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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are

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Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor

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Speaker 1: where you stand with on X Doug, you'll be able

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Speaker 1: to relate to this story. Guy wrote in and he

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Speaker 1: got his uh, got his nipple pierced, And sure how

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be able to relate to this story. This

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Speaker 1: is a joke I stole from Brian Cowen where if

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Speaker 1: you're telling someone a story that has you tell us

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Speaker 1: some story that has really in a crowd. You'll tell

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Speaker 1: like some like perverse story and you'll say like, oh

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Speaker 1: you know, Billy, this will you'll appreciate this, Bill, And

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Speaker 1: you tell like some stories and people are like later

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Speaker 1: they're like, why would you know? So that's why I

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Speaker 1: wanted to correct it right away. So a guy guess

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Speaker 1: his nipple piers and he writes in about it and

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Speaker 1: he's out shooting his bow. You can imagine when this

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Speaker 1: is going right, Oh god, yeah, very painful. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that's something i'd be writing you about well, we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about stuff people getting It started off with

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Speaker 1: hunting scars, and Gala rode in to say she had

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Speaker 1: jumped jumped to barb wire fence ripped her nipple, and

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Speaker 1: then the ripple nipping nipple ripping stories have come in

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Speaker 1: and rolled in. She was jumping a fence to go

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Speaker 1: dove hunting, and yeah, we told the whole story anyways,

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Speaker 1: and then she had made a joke about how her

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Speaker 1: husband and later she said, my husband called that one scarface.

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Speaker 1: And then other people wrote in, Um, just nipple ripping

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Speaker 1: stories catches free people that are slower the take. He

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Speaker 1: gets his nipple pierced. That's one. Like, that's one. I

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Speaker 1: just I mean, God bless right, but I just don't

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Speaker 1: just that not on my list before I went tongue piercing,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah for sure. But if you wrote down all

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Speaker 1: the things you could get pierced in a list, and

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Speaker 1: I had to start like from the top, and I

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Speaker 1: know when it would end, I would that won't be

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Speaker 1: real low, real low on my list. Um, but he

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Speaker 1: catches it on his bow string, right, I would. I

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Speaker 1: would if that happened to me, I would say that

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Speaker 1: it happened, you keep it secret, No, I would say

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Speaker 1: it publicly. Yeah, Like, I don't know how to say this,

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Speaker 1: but in the last few years, but I I've increased.

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Speaker 1: I've never been I've never I've never I've never been

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Speaker 1: like reluctant to publicized when I do something stupid. But

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Speaker 1: it's gotten the point where I really wanted out there.

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Speaker 1: It's like a kind of a form of masochism. Well,

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Speaker 1: you dumb motherfucker. People are gonna know about this too,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's maybe it's like some kind of form

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Speaker 1: of like self betterment, Like, well, I think it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's helpful too, because the worst thing you can

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Speaker 1: be as a blowhard. Yeah, so if you are generally

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Speaker 1: competent person and you it's like under promising over delivering.

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Speaker 1: And if you're very vocal about what you've screwed up,

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Speaker 1: but you are generally competent, it's only gonna do good

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Speaker 1: for you. And I have found that when I have

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Speaker 1: like contractor a contractor over that staid as the plumbing

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Speaker 1: problem is beyond me to figure out if I have

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Speaker 1: a contractor over and I say, you know, I'm such

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Speaker 1: a dumbass when it comes to this right, It just

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Speaker 1: makes the whole thing go better. Then if you're in

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Speaker 1: there acting like you but got it solved, do you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? You're also putting yourself in a

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Speaker 1: position to learn a little bit more, probably too speak

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Speaker 1: of things. Then it's good stories you could tell to

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Speaker 1: the world and kind of get it, you know. Up

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Speaker 1: a I saw a picture, but I didn't really get

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Speaker 1: a story. Yeah, No, that's kind of where I was

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Speaker 1: going with this. Yeah, so this is yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: me putting on sackcloth and ashes right here. Is that

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Speaker 1: a biblical reference? Mm hmm. What part of the Bible?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, isn't the sa and ashes? And then

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Speaker 1: also I think it's all I think it's in several

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Speaker 1: places in the Old Testament. And I think that when

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Speaker 1: one is wearing sat cloth and ashes there there it

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Speaker 1: was a stupid way. It wasn't the right usage because

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Speaker 1: it's usually you're repenting for something, but not repenting hat.

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing a hair shirt in the Bible, I don't

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Speaker 1: know when Usually when somebody's wearing set cloth and putting

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Speaker 1: ashes on their face, they're they're also gnashing their teeth.

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Speaker 1: That seems to be my boy, does that my four

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Speaker 1: year old. I have a lament that does it. I

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Speaker 1: think that nipple piercing just got replaced by you know

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Speaker 1: where this is going is you're gonna tell them? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But first I got asked, you have a Llama shirt

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Speaker 1: on right now. Somebody gave me this. It's a little

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Speaker 1: tight on me. So it says Wikipedia fact number thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred one. Llamas like to wrestle. Yeah, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: like that shirt. I don't know. Okay, go on, So

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Speaker 1: what happens? Um? They do like to wrestle though, they do?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I thought I was just being stupid

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Speaker 1: and cut. They like to wrestle. Yeah, sometimes I go

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Speaker 1: out in my pasture and break it up because I'm

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Speaker 1: afraid one of them is gonna get hurt. Really, what

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Speaker 1: is that, Doug? What was your thing about farm wrestling? Well,

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Speaker 1: Duc threatened the farm wrestle. It was a typo. It

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Speaker 1: was no, no, it was him. He was He was interested,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know what that is, but I want

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Speaker 1: to happen. He wanted something from me, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll arm wrestle you for it. But I think I

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Speaker 1: spoke into my phone and I said farm wrestling because

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Speaker 1: farm wrestle anyway. So there are playing with your bow

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Speaker 1: and arrows. Yeah, I Um, I was shooting out of

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Speaker 1: my house this winter because it was bit or cold,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I but I wanted to kind of

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Speaker 1: keep up on the shooting a little bit. So I

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Speaker 1: open was opening up the window and shooting out the window.

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Speaker 1: And I went out to fetch my arrows. And I

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Speaker 1: had an idea why I was out there. It's like, man,

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Speaker 1: I cannot see my pins very good inside the house.

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Speaker 1: So I went out into the garage and I got

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Speaker 1: a got my head lamp and it was zip tieing

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Speaker 1: to my site pin and then I got back in it.

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Speaker 1: You know, things a little bright, you know, So I

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Speaker 1: was you know, I was like there was a lot

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Speaker 1: going on, and I freaking forgot that I had closed

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Speaker 1: the window. Did you hit the target? I never found

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Speaker 1: that arrow. It took me a few seconds to even

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Speaker 1: realize what happened. I was like, what that window? Um? Here,

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Speaker 1: uh another quick thing. I was just reading. I'm reading

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Speaker 1: a book. Oh you know, Randall, you'll appreciate this watch out.

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Speaker 1: You'll appreciate it for real. Remember I was recently asking

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Speaker 1: you about the historian Elliott West because I'm enjoying his

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Speaker 1: books so much, his collection of his essays, one of

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Speaker 1: which is an essay that really counters the idea that

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Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark had discovered, you know, from a European perspective,

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Speaker 1: had discovered the like the great planes, right, And he

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Speaker 1: goes on to explain, at the time Lewis and Clark's

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Speaker 1: um journey, there were Indians on the Great Plains who

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Speaker 1: had been to Europe, met the King of France, and

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Speaker 1: returned home at the time of the Lewis and Clark expedition.

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Speaker 1: So you forward me that story a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: I know, Well, I wasn't got the book that that

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Speaker 1: piece of podcast listener that sent that that essay in,

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Speaker 1: and I went and got the whole book, and then

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Speaker 1: I was trying to and I wanted to get the

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Speaker 1: dope on Elliott West. So I asked Randall what Elliott

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Speaker 1: West's reputation was, and he told me about Elliott west reputation.

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Speaker 1: Then I get the book and I'm reading and there's

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Speaker 1: a piece about the difficult job of a historian to

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Speaker 1: uncover the unheard voices in history, meaning that we follow

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Speaker 1: like oh, Lewis and Clark, right, And we know all

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Speaker 1: these monumentas things, but like the the details of people's

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Speaker 1: lives and people that weren't spoken for, right, people whose

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Speaker 1: recollections aren't like like he talks about the paucity of

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Speaker 1: of accounts from Chinese immigrants who worked in the mines.

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Speaker 1: Right there, they didn't leave a written history, so now

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Speaker 1: you're trying to like find these forgotten voices. And in

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Speaker 1: there he's some about this guy and his brother that

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Speaker 1: are going out to the California gold Rush. And they're

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Speaker 1: leaving the East coast, going to California gold Rush by boat,

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Speaker 1: so presumably going all the way around Patagonia at the time, right,

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Speaker 1: no Panama Canal. His brother dies on the way, so

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Speaker 1: there's two brothers. They leave and his brother dies on

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Speaker 1: the way, and he gets a barrel of brandy and

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Speaker 1: packs his brother into a barrel of brandy. The dead

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Speaker 1: Brady packs into a barrel of brandy, gets to California

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Speaker 1: and to bury his brother at home, promptly sets out

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Speaker 1: on an overland journey with the bear, the brother packing

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Speaker 1: the barrel of brandy to bring him back home. Him again,

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Speaker 1: he's so intent on bringing his brother home. Why why

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Speaker 1: was it easier to do that, and then if he

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Speaker 1: opted to do the ocean one, do you have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff with him? He doesn't explain that, and

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Speaker 1: I haven't dug into the footnotes to find where he

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Speaker 1: pulled that story from. But I don't understand why. I

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Speaker 1: was like, let's go one way. Maybe they were moving

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Speaker 1: a bunch of Maybe they're moving stuff, and he left

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Speaker 1: the stuff and it was quicker to packed him and

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Speaker 1: Brandy just wanted to change the scenery. Yep. Um. A

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Speaker 1: couple of other things I wanted to touch on real quick.

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Speaker 1: A guy wrote in he's fishing and his brother hooks

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Speaker 1: into their fishing on the East coast. Where were they fishing?

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Speaker 1: Could fishing off Maine? And his brother hooks into a

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Speaker 1: big fish. Uh no, I'll appreciate this. Yeah, hooks into

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Speaker 1: a fourteen foot blue shot and they're just fighting it

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Speaker 1: for the fun of it. And it's a strenuous fish fight.

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Speaker 1: That's a sharp go. A couple of days later, he

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Speaker 1: develops this horrible pain in his chest. I can't figure

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Speaker 1: out what it is. Thinks he pulled the muscle. Can't

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Speaker 1: figure out, but it gets worse and worse. Pain goes

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Speaker 1: to a doctor and he's got this tumor that he

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Speaker 1: didn't know about and would have killed him. And somehow,

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Speaker 1: fighting that fish tweaks something in that tumor pressed up

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Speaker 1: against the nerve and alerted him to the presence of

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Speaker 1: that tumor, and they removed the tumor. Now he's fine.

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Speaker 1: Well all the story. Go fishing fish more with your brother. Finally,

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Speaker 1: here's here's one last one before we start, before we

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Speaker 1: get some other stuff. Um guy uh takes his dad

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Speaker 1: turkey hunting. His dad's sentimental type takes his dad turkey hunting.

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Speaker 1: They his dad gets a turkey and he gives the

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Speaker 1: kid the fan because he wants the fan mounted. The

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Speaker 1: guy's dog destroys it. I think it was his dog

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Speaker 1: destroys it. Wife's dog. Oh, you saw this story, wife's

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Speaker 1: dog destroyed. Like, what's the difference between your dog and

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Speaker 1: your wife's dog. Oh, I think it's just and it's

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Speaker 1: the same as I think it's the same thing as

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Speaker 1: if you tie the tune into your girlfriend's car. No,

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend's dog, No, one says my wife. I guess

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Speaker 1: they do, you know what I'm saying. Like, at a point,

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Speaker 1: we have two dogs. My dog is the good one.

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Speaker 1: My wife's dog is a bad one, and it's like

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Speaker 1: the white's dog. My wife she decided to get it

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Speaker 1: when we started dating. And and you don't, you've never

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Speaker 1: acted like it was your our dogs. No, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's our dog, but it's her dog, she said,

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Speaker 1: she's we're we're living together, and she said, um, I

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Speaker 1: want you to know, I put a deposit on a

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Speaker 1: chocolate lab puppy. So if we're gonna keep going with

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Speaker 1: this thing, we need to move into a pet friendly apartment.

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Speaker 1: And you, you know, do you want to go looking

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Speaker 1: for apartments with me or not? And so she made

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Speaker 1: that decision on her own, and he was going to

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Speaker 1: move whether you did or not. Yeah, she was like,

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Speaker 1: she was like, you want to you want to keep

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Speaker 1: this thing rolling for another year's lease, We need to

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Speaker 1: go find a pet friendly apartment. But she she put

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Speaker 1: a deposit on a puppy and did that all on

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Speaker 1: her own. And her dog. He's seven years old and

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Speaker 1: he's terrible and then uh what does he do? Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's just he's like now he's now on dog, big

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Speaker 1: difference between your dog dog go on randall. Now he's

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Speaker 1: just he's too much. He's just hyper. He's a yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a hunter pound lab and lab people are overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: by them. We actually had someone come over for dinner

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Speaker 1: and they hadn't seen him in about a year, and

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Speaker 1: they said, oh, wow, you know, you guys are great.

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Speaker 1: Most people I know wouldn't have kept that dog, no joke,

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Speaker 1: and and I mean we looked at each other like,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know very many people that would get

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Speaker 1: rid of a dog, you know, just send him on

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Speaker 1: his way. But yeah, we got that from someone else.

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Speaker 1: You kept that thing around, didn't you. So But then

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Speaker 1: right before we got married, we got a second dog

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Speaker 1: and I got to pick that one, and she's perfect.

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Speaker 1: She's an angel. That's your dog, Rosie. Yeah, that's my

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Speaker 1: daughter's name. Kind of it's a good name. You know.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I have to sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I have to compare that too, is

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Speaker 1: when I was younger that when um, we would get

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Speaker 1: one of my siblings that I would get in trouble.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like, uh, the one the parent who was

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Speaker 1: pointing that out to the other parents, they would say,

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Speaker 1: your son did this. Yeah, well that's because they're seeing

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Speaker 1: that behavior. I would guess being married and having kids,

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Speaker 1: they're seeing that that behavior the result of your influences.

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Speaker 1: Well they said that. They're saying, like, because of you.

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Speaker 1: What they's what they're saying is because of you, your son,

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Speaker 1: the parts of our child that are that oh to

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Speaker 1: you are responsible for X. Can I get it back

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Speaker 1: to this thing? His mas dog eats it. He then

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Speaker 1: his mom and dad must be divorced. So is my

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Speaker 1: dog eats the His mas dog eats the You follow me, yeah, mom, mom, Mom?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, well by the people might duck ducks,

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Speaker 1: probably losses. So I was just thinking childhood. I'll make

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Speaker 1: a flow diagrams. A guy. There's a guy, we'll call

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Speaker 1: him the kid. He takes his old man turkey hunt.

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Speaker 1: His old man shoes turkey. The kid then takes the

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Speaker 1: old man's turkey fan. His job is to mount the

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Speaker 1: turkey fan as a gift to the old man. He

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Speaker 1: then takes it to his mom's house to store it.

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Speaker 1: The mom's dog, if they are divorced, it's because the

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Speaker 1: mom's dog is still right out for vengeance, eats the

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Speaker 1: turkey fan. He then goes and gets a different turkeys fan,

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Speaker 1: mounts that gives it to the old man. And never

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Speaker 1: tells the old man the truth. So the old man

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Speaker 1: when people come over his house, he's stuck in the

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Speaker 1: awkward position of pointing it to the on the wall

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Speaker 1: and being like, see that, and then telling all about

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Speaker 1: what happened, when in fact it's a lie. But the

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Speaker 1: old man is not stuck in that position because he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know. He doesn't know. The guy is like, am

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Speaker 1: I that immoral? What do you think? I think it's

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Speaker 1: keeping the peace, you know, between the parents, the divorced parents.

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Speaker 1: I'm reading that into it. I don't know. Oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: just guessing if that's the case. Though I agree with you,

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Speaker 1: if there really is at keeping the peace, that was

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Speaker 1: a part of it. I feel like he would have

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Speaker 1: said that it was a part of like that his

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Speaker 1: folks were divorced and now the ma know. I just

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Speaker 1: think he felt bad. Yeah, it's not like he's trying

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Speaker 1: to like preserve some little semblance of you know, some

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Speaker 1: little semblance of family, you know, dignity this left after

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Speaker 1: this tumultuous divorce. He's not laying out that level of trouble.

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Speaker 1: It all comes down to whether he can live with

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Speaker 1: his little white lie or not. I think that it's immoral,

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Speaker 1: and I would tell the old man. You might not

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Speaker 1: remember this. Are you innocuous? Do you remember? Well, let

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Speaker 1: me tell you a lie. Let me tell you something

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Speaker 1: that happened to me, and you'll know all the players

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Speaker 1: probably has something to do with something. So when we

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Speaker 1: were little, real little, you know, how daddies to take us,

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Speaker 1: like you could go fishing on your birthday. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was my flied. I don't remember that, like you would

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Speaker 1: often get the you would get the play hooky if

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Speaker 1: you wanted an ice fish on your birthday, because I

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Speaker 1: had a February birthday or whatever, different activities. He took

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Speaker 1: me out and a guy caught a big northern not not.

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Speaker 1: Our party was me and Dad and I think alcoholic

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Speaker 1: was with us and a guy do people know who

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Speaker 1: that is? No, you've introduced him before, but it's a

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Speaker 1: great name. But he would develop such a thirst. He

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Speaker 1: would develop such a thirst, uh during his outings that

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Speaker 1: he offered, couldn't had to get home. Um. Another guy

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Speaker 1: catches a pike and he doesn't want and Dad wants it,

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Speaker 1: wants it, so Dad takes it and it freezes up

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Speaker 1: like how they do. And my dad says to me

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Speaker 1: hey and throws it to me and I catch it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and he says, you just caught a pike. And I

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Speaker 1: later told Ron Spring, who was a commercial bait fisherman.

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Speaker 1: Ron Spring made a living catching wigglers and digging worms

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Speaker 1: and catching mentals. I told Ron Spring, I caught a pike.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if I if it's a

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Speaker 1: good use of our time to do a post mortem

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Speaker 1: on those two lies. But that one, that one seems

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Speaker 1: far worse. It's just I'm putting myself, Yeah, that's real bad.

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Speaker 1: But I'm putting myself in the role not of the dad.

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Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in the role of the sun where

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Speaker 1: he's living with a lie. But there's the whole bit

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Speaker 1: that that that the dad actually did get a turkey,

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Speaker 1: and it's just, yeah, you know you didn't get ship

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Speaker 1: and then you made it. I'm not putting myself in

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Speaker 1: the role to dad. I'm putting myself in the role.

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Speaker 1: And I it would have cost him anything to come

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Speaker 1: clean and be like, look, here's a deal. This is

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Speaker 1: what I did, is what happened. Let's go get another

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Speaker 1: turkey next spring. What I would do is record this

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Speaker 1: and send it to him. And let him put it

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Speaker 1: together or tell him after he gets into their turkey,

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Speaker 1: because maybe it won't be like you know, Pops, you'll

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Speaker 1: you'll appreciate this. Okay, let's get on what we're fixing

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Speaker 1: the talk about. Oh, not one last thing. Rand Williams

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00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:49,719
Speaker 1: is here, yes, uh minus his pituitary gland. Yes. How

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00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: does it feel? Um? Are you as smart as he

336
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: used to be? No, I'm not really categorically not really. Yeah,

337
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: tell me more. Um, A lot of issues with memory

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00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: and um, short term and long term memory. Yeah. Oh,

339
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I was joking when I said that

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Speaker 1: we can cut this out. So you've been feeling you've

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00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: been since since it's been it's been a pretty uh,

342
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: it's been a pretty rough road, just ups and downs.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, for I mean, I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: symptoms that were pretty similar to like a traumatic brain injury. Really. Yeah,

345
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Speaker 1: I wasn't worth of that the bad that I asked.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm pretty upfront about it all. Are you replacement? Yeah,

347
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: I'm on. Um. I'm on a couple of different hormone

348
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: replacements like testosterone and thyroid hormone, and I take hydrocortison,

349
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: which replaces cortisol um. And then I've got stimulants, I've

350
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 1: got antidepressants, I've got sleeping pills, I've got the whole mix.

351
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: Are you serious? And and and growth hormone. So every

352
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: morning I'm like Barry Bonds really, yeah, yeah, it's the

353
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: real deal. Oh, I mean I knew that this is

354
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: a big deal, but I didn't know that you were.

355
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: Really I didn't know there's that much to it. Yeah, No,

356
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: it's been a pretty serious Uh, it's been been a

357
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: pretty serious um struggle. But better than the alternative. I'm

358
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: all good. Yeah, you're on the right side of the gray.

359
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: He did get big, he did get a big bear.

360
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, I got a big bear. Um still

361
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: hunting still, that's true. Yeah, I just meant in the

362
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: general sense, I have tags for this, not yourder get

363
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Speaker 1: in trouble. No, Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. I m

364
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: start a new job around that time, and I had

365
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Speaker 1: to postpone the start of that job for about a

366
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Speaker 1: month while I went to California and got surgery. And yeah,

367
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: so it's gonna learned a lot about the human body

368
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Speaker 1: and a lot about myself. And uh, yeah, I didn't

369
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: mean to make this so serious. No, you didn't. But

370
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: I guess what's happened is you being so casual about it.

371
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: It was like effective, Yeah, at least in the way

372
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: you're putting it forth. You were putting it forth to

373
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Speaker 1: your friends. That just seemed the casual about it. So

374
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: I thought it was more casual than it is. No,

375
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: I mean I've been uh, I mean I haven't. I

376
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: haven't held any secrets, um, but I haven't really broadcast

377
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: a whole lot of this stuff. I don't put any

378
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: of that on social media or anything like that. But

379
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to This is a little bit

380
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: worse than the UM. Well, yeah, no, I mean it's

381
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: some of the symptoms like I can't hide, you know,

382
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: like sometimes for a while there, I was like crying

383
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: all the time and just have very little control over

384
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: my emotions and all that stuff. So do you enjoy

385
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: movies more now? You know. I've always been a crier

386
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: at the cinema, so that that hasn't changed much. But yeah,

387
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: and it's pretty crazy all these chemicals and processes in

388
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: your body, and UM kind of take for granted that

389
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: at all works. But we're figuring it out, and luckily

390
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of help with that. So yeah,

391
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: anything else, No, I'm typing something. I just feel like

392
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm at the doctor's office my symptoms, and you're taking notes. Um,

393
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: if you read the doctor's office, another dude will come

394
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: in here a minute and ask you the saint set

395
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: of questions. And I didn't have a cope when I

396
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: like I was saying, like I was saying to the

397
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: other person that was just in here a minute ago. Yeah, No,

398
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's yeah, I mean just to some up.

399
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: It's been tough, but it's all good. We're figuring it out. Damn. Yeah, Yeah,

400
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: it's weird. Later I'll ask you if there's anything else

401
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: we can do to help. I don't think so. Um, well,

402
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: back when you had your pituitary glad you uh all

403
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: the people here, So the reason what what? What? One

404
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: of the commonalities I'm trying to say, one of the

405
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: commonalities that binds our friend Randall Williams and Doug during

406
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: my brother matt Ronello is that they were all uh

407
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: participants for good and bad um in the documentary film

408
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: that we recently released called Stars in the Sky and

409
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna we want to talk about this a little

410
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: bit and kind of do you know talk about the

411
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: making of an aftermath of and the themes that we

412
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: explore in the movie the movie if you uh, if

413
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: you want to go watch this and that that's what

414
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: this is really about. I learned that there's a writer,

415
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: Ian Fraser, and he always says that he's written a

416
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: lot of book books, and he says he likes the

417
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: very cleanly um in the beginning of his books, tell

418
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: people what a book was about. So he begins a

419
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: book with the line, this is a book about Indians.

420
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: You want if people know what they're getting into. Um.

421
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, the goal this here is that you will

422
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: go watch this movie somewhere to watch the movie, honest,

423
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: you have to go to you know you have. It's

424
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: called Stars in the Sky a Hunting Story. But what's

425
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: the website? Stars in this guy film? And it brings

426
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: you to Vimeo and you gotta pay some money. But

427
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: it's like really helpful to us if you do. You

428
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: gotta pay some money and you can stream it and

429
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: download it. Super helpful if you do. We started the

430
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: film like it was kind of such it's such a

431
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: weird story how it went because we started the film.

432
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: Do you even remember that's how I met Brody who

433
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: now works with us. When we film the first bit

434
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: of the film was several summers ago. Shifties in the

435
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: film and she's five, Well does that help? Well, it

436
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: was no more than five years ago. Oh, I see,

437
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: But but that was not even when we started making it. Oh,

438
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: I started making it several summers ago. You didn't film

439
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: me first, No, the first thing, like after me, you

440
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: filmed me in fifteen or sixteen? Was it really that

441
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: long ago? Oh? My god? It was right after we

442
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: did the first podcast, which was like June of and

443
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: we had we had already filmed parts of it then

444
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: because the first like, going into it, we knew we

445
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: were gonna do, we kind of knew we were gonna

446
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 1: do two things going into it. It was gonna be

447
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: this exploration of um sort of the mindset and conflicts

448
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: and contradictions and loves and hates and worries and joys

449
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: of contemporary America and hunters. Ah and I felt that,

450
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, when we started working on it, we felt

451
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: that to do this you needed to kind of show

452
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: like what a hunting trip looked like, to demonstrate to

453
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: people what it could be and how it could feel

454
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: and smell and look. And so the first thing we

455
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: did in the movie was we just went and recorded.

456
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: We went and filmed a hunt, and we filmed the

457
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: hunt in Alaska for Sia blacktail deer. And it was

458
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: meant to in some ways. If people watch Me Eat

459
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: Meat Eater or the TV show You kind of Get You,

460
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: you can almost kind of imagine what this hunt might be.

461
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: Though it's it's structured very differently, but just like this

462
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: kind of like through line. It starts with someone leaving,

463
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: leaving a building and striking off into the woods, and

464
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: the ends with someone coming back to a building. Um,

465
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: and what I thought when I when I mapped out

466
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: in the movie like the things I wanted to talk about,

467
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: the thing, the themes I wanted to explore and ask

468
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: various hunters from around the country their impressions of and uh,

469
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: I realized that all of these topics were things that

470
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: could pretty easily spring off of conversations that one might

471
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: have or thoughts that one might have, or spring off

472
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: actions and things that could happen on a hunt. So

473
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: this through line of this hunt winds up being winds

474
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: up presenting these conversation starters and later over the one

475
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: of being Over the years as we were able to

476
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: do it, we interviewed a great many people from all

477
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: around the country and asked them uh their particular thoughts

478
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: and this is kind of where some of the contradictions

479
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: came into place, their particular thoughts about these themes and

480
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: issues that come up, and then assemble this thing like

481
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: like a documentary film. And in an added voice I

482
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: wanted to bring in, it's it's I'd like to actually

483
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: want to get him on an added voice that I

484
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: brought in as a philosopher and an animal rights ethicist

485
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: named Robert Jones. And he's a steady line as being

486
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: someone who's not connected to hunting and is actually adversarial

487
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: to hunting, like opposes hunting outright. And he also speaks

488
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: about these different themes we did we we want to

489
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: interview in add that. He's definitely he's definitely a star

490
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: of the dock. I think that very credible. He really

491
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: adds a lot. You know, it's a very smart move

492
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: I think on your part on directing that. But I

493
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: mean just to have both view points. You know, everybody

494
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: that I talked to is like, I mean, good thing

495
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: you had him in there, you know, one thing you

496
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: always get from people is you always get get people.

497
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: We can kind this a lot because when you're like

498
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: dealing with the ideas, people get angry when you give

499
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: someone a voice. They think that giving someone a voice

500
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: in media, the giving someone a voice is tacit approval

501
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: of what that person has to say, or that you

502
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: by giving someone a voice, you endorse what they have

503
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: to say. And I hear about it a little bit

504
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: for his inclusion in the movie, like why would you

505
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: give voice to him? And then when we had Rob

506
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: Bishop on the podcast and like like we have a

507
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: pretty consistent pro public lands, like like you know, as

508
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: a company whatever, we have a pretty consistent pro public

509
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: lands philosophy. And Rob Bishop is um I don't want

510
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: to call him anti public lands at all, but he's

511
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, uh opposes a lot of the things I

512
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: believe in around public lands management. And people are like,

513
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: I can't believe you get Rob Bishop a voice. Like

514
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: Rob Bishop is the Chairman of the House Natural was

515
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: the chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee. I don't

516
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: know that he's lacking a voice, Like I wasn't like

517
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: I went and found someone who had no way to

518
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy could talk to anyone wants anytime

519
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: he wants, and this animal rights guy as a professor

520
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: at a school in California, doesn't lack a voice, but

521
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: it want to be in one of That was probably

522
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: one of my favorite interviews that we did for that

523
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: because it was so it was really challenging to It

524
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: was challenging the kind like if we were sparring um.

525
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: It was challenging. He brought up some really challenging ideas.

526
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: So if uh, like Richard Spencer R Kelly haunted, would

527
00:33:48,800 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: you have them on UM's It's a really good question, Like,

528
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: knowing what we now know about R Kelly, if we

529
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: were doing a film, you know why I probably wouldn't.

530
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't because what he's most known for, which

531
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: is sex abuse of minors in the case R Kelly,

532
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: what he's most known for, isn't what I would be

533
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: asking about. It was so peripheral to the conversation that

534
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: that aspect of their personality or that aspect of their

535
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: biogopy would be this this like really weighty thing in

536
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, we just sat down and did an

537
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: interview with We did an interview with Bo Jackson about

538
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: his relationship with hunting. Um. And as part of that,

539
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: you can imagine that we talked a lot about his

540
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: career as an athlete, because it would sort of be

541
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: the it's like weird thing to have not come up,

542
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room. Yeah, and so in that case,

543
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: I see, like that's good Devil's advocating. But in that way, yeah,

544
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: I was trying to put you in a spot. I

545
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: was just legitimately it was legitimately curious. Oh yeah, but

546
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: but this dude was fascinating. Um, Like his main thing

547
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: is that that the main point he tries to get across.

548
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: You have to watch because I could, like I kind

549
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: of cheery rather than like picking moments where he didn't

550
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: do great. I picked I felt like I that I

551
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: should say, ah, that we working on it. Kind of

552
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: picked his best points, you know. And and he countered

553
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: like he has really good counters for things where hunters

554
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: love to Hunters love to talk about it's natural, right, Oh,

555
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: Man's always hunted. If we didn't hunt, we wouldn't be

556
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: here today. It's natural. And he brings up there are

557
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are natural fratricide, matricide, right,

558
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: that have always occurred. Does that it's yeah, does that

559
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: mean it's like, does that in and of itself in

560
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: an endorsement of the activity? Right? That's not it's not

561
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: a vindication of hunting that's always been done. I mean

562
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: we've always, like in the Grand in the like from

563
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: a historical historical perspective, we've always not driven cars, you know. Yeah,

564
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: So let me finish my I want to finish my

565
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: little preamble here. Then were gettato a couple of other things,

566
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: cause Janni has Yanni has some uh he's thought about

567
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: how how to discuss this, and he's got a good

568
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: idea for it. But the preamble being but I had

569
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: this idea that it felt very cohesive. Um, and then

570
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: we talked to so many people, and then you run

571
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: into this problem where how long is something? So then

572
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: you in the end you have ninety minutes or so

573
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: hundred minutes, and you go through the very very painful

574
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: process of narrowing this down to where you have a

575
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: hundred plus hours of interviews with people that you need

576
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: to fit into one minutes, and then you wind up

577
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: with something where someone would watch it and not. This

578
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: isn't saying something is good or bad. It's just a

579
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: fact of life. Someone would watch it and never have

580
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: and never have any idea what it was, how you

581
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: framed it in your head, because it only makes sense, right,

582
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: the framing of it only makes sense to someone who

583
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: felt that they were seeing like a process that they

584
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: were trying to put in place. When it's all done,

585
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: you can't expect that people would watch you go like, oh,

586
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: I see what you're doing, you know, because so much

587
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: falls away, Like when we started this show that you're

588
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: listening to right now, I had like a precise idea

589
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: of what I was trying to do. No one has

590
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: ever written and said, you know what, I see what

591
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: you did there. It's just it lives in your head

592
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: only you know. But the the guiding through line is

593
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: just these these these themes, And we're gonna ask you

594
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: guys a little bit about your feelings about these themes

595
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: and thoughts that you might have had um and and

596
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: you could speak to like kind of like what you

597
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: meant and what was represented in the movie, or if

598
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: things that you wish you said and hadn't said. And

599
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: one thing I want to start with with Matt and

600
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: and this was like in there almost up to the end,

601
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's in there. It's not in there.

602
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: It was the ending for a long time. For a

603
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: long time, the ending of the movie, almost the ending

604
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: of the movie was you saying, if you woke me

605
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: up a hundred years from now is how many years

606
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: he had said, if you woke me up hundred years

607
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: from now and told me there was no hunting, I

608
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't care. M hm. I

609
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: don't remember saying that, but but yeah, I guess I

610
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: still I still that still were saying, I don't believe

611
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: in hunting for hunting's sake. I'm just stuck being this. Yeah, yeah,

612
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that. I don't think that

613
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: hunting makes someone a better person. Mm hmm um. If

614
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: you want somebody to be a better person, there's better, other,

615
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: more constructive uses of their time. It's like I was

616
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: going to advocate for something after that that's gonna carry

617
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: on after I'm gone. It wouldn't be hunting. I mean,

618
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: reading books maybe, or volunteering, you know, being a good

619
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: civil servant. It's far more important to me than the

620
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: future of hunting whence I'm gone. If I if I

621
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: care about hunting at all after I'm gone. It's because

622
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: you know, I it's I guess it would be. I'd

623
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: have to be convinced, and I partially am that it's

624
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: it's good for wildlife conservation. I guess there's part of

625
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: me that wants to look down from the heavens and

626
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: see wild animals running around still, But yeah, I don't.

627
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't see hunting is making people better. When we

628
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: were assembling the movie, we took all of the people

629
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: that we interviewed and asked them about their hopes and

630
00:40:53,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: fears for the future. Everyone was really when when talking

631
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: about like a future everyone um, except for two individuals,

632
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: my two brothers. We're the only people out of everyone

633
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: we talked to who didn't in some way worry about

634
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: what would be lost. Hm. And these are two the

635
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: people that I know that like it the most. Yeah,

636
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: I uh, I just watched Dr Mary for the first

637
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: time a couple of nights ago, and I do remember, like,

638
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm proud of the way I described it, that I'm

639
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm stuck being a hunter. I would, I mean I

640
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: would just I would have an identity crisis that forty

641
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: eight years of age would be just kind of jarring.

642
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: If all of a sudden I stopped hunting, you know,

643
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: I don't know what I do or how I would

644
00:41:53,320 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 1: relate to what might what would preoccupy my thoughts, you know. So, um,

645
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: that's why I guess I hunt my kids recently. I

646
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: brought us up a couple of times, I think, but

647
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: my kids were recently asking about like why we had

648
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: to go? Um, I think it was ice fishing on

649
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: a cold day, and like why do we have to

650
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: go ice fishing? It's so cold? So well, you know,

651
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: I can think of a bunch of reasons, but one

652
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: would be you'll get to hang out with way cooler

653
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: people if you learn how to do this. And so

654
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: when I think, when I think about, like if someone says, oh,

655
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: it's gonna be in fifth years, it will be gone,

656
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to have a huh.

657
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 1: It would like really make me sad. But a lot

658
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: of it would be nostalgia. Nostalgia for like a verse,

659
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: like the version of it that I experienced and imagine

660
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: that other people would experience. Yeah, yeah, there's I mean,

661
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: so many of my positive memories about hunting our about

662
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: the people I hunt with. I mean that is, it's

663
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: the it's um doing these adventurous things with UM people

664
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: I care about. I don't like. I don't like it

665
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: as a means for meeting new people very much. I

666
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: just have this small group of people that I hunt with.

667
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna make friends with somebody, I don't want

668
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: it to be like through hunting. Probably that's it's in

669
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: a vehicle for forming friendships for me really, although like

670
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of my closest friends I've

671
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: met through hunting, but I don't want to. I don't

672
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: use it in that way. You know, like if if

673
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: you're at a wedding reception and someone looks across the

674
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: room and says, oh, you know that guy likes the

675
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: hunt a lot, you don't feel like a gravitational point.

676
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: I want to talk to him about it, and then

677
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: but if if he's if he's, I mean, there's just

678
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: some first first out and show me all the big

679
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: ship they got, and then I'm gonna be jealous, and

680
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,479
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna wish that you would go they'd go away.

681
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: You know, you could always I met Doug and Janice

682
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: through hunting, and I could see very good friends of mine,

683
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I just really think this out. Well,

684
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: you know what you always on the conversation is gonna

685
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: go wrong when you had like and when you had

686
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: a wedding reception and you go and talk to the

687
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: guy that someone says like the hunt, you'd be like, oh, yeah,

688
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: what you has been what have you been hunting? You're like, oh, yeah,

689
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: we've been getting a lot of turkeys used twelve gauge. Always,

690
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: you always know that should be the twentiest thing, you know,

691
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I had a guy. If it's

692
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: not like, oh yeah, where do you guys go, I

693
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: had a guy on the ranch where my the my

694
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: wife co owns and works Dude ranch. Another co owner.

695
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: He likes to careful now he likes to talk hunt

696
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: once in a while. Careful. You should have set it

697
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: up different. Yeah, yo, thank you, thank you. Man. I

698
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: would not. I wasn't even thinking about that. I guess

699
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: I've grown comfortable with this podcasting thing. I just think

700
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: it's conversation. Yeah, you know, No, you're right, You're absolutely right.

701
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: It would. It could be devastating. I don't know, we'll

702
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: cut it out. I don't know if she listens to

703
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: this or not. We'll cut it out. Um no, no, no, no,

704
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: you don't need to cut it out. I can keep

705
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: this part in. Yeah, really, yeah, I'm willing. I mean,

706
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: we didn't don't even say where I was really going

707
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: with it. There's an everything you say in the movie,

708
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: and you do say this in the movie, and I

709
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: love the line what I just I was now I

710
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: want to know you can ask him later. There was

711
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: another there was another person, different in a different locale,

712
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: and they said, they said to me exactly, you say,

713
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: when when when? Then your armor? The weapon is the

714
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: first thing that comes up. It's just a bad sign

715
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: of renversation is gonna go. And uh, because I just

716
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: think of weapons is something that you used to slow

717
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: down animals so that you can cook and eat them.

718
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: I don't give a funk about that ship, you know, halftime,

719
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: I can't even remember what calumber my goddamn rightful. Um

720
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: so uh he said, so what do you used to

721
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 1: kill them? And he wanted me to go over fifty five?

722
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: You know, I said, a shotgun. Your ship's a shotgun

723
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: with bullets, and um, the thing you say in the movie,

724
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: and I love it, and people it's like the one

725
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: line that people bring up the people like the most

726
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: in the movie. And I don't even know what you

727
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: really mean by I mean, I know what you mean,

728
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: but but you're saying, Uh, you said if if used

729
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: to have cabbages head legst them too. Yeah, I think that.

730
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: So is it that you like to hunt things that

731
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: have legs? Well, I like to hunt things that are motile.

732
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean I also does that word mean that they move? Yeah?

733
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: Not mobile? Well? Yeah, I think it's just another way

734
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: of saying the same thing. I'm checking. There's also well,

735
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: you know what a one animal? It doesn't move? Is

736
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: there an organism that doesn't move? Is cecil? It's a

737
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: cecil organism. No, you're right, capable of motion. Yeah, and

738
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: I like I like to gather cecil organisms. I just

739
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: gathered some horse mushrooms the other day. How you've been

740
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: doing a while asparagus kicking ass? It's been really, really good.

741
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: My PA's been stinking every day. That's good. Can you

742
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: tell people a hot tip and find a while to asparagus?

743
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: You taught me? Oh uh, you spot it driving down

744
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: the river in your boat at full tilt. You gotta

745
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: look for last year's stems. Do you have it in Wisconsin. Yeah, ditch,

746
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: we we have that too, but no, that, yeah, is

747
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty abundant there um if you know where

748
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: to go. You know, yeah, your riverboat isn't fast, but

749
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: you've I've seen you spot it at full tilt. Oh yeah.

750
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 1: And and and you know I can also spot green

751
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: new stems full tilt. Really yeah, I just kind of

752
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: get a search image in your brain. Tell them about

753
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: to tell them about last year's growth, because this is

754
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: a hot til. Yeah, so you look for the last

755
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: year's stalks, as you know, and it puts off a

756
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: branch at a perfect, perfect ninety perfect perpendicular to where

757
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: the branch with the stem creates two perfect forty five

758
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: degree angles. And that's key because there's a lot of

759
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: other plants that superficially look like you know, the death

760
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: stems look superficially like. But the way that branch comes

761
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: off that stem like you could square a house with that. Something.

762
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: Bit man, I've been finding something like I don't know why,

763
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: but it seems like at the tail end of the

764
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: season they get fatter, and I've been finding some freaking

765
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: quarter pounders lately. Figure around as a silver dollar. It's

766
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: like a steak knife. Yeah, it's just as good, right,

767
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: And that's interesting. And I realized that because I got

768
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: some that was growing in a garden from Doug's wife.

769
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: That's the easiest way to find it is just to

770
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: actually propagate it. And when she first over in that

771
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: part of my garden over there, when she first busted

772
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: him out, I'm kind of like, oh, those big old things,

773
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: because when you like, I never buy asparagous it looks

774
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: like that in the store because it's gross. Oh, but

775
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: out of the ground, man, you can get like a

776
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: carrot stick. Yeah, I mean just unbelievable the difference, Like

777
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: you said, just as tender and as tasty as the

778
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: little guy. It's all non native, right, yeah, it's all

779
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: like fair It's like Farrell house cats, but fairrell asparagus.

780
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: So uh if cabbages had legs that hunt them too, well.

781
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: I think that Dan Doty was there that day and

782
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: he asked me, what is it about meat? And that's

783
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: what precipitated all right, So I guess there. I don't

784
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: want to, I just just seemed to be there, like

785
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: that's all about meat. It's like, I love to eat

786
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: all kinds of food. I love vegetables, I love. It's

787
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: just so yeah, that's that's the product of hunting. The

788
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: food product of hunting just so happens to be meat.

789
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 1: But if if cabbages ran around the woods, I would

790
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: freaking love to go hunt me a cabbage. You don't like,

791
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: not that you won't do it like you're eating restaurants

792
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,919
Speaker 1: Like the rest of us, you don't relish buying meat. Well,

793
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: with one exception, my it just so happens that my

794
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: three favorite foods are um conventionally raised meat products. Tell

795
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: me more do um bologny No, chicken wings with ranch,

796
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: chicken wings with blue cheese, and chicken wings are my

797
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: three favorite foods. Well, that changed because your old favorite

798
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: food was pizza and your second, No, your favorite food

799
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: was hot wings. Your second favorite food was pizza. And

800
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: then one day, this is a big deal, this is

801
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: a big moment. I like the story. One day you

802
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: go into a restaurant and they had hot wing pizza,

803
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: which was not and you ordered it and were surprised

804
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: that it wasn't good and it really likes shook it

805
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: up too much, And remember how delighted you were. It

806
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: was like the first time we when I'd done I

807
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: think Nita was there and we were in Ennis maybe

808
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: and we went to some random, you know restaurant that's

809
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 1: that was the first year was opened, probably last year

810
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: was open. And you looked at the menu and you're like,

811
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: this is my kind of place. All was was like pizza,

812
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: hot dogs, wings, and you were one of everything and

813
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: ate one of everything and just happy it's convenient. Do

814
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: like I do like the bar food we and another

815
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: thing I really like. And I just gotta say this

816
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: and I'll stop talking so much, But I really like

817
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: I'm asking you questions right now. I really like I'm

818
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: working around the way you don't deal poker. I'm going

819
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: to Okay. I like, um uh, some thin sliced turkey

820
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: on wonder bread with a bunch of mayo and cranberry sauce,

821
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: like Thanksgiving leftovers. That's a favorite food. So you've expressed

822
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: like you don't relish buying meat. I don't buy him.

823
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't buy me because it's it's a it's a

824
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: major treat and my wife, but you don't you go

825
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: buy wife ways probably a hundred and what do you

826
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: think thirty pounds? Yeah, she's one thirty. He eats as

827
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: much food or more food than I do. And I'm

828
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: not exaggerating that woman can freaking monster truck some chicken wings,

829
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of like something we do together.

830
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: So so, uh, what I'm getting at here? Let me

831
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 1: tell you where I'm going with this. You don't relish

832
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: buying meat, No, I don't. I don't buy me except

833
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: when I go to a restaurant. Yeah, and a lot

834
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: of that, like it comes from a couple of places,

835
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: I think. And you've expressed this, and I'm sure you're like,

836
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're feelings about it evolved and changed over

837
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: the years, because all of our feelings evolved and changed

838
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: over the years. But I think that you are a

839
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: naturally very frugal person um, and you would never be like, well,

840
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: why would I buy something when I have like an

841
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: approximation of it in my freezer? And you're not any like, sure,

842
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: it's more convenient that it's all like ready to roll

843
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: and thought out, but you'll go home and thought helped

844
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 1: meet out and your microwaiting and eat it because you're frugal.

845
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: But there's also a little bit of ethics mixed in there.

846
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: There's some ethics and there's also another dimension that I

847
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: tried to explain um when I was interviewed for the

848
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: documentary didn't make the cut. And I can see why

849
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: because I wasn't very clear and I probably won't be

850
00:54:52,440 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: now either. But there's this child like it's from child hood.

851
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: This is where this feeling emerged. Was in childhood for me,

852
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:12,280
Speaker 1: this giddy sense of getting something from free, to eat

853
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 1: from nature, and that is an abiding component of what

854
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: drives me to haunt and gather is in fish? Is

855
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: that what that giddy feeling of, like you doing it

856
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: yourself and getting uh your food from nature for free.

857
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's like a thing that I've been

858
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: thinking about. We've been eating a lot of Morrel's from

859
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: dogs Farm that he picked. Morels are good. A right,

860
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 1: they're good, but they're not that good. They're not that good.

861
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean they're great, but people's enthusiasm for listen, listen,

862
00:55:52,360 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: they ain't chicken wings no here. I like, Okay, I

863
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: like Morrel's, love Morrells, but peoples and people who look

864
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: for and find Morrell's have an enthusiasm that exceeds the

865
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:20,439
Speaker 1: flavor of the morrell Yeah, it's I it's like, it's

866
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: not like they're like, dude, come may, I'm eating a

867
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: shipload of Morrell's, whether I got to buy them or not.

868
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: That's not true people that hunt Morrel's. If all of

869
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: a sudden there was a drought and no Morrel's came up,

870
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: It's not that they're gonna be driving around calling to

871
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: stores to find Morrel's because they have to have morels.

872
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 1: They morels are great because you find the sun's bitches

873
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,479
Speaker 1: growing out of the dirt. Yeah, and then they're great,

874
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: and they're what I'm saying. It's like, you can't un

875
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: you can't untank, like you can't disconnect the two. I

876
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: remember when I did. I did a deep dive on

877
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: mushrooms for a number of years, three or four years,

878
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: when you were infatuating, learning a lot of different SPECIs.

879
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: You got to where you knew more about mushrooms than

880
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: anyone I knew. And I remember learning that they have

881
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: no calories, and that was very disappointing to me because

882
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, being it really so this isn't like

883
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: getting a food item anymore. UM have protein in them?

884
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: Oh dude, it really it's interesting. They shure taste like

885
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: they what they taste like freaking meat man when you

886
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: put a little oh good yeah flower on them and

887
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: brown them in a bunch of butter. And I'm like, good,

888
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: do you guys see what I'm saying. I'm not this

889
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: in your morals? Man, Okay, well let me see this,

890
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: Doug was less than you bought aom Morrell. I have

891
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: never bought m call and I've never sold a morale either.

892
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: I've given a lot of them away. And I agree

893
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: completely what with what you're saying about the fascination with

894
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: going out there. And I mean, I was so frustrated

895
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: this spring because I'm looking and I'm looking, and you know,

896
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: I'm going one out almost daily because the conditions are

897
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: right and I've got great spots. And my wife and

898
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: I were out looking for him, and and uh we

899
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: we came around and we had taken a pretty good

900
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: hike and ironically found this big batch that that you saw,

901
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: and then you got some right behind the barn, I mean,

902
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and fifty yards from the house,

903
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: and uh, I had left that tree alone, but we

904
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: came around there and it's just this fascinating sort of

905
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: magical thing to come there and see this little village

906
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: of of these little little village, you know, a little

907
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: scaring and and you sem and then you look away

908
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: for a second and you look back and okay, I

909
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: know there was one there? Where did it go? And

910
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: we we spent Trish and I spent an hour and

911
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: a half. They're picking Morrel's and just keep looking and

912
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, and and Trish said, we picked a hundred

913
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: and moreles there and she said thank you for everyone

914
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: that she got the earth well in the I mean,

915
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: there's it's the magic of it. It's it is. You

916
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: can take somebody that's never seen him morell, never eating

917
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: him morell morell hunting, and they'll get that like that

918
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: about it. And with those things too, Like that that

919
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: makes an extra special is that you can't farm them, right,

920
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: something wild about them? Yeah, they're wild. It's like people

921
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: get excited about the asparagus. But you can go to

922
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: the store and buy them, but it's still toials of

923
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: times cooler to find it. You can grow. They completely

924
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: defy cultivation. I think that I think that when you

925
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: see Morrell, it's wild grown. I don't think you can

926
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 1: I don't think yeah, I don't think you can cost effectively,

927
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: But I think I know that you can buy these

928
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: little pots where you water them. And that's my understand

929
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: is no one's figured out a way to like make

930
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: money could state somewhout You just your relationship, which is

931
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: like the meat, right, and you talk about like isn't

932
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: like the meat because I hunt cabbages? Um. But then

933
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: you have some pasture land at your house and you

934
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: guys raise up you and your bodies raise up some lambs.

935
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: We did for a while, Yeah, and then you know

936
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: you'd go out and have to dispatch, say the lamb,

937
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: and you didn't like that, hated it. No, I know

938
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: I'd not relish that. There was like and then I was,

939
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: let me do, let me lay one more part on.

940
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: Then you can talk about the whole experience because you

941
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: don't like that, kind of dread it. And then but

942
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: then you really enjoy the lamb meat. M hmm. So

943
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: is that connected to hunting or is that as different

944
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: from hunting is picking asparagus? You know what I mean? Like, like,

945
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: what is that in the movie we see your place

946
01:00:53,640 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: and you're kind of a little livestock area there. Um.

947
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: So the raising the sheep. I was doing that with

948
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: some friends that they hunt a little bit but not

949
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: a lot. And they got young families and they were

950
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: using the meat and I would take a little bit

951
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: of it, but it was more to encourage them to

952
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: spend time at my house and just like something to

953
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: do with my community of people, you know, my friends. Um.

954
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 1: I think that when I kill an animal hunting, it's

955
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: like it's it's usually after a tremendous amount of work.

956
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: So the feeling of accomplishment kind of kind of offsets

957
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: the sadness a little bit, you know, kind of overrides

958
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: it a little bit, because there's so much work involved

959
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: in finally getting something. But when you kill domestic animals,

960
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: just the sadness without that other component to it. Does

961
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: that make any sense? I puzzle over with the because

962
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: people like, oh, you'd like to kill, but then when

963
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: you go out to like then maybe some people don't,

964
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: but anyone that I have that we're some livestock, but

965
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: I know they might really love to hunt, but never man,

966
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: anyone who's really excited to go out and shoot the pig. Right. Yeah,

967
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: I like hunting right up to the point where I

968
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, and then I stopped liking it, to

969
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: the point where the animal is starting to become me

970
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: really yeah. Huh. The other that that, you know, if

971
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: you're tracking something or have to finish something off as

972
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: too nerve racking and and sad you're watching the life

973
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: go out of something. I know the sadness is really

974
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: because I've seen so many people cry but then be

975
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: really glad that they did it. But I don't. I don't,

976
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: And I know people talk about it, and I feel

977
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: like I've even paid some lip service to it. But

978
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: when I really think about I'm really honest about there's not.

979
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: The sadness is only when it goes bad, when you

980
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: make a mistake, then awful. But no to see something

981
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: go bam down on the ground, never sadness. Never, it's

982
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: the only one is ugly. Um, Doug, one of the

983
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: themes Matt was themeless, mass conversation was steamless, meaning I

984
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: asked you about all the themes, but your perspectives are

985
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: just interesting perspectives. But Doug is like part, like Doug's

986
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: role in the film as part of a theme. Okay, Um,

987
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: did you feel manipulated by the movie? Not at all?

988
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: Did you feel manipulated? No? I felt like I hope

989
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: you weren't because I was. I was kind of hoping

990
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: that that's who you were. I mean, you look, no,

991
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: let me tell you what. Let me tell the way

992
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: in which Doug seemed like Doug to me. No, it's Doug,

993
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: it's Doug. It's Doug. Absolutely. But if you were manipulated,

994
01:03:53,800 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: the manipulation occurred with what's said before you're segment, what's

995
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: said before your profile piece, and and the first sentence

996
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: that comes out of your mouth in the movie, which

997
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: was not the first sentence that came out of your

998
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: mouth when we sat down to interview. So there was

999
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: a manipulation of what you said, and there was a

1000
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: manipulation of when you said it, the amount of emphasis

1001
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: you might put on it, and then to have it

1002
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: be the first thing out of your mouth really sets

1003
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: that teas up a point. And it starts out with

1004
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: the animal ethicist Doug. Segment is kicked off by the

1005
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: animal ethicist and animal rights activists who says the most

1006
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: egregious form of hunting, mm hmmm, I know where you yeah,

1007
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: And then the next sentence you hear is Doug saying yeah,

1008
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: I think you said. Yeah, I guess I'm a trophy

1009
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: hunter or yeah, I do some trophy hunting. Which I'm

1010
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: gonna let you go. I want to, I just want to.

1011
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 1: I just wanted that scene a little bit. And then

1012
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: the movie tells the story of a particular deer and

1013
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: the way it would the way I feel that it

1014
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 1: might have been taken by you to be slightly manipulative.

1015
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: Is it takes your life story and family story and

1016
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: the death of your brother, um to sort of serve

1017
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 1: this thing of to sort of make this point that

1018
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: when you go into a person's house and you see

1019
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: a dead deer hanging on their wall without asking them,

1020
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: you will never know. You might have assumptions about what

1021
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: that thing represents, and assumptions about what it stands for

1022
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: and what it's supposed to mean and what it's supposed

1023
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: to make you, as the looker feel, but you will

1024
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: never really know when you look at something dead hanging

1025
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: on someone's wall. Is kind of what even like your

1026
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: story is so beautiful as a free stay thing, but

1027
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it it's taken to service that point, like, hey,

1028
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: let's yeah, let's talk about a dead deer on the wall.

1029
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: I know, just the fucking deer that dog's house. Um. No,

1030
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: I didn't feel manipulated, but by it at all. And

1031
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: in fact, I think before we even started to roll camera,

1032
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: you said that you had been speaking with this fellow

1033
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: Robert Jones said his name and who I was my favorite.

1034
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: He was my favorite person in the in the film,

1035
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: I mean, other than everybody in this room. But um,

1036
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: it was a good save. But I mean because I

1037
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: like the way he asked the questions or made the points,

1038
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: and I couldn't disagree with his ideas. Um, it was

1039
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: more the exploring of him that I was more interested in. Um.

1040
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: And in the case of the of of that deer

1041
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: you had before the cameras rolled, you said, uh, so

1042
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: we were just talking to this animal ethicist and and

1043
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: uh and you said so he said the most egregious

1044
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: thing is trophy hunting and and and you said, well yeah,

1045
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: before the cameras rolled in the bar, sitting in the bar, yeah,

1046
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: And and you remember the deer hanging on the wall

1047
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: full of deer, I said, well, there's a bunch of

1048
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: trophies right there, like you know, what's the um And

1049
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 1: we didn't talk about those deer at all. We talked

1050
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: about a particular deer in the story behind it. And

1051
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: my it's interesting because one of the things my wife

1052
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: said about about the movie is that you were a

1053
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: younger man when this was made, because of the time

1054
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: had passed and and not only was he a younger man,

1055
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: I was you know, my my thinking. She was saying,

1056
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: you were a younger man. Your wife said you you

1057
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: were a younger man. Yeah, she's noticed that. That That wasn't

1058
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: as great feeling frisky after watching um anyway, I don't

1059
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: remember exactly I watched it the second time, remember you

1060
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: looking like that? I watched it the second time the

1061
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: other night with my daughter in Chicago, and um, that

1062
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: was a really interesting thing too. So how things have

1063
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: evolved for me since? Um as we tell as as

1064
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: the as you tell in the In the movie, UM

1065
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: my brother, my younger, my late brother, Matthew, UM and

1066
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: I had talked about deer management, and um it was

1067
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: conservation based deer management, but really a part of it was,

1068
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, we're sort of we've been killing with these

1069
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: little forkis, you know, the thing that we get a

1070
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: basket full of and um uh and we had started

1071
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: talking about deer management, things that we could do better,

1072
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: and you know, habitat work and all that sort of thing.

1073
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: And then and then he died tragically, and um, I

1074
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: kept that that ideal alive and uh we I think

1075
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: we did a good job of of of conservation, you know,

1076
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: dear management, and it sort of culminated in the fact

1077
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: that I got to kill it here. And uh, it

1078
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: was you know, as I said in the movie, it

1079
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: was sort of a remembrance of that of that whole process.

1080
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, oh, yeah, we manipulated our landscape and

1081
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: we let all these bucks go and then all these

1082
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: things happened and then and and it wasn't that. It

1083
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: was much more. I mean, the first thing I thought

1084
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: about when I killed that here it was him and

1085
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: uh and and what we had done and how close

1086
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: it was to where that at all happened and uh

1087
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: and so it was really the remembrance of a whole

1088
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: the whole um group of things that happened in over

1089
01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:00,839
Speaker 1: a period of time. And and then it wasn't that important.

1090
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: I mean that deers is real important symbolically. But what

1091
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: I've learned since is that uh, or acted on since,

1092
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:14,959
Speaker 1: is that the conservation and was way more important. Um

1093
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: any of those restrictions or attitudes that we had about

1094
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: not you know, shooting younger deer. That's all gone now

1095
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: because the thing that's more important now is conserving to me,

1096
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: conserving the resource and doing the right thing for the species.

1097
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: And um, far down that road we want to go.

1098
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: But because of where our farm is located, that's you know,

1099
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: it's a part of it. And so to me it

1100
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 1: was just sort of people you're talking about because they're

1101
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: gonna confused if now, Oh yeah, I'm sorry, but but

1102
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: it brings up, it brings up the NFC, the point

1103
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,600
Speaker 1: where you and I find it's all the time, like

1104
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: you know, you always leaving these these sort of time

1105
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: stamps by things you say. But then earlier I mentioned

1106
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: to Matt how people evolve over time, and and your

1107
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 1: understanding of yourself and understanding of things around you change,

1108
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: and you try to Um, you know, I have these

1109
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: certain like things I feel consistently throughout life, and I

1110
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: explained them in a way, and then I started to

1111
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: realize that that I know that the thing is there,

1112
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: like let's say there's some like undeniable that there's some

1113
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 1: undeniable truth, Okay, they can't be debated, that it's there,

1114
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 1: Like there's an objective reality that's there. And and I

1115
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: feel that that that objective reality stays constant through life.

1116
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: And I'll look at that objective reality and I'll say

1117
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 1: to people, um, you know why that's that way, right,

1118
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: it's that way because and I'll explain why it's that way.

1119
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: And then ten years ago by the objective reality is

1120
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: still there and I'll say, you know why I think

1121
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: it's that way, and it will be different, and some

1122
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: people will be like, well, you used to think, and

1123
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm just like yeah, and I came up with a

1124
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:59,839
Speaker 1: long to ago me like I used to ship my diapers.

1125
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: I used to ship my diapers. You usually say it

1126
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: like this, I used to shoot ship my diapers, but

1127
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 1: things change. It became when comfortable. No, that's not it.

1128
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: That's not it. The devil's in the details with this.

1129
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I used to shoot ship my diapers too,

1130
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: but things change, that's how you say. And you may

1131
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: well still again reality. So point being, there's a saying,

1132
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,600
Speaker 1: what's that saying? It's uh, once a man, twice a boy, Yeah,

1133
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: that's good. Or what walks on um for legs in

1134
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: the morning, two legs in the afternoon, and three legs.

1135
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: That's what you had to say. That's what uh was

1136
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: the Oedipus. I think you're right when he like Oedipus,

1137
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: his deal was we talked about the support Oedipus, didn't

1138
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 1: we up. This deal was he was raised not by

1139
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: his actual parents, but he didn't know that they were

1140
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: in his parents. And he goes to a soothsayer. The

1141
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: soothsayer says the Oedipus, oh, you know what's gonna happen

1142
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: to you. You'll kill your dad and marry your ma.

1143
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: But he doesn't know that. He thinks he lives with

1144
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 1: his parents, so he splits. He splits to to to

1145
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 1: to get away from his thing, and then winds up

1146
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: in some crazy town. And to get into the town,

1147
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: you gotta answer a riddle. And he answers that riddle,

1148
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: and the guy that gave him the riddle dies and

1149
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 1: he kills him, and he goes into town, gets in

1150
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: a fight with the guy, kills him, marries the gal

1151
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 1: is dad. Ma Um, that's where the riddle came from. Well,

1152
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: but what I was trying to get at was this,

1153
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 1: that's the riddle that he had to solve, not what

1154
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get your time stamp and in this movie,

1155
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: moviesn't not in the digital as I'll live forever in

1156
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: some form or another. Um, your time stamp is a

1157
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 1: guy that's like interested in growing big, huge giant bucks

1158
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: because in your mind, like big huge giant box are

1159
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: emblematic of like a healthy deer population. And then chronic wasting.

1160
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,839
Speaker 1: And then the movie ends and you get really concerned

1161
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 1: about chronic wasting disease. And it emerges that that like

1162
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: a leading theory on the spread of chronic wasting diseases,

1163
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: the deer most likely to go all over to damn

1164
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 1: place um and that's young Bocks. And then you start

1165
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 1: the you kind of have an attitude was trying to

1166
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: lower deer numbers in your area because that's the game

1167
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: agency objective too, is just the drive deer numbers down, down,

1168
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 1: down to slow the spread of chronic wasting disease. So

1169
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: had we made a movie about you, uh five years

1170
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: two years after we did right completely except the thing

1171
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 1: so there you are saying stuff that you don't even

1172
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: believe anymore. Not true. He believe those things that the

1173
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: circumstances were still the same. But the what was the

1174
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: no appreciate this now the thing that's consistent throughout it,

1175
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: and you and I've had this conversation before, and we've

1176
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: talked about it on the show, and we're talked about

1177
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: on podcasts we've had you know, is that it's a

1178
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 1: part it's the conservation of of the area and a

1179
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 1: part of what we were doing in growing you know,

1180
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: bigger and older buckses that we were not going to

1181
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: population called big huge giant bucks doug. Uh, I really

1182
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: don't like that expression, but um, so, you know, more

1183
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: mature whatever were It was a part of, oh, we've

1184
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: got a population problem, and that was expressing itself in

1185
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 1: our in our woods. Um and and you know, we're

1186
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: there was overbrows and we're trying to regenerate oaks and

1187
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: so um and we're killing a bunch of deer, but

1188
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: we happen to be targeting Uh does more. And then

1189
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm learning why you can't really stockpile box. It's not

1190
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,600
Speaker 1: like you can just turn the whole farm into a

1191
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: whole bunch of bucks. And because you know, and then

1192
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: it's you know, and then the other thing is interesting

1193
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: about big giant bucks is once there starts to be

1194
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: a lot of them around, it's not that unusual. It's

1195
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: not that special anymore. Deer are special to me, um,

1196
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: and the fascination of seeing them in the woods. But anyway,

1197
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 1: so it was conservation based and that has been the

1198
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,679
Speaker 1: overriding theme through through my lifetime. That's what I meant

1199
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: by the objective reality. That's what's the phrase that I

1200
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: was looking for, um that I couldn't remember. Um, the

1201
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,480
Speaker 1: objective reality fixed the fixed thing, the fixed things conservation.

1202
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: And so I don't think that I've been accused um.

1203
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: You know, well, I guess in some ways negatively about yeah,

1204
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: well you used to be the guy who's all about right.

1205
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 1: I didn't think you killed that was I thought you

1206
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: were a big buck hunter. And you know, I've been

1207
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: accute said and of that in in in bars and

1208
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 1: things like that, and UM my responses, well't no, it's

1209
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 1: just always been the same ideas that we're trying to

1210
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: do what's best. Um. And one of the by products

1211
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:22,719
Speaker 1: of that was bigger bucks and older box and U uh.

1212
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: And so that was one of the things that happened

1213
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 1: of it. And I felt like, not only was the

1214
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,759
Speaker 1: was the standard as we came to we never named

1215
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: you know how white tail Guy's named dear when they

1216
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: see him on the camera and stuff. When you don't

1217
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: name them till they're dead. Well and A and a

1218
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: friend of ours had said when he saw it, he goes, well,

1219
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 1: that is the standard by which all dear in the

1220
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: future will be judged. And so you know that was

1221
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: how that happened. And UM and and so that that's

1222
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 1: the part that made sense to me. And and now

1223
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 1: that UM, the resource because of chronic wasting disease has

1224
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: been uh, it's threatened. I mean, we have high prevalence

1225
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 1: in our area. UM, I can't I have trouble with

1226
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: the visualization now of seeing a hundred deer in the

1227
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: field and and uh, you know, realizing that up to

1228
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: that hundred deer are carrying a fatal disease that there

1229
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: is are also spreading around. UM, not in our area yet,

1230
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 1: but south of us. So I'm trying to do what

1231
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:35,640
Speaker 1: I can for it. So the conservation ethic of it

1232
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: is that overriding theme, or that that continuum of it.

1233
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: And and the fascination of of deer in the woods

1234
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 1: and the time in the woods is also the the

1235
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 1: part of it that's been real consistent for me. But

1236
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: UM Jones brought up a lot of the questions that

1237
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 1: UM and I never was offended by anything that the

1238
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: guys that um or and I thought it was a

1239
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 1: fascinating guy because he talked about moral responsibility and UH

1240
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: and I and I feel that responsibility. UM. And I

1241
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,680
Speaker 1: think that UM all the folks that I like to

1242
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: hang out with anyway and hunt with and stuff, that

1243
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: they feel that responsibility for it too. UM, just like

1244
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,599
Speaker 1: I feel a responsibility. You know, you're talking about, UM,

1245
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 1: the livestock that you raise, you know, as you know,

1246
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 1: I raised cattle, and UM, there's I have a have

1247
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: mixed feelings about that, but at the end of the day, UM,

1248
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: there's a I feel a responsibility. I would never grow

1249
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: cattle in a way that you know that they are

1250
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 1: done on a large scale. I just it's just not

1251
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: something that I would do. And I'm in a position

1252
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 1: where I don't have to because you just like large

1253
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: scale because it's large scale. You're just like what you

1254
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 1: assume comes with large scale or what you know that

1255
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: what you know to come with large scale, what I

1256
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 1: know to come if you have if you have an experience,

1257
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: if you create an experience, it's that's the right word.

1258
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: You create a reality or an experience for your cows.

1259
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: If you can what's the difference if you're doing it

1260
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: for that experience for twenty year, that experience for a thousand,

1261
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: if it's how they're raised. You know, one of the

1262
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: things that you brought up was that like the desire

1263
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 1: of people now to know that their meat is humanely raised,

1264
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 1: that their animals like you see what I'm saying, right,

1265
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 1: it's not that it's large It's not that the fact

1266
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 1: that it's large scale. It's like what efficiencies come with

1267
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: large scale that you don't like or or there's I

1268
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 1: don't want to but there's probably an environmental component exactly.

1269
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Like if you have a lot, if

1270
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: you're doing a thousand and then you got a lot

1271
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: of manure you're dealing with and for a finite fine

1272
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: feeding operations or environmentally problematic to say the least. And

1273
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, when you drive around our

1274
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: area was and you guys have been there a farm here,

1275
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: farm there, farm there, and and and sort of everything

1276
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: that was happening. Yeah, green hills, red barn silos, black

1277
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: and white cows and uh you know, the manure that

1278
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: was being uh produced on that farmer those cattle was

1279
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: pretty much going back in the field, and and there

1280
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: were times that you you know, you kind of wish

1281
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 1: you had more because it was you know, it was

1282
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 1: it was it was. It wasn't a byproduct or a

1283
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: waste product that you're getting rid of. Um. So there's that. Uh,

1284
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 1: there's the living on concrete, you know, a cow, a steer, whatever,

1285
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 1: living its life out in an environment like that. For me,

1286
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to judge other people that

1287
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 1: are doing it, but for me, I don't think that's

1288
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: um morallily responsible. I raised grass fed beef. I'm able

1289
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: to do it in a way that uh um. I

1290
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 1: think about all the time, like, am I doing this right?

1291
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 1: Am I treating them? Well? Is it? Uh? Um? Uh,

1292
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 1: it's just you know, environmentally sense at um. And then

1293
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: Robert Jones would say, you know that's all great, but

1294
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: in the end, you kill it. Yeah, he'd say it,

1295
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 1: let's take it one step further and now do it

1296
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 1: at all. Let's finish let's finish it up. Well. Um,

1297
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: but you're sort of saying like no, you're sort of saying,

1298
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 1: I have to do it. This is the best I

1299
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: can do. He would challenge the idea that you have

1300
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: to do it um, yes, yes, he sure would. Um,

1301
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 1: but I think that that idea when he talked about

1302
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: instinct for instance, well, you know, we don't act on

1303
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 1: all of our instincts, but we can act on our

1304
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: instincts and a morally morally responsive. Interesting point, he said,

1305
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 1: when I smell bacon, I think, man, that bacon. It

1306
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:48,759
Speaker 1: was really interesting to hear him say that. Yeah. Yeah, Um,

1307
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: I mean I don't take any of it lately. You know,

1308
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 1: you were asking me about this last night or the

1309
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: day before or something, and um, it gets harder for me. Uh.

1310
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: You know, I loaded up a bunch of six months

1311
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:03,760
Speaker 1: old calves, uh six months old steers and heifers last

1312
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: year and sent them down the road and listen to

1313
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: their mother's beller and they you know. I mean it

1314
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 1: was a it was a decision that I had to

1315
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: make because of the cattle and all of that. Um,

1316
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 1: and it was I'm literally changing how I'm raising cattle

1317
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 1: because I don't want to do that again. I mean,

1318
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 1: I'm just going to raise them differently, um, and not

1319
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: have big groups of cattle like that. I'm gonna take

1320
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 1: them through their lives so that in when they do um,

1321
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:32,799
Speaker 1: go to slaughter and I really want to move towards

1322
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: um being able to be a USD. And they have

1323
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 1: a U s D inspected mobile, butcher come to back

1324
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: into the barn, walk them on there there and and

1325
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 1: they do all the work right there. Um because the

1326
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: inspection is important to me because I sell the beef.

1327
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 1: But rather than even putting them on that truck to

1328
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 1: go to the locker where they then settled down, spend

1329
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:58,800
Speaker 1: the night, and the next morning they die. That's how

1330
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 1: we do it now, um. But I can tell you this,

1331
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: they have a great life up to that point, just

1332
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 1: like the deerer on our farm do. UM. And I

1333
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: and I and I try to balance that with you know,

1334
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 1: with that that's that responsibility that I feel. And I

1335
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: think that um that as you said, I think that's

1336
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 1: the best I can do. Quick story for you, little digression.

1337
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 1: I was at my friend on his house one time.

1338
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 1: Her dad was a vet but also a rancher, and

1339
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: she had a bunch of friends over, including some vegetarians

1340
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: are over. And they get there and they got this

1341
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: little they got this little crawl right off their house

1342
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 1: and it's all the lambs are in the craw And

1343
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,800
Speaker 1: I said, what's going on with the lambs, you know,

1344
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: and she makes like a throat cutting gesture to me,

1345
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 1: like this is a sensitive subject considering the people she

1346
01:24:56,439 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: has over And while we're there hanging out and living him,

1347
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: a truck backs in and the guy's custom plate is

1348
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: one shot j J. She looks out the wind and

1349
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:16,679
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, and JJ got out of his Tony

1350
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: two and set to work. What did they think of that?

1351
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,600
Speaker 1: No one really liked it, but they he set to

1352
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:28,240
Speaker 1: work right then and there. Well, I no one went

1353
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 1: out to view, but it was just like, you know, yeah,

1354
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 1: I was like, the guy one shot JJ's here. Yeah,

1355
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 1: and he had the whole he had his truck, but

1356
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 1: then he also had his whole mobile. Anyhow. Yeah, I've

1357
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,719
Speaker 1: been real matter of fact about it in the past

1358
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: because I grew up with it, you know, with the

1359
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 1: slaughtering of animals and and and hunting and all of that.

1360
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: I think that's key, and I think that that that's

1361
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,040
Speaker 1: like what makes you realize that it's just it's kind

1362
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: of like there's a lot of things, a lot of sense,

1363
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,720
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of tough issues that if

1364
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: you were raising a range of environments, you'd come out

1365
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 1: thinking the same thing, like, we'd all agree that no

1366
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: matter what kind of householder were raised in, that violent

1367
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: crime is bad. That you know, beating somebody up as bad.

1368
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 1: There are people who question, well, yeah, but I mean

1369
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 1: depending on how they are raised often or their level

1370
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:29,679
Speaker 1: of sociopath but people would agree that perpetrating violence against

1371
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: somebody's wrong. But with hunting um or killing animals, whether

1372
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 1: you were great raised in like a vegetarian household or

1373
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: hunting how farming household has a huge bearing. Yeah, what

1374
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: you end up thinking as an adult. Yeah, I know

1375
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 1: that because I've had, I continue to have so much

1376
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:55,879
Speaker 1: exposure to people who had such a very different upbringing

1377
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 1: in the things that I think of as just a

1378
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 1: very matter of fact or sometimes shock to people. M Yeah,

1379
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: like look at uh, look at even people that have

1380
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 1: been exposed a lot to hunting and fishing, like my

1381
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 1: my wife. You know, she's been exposed to hunting and

1382
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 1: fishing on an offer whole life, and ranching and ranching.

1383
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 1: She doesn't hunting fish, but she's been exposed to it.

1384
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: She thinks it's deplorable that we don't kill pan fish.

1385
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,520
Speaker 1: I've talked about this on this here programming a lot. Yeah,

1386
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: and Uh, to me, that is just I was told

1387
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid that they don't feel stuff.

1388
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: Hold on expand on that, because not just that we

1389
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 1: don't kill pans. Okay, so we catch the fish and

1390
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 1: we don't dispose. You got a catfish and throwing the

1391
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 1: bottom of the boat. She acts like you're driving around

1392
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 1: with a deer flopping around in the back of your truck,

1393
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,639
Speaker 1: or you'd have a rabbit in your game pouch kicking

1394
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 1: around back there. And and when that's exactly how and

1395
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 1: when I try to counter her, my arguments are extremely thin,

1396
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 1: like I don't know what that thing is feeling. You

1397
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: know that narrative which I love, it's like this sort

1398
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: of thing and I'm not for Pat Durkins explored that

1399
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:19,600
Speaker 1: narrative of of your family farm and this like and

1400
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 1: b n y that we get into in the movie

1401
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 1: Not Nice Buck Next Year. This sort of ethos or

1402
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:28,840
Speaker 1: this conservation ethic that perhaps is the elastic in some way.

1403
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: Uh that it's like a really um it's it's really

1404
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 1: like compelling, beautiful and very tidy story. It's like this

1405
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 1: nice tidy package when you want to pluck it out

1406
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 1: and so and to have it be in a movie

1407
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 1: that you like, pluck this little package out and book

1408
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 1: ended with other people's sentiments, it has it wants up

1409
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 1: feeling like conclusive, you know, but then it ends and

1410
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 1: ship goes on and let the story continues, just like

1411
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 1: the story has continue to that farm for a hundred

1412
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and fifteen years. And one of the interesting things to

1413
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 1: me is how in the ark of my lifetime we

1414
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: went from a few deer too more dear too now

1415
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 1: to too many deer and disease. And at the same time,

1416
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 1: that's how if you're just isolating the deer and at

1417
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 1: the same time we have these other conservation issues on

1418
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 1: our on our property, in in our in the whole

1419
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: driftless area, um, that are all sort of interwined together.

1420
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: And so I see them as as a group of

1421
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 1: of issues that are interwined together as opposed to you know,

1422
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:47,799
Speaker 1: people who are most interested in or in some cases

1423
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 1: solely interested in deer and dear only. UM. And I

1424
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 1: don't I don't know exactly how to um wrap that

1425
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: all up real tidy, but uh, I think that with

1426
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 1: the kinds of themes that we're talking about, the bigger

1427
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 1: ball of all of these things together is is you

1428
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:12,080
Speaker 1: know where I rest, my rest, my case and all

1429
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 1: of this that I'm not just caring for one thing

1430
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 1: or trying to do one thing. I'm trying to do

1431
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of folks that I know um doing it.

1432
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 1: And really the people that I personally respect the most

1433
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: are trying to do a u something that's much more

1434
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 1: a wider conservation based idea. Yeah, that's that's Leopold, the

1435
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: whole community. Yeah. Yeah, well he's from the soil all

1436
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 1: the way up to this guy. What was his Uh

1437
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: he didn't coin biome what did he coin? He he

1438
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 1: would have known him for. Yeah, but the but the

1439
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: land ethic and that that I mean. And Leopold is

1440
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 1: my he's my hero. Um. He used to take out

1441
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 1: his recurve and take seventy yard shots a deer. Just

1442
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:08,759
Speaker 1: see if you get hit him. Yeah, there's a book

1443
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 1: I can't there's a later book of his words, just

1444
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 1: see if you hit him. Yeah, there's a later book

1445
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 1: of his where he's hunting in New Mexico with some

1446
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 1: friend of his and there's a lot of questionable shots.

1447
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: If now, if you just hunting now, you think he

1448
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: was a perfect perfect segue. If we wouldn't want to

1449
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:33,680
Speaker 1: jump into the ethics thing. Oh I thought we were

1450
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 1: talking about ethics. Oh well, we talked about this idea

1451
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:40,600
Speaker 1: of one of the things we talked about one of

1452
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 1: the themes. Rattle off a handful of themes and I'll

1453
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 1: touch on this quick, but I want to get I

1454
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 1: want to get to Randall too. Um, the patrilineal passage

1455
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 1: of hunting. So we had, Yeah, Yanni had this idea

1456
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 1: and we just, you know, conversations like movies going their

1457
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: own direction. Um untied that of bringing up a bunch

1458
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 1: of the themes that we explore in the movie, and

1459
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 1: we're just you's gonna throw them out and I'm gonna

1460
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: give a handful of snap shots and then we're gonna

1461
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 1: move into talking to talking to Randall. But yeah, so

1462
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: we explore like patrilinnial descent being that's how most like

1463
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: just I'm not talking about I'm not talking about the

1464
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 1: way things should be. I'm just something about the way

1465
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,600
Speaker 1: they are. The people to buy a hunting license in

1466
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 1: this country are men, and most of those pick it

1467
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,040
Speaker 1: up from their dad. We talked about that, and then

1468
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:36,719
Speaker 1: we talk about cases that aren't that, and and and

1469
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 1: and it's sort of this chorus of characters talking about

1470
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 1: what it like, what it was that pushed him in

1471
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 1: this direction. And I oftentimes find that the ones that

1472
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 1: are most interesting are the ones that aren't just the

1473
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 1: same old, same old, which is like, un is your

1474
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 1: dad hunted, you hung as your dad hunted, young as

1475
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 1: your dad hunted, You hung as your dad hunted Randall, No,

1476
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 1: my dad didn't hunt. There you go. We're um, we're

1477
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: still justically skewed right now. There should be nine of

1478
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: us in one of you. No, No, that's not true.

1479
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: That's not no, that's not that. I'm mixing that up

1480
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 1: with the I'm mixing that up with the with the

1481
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 1: with the gender thing, red alof not one real quick

1482
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 1: Johnny H Hunters pr problem. Yeah. The way in the

1483
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 1: movie we get into try to explore this idea of

1484
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 1: the way a hunter experiences their actions and activities and

1485
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 1: the way those actions and activities look to people who

1486
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: are not that they are seeing. There's a there's a

1487
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,520
Speaker 1: really good book if you guys, let read Milan Kundera.

1488
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 1: Kundera's book, The Unbearable Likeness of Being. It's a good book.

1489
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:51,520
Speaker 1: There's a guy and his girlfriend and his novel and

1490
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 1: and she was from the Soviet block and he's not.

1491
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 1: And they talk about when they see a parade, when

1492
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 1: they watch a parade, what she thinks when she sees

1493
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: a parade and what he thinks when he sees a parade,

1494
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:10,639
Speaker 1: same thing. Well, they conjures very different, very different emotions

1495
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 1: in them. Um. So we get into that a little bit.

1496
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 1: Um the question like why have ethics become so intertwined

1497
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 1: with today's hunting? Yeah, meaning, um, you know, if you

1498
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: go back to the first people, the first Siberians that

1499
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:34,680
Speaker 1: came into the New World, the western hemisphere what's now

1500
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 1: the US, Um, what was there? More? Did they feel? Uh?

1501
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:46,800
Speaker 1: Was there an ethical conundrum? Was the sadness there? Or

1502
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: other animals that are alive now on our planet? Is

1503
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:53,759
Speaker 1: there sadness when the wolf when that elk finally bleeds

1504
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: out and dies? Is the wolf? Like, dude, I'm always

1505
01:34:56,680 --> 01:35:01,879
Speaker 1: kind of balmed. I imagine the fact that like ancient

1506
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 1: man didn't have it choice, some major mitigating factor. And

1507
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:09,680
Speaker 1: if you look at you know, we don't explore this

1508
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 1: fully at all, but if you look at there was

1509
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:15,839
Speaker 1: also like kind of a hallmark of indigenous hunter gatherer cultures.

1510
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:17,720
Speaker 1: And this is something Robert Jones brings up and he

1511
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 1: winds up contradicting himself. It's not in the movie, but

1512
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:23,000
Speaker 1: some dad like to release the whole interview. He winds

1513
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 1: up contradicting himself because he's okay with indigenous hunting. Yet

1514
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 1: his point is, then animal doesn't care about your things

1515
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 1: that he kept telling me, Like you talk about ethics,

1516
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 1: but animals don't care about your ethics. They're getting killed,

1517
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 1: they feel pain, and they die. They don't care what

1518
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 1: kind of trip you're on. Yet he expresses to me

1519
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 1: being okay with indigenous hunters because it has religious connotations

1520
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 1: for them, and I'm like, the animal doesn't know it

1521
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 1: has religious connotations. You're contradicting what you just told me.

1522
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:49,680
Speaker 1: And maybe I feel something that's borders on the religious.

1523
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:52,719
Speaker 1: But it's a thing where like people that are anti

1524
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: hunters oftentimes had to find these ways to make other

1525
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 1: things that they feel should be okay okay. And the

1526
01:35:58,280 --> 01:36:01,200
Speaker 1: thing that's hard for them to explain is it's harder

1527
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 1: than to be like, well, why can indigenous people hunt?

1528
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:06,680
Speaker 1: Because they don't want to say they can't. It's like colonialism,

1529
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,240
Speaker 1: But you wonder why then, like how like this brings

1530
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:10,560
Speaker 1: it all the way back around to what we're just

1531
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:12,920
Speaker 1: talking about with Leopold and like Pope and Young. Right,

1532
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: there's plenty of stories those boys going out on hunting

1533
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 1: trips with hundreds of arrows because they were known to

1534
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,760
Speaker 1: fling it a distances now even the best archers think

1535
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 1: are long and far with today's equipment, right, And so

1536
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:27,439
Speaker 1: even in that short period of time, what is that?

1537
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 1: When when did Pope and Young come around? Like, I

1538
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:33,600
Speaker 1: think what was it? Was it? That it could have

1539
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 1: been like really weirdly early too, but I want to

1540
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: either way within the last within the last hundred years, right,

1541
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:44,639
Speaker 1: So look where the hunting ethics is coming that short

1542
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: period of time. Yeah, or just some of the classic

1543
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 1: gun writers are lobbing bullets out there taking shots with

1544
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: That's why we call Yanni, not because I love shots.

1545
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:03,920
Speaker 1: We call me Anie Van's Wall too, but um yeah,

1546
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: Yanni O'Connor, Jack O'Connor. He they'd like roll up on

1547
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:10,320
Speaker 1: a group with big horns and just everyone and start

1548
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 1: shooting and they're going they're like, oh my gosh, we

1549
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 1: want to before Well there's also I mean this is

1550
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 1: going that late no really, yeah, but that's that's the

1551
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:28,600
Speaker 1: that's when it became an official club, Pope and Young themselves.

1552
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,320
Speaker 1: I think we're doing things prior to that. But the

1553
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: Pope and Young Club and art right, I think so. Yeah,

1554
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:40,599
Speaker 1: because Boone and Crockett Club was early eighties all right, Randall? Yes,

1555
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,599
Speaker 1: so that might do any justice Yanni on on the

1556
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:46,800
Speaker 1: themes you're in the point. I want to move on

1557
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 1: to Randall though, since we got him here. Yeah, those

1558
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 1: boys are hunting together, just to wrap it all up,

1559
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven twelve. In those years, I hope they like

1560
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:58,720
Speaker 1: each other. They liked each other because they're like nuts

1561
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:05,559
Speaker 1: on a dog now. Yeah, yeah, they're just together. You know. Um, Randall,

1562
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:07,360
Speaker 1: if you had like a one to ten, if you

1563
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: had a sliding scale of one to ten and you

1564
01:38:11,479 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: had to rate our job of capturing what you had

1565
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 1: to say on a one to ten, where are we

1566
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:27,040
Speaker 1: four or five? Where are we? Like when you watched it, Like,

1567
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 1: what was your level of disappointment? Oh? I was thrilled?

1568
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: You were thrilled? Yeah you were disappointed? No, I mean

1569
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 1: we had we talked to you a lot. Yeah, we

1570
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:38,240
Speaker 1: did one interview. There's probably like three and a half

1571
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:41,360
Speaker 1: hours and one that was probably to something and uh,

1572
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: somedoy who release all these as just a giant transcription?

1573
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:51,559
Speaker 1: Oh god? You know, like I I walked away from

1574
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:53,920
Speaker 1: each one of those interviews feeling kind of punch drunk,

1575
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:56,639
Speaker 1: like did I really say that that way? Or did

1576
01:38:56,640 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 1: I get it backwards or did I flip that? You know,

1577
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 1: did I actually get across what I was trying to say?

1578
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:06,760
Speaker 1: And and when I pressed play on the documentary for

1579
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:11,680
Speaker 1: the first time, my hope was that I would just

1580
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: make sense and then I wouldn't say something that was

1581
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 1: categorically false or outrageous. Um. And I thought, I I

1582
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 1: thought I came out pretty good. Can you tell people

1583
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 1: what it is you did that first put you on

1584
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 1: our radar? Yeah? So I did, uhum a PhD in

1585
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: history at the University of Montana, and my dissertation was

1586
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:40,960
Speaker 1: a study of hunting in American politics and culture in

1587
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 1: basically the second half of the twentie century, called Green Voters,

1588
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: Gun Voters, um, Hunting in American Politics and Culture in

1589
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: the twentieth Century. I think, did we know that that

1590
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 1: was the title? Back in the day? You do that?

1591
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 1: I knew that, Um, Yeah, it's not published. He was

1592
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: ahead of his time it's not published. I started working

1593
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,479
Speaker 1: as an editor after that, and at the end of

1594
01:40:10,520 --> 01:40:13,320
Speaker 1: the day I just wanted to put away the computer

1595
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 1: and not look at another word document, so I never

1596
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:18,760
Speaker 1: kind of picked it back up. Um, did you uh? Did?

1597
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 1: Did you get your a little piece of paper that

1598
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:24,759
Speaker 1: says PhD? I did? I did, And I just realized

1599
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:26,360
Speaker 1: the other day I have no idea where that is.

1600
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:29,640
Speaker 1: No one's I was looking at my wife's degree on

1601
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:31,280
Speaker 1: the wall and I was like, man, I don't don't

1602
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: really know where that that went. No one said, no

1603
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 1: one said to you prove it and you had to go,

1604
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:39,400
Speaker 1: and you've had to go get it. No, I have

1605
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: a PhD. How would I have this? I have two

1606
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 1: PhDs and I don't know where one is. This is

1607
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 1: a joke. Don't tell this joke, pretty huge, don't tell

1608
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:57,280
Speaker 1: this joke. Go on, Randall, Um, is that gonna get

1609
01:40:57,320 --> 01:41:01,800
Speaker 1: cut because you didn't You didn't all the joke. I

1610
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:05,240
Speaker 1: was actually gonna alert Randall to check in with you

1611
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 1: about your joke. Later used that you used that line

1612
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:12,560
Speaker 1: on me in the first podcast. I think that's I

1613
01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 1: learned that from a girl I was dating, and she

1614
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 1: learned on the TV show Friends. Is that right? Wow? Yeah,

1615
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that that Friends was like risk a man,

1616
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend love that show? Go on? Um yeah,

1617
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 1: So basically, I, um, it's part of my research. I

1618
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,519
Speaker 1: had just looked at hunting and fishing magazines over the

1619
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: course of like sixty some odd years, and looked at

1620
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:45,559
Speaker 1: other public representations of hunting and hunting where it popped

1621
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 1: up in the news or another, um, you know, forms

1622
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:55,799
Speaker 1: of popular culture, like when Sesame Street in the seventies

1623
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,760
Speaker 1: or eighties does something on hunting, what does that look like?

1624
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 1: Or how our hunters represented in Looney Tunes things like that.

1625
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:07,799
Speaker 1: So just basically tried to um digest this huge volume

1626
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 1: of material and think about, um, how hunters have represented

1627
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: themselves over time, and what others have thought of hunters

1628
01:42:16,040 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 1: and they um the dialectic between those two things, and

1629
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: how that's evolved in this period in which hunting's place

1630
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 1: in popular culture has really changed a lot. Have you

1631
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:30,439
Speaker 1: ever seen that cartoon where it's like it's not part

1632
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 1: of Looney Tunes or anything, but used to be on

1633
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 1: like Saturday Morning once in a a while, where it's like

1634
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: deer hunting and it's just like people shooting each other

1635
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:42,599
Speaker 1: and stuff. It was all from the fifties, from the fifties,

1636
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:45,720
Speaker 1: and like one of those in the embedded in his

1637
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:50,000
Speaker 1: like an ad for the mother in law deer hunting suit,

1638
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,920
Speaker 1: and it's like she puts it on, it's a deer suit,

1639
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:56,840
Speaker 1: so she gets it's so she gets shot. And then

1640
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:00,120
Speaker 1: a guy in that same cartoon, a guy shoot the

1641
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 1: buck and then says to his body, I got one

1642
01:43:03,320 --> 01:43:06,479
Speaker 1: that's got antlers like this, and he gets his head,

1643
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:09,519
Speaker 1: holds his hands up to show the antlers and his

1644
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 1: friend shoots him. Yeah, and there's one Joe. I don't

1645
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: know the lead. I remember the lead up, but it

1646
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:17,800
Speaker 1: ends up with like the deer's driving the car and

1647
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,640
Speaker 1: he strapped to the bumpers. I haven't seen that, no,

1648
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:24,519
Speaker 1: And I said before Sesame Street. What I'm thinking about,

1649
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:26,560
Speaker 1: think is the Muppets, And there's like a scene in

1650
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 1: the Muppets um that I came across where that Buffalo

1651
01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 1: Springfield song, like you know, that's one of vivid memories

1652
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:42,439
Speaker 1: of these animals are walking through the forest and their

1653
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,000
Speaker 1: hunters there and whenever it stopped, they start shooting. I

1654
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:48,519
Speaker 1: don't remember that. Yeah, and they're they're like these these

1655
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:50,919
Speaker 1: hunters are creeping through the woods looking for the animals.

1656
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:54,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, and it's like a protest anthem. So it

1657
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:58,759
Speaker 1: has by a band that's named after a rifle. Yeah. Yeah.

1658
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 1: I talked about that in my buffal little book Buffalo

1659
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:07,919
Speaker 1: Springfield and what that name? What that name is all about? Um.

1660
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:11,960
Speaker 1: I teach my kids to recognize anti hunting bias and

1661
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 1: the things that they look at. And they're good, my boys.

1662
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,000
Speaker 1: My boy is good at picking it up. And we

1663
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 1: talked about in children's literature. It is almost I don't

1664
01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:21,439
Speaker 1: want to say daily, but weekly. I bet you I

1665
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 1: got I got to just like stop and be like, okay, girls,

1666
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:27,280
Speaker 1: let's just think about what this book just said and

1667
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 1: like really go through it and and dissect it. Because no,

1668
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 1: wild animals don't need our help. And when you don't

1669
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,720
Speaker 1: have to put food on the window sill so that

1670
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 1: the birds will continue to live, like what in the world.

1671
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 1: That's why you gotta read your kids. Light in the Forest,

1672
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:46,200
Speaker 1: Hatchet my side of the mountain. There's plenty of books

1673
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 1: out there. Man. The worst anti hunting show is um.

1674
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:53,640
Speaker 1: One of the worst anti hunting shows is Wildcrats. I

1675
01:44:53,680 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. That show so what's this on this

1676
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:04,600
Speaker 1: on the sliding scale, all of your complex ideas, we

1677
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:07,479
Speaker 1: kind of mostly just had you be like a little

1678
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 1: bit of a demographics guy and a little bit of

1679
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:16,519
Speaker 1: a Roosevelt guy. Yeah. I was fine with that. Yeah. Um,

1680
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 1: I felt there's so many people. It's it's funny because

1681
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 1: there's so many people that I feel, UM like getting into.

1682
01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was getting into, you know,

1683
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:27,759
Speaker 1: I didn't know how hard it was gonna like. I didn't.

1684
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 1: I just knew I wanted to capture, like we're gonna

1685
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:33,640
Speaker 1: go capture tons of stuff. And then I knew that.

1686
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 1: You know, I've watched hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of movies.

1687
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:41,639
Speaker 1: I know how long they are. Um, And I didn't

1688
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:44,599
Speaker 1: put those two things together like I didn't. I didn't

1689
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 1: think about I wasn't thinking about um. I was thinking

1690
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:52,479
Speaker 1: about it. I wasn't thinking it was gonna be like

1691
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 1: Ken Burns a civil war or something. But never I

1692
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:56,519
Speaker 1: wasn't think I knew what was gonna wind up being.

1693
01:45:56,520 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 1: It was gonna be like a ninety minute whatever. And

1694
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:03,759
Speaker 1: I wasn't picturing that's what I want to do another

1695
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:10,599
Speaker 1: one someday. I wasn't imagining what would happen to all

1696
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:18,519
Speaker 1: of these ideas. Not only that, like that you need

1697
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 1: to like simplify things and pare it down for a

1698
01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:24,880
Speaker 1: couple of reasons so that the viewer could understand, and

1699
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:27,480
Speaker 1: you also have the sense of allegiance to the subject.

1700
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:31,760
Speaker 1: And you're like, I can't have the subjects say ten

1701
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:36,600
Speaker 1: things incompletely. Yeah, I'm gonna have to find they're just

1702
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:38,280
Speaker 1: gonna have to say two things in a way that

1703
01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 1: makes sense, yea, rather than letting them right there giving

1704
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 1: them sound bites about tons of stuff. It's like, I

1705
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: gotta this is gonna be like like if you're gonna

1706
01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:49,640
Speaker 1: boil it down, what are some things? And then the

1707
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:52,000
Speaker 1: problem with like with friends, and there's so many friends

1708
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:56,040
Speaker 1: of mine in it, you know, Rogan's in it, Robert

1709
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 1: Abernathew's in it. I don't want to point like, I

1710
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 1: don't want to posset these problems their problems only in

1711
01:47:00,920 --> 01:47:02,800
Speaker 1: my head, because they're not problems for someone to watch

1712
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: the film. I really want people to watch films I do.

1713
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:06,840
Speaker 1: I like, I like, I want people to see an

1714
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,240
Speaker 1: experience it. So there's the thing we keep talking about,

1715
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:11,240
Speaker 1: like these things and it's like way as you perceive them,

1716
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:14,600
Speaker 1: there's the thing, and the thing as a freestanding entity

1717
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,679
Speaker 1: is something I want people to see, but I can't

1718
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:22,639
Speaker 1: watch it without all of the the noise in my head.

1719
01:47:22,720 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 1: And part of the noise in my head is like

1720
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 1: I had these friends who have really interesting experiences, like

1721
01:47:27,320 --> 01:47:31,000
Speaker 1: like Matt, who's sitting here, has this very refreshing like

1722
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:35,599
Speaker 1: everything out of MAT's mouth is delights me, Like everything

1723
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:43,920
Speaker 1: he says delights me. So um, Doug, you know, like dogs,

1724
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:46,880
Speaker 1: like this generous, beautiful person with kind of this like

1725
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 1: a way to express, to explain his life in the

1726
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:53,120
Speaker 1: way that's very moving and instructive. Right, And you have

1727
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:56,920
Speaker 1: this like really cohesive view of something that's really complicated

1728
01:47:57,479 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: and like a real knack for sort of blaming this

1729
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:05,640
Speaker 1: activity that is so influenced by history and influenced by

1730
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 1: demographics and sort of like making it seem like a picture,

1731
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, like like presenting it and and I'm friends

1732
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:15,000
Speaker 1: with you guys, and so then to put you there,

1733
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm also like what I want them to look like?

1734
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:21,840
Speaker 1: What I see when I see them, It's just it's

1735
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:25,120
Speaker 1: just complicated. Man. Oh yeah, I'm kind of haunted by

1736
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 1: the I'm haunted by the process. Well, I think that's

1737
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm I'm so. I'm glad as to be

1738
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:31,599
Speaker 1: sitting here talking because I want to make sure we're cool. Yeah,

1739
01:48:32,120 --> 01:48:34,640
Speaker 1: we're all good. And this also goes out as an

1740
01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:37,479
Speaker 1: apology to all those other people that the interview that

1741
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:40,920
Speaker 1: didn't make the cut. Well, I know, I mean, I

1742
01:48:41,040 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 1: a lot of what you're saying resonates with me because

1743
01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 1: when I, UM worked on my dissertation, you're telling a

1744
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:52,120
Speaker 1: story and you're trying to explain something through the storytelling process,

1745
01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 1: and you have to choose a beginning and an end

1746
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:58,240
Speaker 1: and an arc to it, and you can't compress everything

1747
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:02,280
Speaker 1: in there. And UM. So that's like, when I go

1748
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: back and look at my dissertation, I remember all the

1749
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:08,640
Speaker 1: things that started to become threads that I wanted to

1750
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:11,760
Speaker 1: weave into this and I had to I had to

1751
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 1: cut them. UM. And I have, you know, boxes and

1752
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:19,480
Speaker 1: boxes of photo copies and notes and things like that

1753
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:21,439
Speaker 1: that have been traveling around with me for a couple

1754
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 1: of years and UM, and they're all little things that

1755
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:28,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to cram into that. UM because when I

1756
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,120
Speaker 1: read what I wrote, I think, like man, it's it's

1757
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:35,519
Speaker 1: more complex than that. There are several other layers that

1758
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:40,440
Speaker 1: I need to to weave into this thing. Um and

1759
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I mean I think especially with you know,

1760
01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm lucky because I I didn't have a page limit. Um.

1761
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 1: But when you're making a documentary film, obviously there's that

1762
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:53,000
Speaker 1: window of time that you have to fit it into.

1763
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:56,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how good the stuff you get is. Um,

1764
01:49:56,439 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 1: you have to make those really really tough choices. You

1765
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 1: ought to cred sism we got early on about the movie,

1766
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:05,200
Speaker 1: which I would have thought would have been a compliment,

1767
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 1: but it was always issued as a criticism is it

1768
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 1: doesn't come down hard enough on anything. It feels too

1769
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:19,679
Speaker 1: open ended. And I always want to be like, that's great, yeah,

1770
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean if people wanted to be like

1771
01:50:23,400 --> 01:50:25,400
Speaker 1: a like a like a Michael Moore kind of thing.

1772
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,639
Speaker 1: I try not to surround myself with people who come

1773
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:33,320
Speaker 1: down hard on stuff like there's what's the point, you know?

1774
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 1: And to the point earlier about having this animal ethicist

1775
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:43,320
Speaker 1: as a leading figure in the documentary, like having an

1776
01:50:43,320 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 1: open exchange of ideas and questioning your own ideas and

1777
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:51,280
Speaker 1: reflecting on what you really think or what you really

1778
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:54,559
Speaker 1: believe or what values you have. Like if you just

1779
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:58,240
Speaker 1: are in an echo chamber and you're you know, talking

1780
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:00,880
Speaker 1: about the people on the outside, or you're talking about

1781
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:04,640
Speaker 1: how great the people in this room are, what are

1782
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:08,160
Speaker 1: you really doing? You know, it's not it's not a

1783
01:51:08,200 --> 01:51:11,720
Speaker 1: real serious intellectual exercise. And so yeah, I'm you could

1784
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 1: have made a movie of people saying, dude, if we

1785
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:19,400
Speaker 1: don't kill all the deer, we'll get overrun. Yeah. Yeah,

1786
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: And I think, like, you know, one other thing too,

1787
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: is like it's really easy to like write a book

1788
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:29,519
Speaker 1: review or a movie review and and slam it. Like

1789
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:32,200
Speaker 1: and this is something that at least in graduate school

1790
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:35,679
Speaker 1: you could recognize people are starting to write book reviews.

1791
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:39,040
Speaker 1: They just trash everything or it's the greatest thing they've

1792
01:51:39,040 --> 01:51:43,240
Speaker 1: ever read. But it takes, you know, it takes it

1793
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 1: takes a lot more effort to to you know, pick

1794
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 1: something apart and ask questions of it and go back

1795
01:51:50,280 --> 01:51:54,280
Speaker 1: and revisit and chew on it, and and that ultimately generates,

1796
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, more questions. Like a film reviewed on NPR,

1797
01:51:59,280 --> 01:52:03,000
Speaker 1: You're like, I can't tell that dude really like, yeah,

1798
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:05,439
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's so he might not want

1799
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:10,519
Speaker 1: to bore his listeners with whether he liked it or not. Yeah, right, Yeah,

1800
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:13,800
Speaker 1: I always want to know because I'm like, well, I mean,

1801
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:15,960
Speaker 1: this is his job. He liked it, I'll I might

1802
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:19,759
Speaker 1: be more inclined to see it. Yeah, if you're always

1803
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:22,720
Speaker 1: to be thought provoking, I think he succeeded there. I

1804
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: think everybody can't agree on that, right, Yeah, it's I

1805
01:52:27,320 --> 01:52:30,559
Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's nice to see something that, like hunting,

1806
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:35,000
Speaker 1: as you're saying, is often portrayed as this cartoonish activity

1807
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:39,080
Speaker 1: and you're either the hero or you're the villain, and

1808
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 1: that's not the reality of it. And so to see

1809
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:47,240
Speaker 1: this like nuanced, um exploration of what we're all doing

1810
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 1: and why we do it, and why we think we

1811
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 1: do it, why we may actually do it. Um. I

1812
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 1: don't know. I found that refreshing. It would be interesting

1813
01:52:55,439 --> 01:53:01,000
Speaker 1: to like hear what I don't ten people from various

1814
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:05,840
Speaker 1: uh walks of life that don't hunt. What did what

1815
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:09,760
Speaker 1: did anything change in their perception upon it? If you

1816
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:12,439
Speaker 1: could make them, If you could take people who were

1817
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:16,760
Speaker 1: ambivalent or hostile to hunting and somehow forced them to

1818
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:19,400
Speaker 1: watch and then do a post interview, Yeah, I could

1819
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:21,120
Speaker 1: set that up. I just haven't done it yet, but

1820
01:53:21,120 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to it. Definitely do it. And you know, well,

1821
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:26,559
Speaker 1: I don't know if I need to hear it now.

1822
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:28,760
Speaker 1: Maybe when the making of it I would have been

1823
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:31,200
Speaker 1: interested here, but now it's like something that would be

1824
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 1: the reason that I would do it. Uh. You know

1825
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:35,479
Speaker 1: remember how I began. You want to you want to

1826
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:38,120
Speaker 1: see some full circle? Right? You want to see it

1827
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:40,760
Speaker 1: like Uh, as long as you're gonna allow me to

1828
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 1: to do a concluding question, you can including questions you

1829
01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:46,760
Speaker 1: want to see me bring something full circle. Remember how

1830
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:53,960
Speaker 1: earlier I mentioned uh Ian Frasier, what did I say

1831
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:56,439
Speaker 1: about the in Fraser earlier? He starts his books with

1832
01:53:57,080 --> 01:53:58,800
Speaker 1: he likes to tell people right away in his books

1833
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 1: about there about he thinks to will start reading the book.

1834
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 1: They want to know what. They don't want to wait

1835
01:54:02,080 --> 01:54:04,920
Speaker 1: to find out what it's about. He also told me

1836
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:08,679
Speaker 1: this when he's right. He's a nonfiction writer. When he's

1837
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:12,080
Speaker 1: writing and he's profiling people, he'll get this feeling that

1838
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:15,759
Speaker 1: they're not gonna like what he's writing, and he always

1839
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:20,640
Speaker 1: um mitigates that by getting a very flattering physical description

1840
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:27,400
Speaker 1: of them. Where she says usually can undoes any harm.

1841
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:29,519
Speaker 1: They're like, you know, I really like that. You know,

1842
01:54:31,479 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 1: I likes what you had to say about our conversation. Uh,

1843
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:37,360
Speaker 1: I didn't need to do that with you guys, because

1844
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:41,240
Speaker 1: it's a movie, and so people can see just how

1845
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 1: wonderful you all are by going to Vimeo and watching

1846
01:54:45,880 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 1: Stars in the Sky. That was that is, that's from

1847
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 1: years of That's why you do it. And just picture

1848
01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:01,200
Speaker 1: him with a little more grain and Doug just imagine

1849
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:04,040
Speaker 1: you see Doug now, just imagined him when he looked younger.

1850
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:06,080
Speaker 1: It'd be it would be even better if you just

1851
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 1: went to Stars in the Sky film dot com and

1852
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:11,440
Speaker 1: bought it there, wash it there. That was a little

1853
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:15,400
Speaker 1: more blunt. We could, but then we can we could

1854
01:55:15,440 --> 01:55:17,640
Speaker 1: track here, We could track your watching better, and we

1855
01:55:17,680 --> 01:55:19,960
Speaker 1: could report numbers to people that give a ship and

1856
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:23,360
Speaker 1: it would help us out. So Stars in the Sky

1857
01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:27,080
Speaker 1: film dot Com you told me when you first started

1858
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 1: doing this that, like, really the end goal was to

1859
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:33,320
Speaker 1: do it well enough so that you would be allowed

1860
01:55:33,400 --> 01:55:36,240
Speaker 1: to make another one. That's the wardy Allen Maxim. Yes,

1861
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:38,520
Speaker 1: but you have his movies were good enough that they

1862
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:41,320
Speaker 1: let him make another one. But you thought that that

1863
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 1: would be like a measure of success. Yeah, so do

1864
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 1: we know that now or if not, how long will

1865
01:55:48,200 --> 01:55:50,920
Speaker 1: it be until we know? I'll make another movie. I'll

1866
01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:56,480
Speaker 1: make another movie. Um, but just my circumstances are such that,

1867
01:55:56,880 --> 01:56:00,040
Speaker 1: like it doesn't matter. I'll just find a way I

1868
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:02,400
Speaker 1: would like to make it on a movie. And uh, yeah,

1869
01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 1: all right, I'll write more books and I'm gonna make

1870
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 1: another movie. I don't know if it's gonna because someone

1871
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:11,760
Speaker 1: let me, or if it's gonna want someone let me.

1872
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:13,880
Speaker 1: What's gonna want to be because I went and did it?

1873
01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love it. That's my favorite. Um. If

1874
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:21,120
Speaker 1: I if I had to be honest with you, if

1875
01:56:21,160 --> 01:56:25,000
Speaker 1: I had to pick up medium a medium, if God

1876
01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:26,360
Speaker 1: came down and put a gun to my head and

1877
01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:31,120
Speaker 1: made me pick a one medium, one thing that I

1878
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:33,080
Speaker 1: could take in for the rest of my life, it

1879
01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:36,080
Speaker 1: would be films. And if he really subdivided it out,

1880
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 1: I would say documentaries. H yeah, because even if I

1881
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:42,880
Speaker 1: went blind, I could still listen to him, and if

1882
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:45,720
Speaker 1: I went deaf, I could watch him. Good point. Tell

1883
01:56:45,760 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 1: him that website again, Yanni Stars Film dot Com. Al Right, everyone,

1884
01:56:52,680 --> 01:56:54,480
Speaker 1: thank you so much guys for coming down I really

1885
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:57,480
Speaker 1: do love you guys, and you people listening. I meant

1886
01:56:57,520 --> 01:56:58,960
Speaker 1: I was talking about these guys, but you guys do

1887
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:02,240
Speaker 1: not don't know them, But you'd love him if you

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01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:02,840
Speaker 1: got to know him.