WEBVTT - Facebook’s Former Employees Open Up About the Data Scandal

0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.360
<v Speaker 1>The past two weeks have been some of the most

0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:08.039
<v Speaker 1>devastating for Facebook. The Federal Trade Commission has confirmed it

0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:13.240
<v Speaker 1>is investigating Facebook's privacy practices. Facebook stock dropping even lower

0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.760
<v Speaker 1>in the fallout, and this morning, Facebook executives are heading

0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the Capitol Hill. Can Mark Zuckerberg keep both advertisers and

0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:25.079
<v Speaker 1>lawmakers happy? Many of you will know the highlights by now.

0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.720
<v Speaker 1>There's that political consulting firm called Cambridge Analytica, which got

0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.480
<v Speaker 1>information on fifty million Facebook users, mostly without their permission,

0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.040
<v Speaker 1>and they later went on to advise Donald Trump on

0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:42.000
<v Speaker 1>its presidential campaign. Cambridge Analytica told Facebook that it deleted

0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.239
<v Speaker 1>the data, then two weeks ago stories in The Guardian

0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.720
<v Speaker 1>and The New York Times declared that it didn't. People

0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:53.000
<v Speaker 1>were so furious they started deleting their Facebook profiles, and

0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.600
<v Speaker 1>as of this taping, Facebook stock lost tens of billions

0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:02.360
<v Speaker 1>of dollars in value. Inside Faceboo's headquarters in Menlo Park,

0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.559
<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere right now is pretty tense. Employees are distracted,

0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.120
<v Speaker 1>reading the news, mingling in small groups to whisper about

0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.759
<v Speaker 1>the latest one the crisis. Many of them joined Facebook

0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.000
<v Speaker 1>because they felt like it was doing something really good

0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.479
<v Speaker 1>for the world. It had a mission everyone believed in,

0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.679
<v Speaker 1>but now some of them aren't so sure. For both

0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 1>current and former Facebook employees, this is not just about

0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Cambridge Analytica. It's become this moment of reckoning, of realizing

0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.320
<v Speaker 1>this immense power that Facebook now holds and the responsibilities

0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:52.320
<v Speaker 1>of that. Hi Imako and I'm Sarah Friar, and this

0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.840
<v Speaker 1>week on Decrypted, we're going to hear from a number

0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.800
<v Speaker 1>of former insiders at the social network. We the public

0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.200
<v Speaker 1>are still discovering things that Facebook really does with our data,

0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.160
<v Speaker 1>and for a lot of people, the realizations have been

0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.520
<v Speaker 1>a little shocking some of them. Value with its tight

0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.280
<v Speaker 1>knit community, can be a hard place to speak out.

0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.520
<v Speaker 1>That's especially the case for people who've worked for Facebook.

0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.720
<v Speaker 1>But now after a series of controversies, some former employees

0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.760
<v Speaker 1>are starting to air their hesitations and criticisms in public.

0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.720
<v Speaker 1>And with that, we're getting our first peek into the

0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:38.000
<v Speaker 1>culture that led to Facebook's crisis. Today, stay with us, So, Sarah,

0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.880
<v Speaker 1>let's start with some context back a couple of years ago.

0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Is incredibly unusual for a former employee to criticize Facebook publicly. Yeah,

0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.919
<v Speaker 1>Facebook has this culture where they really wanted to feel

0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.120
<v Speaker 1>like a family, and you're given access to all this

0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.160
<v Speaker 1>non public information about the company roadmap, so employees feel

0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.919
<v Speaker 1>an immense responsibility to keep it safe your Facebook friends,

0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.519
<v Speaker 1>with all your coworkers. If you speak to the press,

0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.680
<v Speaker 1>you're hurting the family, right, And the company is known

0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.760
<v Speaker 1>for searching for leakers. Zacher Berry actually announces at all

0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.120
<v Speaker 1>hands meetings when someone who leaked gets fired, and sometimes

0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.440
<v Speaker 1>people applaud. Employees are told that once they leave, they're

0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.720
<v Speaker 1>still part of the Facebook family, which has extensive reach

0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.600
<v Speaker 1>and influence across the Silicon Valley, so don't screw it up.

0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.560
<v Speaker 1>But we did start to see more people speak up

0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:31.119
<v Speaker 1>right after Trump won the election in the fall of right.

0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.519
<v Speaker 1>So Facebook is headquartered right here in the Bay Area,

0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.680
<v Speaker 1>which is a very progressive place, so a lot of

0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>people who worked at Facebook lean towards the liberal side too. Yeah,

0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.200
<v Speaker 1>and they wondered if they are, in tiny or big ways,

0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.120
<v Speaker 1>partly responsible for Trump's victory. This is something we covered

0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.720
<v Speaker 1>on the show in an episode back then, and people

0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.560
<v Speaker 1>have been talking about it since. I've spoken to a

0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.920
<v Speaker 1>lot of former and current employees over the last year

0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.120
<v Speaker 1>and a half who are definitely they're grappling with this

0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.240
<v Speaker 1>question in pretty personal ways. They're facing questions from their

0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.880
<v Speaker 1>own friends about whether Facebook has been doing the right thing.

0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.800
<v Speaker 1>And we've seen that with fake news and Russia's manipulation

0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.720
<v Speaker 1>of the election. And you've had a very busy job

0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.360
<v Speaker 1>over the last year and a half. It's been a

0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:24.680
<v Speaker 1>little crazy. At the end of last year, to moth

0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Paula Hapatia, he's now a high profile investor, but used

0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to be a key executive in Facebook's early days of growth.

0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.320
<v Speaker 1>He talked to a group of Stanford University students about

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:43.839
<v Speaker 1>some soul searching he was doing. I feel tremendous guilt. Um.

0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I think we I think we all knew in the

0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.479
<v Speaker 1>back of our minds, even though we feigned this whole

0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:55.000
<v Speaker 1>line of like there probably aren't any really bad, unintended consequences.

0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.080
<v Speaker 1>I think in the back, deep, deep recesses of our minds,

0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:04.960
<v Speaker 1>we we kind of new something bad could happen. Chama

0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.080
<v Speaker 1>was talking to a pretty small audience, but these comments

0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:12.400
<v Speaker 1>just blew up in the media. He probably wasn't expecting it.

0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Since he's a good friend of the management team at Facebook.

0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.960
<v Speaker 1>You can imagine he got a lot of calls and

0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>text after that. Because he then made this strange appearance

0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.880
<v Speaker 1>on TV where he said he wasn't talking about Facebook,

0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.159
<v Speaker 1>he was talking about social media in general. It's not

0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.440
<v Speaker 1>like he was trying to walk it all back. Jam

0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.080
<v Speaker 1>isn't the only one who made his name off Facebook

0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.239
<v Speaker 1>and is talking about them now. Sean Parker, who joined

0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg in Facebook's earliest days and was the president

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.440
<v Speaker 1>of the company for a while. A huge chunk of

0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.479
<v Speaker 1>his wealth comes from his time at Facebook, and he

0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.159
<v Speaker 1>said last year that these tools were built to psychologically

0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.760
<v Speaker 1>manipulate people. Just In Rosenstein. He's the guy who's credited

0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.320
<v Speaker 1>with inventing Facebook's like button. No words about technology addiction

0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and Chris Hughes, one of Facebook's co founders, talked of

0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Limberg in an interview that was taped a couple of

0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.479
<v Speaker 1>months ago. I think Mark in particular has been really

0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:11.479
<v Speaker 1>clear about Facebook's responsibility in the election and has taken

0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.200
<v Speaker 1>stock of his own responsibility to think about how Facebook

0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.799
<v Speaker 1>influences our politics and our culture, and the recent changes

0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:20.240
<v Speaker 1>with the news feed and some of the other things

0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.599
<v Speaker 1>that they're doing are a reflection of that. But the

0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.919
<v Speaker 1>first step is understanding that that responsibility exists and I think,

0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.920
<v Speaker 1>at least in Facebook's case, there's an embrace of that.

0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Then two weeks ago, the criticism around Facebook notched into

0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.080
<v Speaker 1>higher gear after the news broke that Cambridge Analytica still

0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.760
<v Speaker 1>had the data it improperly obtained millions of people. More

0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.640
<v Speaker 1>people came forward to voice their criticism of Facebook. One

0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.320
<v Speaker 1>vocal critic has been Sandy Parkles. His job was to

0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.599
<v Speaker 1>address data privacy issues with regards to all the external

0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.520
<v Speaker 1>apps that get access to our data on Facebook when

0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.560
<v Speaker 1>we log in using Facebook. Right after the Cambridge Analytica

0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.720
<v Speaker 1>scandal broke, Sandy wrote an op ed in the Washington

0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Post apparently in two thousand twelve, way before Cambridge Analytica

0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.600
<v Speaker 1>harvested the data on the millions of users, he tried

0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.240
<v Speaker 1>to warn Facebook's executives about the lack of protections that

0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.240
<v Speaker 1>were in place. Sandy taped this interview with PBSS Frontline

0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.880
<v Speaker 1>before the scandal broke because I had been the main

0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:30.680
<v Speaker 1>person who was working on uh privacy issues with respect

0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.800
<v Speaker 1>to Facebook platform, which had many, many, many privacy issues.

0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.040
<v Speaker 1>It was it was a real hornets nest of problems

0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.200
<v Speaker 1>because they were giving access to all this Facebook data

0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.360
<v Speaker 1>to developers with very few controls. Sandy was actually a

0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.880
<v Speaker 1>musician before he decided to go back to grad school

0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.920
<v Speaker 1>and get into tech, and this was his first job

0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:56.560
<v Speaker 1>in the tech industry. Due to i'd say organizational chaos

0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and you know, a lack of prioritization of privacy, ended

0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.520
<v Speaker 1>up being me, what did you think about that? At

0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.400
<v Speaker 1>the time, I was horrified. I didn't think it always qualified.

0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Did you say that to anybody? I did? Yeah, I did,

0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.440
<v Speaker 1>And the response I got back was basically, you know,

0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:19.600
<v Speaker 1>don't you think this is important? It was essentially people

0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.920
<v Speaker 1>above me didn't want to be on the hook for this.

0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.120
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to another former Facebook employee, someone who joined

0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.120
<v Speaker 1>long after Sandy left. His name is Kevin Lee, and

0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.559
<v Speaker 1>when he was at Facebook, he worked on global spam operations.

0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.000
<v Speaker 1>This is his first time speaking out about it. My

0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:45.000
<v Speaker 1>team was more focused on the mass scale of these things,

0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.160
<v Speaker 1>so it's really around bought attacks and really mass creation

0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.840
<v Speaker 1>of either of fake profiles or the mass kind of

0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:58.280
<v Speaker 1>takeover of legitimate accounts to spread either misinformation or scams.

0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Kevin started at Spoke in November and left the company

0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:07.679
<v Speaker 1>two years later right after the presidential election. The focus

0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of the current scandal how app developers were able to

0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.920
<v Speaker 1>access data on millions of people. Well, that fell outside

0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.199
<v Speaker 1>of Kevin's purview, but still he was able to see

0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.280
<v Speaker 1>that Facebook wasn't in the habit of enforcing its terms

0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.480
<v Speaker 1>and conditions with developers. In this case, hindsight is here.

0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.080
<v Speaker 1>I think the biggest area that was not adhered to

0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.839
<v Speaker 1>or not given enough attention was specifically around the enforcement

0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.920
<v Speaker 1>of developer policies. So the developer policies were changed to

0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.840
<v Speaker 1>be more private and kind of keep user information more

0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.840
<v Speaker 1>secure and more kind of private. However, there wasn't enough

0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.960
<v Speaker 1>enforcement in my opinion, in terms of Okay, now that

0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.040
<v Speaker 1>we've changed our policies, are we really are we double

0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.120
<v Speaker 1>checking to make sure that the people that had access

0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.200
<v Speaker 1>to this data prior have deleted it or have taken

0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the necessary steps to remove it. I don't think from

0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.280
<v Speaker 1>a enforcement standpoint that was there was enough attention paid there.

0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.640
<v Speaker 1>So when you were at Facebook, why do you why

0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.520
<v Speaker 1>do you think they didn't devote more resources into enforcements.

0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can hypothesize that's really more of a

0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:24.079
<v Speaker 1>developer um community question. I think there were resources devoted

0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.640
<v Speaker 1>to it, but there's always a trade off in terms

0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.400
<v Speaker 1>of Okay, we want to open up our developer APIs,

0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.800
<v Speaker 1>we want to grow the company, and oftentimes there's this

0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:38.760
<v Speaker 1>trade off between security and privacy versus opening up the

0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:43.040
<v Speaker 1>platform and making it as viral or really addictive as possible.

0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.360
<v Speaker 1>And some of those decisions, um, maybe we're made more

0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.520
<v Speaker 1>on the growth side of things, and UH as a

0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.120
<v Speaker 1>result opened them up to more potential exposure to some

0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:58.760
<v Speaker 1>case just like this. This is actually something that I've

0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.119
<v Speaker 1>heard a lot from other form we're in current employees

0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.520
<v Speaker 1>that Facebook prioritize growing its user base over other needs

0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.839
<v Speaker 1>like securing user data. There was a internal model at

0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Facebook and it's been published. The mottel was like move

0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.640
<v Speaker 1>fast and break things, and that was very much a

0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.559
<v Speaker 1>mantra that the company followed for years. I think, I

0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:25.040
<v Speaker 1>mean it's shifted a bit, but essentially, unfortunately in this case,

0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.640
<v Speaker 1>the company did move fast and what it broke was

0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.880
<v Speaker 1>really user trust and now there's a lot of repair

0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:33.959
<v Speaker 1>work and a lot of goodwill that needs to be

0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 1>build again. For some people, the public criticism of Facebook

0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.480
<v Speaker 1>put them in a pretty awkward position. This is what

0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 1>one former employee, Brett Taylor, told her colleague Emily Chang

0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg TV. You have people like Brian Acton, the

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.760
<v Speaker 1>co founder of WhatsApp, which Facebook bought for twenty billion dollars,

0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.679
<v Speaker 1>saying to delete Facebook, and other former Facebook insiders, you know,

0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.200
<v Speaker 1>really talking about out the potential threats of the social network.

0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Are you in that camp? You know? I I have

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 1>a great deal of you know, personal connection and loyalty

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.000
<v Speaker 1>to that company, So it is obviously sort of uncomfortable

0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.320
<v Speaker 1>for me to talk about. The thing I would say

0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.439
<v Speaker 1>is that I do think that it's the right way

0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.360
<v Speaker 1>to think about it. Is that these technologies have changed

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of the landscape of our society. Um, you know,

0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.839
<v Speaker 1>everything from the smartphone. We can call that the artful dodge. Well,

0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.520
<v Speaker 1>even with more people speaking up, there's still this expectation

0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 1>to keep your agreements as private. There are two things

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 1>that happened just this week that illustrate this. So I

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 1>got a tip on a project and I asked a

0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.840
<v Speaker 1>current employee about it. Everyone at Facebook has access to

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 1>all of this information internally, but he was afraid to

0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>even search for the code name I gave him because

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Facebook would be able to see his query. No, he

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.920
<v Speaker 1>talked to me and fire him. I told him don't

0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:59.520
<v Speaker 1>worry about it. I don't want you to get fired.

0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>In another case, a former employee posted online that they'd

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 1>be able to help people understand the Cambridge Analytica scandal.

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 1>The post didn't stay up very long. They've removed it

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 1>when Facebook sent them and note reminding them of their

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 1>contractual confidentiality agreement. So Facebook had someone following all this

0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 1>internet chatter seems like it, but some people in Facebook's

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 1>community do see a silver lining to the crises that

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.559
<v Speaker 1>the company has gone through, like Michael Hofflinger. He worked

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.480
<v Speaker 1>on ads at Facebook and went on to write a

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 1>book about the company. Michael told me that he hopes

0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 1>this could be a lesson that will make Facebook a

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.679
<v Speaker 1>better company in the future, you know, and I hope

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.320
<v Speaker 1>that in this discussion, in the critique that's coming, especially

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.280
<v Speaker 1>from folks that have been inside of Facebook, that the

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.959
<v Speaker 1>objective really is to get to a future where we

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:57.120
<v Speaker 1>become smarter at how we build, more empathetic about how

0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>we build, not about not building. And Facebook has already

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 1>announced some changes. There was a big one just this

0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 1>week about how they're limiting the third party data that

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 1>advertisers can use to target people on the network. This

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 1>is something that could actually make it harder for advertisers

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.080
<v Speaker 1>to use Facebook. That's not usually the direction they move in. Yeah,

0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 1>it means less money for Facebook, right right, It could

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 1>potentially mean that. And then there is, according to my sources,

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 1>just this in depth review happening at Facebook and every

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 1>team going through all the different data uses of every

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.240
<v Speaker 1>part of Facebook and figuring out if those are actually necessary,

0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 1>like do we need this data in order to create

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 1>a better user experience. So I'm sure we're going to

0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 1>keep learning more of the next few weeks, and publicly,

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 1>we're going to hear from CEO Mark Zuckerberg testifying in

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.800
<v Speaker 1>front of Congress pretty soon. We don't know exactly when,

0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>but it'll happen. What's the number one thing you'll be

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 1>looking for in that testimony. I just think it's going

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to be so difficult for him because a lot of

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 1>these questions are about things Facebook did wrong so many

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>years ago, and the way somebody explained it to me.

0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 1>One of the users I talked to actually explained to

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the best. He said, it's like toothpaste out of the tube,

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 1>like the data that Facebook shared with developers way back

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 1>when they are not able to tell Congress today where

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 1>that data is now. There was no like auditing that

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 1>happened back then to try to chart this out. So

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>zach Arberg is going to go to Congress and he's

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>going to be explaining how far Facebook has come and

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 1>protecting its users, and he has to hope that that

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 1>will be enough. You know, ahead of this episode, we

0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>asked our listeners to send in their own questions for

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg. We'll close our episode today with a couple

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 1>of our favorites. Rebecca goose Man from Burlston, Texas. Why

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 1>should we stay on your platform after your company violated

0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 1>the trust and I have to see of millions of users. Hi,

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 1>my name's Marcus. I'm from Germany and my question is

0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Mrs Lackaberg. How can you justify deliberately deceiving all of

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.760
<v Speaker 1>your users to get access to their private information even

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 1>though your apps and the disclaim is involved a delusive

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>and non exhaustive referring to the excessive amounts of data

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 1>that you actually collect. Greg Wall. At the end of

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 1>the day, Mark, will you and your product be a

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 1>tool for greater good or a tool for mass surveillance?

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>This is Paul Johnson from Pennsylvania, Sincerely, at night, when

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 1>it's you got an a pillow? Do you ever think

0:16:37.560 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>that anything that you've done is wrong? And then for

0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 1>this week's episode of Decrypted, thanks for listening. We'd love

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.680
<v Speaker 1>to hear what you thought of today's show. You can

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>email us at Decrypted at bloomberg dot net, or you

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>can find me on Twitter at Sarah Fryar and I've

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 1>met aki Eto seven. If you haven't already, we hope

0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 1>you'll subscribe to Decrypted wherever you get your podcasts, and

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>while you're there, please leave us a rating in a review.

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>I read all of them as they come in, and

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.480
<v Speaker 1>they really help us reach more listeners. This episode was

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.040
<v Speaker 1>produced by Pia gut Car, Liz Smith, and Magnus Hendrickson.

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Francesca Levy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. We'll see

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 1>you next week.