WEBVTT - Pete Wentz 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.240 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.960 My guest today is musician, entrepreneur member of fall Off 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.280 Boy Pete Wets. What's up? Good to be? Okay? So 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.479 you got the Stadium tour with Green Day and weez Or? 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:29.080 How did that come together? Well? So we've always talked about, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.080 you know, like I guess everyone has, whatever your ambition is, 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.800 you always think about, you know, the the office above 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.440 you or whatever. So we always talked about how do 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.440 you do as stadium tour? And we played uh, Wrigley 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.800 last year, which is our hometown UM, and we've always 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.720 talked about kind of trying to do like a Monsters 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.440 of Rock thing, and I think green Day had talked 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.199 about it as well. So we you know, we're all 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.720 on the same management company. So I think that's what 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.360 really UM eliminates. Maybe some of the red tape makes 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.320 it like more feesa bol to do you know, there's 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.240 a lot of like managing of egos and man, you know, 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.480 I mean it's just like it's a lot kind of 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:10.880 with one band is a lot, do you know, with 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.080 three bands a whole lot? You played Wrigley, How did 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.880 you do it? Wrigley. It was good. It was great. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.520 I mean it was our hometowns. I mean, did you 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.480 go clean at Wrigley? We did? Yeah, I mean it too. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.480 So whatever everything there's different configurations for everything, but yes, 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:32.080 we went clean. So what configuration did you have? I 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.440 think that we did over thirty And I'm guessing, like 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.600 there's probably a way that you can do a configuration 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:42.640 where you put people behind you, you know what I mean, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.600 Like I guess you're going to like the full Beatles, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.960 I mean configuring Chase Stadium configuration. But we didn't have 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.000 people behind us, but yeah, we did. It was there's 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:57.120 something special about Chicago because Chance the Rapper played a 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.200 stadium in Chicago fairly well from the Dead. You know, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.440 Detroit always talks about it's fan base. Is it a 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.480 very active fan base or it's just that's where you're from. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.760 It's an active fan base. It is where we're from. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.399 But I think that and and and Chances the one 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.919 that's a little is different on here. But people play, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.800 you know, whether it's Eddie Vetter or whoever play. You know, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.920 people have a special connection with I think Grigley Field 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.720 people have a special connection with Fenway there's these places 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:31.240 where people it's bigger than the city. It's bigger people 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.080 can sell out Hollywood Bowl and not sell out Irvine 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.360 down the street totally. And so I think people go 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.720 there because there's a you know, we made a weekend 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.280 of it. We did a pop up experience there also, 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.560 which is always experience. So when we did our album, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.320 Mania always envisioned it as you know, the idea of 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.320 having something tangible, like, I think we live in this 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.560 world where it's all filled with like this that kind 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.280 of non tangible things, you know, like likes and things 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.440 like that, and they all go away, disappear in twenty 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.040 four hours away ever, and I think, uh, it's counterintuitive, 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.560 but I think it's interesting to do something that people 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.799 can hold onto and experience and walk into ensure. Um, 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:10.919 you can't take pictures of it, but I think it 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.400 means more to actually be there. So we we created 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.960 a space that was like every song, every song had 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.480 a room in the space, and you walked in and 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.760 it was like what the album was, but like a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.000 physical version of it. How big was it it was 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.240 in So we found a building that they were going 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.720 to tear down, so it was big. It was massive, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.520 but they were like, you can do whatever you want 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.960 to because we're gonna just turn it down afterwards. Um, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.560 So we built walls and kind of created a place. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.520 But it was it's interesting because it was all it 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.960 became event but you know, like it was one of 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.120 those things that's in between a bunch of different worlds 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:49.920 or a bunch of different people's um specialties. So there's 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.960 a lot of things that we would I probably would 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:53.640 do differently if I did it again, And there's a 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:55.280 part of me that thinks like I would just never 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.000 do it again because it was just a bigger undertaking 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:02.920 than we expected. Like we were literally gluing things as 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.480 people were waiting in line at it, you know. So okay, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.520 you're talking about it is physical. Did people pay to 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.560 get in? Yeah, but you could also win you could 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.600 you could you could win tickets people paid to get in, 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.080 And then I think there was like a package for 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.240 the show where like you was included. How far was 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.240 it from Wrigley It was Uh. I would say it 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.520 was like ten minutes, twelve minutes, but it was like 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.880 Chicago minutes, not those minutes, you know what I mean. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:34.560 So it was like funny because you know, people are 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.480 expected on time in New York and you think how 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.880 dense it is. Where's in l A, you know, because 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.279 the traffic you never know. Yeah, I'm I'm how late 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.560 I was to this podcast? Is how late I am 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.839 to literally everything in my life, which is unfortunate, except 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:53.159 I'm not late to my just minutes people listening and 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.159 what's about what I am? And I don't factor in. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.680 So I factor in like, okay, five minutes shower, you 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.680 know whatever, But I don't factor in those in between 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.440 minutes like where you're toweling off or you're like looking 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.400 for your keys. Those are these in between minutes that 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.800 really add up, and those become the fifteen minutes for 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.640 me every single time. Well, the only thing is certain 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.960 people have a thing where they're always on time, and 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.760 it could be the most powerful person because I hate 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.400 when I'm on time and I'm the greeting committee because 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.280 like you know, if the parties at seven, you can't 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.479 get there at seven, or you know, there's a dinner 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.960 and I get there and I'm waiting and I gotta talk. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.200 But then there's some really heavy players get on time. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.960 I feel really shitty if you're late, totally and I 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.320 think that it's it's like to me. Uh. I remember 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.200 being in a meeting. I was in a meeting. There 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.000 was like a pitch for a movie or something like that. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.440 I can't remember. This was like years ago. And I 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.360 looked over and there was like, you know, like a 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.880 box of like the spread you guys got, but like 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.520 it was like coke and sprite and whatever. And then 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.279 there was one tab uh for people who don't know, 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.479 like tab the Cola or whatever, and that was the 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.480 original diet drink from Coca Cola. Totally. And this I'm 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.680 talking this is like ten years ago. This wasn't big, 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.320 Like these things had to be out of Prince in 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.960 the eighties or whatever. And I was like, that's so odd, 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.000 like they would have one and we're in the meeting. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.479 Uh in the billionaire in the meeting goes over and 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.040 get to the tab and I was like, got it. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.039 So if you're a billionaire, you can get a tab 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.719 in the meeting. I hate to talk this way, but 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:20.680 you know what it's like when you fly on the 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.000 private jet and you didn't book it totally. There's certain 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:29.279 seats if you can no, you can't exactly. Yeah, just 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.719 thrilled that you're on Okay, what would you do differently 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.720 if you did the installation again? Um, I would allow 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.840 more time for the build out. I would. I think 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:42.760 that this is one of those things where you can't 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.800 cut corners. I think, notoriously in the music business, people 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.120 really people either under vastly underspend or vastly overspend. And 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.599 I think in this case you should lean air on 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.520 overspending because I think people having the experience are going 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.440 to come out and they talk about it, and they'll 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.560 talk about how, oh like it looked like it was 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.120 this but it was actually made out of cardboard and 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:03.920 was super cheap and was falling apart, or they walk 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:05.480 out and they're like, oh my god, that was the 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.720 best thing I've ever experienced. And there's you can't really 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.880 like put a figure on people walking out and having 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:13.760 that experience. It's hard to like sit there and like 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.120 say that in a marketing meeting or you know, like 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:17.760 have a pie chart and like be like, well, this 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.280 amount of people are going to say this about it 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.240 because it's a real feeling. It's like authentic, you know. Um, 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.240 So I think I would air on spending more. And 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.360 I think that I would uh, And I don't know 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.080 that we had any um. I can't remember if we 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.000 had any ad space or any like it was put 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.000 on by anybody or something like that it might have been. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.640 I would have none of that. I would have no signage. Okay, 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:43.800 what's your general philosophy on sponsorship. I think sponsorship can 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.080 be great when someone gives you the money and says, listen, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.640 we have no idea what to do with this. We 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.680 trust your vision, we trust your brand, we trust what 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.440 you're going to do with this, and that's why we're 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.920 coming to you. I think that is great. I think 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.120 when you get into the like and we need need 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.560 you to like meet like seven people and we need 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.880 you to like change this messaging and like that lyric 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.240 doesn't work for us, it's not worth it to me 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.360 because then at that point like jeopardizes and changes your art. 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.480 It changes what your vision was going to be for it, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.960 you know what I mean. So, like, have you worked 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.760 with brands? Yeah, for sure, never on like ah, you know, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.440 shake it like a polaroid picture level, you know what 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.680 I mean. But like, but we've had tour sponsors. This 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.840 tour has a Harley Davidson sponsor and I think that, like, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.720 especially when the brand makes sense with you. Like to me, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.920 I'm always like, kids are smart, you know. I mean 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.880 kids can smart can spot when somebody's like doing something 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.480 that doesn't really fit in with what they normally do, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.040 you know what I mean? And so I think if 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.160 you do something, if if there's things that I'm like, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.720 I love this, like, uh, let me think um, Like 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.360 I love salt and straw the ice cream. I've been 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.040 trying to do something with that forever, you know, and 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.560 I haven't been able to do something with them, but 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.240 I like it, so it would make sense. So it's 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.520 like whatever you do would would actually be like in 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:00.000 line with it. And I think it's when you step 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.200 out of line is when people are like, oh, that 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.680 feels a little weird or it feels like you know, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.080 and I okay. But it's well known if you do anything, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.760 you're getting money, whether you're putting it back into the show, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.959 are you putting in your pocket. Do you think that 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.839 has any negative effect credibility wise on your fans. I 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.920 don't think that it does anymore. I think that this 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.559 generation has grown up with seeing people like really shill 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.840 and I think that the difference is uh is knowing 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.520 that you like, you know, like they saw us and 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.920 we would have like cell phones and our videos and 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:35.840 stuff like that. And I'm like, this literally is to 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.199 pay for the video. Like we're not walking away. We're 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.880 still losing money making this video, you know what I mean? 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.920 And and I think we we as a man, and 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:48.280 I think other artists kind of like educated that you know. Um, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.080 I think that there's a difference between like doing a 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.360 commercial for something that you don't believe in and and 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.600 taking money that is gonna enhance your art, make anything. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.880 Let's go to the led Zeppelin example, when they launched 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.440 this new Cadillac for ten million dollars? Would you do anything? 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.199 Would say? Okay, that's what I mean. It's almost like 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.520 an indecent proposal. Would you do anything for ten million dollars? 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.480 Or at some point your your credibility says no, yeah, 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.600 absolutely no, No, I don't think you can do anything 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.120 for ten Okay, Let's switch it to politics, whatever side. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.800 Would you go on the record when it comes to 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.760 candidates or political issues? Would I go on the record? Um? Sure, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.520 I think that this we're in a time where you 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.520 should step out and not necessarily step out, but you 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.120 should be okay with who you are and authentic with 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.400 who you are. The funniest thing to me speaking of 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.040 that is like the other day I saw that, like, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.200 you know, Vince Vaughn is all over the place, and 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.520 it was like, you know, people freaking out that he'd 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.520 like met Trump and you know, and I'm like, I 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.080 think this guy's like a pretty known libertarian for the 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.440 past like twenty or thirty years, you know what I mean. Like, 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.880 it doesn't it shouldn't be shocking, you know what I mean. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.920 I think that when people don't know and then they 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.240 see you're doing something and they're like, oh, that doesn't 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.440 stand in line with like what that guy has been 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.439 doing for the past twenty years, that can be a 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.600 little weird, I think. Okay, but how about the issue. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.520 And I've dealt with people who shy away from this. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.800 Let's if you choose either side. If you're an actor, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:19.679 you're playing a role music done right, it's yourself, okay. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.520 So would you be worried about alienating a potentially alienating 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.200 part of your personality, a part of your already fan base. 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.640 Excuse me? Sure, I mean you you can you can 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.320 worry about it. But at the same time, I think 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:33.760 that we live so we live in a time of 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.880 like extreme inauthenticity, you know. I mean we live in 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.080 a time where people are like who they are on 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.520 Instagram is not who they are, and those experiences like, 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:43.920 you know, I saw my friend who was just like 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.720 at a cabin in the snow and it looked beautiful 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.240 and I was like, oh my god, I'm so jealous, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.520 and like it looked magical. And he came back and 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.920 he was like, it was rats. It was disgusting. He 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.240 was like, I would never go back there. And I'm like, oh, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.880 it's because it's the exact opposite of what it looked like, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.280 you know what I mean. And so I think that 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.120 being authentic to you are actually cuts through right now. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:04.800 I think you see that with Billie Eilis, you see 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.360 it with Kanye, you see it with Lana del Rey. 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.319 I think that and yeah, you are gonna Yeah, I'm 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.240 sure it'll take off some people. We live in like 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.679 a polarized world right now. But like, I think that 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.840 you have to be I think that you what you 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.880 gain from being who you are massive is massively overwhelmed 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.760 what you would lose, Okay, are you ever creating in 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.880 whatever field, and worried about the audience response, not whether 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.000 they're gonna like it or not like it, but whether 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.480 they're going to react negatively. Where it's coming from. I'm 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.760 a hyper anxious person that is goes off the rails 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.800 when I'm giving my Starbucks order, you know what i mean, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.760 Like when I'm stepping up the next person in line, 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.000 I feel like I'm going to lose it because I'm like, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.160 you're gonna blow it, You're gonna say it wrong, They're 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.080 gonna you're gonna take too long. The person behind you 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.720 is gonna freak out. Um. So yeah, I worry about 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.680 it all that stuff all the time. But on some level, 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.680 I think that it's really it's really important to push 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.120 ahead and push and push the envelope. I think that 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.920 like when you look back at like for me at least, 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.680 when I look back at like Clash Records or Metallic 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.760 or whatever. You know, like everybody has a different you know, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.839 like uh uh inception or yeah or starting point, you 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.200 know what I mean. So like you, when you think 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:26.240 back on it, Um, Clash changing was hard, you know, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:27.920 I mean it's hard for fans, like when you fall 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.480 in love with something. It's hard when they change and 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.280 the thing, but I think sometimes it makes it easier 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.080 when you're as an adult or an older person, like 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.280 going back and listening to those things, you're like, God, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.920 blessed it this change, because like it's easier for me 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:45.120 to like understand and appreciate now. Um so yeah, I 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.839 mean I guess I yeah. I think we do think 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.120 about it and worry about that. But at the same time, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:51.880 I think you can't like live or die by it. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.200 You know, you have to. Okay, let's go back to 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.080 the installation. Are you the type of person I was 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.800 talking actually with Irving aids Off and he show with 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.640 about Dom Henley. Don Henley needs to get it exactly right. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:06.800 Everybody's worked with him. It's got to be his thing. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.840 And Irving said, it's that one percent that makes a 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.760 huge difference. You were talking about the perception of the audience. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.000 But what I ask you is that your personality where 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:18.960 it's got to be exactly right or do you lift 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:23.920 should go? Um I it is my personality to to 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.320 get it exactly right in the way that like, you know, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.760 I was just playing tennis today and my coach was like, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.800 you got like destroyed by this guy. And I was like, 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.000 but my strokes look like like if they hired me 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.360 to do play a tennis player in a movie, they 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.200 wouldn't have to have a double, you know what I mean, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:39.960 Like they would just be like, mis strokes look pretty good. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.520 You know, he looks like he could have played in college. Um. 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:47.080 But I think that everyone you know, like growing up 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.760 and watching the way the Internet has changed and the 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.200 way that you know, entertainment has changed, there's a danger 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.840 in making you know, Chinese democracy or whatever the record is, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.800 you know, like where you you cook it for too 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.520 long and you like muddy it, you know what I mean, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.440 Like you put too many colors in and you muddy it. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.360 So I think that having a sounding board or like 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.960 uh being okay with things going out and being like, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.320 well it's not perfect, but you know, like it needs 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:14.840 to be done, you know what I mean. Okay, But 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.800 but let's talk on a different thing. Let's just assume, uh, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:21.920 I guess what I'm talking about is that edge, that 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.080 fine edge, because certainly some of the greatest records of 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.640 all time were cutting the matter of minutes. Okay, are 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.840 you someone It's like me, I'm a big skier when 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.880 every when the skis everything is really right. Um, that's 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:34.640 important to me. Okay, if I go out and the 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:36.560 skis are dull and it's an icy day, it's kind 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.800 of ruined my day. So the question becomes, I guess 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.520 let's go back to your Starbucks order. Um, is it 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.760 an O C D thing? I don't think it's an 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.640 O C D thing. It's more of a um, maybe 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:52.160 it is an O C D thing, but it's more 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.360 let me this on the D your home alone, Yes 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.160 you leave you ever say, holy funk, did I set 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.760 the alarm? Did I the uh the uh the grill 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.920 on whatever? Yeah, yes I do. But more so my 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:11.920 stuff is like, um, when you're at a you know, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:13.440 like I was just at a coffee place and they 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.040 have the screen where you like sign your fighter on it, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:17.560 and I'm sitting there in my head and I'm like, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.400 I mean, we've evolved to the point where we have 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.560 these screens and these smartphones and everything, and I'm like, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.320 but like, what is the germ level on these screens 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:26.920 that you have to sign? Like it's got to be 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.400 like a million fingers on there. And they're like just 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.680 it freaked me out. Well, yeah, I know they did 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:33.720 that study that they're not gonna get any disease from 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.440 a toilet seat. But as far as you know the 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:42.600 signing on the iPad, I'm not really sure. But uh, okay, 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.920 but is it a social anxiety? I mean, what is 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.000 when you when you're uptight about giving your order? What? 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:54.200 Why do you think you're uptight? I think that I 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.320 am I'm thinking about the person behind me, and that 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.600 I'm taking too long, and that um am I saying 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.520 it right? And okay, because you you came in here 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.120 immediately fall into a groove, you're very easy to talk. Okay, 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.600 let's just assume we take you to somewhere where people 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.040 don't know who you are, your name, your fallout. Boy. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.200 Should I say, Okay, we're gonna go to a party 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.800 with twenty people. I I can't go, but you're gonna 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.760 go alone? You canna say finding say, man, I'm not 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.800 going alone. I will probably be like yeah, that'll be great, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.080 and then like, uh, like an hour before I'll tell 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:32.240 you I can't get a babysitter. Okay, which maybe the truth. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.560 Maybe you won't be the truth. Okay, you buy something 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.600 at best biased one goes to best buy, but you 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.159 do it fucked up? Okay, came that way? You uptight 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.280 about returning it? Absolutely? I don't want that conversation. You 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.679 know what that conversation. Okay, this is not treated. But 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.679 let's go back to the stadium show. Was it the 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.840 manager's idea or was it in the air? Was it 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.919 one of the bands? It is? I think it came 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.760 from the bands. I think the managers were like, we 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.760 can make this happen. Um. I think it would be 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.440 a would have been a lot harder to get it 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.800 together without having the same manager, because you can like 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.520 do like vertical moving, you know, whereas otherwise it's like 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.280 this fun is this size and like you would not 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.720 believe the stuff that guys and bands will argue about. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.960 Yeah yeah, yeah, Um. So I think it came from 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.320 the bands, like it was organic and and I knew 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.680 Rivers and we'd obviously grown up on on Green Day. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.200 Um and so yeah, I mean I and listen like 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.840 it's like you you get asked like where you want 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.080 to ski? Like everybody has like a like an ultimate 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.640 version of like what it is like for guys in 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.080 or girls in rock bands. It's like a stadium, you know, festival, 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.880 Like these are like these things that you yeah, absolutely 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.760 gotta you gotta do it, you know what I mean, 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:58.280 Like you want to do it, you know what I mean. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.040 And so yeah, it's it's just about like making it work, 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.440 you know what I mean. Okay, so your build in 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.840 all the building I've seen is the middle act? Was 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.280 that hard to work out? Irrelevant of the fonts uh 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.080 that we were playing, that we were in the middle 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.879 or that we were was it hard to work out? No, 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.359 I think that we Yeah, I mean it's hard to 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.680 work out in the way that like we haven't supported 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:25.680 any band in a really long time. So it's just 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.320 a different thing, you know. Um, but every time you 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.080 come back to it, you you know, like every time 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.320 I like freak out about anything, like my manager will 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.159 send me like Monsters of Rock posters, like pictures of 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.199 Rounsters rock posters, and you're like, these guys did this 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.520 and this was like an epic, epic, epic thing that 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.840 was bigger than all the bands, you know, and if 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.760 you're thinking about like who's like one or two of 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:47.960 four on those, it's like pretty insane, you know what 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.320 I mean. And so uh, yeah, you're you're making things 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.080 work for the greater good, you know what I mean? 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.600 And Okay, is there anything where Okay, I'm gonna go 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.359 out and blow away the head miner? Sure, of course. 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.240 I mean there's of that. I mean in the way 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.399 that like you want to Okay, so this is this 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.600 is what it is. So we played the we played 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.880 at the at the Whiskey, the three of us, three 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.000 bands played and there's part of you that's like, I 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.359 want to do this and like it's different and whatever. 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.000 And then you know, you're I'm watching Green Day play 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.200 and I'm like, damn, but they have these songs. And 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.440 we played the probably the best small club show that 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.359 we could have ever played. And when Green Day played, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.000 they had these songs that were like baked in people's 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.159 cultural DNA, you know what I mean. And it was 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.040 like seeing basket case in this tiny room. I'm just like, 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.960 it's just bigger. It's just the difference between like opening 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.520 like a bottle of wine that's like from the basement 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.120 of a seller of a French chateau, versus like screaming eagle. 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:53.720 It's just like it's just different, you know what I mean, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.879 Like it's had like fifty years and going to the 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.280 minor point. Are you into wine? Do like wine? Okay? 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.879 But you into you know, you're also collecting you mentioned 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:09.000 screaming eagle. Okay, I I've got a tastings I've I'm 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.680 not like uh no, I'm not like a real collector 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:17.879 of one. Do you collect anything? Uh? Yeah? I um 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:19.679 let me think, what are What are some things that 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:21.639 I'm like really into collecting. I have like all my 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.480 eighties toys? Uh you have the original ones? Who you 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.000 rebought them? No, they're all the originals. I'm like a 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.520 kind of like a what like literally from age five 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.960 seven that kind of toys. Okay, your parents, you have 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.080 any brothers or sister. I do have a younger brother 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.560 and younger sister. Okay. Hempic was the house. It was 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.960 I guess. I grew up in a upper middle class 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.200 and it was I guess my mother. She threw all 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.560 my ship up. My parents tried to and I would 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:52.719 like lose my mind, you know what I mean. Like 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.720 it was like and there and I'm probably should be 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.280 in some kind of therapy session for this, but I 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.800 would like, you know, like and eventually they just packed 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.080 it all when they moved out of the house. Moved downsized. 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.920 They um, they just shipped it all to me in boxes. Okay, 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:06.640 So other than your toys, what do you have from 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.920 your childhood? Oh? Man, I have a blanket that I 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:14.360 have all my baseball cards which are worth and those 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.200 would be worth Yeah, so I'm from like I got 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.040 my baseball cards are from like the junk era, so 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:23.040 like everything. Yeah. So uh that Ken Griffin is just 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.639 now worth a right? Um? What else do I have 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.760 that I collect? Uh? I collected vinyl for a little bit, 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.760 but nothing that crazy. Can you get rid of any 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.320 of this ship? What is it? Marie condo? Is that 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.320 what it is? Because you know, Marie now selling a 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.240 product that's the whole thing. Right, that's like the dream. Right, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.440 you get somebody to get rid of everything, and then 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.199 like you all of a sudden have a brand, so 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.760 you gotta like sell the merch. Although I will say 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.359 I don't want to go uh you know, make light 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.440 of all the people's houses burned down, But I am 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.359 a real hoarder and sometimes say, well, you know, as 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.399 long as they have my computer, if the whole house 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.640 burned out, it might be liberating, right. Mine would definitely 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.800 be Mine would definitely be liberating, uh, except I can 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:13.600 get my kids stuff out. But um, there's definitely a 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.520 point where like I was like, I'm just I'm just 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.760 a collector. And then I like looked at pictures of 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.000 this stuf. People were showing me pictures of my stuff, 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:24.040 and it like looks like hoarder stuff, you know what 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.000 I mean? And I guess that's how it how it 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.000 switches from collecting to hoarding. Is that like you don't 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.680 know right, Like there's like some like it's interesting, it's 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.840 in your DNA, and there's some dys morphia. There's some dysmorphia, 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:36.640 right because you look at it and it doesn't look 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.040 like okay, may look like junk to you, but I 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.960 know we're literally everything right, and if you reorganized that 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.560 I won't know where it is. And everything has sentimental 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:47.600 I just moved and for the first time ever, I 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:49.680 threw a lot of stuff out, stuff that I would 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:54.080 never throw out. And the cliche, unfortunately is true in 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:56.879 that you don't miss it. But there's a couple of 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:58.639 things I threw out a few years ago that I 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:00.960 still miss So how got a house do you live in? 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.959 How many square feet is it? I don't know it's 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.760 all in the garage. But I can't but I can't 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.680 park in the garage. Okay. And it's how many car garage? 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:16.440 Three car garage? So the three three things are full 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.760 of your ship? Yeah, okay. And then there's a storage 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:22.720 you did okay? How far? How far away is the 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.520 storage you? I have a close one in a far okay. 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.240 You you go on the road. Okay. There's lamb and 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.119 it's there's all kinds of stuff. You save all that ship, 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:35.400 A lot of it? I save. Yeah, I saved every 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:40.439 lamb in it. Okay. So we're in the house. What 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:45.119 other How easy is it for you to throw out anything? 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:49.720 Like the newspaper. I have an issue with other people 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:53.040 throwing my things away. Oh man, this is my girlfriend. 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:58.440 I what do you do? But I can do it? Yeah, 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:00.840 but I have a problem with other people making the call. 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.119 I have a huge problem and I want to And 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:08.240 it's like it's not super healthy, right, there's different I 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.240 see a special doctor for this. Okay. Have you ever 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:15.360 been in therapy? Okay, Well, it turns out regular therapy 0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:17.919 doesn't work for o c D. You have to go 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:22.199 to a special person and it's called exposure therapy. Okay, 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:23.480 And there's two things. I don't know if you have 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:25.880 any issues. Like one of my issues is if you say, 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:28.639 if one of those can't has like big skulls and 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:30.880 bones on it, it's very hard for me to touch that. 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:34.000 So first you work up your way to touch that. 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:37.919 Then hoarding. They actually send somebody to my house once 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.840 to teach me how to get rid of it. Okay, 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:47.800 and uh, there's definitely treatment for it. It's you know, 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.040 it comes down to two things. One the O c 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:52.800 D thing is you're crippling your life by when it 0:25:52.880 --> 0:25:55.960 comes to the stuff, whether you have enough space for it. 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:58.840 Sounds like you do, I mean kind of. I mean 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.000 I definitely was hold that our garage was dangerous the 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:04.840 other day, dangerous way something might fall. I guess that's 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:09.280 something might tip on somebody or fall or something. Yeah. Yeah, 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.399 I had that experience after the earthquake. You weren't in 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:14.440 l A. The earthquake now living in Santa Monica really shook. 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:16.640 And I had my vinyl records all the way up 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:19.200 to the ceiling, and I said, and I moved. I 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:20.919 was just afraid if they fall, if anybody's lying on 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.880 the couch, gonna kill them. But okay, let's go back 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.399 to the tennis. You play tennis at a club or 0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:28.760 you have a court or what I don't have a court. 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:33.080 I play like at either public courts or I played 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:35.159 like there's this one in the valley that's it's like 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:37.720 just barely kind of the valley that's called Weddington that 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:41.680 is like it's like public, but you pay so then 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:43.840 you don't have to like wait, you know, so it's 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.440 like how good a tennis player are you? Oh? Man, 0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.480 So they have levels? Uh, I guess I would be 0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:51.560 a four oh or a four or five? Four oh 0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:53.560 for sure? Not really explain what the levels are for 0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:57.439 those people on sophisticated um. It goes through like whether 0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:59.760 you're able to just hit return a shot, of whether 0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:02.080 you well to know the correct positioning, or whether you're 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:06.360 able to hit an aggressive offensive shot. And like for instance, 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:09.720 like like Gavin Gavin Rossdale, I think he's probably like 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.280 a four or five or five if not beyond you know, 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.680 what's the lowest? I don't know. I guess one maybe 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:18.320 or five yeah, But like I think after you get 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:20.159 past maybe six or seven, maybe it goes to a 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:23.680 professional somethime. So how often do you play? Oh boy, 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:25.040 I don't know if I need to go on record, 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:27.000 if somebody's listening that I tell that, I go to 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:31.000 like that. I'm you know, in meetings, I play out 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:34.480 too much. You play every day. I play every day. Okay, 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:37.160 what if you miss a couple of days. You're cool 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:38.960 with that, or you have a jones to get back 0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:41.040 out there. I definitely have a jones to get back 0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:43.040 out there. And did you play tennis as a kid? 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:45.160 I did not very well, but yeah I did. Okay, 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.800 how did you get back into it? I just played it, 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:50.800 goofing around and I played. And it's just one of 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:54.080 those ones that like is addictive the way, whether it 0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:56.560 would be skiing, you know, like once you you get 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:57.919 back in the rhythm, you're like, oh, I could just 0:27:57.960 --> 0:27:59.439 do this every day, Like if somebody was like you 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:01.679 could just do I used to ski every day and 0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:06.000 over Christmas ice ski twenty six out of twenty seven days. 0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.000 You get a fine edge when you do it every day, 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:12.040 and that fine edge is very rewarding. Person may not 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:14.440 even tell by looking at you, but like with this, 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:16.800 you know you can get to that shot. You know 0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.160 you can get it back over the net because once 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.480 you're in that groove and you go out and play 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.280 or ski, when you're not in that groove, it's depressing 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:26.480 because people say, oh you look, they say, no, I 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.080 know I can do this, and I'm not that I can't. 0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:31.199 And tennis is one of those like really messed up 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.720 ones where like you'll like that's similar to golf, and 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:36.080 I think golf is the more extreme version where you like, 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:38.680 we'll play one day and you're the best player you've 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:40.760 ever been, and then you played the next day and 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:42.600 you're like literally the worst. You know what I mean. 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.600 It's like one of those like super frustrating. Right certainly 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:48.560 is okay, So how did you get back into tennis? 0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.440 I just like started playing and I just played a 0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:54.440 couple of times, goofing around, and then like I just 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:56.520 got super into it. I think I had a ton 0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:57.840 of time and I got super into it, and then 0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.040 I like went and started playing on tour when we 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:04.560 like in Australia, I played like with some of like 0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:09.880 the AUSSI pro women and basically like you go from 0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:13.040 being like I watched it on TV, maybe I could 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:16.360 like do this, and then like I they this this 0:29:16.400 --> 0:29:19.080 one woman hit literally she was like, I'll serve one 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.320 real one to you. And it was like I just 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:23.000 tried to move out of the way. I mean, it 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:25.360 wasn't even like about returning it. And I was like, okay, 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:27.680 So like this is like not in the cards of 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:30.760 Like I remember when I was a little kid, I 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:32.640 used to play a lot of golf. Was never good. 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:34.440 And you got with someone who really dos how to play. 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:37.040 They're just not hitting the ball, they're working it. You 0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:39.480 have to spin to be at that elite level. I 0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:42.400 mean obviously Michael Jordan could never play baseball. So let's 0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:44.800 go back to the beginning. So you grew up where 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.680 in the Chicago area, the North Side, like the suburbs 0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:51.240 of Chicago which met Wineka. We basically grew up. We're like, 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:55.720 so like Breakfast Club was set at my my high school, 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.000 but did they film it or just set in terms 0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:01.000 of it was filmed there? So like basically every John 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:05.160 Hughes movie was set in Shermerville or whatever. And Shermerville 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:06.640 is not a real place. But there was a road 0:30:06.680 --> 0:30:10.239 that ran between me and the guitarist Joe of our 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:12.880 bands town his town in my town, and it was 0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:15.240 shermer Road. And so like everything was based on that. 0:30:15.320 --> 0:30:18.160 Like Home Alone was like one block from his house, 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:20.200 which is where we had had practice. But it's basically 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:23.720 like this, Like it's all those every one of those 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:26.360 movies is basically like that our town, you know what 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:28.800 I mean. Okay, So you grow up, you're the oldest kid. 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:32.040 Your parents have all their hopes and dreams invested in you. 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.520 I think that I had. I don't know about that, 0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:38.880 but I think that my parents had like, um, I 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:40.440 was like the experiment, you know what I mean. So 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:43.120 I was the one that like, you're an experiment because 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.240 of their parenting style or by nature of being the 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.160 first kid. Uh both. I think in the way that like, 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.240 let's go back, your parents had you. How old or 0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:55.040 young were they? Um, my dad was thirty and I 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.840 think my mom was twenty nine. Okay, so that's all reasonable. 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:00.520 And as your mother working outside the house at that point, 0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:05.040 she was before I before the young Prince came along, okay, 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:07.600 and then I think okay, and your father did what 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:10.440 for a living? He was a lawyer, was still a lawyer, 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:15.320 still practicing. Yeah, you refer to yourself as the young prince. Okay. 0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:17.600 My mom called me the uh, when I was born 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:20.480 the Prince of Edgewater. We lived in this uh part 0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:22.800 of Chicago called Edgewater Village, I think, And so she 0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:24.959 called me the Prince of Edgewater. But it was your 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.520 risk or she really treated you like a prince. I 0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:30.040 think it was humorous. I don't. I don't think my 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.480 mom really, I don't know. I'm not really sure, you 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:34.120 know what I mean. Like I I look at all 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.800 these pictures of me when I was little, and I'm 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:40.120 in yellow and all of them, and she was like, uh, 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:43.720 you know, like people just didn't have People didn't go 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:45.920 and look at what their baby was beforehand unless there 0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:48.280 was a problem, Like you wouldn't we just wouldn't, you 0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:49.440 know what I mean? And so like we just had 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:51.720 yellow because we thought you might be a girl. You 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:53.719 just never know. And I was like, yellow, such an 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.600 interesting color to put a baby in a bunch of time, 0:31:55.680 --> 0:32:04.280 a bunch of the time, you know. Okay, So if 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:07.480 I had your two siblings here, would they say you 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:10.200 were the prince and the favored child or they'd say, oh, 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:15.040 we're all equal. I think that my my my sister 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.400 um in some ways because it's two boys and a girl. 0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:21.600 And I think that she got um some special attention. 0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:24.640 She was. She was different. She was also like of 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:28.600 us was the was the easiest, you know. I mean 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:32.120 she's the middle and she was just she was just easy. 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:34.200 You know. I don't think I would think I was 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.120 like pretty. I was like difficult in the way that 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:38.880 like I dye my hair and I'd do a band 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:40.920 and you know, like it was just all you know, 0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:43.560 like I left college, you know what I mean, Like 0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:47.960 it was just all like I was, yeah, you know, 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.560 and it was as the first Okay, what is what 0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:55.080 are your sister and brother do? Uh? My sisters studied 0:32:55.200 --> 0:33:00.680 family sociology maybe um and she is stay at home 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:03.560 mom in Chicago with three kids, and my brother is 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:08.200 a fine artist in New York. Successfully. Yeah, I think so, 0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:10.520 I mean off the parents pay roll, off the parents 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.960 pay roll. I think he I don't really like it's 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:16.080 the same thing as like I have a little bit 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:20.840 of a of a guy in a band's perception of 0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:23.160 like what my dad and my brother do, because they 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:24.960 like explain it to me, and I'm like I kind 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:26.720 of understand, but I don't really because he were he 0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:28.560 does marketing as well, you know what I mean? So 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:31.120 I don't really fully understand. Okay, and you're close with 0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:35.280 your family and your siblings, Yeah, definitely. So you grow up, 0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:38.560 are you good in school or bad? I was always 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:42.160 like a very like I had to like, um, not 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:44.000 living up to your potential kind of thing, you know 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:45.800 what I mean. It was like a lot of like 0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.400 test Well doesn't do a lot of people that doesn't. 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:54.760 And you're like the you know, the king of the class, 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.600 the class count clown and outcast. Where do you fit in? 0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:05.520 I never out like I fit in where I lived. Um, 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:07.640 I don't. Yeah, I just I don't feel like I 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:10.799 really looked like anybody. And I didn't really like understand 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.440 the way people kind of like did their thing. And 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:16.000 my family was always the family that like we were 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:17.640 like a little bit like the weird family. Like my 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:19.960 parents would have us go eat it like Ethiopian restaurants 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:21.120 and stuff like that, and I was just like I 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.879 just want to eat fucking McDonald you know what I mean. 0:34:23.960 --> 0:34:26.400 It's like I just wanted to be normal, you know. 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.480 And now I appreciate it and I understand it, but 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.319 like at the time, it was like, um, yeah, and 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:34.799 so I don't I don't think I really felt like 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:37.160 I fit in. I think I was like probably always 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:39.839 trying to goof around to fit in. Maybe did you 0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:44.160 have friends? Yeah, I kind of had friends. I kind 0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:45.680 of was friends with everybody, you know what I mean, 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.080 like but like not, I don't. I didn't have like 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.279 close friends until I was a little older. Okay, So 0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:54.000 were they playing music in your house? My dad played 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:58.279 a ton of like um, like Temptations and a ton 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:03.439 of like Fogerty, Like it was like anything that was under, 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:04.759 Like a lot of the stuff was under, like the 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:08.280 like the oldiest station I guess in my town. Um, 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:10.200 and like my first concert he took me to was 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:12.440 Jimmy Buffett, you know what I mean, which is so 0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:17.360 I was I think I just wanted to go to 0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:19.759 a concert so bad that it was like it was 0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.719 pretty cool. And I thought like Margaritaville and like Cheeseburger 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:26.959 and Paradise were like pretty catchy songs. So um yeah, 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:28.640 because I think I just wanted to go to concert. 0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:30.000 My dad was like, I'll take you to this one, 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:33.160 and I was like, I want to say I was 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:35.239 like ten or eleven, and then like the summer that 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:39.640 I was fourteen, which was what year or thirteen, which 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:44.560 was so I graduated in nineties seven, so you were 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:52.920 born like in yeah. So yeah. So this summer, uh 0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:56.239 basically all at the same similar timing, maybe not the 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:58.719 whole summer, but like, uh, we were at this lake 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:02.160 house uh that my parents would go to. Um. It 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:03.919 was like kind of like a group lakehouse. I don't 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.279 really not explain it. It's like family camp or something 0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:11.360 like that. And I water skied, but like the older 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:14.040 kids all slalom water skied, and all I wanted to 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.960 do was slalom because it looked like a juicy for commercial. Also, 0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:20.400 Terminator two came out, um, and all I wanted to 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:21.880 do was see that movie, but it was radar and 0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:24.160 I think my parents didn't let me. And then I 0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:26.200 think it was that summer. In the next summer in Metallica, 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:28.279 Guns and Roses went a stadium tour and all I 0:36:28.280 --> 0:36:29.360 want to do was go to the show, and my 0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.040 parents were like, you're not going to that show. So 0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:33.480 it was like this like it was all wrapped to me. 0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:35.319 It's all wrapped up in the same thing kind of 0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:39.760 you know. Okay, did you have the Metallica and Guns 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:43.200 and Roses albums? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I said, I had 0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:46.640 the Guns and Roses album in my mom's car on tape, 0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:48.799 and I would have to sit there and turn down 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:50.520 the swear because I knew when the squares were coming, 0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:51.960 and this is when they had like Getting the Ring, 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:54.080 like and I had that whole getting the Ring speech, 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.480 you know, like, yeah, you'd be ripping off the kids 0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:58.120 to paying their hard earn money to read about the 0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:00.120 man's they want to know about talking ship writting? Do 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:02.200 you want to antagonize me? Antagonize me? You know, Like 0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.120 I had that whole speech memorize and I would be 0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:06.239 turning it up and down, like trying to like get 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:09.960 to swears like basically like you know, to put hi 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:11.799 cough buttons from my mom in the car because I 0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.200 was like this music school, it's cool, trust me, don't worry. 0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:15.960 But then I would like have to like you know, 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:18.799 self edited. Okay, but how did you get into Metallica 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:23.360 Guns and Roses? Um? So I had a group of 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:26.240 friends that like skateboarded and and that kind of stuff, 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:27.920 and I don't know how they got into it. I 0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:30.520 think there might have been an older brother, um Nick 0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:32.960 Poole and his older brother maybe Alex Pool I think 0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:35.239 maybe like made a tape this is back. I don't 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.640 know people would make tapes and would have a bunch 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.080 of different songs on it and uh, you know, like 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:43.920 Metallica and Slayer and stuff. But did your parents buy 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:46.960 you albums or was it mostly these tapes? That was 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:49.759 those tapes? And I don't think my parents, like my 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:52.319 parents would not buy me an album like that. I 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:56.359 don't think. So did they buy you any albums? Man? 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:02.359 Did they buy me? I think that there was, like, yeah, 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.360 I'm sure there was like um, like R and B 0:38:05.560 --> 0:38:08.000 stuff for like stuff that like my parents would also 0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:11.920 listen to was okay to be bought. But like I 0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:14.919 don't even think. I don't even know if it came 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.520 into Like I don't even know. And this is weird 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:18.960 because like this is not how people and I'm a 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:21.719 I'm a parent of three, this is not how people 0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:23.399 parent anymore. But like I don't I think I might 0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:25.120 have been nervous to ask my parents for it, or 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:27.160 like I just expected that they were it was gonna 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:28.880 be a no, So I just didn't even Like it 0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:32.000 wasn't even in the like wheelhouse, like it wasn't like 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:34.520 it would never I would never think to ask, Okay, 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:37.279 so those are all hard edge? Was that the only 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:39.960 music you were into at the time, for sure? And 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:41.680 then I got even harder. I got into punk rock, 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:44.480 and I got into like death metal and like, so 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.200 you never went to the Guns and Roses Metallica tour, 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:49.040 you know. I went to Guns and Roses at Dodger 0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:52.360 Stadium maybe two years ago, and it was amazing because 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.239 it was like all these people that had kind of 0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:59.040 like um been like stuck and frozen in time. It 0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:00.279 felt like, you know what I mean, And I was 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:01.520 one of them, you know, I mean, because like you're 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:03.200 in the merch and it just kind of like looked 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.600 like you'd just like come out from underground and you're 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:09.160 like Guns and Roses still around in two thousands, seventeen 0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:11.040 or whatever I always say. And I saw Guns and 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.919 Roses when they played a week at the Forum after 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:16.239 Use Your Illusion, you know, when and two came out, 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.040 And that was still when they were coming on hours late, 0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.520 and they were phenomenal. But like when I go to 0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:24.600 see the Stones now, well, when I when the Stones 0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:27.040 first started doing really the stadium towards whatever, like a 0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:29.160 couple of decades ago, I always thought it was the 0:39:29.200 --> 0:39:31.800 people who were afraid to go the first time it 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.239 was too dangerous. Now they had leather jackets. Was that 0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:37.200 like going to the Guns and Roses Show. I think 0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:40.040 that the Guns and Roses Show was a little different 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:41.960 in the way that because they went away for so long, 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:43.560 so I think a lot of people were like, I'll 0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:45.680 never see him again, you know, And and it was 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:47.879 people who would like and I think in a weird 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.360 way it kind of like you could speak about it 0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:53.760 in in our band, like having to two different portions 0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:55.800 of our career, because there was a lot of people 0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.040 like me who was like just too young or told 0:39:58.080 --> 0:39:59.919 that you couldn't go or something, and then you came. 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:02.400 And I think that the way I experienced it was 0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:04.480 like and the music and art has a funny way 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:06.520 of doing this. We were like it tricks you, like 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.399 where I was like experiencing it as a fourteen year old, 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:10.560 you know what I mean. So I'm sitting there and 0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:13.759 I'm in the crowd, and like I came around. I 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:15.319 went with like four people and like some of them 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:17.359 were like, I don't know, this is like this kind 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:19.239 of goofy or whatever. But for me, it was just 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.600 like wish fulfillment. I was like, okay, like I didn't 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:24.600 want to go my friends and the agents, etcetera. I 0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:26.480 don't want to go a because Izz he wasn't in 0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:30.040 the act. And two I had good memories and want 0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:31.799 there are a number of acts like that I won't 0:40:31.800 --> 0:40:35.360 go see again. So okay, you have those things you 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.000 don't go to the show. Did you grow up playing, 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:40.640 taking piano lessons or any of that. Ship I grew 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:42.640 up taking piano lessons. I didn't want to do it. 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:45.560 I quit. My mom was like, you're gonna regret this, 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:49.200 and like it's the like stereotypical. I definitely regret it. 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:51.719 How long did you take piano lessons for it? I 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:55.680 took four or five years. Yeah, but I'll be honest, 0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:58.399 it never got to the point. And like I see 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:00.319 these piano teachers now and I have to give like 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.760 a huge, huge shout out. Is uh and maybe they existed, 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:05.799 they just don't think exist and maybe where I was, 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:09.920 But uh, it's fun now, Like I like my kids 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:14.520 do like imagine dragons and and and Star Wars song, 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:16.680 you know. I like it's like they do like fun 0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:18.839 things and real things and they're reading music and it's 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.880 like making it fun and making it relatable, you know, 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:23.920 like I don't think it was the way I was 0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:26.560 doing it was like not super relatable, just sitting there 0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:29.319 doing scales and you know, I don't know, can you 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.640 still read music? I could read music for piano, I 0:41:32.640 --> 0:41:34.960 can't read music for guitar. But okay, so when do 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.480 you make the switch? When do you start picking up 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:40.680 the bass or whatever? You pick up? Bass is a 0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:45.760 funny one because it's the instrument that, like, people always 0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:48.040 need bassis and it's always the one that like people 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:50.359 before there, everyone was like, you know, like a DJ. 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:52.000 People were like, oh, I could probably play that one. 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:53.799 It's only got four strings. And I think I was like, 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:55.360 you know, my friends were doing a punk band, and 0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.600 I was like, sure, this one's got this one seems 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.200 easier to learn, you know what I mean. So they 0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:05.040 decided to do a band before you actually played the bass. Yeah, 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:07.520 I mean definitely. This wasn't Fallout Boy, but it was 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:13.560 other punk bands and whatever. Okay, so what do you say, 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:16.279 mom and dad, I need a bass because I gotta 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:17.880 be in this punk band. No, no, no no no. It 0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:19.960 was like so scrappy then, where it was just like 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:22.680 you were trading and you were borrowing, and the older 0:42:22.719 --> 0:42:24.560 brothers had things, and you know what I mean, Like 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:27.440 it was like, no, for sure, I think my parents 0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.720 actually would have been supportive of me having a musical 0:42:30.760 --> 0:42:33.719 instrument of some kind. But I think this was like 0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:36.480 my thing, you know, like or whatever ports around it, 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:37.920 but it was like mine, So I just wanted to 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:40.759 do it my way. Okay, So you learned on the fly. 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:43.200 You formed the band first, and then you learned how 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:46.919 to play. Yeah, I learned. I learned how to play 0:42:46.960 --> 0:42:50.600 like in in the practices, Yeah for sure. And you 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:52.319 know I you know, I could play the guitar. I 0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:56.920 can't imagine playing the bass, especially fretless bass. So how 0:42:57.080 --> 0:42:58.960 long did it take for you to say, Okay, I 0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:03.799 kind of understand that us we're getting there. Still think, well, 0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:07.719 whatever I mean, Lars went back for drum lessons long 0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:10.920 into Metallica's career. Did you ever go to professional or 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:13.080 try to listen to records try to replicate and learn 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:16.000 from people who were pros. Yeah for sure. And like 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.680 for me, like a lot of like metronome work and 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:23.840 and and and timing and and playing things that aren't 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:26.359 in the wheelhouse to fall out boy to kind of 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.799 like figure some of that out. And like honestly with 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:35.360 Patrick our singer, like he's um so predator, naturally musically gifted, 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:37.839 Like it's just to me off the charts. Bizarre. It's 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:41.320 like when you just somebody you know, like throws the 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:42.759 ball and you're like, oh, he just like knows how 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:44.560 to do it. He does that with like every instrument 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:47.160 kind of you know whatever. Um, he'll help me with stuff, 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:49.400 you know what I mean. So now you're playing in 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:52.120 punk bands, you're in the high school. Is it the 0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:55.279 type of thing where it's extracurricular or is it impinging 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:59.160 on your studies? I didn't care about my studies in 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:03.680 high school. Yeah. Well they sent me to uh, they 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:06.960 sent me to a boot camp in um, New Hampshire. 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.040 How old were you when you went to the boot camp? 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:14.640 I think this all happened around fourteen fifteen. Okay, what 0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.520 was the straw that broke the camel's back that made 0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:19.160 them send you to the boot camp? I think it 0:44:19.239 --> 0:44:22.319 was missing like day eighty one at school something like that. 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:24.239 I'd like, Okay, when I went to school, it was 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:26.640 like a police state and if you didn't go and 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:30.560 you didn't they called your house. Yeah, this was like 0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:32.200 one of those ones where you could figure out all 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:36.439 these different ways to like kind of uh, there's ways 0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:38.360 to game it, I think at the time, like where 0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:44.040 you could build up your free periods and you can. Okay, 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:46.320 and this was regular public high school. This is public 0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:48.560 high school. And then thisbly my last year a public 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:51.600 high school though. Okay, so for three years it worked 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:55.520 for no because this is like age fourteen, fifteen, so 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.920 this was one year. Okay, that's what I thought. So 0:44:57.960 --> 0:44:59.800 what you're you're out of junior high, you're in the 0:44:59.880 --> 0:45:03.600 HIG school. Okay. Was this out of the blue or 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:07.480 were they trying to discipline you first? Oh, I'm sure 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:11.879 they were disciplining me. Like my parents were pretty pretty 0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:16.160 good about discipline or they were pretty you know, straight 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:17.960 and narrow. But at the same time, like my dad 0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:19.359 was the kind of guy that would be like Adar. 0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:22.560 We played at this play this venue in Chicago called 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:24.439 the Fireside Bowl, which is bowling alley, but they would 0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:26.279 kind of like let shows happen, but the guy was 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.560 pissed that shows happened there, which is like all these 0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:32.560 great venues in Chicago. Like the guy like regrettably. Yeah, 0:45:32.680 --> 0:45:34.799 something would come and say, hey I can increase your 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:38.040 business then totally. But my dad would be at all 0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:40.520 these shows with like the tie in the back, yeah, 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:42.600 which is pretty cool. My father came to one of 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:44.560 my Little League games. I mean he had virtues but 0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:48.120 supported me in my dreams by showing up. Never so 0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:52.239 in any event, Okay, why what did they say when 0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:56.480 they were going to send you into Hampshire? Um? I 0:45:56.520 --> 0:45:59.200 think it was like, you know, like it was like 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:00.840 we talked about like it was like, you know, getting 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:05.000 me back on the straight and narrow kind like no, no, no, 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:07.600 And like now it's easy to like look back and 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:09.720 be like, well it's fine because you were taking these 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:14.920 these these turns because you're doing art and you want 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:16.560 to do this that. But like I think that that 0:46:17.280 --> 0:46:19.239 had it gone a different way, they'd be like this 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:21.680 is this was the turning point when we could have 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:23.520 gotten you back, you know what I mean? So how 0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:25.440 long did you go to the Hampshire for? I think 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.160 I was there a month. Maybe it's like ridiculous. It 0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:33.040 was like you know those giant like gatorade bottles, the 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:34.920 ones that like they have for teams or whatever, Like 0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:36.440 one day, they would have you dig a hole and 0:46:36.480 --> 0:46:38.279 put it in the ground, and then the next day 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:39.880 they would have you dig it up and take it 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:43.160 out of like just like no, you know, like just 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.839 kind of like how many other kids were there? Oh? 0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:49.080 I would say that there was like a hundred. Maybe 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:51.839 boys and girls are just boys, boys and girls coad, 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.960 but you were only with boys, okay, And it was 0:46:55.000 --> 0:47:00.120 like all uh I was in there with the the 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:03.440 lightest record. Okay, that's my point. It's like going to 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:07.480 jail from the other people. No, I was terrified. I 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:09.560 was scared of everybody there, you know what I mean. 0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:11.160 I was like, oh my god, these people are all 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:15.160 like actual criminals, and so they have to decide when 0:47:15.200 --> 0:47:18.000 you get out or was a month set up in advance. 0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:20.680 I think you were supposed to come to some like 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:24.120 um moment of clarity, but I don't know that I did. 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:25.520 But I think you were supposed to come to some 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:29.600 like I'm a changed kid, or like I'm a new 0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:31.520 boy or whatever. You know. I got something like that, 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:34.279 you know what I mean? Okay, And so when you 0:47:34.360 --> 0:47:37.680 went back, did you go back on the straight and narrow. No. 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:41.600 So when I went back, I went to a private school, 0:47:42.600 --> 0:47:47.360 and um my mom was the dean of admissions or 0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:49.839 assistant dean of admissions at the private school. So it 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:53.600 was very interesting in the way that like, if I 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:55.200 ever got in trouble there, I would just go to 0:47:55.200 --> 0:47:58.160 my mom's office, and that's like about a hundred million 0:47:58.239 --> 0:48:00.680 times worse than going to the actual I can imagine, 0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:02.360 you know what I mean. So that got me on 0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:03.880 the straight and narrow in a weird way because it 0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:06.800 was just like your mom's just like at school with you. Okay, 0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:09.480 so you graduate from that school and you actually go 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:11.239 to college for a while. I did. I went to 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:13.960 DePaul University for local Okay, how long did you actually go? 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:20.320 I went for so I know. So when I graduated, 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.919 I went to UM Columbia in Chicago, and then I 0:48:23.960 --> 0:48:27.480 transferred to DePaul and I went there for you go 0:48:27.520 --> 0:48:30.239 to Columbia for like six months maybe I think that, 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:31.640 And then I went to the Paul four I think 0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.000 maybe a year or year and a half. Okay, did 0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:38.600 you fit in inpl I did? I think that? Like, uh, 0:48:38.760 --> 0:48:43.880 in in colleges in in bigger colleges. It was a 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.000 little bit like the movie Higher Learning. You can find 0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:49.440 your like your group. Well, I went to a small college. 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:50.960 I stood out. I came to l a if I'm 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:53.239 you know, a million people just like big so you 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:54.879 can find like if you're at a if. I think, 0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:56.880 if you're in a big enough place, you can find 0:48:57.480 --> 0:49:00.240 your group and kind of find people like minded poll 0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:04.200 and I actually liked, like, I like like the basketball 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:05.840 players there, Like there was a lot of people there that, 0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:09.640 like I think I would not have probably come across 0:49:09.760 --> 0:49:11.880 or like you know, like had interactions with that that 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:13.759 because I was there, I did, and I liked a 0:49:13.800 --> 0:49:15.200 lot of the people. But we were doing the band 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:16.839 at the same time, so it was like, okay, so 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:20.200 why did you drop out? We were doing the band. 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:24.839 We were doing Fallout Boy, and it was we were 0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:26.160 doing with the way we did the band at the 0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:28.600 time was like it's so weird, Like you know, I 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:30.160 talked to my manager about it now and he's like, 0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:33.000 so bizarre he did it, but like we would basically 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:35.560 be like, well, what did like Molly Crue and those 0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:37.560 bands do back in the day, And it was like 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:39.759 they we pasted flyers and like stuff like this. We 0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:42.759 were like on roofs like wheat pasting flyers, which was 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:45.120 something that like no one did at the time, you know, 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:46.759 I mean at all, And so it was just like 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:50.880 it's I think that maybe stood out a little bit. Um. 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:54.160 But we were doing about like forty hours of like work, 0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:56.080 forty plus hours of work in the band, and then 0:49:56.160 --> 0:50:00.800 you were going to school for you know, thirty ended school. 0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:03.759 Uh my, my parents did I could take a year 0:50:03.800 --> 0:50:05.759 off to see how the band went, you know, I 0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:09.360 mean yeah, and so that's this year. I'm in the year. Okay, 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:12.840 so you're playing the base, you're playing in punk bands. 0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:16.000 At what point do you say, Wow, this could be 0:50:16.000 --> 0:50:17.879 a real direction. This is what I want to do, 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:24.240 like as like live on it. Um. That came super 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:28.759 super super super late. Uh, because our band's trajectory was 0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:33.440 like really bizarrely slow, you know, like it's like the 0:50:33.480 --> 0:50:38.520 eight year overnight or whatever. You know. Um. Now, so 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:39.920 I was like we were playing in it, but we 0:50:39.920 --> 0:50:44.040 were like and we were like doing the band full time, 0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:46.160 but we lived in our parents basements and stuff, and 0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:48.000 we were just on tour in a van and like 0:50:48.040 --> 0:50:49.880 we didn't have label support, you know. I mean, so 0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:51.680 it wasn't like Okay, let's go back you're in the 0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:55.440 punk band. What's the evolution there to fall Out Boy. 0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:57.600 We were just in the like a million different bands, 0:50:57.640 --> 0:50:59.920 and I think that we were getting paid for gigs. 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:02.920 I mean paid in like pizza or whatever. You know. 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.279 I mean like not making anybody. It's fun. It's fun, 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:09.000 and um, are you good with girls at that age? 0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:13.280 Real bad? I was just like fine. I think, okay, 0:51:13.280 --> 0:51:15.319 well this, you're playing the bass in a band, You're 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:17.640 playing all these gigs. I figured that must do well 0:51:17.719 --> 0:51:21.000 for you romantically in the narrow when that's very important. 0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:26.000 I don't think. I don't think it was like the 0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:30.520 band wasn't like cool, you know. I mean it was 0:51:30.560 --> 0:51:33.520 like a dorky punk band. You know, they're dorky punk bands. 0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:36.920 Dorky punk bands. How does that evolve into fall Out Boy? 0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:39.480 We actually wanted to I think we when we the 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:45.640 inception of it was like we wanted to do. Um. 0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:47.520 It's funny because I think we got in these heavier 0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:50.239 bands that we took really seriously before, Like, so we 0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:51.920 went from these punk bands, We got into these heavier 0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:54.360 bands that we took super super seriously, like a heavier 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:57.320 like metal was yeah, metal, hardcore, that kind of stuff, 0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:01.400 And we wanted to just be in these like heavy 0:52:01.440 --> 0:52:03.279 bands that we like kind of like looked up to 0:52:03.640 --> 0:52:08.759 um and that was like a grind, you know what 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:11.040 I mean, Like because you're screaming and you're you know, 0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:14.040 like it was just kind of thankless. I think, unless 0:52:14.080 --> 0:52:16.919 you're in one of those big bands, it's a little 0:52:16.960 --> 0:52:19.759 thankless and you just do it over night in, night out. 0:52:19.760 --> 0:52:22.080 So we wanted to do something that was just fun 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:24.680 on the side, and that's what fall Boy was. Okay, 0:52:24.880 --> 0:52:28.160 And but it was different people originally, right, it was 0:52:28.200 --> 0:52:31.600 all the same people except for the drummer was different, okay, 0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:34.560 So they were all and was everybody agreeing that this 0:52:34.600 --> 0:52:37.080 would be a good thing to do, agreeing that it 0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:38.600 would be a fun thing to do. I don't think that. 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:42.160 It was almost like Clay grishasen. You know, the innovator's dilemma. 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:44.920 You have a disruption, At what point do you realize 0:52:45.480 --> 0:52:48.359 that's more successful than the scream? Oh thing? Oh man, 0:52:48.760 --> 0:52:53.160 that's a good um, you know, I guess at the 0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:55.719 point when you're playing. We were playing shows in Chicago, 0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:59.920 and well, first it became that our friends, more than 0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:01.480 just our friends were coming to the shows. It wasn't 0:53:01.480 --> 0:53:04.240 just people we were like begging to come to the shows, 0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:06.960 and this is like pre really the internet wasn't what 0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:08.440 the internet is now, you know what I mean, So 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:13.080 like this is what one but like it just wasn't 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:16.240 like there was like chat rooms and like email lists 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:19.080 and there was message boards, but they weren't really what 0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:21.120 they are now, you know what I mean. And so 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:26.160 it's turned from more than just our friends coming two 0:53:26.200 --> 0:53:30.520 shows to the fire Marshal showing up at like every 0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:32.440 show that we played in Chicago and being like this 0:53:32.480 --> 0:53:34.520 show shut down, there's too many people? How many people? 0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:37.040 It would be like we would be in like a 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:40.040 Knights of Columbus hall that fit like two people and 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:41.759 we would try to put like seven people in it, 0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:44.359 I mean, and it would be like and every show 0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:46.600 got shut down. Okay, how much do you think was 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:48.279 word of mouth? And how much do you think was 0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:51.839 was sheer elbow grease with your promotion with with the 0:53:51.840 --> 0:53:56.880 flyers and all the pasting up the everything. People always 0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:58.560 ask this, you know, like they're like, how much of 0:53:58.600 --> 0:53:59.960 it you know? How much do we need to go 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:02.080 on tour versus how much do we you know, need 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:03.799 to be in the studio and how much you know 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:06.200 is you know, and I think you have to do 0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:08.160 it all and to me, you know, like I think 0:54:08.160 --> 0:54:10.640 there isn't intangible like when the four of us are 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:13.160 on stage, it's for some reason different than when one 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:14.640 of us does a different day or something like that, 0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:17.439 for whatever reason that is. But I do think that, 0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:21.040 you know, like if you're not gonna get up tomorrow 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:24.600 morning and go and do the radio interview, someone else 0:54:24.600 --> 0:54:25.680 is gonna go do it, you know. I mean like 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:27.799 there is like something to be said for like this 0:54:27.960 --> 0:54:31.000 is you need to be ambitious and go out And 0:54:31.000 --> 0:54:33.759 do you still feel that today twenty years later? Sure 0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:36.799 it's in a different way, but yeah, absolutely, Well I 0:54:36.840 --> 0:54:40.680 don't think you can go right the same like punk 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:44.759 record when you have like kids and you're debating whether 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:46.920 they should be in like a monostory school or not. 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:49.200 Like it's just like it's not going to sound the same. 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:52.840 But I do think that's what like the Hella Mega 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:54.480 toward the Stadium tour is to me, you know what 0:54:54.520 --> 0:54:57.040 I mean, Like it's like we wouldn't do that unless 0:54:57.040 --> 0:54:58.840 we were there was an ambition to be in a 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:03.160 state siphically about the music. Obviously you have your well 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:07.160 known tracks if the audience wants to hear in today's 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:10.280 are Although you have a very loyal fan base, how 0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:13.719 do you feel not making the record but playing that 0:55:13.800 --> 0:55:16.319 stuff live? And how much do you want to play live? 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:22.120 Oh that's a good question. Um. I think for a 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:26.080 band like us, it's like our our things always our 0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:28.399 our attempt has always been to create a culture. And 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:32.680 so I don't think that just sitting at home will 0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:35.600 be you know, in the sandbox will really work, you know, 0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:39.680 in the sandboxing living room. Um. But at the same time, 0:55:39.760 --> 0:55:44.600 like yeah, I mean, like playing live becomes different and 0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:47.280 like how much how many of the songs are you playing? 0:55:47.320 --> 0:55:50.719 Like we're playing a seventy minutes set in stadiums and 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:52.720 so we got to like figure out what that would 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:56.080 be and what songs we should be playing. But um, 0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:58.600 we're I think we're Our band is really interesting in 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:00.520 the way that like we have one full kind of 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:04.680 like the music business is probably has the biggest chasm 0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:07.000 that it's ever had in my in my time of 0:56:07.040 --> 0:56:09.800 being alive, between the old business and the new business, 0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:11.560 and our band is a band that's like got a 0:56:11.560 --> 0:56:14.040 foot in both, like has seen both a little bit, 0:56:14.040 --> 0:56:17.040 you know, so it's it's interesting and like, you know, 0:56:17.080 --> 0:56:19.799 like some people will be like, you know, like you 0:56:19.800 --> 0:56:21.960 guys should only do singles or you know, like the 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:24.279 album doesn't matter, and like for us, it's like we're 0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:25.960 kind of like all over the place, and I think 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:30.319 we have to do what makes the most sense authentically, 0:56:30.560 --> 0:56:33.400 and I think that that's like that will be the 0:56:33.440 --> 0:56:35.440 only payoff for us. I think chasing a thing or 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:39.320 whatever like won't. That won't work. Okay, But most acts 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:43.560 in general, okay, they have assuming they have hits, they 0:56:43.600 --> 0:56:47.080 have their hit period and then they're encased in amber 0:56:47.840 --> 0:56:50.839 and they just basically play those hips until nobody wants 0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:54.080 to see them anymore to every increasing crowds. So I 0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:56.000 was talking to Pete Tongue and he talking about in 0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:58.600 terms of DJs, and he says, well, you need to 0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:06.400 reinvent yourself. Do you feel that at all of fawom? Yeah, 0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:10.440 And it's really it's a it's an interesting time. But 0:57:10.680 --> 0:57:12.359 it's interesting in the way that like, when you've been 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:15.680 doing anything for twenty years, how do you have inspiration 0:57:15.800 --> 0:57:18.640 that's different than you had twenty years ago when you 0:57:18.680 --> 0:57:20.760 were probably hungrier and you wanted it more and you 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:25.840 were you've never done it before, you know, um, yeah, 0:57:25.880 --> 0:57:29.120 because I mean that you have what a lifetime to 0:57:29.160 --> 0:57:30.760 write your first song whatever it is, you know what 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.960 I mean? And and to me, it's like that's why 0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:36.360 we worked with We worked with this kid, Burner Boy 0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:38.560 from Lagos on the last record. Like, I just think 0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:42.480 you have to kind of like, uh, go outside your 0:57:42.480 --> 0:57:45.120 comfort zone in order to find new things. There's just 0:57:45.160 --> 0:57:48.880 a fine line in the way that like there's a 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:56.880 difference between us going and working with burna boy uh 0:57:56.960 --> 0:57:59.920 and writing a song with him than like me feeling 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:02.680 extreme anxiety to have an account on like TikTok, you know. 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:04.240 I mean, like, I think there's a difference. One like 0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:07.680 feels like natural and something that like is pushing us 0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:10.680 to do something that's beyond ourselves, and the other one 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:14.280 feels like you could end up being like the old 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:18.240 guy that's trying desperately to be I don't know to 0:58:18.280 --> 0:58:21.439 what degree you follow this stuff. But Justin Bieber tried 0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:25.160 to juice is Spotify. How do you feel about that. 0:58:26.360 --> 0:58:28.440 I don't think that Justin needs to do that to me, 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:31.440 you know the funny the record came in at number two, Yeah, 0:58:31.520 --> 0:58:36.080 I mean, yeah, but like to me, I'm like, Justin's 0:58:36.120 --> 0:58:42.320 like a big star, a big, super super famous, super talented. 0:58:42.480 --> 0:58:44.440 If you like watch him. I don't think he needs 0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:45.800 to you know what I mean, Like, I don't think 0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:49.240 he well, hey days of indie promotion. To me, that 0:58:49.280 --> 0:58:51.440 to me, doing that is like beneath him to me. 0:58:51.640 --> 0:58:54.400 You know my question. Okay, let's go back. So you're 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:57.880 in college. By time you drop out, you take that 0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:01.560 one year. What is the status of the band? We 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:05.600 were playing this place in uh in Chicago. We were 0:59:05.640 --> 0:59:08.680 headlining finally, this place called the Metro in Chicago, which 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:12.160 I think is twelve capacity maybe or something like that, 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:17.160 maybe more may We were headlining it. I remember we Uh. 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:19.120 I looked at my parents were like in a you know, 0:59:19.400 --> 0:59:22.520 the balcony or whatever, and there was like these floating 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:27.760 um dildo balloons that were like six ft big, and 0:59:27.760 --> 0:59:32.120 I remember, I remember I remember throwing one at my 0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:35.320 mom in the balcony and watching her like stomp this 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:39.560 thing into kind of oblivion, and it was like there 0:59:39.600 --> 0:59:41.240 was like a moment where it was like I think 0:59:41.280 --> 0:59:44.320 she's gonna like let me keep doing this, you know 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:46.320 what I mean? You played the Metro, do you remember 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:50.720 what the payday was. Oh man, I have no idea. 0:59:50.880 --> 0:59:56.280 There was the Metro. I think at the time before 0:59:56.320 --> 0:59:57.760 that there was like they would give a lot of 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:00.240 a lot of tickets away. So I think this was 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:03.240 actually a hard ticket. But I'm not sure and I 1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:06.240 don't remember the payday was. I can't imagine. It was crazy. 1:00:06.360 --> 1:00:08.280 You have the dial Doo balloons. Well, how much other 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:10.439 production in the mtics did you have in this show? 1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:12.720 We had a backdrop, which was like a big deal 1:00:13.400 --> 1:00:15.320 because we I think we had weren't able to hang 1:00:15.320 --> 1:00:18.440 our backdrop on tours before that. And that was it. 1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:22.240 That was the production. Okay, So is that the turning 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:24.960 point in your mind saying this could really work? That 1:00:25.080 --> 1:00:26.560 was the turning point where I was like, my parents 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:30.800 are gonna let me do it? Uh. The trajectory was 1:00:30.880 --> 1:00:34.760 so slow that, like you know, I remember, we were 1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:38.200 approached by a couple of management companies. They all seemed terrible, 1:00:38.600 --> 1:00:44.440 um uh, And we were approached. We we we reached 1:00:44.480 --> 1:00:46.680 out to what we I think we reached out to Crush, 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:49.480 who became our managers, and they were kind of like, yeah, 1:00:49.560 --> 1:00:51.200 we just like you guys, just do what you do 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:52.720 because we kind of had these shows where we just 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:56.400 play super fast stuff and okay, so the Crush was 1:00:56.480 --> 1:00:59.440 the first manager you ever had. They were Yeah, so 1:00:59.640 --> 1:01:01.880 before were that? Who was the business guy in the band? 1:01:02.120 --> 1:01:04.440 You're you're talking to him? I think that's what I think. 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:06.560 I wanted you to admit it though. But the funny 1:01:06.560 --> 1:01:10.560 thing is usually it's the drummer. But okay, so you're 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:13.760 making all the deals, You're getting the gigs, etcetera. Oh yeah, 1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:15.520 and this is like the times where like, so I 1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:19.520 remember we played we were supposed to play in Baltimore 1:01:19.560 --> 1:01:22.680 at this tiny club in Baltimore, and we drove in, 1:01:23.040 --> 1:01:24.520 got to the club and there was like a sign 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:26.480 on the door that said the show wasn't happening because 1:01:26.480 --> 1:01:28.040 there was snow or something like that. But there was 1:01:28.160 --> 1:01:31.920 just cell phones weren't really what they are, and the 1:01:31.960 --> 1:01:33.680 internet isn't like what we were talking about. It wasn't 1:01:33.720 --> 1:01:36.080 what it was. So it was like figuring this stuff 1:01:36.080 --> 1:01:39.320 out as like your own booking agent was not super easy. 1:01:39.640 --> 1:01:42.400 Okay at that point, how much were you working and 1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:46.560 how broad was your territory. Well, we started in Chicago, 1:01:46.600 --> 1:01:49.959 the suburbs of Chicago, and we played kind of any 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:52.040 show that we could. We would jump on stage and 1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:55.520 play on the Piel's equipment. From there, I think we 1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:59.760 played Detroit, and then we played Cleveland and then Indian 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:02.320 Apple Lists and then we would just we just begged 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:04.600 for tours. We couldn't really get tours. This band Punchline 1:02:04.640 --> 1:02:08.320 took us out graciously super early, kind of everywhere with them, 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:11.160 which was awesome. This band um you know, and and 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.400 then you know, getting ahead to when I don't know, 1:02:13.520 --> 1:02:15.400 we we we ended up signing to a record label 1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:19.680 and uh. From there, this band Less than Jake took 1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:22.400 us on tour a bunch. Okay, listen, Jake is still 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:27.440 working right, Okay, So when you drop out of college, 1:02:27.600 --> 1:02:32.520 I assume you're like twenty years old. Ye how long 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:38.360 after that did you get the record deal? Maybe a 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:41.040 year later? And this was a deal with an indie, 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:43.400 you know what I mean? Was there any I know that, 1:02:43.480 --> 1:02:48.000 was there any money? Man? We had an upstream they 1:02:48.040 --> 1:02:51.479 had an upstream deal with with Island, but I don't 1:02:51.560 --> 1:02:53.600 think it didn't do anything on the LP that we 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:55.920 put out, so it wasn't There wasn't really much okay, 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.400 and who recorded who produced it? We had this guy 1:02:59.440 --> 1:03:01.440 named Shano Keith that we really liked. That was a 1:03:01.440 --> 1:03:04.640 local hero that recorded the whole the whole album. So 1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:06.880 how long did it take you to make that album? 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:08.440 I want to say this is a time when it 1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:12.120 took about okay, So standard would be that it would 1:03:12.160 --> 1:03:14.240 take us three months to make an album, but this 1:03:14.360 --> 1:03:18.880 one we couldn't afford anything. So like there was a 1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:20.600 time when we were we were working at the studio 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:23.960 called Smart Studio in Madison where they recorded some of 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:27.080 Nirvana and some garbage and um garbage of the band 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:31.560 not garbage, and we couldn't afford anything. So we they 1:03:31.560 --> 1:03:34.280 would get us like a case of sprite and a 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:37.640 case of coke every week, and we were like, instead 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:39.920 of this case of coke and sprite, can you just 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:43.040 get us bread and peanut butter and gella because we 1:03:43.080 --> 1:03:45.480 just have any money, um, and we're sleeping on the floors. 1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:49.520 Um yeah, we kind of like people are like, well 1:03:49.600 --> 1:03:51.720 was there, Like you know, like why are these songs 1:03:51.720 --> 1:03:53.560 and the records like these are the only songs we 1:03:53.600 --> 1:03:55.600 had and these are the only songs we could afford, 1:03:55.760 --> 1:04:00.320 so what is the big break? The big break it is? 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:03.560 So we signed to Fuel by Raman an indie record label. Okay, 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:09.959 how did that happen? Uh? This guy named John Janet. Yeah, 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:11.720 he called us up and was like, I want to 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:14.560 do so he found Yeah, and we and I have 1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:16.919 a book, not a book, but I could make a book, 1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:20.440 a coffee table book of rejection letters from every indie 1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:23.560 label on the planet. Okay, so you were working at 1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:27.160 had you worked Fueled by Raman? We sent them a 1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:30.840 we sent them a yeah, we sent them a demo. Yeah, 1:04:30.880 --> 1:04:33.120 but we didn't really We said he was not responding 1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:35.480 to the demo we heard about you. Otherwise he must 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:37.040 have heard about us from like MP three dot com 1:04:37.160 --> 1:04:41.720 or something like that. Yeah, okay, so he were there 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:44.880 any moments before Janet called you? We said, oh, this 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:47.160 is gonna be the moment, but it turned out it wasn't. 1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:50.760 There were other labels that I really wished we'd I 1:04:50.840 --> 1:04:54.680 really wanted to sign to UM and they just didn't. 1:04:55.240 --> 1:04:57.760 We just didn't sign us. Okay, so Janet calls you 1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:00.680 when you say, yes, he called us and like, I'm 1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:04.520 you know John Janet and and and I've run this 1:05:04.640 --> 1:05:08.200 label with Vinny from Less than Jake and usually the 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:10.520 other bands that are on the label, and this is 1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:12.240 the thing. And we were like, what is this like 1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:14.880 a sky label? I really know what's going on, but 1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:19.720 he was so excited and he was so uh about 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:23.520 magnifying our vision that it seemed right. Um, and so yeah, 1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:28.000 we we signed to this little label from Gainesville. Okay, 1:05:28.040 --> 1:05:30.440 but you ultimately went to Ireland. So was this a 1:05:30.480 --> 1:05:33.080 one record deal? How did you work it out? It was? 1:05:34.080 --> 1:05:37.600 It was a one record deal with an option. They 1:05:37.600 --> 1:05:41.240 could pick up the option for how many records? Oh? 1:05:41.320 --> 1:05:43.320 So I don't know if we I think you know 1:05:43.440 --> 1:05:45.959 at the when we when we upstreamed. I'm sure either 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:49.240 we renegotiated before that record or renegotiated after that record 1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:53.480 for like five or six albums. Okay, so just Fueled 1:05:53.480 --> 1:05:55.880 by Ramen still get a piece of all those records. 1:05:56.680 --> 1:05:59.680 I don't know how their exact money works, but I 1:05:59.680 --> 1:06:04.040 would yes that they got a piece of John got 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:06.280 a piece of like Futures or something like that on 1:06:06.280 --> 1:06:09.240 our next two records or something like that. But I'm 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:12.200 gonna assume it all probably had to change when fuel 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:14.440 by Roman became a part of Atlantic Records. I think 1:06:14.440 --> 1:06:16.720 that it probably had to be because I don't think 1:06:16.760 --> 1:06:18.520 Ireland wants to send them. Okay, when you make the 1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:21.360 deal with fuel by Ramen, you have a real music lawyer. 1:06:23.800 --> 1:06:27.480 Uh we did, Yeah, I think we we we have 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:32.320 the Uh we have the same lawyer. I would think, 1:06:32.400 --> 1:06:34.960 I don't really know, um, but yeah we had a 1:06:34.960 --> 1:06:38.520 real music layer. Because Crush was smart about that. I 1:06:38.520 --> 1:06:40.760 would say, Okay, you were with Crush before you were 1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:42.920 with Janet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they helped us. They were 1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:52.360 pretty instrumental in getting us there. Okay, so the record 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:56.120 comes out. What is the moment you realize this is 1:06:56.120 --> 1:06:59.400 gonna break? Well, that record, I was like, it's not 1:06:59.400 --> 1:07:01.960 gonna break. It felt good. It was good. It was 1:07:02.000 --> 1:07:04.480 really big underground. We were that band that like every 1:07:04.520 --> 1:07:06.800 kid knew and no adult knew, you know. I mean 1:07:06.840 --> 1:07:09.080 like we were the most famous band with kids and 1:07:09.120 --> 1:07:11.080 no adults. Like we were not famous at all, you 1:07:11.120 --> 1:07:12.360 know what I mean, Like you can walk down the 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:15.200 street and you could not We couldn't open a taco bell, 1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:21.320 you know, I mean like it's uh. And then um 1:07:21.480 --> 1:07:25.440 we signed to Island. Uh. We had this song Sugar 1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:28.600 We're going down on a record from under the Cork Tree. 1:07:28.640 --> 1:07:32.720 We basically were like, we want to do a video 1:07:32.760 --> 1:07:34.440 for this song, and we didn't get any airplay, We 1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:38.240 got no ads, nothing. Uh. We did a video for 1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:40.720 this song, Sugar, We're Going Down. We wanted to do 1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:42.800 a video that just all the videos we were pitched 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:46.680 were like party in the backyard, the kids are hanging out, 1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:48.800 they fall in the pool like something, you know, and whatever. 1:07:48.840 --> 1:07:50.600 And it was like, these videos are not going to 1:07:50.640 --> 1:07:52.560 be good. And so we had one video that wasn't 1:07:52.600 --> 1:07:56.120 like that. It was or one um treatment that wasn't 1:07:56.200 --> 1:08:00.439 like that, and we got it was like here boy, 1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:03.000 and it was so bizarre. And so we did that 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:07.320 and our fans were were into it, and they basically 1:08:07.400 --> 1:08:08.840 ran it up t r L and then once it 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:11.200 was on tr L, like this is the way it 1:08:11.240 --> 1:08:12.840 worked at the time, I guess, And so it ran 1:08:12.920 --> 1:08:15.760 up on tr L and then again this is two 1:08:15.760 --> 1:08:20.400 three maybe, and it got added to radio and then 1:08:20.479 --> 1:08:23.320 got crossed and that kind of stuff. How did you 1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:29.360 handle that you personally? Before the record came out, I 1:08:29.400 --> 1:08:30.920 was like, oh my god, is this thing going to 1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:33.760 be all over because we're on the precipice of something 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:40.800 either really big or very small. Um And then yeah, 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:43.599 and then it was like going zero to like light speed, 1:08:43.640 --> 1:08:45.400 you know what I mean. And it was, it was, 1:08:45.439 --> 1:08:51.640 it was. It was strange because I don't even know 1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:54.400 how I handled it because it was also compressed, like 1:08:54.560 --> 1:08:56.360 you know, like it was so many things happened in 1:08:56.439 --> 1:09:00.160 such a little amount of first there must have been excited, man, 1:09:00.439 --> 1:09:03.760 when you realized it was happening. Yeah, But like I think, 1:09:03.800 --> 1:09:05.680 I'm one of those people that's always like, maybe is 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:07.599 it really happening? Kind of you know, I mean, so 1:09:07.680 --> 1:09:10.840 even after it was happening. So at this late date, 1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:15.160 do you have a feeling that maybe you could all disappear? Now? 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:17.920 I have a feeling that we could go on stage 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:21.120 and nobody would care or nobody would be there for sure. 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:23.479 Every time before, let's just as soon, for the sake 1:09:23.520 --> 1:09:26.479 of discussion, you never go on the road again. You've 1:09:26.479 --> 1:09:31.080 got enough money to get to the end, yeah, I think, so, okay, 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:34.479 so let's go back. The band breaks, suddenly you become 1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:38.000 this big entrepreneur. Okay, you're signing other acts, whatever, How 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:44.240 does that start? I always thought of the band and 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:47.600 everything all of it as like something bigger, like the 1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:49.759 thing that I always liked about like punk rock music 1:09:49.880 --> 1:09:52.000 was it was like it was a world you know, 1:09:52.160 --> 1:09:54.759 like you create a world, and you know, like Billy 1:09:54.880 --> 1:09:58.719 Joel and Metallica and all these artists that I really love, 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:02.000 Kanye Out like all these artists I love, created like 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:04.000 something that was bigger that you could kind of like 1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:07.240 go there, you know what I mean. And so that's 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:09.840 what I always thought of it as. And so there 1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:13.439 was merch, but it all felt cohesive to me. Like 1:10:13.479 --> 1:10:15.679 the thing that I like, the thing I've always felt about, 1:10:15.680 --> 1:10:17.960 like the label and and the bands that I've signed, 1:10:18.000 --> 1:10:20.479 is the like the thing that people I like the 1:10:20.520 --> 1:10:22.960 most about Seinfeld is they walk into each other's apartments, 1:10:23.000 --> 1:10:24.479 you know what I mean, Like Cramer could walk in 1:10:24.520 --> 1:10:27.200 at any time. Like it's cool that like they that 1:10:27.360 --> 1:10:31.599 Jerry like them individual individually are interesting, but it's really 1:10:31.640 --> 1:10:33.640 interesting that they're all friends with each other. That's what 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:36.040 I always thought about, like the the bands, you know 1:10:36.080 --> 1:10:39.519 what I mean. Okay, So how did you decide that 1:10:39.560 --> 1:10:43.679 you're gonna have your own label and signed bands? Uh? 1:10:43.840 --> 1:10:47.599 I first heard this band Gym Class Heroes, and thought 1:10:47.600 --> 1:10:50.679 it was super clever and didn't fit in anywhere, And 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.800 I took it to my label, uh, to my Too 1:10:54.560 --> 1:10:56.760 Island at the time, and and I think. They were 1:10:56.840 --> 1:10:59.240 kind of like, I don't this doesn't make any sense, 1:10:59.280 --> 1:11:01.519 and like, would you have to sign a band? You 1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:03.000 know what I mean? So I was like, well, that's 1:11:03.040 --> 1:11:05.080 not gonna work. Uh, And so I went back in 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:10.759 a called Janet and he was Janet is is very 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:13.559 very very good at betting on horses, and he's very 1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:17.160 good at like, um, like I said, magnifying a vision, 1:11:17.200 --> 1:11:19.680 you know what I mean. And so he he and 1:11:19.680 --> 1:11:21.839 he understood all the stuff that I didn't like understand. 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:23.200 Like he was like, we're gonna do an end cap 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:24.960 here and like this is what the you know what 1:11:24.960 --> 1:11:26.720 I mean? And I was like, I don't really like 1:11:26.760 --> 1:11:28.479 I don't want to be I don't I don't care 1:11:28.479 --> 1:11:29.720 about that part of it really, you know. I mean 1:11:29.760 --> 1:11:31.559 I might care about it more than other guys in bands, 1:11:31.600 --> 1:11:34.479 but I don't really care about it. And so he 1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:36.479 was like, yeah, let's sign them together, and so we 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:40.599 signed Jim Class Heroes and then the guys in Panic 1:11:40.640 --> 1:11:43.240 of the Disco um Ryan at the time, one of 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:44.640 the guitarists in the band was kind of like he 1:11:44.720 --> 1:11:47.400 was like, your band sucks to me, and it was 1:11:47.439 --> 1:11:50.080 like and I was like, what what is this? Kid saying, 1:11:50.920 --> 1:11:53.560 and he was like, oh, yeah, check out my band. 1:11:53.880 --> 1:11:55.960 And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go check this 1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:57.960 band out and I'm gonna come back here and tell 1:11:58.040 --> 1:12:02.320 this guy how bad his band is and uh, because 1:12:02.360 --> 1:12:04.760 it was just a human reaction. Um, and I went 1:12:04.800 --> 1:12:07.400 and listened. I was like, this band is like maybe 1:12:07.439 --> 1:12:10.479 one of the best man's I've ever heard, and um 1:12:11.360 --> 1:12:13.320 when they called panic at the disco, they where they 1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:15.840 were they were and how what what were they doing? 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:18.360 Could they tour? No? No, no, they couldn't even play 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:19.680 some of these songs. They never played lives, so they 1:12:19.720 --> 1:12:22.160 couldn't even play they were I went to the rehearsal 1:12:22.160 --> 1:12:24.600 space in Vegas and they were like I was like, 1:12:24.600 --> 1:12:26.120 play this song and they were like, we can't even 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:27.920 play it. We don't even know how, like we don't 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:31.960 even know how to play it. Um. I remember going 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:36.320 to to Brendon the singer's house. He was seventeen or 1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:40.320 eighteen seventeen. He was young, and I was supposed to 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:42.439 talk to his parents, right, and I was supposed to 1:12:42.479 --> 1:12:45.000 tell him that, like, don't worry, it's gonna be all 1:12:45.040 --> 1:12:48.080 gonna be okay, Like what ye are we in there's 1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:53.760 maybe two thousand six, and I'm like sitting here, and 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:57.599 I remember walking into the house and looking and on 1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:00.439 the on the table his family's more and on the 1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:02.960 table there was a book that said Santa and the 1:13:03.040 --> 1:13:05.559 christ Child. And I remember in my head being like, 1:13:06.000 --> 1:13:08.320 I'm fucked. I was like, I am fucked. I have 1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:10.519 no I'm in so far over my head right now. 1:13:10.560 --> 1:13:13.320 I have no idea what to tell these people. And 1:13:13.840 --> 1:13:17.360 we figured it out. Okay, you sign these acts. How 1:13:17.439 --> 1:13:19.800 much did you have to do with the making and 1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:23.599 records and marketing them. I really care about the marketing 1:13:23.600 --> 1:13:27.080 because I think marketing, uh, when done right, can be 1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:30.840 part cohesive with the art, you know. I mean I 1:13:30.920 --> 1:13:36.800 think that you when when when when marketing is done well, 1:13:37.000 --> 1:13:40.040 it feels like it's all part of the same thing. 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:41.800 Like it feels like you're like, oh my god, this 1:13:41.840 --> 1:13:45.639 is like, uh, it doesn't it doesn't. It's not jarring 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:47.759 because it feels like you're part of it. When marketing 1:13:47.840 --> 1:13:50.400 is done poorly, it is like the worst thing on 1:13:50.400 --> 1:13:52.160 the planet, and it feels like you're like, well, why 1:13:52.200 --> 1:13:54.160 are they doing that? This doesn't you know, it doesn't 1:13:54.200 --> 1:13:58.400 feel barnament talking marketing you're you're not talking like in caps, 1:13:58.600 --> 1:14:01.599 You're talking more like a ven events in the big vision, 1:14:01.640 --> 1:14:03.719 and like what is the story we're trying to tell? 1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:07.800 And like what can we do that's gonna be uh counterintuitive? 1:14:07.840 --> 1:14:09.479 And what can we do that like no one else 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:13.920 is doing uh at the time. Um yeah, And I 1:14:13.960 --> 1:14:19.519 think that, like my goal with the bands has always 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:21.360 been to a like the thing the best thing I 1:14:21.479 --> 1:14:23.960 learned from John was to magnify people's vision and like 1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:27.800 and then to tell people to try and tell people 1:14:27.920 --> 1:14:31.000 like you can make any decisions that you want to make, 1:14:31.000 --> 1:14:33.719 because this is your journey and it's gonna be different 1:14:33.720 --> 1:14:38.000 than my journey. But like if you go down and 1:14:38.160 --> 1:14:41.360 close this door or open this door, these doors over 1:14:41.400 --> 1:14:44.320 here will close probably. And my it's been my experience 1:14:44.360 --> 1:14:46.960 that like right now you think that like the only 1:14:47.000 --> 1:14:49.160 thing that matters is through this door, but like all 1:14:49.200 --> 1:14:51.680 these doors that are like way further ahead in the 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:54.519 journey will be closed because of this decision. And like 1:14:54.600 --> 1:14:58.760 it's I think that trying to be someone's coach and 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:02.200 big brother and and cheerleader has been like the most 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:05.240 important part of that and like nurturing that and making 1:15:05.400 --> 1:15:07.360 hoping that people aren't going to make the like big mistakes. 1:15:07.360 --> 1:15:10.960 Okay if this late data you signing bands, oh yeah, yeah, 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:14.000 I mean I'm trying to. I mean it's different now 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:16.200 because like okay, so when we were signing those bands 1:15:16.800 --> 1:15:21.880 at the time, you know, there's no major labels cared 1:15:21.880 --> 1:15:27.559 about any of it, and um, social media wasn't what 1:15:27.640 --> 1:15:29.559 it is like the people that were on social media. 1:15:29.680 --> 1:15:31.720 It's just not like now it's like every people like 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:33.840 that's their jobs, you know or whatever. I think that 1:15:33.960 --> 1:15:40.160 like between like when us are the label and crush 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:42.960 and the team is working really well together, we're very 1:15:43.120 --> 1:15:45.759 very good at taking somebody from zero to eighty thousand 1:15:46.080 --> 1:15:49.280 units or whatever you want to to determine the units by. 1:15:49.479 --> 1:15:51.600 I think major labels are really good, like when you 1:15:51.600 --> 1:15:53.479 need to pour gas on that and you need terrestrial 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:55.800 radio or whatever. But like I don't think that I 1:15:55.800 --> 1:15:59.320 think that they are particularly not suited for going zero 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:02.320 to eighty tho and and I think that now because 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:07.080 streaming is what it is and it's more about having 1:16:07.120 --> 1:16:09.720 bandwidth than anything else. That like you sign everything because 1:16:09.760 --> 1:16:11.639 it's like it doesn't cost you any money and like 1:16:11.960 --> 1:16:14.599 you're getting paid based on the amount of you know, 1:16:14.760 --> 1:16:17.519 the pie you're selling or the amount of pie people 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:21.280 are listening to, you know, And so people are being 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:24.320 signed now like before. Like so our biggest problem at 1:16:24.320 --> 1:16:27.360 the time was that, like people were in bad management situations, 1:16:27.360 --> 1:16:33.280 and that like sometimes was like a really made it difficult, 1:16:33.320 --> 1:16:34.759 you know what I mean, Like when you were signed 1:16:34.760 --> 1:16:36.719 in you're signed to a bad manager and the manager 1:16:36.720 --> 1:16:39.280 wanted to do just had like bad ideas and you 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:40.640 were in a bad deal and there's no way you 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:43.439 were ever gonna make money. That was tough. Now, I mean, 1:16:43.600 --> 1:16:47.680 major labels just signed bands and artists way smaller than 1:16:47.720 --> 1:16:51.639 I think they would and should. So what's the last 1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:56.240 band you signed? We signed this kid? Uh, nothing nowhere. 1:16:56.360 --> 1:17:01.559 Um he's the first of the sound cloud rappers, I 1:17:01.560 --> 1:17:04.880 guess to really go into the you know, I did 1:17:04.920 --> 1:17:09.200 that deal with um Fuel by Ramen in Atlantic. Uh 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:12.839 and and he's like the first of the SoundCloud rappers 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:17.679 too at the time to a bigger deal. And Okay, 1:17:17.680 --> 1:17:20.160 so at this point, you also had a storefront where 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:24.680 you sold ship that's dormant at this point. It is. Yeah, yeah, 1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:27.600 that was in Chicago. It just was super expensive and 1:17:27.680 --> 1:17:29.320 didn't really make a lot of money. But it was 1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:32.519 a fun clubhouse to hang out and okay, and then 1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:35.760 but also online you were selling stuff too. Yeah, but 1:17:35.960 --> 1:17:38.519 you're still doing that. Yeah, yeah I do. I do, 1:17:38.600 --> 1:17:41.519 like a jewelry clothing line online. Yeah, but didn't you 1:17:41.520 --> 1:17:45.000 have a deal with one of the major uh, with 1:17:45.120 --> 1:17:49.600 another company to sell your stuff in their store? Oh yeah, 1:17:49.640 --> 1:17:52.080 maybe I haven't done a couple of those deals the time. 1:17:52.120 --> 1:17:56.400 I guess you know you're not smiling. No, I'm I 1:17:56.439 --> 1:18:02.360 think that any of these things any I've learned a 1:18:02.360 --> 1:18:04.280 lot in the ways that, Like, so we did a 1:18:04.280 --> 1:18:05.880 bar for a long time. So we did a bar 1:18:05.960 --> 1:18:07.559 where we had one in New York, we had one 1:18:07.600 --> 1:18:09.919 in l A, we had one in Chicago, wan in Barcelona, 1:18:10.000 --> 1:18:12.519 and basically it was like we started this bar because 1:18:13.240 --> 1:18:15.479 we would go to clubs and they would like let 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:17.320 me and the band in, but they wouldn't let any 1:18:17.360 --> 1:18:19.519 of our other like goofy friends in, and we were like, 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:21.320 we just want to go somewhere to hang out. Um. 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:24.880 But you learn a lot about like how much you 1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:28.040 want to manage things and how like whether you want 1:18:28.080 --> 1:18:31.080 to be deciding every night, like you need something happening 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:32.519 every night in a bar and you want to if 1:18:32.520 --> 1:18:34.639 you want to be micro managing that and if you're 1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:37.200 not gonna be micro managing it is like finding a 1:18:37.240 --> 1:18:39.519 partner that understands the markets. And I think that that's 1:18:39.520 --> 1:18:41.759 the same thing as like if you do a licensing 1:18:41.760 --> 1:18:46.120 deal or if you do uh clothing, and you know, 1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:50.120 like more and more I meet you know, aspiring um 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:52.960 musicians who want to do all these different things, which 1:18:53.000 --> 1:18:55.599 is cool, Like a lot of them are really cool 1:18:55.640 --> 1:18:57.680 and a lot of them are really big already you 1:18:57.680 --> 1:19:00.080 know or whatever. UM, But I think you have to 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:05.280 be you gotta be careful like who your partners are, 1:19:05.360 --> 1:19:07.800 you know, I mean, I think you have to work 1:19:07.840 --> 1:19:10.000 with people that you know are going to be honest 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:12.519 with you. And I don't know, like I mean, I've 1:19:12.560 --> 1:19:16.599 never had a um a written contract with crush I think, 1:19:16.680 --> 1:19:18.439 you know, I remember like j D told me, like 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:20.400 I don't I don't ever want to be in court 1:19:20.880 --> 1:19:24.360 uh with somebody that I work with. And and that's 1:19:24.400 --> 1:19:25.800 like the thing that makes the most sense to me 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:27.639 is that, like you have to find partners that like 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:30.400 where you understand each other and you understand each other's 1:19:30.400 --> 1:19:32.639 strengths and weaknesses and you try to fill in those cracks. 1:19:32.760 --> 1:19:37.080 So how did the bar end? Oh man? So the bar, so, 1:19:37.160 --> 1:19:40.599 the one that we had in New York was basically 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:44.160 like this tiny, tiny, tiny bar in in Alphabet City 1:19:44.360 --> 1:19:48.080 and it was impossible going to drink when it was filled, 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:51.200 and we had great karaoke there. But basically they would 1:19:51.200 --> 1:19:55.080 send like, uh, a twenty year old undercover police officer 1:19:55.200 --> 1:19:58.479 like one year and would you know, like it's so 1:19:58.520 --> 1:20:00.960 hard listen, I'm not alreading at the door, but like 1:20:01.000 --> 1:20:03.519 obviously like the tabloid headline, it's like that I am, 1:20:03.560 --> 1:20:06.280 you know, but like a thirty thousand dollar ticket can 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:08.200 put you out of business when you're a bar that small, 1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:10.240 you know what I mean? So did you wait? It 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:12.360 never became my bar until it was like in in 1:20:12.400 --> 1:20:15.000 the tabloid headline when it was like served to an 1:20:15.040 --> 1:20:19.600 underage cop, it was my bar, but like otherwise it 1:20:19.640 --> 1:20:22.240 wasn't okay. So what do you think of the tabloids 1:20:22.280 --> 1:20:29.000 and uh and social media discussion today? Um, I mean, 1:20:29.040 --> 1:20:31.080 I think the people are able to use social media 1:20:31.200 --> 1:20:35.920 in a way that, uh, you're able to respond to 1:20:36.000 --> 1:20:37.680 things that are you know, like you're able to like 1:20:38.479 --> 1:20:41.880 like I follow Kim Kardashian and she's able to respond 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:43.840 and be like that's not true. This is true, Like 1:20:43.920 --> 1:20:46.800 this is actually what happened, you know, like Kanye didn't 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:49.200 fall off a horse at Sunday Service. That's not real 1:20:49.320 --> 1:20:50.680 or whatever. You know, like in a way that I 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:54.479 guess you couldn't have before. Um, And I think that, 1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:57.040 like it's interesting because there's like a whole lot of people. 1:20:58.280 --> 1:21:00.320 It's just like again there's like the cow as. I'm 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:02.960 so big between like the people who are like living 1:21:03.720 --> 1:21:06.160 old like mystery and people who are like like the 1:21:06.200 --> 1:21:09.439 new age who film everything. You know, there's just like 1:21:09.479 --> 1:21:12.400 a big divide between them, you know what I mean, 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:15.040 that's clearly like a generational divide. You know, I lived 1:21:15.040 --> 1:21:18.639 next to I used to live next to YouTuber's. Um. 1:21:19.439 --> 1:21:21.479 They were the nicest people that I think that I've 1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:25.240 ever had as neighbors. But like you would go, you 1:21:25.280 --> 1:21:27.719 go to their house and they film like absolutely everything, 1:21:27.760 --> 1:21:29.760 you know, right, Well, you know, most YouTubers burned out 1:21:29.840 --> 1:21:32.880 because they gotta to create that content satiate their audience 1:21:32.920 --> 1:21:36.240 on a regular basis. But you were tabloid fodder when 1:21:36.240 --> 1:21:39.200 you were married to Ashley Simpson. So how did what 1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:49.360 was that experience, Like, Um, it's very difficult to It's 1:21:49.680 --> 1:21:53.120 I think it's really hard to navigate life when there's 1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:57.000 constantly headlines of people being like you're doing this, you're 1:21:57.040 --> 1:21:58.600 doing that, You're not doing that, you know what I mean. Like, 1:21:58.640 --> 1:22:01.280 I think it's until you realize that, like you just 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:04.400 want to you're just gonna be who you are, you 1:22:04.400 --> 1:22:06.040 know what I mean. Like, and it doesn't really matter 1:22:06.160 --> 1:22:08.760 if people take pictures of you, like picking your nose 1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:11.519 or whatever. It is, like you just have to Once 1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:14.760 you come to terms with that, then I think it's 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:19.080 all right. It's interesting, Like I listened to um Leonardo 1:22:19.200 --> 1:22:21.479 and and I don't I'm not close enough with him 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:23.679 to call Leo, I think, but uh and and Brad 1:22:23.720 --> 1:22:25.720 Pitt talking and they were just talking about how like 1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:28.040 he was talking about how like you know, his friends 1:22:28.040 --> 1:22:30.240 always find like you know, like try to find ways 1:22:30.280 --> 1:22:33.040 to game the thing where they'll have they'll he'll they'll say, 1:22:33.080 --> 1:22:34.720 like you put on I'll put on your hat and 1:22:34.760 --> 1:22:36.360 I'll put on the sunglass and I'll walk out, you 1:22:36.360 --> 1:22:38.080 know or whatever, and he's like it just never works, 1:22:38.080 --> 1:22:41.160 and it's like it it doesn't, you know what I mean. 1:22:41.280 --> 1:22:48.000 Like I think that like, uh, that relentless interest in 1:22:48.280 --> 1:22:54.280 what entertainers or whoever do, like you know, like is 1:22:54.760 --> 1:22:57.840 like like I had a guy yesterday who asked me, like, 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:01.240 what my opinion on like the Royal is leaving? And 1:23:01.280 --> 1:23:03.440 I was like, I haven't even really like ever thought 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:05.519 of I don't know why anybody would want my opinion 1:23:05.640 --> 1:23:08.000 because I just like have never even really never for 1:23:08.040 --> 1:23:10.760 you to say something outrageous. I'm sure you know what 1:23:10.800 --> 1:23:15.439 I mean. Um, it's just it's yeah, it's it's it's 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:20.519 super super super bizarre. Like it doesn't it feels like 1:23:20.520 --> 1:23:22.160 you're in a simulation or something like that, you know 1:23:22.160 --> 1:23:25.759 what I mean, Like it doesn't feel real life. Okay, 1:23:25.840 --> 1:23:28.960 So at this late stage, you've achieved so much, but 1:23:29.080 --> 1:23:32.559 is there a dream beyond this? Man, there's always dreams. 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:37.960 There's like you know, I remember our band, Uh, this 1:23:38.000 --> 1:23:40.240 is a dream, an unachieved dream that I don't think 1:23:40.240 --> 1:23:41.720 we can't that I don't think we can achieve. But 1:23:41.760 --> 1:23:43.880 it was this is the way that I think in 1:23:44.000 --> 1:23:47.800 our band things is that I remember being late at 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:48.880 night and I was like, I want to be the 1:23:48.880 --> 1:23:51.679 first band to play on every continent, all five continents, 1:23:52.360 --> 1:23:55.639 emailed to my manager. He goes, it's great, there's seven continents, 1:23:55.680 --> 1:24:04.080 but like, actually it's crazy. Uh and um, so we 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:07.160 went and we took uh. We went and played in Chile, 1:24:07.800 --> 1:24:10.760 and then we took a trip to the southernmost point 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:14.719 of Chile, which is called Punta Arenas, and we basically 1:24:14.720 --> 1:24:17.800 stayed in this town, um, waiting to fly to Antarctica, 1:24:17.880 --> 1:24:19.640 and like we were taking a C one thirty or 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:22.120 something to Antarctica, but it was the runway was never 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:23.880 clear because we came at the very last time you 1:24:23.880 --> 1:24:26.320 could really fly to Antarctica, and we were in this town, 1:24:26.720 --> 1:24:29.360 in this hotel, and like the last interesting thing that 1:24:29.400 --> 1:24:31.120 had kind of happened there was like sheep or something. 1:24:31.160 --> 1:24:32.840 So we were like we were like the Beatles. Our 1:24:32.880 --> 1:24:36.760 hotel was surrounded with people like freaking out, and how 1:24:36.760 --> 1:24:39.400 many people lived there at that time. I think we 1:24:39.439 --> 1:24:40.880 had the whole town outside of us, you know what 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.200 I mean. Like it was actually it was just it 1:24:43.280 --> 1:24:45.160 was big because there was nothing else, you know what 1:24:45.200 --> 1:24:48.479 I mean. Um, And we didn't end up we didn't 1:24:48.560 --> 1:24:49.920 end up being able to make the we didn't end 1:24:50.000 --> 1:24:53.240 up actually being able to ever fly to to Antarctica 1:24:53.479 --> 1:24:55.679 and we never were the first man, I think Metallica 1:24:55.760 --> 1:24:59.120 ended up doing Ittallica did go to Antic, so they 1:24:59.120 --> 1:25:02.519 did that. They were know but like I think to me, 1:25:04.400 --> 1:25:09.839 things like that are are interesting, like the playing places 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:14.360 that we've never been and uh, like that's what's interesting. 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:17.000 And like being and learning from the cultures and being 1:25:17.040 --> 1:25:19.400 able to like infuse that back into the music and 1:25:19.760 --> 1:25:21.800 like that's what's interesting. Those are like the like I 1:25:21.800 --> 1:25:24.360 mean the stadium tour um, like these things are all 1:25:24.400 --> 1:25:28.360 like okay, But you're a multifaceted guy. Dude, what do 1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:31.719 you see yourself? You see yourself as a bass player, 1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:35.280 a lyric writer, member of the band, uh A and 1:25:35.439 --> 1:25:38.400 R guy, how do you see yourself? What's the most 1:25:38.400 --> 1:25:41.280 important thing to you? Oh, it's my the most important 1:25:41.320 --> 1:25:48.519 thing to me, um, besides my family. Um. You know. 1:25:48.560 --> 1:25:51.800 I I always talked to my manager J D H 1:25:52.400 --> 1:25:54.720 and I think that you know, we talked about like 1:25:54.760 --> 1:25:56.720 how his book or my book would be titled like 1:25:56.760 --> 1:26:01.240 My Proximity to Greatness, And it's like I just really 1:26:01.360 --> 1:26:04.160 like being around people and like pouring the gasoline on 1:26:04.200 --> 1:26:06.760 their thing and like seeing their thing happen and be 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:08.400 a part of it. You know what I mean, and 1:26:08.680 --> 1:26:11.760 especially when it's like something that nobody ever thought was 1:26:11.760 --> 1:26:13.320 gonna happen, you know what I mean, or like it 1:26:13.360 --> 1:26:15.719 came out of nowhere, and that's like the most exciting 1:26:15.760 --> 1:26:19.720 to me. And like seeing like you know, Brendan you know, 1:26:19.760 --> 1:26:23.360 backflipping with like Taylor Swift on a you know, like 1:26:23.439 --> 1:26:25.160 I'm like, oh my god, like is this happening? Like 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:27.040 this kid was like in you know, like I was 1:26:27.240 --> 1:26:29.080 looking at Santa and the christ Child at his house 1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:30.800 like thinking like oh my god, like what am I doing? 1:26:30.840 --> 1:26:33.880 You know? I mean, like so those that's for sure 1:26:34.000 --> 1:26:37.799 the most exciting thing to me is like the rooting 1:26:37.800 --> 1:26:39.920 for the underdog when the underdog like gets a hidden 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:43.439 you know. I mean, like that's by far the most interesting. Okay, 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:46.760 you pretty much have access to anything. Your name big 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:50.679 enough opens every door or not. Oh no, I don't 1:26:50.680 --> 1:26:56.040 think so. I think that like so like man, it's 1:26:56.040 --> 1:26:58.360 so funny because I think the access keeps changing as 1:26:58.400 --> 1:26:59.599 you go up, you know what I mean, Like we 1:26:59.680 --> 1:27:05.160 play you know, uh uh President Obama's inaugural ball and 1:27:05.160 --> 1:27:08.320 and oh book that I mean, I guess it probably 1:27:08.320 --> 1:27:11.479 went through c A, you know what I mean, that 1:27:12.240 --> 1:27:14.960 he has seven ball. The the president has seven balls, 1:27:14.960 --> 1:27:17.320 and there was a youth ball and at the youth ball, 1:27:17.320 --> 1:27:19.479 I guess they probably I don't know, I don't know 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:22.120 what the algorithm is, but they got us Usher and 1:27:22.200 --> 1:27:29.120 Kanye okay uh and you know, like we were we 1:27:29.120 --> 1:27:31.599 were at the We were there and they were like, 1:27:32.400 --> 1:27:33.800 there's all kinds of things. They were like, we put 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:36.320 a carpet over the Presidential seal because nobody steps on 1:27:36.360 --> 1:27:39.479 the seal, you know what I mean at all? Okay, 1:27:39.560 --> 1:27:41.120 And I was like, this blows my mind, you know 1:27:41.120 --> 1:27:42.679 what I mean. There's all these things, you know whatever. 1:27:43.200 --> 1:27:47.320 And we were standing there and then you know, President 1:27:47.360 --> 1:27:49.360 Obamas did there standing on the seal and I was like, well, 1:27:49.360 --> 1:27:51.120 I guess, like you know what I mean, like there's 1:27:51.160 --> 1:27:53.000 a little yeah, so there's like levels of all of it, 1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:54.000 you know what I mean. And they were kind of 1:27:54.040 --> 1:27:58.080 like they were like when Potus is in the building, 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:02.040 they were like, if your base brakes, if your techniques 1:28:02.040 --> 1:28:05.320 to run out, don't run out. They're like, that's not 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:08.200 you are a target if that happens, you know, I 1:28:08.200 --> 1:28:09.880 mean like and it was like, oh, so there's like 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:13.360 these points of access that are beyond all of it, 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:15.599 you know what I mean. Okay, Well, that's President United States. 1:28:15.640 --> 1:28:18.920 Especially now in the era of internet cacophony, we have Trump. 1:28:19.000 --> 1:28:21.479 Everybody knows and everybody else is trying to get in. 1:28:22.320 --> 1:28:30.160 But if you wanted to reach Obama, could you okay, 1:28:30.479 --> 1:28:33.839 anybody in the entertainment business your name opened the door anywhere? 1:28:34.160 --> 1:28:37.000 I mean, is there anywhere that you can't go or whatever? 1:28:37.280 --> 1:28:39.560 Or you'd have to use your connections? Oh that I 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:42.439 don't have to use my connections. Maybe there's people that 1:28:42.520 --> 1:28:47.439 like in my phone that I like, Yeah, I have 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:52.360 Drake in my phone as a number as a name 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:55.520 to make sure that if I'm overserved at a restaurant 1:28:55.840 --> 1:29:00.000 that I don't accidentally or not accidentally text him and say, like, dude, 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:02.800 you're the best fucking lyricist of all time, because I'm like, 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:04.479 I don't want to be that guy, you know what 1:29:04.520 --> 1:29:07.800 I mean? Okay, So who are you? The type of 1:29:07.800 --> 1:29:11.880 guy who hangs with famous people, the people that I 1:29:11.920 --> 1:29:14.240 think are famous, like that that are famous to me 1:29:14.360 --> 1:29:15.760 because I go, I'm telling you, I'm the guy that 1:29:15.760 --> 1:29:17.519 corrected all of my eighties toys and stuff like that. 1:29:17.520 --> 1:29:19.519 I want to meet, like Mr t and stuff. Like that, 1:29:19.600 --> 1:29:23.680 you know what I mean? Like, uh, I guess what 1:29:23.720 --> 1:29:27.639 I'm asking is certainly when you move up the ranks. Okay, 1:29:27.880 --> 1:29:30.200 forget what the hoi POLOI thinks. Oh you know, these 1:29:30.200 --> 1:29:32.880 are famous people. These people it's like they say, why 1:29:32.880 --> 1:29:36.040 a rock stars very models because they have the same schedule. 1:29:36.160 --> 1:29:38.120 They get up at noon, go to bedefrood in the morning. 1:29:38.240 --> 1:29:40.880 They don't have regular commitments. So as you get closer 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:43.120 and closer to the belly of the beast, you find 1:29:43.200 --> 1:29:47.240 other like minded people. So there are some people despite that, 1:29:47.439 --> 1:29:50.519 who are still singular, supposedly Fred Astaire, you know, droving 1:29:50.520 --> 1:29:53.280 the limo alone. Then there are other people, Laura's being 1:29:53.280 --> 1:29:56.000 an example. He knows everybody and hangs with everybody. I 1:29:56.040 --> 1:29:59.599 love hanging with everybody. I love meeting. I do believe 1:29:59.640 --> 1:30:02.240 in meeting your heroes or people that you think are cool. 1:30:02.280 --> 1:30:04.360 And if you don't like them, then that's cool. You 1:30:04.400 --> 1:30:07.040 just learned something about them that doesn't change the music 1:30:07.160 --> 1:30:09.920 or the movie to me. Uh. But I think that 1:30:09.960 --> 1:30:12.680 there are levels of access that are beyond you know 1:30:12.680 --> 1:30:17.360 what I mean, Like, I think that like, um, you 1:30:17.400 --> 1:30:19.640 can hang with these like so like you know, like 1:30:19.640 --> 1:30:21.360 you go to parties that there's like tech guys that 1:30:21.520 --> 1:30:25.160 like the billionaire tech guys or whatever, Like they're not 1:30:25.400 --> 1:30:29.799 giving me access to invest when they invest in companies. 1:30:29.800 --> 1:30:31.519 They're not calling me up and being like, listen, we 1:30:31.560 --> 1:30:34.360 got this group together, were the a group and like 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:36.360 this is what we get. Like I don't get that 1:30:36.360 --> 1:30:38.400 called like I don't have that access, and I don't 1:30:38.400 --> 1:30:40.120 know what that if that access comes with money, or 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:43.280 if that access comes with success within tech or whatever 1:30:43.320 --> 1:30:48.000 it is. I mean, I I definitely can call any 1:30:48.000 --> 1:30:50.559 of those guys and probably go to like Katsuya with them, 1:30:50.560 --> 1:30:53.000 but it's like a different level of access to me, 1:30:53.160 --> 1:30:55.320 you know what I mean? Like I don't when I 1:30:55.360 --> 1:30:58.400 go and pitch something, I don't even really want to 1:30:58.439 --> 1:31:00.320 pitch something to somebody who can't green I did in 1:31:00.360 --> 1:31:03.200 the room, like if you if the guy can't make 1:31:03.200 --> 1:31:05.000 the decision, I don't want to talk to right. It's 1:31:05.000 --> 1:31:07.759 not it's just not really were like this town is 1:31:07.840 --> 1:31:10.240 a town where everybody takes meetings about everything and nothing 1:31:10.280 --> 1:31:14.559 ever happens. Makes me crazy. Okay, So what do you 1:31:14.600 --> 1:31:18.439 think about the music today? The like, what do I 1:31:18.479 --> 1:31:21.800 think about how it sounds? Or No, we're in an era. 1:31:21.960 --> 1:31:24.280 I mean this brings this goes into the other element 1:31:24.320 --> 1:31:28.160 that I referenced earlier. One if you go to streaming 1:31:28.280 --> 1:31:32.719 Spotify top fifty, generally speaking all hip hop, a little 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:37.240 pop okay, And even though there are outlets for other sounds, 1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:42.000 they have a fraction of the mind share, and we 1:31:42.040 --> 1:31:44.040 can also say a fraction of the plays. But it 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:48.639 gets so complicated that break there. Then in addition, many people, 1:31:49.439 --> 1:31:51.920 uh you reference this a little bit earlier, they're really 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:55.559 interested in becoming a brand. The music is just a 1:31:55.720 --> 1:32:00.800 vehicle to sell ship, become famous, etcetera, so irrelevant of 1:32:00.880 --> 1:32:05.080 the music itself. What do you think about that? I mean, 1:32:05.120 --> 1:32:10.479 I think that it's all of these things have always existed, 1:32:10.479 --> 1:32:13.080 whether it's people who put billboards up of themselves or 1:32:13.160 --> 1:32:15.040 their movies or whatever. It's just now we have like 1:32:15.120 --> 1:32:17.920 more of a window into these people actually doing it 1:32:17.960 --> 1:32:21.320 in real time. And we've seen people who found success 1:32:21.479 --> 1:32:24.200 doing that, you know, or doing quote unquote nothing, you 1:32:24.240 --> 1:32:26.240 know what I mean, Like we've seen it, so you 1:32:26.280 --> 1:32:28.280 know that it's attainable. So I think people think that 1:32:28.320 --> 1:32:30.800 they can they can do it as well. I mean, 1:32:30.840 --> 1:32:32.640 it does feel like at some point some of that 1:32:32.680 --> 1:32:35.040 bubble will burst and people will be known for some 1:32:35.080 --> 1:32:37.760 of their talents. Um more so, and I think that 1:32:37.800 --> 1:32:43.559 the people listen. I think that, like whatever it is, 1:32:44.880 --> 1:32:47.120 whatever reality show it is, and I like all this stuff. 1:32:47.160 --> 1:32:49.720 I watch all this stuff. But whatever reality show it is, 1:32:49.800 --> 1:32:53.120 or whatever tech game it is, or whatever thing it is, 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:55.800 like no one when you get your heartbroken, you don't 1:32:55.800 --> 1:32:57.720 go and go like, well, thank god I opened that 1:32:57.720 --> 1:32:59.600 app because I always you know, like that helped me. 1:32:59.680 --> 1:33:01.080 Or like you have the best day of your life, 1:33:01.240 --> 1:33:04.920 You're still watching films and listening to songs, and you 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:06.160 know what I mean, Like those are the things that 1:33:06.200 --> 1:33:09.040 I think that, like you set your life by, like 1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:13.599 these big moments in your life by um, I think 1:33:13.600 --> 1:33:14.840 that there's room for all of it. I do think 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:16.160 we live in the hip hop world. I mean, I 1:33:16.160 --> 1:33:18.720 think you're crazy if you don't think that. Um. I 1:33:18.800 --> 1:33:21.439 go to my kids school and every kid is trying 1:33:21.439 --> 1:33:23.200 to be Kanye Fresh, you know what I mean, And 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:26.400 I see see that happening in real time. I think 1:33:26.400 --> 1:33:30.800 that there's the pie is super super super big, So 1:33:30.840 --> 1:33:33.320 there's room for really all of it, you know. I mean, 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:36.320 like I think that, but it's very hard to get noticed. Yes, 1:33:36.439 --> 1:33:39.760 so getting noticed now. This is the thing that I 1:33:39.800 --> 1:33:41.840 think with getting noticed now is that you have to 1:33:41.880 --> 1:33:44.920 be unashamed. I had these kids come up to me 1:33:44.960 --> 1:33:47.400 in a parking lot, uh the other day in Van 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:49.920 Nuys at the Van Nuys Laser tag and they come 1:33:49.960 --> 1:33:51.320 up to me in the parking lot and they were like, 1:33:51.720 --> 1:33:53.479 listen to this thing. I listened to it. I liked it, 1:33:53.479 --> 1:33:54.800 and we ended up having to talk. And I think 1:33:54.840 --> 1:33:57.479 you have to be you have to be cool with 1:33:57.520 --> 1:33:58.720 doing that, you know what I mean, Like you have 1:33:58.800 --> 1:34:00.920 to go out to people and like get them to 1:34:01.000 --> 1:34:05.120 notice you. Um. But I also think that it's super 1:34:05.160 --> 1:34:08.360 super important to be true to who you are. Like 1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:12.640 chasing just doesn't work. Okay, let's assume they give the 1:34:12.680 --> 1:34:15.719 tape to you, the CD that whatever, the file, and 1:34:15.960 --> 1:34:18.920 you think it's good. You and me both know there's 1:34:18.920 --> 1:34:22.280 an occasional thing you here we go. This is stratospheric. 1:34:22.680 --> 1:34:24.760 I heard it once. This is gonna go. It's just 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:28.840 about assembling the team. But I listened to like x 1:34:29.000 --> 1:34:32.280 MU on the satellite or I'll go through playlist on Spotify, 1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:36.320 and I say, well, that's pretty good. But unless someone 1:34:36.439 --> 1:34:39.800 puts some gasoline on it. Chances I could be the 1:34:39.800 --> 1:34:43.600 only person who heard it. So let's just assume you 1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:49.280 have a team together, okay, and you're uh, forget hip hop, 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:51.960 it's a world done to itself, another kind of music. 1:34:52.280 --> 1:34:57.680 How do you set about getting yourself noticed by a 1:34:57.800 --> 1:35:02.280 label or by the world at world at law. I 1:35:02.320 --> 1:35:07.599 think you have to you have to do. You have 1:35:07.680 --> 1:35:10.799 to be making great music. You have to make great songs. 1:35:10.840 --> 1:35:15.960 And I think that still great songs can stand on 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:17.280 their own. Like you look, and if you don't have 1:35:17.320 --> 1:35:18.920 great songs, then I don't know, it's a different story. 1:35:19.280 --> 1:35:21.439 But like if you look at a band like Fun, 1:35:22.200 --> 1:35:24.200 uh or you you know, like there's these bands that 1:35:24.240 --> 1:35:26.720 come along and you're like, it's great, you know, I 1:35:26.720 --> 1:35:29.240 mean it's for whatever reason, like it's great. It feels 1:35:29.240 --> 1:35:30.960 like a different era, but it feels kind of like 1:35:31.000 --> 1:35:34.160 this era at the same time. Um, and I don't 1:35:34.439 --> 1:35:36.760 and I don't. If you don't have greatness, then there's 1:35:36.760 --> 1:35:39.760 gonna be And and besides the greatness, there's so much 1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:42.360 of Like is that you have to be ready to 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:44.120 swing the bat when you step up to the plate, 1:35:44.200 --> 1:35:45.439 Like when you get a chance to step out to 1:35:45.479 --> 1:35:47.720 the plate, there's deliver. Yeah, there's so many people that 1:35:47.840 --> 1:35:49.720 like they're waiting for their chance, waiting for the chance. 1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:51.479 They get their chance, and they don't do it, you 1:35:51.479 --> 1:35:52.559 know what I mean, Like you can don't do it 1:35:52.560 --> 1:35:57.200 because they funk up, or they're scared, or they they 1:35:57.240 --> 1:35:59.720 second guess themselves and or they're so nervous about like 1:35:59.720 --> 1:36:01.880 their friends are like that's selling out, and so they 1:36:01.920 --> 1:36:04.280 do the wrong you know. Like there's so many versions 1:36:04.320 --> 1:36:05.680 of it, you know that, And I feel like I've 1:36:05.720 --> 1:36:09.800 seen so many versions of it. Um. The truth is 1:36:09.720 --> 1:36:12.759 it's super hard, Like it's more democratic than ever because 1:36:12.760 --> 1:36:15.559 everybody can make music and there's so much out there. 1:36:16.040 --> 1:36:18.360 It's so hard, Like how does music last anymore? How 1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:20.599 did things stay? You know what I mean? How did things? 1:36:21.120 --> 1:36:22.880 They have to be either really great or really terrible 1:36:22.920 --> 1:36:24.519 to say, and even if they're really terrible, they kind 1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:26.360 of go away, you know what I mean. To stay, 1:36:26.760 --> 1:36:28.920 it has to be so great and it has to 1:36:28.960 --> 1:36:32.400 the Other thing is even the most the biggest people 1:36:32.439 --> 1:36:36.400 on the chart, fewer people know them than ever before. Yes, 1:36:36.760 --> 1:36:38.960 it's harder to get mind here at large and say 1:36:39.040 --> 1:36:43.200 unless you're literally president something else which is well publicized. 1:36:43.200 --> 1:36:46.519 I'm gonna ask you about it. Supposedly you're bipolar. Is 1:36:46.560 --> 1:36:54.800 that true. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was diagnosed years ago. Um. Yeah, 1:36:54.840 --> 1:36:57.120 and it's something that like for a long time, I 1:36:57.200 --> 1:37:01.960 tried to self medicate, um, and that didn't really work 1:37:01.960 --> 1:37:03.280 out that well, you know what I mean. Like I 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:07.599 think I went into the I think that I went 1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:10.120 into the idea that like I didn't need talk therapy 1:37:10.160 --> 1:37:11.679 and I could just figure it out on my own. 1:37:11.800 --> 1:37:15.360 I could use either alcohol or pills and I could 1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:17.000 kind of figure it out, you know, when I was 1:37:17.000 --> 1:37:18.920 on tour and I didn't want to like suppress the 1:37:18.960 --> 1:37:22.880 creativity and that kind of thing. Um. But I think 1:37:22.960 --> 1:37:27.080 since having kids, I kind of wanted to be I 1:37:27.120 --> 1:37:32.360 want what I wanted to be present, and I wanted to, um, 1:37:32.600 --> 1:37:34.599 be able to like kid around and not be kind 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:38.720 of ruled by my moods and you know, and and 1:37:38.720 --> 1:37:40.679 and at the same time also be like it's okay 1:37:40.720 --> 1:37:42.400 for you to like feel not great, you know, I mean, 1:37:42.439 --> 1:37:44.400 like it's okay, any of this stuff is okay. It's 1:37:44.400 --> 1:37:49.000 all um. And so I mean since then, I've found 1:37:49.040 --> 1:37:50.760 ways to have like you know, like to to do 1:37:50.920 --> 1:37:56.000 therapy and to talk and to know that like, just 1:37:56.080 --> 1:37:59.040 because you're feeling better, it's not gonna like stifle your 1:37:59.040 --> 1:38:02.720 creativity that kind of thing. What is the number one 1:38:02.760 --> 1:38:06.799 thing or two things you learned in therapy? The therapy 1:38:06.840 --> 1:38:11.000 never ends really that you're tell my girlfriends, yeah, that 1:38:11.040 --> 1:38:13.200 you're never cured, you know, like you just it's not 1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:18.000 you know what I mean? Um? And I think that 1:38:18.080 --> 1:38:22.439 the other thing that I learned, um, but it's harder 1:38:22.439 --> 1:38:24.400 to apply, is that you've got to be kind to yourself. 1:38:24.439 --> 1:38:26.760 It's it's hard to be I think that. Give me 1:38:26.760 --> 1:38:30.280 an example, being mean to yourself, being too hard on yourself, 1:38:30.280 --> 1:38:33.320 whether you're doing like little like whether it's like little 1:38:33.360 --> 1:38:35.400 things as far as like when you're playing a sport 1:38:35.479 --> 1:38:37.400 or something and you're like I suck and like I 1:38:37.439 --> 1:38:39.880 won't be good, or like my you know, my band's 1:38:39.880 --> 1:38:41.519 not signed or whatever it is, you know, like all 1:38:41.560 --> 1:38:43.320 the you know, like I think that people are not 1:38:43.439 --> 1:38:45.759 particularly kind to themselves because we live in a world 1:38:45.760 --> 1:38:47.680 where you we live in a really fake world, you 1:38:47.720 --> 1:38:49.320 know what I mean, Like where people think that everybody 1:38:49.320 --> 1:38:52.719 else's life is awesome and you feel super fomo about 1:38:52.800 --> 1:38:55.080 everything and it's not real, you know what I mean, 1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:57.559 Like it's like it's not real, I promise, Like all 1:38:57.600 --> 1:39:00.479 these people, everybody in my phone and every anybody, like 1:39:00.520 --> 1:39:02.400 all these people have like bad days and I do 1:39:02.520 --> 1:39:06.240 really respect that. Like people like kid Cutty and and 1:39:06.360 --> 1:39:09.800 Kanye and whoever, like jay Z like have spoken you know, 1:39:09.840 --> 1:39:12.880 like it's aside from the really young rappers have like 1:39:12.960 --> 1:39:15.800 spoken out and talked about like the the idea that 1:39:15.840 --> 1:39:18.600 like everybody kind of has, like this mental health is 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:20.599 something that everybody deals with because I think that's it's 1:39:20.680 --> 1:39:24.160 really important and we can still live like these aspirational lives. 1:39:24.200 --> 1:39:28.280 But like there's no like if you're not whole before 1:39:28.280 --> 1:39:29.880 you go into it, it's not gonna fill the whole, 1:39:29.920 --> 1:39:31.479 you know what I mean, Like it's not gonna there's 1:39:31.520 --> 1:39:34.080 not like a whole theory about that that a lot 1:39:34.120 --> 1:39:36.880 of you know, going back to the pre social media era, 1:39:37.160 --> 1:39:38.519 you have a lot of guys who were not who 1:39:38.520 --> 1:39:42.120 are socially awkward, and they felt if they wrote hit songs, 1:39:42.120 --> 1:39:45.880 their lives would work. And when they found out it 1:39:45.960 --> 1:39:48.760 didn't make their lives work, they could write anymore. It's 1:39:48.760 --> 1:39:51.040 for sure, I mean, and for sure it doesn't make 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:54.280 you It doesn't like you're it's like there's a you know, 1:39:54.320 --> 1:39:57.280 I'm like a I'm like a total movie geek, you 1:39:57.280 --> 1:40:00.760 know whatever, more than anything. And uh, you know, like 1:40:00.800 --> 1:40:02.920 there's a moment in Empire strikes Back where like looks 1:40:03.000 --> 1:40:05.280 like going in this like cave of darkness or whatever, 1:40:05.320 --> 1:40:07.400 and he's like, don't my lightsaber and you know, just 1:40:07.479 --> 1:40:09.840 like you only bring what you you take in with you, 1:40:09.840 --> 1:40:11.200 you know, I mean, you don't need it basically, and 1:40:11.200 --> 1:40:13.200 he brings it in anyway and then fights a version 1:40:13.200 --> 1:40:16.680 of himself spoiler whatever. But it's true in life, you 1:40:16.680 --> 1:40:18.160 know what I mean. Like it's like there's none of 1:40:18.160 --> 1:40:20.160 these like when you come out the other side, like 1:40:20.240 --> 1:40:23.160 you'll have different experiences. But I don't think you like 1:40:23.240 --> 1:40:25.320 it doesn't it doesn't feel the whole Like you gotta 1:40:25.320 --> 1:40:26.720 figure that out on your own, you know what I mean. 1:40:27.000 --> 1:40:30.360 And do you take medication now? I don't take medication now, 1:40:30.400 --> 1:40:34.200 but I do a lot of therapy. Okay, someone who 1:40:34.200 --> 1:40:38.759 does a lot of therapy themselves. How much therapy is that? Uh? 1:40:39.240 --> 1:40:42.439 Probably twice a week? Okay? How long with the same person? 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:47.400 Five years? No? Four years now? Maybe? And does your 1:40:47.400 --> 1:40:51.679 wife go to she does not? No, no, no, she 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:57.360 she is probably the of the more level people that 1:40:57.960 --> 1:41:00.240 I don't know whatever. People are on their own, but 1:41:00.600 --> 1:41:03.599 there was sometimes you're interacting in a relationship and you've 1:41:03.640 --> 1:41:06.960 gained these insights and therapy. Are you ever frustrated that 1:41:07.040 --> 1:41:13.040 your wife doesn't have the same insights? Um? I mean, 1:41:13.080 --> 1:41:15.400 I think in arguments you get frustrated about everything. But 1:41:15.680 --> 1:41:17.960 I think that there's like a danger in like being 1:41:18.000 --> 1:41:20.200 like I've I've read this, or I learned that you 1:41:20.280 --> 1:41:23.759 can't say that we know, but I'm interacting forget significant others, 1:41:23.960 --> 1:41:26.040 and you see people acting that a certain way and go, 1:41:26.400 --> 1:41:28.320 holy sh it. If they had a little therapy, they'd 1:41:28.360 --> 1:41:30.639 never act that way and it would work out better 1:41:30.680 --> 1:41:34.559 for them. I think I see stuff where people are 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:39.320 freaking out about the wrong thing all the time, Like, um, 1:41:39.360 --> 1:41:46.240 like you'll be people will be like like mad, they're 1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:48.160 broke because they spend all their money on the shoes, 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:53.200 but like they want the people to think they live 1:41:53.200 --> 1:41:54.760 in the bowler house, but they're spending the money on 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:56.679 the shoes, so they're never gonna get to the bowler house. 1:41:56.720 --> 1:41:59.160 And like I'm always like, I mean that's just like 1:41:59.200 --> 1:42:02.400 one specific thing. It like sometimes it feels like if 1:42:02.400 --> 1:42:04.240 you work through things in therapy, you can see like 1:42:04.280 --> 1:42:07.760 the bigger picture for yourself, you know what I mean, Um, yeah, 1:42:07.800 --> 1:42:09.559 because I mean it can be otherwise it's like super 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:11.479 frustrating and it feels like you're going through life and 1:42:11.520 --> 1:42:13.439 you don't like you don't see like it's you're in 1:42:13.439 --> 1:42:15.519 the matrix, you know, and there's other people who are 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:17.760 like seeing all the numbers and you're just not seeing it. 1:42:17.800 --> 1:42:19.800 And I've definitely felt like I've been on both sides 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:23.800 of that. Okay, Pete, this is being fantastic, has been fantastic. 1:42:24.160 --> 1:42:26.599 Thanks so much for sitting here telling me all. Your 1:42:26.640 --> 1:42:30.360 story's being so opens. Okay, until next time. This is 1:42:30.400 --> 1:42:31.200 Bob left Us