WEBVTT - #309 Jason Flom with Jace Washington 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.040 On April twenty ninth, two thousand and seven, two masked 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.920 gunmen entered a trailer home occupied by a group of 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.560 undocumented workers in Slide Down, Louisiana and demanded their cash. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.840 When Jose Carlos Martinez Carpio didn't comply, he was fatally 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.680 shot and a gunman fled in a Chevy Tahoe. The 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.960 witnesses described a gunman as two black men around five 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.560 eight to five ten with no tattoos. Two men were 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.080 reported disposing of a gun outside of a Chevy Tahoe, 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.839 and testing confirmed that that gun was the murder weapon. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.240 The investigation led to seventeen year old Glenn Carter, who 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.720 confessed to the crime in exchanged for leniency, saying that 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.080 his accomplice was a guy named E. Police approached one 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.000 of Carter's known associates, Ezra Cooper, who offered a trade 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.040 information about two more assailants for leniency. But in a 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:01.360 crime involving only two assailants, wasn't such lies just be ignored, 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.920 especially when those lies change repeatedly to adapt a new evidence. 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.080 When two different sets of facts were needed to convict 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.400 the actual purpose and these other two guys, A judge 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.640 would never let that slide, right, you would think, but 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:33.520 this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.920 we're headed to the incarceration capital of the most incarcerated 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.440 nation in the world, and of course I'm talking about Louisiana. 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.000 And today's case involves four men convicted separately for the 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.040 same crime. Two were admittedly guilty, while the other two 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.760 were wrongfully convicted, and each conviction involved a slightly or 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:58.280 entirely different set of quote unquote facts. And we hope 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.880 for justice to be served for both of the wrongly 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:06.360 convicted men. One of them is with us today, Jase Washington, 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.960 Thank you so much for joining us. All yeah, we 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.720 appreciate it. And with him his peers advocate Izia Free, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.760 who was alerted to this insane injustice while during COVID 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.560 taking a break from law school writing articles about the 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.640 criminal legal system. Now she just passed the bar, but 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.920 instead of following the corporate law route that she had 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.400 originally charted and planned for herself, she's diving into her 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.840 very first criminal case pro bono. So, Izzy, welcome to 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.959 the show. Thank you so Jase. Before we launch into 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.320 everything that's wrong with the criminal legal system in Louisiana, 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.400 especially in Saint Tamminy Parish, and your case in particular, 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:47.880 we'd like to get to know you a bit well. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.280 I was born in Probley, Louisiana. My mother and my 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:55.600 father separated when I was younger, so I had kind 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.000 of been going back and forth between them and wait 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.000 to see permanent my fall the Ondell and we'll playing 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:07.760 a lot of sports baseball, basketball, football, or Leydon. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.240 And I got a skateboardings so you were living a 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.480 very active lifestyle and Slide Dell, Louisiana with your dad. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.640 And to make better sense of this story, our audience 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.320 might want to take a look at Slide Dell on 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.079 a map. Now, most people are familiar with New Orleans, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.000 of course, which is on the south side of Lake 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.120 Pontre Train. Slide Dell, on the other hand, is just 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.639 across the lake to the northeast from New Orleans at 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.400 another fifteen minutes east to Long Eye ten brings you 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.360 right into Mississippi. If you go west over the north 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.360 side of Lake Pontre Train, you go further into Louisiana, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.200 where Jace used to go to a skate park. So 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.520 skateboarding was big for you as was basketball. Right, How 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:44.120 tall are you? 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:46.800 I'm about four. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.560 So six three sixty four definitely not around five to nine. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.840 Along with a number of other physical characteristics, I should 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.560 have disqualified you as a suspect in this crime, and 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.040 also as evidenced by your squeaky clean record prior to this, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.160 if I understand correctly, you had never been in trouble 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.920 with the law in a place where I understand it's 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.200 a difficult maze to navigate for a young black man 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:11.880 just to emerge unscathed. 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.000 Right, I've payed out of trouble that wasn't in my faith. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:19.200 Being in Saint Kamney Tarandeine in Louisiana is a very 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:25.400 very peculiar situation for young black people, especially young black males. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:31.400 You have higher chances of being disadvantaged by the system 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.080 coming out and scathed. It's rather hard whether you're a 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.719 terrible person, a troublemaker, or you're not. I was not. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.680 No, you were not not even a smudge on your record. 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.080 You are a great student athlete who simply had one 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:48.880 unfortunate acquaintance. And we're going to get to that in 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.560 a minute, but first, in Louisiana from the Post Reconstruction 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.720 era straight on through to a ballid INITIAI of the past. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.920 In twenty eighteen, Jase and so many others, countless others 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:02.000 were or could have been convicted by a non unanimous jury, 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.279 first by a jury of get this nine out of twelve. 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.359 Then they changed it too. Eventually they changed it to 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:13.280 ten out of twelve. And the reason I don't want 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.480 to insult anybody's intelligens because you probably already figured it out. 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.839 So they could disenfranchise black jurors and to make use 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.600 of the Thirteenth Amendment slavery loophole as punishment for a crime, 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.800 whether the person was guilty or not. Now, in covering 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.760 this case, I came upon a person who helped to 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.320 organize that twenty eighteen ballot initiative. She's very active in 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.359 Saint Tammany and remembers Jason's trial. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.680 Well, my name is Belinda Parker Brown. I'm with Louisiana 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.920 United International, with a civil constitutional human rights organization that 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.680 focus on the injustice and the criminal justice system. Our 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:57.000 organization is responsible for nicknaming this racist, unconstitutional Jim Crow law, 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:01.320 this non unanimous jury verdict. Nicknamed it ten to two. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:03.960 You know, I was so happy to see that happen 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.360 during the twenty eighteen mid terms. But here we are, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.120 just after the twenty twenty two midterms, in which there 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.200 were ballid issues all over the country where voters were 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.160 given the opportunity to end the Thirteenth Amendment slavery loophole 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.159 in their states, and that measure was approved by the 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.640 way and all of the other states that voted on 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.920 it except for one, Louisiana. But Louisiana is not alone, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.599 far from it and still benefiting from slave labor. And 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.640 it needs to stop in every state, especially when you 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.719 have entire parishes or counties in this country seemingly devoted 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.160 to pumping out one wrongful conviction after another. And of course, 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.280 no one is more vulnerable to the machinery of our 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.279 criminal legal system than the poor. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.960 They wind up taking a plea to things that they 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.040 did not do. And that's what they were doing here 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:55.440 in Saint Tammany, forcing, threatening, badgering young black men to 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.240 take pleas to things that they did not do, just 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:03.360 because they could not afford attorney. And because of that, 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:09.880 the lead district attorney, Walter Reed, nicknamed this parish Saint 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.600 Tammany Saint slammony, and that became something that they'd celebrated 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.360 here in this paragh, especially when the reelections and all 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.360 of that stuff would come around. You know, they was 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.560 tough on crime. And you know if you come over 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.000 here with your chie wei's and your dreadlocks, and you 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.000 know we're gonna get you, We're gonna lock you up 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:32.960 and throw the key away. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.920 Right. I read the quote that I believe you're referring to, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.400 and at first I couldn't believe it was real because 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.480 of just the naked racism of it. It was from 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.440 the Saint Tammany Sheriff Sheriff Jack Strain, and this is 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.160 the guy who had been in powered there since nineteen 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.200 ninety five. He was running for reelection in twenty ten, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.360 just after Jason's conviction, and on the campaign trail he said, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.240 and this is a direct quote, he said, for some reason, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.680 New Orleans chooses to coddle criminals in that area that 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.080 tend to get away with a great deal. End quote. 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.760 And first off, No Orleans Parish between Harry Connock Senior 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.600 and Leon Canazaro was notorious. But back to the quote 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.120 he said, quote, we will not coddle that trash in 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.400 Saint Tammany Parish. If you're going to walk the streets 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.760 with dreadlocks and chewy hairstyles, then you can expect to 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.600 get a visit from a sheriff's deputy. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.480 Everybody knew who he was talking about. It was the 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.440 most profound racial sickness that can come out of a 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:35.280 person's mouth that really, you know, inspired me to begin 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.560 to protest against the sheriff's jail. It's like a god 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:40.800 forsaken hellhole. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:41.640 You know. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.720 People were being beat and raped and committing so called suicide. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.440 And he had something that we nicknamed them the squirrel cages. 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.440 These squirrel cages were these three by three or four 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.600 by four foot cells. I mean they were like phone boots, basically, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.280 nowhere to move, just you could just stand still pretty much, 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:01.800 and of course no plumbing. 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.520 In these squirrel cages. They would defecate on themselves. They 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.480 would put them in their butt naked for weeks. You know, 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.520 people would just say, okay, I'll do whatever you want 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.800 me to do. I'll say it, you know, I just 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:15.480 want to get this. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:19.160 Over with, and using torture tactics like these pretty much 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.960 insures that law enforce will get whatever statement they want 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.600 to fix a rig a case. So add to that 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.920 to ninety nineimus jury verdicts, and you've got a system 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:32.080 fixed to maintain a ninety eight percent conviction rate. These 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.840 are the tactics that they used in Jas's case, and 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.200 we'll get to that in a bit. So, Belinda, after 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.000 Jason had already gone to Prisident and Sheriff's strain had 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.840 made these comments while campaigning, your organization had taken to 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.480 the streets to protest. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:50.719 Doing the protest on public property, they came out and 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.120 told us to get off of their land. And at 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.079 that particular time, my youngest son, because he was videotaping 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.320 for us at that protest, they the arrested him and 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.000 put him inside of one of those squirrel cages. And 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.840 literally that put the gasoline on my fire to go 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.400 after these people for the wrongdoing. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.760 So if you take nothing else away from this story, 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.400 it's that you shouldn't fuck with Belinda. So, the two 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.120 people most responsible for Jason's wrongful conviction and countless others, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.320 the DA Walter Reid, got convicted of a number of 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.400 financial crimes, and from what I understand, those were the 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.480 ones that the FBI could make stick. But the sheriff, well, 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:34.280 I'm gonna let you tell. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.800 It, Jack Strain. He would spend the rest of his 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.920 life in prison. This sheriff was just a very sick, 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:41.680 sick man. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:42.680 You know. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.160 As an organizer, you know, people would come to me 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.040 with these stories and I would like try to vet 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.320 what they're saying. After we dug up everything that we 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.439 possibly could on him. And it was over thirty three 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.959 witnesses that was coming forth saying that the sheriff was raped, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.360 been people inside of the jail. He was charged with incests, 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.959 raping and molesting his own family members. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.160 It's an absolute horror show, and it somehow gets worse. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.839 This sheriff was also brought up on bribery charges. They 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:19.400 were privatizing the work release program basically slave trading under 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.840 a different name, and he was getting kickbacks from those 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:31.160 contending to take it private. Just it's unreal. Meanwhile, of 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.160 course he was out there putting these people in squirrel cages, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:39.160 in these literal torture cages to supply fresh bodies for 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:40.160 this slave trade. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.360 You know, I don't know if the people are aware 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.560 that the state and the federal government give so much 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.560 money to the jails and prison and you got to 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.440 be at least at ninety seven percent occupancy before you 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.760 can receive the federal and state funding. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.760 So not only did this sheriff Strain have his own 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.760 the various incentive to keep convictions up as of course 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.000 to the DA seeking re election, but there's literally also 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.160 a financial incentive from the state and federal government to 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.800 keep up the supply of fresh bodies in a center. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:19.280 Not that same vile and perverse incentive leads many municipalities 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.840 all over this country to operate this way, torturing or 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:27.160 coursing statements from not only the quote unquote suspects, but 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:28.400 witnesses as well. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.160 Jack Halstead was one of the corrupt prosecutors and that 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:37.520 prosecuted Jase that was known for badgering and threatening witnesses 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.480 and tell them say if you don't say what it 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.480 is we want you to say. You know, you're gonna 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.640 get your kids taken away from you. You're not going 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.120 to be able to get a job. They literally made 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.160 people lives miserable. You know, we got people that would 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.160 testify to that their doors and stuff were kicked in. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.280 Again, you've heard these tactics before on this show, and 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.040 if police have never threatened you or coursed you this way, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.480 maybe you'd be inclined to believe the things they say 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.560 in court and find yourself among the ten out of 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.200 twelve who consistently voted to convict. And so as we 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.120 begin to talk about this case in which there were 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.480 two assailants, you'll see how these two now disgraced former 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.440 elected officials, along with the Jim Crow era practice of 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:21.520 non unanimous juries, were all integral to Jace's conviction, as 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.200 well as the perverse incentives locally for the sheriff, of course, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.240 and from the state of federal government. And how and 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.120 why these nefarious actors in Saint Tammany Parish would decide 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.760 to prosecute four young men in a case in which 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.920 there were only two assailants. The two actual admitted assailants 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.360 were Glenn Carter and Edrick Cooper. Grant Gathers and our guest, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.040 Jace Washington were in addition to what was even called 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.920 for now. Jace, you didn't even know Glenn, right, but 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.079 I understand that you did know Grant and Edric. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.160 All of us went to school together, you know, create 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:01.079 basketball and school together. Grant were a little a little 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.479 more than a quaintance's closest. 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.880 Than ed and from what I understand, they both had 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.280 a criminal record. Edric has admitted to making a habit 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.840 of trading false or real information for freedom and his 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.400 general occupation of petty theft and grant had been convicted 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.640 once before, but his experience with the system in Saint 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.440 Tammany played into his decision once they came after him 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.240 for this. So that brings us to April twenty nine, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.880 two thousand and seven. This crime happened in Slide El, Louisiana, 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.000 just on the north side of Lake Poncher Trade from 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.160 New Orleans, where five or six undocumented workers were living 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.120 in the trailer as a home base for their day 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.960 labor jobs in New Orleans. Now being undocumented, these guys 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.400 carried cash and were not likely to go to law 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.480 enforcement if they were robbed, which made them easy targets. So, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.920 according to the initial statements from the victim's friends, two 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.280 gunmen came into the trailer demanding money. The victim, Jose 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.480 Carlos Martinez Carpio, had trouble understanding with the language barrier 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.960 and attacked the gunman with a kitchen knife or something 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.480 and he was fatally shot. The assailants then fled, leaving 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.480 the rest of the men in the trailer stunned and 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.480 grieving as well as in It was impossibly precarious predicament, 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.280 so some time went by before they called the police. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.800 The first nine one one call was at nine to 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:15.600 seventeen PM. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.480 It was a yap there to God think next door 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.320 to them ended up calling nine one one. That's what 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.800 he explained, that another child that minutes had passed time 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.000 had passed from the time of the shots by and 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.600 been on when one called, because they were trying to 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:31.240 figure out what. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.400 To do, and I want to bring Izzy in here now. 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.240 Some of the witnesses in the trailer that night were 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:37.720 interviewed by the police, right. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.320 Yes, I think all of them were actually interviewed. But 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.480 there were some of them that said that they heard 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.320 the gunshot. They closed their doors and did not come 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.640 outside at all. But there were two people who said 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.080 that they described seeing two people, the gunmen, enter the 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.880 mobile home. They had their faces covered, but their arms 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.400 were bare, and they could tell that they were black men. 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.720 The taller of the two men went into the kitchen 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.440 area and then they heard gunshots coming from the kitchen area, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.840 and the shorter gunman who was at the door, he 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.040 was nervous and so he fired his weapon onto the floor, 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:13.640 and then he also fled the area. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.240 So the gunman fled. The two witnesses are Echo, Gooyan 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.800 and Avola. They said that one gunman was taller than 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.200 the other, but not by much. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.880 They said that they were similar to their height, which 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.640 was about five eight and five ten foot tall. Jayce 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.800 stands about six four feet tall and Carter and Cooper 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.840 is about five eight five ten feet tall. Now, jas 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.040 is a black man, but he is extremely light skinned. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.600 Carter is a little darker. The witnesses that were inside 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.800 the home saw the arms of the assailants, said no, 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.160 they didn't have any tattoos. But if you look at 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.360 Jays he has clearly visible tattoos on both arms. 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.040 So that's three major features right there that don't match 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.520 the witness's descriptions that should have been right there. These 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.120 are things that are not subject to the pitfalls of misidentification. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.399 You can't really mistake no tattoos for tattoos, dramatic contrasted 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.800 skin tone and six four for five eight. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.280 The two people that they saw in the mobile home. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.400 Did not mash the description of Jace Washington. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:16.879 Or Grand Gathers for that matter. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.160 No, they mashed the description of Cooper and Carter right. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.240 But at this point, the cops just had two black 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.560 men five eight and five ten, dark skin, no tattoos, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.479 both with guns, faces recovered. I believe they mentioned as 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.280 Chevy Tahoe according to a report written by one of 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.800 the detectives in this case, a detective calendar. Other witnesses 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.600 reported the Chevy Tahoe as well. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.959 Right April thirtieth, there was an eyewitness that reported two 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.720 black males in a car very close to the crime area. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.080 One of the black males exit the car and appear 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.200 to be hiding a weapon in the bushes. The officers 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.720 they were able to retrieve the gun and then trace 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.399 the gun to one of the guns that was used 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.880 in that robbery, and that's what led officers to arrest 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.280 Carter in the first place. 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.760 So they zeroed in on seventeen year old Glenn Carter 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:07.800 a few days later on May third, when he was 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.800 thrown into a squirrel cage, and I believe he was 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.240 facing the death penalty. So it's not a hard decision 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.480 to cooperate. He confessed to the crime, giving a very 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.760 similar story as to witnesses, and gave up the name 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.280 E for the initial E as his accomplice. Now, the 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.399 police were already familiar with eighteen year old Edrick Cooper 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.560 as a known associate of Glenn Carter from previous running, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.359 so this was basically all the corroboration they needed to 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:32.119 go scoop him up. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:36.720 Who were he was wanted by the detectives already all 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.200 a week earlier they had been looking for him. That 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.040 was the way they were able to identify who Glenn 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.880 Carter was talking about his accompanies. 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.320 So on May fifth, Edrick Cooper he also confessed, but 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.119 he told the officers that there were two other people 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.520 who were with him, Jason Washington and Grant Gethers. 0:18:55.760 --> 0:19:00.560 By Carter implicating him him already being wanted, pulled two 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.320 names out the air try to relieve some of the 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.960 trouble that he was in. It could have been anybody, 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.879 as peoplework from other witnesses that was interviewed by detectives, 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.600 they say he added four or three other names. You know, 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.240 if the detectives knew Cooper was not telling the truth, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.080 because there were things that they already knew that Cooper 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.600 did not realize they knew right. 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:23.760 And as I mentioned earlier, this was Cooper's m O 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.640 to trade false information for freedom. Saint Tammany police knew 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.200 that from previous interactions, but they were more than happy 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:32.200 to work with him anyway. 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.080 In the unrelated prime, the same thing happened. I witnesses 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:40.320 gave descriptions that sid Carter and Cooper called a told 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.439 on Cooper again, and when detectives asked Cooper about it, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.920 he implicated a third party, and eyewitnesses descriptions that they 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.879 gave did not hit this third party. All the numbers assailings, 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.280 that number of sus that were seen in this other 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:55.200 unrelated prime. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.200 Yep, DejaVu all over again. And as we spoke about already, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.520 Saint Tammany, the sheriff, the DA, they all had their 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.160 own list of incentives to work with Cooper, and none 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.040 of them were truth, justice or public safety. So what 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.359 we're going to see unfold here is the prosecution of 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.879 Glenn Carter on the basis of the witness statements from 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.560 the trailer and his own confession. Then Edrick Cooper pled 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.760 guilty under the same set of facts and then Jace 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.320 gets prosecuted under a totally different narrative. The jury was 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.760 kept completely in the dark, and Cooper was allowed to 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.600 change the details and manipulate the narrative over time in 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.760 order to implicate two more young men, Jason Grant, in 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.760 a crime in which there were only two assailants. So 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.159 let's talk about the ever changing false narrative of Edrick Cooper. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.640 The initial statement that he gave, he said all four 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.159 of them rode to the crime scene in Carter's vehicle. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:54.080 He said that he had a black nine millimeter luger, 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:59.440 Jace had a thirty eight, and Carter had a forty five. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.480 He said, Jace and Carter entered the trailer and Cooper 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.200 and Grant stood outside as the lookouts. And so when 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.760 they heard the gunshot, that's when they all started running 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.240 and they drove out of the crime scene, all four 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.480 of them in Carter's car. That's the story that he 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:15.600 told the officers. 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.800 Glenn Carter, and the trailer witnesses said that Carter, the 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.720 taller of the two gunmen, went into the kitchen, while 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.240 the shorter gunman stayed in the front by the door. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.240 First of all, if Jace was one of the gunmen, 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.360 then he most certainly would have been the taller one 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.879 by far. Jace being six four is an irreconcilable truth 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.679 on its face, as are the tattoos. Then you have 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.280 the witnesses that reported seeing the gun drop outside the tahoe, 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.800 and just like Glenn Carter and the witnesses from the trailer, 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.879 they also only reported seeing two men. So despite what 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.960 detectives with any sort of moral compass should have done, 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:48.480 they got an a the rest warrant for Jase and 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.760 the search warrant for Jace's father's house. Now, remember we 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.320 have Glenn Carter with the murder weapon of forty five, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.919 then Jace allegedly with a thirty eight, and Edric Cooper 0:21:57.960 --> 0:21:59.800 outside with a nine millimeter Luger. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:05.639 So Jason's father legally owned a nine millimeter Ruger handgun. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.160 So when they found that gun, Cooper changed his statement 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:10.080 to say. 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.639 Ruger, So Ruger not Luger. 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.320 And then he also changed his statement to say that 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:18.840 it wasn't him, it was Jase that had that gun. 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.920 Okay. So, now, with Jas's plausible access to his father's 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:27.760 Ruger not Luger Ruger, Cooper has not only to change 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.720 the brand of gun, but also to switch gun placements 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.800 between him and jas So in this version of events, 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:39.320 Cooper was allegedly outside now with the thirty eight. Now, 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.439 didn't the trailer witness to say that the gunman by 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.240 the front door had fired his weapon into the floor. 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.800 Yes, the thirty eight gun was actually fired in the trailer, 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.800 So Cooper changed the statement to include him and Grant 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.280 Gathers all in the trailer, four people in the trailer 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.119 instead of just two people that he had initially said. 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.919 So the only thing from his initial statement that remained 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.760 the same, and the only thing that was consistent with 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.960 Glenn Carter's statement, was that Glenn Carter used the forty five. 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.840 Other than that, the brand of nine millimeter changed, as 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.080 did who was holding it in order to match what 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.560 the police had found at Jace's father's house, And then 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:18.520 the number of people in the trailer had to change 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:19.960 in order to make room for the fact that the 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.359 thirty eight had been fired, as well as the change 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.320 of who was holding what gun. Jace allegedly with his 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.719 father's ruger and Cooper firing the thirty eight into the ground, 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:31.840 as the witnesses in the trailer had said. 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.480 And as you had mentioned earlier, a lot of those 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.720 people that lived inside the home were immigrants that did 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.000 not have the proper authorization to remain in the United States. 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.600 So right after the incident happened, they were all arrested 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:48.720 and detained. They were detained until December of that same year, 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.000 when who I believe is the current DA of Saint 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:55.160 Tammany Parish filed a petition with the court and said 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.640 that these guys were victims and so did not deserve 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.840 to be detained and they had to be released. After 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.680 they were released, one of those people also started change 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:06.320 in history. 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.800 The current DA is Warren Montgomery, and he worked with 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.080 the Public Defender's Office at the time. Now one of 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.800 the undocumented workers, either at Kagoyan or Avola change their 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:17.640 story to maybe possibly include a third or fourth assailant 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:19.840 to give the state the wiggle room they needed to 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:23.919 eventually prosecute Jason Grant. But back to the immediate aftermath, 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.040 So both you and Grant were about to be arrested. 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:27.720 They end up coming to pick me up from my 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.600 home the next day. You don't have enough money for 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:34.080 an attorney. It took us a long time to figure 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:38.120 out what was being said and who's shit. 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:41.160 So no money for an attorney means no money for bail, 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.520 and you've got no information about why you're even there. 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.280 I can't even imagine what must have been going through 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:46.760 your mind. 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:50.800 They take you in the shack world. Cages are full, 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:52.680 some of them have two or three people in them. 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:55.840 Some of them still have handcuffs on. You know, I'm 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.720 nineteen years old and I'm trying to proston what's going 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.400 on law. They put me right into one of those 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.760 world keys, and I'm still trying to figure out how 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:06.720 did I get here. 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:23.960 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:27.840 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:30.639 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.360 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.159 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and 0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:40.080 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.320 the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.040 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.159 Four was set It in two, Four Black Bodies Set 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:03.880 It in two, and at Seeing revealed that work against 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:09.920 the detective theories. All they did wasdiated change and this 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:14.160 could have been remedied from the beginning if Detective State Calendar, 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:17.520 Detective Cannon Garrow had done their job. 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.400 And it seems they might have been doing their job. 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:22.639 It's just not the job that they pretend it is 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.600 in public. So you were stuck in jail awaiting trial 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:28.439 with one piece of information or report from Detective Calendar 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:30.960 about the investigation. Meanwhile they were out there trying to 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.240 fix the case against you. So they tried to corroborate 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:37.760 Edric Cooper's narrative and they had to change it several 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:40.439 times by now already just to fit the facts. 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:44.399 And then DNA evidence was also conducted because he had 0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:48.000 said that they rode in an out in Carter's car, 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:51.760 and he said Carter gave them certain items from his car, 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.159 like a bandana and items to cover their faces. They 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:59.440 seized Carter's car, tested it thoroughly for DNA evidence. There 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:03.960 is not a single instant where Jason's or Grant gathers 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.120 DNA was found in any of the items that were 0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:10.200 found in Carter's car or anything in Carter's. 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:14.040 Car which had they been in there. Finding neither of 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:18.360 their DNA. That's not plausible, maybe not even possible. 0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:22.240 Yes, So Cooper then changes the story to say that 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:25.879 Grant and Jace were in one car, and he and 0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:27.800 Carter were in Carter's car. 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:33.280 That's convenient, so okay, boom, a new, non existent, nondescript 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:37.000 car gets introduced. What's odd, though, is that this narrative 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:40.359 is only present in Jas's case. Great Gathers, on the 0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:43.360 other hand, had a prior and had he gone to trial, 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:46.000 he could have got life, so he pled guilty in 0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.080 exchange for leniency. Understandably in his plea though, he copped 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:52.440 to being in the Chevy Tahoe, but because he didn't 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:54.879 fight it, the fact that DNA testing excluded him from 0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:57.400 the Tahoe didn't matter. He just took the seven years 0:27:57.480 --> 0:27:58.920 or whatever they gave him to get out of his 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.720 squirrel cage, and Jace would have been out in like 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.720 twenty seventeen, twenty twenty the latest had he done the same. 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:09.320 They never in a million years expected me to go 0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:13.760 to trial and fight. They were expecting me to be guilty. 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:16.719 From the moment that he was arrested. All that they 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:19.200 wanted him to do was just say you're guilty. Just 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:20.680 say you did it, so then we give you a 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:22.879 man's a lot of charge and you probably get like 0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:26.200 ten years. And he kept insisting that he's not going 0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:28.560 to plead guilty to something that he hadn't done. 0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:33.560 They tried to at least three or four times after 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:37.480 I asked for an attorney, which is unconstitutional. The Texas 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.960 State's Canada technique candidero. They would send try to send 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.520 different people in there to give me to make a succession. 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:46.480 At one point, you've been telling me when I asked 0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:49.040 for my attorney, oh, well, you're going to have a 0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:51.680 public spending. The public desfendant doesn't care about you, so 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:54.640 it is your best interest to just go ahead. And 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:56.719 I'm like, man, I, oh my lord. You know, at 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:58.560 this point, I'm kind of im agitated. I want my 0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:02.320 lawd So after a while of that, they finally keep 0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:04.880 me in for processing. On my way out to former 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:08.960 Sheriff Jack Strain made Tommy said, this is a New Orleans. 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.200 You know at this time I had the chipy streadlocked Testyle. 0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:15.720 Sheriff's Strain was very clear about his views and his 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.360 reelection campaign in twenty ten. He equated the chieweed dreadlock 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.400 Hairstyle with criminal behavior, and it's probably why he operated 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.480 the way he did. So the squirrel cage didn't work 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.240 on you, reasoning with you about how you're going to 0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:30.360 get terrible representation hadn't worked. 0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:33.640 What happened next I was taken out of the world 0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:37.960 cage and I was placed in the whole phanati days, 0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:41.560 couldn't see the news. I had to ask someone friend 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:44.680 of mine to send me internet print out of an 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.800 article to just kind of get an understanding of what 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.640 exactly they was saying was going on, because we still 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:52.640 don't know what's going on. 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:55.680 I don't think they knew what was going on because 0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:57.720 they hadn't decided on the narrative that they were going 0:29:57.800 --> 0:29:59.680 to frame me with yet. So you got out of 0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:02.680 the whole after ninety days, met with your public defender, 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:05.760 and finally got to see a report from Detective Stacey Calendar. 0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:08.680 What years later we find out that a lot of 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.080 the stuff she put in that first investigative report was 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:16.720 dedignated and fabricated. She fabricated witnesses statements evidence. She changes 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:20.840 the descriptions into our witnesses guilds. She changes things that 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:25.560 Cooper tells her. She just changes things throughout her investigative 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:30.760 report to make their investigations seem tighter. And what she's 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:34.320 saying in her report and the investigations done by the detectives, 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:35.480 it's not magic goal. 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:38.000 And like you said, you didn't find this out until 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.000 years later. Unfortunately, you did not have the benefit of 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:44.200 effective counsel or the opportunity to review those materials to 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:48.800 make that comparison yourself. Certainly, neither your first public defender, 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:52.040 James Tally, or your second, Melissa Brink, were able to 0:30:52.160 --> 0:30:55.920 develop a defense outlining the discrepancies between detective calendars report 0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:57.640 and the actual investigation. 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.880 For maybe a year and a half, the only thing 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:04.240 I had was her investigated report. This restricted her words. 0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:07.360 I had no witness trances or witness statements or anything 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:11.360 like that. So I'm trying to build a defense off 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:15.440 of what's in this report. And then maybe a two 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.360 months before trial two thousand and nine, did come back, 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:19.760 and now all of a sudden, that's changed. 0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:20.240 You know. 0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:22.440 I got up an open court and I explained to 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:27.160 Judge Richard Schwartz what was Kaye's place, And the answer 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.800 he gave me was Melissa bringing handle it, and that 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.120 assessionly turned out to be very, very, very incorrect. 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.160 Yeah, she was handling what like three hundred and seventy 0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:41.840 eight cases. I mean, I gotta pause there again, that's 0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:45.800 crazy when she should have had I mean, even one 0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:49.360 hundred and fifty would have been an incredible strain on anyone. 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:52.920 The ineffective counsel was virtually guaranteed, as it is with 0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:56.800 so many indigent defendants all over the country, the constitutional 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.800 violation is built right in. So Glenn Carter went to 0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:02.680 try out first, followed by Edrick Cooper, then you, then Grant, 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:04.840 and all four of you were found guilty separately, and 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.240 I mean very separately. And can you explain what I'm 0:32:07.240 --> 0:32:07.760 talking about? 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:12.480 Well, First, Glenn Carr was fried August two thousand and eight. 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:18.320 He was convicted with evidence of only him and Edrick. 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.440 Cooper committing his crime, right, so consistent with the original 0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:23.240 witness statements and his own admission. 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:26.680 Right, there was no evidence presented by the state of 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:30.600 three and four other people. The next day, after Glen 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:35.400 Carter was convicted, Edwick Cooper played guilty, but onder the 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:40.080 factual basis that it was only him and Carter who 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:40.960 committed the crime. 0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:44.040 So everything that Glenn Carter and Edrick Cooper copp to 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:49.400 at their proceedings exonerated deal you earned even mentioned in 0:32:49.520 --> 0:32:52.360 those proceedings. What about his statement that was eventually used 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:52.760 against you? 0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:57.480 The next day, after pleading guilty, the detectives took him 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:02.320 for the attorney's office, another slow location. No one's turned 0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:05.680 and nobody knows where they went to reinterview him, And 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.680 all of a sudden, miraculously, this second statement comes up, 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:15.360 and it seeks to validate the initial investigation that it's 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:16.160 not a repeating. 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.600 So Cooper's initial statement, which served as the probable cause 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.640 to arrest you and search your father's house, in which 0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:27.600 he admitted to his involvement, that was not even brought 0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:31.680 up at his proceedings, probably because it was so wildly 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:35.520 and completely out of step with reality. But now they 0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:39.120 needed a new statement that wasn't so obviously false that 0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:42.200 included you and Grant Gathers. And the only thing about 0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:46.040 this new statement that even vaguely resembled the initial statement 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:49.400 was that you two were there and the Carter used 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:52.600 a forty five. They also now had one of the 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:56.600 trailer witnesses allegedly giving them that wiggle room of well 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.960 maybe there was a third or fourth assailant. Who knows 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:02.560 if this change was just a translator taking some sort 0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:04.800 of creative license, I mean, could have been. But how 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:08.919 did the judge even allow this to go on? We're 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.800 talking about the narrative of a crime that have just 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.080 appeared twice in front of the court. 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:17.800 Judge Purist, the judge that did Carters trial and the 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.840 Coopers pleat once he took the plea from Pedrick Cooper 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:24.200 said an open court on the record that he was 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:28.640 recognizing these as stipulated facts. Basically, he used the legal 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:32.880 term he was taking judicial notice, which is he saying 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:36.440 he's taking these facts that he's been watching throughout the 0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:40.760 Carter proceedings and now at this Cooper proceeding, he's saying, Okay, 0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:43.560 this is what y'all are saying happened in this crime. 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:48.400 These are the facts of the case. So Judge Juris 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:52.000 was not going to excel the facts that were presented 0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:56.040 at my trial. And what happened was I was miraculously 0:34:56.520 --> 0:34:59.440 taking out a judge Buris court and placed some entirely 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:02.600 different set action where a different set of facts were 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:07.319 consitting to a different judge saying that Hey, two completely 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:10.480 irreconcilable names happened in this case. 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:13.520 Yeah, you just can't have two contradicting narrators of the 0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:15.680 same crime. So even though they switched you to a 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.799 different judge, Judge Schwartz, I mean, wouldn't he just see 0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:21.520 the same thing that Burst did. The state must have 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:23.640 recognized that this was weak footing. 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:27.399 Jason's trial was in October twelve, two thousand and nine. 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:30.759 October nine, they were presenting him with a plea deal 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.200 to testify against Grant Gethers, and he said he can't 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.680 testify against Grant because he wasn't there. 0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.400 So you're sticking to your innocence to the bitter end. 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:42.440 Did your public defender try to encourage you to take. 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:47.759 A play the guilty Yes, every day up until October fourteenth, 0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.040 two thout a nine was the day I was found guilty. 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:53.080 And I keep telling her the same thing over and 0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:56.279 over and over again. I'm not too guilty as something 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:56.960 that I didn't do. 0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:01.359 And just out of curiosity, what did they offer? Ten 0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:02.600 years that was. 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:07.480 Ultimately grand Gether's decision in uilty to eight years that 0:36:07.600 --> 0:36:10.280 was found with guilty of a lesser charge. Grand Gethers 0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:12.560 would have been going to trial for second to he murdered, 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:16.920 which in Louisiana is a mandatory life citizens no parole. 0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:22.440 So it was a decision between eight years or mandatory 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:23.440 life with no parole. 0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:26.320 That's pretty easy master to do. And I guess he 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.120 didn't know about the DNA evidence that excluded him from 0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.120 ever having entered Glenn Carter Chevy Tahoe. That was a 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:34.560 part of the narrative of his proceedings. And what about 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.160 the evidence presented in Carter and Cooper's proceedings. You think 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.640 your attorney would be a little more confident and you 0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:42.080 would have fared a lot better at trial. But what happened. 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:46.600 He tried to get cause of confessions that it's not 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:50.719 a ray introduced that trial so the jury to hear it. 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:53.800 The judge shot it down. He said that it wasn't. 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:58.279 Trustworthy, wasn't trustworthy. They just used it to send two 0:36:58.400 --> 0:36:59.919 men away, one for life. 0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:04.200 It just didn't make any sense. And the dream we 0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:06.360 never heard of it. The twelve people at my trial 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:10.600 still don't know to this state that this succession existed. 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.920 And if they had, there's reasonable likelihoods that I would. 0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.640 Have got not guilty burden I mean, what else are 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:20.120 we supposed to conclude about this? Judge, he saw the 0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:22.880 evidence from the other two proceedings which impeached the testimony 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.719 of the state star witness against you, and he excluded it. 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:29.120 So now the jury only hears the narrative of Edrick Cooper, 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.520 and they have no idea how many times it changed 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:34.600 or how fundamental those changes were. And as we've mentioned, 0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:37.400 up until this point, the impeachment evidence for Cooper's testimony 0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:40.000 had not been developed very well by Jason's attorney. 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:42.759 The prosecution, you know, they had the burden, but their 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.640 burden was very simple, was just really getting Cooper to 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.879 tell the most recent version of events. The defense's job 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:52.120 was probably harder. That she needed to be extremely organized 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:55.120 to list all those statements that Cooper had said that 0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:58.439 weren't true and then actually also do the extra work 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:01.239 to show that even if we're supposed to believe the 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.399 last statement that he's given and disregard all the prior 0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.439 statements that he's saying, this last statement that he's saying 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:10.360 cannot even be true. And she didn't do that. She 0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:13.320 didn't have the time to do all the investigation, or 0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:16.360 probably didn't have the resources to do the investigations that 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:18.880 she needed to do, and so she went to trial 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:21.960 unprepared and the jury could not follow. 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.080 She didn't effectively demonstrate the whole clusterfuck around the narrative 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:28.960 changing between Cooper outside the trailer with a nine milimeters 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:32.120 luger and Jace inside with a thirty eight to then 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:35.640 Jace with a nine milimeter ruger and all four of 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:39.160 them inside the trailer. Then you have one witness, likely 0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:42.960 threatened with deportation or worse, changing their story to include 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.160 the possibility of more sailance than the original two, then 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.920 going from one car to two cars because DNA evidence 0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:54.440 excluded Jace. How this issue wasn't raised. It just baffles 0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:58.120 and infuriates me. But then there's this phone record evidence 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:01.399 that was introduced to draw connection between Jason Glenn Carter, 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.600 but it could have easily been used to impeach Cooper's 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:09.200 ever changing narrative. Cooper had made statements about how he, Jace, 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.200 and Grant went to Mississippi earlier in the day, when 0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:16.480 the phone records show that Jason Grant had never left Louisiana. 0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:19.960 She could have connected those dots or called an expert 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:22.680 to extrapolate a clear vision of Cooper's lives from the 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:27.520 phone record, but again she was just overwhelmed and not 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:30.960 prepared to do that, which could have been a game changer. 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:36.280 So Cooper had initially told officers that he and Jace 0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:38.480 and Grant they had been in Mississippi and then they 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.320 returned to Sliddale on Sunday, which was the day of 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:45.000 the incident, about five or so. What is interesting was 0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:49.200 that Jayce had a purchase receipt that showed that he 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:52.960 was already in Louisiana around three pm. So at trial, 0:39:53.160 --> 0:39:56.640 Cooper changed the testimony again to say that they arrived 0:39:56.719 --> 0:39:58.560 in Slydale at ten am. 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:01.480 So this appears to be just more of the police 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.600 and edred Cooper perfecting his statement to align with reality, 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:07.759 and that's what you have to do with live So 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:10.719 how did they try to connect Jas with Glenn Carter? 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:13.400 Cooper said that when he got to slide Al, he 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:17.200 called Carter on Jas's phone. He said that that's when 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:19.920 they all got together with Carter and that's when they 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:22.920 planned the robbery together. And then he also said that 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:26.200 after the robbery, when they were fleeing the area, he 0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:30.000 said that Jace called Carter on Carter's phone, and Carter 0:40:30.160 --> 0:40:32.319 did not answer, so they asked him how many times 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:34.640 did he call, and he said he called just once. 0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.279 When all four of them were initially arrested, there were 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.320 two numbers that were listed for Carter. One number, the 0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:44.319 officers found out quickly was not Carter's number, so they 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:48.040 proceeded with just the remaining number, and so that number 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:51.399 that they proceeded through before Jasu's trial as Carter's number. 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.759 That number never appeared on Jas's phone, so. 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:58.080 Not at either time that Cooper alleged ten am or 0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:00.359 nine eighteen pm. So how did they try to make 0:41:00.400 --> 0:41:02.520 it look like Jason Carter spoke on the phone. 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:06.879 About a week before Jason's trial, the prosecution goes into 0:41:07.000 --> 0:41:10.200 Jas's phone, there was a phone call from Jase's number 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:14.080 at nine eighteen so the prosecution presented this number as 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:14.959 Carter's number. 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.280 So the prosecution just took whatever number Jase called around 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:20.239 the time of the crime and just told the jury 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.600 that that was Carter's number to match up with Cooper's 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:27.560 latest version of events. So let's try to unravel this one. 0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.160 Cooper said that when Jace called Carter that Carter did 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:34.600 not answer, but the number that Jace called around nine eighteen. 0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:37.880 It shows that the person actually answered and there was 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.320 a conversation, and it shows that a few minutes or 0:41:40.400 --> 0:41:43.360 so after, Jace called that number again and the person 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:44.200 also answered. 0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:46.880 And so I'm sure our audience won't be surprised to 0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:49.480 find out that the number that they presented as Carter's 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:53.000 during trial only appeared in the evening, not at ten am, 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:56.640 as Cooper had said, thereby exposing yet another one of 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:57.479 this guy's lives. 0:41:57.880 --> 0:42:01.880 After trial, Jace, this attorney filed a rid with a 0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:05.120 Chord for a subpoena to get that phone record to 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.480 verify if that number was Carter's number, the number that 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:11.880 Cooper had testified a trial to be Carter's number, and 0:42:12.040 --> 0:42:15.120 that number turned out not to be Carter's number. If 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:17.520 you read the Court of Appeal's opinion on Jasu's case, 0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:20.360 it appears that that's something that they consider to be important. 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:25.320 That the state was able to establish that connection between 0:42:25.560 --> 0:42:28.439 Jas and Carter using that phone record. But the phone 0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:32.680 record that they presented was in Carter's phone number, and 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:36.360 what the prosecution did was they just presented the number 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:39.000 and showed it to Cooper a trial and said that, 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:42.000 whose number is this? And then Cooper goes, this is 0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:44.839 Jasu's number. Whose number is this? And then he goes, 0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:47.680 that's Carter's number. Who's the number calling this number? And 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.200 it's like Jasu's number calling Carter's number. Then they bring 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:55.799 Carter's girlfriend to the stand. Carter's girlfriend. This is two 0:42:55.960 --> 0:43:00.600 years later, two years after this incident had happened. Carter's 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.399 girlfriend comes to the stand and then the prosecution asked 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:06.040 her back in April of two thousand and seven, was 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:09.000 Glenn Carter your boyfriend? And she says yes, sir. And 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:12.160 the prosecution goes and Glenn's Carter's being convicted of murder? 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.360 Is that correct? She goes, yes, sir, in April of 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.120 two thousand, what was Glenn Carter's phone number? Then she 0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:21.840 lists the number that Jays dialed on the night of 0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:25.200 the incident. She lists that as Carter's number from memory. 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:29.440 Two years two years she remembered the number like that 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.320 from memory. And this is the part where I just 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:36.240 fell so disappointed in Jas's attorney at the time, because 0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:40.680 she just basically said, I have no questions. She did 0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:43.680 not cross examine this witness to even understand how she 0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:48.160 remembered Carter's number. She did not cross examine Cooper to 0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:52.239 even find out how he remembered that to be Carter's number. 0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.520 Two years after the incident happened, she did. 0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:57.719 Find out that this was not in fact Carter's number, 0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.560 That both of these witnesses perjured themselves, but too little, 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.480 too late. I've got to imagine that having them memorize 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:05.879 a number off of Jason's phone that wasn't their friend 0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:09.560 Glenn Carter's had to have been the prosecution's idea. But 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:11.839 if I were on the jury, I mean, after hearing 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:15.600 Cooper's testimony, not knowing all the inconsistencies with prior statements 0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.359 or how it was contradicted by witness statements, and having 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:21.520 that testimony corroborated by the phone records, I can see 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:22.680 how the jury was fooled. 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.760 And even with that, there was at least one person 0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:27.960 on the jury that said that they didn't believe what 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:30.960 the state was saying. They had that testimony from Cooper. 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:35.799 Cooper's credibility wasn't properly impeached by Jesson's attorney, and they 0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:39.400 ended up buying his story over the story that Jas's attorney. 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:41.479 Because I don't even know what story she was trying 0:44:41.560 --> 0:44:44.080 to tell. She didn't put up that defense. There were 0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:46.600 so many other people who are willing to testify about 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:49.560 Jason's whereabouts. There were so many other witnesses that she 0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:52.840 just didn't call. In the beginning, all that she wanted 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:54.800 to do was for Jase to plead guilty, So she 0:44:54.960 --> 0:44:56.239 wasn't prepared for a trial. 0:44:56.640 --> 0:45:00.319 Other than the inadequate and disorganized cross examination. I think 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:02.080 she put your dad on the stand to say that 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:03.800 you didn't have access to his gun and that you 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.960 were home at the time of the crime. Unfortunately, alibi 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:10.960 defense from family rarely does the trek. So other than that, 0:45:11.200 --> 0:45:13.640 did your attorney present any defense at all? 0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:19.000 She called no witnesses, She presented none of the evidence, 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:23.360 none of the fall records, no expert for the Fall Reforce, nothing. 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:28.120 She did nothing, and she put together no defense to 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:33.239 actually test the theory and the chinological timeline of Eddie 0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:36.960 Pooble and the state. All of the evidence that I 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:41.200 have now proving what I'm saying, all of it was 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.320 avid by the state, stuff that they call open discovery, 0:45:44.680 --> 0:45:46.879 stuff that she could have pulled, looked at. 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:50.160 And been able to sit the pool, which just points 0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:52.200 out that the state had to have known what they 0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:56.000 were doing. This was their information and they simply used 0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:58.680 it to guide the actual guilty party to frame an 0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:01.680 innocent man. I mean, did you have any hope after 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:04.280 shitting through this sham trial? 0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:10.960 Yes, because Cooper admitted to line the day after he 0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:14.200 took that guilty please. You know, he was asked a 0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:17.239 question and he was like, Okay, yeah, lie then too, 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:19.640 but I'm not lying right now. And I think that 0:46:19.920 --> 0:46:23.080 was one of the biggest things that made me believe that, 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:24.880 I mean, come out of this all right. You know. 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:28.200 It wasn't a unanimous very. He was non unanimous. During 0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:30.200 the jury pole, he had one white lady. You could 0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:33.520 see that she was rather perturbed by the fact that 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:38.439 the other eleven jurors could not see pass them saying 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:41.640 I committed a crime. During the jury pole, she was 0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:46.400 physically angry that this was happening because she was able 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.840 to see for the status saying and what Edward Cooper 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:50.399 saying doesn't make any sense. 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:55.000 So he was acquitted of the second degree murder and 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:57.520 then they found him guilty of the manslaughter. 0:46:58.520 --> 0:47:03.680 In that moment, I'm trying to wrap my head around 0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:08.399 what was going on and how it had taken place. 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:13.239 It wasn't very secretive. They're not even sweeping it under 0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:15.360 the rug anymore. They just dumping it on the ground 0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:17.759 and leaving it there. In that moment, I kind of 0:47:17.880 --> 0:47:21.759 realized what I was dealing with. That gilt diberty came. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:41.560 I realized I'm dealing with a monster. I was sentenced 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:47.800 to twenty five years. Twenty five Paul Lady digging ditches, 0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:52.480 digging holes, surrounded by the white guy on a horse 0:47:53.040 --> 0:48:00.319 with rifles and digging. You're pulling vegetables. I mean part 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:05.359 label and since the day, for since the day. That's 0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:07.600 not slavery, and I don't know what it is. 0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:11.800 It is quite literally slavery according to the thirteenth Amendment, 0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:14.200 and then according to voters in the twenty twenty two midterms, 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.120 A voter to keep slavery as a punishment for a 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:19.240 crime in Louisiana. I mean, between all of the official 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:22.560 and prosecutorial misconduct, the incentives keep the jail in prison 0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:26.719 population up, and how hopefully overworked and underfunded the public 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:30.080 defender's offices, It's almost like this is what the legislature 0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:33.799 has planned for poor people. Across Louisiana, let alone all 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:37.120 over our country. Having a public defender who could not 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:42.040 possibly organize or present an adequate defense is not the exception, 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:45.200 it's the rule for indigen defendants. It's a built in 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.920 constitutional violation of the right to effective assistance of counsel. 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:53.000 So there's a fifty page report that was, i want 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:56.080 to say, funded by the US Department of Justice, who's 0:48:56.080 --> 0:48:59.880 the American University of Washington, DC, and the findings of 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:05.040 the report established that the descendants in same family's parish 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:10.400 are routinely deprived their constitutional rights and their new process. 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.680 There was a sixty minute sectment in twenty seventeen with 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:20.000 Anderson Cooper and several public defenders from Louisiana were interviewed 0:49:20.320 --> 0:49:23.879 and they were explaining that it's like an assembly line 0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:28.600 in Louisiana. There's an abject underfunding by the state legislator 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:33.640 of the Public Defendant's office in Louisiana, and they're basically 0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:39.960 operating on a budget where they cannot give the constitutionally 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:45.040 required representations to get into defendants and expend no remedies, 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:48.840 and no one is addressing the people who are being objected. 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:51.120 Predominantly lack of meeral. 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:55.680 As it affected you and continues to affects other folks, 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.840 and you have not been taking this line down between 0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:01.560 stints out in the fields and studying the lawn, aggressively 0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:03.919 filing pro sae motions, as well as having some legal 0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:07.399 help along the way. But unfortunately you're being denied where 0:50:07.520 --> 0:50:10.719 it seems pretty clear that you should not be, especially 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:14.759 on the very basic and effective assistance of council claim. 0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:18.080 And you know what that last motion she filed, she 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:22.080 talks about things that she should have done prior to trial, 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:24.560 and she just kind of laid it all out so 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:28.359 that I could come back and fight it on post 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:31.239 additional collateral attack. She even made the comment to me 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.920 that I should get some kind of relief from not 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:39.279 being able to use called a statement a trial. She 0:50:39.600 --> 0:50:42.719 was in the belief that, okay, hey, that was so 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:45.880 big that it's going to get the case overturned. But 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:48.799 it just every time it comes back to the same name, 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:50.239 not not not. 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:53.279 All the other appeals that he filed for the court 0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:57.240 have also been denied because the standard of review on appeal, 0:50:57.520 --> 0:51:01.160 especially if you challenge the insufficientcy of evidence, is that 0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:04.920 the court just holds the position that if the jury 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:07.960 believed these things to be true, then we're also going 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:11.480 to believe it to be true. So Cooper's version of events, 0:51:11.719 --> 0:51:14.239 that's what the Court of Appeals take to be true. 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.400 And so when the court finds that a reasonable jury 0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:20.399 could come to that conclusion based on these facts, then 0:51:20.440 --> 0:51:24.160 the court will affirm the person's conviction. Cooper's testimony is 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:27.800 what is following Jays with every appeal that he files, 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:31.560 his appeals get denied. But what Jays has been challenging 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:35.760 is that the testimonies, the evidence that the prosecution presented 0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:37.520 to the jury were not true. 0:51:38.040 --> 0:51:41.720 Right, they presented false evidence, and one can surmise easily 0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:43.800 that they had to know that they were doing so, 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:46.960 considering how they helped Cooper's shape and mold his statements 0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:50.080 over time to drag two innocent people into this situation 0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:54.320 contrary to the initial witness statements and the factual basis 0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:57.480 presented at both Carters and Cooper's proceedings. But shortly after 0:51:57.560 --> 0:52:00.840 your conviction, between conviction and sentencing, I believe edreck Cooper 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.160 gave a recantation that is believed to have been made 0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:04.960 before trial. Is that right? 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:05.279 Is he? 0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:09.600 Yes? This is August twentieth, so if I'm reading the 0:52:09.680 --> 0:52:13.760 date right, this was probably before Jason's trial on August twentieth, 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:17.239 two thousand and nine, where Cooper signed an affidavit that 0:52:17.320 --> 0:52:19.879 he was ready to present to the court to say 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:22.800 that he had lied about the whole thing, that every 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:25.880 statement that he had provided was a lie, and that 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:28.520 he was a scared eighteen year old boy that he 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:32.120 knew Jays had never been in any type of criminal trouble, 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:35.520 and so because of that he implicated Jace, because he 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:37.400 knew that jas wasn't going to get convicted. 0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:39.920 Well, clearly he didn't understand what he was dealing with 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:42.440 in Saint Tammany Parish. So he wrote this prior to 0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:44.719 Jason's trial, but no one was aware of it until 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:46.840 between Jase's conviction and his sentencing. 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:51.359 What happened was I go to courtA Citacy and Jack 0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:55.920 half standard Discratorney's office wrints him with purgury if he 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:59.120 goes through with the decantation. Same thing with Grant Dealers. 0:52:59.360 --> 0:53:04.360 He did recantation, explaining that he was falciplicated in the crime. 0:53:04.760 --> 0:53:08.240 Grant said that he wasn't there either, and that whatever 0:53:08.320 --> 0:53:11.239 it is that he said about Jason's involvement, it's not true. 0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:15.719 All of this is taken and once again manipulated in 0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:22.279 the state's favor, like Cooper was forced to make those 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:26.120 he can't taste, or Sam David brand Gillis, and they're 0:53:26.200 --> 0:53:29.880 making me look like I'm the wolf, you know, like 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.680 I'm just a big, bad guy that trying to force 0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:34.920 things into his favor. 0:53:35.400 --> 0:53:39.960 And the whole time it's the opposite classic projection. All 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:42.480 of these witnesses that they called credible at your trial, 0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:45.719 whom they had coerced into line, they then threatened them 0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:48.320 with perjury for trying to say something they knew to 0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:52.040 be true from their own investigation. So they got Cooper 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:54.839 and Grant to keep quiet. What about Glenn Carter. 0:53:55.280 --> 0:53:57.880 Carter actually wrote me a letter that I have, and 0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:00.480 he's playing in a letter that people were also that 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:02.040 I ended up getting caught up in all. 0:54:02.640 --> 0:54:05.400 So Carter wrote a letter to Jayce in which he 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:08.120 said a number of things, but the most important here 0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:10.920 that he said is that but when all of this 0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:14.160 is over, you could send somebody at me to sign 0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:17.840 the papers for you. Since E which is Edric and 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:21.120 Grant not gonna do it. I don't feel like you 0:54:21.160 --> 0:54:24.560 should be in here anyway, you didn't do anything, So, 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.480 like I said, let me get my shit situated and 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:30.040 I might do that for you. I know who was there, 0:54:30.360 --> 0:54:31.960 and I didn't see you, and I. 0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:35.239 Took that and I said, just watched maybe thousand as 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:38.560 well to get a new trial. Just watchhot that now 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:43.719 as well, without even addressing the significance of that letter 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:48.279 in cooperation to everything that I was saying before and 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:51.480 during the trial. Letters from all three of them have 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:55.520 been shot down saying basically, did they hold no credibility? 0:54:56.160 --> 0:54:58.920 It's funny how they will find recantations not credible, but 0:54:59.040 --> 0:55:02.200 that doesn't drag into question any previous statements made in 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:04.719 court by the same person, like did they recently learn 0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:06.840 how to become a liar? Is that the basic theory. 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:09.400 The only metric they're using for credibility seems to be 0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:12.120 if it maintains a conviction and suits their narrative. And 0:55:12.200 --> 0:55:14.040 in your case, the state had the evidence that this 0:55:14.200 --> 0:55:16.200 credit of the statements made against you a trial. But 0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:22.239 somehow these recantations are the incredible statements, so incredible in fact, 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:27.399 that when Jace received these recantation letters, his cell got 0:55:27.520 --> 0:55:29.760 tossed do I have that right, Jason? 0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:34.799 Yeah, that was in two thousand and ten. I had 0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:40.040 the letters from Grant and Buy. What happened was they 0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:43.000 came to all of myself, man, a lot of my 0:55:43.160 --> 0:55:46.120 early pictures. I've never seen it again after that sease, 0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:50.320 and in that bag, in that self were the recantation was. 0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:55.120 Thankfully I had it home and I sit it in 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:57.320 someone else's name. I'm glad I did that. 0:55:57.719 --> 0:55:59.880 I can't imagine how defeated you would have felt. So 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:01.560 at least you have a record of the other two 0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:04.680 recantations while you await Carter's help. What did you have 0:56:04.880 --> 0:56:06.680 to wait for to get his help? 0:56:07.040 --> 0:56:09.120 So I don't know what he has going on. Legally, 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:13.520 they promised him a parole d because he now had 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:15.839 parole under the juvenile law. 0:56:16.120 --> 0:56:19.440 He was seventeen, right, because he was a juvenile. That 0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:23.560 falls under two very important Scotis decisions Miller versus Alabama 0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:27.120 and Montgomery versus Louisiana. Between the two, it makes a 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:31.760 mandatory life without parole sentence except in cases of permanent incorrigibility. 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:35.520 It makes that sentence for a juvenile unconstitutional. And that 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:39.719 decision was made retroactive, so he was re sentenced and 0:56:39.880 --> 0:56:43.560 probably wants to wait until those proceedings are through before 0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:46.800 upsetting his own apple cart by helping you, since it 0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:49.400 seems they were hell bent on ignoring the signs pointing 0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:52.640 to your innocence, and that has not changed ever since 0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:54.640 your conviction. I think this needs to go to a 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.960 new trial, if not a new venue, because there is 0:56:57.080 --> 0:56:59.200 certainly new evidence and I don't see how you could 0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:01.480 ever be convicted with that new evidence being presented. 0:57:01.640 --> 0:57:05.080 So I have cooper statement where he recanted everything and 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:09.279 said he liked I have grants where he said he 0:57:10.120 --> 0:57:11.720 I have Carter's letter. 0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:14.839 You also have the subpoena phone records for the number 0:57:14.960 --> 0:57:18.040 passed off as Carter's phone in court, which established collusion 0:57:18.120 --> 0:57:21.640 between Jason Glenn Carter. However, that key piece of evidence 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:24.360 turned out to be bogus. That subpoena is not in 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:28.640 Jason's official filings, so it's new evidence. So given the opportunity, 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:31.200 you could subpoena the phone company again to submit that 0:57:31.280 --> 0:57:33.880 as new evidence. And you also did all the work 0:57:33.920 --> 0:57:38.280 that his attorney never did, thereby destroying Cooper's morass of lies. 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:41.320 For me, what I'm hoping comes out of this is 0:57:41.440 --> 0:57:45.120 that somebody goes like, Okay, let's look into this. Not 0:57:45.240 --> 0:57:48.600 even take my worry for it. Let's look at the paperwork. 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:53.640 The statements that were presented to the jury were false, 0:57:54.720 --> 0:57:58.680 and the prosecutor's office knew or should have known, that 0:57:58.880 --> 0:58:03.080 those statements were false. Cooper changed and was allowed to 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:07.640 change those testimonies with no consequences of perjury. And so 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:11.080 he constantly keeps changing the stories over and over again 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.800 until it got to a point where the prosecution could 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:17.360 sell that story to a jury. And as we had 0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:20.560 said earlier, even with all of this, there was at 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:24.320 least one person in that jury that said that they 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:26.880 did not believe what the prosecution was selling. 0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:29.280 Them, which in any other state except Oregon at the time, 0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:31.440 would have meant to hung jury. And this brings us 0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:34.560 to the very important development of Louisiana no longer accepting 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:37.720 non unanimous jury verdicts. They did away with this Jim 0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:41.200 Crow era practice in twenty eighteen by ballot initiative, but 0:58:41.560 --> 0:58:43.680 when this new law was taken to the Supreme Court, 0:58:44.560 --> 0:58:46.520 rather than making it retroactive, they led it up to 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:48.440 the state of Louisiana to decide. 0:58:49.160 --> 0:58:52.240 To me, that's like telling the fox that's garden a 0:58:52.320 --> 0:58:56.800 hen house to do something about what you did that 0:58:56.920 --> 0:59:00.600 you know was wrong. So Louisiana staying they're not gonna 0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:04.000 let the people go here. Within our organization, we know 0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:08.200 that it's over eight thousand people. It's over seventeen hundred 0:59:08.640 --> 0:59:11.880 or more here in Saint Tammany Parish, with jas on 0:59:11.960 --> 0:59:13.080 the top of the list. 0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:17.120 Belinda Parker Brown. She and her organization have now filed 0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:19.640 a lawsuit against the State of Louisiana, and in this 0:59:19.800 --> 0:59:22.840 lawsuit they planned to challenge the State of Louisiana once 0:59:22.880 --> 0:59:26.440 again on the issue of these non unitedmous jury verdicts. 0:59:27.000 --> 0:59:29.880 They was caught the highest court in the land, the 0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:35.200 United States Supreme Court rule what they did here was unconstitutional, 0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:39.960 and I'm saying it was criminal. So I'm saying that 0:59:40.720 --> 0:59:45.640 if it was unconstitutional and the United States Supreme Court, 0:59:46.000 --> 0:59:51.120 along with the people voting sixty four percent, let these 0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:51.800 people go. 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:54.280 Let them go free. 0:59:54.880 --> 0:59:58.640 If we got to organize some type of facilitation on 0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:02.000 how we want to release the people, that's fine, But 1:00:02.200 --> 1:00:06.040 it's not right for them to hold THEMN hostage kidnap 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:08.200 because they got it wrong. 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:10.480 And we're going to have action steps linked in the 1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:13.520 bio for Belinda's organization and to help Jace. 1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:17.640 So I put together a petition for Jace. We're hoping 1:00:17.720 --> 1:00:23.520 to create awareness, and we also want the new district 1:00:23.560 --> 1:00:27.160 attorney who is in Saint Tammany Parish. He has the 1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:32.240 power to reopen Jason's case. All the support and documents, 1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:37.640 all the inconsistent statements, Jason's phone records, Carter's phone records, 1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:41.840 Grant Gatherer's phone records, all of that information is available. 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:46.600 It's for him to give jas a second opportunity for 1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:48.480 his case to be reviewed. 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:52.400 Go to the bio now and we can all work 1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:55.760 together to write this wrong. And now we're going to 1:00:55.800 --> 1:00:58.960 turn to my favorite part of the show, closing arguments, 1:00:59.000 --> 1:01:03.280 where I think both of you again, I mean you 1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:05.960 just you inspire me to want to work harder and smarter, 1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:08.480 and we're going to keep fighting for you and for 1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:12.920 everyone that we can possibly help that's been rawly convicted. 1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:15.760 So closing arguments works like this, Isy, We're going to 1:01:15.800 --> 1:01:18.760 start with you. I'm going to turn my microphone off, 1:01:19.560 --> 1:01:22.080 kick back in my chair with my headphones on, close 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:24.680 my eyes, and just listen to anything else you want 1:01:24.720 --> 1:01:27.720 to share. With our audience and then hand the microphone 1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:30.360 off to Jason. He'll take us off into the sunset. 1:01:30.840 --> 1:01:35.040 April twenty ninth, two thousand and seven. Another human being, 1:01:35.400 --> 1:01:40.000 Jose Martinez Carpio, lost his life. He had a family, 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:43.800 he had people who loved and cared for him. He 1:01:44.080 --> 1:01:49.520 was an innocent man. He deserves justice, His family deserves justice. 1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:54.080 But if you have a situation where there's somebody else 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:59.920 who had absolutely nothing to do with what unfortunately happened 1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:05.560 to Jose Martinez, if you have that person serving time 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:09.840 in prison, then you're not delivering any justice to the victim. 1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:14.760 You're not serving society any good, and in what may 1:02:14.840 --> 1:02:18.560 have been the state's good intention, the state ended up 1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:25.520 victimizing another person and his family. Jason's conviction was a mistake, 1:02:26.640 --> 1:02:30.080 and it's a mistake that needs to be corrected. It's 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:35.200 been fifteen years over you, and that's all that I 1:02:35.320 --> 1:02:35.800 like to say. 1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:40.680 We have social problems going on all over the world, 1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:48.120 all over the country, social problems affecting predominantly black people. 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:52.880 A lot of time or not giving the resources and 1:02:53.000 --> 1:02:59.880 not giving the pressing a president Joe Biden christology political leaves, 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:04.680 but it's wresting a lot of social problems, but it's 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:08.280 being left out a lot of times. It's it's criminal 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:14.240 justice systems and the way that if you handles black 1:03:14.320 --> 1:03:18.600 people on a native dating judges in the court, they're 1:03:18.800 --> 1:03:24.680 not taking seriously a litigation done by indigent decent. They're 1:03:24.760 --> 1:03:29.040 not taking seriously a litigation done for who are are 1:03:29.040 --> 1:03:34.800 almost poor. It has changed. You can't continue to run 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:38.520 a system, operate as a state, as a country, as 1:03:38.560 --> 1:03:43.760 a nation. You can't continue to operate with historically agreeable 1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:49.440 for people who are being adversity affected by the workings 1:03:49.760 --> 1:03:53.880 in the working bureaucratic inside of the system. 1:04:00.520 --> 1:04:03.520 Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to 1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:07.320 thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wardis, 1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:10.520 with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:13.840 was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 1:04:14.160 --> 1:04:17.640 Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:21.600 on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 1:04:21.680 --> 1:04:24.760 wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:27.880 all three platforms. You can also follow me on both 1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:32.120 TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flamm Wrongful Conviction is 1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:34.840 the production of Lava for Good podcast and association with 1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:36.200 Signal Company Number one