WEBVTT - The Power of Vulnerability Feat. Jemele Hill 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:20.119 Mmmm, this is. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.960 Welcome back to good mom's bad choices. I'm Erica and 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:25.959 I'm Meela. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:27.880 And it's Wednesday, bitches. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.360 Happy mother fucking hump Day, Happy hump Day. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:33.360 How are you. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.040 I'm great, I feel good. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.880 I'm feeling like powered up for the for the first 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.159 of the month, the last of this year. I'm ready to, 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.879 you know, close this out strong and start again even stronger. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:47.760 And uh. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.720 In honor of this month, this month's theme is Power 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:57.800 Moves December, because we are going into January feeling powerful 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.800 because this year has been you know, it's done its thing, 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.000 it's been great, it's been high, it's been low. But 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.200 we always like to enter into the new year feeling activated. 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.760 And I thought, what better way to start this month 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.399 than with the guest we have here who I am 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:16.880 so excited. 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.560 I'm so fucking excited to have her. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.720 She came all the way out to our little studio, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.640 deep deep in the valley, and shit, she's on a 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.319 press tour for her incredible book. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.320 We have, Jamel Hill. 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:31.360 Thank you, ladies. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:37.760 I appreciate you having me here. I just feel slightly nervous. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.160 I'm so nervous. If I told my mom, you're coming. 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.320 She's like, Jamel, She's like, I might need a swing by. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:44.639 I was on record. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.600 I was like, Mom, don't fucking ring the doorbell. 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.440 Okay, I know it's really rare that I like tell 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:51.720 my family what's going on in my work because nobody cares. 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.360 But I'm like this morning, nine am, Hey guys, just 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.800 hi everyone, Hey grandma, I hey grandma, I'm interviewing Jammel 0:01:58.880 --> 0:01:59.280 Hill today. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.000 Decided to let you go us know that I can't bite. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.320 No, I'm nervous just because I listened to you guys 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.720 all the time. You have a fantastic podcast, and you're 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.639 just like so lit and you're so interesting and you 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.040 just made me feel sown boring. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.440 So that's all just like, ain't nothing boring about you. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.799 I'm like, man, I'm gonna come on there, and uh, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.680 you know, compared to the lives they live and the 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.359 things they talk about, I was like, my whole lame 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.480 score at us, Like this is about you are a trailblazer, right, okay, 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.160 three you saying that, but no, I like your your freeness, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.880 your boldness, like these things are all attributes that very 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.840 much inspired me. So I'm I'm very excited to be 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.640 here and slightly nervous. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:41.680 Well, thank you, don't be nervous. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.080 We don't bite well unless somebody ask you to. 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:47.480 This is just a light bite. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:50.800 Well, welcome to the show. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.080 We usually start off our show with an affirmation, so 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:55.560 I wanted to see if maybe you had when you 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.399 wanted to share with our peoples. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.440 I do so the mention that I wanted to share, 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.080 which is is kind of central to me, and that 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.120 is to and obviously it coincides with my podcast is 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.040 named it is to stay unbothered. And a lot of 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.000 people when I say the word unbothered, they think that 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.200 that means like not to give a fuck, But that's 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.080 not what it means. It means to stop giving a 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.680 fuck about the wrong things right about the wrong energy, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.919 about the people who have tried to sabotaze you, the 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.600 people who a gonna always talk shit about you, the 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.880 people who are going to interrupt your flow with their 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.960 negative energy. And so you have to stay in a 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.640 space of being unbothered in order for you to really 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:40.040 be your best self. You know, it's kind of like 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.640 that old adage you have to dance like nobody's watching, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.200 And so that's sort of the mentality I try to 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.080 use when when approaching life, because if you start doing 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.960 things based off how you feel people will react, you'll 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.840 undermine yourself every time. So everybody out there, stay unbothered. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:59.760 Stay unbothered. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:01.600 When I think if I'm bothered, I think of like 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.800 the emoji of the fingernail skinning painted, Like that's what 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.720 I think. I'm like, sorry, I mean, how have you 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.560 like that? That's a huge statement and it seems small, 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:14.480 but like even for you, I know you've come from 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.440 like a very corporate background. You've done a lot of 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:20.560 journal like journalism, it's a very male dominated, white dominated 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.320 industry in space, and like I'm sure you've had to 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.640 I know you've had to bite your tongue a lot 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.240 and like stay in this space and probably put up 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.120 with a lot of opinions of people you didn't give 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.600 a fuck about, yep, and bite tongues. And I think 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.680 that is really like that is a huge, a huge testimony, 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.440 because a bitch like me, I'd be like, listen, I 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.160 got some shit to say, like you're fired. 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:47.279 Fuck well, I think when you get into corporate America, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.080 especially corporate journalism, you kind of know what you are 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.880 signing up for that. It is something you have to wager, like, Okay, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.279 on one end, there is this truth that needs to 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.599 be told. On the other end, I'm dealing with the 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.760 same white power structure that everybody else in every sector 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.240 of corporate America that's black is dealing with. And so 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.159 you just kind of have to decide that what you're 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.679 there to do is worth more than the people sometimes 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.320 that try to suppress what you're trying to do. So 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.080 you fight a lot of battles. Some of them you 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.080 in and some of them you lose. But the whole 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.400 point is that you're there to provide a certain amount 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.599 of resistance. So even though I came from very traditional media, 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.880 it was very instructive. It helped me develop and too, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.440 I think, to be the best journalist that I've ever been. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.440 And now that I'm in the season of really being 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.480 in the business of my own brand of being an entrepreneur, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.080 everything that I was able to take and learn, the lessons, 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.760 the obstacles, I've taken all of that and now I've 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.760 amusing that as you know, sort of the foundational training 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.480 as I proceed with this season of me. If you will. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.120 Tell us about that, like tell us about your journey, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.719 your journey. I know you're Detroit, and I know you've 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.400 done journalism live in Connecticut, Like how did you end 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.960 up here in this space with your own network? 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:08.520 And like you've come so far? 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.320 Man, this is not at all what was in the 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.640 career plan when I first started in journalism. And my 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.279 old ass has almost been in this business for thirty years, 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.880 which is frightening to think about. But I started when 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.719 I was two, so you know, it kind of makes sense. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.160 But I was very lucky to be one of those 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.359 people who knew really early and really quickly what I 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:32.760 wanted to do the rest of my life. So I 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.720 knew in tenth grade that I wanted to be a 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.039 sports journalist. And that's a very unusual dream to have 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.720 for somebody who grew up in Detroit, in the real hood, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.720 not the rap hood. So because of that, you know, 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.240 it just I would never have imagined that somebody in 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.440 my position would have the thoughts of doing this. But 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.000 it was a couple of things. It was one I 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.880 love to write. I was a voracious reader. I love sports, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.520 and back then, to keep up with your sports teams, 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.600 you had to the newspaper, So reading the newspaper. It 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.080 clicked in my mind, like, oh, people actually write about 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.040 this shit for a living. Okay. So I joined my 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:13.680 high school journalism staff and started writing for that. And 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.920 the professional paper in Detroit would publish the high school newspapers, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.240 so you had to go to a professional newsroom to 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.920 get your newspaper published. So the first time I stepped 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.520 into a professional newsroom, I was like, Oh, I could 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.720 do this shit, Like I really like the energy, the vibe, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.520 you know. It was just a lot of electricity in 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.120 the newsroom. And so ever since then, this is literally 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.720 all I've ever done. I've had only two jobs that 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.400 were not journalism related, and they were more like seasonal shit. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.400 I delivered phone books. I know most of your audience 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.360 listening is like, what the fuck is the phone book? 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.080 Remember the Yellow Pages or the Yellow Pages? 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:49.360 Right? 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:54.120 That shit is not easy to carry, okay, But I 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.560 was broke and I was in college, and what it was, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.400 they paid me seventy cents per book delivered, So I 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.080 had to deliver a whole lot of fucking books just 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.880 to eat, you know what I'm saying. And I was 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.800 slinging them shits everywhere too, like that that damn Yellow Pages, 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.080 might you know, wind up on your roof fucking around 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.200 with me? So so yeah, like I did that. And 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:17.800 then I worked at a snack counter at the W 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.840 at the Y m c A. Which I don't know 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.560 why anybody ever put me in charge of anything that 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:28.280 involved math, and also me minding the store because when 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.120 my friends came in, I just gave them all the 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.240 shit did I mean they got the hook up? I 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.600 was like, why didn't the person who owned the next store, 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.560 why didn't it ever dawn on them that it was 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.319 six dollars in the drawer, but all the cheetos are gone? 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.440 And like, what this ain't adding up. So I've been 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.760 very fortunate to always have pretty much been a page 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.920 roll list my whole life. And you know, the original 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.800 dream I saw for myself was writing for Sports Illustrated 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.120 because I was a writer and that was the preeminent 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.960 place for a sports writer to write for Sports Illustrated. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.080 And I was like, if I can just make fifty 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.720 thousand dollars a year, I would have made it. And 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.160 so my second job out of college, when I was 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.959 making forty seven, I was like, oh shit, And that 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.680 taught me a lesson, which was it's not that our 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.400 dreams and goals are too high, it's that they're too low. 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.920 To think that that was just it, and I thought like, oh, 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.200 I can retire after that is kind of crazy to 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.679 me now looking at the life I lead. So being 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.280 at ESPN was never on the vision board. Creating a 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.839 podcast network for black women was never on the vision board. 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:36.040 Being a podcaster, or even do a television none of that. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:41.079 All of those were things that happened based off adaptability. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.240 None of that was anything that I planned. But I 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.600 think that's okay, because you know, some of your greatest 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.760 surprises come from when you make these kind of spur 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.600 of the moment decisions that you have no idea that 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.400 are about to be life changing. So thankfully I made 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.760 some good ones because otherwise, you know, this could have 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.959 gone in a totally different direction. But yeah, that was 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.800 sort of my pathway, I guess to this point. But yeah, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.080 I mean I worked in Detroit, Raleigh, Orlando, you know, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.200 lived in Bristol, Connecticut, where ESPN is headquartered for four 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.160 and a half years, spent twelve years there and being 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.640 in LA I got here just because I wanted to 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.680 get more into film and TV production. I was obviously podcasting. 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.680 It's the first place. It's the first time I've ever 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.319 picked where I wanted to live since I became a professional. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.360 So I didn't want to fuck with anymore snow. I 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.280 wanted to be in a big city and I wanted 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.000 to be able to throw a rock and hit a 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:37.559 black person. That's all I needed. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:38.960 And I was like, I'm good, all right, because I'm 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.960 sure in Connecticut it was few and far between. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.440 Yeah, I mean they had a strong, believe it or not, 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.480 had a very strong West India community, not in Bristol, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.640 in Hartford. So I lived in Hartford because you know, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.480 living in Bristol, it's like why, but yeah, I mean 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.400 it's just it just feels very white. And me and 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.200 a friend of mine, my girl, Carrie Champion, who also 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.160 is an on air personality, She were not laugh about 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:04.800 the shit all the time. And she was like, you 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.080 know when we hit rock bottom when we were in Bristol, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:08.960 and I was like, when when we went in that 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.679 bar and they had carpet, we. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:12.280 Got to get out of here. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.559 She was like, she was like, they got carpet And 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.199 I was like, girl, girl, we used to I mean, 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.520 no lot like Bristol. It's hard to explain like ESPN's 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.040 in Bristol because it's sheep land. They get amazing tax breaks. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.560 And the founder of ESPN was from Hartford, which is 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.640 twenty minutes from Bristol. So if you want to be 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.200 on air every day, more than likely you have to 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.200 live in Bristol, Connecticut and you're in a profession where 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.720 you go where the work is the problem that it's 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.440 just it just kills your spirit, not your pair, but 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.160 just living there. And we laugh about this all the 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.320 time because Carrie and I were there at the same time, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:49.960 although I did a longer be it because we call 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.760 her a bed like I did a four and a 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.280 half year stretch. And you know we up in Ruby 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.800 Tuesdays like eat I mean shit Conega. I would never 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.079 eat elsewhere, right, No, no shame, no, just if you 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.800 with Ruby Tuesdays because why you're playing that black and 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.440 Tilapia is kind of everybody, right. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.920 You cann't listen, right, No tilapia, no anti girl. 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:16.760 That ain't no real fish. That's a farm rais this fine? Okay? 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.320 Well that fish is and that needs to be. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.600 They're farm raising that fish, making tilapias on you their farm. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.200 Raising out there. They're doing some kind of genetically don't trust. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.560 I did like tilapia for a long time until I 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.920 learned the things about that. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.480 That's why I don't educate myself abuse. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.000 That's why I don't do it because I know for 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.480 a feracious reader on certain ships, I don't have a ship. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.679 You want to know, right, food is out the US. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.760 Don't ruin it for me, you know what I'm saying. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.960 It's like something gonna kill me, black head to be 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.200 some delicious black and tidy black and trying to kill 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.840 us with the tilapia. That's the first Okay. 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.119 It's working. They've succeeded. 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.120 We had that go through some wood Bridge shark and 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.720 thought we were like, I do like what but but 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:07.560 to a select But no, that was life in Bristol. 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.839 It's like a bunch of chains, not a whole lot 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.480 of flavor, very white, very cold. And you know that 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:15.840 was my life for four and a half years. So 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.160 when I say I finally got a chance to I 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.200 was like, I can be in a city that has us, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.280 that is thriving and all this. I was like, I'll 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.480 take these fucked up state income taxes is all good? 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:29.400 How long have you been in LA. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:30.760 Since twenty eighteen? 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:31.600 Me? 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.320 He wasn't my husband then, but because we were, we 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.440 were dating seriously and we were long distance, so we 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.000 this LA is the first time we lived together. You're 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.360 in the same city, right, he lived. He was in 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.440 Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Oh wow, And then you were 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:45.720 and I was in Connecticut. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.640 I both moved here, and then you guys moved in together. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.960 When we moved in together, and he proposed two months later, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:54.720 which was really shocking. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.560 You guys dating before we. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.520 Had been We met in twenty fourteen and got serious 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.680 in twenty fifteen, so we had been dating about three years. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.320 Why were you surprised? Why was it shocking? 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.360 Well, we had talked about marriage. We had had a 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.800 ton of those, like you know, if we get married 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.679 or when we get married. We had a lot of those. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.079 But just move into a new city, across country, move 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.440 for both of us. Thought we might need some time 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.880 to just settle in and then just see how we 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.960 felt about like living together. Like we had traveled so 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:26.240 much together that I certainly didn't anticipate like, oh, if 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.720 he leaves the cap off the toothpaste, I'm a fire. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.320 On his ass, like I didn't like, I didn't think 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.040 we were gonna have those kind of moments. But it's 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:37.240 an adjustment, right, and so you know, I again I was, 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.680 I was really he got me, he was. I was 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.040 very stunned. So he proposed the day after Christmas. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.880 Is marriage something you saw for your future? Like, were 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.480 you like one of those little girls like one day, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.680 I don't know, get married. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.240 No, not at all, not with the marriages that were 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.680 in my family, you know, like my my mother, my 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.840 great aunt, and my grandmother. My great aunt and grandmother 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.800 are no longer living, but between the three of them 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.120 they were married eight times. So yeah, now they was 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.560 in them streets. So a r ip grandma and great aunt Gene. 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.320 I know, y'all was out there, but now they just 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.960 and I saw a lot of disaster in terms of relationships, 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:22.200 and my mother had very difficult, painful relationships with men, 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.040 and I just did not want to make myself vulnerable 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.640 in that way with another person. I mean, I certainly 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.600 had serious relationships, but I was never the little girl 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.000 thinking about the big wedding, thinking about prince charming or whatever. 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.480 If I never got married, I would have been totally fine. 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.920 So once I, you know, kind of got to a 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.920 certain point, I actually was thinking like, oh, yeah, this 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.720 will probably be it, and that's that's cool. You know, 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.800 when I met my husband, I think he was kind 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:55.600 of actually on the same tip. But men always are 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.840 like they never you know, they maybe think about getting married, 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.240 but it's never a central desire for them. So we 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.000 kind of had the same mentality, and you know, we 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.160 enjoyed each other's company. We had a great time, and 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.000 I'm sure somewhere God was like, well I got something 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.720 for y'all to motherfuckers right here, and then you know, 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.520 next thing, you know, a great love was born. 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:20.480 That's beautiful. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.680 I was listening to your episode with Angela Rye and 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.800 she was talking about how out of the friend group 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.440 like You're like, she's she's really proud of you because 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.680 you're not always the most vulnerable. And then this book 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.880 that you have Uphill, which congratulations a Ques book. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.720 Y'all make sure you go check out Jamal's new book. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.360 You really kind of get vulnerable and you get really 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.320 open in a way that no one's really ever been 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.440 able to experience, and dig into your childhood and really 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.800 people get to understand why maybe it is. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.160 You don't have that idea of marriage and all. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.480 Those things, and even that your husband kind of kind 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.840 of pushed you in ways to be more vulnerable, which 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.680 I think is which I think is often it's so 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.880 unique because I think women, we are usually the ones 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.399 that are like, go to therapy, like talk to me, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.520 why don't you cry? You know, And so to have 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.960 a partner that's been able to do that and and 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:21.360 just and support you through this this journey of from 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.600 from being a little girl till now, I mean, obviously 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.959 he didn't know you then, but I'm curious to know, like, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.800 aside from you know, you've had this amazing career and 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.080 I'm sure maybe you've been offered book deals in the past. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.879 Why now, like, why what propelled you to want to 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:45.000 write this book and really and really get deep the money? 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.639 Honestly, that was I didn't want to write a memoir. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.280 I did see myself as an author. I want to 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.400 be a fiction writer. That was it's safer. Yeah, you're right, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.520 I mean, and maybe that's part of my not being 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.440 able to be vulnerable. It's like, oh, I can create 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.520 a world, and some of that world might be drawn 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.000 off my own personal experiences, but nobody will ever know 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.919 what that is, and so I'm not exposing myself in 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:11.240 the same way. And you know, essentially, my literary agent 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.399 told me that there was tremendous interest in hearing my 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.520 story and that was kind of shocking to me. And 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.520 I know people are like, why would that be shocking, Well, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.360 you know, just because people may know me for being 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.320 at ESPN or know me for what I said about 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.360 Donald Trump or or whatever, that doesn't mean they want 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.680 to know the full story. But he's like, no, there's 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:33.199 going to be a lot of interest in there was, 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.160 and he once the book went to auction, that's when 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:43.040 several publishers bid on the rights to your book. He said, listen, 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.720 this is a good way for you to accomplish that 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.159 other dream you want to do, which is to be 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.800 a fiction writer. Like, get this book out there that 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.400 people you know hear from you, know your story, they'll 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.199 be invested in who you are, and it'll be that 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.119 much easier for you to take that next jump. And 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.360 once I decided that, okay, yeah, this is a good 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:06.040 pathway and the money's good, so why not. I'm not 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.320 the type of person I don't jumping shit halfway. So 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.119 I'm like, listen, I'm looking at this as like a 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.959 one shot deal in terms of writing a memoir, so 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.560 I gotta lay it all out there. And I know 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.679 that sometimes when people read celebrity memoirs, they feel like 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.879 they pull up their punches or they feel like I 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.679 don't think they were being totally true, like yeah, that 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.400 they're just maybe trying to make themselves look good and 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.399 all of this, and then I'm willing to expose certain 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.800 things that have happened to them or to be honest. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:36.520 And I was like, now, I'm not gonna do that 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.520 to people, you know, because certainly as a journalist, transparency, truth, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.480 those are things that are core principles of what I do. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.960 So I just decided here's what it is. And what's 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.720 funny is I'm not good in terms of vulnerability person 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.280 in person getting better work in progress, but writing. Being 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.000 vulnerabile in writing has never been hard. And I don't 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.359 know why that is something to ask my therapist. Shout 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.639 out to you, doctor Streeter, but yeah, just from the 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:06.480 you know, I write a lot about how I kept 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.879 journals as a kid, and maybe it's because it was 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.919 my first original Safe space is being able to write 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.680