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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Cult Mom Laurie Valo.

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Speaker 3: As we all know, the trial is going fast and furious,

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Speaker 3: testimony and evidence pouring from the witness stand as now

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Speaker 3: we begin to see cult Mom Laurie Valo's inner circle

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Speaker 3: beginning to turn against her.

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us here at Paccination in Serious

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Speaker 3: Sex sem one eleven.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I want you to.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to the prior contestant in the Missus

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Speaker 3: Texas pageant.

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Speaker 4: And Laurie Ryan.

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Speaker 2: She is Missus Hayes County. Her husband saying day and

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Speaker 2: marry three and two children. Laurie does have stage present.

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Speaker 2: She's very poised. She did everything beautifully. Tell us who

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Speaker 2: you are what she did?

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Speaker 3: Dad?

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Speaker 5: Mom is very important to meet a wife and a good.

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Speaker 2: Worker and being all those things together. It's not easy.

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Speaker 6: So I'm basically a twoking time ball.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 7: Hey doing Laurie Laurie Ryan from Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 2: We're stylist in Austin. Hey right, the best? How was

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Speaker 2: the hair in Austin?

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Speaker 3: It's good goods that happening.

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Speaker 4: Place, probably thanks to you.

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Speaker 7: Talk about your family a little bit I have a.

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Speaker 5: Wonderful husband, Joseph at home, who is watching our two

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Speaker 5: beautiful children, Colby who's seven, and Tylie.

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Speaker 2: Who is one. Yep, what do you guys like to

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Speaker 2: do for fun?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 5: We like to play all kinds of sports on our

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Speaker 5: three acres.

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Speaker 8: Okay, it sounds like we have a nice life there.

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Speaker 2: We did, Engratulations, leased to have you with us.

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Speaker 3: They did until Joseph Ryan ended up dead. Let's see

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Speaker 3: which husband was that, Jackie two? I think number two.

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Speaker 3: Now I've got Charles Valo is dead. Now I've got

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Speaker 3: Tyley dead, We've got JJ dead.

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Speaker 2: We've got the wife of.

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Speaker 3: Her new husband, number five, the prophet Chad Dabill dead.

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Speaker 3: That would be Tammy Davil. I'm missing a body, who

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Speaker 3: is it? Let's see.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure Nate Eaton can help me.

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Speaker 3: I haven't totally memorized my flow chart, but that's what

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Speaker 3: I need to attach all the dead bodies to cult. Mom,

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Speaker 3: Laurie Valo, you were just hearing Lori Vello competing in

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Speaker 3: Missus Texas and then again on the Will of Fortune

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Speaker 3: with Pat Sajak as she describes her happy life with

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Speaker 3: Joseph Ryan before he ends up dead. Nate Eaton joining me,

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Speaker 3: news director Easidaho news dot com.

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Speaker 2: Nate, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: I understand that calte Mam Laurievalo's quote inner circle is

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Speaker 3: turning on her.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, for the past few days, two of her very

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Speaker 8: very close friends during all of this took the stand

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Speaker 8: in court and made told all they spilled the tea

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Speaker 8: you could say about casting quote unquote zombies out of people,

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Speaker 8: about the text messages that we're going back and forth

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Speaker 8: about how the night that somebody showed up in Tammy

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Speaker 8: Davell's driveway with a gun and fired it at her.

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Speaker 8: Laurie then texted, we now that that was Alex Cox,

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Speaker 8: her brother. By the way, Laurie then texted when Tammy

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Speaker 8: did not die, that she couldn't do anything right, that

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Speaker 8: he was an idiot and a moron.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, wh why why you got me drinking from

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Speaker 3: the fire hydrant again? And to the rest of the panel,

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Speaker 3: do I have to remind you, especially you doctor Michael Bowden,

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Speaker 3: We're not having high tea at Windsor Castle with King Charles.

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Speaker 2: Okay, jump in when you have a thought.

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Speaker 9: Alex was the one you were looking for. Alex before

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Speaker 9: you were looking for the last one.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Alex Cox, thank you, thank you so Nate Eaton,

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Speaker 3: let me understand this before we even get to we're

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Speaker 3: still talking.

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Speaker 2: About JJ and Tiler here too. Children. One was basically

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Speaker 2: her medically sealed and duct tape and plastic. That was JJ.

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Speaker 2: Tilely was dismembered and rendered down to there's.

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Speaker 3: No nice way to put it, a bucket full of

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Speaker 3: human fat and flesh that had been burned, charred. That

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Speaker 3: was what was left of this beautiful teen girl, Tylely.

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Speaker 3: But you're talking about texts and you got into Tammy

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Speaker 3: daybill her death. Alice Cox took a shot at her.

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Speaker 3: She wrongly thought it was somebody doing a prank with

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Speaker 3: a paintball gun. And after he didn't kill her in

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Speaker 3: her driveway, are you saying that called mom? Laurie Valo

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Speaker 3: sent him a series of vengeful texts and messages because

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Speaker 3: he failed.

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Speaker 8: Well, that very night, Laurie was gathered with this close

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Speaker 8: group of friends to do a casting ceremony which they

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Speaker 8: said they were trying to cast the evil spirits out

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Speaker 8: of Tammy. And at the end of this ceremony, Laurie

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Speaker 8: said that was the said that was great, And then

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Speaker 8: she got a call and these friends testified that on

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Speaker 8: that call, she was saying, he's an idiot, he's a moron,

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Speaker 8: he can't do anything right. At the time, the friends

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Speaker 8: did not know that Alex Cox was an Idaho supposedly

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Speaker 8: taking a shot at Tammy in the driveway. But Laurie

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Speaker 8: was furious that whatever was going on there didn't happen.

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Speaker 8: Then ten days later, Tammy Davell dies in her sleep.

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Speaker 8: We now know of ashixiation.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was determined to be manual strangulation.

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Speaker 8: No assixiation. They said that the other.

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Speaker 2: Day in corp just asphyxiation.

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Speaker 8: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Yea. So when the brother failed taking a shot at her,

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Speaker 3: she had to die another way. I think I hear.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Michael Bodden. First of all, let me introduce to you,

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Speaker 3: doctor Biden, a long time.

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Speaker 2: Colleague and friend goes back a long time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we really do, doctor Biden, And not necessarily because

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Speaker 3: of your your fame as being one of the world's

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Speaker 3: most pre eminent medical examiners, but because I'm friends with

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Speaker 3: your wife.

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Speaker 2: That's how that happened.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Michael Boden, former Chief medical examiner in New York City,

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Speaker 3: never a lack of business there. Co director of New

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Speaker 3: York State Police Medico Legal Investigations, author of American Autopsy

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Speaker 3: and you can find him at doctor Michael Boden dot com.

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Speaker 2: What were you saying? Doctor?

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Speaker 9: What I was going to say with Tammy was odd?

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Speaker 9: Was initially when she was found dead back in October nineteenth,

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Speaker 9: twenty nineteen, and autopsy was not done. She was exhumed

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Speaker 9: a year later, in December, well about a year later,

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Speaker 9: I think, And as far as I could find, I

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Speaker 9: hadn't listened in the trial. The results had not been released,

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Speaker 9: but I guess the results were assixiation. That assisiation could

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Speaker 9: be a net compression or just putting a pillow over

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Speaker 9: nose and mouth just means you couldn't breathe.

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Speaker 2: So how do you tell? Doctor Michael bidden?

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Speaker 3: And I know I've taken us off on a tangent,

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Speaker 3: but I blame Nate Eaton completely for that. We were

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Speaker 3: talking about tiling and JJ that was my plan. But

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Speaker 3: you have to go where the evidence takes you. How

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Speaker 3: can you look at a body, Dr Boden and tell

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Speaker 3: whether the person died of manual ligature or asphyxiation, And

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Speaker 3: what are the differences.

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Speaker 9: Well, asphyxiation means the person can breathe is of course,

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Speaker 9: it is the mechanism of death, but a net compression,

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Speaker 9: manual ligature, or holding a pillow over the nose and

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Speaker 9: mouth cause death the same way. So asphyxiation can occur

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Speaker 9: in a number of different ways, especially if she's found

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Speaker 9: in bed and has a strong husband. Just putting a

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Speaker 9: pillow over the nose, mouth and holding down for a

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Speaker 9: few minutes can cause death and leave no marks. That's

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Speaker 9: the most difficult kind of death to determine at autopsy.

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Speaker 9: You have to a lot of other information. But the

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Speaker 9: autopsy should also have looked for fractures of the highway

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Speaker 9: bone or the thyroid cartilage, which could be helpful in

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Speaker 9: determining if there was manual strangulation, and if there's ligature

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Speaker 9: mark around the neck, which may or may not be

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Speaker 9: apparent after exhumation.

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Speaker 3: Fill Waters with us for more Homicide detective with the

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Speaker 3: Houston PD, President and CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations and Security,

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Speaker 3: Phil thanks a lot for being with us. I'm just

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Speaker 3: really stunned that authorities did not insist on an autopsy

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Speaker 3: at the time, because you've got a husband as he says,

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Speaker 3: sleeping away, and he wakes up and his wife is

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Speaker 3: whoops dead and it was.

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Speaker 2: Believed she quote died in her sleep.

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Speaker 3: I guess a heart attack, But I mean he was

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Speaker 3: already having a sex affair with Caltmam Laurie Vello. That

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Speaker 3: would be enough to raise a big red flag for me.

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Speaker 10: It is one of those situations you'd already used the term.

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Speaker 10: When I was a holicide detective. I always let the

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Speaker 10: able just leave me where I need to be, and

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Speaker 10: it's always a journey for the truth. And the problem

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Speaker 10: is at the time, people, investigators, the authorities, they don't

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Speaker 10: know what they don't know. Now, there's nothing at the

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Speaker 10: scene that would indicate that there was some sort of

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Speaker 10: suspicious death surrounding Tammy. I can understand why they did

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Speaker 10: not call for an autopsy.

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Speaker 3: You do understand when a forty nine year old woman

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Speaker 3: who was in training for a marathon just dies in

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Speaker 3: her sleep without a sound.

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Speaker 10: The guy that wrote the book Running died of a

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Speaker 10: heart attack while he was running at an early ag

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Speaker 10: up in me.

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Speaker 2: He died running.

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Speaker 3: Hello, I'll probably have atack going up the stairs. But

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I can understand dying of a heart

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Speaker 3: attack while you're running.

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Speaker 10: But when you're sleeping, well, people that die, and there's

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Speaker 10: been people that die in their sleep all the time.

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Speaker 3: A minute, Phil Waters, I know you are a renowned

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Speaker 3: homicide detective, but I'm not taking your medical advice.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, doctor Budden.

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Speaker 3: The people usually kill over in their sleep from a

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Speaker 3: heart attack.

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Speaker 10: But what I'm saying is is that at the time,

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Speaker 10: if there is nothing that would indicate that there's something

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Speaker 10: suspicious about is if that I'm.

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Speaker 2: Holding I'm literally holding my nose right now because that stinks.

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Speaker 10: I'm just telling you you have to look at these

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Speaker 10: things objectively when I get there, and I'm just saying

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Speaker 10: that if there wasn't something there that that showed it

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Speaker 10: was something other than a medical death, there would have

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Speaker 10: been no reason for an automation.

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Speaker 2: Phil Waters. Well wait, Phil Waters? Are you there? Phil Good? Okay,

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Speaker 2: speak up, because I'm losing you. I can't really hear

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Speaker 2: you that.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, you're gonna have an optopy in Florida for tour.

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Speaker 2: Dell Carson Waters. What do I have to do to

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Speaker 2: get a sound check in this place? Phil? Say something?

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Speaker 10: Well, I wasn't talking that everybody else is talking.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Good Okay, now stop, doctor Bowden. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: Phil Waters, are you married, Yes, ma'am, stop right there.

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Speaker 2: Stop. That was a yes.

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Speaker 3: No, Because if you die in the middle of the

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Speaker 3: night with no prior history of heart problems, and your

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Speaker 3: wife is texting and sleeping with some other guy, God forbid,

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Speaker 3: and she tells me, oh, he died in his sleep,

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Speaker 3: don't worry, Phil, I'm gonna throw her face down on

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Speaker 3: the floor and arrest her with the paracuffs and drag

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Speaker 3: her out by her toes. Okay, and you can tell

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Speaker 3: her that for me, because I'm not buying it. That

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Speaker 3: said to doctor Michael By, I didn't know people typically

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Speaker 3: kill over dad in their sleep with a heart attack.

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Speaker 9: Well, yeah, that's a common way. People who have pre

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Speaker 9: existing diagnosed severe corner or artery disease can die in

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Speaker 9: their sleep.

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Speaker 2: How about no pre existing like Tammy Davis.

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Speaker 9: And it's very unusual to die in your sleep with

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Speaker 9: it if you don't have pre existing evidence of heart disease.

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Speaker 9: But in this justice in some states require the medical

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Speaker 9: examiner to get involved. Others like where what I read

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Speaker 9: through about Tammy Chad had objected to it, did not

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Speaker 9: want an autopsy and apparently if the Mexican doesn't want

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Speaker 9: an autopsy unless there's something obvious at the scene, they

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Speaker 9: just signed it out without an autopsy because he was

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Speaker 9: the next akin.

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Speaker 2: And so let me one more time. And I know

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Speaker 2: it's hard to get doctor Biden to answer yes or no.

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Speaker 2: I hate to even try to cross examine it.

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Speaker 3: I might as well go back in the courtroom because

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Speaker 3: I'm a JD, not a DD.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not good at pulling teeth, but.

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Speaker 3: I declare all of you on this panelists hostile witnesses

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's what's going to be. So doctor Boden to.

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Speaker 3: Reiterate, with no prior history of heart problems, heart murmurs,

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Speaker 3: heart anything, no history, you would agree with me that

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Speaker 3: it's highly unlikely that Tammy Dave Bill killed over intersleep

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Speaker 3: with a heart attack.

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Speaker 9: Yes, I agree with that.

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Speaker 2: How long did that take me? Eight minutes.

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Speaker 10: We're looking at this, we're looking at this as what

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Speaker 10: we know now, we're looking at it backwards. So I'm

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Speaker 10: just saying at the time, and I'm not defending anybody here,

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Speaker 10: I'm just saying, at the time, at the time, there

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Speaker 10: was nothing to suggest that this was suspicious and just

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Speaker 10: as doctor Biden is alluded to, if the request for

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Speaker 10: an autopsy is by virtue of a the next of

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Speaker 10: Ken and the next of Ki and it says they

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Speaker 10: don't want one, and that's what they're going to abide

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Speaker 10: by it.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know about you, guys, but when the

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Speaker 3: nextic Kain says I don't want an autopsy, that's exactly

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Speaker 3: when I'm going to start questioning them separately.

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Speaker 4: That said, let's.

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Speaker 2: Tell you, speaking of texting and emailing and sneaky sex

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Speaker 2: where nobody can find out you're with the person, let's

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Speaker 2: take a listen to a not so sneaky email our

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Speaker 2: cut two three seven. Take a listen to this. I

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Speaker 2: bet you can figure out who this is.

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Speaker 6: From Charles at Wright Planning Group. Email address to Tammy

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Speaker 6: dot davel at gmail dot com on June thirtieth, at

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Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, at ten sixteen am. The subject line in

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Speaker 6: the email is your husband and my wife and the

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Speaker 6: body of the email reading are having an affair. Her

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Speaker 6: name is Lori Valo. I've got definite proof or definitive proof.

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Speaker 6: If you care to see it, contact me and I'll

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Speaker 6: share it with you. It's devastating. I know, but the

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Speaker 6: truth needs to be shown. Charles Valow, and from your

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Speaker 6: review of the device, were you able to determine whether

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Speaker 6: or not Tammy Dabo would have actually read these emails.

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Speaker 6: I did contact at least Sugar Salem School District and

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Speaker 6: asked if those were read. There's no indication that they were.

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Speaker 6: They said they could have been deleted, read and deleted

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Speaker 6: or just deleted, but there's no indication.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Nate aiden he's directorside news dot com. Well that sure.

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Speaker 3: Let's just say here's a legal term. That's the turd

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Speaker 3: in the in the punch bowl. All right, there goes

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Speaker 3: Tammy day Bill's happy life. She was living in blissful

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Speaker 3: ignorance about her husband. And believe me, I don't think

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Speaker 3: that cal Malmory Valo was special.

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Speaker 2: I think there were many other women that he would

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Speaker 2: this was actually his punchline. I might need to shrink

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Speaker 2: on this, Doctor Anderson. He would say, you've lived a

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Speaker 2: prior life, and you and I were married, so basically

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Speaker 2: we've already had six so there's nothing wrong with it.

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Speaker 3: Don't try that at a bar anybody, but Nate Ayton.

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Speaker 3: So here we have Detective Nathan Duncan out of the

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Speaker 3: kim Er police testifying as to this email. So do

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Speaker 3: we know if Tammy day Bell read that email?

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Speaker 8: No, there's no indication of that, Nancy, And this was interesting.

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Speaker 8: When the detective took the stand, he went through a

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Speaker 8: series of emails one after the other between Charles Valo,

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Speaker 8: Laurie da Bell Valo at the time, Tammy day Bell,

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Speaker 8: and Chad Dave Bell. Basically, Charles Valo found on his

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Speaker 8: computer these emails that showed side of an affair. He

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Speaker 8: reached out to all parties involved and said, somebody come

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Speaker 8: clean with this. Somebody tell us what's going on here.

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Speaker 8: He gave Lurie a deadline. He said, you have until

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Speaker 8: tomorrow or I'm calling Tammy. I'm contacting Tammy. Maury responded,

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Speaker 8: she won't talk to you. She's my friend. So Charles

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Speaker 8: reached out. He then confronted Chad, who never responded to

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Speaker 8: an email. Ten days letter later, Charles Valo is shot dead.

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Speaker 2: Well, you have to command Charles Valo.

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Speaker 3: He didn't take the predictable route of just throwing a

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Speaker 3: firebomb into Chad day Bell's house.

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Speaker 2: He tried to email them, but I'm curious, I'm very curious. Nadine.

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Speaker 3: We have no way to determine whether Tammy day Bell

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Speaker 3: or her husband, Chad day Bell, read the email.

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Speaker 2: So she went to her death not knowing her husband

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Speaker 2: was cheating.

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Speaker 8: Well, I don't know. I don't know. According to the detective,

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Speaker 8: we don't He says, they don't know if she read

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Speaker 8: the email or not. But what another witness said is

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Speaker 8: that the second Tammy started to suspect there was an affair,

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Speaker 8: suddenly she moved from the light list to the dark list,

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Speaker 8: and as zombie possessed her body.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you're scaring me because you actually say this like

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Speaker 3: you believe it's real. Like a zombie really did possess

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Speaker 3: Tammy day Tammy Davebell's body, and everybody that was against

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Speaker 3: Lori Valo, who's sex affair with Chad Dabail turns into

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Speaker 3: a zombie.

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Speaker 2: Let's see, there's Charles Valo. He died JJ Tyley Tammy.

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Speaker 3: I know the cod cause of death on Alex Cox,

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Speaker 3: but I find a hard time believing it that he died.

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Speaker 2: Is that Bonden.

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Speaker 9: Speaking, Yeah, he conveniently died of at one place. They say,

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Speaker 9: an brain aneurysm, another pumer embolism. It'd be an interesting

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Speaker 9: autopsy report to look at.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're so smart. Oh I didn't think of that.

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Speaker 2: I'm kicking myself. Yes, And what.

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Speaker 9: Impressed me most was Hammy and Chad had been married,

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Speaker 9: from what I read, for thirty years. This wasn't an

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Speaker 9: honor and or thing. They were married thirty years before

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Speaker 9: she died in her sleep.

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Speaker 3: Could you guys once again? Now, I can't blame Boden

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Speaker 3: for this. You're leading me down the garden path and

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Speaker 3: I have no desire to put the bus back in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the road.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Dana Anderson and Del Carson jump in when you

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Speaker 2: when you.

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Speaker 7: Want to, Nancy, i'd like to see you.

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Speaker 3: Would you go ahead, because I've got to form a

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Speaker 3: medical question and it's going to take me a second.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, doctor Dana Anderson with me forensic psychologist, forensic

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Speaker 3: expert at psychology doctor dot com.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, doctor Dana.

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Speaker 7: Well, officially, I'd like to go on record and request

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Speaker 7: that if I ever die, I would like an autopsy,

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Speaker 7: and I'm hoping we can just drop a legal draft

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Speaker 7: about that right now.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry, I'll handle it next.

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Speaker 9: You can, because once you die, you have probably property.

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Speaker 9: You have property of the next to kin, and the

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Speaker 9: next to kin agrees too fine.

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Speaker 2: But if not, I don't know, Biden, I'll find a

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Speaker 2: way round. You stick to your autopsy table. I'm out

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Speaker 2: of the courtroom. Go ahead, dodgor Dana.

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Speaker 5: Well, and second of all.

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Speaker 7: I agree, we're going to all need to see a

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Speaker 7: shrink after all of listening to all this nonsense and.

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Speaker 8: To debriefing about all.

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Speaker 7: Of this glor Vallow and her beliefs.

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Speaker 2: About these zombies.

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Speaker 7: It's just it's infuriating.

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Speaker 3: And I'm angry doctor Dana that she could attempt or

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Speaker 3: maybe even persuaded your r that she has mental problems.

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Speaker 2: But she's crazy.

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Speaker 3: She's crazy like a fox because everybody that she believes

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Speaker 3: has gone to the dark side, has become a zombie,

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Speaker 3: ends up dead. She's using her religious beliefs to get

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Speaker 3: rid of anything and anybody that stands in the way

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Speaker 3: of her hopping in bed with the prophet Daybill.

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Speaker 4: Well, remember when she was castigating her brother or not

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Speaker 4: carrying out the shooting properly. That's all part of the plan.

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Speaker 4: You have a seance or whatever the hell it's called,

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Speaker 4: and then you determine that you've cashed out the evil

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Speaker 4: spirit and then suddenly that person dies, so it validates

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Speaker 4: the entire process to your friends. It's pretty clever, really.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 3: Deil Carci joining me, high profile lay round of Jacksonville.

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Speaker 3: And this is the part I really like. Former FBI

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Speaker 3: agent and former cop with Miami Dade. Never like a

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Speaker 3: business there as well an author of arrest Proof yourself.

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Speaker 3: So let me circle back, doctor Baden, I've never explored this,

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Speaker 3: and that was genius what you just said. For you,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure it's like routine, but it's not. You identified

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Speaker 3: two conflicting cod causes of death for Alex Cox, the

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Speaker 3: so called Avenging Angel. For mamlaur Valle her words, not mine,

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Speaker 3: and they were embolism and aneurysm.

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Speaker 9: Brain aneurysm that ruptured.

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Speaker 2: What is the difference between the two, Well.

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Speaker 9: One is getting blood clots and the legs that then

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Speaker 9: break off and go to the rungs and cause a

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Speaker 9: natural death. The other is a rupture of an aneurysm

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Speaker 9: the brain that can be treated if got to the hospital,

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Speaker 9: but if not, the person dies of brain hemorrhage. Both

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Speaker 9: unusually natural deaths.

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Speaker 2: What's an aneurysm, It's.

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Speaker 9: A ballooning out of a blood vessel.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, wait a minute, let me catch up

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Speaker 3: with you. Okay, they didn't teach this in law school.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute. And embolism you're saying is a blood

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Speaker 3: clot typically in the legs that can go to the

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Speaker 3: heart or the lungs.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you said?

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Speaker 9: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: And a brain aneurysm, Hey, is it anurism or anaysm?

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Speaker 9: And you're an eu r for so.

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Speaker 3: Many people say anaysm, but it's aneurysm. A brain aneurysm

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Speaker 3: is when a blood vessel balloons and ruptures in the brain. Right,

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Speaker 3: two totally different things, because I thought for a minute

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Speaker 3: that they were both kind of like a blood clot

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Speaker 3: but they're not at all, Well.

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Speaker 10: Totally, if I can, if I can say something real

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Speaker 10: quick here, Remember too that the ATASI the Talks results

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Speaker 10: on Scott on Cox show that he had narcan in

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Speaker 10: his system, so I don't know if that's a contributing

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Speaker 10: factor or not.

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Speaker 2: Good point is that Phil Water speaking, Yes, ma'am. Good point.

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Speaker 2: He had interesting would it, doctor Biden? And why in

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Speaker 2: the world did he have narkin in his system?

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Speaker 9: That usually would indicate that the ambulance response when he

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Speaker 9: was found. Yes, yes, they came, and they would give

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Speaker 9: an arcan just in case it's a drug overdose. But

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Speaker 9: the narkhan doesn't close any harm.

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Speaker 3: So Nate eaton. That's another fun thing for you to

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Speaker 3: do in all your spare time. Nate eating Everyone joining

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Speaker 3: me from East Idaho News dot Com has been in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: He was there before they even brought in. Called mom,

441
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: Laurie Valo.

442
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: Okay, tell me what's the latest before I go for

443
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 3: Oh hey, hey, I want you to hear one more email.

444
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: This is a humdinger. Take a listen our cut to

445
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: thirty eight.

446
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 6: The message from Charles to Laurie on June thirtieth. I

447
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 6: believe it should be twenty nineteen Zeroly forty two. Laurie.

448
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 6: I know you don't care how I feel, but just

449
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 6: imagine this. How could my actions or breaking your heart

450
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 6: result in what you've done. You accuse me of infidelity,

451
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 6: but it's you who have been having an affair. It

452
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 6: just keeps killing me. Maybe that's your goal. How can

453
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 6: you live with yourself destroying our life? Mel and Brandon's

454
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 6: probably mel and Brandon too now add Chad Davell Family

455
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 6: and you've got a home run. The fact you will

456
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 6: continue to go to the temple after all you've done

457
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 6: shocks me. There really is something wrong with you. I

458
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 6: really don't want to do what I have to do,

459
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 6: but you have to be exposed for what you really are.

460
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: And he didn't quite make it to exposing his wife

461
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: because he was murdered. And take listen to two three nine.

462
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: It doesn't end there.

463
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 6: July first, twenty nineteen, at ten thirty one, Charles to Laurie.

464
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 6: I'm going to Idaho first to meet with Tammy Davelle.

465
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 6: Laurie responds to Charles a minute later, she won't see you.

466
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 6: She is my friend. She won't listen to you. Go ahead.

467
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 6: You are ridiculous. Are you coming to JJ for the

468
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 6: fourth or not? Charles responded to Laurie July first, twenty

469
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 6: nineteen at ten thirty seven. Then you tell me why

470
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 6: you used my name and and fictitious email to send

471
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 6: a BS email about a book. I am having him

472
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 6: ghost write for me. It's fraud and a lie. There's

473
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 6: no reason for it other than to get him in

474
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 6: Arizona and have an excuse for his wife.

475
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: That you're hearing the detective reading. That's Detective Nathan Duncan,

476
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: and he's not a dramatic person at all. I find

477
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: him to be very down to earth. But when he

478
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: was reading that email from Charles Valow to Lori Vaalo Cultmom,

479
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: it was very heartbreaking. I was saying, I can't believe

480
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: you're doing this and tearing apart of our family. And

481
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 3: here you've been accusing me of an affair. You're the

482
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: one having an affair, and now you're going to go

483
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 3: to temple like nothing ever happened. And how long after

484
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: those emails Nate Eaton, after he threatened to expose.

485
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: The affair to Tammy Dabill, did he die?

486
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 8: Oh less than two weeks? And I got to tell you,

487
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 8: as he read those emails for forty five minutes and

488
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 8: text messages, the jurors were fixed on this detective. Many

489
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 8: were writing notes. Many were looking directly at Lori Valos.

490
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 8: She's sitting directly across from them in the courtroom. They

491
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 8: can look at her the entire time. Laurie was taking

492
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 8: notes herself, occasionally looking up at the detective, occasionally talking

493
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 8: with her attorneys. They were all focused on this. But

494
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 8: I have to tell you the most memorable moment thus

495
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 8: far is the second that the prosecutors put up what

496
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 8: was left of highly on the screen, pictures of Keith,

497
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 8: of half of a soul, of the bucket of flesh.

498
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 8: And then we thought JJ wrapped in duct tape, and

499
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 8: then we saw Tammy's autopsy photos. And after all of that,

500
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 8: they showed the photo of Chad and Laurie on the

501
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 8: beach holding hands with those wedding rings they bought on Amazon.

502
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 8: As they said, this case boils down to three things, money, power, sets.

503
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 3: I've got to ask you night eight, what was called

504
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: mom Laurie Valle doing? Did she ever look at the jury?

505
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: Does she keep scribbling notes the whole time?

506
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 8: Laurie has been very engaged with her attorney. She's taking notes,

507
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 8: she's whispered. At one point one of her attorneys said,

508
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 8: you need to stop talking to me. I need to focus.

509
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, you know that's really interesting deal, Carson. I

510
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 3: don't know about you, but I tried every one of

511
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: my cases solo because I could not have anybody talking

512
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: to me during a trial.

513
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: It's like a tennis match.

514
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: Witness jury, witness jury till the judge breaks in and

515
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: says something. But I would even have to have my investigator,

516
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 3: who I had for ten years, who I love to

517
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: this day.

518
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: We only ever had.

519
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: One argument ten years over that idiot OJ Simpson. No offense,

520
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 3: doctor Michael Biden. But Deal Carson, of course she's taking notes. Yeah,

521
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: I want to ask you, doctor Biden, how did you

522
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: guys get OJ Simpson to write notes?

523
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: What was he playing Hayman's with himself?

524
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: But El Carson, that's what they do when they can't

525
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: look the jury in the eyes. They act like they're

526
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: taking notes. They're just drawing squiggly lines.

527
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. It's very disconcerting because you've got to

528
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: watch the witnesses as they testify. You've got to look

529
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: at their faces, you've got to look at their verbal

530
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: and tonal responses to questions. And then you have somebody

531
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: sitting right at your shoulder grabbing it, wanting to talk

532
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: to you because they're nervous because the witness is doing

533
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: in rather excellent job. So it's extremely upsetting and probably

534
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: when they do that.

535
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: So, doctor Biden, I guess you're going to tell me

536
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: what OJ Simpson was really drawing on those notepads.

537
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: And notice I said drawing, not writing.

538
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 9: I'll tell you what the one of the lawyers there

539
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 9: was drinking. It wasn't soda.

540
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: I have no doubt I managed to get a little

541
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: bit out of Conchrane during the time that I worked

542
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: with him at Court TV. God rest his soul because

543
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: he's sure had away with a jury. But I would

544
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: not be surprised at all if it would drive anybody.

545
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 9: It was the other heavyweight lawyer, Belly e Flee Billy

546
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 9: was taking mints during the trial while I was there,

547
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 9: and because he was drinking vodka, well I just assume.

548
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: E Flee Billy was having a drink during the trial.

549
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: But Okay, when you have something else to shot me,

550
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: go ahead and tell me.

551
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: But I can tell you this much.

552
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: Nate Eaton, news director East Idaho News dot com. I'm

553
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: a teetotaler and this is about to drive me to

554
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: a drink and I don't even know what I want

555
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: to drink. Listen to all this because behind all this,

556
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: I keep thinking about I think about JJ, but I

557
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: think more about Tyley, even though JJ was only seven

558
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: years old. I keep thinking about my twins at age seven.

559
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: But Tyley was dismembered, her bones broken, severed, and then

560
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: she was burned and all.

561
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: That was less.

562
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: She was so dis respected even in death, all that

563
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: was left was this half melted bucket of fat and

564
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: human tissue. That's all that was left of this beautiful

565
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: girl with that great big smile she had because she

566
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: got in called my Laurie Valle's way. And some of

567
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: this sounds laughable, it's not when you think about it

568
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: like that.

569
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

570
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: You know who was a great witness Eaton was this?

571
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: Is it?

572
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: Zuleima Pastenis? How do you say Alex Fox's widow's name?

573
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 3: Zulema Pastena's. Guys, take a listen to our cut two five, two,

574
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: three and four.

575
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: So you went to Ms.

576
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 11: Gibbs House and did you see the defendant there?

577
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: Yes? Tell us about that first meeting. What happened during

578
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: that first meeting.

579
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 5: Laurie was speaking, and during this meeting she was giving

580
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 5: a testimony that she had had visitations of angels, and

581
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 5: that she had visitations of the angel Morone that was

582
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 5: giving her instructions, and that she was a personal witness

583
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 5: of Jesus Christ.

584
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 11: When you say she was giving testimony of the visitation

585
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 11: from angels and specifically the Angel Morone.

586
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: What did that mean to you?

587
00:32:53,240 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 5: When someone is getting such visitations from a only been,

588
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 5: it would mean that this person has very high spiritual standing,

589
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 5: someone who is very right righteous and is just okay

590
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 5: above spiritually above other people.

591
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: Did you hear anything else?

592
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 11: I thought you said something about a witness to Jesus

593
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 11: or Jesus Christ.

594
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: Yes, what does that mean?

595
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 5: So that would mean that you actually have a personal conversation,

596
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: physical conversation with Jesus Christ.

597
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 11: And what significance did that have to you?

598
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 5: That would be the highest spiritual experience than any human

599
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 5: being can have.

600
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: Nine eight joining us from EASTSIDEAHR News dot Com. The

601
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: fact that this woman would use the name of Christ,

602
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: and to the Mormons, I'm sure that they're furious she

603
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: has brought up the angel Moroneye as giving her instructions

604
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: to murder her children. And Tammy Dabell, I mean, there's

605
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: got to be some Mormons on that jury.

606
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 8: Oh, I'm sure there are, Nancy.

607
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: I bet they were spinning on their ears when she

608
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: brings out Moroneye.

609
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 8: And I think anybody that uses the name of Jesus

610
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 8: Christ to try to defend this type of activity would

611
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 8: have an issue with it, And it's interesting that witnesses

612
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 8: would say that if the plan that Chad and Laurie had,

613
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 8: the plan that they had saying that these people would

614
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 8: die by such and such a date, if it didn't happen,

615
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 8: then they would follow up with, well, it wasn't God's will. Instead,

616
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 8: we need to do this. The bar was constantly moving

617
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 8: and constantly changing until everybody in their way to be

618
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 8: eliminated and Chatham Morey to be together.

619
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: Doctor Michael Boden joining me, a former chief medical exam

620
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: in New York City, Doctor Boden, how many so called

621
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 3: religious deaths have you seen where people actually use religion,

622
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: use our Holy Father as their cover, using Christ like

623
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: this to cover up their murder.

624
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 9: My experience has been largely in New York and New

625
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 9: York City in particular, and that doesn't become an issue

626
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 9: very often. I can't remember, except where occasionally after somebody

627
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 9: has died, instead of reporting it, keeping a memorial around

628
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 9: the body at home with all kinds of different applications

629
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 9: of liquids to the body of the person the loved

630
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 9: one for religious reasons. But I haven't really come across

631
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 9: when religion is used as an excuse.

632
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: I have doctor Boden Sadly, Phil Water is former homicide

633
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: detective and now CEO Kindred Spirits Investigations and Security, joining

634
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 3: us out of Houston. Phil again, thank you for being

635
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: with us. I've seen a lot of parents who end

636
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 3: up murdering their children as some sort of bizarre exorcism

637
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: or some religious fasting or diet.

638
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: I've seen that a lot.

639
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: And parents claiming their children are demonic and then the

640
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: child ends up dead.

641
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 10: I don't know that I've seen that type of thing

642
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 10: in my career. I worked twenty three years in HBD Homicide,

643
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 10: retired from there, worked over four hundred homicides and work

644
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 10: a lot of child deaths and baby deaths that kind

645
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 10: of thing. There's only a couple that I and think

646
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 10: of that didn't really have a religious component to but

647
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 10: may have had an influence on it. And it's always

648
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 10: a question, you know this, but this case is this

649
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 10: is Jim Jones proportions in terms of the religious cult

650
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 10: foundation for this thing. And she and just as a

651
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 10: person who's conducted hundreds hundreds of interviews in watching somebody

652
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 10: like a Lorid da Bil in a trial and her

653
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 10: making notes and talking to the attorneys and that kind

654
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 10: of thing. To me, this is an indication that she

655
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 10: is wanting to continue to be in control of her

656
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 10: surroundings and her circumstance.

657
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: Well, you're so right.

658
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 3: And Nate Aiden, following up on what Phil Waters is

659
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 3: saying from her homicide detective, I want you to listen

660
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: to our cut two four seven. Chad Dabil, the so

661
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 3: called prophet had actually elevated Calm Valo to goddess status

662
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 3: and trying to convince Alex Conx to go kill people.

663
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 2: Listen to this powerful goddesses, we needed to be protected,

664
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: and you were selected to help.

665
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 6: Protect your sister, and you help Jerry.

666
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 2: In numerous relations as a defender. Yes, special.

667
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 8: Crew in the world connecting area, and as she grew

668
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 8: in hour.

669
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: You are right, they're going to.

670
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 3: Say to her doctor Dana Anderson forsic psychologist, what is

671
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 3: wrong with these people?

672
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: There?

673
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Charles, there you have Chad Dabel giving a so

674
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: called patriarchal blessing on Alex Cox Valow called mom's brother,

675
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 3: so we could go kill some more people on her behalf,

676
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: elevating her to goddess stance status and somehow making it

677
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 3: okay for Alice Cox to commit more murders.

678
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 7: Well, one of the things I wanted to say earlier

679
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 7: you were talking about these religious themes that people use

680
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 7: to make excuses for the behaviors. I wanted to say,

681
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 7: I do see that, and I specifically assessed for that.

682
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 7: And it's malingering, which is lying for secondary gain people

683
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 7: that are trying to say they have these grandiose religious delusions.

684
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 7: That's actually something as a forensic psychologist I test for

685
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 7: in a test of lingering psychosis, and I catch people

686
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 7: when they lie. And so in this case, obviously Lori

687
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 7: Valo was found to be incompetent at some point, so

688
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 7: there was a point in time where these delusions which

689
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 7: she was reporting were bought to be maybe a mental illness.

690
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 7: She's highly manipulative in deception.

691
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: Well, if you think she's crazy or she's having a delusion,

692
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: doctor Dana Anderson, I want everybody to hear our cut two.

693
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: Five five, Yeah, she's not crazy. Listen.

694
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 11: Did she ever talk about other plans? You know that

695
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 11: if the casting didn't work?

696
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 7: Did she talk about other ways to deal with Charles?

697
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 12: When we were at my house in March of twenty

698
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 12: nineteen and we had done the casting, she.

699
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: Was laughing in.

700
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 5: She said that, well, if it doesn't work, I can

701
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 5: always put some pills in his water or something, and

702
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 5: then she laughed it off.

703
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: And then when that didn't work, Charles Valo was shot dead.

704
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 2: Nate eight and what happens next.

705
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 8: We're gonna have more witnesses on the prosecution has a

706
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 8: list of ninety possible witnesses and the defense has publicly

707
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 8: said that they have very few, if any witnesses when

708
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 8: it's their turn. So zu Lemma pas Senas will continue

709
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 8: to testify about her workings with Lourie. We'll hear from detectives.

710
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 8: Lourie's the son's oldest son could possibly take the stand,

711
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 8: and this trial is expected to last three to four

712
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 8: more weeks.

713
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 3: I can't wait, Thanky Gray signing off, Goodbye sand