WEBVTT - From the Vault: Animals Throwing Stuff, Part 1 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:07.760 Hey a you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:09.240 My name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.200 And I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are bringing you 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.600 an episode from the vault. Rob and I are out 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.239 this week, so we've got some classic episodes for you, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.640 or at least classic from last year. This is Animals 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.600 Throwing Stuff, Part one, the first part of a series 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.599 we did about throwing behavior and non human animals. We 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.640 did eventually end up talking about the emergence of throwing 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.320 as a human behavior as well. This one originally aired 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.520 on January third, twenty twenty three. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:37.319 We hope you. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:49.280 Enjoy Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.400 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:54.880 name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.160 And I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're going to be 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:03.920 kicking off a series of episodes about examples of throwing 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.960 in non human animals. We may also talk about the 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.319 evolution of throwing in humans as well, but this is 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:16.680 a subject I recently became interested in, specifically because of 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.040 a paper that was published in November twenty twenty two. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.440 Some of you might have seen science headlines going around 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.920 about this. There was a publication in the Journal plus 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:32.319 one about octopuses throwing objects, or at least potentially throwing objects. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.520 Whether or not it should count as debatable, and we'll 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.160 talk about some of the arguments for and against. But 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:45.600 octopuses at least allegedly throwing objects, potentially deliberately, and potentially 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:51.200 deliberately aiming those objects at other octopuses, though of course, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.360 the exact nature of their motivations is somewhat mysterious. It's 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.440 hard to suss out exactly. And I thought it would 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.120 be good to to start off our series by looking 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.240 at this example that first got me interested in this, 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.639 and then maybe we can branch out to other examples 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.840 of throwing in the animal world in subsequent episodes. 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.120 Interesting, I just assumed that your interest in this topic 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.639 was because you had become a father and you were 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.919 already feeling the pull. You already were longing to throw 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.320 ball with your child, which is something that I felt 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.919 when I became a father. I was like, well, I've 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:31.240 got to get a ball, right, I've got to get 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.760 a mit. I have no other connection to baseball at all, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.840 or softball or any of these sports, no attachment to them. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.239 I don't play them or watch them. But there's something 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.600 about throwing that must be done with the child. 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.200 I do like throwing a ball. I think I'm more 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.000 into like a tennis ball in the hand than a baseball. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.600 But that's a dog thing, that's for dogs. I guess 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:54.040 that's true. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.840 Also, No, I'm not talking about with like the scoop, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.760 I mean the rollerball scoop. I mean tennis ball straight 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.640 in the hand. Okay, all right, but no, that's not 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.600 the reason. And if I were to go with the 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.120 motor activities I've been thinking of more since becoming a father, 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.400 would be the act of knocking things over after they've 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.519 been set up. I think that's an interesting impulse that 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:20.320 we could study. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:21.840 Oh yes, definitely. 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:26.280 But onto the octopus study. So this paper was by 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:31.280 Peter Godfrey Smith, David Shiel, Stephanie Chancellor, Stefan Linquist, and 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.200 Matthew Lawrence, and it was called in the Line of 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:39.360 Fire Debris Throwing by Wild Octopuses, published published in Plus one, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.040 twenty twenty two. And so first I'm going to talk 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.440 about what the authors report and argue in this paper here, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.080 and then we'll talk about some context as well as 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:55.280 some criticism or differences in interpretation. Now, for background on 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.320 this subject, I think we can safely say that not 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.520 a lot of animals throw things at all. Throwing is 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.680 a relatively unique behavior, and the authors of this study say, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.640 quote a throw can be distinguished from other phenomena by 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.000 the ballistic motion of a manipulable object or material, where 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:20.120 ballistic describes free motion and momentum. So when I think 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.320 of throwing, I think of taking a free external object 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.560 or material, so not part of your own body, and 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.280 projecting it through the environment toward a target. Throwing is 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.440 so unique that it has sometimes been characterized as exclusively 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.520 the domain of humans. But there are a number of 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.039 animal behaviors that I think should count as throwing. We'll 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.040 talk about them throughout the series. Some very clear examples 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.120 that I don't think anybody would really dispute, like the 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:54.719 throwing behaviors of primates like chimpanzees and capuchin monkeys. 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.160 Right right, Yeah, there are plenty of examples of this 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.760 occurring both in the wild and in captive. Not to 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.240 say they're not interested. We may come back to some 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.359 of them, but yeah, they're very well documented. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.400 Yeah, and also some very interesting ones in like elephants 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.800 and mongooses and birds and so forth. Yeah, Now, if 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:18.159 you were to expand the definition of throwing to include 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.440 the projection of parts of the animal's own body or 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.080 substances produced by the animal's own body, then the number 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.279 of examples really expands. Then you get all kinds of things, 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.560 Like you get spitting, which would include snakes. There's snakes 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.520 that project venom out of their mouths, out of their glands. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.560 You have, of course, camels famously spit. All kinds of 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.720 animals spit. And then you also have examples like spiders 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.760 such as New World tarantulas. These spiders famously kind of 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.080 kick or shoot a little fibers known as irticating hairs 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.719 off of their bodies, and these are a defense mechanism 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.640 because the hairs can cause severe irritation to the skin 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.440 and mucous membranes of vertebrate animals that might threaten the spiders. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.440 And you know, I've always thought of this in the 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.880 context of like tarantula itching powder, Like it's just an irritant, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.000 it's unpleasant, it gets on your skin, it causes itching, 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.040 makes you want to retreat. But apparently in some cases 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:22.840 of like the tarantulas, with more severe hairs. This can 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.800 even cause death in the cases of some small animals 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.480 when the hairs get in their mucous membranes. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.159 Tarantulas are fascinating. I'd be up for a return to 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:34.520 the world of tarantulas again. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.240 But there are other spider examples too. Some other spiders 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.359 are known to project or throw threads of silk produced 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.120 again by their own bodies at prey to capture them. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.760 But I think we probably don't want to count substances 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.719 produced by an animal's own body for throwing, because that 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.240 seems like a kind of that's a different class of 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.679 behavior than what we usually think about with throwing, because 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.800 when it comes out of the animal's own body, I 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.320 would think that usually tends to be an instinctual, defensive 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.600 or predation mechanism. That's something that's probably just a rote 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.680 behavioral program that exists. You know, it's evolutionarily coded into 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.600 the animal's nervous system, so they just kind of do 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:23.640 it automatically. Whereas the throwing of free external objects found 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.320 in the nearby environment, I would argue that indicates a 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:32.280 very different kind of underlying mentality, a much more interesting 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.559 and versatile type of tool use. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.000 Well. Of course, it's easy for us to say since 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.080 our bodies don't really produce weapons. It might be a 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.520 different scenario if human beings, say, produced and shed some 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.240 form of horn or antler, or I don't know, had 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.240 had some other you know, let your imagination go wild. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.600 But one might well imagine some sort of a humanoid 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.840 being that had some sort of evolved feature like this. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.560 That might blur the line. But I do agree, Yeah, certainly, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.640 with the human factor involved, humans are not really going 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.800 to do much with anything that their own body produces. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:14.640 They're going to have to turn to the things in 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:15.800 the environment around them. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.200 Yeah, it would be interesting if a human could like 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.400 cough up darts from their stomach on command. Now what now, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.640 I'm trying to think how to make that plausible. Okay, Now, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.520 imagine you've got an animal that has a sort of 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.360 gizzard and they keep gizzard stones down there, and when 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.680 they need a weapon, they just vomit up a gizzard 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.880 stone and then they can throw that there. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.280 You go, surely somebody's had done something like that. Would 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:39.920 that would be terrific. You have some sort of like 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.160 a kaiju bird and one of its attacks is vomiting 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.600 stones at you and these stones could perhaps you know, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.320 be used as some sort of a siege weapon. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.880 Okay, so that's the distinction between like an instinctual throwing 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.040 or projecting of part of your body or something that 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.000 comes out of your body versus throwing of things found 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.800 in the environment. Another distinction I would like to make 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:07.760 about throwing is the important difference between throwing away and 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:13.240 throwing at. For one example of this contained within one animal, 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.240 I think you could possibly make the argument that the 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.240 ant lion might exhibit both types of throwing, because it 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.319 certainly at least does one. So the ant lion, at 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.440 one stage in its life cycle, it lives down at 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.120 the bottom of a pit that has steep sloped sides 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.920 with the sides are lined with sediment of a certain 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.680 grain size, and a prey insect falls in it can't 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.120 climb back out, and then the ant lion kicks sediment 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.559 or sand up at the insect, and the insect falls 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.040 down into its jaws and it eats them. And then 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.200 after it's done, it is typically known to fling the 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.040 body out of the pit by a similar motion to 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.280 what it used to fling the sand up at the 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.240 insect falling in now, I think you could definitely make 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:06.000 the case that it shows throwing away behavior because it's 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:11.160 just rejecting the desiccated exoskeleton of the ant that it 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.679 has drained of delicious juices once it's done right. Yeah, absolutely, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:21.440 But it may also display throwing at behavior, arguably because 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.520 as the ant is falling down, it will kick sand 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.840 up at the ant, and you could argue about whether 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.079 that's actually at the ant or whether it's just kind 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.160 of generic sand throwing behavior that because the real purpose, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:36.960 I think is not for it to land on the ant, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.320 but to destabilize the walls of the pit and cause 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.160 them to avalanche downward, bringing the ant further toward the 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:44.720 bottom with the sand. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.840 Yeah. I believe we talked about the ant line a 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.079 bit in our episode on the Sarlac, comparing the sarlacs 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:56.319 imagined biology to the ant lion's very real biology, and yeah, 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:57.960 they're fascinating little creatures. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.680 But the authors of this paper all so mentioned in 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.880 the background how in some cases throwing is a kind 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.720 of tool use that also sort of contains information. Like 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.760 a projectile can be not only aggressive and violent, but 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.840 it can be a communicative social tool between animals within 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.000 a social species, and that brings us to the example 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.640 of the octopuses, because one thing it's really important to 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.880 realize about octopuses is that they are, for the most part, 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:33.240 not social. They are incredibly antisocial as far as animals go. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.960 With perhaps a few notable exceptions, octopuses generally do not 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.079 socialize with other octopuses. They don't flock together, they don't 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:48.120 form groups usually or have very complex social relationships. For 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:52.440 the most part, octopuses are solitary hunters, and when they 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:57.160 do encounter one another, they practice avoidance or sometimes outright violence. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.920 They will fight one another and sometimes even cannibal one another. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.040 Yeah, that seems to be the extent of octopus politics. 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:10.760 However, despite their usual antisocial nature, there is some previous 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.720 evidence that octopuses might be able to communicate with or 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.520 signal information to one another, and an example that the 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.680 author's pick here is one that has some of the 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.840 same authors as this study in question. It's by David Shield, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.480 Peter Godfrey Smith, and Matthew Lawrence, called Signal Use by 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:34.280 Octopuses in Agonistic Interactions, published in Current Biology in twenty sixteen, 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.000 and this study looked at the same species as our 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.719 main study is going to be looking at here one 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:45.200 called Octopus tetricus, and this species can change color pigment. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.920 It can change the color patterns on its skin in 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.520 a number of ways. And this report found a correlation 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:57.800 between color displays on this octopus's skin and intraspecific behaviors, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:03.320 behaviors showing interactions between members of this species. The authors write, quote, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.319 here we show by field observation that in a shallow 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.360 water octopus Octopus tetricus, a range of visible displays are 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:15.199 produced during agonistic interactions, and these displays correlate with the 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.560 outcome of those interactions. Interactions in which dark body color 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.120 by an approaching octopus was matched by similar color in 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:28.520 the reacting octopus were more likely to escalate to grappling darkness, 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.280 and an approaching octopus met by paler color in the 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.880 reacting octopus accompanied retreat of the paler octopus. So this 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.440 is interesting. It raises the possibility that even though these 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.920 octopuses are not very friendly with one another and they 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.000 don't really want to hang out and interact, they might 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.600 still be communicating. They might be using color displays to 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:54.000 at least communicate information about their intentions with one another, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.280 and that could be beneficial to both parties because it 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.760 could help them avoid unnecessary violent cons Like if you 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:05.400 can change your color patterns to signal like I mean business, 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.800 I'm not going to back down, or okay, okay, I'm 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.199 not going to fight like that can help you avoid 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:11.920 a fight that would have happened otherwise. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.679 Yes, yes, this is of course a topic that's come 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.840 up recently on the show. In a couple other episodes, 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.080 we talked about the Galapagos tortoise, about the showdowns between 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:27.200 these big males and how it is almost, if not exclusively, 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.200 non violent in that they just have these showdowns with 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.600 their neck who's the tallest, and whoever is the judge 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.120 would be the tallest wins, and there's no need for 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.960 actual violence to take place. It also reminds me of 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.640 the episode I did with Joe Berger while you were 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.840 out talking about goats and rams getting into conflict over 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.200 mineral resources, and part of the issue there it does 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:56.360 come down to how goats deal with this sort of 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.280 conflict between each other, how rams deal with this sort 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.040 of conflict with the each other. But then when you 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.080 have goats and rams, there can be kind of a 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.320 communication breakdown. It's really interesting. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.080 Yeah, well, I mean it makes you think about how 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:15.000 much apparent conflict and violence within the natural world actually 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.880 doesn't come to violence because animals are often looking for 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.160 a way to avoid a fight. They just want to 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.400 know who would win and like find a way to 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.640 sort it out without having to do the violence. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.680 Yeah. Even in a lot of human combat, whether you're 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:35.480 dealing with individual level or more complex scenarios involving civilizations 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.120 and so forth. You know, there's so many different ways. 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:40.960 There's a lot of posturing. But then there are also 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.880 the fights or battles one might get into with the 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.520 intention of being stopped by others before the battle can 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.040 take place. Like, there's so many different things to consider though. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:53.680 I also want to come back to this example I 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:58.640 mentioned about the changing color patterns on these octopuses. I 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.840 think you could also have non communicative interpretations of this 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:07.480 as well. That's possible, but it's one good interpretation of 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.600 that might be that these animals are communicating with each other, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.680 they're sharing information, even though they're not really a social species. Now, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.200 we also know that octopuses are able to manipulate objects 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.560 in their environments using the surprisingly deft touch of the 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.880 eight octopus arms, raising the specter always of possible tool 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.960 using intelligence and even maybe one day technological evolution in 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.640 the octopus. And we've seen many great examples of this. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.600 One that I always think of is in octopus nest 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.680 building behavior. Sometimes you'll find examples where an octopus will 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.440 be able to pull an object over the opening of 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.760 its den in order to essentially close the door, which 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.560 I love. But also this study mentions veined octopuses or 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:59.200 anti octopus marginatus, which they say, quote Carrie can carry 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.480 shelter in the form of nested coconut shell halves that 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.480 are then reassembled. You may have seen video of this. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.960 Yeah, this is this is remarkable footage, and I know 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.600 just the just look watching an octopus in the wild 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.919 or in captivity. It seems to have inspired many to 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.600 imagine what it would be like if they actually use 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.040 tools and weapons. I was trying to remember where I 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.119 had specifically seen an image of an octopus with like 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.760 a hatchet in one of its tentacles. I imagine this 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.439 was maybe an old Dungeons and Dragons illustration or something. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.359 But I did an image search and I found that 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.159 numerous people have have painted some sort of a scenario 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.160 in which an octopus is carrying a spear. I saw 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.520 one where there's like a spear wielding octopus battling a 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:48.119 samurai octopus. So there is something about the octopus arms 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.439 that we can't help but imagine them doing tully or 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.280 weapony things with them. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.399 Not sure exactly why, but that reminds me of the 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.440 doomba meme where people would just like tape a knife 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.800 to the top of their roomba. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:15.000 I don't know if I saw that one, but sounds dangerous. 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.359 Okay, Well, anyway, these two different threads we've been talking 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.639 about the use of materials or arguably tools from the 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.720 environment by octopuses and behavior that might constitute social signaling 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.080 between conspecifics. These two things come together in this twenty 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.919 twenty two study. So the animal in question in this 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:40.639 paper is the species Octopus tetricus, also known as the 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:46.280 gloomy octopus. Now why are they called the gloomy octopus? Well, 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.040 just look at their eyes. Some people think that these 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.879 animals have eyes that look perennially unhappy. I don't know 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.280 what I think about that. It's hard to it's hard 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.119 to read too much human emotion into octopus eyes. But 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.720 then again, I get to staring at this and I 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:04.879 don't know, maybe I do feel kind of the mood 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:05.960 coming down a little bit. 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.520 I don't know. Maybe I mean I get kind of 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.160 a calm vibe off of this particular octopus. It looks cozy. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.440 Well, they do like to be cozy. They like to 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.719 hide in their dens. So, the gloomy octopus is a 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.080 medium sized benthic octopus. Benthic meaning they live on the 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.120 seafloor and they occupy the waters around Australia and New Zealand. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.399 But the particular population of animals observed in this study 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.000 live in a special zone along the bottom of Jervis Bay, Australia, 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.840 which is the coast of New South Wales at south 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.280 of Sydney. And in this area along the bottom of 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.600 Jervis Bay, many individuals of the gloomy octopus live in 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:52.000 very close proximity to one another, high density, especially four octopuses, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.520 making dens sometimes just right smack next to one another. Now, 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.719 is this a change? And they're normally solitary anti so nature, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.239 it does not seem like that. There's no indication that 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.240 these animals like being near one another. Instead, it's a 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.040 case of a lot of octopuses trying to cram into 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.920 a spot that has both food abundance and excellent benthic 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.720 strata for making dens. So it's good real estate to 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.480 make homes in, and it's lots of great food, and 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.800 it's surrounded on all sides by terrible real estate, just 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:31.760 sort of featureless mudflats, which sort of prevents these octopuses 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.000 from spreading out. So for a human analogy, imagine a 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.920 kind of tiny island in the middle of the ocean 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.400 with tons of food on it, lots of great stuff there, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.080 but it's just swarming with antisocial introverts who don't want 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:44.960 to talk to each other. 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.639 I think I've had this experience on most road trips 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.960 I've taken. You know, you find that one exit that 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.199 has that one chain coffee store that you need and 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.920 can depend on. And yeah, an alien observing you might say, 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.199 look at all these people. They all love each Yes, 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.880 they love being around each other. Oh that's good. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.040 So these spots in Jervis Bay have been nicknamed things 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:15.119 like Octolantis or Octopolis. Just a lot of these anti 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:20.760 social non buddies squeezing into a relatively small area. Naturally 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.280 there's going to be some conflict here. The octopuses regularly 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.399 get in one another's space, and this leads to the 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:32.880 creatures poking and grappling, grabbing, generally harassing each other. Now, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.400 it was in studying this Jervis Bay population of Tetricus 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:42.159 that the authors first observed what they called a throwing behavior. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.720 And the team collected many hours of video footage from 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.320 emplaced cameras from a couple of different sessions. I think 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.240 there was some footage from twenty fifteen and from twenty sixteen, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.880 and they write, quote, here we provide the first report 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:01.959 for any octopus species of a behavior freaque at these aggregations. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:07.280 The throwing or projection of debris, both in social interactions 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:12.000 and in other contexts. Ballistic motion of manipulable objects is 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.600 possible through water, albeit against greater resistance than through air. 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:21.960 These throws by Octopus tetricus sometimes hit other octopuses. So 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.960 they are throwing debris, sometimes hitting other octopuses. And the 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.640 big question is are they doing it on purpose? Are 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.240 they targeting one another on purpose? And if they are, 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.400 is that a social signal of some kind? 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:36.920 Now? 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.160 I think it's important to first just describe exactly what's 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.399 going on here. When an octopus is said to quote, 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:48.280 throw something, Octopuses do not throw the way humans do 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.639 by building momentum with an arm motion and then releasing, 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.040 or at least not most of the time. The team 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.400 apparently documented one case of an octopus throwing what looked 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.360 to be a bivalve shell by holding it in its arm, 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.880 quickly straightening the arm, and then releasing the shell. Instead, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.440 what happens is most of the time the octopus would 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:12.320 throw by way of its siphon, and the siphon, also 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.679 called a funnel, is kind of a tube shaped organ 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:18.919 that octopuses used to swim. You can think of it 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.760 as an organic water jet. It's sort of a pump 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.119 that pumps water out the back and allows the octopus 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.600 to to by reaction, push its body forward. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:34.120 Interesting, so in these in these cases of an octopus throwing, 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:36.879 depending on what is being thrown, you could think of 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.600 it as being like they've loaded their their biocannon, their 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.280 their fluid based biocanon with like say, a piece of 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:45.919 shell and are firing it. Or it's just kind of 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:47.640 like loaded with debris. 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.440 Yet well sort of I mean that is good, I think, 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.119 except actually what the cannon is loaded with is just 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:56.120 water as usual. It's more like they've loaded a cannon 0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:59.080 and they have put the thing they want to throw 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.040 right in front of the cannon, so that when the 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:04.480 cannonball comes out, it hits the thing they want to throw, 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.560 the cannonball just being water and propels it toward the target. Again, 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.320 assuming that these are targeted throws. We don't know that 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.280 for sure, but going with that for a minute. So 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.080 it's a several step procedure. It goes like this. So 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:21.720