1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Outrage. A teen girl, an LSU student, absolutely stunning with 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: the world before her. It's now dead, but was she 3 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: raped before her death? I Meanancy Grace. This is crime Stories. 4 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: and Series X twenty eleven. First of all, take us 6 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: to our friends. A wa FB, an LSU student, is 7 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: reportedly on life support in the hospital after she was 8 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: hit by a car while standing in the middle of 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Burbank Drive early this morning. Deputies with the East Bannerge 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: pair of Sheriff's Office tell us the grass happened at 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: around three on Burbank Drive near Pelican Lakes Parkway. LSUS 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Tiger TV says the student is sophomore Madison Brooks, who 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: is a member of the Alpha feast sorority. Deputies are 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out why Brooks was standing in 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: the middle of the roadway before she was hit by 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: a vehicle or told the driver showed no signs or 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: evidence of being impaired. This investigation is ongoing. If you 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: get any new updates, we'll be sure to pass them 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: along to you. Well, I can tell you why many 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: people believe that she was standing in the middle of 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: the street because she had just been dumped out of 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: a car by a bunch of guys that had sex 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: with her, when she's practically unconscious. Now she's dead. She 24 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: was on life support, now she loses her life. How 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: badly does one team girl have to be treated before 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: there are formal charges. I'm wondering if charges of felony 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: murder may arise in addition to third degree rate charges 28 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: currently existing, because we all know that felony murder does 29 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: not require intent to kill. In other words, if the 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: law believes that this young girl was gang raped by 31 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: four suspects ranging in age from seventeen to twenty eight, 32 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: if they raped her when she is unconscious and drunk, 33 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: and a death occurred during the commission of that and 34 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: a perceived kidnapping, that is a textbookcase of felony murder. 35 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Why did Maddie Brooks have to die? Take a listen 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: to more from our friends at wa FB nine and 37 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: now a few student has died after being hit by 38 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: a car while standing in the middle of Burbank Drive. 39 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: According to the university, sophomore student Madison Brooks died in 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: the hospital. These Maoroue Sheriff's office tells us the crash 41 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: happened around three am on Burbank Drive near Pelican Lakes Parkway. 42 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: Brooks was standing in the roadway alone when she was 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: hit by a vehicle. The investigation is ongoing at this 44 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: time with me and All Star panel to make sense 45 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But I want to 46 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: go first to high profile criminal defense attorney joining us 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, often known as the Queen 48 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: of Dope. Now I don't know exactly what that means. 49 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: Renee Rockwell is joining us and you can find her 50 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Renee dot Rockwell, who also went to 51 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: LSU as an undergrad before her a law degree and 52 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: launching her practice and multiple jurisdictions. And let me also 53 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: remind everyone that the law in Louisiana is somewhat different. 54 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: It is a hybrid of what the rest of the 55 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: country has, because it is a mixture of our jurisprudence 56 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: abrought here from Great Britain and then Napoleonic Code because 57 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: as we all know, it was a controlled by the 58 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: French for a long period of time. Renee Rockwell, before 59 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: I launched into a discussion of the Napoleonic Code with you, 60 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: let me just ask you, are you familiar with Burbank 61 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: Street and or this bar where she allegedly had worked, 62 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: either serve, probably serving food. It may have had another 63 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: name them, but right now the bar's named Reggie and 64 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: Burbank Street where she was mowed down after the alleged 65 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: sex attacks. Okay, Nancy, so what we're talking about this 66 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: is an lsu bar, but this is not a bar 67 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: that's right next to campus. This is in tiger Land. 68 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: Tiger Land is where a number of kids live. My 69 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: nephew lives out there. He knew this young lady. These 70 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: are bars that turnover names. I know this place. I 71 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: know these bars. I know these kids. I know about 72 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: underage drinking over there, fake ideas. And let's just talk 73 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: about her blood alcohol contest point three one nine, Nancy. 74 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: I know she's not on trial, but can you say 75 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: lawsuit at Reggie the bar which in the last hours 76 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: has lost its liquor licenses in the liquor license the 77 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: law that lost or they shut down the whole Yeah, 78 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: they shut the whole place down. But you know, Renee, 79 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: I know you're I almost said antics, but let me 80 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: just say your methods in the courtroom and you've won 81 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: a lot of cases at jury trial. But when you 82 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: say something like the victim's not on trial, but I 83 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: know something inappropriate or something I don't want to hear, 84 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: it's about to come out of your mouth, and I 85 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: want to follow up on you says she's got point 86 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: three to nine blood alcohol. But you know what, I 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: don't mind that you said that, because that supports my 88 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: theory that anybody that and I'm putting this in air 89 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: quotas for the you that can only hear my voice, 90 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: anybody that quote had sex at point three nine could 91 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: not give consent. And if you can, I give consent 92 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: to consensual sex, then rape case closed. Bam. Now if 93 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: that's to me, Nancy, I can tell you that I 94 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: have read some of the transcripts about these young men 95 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: that have appeared before the judge, and some of them 96 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: are taking the position that she was well enough and 97 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: alert enough to consent. I will tell you though, Oh, 98 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure they are. Like every other rape descendant, they 99 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: all say number one, I've never seen her in my life. 100 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: That didn't happen. And you say, well, there's video surveillance 101 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: of you with her at the bar. Oh was that her? Yeah? 102 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: That girl came and sat by me at the bar. Yeah, 103 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: I guess I did know her face, and sir, you 104 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: were seen by three witnesses leaving the bar with her. Well, yeah, 105 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: you know what now that you mentioned that I was 106 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: going to walk her her car because I'm a gentleman, 107 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: and your DNA is found in and on her body? 108 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: Was that that girl that was totally consensual? Yeah? I 109 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: know what's coming next. I know you're played. No, not 110 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: only the DNA, not only the DNA, but there's some 111 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: video I here that there may have been a video 112 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: of the sexual encounter. Just putting it out here. Did 113 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: you just say sex encounter? There may may have been 114 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: video of the quote sexual encounter, which, let me just 115 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: go to Jen Smith before I just reached through the 116 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: camera and grab Renee Rockwell. Jen Smith is joining me. 117 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: Jen Smith is the chief reporter for dailymail dot com. 118 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: Jen Smith, you guys were the first ones I believe 119 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: to report that Reggie's Bar has been closed down, had 120 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: its liqualized that suspended by Louisiana authorities. Hey, Louisiana day 121 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: late dollars short because this young girl, Maddie is dead. 122 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: Jen Smith, what am I hearing about? A potential video 123 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: of the Azerna Rockwell, aka the Queen of Dope, calls 124 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: it the sexual encounter. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty 125 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: disturbing detail. But Nancy, this video is what these defendants 126 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: claim will actually exonerate them. Now, Renee pointed out that 127 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: they're saying this was consensual, as you rightly say, many 128 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: rate defendants are going to default to that when they 129 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: face these charges. But what's unusual in this case is 130 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: not only do they say that she gave consent and 131 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: that she participated in the sex act, that they have 132 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: a video of it, which they say will prove that 133 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: she was able to give consent. Now, of course, this 134 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: video could work in their favor or very much against it. 135 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: It depends what it shows. Obviously we've not seen it yet. 136 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: It's something that many people, especially your jury, are going 137 00:08:47,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: to insist on if this case moves forward. Time Stories 138 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, Ja Smith with me, chief reporter with 139 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: Dailymail dot Com. Jen, could you just outline for our 140 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: viewers and listeners that are not familiar with Mattie's case 141 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: what we believe to have happened that night without me 142 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: claiming that I believe that should be felony murder charges 143 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: and without missus Rockwell claiming that it was all consensual 144 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: and it was really nobody's fault but the victims, yeah, absolutely, 145 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: So these are the facts as we know them. January fifteenth, 146 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Madison Brooks, a nineteen year old sophomore at LSU, goes 147 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: to Reggie's Bar in Tiger Line. She's been there many 148 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: times before with her friends. We see her entering the 149 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: bar on surveillance footage at her own ten PM. Inside 150 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: the bar, she meets four young men, some of them 151 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: well one of them at least is under the age 152 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: of eighteen. Oh, the unnamed minor under eighteen Whoopsie Reggie's 153 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: go ahead right. So over the next four hours inside 154 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: the bar, Maddie is drinking, these four young men are 155 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: also drinking. Now it gets to around one fifty am. 156 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: By this point, Maddie is drunk. She's been seen falling 157 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: inside the bar, falling outside the bar, but she and 158 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: these four men decide to leave the bar. They walk 159 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: to a vehicle that's being driven by Cason Carver. He 160 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: is one of these co defendants. They leave Reggie's. They 161 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: drive a short distance where they pull over. Now over 162 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: the course of the next hour. Let's say we don't 163 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: have the exact timeline yet. Maddie, we know from the 164 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: interviews that these men gave is either raped or has 165 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: consensual sex with two of these young men. They take turns. 166 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: One gets out of the vehicle while the other has 167 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: sex with her or rates her. Then they swap over. Now, 168 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: while this happens, Cason Carver the driver, and the oldest defendant, 169 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: his name is ever At Lee. They're in the two 170 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: front seats of this vehicle. Now. Eventually, at two fifty 171 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: am approximately, the driver, Casin tells this is according to 172 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: his interview with police. He says, we've got to cut 173 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: this out. It's time to go. I'm taking her home. 174 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Maddie can't remember her address again. According to these young men, 175 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: she insists on getting out of the car. That's what 176 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: they say. So they drop her off on a subsection. 177 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: She gets out the vehicle, and she is then hit 178 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: by a different car and she later dies in the hospital. 179 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: Those are the facts as we have them right now. 180 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: And the fact, obviously why we're all here is that 181 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: these four men have been charged in this case, two 182 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: of them with third degree rape. The other two the 183 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: two who were in the front seat of the vehicle. 184 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: They have been charged with principle to third degree rape, 185 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: which means that they were present for the alleged crime, 186 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: but they did nothing to stop it. The four men 187 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: are in custody now. They have had their bonds set 188 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: the highest at one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The 189 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: lesser crimes, the bond has been said at seventy five 190 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and we are waiting for them to go 191 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: before a judge. But the question is, as you pointed 192 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: out the top of the show, was Madison Brooks raped 193 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: before she died? And did any of these events that 194 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: led up to her death cause it? Nancy, I can't 195 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: take it anymore. I gotta jump in here, you know, 196 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum, I was about to say, before I go 197 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCallum, I just want to pose a question 198 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: to Renee Rockwell. So, Renee, you would have me believe, 199 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: as a veteran criminal defense attorney that this young teen 200 00:12:54,320 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: girl who was seen falling down drunk and the bar 201 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: leaves with four guys reportedly met in the bar, reminds 202 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: me so much of Jorn Vanderslute gets in the car 203 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: and that she willingly consents to pulling a train, in 204 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: other words, having sex with not one but two guys 205 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: in the backseat of a car while two guys are 206 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: up front watching and videoing her, including and correct me 207 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, Jen Smith, anal sex. That would be 208 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: your defense, Renee Rockwell, I am telling you where these 209 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: defense attorneys are going, Nancy, just telling you where they're going. 210 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: That one of them has already said, well, you know, 211 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: of course she consented, and the other ones are going 212 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: to provide video to say that she participated. Uh huh, Okay. 213 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum is joining me now, forensic expert and founder 214 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Research Institute, and today I don't 215 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: want to kill the messenger, which is you, and I 216 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: guess Cheryl McCollum at Coldcase Crimes dot org and star 217 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: of a new hit podcast, Zone seven, which I have 218 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: yet to be invited to. But that's the whole other 219 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: can of worms. Cheryl McCollum. You heard what Renee Rockwell said, 220 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: and I guess it's better to know what the defense 221 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: is going to be. Of course, you need to know 222 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: what the other side is going to do so you 223 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: can defeat it before they even get a chance to 224 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: bring it up in front of the jury. So, okay, 225 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, help me out. Bottom line, she could not walk, 226 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: she could not speak clearly, she had to be helped 227 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: to the car. She was that intoxicated she could not consent. 228 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: Period number two. The autopsy is going to show injury 229 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: consistent with sexual assault. And what do you mean by that. 230 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: She's going to have injury to the you know, vaginal area, 231 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: possibly the anal area. There could be tearing, there could 232 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: be abrasions, there could be lacerations, she could have bruising 233 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: from fingertips where she was being held in position. Again, 234 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: the doctor notated, the pathologists notated that she had injury 235 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: consistent with sexual assault. That is going to be something 236 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: that they're not going to be able to overcome. And 237 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: I also want to point out that we had a 238 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: case in South Georgia where somebody thought videotaping a murder 239 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: was going to absolve him. It actually helped solidify the 240 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: fact that a young man jogging near jack Al Island 241 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: was murdered. So the videotape I do not believe is 242 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: going to help them. I believe it's going to show 243 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: a girl that is clearly too intoxicated to know what 244 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: she is even doing in that car, much less consenting 245 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: to something consensual. Well, I guess if bruises are found 246 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: on her body where she was at could have been 247 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: held down, or there was the vaginal or anal tearing. 248 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: The next defense, and I might even give this idea 249 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: to Rene, because she's probably already had it will be 250 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: the Robert Chambers preppy killer defense. We had rough sex, 251 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: it was that was consensual too. And can you believe 252 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: somebody actually believes that, Nancy? This is doc you know 253 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,479 Speaker 1: we can tell through a lot. Is this doctor Michelle Dupree, 254 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree, you were the next person I'm going to, 255 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie, let me do the honor of introducing you. 256 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: In addition to Jen Smith, Cheryl McCollum, and Renee Rockwell 257 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: joining me, doctor Mendy B. Mechanic, professor's Psychology, California State, 258 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: doctor Monte Miller, expert at Forensic DNA at Forensic DNA 259 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: Experts dot com. And doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologist, medical examiner, 260 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: former detective and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Okay, 261 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: doctor dupree way, Okay, So during the autopsy, we can 262 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: generally tell if it was rough sex or sex bike consent, 263 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: or if it was actually forced right. And the reason 264 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: we tell it is the injuries. But it's the location 265 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: of the injuries that is the most important. And you know, 266 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: when we look at the clock of a face, injuries 267 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: at six o'clock typically are those of forced right, and 268 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: those others are could be you know, consensual rough sex. 269 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: Why is that? It's because anatomically our bodies, the way 270 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: that they're shaped and the way that we will struggle, 271 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: if you will, when it is forced right, that is 272 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: the position that the injuries typically occur. Understood. I'm trying 273 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: to figure out what we really know about the autopsy 274 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: report by the medical examiner. Jen Smiths joining me dailymail 275 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: dot com chief reporter. What do we know, Well, we 276 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: know not a huge amount. We only know what ended 277 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: as to Affidavid and I'll read from it right now, Nancy, 278 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: for the benefit of your readers and your listeners, for 279 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: all of our readers and listeners. It says, during the autopsy, 280 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: the pathologist reported that the victim had injuries consistent with 281 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: previous sexual assault. Anally, the other thing that's really interesting 282 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: that came as a result of the autopsy was that 283 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: she tested positive as well for t C. Now that's 284 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: one of the most toxic keeping elements of cannabis. So 285 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: not only had Maddie been drinking excessively, she also had 286 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: cannabis in her system. This decision compromising drug, which I 287 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: think is another really important detail. Take a listen to 288 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: our cut for our friends from WAFB. I'm told deputies 289 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: have known about this rape angle to the case almost 290 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: from the start and have been conducting multiple interviews before 291 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: making the arrest that happened late today, lesson one day 292 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: after a vigil was held to honor the memory of 293 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: LSU sophomore Madison Brooks of the LSU Lakes Deputies have 294 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: arrested four men who they say we're seen leaving with 295 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: Madison Brooks in a vehicle from Reggie's Bar in Tiger Land. 296 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: Investigators will leave two of the men raped Madison Brooks 297 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: before they dropped her off near that scene on Burbank 298 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: Drive near Pelican Lakes Parkway at around three in the morning, 299 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: where she was later hit by a car driven by 300 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: a ride share driver. This would not be the first 301 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: time an alleged rapist got off. Scott gets off Scott 302 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: free because the victim may have been intoxicated. Takes an 303 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: hour cut nineteen. I'm talking about the infamous Brock Turner case. 304 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: These are our friends from NBC. With a hard push 305 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: of the jailhouse tour, Brock. Former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner 306 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: was met by a crush of cameras. Are you thinking 307 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: about he spent only ninety days in jail for sexual assaults? 308 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: Are you no call? Drive? NBC News was given exclusive 309 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: access to evidence in Turner's case. File pictures show him 310 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: with a torn shirt hours after he was tackled by 311 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: students who saw him on top of an unconscious female 312 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: behind a dumpster on Stanford's campus. Interrogation tapes taken after 313 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: his arrest showed a calm Turner responding to questions from 314 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: a detective, saying, my intentions were not to try and 315 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: rape a girl without her consent. I was just trying 316 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: to hook up with a girl. When pressing Turner about 317 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: the victim, the detective asks, if you saw her again, 318 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: would you recognize her? Turner responds, probably not right. Turner's 319 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: right victim was assaulted outside of a fraternity house by 320 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: the dumpster on the ground and the dirt and the 321 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: pine straw, and the rate was only stopped when some 322 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: other college guys walked by and saw what was happening, 323 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: and the defense there was consent to doctor Mindy beat 324 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: Mechanic joining US Professor's Psychology Emeritus, California State University, Fullerton, 325 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Mandy Mechanic. It seems as if any 326 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: rapists get off scott free or a slap on the wrist, 327 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: if the right victim has been drinking. What is that phenomena? Well, 328 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: I think it also depends on whether or not there's 329 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: any corroborating evidence or like, in this case, at least 330 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: we do have a BAC, But oftentimes in these cases 331 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: there is no BAC. Victim hasn't gone to the hospital 332 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: right away, and you may or may not have other 333 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: people that can provide statements about her level of intoxication, 334 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: at least behaviorally. In this case, you have people saying, 335 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: excuse me, that they witnessed her falling down drunk, they 336 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: witnessed her learning her speech. So it's helpful to be 337 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: able to say we've got at least some behavioral evidence 338 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: and we've got the BAC to be able to estimate 339 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: what her level of impairment might have been. You know, 340 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: at a point was its point three one nine point 341 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: three two. That's a pretty significant BAC where a person's 342 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: ability to engage in deliberation, decision making, all of that 343 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: is significantly impaired. My question was why our male rapists 344 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: let off the hook or get a light sentence when 345 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: the rape victim has been drinking. That is the question. Yeah, 346 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: so well it first goes to conviction, right, So that's 347 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: why I was talking about the behavioral stuff. And if 348 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: you don't have that, it's harder to make a conviction. 349 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: And then if there is a conviction to sentencing, I 350 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: don't know in sense of data, like the Brock Turner situation, 351 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: was that an anomaly in terms of sentencing? That certainly 352 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: got all our attention. Now it was not an anomaly 353 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: at all. As a matter of fact, I can listen 354 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: to our cut twenty In this case, I'm talking about 355 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: another rapist to get to slap on the wrist Bowen Turner. 356 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: Listen our friends at WCSC. The father of Dallas Dollar 357 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: says in twenty eighteen his daughter was the president of 358 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: her senior class, Smart and outgoing, a friend almost everyone 359 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: she met that was just her. She had a huge heart. 360 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: One night, Dallas came home from a party intoxicated, distraught, 361 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: and covered in these bruises, saying she had been sexually assaulted. 362 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: It was very upsetting, obviously in disheartening, and I might 363 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: use the word tragic. Once we found out who the 364 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: alleged individual was. Dallas's family says they later pressed charges 365 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: against her classmate, sixteen year old Bowen Turner. Public record 366 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: show he was arrested and charged with first degree criminal 367 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: sexual conduct in Bamberg County in January of twenty nineteen. 368 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: Turner was released on bond, but was required to wear 369 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: a GPS monitor. A few months later, a judge allowed 370 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: him to remove it, released on bond with an ankle 371 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: monitor that he was then allowed to remove. But that's 372 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: not the end of Bowen Turner and the rape of 373 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: Dallas stallar Takeola star Cut twenty one. But less than 374 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: five months after that first arrest, while he was still 375 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: out on bond, cored documents show Turner was arrested again. 376 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: He was slapped with that same charge, first degree criminal 377 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: sexual conduct, and affidavit reveals the arrest also stems from 378 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: a party, this time in Orangeburg County. The victim was 379 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: not named because she was a miner at the time, 380 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: but Chloe Bess says she was the one sexually assaulted 381 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: by Turner in June of twenty nineteen when she was sixteen. 382 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: I just remember being like so petrified, like I was frozen. 383 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: I honestly just remember sitting there looking at the stars, 384 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: just like praying for it to be done, just praying 385 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: for it to be done. Light sentences out on bond, 386 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: no ankle monitor, just another I've got stacks of examples 387 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: where the woman, the girl, teen victim has been drinking. 388 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: It's like nothing happened to Doctor Monte Miller, director on 389 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: Forensic DNA Experts specializing in sex assaults and murders. You 390 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: can find doctor Miller at Forensic DNA Experts dot com. 391 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: Worked for a long time as forensic scientists for the 392 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: Texas Department of Public Safety. Doctor Miller, I have great, 393 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: great respect for all the scientists at every state crime 394 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: lab facility. You have a crush of work, too many 395 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: cases to even get to, and you learn the hard way. 396 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: You learn with a crush of cases about everything in 397 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: the book, the book that could be thrown at you. 398 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: It's like learning in the trenches, Doctor Monte Miller. How 399 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: do we know that there were just two alleged rapists, 400 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: not for and how do you differentiate between the victim 401 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: and potentially two perpetrators DNA? Well, as long as we 402 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: have everybody's DNA, they'll be able to match it up 403 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: to whatever's found. You know, maybe one of them raped 404 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: her vaginally and one of them raped her anally. Okay, 405 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: hold on right there, just a second, doctor Miller. Again, 406 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to kill the messenger, but has anybody 407 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: seen this girl, Mandy Brooks. She's just I mean, I've 408 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: seen her in a cheerleading out that, I've seen her 409 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: dressed up for some kind of a shin dig with 410 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: her mom. I've seen pictures of her, you know, at school, 411 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: and she is so precious and so full of life. 412 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: And I to hear it thrown her out around. Well, 413 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: maybe one raped her vaginally, maybe one raped her anally. 414 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: He just struck me. We are talking about a young girl. Yeah, 415 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: Renee Cheryl, this girl is only four years older, did 416 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: Lucy I know? Nancy? Can I say one thing? Can 417 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: I stop you, well, you're gonna tap me. You're just 418 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: new my mind. Well, yeah, but I want to I 419 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: want to throw something in because she's in. This is 420 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: what happens. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's sweet, and you 421 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: know what, she's dead. And let me tell you what 422 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: the difference makes here. A lot of right cases, Nancy, 423 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: you get a slap on the risk because the victim 424 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: does not want to participate, not in this case, because 425 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: she's not with us any longer. So they're going to 426 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: go full force against these gods. Doctor Montey Miller, I'm sorry, 427 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm veered off when I was thinking about my little girl. No, 428 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: it's it's awful and we should stop to think about it. 429 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: We should stop to think about it, doctor Miller. How 430 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: are we going to do this thing with the DNA? Well, 431 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: they'll have everybody's DNA, which which you know, everybody has 432 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: their known DNA which they'll be able to take, you know, 433 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: from their blood or their mouth, and so comparing it 434 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: will be a lot easier in a case like this 435 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: where the suspects are known, rather than trying to find 436 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: the suspects. So everybody's DNA is so unique, even if 437 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: it's mixed together or it's separate. The statistics will be 438 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: so high that they'll be able to tell who raped 439 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: her and where, because the bodily processes will have stopped 440 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: when she died, so it's not like this went on 441 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: for you know, three days before she notified the police 442 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: or anything like that. They got her body, They got 443 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: it shortly after all of this happened. They did an autopsy, 444 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: so they'll collect samples shortly afterwards. She hasn't taken a 445 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: shower or any of those other things that people oftentimes do, 446 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: so the evidence will still be there. They'll be able 447 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: to compare it to all of the individuals, and they'll 448 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: be able to verify probably the things that we see 449 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: on that tape. Well earlier, Jen Smith, tourning medeimail dot 450 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,239 Speaker 1: com chief reporter, I believe it was hernee could have been. 451 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: Cheryl mentioned there's going to be a big fat lawsuit 452 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: against Reggie's Bar as it's currently named, because they have 453 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: a long history climbs, attacks, incidents in the bar and 454 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: in the parking lot. Is that true? Yeah, it is true, Lancy. 455 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: Like you pointed out, there is a disturbing history of 456 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: incidents in this bar. As you mentioned before, someone was 457 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: once stabbed behind the bar. We've heard reports of someone 458 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: else being shot in this bar. And let me just 459 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: talk about the bar's social media presence. They've seen pretty 460 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: horrifying videos of just what goes on in this bar. 461 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: We're talking about kids jumping behind the bar, being thrown 462 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: behind the bar, drinking straight from the bottle. It's clear 463 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: that no one was really following the rules in there. Now, 464 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to criminal culpability or even civil culpability, 465 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: that might be a different matter. We have heard from 466 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: an attorney representing the bar they've now lost their liquor license. 467 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: This attorney says that the bar owner, who's not yet 468 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: been named, I think it'll only be a matter of 469 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: time before they are But they are cooperating with the investigation. 470 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: You know, there are climbs that they, as some of 471 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: our guests like to call it sex encounter was consensual, 472 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: But I don't think that's gonna work. Taken us now 473 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: or cut six our friends from WAFB. And this is 474 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: why arrest documents revealed that Brooks allegedly consented, but that 475 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: Carver says he personally thought she was too drunk to 476 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: know what she was doing. Third degree rape usually involves 477 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: a case where a person is too intoxicated to consent. 478 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: LSU's president, William Tate, released a statement saying, in part quote, 479 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: by all accounts, she was an amazing young woman with 480 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: limitless potential. She should not have been taken from us 481 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: in this way. What happened to her was evil in 482 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: our legal system will parcel out justice. So what do 483 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: you do with that? Retnee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney. You've 484 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: got one of the defendants, eighteen year old case in 485 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: Carver stating that the victim was too intoxicated to consent. 486 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Carver says he personally thought she was too drunk to 487 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: know what she was doing. For Pete's sake, she was 488 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: so drunk she didn't even know her home address. And 489 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Nancy, this is what happened. 490 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: You have four defendants, and somebody's going to make a 491 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: deal intensifying maybe three against one who knows. But you know, 492 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: I go, there's not going to be a trial against 493 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: all four young men. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. If 494 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: I was trying the case, which I'm sure that prosecutor 495 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: doesn't want to hear about, I would put them all 496 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: on trial, because I've done it both ways. Take a 497 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: play with a few in exchange for testimony against the 498 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: main bad actors. No, I've decided the best way to go. 499 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: Put them all in the same pot and let them 500 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: stew together, and then we'll see what happens once they 501 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: get on the stand. But yeah, if it does work 502 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: out the way that you see yet, I could see 503 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: Everett Lee, the twenty eight year old, and the seventeen 504 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: year old unnamed minor turning state's evidence because the others, wait, 505 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: hold on, let me get these charges straight. The seventeen 506 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: year old minor is charged with rate and Lee is 507 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: charged with accomplice. Carver's charged with accomplice. I could see 508 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: Carver and Lee, who are charged with accomplice, turning state 509 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: sevens against the two they're charged with the actual rate. 510 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying You think it's going to happen, 511 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: Renee Rockwell, exactly, it happens all the time. Nancy and 512 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: the defense attorneys are going to grunt to the prostitute 513 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: and say, hey, look, please don't put me through this. 514 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm willing to give you a B and C. Another 515 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: issue is how they got to the video. Was the 516 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: video procured legally? Did they get into the phone without 517 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: search warrant? Those are issues that will be explored on FOM. 518 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: I think one of the defendants handed it over thinking 519 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: it would exonerate them, Is that right, Jim Smith? Yeah, 520 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: that's correct. The attorneys or at least two of the defendants, 521 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: we don't know which yet, but it's definitely not Case 522 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: and Carver. So the attorney representing lately keep On Washington 523 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: and maybe his uncle Everett Lee. He's claiming that this 524 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: video will prove that Mighty not only was she able 525 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: to give consent but overply. Yeah. You know, the constitution 526 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: protects you from the state violating your rights or looking 527 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: at your phone videos without consent. It does not protect 528 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: you from your idgit codefendant that hands it over and 529 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: gets you in hot water. Cheryl mccollough', a forensic expert, 530 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute, jump in, Cheryl, 531 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: there are layers to this thing. The first thing, we 532 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: have a video that I think is going to be 533 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: a money tree. Second, we have injury to this victim 534 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: indicative of sexual assault. And third, they just dump her 535 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: at three o'clock in the morning. In some random subdivision. 536 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: So again, you've got four people. This crime started long 537 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: before they left that bar. You've got an adult that 538 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: takes three miners into a bar where they're drinking. That 539 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: adult allows the youngest to walk the victim out, hugging her, 540 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 1: supporting her, getting her in the car. He sits while 541 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: two people sexually assault her. His own words, say we 542 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: have to stop this. Stop what that doesn't sound like 543 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: you think it's consensual. So I'm just telling you the 544 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 1: layers of this thing, when it started, how they all 545 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: got together. We're looking at pre and post behavior. What 546 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: law enforcement is going to do is look at the video, 547 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: text messages, and calls between these folks, plus their social 548 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: media the days before, during the crime, and after. Nancy 549 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: the driver has to worry about the liability of letting 550 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: her out and intoxicated. I'll tell you what, I'd be 551 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: a lot less worried about them taking my bank account. 552 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: Then I would be about spending the next twenty behind 553 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: bars on a conflics to rape, a potential felony murder. 554 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, speaking of felony murder, I think this is 555 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: entirely an appropriate case for a felony murder charge. Because 556 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: if this girl was raped and she was moved even 557 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: one inch against her will, one inch or less, there 558 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: is no degree of asportation, which is movement under the 559 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: law required for a kidnapping charge. If she did not 560 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: want to be raped and they put her in the 561 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: back seat and will let her out, that is a 562 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: felony kidnap. And if a death occurred during a felony, 563 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: that is a felony murder. Renee Rockwell, it is nan 564 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: But the point I was trying to make it, I 565 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: bet you were. Whether or not the driver gets out 566 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: of the race, he's still responsible for letting an intoxicated 567 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: girl out of the car. That's what I was talking about. 568 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: He had the last chance to save her life. And 569 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: doctor Michel du Free tell me again in a nutshell, 570 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: how can you look at the body and tell me 571 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: if this was a rape or a consensual sex encounter? 572 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: And Nancy, we look at the injuries, and we look 573 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: at the location of those injuries, and we know just anatomically, 574 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: when there is a struggle, those injuries are going to 575 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: appear in certain places, particularly at the six o'clock position 576 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: of the point of entry. And so that's one of 577 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: the ways we tell we also look for bruising on 578 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: the inside of the five and we look for any 579 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: type of defense Winds and doctor Monte Miller, Forensic DNA 580 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: Experts dot com. You're telling me we can separate the 581 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: DNA and determine how many people had sex slash raped 582 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: her that night. Correct, Well, we can't always separate the DNA, 583 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: but we can compare them even though we combine the DNA. 584 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: It just so unlikely because we can take her DNA 585 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: and separate that out. You know, if it came directly 586 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: from her body, we can say, okay, that DNA we 587 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: know came from her, and we can say what's foreign 588 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 1: to her here, and statistically we can determine if if 589 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: there's one for one extra person, we can tell who 590 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: it is. If it's two people, we can tell that. 591 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's almost certain to be these two people, 592 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: and under the circumstances, nobody would believe that it wasn't. 593 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: Jen Smith, Dailymail dot com. What is next for these four, Well, 594 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: we're going to have to watch as they move through 595 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: the court process. Like you pointed out, it's very possible 596 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: that at least two of them might try and cut 597 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: a deal to save their own skin, and we have 598 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,479 Speaker 1: this very problematic statement by case and Carver, the driver 599 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: Pete states in very clear terms that he did not 600 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: think she was able to consent. So it's a court process. 601 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: We are still waiting to hear from Mattie's family. That 602 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: obviously is going to be a huge moment, and I 603 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: think they should be hard from We should hear what 604 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: they want to happen in this case. You know, personally, 605 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear from the families of these young 606 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: men too. What do they have to say about this? Well, 607 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you what they're gonna say. They're gonna say, 608 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: my boy would never do that. And I've got a 609 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: pretty good idea what Maddie's family is going to say, 610 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: but I'll let them speak for themselves. I can tell 611 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: you one thing that I think is going to happen, 612 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: and that is a seventeen year old unnamed minor is 613 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: not going to remain unnamed for long because he is 614 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 1: old enough to be bound over to Felony Superior Court 615 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: and treated as an adult. Rape is one of the 616 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: seven deadly sins, including accomplice too. That means he will 617 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: be treated as an adult. Why that hasn't already happened, 618 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: don't know. I assume the Napoleonic Code has something to 619 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: do with it. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace 620 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: comes Tooy, signing off goodbye friend.