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:47.800
<v Speaker 1>I said, what's going on with the lambs, you know,

1:24:48.600 --> 1:24:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and she makes like a throat cutting gesture to me,

1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:56.400
<v Speaker 1>like this is a sensitive subject considering the people she

1:24:56.439 --> 1:25:01.519
<v Speaker 1>has over And while we're there hanging out and living him,

1:25:01.560 --> 1:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>a truck backs in and the guy's custom plate is

1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:10.960
<v Speaker 1>one shot j J. She looks out the wind and

1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:16.679
<v Speaker 1>she's like, oh, and JJ got out of his Tony

1:25:16.720 --> 1:25:21.160
<v Speaker 1>two and set to work. What did they think of that?

1:25:21.520 --> 1:25:24.600
<v Speaker 1>No one really liked it, but they he set to

1:25:24.640 --> 1:25:28.240
<v Speaker 1>work right then and there. Well, I no one went

1:25:28.280 --> 1:25:30.599
<v Speaker 1>out to view, but it was just like, you know, yeah,

1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:34.720
<v Speaker 1>I was like, the guy one shot JJ's here. Yeah,

1:25:35.640 --> 1:25:37.439
<v Speaker 1>and he had the whole he had his truck, but

1:25:37.479 --> 1:25:40.599
<v Speaker 1>then he also had his whole mobile. Anyhow. Yeah, I've

1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:42.719
<v Speaker 1>been real matter of fact about it in the past

1:25:42.800 --> 1:25:44.880
<v Speaker 1>because I grew up with it, you know, with the

1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:48.040
<v Speaker 1>slaughtering of animals and and and hunting and all of that.

1:25:48.160 --> 1:25:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that's key, and I think that that that's

1:25:51.040 --> 1:25:55.040
<v Speaker 1>like what makes you realize that it's just it's kind

1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:57.639
<v Speaker 1>of like there's a lot of things, a lot of sense,

1:25:57.720 --> 1:25:59.720
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of tough issues that if

1:25:59.760 --> 1:26:04.120
<v Speaker 1>you were raising a range of environments, you'd come out

1:26:04.840 --> 1:26:08.960
<v Speaker 1>thinking the same thing, like, we'd all agree that no

1:26:09.000 --> 1:26:11.519
<v Speaker 1>matter what kind of householder were raised in, that violent

1:26:11.560 --> 1:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>crime is bad. That you know, beating somebody up as bad.

1:26:15.560 --> 1:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>There are people who question, well, yeah, but I mean

1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:21.080
<v Speaker 1>depending on how they are raised often or their level

1:26:21.080 --> 1:26:29.679
<v Speaker 1>of sociopath but people would agree that perpetrating violence against

1:26:29.680 --> 1:26:36.400
<v Speaker 1>somebody's wrong. But with hunting um or killing animals, whether

1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:40.519
<v Speaker 1>you were great raised in like a vegetarian household or

1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:46.880
<v Speaker 1>hunting how farming household has a huge bearing. Yeah, what

1:26:47.040 --> 1:26:50.840
<v Speaker 1>you end up thinking as an adult. Yeah, I know

1:26:50.920 --> 1:26:53.559
<v Speaker 1>that because I've had, I continue to have so much

1:26:53.600 --> 1:26:55.879
<v Speaker 1>exposure to people who had such a very different upbringing

1:26:56.080 --> 1:26:58.400
<v Speaker 1>in the things that I think of as just a

1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:03.880
<v Speaker 1>very matter of fact or sometimes shock to people. M Yeah,

1:27:04.280 --> 1:27:08.360
<v Speaker 1>like look at uh, look at even people that have

1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:12.599
<v Speaker 1>been exposed a lot to hunting and fishing, like my

1:27:12.600 --> 1:27:16.400
<v Speaker 1>my wife. You know, she's been exposed to hunting and

1:27:16.439 --> 1:27:19.040
<v Speaker 1>fishing on an offer whole life, and ranching and ranching.

1:27:19.080 --> 1:27:21.160
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't hunting fish, but she's been exposed to it.

1:27:22.240 --> 1:27:27.559
<v Speaker 1>She thinks it's deplorable that we don't kill pan fish.

1:27:27.720 --> 1:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I've talked about this on this here programming a lot. Yeah,

1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:33.880
<v Speaker 1>and Uh, to me, that is just I was told

1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:36.120
<v Speaker 1>when I was a little kid that they don't feel stuff.

1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Hold on expand on that, because not just that we

1:27:39.040 --> 1:27:40.880
<v Speaker 1>don't kill pans. Okay, so we catch the fish and

1:27:40.920 --> 1:27:43.880
<v Speaker 1>we don't dispose. You got a catfish and throwing the

1:27:43.880 --> 1:27:46.080
<v Speaker 1>bottom of the boat. She acts like you're driving around

1:27:46.160 --> 1:27:48.160
<v Speaker 1>with a deer flopping around in the back of your truck,

1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:51.639
<v Speaker 1>or you'd have a rabbit in your game pouch kicking

1:27:51.640 --> 1:27:54.640
<v Speaker 1>around back there. And and when that's exactly how and

1:27:54.640 --> 1:27:57.599
<v Speaker 1>when I try to counter her, my arguments are extremely thin,

1:27:58.680 --> 1:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>like I don't know what that thing is feeling. You

1:28:03.360 --> 1:28:08.120
<v Speaker 1>know that narrative which I love, it's like this sort

1:28:08.160 --> 1:28:11.080
<v Speaker 1>of thing and I'm not for Pat Durkins explored that

1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:19.600
<v Speaker 1>narrative of of your family farm and this like and

1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>b n y that we get into in the movie

1:28:22.360 --> 1:28:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Not Nice Buck Next Year. This sort of ethos or

1:28:24.920 --> 1:28:28.840
<v Speaker 1>this conservation ethic that perhaps is the elastic in some way.

1:28:28.960 --> 1:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>Uh that it's like a really um it's it's really

1:28:33.280 --> 1:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>like compelling, beautiful and very tidy story. It's like this

1:28:38.360 --> 1:28:41.479
<v Speaker 1>nice tidy package when you want to pluck it out

1:28:42.160 --> 1:28:44.320
<v Speaker 1>and so and to have it be in a movie

1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:47.120
<v Speaker 1>that you like, pluck this little package out and book

1:28:47.240 --> 1:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>ended with other people's sentiments, it has it wants up

1:28:52.920 --> 1:28:56.360
<v Speaker 1>feeling like conclusive, you know, but then it ends and

1:28:56.520 --> 1:29:01.360
<v Speaker 1>ship goes on and let the story continues, just like

1:29:01.520 --> 1:29:03.479
<v Speaker 1>the story has continue to that farm for a hundred

1:29:03.520 --> 1:29:05.680
<v Speaker 1>and fifteen years. And one of the interesting things to

1:29:05.720 --> 1:29:08.840
<v Speaker 1>me is how in the ark of my lifetime we

1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:14.080
<v Speaker 1>went from a few deer too more dear too now

1:29:14.120 --> 1:29:18.479
<v Speaker 1>to too many deer and disease. And at the same time,

1:29:20.640 --> 1:29:23.200
<v Speaker 1>that's how if you're just isolating the deer and at

1:29:23.200 --> 1:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the same time we have these other conservation issues on

1:29:25.960 --> 1:29:28.720
<v Speaker 1>our on our property, in in our in the whole

1:29:28.800 --> 1:29:32.280
<v Speaker 1>driftless area, um, that are all sort of interwined together.

1:29:33.080 --> 1:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>And so I see them as as a group of

1:29:36.160 --> 1:29:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of issues that are interwined together as opposed to you know,

1:29:42.520 --> 1:29:47.799
<v Speaker 1>people who are most interested in or in some cases

1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:54.280
<v Speaker 1>solely interested in deer and dear only. UM. And I

1:29:54.280 --> 1:29:57.760
<v Speaker 1>don't I don't know exactly how to um wrap that

1:29:57.800 --> 1:30:02.479
<v Speaker 1>all up real tidy, but uh, I think that with

1:30:02.600 --> 1:30:05.479
<v Speaker 1>the kinds of themes that we're talking about, the bigger

1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:08.880
<v Speaker 1>ball of all of these things together is is you

1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:12.080
<v Speaker 1>know where I rest, my rest, my case and all

1:30:12.120 --> 1:30:14.639
<v Speaker 1>of this that I'm not just caring for one thing

1:30:14.720 --> 1:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>or trying to do one thing. I'm trying to do

1:30:17.560 --> 1:30:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of folks that I know um doing it.

1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>And really the people that I personally respect the most

1:30:23.200 --> 1:30:25.760
<v Speaker 1>are trying to do a u something that's much more

1:30:27.000 --> 1:30:31.680
<v Speaker 1>a wider conservation based idea. Yeah, that's that's Leopold, the

1:30:31.680 --> 1:30:36.200
<v Speaker 1>whole community. Yeah. Yeah, well he's from the soil all

1:30:36.240 --> 1:30:38.439
<v Speaker 1>the way up to this guy. What was his Uh

1:30:38.479 --> 1:30:46.519
<v Speaker 1>he didn't coin biome what did he coin? He he

1:30:46.560 --> 1:30:53.600
<v Speaker 1>would have known him for. Yeah, but the but the

1:30:53.720 --> 1:30:56.800
<v Speaker 1>land ethic and that that I mean. And Leopold is

1:30:56.880 --> 1:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>my he's my hero. Um. He used to take out

1:31:02.920 --> 1:31:05.439
<v Speaker 1>his recurve and take seventy yard shots a deer. Just

1:31:05.439 --> 1:31:08.759
<v Speaker 1>see if you get hit him. Yeah, there's a book

1:31:08.800 --> 1:31:12.200
<v Speaker 1>I can't there's a later book of his words, just

1:31:12.240 --> 1:31:14.639
<v Speaker 1>see if you hit him. Yeah, there's a later book

1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:17.120
<v Speaker 1>of his where he's hunting in New Mexico with some

1:31:17.160 --> 1:31:21.559
<v Speaker 1>friend of his and there's a lot of questionable shots.

1:31:22.560 --> 1:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>If now, if you just hunting now, you think he

1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:30.479
<v Speaker 1>was a perfect perfect segue. If we wouldn't want to

1:31:30.560 --> 1:31:33.680
<v Speaker 1>jump into the ethics thing. Oh I thought we were

1:31:33.720 --> 1:31:38.479
<v Speaker 1>talking about ethics. Oh well, we talked about this idea

1:31:38.640 --> 1:31:40.600
<v Speaker 1>of one of the things we talked about one of

1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:43.120
<v Speaker 1>the themes. Rattle off a handful of themes and I'll

1:31:43.120 --> 1:31:44.320
<v Speaker 1>touch on this quick, but I want to get I

1:31:44.360 --> 1:31:50.080
<v Speaker 1>want to get to Randall too. Um, the patrilineal passage

1:31:50.120 --> 1:31:53.120
<v Speaker 1>of hunting. So we had, Yeah, Yanni had this idea

1:31:53.280 --> 1:31:56.479
<v Speaker 1>and we just, you know, conversations like movies going their

1:31:56.520 --> 1:32:01.960
<v Speaker 1>own direction. Um untied that of bringing up a bunch

1:32:02.000 --> 1:32:04.360
<v Speaker 1>of the themes that we explore in the movie, and

1:32:04.400 --> 1:32:06.160
<v Speaker 1>we're just you's gonna throw them out and I'm gonna

1:32:06.160 --> 1:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>give a handful of snap shots and then we're gonna

1:32:08.360 --> 1:32:12.840
<v Speaker 1>move into talking to talking to Randall. But yeah, so

1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:18.479
<v Speaker 1>we explore like patrilinnial descent being that's how most like

1:32:19.200 --> 1:32:21.040
<v Speaker 1>just I'm not talking about I'm not talking about the

1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:22.360
<v Speaker 1>way things should be. I'm just something about the way

1:32:22.400 --> 1:32:25.600
<v Speaker 1>they are. The people to buy a hunting license in

1:32:25.640 --> 1:32:29.280
<v Speaker 1>this country are men, and most of those pick it

1:32:29.360 --> 1:32:32.040
<v Speaker 1>up from their dad. We talked about that, and then

1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:36.719
<v Speaker 1>we talk about cases that aren't that, and and and

1:32:36.720 --> 1:32:39.479
<v Speaker 1>and it's sort of this chorus of characters talking about

1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:41.519
<v Speaker 1>what it like, what it was that pushed him in

1:32:41.520 --> 1:32:44.400
<v Speaker 1>this direction. And I oftentimes find that the ones that

1:32:44.439 --> 1:32:46.200
<v Speaker 1>are most interesting are the ones that aren't just the

1:32:46.240 --> 1:32:49.040
<v Speaker 1>same old, same old, which is like, un is your

1:32:49.080 --> 1:32:52.120
<v Speaker 1>dad hunted, you hung as your dad hunted, young as

1:32:52.120 --> 1:32:55.479
<v Speaker 1>your dad hunted, You hung as your dad hunted Randall, No,

1:32:55.760 --> 1:32:59.760
<v Speaker 1>my dad didn't hunt. There you go. We're um, we're

1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:02.479
<v Speaker 1>still justically skewed right now. There should be nine of

1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:07.400
<v Speaker 1>us in one of you. No, No, that's not true.

1:33:07.439 --> 1:33:10.040
<v Speaker 1>That's not no, that's not that. I'm mixing that up

1:33:10.040 --> 1:33:11.640
<v Speaker 1>with the I'm mixing that up with the with the

1:33:11.680 --> 1:33:13.559
<v Speaker 1>with the gender thing, red alof not one real quick

1:33:13.600 --> 1:33:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Johnny H Hunters pr problem. Yeah. The way in the

1:33:21.680 --> 1:33:25.240
<v Speaker 1>movie we get into try to explore this idea of

1:33:25.880 --> 1:33:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the way a hunter experiences their actions and activities and

1:33:32.400 --> 1:33:35.920
<v Speaker 1>the way those actions and activities look to people who

1:33:35.960 --> 1:33:40.080
<v Speaker 1>are not that they are seeing. There's a there's a

1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:43.520
<v Speaker 1>really good book if you guys, let read Milan Kundera.

1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Kundera's book, The Unbearable Likeness of Being. It's a good book.

1:33:49.040 --> 1:33:51.520
<v Speaker 1>There's a guy and his girlfriend and his novel and

1:33:51.520 --> 1:33:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and she was from the Soviet block and he's not.

1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:57.000
<v Speaker 1>And they talk about when they see a parade, when

1:33:57.040 --> 1:34:00.840
<v Speaker 1>they watch a parade, what she thinks when she sees

1:34:00.840 --> 1:34:04.160
<v Speaker 1>a parade and what he thinks when he sees a parade,

1:34:05.520 --> 1:34:10.639
<v Speaker 1>same thing. Well, they conjures very different, very different emotions

1:34:10.640 --> 1:34:13.559
<v Speaker 1>in them. Um. So we get into that a little bit.

1:34:15.320 --> 1:34:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Um the question like why have ethics become so intertwined

1:34:20.800 --> 1:34:25.680
<v Speaker 1>with today's hunting? Yeah, meaning, um, you know, if you

1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:30.360
<v Speaker 1>go back to the first people, the first Siberians that

1:34:31.160 --> 1:34:34.680
<v Speaker 1>came into the New World, the western hemisphere what's now

1:34:34.760 --> 1:34:41.240
<v Speaker 1>the US, Um, what was there? More? Did they feel? Uh?

1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Was there an ethical conundrum? Was the sadness there? Or

1:34:46.840 --> 1:34:50.559
<v Speaker 1>other animals that are alive now on our planet? Is

1:34:50.560 --> 1:34:53.759
<v Speaker 1>there sadness when the wolf when that elk finally bleeds

1:34:53.800 --> 1:34:56.639
<v Speaker 1>out and dies? Is the wolf? Like, dude, I'm always

1:34:56.680 --> 1:35:01.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of balmed. I imagine the fact that like ancient

1:35:01.920 --> 1:35:06.960
<v Speaker 1>man didn't have it choice, some major mitigating factor. And

1:35:07.120 --> 1:35:09.680
<v Speaker 1>if you look at you know, we don't explore this

1:35:09.800 --> 1:35:11.519
<v Speaker 1>fully at all, but if you look at there was

1:35:11.560 --> 1:35:15.839
<v Speaker 1>also like kind of a hallmark of indigenous hunter gatherer cultures.

1:35:16.040 --> 1:35:17.720
<v Speaker 1>And this is something Robert Jones brings up and he

1:35:17.720 --> 1:35:20.800
<v Speaker 1>winds up contradicting himself. It's not in the movie, but

1:35:21.240 --> 1:35:23.000
<v Speaker 1>some dad like to release the whole interview. He winds

1:35:23.040 --> 1:35:26.960
<v Speaker 1>up contradicting himself because he's okay with indigenous hunting. Yet

1:35:27.040 --> 1:35:30.200
<v Speaker 1>his point is, then animal doesn't care about your things

1:35:30.200 --> 1:35:32.559
<v Speaker 1>that he kept telling me, Like you talk about ethics,

1:35:32.760 --> 1:35:35.000
<v Speaker 1>but animals don't care about your ethics. They're getting killed,

1:35:35.000 --> 1:35:36.680
<v Speaker 1>they feel pain, and they die. They don't care what

1:35:36.760 --> 1:35:39.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of trip you're on. Yet he expresses to me

1:35:39.400 --> 1:35:42.720
<v Speaker 1>being okay with indigenous hunters because it has religious connotations

1:35:42.760 --> 1:35:44.479
<v Speaker 1>for them, and I'm like, the animal doesn't know it

1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:47.200
<v Speaker 1>has religious connotations. You're contradicting what you just told me.

1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:49.680
<v Speaker 1>And maybe I feel something that's borders on the religious.

1:35:50.880 --> 1:35:52.719
<v Speaker 1>But it's a thing where like people that are anti

1:35:52.800 --> 1:35:56.000
<v Speaker 1>hunters oftentimes had to find these ways to make other

1:35:56.080 --> 1:35:58.200
<v Speaker 1>things that they feel should be okay okay. And the

1:35:58.280 --> 1:36:01.200
<v Speaker 1>thing that's hard for them to explain is it's harder

1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:03.479
<v Speaker 1>than to be like, well, why can indigenous people hunt?

1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Because they don't want to say they can't. It's like colonialism,

1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:09.240
<v Speaker 1>But you wonder why then, like how like this brings

1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:10.560
<v Speaker 1>it all the way back around to what we're just

1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:12.920
<v Speaker 1>talking about with Leopold and like Pope and Young. Right,

1:36:12.960 --> 1:36:15.200
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of stories those boys going out on hunting

1:36:15.200 --> 1:36:17.960
<v Speaker 1>trips with hundreds of arrows because they were known to

1:36:18.080 --> 1:36:21.760
<v Speaker 1>fling it a distances now even the best archers think

1:36:21.840 --> 1:36:25.240
<v Speaker 1>are long and far with today's equipment, right, And so

1:36:25.439 --> 1:36:27.439
<v Speaker 1>even in that short period of time, what is that?

1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:30.519
<v Speaker 1>When when did Pope and Young come around? Like, I

1:36:30.600 --> 1:36:33.600
<v Speaker 1>think what was it? Was it? That it could have

1:36:33.600 --> 1:36:35.960
<v Speaker 1>been like really weirdly early too, but I want to

1:36:36.880 --> 1:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>either way within the last within the last hundred years, right,

1:36:41.160 --> 1:36:44.639
<v Speaker 1>So look where the hunting ethics is coming that short

1:36:44.680 --> 1:36:47.360
<v Speaker 1>period of time. Yeah, or just some of the classic

1:36:47.360 --> 1:36:51.680
<v Speaker 1>gun writers are lobbing bullets out there taking shots with

1:36:52.920 --> 1:36:59.200
<v Speaker 1>That's why we call Yanni, not because I love shots.

1:36:59.439 --> 1:37:03.920
<v Speaker 1>We call me Anie Van's Wall too, but um yeah,

1:37:03.960 --> 1:37:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Yanni O'Connor, Jack O'Connor. He they'd like roll up on

1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:10.320
<v Speaker 1>a group with big horns and just everyone and start

1:37:10.360 --> 1:37:12.680
<v Speaker 1>shooting and they're going they're like, oh my gosh, we

1:37:12.720 --> 1:37:16.200
<v Speaker 1>want to before Well there's also I mean this is

1:37:16.280 --> 1:37:23.600
<v Speaker 1>going that late no really, yeah, but that's that's the

1:37:24.320 --> 1:37:28.600
<v Speaker 1>that's when it became an official club, Pope and Young themselves.

1:37:28.960 --> 1:37:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I think we're doing things prior to that. But the

1:37:31.360 --> 1:37:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Pope and Young Club and art right, I think so. Yeah,

1:37:35.600 --> 1:37:40.599
<v Speaker 1>because Boone and Crockett Club was early eighties all right, Randall? Yes,

1:37:41.520 --> 1:37:44.599
<v Speaker 1>so that might do any justice Yanni on on the

1:37:44.600 --> 1:37:46.800
<v Speaker 1>themes you're in the point. I want to move on

1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:49.160
<v Speaker 1>to Randall though, since we got him here. Yeah, those

1:37:49.160 --> 1:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>boys are hunting together, just to wrap it all up,

1:37:51.640 --> 1:37:56.040
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eleven twelve. In those years, I hope they like

1:37:56.160 --> 1:37:58.720
<v Speaker 1>each other. They liked each other because they're like nuts

1:37:58.760 --> 1:38:05.559
<v Speaker 1>on a dog now. Yeah, yeah, they're just together. You know. Um, Randall,

1:38:05.640 --> 1:38:07.360
<v Speaker 1>if you had like a one to ten, if you

1:38:07.400 --> 1:38:11.400
<v Speaker 1>had a sliding scale of one to ten and you

1:38:11.479 --> 1:38:18.559
<v Speaker 1>had to rate our job of capturing what you had

1:38:18.600 --> 1:38:23.160
<v Speaker 1>to say on a one to ten, where are we

1:38:23.360 --> 1:38:27.040
<v Speaker 1>four or five? Where are we? Like when you watched it, Like,

1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:31.280
<v Speaker 1>what was your level of disappointment? Oh? I was thrilled?

1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:34.120
<v Speaker 1>You were thrilled? Yeah you were disappointed? No, I mean

1:38:34.160 --> 1:38:36.160
<v Speaker 1>we had we talked to you a lot. Yeah, we

1:38:36.240 --> 1:38:38.240
<v Speaker 1>did one interview. There's probably like three and a half

1:38:38.280 --> 1:38:41.360
<v Speaker 1>hours and one that was probably to something and uh,

1:38:41.520 --> 1:38:44.400
<v Speaker 1>somedoy who release all these as just a giant transcription?

1:38:44.560 --> 1:38:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh god? You know, like I I walked away from

1:38:51.560 --> 1:38:53.920
<v Speaker 1>each one of those interviews feeling kind of punch drunk,

1:38:54.120 --> 1:38:56.639
<v Speaker 1>like did I really say that that way? Or did

1:38:56.640 --> 1:38:59.439
<v Speaker 1>I get it backwards or did I flip that? You know,

1:39:00.040 --> 1:39:03.080
<v Speaker 1>did I actually get across what I was trying to say?

1:39:03.160 --> 1:39:06.760
<v Speaker 1>And and when I pressed play on the documentary for

1:39:06.760 --> 1:39:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the first time, my hope was that I would just

1:39:11.760 --> 1:39:14.200
<v Speaker 1>make sense and then I wouldn't say something that was

1:39:14.320 --> 1:39:20.080
<v Speaker 1>categorically false or outrageous. Um. And I thought, I I

1:39:20.120 --> 1:39:23.360
<v Speaker 1>thought I came out pretty good. Can you tell people

1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:25.920
<v Speaker 1>what it is you did that first put you on

1:39:26.680 --> 1:39:30.880
<v Speaker 1>our radar? Yeah? So I did, uhum a PhD in

1:39:30.960 --> 1:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>history at the University of Montana, and my dissertation was

1:39:36.160 --> 1:39:40.960
<v Speaker 1>a study of hunting in American politics and culture in

1:39:41.600 --> 1:39:46.960
<v Speaker 1>basically the second half of the twentie century, called Green Voters,

1:39:47.000 --> 1:39:52.519
<v Speaker 1>Gun Voters, um, Hunting in American Politics and Culture in

1:39:52.520 --> 1:39:56.519
<v Speaker 1>the twentieth Century. I think, did we know that that

1:39:56.640 --> 1:39:59.080
<v Speaker 1>was the title? Back in the day? You do that?

1:39:59.360 --> 1:40:02.960
<v Speaker 1>I knew that, Um, Yeah, it's not published. He was

1:40:03.000 --> 1:40:08.000
<v Speaker 1>ahead of his time it's not published. I started working

1:40:08.040 --> 1:40:10.479
<v Speaker 1>as an editor after that, and at the end of

1:40:10.520 --> 1:40:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the day I just wanted to put away the computer

1:40:13.600 --> 1:40:15.760
<v Speaker 1>and not look at another word document, so I never

1:40:15.840 --> 1:40:18.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of picked it back up. Um, did you uh? Did?

1:40:18.920 --> 1:40:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Did you get your a little piece of paper that

1:40:20.200 --> 1:40:24.759
<v Speaker 1>says PhD? I did? I did, And I just realized

1:40:24.760 --> 1:40:26.360
<v Speaker 1>the other day I have no idea where that is.

1:40:27.200 --> 1:40:29.640
<v Speaker 1>No one's I was looking at my wife's degree on

1:40:29.680 --> 1:40:31.280
<v Speaker 1>the wall and I was like, man, I don't don't

1:40:31.320 --> 1:40:34.320
<v Speaker 1>really know where that that went. No one said, no

1:40:34.360 --> 1:40:36.559
<v Speaker 1>one said to you prove it and you had to go,

1:40:36.680 --> 1:40:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and you've had to go get it. No, I have

1:40:39.439 --> 1:40:41.880
<v Speaker 1>a PhD. How would I have this? I have two

1:40:41.920 --> 1:40:44.479
<v Speaker 1>PhDs and I don't know where one is. This is

1:40:44.520 --> 1:40:51.960
<v Speaker 1>a joke. Don't tell this joke, pretty huge, don't tell

1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:57.280
<v Speaker 1>this joke. Go on, Randall, Um, is that gonna get

1:40:57.320 --> 1:41:01.800
<v Speaker 1>cut because you didn't You didn't all the joke. I

1:41:01.840 --> 1:41:05.240
<v Speaker 1>was actually gonna alert Randall to check in with you

1:41:05.280 --> 1:41:09.000
<v Speaker 1>about your joke. Later used that you used that line

1:41:09.040 --> 1:41:12.560
<v Speaker 1>on me in the first podcast. I think that's I

1:41:13.200 --> 1:41:15.720
<v Speaker 1>learned that from a girl I was dating, and she

1:41:16.080 --> 1:41:20.519
<v Speaker 1>learned on the TV show Friends. Is that right? Wow? Yeah,

1:41:20.600 --> 1:41:24.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that that Friends was like risk a man,

1:41:24.520 --> 1:41:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I had a girlfriend love that show? Go on? Um yeah,

1:41:31.080 --> 1:41:35.720
<v Speaker 1>So basically, I, um, it's part of my research. I

1:41:35.760 --> 1:41:38.519
<v Speaker 1>had just looked at hunting and fishing magazines over the

1:41:38.560 --> 1:41:41.160
<v Speaker 1>course of like sixty some odd years, and looked at

1:41:42.160 --> 1:41:45.559
<v Speaker 1>other public representations of hunting and hunting where it popped

1:41:45.600 --> 1:41:50.840
<v Speaker 1>up in the news or another, um, you know, forms

1:41:50.880 --> 1:41:55.799
<v Speaker 1>of popular culture, like when Sesame Street in the seventies

1:41:55.880 --> 1:41:58.760
<v Speaker 1>or eighties does something on hunting, what does that look like?

1:41:58.960 --> 1:42:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Or how our hunters represented in Looney Tunes things like that.

1:42:02.880 --> 1:42:07.799
<v Speaker 1>So just basically tried to um digest this huge volume

1:42:07.840 --> 1:42:13.200
<v Speaker 1>of material and think about, um, how hunters have represented

1:42:13.240 --> 1:42:16.000
<v Speaker 1>themselves over time, and what others have thought of hunters

1:42:16.040 --> 1:42:21.400
<v Speaker 1>and they um the dialectic between those two things, and

1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:25.519
<v Speaker 1>how that's evolved in this period in which hunting's place

1:42:25.800 --> 1:42:28.360
<v Speaker 1>in popular culture has really changed a lot. Have you

1:42:28.360 --> 1:42:30.439
<v Speaker 1>ever seen that cartoon where it's like it's not part

1:42:30.439 --> 1:42:32.680
<v Speaker 1>of Looney Tunes or anything, but used to be on

1:42:33.400 --> 1:42:35.080
<v Speaker 1>like Saturday Morning once in a a while, where it's like

1:42:35.760 --> 1:42:40.240
<v Speaker 1>deer hunting and it's just like people shooting each other

1:42:40.320 --> 1:42:42.599
<v Speaker 1>and stuff. It was all from the fifties, from the fifties,

1:42:42.600 --> 1:42:45.720
<v Speaker 1>and like one of those in the embedded in his

1:42:45.840 --> 1:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>like an ad for the mother in law deer hunting suit,

1:42:50.920 --> 1:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>and it's like she puts it on, it's a deer suit,

1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:56.840
<v Speaker 1>so she gets it's so she gets shot. And then

1:42:56.840 --> 1:43:00.120
<v Speaker 1>a guy in that same cartoon, a guy shoot the

1:43:00.160 --> 1:43:03.280
<v Speaker 1>buck and then says to his body, I got one

1:43:03.320 --> 1:43:06.479
<v Speaker 1>that's got antlers like this, and he gets his head,

1:43:06.720 --> 1:43:09.519
<v Speaker 1>holds his hands up to show the antlers and his

1:43:09.560 --> 1:43:12.519
<v Speaker 1>friend shoots him. Yeah, and there's one Joe. I don't

1:43:12.520 --> 1:43:14.080
<v Speaker 1>know the lead. I remember the lead up, but it

1:43:14.200 --> 1:43:17.800
<v Speaker 1>ends up with like the deer's driving the car and

1:43:17.960 --> 1:43:21.640
<v Speaker 1>he strapped to the bumpers. I haven't seen that, no,

1:43:22.160 --> 1:43:24.519
<v Speaker 1>And I said before Sesame Street. What I'm thinking about,

1:43:24.520 --> 1:43:26.560
<v Speaker 1>think is the Muppets, And there's like a scene in

1:43:26.600 --> 1:43:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the Muppets um that I came across where that Buffalo

1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Springfield song, like you know, that's one of vivid memories

1:43:38.120 --> 1:43:42.439
<v Speaker 1>of these animals are walking through the forest and their

1:43:42.520 --> 1:43:46.000
<v Speaker 1>hunters there and whenever it stopped, they start shooting. I

1:43:46.000 --> 1:43:48.519
<v Speaker 1>don't remember that. Yeah, and they're they're like these these

1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:50.919
<v Speaker 1>hunters are creeping through the woods looking for the animals.

1:43:51.040 --> 1:43:54.400
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, and it's like a protest anthem. So it

1:43:54.439 --> 1:43:58.759
<v Speaker 1>has by a band that's named after a rifle. Yeah. Yeah.

1:43:58.840 --> 1:44:01.240
<v Speaker 1>I talked about that in my buffal little book Buffalo

1:44:01.280 --> 1:44:07.919
<v Speaker 1>Springfield and what that name? What that name is all about? Um.

1:44:08.200 --> 1:44:11.960
<v Speaker 1>I teach my kids to recognize anti hunting bias and

1:44:12.080 --> 1:44:14.439
<v Speaker 1>the things that they look at. And they're good, my boys.

1:44:14.520 --> 1:44:16.000
<v Speaker 1>My boy is good at picking it up. And we

1:44:16.040 --> 1:44:19.200
<v Speaker 1>talked about in children's literature. It is almost I don't

1:44:19.200 --> 1:44:21.439
<v Speaker 1>want to say daily, but weekly. I bet you I

1:44:21.520 --> 1:44:23.880
<v Speaker 1>got I got to just like stop and be like, okay, girls,

1:44:24.720 --> 1:44:27.280
<v Speaker 1>let's just think about what this book just said and

1:44:27.360 --> 1:44:30.439
<v Speaker 1>like really go through it and and dissect it. Because no,

1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:33.280
<v Speaker 1>wild animals don't need our help. And when you don't

1:44:33.280 --> 1:44:35.720
<v Speaker 1>have to put food on the window sill so that

1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the birds will continue to live, like what in the world.

1:44:39.120 --> 1:44:41.360
<v Speaker 1>That's why you gotta read your kids. Light in the Forest,

1:44:41.520 --> 1:44:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Hatchet my side of the mountain. There's plenty of books

1:44:46.240 --> 1:44:49.920
<v Speaker 1>out there. Man. The worst anti hunting show is um.

1:44:49.960 --> 1:44:53.640
<v Speaker 1>One of the worst anti hunting shows is Wildcrats. I

1:44:53.680 --> 1:45:01.360
<v Speaker 1>haven't seen it. That show so what's this on this

1:45:01.479 --> 1:45:04.600
<v Speaker 1>on the sliding scale, all of your complex ideas, we

1:45:04.720 --> 1:45:07.479
<v Speaker 1>kind of mostly just had you be like a little

1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:09.439
<v Speaker 1>bit of a demographics guy and a little bit of

1:45:09.479 --> 1:45:16.519
<v Speaker 1>a Roosevelt guy. Yeah. I was fine with that. Yeah. Um,

1:45:16.560 --> 1:45:18.840
<v Speaker 1>I felt there's so many people. It's it's funny because

1:45:18.880 --> 1:45:23.320
<v Speaker 1>there's so many people that I feel, UM like getting into.

1:45:23.360 --> 1:45:25.479
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what I was getting into, you know,

1:45:25.680 --> 1:45:27.759
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know how hard it was gonna like. I didn't.

1:45:28.520 --> 1:45:30.439
<v Speaker 1>I just knew I wanted to capture, like we're gonna

1:45:30.479 --> 1:45:33.640
<v Speaker 1>go capture tons of stuff. And then I knew that.

1:45:33.680 --> 1:45:37.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, I've watched hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of movies.

1:45:37.360 --> 1:45:41.639
<v Speaker 1>I know how long they are. Um, And I didn't

1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:44.599
<v Speaker 1>put those two things together like I didn't. I didn't

1:45:44.640 --> 1:45:50.599
<v Speaker 1>think about I wasn't thinking about um. I was thinking

1:45:50.600 --> 1:45:52.479
<v Speaker 1>about it. I wasn't thinking it was gonna be like

1:45:52.600 --> 1:45:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Ken Burns a civil war or something. But never I

1:45:55.000 --> 1:45:56.519
<v Speaker 1>wasn't think I knew what was gonna wind up being.

1:45:56.520 --> 1:45:58.880
<v Speaker 1>It was gonna be like a ninety minute whatever. And

1:45:59.160 --> 1:46:03.759
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't picturing that's what I want to do another

1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:10.599
<v Speaker 1>one someday. I wasn't imagining what would happen to all

1:46:10.640 --> 1:46:18.519
<v Speaker 1>of these ideas. Not only that, like that you need

1:46:18.560 --> 1:46:22.240
<v Speaker 1>to like simplify things and pare it down for a

1:46:22.240 --> 1:46:24.880
<v Speaker 1>couple of reasons so that the viewer could understand, and

1:46:25.000 --> 1:46:27.480
<v Speaker 1>you also have the sense of allegiance to the subject.

1:46:28.120 --> 1:46:31.760
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, I can't have the subjects say ten

1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:36.600
<v Speaker 1>things incompletely. Yeah, I'm gonna have to find they're just

1:46:36.600 --> 1:46:38.280
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to say two things in a way that

1:46:38.320 --> 1:46:43.000
<v Speaker 1>makes sense, yea, rather than letting them right there giving

1:46:43.040 --> 1:46:44.960
<v Speaker 1>them sound bites about tons of stuff. It's like, I

1:46:44.960 --> 1:46:47.040
<v Speaker 1>gotta this is gonna be like like if you're gonna

1:46:47.040 --> 1:46:49.640
<v Speaker 1>boil it down, what are some things? And then the

1:46:49.640 --> 1:46:52.000
<v Speaker 1>problem with like with friends, and there's so many friends

1:46:52.040 --> 1:46:56.040
<v Speaker 1>of mine in it, you know, Rogan's in it, Robert

1:46:56.080 --> 1:46:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Abernathew's in it. I don't want to point like, I

1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:00.920
<v Speaker 1>don't want to posset these problems their problems only in

1:47:00.920 --> 1:47:02.800
<v Speaker 1>my head, because they're not problems for someone to watch

1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>the film. I really want people to watch films I do.

1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I like, I like, I want people to see an

1:47:06.880 --> 1:47:09.240
<v Speaker 1>experience it. So there's the thing we keep talking about,

1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:11.240
<v Speaker 1>like these things and it's like way as you perceive them,

1:47:11.240 --> 1:47:14.600
<v Speaker 1>there's the thing, and the thing as a freestanding entity

1:47:14.880 --> 1:47:17.679
<v Speaker 1>is something I want people to see, but I can't

1:47:17.680 --> 1:47:22.639
<v Speaker 1>watch it without all of the the noise in my head.

1:47:22.720 --> 1:47:24.200
<v Speaker 1>And part of the noise in my head is like

1:47:24.840 --> 1:47:27.320
<v Speaker 1>I had these friends who have really interesting experiences, like

1:47:27.320 --> 1:47:31.000
<v Speaker 1>like Matt, who's sitting here, has this very refreshing like

1:47:31.040 --> 1:47:35.599
<v Speaker 1>everything out of MAT's mouth is delights me, Like everything

1:47:35.600 --> 1:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>he says delights me. So um, Doug, you know, like dogs,

1:47:43.960 --> 1:47:46.880
<v Speaker 1>like this generous, beautiful person with kind of this like

1:47:46.920 --> 1:47:49.280
<v Speaker 1>a way to express, to explain his life in the

1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:53.120
<v Speaker 1>way that's very moving and instructive. Right, And you have

1:47:53.280 --> 1:47:56.920
<v Speaker 1>this like really cohesive view of something that's really complicated

1:47:57.479 --> 1:48:01.760
<v Speaker 1>and like a real knack for sort of blaming this

1:48:02.400 --> 1:48:05.640
<v Speaker 1>activity that is so influenced by history and influenced by

1:48:05.640 --> 1:48:08.000
<v Speaker 1>demographics and sort of like making it seem like a picture,

1:48:08.640 --> 1:48:12.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, like like presenting it and and I'm friends

1:48:12.960 --> 1:48:15.000
<v Speaker 1>with you guys, and so then to put you there,

1:48:15.080 --> 1:48:17.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm also like what I want them to look like?

1:48:18.200 --> 1:48:21.840
<v Speaker 1>What I see when I see them, It's just it's

1:48:21.880 --> 1:48:25.120
<v Speaker 1>just complicated. Man. Oh yeah, I'm kind of haunted by

1:48:25.160 --> 1:48:27.920
<v Speaker 1>the I'm haunted by the process. Well, I think that's

1:48:27.560 --> 1:48:29.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm good. I'm I'm so. I'm glad as to be

1:48:29.560 --> 1:48:31.599
<v Speaker 1>sitting here talking because I want to make sure we're cool. Yeah,

1:48:32.120 --> 1:48:34.640
<v Speaker 1>we're all good. And this also goes out as an

1:48:34.680 --> 1:48:37.479
<v Speaker 1>apology to all those other people that the interview that

1:48:37.600 --> 1:48:40.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't make the cut. Well, I know, I mean, I

1:48:41.040 --> 1:48:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of what you're saying resonates with me because

1:48:43.080 --> 1:48:48.200
<v Speaker 1>when I, UM worked on my dissertation, you're telling a

1:48:48.280 --> 1:48:52.120
<v Speaker 1>story and you're trying to explain something through the storytelling process,

1:48:52.160 --> 1:48:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and you have to choose a beginning and an end

1:48:54.960 --> 1:48:58.240
<v Speaker 1>and an arc to it, and you can't compress everything

1:48:58.280 --> 1:49:02.280
<v Speaker 1>in there. And UM. So that's like, when I go

1:49:02.360 --> 1:49:05.080
<v Speaker 1>back and look at my dissertation, I remember all the

1:49:05.200 --> 1:49:08.640
<v Speaker 1>things that started to become threads that I wanted to

1:49:08.680 --> 1:49:11.760
<v Speaker 1>weave into this and I had to I had to

1:49:11.800 --> 1:49:15.479
<v Speaker 1>cut them. UM. And I have, you know, boxes and

1:49:15.560 --> 1:49:19.480
<v Speaker 1>boxes of photo copies and notes and things like that

1:49:19.479 --> 1:49:21.439
<v Speaker 1>that have been traveling around with me for a couple

1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:25.080
<v Speaker 1>of years and UM, and they're all little things that

1:49:25.160 --> 1:49:28.800
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to cram into that. UM because when I

1:49:28.840 --> 1:49:32.120
<v Speaker 1>read what I wrote, I think, like man, it's it's

1:49:32.160 --> 1:49:35.519
<v Speaker 1>more complex than that. There are several other layers that

1:49:35.600 --> 1:49:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I need to to weave into this thing. Um and

1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:44.840
<v Speaker 1>and so yeah, I mean I think especially with you know,

1:49:44.880 --> 1:49:47.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm lucky because I I didn't have a page limit. Um.

1:49:48.280 --> 1:49:51.200
<v Speaker 1>But when you're making a documentary film, obviously there's that

1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:53.000
<v Speaker 1>window of time that you have to fit it into.

1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:56.200
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter how good the stuff you get is. Um,

1:49:56.439 --> 1:49:59.400
<v Speaker 1>you have to make those really really tough choices. You

1:49:59.439 --> 1:50:02.559
<v Speaker 1>ought to cred sism we got early on about the movie,

1:50:03.600 --> 1:50:05.200
<v Speaker 1>which I would have thought would have been a compliment,

1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:08.160
<v Speaker 1>but it was always issued as a criticism is it

1:50:08.200 --> 1:50:11.960
<v Speaker 1>doesn't come down hard enough on anything. It feels too

1:50:11.960 --> 1:50:19.679
<v Speaker 1>open ended. And I always want to be like, that's great, yeah,

1:50:20.400 --> 1:50:23.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean if people wanted to be like

1:50:23.400 --> 1:50:25.400
<v Speaker 1>a like a like a Michael Moore kind of thing.

1:50:25.479 --> 1:50:28.639
<v Speaker 1>I try not to surround myself with people who come

1:50:28.680 --> 1:50:33.320
<v Speaker 1>down hard on stuff like there's what's the point, you know?

1:50:33.680 --> 1:50:39.160
<v Speaker 1>And to the point earlier about having this animal ethicist

1:50:39.560 --> 1:50:43.320
<v Speaker 1>as a leading figure in the documentary, like having an

1:50:43.320 --> 1:50:48.360
<v Speaker 1>open exchange of ideas and questioning your own ideas and

1:50:48.760 --> 1:50:51.280
<v Speaker 1>reflecting on what you really think or what you really

1:50:51.320 --> 1:50:54.559
<v Speaker 1>believe or what values you have. Like if you just

1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:58.240
<v Speaker 1>are in an echo chamber and you're you know, talking

1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:00.880
<v Speaker 1>about the people on the outside, or you're talking about

1:51:00.920 --> 1:51:04.640
<v Speaker 1>how great the people in this room are, what are

1:51:04.680 --> 1:51:08.160
<v Speaker 1>you really doing? You know, it's not it's not a

1:51:08.200 --> 1:51:11.720
<v Speaker 1>real serious intellectual exercise. And so yeah, I'm you could

1:51:11.720 --> 1:51:13.840
<v Speaker 1>have made a movie of people saying, dude, if we

1:51:13.840 --> 1:51:19.400
<v Speaker 1>don't kill all the deer, we'll get overrun. Yeah. Yeah,

1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:22.479
<v Speaker 1>And I think, like, you know, one other thing too,

1:51:22.560 --> 1:51:26.040
<v Speaker 1>is like it's really easy to like write a book

1:51:26.080 --> 1:51:29.519
<v Speaker 1>review or a movie review and and slam it. Like

1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:32.200
<v Speaker 1>and this is something that at least in graduate school

1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:35.679
<v Speaker 1>you could recognize people are starting to write book reviews.

1:51:36.280 --> 1:51:39.040
<v Speaker 1>They just trash everything or it's the greatest thing they've

1:51:39.040 --> 1:51:43.240
<v Speaker 1>ever read. But it takes, you know, it takes it

1:51:43.280 --> 1:51:46.439
<v Speaker 1>takes a lot more effort to to you know, pick

1:51:46.520 --> 1:51:50.240
<v Speaker 1>something apart and ask questions of it and go back

1:51:50.280 --> 1:51:54.280
<v Speaker 1>and revisit and chew on it, and and that ultimately generates,

1:51:54.600 --> 1:51:59.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, more questions. Like a film reviewed on NPR,

1:51:59.280 --> 1:52:03.000
<v Speaker 1>You're like, I can't tell that dude really like, yeah,

1:52:03.080 --> 1:52:05.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think that's so he might not want

1:52:05.479 --> 1:52:10.519
<v Speaker 1>to bore his listeners with whether he liked it or not. Yeah, right, Yeah,

1:52:11.080 --> 1:52:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I always want to know because I'm like, well, I mean,

1:52:14.000 --> 1:52:15.960
<v Speaker 1>this is his job. He liked it, I'll I might

1:52:16.000 --> 1:52:19.759
<v Speaker 1>be more inclined to see it. Yeah, if you're always

1:52:19.800 --> 1:52:22.720
<v Speaker 1>to be thought provoking, I think he succeeded there. I

1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:27.280
<v Speaker 1>think everybody can't agree on that, right, Yeah, it's I

1:52:27.320 --> 1:52:30.559
<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's it's nice to see something that, like hunting,

1:52:30.600 --> 1:52:35.000
<v Speaker 1>as you're saying, is often portrayed as this cartoonish activity

1:52:35.240 --> 1:52:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and you're either the hero or you're the villain, and

1:52:39.120 --> 1:52:42.080
<v Speaker 1>that's not the reality of it. And so to see

1:52:42.080 --> 1:52:47.240
<v Speaker 1>this like nuanced, um exploration of what we're all doing

1:52:47.280 --> 1:52:49.479
<v Speaker 1>and why we do it, and why we think we

1:52:49.560 --> 1:52:52.519
<v Speaker 1>do it, why we may actually do it. Um. I

1:52:52.520 --> 1:52:55.400
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I found that refreshing. It would be interesting

1:52:55.439 --> 1:53:01.000
<v Speaker 1>to like hear what I don't ten people from various

1:53:01.240 --> 1:53:05.840
<v Speaker 1>uh walks of life that don't hunt. What did what

1:53:06.720 --> 1:53:09.760
<v Speaker 1>did anything change in their perception upon it? If you

1:53:09.800 --> 1:53:12.439
<v Speaker 1>could make them, If you could take people who were

1:53:12.640 --> 1:53:16.760
<v Speaker 1>ambivalent or hostile to hunting and somehow forced them to

1:53:16.800 --> 1:53:19.400
<v Speaker 1>watch and then do a post interview, Yeah, I could

1:53:19.479 --> 1:53:21.120
<v Speaker 1>set that up. I just haven't done it yet, but

1:53:21.120 --> 1:53:25.200
<v Speaker 1>it'll be interesting to it. Definitely do it. And you know, well,

1:53:25.200 --> 1:53:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I need to hear it now.

1:53:27.240 --> 1:53:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Maybe when the making of it I would have been

1:53:28.800 --> 1:53:31.200
<v Speaker 1>interested here, but now it's like something that would be

1:53:31.200 --> 1:53:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the reason that I would do it. Uh. You know

1:53:33.760 --> 1:53:35.479
<v Speaker 1>remember how I began. You want to you want to

1:53:35.520 --> 1:53:38.120
<v Speaker 1>see some full circle? Right? You want to see it

1:53:38.200 --> 1:53:40.760
<v Speaker 1>like Uh, as long as you're gonna allow me to

1:53:40.760 --> 1:53:43.920
<v Speaker 1>to do a concluding question, you can including questions you

1:53:43.960 --> 1:53:46.760
<v Speaker 1>want to see me bring something full circle. Remember how

1:53:48.080 --> 1:53:53.960
<v Speaker 1>earlier I mentioned uh Ian Frasier, what did I say

1:53:53.960 --> 1:53:56.439
<v Speaker 1>about the in Fraser earlier? He starts his books with

1:53:57.080 --> 1:53:58.800
<v Speaker 1>he likes to tell people right away in his books

1:53:58.840 --> 1:54:00.800
<v Speaker 1>about there about he thinks to will start reading the book.

1:54:00.840 --> 1:54:02.040
<v Speaker 1>They want to know what. They don't want to wait

1:54:02.080 --> 1:54:04.920
<v Speaker 1>to find out what it's about. He also told me

1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:08.679
<v Speaker 1>this when he's right. He's a nonfiction writer. When he's

1:54:08.680 --> 1:54:12.080
<v Speaker 1>writing and he's profiling people, he'll get this feeling that

1:54:12.200 --> 1:54:15.759
<v Speaker 1>they're not gonna like what he's writing, and he always

1:54:16.240 --> 1:54:20.640
<v Speaker 1>um mitigates that by getting a very flattering physical description

1:54:20.680 --> 1:54:27.400
<v Speaker 1>of them. Where she says usually can undoes any harm.

1:54:28.080 --> 1:54:29.519
<v Speaker 1>They're like, you know, I really like that. You know,

1:54:31.479 --> 1:54:35.480
<v Speaker 1>I likes what you had to say about our conversation. Uh,

1:54:35.640 --> 1:54:37.360
<v Speaker 1>I didn't need to do that with you guys, because

1:54:37.360 --> 1:54:41.240
<v Speaker 1>it's a movie, and so people can see just how

1:54:41.360 --> 1:54:45.600
<v Speaker 1>wonderful you all are by going to Vimeo and watching

1:54:45.880 --> 1:54:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Stars in the Sky. That was that is, that's from

1:54:53.200 --> 1:54:58.440
<v Speaker 1>years of That's why you do it. And just picture

1:54:58.480 --> 1:55:01.200
<v Speaker 1>him with a little more grain and Doug just imagine

1:55:01.280 --> 1:55:04.040
<v Speaker 1>you see Doug now, just imagined him when he looked younger.

1:55:04.360 --> 1:55:06.080
<v Speaker 1>It'd be it would be even better if you just

1:55:06.120 --> 1:55:09.760
<v Speaker 1>went to Stars in the Sky film dot com and

1:55:09.760 --> 1:55:11.440
<v Speaker 1>bought it there, wash it there. That was a little

1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:15.400
<v Speaker 1>more blunt. We could, but then we can we could

1:55:15.440 --> 1:55:17.640
<v Speaker 1>track here, We could track your watching better, and we

1:55:17.680 --> 1:55:19.960
<v Speaker 1>could report numbers to people that give a ship and

1:55:20.000 --> 1:55:23.360
<v Speaker 1>it would help us out. So Stars in the Sky

1:55:23.440 --> 1:55:27.080
<v Speaker 1>film dot Com you told me when you first started

1:55:27.080 --> 1:55:29.680
<v Speaker 1>doing this that, like, really the end goal was to

1:55:29.720 --> 1:55:33.320
<v Speaker 1>do it well enough so that you would be allowed

1:55:33.400 --> 1:55:36.240
<v Speaker 1>to make another one. That's the wardy Allen Maxim. Yes,

1:55:36.520 --> 1:55:38.520
<v Speaker 1>but you have his movies were good enough that they

1:55:38.640 --> 1:55:41.320
<v Speaker 1>let him make another one. But you thought that that

1:55:41.360 --> 1:55:46.000
<v Speaker 1>would be like a measure of success. Yeah, so do

1:55:46.080 --> 1:55:48.160
<v Speaker 1>we know that now or if not, how long will

1:55:48.200 --> 1:55:50.920
<v Speaker 1>it be until we know? I'll make another movie. I'll

1:55:50.920 --> 1:55:56.480
<v Speaker 1>make another movie. Um, but just my circumstances are such that,

1:55:56.880 --> 1:56:00.040
<v Speaker 1>like it doesn't matter. I'll just find a way I

1:56:00.040 --> 1:56:02.400
<v Speaker 1>would like to make it on a movie. And uh, yeah,

1:56:03.640 --> 1:56:05.720
<v Speaker 1>all right, I'll write more books and I'm gonna make

1:56:05.720 --> 1:56:08.320
<v Speaker 1>another movie. I don't know if it's gonna because someone

1:56:08.400 --> 1:56:11.760
<v Speaker 1>let me, or if it's gonna want someone let me.

1:56:12.000 --> 1:56:13.880
<v Speaker 1>What's gonna want to be because I went and did it?

1:56:14.240 --> 1:56:18.080
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I love it. That's my favorite. Um. If

1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:21.120
<v Speaker 1>I if I had to be honest with you, if

1:56:21.160 --> 1:56:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I had to pick up medium a medium, if God

1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:26.360
<v Speaker 1>came down and put a gun to my head and

1:56:26.360 --> 1:56:31.120
<v Speaker 1>made me pick a one medium, one thing that I

1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:33.080
<v Speaker 1>could take in for the rest of my life, it

1:56:33.120 --> 1:56:36.080
<v Speaker 1>would be films. And if he really subdivided it out,

1:56:36.120 --> 1:56:41.200
<v Speaker 1>I would say documentaries. H yeah, because even if I

1:56:41.200 --> 1:56:42.880
<v Speaker 1>went blind, I could still listen to him, and if

1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:45.720
<v Speaker 1>I went deaf, I could watch him. Good point. Tell

1:56:45.760 --> 1:56:52.600
<v Speaker 1>him that website again, Yanni Stars Film dot Com. Al Right, everyone,

1:56:52.680 --> 1:56:54.480
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much guys for coming down I really

1:56:54.560 --> 1:56:57.480
<v Speaker 1>do love you guys, and you people listening. I meant

1:56:57.520 --> 1:56:58.960
<v Speaker 1>I was talking about these guys, but you guys do

1:56:59.800 --> 1:57:02.240
<v Speaker 1>not don't know them, But you'd love him if you

1:57:02.320 --> 1:57:02.840
<v Speaker 1>got to know him.