1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: The past two weeks have been some of the most 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: devastating for Facebook. The Federal Trade Commission has confirmed it 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: is investigating Facebook's privacy practices. Facebook stock dropping even lower 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: in the fallout, and this morning, Facebook executives are heading 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: the Capitol Hill. Can Mark Zuckerberg keep both advertisers and 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: lawmakers happy? Many of you will know the highlights by now. 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: There's that political consulting firm called Cambridge Analytica, which got 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: information on fifty million Facebook users, mostly without their permission, 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: and they later went on to advise Donald Trump on 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: its presidential campaign. Cambridge Analytica told Facebook that it deleted 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: the data, then two weeks ago stories in The Guardian 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: and The New York Times declared that it didn't. People 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: were so furious they started deleting their Facebook profiles, and 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: as of this taping, Facebook stock lost tens of billions 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: of dollars in value. Inside Faceboo's headquarters in Menlo Park, 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: the atmosphere right now is pretty tense. Employees are distracted, 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: reading the news, mingling in small groups to whisper about 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: the latest one the crisis. Many of them joined Facebook 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: because they felt like it was doing something really good 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: for the world. It had a mission everyone believed in, 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: but now some of them aren't so sure. For both 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: current and former Facebook employees, this is not just about 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: Cambridge Analytica. It's become this moment of reckoning, of realizing 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: this immense power that Facebook now holds and the responsibilities 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: of that. Hi Imako and I'm Sarah Friar, and this 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: week on Decrypted, we're going to hear from a number 27 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: of former insiders at the social network. We the public 28 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: are still discovering things that Facebook really does with our data, 29 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: and for a lot of people, the realizations have been 30 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: a little shocking some of them. Value with its tight 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: knit community, can be a hard place to speak out. 32 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: That's especially the case for people who've worked for Facebook. 33 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: But now after a series of controversies, some former employees 34 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: are starting to air their hesitations and criticisms in public. 35 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: And with that, we're getting our first peek into the 36 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: culture that led to Facebook's crisis. Today, stay with us, So, Sarah, 37 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: let's start with some context back a couple of years ago. 38 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: Is incredibly unusual for a former employee to criticize Facebook publicly. Yeah, 39 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: Facebook has this culture where they really wanted to feel 40 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: like a family, and you're given access to all this 41 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: non public information about the company roadmap, so employees feel 42 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: an immense responsibility to keep it safe your Facebook friends, 43 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: with all your coworkers. If you speak to the press, 44 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: you're hurting the family, right, And the company is known 45 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: for searching for leakers. Zacher Berry actually announces at all 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: hands meetings when someone who leaked gets fired, and sometimes 47 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: people applaud. Employees are told that once they leave, they're 48 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: still part of the Facebook family, which has extensive reach 49 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: and influence across the Silicon Valley, so don't screw it up. 50 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: But we did start to see more people speak up 51 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,119 Speaker 1: right after Trump won the election in the fall of right. 52 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: So Facebook is headquartered right here in the Bay Area, 53 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: which is a very progressive place, so a lot of 54 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: people who worked at Facebook lean towards the liberal side too. Yeah, 55 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: and they wondered if they are, in tiny or big ways, 56 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: partly responsible for Trump's victory. This is something we covered 57 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: on the show in an episode back then, and people 58 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: have been talking about it since. I've spoken to a 59 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of former and current employees over the last year 60 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: and a half who are definitely they're grappling with this 61 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: question in pretty personal ways. They're facing questions from their 62 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: own friends about whether Facebook has been doing the right thing. 63 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: And we've seen that with fake news and Russia's manipulation 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: of the election. And you've had a very busy job 65 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: over the last year and a half. It's been a 66 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: little crazy. At the end of last year, to moth 67 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: Paula Hapatia, he's now a high profile investor, but used 68 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: to be a key executive in Facebook's early days of growth. 69 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: He talked to a group of Stanford University students about 70 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: some soul searching he was doing. I feel tremendous guilt. Um. 71 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: I think we I think we all knew in the 72 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: back of our minds, even though we feigned this whole 73 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: line of like there probably aren't any really bad, unintended consequences. 74 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: I think in the back, deep, deep recesses of our minds, 75 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: we we kind of new something bad could happen. Chama 76 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: was talking to a pretty small audience, but these comments 77 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: just blew up in the media. He probably wasn't expecting it. 78 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: Since he's a good friend of the management team at Facebook. 79 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: You can imagine he got a lot of calls and 80 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: text after that. Because he then made this strange appearance 81 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: on TV where he said he wasn't talking about Facebook, 82 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: he was talking about social media in general. It's not 83 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: like he was trying to walk it all back. Jam 84 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: isn't the only one who made his name off Facebook 85 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: and is talking about them now. Sean Parker, who joined 86 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg in Facebook's earliest days and was the president 87 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: of the company for a while. A huge chunk of 88 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: his wealth comes from his time at Facebook, and he 89 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: said last year that these tools were built to psychologically 90 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: manipulate people. Just In Rosenstein. He's the guy who's credited 91 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: with inventing Facebook's like button. No words about technology addiction 92 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: and Chris Hughes, one of Facebook's co founders, talked of 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: Limberg in an interview that was taped a couple of 94 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: months ago. I think Mark in particular has been really 95 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: clear about Facebook's responsibility in the election and has taken 96 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: stock of his own responsibility to think about how Facebook 97 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 1: influences our politics and our culture, and the recent changes 98 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: with the news feed and some of the other things 99 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: that they're doing are a reflection of that. But the 100 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: first step is understanding that that responsibility exists and I think, 101 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: at least in Facebook's case, there's an embrace of that. 102 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: Then two weeks ago, the criticism around Facebook notched into 103 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: higher gear after the news broke that Cambridge Analytica still 104 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: had the data it improperly obtained millions of people. More 105 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: people came forward to voice their criticism of Facebook. One 106 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: vocal critic has been Sandy Parkles. His job was to 107 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: address data privacy issues with regards to all the external 108 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: apps that get access to our data on Facebook when 109 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: we log in using Facebook. Right after the Cambridge Analytica 110 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: scandal broke, Sandy wrote an op ed in the Washington 111 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: Post apparently in two thousand twelve, way before Cambridge Analytica 112 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: harvested the data on the millions of users, he tried 113 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: to warn Facebook's executives about the lack of protections that 114 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: were in place. Sandy taped this interview with PBSS Frontline 115 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: before the scandal broke because I had been the main 116 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: person who was working on uh privacy issues with respect 117 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: to Facebook platform, which had many, many, many privacy issues. 118 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: It was it was a real hornets nest of problems 119 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: because they were giving access to all this Facebook data 120 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: to developers with very few controls. Sandy was actually a 121 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: musician before he decided to go back to grad school 122 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: and get into tech, and this was his first job 123 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: in the tech industry. Due to i'd say organizational chaos 124 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: and you know, a lack of prioritization of privacy, ended 125 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: up being me, what did you think about that? At 126 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: the time, I was horrified. I didn't think it always qualified. 127 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: Did you say that to anybody? I did? Yeah, I did, 128 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: And the response I got back was basically, you know, 129 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: don't you think this is important? It was essentially people 130 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: above me didn't want to be on the hook for this. 131 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: I spoke to another former Facebook employee, someone who joined 132 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: long after Sandy left. His name is Kevin Lee, and 133 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: when he was at Facebook, he worked on global spam operations. 134 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: This is his first time speaking out about it. My 135 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: team was more focused on the mass scale of these things, 136 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: so it's really around bought attacks and really mass creation 137 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: of either of fake profiles or the mass kind of 138 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: takeover of legitimate accounts to spread either misinformation or scams. 139 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: Kevin started at Spoke in November and left the company 140 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: two years later right after the presidential election. The focus 141 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: of the current scandal how app developers were able to 142 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: access data on millions of people. Well, that fell outside 143 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: of Kevin's purview, but still he was able to see 144 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: that Facebook wasn't in the habit of enforcing its terms 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: and conditions with developers. In this case, hindsight is here. 146 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: I think the biggest area that was not adhered to 147 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 1: or not given enough attention was specifically around the enforcement 148 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: of developer policies. So the developer policies were changed to 149 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: be more private and kind of keep user information more 150 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: secure and more kind of private. However, there wasn't enough 151 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: enforcement in my opinion, in terms of Okay, now that 152 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: we've changed our policies, are we really are we double 153 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: checking to make sure that the people that had access 154 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: to this data prior have deleted it or have taken 155 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: the necessary steps to remove it. I don't think from 156 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: a enforcement standpoint that was there was enough attention paid there. 157 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: So when you were at Facebook, why do you why 158 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: do you think they didn't devote more resources into enforcements. 159 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I can hypothesize that's really more of a 160 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: developer um community question. I think there were resources devoted 161 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: to it, but there's always a trade off in terms 162 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: of Okay, we want to open up our developer APIs, 163 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: we want to grow the company, and oftentimes there's this 164 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: trade off between security and privacy versus opening up the 165 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: platform and making it as viral or really addictive as possible. 166 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: And some of those decisions, um, maybe we're made more 167 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: on the growth side of things, and UH as a 168 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: result opened them up to more potential exposure to some 169 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: case just like this. This is actually something that I've 170 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,119 Speaker 1: heard a lot from other form we're in current employees 171 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: that Facebook prioritize growing its user base over other needs 172 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: like securing user data. There was a internal model at 173 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: Facebook and it's been published. The mottel was like move 174 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: fast and break things, and that was very much a 175 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: mantra that the company followed for years. I think, I 176 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: mean it's shifted a bit, but essentially, unfortunately in this case, 177 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: the company did move fast and what it broke was 178 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: really user trust and now there's a lot of repair 179 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: work and a lot of goodwill that needs to be 180 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: build again. For some people, the public criticism of Facebook 181 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: put them in a pretty awkward position. This is what 182 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: one former employee, Brett Taylor, told her colleague Emily Chang 183 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg TV. You have people like Brian Acton, the 184 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: co founder of WhatsApp, which Facebook bought for twenty billion dollars, 185 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: saying to delete Facebook, and other former Facebook insiders, you know, 186 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: really talking about out the potential threats of the social network. 187 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: Are you in that camp? You know? I I have 188 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: a great deal of you know, personal connection and loyalty 189 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: to that company, So it is obviously sort of uncomfortable 190 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: for me to talk about. The thing I would say 191 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: is that I do think that it's the right way 192 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: to think about it. Is that these technologies have changed 193 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: sort of the landscape of our society. Um, you know, 194 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: everything from the smartphone. We can call that the artful dodge. Well, 195 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: even with more people speaking up, there's still this expectation 196 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: to keep your agreements as private. There are two things 197 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: that happened just this week that illustrate this. So I 198 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: got a tip on a project and I asked a 199 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: current employee about it. Everyone at Facebook has access to 200 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: all of this information internally, but he was afraid to 201 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: even search for the code name I gave him because 202 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: Facebook would be able to see his query. No, he 203 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: talked to me and fire him. I told him don't 204 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: worry about it. I don't want you to get fired. 205 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: In another case, a former employee posted online that they'd 206 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: be able to help people understand the Cambridge Analytica scandal. 207 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: The post didn't stay up very long. They've removed it 208 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: when Facebook sent them and note reminding them of their 209 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: contractual confidentiality agreement. So Facebook had someone following all this 210 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: internet chatter seems like it, but some people in Facebook's 211 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: community do see a silver lining to the crises that 212 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: the company has gone through, like Michael Hofflinger. He worked 213 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: on ads at Facebook and went on to write a 214 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: book about the company. Michael told me that he hopes 215 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: this could be a lesson that will make Facebook a 216 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: better company in the future, you know, and I hope 217 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: that in this discussion, in the critique that's coming, especially 218 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: from folks that have been inside of Facebook, that the 219 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: objective really is to get to a future where we 220 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: become smarter at how we build, more empathetic about how 221 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: we build, not about not building. And Facebook has already 222 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: announced some changes. There was a big one just this 223 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: week about how they're limiting the third party data that 224 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: advertisers can use to target people on the network. This 225 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: is something that could actually make it harder for advertisers 226 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: to use Facebook. That's not usually the direction they move in. Yeah, 227 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: it means less money for Facebook, right right, It could 228 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: potentially mean that. And then there is, according to my sources, 229 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: just this in depth review happening at Facebook and every 230 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: team going through all the different data uses of every 231 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: part of Facebook and figuring out if those are actually necessary, 232 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: like do we need this data in order to create 233 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: a better user experience. So I'm sure we're going to 234 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: keep learning more of the next few weeks, and publicly, 235 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: we're going to hear from CEO Mark Zuckerberg testifying in 236 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: front of Congress pretty soon. We don't know exactly when, 237 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: but it'll happen. What's the number one thing you'll be 238 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: looking for in that testimony. I just think it's going 239 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: to be so difficult for him because a lot of 240 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: these questions are about things Facebook did wrong so many 241 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: years ago, and the way somebody explained it to me. 242 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: One of the users I talked to actually explained to 243 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: the best. He said, it's like toothpaste out of the tube, 244 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: like the data that Facebook shared with developers way back 245 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: when they are not able to tell Congress today where 246 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: that data is now. There was no like auditing that 247 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: happened back then to try to chart this out. So 248 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: zach Arberg is going to go to Congress and he's 249 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: going to be explaining how far Facebook has come and 250 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: protecting its users, and he has to hope that that 251 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: will be enough. You know, ahead of this episode, we 252 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: asked our listeners to send in their own questions for 253 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg. We'll close our episode today with a couple 254 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: of our favorites. Rebecca goose Man from Burlston, Texas. Why 255 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: should we stay on your platform after your company violated 256 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: the trust and I have to see of millions of users. Hi, 257 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: my name's Marcus. I'm from Germany and my question is 258 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: Mrs Lackaberg. How can you justify deliberately deceiving all of 259 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: your users to get access to their private information even 260 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: though your apps and the disclaim is involved a delusive 261 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: and non exhaustive referring to the excessive amounts of data 262 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: that you actually collect. Greg Wall. At the end of 263 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: the day, Mark, will you and your product be a 264 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: tool for greater good or a tool for mass surveillance? 265 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: This is Paul Johnson from Pennsylvania, Sincerely, at night, when 266 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: it's you got an a pillow? Do you ever think 267 00:16:37,560 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: that anything that you've done is wrong? And then for 268 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: this week's episode of Decrypted, thanks for listening. We'd love 269 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: to hear what you thought of today's show. You can 270 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: email us at Decrypted at bloomberg dot net, or you 271 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Sarah Fryar and I've 272 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: met aki Eto seven. If you haven't already, we hope 273 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: you'll subscribe to Decrypted wherever you get your podcasts, and 274 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: while you're there, please leave us a rating in a review. 275 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: I read all of them as they come in, and 276 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: they really help us reach more listeners. This episode was 277 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: produced by Pia gut Car, Liz Smith, and Magnus Hendrickson. 278 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: Francesca Levy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. We'll see 279 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: you next week.