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Speaker 1: Mmmm, this is.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to good mom's bad choices. I'm Erica and

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Speaker 2: I'm Meela.

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Speaker 3: And it's Wednesday, bitches.

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Speaker 4: Happy mother fucking hump Day, Happy hump Day.

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Speaker 3: How are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm great, I feel good.

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Speaker 5: I'm feeling like powered up for the for the first

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Speaker 5: of the month, the last of this year. I'm ready to,

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Speaker 5: you know, close this out strong and start again even stronger.

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Speaker 4: And uh.

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Speaker 2: In honor of this month, this month's theme is Power

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Speaker 2: Moves December, because we are going into January feeling powerful

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Speaker 2: because this year has been you know, it's done its thing,

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Speaker 2: it's been great, it's been high, it's been low. But

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Speaker 2: we always like to enter into the new year feeling activated.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, what better way to start this month

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Speaker 2: than with the guest we have here who I am

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Speaker 2: so excited.

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Speaker 3: I'm so fucking excited to have her.

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Speaker 2: She came all the way out to our little studio,

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Speaker 2: deep deep in the valley, and shit, she's on a

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Speaker 2: press tour for her incredible book.

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Speaker 6: We have, Jamel Hill.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, ladies.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate you having me here. I just feel slightly nervous.

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Speaker 3: I'm so nervous. If I told my mom, you're coming.

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Speaker 3: She's like, Jamel, She's like, I might need a swing by.

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Speaker 4: I was on record.

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Speaker 3: I was like, Mom, don't fucking ring the doorbell.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I know it's really rare that I like tell

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Speaker 5: my family what's going on in my work because nobody cares.

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Speaker 5: But I'm like this morning, nine am, Hey guys, just

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Speaker 5: hi everyone, Hey grandma, I hey grandma, I'm interviewing Jammel

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Speaker 5: Hill today.

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Speaker 4: Decided to let you go us know that I can't bite.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm nervous just because I listened to you guys

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Speaker 3: all the time. You have a fantastic podcast, and you're

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Speaker 3: just like so lit and you're so interesting and you

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Speaker 3: just made me feel sown boring.

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Speaker 2: So that's all just like, ain't nothing boring about you.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, man, I'm gonna come on there, and uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, compared to the lives they live and the

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Speaker 3: things they talk about, I was like, my whole lame

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Speaker 3: score at us, Like this is about you are a trailblazer, right, okay,

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Speaker 3: three you saying that, but no, I like your your freeness,

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Speaker 3: your boldness, like these things are all attributes that very

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Speaker 3: much inspired me. So I'm I'm very excited to be

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Speaker 3: here and slightly nervous.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you, don't be nervous.

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Speaker 3: We don't bite well unless somebody ask you to.

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Speaker 6: This is just a light bite.

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Speaker 3: Well, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: We usually start off our show with an affirmation, so

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see if maybe you had when you

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Speaker 2: wanted to share with our peoples.

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Speaker 3: I do so the mention that I wanted to share,

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Speaker 3: which is is kind of central to me, and that

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Speaker 3: is to and obviously it coincides with my podcast is

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Speaker 3: named it is to stay unbothered. And a lot of

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Speaker 3: people when I say the word unbothered, they think that

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Speaker 3: that means like not to give a fuck, But that's

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Speaker 3: not what it means. It means to stop giving a

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Speaker 3: fuck about the wrong things right about the wrong energy,

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Speaker 3: about the people who have tried to sabotaze you, the

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Speaker 3: people who a gonna always talk shit about you, the

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Speaker 3: people who are going to interrupt your flow with their

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Speaker 3: negative energy. And so you have to stay in a

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Speaker 3: space of being unbothered in order for you to really

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Speaker 3: be your best self. You know, it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: that old adage you have to dance like nobody's watching,

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Speaker 3: And so that's sort of the mentality I try to

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Speaker 3: use when when approaching life, because if you start doing

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Speaker 3: things based off how you feel people will react, you'll

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Speaker 3: undermine yourself every time. So everybody out there, stay unbothered.

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Speaker 4: Stay unbothered.

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Speaker 5: When I think if I'm bothered, I think of like

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Speaker 5: the emoji of the fingernail skinning painted, Like that's what

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Speaker 5: I think. I'm like, sorry, I mean, how have you

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Speaker 5: like that? That's a huge statement and it seems small,

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Speaker 5: but like even for you, I know you've come from

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Speaker 5: like a very corporate background. You've done a lot of

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Speaker 5: journal like journalism, it's a very male dominated, white dominated

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Speaker 5: industry in space, and like I'm sure you've had to

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Speaker 5: I know you've had to bite your tongue a lot

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Speaker 5: and like stay in this space and probably put up

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Speaker 5: with a lot of opinions of people you didn't give

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Speaker 5: a fuck about, yep, and bite tongues. And I think

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Speaker 5: that is really like that is a huge, a huge testimony,

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Speaker 5: because a bitch like me, I'd be like, listen, I

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Speaker 5: got some shit to say, like you're fired.

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Speaker 3: Fuck well, I think when you get into corporate America,

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Speaker 3: especially corporate journalism, you kind of know what you are

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Speaker 3: signing up for that. It is something you have to wager, like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: on one end, there is this truth that needs to

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Speaker 3: be told. On the other end, I'm dealing with the

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Speaker 3: same white power structure that everybody else in every sector

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Speaker 3: of corporate America that's black is dealing with. And so

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Speaker 3: you just kind of have to decide that what you're

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Speaker 3: there to do is worth more than the people sometimes

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Speaker 3: that try to suppress what you're trying to do. So

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Speaker 3: you fight a lot of battles. Some of them you

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Speaker 3: in and some of them you lose. But the whole

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Speaker 3: point is that you're there to provide a certain amount

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Speaker 3: of resistance. So even though I came from very traditional media,

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Speaker 3: it was very instructive. It helped me develop and too,

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Speaker 3: I think, to be the best journalist that I've ever been.

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Speaker 3: And now that I'm in the season of really being

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Speaker 3: in the business of my own brand of being an entrepreneur,

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Speaker 3: everything that I was able to take and learn, the lessons,

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Speaker 3: the obstacles, I've taken all of that and now I've

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Speaker 3: amusing that as you know, sort of the foundational training

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Speaker 3: as I proceed with this season of me. If you will.

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Speaker 5: Tell us about that, like tell us about your journey,

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Speaker 5: your journey. I know you're Detroit, and I know you've

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Speaker 5: done journalism live in Connecticut, Like how did you end

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Speaker 5: up here in this space with your own network?

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Speaker 4: And like you've come so far?

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Speaker 3: Man, this is not at all what was in the

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Speaker 3: career plan when I first started in journalism. And my

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Speaker 3: old ass has almost been in this business for thirty years,

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Speaker 3: which is frightening to think about. But I started when

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Speaker 3: I was two, so you know, it kind of makes sense.

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Speaker 3: But I was very lucky to be one of those

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Speaker 3: people who knew really early and really quickly what I

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Speaker 3: wanted to do the rest of my life. So I

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Speaker 3: knew in tenth grade that I wanted to be a

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Speaker 3: sports journalist. And that's a very unusual dream to have

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Speaker 3: for somebody who grew up in Detroit, in the real hood,

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Speaker 3: not the rap hood. So because of that, you know,

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Speaker 3: it just I would never have imagined that somebody in

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Speaker 3: my position would have the thoughts of doing this. But

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Speaker 3: it was a couple of things. It was one I

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Speaker 3: love to write. I was a voracious reader. I love sports,

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Speaker 3: and back then, to keep up with your sports teams,

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Speaker 3: you had to the newspaper, So reading the newspaper. It

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Speaker 3: clicked in my mind, like, oh, people actually write about

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Speaker 3: this shit for a living. Okay. So I joined my

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Speaker 3: high school journalism staff and started writing for that. And

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Speaker 3: the professional paper in Detroit would publish the high school newspapers,

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Speaker 3: so you had to go to a professional newsroom to

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Speaker 3: get your newspaper published. So the first time I stepped

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Speaker 3: into a professional newsroom, I was like, Oh, I could

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Speaker 3: do this shit, Like I really like the energy, the vibe,

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Speaker 3: you know. It was just a lot of electricity in

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Speaker 3: the newsroom. And so ever since then, this is literally

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Speaker 3: all I've ever done. I've had only two jobs that

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Speaker 3: were not journalism related, and they were more like seasonal shit.

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Speaker 3: I delivered phone books. I know most of your audience

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Speaker 3: listening is like, what the fuck is the phone book?

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Speaker 3: Remember the Yellow Pages or the Yellow Pages?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: That shit is not easy to carry, okay, But I

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Speaker 3: was broke and I was in college, and what it was,

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Speaker 3: they paid me seventy cents per book delivered, So I

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Speaker 3: had to deliver a whole lot of fucking books just

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Speaker 3: to eat, you know what I'm saying. And I was

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Speaker 3: slinging them shits everywhere too, like that that damn Yellow Pages,

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Speaker 3: might you know, wind up on your roof fucking around

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Speaker 3: with me? So so yeah, like I did that. And

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Speaker 3: then I worked at a snack counter at the W

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Speaker 3: at the Y m c A. Which I don't know

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Speaker 3: why anybody ever put me in charge of anything that

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Speaker 3: involved math, and also me minding the store because when

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Speaker 3: my friends came in, I just gave them all the

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Speaker 3: shit did I mean they got the hook up? I

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Speaker 3: was like, why didn't the person who owned the next store,

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Speaker 3: why didn't it ever dawn on them that it was

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Speaker 3: six dollars in the drawer, but all the cheetos are gone?

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Speaker 3: And like, what this ain't adding up. So I've been

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Speaker 3: very fortunate to always have pretty much been a page

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Speaker 3: roll list my whole life. And you know, the original

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Speaker 3: dream I saw for myself was writing for Sports Illustrated

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Speaker 3: because I was a writer and that was the preeminent

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Speaker 3: place for a sports writer to write for Sports Illustrated.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, if I can just make fifty

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars a year, I would have made it. And

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Speaker 3: so my second job out of college, when I was

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Speaker 3: making forty seven, I was like, oh shit, And that

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Speaker 3: taught me a lesson, which was it's not that our

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Speaker 3: dreams and goals are too high, it's that they're too low.

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Speaker 3: To think that that was just it, and I thought like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I can retire after that is kind of crazy to

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Speaker 3: me now looking at the life I lead. So being

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Speaker 3: at ESPN was never on the vision board. Creating a

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Speaker 3: podcast network for black women was never on the vision board.

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Speaker 3: Being a podcaster, or even do a television none of that.

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Speaker 3: All of those were things that happened based off adaptability.

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Speaker 3: None of that was anything that I planned. But I

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Speaker 3: think that's okay, because you know, some of your greatest

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Speaker 3: surprises come from when you make these kind of spur

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Speaker 3: of the moment decisions that you have no idea that

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Speaker 3: are about to be life changing. So thankfully I made

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Speaker 3: some good ones because otherwise, you know, this could have

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Speaker 3: gone in a totally different direction. But yeah, that was

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Speaker 3: sort of my pathway, I guess to this point. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean I worked in Detroit, Raleigh, Orlando, you know,

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Speaker 3: lived in Bristol, Connecticut, where ESPN is headquartered for four

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Speaker 3: and a half years, spent twelve years there and being

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Speaker 3: in LA I got here just because I wanted to

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Speaker 3: get more into film and TV production. I was obviously podcasting.

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Speaker 3: It's the first place. It's the first time I've ever

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Speaker 3: picked where I wanted to live since I became a professional.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't want to fuck with anymore snow. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to be in a big city and I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be able to throw a rock and hit a

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Speaker 3: black person. That's all I needed.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, I'm good, all right, because I'm

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Speaker 5: sure in Connecticut it was few and far between.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they had a strong, believe it or not,

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Speaker 3: had a very strong West India community, not in Bristol,

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Speaker 3: in Hartford. So I lived in Hartford because you know,

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Speaker 3: living in Bristol, it's like why, but yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: it's just it just feels very white. And me and

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Speaker 3: a friend of mine, my girl, Carrie Champion, who also

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Speaker 3: is an on air personality, She were not laugh about

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Speaker 3: the shit all the time. And she was like, you

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Speaker 3: know when we hit rock bottom when we were in Bristol,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, when when we went in that

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Speaker 3: bar and they had carpet, we.

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Speaker 4: Got to get out of here.

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Speaker 3: She was like, she was like, they got carpet And

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Speaker 3: I was like, girl, girl, we used to I mean,

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Speaker 3: no lot like Bristol. It's hard to explain like ESPN's

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Speaker 3: in Bristol because it's sheep land. They get amazing tax breaks.

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Speaker 3: And the founder of ESPN was from Hartford, which is

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Speaker 3: twenty minutes from Bristol. So if you want to be

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Speaker 3: on air every day, more than likely you have to

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Speaker 3: live in Bristol, Connecticut and you're in a profession where

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Speaker 3: you go where the work is the problem that it's

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Speaker 3: just it just kills your spirit, not your pair, but

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Speaker 3: just living there. And we laugh about this all the

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Speaker 3: time because Carrie and I were there at the same time,

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Speaker 3: although I did a longer be it because we call

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Speaker 3: her a bed like I did a four and a

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Speaker 3: half year stretch. And you know we up in Ruby

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Speaker 3: Tuesdays like eat I mean shit Conega. I would never

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Speaker 3: eat elsewhere, right, No, no shame, no, just if you

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Speaker 3: with Ruby Tuesdays because why you're playing that black and

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Speaker 3: Tilapia is kind of everybody, right.

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Speaker 2: You cann't listen, right, No tilapia, no anti girl.

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Speaker 3: That ain't no real fish. That's a farm rais this fine? Okay?

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Speaker 3: Well that fish is and that needs to be.

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Speaker 5: They're farm raising that fish, making tilapias on you their farm.

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Speaker 4: Raising out there. They're doing some kind of genetically don't trust.

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Speaker 2: I did like tilapia for a long time until I

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Speaker 2: learned the things about that.

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Speaker 3: That's why I don't educate myself abuse.

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Speaker 2: That's why I don't do it because I know for

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Speaker 2: a feracious reader on certain ships, I don't have a ship.

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Speaker 3: You want to know, right, food is out the US.

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Speaker 4: Don't ruin it for me, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: It's like something gonna kill me, black head to be

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Speaker 3: some delicious black and tidy black and trying to kill

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Speaker 3: us with the tilapia. That's the first Okay.

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Speaker 4: It's working. They've succeeded.

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Speaker 3: We had that go through some wood Bridge shark and

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Speaker 3: thought we were like, I do like what but but

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Speaker 3: to a select But no, that was life in Bristol.

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Speaker 3: It's like a bunch of chains, not a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of flavor, very white, very cold. And you know that

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Speaker 3: was my life for four and a half years. So

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Speaker 3: when I say I finally got a chance to I

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Speaker 3: was like, I can be in a city that has us,

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Speaker 3: that is thriving and all this. I was like, I'll

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Speaker 3: take these fucked up state income taxes is all good?

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Speaker 4: How long have you been in LA.

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Speaker 3: Since twenty eighteen?

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Speaker 1: Me?

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Speaker 3: He wasn't my husband then, but because we were, we

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Speaker 3: were dating seriously and we were long distance, so we

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Speaker 3: this LA is the first time we lived together. You're

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Speaker 3: in the same city, right, he lived. He was in

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Speaker 3: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Oh wow, And then you were

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Speaker 3: and I was in Connecticut.

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Speaker 4: I both moved here, and then you guys moved in together.

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Speaker 3: When we moved in together, and he proposed two months later,

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Speaker 3: which was really shocking.

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Speaker 4: You guys dating before we.

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Speaker 3: Had been We met in twenty fourteen and got serious

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Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, so we had been dating about three years.

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Speaker 4: Why were you surprised? Why was it shocking?

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Speaker 3: Well, we had talked about marriage. We had had a

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Speaker 3: ton of those, like you know, if we get married

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Speaker 3: or when we get married. We had a lot of those.

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Speaker 3: But just move into a new city, across country, move

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Speaker 3: for both of us. Thought we might need some time

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Speaker 3: to just settle in and then just see how we

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Speaker 3: felt about like living together. Like we had traveled so

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Speaker 3: much together that I certainly didn't anticipate like, oh, if

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Speaker 3: he leaves the cap off the toothpaste, I'm a fire.

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Speaker 3: On his ass, like I didn't like, I didn't think

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Speaker 3: we were gonna have those kind of moments. But it's

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Speaker 3: an adjustment, right, and so you know, I again I was,

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Speaker 3: I was really he got me, he was. I was

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Speaker 3: very stunned. So he proposed the day after Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Is marriage something you saw for your future? Like, were

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Speaker 4: you like one of those little girls like one day,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, get married.

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Speaker 3: No, not at all, not with the marriages that were

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Speaker 3: in my family, you know, like my my mother, my

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Speaker 3: great aunt, and my grandmother. My great aunt and grandmother

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Speaker 3: are no longer living, but between the three of them

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Speaker 3: they were married eight times. So yeah, now they was

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Speaker 3: in them streets. So a r ip grandma and great aunt Gene.

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Speaker 3: I know, y'all was out there, but now they just

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Speaker 3: and I saw a lot of disaster in terms of relationships,

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Speaker 3: and my mother had very difficult, painful relationships with men,

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Speaker 3: and I just did not want to make myself vulnerable

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Speaker 3: in that way with another person. I mean, I certainly

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Speaker 3: had serious relationships, but I was never the little girl

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Speaker 3: thinking about the big wedding, thinking about prince charming or whatever.

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Speaker 3: If I never got married, I would have been totally fine.

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Speaker 3: So once I, you know, kind of got to a

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Speaker 3: certain point, I actually was thinking like, oh, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: will probably be it, and that's that's cool. You know,

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Speaker 3: when I met my husband, I think he was kind

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Speaker 3: of actually on the same tip. But men always are

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Speaker 3: like they never you know, they maybe think about getting married,

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Speaker 3: but it's never a central desire for them. So we

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Speaker 3: kind of had the same mentality, and you know, we

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Speaker 3: enjoyed each other's company. We had a great time, and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure somewhere God was like, well I got something

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Speaker 3: for y'all to motherfuckers right here, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: next thing, you know, a great love was born.

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Speaker 6: That's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to your episode with Angela Rye and

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Speaker 2: she was talking about how out of the friend group

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Speaker 2: like You're like, she's she's really proud of you because

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Speaker 2: you're not always the most vulnerable. And then this book

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Speaker 2: that you have Uphill, which congratulations a Ques book.

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Speaker 3: Y'all make sure you go check out Jamal's new book.

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Speaker 2: You really kind of get vulnerable and you get really

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Speaker 2: open in a way that no one's really ever been

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Speaker 2: able to experience, and dig into your childhood and really

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Speaker 2: people get to understand why maybe it is.

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Speaker 3: You don't have that idea of marriage and all.

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Speaker 2: Those things, and even that your husband kind of kind

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Speaker 2: of pushed you in ways to be more vulnerable, which

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Speaker 2: I think is which I think is often it's so

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Speaker 2: unique because I think women, we are usually the ones

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Speaker 2: that are like, go to therapy, like talk to me,

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Speaker 2: why don't you cry? You know, And so to have

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Speaker 2: a partner that's been able to do that and and

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Speaker 2: just and support you through this this journey of from

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Speaker 2: from being a little girl till now, I mean, obviously

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Speaker 2: he didn't know you then, but I'm curious to know, like,

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Speaker 2: aside from you know, you've had this amazing career and

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Speaker 2: I'm sure maybe you've been offered book deals in the past.

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Speaker 2: Why now, like, why what propelled you to want to

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Speaker 2: write this book and really and really get deep the money?

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Speaker 3: Honestly, that was I didn't want to write a memoir.

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Speaker 3: I did see myself as an author. I want to

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Speaker 3: be a fiction writer. That was it's safer. Yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, and maybe that's part of my not being

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Speaker 3: able to be vulnerable. It's like, oh, I can create

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Speaker 3: a world, and some of that world might be drawn

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Speaker 3: off my own personal experiences, but nobody will ever know

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Speaker 3: what that is, and so I'm not exposing myself in

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Speaker 3: the same way. And you know, essentially, my literary agent

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Speaker 3: told me that there was tremendous interest in hearing my

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Speaker 3: story and that was kind of shocking to me. And

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Speaker 3: I know people are like, why would that be shocking, Well,

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Speaker 3: you know, just because people may know me for being

365
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Speaker 3: at ESPN or know me for what I said about

366
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Speaker 3: Donald Trump or or whatever, that doesn't mean they want

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Speaker 3: to know the full story. But he's like, no, there's

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Speaker 3: going to be a lot of interest in there was,

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Speaker 3: and he once the book went to auction, that's when

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Speaker 3: several publishers bid on the rights to your book. He said, listen,

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Speaker 3: this is a good way for you to accomplish that

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Speaker 3: other dream you want to do, which is to be

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Speaker 3: a fiction writer. Like, get this book out there that

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Speaker 3: people you know hear from you, know your story, they'll

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Speaker 3: be invested in who you are, and it'll be that

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Speaker 3: much easier for you to take that next jump. And

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Speaker 3: once I decided that, okay, yeah, this is a good

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Speaker 3: pathway and the money's good, so why not. I'm not

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Speaker 3: the type of person I don't jumping shit halfway. So

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Speaker 3: I'm like, listen, I'm looking at this as like a

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Speaker 3: one shot deal in terms of writing a memoir, so

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Speaker 3: I gotta lay it all out there. And I know

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Speaker 3: that sometimes when people read celebrity memoirs, they feel like

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Speaker 3: they pull up their punches or they feel like I

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Speaker 3: don't think they were being totally true, like yeah, that

386
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Speaker 3: they're just maybe trying to make themselves look good and

387
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Speaker 3: all of this, and then I'm willing to expose certain

388
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Speaker 3: things that have happened to them or to be honest.

389
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Speaker 3: And I was like, now, I'm not gonna do that

390
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Speaker 3: to people, you know, because certainly as a journalist, transparency, truth,

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Speaker 3: those are things that are core principles of what I do.

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Speaker 3: So I just decided here's what it is. And what's

393
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Speaker 3: funny is I'm not good in terms of vulnerability person

394
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Speaker 3: in person getting better work in progress, but writing. Being

395
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Speaker 3: vulnerabile in writing has never been hard. And I don't

396
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 3: know why that is something to ask my therapist. Shout

397
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 3: out to you, doctor Streeter, but yeah, just from the

398
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Speaker 3: you know, I write a lot about how I kept

399
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 3: journals as a kid, and maybe it's because it was

400
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 3: my first original Safe space is being able to write

401
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Speaker 3: down how I felt, no matter you know, how fucked

402
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 3: up it was or you know, whatever it may be,

403
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 3: knowing that it was a space of no judgment. Writing

404
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 3: that's what it is, and so it wasn't actually that

405
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 3: hard for me to reveal some of the things that

406
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Speaker 3: I did. Now if you sat me down in an interview,

407
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Speaker 3: it might be different, or if you're one of my friends.

408
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 3: Because my friends were reading this book and they didn't

409
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Speaker 3: know a lot of shit that was in here, and

410
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 3: they're like, bitch, you lived a whole nother life. I

411
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: was like, I did. I did so, so yeah, so

412
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Speaker 3: I think you know it. Just it wasn't as tough

413
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Speaker 3: from that standpoint. The toughest part about writing this was

414
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Speaker 3: all the conversations I had with my mom, because you know,

415
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Speaker 3: we have she has her own personal trauma, which then

416
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Speaker 3: became shared trauma, you know, as somebody who's was molested

417
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Speaker 3: as a child then suffered a very horrific rape. Sharing

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Speaker 3: some of those things, or asking her about asking her

419
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Speaker 3: about those things, that was the tough part, because you know,

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Speaker 3: with her addiction and everything, I'm literally asking her about

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Speaker 3: the worst moments of her life, right and having to

422
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Speaker 3: put them into print, and so that part was tough.

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Speaker 3: But actually the decision to share and open up in

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Speaker 3: this way, it wasn't as hard as as people might think.

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Speaker 2: I was just curious about I'm curious about that too,

426
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Speaker 2: because me and me La, we just turned in our

427
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Speaker 2: book a few months ago that's coming out next year,

428
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Speaker 2: and you know, feeling like, you know, you're talking about

429
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Speaker 2: other people too, and you're sharing your truth about situations

430
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Speaker 2: that maybe are not their truths. And even with your mother,

431
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Speaker 2: I mean interviewing her and really and her having to

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Speaker 2: be a core part of the story line because she

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00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: is like, was she open to that? Was she was

434
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: she scared to share? Or was she ready to share?

435
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: And she was ready. She was very ready to share

436
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 3: because she really felt like her testimony, our shared testimony,

437
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 3: could help somebody. And these are a lot of the

438
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 3: things that I discussed in the book and the incidents,

439
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: those are things that, you know, most of which we

440
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 3: have talked about throughout, you know, our relationship. But there

441
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 3: were a lot of things I did not know, you know,

442
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 3: at all. And because some of the things happened when

443
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: I was in college, you know, I did not know,

444
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 3: for example, that my mother first tried heroin when she

445
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 3: was eleven. I had no idea until I talked to

446
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 3: her about it. This for this book, which you know,

447
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 3: kind of one of the takeaways that I want people

448
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 3: to have is that you need to have these conversations

449
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: with your people, with your parents, you know, like asked

450
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 3: them about their shit. They have lived entire lives before you,

451
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 3: before you came into the picture. They've had this appointments, fears,

452
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 3: failures that you don't even know about. And I think

453
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 3: it helps you give them grace and it helps you

454
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: see them as a full person.

455
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it humanizes them, and they humanizes them so much

456
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: because if not, I mean especially like if your parent

457
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: has been a drug user your entire life, you might

458
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 2: look at them as like, you didn't show up for

459
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 2: me in this way, I hate you. You didn't do this,

460
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: You didn't do that when you really understand why it is.

461
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: And for your mother, if you don't mind me sharing

462
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: me a good book, but I know that she was

463
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 2: molested by her uncle for many, many years and her

464
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 2: mother didn't believe her yep, or chose not to believe her,

465
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: and then moved him in to live with them. And

466
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: that's what and that's when she ran away from home,

467
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: and that's when she tried heroin. So it's like then

468
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: you start to see how the dots connect, Like, Okay,

469
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 2: so you were you were a survivor.

470
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 3: You suffer. One of the worst betrayals that a daughter

471
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 3: or a child could suffer is it when their parent,

472
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 3: in the worst moment of their life, doesn't take their side,

473
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 3: doesn't support them, and even worse, tells the rest of

474
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: the family she's a liar, and then it just set

475
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: into motion their relationship being complicated and turbulent. The love

476
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 3: was definitely there, but that betrayal is one that never healed,

477
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 3: you know, never did even up until my grandmother's last breath.

478
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: It never never healed. And so once I understood that

479
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 3: part of it, I knew about the uncle, I knew

480
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: about what my grandmother did did not know, as I said,

481
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: about when she first, you know, experimented with hard drugs.

482
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 3: And then once she told me that, I was like, oh,

483
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: now I see what the through line was is that

484
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 3: you've been self medicating for a long time because that

485
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: was your only refuge and it just as much as

486
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: I'd forgiven my mother years ago, and that wasn't a

487
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 3: whole lot to forgive because the one thing that I

488
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 3: admire about my mother is that she's always been accountable

489
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: about it and even at the height of her you know,

490
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 3: usage if she was she was gonna do some shit,

491
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: she would tell me she was doing it right. And

492
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 3: so there was never any surprises, so to speak. And

493
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: because of that, that is what made that capacity for

494
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: forgiveness to be as broad as it was, because I

495
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: think most people, what really keeps that resentment going, especially

496
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: toward a parent, is when they don't own their shit,

497
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: when they're not accountable, that just that sets the that

498
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: sets the conversation and the relationship off in a different manner.

499
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 3: And so because my grandmother was never accountable, that is

500
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: why their relationship was as fractured as it was. Even

501
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: though my mother, you know, she never abandoned my grandmother.

502
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: She was her caretaker, especially when her health got really bad,

503
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: and only maybe once in her life does she live

504
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 3: more than fifteen minutes away from my grandmother. But there

505
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 3: was you know, but when they fought, they thought, and

506
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: it was bad, and I was caught in the middle

507
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: sometimes and so that would be a tough position for

508
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: me to be in. But you know. This is why

509
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: such a powerful theme in my memoirs is just about

510
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: how that generational trauma just can just really eat up

511
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: the inside of a family.

512
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 5: Shout out to your mom for like having the bravery

513
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 5: and the wherewithal to not only be accountable, but then

514
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 5: be like, yeah, actually you can't.

515
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: You should write about it.

516
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 5: I think it's time to write about it because, like

517
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 5: I think, especially as black people, we come from long

518
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 5: lines of secrets, and that's our business.

519
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 4: You don't. You don't go out and tell our business.

520
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: That's right, what happens in this house.

521
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 5: And you know, growing up under the under that like scope,

522
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 5: it's it's just it's subconsciously built in you and you

523
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 5: and you literally feel guilt about telling the truth and

524
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 5: until and even in adulthood, it's it takes a lot

525
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 5: to undo that that not that curse, but it is

526
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 5: a curse. But you also have to think about like

527
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 5: how deeply it's seated and like where it comes from,

528
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 5: and just like having parent a parent to be like

529
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 5: and you should write it and I'm going to sit

530
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 5: down with you and tell and tell you about it.

531
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 5: From my perspective, is so powerful and I think like

532
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 5: even for Erica and I I didn't realize how powerful

533
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 5: it was for me to just like come talk about shit,

534
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 5: you know. Like we've had a four years of like

535
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 5: vocal journal, you know, and it's been so therapeutic talking

536
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 5: about it and talking about it. And then same like

537
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 5: even this book that we're really like writing, like writing

538
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 5: it and releasing it and like letting it go, and

539
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 5: it really does. It really does like heal generational curses.

540
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 5: It's really like putting shit into the light and letting

541
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 5: people learn and be like, oh damn, I'm not the

542
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: only one. Like oh my mom also didn't believe me,

543
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 5: or this happened to me and my family, and like,

544
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 5: and I think I was going to ask you, like

545
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 5: it's one thing to write about something and then you know,

546
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: walk away from it. But how do you how did

547
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 5: you think you're going to feel once it was published

548
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 5: versus how do you feel now that it's published? Because

549
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 5: I think even though you know what powerful moves you're making,

550
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 5: I think sometimes it's like even for me, my BO

551
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 5: doesn't even come out yet, and sometimes I'm like at night.

552
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: Like like it's coming out.

553
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 5: There's something I could do, you know, But like because

554
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 5: I think there is like embarrassment, you know, like damn, Like,

555
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 5: people are gonna know my life.

556
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 4: People are gonna know where I came from.

557
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 5: People are gonna know the dark secrets of when in

558
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 5: reality it's human shit. People are going through shit, and

559
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 5: you're like the woman you are as like powerful as

560
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 5: you are because you've been through these things and you've

561
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 5: had these experiences. But I think sometimes we shy away

562
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 5: from that and just want to show people like the

563
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 5: product and not all that's happened up until that point,

564
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 5: you know, So like, how has it felt now that

565
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 5: it's out people can purchase it and read your words.

566
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 4: So intimately, yeah.

567
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 3: It's a it's still a little unsettling because depending on

568
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 3: I guess what people knew me for and at what

569
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: phase in my life. Like I was used to at

570
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: ESPN people coming up and asking me sports questions, right

571
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 3: because that's they saw me on ESPN so naturally, and

572
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: then even after all the controversy with Donald Trump happened,

573
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: I was used to people coming up to me like,

574
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 3: let's talk about this racism. I was like, yep, let's

575
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: talk about it, and this white privilege. Okay, let's go.

576
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: So but those are things that there's a level of

577
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: cognitive dissonance for me because that's not about my real life.

578
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: It's just like, I'm just yeah, it's not personal. I'm

579
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 3: just pontificating on some shit. Yup the jets, yep, yep

580
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: ye racism. Can you believe these white people? I guess

581
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: I like, those are different. But now, and I remember,

582
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: Gabrielle Union is a friend of mine. She told me

583
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: this when she wrote her first memoir because she had,

584
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: you know, has shared the fact that she suffered a

585
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: traumatic rape. All these women knew Reddit were coming up

586
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: constantly sharing their rape stories, and I was like, girl, like,

587
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: how did you? That's so heavy, right, and you want

588
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: a comfort, But at the same time, you have to

589
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: protect your own mental space. And so that's the part

590
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: that I'm still kind of bracing myself for. Because I'm

591
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: happy that people who know people in their lives who

592
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: had to suffer with addictions, and even if they had

593
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: to navigate around somebody else's abuse, or even haven't been

594
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: sexually abused, all of those things, I'm glad you can

595
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: relate to the material. At the same time, I'm concerned

596
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: at the end of this of if people are doing

597
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 3: the same thing, like what mental impact will that have

598
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 3: on me? So far, it hasn't been that. Most people

599
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: have been like, oh, I was really inspired, you know,

600
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: they say a few words, but and then just being

601
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 3: embracing yourself for being asked about it, because again, it's

602
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: one thing to write it, another thing to talk about it.

603
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: And so I just guess to answer your question, I

604
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: still don't know. I feel fine today, but I got

605
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: three more cities.

606
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: To go down, three more cities, and the lifelong it's

607
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: always imputed. Yeah, books and people coming to you, And

608
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: I mean it is because then and they will, they

609
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: will come, and they will they will want to share,

610
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: and you.

611
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 3: Will have to protect yourself in ways.

612
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: And I know even for us sometimes like people share,

613
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: so we're always sharing, and then people come to us

614
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: and share such intimate parts of their lives.

615
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: And I'm like, am I giving good advice to you?

616
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: Am I supporting you? Like what happens after this? Are

617
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: you okay?

618
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 4: After this?

619
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about them like later on in my day, like.

620
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: Gosh, okay, I don't even know her.

621
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: No, that's a real thing. Yeah, because and even not

622
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: just about my reaction. You know, my mother and I

623
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: we did red table talk, and it was overwhelmingly a

624
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: positive reaction for sure. But you know, I just hope

625
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: as she because she lives in Michigan still, and I

626
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: just hope when she's just going about her daily life

627
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: that people aren't rolling up to her and being like, oh,

628
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: you know, tell me about that time you diocrats like yeah,

629
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: because they're not. Because sometimes people, when they see you

630
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: out there in the public eye, they feel like it

631
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: gives them license to say certain things to you. Like

632
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: I'm used to being in a public guye. She you know,

633
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: Denise is not you know what I'm saying. So I

634
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: don't know, you know, how she's going to handle some

635
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 3: of that or even you know, being more in the

636
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: limelight and having such a very complex story being told

637
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: and absorbed right in in the public. So we're just

638
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: learning as we go. So this is definitely a very

639
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: different sort of chapter than what I'm used to in

640
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 3: terms of being in the public eye in this way.

641
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think, gosh, your mom, it sounds like an

642
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: incredible human. I mean, she's gone through a lot, ye

643
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: through a lot, and she's she's here and look what

644
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: she's birth, you know, and she's giving you this gift too,

645
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: of like transparency and honesty that like you said, so

646
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: many people they don't they do not get and you know,

647
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: I think that that's there's something to that, there's something

648
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: really magical to that. And even being able to now

649
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: speak it out loud, I would be interested to know

650
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: how you feel in like six months, I would too.

651
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: All the talking.

652
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, really, I really believe and advocate for I think

653
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: speaking and you know in therapy too, like speaking really

654
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: is healing. And the more you have to talk about something,

655
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: the more you are able to release it. And I

656
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: know you've already forgiven your mother, but there's probably other

657
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: things in this book that you maybe still are like

658
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: working through and in a lot of ways definitely.

659
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: You know, in six months you might be like, yeah,

660
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, I'm cool now I'm doing with that well.

661
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: And then you know, realize that not everybody got to

662
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: see this book, and it's you know, before it was finalized.

663
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: My mother she read it, my husband read it, my

664
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: pother says read it, and some of us, some very

665
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: select friends. But like my dad just got it, like

666
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 3: he didn't get until after it was can you read it?

667
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: He did, and does you have opinions? He did which

668
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 3: he shared on Facebook.

669
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: Facebook, and they.

670
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: That's their diary and we have not had a conversation

671
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: about it, so.

672
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 4: That that's what you just saw it on Facebook.

673
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: And he never heard about it on Facebook because my

674
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: my mother let me know one and she was not

675
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 3: happy about And I don't I don't even I never

676
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: read what he posted. So I have no clue. I

677
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 3: don't know what how he feels about it. But however

678
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: he feels about it, and he should have called me,

679
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: and so I'm very curious as to how that phone

680
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: call is going to go.

681
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, should people have you know, you have

682
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: to meet people where their at, you know, and and or.

683
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: Not meet them at all. That's a word, that is

684
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: a word.

685
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

686
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: I didn't feel obligated to, you know, call every single

687
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 3: person that was mentioned and say hey, just so you know, uh,

688
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: the people who because and I know you guys probably

689
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: went through the same thing. Is that because you're sharing

690
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 3: your story, you wind up sharing other people's story too.

691
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: So I was very sensitive to the fact that I

692
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to tell anybody else's story, right, So you know,

693
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 3: that's why when I uh talked about having an abortion

694
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 3: in the book, I didn't give the real name of

695
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: the guy that it was because I don't know if

696
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 3: he's actually told that story to anybody. And you know,

697
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 3: to me, even though we have not spoken in probably

698
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: more than a decade, it would be you know, kind

699
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: of grimy of me to just like throw his name

700
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 3: out there and there, Yeah, you know what I'm saying

701
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: and be like, by the way, you know it's not

702
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 3: don't worry about it, right, It's like, that's not his

703
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: same you ain't even close. Don't be worried about it.

704
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: So you know, I was just being sensitive to that.

705
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: And while yeah, there are other ex's in the book

706
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: who I use their full name, but like, nothing outside

707
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: of regular relationship happened. Regular relationship should happened between us,

708
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: So I didn't feel like, oh, I got to tell

709
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: him about that time you aske didn't put the milk up,

710
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like I didn't have to

711
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: do that, but you you do have to be, you know,

712
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: really careful about that with relationships you actually want to

713
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: maintain and have. You know, some of the people mentioned like,

714
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 3: I don't give a fuck, So it really didn't matter.

715
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: Right, honestly, I mean, honestly, to be honest, I didn't

716
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 2: check it with really anybody, but I have been. I

717
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: was mindful about, like making sure that this was my

718
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: my testimony, and I'm not over sharing things that don't

719
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: really have any relevance too, and I had my editor

720
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 2: was like, okay, so I think you need to scale back.

721
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 2: This is not important.

722
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: Oh really, I was like, this is my dark this motherfucker,

723
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: but at least look my first draft was four hundred pages.

724
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 5: I don't even know I was capable of writing this

725
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 5: many pages. I was like, how many pages?

726
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: And I was like, you need to eliminate one hundred pages.

727
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: I was like, how's my life, bitch?

728
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 3: But I think that's good that you you put everything

729
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 3: in the kitchen sake, like that's what you do. You

730
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: put everything in, and then that's how the story starts

731
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: to form. I put it all in, and then as

732
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: I got some notes back, they didn't tell me one

733
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: hundred pages. They were like, this could be, you know,

734
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: just more cohesive, and I was like, okay, but I

735
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: started to see the story. I started to see the beginning, middle, end.

736
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 3: So but you, to me, you only get there is

737
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: if you put everything in, and then you can start

738
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 3: to arrange the puzzle pieces so that this all fits

739
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 3: into something that again is very cohesive. So I think

740
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: it's perfectly fine to overwrite. Sorry, book editors out there,

741
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: I know.

742
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 5: I was listening to your story about how your mom

743
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 5: went throughout your journal and I had I had a

744
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 5: very similar situations. I journaled all the time. It was

745
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 5: like my my safe space journaling journally. I have like

746
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 5: fifty fucking journals from my child. I don't know what

747
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 5: the fuck I was talking about.

748
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: You still have them, yes, okay.

749
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 5: Lots of hate speech charts my parents. But I had

750
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 5: more than one occasion when they read my shit, and

751
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 5: I remember it being so fucking like I felt so violated,

752
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 5: and it really fucked up my relationship with writing. Like

753
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 5: there was a point where I literally created a language

754
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 5: that I still remember, like literally I have a code,

755
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 5: like I can write in this language because I was

756
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 5: that paranoid about people reading my shit, because I was

757
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 5: writing so like personally, and there's a time where I

758
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 5: stopped writing. So I felt like when we got this

759
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 5: opportunity to write this book, you know, like time constraints,

760
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 5: checks are being written, They're like.

761
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 4: You guys need a ghostwriter and I was like, no,

762
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 4: I must hurt my own story.

763
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 5: But I realized, like if there was a block, you know,

764
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 5: like from being violated that way from my parents.

765
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 4: Like that that that avenue.

766
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 5: Of like therapy that I had, you know, invested so

767
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 5: much in as a child, I felt like I couldn't

768
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 5: trust it anymore. And it was like writing this book

769
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 5: was like a way of getting past that and like

770
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 5: getting personal again, because there was a time where I

771
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 5: felt like, bitch, don't be too honest in this shit.

772
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 3: Now it what happened last time? Bitch, you can't did

773
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: they once they read it? I assume they confronted you

774
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 3: with the information?

775
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 5: Oh girl, girl, I was writing about like my lesbian lifestyle.

776
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 5: I was like, I want to be a lesbian now

777
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 5: I w in eighth grade and they're like, you're not

778
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 5: a lesbian, You're not a lesbian. I'm like, I'm not

779
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 5: a lesbian.

780
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: I was thinking.

781
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 5: At one point, I was like a like a Christian school,

782
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 5: my mom must have kicked me and I wrote about

783
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 5: it and child the Christians un took my journal.

784
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 4: They called child services to the house.

785
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 5: What yes, the child services came and I was.

786
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 4: Like, she didn't kick me alive? I was like, bitch,

787
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: you kicked me.

788
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 5: I know you remember, They're like, you better, you want

789
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 5: to go to you want to go to adoption services.

790
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 4: I was like, no, I'm sorry.

791
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: It was very traumatic, you know, but I don't think

792
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: parents realize like what a mark that leaves, because I

793
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 3: had it happened to me twice once my mother when

794
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 3: she read it, and I'd say in the book what

795
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: happened as a result. And then I had an ex

796
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 3: that did that, that read it. I had an X too,

797
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: and that shit hurt. That was something else. And the

798
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: thing that really pissed me off about it was the

799
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 3: ex reddit didn't tell me he it, but used everything

800
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: in there to sort of weaponize the situation. Oh like

801
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 3: like because he then had insight, because he had insight,

802
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: and he also you know, there was some information in

803
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: there about you know, somebody at one point that I

804
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: had messed around with, and I never told him about

805
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 3: it because you know, some man.

806
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 4: They get a little at your goddamn business.

807
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: There's that part insecure, they get insecure. That's why I

808
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: didn't tell him. And I was just like, I'm not

809
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: gonna tell him because me and the dude, we were

810
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: just just friends, right, and you know, it just happened

811
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: one night, and uh, we were because we were still friends.

812
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to make this weird

813
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: because if I tell him he attu attitude. I just

814
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: don't really feel like going through all that. And but

815
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: and I think his position would have been you got

816
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: to in the friendship, right, And so I was like,

817
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 3: I didn't even try to go through all that. So

818
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: I was like, I just won't say anything. And so

819
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 3: he knew it, and he kept pressing me constantly because

820
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 3: I had written about him. He wanted me to be honest,

821
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 3: and I was like, why does.

822
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 4: He why does he kill?

823
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: And then he and then he finally told me that

824
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 3: he knew like he was on some just super secretive,

825
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: not super secret of some like extra manipultive, narcissistic shit.

826
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: So he knew he knew I had he I had

827
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 3: supp with this dude, and he kept asking me about it,

828
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 3: knowing I wasn't gonna tell the truth about it, right,

829
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 3: so he already he's already setting me up. Then then

830
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 3: he goes, this is how I know you're lying, And

831
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: then he said because he said the guy that I

832
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: slept with have been telling people, and that's how and

833
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 3: it got back there and everybody knows he completely lied

834
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 3: about how he found it out. And then you admitted, well,

835
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: then I did. But then I called the guy and

836
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: went in him. I was like, he was like, and

837
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: he told me. Then he was like, I just want

838
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: to let you. He's like, fine, we don't. We don't

839
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 3: ever have to talk again. It's all good, you know, whatever, whatever,

840
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: But I just want you to know your man is

841
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: lying to you. I never said a word to anybody.

842
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: He's lying. And I was like, because I couldn't think

843
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: of how else he would have known. And I was like, no,

844
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 3: you probably lie. So we totally fell out about it

845
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: or whatever. And then finally one day we were having

846
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: a conversation and you know, he said, he said something like,

847
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 3: you know, tell me something I don't know about you

848
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: or whatever, or tell me something you've been wanting to

849
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: tell me. Like we're just having a conversation. I don't

850
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 3: even remember what I told him. And I asked turn

851
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: a question on him and he was like, I read

852
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: your dirty and I.

853
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 4: Was like, motherfucker.

854
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: I was like what, And I'm thinking he gonna tell me, like,

855
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: you know, I snuck a cinnamon roll and I told

856
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: you I wasn't like something trivial. I was like, what,

857
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: And so he tells me this and then it's like

858
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 3: a beautiful mine where he's at the chalkboard and all

859
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 3: the shit starts clicking together, and I'm like, ain't this

860
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: a bitch? And when I tell you I was, he did.

861
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 3: I was so angry because I was like, okay, so

862
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: not only did you violate my privacy, you then weaponize

863
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 3: the information and manipulated this situation just to get me

864
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: to stop being friends with this dude who's free, Like

865
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: I just I blew up to rule a relationship, right, like,

866
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: and you were live from the beginning because you'll, you know, right,

867
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 3: because you were insecure. And I'm not saying that I

868
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: was right for lying to beg to begin with, Like

869
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 3: I should have just told him the truth and then

870
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: if he would have said, like, oh, you have to

871
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: stop being friends with this guy, then we just would

872
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 3: have had to just deal with that, which would have

873
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: been a no. But we just would have had to

874
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: deal with it, right, So okay whatever, But for you

875
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: to just create and concoct the situation, I was like,

876
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 3: I blew up at him and it's the only time

877
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 3: that I've ever been in a relationship. Why I swung

878
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 3: on the dude the only time, and because because of that,

879
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: so I have very traumatic experiences because you.

880
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 4: Know what, it's like, it's bigger than that, you know

881
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 4: what I mean.

882
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 5: I realized, like it's it's like a physical safe space,

883
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 5: but really it is, like it symbolizes feeling safe because like, no,

884
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 5: you didn't have to tell him you slept with your friend.

885
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 3: It's not you.

886
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 5: It's like now you know, so now I feel bad

887
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 5: to tell you. But my therapist told me something because

888
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 5: she said that her husband like call himself reader her

889
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 5: diary because I was telling her about this childhood experience

890
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 5: that fuck me up. And she was like, I told

891
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 5: my husband the version of me that you get is

892
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 5: this version because I get to write that stuff down.

893
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 4: Now if you look at it and you go look

894
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 4: at that version of me that's on you. I was like,

895
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 4: write this down.

896
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: Damn, that's good.

897
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 5: Now if you get that ugly version that's on you,

898
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 5: because this is I write that down so I can

899
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 5: get the this version of your wife. And I was like, whoa,

900
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 5: you can you have to write the ship down to

901
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,959
Speaker 5: get it out and that could be ugly and dark

902
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: and all these things and the secrets that no one's

903
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 5: supposed to know. But I realize is that, like it's

904
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 5: like a it's like a symbolism. Like as black women,

905
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 5: you like, think of the relationships you've been in.

906
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 4: You didn't tell him because you knew he was insecure.

907
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 5: You didn't tell him because you knew he couldn't under

908
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 5: he couldn't take that truth. And then still honor and

909
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 5: love you and support you. And a lot of times

910
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 5: we feel we we we and we feel that energy,

911
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 5: and so we lie and we hide ourselves and and

912
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 5: then we don't feel like we can express ourselves. And

913
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 5: then we're not vulnerable because we don't feel safe enough

914
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 5: to do that because we haven't been put in scenarios

915
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 5: in households, in families that have supported us in ways

916
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 5: that say you could be dark and ugly over there.

917
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 5: That's okay, that's a part of the experience, and get

918
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 5: it out and write it down and in fact, it's

919
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 5: like that didn't happen. I'm not apologizing, So that shit away.

920
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 5: Don't don't talk about it, don't think about it, don't

921
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 5: speak about it, don't write about it.

922
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 4: And then you're just stuck with all.

923
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 5: Of these feelings of ain not feeling safe, not even

924
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 5: in yourself that like damn, why am I doing this?

925
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 4: Why did I ho out like that? Why do I

926
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 4: have these feelings?

927
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 5: And you don't feel safe expressing them and getting them off?

928
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 5: And like I think that's the like the play of

929
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 5: like a lot of black girls growing up, Like you

930
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 5: don't feel safe anywhere, not in your family, not in

931
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 5: your household, not in your relationships.

932
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 4: And I didn't.

933
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 5: Realize how like once you can feel like, okay, mom,

934
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 5: I'm okay here. Oh you're not gonna You're not gonna

935
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 5: leave me, You're not gonna beat me.

936
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 4: You know right? You still wanna be my mama, you

937
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: know what I mean?

938
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 5: Like, then you can finally like deal with all of

939
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 5: the all of the child childhood shit, all of the darkness,

940
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 5: all the things like damn, am I like this? Or

941
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 5: am I like this because my mom was like this

942
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 5: to me? And is she like this because her mom

943
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 5: was like this to her? And why is her mom

944
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 5: like this to her? And you can sit with all

945
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 5: those feelings and sort them out, But it's not until

946
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 5: we're like we really feel safe enough in our own

947
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 5: bodies and our own selves and our own families and

948
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 5: support systems to do that that things become clear and

949
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 5: then we can become this version of ourselves to have

950
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 5: platforms and be like, wait, ithould be five years to

951
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 5: get this shit out, to be like I'm working on myself,

952
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Like Eric and I have

953
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 5: friendship is like has really grown in our podcast because

954
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 5: this is like my first friend and we both grew

955
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 5: up in the valley and the majority of my friends

956
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 5: here are white, And as I got older, I'm like, oh,

957
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 5: we're having differences. Oh you don't see this the same

958
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 5: way as me, because you.

959
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 4: Don't get it, bitch.

960
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 5: Oh you have a daughter and you have and now

961
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 5: you're a single mom and you feel like a baby mama.

962
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 5: And like I felt safe enough to be honest about

963
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 5: where I was at and how I was feeling, and like,

964
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 5: have this friendship that has really made me feel safe

965
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 5: enough to show up as I am like, yeah, you

966
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 5: might not like it, but fuck it. I have a

967
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 5: friend who supports me, and I feel safe here, so

968
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 5: I'm allowed to speak my truth and even though it's scary, still,

969
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 5: I'm allowed to be vulnerable. It's given me strength to

970
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 5: be vulnerable and to be like imperfect. So it's just

971
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 5: like sorry, like went down.

972
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: No, no, I mean appreciate.

973
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: You Know.

974
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: What I think about when I'm listening to this and

975
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: both of you is like, how vulnerability although it can

976
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 2: be truly uncomfortable, and you know, I think in ways

977
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: I'm still working through my own level of being totally

978
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: vulnerable as well, but it becomes a superpower. It really

979
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: is a superpower. And it's how we all kind of

980
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: connect to one another. It's how we even understand our boundaries,

981
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: even like you don't really know your boundaries until you

982
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: kind of are honest about shit and honest about what

983
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: you need to do, and like, you know, people don't

984
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: like boundaries.

985
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 5: And also when you look back on how the opposite

986
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: like festers in your families, when you look back on

987
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 5: your family history, and I look back at my mom,

988
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 5: who who's done crazy shit?

989
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 4: But she's like, you know, we don't tell nobody.

990
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 5: I'm like, bitch, this is the problem, right, you know,

991
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 5: Like when you see how it festers and how it

992
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 5: manifests in our parents and their parents and how angry

993
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 5: like my grandma is, I'm like, what the fuck is

994
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 5: so I angry about but like all these things because

995
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 5: you haven't felt safe enough to express yourself and be

996
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 5: vulnerable and be soft, and like, I'm just thankful as

997
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 5: like black women, you know, especially with like your network,

998
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 5: I'm bothered network, you are literally creating a space for

999
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 5: black women to unapologetically show up and be like this

1000
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 5: is a safe space for you. And how powerful it

1001
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 5: is when you put yourself other black women in the

1002
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 5: position for other black women to hear it and be like, oh,

1003
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 5: I can do that too, I can relate. It is

1004
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 5: some powerful shit that's that's taking place because that hasn't

1005
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 5: been the privilege of most of our lives. It's taken

1006
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 5: these like weird turns, you know, like speaking your truth

1007
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 5: and then like like no, bitch, corporate's not for you,

1008
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 5: this is for you, right and making this making the

1009
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 5: spaces for you, and like it's just it's so interesting

1010
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 5: how even when fucked up things happen to us, when

1011
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 5: you can tap into the vulnerability and tap into your truth,

1012
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 5: how pivotal it could be because, like you said, I'm sure

1013
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 5: you didn't expect to be podcasting and like writing a

1014
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 5: book based on your personal memoir and you're like very

1015
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 5: happy in fucking you know journalism where it's surfaced and

1016
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 5: it's not personal at all, but how transformative it's been

1017
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 5: when you're able to dig deeper and like be honest

1018
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 5: and show all the layers of you.

1019
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm being exposed is actually a good thing. And

1020
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: I've said this before about marriage, or at least about

1021
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 3: my marriage. I obviously can't speak for everybody else's. Is that.

1022
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 3: One of the reasons it was like the best thing

1023
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 3: I've ever done, is because it did force me to

1024
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 3: expose myself. And I've been in so many relationships where

1025
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 3: I only had to show versions. This was the first

1026
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 3: relationship I was in where I had to show everything

1027
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: and it was very frightening it.

1028
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, how did he challenge you in that way?

1029
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: Well, because I think the way that he is, like

1030
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 3: he's a very like direct person. If something is bothering him,

1031
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: he just he said what it is. He over communicates

1032
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 3: and so he's he's very and he likes that because

1033
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: he's he he's the type of person that if he

1034
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: doesn't handle something a certain way, he cannot rest. You know,

1035
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: it's a Bertha, He's a Leo August six. Yeah, so

1036
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 3: you know, you know that Leo here, they got to

1037
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: get it off that chess right there. I was like,

1038
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: you don't have to do it every time. It's okay

1039
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 3: to save something later. And I'm the opposite where something

1040
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 3: will happen. It might it'll bother me. And I was like,

1041
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: let me think about this for a second, like I'm

1042
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: strategizing how I want to approach something, or I decide

1043
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 3: maybe it's not really worth mentioning at all. And by

1044
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: him being as out front as he was, I have

1045
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 3: to at least meet him halfway. So he's demanding something

1046
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: of me emotionally, and to be honest, most of the

1047
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 3: men I had been with had never put a demand

1048
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 3: on me. I was largely in control of those relationships,

1049
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 3: and so this one was the first one where there

1050
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 3: was a level I had to actually step to step

1051
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 3: up to. And I was like, oh shit, this just different, right,

1052
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: I kind of gotta bring like my agay, okay, I

1053
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 3: can't just be you know, kind of uh, just turning

1054
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: in an average performance. Here. I got to like really

1055
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 3: do something. I gotta dig deep. And and he's somebody

1056
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: he asked a lot of questions, you know, because he's

1057
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 3: curious and he wanted to, and that for me was

1058
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: always a turn on because I'm sure you guys have

1059
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 3: been on dates before. They won't ask you about your

1060
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: life at all. They will tell you everything about theirs

1061
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 3: and won't ask you nothing.

1062
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 4: I'm dope as fuck. Don't you want to know? Right?

1063
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: Aren't you curious? You know? And that, just to me

1064
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 3: gives a red flag of you really aren't You really

1065
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: don't even care to know me as as a person,

1066
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 3: regardless of how this turns out. I mean, it could

1067
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 3: just be a relationship, it could just be a flirt,

1068
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 3: it could be something else, just something physical, but that

1069
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 3: means that you really don't. Honestly, it was about knowing

1070
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 3: anything about me. But he was never that way and

1071
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: so because of that, uh, it just forced me to

1072
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: be much more transparent than I was used to being.

1073
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 3: Plus he's like very secure in who he is. Also

1074
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: wasn't totally used to that either, and it took a

1075
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: little bit, even after we got married for me to

1076
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 3: to trust that security. I mean, I saw it, but

1077
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 3: when you're going through situations where it hasn't been there.

1078
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 3: He was like, dude, I really let me try, Let

1079
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: me let me throw, let me see, let me just

1080
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 3: little degrees. Uh, but yeah, but no, it just marriage

1081
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 3: really exposes, uh exposes you because that person is getting

1082
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: to know you on a totally different level than anybody else.

1083
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 3: I mean, you're you know, you're living it together, doing

1084
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: everything together, and you know it was a pandemic where

1085
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 3: we locked down or is a pandemic, but during lockdown,

1086
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: like we are up under each other and getting to

1087
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 3: to get to the core of some stuff. So yeah,

1088
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 3: it can be pretty frightening at times for me because

1089
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 3: I'm just like, oh, I'm not used to to doing this,

1090
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 3: and I think one day he had like said something

1091
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 3: that he just meant as an off hand comment, but

1092
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: it bothered me. Now, normally I would have just kind

1093
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: of blown it off or just thought about it for

1094
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 3: a while, like when do I want to bring this

1095
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 3: up or how? But I took a step out of

1096
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 3: the room because I had to do something in another room,

1097
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 3: and then I thought about it, and then I just

1098
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: reversed course and went back and be like, hey, when

1099
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 3: you just said that, like that.

1100
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 4: Really hurt feeling.

1101
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 3: It hurt my feelings. That bothered me. What were you

1102
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: what did you mean by that? And then he told

1103
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 3: me and I was like, oh, okay, I misread that,

1104
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: and he was like, see that's the value. Then you

1105
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: want to turn into a teachable moment. I was like,

1106
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 3: am I to ask you all that? He's like, but

1107
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: that is why he's like, I want you to share

1108
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 3: with me so that if you do have a misunderstanding

1109
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 3: or something, or just to open you know, kind of

1110
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,959
Speaker 3: the lines of committed. Because I'm an internalized yea.

1111
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 4: I will like shut down. I'm like, I don't want

1112
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 4: to talk anymore.

1113
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 3: I won't necessarily shut down, but I'll internalize and be

1114
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 3: thinking about it without communicating, without communicating it and without

1115
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 3: really dealing with it, so it would be in some

1116
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 3: lock box somewhere deep in my soul, bothering being. But

1117
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: then you know it's it's also bad because if that

1118
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: person who may have done something that I didn't like

1119
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: or I should have addressed, then when they do some

1120
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 3: you know, small like forget to hold the door open

1121
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: for me or something, and when I lose my ship,

1122
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 3: that's like, where did this come from? Because I hadn't

1123
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 3: two years ago when you said I remember that time, like,

1124
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: I don't say exactly, No, I don't. I don't. I

1125
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 3: don't remember that. So I have tried to get out

1126
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 3: of the habit of doing that, because that's how you

1127
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 3: wind up totally disintegrating relationships because I'm like, if I

1128
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: give a shit about working on the relationship, that means

1129
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 3: I have to be able to share these things.

1130
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 4: And not let shit like fester and grow like resentful.

1131
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 5: I think also for you, like like like being in corporate,

1132
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 5: being around a lot of white males, and like probably

1133
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 5: navigating very powerfully in your in your career. You know,

1134
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 5: it is like it's interesting how you can like navigate

1135
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 5: so powerful in your career and all these other things,

1136
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 5: and then when it comes to a relationship, the struggle

1137
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 5: is vulnerable bit and you're like, I.

1138
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 3: Can do everything, but those are It's so costly for

1139
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: black people to do that. And I think because we

1140
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 3: do often have to be in spaces where we have

1141
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 3: to code switch, where we have to minimize, where we

1142
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 3: have to shrink, that we would be naive to think

1143
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 3: that did not carry over into our real personal relationships

1144
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: and our real relationships, Like, of course it does, because

1145
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: we're forced to be in that mode probably eighteen hours

1146
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 3: a day, you know, most of us, So it becomes

1147
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 3: like such a terrible habit to try to break.

1148
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 4: And it irritates me too.

1149
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 5: So many people are like I hear on the internets,

1150
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 5: like you know, black women are so masculine, you know,

1151
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 5: like you know the reason you're in this position because

1152
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 5: you so you masculine. You want to be the man

1153
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 5: and the woman. It's like, no, nigga, I've had to, right,

1154
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 5: I survive, like we're right, niggas.

1155
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 4: A lot of you didn't show up.

1156
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 3: I wish I could wear my flowy dress in the garden, right.

1157
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 4: I being a delicated woman, you know, like this whole

1158
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 4: like this.

1159
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 5: We had an episode with Daphnie called the Return of

1160
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 5: the Soft Woman, and like, you know, and I feel

1161
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 5: soft ways, but sometimes I like, girl, it's not it

1162
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 5: all work that way, you know what I mean. And

1163
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 5: like even having to reprogram myself, like you know, like

1164
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 5: you do deserve marriage, you do deserve to have like

1165
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 5: a supportive partner.

1166
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 4: You do deserve to show up delicate and soft and shit, you.

1167
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 5: Know, because like I find myself even with my daughter,

1168
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 5: like I am like a sweet mom, but sometimes I'm

1169
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 5: like girl, no, I'm like.

1170
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 4: Get the fuck up, stop, Like and she's seven.

1171
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 5: And I'm like, bitch, this is your mother, and I'm

1172
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 5: like and your grandmother, But this is what I'm conditioned to. Like,

1173
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 5: you know, I'm not like bitch, but like girl, I'm

1174
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 5: not with all the bullshit. I'll talk to her like that,

1175
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 5: like I'm not don't play with me with the bullshit.

1176
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 3: Get up, let's go.

1177
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 4: And I'm like, and I've been around some of my

1178
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 4: white friends.

1179
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 6: And they're like, you can't say that.

1180
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 5: I'm like, yes, I can, you know what I mean,

1181
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 5: But like having to remind myself to be soft with myself,

1182
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 5: to be gentle even with my boyfriend.

1183
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: Like.

1184
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 5: Please get me some soda, like they could give me

1185
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 5: some soda.

1186
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 3: But it's hard, though, to break that because you know,

1187
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 3: I think for so long it is one of the

1188
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 3: byproducts of everything is let's go back to slavery. Slavery

1189
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 3: and just of the trauma we've suffered as a people.

1190
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: We have often parented our kids for a harsh world

1191
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 3: by being harsher than the world.

1192
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 4: Protect and ways to protect them.

1193
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 3: Let me get you'll get this here, let me get

1194
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: you know, let me do this.

1195
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 4: And on the field, this is might be punishable by death.

1196
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 4: Cort ever see you.

1197
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 3: So it is so it's like we get really, really harsh.

1198
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 3: And you know, my mother, like one of the of

1199
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 3: the many things she apologized for was some of you know,

1200
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 3: some of the beatings she gave me because it would

1201
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 3: be over a lot of times, it would be over

1202
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: little shit losing a barett or you know, kinship kinshit

1203
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 3: like ship that kids normally would do, like not being

1204
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 3: quiet or being restless. That's what kids typically do. And

1205
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 3: you know, there's a generation of pairs that will fuck

1206
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 3: you up over.

1207
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 5: There, and that's the beginning of losing your voice, that's

1208
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 5: the beginning of thinking I can't I can't express myself.

1209
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 4: Don't cry, boys, don't cry, but keep a sup what

1210
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 4: you crying phone?

1211
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: Because girls get to that shit too.

1212
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 5: Like you literally can't cry because it's not a good

1213
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 5: enough reason. And I think being black, there's like there's

1214
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 5: so much survival that that's required that a lot of

1215
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 5: times it's like, yeah, suck those fucking tears up. But

1216
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 5: when you're a child, that's not like that doesn't sustain

1217
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 5: a safety space, and so you're going into the world

1218
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 5: not feeling safe and you get those like that innocence

1219
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 5: taken away from you.

1220
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 4: You're not using your voice you're shutting.

1221
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,959
Speaker 5: Down, you're not using your feelings, and then you become

1222
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 5: grown ass women who can navigate in the workspace. But

1223
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 5: it's hard to have a husband who want you, want

1224
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 5: to get married and love you, and you're like, ugh, relax,

1225
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 5: relax with the love, babe.

1226
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 4: It's a bit much.

1227
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 3: That loss of agency, though, is something really important, because

1228
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 3: I think that was you know, for me as as

1229
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 3: a child, that was the emotion that was difficult, is

1230
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 3: that it just the law. I just didn't have any agency,

1231
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 3: and so I hated that feeling. And of the many

1232
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 3: wonderful things I discovered in therapy, because I start the

1233
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 3: book saying that how and it is a true story

1234
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 3: how I started going to therapy on a dare because

1235
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 3: my mother kept telling me I was angry, which only

1236
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 3: made me angry because I'm like, I ain't angry, all right,

1237
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: But it wasn't that. But once I started going to therapy,

1238
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 3: what I discovered was that I was a control freak.

1239
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 3: And I did not know this about myself. But then

1240
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: I just started to unpack it a little bit. And

1241
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 3: what happened was because of that sense of not having

1242
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 3: any agency, I went out of my way to overcorrect

1243
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: that as I grew into adulthood and beyond, And that's

1244
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 3: why my career has been such a primary focus for

1245
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 3: me and making sure I did the right things, got

1246
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: the right internships, followed a certain path. I was very

1247
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 3: regimented about what I did because I wanted to be

1248
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 3: sure if I can't control shit else, I'm gonna be

1249
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 3: able to control this. Know if that if I put

1250
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: this particular you know, effort into it, I know what

1251
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: the result will be. I can count on that. I

1252
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 3: can't count on people out here, but I can count

1253
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 3: on this giving me you know what I need. And

1254
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't discover that toil like four years ago.

1255
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 3: So I'm like, Dawn, I've been fucked up this. I'm

1256
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 3: been trying to control all the shit because I'm not

1257
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 3: that really that way with like personal relationships, but definitely

1258
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 3: about my professional life. Like I can I can just

1259
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: get very anxiety feeled and very like, oh, I got

1260
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 3: to know, like how is this going to pan out?

1261
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 3: Like just which is not really uh, not really cohesive

1262
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 3: with kind of the lay back spirit I generally have.

1263
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 5: I think it's probably like it's funny how shit happens

1264
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 5: for a reason. And like how when you are looking

1265
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 5: to heal and to grow, like God will put things

1266
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 5: in your way and it's like, no, bet, you got

1267
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 5: to examine this.

1268
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 4: You can't just keep functioning in this way. And I

1269
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 4: can even imagine.

1270
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 5: For you, like having this very successful career as a

1271
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 5: sports journal working at ESPN and then saying something that

1272
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 5: you feel like is within your full freedom of speech.

1273
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 5: You're like, no, this is my job, bitch, And then

1274
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 5: they're like, Nope, too comfortable, you know what I mean,

1275
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 5: and feeling like even feeling triggered by that in ways

1276
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 5: because you have you've done everything, You've done all the things,

1277
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 5: and you've worked your way up and you and you

1278
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 5: and you are and you're like an amazing sports journalist

1279
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 5: and you've done all the things. And then they're like nope,

1280
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 5: and they're like what the fuck, bitch, you know what

1281
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 5: I mean? And I can only imagine how that can

1282
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 5: shake up this little girl who's who's put all these

1283
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 5: things in place and controlled all these things and gotten

1284
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 5: to this point. And now you're like, what do you mean.

1285
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 5: It's still not it's still not solid. There are still

1286
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 5: ways and ways you can like shake up my whole

1287
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 5: ship and take things away from under my feet and

1288
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 5: I and I like, I'm sure now you're in ways

1289
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 5: grateful for that shift.

1290
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 3: Definitely. I mean, as you said, is that you know,

1291
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 3: God does put things in front of you that he

1292
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 3: wants you to dig deeper on. And it was what

1293
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 3: I realized after all the fallout from the Trump stuff

1294
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 3: is that I had gotten complacent in my career to

1295
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 3: some degree. I programmed it to such a degree, but

1296
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 3: I'd gotten complacent in it at the same time. Because

1297
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 3: once you're a place like ESPN, it's a destination place.

1298
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 3: You know, people want to end their careers there and

1299
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 3: say I've been there. Yeah, I've been there fifteen as

1300
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 3: a woman's huge, Like you know, it's it's the equivalent

1301
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 3: of when you hear black folks say, got that good

1302
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: government job. It was like, literally, you got benefits, you

1303
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 3: got right, all of that. And you know, I had

1304
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 3: other dreams for myself, other things I wanted to accomplish,

1305
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 3: but I was content with just you know, running out

1306
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 3: my contract and just like, oh, I'll just wait to

1307
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 3: this whole ESPN thing is over and then I'll get

1308
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 3: to some of the things I really want to do.

1309
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 3: And that's such a dangerous mindset if you get comfortable.

1310
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 3: Because you get comfortable and you're making the presumption of time,

1311
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 3: which if enters anything, we know you cannot make that

1312
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 3: presumption at all. And once all of that happened and

1313
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: I realized, after you know, I got suspended for a

1314
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, that my relationship with ESPN was untenable.

1315
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 3: At that point, I started to plot my steps on

1316
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: out of there because I was like, yeah, we we

1317
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,919
Speaker 3: I think even in a personal relationship, sometimes you reach

1318
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 3: a point where you know, you you know, when the

1319
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 3: last straw has has happened, y'all might even still wind

1320
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 3: up being together for a couple extra months. But you know,

1321
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: just like that story I told you about my ex

1322
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 3: reading my my diary, I was just like, oh, I

1323
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 3: knew it was after that, I was like, oh, this

1324
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 3: ship is done. And it was just like, okay, I

1325
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: know this is the end, but yet how is I

1326
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 3: got to applot out how we do end, or like

1327
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 3: how it ends?

1328
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: And that's that and that and that and that again,

1329
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 2: well that is a testimony.

1330
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 6: To that that that.

1331
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 2: Way of thinking of way how you plan things out

1332
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: even even out of that and that's and that's amazing

1333
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 2: that you were able to do that. And I think

1334
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 2: now that you haven't bothered the unbothered network and you

1335
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 2: don't have to tip toe around shit because I think

1336
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: as women, we have to tiptoe in relationships.

1337
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 3: We tiptoe around.

1338
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: Even we know, like this is over, I'm a tiptoe

1339
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 2: around the Shiit same with like in corporate America, tiptoeing

1340
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: around and in the space that you're in and the

1341
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: beauty of podcasting and it's and I think podcasting is

1342
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 2: getting more corporate now we have frands, wallships, all this.

1343
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 3: There's a level.

1344
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 2: Of tiptoeing, but there's still a real level of freedom,

1345
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 2: absolutely that I'm sure that you've probably never really experienced.

1346
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 4: In your works.

1347
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 3: I mean, this is it was. It's kind of a

1348
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 3: weird position. But looking at say Spotify with the Joe

1349
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 3: Rogan situation, right, I don't fuck with Joe Rogan, Like

1350
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 3: I don't even know Joe Rogan, Right, I don't fuck

1351
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 3: with him. It's based off what I do know, Right,

1352
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 3: But all that being said, the same rules that apply

1353
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: to him apply to me. We're on the same platform.

1354
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 3: We're both exclusives a Spotify, and they have never once

1355
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 3: called me and said, hey, don't say that, like that's

1356
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 3: never happened, right, And So as much as I detest

1357
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 3: some of the things that Joe Rogan says, how I

1358
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 3: do think his platform is so big and he's such

1359
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 3: such stupid things, like that's what that's for him to

1360
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 3: worry about. But because he has the license to say

1361
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 3: stupid things, so do I. Right, And so you're it's

1362
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 3: sort of what what works. It works for both of

1363
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 3: us in a in a weird way, And it does

1364
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 3: feel good to not have to feel like I have

1365
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 3: to be so you know, corporate or so you know,

1366
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 3: kind of buttoned up.

1367
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 4: You know.

1368
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 3: For a lot of a lot of people that listen

1369
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 3: to my podcast, they had never heard me cursing like

1370
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 3: that before. And I was like, oh, no, I I

1371
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 3: get it in you know what I'm saying.

1372
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 2: So and I think also in like in spaces like

1373
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 2: in corporate, like black women have opinions, are always talking.

1374
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: They always label us as outspoken, right, yes, no, it's

1375
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 2: the out supposed to And it's like, I'm just honest,

1376
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: why does it have to be outspoken?

1377
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 3: Because the word implies that you're doing something extra, Yeah,

1378
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 3: like they are why you're a little reckless. Yeah, yeah,

1379
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 3: it's it's it's it's it's teetering, it's giving that a.

1380
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 2: Little bit intense with what I said, and actually I

1381
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 2: meant everything I said in that tweet.

1382
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 3: Yes, we had hit it with the per my last

1383
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: fail what I had said, and so yeah, you're I mean,

1384
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 3: you're you're so right about that is we often get that,

1385
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 3: you know, label of outspoken or and we.

1386
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: Ourselves as that. And I've been thinking about that. I mean,

1387
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 2: I don't even know if it says that anymore. I

1388
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 2: think I took it off.

1389
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 3: But like why, like because I said, because you're being

1390
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 3: you're just being honest.

1391
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: I'm speaking at all because I'm I will say that

1392
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 2: men on some there's some men that are out there

1393
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 2: that get labeled that way, but I think it's generally

1394
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 2: women it is, and especially if you're black or brown,

1395
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 2: like for sure, outspoken, a little reckless, wild.

1396
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 3: Risque, saucy, like it's just yeah, it doesn't. I know

1397
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 3: they mean it as a compliment, but sometimes it comes

1398
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 3: off like they you know, they feel like we're just

1399
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 3: being extra. You know, I'm just unbothered. I'm just.

1400
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 2: And speaking of unbothered, I just want to say, I'm

1401
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 2: so I'm so excited you have our girls.

1402
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 3: Yes they are Brittany in Germany, Brittany and Germany. They

1403
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 3: are amazing and yeah, you you all. What appealed to

1404
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 3: me about both of you all podcasts is like you

1405
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 3: have that homegirl energy, but that realness and with a

1406
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: with a with a tinge of wratchet, just a little

1407
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 3: sprinkle of it. I'm like, okay, you know, and so

1408
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,439
Speaker 3: it's yeah, like they're they're going to be great. I'm

1409
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 3: so happy that they are now being exposed to an

1410
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 3: entirely new audience. And you know, there are their first

1411
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 3: podcasts that appeared on the network and our second winner,

1412
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 3: our first original is Sanctified, which think of you know,

1413
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 3: all the that same, those same qualities and characteristics, but

1414
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 3: talking about ship that happens in the church, right, It's

1415
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 3: like that's necessary. Oh, It's very necessary. So they're I mean,

1416
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 3: how black women worship in this time is really interesting

1417
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 3: because because I think there's a generation of us. Maybe

1418
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 3: it's you know, I am older than you guys, but

1419
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 3: maybe it's like our twin generations of not really feeling

1420
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 3: like you have a place in the church because look,

1421
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 3: you're looking at a church body that's usually dominated by women.

1422
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 3: All the leadership is men. That's why they still talking

1423
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 3: about that purity and chastity shit. Yeah, you know. And

1424
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 3: so they're meeting stuff like that like head on about

1425
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 3: where black women fit, about how we're choosing to define

1426
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 3: our relationship with God for ourselves. So it's really really dope,

1427
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 3: and I'm just happy. You know, these are the kinds

1428
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 3: of products I wanted to put out on the network

1429
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 3: that gave black women a sense of belonging and a

1430
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 3: sense of place regardless of where you are, whatever station

1431
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 3: that you are are in life. And I'm not saying

1432
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 3: I know one hundred percent down who black women are,

1433
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 3: because we're evolving and we're complicated. But this to me

1434
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 3: is at least a step in giving us a you know,

1435
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 3: an opportunity to explore ourselves beyond the whole savior trope,

1436
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 3: mule trope like those kind of things. It's like, we

1437
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 3: this whole idea that we got to run into the

1438
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 3: burning building for everybody else, that's like fuck that sometimes

1439
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 3: we gotta let the bitch burn downers one right, I'm

1440
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 3: Karen Hell, I don't know, I don't know I can

1441
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 3: be here, but I'll tell you what, My black as

1442
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 3: ain't running up in there. So I wanted us to

1443
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,799
Speaker 3: feel comfortable doing that, comfortable putting ourselves first. And that's

1444
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 3: kind of what this network is supposed to represent.

1445
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,600
Speaker 5: Oh, thank you, thank you for being you know, the

1446
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 5: change that we need to see. We appreciate that, like

1447
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 5: we do need more spaces to be as versatile as

1448
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 5: we want to and and kind of give permission to

1449
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 5: black women that you don't have to just fit into

1450
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 5: this box. It can look like this, and it can

1451
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 5: look like this like Jamel or Erica or Brittany and Germany,

1452
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 5: and like you can take a teaspoon of all of

1453
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 5: it and mix that. Shut up, and we can come

1454
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 5: together even in our difference and even in our growth

1455
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 5: and our dissection of ourselves and are like our liberation

1456
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 5: on ways, because I feel like like the veil is

1457
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 5: being removed for us and when we're like, oh, look

1458
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 5: at her, she's Oh she's over there doing that, let

1459
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 5: me see what that looks like, you know what I mean?

1460
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 5: And like just having different versions of black women and

1461
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 5: having a platform like that is really dope.

1462
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 3: So well, thank you. So you know, I'm dying to

1463
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 3: know what the hell does this card Okay?

1464
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 4: Well, I'm ready to tell you, are you.

1465
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 3: Because I've just been staring at it like trying to decipher.

1466
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: With the picture at the top of the show, Jamielle

1467
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 3: pulled the World card.

1468
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 5: Yes, shout out to Mahogany Taro are black cards that

1469
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:35,800
Speaker 5: we live.

1470
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 3: If it says some shit like you got twenty four

1471
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 3: hours to leave, you.

1472
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 4: Can just be dead.

1473
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:44,520
Speaker 5: No, don't be talking like that. It's it's like an interpretation.

1474
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 5: But I think I think you're going to fuck with

1475
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 5: this one. It means upright, It means completion, integration, accomplishment, travel.

1476
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,600
Speaker 5: When the World card appears in a tarot reading, you

1477
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,799
Speaker 5: are glowing with a sense of wholeness, achievement, fulfillment, and completion.

1478
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 5: A long term project, period of study, relationship, or career

1479
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 5: has come to full circle that is scary, and you

1480
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 5: are now reveling in the sense of closure and accomplishment.

1481
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 5: This card could represent graduation, a marriage, the birth of

1482
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 5: a child that's also a birth of a child, or

1483
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 5: achieving a long term dream or aspiration. You have finally

1484
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 5: accomplished your goal or purpose. Everything has come together and

1485
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 5: you are in the right place, doing the right thing.

1486
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,799
Speaker 5: Achieving what you have envisioned, you feel whole and complete.

1487
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 5: The card invites you to reflect on your journey, honor

1488
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 5: your achievements, and tune into your spiritual lessons. Celebrate your success,

1489
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 5: and bask in the joy of having brought your goals

1490
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 5: to fruition. All the triumphs and tribulations along your path

1491
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 5: have made you into a strong, wise, more experienced person.

1492
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 5: You are now express gratitude for what you have created

1493
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 5: and harvested. Finally, make sure you don't rush into the

1494
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 5: next big project. Celebrating your journey will set you up

1495
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 5: for success when you are ready for the next challenge.

1496
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 3: I had gusbops for you, girl.

1497
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 4: Wow.

1498
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 3: Okay, seriously, that's a good word, because I definitely tend

1499
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 3: to jump from one thing to another. So maybe I'll

1500
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 3: try to take a beat as much as a book

1501
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 3: allows you to take a beat. I will take that

1502
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 3: under advisement. But what a what a word? Man? Okay,

1503
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 3: all right, the world, I see you.

1504
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I know you're ending your book tour

1505
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 2: in Detroit, so make sure you have a good fun

1506
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 2: old time there Strip Club maybe Detroit.

1507
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that is, you know, a therapeutic place

1508
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 3: for me. I love going to the strip.

1509
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 4: We should all go one day.

1510
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 3: There's no one here, we're gonna have to go out.

1511
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 3: I see, I thought that was just me. I don't

1512
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 3: want to diss l a strip clubs. Glad. I'm glad

1513
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 3: it's not just me. The ones in Detroit find each

1514
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 3: other in a city where strip clubs are possibly. You know,

1515
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 3: maybe I'm Magic City. I've had a blast of a

1516
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 3: Magic city before. So wings come on, And yet I

1517
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 3: have never had the wings. I have not had the wings.

1518
01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 3: I've been there to of course put some love young

1519
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 3: women through college, yes, but I have never actually had

1520
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 3: the wings. So I think the last time I was

1521
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 3: in there might have been New Year's Eve a few

1522
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 3: years ago. So me and my husband went and had

1523
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 3: a good time.

1524
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 4: It's time, it's I think it's that time again.

1525
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 3: A couple that can go to the strip club together

1526
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 3: stays together.

1527
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: There you go.

1528
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 3: That's my marital advice. Go to the strip club with.

1529
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 4: Your husband like that. Write that down.

1530
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 3: No, I mean, honestly, though, if I gave some advice

1531
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 3: for uh and I have figured this out. You have

1532
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 3: to design the marriage that's that's best for you. You

1533
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 3: cannot You may admire the happiness another couple have, but

1534
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 3: you have no idea the kind of diagram they had

1535
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 3: to in blueprint they had to create for themselves to

1536
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 3: have that success. There's like no one size fits all,

1537
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 3: like you know there. I mean, you guys have had

1538
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:57,759
Speaker 3: talked about this on on your your podcast before about

1539
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 3: you know, people engage in like open marriages. That might

1540
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 3: be what works for them. It keeps them together and happy.

1541
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,760
Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily work for me, But I understand that

1542
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 3: everybody has to custom their marriage to what works. And

1543
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 3: I become I think when I was, you know, sort

1544
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 3: of single, I was way more judgmental about how people's

1545
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 3: marriages operated because.

1546
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 4: You saw you had an idea for that's supposed to Yeah.

1547
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think we all go into it how

1548
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 3: we think it might work. And then once you get

1549
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 3: inside your own, and to be honest, once a lot

1550
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,759
Speaker 3: of my married friends start opening up more about their marriage.

1551
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 3: Once I got in the club, you know, so we

1552
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 3: had a little secret medius. It was like, oh, what

1553
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 3: y'all do that?

1554
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:35,799
Speaker 6: Okay?

1555
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 3: All right, and so yeah, just don't go into it

1556
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 3: thinking that it has to be custom designed a certain way,

1557
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 3: because something there there in every marriage is something truly

1558
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 3: unique that works for works for them, that would never

1559
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 3: work for somebody else. So yeah, and also keep you know,

1560
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, we spent a lot of this

1561
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 3: time talking about how it can be destructive the whole.

1562
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 3: Everything that happens in this house stays this house. But

1563
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 3: everything that happens in your marriage let us stay in there. Yeah,

1564
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 3: for sure, because everyone will have an opinion. They will

1565
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 3: have an opinion. And not only that is that you

1566
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 3: want to provide a layer of protection around around your marriage,

1567
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 3: so you can't let everybody into what's happening into your

1568
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 3: house for sure.

1569
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 4: Too many opinions can cloud the mind. Yeah, like some

1570
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 4: shit don't.

1571
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, this don't even need to be There's that. And

1572
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 3: also there is this level of sacredness.

1573
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 2: Is the special beautiful thing that only you guys share

1574
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 2: that no one else has. It's not even about whether

1575
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 2: someone's going to ruin it. It's almost just about how

1576
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 2: beautiful that is. Yeah, and I love that.

1577
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

1578
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 5: Okay, So before we leave, wait, no, speaking of relations

1579
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 5: I know, I'm okay, I'm getting into it.

1580
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: Without this because I thought we were going to bypass this,

1581
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 2: but then she said she was ready for this.

1582
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 3: I was ready for this, she came prepared, but then

1583
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 3: you guys were you guys have ruined it because then

1584
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 3: you started. Don't even worry about that. Don't wry about it.

1585
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 3: I'm like the threshold. It's like, what's the last porn scenario?

1586
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 3: Let me just elevator? And it got stuck right every

1587
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 3: one time this Maleman.

1588
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 4: People delivered.

1589
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 3: So now it's time for my favorite segment tour story.

1590
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 4: This is Jamail hire.

1591
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 3: Who stories. I mean, by the way, brilliant segment idea,

1592
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 3: one of those I was like, god, what did I

1593
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 3: think about that? So as right now my publicists watching

1594
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 3: over there in a look of slight horror, like where

1595
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 3: are you about? She can't wait?

1596
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: You know?

1597
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 3: A couple of disclaimers, all right, One, this is when

1598
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 3: I was single, long, long, long, long time ago. Right,

1599
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 3: this is probably at least a good stories, is it? Yes?

1600
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,600
Speaker 3: I think it's over twenty years old? Twenty ish, I

1601
01:16:53,600 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 3: should I should say that. So when I was leaving

1602
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 3: a job, some of my coworkers decided to throw me

1603
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 3: this amazing party and I was like, ooh, this is

1604
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 3: my last hurrah. This party is going to be everything.

1605
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 3: YadA YadA, YadA, So one of my girls that I

1606
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 3: was working with, she had been messing around with this

1607
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 3: dude like off and On, who, to be honest, was

1608
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 3: kind of community and y'all know what I mean about

1609
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 3: like community, community, community. He was kind of community. And

1610
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 3: even though she did she she started to develop feelings

1611
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 3: for community and develop feeling for a community. Right. But

1612
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 3: so she throws me this out some party at her

1613
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 3: house or whatever, and I mean it's like big, It's

1614
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 3: like a good old fashioned house party, being in there drinking,

1615
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,520
Speaker 3: we have the good old time. So I see community

1616
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 3: and me a community with flirt, right, So you do

1617
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 3: that's what you do because it's community.

1618
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 4: Right.

1619
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 3: So at the same party, I had invited like another

1620
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 3: dude that I like liked, and you know, he worked

1621
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 3: at like a local bank. He was cool. He was

1622
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 3: like a couple of years younger than me. I was like,

1623
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, I'm just like in my early twenties.

1624
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 3: So it's just like whatever. So he's just like, you

1625
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 3: know what, you got up later for the night or whatever.

1626
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, we had a party, but you know, shit,

1627
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 3: we can get into something after this. So I gave

1628
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 3: him the key to my apartment and told him to

1629
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 3: go wait. Ha ha, right, I just it's for real.

1630
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 3: So he goes to my apartment where he is waiting.

1631
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 3: So I was like, ooh, got a situation at home

1632
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 3: already waiting or whatever. Meanwhile, me and Community are like vibing,

1633
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,679
Speaker 3: and I'm just like this is so surprising, you know whatever.

1634
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 3: So Community and I have a rendezvous at the party

1635
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 3: and I completely forgot but I don't wait in my

1636
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 3: apartment or whatever, because me and me and Community went

1637
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 3: in the bathroom and the party and you know, did what.

1638
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 4: Community, what you do with community anything?

1639
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 3: Did community things and you know, I'm having a good

1640
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 3: old time or whatever. And it was this other dude

1641
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 3: who was a friend of mine who uh you know,

1642
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 3: we were We had like just been a little We

1643
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 3: had been off and on, like very casual, no no commitments.

1644
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 3: I actually went home with him and left the other

1645
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 3: dude at the house.

1646
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,600
Speaker 2: But you left the other dude at the house, community

1647
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 2: had fun in the bathroom, and then you went home

1648
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 2: with casual dude.

1649
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 3: Wow, that's what I'm done. The job is over.

1650
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 5: Comp I was tiring all that ass that I'm out.

1651
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I was like, I just then they at

1652
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 3: the house I said, where do you go? Did you

1653
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,639
Speaker 3: go home? And he was sleeping your bed? Like no,

1654
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 3: he eventually left. He waited on me for like four hours.

1655
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 3: Did you not coming? I just completely forgot to tell

1656
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 3: you tell him where I was. I was just like,

1657
01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 3: oh my bag, I just the party got too good,

1658
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,520
Speaker 3: Like I.

1659
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, your team was forgettable.

1660
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 3: I forgot to come home. We had never even that,

1661
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 3: nothing had ever happened between them was forgettable. It was just,

1662
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 3: you know, I guess I just there was a development.

1663
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 5: He left the vibe, righty things when they're president, like

1664
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 5: this is more exciting.

1665
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 4: He left the vibe.

1666
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean, and it was. It was my

1667
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 3: last night in this place. I was hopping on the

1668
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 3: play literally the next day, going to blow it up

1669
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 3: with a bang, so I say. And then for a

1670
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:32,679
Speaker 3: while I used to joke with a friend of mine

1671
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 3: like I can't show my face around there for like

1672
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 3: a good girl, no.

1673
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 5: Problem showing their face. They have no problem. They show

1674
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 5: right up everybody in the party, no problem.

1675
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 3: So that was that, you know, probably top three most

1676
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:48,720
Speaker 3: trifling things I've probably ever done. That was pretty good.

1677
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 4: It was three, you know, So there's.

1678
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 5: Like I do love that makes me want to like,

1679
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 5: send somebody to my house. I'll be right there maybe.

1680
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 3: To do yeah, Like it felt like, okay, this is

1681
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 3: cool to do. And I had the intention because you know,

1682
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 3: he and I had been flirting for a while, and

1683
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 3: then it just I was like, oh crap, I forgot

1684
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 3: about him.

1685
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 5: I feel like something that's something niggas do often. Yeah,

1686
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 5: go wait to the house, baby. I had to run

1687
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:12,839
Speaker 5: some errands.

1688
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 3: Although you know, dudes are very very particular about leaving

1689
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 3: you in their crib, like if they don't know, you know,

1690
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 3: because I know some people are thinking, like you would

1691
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 3: left the random dude up at your house.

1692
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to go into a dude's house alone.

1693
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1694
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 3: That's dirty, Like did you wash your sheets? Like yeah,

1695
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 3: it's just more more questions.

1696
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 2: I didn't make sure you've been there before, made prepared

1697
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 2: for me to enter, right.

1698
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 3: I was like, I was staying in a little, you know,

1699
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 3: crappy apartment that with some because it came furnished. It

1700
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 3: was okay. Still the TV they gave me, I don't

1701
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 3: about it right, So I'm good.

1702
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 2: So anyway, oh my god, Well, thank you for sharing,

1703
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: thank you for coming on the show.

1704
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 3: I'm so happy you came.

1705
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1706
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 3: This was This was a lot of fun. And again,

1707
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 3: y'all just keep doing your thing. Not that I have

1708
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 3: to tell y'all how to do that. And I can't

1709
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 3: wait to read you all's book. Can you devoce the

1710
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 3: title or no?

1711
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: A Good Mom's Guide to making bad Choices perfect Perfect.

1712
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 3: We're going to tell you all the ways in which

1713
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:19,719
Speaker 3: you can do that safely, feel free and safely amazing.

1714
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 3: Where can everyone find your book?

1715
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:21,679
Speaker 4: Everywhere?

1716
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 3: Everywhere books are so yes, there is the audiobook recording,

1717
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 3: and of course I'm encouraging people to order from black bookstores.

1718
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 3: A lot of them were very hard in the pandemic

1719
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 3: and just in general, I think bookstores are just essential

1720
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,799
Speaker 3: to community. Right bookstores and libraries, those are essential community

1721
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 3: pillars for me. So yeah, yes, it is available on

1722
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 3: Amazon and all that good stuff. But if you can,

1723
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 3: you know, hit up Mahogany Books or Uncle Bobby's or

1724
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 3: even if you have a local black bookstore near you,

1725
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 3: you can probably order online as well.

1726
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that, And make sure you check Jamel's

1727
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 2: podcast out on Spotify.

1728
01:22:57,960 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 3: Make sure you check out the Black Girl Bravado. Shout

1729
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 3: out to our Girls.

1730
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 2: Who are now exclusively on the Unbothered Network on Spotify.

1731
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 2: Anything else I'm missing.

1732
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 3: And also Sanctified, which is Sanctified and which is hosted

1733
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:13,879
Speaker 3: by Deborah Joy Whinings and woman is Pastor Levon Briggs.

1734
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 3: Nice and you know where to find us or if

1735
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 3: you don't, make sure you're watching us on YouTube.

1736
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 2: You can actually watch this episode on YouTube. If you

1737
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,679
Speaker 2: click the link in this episode description, you can watch

1738
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 2: the full episode on YouTube. Check out our Patreon for

1739
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 2: bonus content. We're going to Costa Rica, y'all?

1740
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 4: Are you coming? Did you get your fucking passport?

1741
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 2: We're taking months away, so we better hurry the fuck up.

1742
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 2: Make sure you go follow at the Good Vibe Retreat.

1743
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: Come to Costa Rica. You deserve a five day, all inclusive, amazing,

1744
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 2: incredible vacation. I promise you will not regret this shit

1745
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 2: and we'll see you guys next week.

1746
01:23:48,320 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 6: Bye bye.

1747
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, what this is gonna?

1748
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 5: Ellena j Solo Baa Record, The Lollos and Elas