Speaker 1: Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
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Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts. Gas Lighting the trending word that's everywhere.
Speaker 1: What exactly is it? Psychologically manipulating someone into questioning what
Speaker 1: is actually true? You question your judgment on absolutely everything.
Speaker 1: My career started to stuffer as a result. Photos of
Speaker 1: her boyfriend with another woman were splashed across tabloids around
Speaker 1: the world, and he says, if you sold the fust together,
Speaker 1: you would say we're just friends, and you would be
Speaker 1: able to see what it's like. Apath the Crowns, Rebecca
Speaker 1: Humphreys reveals the damage after years of being gaslighting. When
Speaker 1: you confronted him, would happen? Dr Romney is breaking it
Speaker 1: all the way down. It's I'm going to dominate you.
Speaker 1: You're going to live in my reality. Stop being so sensitive.
Speaker 1: You're crazy. That just happened to me. The defice native
Speaker 1: guy to spot and stop gas lighting. The people get
Speaker 1: stuck on, oh your gas lighting because you told me
Speaker 1: that never happened. That's halfway the other half is when
Speaker 1: they dismantled you. Oh that part. I love your robe,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Stand game. I like the cover you got
Speaker 1: on ice blue, ice blue, ice blue. I like it. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what today this is a deep one. I
Speaker 1: have lots of questions. Yeah. So, millions saw this video
Speaker 1: of a famous British comedian passionately kissing a woman in
Speaker 1: an alley, but the story behind it is anything but romantic.
Speaker 1: Before landing a coveted role on the award winning series
Speaker 1: The Crown, actress Rebecca Humphreys thought she'd met her own
Speaker 1: Prince Charming, a gifted stand up comedian known for his
Speaker 1: high energy performed says. About five years into their relationship,
Speaker 1: he was cast on the UK's popular reality show Strictly
Speaker 1: Come Dancing. Rebecca's gut told her something was off about
Speaker 1: the new friendship he'd formed with his married dance partner.
Speaker 1: When she questioned him, he called her psycho, nuts and mental. Then,
Speaker 1: on her birthday, he told her he was going out
Speaker 1: for an innocent drink with his dance partner, and Rebecca's
Speaker 1: worst fears came true. Her boyfriend caught on camera kissing
Speaker 1: his dance partner before she knew it. The explosive video
Speaker 1: made headlines around the world. Psycho nuts mental all classic
Speaker 1: signs of gaslighting. Rebecca came in from London to share
Speaker 1: her warning for all. So tell us about your relationships
Speaker 1: so we can kind of get the picture. We were
Speaker 1: together for about five and a half years. What's so important,
Speaker 1: pippin forward to connect with. It's not that this relationship
Speaker 1: was toxic. This relationship had moments of pure romance and
Speaker 1: sensitivity and tenderness and intimacy. But there was a cycle
Speaker 1: that on occasion took a darker turn. There were arguments,
Speaker 1: there were real moments of explosiveness, but then that would
Speaker 1: be papered over with that tenderness and intimacy that would
Speaker 1: come back in. Yeah, and let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: The feeling is like someone pushes you out of a
Speaker 1: fifteen story building and then catches you a foot above
Speaker 1: the pavement. And when they catch you above that pavement,
Speaker 1: you go, thank you so much for catching me. I
Speaker 1: think it feels so good, for so good to be alive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very intoxically, it's so intoxicating, and then when that
Speaker 1: darkness comes again, you just ride it out because you're
Speaker 1: waiting for that next time that you get called it's
Speaker 1: like thrill seeking. Yeah, so what happened when you because
Speaker 1: I'm sure you tried to confront him about this, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So that was my birthday when those pictures were taken.
Speaker 1: But I'm there at home and I'm going I know
Speaker 1: that I sort of have a weird perception of what
Speaker 1: reality is. But I feel like it's not okay for
Speaker 1: him to be out with another woman. I feel like
Speaker 1: that is not all right. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: it is like I don't know if I'm being needy
Speaker 1: or you know, whatever it is about me. He's appeared
Speaker 1: on Dancing with the Stars over here, but in the
Speaker 1: UK it's strictly come dancing, and he's OK. He's done
Speaker 1: a great job for two of them. And so he
Speaker 1: comes through the door and I say, I feel as
Speaker 1: though there's something happening here, and I remember it so clearly.
Speaker 1: He stands there on the doorway and I'm on the
Speaker 1: bed and I'm crying, and he says, I just feel
Speaker 1: like if you saw the two of us together, you
Speaker 1: would see we're just friends, and you would be able
Speaker 1: to see what a psychopath you are. Wow, M that's
Speaker 1: gas lady, and the next day again a text message saying, Hi,
Speaker 1: I feel really bad about what happened last night. Maybe
Speaker 1: this weekend we can have a special day and I'll
Speaker 1: make up for it. And I go, okay, we're back
Speaker 1: on track. Everything's great. Cut to three days later and
Speaker 1: he just says, the tabloids have got pictures of me
Speaker 1: and the dancer kissing, and I am telling you, I
Speaker 1: will never ever forget the moment. I've described it as
Speaker 1: like a photocopier. This white light just started here and
Speaker 1: when all the way through my body when he told me,
Speaker 1: and I just went oh, and my face just lit
Speaker 1: up because I was right. And if I was right
Speaker 1: about that, what else have I been right about? Rebecca's
Speaker 1: ex apologize, saying, in light of today's newspaper, I would
Speaker 1: later off from my sincere apologies from my actions. This
Speaker 1: is no excuse, but it was one off drunken mistake,
Speaker 1: which I'm truly sorry for. There's no mention of me,
Speaker 1: there's no apology to me. I hadn't been apologized to
Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, they have it that make you feel.
Speaker 1: That wasn't the first time I'd heard the words one
Speaker 1: off drunken mistake. I tell you it happened many, many
Speaker 1: years before, when I had found messages between him and
Speaker 1: another woman, sexual explicit messages on Facebook. We shared a
Speaker 1: laptop and he obviously hadn't logged out. I was like,
Speaker 1: we're done. Him. A few days later, he's begging for
Speaker 1: me back, of course, and he says it was a
Speaker 1: one off drunken mistake and I'm truly sorry, got it.
Speaker 1: And so when this statement comes out almost five years later,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, do you have learned that being sorry
Speaker 1: for a one off drunken mistake works? And it's because
Speaker 1: I enabled it? Yeah, it's because the last time I
Speaker 1: chose to believe it. I say that gas lighting feels
Speaker 1: like tiny poison arrows and you don't notice them they're
Speaker 1: so light. But what they do is they inject poison
Speaker 1: into your body until poison is just pumping around your
Speaker 1: veins and you don't even know. Can you give us
Speaker 1: any other examples of how you were gas with stuff
Speaker 1: like you remembered it wrong, It didn't happen like that,
Speaker 1: It happened like this, Or I didn't say that thing
Speaker 1: that you're saying hurt you. I didn't say it. And
Speaker 1: then I repeated it as well, Okay, maybe I did,
Speaker 1: but I didn't say like that, not in that tone,
Speaker 1: you know, in that way. And it sounds really small,
Speaker 1: but it's incremental gaslighting is so insidious and exactly that
Speaker 1: it can go on for years and years and years
Speaker 1: without you even realize that that you're waking up in
Speaker 1: the morning with a part of you eroded away over time,
Speaker 1: and you're so used to being shut down that your
Speaker 1: instinct is to say that hurt me. But I've been
Speaker 1: told so many times, actually my brain kind of doesn't
Speaker 1: work that I'm just not gonna say it right. And
Speaker 1: before you know what's happening, you question your judgment on
Speaker 1: absolutely everything, until suddenly there you are in the grocery
Speaker 1: store one day, not even knowing what food tastes good
Speaker 1: in your own mouth, and you just don't know what
Speaker 1: to bar. You don't want to get things wrong, your
Speaker 1: question in your judgment at every turn. My career started
Speaker 1: to suffer as a result. An actress and a writer
Speaker 1: use my voice, well, you livest voice. I lost my voice.
Speaker 1: My voice has been dismissed for so long that I
Speaker 1: start to not even utilize it or use it. The
Speaker 1: question is when we're in relationships like this. What is
Speaker 1: it about us as women in particular, who are prepared
Speaker 1: to betray ourselves and our feelings in order to sustain
Speaker 1: these relationships that hurt us? Came then let's talk about
Speaker 1: death because that's a deep subject. Pop culture and the
Speaker 1: media told me that it's very important for me to
Speaker 1: have a relationship because I'm a woman, you know, straight up,
Speaker 1: all I know is that you have to have a man.
Speaker 1: I have to have a man otherwise what am I worth? Right?
Speaker 1: Because unfortunately that's what we're told. We're not worth anything
Speaker 1: unless we got a man. And that's the thing I
Speaker 1: think we as women, we're supposed to give everything that's valuable,
Speaker 1: our self dignity to make allowances to have this relationship
Speaker 1: that makes you worth something. I mean, a huge thing
Speaker 1: that I have learned as a result of this relationship
Speaker 1: is that I don't have to stand next to anybody
Speaker 1: to be worth something, right. I don't have to wait
Speaker 1: for anyone to make me un invisible. Right. I am
Speaker 1: in charge of my visibility. People need to know that
Speaker 1: you think your life will be worse by leaving, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But when I left that relationship, that's when my life started.
Speaker 1: It was like my sanity was handed to me in
Speaker 1: an instant moment. When he told me the tabloids have
Speaker 1: got pictures of me and the dancer kissing. It was
Speaker 1: like a cleanse. It felt like pure empowerment. Was it
Speaker 1: that moment that you decided to just break ties? It
Speaker 1: was that moment good for you? And I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm liberated. It's good for you. Thank you. So. One
Speaker 1: of the world's leading experts on gas lighting and an
Speaker 1: RTT favorite, Dr Romney, is here to help us. She
Speaker 1: also has an awesome new podcast navigating Narcissism, Dr Romney,
Speaker 1: How would you define gaslighting? Gas Lighting is a form
Speaker 1: of psychological manipulation, an emotional abuse in which a person's
Speaker 1: reality is doubted. It is done repeatedly with the purpose
Speaker 1: of psychologically dismany, telling them and leaving them feeling as
Speaker 1: though they are mentally unwell and fully dominated by the
Speaker 1: gas lighter. Wow, this is just that never happened. I
Speaker 1: think people get stuck on, oh, your gas lighting because
Speaker 1: you told me that never happened. That's halfway. The other
Speaker 1: half is when they dismantle you. It is more than
Speaker 1: being dismissive, because dismissive is sort of you know, you're crazy,
Speaker 1: But because gas lighting is a grooming process, it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen just one time. They got to figure out that
Speaker 1: they can't even do this to you. They're testing the waters.
Speaker 1: Oh she bit, I'm in now I can dominate because
Speaker 1: if somebody fights. It's the first time said no fool,
Speaker 1: I said that exactly, and then they said, no, you're
Speaker 1: did You're crazy. I'm like, they're good, right, They're not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to gaslight. You just got the hell
Speaker 1: out of Dosh. I love that, no fool. So gas
Speaker 1: lighting has a certain level of intention, intention to dominate, right,
Speaker 1: So nobody's walking under the same I'm going to gaslight her.
Speaker 1: It's I'm going to dominate you. You're going to live
Speaker 1: in my reality, you're going to live in my narrative.
Speaker 1: And actually it was my tight charge and it happened
Speaker 1: like this, and this is how it's going to happen
Speaker 1: in the future as well. Yeah, but it's more complicated
Speaker 1: than that, Rebecca, because a lot of people don't want
Speaker 1: the relationship to end. And that's sort of the ace
Speaker 1: in the whole that the gas lighter always has. So
Speaker 1: if you push a gas lighter and you push back
Speaker 1: on it too much. I guess you're not that committed
Speaker 1: or interested. I guess you really don't want this, and
Speaker 1: you're thinking, actually, there's a lot of good days in
Speaker 1: this relationship. That's why these toxic relationships work. If they
Speaker 1: were always terrible, everyone would run screaming out after the
Speaker 1: second day. But they're not always terrible. In fact, sometimes
Speaker 1: they're so blissful they feel extraordinary, and so when they're
Speaker 1: about to pull the plug, that's when people no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you know what, Maybe I did hear it wrong. Rooming
Speaker 1: as continues. It's a process of indoctrination until you really
Speaker 1: are a shell of yourself. There's no more you left.
Speaker 1: They took it off exactly when you are kept caged
Speaker 1: for such a long time and you're being tamed, Suddenly
Speaker 1: the accusations that you start throwing at someone feel erratic
Speaker 1: and they feel huge, and they feel psychotics. And then
Speaker 1: that person goes, you see was this what did I
Speaker 1: tell you? And you go, I see their point, and
Speaker 1: it becomes the self fulfilling prophecy, the psychosis. I mean,
Speaker 1: a huge tragedy of it is that the biggest betrayal
Speaker 1: is to yourself. Yeah, yeah, it's almost as though the
Speaker 1: victim's perspective, there's like a gradual lowering of expectations that
Speaker 1: then bare minimum in a relationship. How are you? Did
Speaker 1: you have a good day? You look nice? Those things
Speaker 1: become like the sun is shining on you. You think
Speaker 1: you're in something that's actually wonderful, healthy, you do for
Speaker 1: for that moment. That's a process called bread crumbing, where
Speaker 1: you get by unless and less. Where you used to
Speaker 1: get a whole slice of bread, now you're just getting
Speaker 1: a few crumbs, and you're calling it a meal. That's deep,
Speaker 1: that's good, it's good, and the nourishment that you feel
Speaker 1: from thinking I'm fed, and you hold on hold onto
Speaker 1: those little crumbs and you turn that into a relationship
Speaker 1: in your mind. So what does a gas lighter do
Speaker 1: once they realize like in rebecca situation, right, he got
Speaker 1: caught in the alley kissing someone. It was all over
Speaker 1: the tabloids. His narrative is blown. In most cases, the
Speaker 1: narrative doesn't get blown right. The person has to live
Speaker 1: in this horrible uncertainty. The world doesn't find out. People
Speaker 1: are still doubting you. So this was an extraordinary circumstance
Speaker 1: because now it's been blown up. What happens to the
Speaker 1: gas lighter. The aim means that they're going to be
Speaker 1: on the attack. They're going to try to make themselves
Speaker 1: look good. This isn't who I really am. You're judging
Speaker 1: me unfairly. They will immediately go into a defensive position.
Speaker 1: Gas lighters defend. Gas flighting is not lying. There's a difference. Okay.
Speaker 1: Everybody thinks, oh, you're just talking about lying. No, we're not,
Speaker 1: because you can bring a liar around if you bring evidence.
Speaker 1: So if you said I wasn't there, I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, and I'm like, Jadie, you were there,
Speaker 1: you were there, And then I said, Jada, here's a
Speaker 1: picture of you there, and you're like, you know what, Romany, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you the truth because I didn't want
Speaker 1: you to know you weren't invited. Okay. So a liar
Speaker 1: will cop to it when you give them the evidence.
Speaker 1: A gas slighter will double down on their deceit when
Speaker 1: you catch them, and they'll turn it into your crazy.
Speaker 1: So if you were gas lighting me, j do, you'd say, wow,
Speaker 1: So girlfriend's paranoid now too. You need to get some
Speaker 1: mental health help. Because only a paranoid fool would be
Speaker 1: showing me picture of where I'm at. So now it's
Speaker 1: become about me being crazy, rather than you lying about
Speaker 1: being in that place, and most people in my position,
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. But by now we've
Speaker 1: moved off the story of you having been at that
Speaker 1: point that's gas lighting. Okay, it's so unbelievably validating to
Speaker 1: hear it put in those like I've been that like.
Speaker 1: It just made me think about when everything came out
Speaker 1: in the papers. Well, he was my ex boyfriend at
Speaker 1: that point and either a stand up comedy tool and
Speaker 1: said on the tool I'm not a gas lighter. I'm
Speaker 1: just a bad boyfriend. It's like and see that right,
Speaker 1: there is a gas like. It's a game of narrative control.
Speaker 1: Because we get so lost in our narratives for what
Speaker 1: we want a relationship to be, we're more vulnerable to
Speaker 1: the gas slider's tactics. I feel like in order to
Speaker 1: be in a relationship, you have to have some idea
Speaker 1: of who you are yourself. If I had my way,
Speaker 1: I would take every woman on the planet and send
Speaker 1: her to sort of a place where she's taken care
Speaker 1: of but has to be alone six to eight hours
Speaker 1: a day alone because what we do is we fetishize relationship.
Speaker 1: We fetish right, That's what we do, and people actually
Speaker 1: feel shame when they're spending time alone. Think of how
Speaker 1: many women are reluctant to even go out and have
Speaker 1: a meal by themselves because it looks bad when people
Speaker 1: are in their post gas lighting, post narcissistic phase. I
Speaker 1: prescribe a twelve month detox. Absolutely no relationships, no sex,
Speaker 1: get a vibrator, call it a day. But you are
Speaker 1: not touching anyone. You need to find you. You need
Speaker 1: to figure out what kind of pizza you like. You
Speaker 1: need to figure out what music you really do like.
Speaker 1: You need to figure out what temperature you want that
Speaker 1: thermost susceptible. Dr Romney? What are more examples of gas lighting?
Speaker 1: Stop being so sensitive. I've just told you your emotion
Speaker 1: is invalid, right, and then I'll take that one step.
Speaker 1: Stop being so sensitive. You're crazy. So any reaction I
Speaker 1: have is showing that I'm emotional, dramatic sensitive. I got
Speaker 1: to bring that down because you're believing their characterization. And
Speaker 1: now you don't ever allow yourself to voice an emotion
Speaker 1: again because anytime I do, I'm being sensitive. There's something
Speaker 1: wrong with me. So people hold themselves back. If you
Speaker 1: must be paranoid, Are you sure you're not having memory problems,
Speaker 1: Maybe you need to go see the doctor. You're on
Speaker 1: your period, your perimenopausal. You pick a hormonal time in
Speaker 1: a woman's life and it's it's in the open season.
Speaker 1: Another thing, can't you take a joke? Oh, that was
Speaker 1: a huge, huge one for me, that just happened to me.
Speaker 1: So all of these things are meant to say you're
Speaker 1: not allowed to have an emotion. Your feelings are not valid,
Speaker 1: there is something wrong with you. Gas Sighters, at the
Speaker 1: core of it, are deeply insecure. No one's on a
Speaker 1: power trip unless they feel this big inside. They feel small,
Speaker 1: and so they make everyone else be as small as
Speaker 1: And they are not necessarily aware all the time that
Speaker 1: they're doing it, not at all. There's no awareness, and
Speaker 1: they won't go to therapy, so they're not showing up
Speaker 1: for help because they don't think they're doing anything wrong.
Speaker 1: Does a gaslighter know that they're gaslighting? Here's the problem
Speaker 1: with gaslighters. They're not in touch with their why they're
Speaker 1: uncomfortable when they're not in the dominant position, So they're
Speaker 1: going to use whatever tools are at their disposal to
Speaker 1: maintain that dominant position, including the gas lighting. I'm going
Speaker 1: to take you down. I'm going to bring you down,
Speaker 1: and once I test the waters and I realize you're
Speaker 1: not leaving, I got you right, Rebecca. If you had
Speaker 1: left that relationship from the jump, there would have been over.
Speaker 1: That's why my eminent advice to everyone who's how do
Speaker 1: I avoid this? Get out early, early, early, early. So
Speaker 1: how is a gaslighter created? In the vast majority of cases,
Speaker 1: gas lighters are narcissistic, that's but for some folks, the
Speaker 1: gaslighting is something they watched happen in their family. They
Speaker 1: were regularly gaslighted by a parent, so it almost felt
Speaker 1: like that was a fair way of communicating. But people
Speaker 1: learn it, especially if they saw the parents doing it
Speaker 1: with each other or step parents. Remember you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're arguing, so I'm gonna deny it because that's how
Speaker 1: it was always done in my house. I never said that.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Okay, So Dr Rominey helped us
Speaker 1: put together some scenarios to show just how easily gaslighting
Speaker 1: can happen. You were supposed to pick me up from
Speaker 1: work today. Did you forget um, you didn't ask me
Speaker 1: to pick you up? Yeah, I did, remember. I waited
Speaker 1: for like an hour and you didn't pick up your phone. No,
Speaker 1: you're confused. I recall you telling me that you're catching
Speaker 1: a round home your co worker. No, I sent you
Speaker 1: a text this morning as a reminder. You're wrong. I
Speaker 1: never got a text. There's no texting hand look book
Speaker 1: it says it was delivered. There's no text. Okay, so
Speaker 1: that pushing away of evidence. See she had the text
Speaker 1: showing I had set you the text and no evidence. No,
Speaker 1: thank you. Great. So first I'm a bad boyfriend for
Speaker 1: not picking you up, and now you're accusing me of
Speaker 1: lying this. This is why we always argue you're crazy,
Speaker 1: all these little interactions like I'm sick and tired of
Speaker 1: your accusations and trust issues. Okay, I'm sorry, You're right.
Speaker 1: I am probably just being dramatic and I asked you
Speaker 1: to do too much. I am a great boyfriend, and
Speaker 1: I'm sick and tired of being treated like this. Do
Speaker 1: you want a drum queen? And we cannot continue like this?
Speaker 1: Do you understand? Oh? Do you see what she was doing.
Speaker 1: She was almost getting ahead of him. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: remember things. I don't want to be dramatic. What happens
Speaker 1: if you stay in a gas lighting relationship long enough
Speaker 1: you start doing their dirty work for that you've internalized
Speaker 1: their language. Over time, that becomes yourself talk, always anticipating
Speaker 1: being a failure correct, and also the I'm sorry when
Speaker 1: you come with a problem suddenly before you know what's happening.
Speaker 1: You all want apologizing over time in a relationship like that,
Speaker 1: someone like her, we'll stop speaking of because you can
Speaker 1: already anticipate the argument. Wow, so gas lighting can happen
Speaker 1: in all kinds of relationships. Watch this what we haven't
Speaker 1: I thought we could have passed the salad? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Jazz, you know those art director jobs
Speaker 1: we apply for forever ago? Really just emailed me. I
Speaker 1: got an interview. Good for you. I haven't heard anything.
Speaker 1: Are you ready for a job at this level? Wait?
Speaker 1: I thought you said when I applied I could be
Speaker 1: great at this I've been wanting this for a while now,
Speaker 1: and you don't think I'm ready. It's not that, it's
Speaker 1: just that normally this kind of job requires people to
Speaker 1: have a really clear vision. I think I'm ready. That's
Speaker 1: a gaslight, because you are ready your your reality is like,
Speaker 1: I've got the experience, I know what I'm doing. I've
Speaker 1: even been offered an interview. I feel confident that I
Speaker 1: could do this. You know what, forget I even said anything.
Speaker 1: Your work is great. You belong on a billboard in
Speaker 1: Times Square or the covered Vogue. You can't be a
Speaker 1: little supportive, and you can't take a little joke. Do
Speaker 1: you want me to be the kind of friend who
Speaker 1: only tells you what you want to hear. You're saying
Speaker 1: that you're ready for this, right, so you must be.
Speaker 1: I was really excited. I've been wanting this job for
Speaker 1: so long. Now I'm second guessing at I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: not even going to the interview. So, Dr Romaney, what
Speaker 1: happened there? Part of gas lighting is that they consistently
Speaker 1: doubt your capacity to do something. This job is too
Speaker 1: big for you, keeping you small, And a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't recognize that somebody undercutting your abilities and telling
Speaker 1: you you're not ready when you inherently feel you are,
Speaker 1: because most of us undervalue ourselves. But when someone's trying
Speaker 1: to hold you back, can't be happy for you and
Speaker 1: then at the very end you belong on a on
Speaker 1: a billboard entire square. So then they do this sort
Speaker 1: of shaming. It's a shaming and humiliating and you wouldn't
Speaker 1: expect that kind of behavior or response from somebody that
Speaker 1: supposed to love you. And that's why. Then what does
Speaker 1: the person do? They're like they must be right, instead
Speaker 1: of who the hell are you to tell me? I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing. That's not what most people
Speaker 1: are going to say. They're say they're trying to protect me.
Speaker 1: In my instance, I would be leaving the house for
Speaker 1: auditions and as I left, badly looked up from whatever
Speaker 1: the paper and good luck. You probably won't get it,
Speaker 1: but do your best, you know, just be that's supapacity.
Speaker 1: Yeah every time, Yeah a long time. Yeah. Wow. This
Speaker 1: next scenario speaks on that if you have a hard
Speaker 1: time speaking up for what you deserve, watch this. Hi, Paul,
Speaker 1: how are you? Hey? Rachel? And I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: be here. So Paul, I have to say, I am
Speaker 1: so happy to hear that you are taking on the
Speaker 1: Simmons account. It's a brand new project and there's just
Speaker 1: a lot going into it, and we think you're the
Speaker 1: right person. Thanks Rachel. I'm really flattered that you all
Speaker 1: picked me. I really love working here and I'm definitely
Speaker 1: up for the task. But I did want to ask,
Speaker 1: with all this added responsibility, can I be compensated for
Speaker 1: the extra workload? Wow, Paul, I'm a little surprised that's
Speaker 1: your first question. I just thought that I might at
Speaker 1: least be able to renegotiate my radar get paid for overtime.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, it is a lot of work. You're
Speaker 1: twisting my words. I thought this is what you love doing.
Speaker 1: So you're saying you don't like this job. It sounds
Speaker 1: like you're just not really happy here. Is this not
Speaker 1: working for you? Another thing that's gas lighting that people
Speaker 1: don't even know is something called goaling back when a
Speaker 1: person makes a very reasonable ask paying me more to
Speaker 1: do more work, and then you're met with we're doubting
Speaker 1: your commitment to the job. There's other people who will
Speaker 1: take the job. Maybe we're not interested in you anymore.
Speaker 1: Know that that that's not it. I'm happy here. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of other candidates that are willing to
Speaker 1: take on this job at their current salary. It just
Speaker 1: seems like you're not interested. So I guess I don't
Speaker 1: really need to talk to my boss about it. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's okay. I'll do whatever it takes at my same range. Okay,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I know you can do it.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Break that down again, that piece
Speaker 1: of the gas lighting of pulling back. We don't need
Speaker 1: you anymore. He wants to keep his job. No no, no, no, no, no, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll pull back now. This gets even more problematic when
Speaker 1: it's people who already don't feel their power in the world.
Speaker 1: Whom are people of color, people of lower education or
Speaker 1: economic status. They already don't want to ask for a
Speaker 1: raison or maybe I'm lucky enough to have right, which
Speaker 1: is a self gas light. You know, they're lucky to
Speaker 1: have you if you're doing your job well. Once you
Speaker 1: make a need known that that need is shut down
Speaker 1: and you are viewed as sort of bad or asking
Speaker 1: too much, And if that happens enough, that voice gets
Speaker 1: stolen and they get what they want. Power, control, dominance, geez, okay.
Speaker 1: So joining the table is Favor Campbell. For years after
Speaker 1: her divorce, Favor was convinced she was insecure, jealous, and
Speaker 1: overly dramatic. She questioned herself with her sanity and says,
Speaker 1: your advice, dr Yes, help heal, Come on out here,
Speaker 1: favor favor. I like that name. How are you like tears?
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I made a difference. I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: by thinking you because it really truly did help me
Speaker 1: to understand and to know it wasn't me. When you're
Speaker 1: in it, you don't know right, You have no idea.
Speaker 1: I was married for sixteen years. It wasn't all the
Speaker 1: way bad. There was plenty of good moments, which makes
Speaker 1: you question the gaslighting. But the last few years of
Speaker 1: our marriage, every small argument was turning into a big argument,
Speaker 1: and we were just not meeting each other and like
Speaker 1: it was just off. So I asked the question that
Speaker 1: I felt like I never had to ask my husband.
Speaker 1: I asked him if somebody else had his attention. I
Speaker 1: didn't think he necessarily, you know, was sleeping with somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, But he confirmed that, and I asked him
Speaker 1: who it was. He stonewall me and would not tell me,
Speaker 1: and in fact turned it around on me and said,
Speaker 1: you know, if you find out who this is, you
Speaker 1: will blow this out of proportion. And it's one of
Speaker 1: those situations where you start to doubt yourself because you're wondering,
Speaker 1: am I wrong for asking? He said, you're ignoring all
Speaker 1: the other things on how we got here. Now you're
Speaker 1: just focused on that that situation. How do I not
Speaker 1: focus on it? He's like, if you blow it out
Speaker 1: of proportion, it could just be really bad. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Like what is going on? My
Speaker 1: daughter and I were going out to dinner, and um,
Speaker 1: she's all, yeah, when I saw Dad with so and
Speaker 1: so at church, it was like all the pieces floated together.
Speaker 1: That makes sense that it's her. So this has been
Speaker 1: the person the whole time, This person who you worked
Speaker 1: with for like ten plus years, this person who babysat
Speaker 1: my daughter, this person who I've been to her house.
Speaker 1: When I found out that it was her, it was
Speaker 1: like I was wrong finding out that it was her right,
Speaker 1: you know, Like and I would think to myself, what
Speaker 1: are you mad at me for? I'm the one that's
Speaker 1: like blowing this out of proportion? You know, we're trying
Speaker 1: to make sense of like, Okay, am I overreacting? What?
Speaker 1: You know? Like all that's going through your head and
Speaker 1: you just cannot make sense of it, and to this
Speaker 1: day he's married to that person. But of course I
Speaker 1: was imagining and it wasn't that serious on all of
Speaker 1: those things. Right, First, he tried to make you feel
Speaker 1: like you didn't have a right to know that. That
Speaker 1: was the big way. He turned the tables. That's what
Speaker 1: that's what you was saying. Gaslighters, dude, and that's it.
Speaker 1: And then all this and you're you're going to blow
Speaker 1: this out of proportion is another gaslight movie, and you're
Speaker 1: overly dramatic again the gas like denying, yea even stonewalling.
Speaker 1: Stonewalling is a form of gas lighting, right, and then
Speaker 1: disproportionate reaction. There's something wrong with her. But even earlier
Speaker 1: on the gaslighting things came out our first date, right,
Speaker 1: he picks me up and there's two other girls in
Speaker 1: the car, So at first I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's our first date, and he said he was giving
Speaker 1: them a ride home. So I was like, one of
Speaker 1: the girls in the car, she likes you, but I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna make a big deal about it because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be that girlfriend, right I could you not?
Speaker 1: He kept constantly saying, no, no, no, she doesn't like me. No,
Speaker 1: she doesn't like me. We ran across her later and
Speaker 1: she ended up like having a crush on him. It
Speaker 1: took three almost four years of being married to where
Speaker 1: one day he was just like, yeah, she was being
Speaker 1: flirty with me, and for three or four years I'm thinking, like,
Speaker 1: I saw it, and you deny it. Why was you?
Speaker 1: And kind of laughed it off. Here's what's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that girlfriend. Yeah there was
Speaker 1: something happened that you were not comfortable with with that
Speaker 1: that other woman. When we say I don't want to
Speaker 1: be that person, I don't want to be a drama.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be high maintenance, that's all needy.
Speaker 1: We've already internalized this energy of my feelings. My needs
Speaker 1: have no place in the don't it's all about him? Yea, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that happened so often. One of the other components with
Speaker 1: him with the gas flighting was the facade. I mean
Speaker 1: he could put on for people, Oh absolutely, and then
Speaker 1: at home you're a completely different and then you go
Speaker 1: home with them and they go, that's not the real meat.
Speaker 1: You know, the real meat that means your ego, because
Speaker 1: you're like, this person wants to share their actual cells
Speaker 1: with me and that's intoxicating. But what it is actually
Speaker 1: happening is that showing you there are two different people,
Speaker 1: and before you know what's happening, you're like, I feel
Speaker 1: special because I'm allowed to see this person exactly how
Speaker 1: they are. With the doctor Romany say that you found
Speaker 1: helpful everything, every video, every you know' like a groupie
Speaker 1: like I would pull up her videos. I would go
Speaker 1: back and listen to certain things that I knew were
Speaker 1: very characteristic of him as I uncovered that he was
Speaker 1: narcissistic in the gas flighting and it just brought peace
Speaker 1: because it helped me to say, okay, favor, you're not crazy.
Speaker 1: And if you have even one person in your life
Speaker 1: that's your anti gas lighter who says I saw that
Speaker 1: you are not crazy, that is one of the most
Speaker 1: curative tools we could possibly have. Yeah, well, thank you, ladies.
Speaker 1: This was a powerful, powerful table. Dr Romney's podcast, Navigating
Speaker 1: Narcissism is available wherever you get your podcasts. This fan fantastic.
Speaker 1: I'd like this new donut glaze. Now, oh that's pretty right,
Speaker 1: it's donut glaze. I'm kind of it. I cut my nails.
Speaker 1: I get to that point where they get to a
Speaker 1: length and then I'm like, you'd be doing a lot more.
Speaker 1: To join the red table Talk family and become a
Speaker 1: part of the conversation, follow us Facebook dot com slash
Speaker 1: red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio,
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