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Speaker 1: On April twenty ninth, two thousand and seven, two masked

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Speaker 1: gunmen entered a trailer home occupied by a group of

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Speaker 1: undocumented workers in Slide Down, Louisiana and demanded their cash.

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Speaker 1: When Jose Carlos Martinez Carpio didn't comply, he was fatally

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Speaker 1: shot and a gunman fled in a Chevy Tahoe. The

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Speaker 1: witnesses described a gunman as two black men around five

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Speaker 1: eight to five ten with no tattoos. Two men were

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Speaker 1: reported disposing of a gun outside of a Chevy Tahoe,

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Speaker 1: and testing confirmed that that gun was the murder weapon.

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Speaker 1: The investigation led to seventeen year old Glenn Carter, who

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Speaker 1: confessed to the crime in exchanged for leniency, saying that

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Speaker 1: his accomplice was a guy named E. Police approached one

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Speaker 1: of Carter's known associates, Ezra Cooper, who offered a trade

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Speaker 1: information about two more assailants for leniency. But in a

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Speaker 1: crime involving only two assailants, wasn't such lies just be ignored,

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Speaker 1: especially when those lies change repeatedly to adapt a new evidence.

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Speaker 1: When two different sets of facts were needed to convict

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Speaker 1: the actual purpose and these other two guys, A judge

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Speaker 1: would never let that slide, right, you would think, but

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Speaker 1: this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today

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Speaker 1: we're headed to the incarceration capital of the most incarcerated

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Speaker 1: nation in the world, and of course I'm talking about Louisiana.

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Speaker 1: And today's case involves four men convicted separately for the

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Speaker 1: same crime. Two were admittedly guilty, while the other two

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Speaker 1: were wrongfully convicted, and each conviction involved a slightly or

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Speaker 1: entirely different set of quote unquote facts. And we hope

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Speaker 1: for justice to be served for both of the wrongly

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Speaker 1: convicted men. One of them is with us today, Jase Washington,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. All yeah, we

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. And with him his peers advocate Izia Free,

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Speaker 1: who was alerted to this insane injustice while during COVID

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Speaker 1: taking a break from law school writing articles about the

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Speaker 1: criminal legal system. Now she just passed the bar, but

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Speaker 1: instead of following the corporate law route that she had

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Speaker 1: originally charted and planned for herself, she's diving into her

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Speaker 1: very first criminal case pro bono. So, Izzy, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Thank you so Jase. Before we launch into

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Speaker 1: everything that's wrong with the criminal legal system in Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: especially in Saint Tamminy Parish, and your case in particular,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to get to know you a bit well.

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Speaker 2: I was born in Probley, Louisiana. My mother and my

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Speaker 2: father separated when I was younger, so I had kind

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Speaker 2: of been going back and forth between them and wait

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Speaker 2: to see permanent my fall the Ondell and we'll playing

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Speaker 2: a lot of sports baseball, basketball, football, or Leydon.

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Speaker 1: And I got a skateboardings so you were living a

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Speaker 1: very active lifestyle and Slide Dell, Louisiana with your dad.

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Speaker 1: And to make better sense of this story, our audience

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Speaker 1: might want to take a look at Slide Dell on

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Speaker 1: a map. Now, most people are familiar with New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: of course, which is on the south side of Lake

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Speaker 1: Pontre Train. Slide Dell, on the other hand, is just

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Speaker 1: across the lake to the northeast from New Orleans at

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Speaker 1: another fifteen minutes east to Long Eye ten brings you

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Speaker 1: right into Mississippi. If you go west over the north

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Speaker 1: side of Lake Pontre Train, you go further into Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: where Jace used to go to a skate park. So

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Speaker 1: skateboarding was big for you as was basketball. Right, How

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Speaker 1: tall are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm about four.

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Speaker 1: So six three sixty four definitely not around five to nine.

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Speaker 1: Along with a number of other physical characteristics, I should

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Speaker 1: have disqualified you as a suspect in this crime, and

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Speaker 1: also as evidenced by your squeaky clean record prior to this,

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Speaker 1: if I understand correctly, you had never been in trouble

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Speaker 1: with the law in a place where I understand it's

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Speaker 1: a difficult maze to navigate for a young black man

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Speaker 1: just to emerge unscathed.

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Speaker 2: Right, I've payed out of trouble that wasn't in my faith.

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Speaker 2: Being in Saint Kamney Tarandeine in Louisiana is a very

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Speaker 2: very peculiar situation for young black people, especially young black males.

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Speaker 2: You have higher chances of being disadvantaged by the system

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Speaker 2: coming out and scathed. It's rather hard whether you're a

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Speaker 2: terrible person, a troublemaker, or you're not. I was not.

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Speaker 1: No, you were not not even a smudge on your record.

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Speaker 1: You are a great student athlete who simply had one

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Speaker 1: unfortunate acquaintance. And we're going to get to that in

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Speaker 1: a minute, but first, in Louisiana from the Post Reconstruction

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Speaker 1: era straight on through to a ballid INITIAI of the past.

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Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, Jase and so many others, countless others

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Speaker 1: were or could have been convicted by a non unanimous jury,

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Speaker 1: first by a jury of get this nine out of twelve.

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Speaker 1: Then they changed it too. Eventually they changed it to

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Speaker 1: ten out of twelve. And the reason I don't want

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Speaker 1: to insult anybody's intelligens because you probably already figured it out.

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Speaker 1: So they could disenfranchise black jurors and to make use

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Speaker 1: of the Thirteenth Amendment slavery loophole as punishment for a crime,

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Speaker 1: whether the person was guilty or not. Now, in covering

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Speaker 1: this case, I came upon a person who helped to

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Speaker 1: organize that twenty eighteen ballot initiative. She's very active in

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Speaker 1: Saint Tammany and remembers Jason's trial.

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Speaker 3: Well, my name is Belinda Parker Brown. I'm with Louisiana

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Speaker 3: United International, with a civil constitutional human rights organization that

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Speaker 3: focus on the injustice and the criminal justice system. Our

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Speaker 3: organization is responsible for nicknaming this racist, unconstitutional Jim Crow law,

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Speaker 3: this non unanimous jury verdict. Nicknamed it ten to two.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was so happy to see that happen

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Speaker 1: during the twenty eighteen mid terms. But here we are,

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Speaker 1: just after the twenty twenty two midterms, in which there

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Speaker 1: were ballid issues all over the country where voters were

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Speaker 1: given the opportunity to end the Thirteenth Amendment slavery loophole

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Speaker 1: in their states, and that measure was approved by the

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Speaker 1: way and all of the other states that voted on

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Speaker 1: it except for one, Louisiana. But Louisiana is not alone,

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Speaker 1: far from it and still benefiting from slave labor. And

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Speaker 1: it needs to stop in every state, especially when you

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Speaker 1: have entire parishes or counties in this country seemingly devoted

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Speaker 1: to pumping out one wrongful conviction after another. And of course,

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Speaker 1: no one is more vulnerable to the machinery of our

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Speaker 1: criminal legal system than the poor.

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Speaker 3: They wind up taking a plea to things that they

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Speaker 3: did not do. And that's what they were doing here

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Speaker 3: in Saint Tammany, forcing, threatening, badgering young black men to

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Speaker 3: take pleas to things that they did not do, just

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Speaker 3: because they could not afford attorney. And because of that,

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Speaker 3: the lead district attorney, Walter Reed, nicknamed this parish Saint

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Speaker 3: Tammany Saint slammony, and that became something that they'd celebrated

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Speaker 3: here in this paragh, especially when the reelections and all

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Speaker 3: of that stuff would come around. You know, they was

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Speaker 3: tough on crime. And you know if you come over

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Speaker 3: here with your chie wei's and your dreadlocks, and you

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Speaker 3: know we're gonna get you, We're gonna lock you up

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Speaker 3: and throw the key away.

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Speaker 1: Right. I read the quote that I believe you're referring to,

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Speaker 1: and at first I couldn't believe it was real because

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Speaker 1: of just the naked racism of it. It was from

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Speaker 1: the Saint Tammany Sheriff Sheriff Jack Strain, and this is

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Speaker 1: the guy who had been in powered there since nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five. He was running for reelection in twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: just after Jason's conviction, and on the campaign trail he said,

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Speaker 1: and this is a direct quote, he said, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: New Orleans chooses to coddle criminals in that area that

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Speaker 1: tend to get away with a great deal. End quote.

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Speaker 1: And first off, No Orleans Parish between Harry Connock Senior

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Speaker 1: and Leon Canazaro was notorious. But back to the quote

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Speaker 1: he said, quote, we will not coddle that trash in

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Speaker 1: Saint Tammany Parish. If you're going to walk the streets

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Speaker 1: with dreadlocks and chewy hairstyles, then you can expect to

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Speaker 1: get a visit from a sheriff's deputy.

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Speaker 3: Everybody knew who he was talking about. It was the

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Speaker 3: most profound racial sickness that can come out of a

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Speaker 3: person's mouth that really, you know, inspired me to begin

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Speaker 3: to protest against the sheriff's jail. It's like a god

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Speaker 3: forsaken hellhole.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: People were being beat and raped and committing so called suicide.

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Speaker 3: And he had something that we nicknamed them the squirrel cages.

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Speaker 1: These squirrel cages were these three by three or four

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Speaker 1: by four foot cells. I mean they were like phone boots, basically,

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Speaker 1: nowhere to move, just you could just stand still pretty much,

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Speaker 1: and of course no plumbing.

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Speaker 3: In these squirrel cages. They would defecate on themselves. They

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Speaker 3: would put them in their butt naked for weeks. You know,

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Speaker 3: people would just say, okay, I'll do whatever you want

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Speaker 3: me to do. I'll say it, you know, I just

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Speaker 3: want to get this.

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Speaker 1: Over with, and using torture tactics like these pretty much

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Speaker 1: insures that law enforce will get whatever statement they want

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Speaker 1: to fix a rig a case. So add to that

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Speaker 1: to ninety nineimus jury verdicts, and you've got a system

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Speaker 1: fixed to maintain a ninety eight percent conviction rate. These

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Speaker 1: are the tactics that they used in Jas's case, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that in a bit. So, Belinda, after

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Speaker 1: Jason had already gone to Prisident and Sheriff's strain had

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Speaker 1: made these comments while campaigning, your organization had taken to

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Speaker 1: the streets to protest.

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Speaker 3: Doing the protest on public property, they came out and

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Speaker 3: told us to get off of their land. And at

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Speaker 3: that particular time, my youngest son, because he was videotaping

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Speaker 3: for us at that protest, they the arrested him and

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Speaker 3: put him inside of one of those squirrel cages. And

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Speaker 3: literally that put the gasoline on my fire to go

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Speaker 3: after these people for the wrongdoing.

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Speaker 1: So if you take nothing else away from this story,

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Speaker 1: it's that you shouldn't fuck with Belinda. So, the two

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Speaker 1: people most responsible for Jason's wrongful conviction and countless others,

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Speaker 1: the DA Walter Reid, got convicted of a number of

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Speaker 1: financial crimes, and from what I understand, those were the

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Speaker 1: ones that the FBI could make stick. But the sheriff, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you tell.

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Speaker 3: It, Jack Strain. He would spend the rest of his

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Speaker 3: life in prison. This sheriff was just a very sick,

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Speaker 3: sick man.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: As an organizer, you know, people would come to me

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Speaker 3: with these stories and I would like try to vet

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Speaker 3: what they're saying. After we dug up everything that we

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Speaker 3: possibly could on him. And it was over thirty three

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Speaker 3: witnesses that was coming forth saying that the sheriff was raped,

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Speaker 3: been people inside of the jail. He was charged with incests,

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Speaker 3: raping and molesting his own family members.

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Speaker 1: It's an absolute horror show, and it somehow gets worse.

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Speaker 1: This sheriff was also brought up on bribery charges. They

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Speaker 1: were privatizing the work release program basically slave trading under

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Speaker 1: a different name, and he was getting kickbacks from those

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Speaker 1: contending to take it private. Just it's unreal. Meanwhile, of

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Speaker 1: course he was out there putting these people in squirrel cages,

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Speaker 1: in these literal torture cages to supply fresh bodies for

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Speaker 1: this slave trade.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know if the people are aware

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Speaker 3: that the state and the federal government give so much

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Speaker 3: money to the jails and prison and you got to

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Speaker 3: be at least at ninety seven percent occupancy before you

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Speaker 3: can receive the federal and state funding.

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Speaker 1: So not only did this sheriff Strain have his own

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Speaker 1: the various incentive to keep convictions up as of course

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Speaker 1: to the DA seeking re election, but there's literally also

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Speaker 1: a financial incentive from the state and federal government to

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Speaker 1: keep up the supply of fresh bodies in a center.

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Speaker 1: Not that same vile and perverse incentive leads many municipalities

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Speaker 1: all over this country to operate this way, torturing or

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Speaker 1: coursing statements from not only the quote unquote suspects, but

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Speaker 1: witnesses as well.

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Speaker 3: Jack Halstead was one of the corrupt prosecutors and that

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Speaker 3: prosecuted Jase that was known for badgering and threatening witnesses

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Speaker 3: and tell them say if you don't say what it

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Speaker 3: is we want you to say. You know, you're gonna

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Speaker 3: get your kids taken away from you. You're not going

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Speaker 3: to be able to get a job. They literally made

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Speaker 3: people lives miserable. You know, we got people that would

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Speaker 3: testify to that their doors and stuff were kicked in.

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Speaker 1: Again, you've heard these tactics before on this show, and

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Speaker 1: if police have never threatened you or coursed you this way,

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Speaker 1: maybe you'd be inclined to believe the things they say

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Speaker 1: in court and find yourself among the ten out of

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Speaker 1: twelve who consistently voted to convict. And so as we

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Speaker 1: begin to talk about this case in which there were

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Speaker 1: two assailants, you'll see how these two now disgraced former

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Speaker 1: elected officials, along with the Jim Crow era practice of

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Speaker 1: non unanimous juries, were all integral to Jace's conviction, as

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Speaker 1: well as the perverse incentives locally for the sheriff, of course,

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Speaker 1: and from the state of federal government. And how and

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Speaker 1: why these nefarious actors in Saint Tammany Parish would decide

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Speaker 1: to prosecute four young men in a case in which

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Speaker 1: there were only two assailants. The two actual admitted assailants

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Speaker 1: were Glenn Carter and Edrick Cooper. Grant Gathers and our guest,

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Speaker 1: Jace Washington were in addition to what was even called

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Speaker 1: for now. Jace, you didn't even know Glenn, right, but

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Speaker 1: I understand that you did know Grant and Edric.

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Speaker 2: All of us went to school together, you know, create

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Speaker 2: basketball and school together. Grant were a little a little

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Speaker 2: more than a quaintance's closest.

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Speaker 1: Than ed and from what I understand, they both had

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Speaker 1: a criminal record. Edric has admitted to making a habit

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Speaker 1: of trading false or real information for freedom and his

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Speaker 1: general occupation of petty theft and grant had been convicted

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Speaker 1: once before, but his experience with the system in Saint

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Speaker 1: Tammany played into his decision once they came after him

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Speaker 1: for this. So that brings us to April twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. This crime happened in Slide El, Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: just on the north side of Lake Poncher Trade from

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Speaker 1: New Orleans, where five or six undocumented workers were living

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Speaker 1: in the trailer as a home base for their day

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Speaker 1: labor jobs in New Orleans. Now being undocumented, these guys

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Speaker 1: carried cash and were not likely to go to law

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Speaker 1: enforcement if they were robbed, which made them easy targets. So,

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Speaker 1: according to the initial statements from the victim's friends, two

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Speaker 1: gunmen came into the trailer demanding money. The victim, Jose

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Speaker 1: Carlos Martinez Carpio, had trouble understanding with the language barrier

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Speaker 1: and attacked the gunman with a kitchen knife or something

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Speaker 1: and he was fatally shot. The assailants then fled, leaving

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Speaker 1: the rest of the men in the trailer stunned and

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Speaker 1: grieving as well as in It was impossibly precarious predicament,

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Speaker 1: so some time went by before they called the police.

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Speaker 1: The first nine one one call was at nine to

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Speaker 1: seventeen PM.

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Speaker 2: It was a yap there to God think next door

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Speaker 2: to them ended up calling nine one one. That's what

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Speaker 2: he explained, that another child that minutes had passed time

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Speaker 2: had passed from the time of the shots by and

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Speaker 2: been on when one called, because they were trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what.

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Speaker 1: To do, and I want to bring Izzy in here now.

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Speaker 1: Some of the witnesses in the trailer that night were

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Speaker 1: interviewed by the police, right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think all of them were actually interviewed. But

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Speaker 4: there were some of them that said that they heard

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Speaker 4: the gunshot. They closed their doors and did not come

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Speaker 4: outside at all. But there were two people who said

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Speaker 4: that they described seeing two people, the gunmen, enter the

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Speaker 4: mobile home. They had their faces covered, but their arms

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Speaker 4: were bare, and they could tell that they were black men.

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Speaker 4: The taller of the two men went into the kitchen

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Speaker 4: area and then they heard gunshots coming from the kitchen area,

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Speaker 4: and the shorter gunman who was at the door, he

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Speaker 4: was nervous and so he fired his weapon onto the floor,

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Speaker 4: and then he also fled the area.

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Speaker 1: So the gunman fled. The two witnesses are Echo, Gooyan

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Speaker 1: and Avola. They said that one gunman was taller than

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Speaker 1: the other, but not by much.

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Speaker 4: They said that they were similar to their height, which

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Speaker 4: was about five eight and five ten foot tall. Jayce

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Speaker 4: stands about six four feet tall and Carter and Cooper

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Speaker 4: is about five eight five ten feet tall. Now, jas

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Speaker 4: is a black man, but he is extremely light skinned.

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Speaker 4: Carter is a little darker. The witnesses that were inside

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Speaker 4: the home saw the arms of the assailants, said no,

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Speaker 4: they didn't have any tattoos. But if you look at

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Speaker 4: Jays he has clearly visible tattoos on both arms.

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Speaker 1: So that's three major features right there that don't match

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Speaker 1: the witness's descriptions that should have been right there. These

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Speaker 1: are things that are not subject to the pitfalls of misidentification.

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Speaker 1: You can't really mistake no tattoos for tattoos, dramatic contrasted

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Speaker 1: skin tone and six four for five eight.

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Speaker 4: The two people that they saw in the mobile home.

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Speaker 4: Did not mash the description of Jace Washington.

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Speaker 1: Or Grand Gathers for that matter.

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Speaker 4: No, they mashed the description of Cooper and Carter right.

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Speaker 1: But at this point, the cops just had two black

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Speaker 1: men five eight and five ten, dark skin, no tattoos,

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Speaker 1: both with guns, faces recovered. I believe they mentioned as

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Speaker 1: Chevy Tahoe according to a report written by one of

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Speaker 1: the detectives in this case, a detective calendar. Other witnesses

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Speaker 1: reported the Chevy Tahoe as well.

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Speaker 4: Right April thirtieth, there was an eyewitness that reported two

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Speaker 4: black males in a car very close to the crime area.

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Speaker 4: One of the black males exit the car and appear

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Speaker 4: to be hiding a weapon in the bushes. The officers

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Speaker 4: they were able to retrieve the gun and then trace

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Speaker 4: the gun to one of the guns that was used

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Speaker 4: in that robbery, and that's what led officers to arrest

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Speaker 4: Carter in the first place.

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Speaker 1: So they zeroed in on seventeen year old Glenn Carter

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Speaker 1: a few days later on May third, when he was

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Speaker 1: thrown into a squirrel cage, and I believe he was

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Speaker 1: facing the death penalty. So it's not a hard decision

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Speaker 1: to cooperate. He confessed to the crime, giving a very

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Speaker 1: similar story as to witnesses, and gave up the name

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Speaker 1: E for the initial E as his accomplice. Now, the

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Speaker 1: police were already familiar with eighteen year old Edrick Cooper

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Speaker 1: as a known associate of Glenn Carter from previous running,

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Speaker 1: so this was basically all the corroboration they needed to

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Speaker 1: go scoop him up.

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Speaker 2: Who were he was wanted by the detectives already all

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Speaker 2: a week earlier they had been looking for him. That

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Speaker 2: was the way they were able to identify who Glenn

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Speaker 2: Carter was talking about his accompanies.

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Speaker 4: So on May fifth, Edrick Cooper he also confessed, but

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Speaker 4: he told the officers that there were two other people

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Speaker 4: who were with him, Jason Washington and Grant Gethers.

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Speaker 2: By Carter implicating him him already being wanted, pulled two

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Speaker 2: names out the air try to relieve some of the

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Speaker 2: trouble that he was in. It could have been anybody,

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Speaker 2: as peoplework from other witnesses that was interviewed by detectives,

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Speaker 2: they say he added four or three other names. You know,

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Speaker 2: if the detectives knew Cooper was not telling the truth,

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Speaker 2: because there were things that they already knew that Cooper

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Speaker 2: did not realize they knew right.

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Speaker 1: And as I mentioned earlier, this was Cooper's m O

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Speaker 1: to trade false information for freedom. Saint Tammany police knew

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Speaker 1: that from previous interactions, but they were more than happy

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Speaker 1: to work with him anyway.

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Speaker 2: In the unrelated prime, the same thing happened. I witnesses

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Speaker 2: gave descriptions that sid Carter and Cooper called a told

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Speaker 2: on Cooper again, and when detectives asked Cooper about it,

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Speaker 2: he implicated a third party, and eyewitnesses descriptions that they

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Speaker 2: gave did not hit this third party. All the numbers assailings,

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Speaker 2: that number of sus that were seen in this other

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Speaker 2: unrelated prime.

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Speaker 1: Yep, DejaVu all over again. And as we spoke about already,

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Speaker 1: Saint Tammany, the sheriff, the DA, they all had their

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Speaker 1: own list of incentives to work with Cooper, and none

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Speaker 1: of them were truth, justice or public safety. So what

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Speaker 1: we're going to see unfold here is the prosecution of

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Speaker 1: Glenn Carter on the basis of the witness statements from

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Speaker 1: the trailer and his own confession. Then Edrick Cooper pled

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Speaker 1: guilty under the same set of facts and then Jace

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Speaker 1: gets prosecuted under a totally different narrative. The jury was

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Speaker 1: kept completely in the dark, and Cooper was allowed to

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Speaker 1: change the details and manipulate the narrative over time in

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Speaker 1: order to implicate two more young men, Jason Grant, in

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Speaker 1: a crime in which there were only two assailants. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the ever changing false narrative of Edrick Cooper.

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Speaker 4: The initial statement that he gave, he said all four

375
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Speaker 4: of them rode to the crime scene in Carter's vehicle.

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Speaker 4: He said that he had a black nine millimeter luger,

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Speaker 4: Jace had a thirty eight, and Carter had a forty five.

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Speaker 4: He said, Jace and Carter entered the trailer and Cooper

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Speaker 4: and Grant stood outside as the lookouts. And so when

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Speaker 4: they heard the gunshot, that's when they all started running

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Speaker 4: and they drove out of the crime scene, all four

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Speaker 4: of them in Carter's car. That's the story that he

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Speaker 4: told the officers.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Carter, and the trailer witnesses said that Carter, the

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Speaker 1: taller of the two gunmen, went into the kitchen, while

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Speaker 1: the shorter gunman stayed in the front by the door.

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Speaker 1: First of all, if Jace was one of the gunmen,

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Speaker 1: then he most certainly would have been the taller one

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Speaker 1: by far. Jace being six four is an irreconcilable truth

390
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Speaker 1: on its face, as are the tattoos. Then you have

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Speaker 1: the witnesses that reported seeing the gun drop outside the tahoe,

392
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Speaker 1: and just like Glenn Carter and the witnesses from the trailer,

393
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Speaker 1: they also only reported seeing two men. So despite what

394
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Speaker 1: detectives with any sort of moral compass should have done,

395
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Speaker 1: they got an a the rest warrant for Jase and

396
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Speaker 1: the search warrant for Jace's father's house. Now, remember we

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Speaker 1: have Glenn Carter with the murder weapon of forty five,

398
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Speaker 1: then Jace allegedly with a thirty eight, and Edric Cooper

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Speaker 1: outside with a nine millimeter Luger.

400
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 4: So Jason's father legally owned a nine millimeter Ruger handgun.

401
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 4: So when they found that gun, Cooper changed his statement

402
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 4: to say.

403
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Speaker 1: Ruger, So Ruger not Luger.

404
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 4: And then he also changed his statement to say that

405
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Speaker 4: it wasn't him, it was Jase that had that gun.

406
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Speaker 1: Okay. So, now, with Jas's plausible access to his father's

407
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Speaker 1: Ruger not Luger Ruger, Cooper has not only to change

408
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Speaker 1: the brand of gun, but also to switch gun placements

409
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Speaker 1: between him and jas So in this version of events,

410
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Speaker 1: Cooper was allegedly outside now with the thirty eight. Now,

411
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Speaker 1: didn't the trailer witness to say that the gunman by

412
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Speaker 1: the front door had fired his weapon into the floor.

413
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Speaker 4: Yes, the thirty eight gun was actually fired in the trailer,

414
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 4: So Cooper changed the statement to include him and Grant

415
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: Gathers all in the trailer, four people in the trailer

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Speaker 4: instead of just two people that he had initially said.

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Speaker 1: So the only thing from his initial statement that remained

418
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Speaker 1: the same, and the only thing that was consistent with

419
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Speaker 1: Glenn Carter's statement, was that Glenn Carter used the forty five.

420
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Speaker 1: Other than that, the brand of nine millimeter changed, as

421
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: did who was holding it in order to match what

422
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: the police had found at Jace's father's house, And then

423
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Speaker 1: the number of people in the trailer had to change

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Speaker 1: in order to make room for the fact that the

425
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Speaker 1: thirty eight had been fired, as well as the change

426
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Speaker 1: of who was holding what gun. Jace allegedly with his

427
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Speaker 1: father's ruger and Cooper firing the thirty eight into the ground,

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Speaker 1: as the witnesses in the trailer had said.

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Speaker 4: And as you had mentioned earlier, a lot of those

430
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Speaker 4: people that lived inside the home were immigrants that did

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Speaker 4: not have the proper authorization to remain in the United States.

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Speaker 4: So right after the incident happened, they were all arrested

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Speaker 4: and detained. They were detained until December of that same year,

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Speaker 4: when who I believe is the current DA of Saint

435
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 4: Tammany Parish filed a petition with the court and said

436
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 4: that these guys were victims and so did not deserve

437
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: to be detained and they had to be released. After

438
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 4: they were released, one of those people also started change

439
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: in history.

440
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: The current DA is Warren Montgomery, and he worked with

441
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: the Public Defender's Office at the time. Now one of

442
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: the undocumented workers, either at Kagoyan or Avola change their

443
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: story to maybe possibly include a third or fourth assailant

444
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: to give the state the wiggle room they needed to

445
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: eventually prosecute Jason Grant. But back to the immediate aftermath,

446
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: So both you and Grant were about to be arrested.

447
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: They end up coming to pick me up from my

448
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: home the next day. You don't have enough money for

449
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: an attorney. It took us a long time to figure

450
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: out what was being said and who's shit.

451
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: So no money for an attorney means no money for bail,

452
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: and you've got no information about why you're even there.

453
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what must have been going through

454
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: your mind.

455
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: They take you in the shack world. Cages are full,

456
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: some of them have two or three people in them.

457
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: Some of them still have handcuffs on. You know, I'm

458
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: nineteen years old and I'm trying to proston what's going

459
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 2: on law. They put me right into one of those

460
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: world keys, and I'm still trying to figure out how

461
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: did I get here.

462
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 5: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

463
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

464
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 5: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

465
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 5: in the communities where we work and live. In light

466
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 5: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and

467
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

468
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 5: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

469
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 5: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.

470
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: Four was set It in two, Four Black Bodies Set

471
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 2: It in two, and at Seeing revealed that work against

472
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: the detective theories. All they did wasdiated change and this

473
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: could have been remedied from the beginning if Detective State Calendar,

474
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: Detective Cannon Garrow had done their job.

475
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: And it seems they might have been doing their job.

476
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: It's just not the job that they pretend it is

477
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: in public. So you were stuck in jail awaiting trial

478
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: with one piece of information or report from Detective Calendar

479
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: about the investigation. Meanwhile they were out there trying to

480
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: fix the case against you. So they tried to corroborate

481
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: Edric Cooper's narrative and they had to change it several

482
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: times by now already just to fit the facts.

483
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 4: And then DNA evidence was also conducted because he had

484
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: said that they rode in an out in Carter's car,

485
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: and he said Carter gave them certain items from his car,

486
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: like a bandana and items to cover their faces. They

487
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 4: seized Carter's car, tested it thoroughly for DNA evidence. There

488
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 4: is not a single instant where Jason's or Grant gathers

489
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 4: DNA was found in any of the items that were

490
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 4: found in Carter's car or anything in Carter's.

491
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: Car which had they been in there. Finding neither of

492
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: their DNA. That's not plausible, maybe not even possible.

493
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 4: Yes, So Cooper then changes the story to say that

494
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 4: Grant and Jace were in one car, and he and

495
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: Carter were in Carter's car.

496
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: That's convenient, so okay, boom, a new, non existent, nondescript

497
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: car gets introduced. What's odd, though, is that this narrative

498
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: is only present in Jas's case. Great Gathers, on the

499
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: other hand, had a prior and had he gone to trial,

500
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: he could have got life, so he pled guilty in

501
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: exchange for leniency. Understandably in his plea though, he copped

502
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: to being in the Chevy Tahoe, but because he didn't

503
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: fight it, the fact that DNA testing excluded him from

504
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: the Tahoe didn't matter. He just took the seven years

505
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: or whatever they gave him to get out of his

506
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: squirrel cage, and Jace would have been out in like

507
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, twenty twenty the latest had he done the same.

508
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: They never in a million years expected me to go

509
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: to trial and fight. They were expecting me to be guilty.

510
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 4: From the moment that he was arrested. All that they

511
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 4: wanted him to do was just say you're guilty. Just

512
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: say you did it, so then we give you a

513
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 4: man's a lot of charge and you probably get like

514
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 4: ten years. And he kept insisting that he's not going

515
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 4: to plead guilty to something that he hadn't done.

516
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: They tried to at least three or four times after

517
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: I asked for an attorney, which is unconstitutional. The Texas

518
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: State's Canada technique candidero. They would send try to send

519
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: different people in there to give me to make a succession.

520
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: At one point, you've been telling me when I asked

521
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: for my attorney, oh, well, you're going to have a

522
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: public spending. The public desfendant doesn't care about you, so

523
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: it is your best interest to just go ahead. And

524
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I, oh my lord. You know, at

525
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: this point, I'm kind of im agitated. I want my

526
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: lawd So after a while of that, they finally keep

527
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: me in for processing. On my way out to former

528
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: Sheriff Jack Strain made Tommy said, this is a New Orleans.

529
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: You know at this time I had the chipy streadlocked Testyle.

530
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Strain was very clear about his views and his

531
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: reelection campaign in twenty ten. He equated the chieweed dreadlock

532
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: Hairstyle with criminal behavior, and it's probably why he operated

533
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: the way he did. So the squirrel cage didn't work

534
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: on you, reasoning with you about how you're going to

535
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: get terrible representation hadn't worked.

536
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: What happened next I was taken out of the world

537
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: cage and I was placed in the whole phanati days,

538
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: couldn't see the news. I had to ask someone friend

539
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: of mine to send me internet print out of an

540
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: article to just kind of get an understanding of what

541
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: exactly they was saying was going on, because we still

542
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on.

543
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't think they knew what was going on because

544
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: they hadn't decided on the narrative that they were going

545
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: to frame me with yet. So you got out of

546
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: the whole after ninety days, met with your public defender,

547
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: and finally got to see a report from Detective Stacey Calendar.

548
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: What years later we find out that a lot of

549
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: the stuff she put in that first investigative report was

550
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: dedignated and fabricated. She fabricated witnesses statements evidence. She changes

551
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: the descriptions into our witnesses guilds. She changes things that

552
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Cooper tells her. She just changes things throughout her investigative

553
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: report to make their investigations seem tighter. And what she's

554
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: saying in her report and the investigations done by the detectives,

555
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: it's not magic goal.

556
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: And like you said, you didn't find this out until

557
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: years later. Unfortunately, you did not have the benefit of

558
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: effective counsel or the opportunity to review those materials to

559
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: make that comparison yourself. Certainly, neither your first public defender,

560
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: James Tally, or your second, Melissa Brink, were able to

561
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: develop a defense outlining the discrepancies between detective calendars report

562
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: and the actual investigation.

563
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: For maybe a year and a half, the only thing

564
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: I had was her investigated report. This restricted her words.

565
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: I had no witness trances or witness statements or anything

566
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: like that. So I'm trying to build a defense off

567
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: of what's in this report. And then maybe a two

568
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: months before trial two thousand and nine, did come back,

569
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: and now all of a sudden, that's changed.

570
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 4: You know.

571
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: I got up an open court and I explained to

572
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: Judge Richard Schwartz what was Kaye's place, And the answer

573
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: he gave me was Melissa bringing handle it, and that

574
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: assessionly turned out to be very, very, very incorrect.

575
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was handling what like three hundred and seventy

576
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: eight cases. I mean, I gotta pause there again, that's

577
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: crazy when she should have had I mean, even one

578
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty would have been an incredible strain on anyone.

579
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: The ineffective counsel was virtually guaranteed, as it is with

580
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: so many indigent defendants all over the country, the constitutional

581
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: violation is built right in. So Glenn Carter went to

582
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: try out first, followed by Edrick Cooper, then you, then Grant,

583
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: and all four of you were found guilty separately, and

584
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean very separately. And can you explain what I'm

585
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: talking about?

586
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: Well, First, Glenn Carr was fried August two thousand and eight.

587
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: He was convicted with evidence of only him and Edrick.

588
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 5: Cooper committing his crime, right, so consistent with the original

589
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 5: witness statements and his own admission.

590
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: Right, there was no evidence presented by the state of

591
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: three and four other people. The next day, after Glen

592
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: Carter was convicted, Edwick Cooper played guilty, but onder the

593
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: factual basis that it was only him and Carter who

594
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: committed the crime.

595
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: So everything that Glenn Carter and Edrick Cooper copp to

596
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: at their proceedings exonerated deal you earned even mentioned in

597
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: those proceedings. What about his statement that was eventually used

598
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: against you?

599
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: The next day, after pleading guilty, the detectives took him

600
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: for the attorney's office, another slow location. No one's turned

601
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: and nobody knows where they went to reinterview him, And

602
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, miraculously, this second statement comes up,

603
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: and it seeks to validate the initial investigation that it's

604
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: not a repeating.

605
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: So Cooper's initial statement, which served as the probable cause

606
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: to arrest you and search your father's house, in which

607
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: he admitted to his involvement, that was not even brought

608
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: up at his proceedings, probably because it was so wildly

609
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: and completely out of step with reality. But now they

610
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: needed a new statement that wasn't so obviously false that

611
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: included you and Grant Gathers. And the only thing about

612
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: this new statement that even vaguely resembled the initial statement

613
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: was that you two were there and the Carter used

614
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: a forty five. They also now had one of the

615
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: trailer witnesses allegedly giving them that wiggle room of well

616
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: maybe there was a third or fourth assailant. Who knows

617
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: if this change was just a translator taking some sort

618
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: of creative license, I mean, could have been. But how

619
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: did the judge even allow this to go on? We're

620
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: talking about the narrative of a crime that have just

621
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: appeared twice in front of the court.

622
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: Judge Purist, the judge that did Carters trial and the

623
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: Coopers pleat once he took the plea from Pedrick Cooper

624
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: said an open court on the record that he was

625
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: recognizing these as stipulated facts. Basically, he used the legal

626
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: term he was taking judicial notice, which is he saying

627
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: he's taking these facts that he's been watching throughout the

628
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: Carter proceedings and now at this Cooper proceeding, he's saying, Okay,

629
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: this is what y'all are saying happened in this crime.

630
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: These are the facts of the case. So Judge Juris

631
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: was not going to excel the facts that were presented

632
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: at my trial. And what happened was I was miraculously

633
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: taking out a judge Buris court and placed some entirely

634
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: different set action where a different set of facts were

635
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: consitting to a different judge saying that Hey, two completely

636
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: irreconcilable names happened in this case.

637
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just can't have two contradicting narrators of the

638
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: same crime. So even though they switched you to a

639
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: different judge, Judge Schwartz, I mean, wouldn't he just see

640
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: the same thing that Burst did. The state must have

641
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: recognized that this was weak footing.

642
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 4: Jason's trial was in October twelve, two thousand and nine.

643
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 4: October nine, they were presenting him with a plea deal

644
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 4: to testify against Grant Gethers, and he said he can't

645
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 4: testify against Grant because he wasn't there.

646
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: So you're sticking to your innocence to the bitter end.

647
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: Did your public defender try to encourage you to take.

648
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: A play the guilty Yes, every day up until October fourteenth,

649
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: two thout a nine was the day I was found guilty.

650
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: And I keep telling her the same thing over and

651
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: over and over again. I'm not too guilty as something

652
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: that I didn't do.

653
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: And just out of curiosity, what did they offer? Ten

654
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: years that was.

655
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: Ultimately grand Gether's decision in uilty to eight years that

656
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 2: was found with guilty of a lesser charge. Grand Gethers

657
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: would have been going to trial for second to he murdered,

658
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: which in Louisiana is a mandatory life citizens no parole.

659
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: So it was a decision between eight years or mandatory

660
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: life with no parole.

661
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: That's pretty easy master to do. And I guess he

662
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: didn't know about the DNA evidence that excluded him from

663
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: ever having entered Glenn Carter Chevy Tahoe. That was a

664
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: part of the narrative of his proceedings. And what about

665
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: the evidence presented in Carter and Cooper's proceedings. You think

666
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: your attorney would be a little more confident and you

667
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: would have fared a lot better at trial. But what happened.

668
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: He tried to get cause of confessions that it's not

669
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: a ray introduced that trial so the jury to hear it.

670
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: The judge shot it down. He said that it wasn't.

671
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: Trustworthy, wasn't trustworthy. They just used it to send two

672
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: men away, one for life.

673
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: It just didn't make any sense. And the dream we

674
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 2: never heard of it. The twelve people at my trial

675
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: still don't know to this state that this succession existed.

676
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: And if they had, there's reasonable likelihoods that I would.

677
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: Have got not guilty burden I mean, what else are

678
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: we supposed to conclude about this? Judge, he saw the

679
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: evidence from the other two proceedings which impeached the testimony

680
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: of the state star witness against you, and he excluded it.

681
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: So now the jury only hears the narrative of Edrick Cooper,

682
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: and they have no idea how many times it changed

683
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: or how fundamental those changes were. And as we've mentioned,

684
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: up until this point, the impeachment evidence for Cooper's testimony

685
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: had not been developed very well by Jason's attorney.

686
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 4: The prosecution, you know, they had the burden, but their

687
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 4: burden was very simple, was just really getting Cooper to

688
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 4: tell the most recent version of events. The defense's job

689
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 4: was probably harder. That she needed to be extremely organized

690
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: to list all those statements that Cooper had said that

691
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 4: weren't true and then actually also do the extra work

692
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 4: to show that even if we're supposed to believe the

693
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 4: last statement that he's given and disregard all the prior

694
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 4: statements that he's saying, this last statement that he's saying

695
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 4: cannot even be true. And she didn't do that. She

696
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 4: didn't have the time to do all the investigation, or

697
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 4: probably didn't have the resources to do the investigations that

698
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 4: she needed to do, and so she went to trial

699
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 4: unprepared and the jury could not follow.

700
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: She didn't effectively demonstrate the whole clusterfuck around the narrative

701
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: changing between Cooper outside the trailer with a nine milimeters

702
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: luger and Jace inside with a thirty eight to then

703
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: Jace with a nine milimeter ruger and all four of

704
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: them inside the trailer. Then you have one witness, likely

705
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: threatened with deportation or worse, changing their story to include

706
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: the possibility of more sailance than the original two, then

707
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: going from one car to two cars because DNA evidence

708
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: excluded Jace. How this issue wasn't raised. It just baffles

709
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: and infuriates me. But then there's this phone record evidence

710
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: that was introduced to draw connection between Jason Glenn Carter,

711
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: but it could have easily been used to impeach Cooper's

712
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: ever changing narrative. Cooper had made statements about how he, Jace,

713
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: and Grant went to Mississippi earlier in the day, when

714
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: the phone records show that Jason Grant had never left Louisiana.

715
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: She could have connected those dots or called an expert

716
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: to extrapolate a clear vision of Cooper's lives from the

717
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: phone record, but again she was just overwhelmed and not

718
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: prepared to do that, which could have been a game changer.

719
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 4: So Cooper had initially told officers that he and Jace

720
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 4: and Grant they had been in Mississippi and then they

721
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 4: returned to Sliddale on Sunday, which was the day of

722
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: the incident, about five or so. What is interesting was

723
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 4: that Jayce had a purchase receipt that showed that he

724
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 4: was already in Louisiana around three pm. So at trial,

725
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 4: Cooper changed the testimony again to say that they arrived

726
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 4: in Slydale at ten am.

727
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: So this appears to be just more of the police

728
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: and edred Cooper perfecting his statement to align with reality,

729
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: and that's what you have to do with live So

730
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: how did they try to connect Jas with Glenn Carter?

731
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 4: Cooper said that when he got to slide Al, he

732
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: called Carter on Jas's phone. He said that that's when

733
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 4: they all got together with Carter and that's when they

734
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 4: planned the robbery together. And then he also said that

735
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: after the robbery, when they were fleeing the area, he

736
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 4: said that Jace called Carter on Carter's phone, and Carter

737
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 4: did not answer, so they asked him how many times

738
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 4: did he call, and he said he called just once.

739
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 4: When all four of them were initially arrested, there were

740
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 4: two numbers that were listed for Carter. One number, the

741
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 4: officers found out quickly was not Carter's number, so they

742
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 4: proceeded with just the remaining number, and so that number

743
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 4: that they proceeded through before Jasu's trial as Carter's number.

744
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 4: That number never appeared on Jas's phone, so.

745
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: Not at either time that Cooper alleged ten am or

746
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: nine eighteen pm. So how did they try to make

747
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: it look like Jason Carter spoke on the phone.

748
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 4: About a week before Jason's trial, the prosecution goes into

749
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 4: Jas's phone, there was a phone call from Jase's number

750
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 4: at nine eighteen so the prosecution presented this number as

751
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 4: Carter's number.

752
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: So the prosecution just took whatever number Jase called around

753
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: the time of the crime and just told the jury

754
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: that that was Carter's number to match up with Cooper's

755
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: latest version of events. So let's try to unravel this one.

756
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 4: Cooper said that when Jace called Carter that Carter did

757
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 4: not answer, but the number that Jace called around nine eighteen.

758
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 4: It shows that the person actually answered and there was

759
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 4: a conversation, and it shows that a few minutes or

760
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 4: so after, Jace called that number again and the person

761
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 4: also answered.

762
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: And so I'm sure our audience won't be surprised to

763
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: find out that the number that they presented as Carter's

764
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: during trial only appeared in the evening, not at ten am,

765
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: as Cooper had said, thereby exposing yet another one of

766
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: this guy's lives.

767
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 4: After trial, Jace, this attorney filed a rid with a

768
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 4: Chord for a subpoena to get that phone record to

769
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 4: verify if that number was Carter's number, the number that

770
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 4: Cooper had testified a trial to be Carter's number, and

771
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 4: that number turned out not to be Carter's number. If

772
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: you read the Court of Appeal's opinion on Jasu's case,

773
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 4: it appears that that's something that they consider to be important.

774
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 4: That the state was able to establish that connection between

775
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 4: Jas and Carter using that phone record. But the phone

776
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 4: record that they presented was in Carter's phone number, and

777
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 4: what the prosecution did was they just presented the number

778
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: and showed it to Cooper a trial and said that,

779
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: whose number is this? And then Cooper goes, this is

780
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 4: Jasu's number. Whose number is this? And then he goes,

781
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: that's Carter's number. Who's the number calling this number? And

782
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 4: it's like Jasu's number calling Carter's number. Then they bring

783
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 4: Carter's girlfriend to the stand. Carter's girlfriend. This is two

784
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 4: years later, two years after this incident had happened. Carter's

785
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 4: girlfriend comes to the stand and then the prosecution asked

786
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 4: her back in April of two thousand and seven, was

787
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 4: Glenn Carter your boyfriend? And she says yes, sir. And

788
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: the prosecution goes and Glenn's Carter's being convicted of murder?

789
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 4: Is that correct? She goes, yes, sir, in April of

790
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 4: two thousand, what was Glenn Carter's phone number? Then she

791
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 4: lists the number that Jays dialed on the night of

792
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 4: the incident. She lists that as Carter's number from memory.

793
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 4: Two years two years she remembered the number like that

794
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 4: from memory. And this is the part where I just

795
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 4: fell so disappointed in Jas's attorney at the time, because

796
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 4: she just basically said, I have no questions. She did

797
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 4: not cross examine this witness to even understand how she

798
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 4: remembered Carter's number. She did not cross examine Cooper to

799
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 4: even find out how he remembered that to be Carter's number.

800
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 4: Two years after the incident happened, she did.

801
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: Find out that this was not in fact Carter's number,

802
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: That both of these witnesses perjured themselves, but too little,

803
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: too late. I've got to imagine that having them memorize

804
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: a number off of Jason's phone that wasn't their friend

805
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: Glenn Carter's had to have been the prosecution's idea. But

806
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: if I were on the jury, I mean, after hearing

807
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: Cooper's testimony, not knowing all the inconsistencies with prior statements

808
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: or how it was contradicted by witness statements, and having

809
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: that testimony corroborated by the phone records, I can see

810
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: how the jury was fooled.

811
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 4: And even with that, there was at least one person

812
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 4: on the jury that said that they didn't believe what

813
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 4: the state was saying. They had that testimony from Cooper.

814
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 4: Cooper's credibility wasn't properly impeached by Jesson's attorney, and they

815
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 4: ended up buying his story over the story that Jas's attorney.

816
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,479
Speaker 4: Because I don't even know what story she was trying

817
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 4: to tell. She didn't put up that defense. There were

818
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 4: so many other people who are willing to testify about

819
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 4: Jason's whereabouts. There were so many other witnesses that she

820
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 4: just didn't call. In the beginning, all that she wanted

821
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 4: to do was for Jase to plead guilty, So she

822
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 4: wasn't prepared for a trial.

823
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: Other than the inadequate and disorganized cross examination. I think

824
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: she put your dad on the stand to say that

825
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: you didn't have access to his gun and that you

826
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: were home at the time of the crime. Unfortunately, alibi

827
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: defense from family rarely does the trek. So other than that,

828
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: did your attorney present any defense at all?

829
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: She called no witnesses, She presented none of the evidence,

830
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 2: none of the fall records, no expert for the Fall Reforce, nothing.

831
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: She did nothing, and she put together no defense to

832
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: actually test the theory and the chinological timeline of Eddie

833
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: Pooble and the state. All of the evidence that I

834
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: have now proving what I'm saying, all of it was

835
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: avid by the state, stuff that they call open discovery,

836
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 2: stuff that she could have pulled, looked at.

837
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: And been able to sit the pool, which just points

838
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: out that the state had to have known what they

839
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: were doing. This was their information and they simply used

840
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: it to guide the actual guilty party to frame an

841
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: innocent man. I mean, did you have any hope after

842
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: shitting through this sham trial?

843
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: Yes, because Cooper admitted to line the day after he

844
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: took that guilty please. You know, he was asked a

845
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: question and he was like, Okay, yeah, lie then too,

846
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: but I'm not lying right now. And I think that

847
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: was one of the biggest things that made me believe that,

848
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: I mean, come out of this all right. You know.

849
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't a unanimous very. He was non unanimous. During

850
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: the jury pole, he had one white lady. You could

851
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: see that she was rather perturbed by the fact that

852
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 2: the other eleven jurors could not see pass them saying

853
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: I committed a crime. During the jury pole, she was

854
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: physically angry that this was happening because she was able

855
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 2: to see for the status saying and what Edward Cooper

856
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 2: saying doesn't make any sense.

857
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 4: So he was acquitted of the second degree murder and

858
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 4: then they found him guilty of the manslaughter.

859
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: In that moment, I'm trying to wrap my head around

860
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 2: what was going on and how it had taken place.

861
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: It wasn't very secretive. They're not even sweeping it under

862
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: the rug anymore. They just dumping it on the ground

863
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: and leaving it there. In that moment, I kind of

864
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: realized what I was dealing with. That gilt diberty came.

865
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: I realized I'm dealing with a monster. I was sentenced

866
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: to twenty five years. Twenty five Paul Lady digging ditches,

867
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: digging holes, surrounded by the white guy on a horse

868
00:47:53,040 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: with rifles and digging. You're pulling vegetables. I mean part

869
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 2: label and since the day, for since the day. That's

870
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: not slavery, and I don't know what it is.

871
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: It is quite literally slavery according to the thirteenth Amendment,

872
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: and then according to voters in the twenty twenty two midterms,

873
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: A voter to keep slavery as a punishment for a

874
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: crime in Louisiana. I mean, between all of the official

875
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: and prosecutorial misconduct, the incentives keep the jail in prison

876
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: population up, and how hopefully overworked and underfunded the public

877
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: defender's offices, It's almost like this is what the legislature

878
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: has planned for poor people. Across Louisiana, let alone all

879
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: over our country. Having a public defender who could not

880
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: possibly organize or present an adequate defense is not the exception,

881
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: it's the rule for indigen defendants. It's a built in

882
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: constitutional violation of the right to effective assistance of counsel.

883
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: So there's a fifty page report that was, i want

884
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: to say, funded by the US Department of Justice, who's

885
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: the American University of Washington, DC, and the findings of

886
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: the report established that the descendants in same family's parish

887
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: are routinely deprived their constitutional rights and their new process.

888
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 2: There was a sixty minute sectment in twenty seventeen with

889
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: Anderson Cooper and several public defenders from Louisiana were interviewed

890
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 2: and they were explaining that it's like an assembly line

891
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: in Louisiana. There's an abject underfunding by the state legislator

892
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: of the Public Defendant's office in Louisiana, and they're basically

893
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: operating on a budget where they cannot give the constitutionally

894
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: required representations to get into defendants and expend no remedies,

895
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 2: and no one is addressing the people who are being objected.

896
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: Predominantly lack of meeral.

897
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: As it affected you and continues to affects other folks,

898
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: and you have not been taking this line down between

899
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: stints out in the fields and studying the lawn, aggressively

900
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 1: filing pro sae motions, as well as having some legal

901
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 1: help along the way. But unfortunately you're being denied where

902
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: it seems pretty clear that you should not be, especially

903
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: on the very basic and effective assistance of council claim.

904
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: And you know what that last motion she filed, she

905
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: talks about things that she should have done prior to trial,

906
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: and she just kind of laid it all out so

907
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 2: that I could come back and fight it on post

908
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 2: additional collateral attack. She even made the comment to me

909
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: that I should get some kind of relief from not

910
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 2: being able to use called a statement a trial. She

911
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 2: was in the belief that, okay, hey, that was so

912
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: big that it's going to get the case overturned. But

913
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: it just every time it comes back to the same name,

914
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: not not not.

915
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 4: All the other appeals that he filed for the court

916
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 4: have also been denied because the standard of review on appeal,

917
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 4: especially if you challenge the insufficientcy of evidence, is that

918
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 4: the court just holds the position that if the jury

919
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 4: believed these things to be true, then we're also going

920
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 4: to believe it to be true. So Cooper's version of events,

921
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: that's what the Court of Appeals take to be true.

922
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 4: And so when the court finds that a reasonable jury

923
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 4: could come to that conclusion based on these facts, then

924
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: the court will affirm the person's conviction. Cooper's testimony is

925
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 4: what is following Jays with every appeal that he files,

926
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 4: his appeals get denied. But what Jays has been challenging

927
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 4: is that the testimonies, the evidence that the prosecution presented

928
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 4: to the jury were not true.

929
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: Right, they presented false evidence, and one can surmise easily

930
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: that they had to know that they were doing so,

931
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: considering how they helped Cooper's shape and mold his statements

932
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: over time to drag two innocent people into this situation

933
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: contrary to the initial witness statements and the factual basis

934
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: presented at both Carters and Cooper's proceedings. But shortly after

935
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: your conviction, between conviction and sentencing, I believe edreck Cooper

936
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: gave a recantation that is believed to have been made

937
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: before trial. Is that right?

938
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: Is he?

939
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 4: Yes? This is August twentieth, so if I'm reading the

940
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 4: date right, this was probably before Jason's trial on August twentieth,

941
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, where Cooper signed an affidavit that

942
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 4: he was ready to present to the court to say

943
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 4: that he had lied about the whole thing, that every

944
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 4: statement that he had provided was a lie, and that

945
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 4: he was a scared eighteen year old boy that he

946
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 4: knew Jays had never been in any type of criminal trouble,

947
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 4: and so because of that he implicated Jace, because he

948
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 4: knew that jas wasn't going to get convicted.

949
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: Well, clearly he didn't understand what he was dealing with

950
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: in Saint Tammany Parish. So he wrote this prior to

951
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: Jason's trial, but no one was aware of it until

952
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: between Jase's conviction and his sentencing.

953
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: What happened was I go to courtA Citacy and Jack

954
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: half standard Discratorney's office wrints him with purgury if he

955
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: goes through with the decantation. Same thing with Grant Dealers.

956
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: He did recantation, explaining that he was falciplicated in the crime.

957
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 4: Grant said that he wasn't there either, and that whatever

958
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 4: it is that he said about Jason's involvement, it's not true.

959
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: All of this is taken and once again manipulated in

960
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: the state's favor, like Cooper was forced to make those

961
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: he can't taste, or Sam David brand Gillis, and they're

962
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 2: making me look like I'm the wolf, you know, like

963
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: I'm just a big, bad guy that trying to force

964
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: things into his favor.

965
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 5: And the whole time it's the opposite classic projection. All

966
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 5: of these witnesses that they called credible at your trial,

967
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 5: whom they had coerced into line, they then threatened them

968
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 5: with perjury for trying to say something they knew to

969
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 5: be true from their own investigation. So they got Cooper

970
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 5: and Grant to keep quiet. What about Glenn Carter.

971
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 2: Carter actually wrote me a letter that I have, and

972
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 2: he's playing in a letter that people were also that

973
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: I ended up getting caught up in all.

974
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 4: So Carter wrote a letter to Jayce in which he

975
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 4: said a number of things, but the most important here

976
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 4: that he said is that but when all of this

977
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 4: is over, you could send somebody at me to sign

978
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 4: the papers for you. Since E which is Edric and

979
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 4: Grant not gonna do it. I don't feel like you

980
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 4: should be in here anyway, you didn't do anything, So,

981
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 4: like I said, let me get my shit situated and

982
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 4: I might do that for you. I know who was there,

983
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 4: and I didn't see you, and I.

984
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: Took that and I said, just watched maybe thousand as

985
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: well to get a new trial. Just watchhot that now

986
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 2: as well, without even addressing the significance of that letter

987
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 2: in cooperation to everything that I was saying before and

988
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: during the trial. Letters from all three of them have

989
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: been shot down saying basically, did they hold no credibility?

990
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: It's funny how they will find recantations not credible, but

991
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't drag into question any previous statements made in

992
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: court by the same person, like did they recently learn

993
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: how to become a liar? Is that the basic theory.

994
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: The only metric they're using for credibility seems to be

995
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: if it maintains a conviction and suits their narrative. And

996
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: in your case, the state had the evidence that this

997
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: credit of the statements made against you a trial. But

998
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: somehow these recantations are the incredible statements, so incredible in fact,

999
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 1: that when Jace received these recantation letters, his cell got

1000
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: tossed do I have that right, Jason?

1001
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was in two thousand and ten. I had

1002
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: the letters from Grant and Buy. What happened was they

1003
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: came to all of myself, man, a lot of my

1004
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: early pictures. I've never seen it again after that sease,

1005
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 2: and in that bag, in that self were the recantation was.

1006
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: Thankfully I had it home and I sit it in

1007
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 2: someone else's name. I'm glad I did that.

1008
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how defeated you would have felt. So

1009
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: at least you have a record of the other two

1010
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: recantations while you await Carter's help. What did you have

1011
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: to wait for to get his help?

1012
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: So I don't know what he has going on. Legally,

1013
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: they promised him a parole d because he now had

1014
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 2: parole under the juvenile law.

1015
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: He was seventeen, right, because he was a juvenile. That

1016
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: falls under two very important Scotis decisions Miller versus Alabama

1017
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: and Montgomery versus Louisiana. Between the two, it makes a

1018
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,760
Speaker 1: mandatory life without parole sentence except in cases of permanent incorrigibility.

1019
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: It makes that sentence for a juvenile unconstitutional. And that

1020
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: decision was made retroactive, so he was re sentenced and

1021
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: probably wants to wait until those proceedings are through before

1022
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: upsetting his own apple cart by helping you, since it

1023
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: seems they were hell bent on ignoring the signs pointing

1024
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: to your innocence, and that has not changed ever since

1025
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: your conviction. I think this needs to go to a

1026
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: new trial, if not a new venue, because there is

1027
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: certainly new evidence and I don't see how you could

1028
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: ever be convicted with that new evidence being presented.

1029
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 4: So I have cooper statement where he recanted everything and

1030
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 4: said he liked I have grants where he said he

1031
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 4: I have Carter's letter.

1032
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: You also have the subpoena phone records for the number

1033
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: passed off as Carter's phone in court, which established collusion

1034
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: between Jason Glenn Carter. However, that key piece of evidence

1035
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: turned out to be bogus. That subpoena is not in

1036
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: Jason's official filings, so it's new evidence. So given the opportunity,

1037
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: you could subpoena the phone company again to submit that

1038
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: as new evidence. And you also did all the work

1039
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: that his attorney never did, thereby destroying Cooper's morass of lies.

1040
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 4: For me, what I'm hoping comes out of this is

1041
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 4: that somebody goes like, Okay, let's look into this. Not

1042
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 4: even take my worry for it. Let's look at the paperwork.

1043
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 4: The statements that were presented to the jury were false,

1044
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 4: and the prosecutor's office knew or should have known, that

1045
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 4: those statements were false. Cooper changed and was allowed to

1046
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 4: change those testimonies with no consequences of perjury. And so

1047
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 4: he constantly keeps changing the stories over and over again

1048
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: until it got to a point where the prosecution could

1049
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 4: sell that story to a jury. And as we had

1050
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 4: said earlier, even with all of this, there was at

1051
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 4: least one person in that jury that said that they

1052
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 4: did not believe what the prosecution was selling.

1053
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: Them, which in any other state except Oregon at the time,

1054
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: would have meant to hung jury. And this brings us

1055
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: to the very important development of Louisiana no longer accepting

1056
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: non unanimous jury verdicts. They did away with this Jim

1057
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: Crow era practice in twenty eighteen by ballot initiative, but

1058
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: when this new law was taken to the Supreme Court,

1059
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: rather than making it retroactive, they led it up to

1060
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: the state of Louisiana to decide.

1061
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: To me, that's like telling the fox that's garden a

1062
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 3: hen house to do something about what you did that

1063
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 3: you know was wrong. So Louisiana staying they're not gonna

1064
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 3: let the people go here. Within our organization, we know

1065
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 3: that it's over eight thousand people. It's over seventeen hundred

1066
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 3: or more here in Saint Tammany Parish, with jas on

1067
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 3: the top of the list.

1068
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: Belinda Parker Brown. She and her organization have now filed

1069
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against the State of Louisiana, and in this

1070
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: lawsuit they planned to challenge the State of Louisiana once

1071
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: again on the issue of these non unitedmous jury verdicts.

1072
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: They was caught the highest court in the land, the

1073
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: United States Supreme Court rule what they did here was unconstitutional,

1074
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: and I'm saying it was criminal. So I'm saying that

1075
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 3: if it was unconstitutional and the United States Supreme Court,

1076
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 3: along with the people voting sixty four percent, let these

1077
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 3: people go.

1078
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: Let them go free.

1079
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 3: If we got to organize some type of facilitation on

1080
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 3: how we want to release the people, that's fine, But

1081
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 3: it's not right for them to hold THEMN hostage kidnap

1082
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 3: because they got it wrong.

1083
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: And we're going to have action steps linked in the

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01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: bio for Belinda's organization and to help Jace.

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01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 4: So I put together a petition for Jace. We're hoping

1086
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 4: to create awareness, and we also want the new district

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01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 4: attorney who is in Saint Tammany Parish. He has the

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01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 4: power to reopen Jason's case. All the support and documents,

1089
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 4: all the inconsistent statements, Jason's phone records, Carter's phone records,

1090
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 4: Grant Gatherer's phone records, all of that information is available.

1091
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 4: It's for him to give jas a second opportunity for

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01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 4: his case to be reviewed.

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01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: Go to the bio now and we can all work

1094
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 1: together to write this wrong. And now we're going to

1095
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: turn to my favorite part of the show, closing arguments,

1096
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: where I think both of you again, I mean you

1097
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: just you inspire me to want to work harder and smarter,

1098
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to keep fighting for you and for

1099
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: everyone that we can possibly help that's been rawly convicted.

1100
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 1: So closing arguments works like this, Isy, We're going to

1101
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: start with you. I'm going to turn my microphone off,

1102
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: kick back in my chair with my headphones on, close

1103
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 1: my eyes, and just listen to anything else you want

1104
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: to share. With our audience and then hand the microphone

1105
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: off to Jason. He'll take us off into the sunset.

1106
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 4: April twenty ninth, two thousand and seven. Another human being,

1107
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 4: Jose Martinez Carpio, lost his life. He had a family,

1108
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 4: he had people who loved and cared for him. He

1109
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 4: was an innocent man. He deserves justice, His family deserves justice.

1110
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 4: But if you have a situation where there's somebody else

1111
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 4: who had absolutely nothing to do with what unfortunately happened

1112
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 4: to Jose Martinez, if you have that person serving time

1113
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 4: in prison, then you're not delivering any justice to the victim.

1114
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 4: You're not serving society any good, and in what may

1115
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 4: have been the state's good intention, the state ended up

1116
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 4: victimizing another person and his family. Jason's conviction was a mistake,

1117
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 4: and it's a mistake that needs to be corrected. It's

1118
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 4: been fifteen years over you, and that's all that I

1119
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 4: like to say.

1120
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 2: We have social problems going on all over the world,

1121
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: all over the country, social problems affecting predominantly black people.

1122
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 2: A lot of time or not giving the resources and

1123
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: not giving the pressing a president Joe Biden christology political leaves,

1124
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: but it's wresting a lot of social problems, but it's

1125
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: being left out a lot of times. It's it's criminal

1126
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 2: justice systems and the way that if you handles black

1127
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: people on a native dating judges in the court, they're

1128
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 2: not taking seriously a litigation done by indigent decent. They're

1129
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: not taking seriously a litigation done for who are are

1130
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 2: almost poor. It has changed. You can't continue to run

1131
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 2: a system, operate as a state, as a country, as

1132
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 2: a nation. You can't continue to operate with historically agreeable

1133
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 2: for people who are being adversity affected by the workings

1134
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: in the working bureaucratic inside of the system.

1135
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

1136
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wardis,

1137
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

1138
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

1139
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

1140
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at

1141
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

1142
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: all three platforms. You can also follow me on both

1143
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flamm Wrongful Conviction is

1144
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: the production of Lava for Good podcast and association with

1145
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number one