Speaker 1: Tis League record bring.
Speaker 2: We will see you to.
Speaker 3: The Gunner Welcome hang out, Welcome to the Just Baseball Show.
Speaker 3: It is Wednesday, July eighth. That's arm Lighton. I am
Speaker 3: Peter Rapple and today an absolutely loaded show. Unfortunately, Justin
Speaker 3: Berlander is retiring at the end of this season, so
Speaker 3: we are going to you know, talk about his career,
Speaker 3: how it has been and also he was just named
Speaker 3: the Legend pick the American League All Star Team. We're
Speaker 3: also going to talk about.
Speaker 4: Tyler Tolbert and his twelve plate appearance hit streak, what
Speaker 4: tying an MLB record, and the Royals offensive outburst Ryan
Speaker 4: O'Hearn three homers, ten RBIs yesterday.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk Zach Wheeler's dominance and our first
Speaker 3: look at Brewers player Luis Laura. And we're going to
Speaker 3: end it with Mock Draft three point zero with our
Speaker 3: draft guy, Tyler Jennings. And it is all brought to
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Speaker 3: code just Baseball before you make your first pick, because
Speaker 3: if it loses, you'll get whatever you wagered on it
Speaker 3: back in bonus bets. Arm We started off the day
Speaker 3: with some unfortunate news, but when a guy of that
Speaker 3: caliber retires, it's not really unfortunate because of course he's
Speaker 3: getting to the end of his career and we get
Speaker 3: to look back on the unbelievable career of Justin Verlander.
Speaker 3: I remember, on I think it was our last mail bag,
Speaker 3: Jack answered the question of something that he would change
Speaker 3: from the twenty twenties decade, and it was a fully
Speaker 3: healthy Justin Verlander. And at first I was like, ah,
Speaker 3: but then you realize he was banged up for a
Speaker 3: lot of this decade and could have been on pace
Speaker 3: to rack up four thousand innings plus four thousand strikeouts
Speaker 3: plus incredible career already, but what could have been I
Speaker 3: am still thinking about that answer from Jack.
Speaker 2: It's funny though, because at the same time, like he's
Speaker 2: been forty years old since twenty twenty three, so like
Speaker 2: his body is doing what most people's body us. I
Speaker 2: think the craziest part about that, though, is in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, at thirty nine years old, we see Justin
Speaker 2: Verlander come out and give you a one to seven
Speaker 2: five ERA in one hundred and seventy five innings, And
Speaker 2: when I think one of the more like I don't
Speaker 2: want to say improbable signs because this is one of
Speaker 2: the best to ever do it, but just one of
Speaker 2: those side youngs that you're like, no way, he still
Speaker 2: got that in the tank. And that was after missing
Speaker 2: the entire season in twenty twenty one and only throwing
Speaker 2: six innings in twenty twenty so you just never thought
Speaker 2: this would was gonna come out. So you say, okay,
Speaker 2: well he just missed a season and a half. It's
Speaker 2: technically two seasons. But he was only going to rack
Speaker 2: up so many numbers in twenty twenty because of the
Speaker 2: shortened season. That's already a good amount of time missed.
Speaker 2: He comes back and does this, You're like, WHOA, this
Speaker 2: might be like a Nolan Ryan thing. He's just gonna
Speaker 2: he might just throw into his forties and keep having success.
Speaker 2: Even in twenty three he still saw like a really
Speaker 2: serviceable season overall. But I think once once he got
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty four and forty one years old, you
Speaker 2: just tell you really started to feel it there. So
Speaker 2: I do just wonder though, like if we had with
Speaker 2: how good he was in twenty twenty two, what would
Speaker 2: have a full twenty twenty one season have looked like,
Speaker 2: Because and he won the cy Young the next year,
Speaker 2: So I do think about that from like getting closer
Speaker 2: to three hundred wins any of those things, But I
Speaker 2: still think he probably would have been a little bit short.
Speaker 5: At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: He's just been human since he turned forty and and
Speaker 2: that's been I think the part that's it's funny with
Speaker 2: him because he's just so much of his career has
Speaker 2: just not been human. I remember watching the old Sports
Speaker 2: Center highlights and they're doing the game recaps and it
Speaker 2: was you know, in the early I would say, before
Speaker 2: even the twenty ten, two thousand and seven, two thousand
Speaker 2: and two thousand and nine, and when a guy would
Speaker 2: throw one hundred, it would have like the.
Speaker 5: On on the TV.
Speaker 2: It would have like the fire almost like emoji wouldn't
Speaker 2: be the word because emojis weren't even didn't exist, I
Speaker 2: guess really, but like you have the fire icon there
Speaker 2: with one hundred, and it would be like in the
Speaker 2: recaps on Sports Center, he's still touching one hundred in
Speaker 2: the seventh inning, and it was like it was like,
Speaker 2: holy crap, this guy is different and back then throwing
Speaker 2: two forty two hundred and fifty innings, like.
Speaker 5: It really is amazing. This is a guy that, you.
Speaker 2: Know, still throwing the ball technically you know today is
Speaker 2: a guy that has been around long enough and his
Speaker 2: pitch is such a high level too to have had those.
Speaker 5: Two hundred and fifty inning seasons.
Speaker 2: Like he's kind of the last of not really a
Speaker 2: dying breed, like a dead breed at this point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we call it a dying breed. I mean it
Speaker 3: is dead. I mean this type of picture just likely
Speaker 3: will never see again. You won an MVP one Rookie
Speaker 3: of the Year. He's a nine time All Star, three
Speaker 3: time Cy Young Award winner, Triple Crown winner, two time
Speaker 3: World Series Champion. My question to you is not is
Speaker 3: he a Hall of Famer? Do you think he's an
Speaker 3: easy first ballot Hall of favor because in my opinion,
Speaker 3: I don't know anybody who wouldn't vote for him. So
Speaker 3: my thought is he should be unanimous. But there are
Speaker 3: been plenty of incredible players who worn't unanimous. We only
Speaker 3: have one and his name is Marianna Rivera, so he's
Speaker 3: probably not going to be unanimous. So I guess my question,
Speaker 3: and it might be the easiest softball ever thrown. Is
Speaker 3: is he a first ballot easy Hall of Famer?
Speaker 2: Then yeah, I think the question more becomes then like
Speaker 2: how how high of a percentage is this that IM
Speaker 2: going to bring in? And this is where it's so funny,
Speaker 2: like when nine in change years from now, when I
Speaker 2: can vote on the Hall of Fame, Like I have
Speaker 2: a lot of time to figure this out. But the
Speaker 2: unanimous thing is so weird. I mean, we've talked about this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, if you're an obvious Hall of Famer. Everyone
Speaker 2: should vote for the obvious hal of Famer, and if
Speaker 2: that guy is that's everybody's vote, then he's unanimous.
Speaker 5: And I know it's not fair to the.
Speaker 2: People before him because of this weird, uh just just
Speaker 2: kind of decision making process that we just kind of
Speaker 2: created here. I think there should be more unanimous guys,
Speaker 2: because if you I don't know how we're gonna like
Speaker 2: to plan this out, it's like, oh, you're you're gonna
Speaker 2: be the guy that doesn't vote for Verlander this year,
Speaker 2: so we'll have like two or three so he's not unanimous.
Speaker 2: Like what if like five other people think that they're
Speaker 2: the guy that year and now he has like ninety
Speaker 2: six percent of the vote and stead and she should
Speaker 2: have more than that.
Speaker 5: So like, but you go back and there's been guys
Speaker 5: historically they're like, how the hell is it? Like how
Speaker 5: did he not have one hundred percent of the vote.
Speaker 5: There's like thirty forty fifty guys.
Speaker 2: You could say that about we should fix that, Uh,
Speaker 2: but no, I think he should be frankly unanimous. Like
Speaker 2: what's the nitpick here? Like that he didn't win three
Speaker 2: hundred games. That's never gonna happen again. Never So I'm
Speaker 2: not voting for him, no one, No one's gonna even
Speaker 2: get close to two seventy.
Speaker 5: He's a two sixty six.
Speaker 2: Let's hope that he wins a few more games down
Speaker 2: the stretch here if he gets a two seventy. You
Speaker 2: mentioned the MVP and whether you think a Pitcher should
Speaker 2: win it or that one.
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't care he won it. The three
Speaker 5: s youngs.
Speaker 2: The fact that he has won his cy Young's in
Speaker 2: totally different parts of his career too, right, Like one
Speaker 2: is in his prime, the is like what you would
Speaker 2: think is.
Speaker 5: Like the very end of the prime.
Speaker 2: No way, he wins another, and then the other one
Speaker 2: is like back from the dead, I still got it, and.
Speaker 3: He wins it. There.
Speaker 2: So that on top of the one, two, three, three
Speaker 2: runner up finishes, which you could play hairs on on
Speaker 2: so many cy Young Awards where it's like probably should
Speaker 2: have won one or two of those, and then another
Speaker 2: couple top three finishes, won the Rookie of the Year
Speaker 2: as well. I mean, this is one of the more
Speaker 2: decorated careers you're gonna see from Pitcher. He's had the peaks,
Speaker 2: he's had the longevity, he's had the postseason performance, he's
Speaker 2: done it all, and then he's even done the stuff
Speaker 2: that very I few ever have to win the MVP.
Speaker 2: He's done the two hundred and fifty innings, like everything
Speaker 2: that you would reasonably want to see from this guy,
Speaker 2: he's done it. He's done another two hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: six innings in the postseason. It's it's just amazing stuff.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you can maybe nitpick if I so, just
Speaker 2: know someone's gonna be like, he had a five six
Speaker 2: three e AL in the World Series, what average is whatever?
Speaker 2: You may nine starts in the World Series and he's
Speaker 2: won a couple of them.
Speaker 5: Just an amazing career and one of the best to
Speaker 5: ever do it.
Speaker 3: The one seven to five ERA is at thirty nine
Speaker 3: years old, is it almost doesn't compute in my head
Speaker 3: because I'm thinking about right now with Jacob Zarowski rocking
Speaker 3: a one six to two ERA. He gave up three
Speaker 3: earned runs to the Cardinals yesterday and I thought that
Speaker 3: was a terrible start by him. He only struck out
Speaker 3: nine over six innings, raising again his ERA to one
Speaker 3: six to two. Verlander did that over one hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy five innings at thirty nine years old. Incredible. What's
Speaker 3: almost equally is incredible is this Tyler Tolbert hitch twelve
Speaker 3: straight plate appearances with a hit. What and this comes
Speaker 3: to us from Sarah Langs. Tyler Tolbert has a hit
Speaker 3: in twelve consecutive plate appearance that ties the MLB record
Speaker 3: consecutive hits in at bats twelve by Johnny Kling in
Speaker 3: nineteen oh two, Pinky Higgins in ninete teen thirty eight,
Speaker 3: Walt Dropoh in nineteen fifty two, and Jose Miranda in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. I swear on them. I think Sarah
Speaker 3: just made up the first three names. Johnny Kling, Walt Driplow,
Speaker 3: Piggy Higgins. Those seems like names you would make up
Speaker 3: in MLB the Show just in order to be funny.
Speaker 3: But Tyler Tolbert did it. Now. There were some infield
Speaker 3: hits there. His tenth in particular was to Bobashett, and
Speaker 3: I feel like Bobachet could have made the play, but
Speaker 3: that's baseball for you. There was a couple of home
Speaker 3: runs sprinkled in, as you could see from the YouTube
Speaker 3: compilation that podcast p put up.
Speaker 5: There.
Speaker 3: There was even one off a position. Sometimes you need
Speaker 3: a little bit of luck to get a hit in
Speaker 3: twelve straight plan appearances. And I also want to talk
Speaker 3: about the royals recent offensive outburst, but of course it's
Speaker 3: led by Tolbert with twelve straight hits.
Speaker 5: So why the sport's amazing.
Speaker 2: Also, like Jose Miranda, like battling, you know, to find opportunities.
Speaker 5: Now, Tolbert has has a six, had a six.
Speaker 2: Fifty two ops in twenty games in Triple A this year,
Speaker 2: and in thirty two games now at the big league level,
Speaker 2: he's slashing three ninety six, four thirty four, five forty two. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you said, a lot of good fortune in that stretch.
Speaker 2: But that's what makes us sport so fun is there's
Speaker 2: so many different ways that you can reach the record books,
Speaker 2: and anybody can technically you get into the record books there, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's the fun part about it is you never
Speaker 2: know who's gonna go on some crazy stretch with some
Speaker 2: positive fortune, some just of being on a heater and
Speaker 2: some other things in between, and you just never know
Speaker 2: what you're gonna see at the ballfield, And I think
Speaker 2: that makes it so so so much fun. I mean,
Speaker 2: this guy's barely played Tilbert at the big league level
Speaker 2: and and just to have this stretches is really remarkable.
Speaker 5: And speedy guys that put the ball in play, Like
Speaker 5: sometimes you can just have these really cool uh, these cool.
Speaker 2: Heaters and yeah, I mean it helps when you're playing
Speaker 2: the Mets, I will say, And that's definitely part of it.
Speaker 2: But it's just been cool to see another guy in
Speaker 2: the record books with a bunch of names. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a cool record when all the other names are
Speaker 2: like the made up you know, Walt Dropo, whatever, and
Speaker 2: he just.
Speaker 5: Joins this group of guys you've never heard of in
Speaker 5: your life.
Speaker 2: So in his career entering July, Tolbert had twenty one
Speaker 2: hits in twenty eight stolen bas He's had more hits
Speaker 2: than stolen bases. What the way, speed up guy, speed
Speaker 2: guy for you, but ends up getting some AB's here.
Speaker 5: This is like their Jiraw Dyson.
Speaker 2: But now they're letting him swing it a little bit
Speaker 2: and it just goes on this unbelievable stretch that's incredible.
Speaker 3: And what's also been incredible is this Royal's recent out
Speaker 3: offensive outburst because it's not just Tolbert. The Royals have
Speaker 3: scored thirty one runs in their past two games. Yes,
Speaker 3: do the math, that's fifteen and a half runs per game.
Speaker 3: They put up ten earned on Christopher Sanchez, and yes
Speaker 3: they beat up the Mets, but they did it again
Speaker 3: Sanchez too. So this is just the hottest offensive baseball
Speaker 3: over the last two games. But the reason we're bringing
Speaker 3: it up is thirty one runs in two games. I
Speaker 3: don't care who's on the mound. I really don't care.
Speaker 3: Code I Sega hasn't been that bad. I know, he
Speaker 3: hasn't been that great this bad, I don't think. So.
Speaker 3: It's been really cool to see. It's why we love baseballs,
Speaker 3: that anything can happen on any given day, and a
Speaker 3: team like the Royals, who came in as one of
Speaker 3: the worst offenses in Major League Baseball, in a two
Speaker 3: game stretch where one of those he's facing, Christopher Sanchez,
Speaker 3: who's second in Cy Young odds on BETEBGM, puts up
Speaker 3: a ted spot. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 5: It's great.
Speaker 2: And again the fact that it's somebody that entered the
Speaker 2: month with more stolen bases than hits in his career,
Speaker 2: like that's the least likely candidate possible. It's a guy
Speaker 2: that's literally there for his legs doing it with the
Speaker 2: bat for a little bit.
Speaker 3: Do you think that the Royals could actually because we
Speaker 3: see the Tigers they've clawed back Royals, what do you think.
Speaker 5: I just I don't see how.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's nice to see them just like sparking
Speaker 2: it a little bit, but they're sixteen games under.
Speaker 5: I just I think it's gonna be too hard for them.
Speaker 5: I mean, they're young.
Speaker 2: You never know, but I just think also with that
Speaker 2: bullpen too, and the way that opens trending, I mean,
Speaker 2: they could have blown a couple of those.
Speaker 5: Games with the Mets. It's just they kept scoring. I
Speaker 5: just it seems tough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've seen all those Mets stats online about them
Speaker 3: scoring a certain amount of runs at home and never
Speaker 3: losing with that, and you add that on to a
Speaker 3: season like this. It's just been they spent three hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty million dollars on this payroll arm and they're
Speaker 3: setting records in the bad way.
Speaker 2: The broadcast booth is awesome, though you had like you
Speaker 2: had Keith Hernandez having like like an existential crisis while
Speaker 2: they're giving up sixteen runs, talking about the end of
Speaker 2: his bloodline. It was just it's it's the best booth.
Speaker 2: And look, I think when the Mets are in these stretches,
Speaker 2: you gotta switch over to the Mets broadcast booth, not
Speaker 2: to do like the Eric Cartman, like you know, just
Speaker 2: drink the tears thing, like just because they it turns.
Speaker 5: Into a podcast and you never know where it's gonna go.
Speaker 2: And like got it was off the Rails the other
Speaker 2: day and I was it was just really fun to
Speaker 2: listen to.
Speaker 3: They are pretty close to MLB's version of TNT with
Speaker 3: Shaq and Chuck.
Speaker 2: And well, I may they start pushing the limits more
Speaker 2: and more when the games get real ugly, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's really fun to listen to.
Speaker 3: It's funny. They're probably the only booth and Major League
Speaker 3: Baseball that sees their numbers go up when they're losing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeaheah, because I'm tuning.
Speaker 3: In another unbelievable performance Ryan O'Hearn yesterday of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Speaker 3: Three homers is one thing in its own right. Ten RBIs.
Speaker 3: It is more rare to have a game with a
Speaker 3: hitter having ten RBIs than it is to throw a
Speaker 3: perfect game. There have been twenty four perfect games in
Speaker 3: the history of baseball, only seventeen times as a player
Speaker 3: recorded ten RBIs Paul skin even said afterwards is the
Speaker 3: best performance he's seen as a member of the Pirates.
Speaker 3: And this tweet comes to us from our Guy podcast.
Speaker 3: P Ryan o'harton last night became the first player to
Speaker 3: drive in each of his team's first ten runs in
Speaker 3: a game in MLB history. And we just brought up
Speaker 3: on the latest show, Jack and I we were talking
Speaker 3: about what the Pirates are going to do after the
Speaker 3: Connor Griffin injury. Because it's not just this. It sucks
Speaker 3: with KG hitting the shelf. It's not just him. O'Neil
Speaker 3: Cruz is still on the IL. Spencer Horwitz is still
Speaker 3: on the il. How is this Pirate's offense going to
Speaker 3: stay afloat? Well, here's answer number one. Loudly, Ryan o'hurt says,
Speaker 3: get on my back.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The eyes well, and I mean they still have the
Speaker 2: firepower to whether the storm a little bit here.
Speaker 5: I mean, when you.
Speaker 2: Look at what Brandon Lau has been able to do
Speaker 2: for them this year, when you look at what Brian
Speaker 2: Reynolds has been able to do for you this year.
Speaker 5: If Ryan O'Hearn.
Speaker 2: I know that game brought his ops up to an
Speaker 2: eight fifty, but if he's playing like that, it seems
Speaker 2: like the complimentary guys are doing their job for the
Speaker 2: most part. That's where now it swings back over though
Speaker 2: Paul skeens, you got to go be that ace again,
Speaker 2: you know, and and Brax and Ashcraft keep doing what
Speaker 2: you're doing. I think it really is the other three.
Speaker 2: Jared Jones deserves more grace because he's coming back from
Speaker 2: from elbow surgery, so like he's settling back in, Like
Speaker 2: Mitch Keller bro like, you can't be a five e
Speaker 2: r A uh bubba Chandler. You've had ample time. Now
Speaker 2: it's it's time to start seeing seeing it click at
Speaker 2: the big league level for this team.
Speaker 5: And then look, I think that.
Speaker 2: No matter what, they got to go out and get
Speaker 2: bullpen help and just hope the lineup gets healthy and
Speaker 2: hope that the starting pitching does what it what it
Speaker 2: should do, because every guy, like at Leverage is their era,
Speaker 2: starts with a four. The Connor Griffin thing sucks is
Speaker 2: you and I Before the episode that Jack, you and
Speaker 2: Jack talked about it, we're saying Connor Griffin changes this
Speaker 2: team changes the lineup, change the defense, changes everything. But
Speaker 2: they're gonna have to figure it out without him. I
Speaker 2: think just seeing him when he was back and seeing
Speaker 2: what he could do for them is enough to say, Okay,
Speaker 2: well in eight to ten weeks, we'll have him at
Speaker 2: the very end of the season and if we're in it,
Speaker 2: like that's the sprint through the finish line and see
Speaker 2: how it goes. But I think this team has shown
Speaker 2: enough through the adversity that they should be added to right,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying that the Pirate should be mortgaging
Speaker 2: in the future like crazy, but I think this team,
Speaker 2: through the injuries, through the inconsistencies, through Paul Skein's worst
Speaker 2: stretches a big leiguer have been able to weather the storm.
Speaker 2: And then you're getting these pop performances from Ryan O'Hearn,
Speaker 2: Like you're getting O'Hearn doing this. Who knows Brian Reynolds
Speaker 2: could put you on his back, Branda Laule could put
Speaker 2: you on his back the way Nick and Zalez has
Speaker 2: been swinging.
Speaker 5: I think there's enough going on as Maerlean Valdez.
Speaker 2: I agree Biggie in the comments, like has done enough
Speaker 2: when he's been up here.
Speaker 5: It's like that guy could be a spark.
Speaker 2: I think this team is showing you enough life. If
Speaker 2: you're you know, sitting and look at the front office
Speaker 2: here and you're trying to make a decision, say hey,
Speaker 2: we we should add you know, to the bullpen, and
Speaker 2: we should try to push this team a little bit further.
Speaker 3: Jack said, because of these injuries, they might be early buyers,
Speaker 3: Like they might be one of the first teams to
Speaker 3: make a move. Right We've already seen the Cardians make
Speaker 3: a move with Patrick Bailey. We don't expect you to
Speaker 3: be that soon, clearly because we're now past that, but
Speaker 3: definitely before the August third trade deadline. And I think
Speaker 3: I agree with them, Like I think the Pirates are
Speaker 3: gonna start to get after it because of the position
Speaker 3: they're now in with kg O'Neil, Cruz and Horwitz on
Speaker 3: the ail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they should start using Carmen Maginsky
Speaker 2: in like higher leverage.
Speaker 5: It's all your other higher leverage arms.
Speaker 3: Still no take Skins out of the rotation and put in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, getting back in the Schien's a closer Magensky back
Speaker 2: in the rotation that belongs. But now it's going to
Speaker 2: be interesting. I think getting Horwitz back and Cruise back
Speaker 2: is going to.
Speaker 5: Help a lot.
Speaker 2: And then you just you just count the days down
Speaker 2: until you get Connor Griffin and hope that you're in
Speaker 2: a decent position. But I think this team has shown
Speaker 2: enough and performances like this from O'Hearn is enough to say, hey,
Speaker 2: this team needs needs to buy despite the adversity.
Speaker 3: Before we move on, let's hear what Paul Skeins had
Speaker 3: to say about Ryan O'Hearn's historic three homer Gameways.
Speaker 6: Like to see that performance from Riot, I mean, I
Speaker 6: think it was kind of selfish, to be honest.
Speaker 3: Everybody else was getting on and.
Speaker 5: You know, home runs are rally killers.
Speaker 6: H you had a three run home run or a
Speaker 6: Grand Slam, and it's just like what now, you know
Speaker 6: there's nobody on, nobody, nobody can drive him in, So.
Speaker 5: You know, good for him, I guess.
Speaker 3: But uh, no, selfish, totally selfish for Rhino, hard to
Speaker 3: clear the basis for everybody else. No, we went on
Speaker 3: to say again in that interview, was the greatest performance
Speaker 3: he's ever seen. He's obviously being sarcastic and another reason
Speaker 3: why why I wanted to bring that clip up, not
Speaker 3: only because I find it hilarious and I love schemes
Speaker 3: the sense of humor, but there were real people online
Speaker 3: trash scenes and being like, how could you say that?
Speaker 5: I hope, Yeah, we.
Speaker 3: Rub more than one brain cell together. Please please please,
Speaker 3: I mean that all missed comments section I've seen in
Speaker 3: a long time. And when we're talking about the internet here, yeah.
Speaker 5: I know, it's even low for the Internet.
Speaker 2: The fun thing with with Skeens is like seeing his
Speaker 2: because people always talk about, oh, like there's not much
Speaker 2: personality there, is he going to not be that marketable star.
Speaker 2: Seeing his is like comedic side just kind of blossom
Speaker 2: as he's gotten more comfortable in the big leagues and
Speaker 2: more comfortable with the media. Has been really cool because
Speaker 2: we always talked about it just feels like MLB gets
Speaker 2: a star and they're just not marketable at all. I
Speaker 2: think people sleep on the personality that Skeens brings to
Speaker 2: the table, and like seeing some of the commercials and
Speaker 2: stuff that he's doing. It's very deadpan humor, but it's
Speaker 2: it is great and again I think he's he's a
Speaker 2: really good leader and kind of potential face for the
Speaker 2: league to be able to have fun like that.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you. So we still got to
Speaker 3: talk about Zach Wheeler and how credible he is in
Speaker 3: his performance yesterday, as well as our first look at
Speaker 3: Luis Lara and then Mock Draft three point zero with
Speaker 3: Tyler Jennings. But before that podcast, p can we hear
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Speaker 3: Polished off a few of those honey roasted peanuts this morning.
Speaker 3: They're just so damn good. I gotta be careful, dude,
Speaker 3: because they I could just fly through those bags. All right,
Speaker 3: let's look at Zach Wheeler Zahel yesterday, seven innings, fourteen
Speaker 3: punch outs, one run aloud, four hits, no walks, sees
Speaker 3: any rays down to two to two eight. And remember
Speaker 3: it's hot in the middle of summer at Great American Ballpark,
Speaker 3: where the ball is flying. Absolutely not. Wheeler was masterful.
Speaker 3: You're seeing these hot this highlight montage and another reason
Speaker 3: why I love Wheeler so much. It's not just the
Speaker 3: postseason pedigree. It's not the electric stuff. It's the command
Speaker 3: of the strike zone. Because when you watch J two
Speaker 3: rul Muto's glove, when he sets up, he doesn't move
Speaker 3: an inch. Zach Wheeler throws electric stuff wherever he wants,
Speaker 3: whenever he wants, with any pitch that he wants to
Speaker 3: go to. And he was pissed. He was pissed after Yeah,
Speaker 3: at least it was about the All Stars.
Speaker 5: I think heissed before he pitched, pissed before.
Speaker 3: We hear from Zach Wheeler because I want to. I
Speaker 3: want to hear from his mouth what he thinks about
Speaker 3: getting stumbed from the All Star Game, or what do
Speaker 3: you think about this performance?
Speaker 2: I think you saw how angry and kind of like
Speaker 2: how much he wanted to prove in this outing that
Speaker 2: he's an All Star and that he should be in
Speaker 2: that game.
Speaker 5: And I think that was the big part is and I.
Speaker 2: Think this is this was like a microcosm of why
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler is so good in the playoffs. Adrenaline does
Speaker 2: not affect his command where he has the adrenaline just
Speaker 2: injected into him from the postseason or in this case,
Speaker 2: being angry and.
Speaker 5: Prepared to prove to everybody that he deserved to be.
Speaker 2: An All Star, like he stepped on that mound, he
Speaker 2: told the rubber, more angry than usual, more fired up
Speaker 2: than usual, and he can just harness that and use
Speaker 2: it for good, where some guys will start to get
Speaker 2: a radic and starts to spray a little bit and
Speaker 2: lose the command. And I think it's the same reason
Speaker 2: why he is so good in the playoffs is that
Speaker 2: guy uses adrenaline is still able to lock that in
Speaker 2: and focus and just execute and across his whole arsenal.
Speaker 2: He was executing everything from the four seamer, this weeper,
Speaker 2: the splitter, the sinker, even sprinkling in the cutter and curveball.
Speaker 2: The feel that he has to pitch when he's angry
Speaker 2: or fired up is just incredible.
Speaker 3: He is one of six pitchers with an ERA below
Speaker 3: two four in over at least eighty innings, and he
Speaker 3: said two two eight and only Jacob Izarowski is a
Speaker 3: lower win Remember when he had a thoracic outlet syndrome
Speaker 3: and we weren't sure what he was going to look
Speaker 3: like when he came back, and now he's looking arguably
Speaker 3: better than ever. I really do think because I remember
Speaker 3: when we did our National League East predictions at the
Speaker 3: beginning of the season, and I picked the Phillies to
Speaker 3: win the division, and it was a belief that Zach
Speaker 3: Wheeler was going to return to relative for even I
Speaker 3: didn't think so, and I think the debate was and
Speaker 3: I think you and Jack both agree with this. If
Speaker 3: Wheeler did return to peak Wheeler, yes, I could see
Speaker 3: the Phillies winning. It's just improbable because he is such
Speaker 3: an X factor for this Phillies. Right, you go, Sanchez Wheeler, Lizardo,
Speaker 3: dear God, you go Sanchez Lozardo Nola not as sexy,
Speaker 3: a lot worse, And that could be the difference between
Speaker 3: the Phillies winning the division and not. And not only
Speaker 3: were we seeing Zach Wheeler return to eighty percent, like
Speaker 3: I kind of thought he would. We're seeing him return
Speaker 3: to peak Wheeler. I mean, we're just talking about Verlander
Speaker 3: putting up that one one seven five era when he
Speaker 3: was thirty nine years old. Wheeler is in quite thirty nine.
Speaker 3: But it just speaks to the greatness of Zach Wheeler
Speaker 3: that he just continues to do it at the highest level.
Speaker 3: And I totally understand why he's upset that he's not
Speaker 3: an All Star. I think the innings are probably getting
Speaker 3: in the way. Right he did start the year hurt,
Speaker 3: and the National League starting pitching staff is freaking loaded.
Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't even mention a guy like Kyle
Speaker 3: Harrison yesterday who's having an unbelievable season. And then I
Speaker 3: responded in our discord and I said, well, who are
Speaker 3: you taking off? Because one thing to be a snub
Speaker 3: and that's what annoys me. And I said this yesterday
Speaker 3: about All Star snub discourse. I see people just listing
Speaker 3: names that are awesome and saying they should be Ulstars. Well,
Speaker 3: then do the extra step and take somebody off. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so even still are them. I'm looking at the All
Speaker 3: Star pitchers in the National League and I say, okay,
Speaker 3: we could take off Skeens for them. That's where we're at,
Speaker 3: right because outside of Logan Web who I already took
Speaker 3: off yesterday for Brax and Ashcraft, who's been a top
Speaker 3: ten pitcher in baseball period by f war, then next
Speaker 3: you'd take off Skeens. So I guess take off Skeens
Speaker 3: for Wheeler if you feel like that.
Speaker 2: And that's the hard part because I don't know that
Speaker 2: Wheelwer's numbers were still better. But if you take Skeens's
Speaker 2: numbers through eighty eight, Inx pitched, which is right where
Speaker 2: Wheeler's at, Skeen's had a two eight sixty, alright, So
Speaker 2: it starts to close the gap a lot more. And
Speaker 2: that's the tough part, is like I think Wheeler deserves
Speaker 2: to be in there, but it is when we're working
Speaker 2: with a half of a season, twenty innings matters a lot,
Speaker 2: and that's the difficult part. And in some instances, like
Speaker 2: it's it's more than twenty innings, it's like thirty saniel
Speaker 2: contrasts to one hundred and twenty three innings this year,
Speaker 2: so like it's it's forty innings almost between between them two.
Speaker 2: But you know you've got thirty pitchers I think, or
Speaker 2: more than that excuse, we have thirty seven pitchers, not
Speaker 2: all of them All Stars obviously, but thirty seven pitchers
Speaker 2: that have thrown one hundred innings this year already.
Speaker 5: So that's the push and pull with it.
Speaker 2: But I think Wheeler has been so dominant, and I think
Speaker 2: the only reason that wheel are and one of the
Speaker 2: main reasons why Wheelers being so vocal about this is
Speaker 2: that it's in Philly, right and and he deserves to
Speaker 2: be recognized there. He's only going to maybe pitch what
Speaker 2: one more year after this. He's overcome so much he
Speaker 2: deserves to be there. And I think the most frustrating
Speaker 2: part for him is that, you know, usually the way
Speaker 2: that they'll rectify the free agent like Injustice or excuse me,
Speaker 2: the All Star Injustice, is that guys go down and
Speaker 2: then you put in, you know, you late addition, the
Speaker 2: guy that you know should have been in there. But
Speaker 2: because it won't line up with Wheeler being available to pitch,
Speaker 2: the league doesn't view him as a guy that is
Speaker 2: eligible to be added into the All Star Game, even
Speaker 2: just his recognition, and that seems to be where his
Speaker 2: frustration lies.
Speaker 3: Right like Hazu's Zarto. I think that's a great point.
Speaker 3: Lizardo was just added, and who's had a better season?
Speaker 3: Hasus Zardo or Zach Wheeler? I mean, but Lizardo lines
Speaker 3: up and he's had a good year in his own right.
Speaker 3: So it is it really does suck because while I
Speaker 3: think I can make an argument that based on just
Speaker 3: these season numbers, maybe he would be slightly on the
Speaker 3: outside looking in, I could also understand his frustration with
Speaker 3: that point about it being in Philly, where he's at
Speaker 3: in his career and how damn good he's been. And
Speaker 3: again this start capitalized it and we heard from Zach
Speaker 3: Wheeler after the game podcast p Let's hear what Wheeler
Speaker 3: has to say about getting Snubb from the All Star Game.
Speaker 7: Now, I feel like that's kind of a reminder, you know,
Speaker 7: for whoever needs to be reminded. So you know, it's it,
Speaker 7: uh pisses me off, and you know it's it's kind
Speaker 7: of bs. So you know, if maybe if I wasn't
Speaker 7: necessarily right in there, I wouldn't be saying this. But
Speaker 7: I feel like I've earned it. And just because I
Speaker 7: pitch on a certain day doesn't I mean that I
Speaker 7: get you know, I don't even know the right word.
Speaker 7: But just because I pitch on a certain day, you know,
Speaker 7: I can't pitch an All Star Game or even be there.
Speaker 2: Nothing he said there I disagree with well, and he
Speaker 2: was saying to it kind of lines up with this bullpen.
Speaker 2: So there's like a league rule that if you throw
Speaker 2: within a certain amount of days, like you throw in
Speaker 2: a game within a certain amount of days of the
Speaker 2: All Star Game, that even if you said I'm good
Speaker 2: to go, they won't let you throw.
Speaker 5: And he's like, it lines up with my bullpen.
Speaker 2: I can throw in any I'm fine throwing an inning
Speaker 2: and just just going and having fun out there, and
Speaker 2: the league won't even allow that. So that's where it's
Speaker 2: really interesting. There's definitely more, maybe there's more nuance to
Speaker 2: it that I'm not aware of, but I think Wheelers
Speaker 2: probably well informed on the topic and talk to his
Speaker 2: agent whatever. And it's Quily still frustrated for good reason.
Speaker 2: And of pictures with at least eighty innings thrown this year,
Speaker 2: he's six in the r right. He trails only Chris
Speaker 2: saile At, Hardo Rodriguez, Cam Switzler, Shohatani and Jacob Mesrowski.
Speaker 2: So I get it, you know, and and I think
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a tough situation for him get out.
Speaker 2: I think if it wasn't in Philly, I think you'd
Speaker 2: have some frustration, but I think not to this degree.
Speaker 5: And and he has every right to feel that way.
Speaker 2: And what I don't get is, like when when we
Speaker 2: had a snub or when someone had to be replaced,
Speaker 2: why not we have this Legends nomination right that we
Speaker 2: always do, which I get it, like I don't hate it,
Speaker 2: But if you can do like the Legends nomination for
Speaker 2: Justin Verlander, why can't you when somebody gets hurt just say.
Speaker 5: Hey, Wheelers would have been the replacement. But since he
Speaker 5: can't throw that day, he is not going to know.
Speaker 2: He'll be like an honorary replacement. And then we're gonna
Speaker 2: go to Lizardo, and Lizardo is going to actually take
Speaker 2: the role. So yes, you have two more All Stars
Speaker 2: being named. Who cares you're throwing All Stars to honorary legends?
Speaker 2: Like if it's someone that specifically fits the criteria, and
Speaker 2: maybe it's a slippery slope because then you're like you
Speaker 2: could start doing that with a bunch of people.
Speaker 5: But it's really only a pitcher issue anyways.
Speaker 2: So I think if there was a clearcut guy that
Speaker 2: was the obvious replacement, you should give him like the
Speaker 2: honorary All Star like non and then have another replacement
Speaker 2: behind him, Because I just don't see why we care
Speaker 2: about you know, how many All Stars we have when
Speaker 2: we're doing this, you know, Legends aspect as well.
Speaker 3: I wonder if them naming Bryce Harper another Philly as
Speaker 3: the Legends pick through wrench in there where it's like,
Speaker 3: we already gave it to Harper, Are we going to
Speaker 3: give another one of these picks to a different Philly?
Speaker 3: And I get that in theory, But at the same time,
Speaker 3: Bryce Harper deserves to be an All Star this year
Speaker 3: Justin Verlander was a Legends pick, clearly doesn't. Harper's got
Speaker 3: a nine hundred ops. He's been awesome. I think he's
Speaker 3: been better than Matt Olson this year. Yeah, right, or
Speaker 3: at least on par So, I don't think they have
Speaker 3: to look at it as, oh, we gave Harper the nod.
Speaker 3: You gave Harper the nod because he deserved it. You
Speaker 3: could still give the Legends pick to Zack Wheeler, who
Speaker 3: also deserves it. Yeah, right, because I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I talk about All Star discourse and I what annoys
Speaker 3: me when you don't pull off his number whatever. But
Speaker 3: I can also understand when a guy just simply deserves it,
Speaker 3: and Zach Wheeler simply deserves it. And I do think
Speaker 3: that he has an argument over Paul Skeens, who will
Speaker 3: be at the ULCER game, and we can't understand the
Speaker 3: innings thing. And I still would give it to Skeens,
Speaker 3: But can I hear the argument? Yes, which means they
Speaker 3: got to find a way to get him in.
Speaker 2: Well, what I would saying they pick and choose when
Speaker 2: I kind of rewrite the rules, and like, this is
Speaker 2: a great time to rewrite the rules.
Speaker 5: Get Wheeler in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't pretend like you're following your own rules. You
Speaker 3: make a new one every year, So now we got
Speaker 3: to follow the game. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't well informed when they first did the
Speaker 2: Legends thing.
Speaker 5: I was like, that's a thing I didn't I didn't
Speaker 5: even know that was a thing. They said, oh, legends
Speaker 5: pick like here, Miguel.
Speaker 2: Cabrera or whoever it was. I was like, okay, they
Speaker 2: started with Jeter. Like there's just times where I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I didn't whatever the first
Speaker 2: time was, I had no idea it existed.
Speaker 3: I swear they put in new rules for the All
Speaker 3: Star Game or the Home Run Derby or just Major
Speaker 3: League Baseball in general, in our terms and conditions when
Speaker 3: we sign up for MLBtv, like and then they just
Speaker 3: pull him up and it's like, you actually want to
Speaker 3: agree to this. You agree to this, you support it,
Speaker 3: you support it? All right. So we got one more
Speaker 3: topic before we get to mock Draft three point zero,
Speaker 3: and we're saving the fastest for last. Luis Laura I
Speaker 3: posted on a X and our guy Buster only retweeted me.
Speaker 3: Peter Vision had the Luis Laura rounding the bases on
Speaker 3: a Bryce terrangue either single or double to center as
Speaker 3: the fastest sprint speed of the season. Actually asked podcast
Speaker 3: Pete right after he hit it, and I said, can
Speaker 3: we track the sprint speed? And he's like, it's not
Speaker 3: available yet, and I was like, well, my eyes said
Speaker 3: he was the fastest. Obviously, I have no real idea,
Speaker 3: but I do trust Peter Vision, which.
Speaker 2: Is funny because I think he's like by like feet
Speaker 2: per second. It's just like just above average.
Speaker 5: He evolved so well.
Speaker 3: The way his arms and legs were moving, it looked
Speaker 3: robotic in a good way though, like a mooth robot
Speaker 3: built for speed.
Speaker 5: I love this guy well.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had him on the Top one hundred
Speaker 2: list in like twenty twenty three when he was eighteen
Speaker 2: years old, and you know, I'd rarely do that with
Speaker 2: guys that have you not had a ton of a
Speaker 2: body of work there, But this is a player. Since
Speaker 2: the first time I saw him, the instincts in the
Speaker 2: feel for the game is is just ridiculous. And before
Speaker 2: his debut ranked forty second on our Top one hundred list.
Speaker 5: There was a span in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Four where he fell off of it, but it was
Speaker 2: hard to properly assess him because he was pushed so aggressively.
Speaker 2: And I think the Brewers they do that with the
Speaker 2: guys that they love, and it's not comparing him to
Speaker 2: Chorio or Midday, but if they see that this is
Speaker 2: going to be a good Major League baseball player, they
Speaker 2: will push you quickly.
Speaker 5: And that's exactly what they did with Laura.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: He gets a high A when he was eighteen years
Speaker 5: old still and.
Speaker 2: By the time he was in is I think still
Speaker 2: nineteen years old, he was getting a taste of Double A.
Speaker 5: So it's like, how do you properly assess a player
Speaker 5: like that?
Speaker 2: And at twenty one years old, here he is starting
Speaker 2: the season at Triple A, and here he is having
Speaker 2: a power breakout where after never having hit more than
Speaker 2: four homers in a season, you go to Nashville.
Speaker 5: Nashal is one of the hardest places to hit.
Speaker 2: I've talked about this on the call up and maybe
Speaker 2: a little bit on here, and he's doubled already, more
Speaker 2: than doubled his career high in homers. He's nine through
Speaker 2: seventy eight games. This is a really good contact and
Speaker 2: like speed in elite glove type of guy. So if
Speaker 2: he's able to hit you ten to fifteen homers, holy crap.
Speaker 2: And I think just seeing that power uptick from him,
Speaker 2: even if it's eight to ten, just the fact that
Speaker 2: he's gonna be able to split the gap so much
Speaker 2: because he's walking more than he strikes out he's a
Speaker 2: switch hitter, was enough for the Brewers to be like,
Speaker 2: let's extend this guy.
Speaker 5: And that's what they did before he even debuted.
Speaker 2: And what I'm really excited about is you look at
Speaker 2: what he brings to the Brewers roster here, because even
Speaker 2: if he's not mashing right away, he's solid from both
Speaker 2: sides of the plate. Like I said, he's added the thumb.
Speaker 2: He's a plus centerfielder. People that I've talked to around
Speaker 2: the Brewers organizations say gold Glover. They think he can
Speaker 2: win multiple gold Gloves. You have Garrett Mitchell of course
Speaker 2: in centerfield, but also a guy that you you want
Speaker 2: to make sure you can keep healthy and maybe again
Speaker 2: that you don't want to see left He see lefties
Speaker 2: as much.
Speaker 5: So maybe Laura can can can take some of those matchups.
Speaker 5: South Freelick has really struggled.
Speaker 2: He could, He could give you plenty of value in
Speaker 2: the corner out there's another lefty bat.
Speaker 3: That was gonna be my next question. Do you think
Speaker 3: they just start to phase south Freelick out of the
Speaker 3: lineup here, because I mean his six P twenty six
Speaker 3: ops is certainly not doing it for him. And it's
Speaker 3: not like he's this all world defender either good defender,
Speaker 3: but if Luis Lara can provide better defense Freelick with
Speaker 3: a better bat, what are we talking about here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing is like I think the
Speaker 2: floor honestly for Laura with his swing decisions being where
Speaker 2: they're at, with the field to hit and everything.
Speaker 5: As a switch hitter, it's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be something like sal So you'd pair that with
Speaker 2: better defense and you're getting more value. So short answers, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I don't know what their long term plan is
Speaker 2: with Sally's still twenty six. Like he's given us a
Speaker 2: lot of really good stretches where you can see this
Speaker 2: guy s it is a good major League baseball player.
Speaker 2: But this is a Brewers team that can win the
Speaker 2: World Series. So I think this gives them flexibility. You
Speaker 2: talk about late game adjustments too. If you bring in
Speaker 2: the righty for Garrett Mitchell Freelick's not a good center fielder,
Speaker 2: now you have somebody in Laura, like if you pinch it,
Speaker 2: you love this spot. Vaughn was on the bench and
Speaker 2: you pinch it. You know, you pinch it for Mitchell
Speaker 2: and you just love to deploy Von in that spot
Speaker 2: or Sanchez or whatever. Now you have somebody else that
Speaker 2: can go slide over in a center field and play
Speaker 2: it at a high level. And I think that is
Speaker 2: huge for them too. So the flexibility that this gives
Speaker 2: Pat Murphy for the way that they can play platoons,
Speaker 2: and what Laura brings to the table I think is huge,
Speaker 2: and I think this allows the brus to hedge their weaknesses,
Speaker 2: leverage their strengths, and deploy their righty you know, pinchhit
Speaker 2: bats like Sanchez has been swinging it great, Vonn has
Speaker 2: been swinging it great, and just continue to be able
Speaker 2: to deploy them in different spots in that lineup, you know,
Speaker 2: when the lefty reliever comes in if it's a game
Speaker 2: that they're not starting.
Speaker 3: Good problem to have if you're Milwaukee and podcast people.
Speaker 3: Without further ado, let's talk to Tyler. The MLB Draft
Speaker 3: is on Saturday, July eleventh. It is Wednesday, July eighth,
Speaker 3: which means the most updated mock draft is live on
Speaker 3: just baseball dot com. Mock Draft three point zero written
Speaker 3: by Tyler Jennings and other you know, our great team
Speaker 3: over at just baseball dot com covering the draft. Tyler,
Speaker 3: thanks so much for joining us. You know, I love
Speaker 3: this part. We're getting real close to the White Sox
Speaker 3: picking number one overall and then the rest of the draft.
Speaker 3: I guess I want to start with what is the
Speaker 3: biggest difference between Mock Draft two point zero, which came
Speaker 3: out in the beginning of June to now on July eighth.
Speaker 8: I would say the biggest thing is kind of hammering
Speaker 8: out like more specific connections than what we had on
Speaker 8: Mock two point zero, specifically like looking at what the
Speaker 8: Orioles might do with like j Booth if he's there
Speaker 8: at number seven, and kind of figuring out like some
Speaker 8: of these top ten teams specifically in moving from there,
Speaker 8: and then some of these other teams were just like,
Speaker 8: maybe there's a better fit for like, you know, the
Speaker 8: Brewers at twenty five. We had Cole pro Sec there
Speaker 8: this this mock and he kind of just fits what
Speaker 8: they look for perfectly.
Speaker 1: And plus they've.
Speaker 8: Also picked out of the school he comes from comes
Speaker 8: from Magnolia Heights. Cooper Pratt came from there, So it's
Speaker 8: kind of trying to put some connections together and go
Speaker 8: from there.
Speaker 2: The other thing that I always think seems to happen
Speaker 2: as the draft gets closer it's inevitable because of the
Speaker 2: signing bonus and the go siating aspect of it, is
Speaker 2: the slam dunk first overall pick never turns out to
Speaker 2: be the slam dunk the closer the draft gets, and
Speaker 2: there's other variables, and that started to happen a little
Speaker 2: while ago, but I just feel like a closer we've
Speaker 2: gotten now, all of a sudden, Rock Schulawski now feels
Speaker 2: like the less likely pick, which is silly, but it
Speaker 2: just seems like when you look at all the conversation,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now it's like you're hearing more
Speaker 2: about Grady Emerson a couple of different outlet's put Grady
Speaker 2: Emerson is the number one player in the class. You hear,
Speaker 2: of course, like the murmurs of von Lackey and the
Speaker 2: fact that he could potentially go number one. It's got
Speaker 2: to be one of the more exhausting parts of this cycle,
Speaker 2: is or just every time of this year when we
Speaker 2: go through the cycle, is just the smoke and mirrors
Speaker 2: that usually comes with the number one pick when you
Speaker 2: don't have the slam dunk of all slam dunks. How
Speaker 2: much do you feel like all of this is smoking
Speaker 2: mirrors as the draft gets closer, and how much do
Speaker 2: you think this is actually a pretty wild and down
Speaker 2: to the wire decision for you know, this White Sox
Speaker 2: team to ultimately make because look, the Nationals did it
Speaker 2: last year, Eli will no one was expecting that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they'll say they made that decision like right after
Speaker 8: the clock was started too for the draft. So from
Speaker 8: what I've been told, the White Sox probably will not
Speaker 8: know who they're picking until like twelve thirty ish on
Speaker 8: on Saturday, which I would say that's like a half
Speaker 8: hour hour before the draft. I think it starts at
Speaker 8: one thirties, so I wouldn't be shocked if it goes
Speaker 8: past that. And you know, the biggest thing is is
Speaker 8: trying to pick out what is smoking mirrors, you know,
Speaker 8: Like you had mentioned, it's the exhausting part of this
Speaker 8: is trying to figure out like which rumor makes the
Speaker 8: most sense and which one's logical. Like we've mentioned this
Speaker 8: on the draft previous show between me and Connor Monday Night.
Speaker 8: But like von Lackey signing, you know, or at least
Speaker 8: agreeing to an eight point five million dollar bonus, you know,
Speaker 8: before the combine or even a little bit after, I
Speaker 8: don't feel like that's a thing anymore. I feel like
Speaker 8: now it's kind of down to either Rock or Grady
Speaker 8: at this point, and depending on who you prefer, I
Speaker 8: think you're gonna get different answers, but it really just
Speaker 8: comes down to who in the room prefers who, Like,
Speaker 8: do you prefer the guy with a potentially seventy glove
Speaker 8: of a high floor and has a track record in
Speaker 8: I understand it's a big ten, but like in college baseball,
Speaker 8: like that track record is really good, Or do you
Speaker 8: prefer the guy with the upside from the left side
Speaker 8: of the plate? Who you know they could you surp
Speaker 8: Rock in the future. But I made the comparison the
Speaker 8: other day where I think Rock has a greade better glove,
Speaker 8: and I would say the Raw powers at least a
Speaker 8: grade better as well. So like it's an interesting dynamic
Speaker 8: to kind of think about, and I understand, Like you know,
Speaker 8: I think there's only been two college short stuffs taking
Speaker 8: number one overall in the past like fifty years.
Speaker 1: Or something like that. The last one was Dansby.
Speaker 8: Rock just feels like the kind of guy to really
Speaker 8: break that streak a little bit. And I think at
Speaker 8: the same time, some of the rumors have been coming
Speaker 8: out now just been leverage play for the White Sox
Speaker 8: to get Rock to take less. So it really is
Speaker 8: just going to be a wild sort of scenario that's
Speaker 8: going to come right down to the wire. I feel
Speaker 8: like on Saturday, the MLB.
Speaker 3: Draft is a little bit different than other sports drafts
Speaker 3: because of slot value. Right, teams might go underslot in
Speaker 3: order to save money to draft another guy down the
Speaker 3: line where potentially they could splurge. I'm curious if the
Speaker 3: impending lockout in twenty twenty seven is affecting those decisions,
Speaker 3: maybe even more than usual, because we've seen a lot
Speaker 3: of teams do it in the past. Right teams have
Speaker 3: even gone way under slot at the number one overall pick.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: I remember the Pirates with Henry Davis, and there have
Speaker 3: been numerous other examples of that. Do you think that
Speaker 3: this draft in particular is going to be more affected
Speaker 3: by the lockout or do you think it's just business
Speaker 3: as usual because we don't really know what's going to
Speaker 3: happen with the lockout anyway, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Feel like it's going to be more business as usual.
Speaker 8: Because the more I thought about it, I kind of
Speaker 8: wonder like, obviously, when you look at it, player development
Speaker 8: next year is going to be, you know, depending on
Speaker 8: what happens, is going to be a either non existent
Speaker 8: or it will be like the COVID year where we
Speaker 8: kind of miss out on something. So it's it's interesting
Speaker 8: just talking around with some people as well. They don't
Speaker 8: feel like it's gonna affect much. I know some of
Speaker 8: the players have had their thoughts about, like, you know,
Speaker 8: looking in the future, where how do how does high
Speaker 8: school you know, the demographic kind of fit into the
Speaker 8: draft in the future, and how much does affect you know,
Speaker 8: guys behind them. I think that's gonna be a conversation
Speaker 8: half later on, but as of right now, I just
Speaker 8: I'm not sure how much that's going to affect the
Speaker 8: draft this year. But I know there'll be teams in
Speaker 8: the top five, top ten that are going to be
Speaker 8: trying to underslot it their their first pick and then
Speaker 8: if they have a compick or you know, some of
Speaker 8: those PPI picks at the end of the first round,
Speaker 8: I can definitely see somebody trying to get fancy and
Speaker 8: try and buy someone down.
Speaker 2: That's where I think it gets interesting in this draft too,
Speaker 2: And I'm excited to talk, you know, further with it
Speaker 2: about like about it all with you because like for
Speaker 2: me and I think there's a lot of really talented
Speaker 2: players and we're gonna get into some of them specifics,
Speaker 2: because like Kay Townsend in this latest mock, going all
Speaker 2: the way up to nine is pretty exciting, but that
Speaker 2: that would presumably be like an UNDERSWAT deal right with
Speaker 2: the Braves right handed from Mississippi. But my thing is,
Speaker 2: at least for the way that I look at it,
Speaker 2: it feels like and maybe you could draw the line
Speaker 2: maybe one or two players before or after based on
Speaker 2: who you like, But this draft in particular, it just
Speaker 2: seems like there's a bit of a drop off after
Speaker 2: the sixth or seventh pick, depending on how you look at.
Speaker 5: It, And at least for me, it feels that way.
Speaker 2: If that's the case, then a lot of teams may
Speaker 2: want to try to make an UNDERSWAT deal happen from there,
Speaker 2: because it's like, hey, there's not that much of a
Speaker 2: difference between the fifteenth guy on our board and the
Speaker 2: ninth guy on our board, per se, do you see
Speaker 2: it that way? Like do you see it as like
Speaker 2: top heavy and there's a there's a bit middle class
Speaker 2: as it pertains to the first round, And do you
Speaker 2: think that that affects team's ability to pull off an
Speaker 2: UNDERSWAT deal, Because like the most common UNDERSWAT team is
Speaker 2: the athletics at eight, and I don't know if they're
Speaker 2: like you can always pull off a deal for a
Speaker 2: guy that people really weren't expecting to be in that range,
Speaker 2: but it feels like it's a little bit more difficult
Speaker 2: to have the leverage as a team if there's not
Speaker 2: kind of that slam dunk top ten or twelve type
Speaker 2: of players that you're expecting.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think, as like a whole, like we've done
Speaker 8: a maybe the service to this class of like trying
Speaker 8: to hype it up to be a lot more than
Speaker 8: what it actually is, and that's not a shot to
Speaker 8: any of the players in this class. But I think
Speaker 8: you're correct in terms of there's a there's top heaviness here,
Speaker 8: and there's a clear you know, Tier A or first tier,
Speaker 8: and then it kind of just drops off a little
Speaker 8: bit after that. And you know, talking to scouts, they
Speaker 8: don't believe there's a you know, depending on who you asked,
Speaker 8: there's not always going to be a full first round
Speaker 8: of write ups for them, So like there'll be like
Speaker 8: twenty guys they put first round grades on, and then
Speaker 8: after that it's just like guys who you know will
Speaker 8: go in the first round. But we think they're second
Speaker 8: rounders and so on and so forth. So I think
Speaker 8: that's how this draft has kind of turned out to be,
Speaker 8: and I think that's gonna definitely play a role on
Speaker 8: how teams operate on this So, like you can see,
Speaker 8: I'm gonna throw out example, like the Royals at six,
Speaker 8: they had their secondary pick at thirty. You know, we
Speaker 8: had Drew Burris and trying to remember who else we had,
Speaker 8: we had Zion Rows at thirty, which looking back on
Speaker 8: it probably not be the way to operate necessarily. I
Speaker 8: know they'll probably stick with a bat at six and
Speaker 8: then try and and buy someone down at thirty. But
Speaker 8: Zion Rose, i know, does have connections to the Royals
Speaker 8: at that pick, depending on if he gets there. No
Speaker 8: idea if it will happen, but he has a lot
Speaker 8: of suitors in the back end of the first round
Speaker 8: right now. But if they they happen to get like EJ.
Speaker 8: Boof at six or even Jacob Lombard at six, you
Speaker 8: know what happens? Then do they pay overslot six and
Speaker 8: then try and buy you know, somebody at thirty to
Speaker 8: try and get an underslot dealble to help kind of
Speaker 8: maximize their bonus pool. There, so it's really interesting to
Speaker 8: see what happens there. I think the Giants are another
Speaker 8: team that like kind of fit that mold, where like
Speaker 8: they pick a floor, they pick it twenty nine. Do
Speaker 8: they want a top three in this class? I absolutely
Speaker 8: think they do. Doesn't happen genuinely, no idea, so a lot.
Speaker 8: I would say, after the Giants, it gets a little
Speaker 8: you know, kerfuffled a little bit. It's probably a good
Speaker 8: way to describe it.
Speaker 2: There's there's a clear tier one A, right, which is
Speaker 2: of course going to be the Chilawski's, the Emerson's and
Speaker 2: the Lackies of the world. And correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's kind of the one A from
Speaker 2: from there one B. How far down are you willing
Speaker 2: to go? Like, because I feel like with the one
Speaker 2: B still kind of putting them as.
Speaker 5: Part of that that tier one. Of course you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have Flora in there. I'm curious where you're at
Speaker 2: at Lombard. It seems like he's a little bit more polarizing,
Speaker 2: but of course they're gonna have Flora Buris. And then
Speaker 2: that's where it gets interesting into like an EJ how
Speaker 2: far do you extend this beyond like to encapsulate Tier one.
Speaker 2: How many players do you think would fit that, like
Speaker 2: definitive tier one, even if it's a bee, because Tier
Speaker 2: one A is obviously going to be that queer cut
Speaker 2: top three guys.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say this, the question marks start coming
Speaker 8: in after you know the seventh player on our board.
Speaker 8: So like going through it, you mentioned one A Rock, Lackey,
Speaker 8: and Emerson, one Bee, Flora, Buris Booth.
Speaker 1: And Lombard.
Speaker 8: I feel like it's probably the best way to describe
Speaker 8: it because you start kind of getting into some question
Speaker 8: marks at eight. So like we have chrisy Copian at eight,
Speaker 8: you know, fantastic bat the ball skills, but injured all year,
Speaker 8: had a back issue. Supposedly according to when a Tech
Speaker 8: SAgs guy, you played through a broken leg this year,
Speaker 8: which is interesting to say the least. So there's some
Speaker 8: question marks about healthcare. Celia Straschneider obviously insane athleticism, insane power,
Speaker 8: but the hit tool really just leaves a lot more
Speaker 8: to be desired. Tyler Bell has a shorter injury right
Speaker 8: health for it, I would say, is probably the next
Speaker 8: guy to put into like the one B tier if
Speaker 8: we want to expand it to five just as a
Speaker 8: cashier with really good defense and power, but obviously the
Speaker 8: hit tool kind of a little if he depending on
Speaker 8: who you ask, but he's a catcher, he's not expected
Speaker 8: to have a fantastic hit tool, you know, So you know,
Speaker 8: I would definitely say that the seven to eight guys
Speaker 8: throwing in hell for for one bee if we want to.
Speaker 1: That's kind of where like the Tier one ends.
Speaker 3: For me, going to the end of the first round,
Speaker 3: from picks thirty through twenty one. A name that really
Speaker 3: jumped out at me because I think before the college
Speaker 3: baseball season started, Cam Flukey was potentially starting pitcher number one,
Speaker 3: even ahead of a guy like Jackson Flora. He dealt
Speaker 3: with injuries, it wasn't his best season, but I still
Speaker 3: think that he has a ton of potential. And in
Speaker 3: mock Draft two point zero he was going number twelve overall.
Speaker 3: In mock Draft three point zero, he's all the way
Speaker 3: down to twenty nine and the Giants do have the
Speaker 3: fourth pick and the twenty ninth is Jacob Lombard being
Speaker 3: drafted at number four as a cost saving measure so
Speaker 3: they can go get Cam Fluky. Is it just that's
Speaker 3: where Cam Flukey is going to land because he's sliding,
Speaker 3: Like break that down.
Speaker 1: For me, it's a mix of both.
Speaker 8: I feel like and with Lombard, I would say he's
Speaker 8: closer to slot value at four than you know, being
Speaker 8: an underslot guy. If he signs for under is probably
Speaker 8: not gonna be a ton of savings. So and our process,
Speaker 8: you know, going through it was like, hey, Flukey's still
Speaker 8: available here, and the main reason is because you know,
Speaker 8: obviously you mentioned the stretch fracture in the rib. You know,
Speaker 8: saw him week one, he looked very solid and then
Speaker 8: was out for eleven weeks because of the injury, and
Speaker 8: wasn't I don't want to say he wasn't crisp at
Speaker 8: the end of the season, but it took him some
Speaker 8: time to get back into form a little bit. And
Speaker 8: you know, there's been some talk about like, you know,
Speaker 8: is there anything plus in the profile thes like pitch wise,
Speaker 8: probably not. I would say fastball is probably closest, maybe
Speaker 8: the curveball, but it's really polished and really really proven.
Speaker 8: There's a lot of track record there. You know, he
Speaker 8: was going to be the first guy since I believe
Speaker 8: either Louder or Burns to pitch two hundred and fifty
Speaker 8: innings and be a first round pick. But that was
Speaker 8: the biggest thing, was like just finding a suitor somewhere
Speaker 8: in the teens or even twenties for him, because there's
Speaker 8: a lot of helium guys kind of rising into the
Speaker 8: teams right now, especially on the college pitching front, that
Speaker 8: you depending on who you guys safe. You served Fluky
Speaker 8: in some sense because of the fact that he just
Speaker 8: wasn't pitching this year.
Speaker 1: So in my opinion, at.
Speaker 8: The end of the day, he's going to be used
Speaker 8: as like, say, in this scenario, Lombard doesn't sign for under,
Speaker 8: maybe you get Fluky at a discount of twenty nine
Speaker 8: to kind of save you some some wiggle room, and
Speaker 8: then if you're the Giants, kind of start aiming for
Speaker 8: some higher priced guys later on to see, you know what,
Speaker 8: can we kind of get out of this to pair
Speaker 8: of these two together. So it's definitely a mix of both.
Speaker 8: And I still feel like the Angels probably still knock
Speaker 8: on his door try and wonder it's like, hey do
Speaker 8: we what do we do here?
Speaker 1: Because it's still.
Speaker 8: The angels like they still want to have a guy
Speaker 8: that rises quickly through the system with in Polise, I
Speaker 8: believe is the the scouting director is still there even
Speaker 8: with Nastian being fired, So you know, I think that's
Speaker 8: an early spot for him. But it was just really
Speaker 8: tough to find a suitor for him farther down with
Speaker 8: all the rising guys in this class, and it just
Speaker 8: felt like a match Bate and Haaven for the Giants
Speaker 8: to kind of go after this guy. And if you're
Speaker 8: the Giants, you're happy in that scenario, right you don't
Speaker 8: have any upside really starting pitching wise in that system
Speaker 8: right now.
Speaker 1: And to get a guy who, like you had.
Speaker 8: Mentioned the beginning of the year, preseason, number one arm
Speaker 8: in the country, I say you take out and Renova.
Speaker 2: If you're Giants, I feel like every year we're going
Speaker 2: to get the two way dream being sold to us
Speaker 2: on somebody. That dream almost never starts, and if it does,
Speaker 2: they put it on ice pretty quickly. But we're getting
Speaker 2: the two way dream a little bit here with Jared
Speaker 2: grindligger and super talented, obviously left handed pitcher and outfielder.
Speaker 5: And you know, you look at there's a reason why.
Speaker 2: I mean, these are special athletes that people talk themselves
Speaker 2: into with this and like I was just talking to
Speaker 2: Bryce Eldridge before a game not too long ago, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just asking him like semi ton and tongue
Speaker 2: in cheek, like does the pitching aspect ever? You know,
Speaker 2: I help you in the box when you're thinking about
Speaker 2: just what you would throw yourself. He's like, that helped me,
Speaker 2: like it low way, but now it feels like so
Speaker 2: far away ago. I it doesn't even really feel like
Speaker 2: part of this, like part of my career. And I
Speaker 2: never pitched a high enough level to really be able
Speaker 2: to to tap into that part of my brain. And
Speaker 2: that was a guy that I thought had as good
Speaker 2: of a chance as anybody because of the arsenal that
Speaker 2: he had on the mound as well, Like what are
Speaker 2: the chances that Grindwigger can actually do this?
Speaker 5: And is this gonna be baked into the eval?
Speaker 2: What do you think most teams see him as I
Speaker 2: think that's the fun part that's you usually split as
Speaker 2: like some teams will se him an outfielder, some teams
Speaker 2: will seehm as a left tended pitcher.
Speaker 5: I'm just curious what the assessment is there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was definitely considered and talking with Kylie mcdamuel
Speaker 8: at the USA Complex in March. Here's the vibe that
Speaker 8: I kind of get from him. Obviously, Grimlinger reclassed from
Speaker 8: twenty seven to twenty six really late. He's going to
Speaker 8: be seventeen years and two months on Saturday when he
Speaker 8: gets drafted, and that gives you a lot of lead
Speaker 8: time really with development pathways.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 8: The way that Kylie was explaining it to me was
Speaker 8: the fact that, like, hey, there's a chance that you
Speaker 8: get stuck at the complex for two years and it
Speaker 8: kind of create your own path from there. Basically, like
Speaker 8: depending on who you talk to, Like I've spoken to scouts,
Speaker 8: you prefer the bat, some prefer the arm. So there's
Speaker 8: not really definitive answer on like what he's going to
Speaker 8: do right now. I think that really speaks to the
Speaker 8: talent level on both sides of the ball for him,
Speaker 8: and the idea of putting him at the complex for
Speaker 8: two years is like, hey, let's let's find out what
Speaker 8: we think you can be really good at, and if
Speaker 8: you prove to us that you can be a legitimate
Speaker 8: two way player, then we'll we'll develop you as such.
Speaker 8: But if you happen to be better as one thing,
Speaker 8: or the other. Then we're going to go that direction
Speaker 8: and go from there. So that's the that's kind of
Speaker 8: how we've gone through the process with grim Linger is uh,
Speaker 8: you know, we are gonna have him as a two
Speaker 8: way prospect for now, but I think at the end
Speaker 8: of the day, maybe he does just go to one.
Speaker 8: But I think he's got the best chance of any
Speaker 8: recent two way prospect at the amateur level to to
Speaker 8: really be that two way guy. And you know, I've
Speaker 8: talked to it nauseam before, where like being a two
Speaker 8: way is incredibly difficult. You mentioned Eldridge and having this
Speaker 8: arsenal he had, and then he's a first round pick
Speaker 8: as a bat and you know, show Hay is obviously
Speaker 8: the cream of the crop. He's the guy that everybody
Speaker 8: looks at when it comes to two way guys. But
Speaker 8: being a legitimate two way at that kind of level,
Speaker 8: like show A has, is just outlier stuff. It's generational stuff, really,
Speaker 8: and that really just puts into respect of how hard
Speaker 8: it is to do that kind of thing. So we'll
Speaker 8: see what happens with Grimlinger, but I think at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, like there is a legitimate chance
Speaker 8: that he has the prowess to be a two way guy.
Speaker 5: I remember Bubba Chandler.
Speaker 2: Also, they let him swing it a little bit like
Speaker 2: at the Complex, and you know, you saw him leave
Speaker 2: the yard a couple of times.
Speaker 5: But it's like he's battling for his life in the box.
Speaker 2: So he's gonna have to work so hard to develop
Speaker 2: as a hitter, and you're gonna take away from from
Speaker 2: what can be you know, as a pitcher, which we've
Speaker 2: seen so many flashes of what can be there.
Speaker 5: So that was the biggest reason. I was curious too,
Speaker 5: because you saw bub but at least.
Speaker 2: Get some runway at the complex, and it was like, hey,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get a ton, but show us something
Speaker 2: quick and we'll see what can happen. But you have
Speaker 2: him going to the Rockies. That makes a lot of
Speaker 2: sense where they could have some more time there to
Speaker 2: kind of see.
Speaker 5: You know, what works.
Speaker 3: And Jack Higlion, I feel like, is another good example
Speaker 3: of a two way guy. Came out of Florida and
Speaker 3: he's throwing one hundred miles an hour. But you know
Speaker 3: they drafted him, I guess technically is a two way player.
Speaker 3: But then he started hitting bombs and now he's going
Speaker 3: to be in the home run derby, which was just
Speaker 3: announced today. Speaking about big lefties, there's another lefty at
Speaker 3: the end of the first round you have going to
Speaker 3: pick number thirty five, Brody Bamilla. I think that's how
Speaker 3: you pronounce his last name. Six foot nine, gigantic high
Speaker 3: school pitcher who's been up to one hundred miles an
Speaker 3: hour and he's been going viral online just because the
Speaker 3: stuff pops off the screen. But people might be surprised
Speaker 3: to say he's not even going in the top thirty picks,
Speaker 3: even though there is all of this perceived potential. So
Speaker 3: I'm curious if you could break down a guy that
Speaker 3: has been getting a lot of buzz, at least in
Speaker 3: social media circles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the biggest thing for him.
Speaker 8: And admittedly after we posted or like submitted this mod
Speaker 8: it came out that he had a second UCL injury,
Speaker 8: and being that young and having not only one but
Speaker 8: two UCL syrageries at this juncture, it doesn't necessarily help
Speaker 8: his case. You know, I understand like teams are not
Speaker 8: as scared available injuries as they were back when, like
Speaker 8: Mark Apell and trying to remember the guy who went
Speaker 8: to the Astros at one and then signed with the
Speaker 8: Guardians the year after. I can't remember his name, but uh,
Speaker 8: oh Bratty Aikin, that's who it was. So like, obviously
Speaker 8: that doesn't scare them as much, but the fact that
Speaker 8: it's more than just one injury at this point, uh,
Speaker 8: it kind of does speak volumes to how a how
Speaker 8: volatile prep pitching is and pitching in general. But also
Speaker 8: the same token, you know, injuries can be a death
Speaker 8: sentence when it comes to stuff like this. Unfortunately, and
Speaker 8: you know, as much as he hit one hundred, it
Speaker 8: is eighty grade fastball. It's amazing, Like the power prowess
Speaker 8: has always been there with that pitch. It never felt
Speaker 8: like there was as much helium after the season ended
Speaker 8: for him, and then it kind of came out as
Speaker 8: the combine started coming along.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, he might be injured.
Speaker 8: I remember getting a text from Brian Recca, who's done
Speaker 8: a phenomenal job in the Northeast, where he's like, hey,
Speaker 8: there's a potential injury here.
Speaker 1: Just heads up.
Speaker 8: And then it comes out, you know, two days ago
Speaker 8: that like, hey, he's now got an injury. Hasn't thrown
Speaker 8: the ball since the season ended, so it's a it's
Speaker 8: a tough blow, and I think when we kind of
Speaker 8: update this monk on Saturday morning for four point zero
Speaker 8: in the final edition of this there's a non zero
Speaker 8: chance that he might not even be on the mock,
Speaker 8: mainly because of that injury scare, which sucks because he's
Speaker 8: a very talented kid. You know, he was dropping forty
Speaker 8: points to twenty rebounds on the on the hardwood before
Speaker 8: he went out and started throwing a hundred on the mountain.
Speaker 8: So he's a very talented athlete for a kid his size,
Speaker 8: and wish him nothing but the best, but yeah, it's
Speaker 8: it's definitely a h an injury nightmare unfortunately with him,
Speaker 8: and just hope it all comes comes to fruition and
Speaker 8: hopefully everything will be back to normals he comes back
Speaker 8: from injury, but it's a it's a tough situation with him.
Speaker 2: So Justin Lebron is probably one of the most if
Speaker 2: not the most polarizing players in the draft, and I
Speaker 2: want to start with him, but then I also want
Speaker 2: to tee you up for like, in this mock, who's
Speaker 2: the player that could potentially you know, and maybe this
Speaker 2: is the answer that could go as high as a
Speaker 2: certain point and as low as a certain point, like
Speaker 2: who has the largest delta between the ceiling and the
Speaker 2: floor of where they could be drafted. You have Lebron
Speaker 2: going at seventeen, which I'd imagine is somewhere in the
Speaker 2: middle of that. For him, the shortstop from Alabama has
Speaker 2: all the defensive tools to be spectacular there, but sometimes
Speaker 2: struggles with the routine. Has the offensive ability to be
Speaker 2: an impactful hitter, but you struggled in conference playing, struggles
Speaker 2: with some swing and miss at points. So it's that
Speaker 2: tools and excitement, but you know some concerns as well
Speaker 2: to go with. That creates the classic volatile, polarizing player. Obviously,
Speaker 2: the Astros never deterred by risk when it comes to
Speaker 2: the draft, but they're also rarely picking even this high
Speaker 2: at seventeen. I'll start with Lebron and you know, what
Speaker 2: do you think his ceiling and floor is? Why do
Speaker 2: you think you know the Astros are a good landing spot.
Speaker 2: And then if he is not the most volatile of
Speaker 2: first round picks here in this mock draft, who's the
Speaker 2: guy that you think could go as high as X
Speaker 2: pick and as well as why pick?
Speaker 8: I definitely think it's going to be Lebron on both
Speaker 8: questions there, or at least when it comes to like
Speaker 8: he can go this high, but then his floor is
Speaker 8: all the way down here in the biggest reason, like
Speaker 8: you mentioned, the swing and miss has been a concern,
Speaker 8: Like every single year, we've kind of looked at Lebron.
Speaker 8: We're like, early in the season, like, hey, this looks
Speaker 8: like a legitimate top five pick. We did it last
Speaker 8: year and had him as the early one to one
Speaker 8: a year and a half out, and then he kind
Speaker 8: of fell off, and here comes Rock with an amazing season,
Speaker 8: and now he did the same thing. And I think
Speaker 8: even the defense has kind of fallen back just that
Speaker 8: little bit. You know, me and Aaron were talking about
Speaker 8: this the other week, where I still think he's very
Speaker 8: much capable of playing shortstop. I think we on a
Speaker 8: public scale underrate the development of defense at the pro
Speaker 8: level because when we like, for example, Cole Emerson wasn't
Speaker 8: necessarily a lockdown shortstop when he was drafted by the
Speaker 8: Mariners in twenty three, he was kind of this guy
Speaker 8: is like he has the tools to stick here, we're
Speaker 8: not sold on it yet. And now he's a legitimate shortstop.
Speaker 8: So I think there's a way you can clean up
Speaker 8: the defense a little bit. He's got the athleticism and
Speaker 8: the range in order to make it work. He was
Speaker 8: just really playing backfooted and really just wasn't didn't look
Speaker 8: as confident this year as he has in the past,
Speaker 8: So I think that's going to be something to work on.
Speaker 8: But swing and miss has never been good. Admittedly, like
Speaker 8: he hammers fastballs. I'll give him credit where credits due.
Speaker 8: Being able to delete fastballs on the top rail like
Speaker 8: he has has been fantastic and you don't find that
Speaker 8: often in an amateur prospect. But it just feels like
Speaker 8: he's guessing it's spin a little bit, like it's a
Speaker 8: mix of he doesn't recognize spin out of the hand
Speaker 8: and also his batpath just has it going right over
Speaker 8: these breaking balls and away. So I think at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, he has the tools to be
Speaker 8: a top ten pick in this class and even top
Speaker 8: five if everything kind of materialized. But you know, you
Speaker 8: look at the astros and go like, hey, they took
Speaker 8: Bryce Matthews a couple years ago kind of the same.
Speaker 8: I don't want to say the same exact mode of player,
Speaker 8: but like the tools are pretty similar. You know, has
Speaker 8: the questions with the hit tool. It's pretty big, right
Speaker 8: handed power that can play short stop and has great athleticism.
Speaker 8: So that's why it kind of made sense for us
Speaker 8: to put him at Houston at seventeen.
Speaker 1: Could he go lower than this?
Speaker 8: I think he can kind of into the twenties, but
Speaker 8: at the higher end of his spectrum, he could be
Speaker 8: back into the top ten pick. So he's one of
Speaker 8: the more confusing ones. Really in our conversations, was like,
Speaker 8: where do we really pick them? But the fit just
Speaker 8: felt perfect with Houston.
Speaker 3: So I have two more questions. I want to ask
Speaker 3: where kind of Jackson Flora were his ranges compared to
Speaker 3: others starting pitching number one in previous draft classes. And
Speaker 3: I have a theory to run by you about who
Speaker 3: I think will end up going number one overall. But
Speaker 3: let's real quick here from our friends at Hampton Farms,
Speaker 3: all right, So I got two questions. One of them
Speaker 3: again going back to the starting pitching conversation, Jackson Flora
Speaker 3: is going at number five in the mock draft and
Speaker 3: watching him at UCSB this year blowing one hundred miles
Speaker 3: an hour feel for a breaking ball, the nasty kick change,
Speaker 3: definitely a fantastic pitcher and a fantastic prospect. But I'm
Speaker 3: curious if you can compare him to the top starting
Speaker 3: pitchers in previous drafts, because in last year's draft, Kate
Speaker 3: Anderson when number three overall and arm correct my if
Speaker 3: I'm wrong, he hasn't allowed to hit all minor league season.
Speaker 3: I think take the numbers like right, and then I
Speaker 3: think the draft before right, it was Chase Burns, who
Speaker 3: is already up with the majors competing for a cy
Speaker 3: young Just comparing to those two and maybe drafts of
Speaker 3: the past, where does Jackson Flora fall into.
Speaker 8: Kind of towards the lower end of like the top
Speaker 8: arms taken in previous drafts?
Speaker 1: Admittedly like and it's not to say like Flora is
Speaker 1: bad or anything.
Speaker 8: I just think when you look at the strings sudden
Speaker 8: weaknesses of this class, weaknesses have been pitching, especially on
Speaker 8: the college front, and with Flora there's some stuff to
Speaker 8: really work on still, Like, yes, he throws a hundred,
Speaker 8: but the fastball shape is not necessarily the greatest. He's
Speaker 8: going to lose some vertical carry as he gets to
Speaker 8: pro ball with the different baseballs, and he only I
Speaker 8: think he averaged closer like seventeen or eighteen, So it
Speaker 8: will probably level out like fifteen to sixteen IVV and
Speaker 8: you know as much as one hundred as one hundred,
Speaker 8: like once he loses vee a little bit, it might
Speaker 8: hamper the effectiveness of the fastball. So we'll see what
Speaker 8: happens there. But feel has been fantastic. He has two
Speaker 8: incredible breaking balls and then also that kick change, which
Speaker 8: you know, we'll we'll talk about this more in depth
Speaker 8: probably on the live stream on Saturday. But he didn't
Speaker 8: have a change up last year. He didn't he when
Speaker 8: he threw like a variation of like a circle change
Speaker 8: zero whiffs on the year. Uh, he probably threw like
Speaker 8: ten of them. And this year it it comes in
Speaker 8: to be his most successful swing and mispitch most successful
Speaker 8: chase pitch, if I remember correctly, at like a forty
Speaker 8: rate and like a fifty per chase rate. It was
Speaker 8: ridiculous how good that pitch was this year. And I
Speaker 8: think that really saves him from you know, falling down
Speaker 8: the board a bit further than what he was. I
Speaker 8: think his range starts around I would say two to three.
Speaker 8: I don't necessarily know if his name's you know, been
Speaker 8: pushed in with the White Sox, but he's been rumored
Speaker 8: around like the Rays of Twins of like if they
Speaker 8: want to be if they target and really fancy a
Speaker 8: starting pitcher, they would they would be the places for him.
Speaker 8: But I think for there's legitimacy with the fact that,
Speaker 8: again they don't have a ton of starting pitching death
Speaker 8: in that farm system.
Speaker 1: For the Giants, Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh.
Speaker 8: They just know their their their strengths with development and
Speaker 8: pitching has been that the past couple of years.
Speaker 1: Royals also love him as well.
Speaker 8: So I think you'll go anywhere from like two to three,
Speaker 8: maybe down to like seven is probably his floor, but
Speaker 8: I really find a hard time to see him even
Speaker 8: go past six.
Speaker 3: Arm you got another question and you're ready form a theory.
Speaker 5: Now I'm ready for your theory.
Speaker 3: Okay, So first of all, I want to preface it
Speaker 3: with this, I'm a better and as a better I'm
Speaker 3: looking for value. So I'm throwing both of you my theory,
Speaker 3: and I understand it's not going to be perfect. I
Speaker 3: expect hopefully constructive criticism, but I'm coming from the position
Speaker 3: of this bet on BETMGM is plus five hundred, so
Speaker 3: I think it is a more likely scenario than the
Speaker 3: implied probability of sixteen point six seven percent. That's where
Speaker 3: I'm coming from, where I see value at this pick,
Speaker 3: and it gets into my theory of I think Chris
Speaker 3: gets is also going to be looking for value the
Speaker 3: GM of the White Sox in this draft. And you
Speaker 3: said at the beginning that the rumor that von Lackey
Speaker 3: was going to take eight and a half million dollars
Speaker 3: is not maybe necessarily true. But can we agree that
Speaker 3: he likely takes less money than it would to pay
Speaker 3: Rock Chulaski or Grady Emerson, who, funny enough, are represented
Speaker 3: by the same agency, so there's not really going to
Speaker 3: be haggling in between agents. That agency likely has already
Speaker 3: set their prices on Rock and Emerson. So can we
Speaker 3: at least agree that by drafting von Lackey it would
Speaker 3: be saving them money? Yes, yes, okay, good, So that's
Speaker 3: point number one. I also think that the White Sox
Speaker 3: are are drafting from a position of win now more
Speaker 3: than maybe some other teams in previous drafts who have
Speaker 3: gotten the number one overall pick, So drafting Grady Emerson
Speaker 3: he could be the model's favorite player, but an eighteen
Speaker 3: year old. The year after, they just drafted a high
Speaker 3: school shortstop at number ten, And then it kind of
Speaker 3: bleeds into my next point, just about drafting shortstops in general.
Speaker 3: The White Sex are in an interesting position because a
Speaker 3: lot of their key pieces are shortstops. In third basement,
Speaker 3: you got Colson Montgomery at twenty four years old, with
Speaker 3: plenty of years of arbitration, on pace to be the
Speaker 3: first left handed shortstop to ever hit forty home runs
Speaker 3: very very cheap. At third base, got Miguel Vargas, who
Speaker 3: is just named an All Star. And at first base,
Speaker 3: even if you were to move Vargas over there, you
Speaker 3: got moon to Takomarakami, who they still have for another
Speaker 3: year and a half. But then, on top of it,
Speaker 3: their number one prospect is Caleb Bonamer, who I know
Speaker 3: arm is brought up in multiple Knowlmilb reports on this
Speaker 3: show as a guy who just continues to pillage baseballs.
Speaker 3: And that's not even mentioning again, Billy Carlson, who they
Speaker 3: drafted number ten overall last season. I see a White
Speaker 3: Stocks team that shortstop or even third base is the
Speaker 3: least of their needs throughout their entire organization. And then
Speaker 3: I look at the catching position within their organization and
Speaker 3: I see among their top thirty prospects, their best catching
Speaker 3: prospect is not even above rookie ball. And then you
Speaker 3: look at the catchers in house. Edgar Carrow has clearly
Speaker 3: not gotten off to a good start at all. And
Speaker 3: then you have Kyle Teal, who I still believe in.
Speaker 3: I like Kyle Teal, armkes Kyle Teal. I think you
Speaker 3: like Kyle Teal. We all like Kyle Teal, But just
Speaker 3: looking at it right now, since he debuted, he has
Speaker 3: not been a very good defensive catcher, and at least
Speaker 3: now through this season he's struggling offensively. I still like him.
Speaker 3: I'm not holding him against him, just kind of bringing
Speaker 3: up that Kyle Teal is not the perfect catcher, like
Speaker 3: let's say Colson Montgomery is at short or Miguel Vargas
Speaker 3: is at third, Like if you were to pick between those,
Speaker 3: there's two clearly playing better than the other. So Von
Speaker 3: Lackey at plus five hundred, when you add up all
Speaker 3: of these different things, where the White Sox are also
Speaker 3: picking at pick forty one, do they go with a
Speaker 3: catcher who, in my opinion, is rightfully. In that group
Speaker 3: of three, I think Rock Scholaski and Grady Emerson are
Speaker 3: probably better prospects, but I think Von Lackey is right there.
Speaker 3: Because I'm no scout, I'm not pretending to be a
Speaker 3: scout either, But when I watched Lackie and Rock this year,
Speaker 3: I came away thinking Lacky is the better player. It's
Speaker 3: one season. It was just this past year. Rock also
Speaker 3: has a longer track record, and I don't watch high
Speaker 3: school games. I'm not going to pretend to say that
Speaker 3: I do. I've seen Grady Emerson highlights, looks awesome, but
Speaker 3: I haven't seen him in person. I haven't seen him
Speaker 3: throughout an entire game on TV like I've seen Rock
Speaker 3: and Von Lackey. So that's when I go back to
Speaker 3: the Von Lackey point. You got a catcher who at
Speaker 3: four hundred with a thirteen hundred OHPS, who I believe
Speaker 3: is going to be a better defender than Kyle t
Speaker 3: and might make the Bigs a little bit quicker, who
Speaker 3: knows maybe the same as Rock to again help the
Speaker 3: White Sox win. So you factor in position cost and
Speaker 3: the fact that Von Lackey is a damn good player.
Speaker 3: I think at plus five hundred, the likelihood he gets
Speaker 3: taken first overall is higher than sixteen point six seven percent.
Speaker 8: Thoughts, I don't hate that, I really don't, and kind
Speaker 8: of the three of your point because you mentioned the
Speaker 8: idea of like, okay, he signs for under slot and
Speaker 8: the White Soince historically the past couple of years have
Speaker 8: targeted a high school guy at their second overall pick
Speaker 8: or like their second round pick, rather where like they
Speaker 8: took Caleb Bonamber two years ago, they took Jayden Fowski
Speaker 8: last year, and Fauski looks like, you know, one of
Speaker 8: the better I would say trade chips in that White
Speaker 8: Sox system as well. So it totally makes sense in
Speaker 8: terms of like looking at that and also considering the
Speaker 8: the pipeline of talent in that farm system and looking
Speaker 8: at the major league roster where like, yeah, this is
Speaker 8: a team that's you know, they're picking one one, but
Speaker 8: they're they're good, you know, they're they're they're on the
Speaker 8: verge of I can't remember where they are in the standings.
Speaker 8: I think they're they are in the wildcard spot, or
Speaker 8: they're very close to one, or they're.
Speaker 1: Leading the division.
Speaker 3: Yeah, leading the division.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, Wow, I've paid attention to they will be
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 3: Apparently we'll give you're writing up a draft board of
Speaker 3: three hundred names. I think we know where you're attached at.
Speaker 3: Is that right now? Which is totally fine?
Speaker 1: That that is fair.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but like you know, I think that's a that's
Speaker 8: a great way of looking at it. And and also
Speaker 8: like I would say, like counterpoints like, yeah, Murricami's only
Speaker 8: got a year and a half left, see what happens
Speaker 8: from there. Maybe move Vargus over the first base when
Speaker 8: like if they pick Rock, move Rock to shore stop
Speaker 8: close in the third, and then when goes across I guess,
Speaker 8: and then Bonemer Bonemer really depends on what happens there
Speaker 8: is I guess it's a log jam. It is probably
Speaker 8: the best way to describe it. And like, I don't
Speaker 8: want to say it's a bad thing necessarily to have.
Speaker 3: Having a lot of great players is a great thing
Speaker 3: to have. I'm just saying for a position of need,
Speaker 3: if they don't see the gap between Lackeye and Rock
Speaker 3: Schlowski and Grady Emerson is that large and they can
Speaker 3: save money on Lackey, That's where I think potentially we
Speaker 3: could see him go number one overall, because again, this
Speaker 3: is not a cost saving pick. It just so happens
Speaker 3: to be a cost saving pick, and von Lackey is awesome.
Speaker 3: I'm curious your thoughts on my theory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think a lot of times with the
Speaker 2: when it comes to like log jam or perceived log jam,
Speaker 2: I don't think the team's care as much as like
Speaker 2: we do when we roster resource, like try to map
Speaker 2: it out. That said, like, I'm sure there's a wrinkle
Speaker 2: to it, but like Bonhamer, guy's gotta hit big league pitching,
Speaker 2: Like all these guys have to hit big league pitching,
Speaker 2: So you might as well have as many you know,
Speaker 2: infielders as you possibly can and try to see who
Speaker 2: can actually do it.
Speaker 5: The biggest thing to me is, and I think this
Speaker 5: is what it all comes down to.
Speaker 2: Is like if it is really like splitting hairs in
Speaker 2: the eyes of the White Sox between Lackey and Jelawski,
Speaker 2: then it makes a lot of sense because I think
Speaker 2: it won and I think Henry Davis is.
Speaker 5: Kind of a cautionary tale.
Speaker 2: You can't save money at one unless there's a really
Speaker 2: specific reason why you're doing it. In terms of like
Speaker 2: you don't see that much difference with the players, because
Speaker 2: for me, it's like, how often do you get to
Speaker 2: pick number one? Yeah, you can't get it wrong. You
Speaker 2: have to get number one right. Like that's how you
Speaker 2: lose jobs, is getting number one wrong. And so for me,
Speaker 2: it's just the question then comes down to what are
Speaker 2: the odds that Lackey and Jelaski are viewed in pretty
Speaker 2: much the same light? Tyler, you think but between these
Speaker 2: two in the eyes of the White Sox, because I
Speaker 2: think that's the only way that that that is possible,
Speaker 2: and I think that is possible, But I just I
Speaker 2: don't know how possible it is that they see these
Speaker 2: two players in the same light.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like I mentioned earlier, with that eight point five
Speaker 8: million dollar rumor that Lackey had at the combine, I
Speaker 8: am still very sure Name is involved in some way,
Speaker 8: shape or for him in that war room and will
Speaker 8: for the remainder of the week. But at the moment,
Speaker 8: it just feels like Rock and Emerson heaven the ones
Speaker 8: really brought up the most and I at least pressas
Speaker 8: with this too, Like we mentioned money savings and everything
Speaker 8: like that. You know, this is the first year where
Speaker 8: we have an eleven million dollars signing bonus at one
Speaker 8: to one, and the signing bonus record is still even
Speaker 8: holiday from a year ago, which I believe was nine
Speaker 8: point two five million. So I feel like, even then,
Speaker 8: if if Rock signs, for example, for nine point five million,
Speaker 8: he still gets the record and he saves the White
Speaker 8: Sox at least two million dollars to go after somebody
Speaker 8: at forty one, Whereas you know, obviously a Lacky does
Speaker 8: sign for eight point five, he saves them three million
Speaker 8: dollars and then can go big fish hunting at forty one.
Speaker 8: So it's an interesting theory to kind of look at
Speaker 8: it that way, where like, whoever they take it one
Speaker 8: pint one is going to save them a significant love
Speaker 8: summer change. But you're then kind of looking at it
Speaker 8: from like, Okay, if we get the first ever ten
Speaker 8: million dollar signee in the bonus pool era, you're saving
Speaker 8: only a mill and a half compared to what some
Speaker 8: of these other guys will bring to the table. So
Speaker 8: I think it's a again, it's it's definitely possible. I
Speaker 8: like the theory, Peter that you brought up, and I
Speaker 8: think it's definitely something to keep on the back burners,
Speaker 8: so we'll see what happens when it comes to the
Speaker 8: draft day. I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: like whoever they take, they it will be one of
Speaker 8: these top three, and I think we'll get a decision
Speaker 8: either an hour before the draft or.
Speaker 1: Or might go right to the buzzer. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 3: It really stems from the theory, at least, my belief
Speaker 3: in von Lackey. It's not because I think there's something
Speaker 3: wrong with Rock Schlawski at all. I think he breaks. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think he's gonna be an awesome player. I just
Speaker 3: believe in von Lackey. Like again, I'm not much of
Speaker 3: a scout. It's hard for me to notice, like when
Speaker 3: a catcher is average to blow average to above average,
Speaker 3: But I believe in a catcher defensively when I see
Speaker 3: him pop and I felt like I saw Kayden Bodine pop,
Speaker 3: I feel like a dumb on lacky pop and his
Speaker 3: ability to hit at the plate. I just feel like
Speaker 3: if he was playing third base or shortstop, or he
Speaker 3: was even a corner outfielder, he would still be a
Speaker 3: middle of the first round bat so and then he
Speaker 3: just so happens to be a really really athletic catcher,
Speaker 3: a leader of men. Listening to what the Georgia Tech
Speaker 3: guys said about him, you know, when their postgame press
Speaker 3: is like, this is a leader of men, and I
Speaker 3: just feel like he would be a great selection at
Speaker 3: number one overall. And then they just so happen to
Speaker 3: save money, and then they just so happened to need
Speaker 3: catchers more than shortstops in their basement. So that's where
Speaker 3: the theory comes from. We will see. I cannot wait.
Speaker 3: I also can't wait to read mock Draft four point zero,
Speaker 3: which again will likely come out maybe July tenth, July
Speaker 3: eleventh morning, of when can people expect that it's.
Speaker 8: Probably going to be Saturday morning on a eleven. Just
Speaker 8: that way we can try and get the most like
Speaker 8: connections with rumors that are going around like last year.
Speaker 8: Obviously did we get this right? No, but we had
Speaker 8: we had been to like the Ashros. We're in agreement
Speaker 8: with a prep player at twenty one. I was told
Speaker 8: tape that's south the scene went with him on the
Speaker 8: mock It turned out the being Xavor and Ninets and
Speaker 8: sat the scene with the pick after so like, you know,
Speaker 8: got it wrong, but like hey, that's usually the best
Speaker 8: time when we kind of start figuring some stuff out,
Speaker 8: so it'll probably be like a couple hours more draft
Speaker 8: time on Saturday morning. But either which way, like this
Speaker 8: this top three and thirteen board player like player board
Speaker 8: here that I've been working on, hoping to have it
Speaker 8: out tomorrow if not Friday morning, trying to get some
Speaker 8: maritimes so people can look at which players they want
Speaker 8: at their selections, and then Mock four point zero will
Speaker 8: come out Saturday morning.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much Tyler for coming on. This
Speaker 3: was a blast. I can't wait, you know, to talk
Speaker 3: more draft stuff with you on the day of the
Speaker 3: draft when you join our draft stroom, and it's going
Speaker 3: to be a blast, and we'll definitely be checking out
Speaker 3: Mock Draft four point zero, which again you can find
Speaker 3: on Just baseball dot com for Tyler Jennings arm lighton,
Speaker 3: I'm Peter Apple. The best way to support the Just
Speaker 3: Baseball Show make sure you smash the like bundon ansubscribe
Speaker 3: button And if you're listening to us on audio, best
Speaker 3: way to sport is leaving a five star review. And
Speaker 3: if you want to talk more draft stuff with us,
Speaker 3: make sure to join our discord using the link in
Speaker 3: the episode description for Tyler for Arum, I'm Peter, see
Speaker 3: you tomorrow. With that, thank you, everybody,