WEBVTT - Is it legal to sterilize addicts? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.560 from house Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.079 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.560 that makes this stuff you should know the podcast The 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.920 Addiction right, yea? How do I just realize I was 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.920 giving all kinds of awesome sign language but no one 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.199 can see that. I could see it just having a 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.560 beneficial effect on me, pumping you up. Yeah, um, Chuck, Josh, 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.040 you doing good? Great? Good, almost good. I'm great. It's 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.600 Friday afternoon. Glad to hear that. Dude. You're about to 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.320 go on vacation too. I am. You're probably pretty excited, right, 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.920 I am very y'all even tonight tomorrow morning? Awesome? Yes, 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.080 you're ready, Yes, Chuck. Yes. Do you know the economic 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.480 cost for child abuse in the United States? I do, 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.880 but I won't ruin it. It's massive. Let's talk about it, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.440 because you can chart anything. Yeah, it kind of money 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.720 to good at that, and they're really good at that. UM. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:14.440 You've got direct costs like UM foster care programs, law enforcement, 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.720 hospital care, medical costs, that kind of thing. Um, you've 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.760 got indirect costs like funding the court system, right, loss 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.760 of productivity for all the people who have to like 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.240 go to be on a jury, all that kind of thing. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.000 A hundred and four billion dollars in two thousand seven 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.200 is what child abuse costs the US, right, Josh, that 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.160 sounds almost like more money than we spend on education 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.680 in the United States. It was it was that year, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.880 well the year before. Yeah, yeah, and then interesting it's 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.680 interesting and said, yeah, um, so if you have no heart, 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.880 but dollar signs really makes sense to you, you can 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.400 agree that child abuse is a bad thing. Right. Uh, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.480 if you do have a heart, then child abuses bad thing. 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:05.240 Either way, it's a bad thing. Um. Child abuse, though, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.760 is not necessarily all just battering children or sexually molesting children. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.720 There's also and most of them are cases of neglect. Yeah, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.240 they have a stat here eighty six point six percent 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:23.280 or neglect. And they surveyed some child welfare workers and 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.640 is an awkward stat but it is of them estimated 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.680 that about half of their neglect cases were from drug 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:37.040 drug addicted parents, which makes sense. It does drugs. You're 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.200 not going to provide care for your child adequately. Um. 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.519 There's another study found that children who are born addicted 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.120 to drugs, meaning that they have drug addicted parents who 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.320 did drugs while they were pregnant, or drug addicted mothers 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.880 at least um, those kids are two to three times 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.720 more likely to be abused than non addicted children. I 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.560 would argue that they're already abused, that's that's a good point, 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.760 but even later on that they are much more likely 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:09.280 to become abused, probably through neglect, because if you are like, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.240 I really need to score some crack, you're not gonna 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.400 be like, but first I need to make sure my 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.720 child has a healthy dinner. I gotta pump and dump 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.840 before I go out and hit the streets. That's another 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.480 thing too. Um. So, what we've just done, and what 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.200 is not very difficult, we've connected, um, drug addicted parents 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.360 to child abuse. We started out with child abuse is bad, right, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.280 Why don't we just sterilize drug addicts so they can't 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.640 have any kids. That sounds like a great idea, does it? Uh? 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.080 It sounds like an idea that's actually being done, is 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.280 what that sounds like. And I have my dancing shoes 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:49.000 on for this podcast because this is tricky business dude. Yeah, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.800 you can see both sides. It's the slady. Barbara Harris 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.720 makes some points where I think interesting point. Plus she 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.720 has some cred. Let's talk about her real quick. Barbara 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.120 Harris is the founder of some thing called Commune or 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:06.920 Children Require a Caring Community crack because community spell to 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.560 the K. Yeah, that's I can't believe she stretched that. 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:14.280 She is a former International House of Pancakes waitress who 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.839 is a mother, a biological mother to six children and 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.360 an adopted mother to four African American children who are 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.680 born to a drug addicted mother. She walks the walk. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.640 She spent her days driving the United States in an 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:35.440 RV promoting her UM organization, the main purpose of which 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.599 is to carry out what's called project prevention, which is 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.960 what we just mentioned chuck sterilizing addicts. Yeah, and we 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.679 should say that her r V is not any ordinary 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.400 r V. It has the whole thing is decorated with 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.520 a huge picture of a dead baby, um, a line 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.760 of crack, cocaine, I believe, a razor blade, and then 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.520 some things just don't go together. Is the quote? Is 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.080 that right? I couldn't find that one. I've I read 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.120 that in a time article, I think, but Um, I 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.159 saw a picture of the one that she's using in 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.960 the UK, and it's a picture of a baby crying 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.120 and it says, Uh, she has her father's eyes and 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.839 her mother's heroin addiction. So she has a knack for 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.920 getting her message out there. And one of the ways 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.920 she has done that, aside from her RV, is a 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.200 string of billboards in the nineties in Los Angeles that 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:27.160 UM had taglines like don't let pregnancy ruin your drug habit. Yeah, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.240 it's gonna get some attention, yep. Or I think there's 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.360 another one who's like, UM, like drugs, are you pregnant, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.680 gets sterilized? Get three bucks or something like that, which 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.919 basically is like gets sterilized, We'll give you three hundred 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.039 dollars in drug money. Well, there you go. That the 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.120 cats out of the bag. Um, that's what we're doing there. Well, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.359 there's a lot of ways to look at this. It 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:52.120 is a bribe too. It's a bribe to drug addicts 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.840 who will in most cases spend there this money on 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.799 drugs to give up their fertility. This woman is buying 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.600 drug addicts fertility through her her program. Another way to 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.400 look at it is that she is taking a lot 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.719 of the burden off of the state. Um, who are 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.880 we're going to eventually be charged with caring for these children? 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.880 Were not yet conceived. Uh, And like we said, originally 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.880 there were billboards, flyers, aggressive methods like hanging out at 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.880 A meetings and n A meetings and basically, um, Barbara 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.360 Harris's view is that if you've ever been addicted, even 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.440 if you're clean, now just go ahead and get sterilized 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:39.000 because you've kind of given up your right to have children. 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:44.120 She doesn't see um reproduction as a right, which is 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.920 what makes her very contentious to most people, very controversial 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.760 thing that she's doing here. Yes, clearly, so, Chuck, how 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.440 does this work? Do you know? Well, Josh, Um, it's 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.160 important to point out that she will only accept someone 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.560 into the program it already has one child, at least 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.920 one at least one child, You're right, and Um, they 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.160 the drug addict will have to fill out the paperwork 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.000 and have their counselor probably social counselor or judge appointed 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.200 counselor sign something that says they are in fact drug addicts, 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.280 or a social work or in a rest report. They 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.720 have to prove your drug addict. First off, got to 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.040 prove it and then that you can either be sterilized 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.080 or you can go on long term birth control. Right 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.040 and um, if you go on birth control, you get 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.200 two hundred bucks. You UM get a hundred up front, right, 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.360 a hundred when you sign a contract that says I 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.600 will do this and keep it up in a hundred 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.040 after you prove that you're you're doing it, or you 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.360 get three hundred bucks. Here's what they do. This is 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.760 a bystander organization. They don't provide any kind of clinics 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.960 where you where they perform the sterilization. Basically, what they 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.760 do is say, prove to us you're a drug addict. Okay, 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.240 we believe you're a drug addict. You're not qualified. Sign 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.640 this contract. It says you'll go do this. Now, go 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.480 do it. Get Medicaid or Medicare to pay for your 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.760 sterilization programs, so you and I are paying for this 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.800 pre sterilization. And then come bring us a note from 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.360 the doctor that says that this happened, that proves that 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.640 this procedure happened, that you're sterilized, and here's your three 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.360 d bucks. And hey, if you bring by one of 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.720 your crack addic buddies. We'll give you another fifty bucks 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.640 if they do it. Yep, I always got to pay 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:30.080 the referral fee. Yeah, so no strings attached except for 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.600 a contract. That's another problem too. There isn't any kind 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.440 of counseling now. It's just no parent classes, no parenting classes, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.880 no UM drug cessation programs. It's just here's some money 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.559 to go give up your reproduction, your ability to reproduce. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.559 And since uh, it's founding, I'm sorry. Within thirteen years 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.840 of its founding, UM she has worked with more than 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.240 thirty seven hundred drug addicts in the United States, and 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.320 about a third of those were sterilized from my math 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:06.080 roughly the rest I guess or on long term birth control. Wow. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.200 And now she's making a way to the UK and 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.520 she wants to go to Kenya for women with HIV 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.120 and AIDS. Yeah. So that's pretty successful in the US, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.400 and thirteen years in the UK she's finding a much 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:22.199 harder time of it. Um. Well, she's getting a lot 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.840 more flak. Yeah, but she got support to begin with 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.679 us is the reading. She went over there, some anonymous 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.480 donor gave her twenty grand and she got a lot 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.839 of the BBC did a special on her and she 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.360 got a bunch of phone calls saying please come over here, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.520 and then the anonymous Downer came along gave her twenty grand. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.400 She says that she took that as a sign signs 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.240 she started to set up in in the UK and 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.480 if you go on the Project Prevention website, it says, um, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.640 there's a UK tab that you can click. Um, so 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.280 she is set up in the UK, and then you 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.120 also mentioned Kenya. She's getting probably the most grief of 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.120 all for Kenya. Understandably. Basically, she it has decided that 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.520 not only can you break the cycle of addiction by 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.199 taking away the ability to reproduce among addicts, you can 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.880 cure AIDS by just letting everybody who has AIDS die 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:15.000 out and not reproduced, basically children with AIDS or hiv UM. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.719 In both cases, it depends on how who you are 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.880 and how you're looking at it, because there are definitely 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.640 people out there who support this, the Kenya AIDS Initiative 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.439 and sterilizing addicts, because in both cases what you're looking 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:35.079 at is uh an end do a perceived cycle where 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.800 everything else is failing. It's not necessarily the case. Though 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:44.240 there is drug treatment for drug addiction, there are drugs 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.680 that can treat HIV. UM. There are also educational programs 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:53.080 that you can teach people to to take better care, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.400 take preventative measures. This lady is not interested in that 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.920 and in the I mean it's a part of the state, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:05.719 the government medical program here seeing well, yeah, I guess 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.320 you can get birth control for free. Here came Medicaid Medicare. 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.559 That's how this thing is functioning. Addicts go get these 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.680 procedures or their birth control for free, for through texpayer 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.120 funding programs like medicaid medicare, and she's given them three bucks. Um, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.960 just go talk about Kenya for a second longer. Did 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.080 you look at that? Uh? Now, I didn't look much 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.200 into it. Actually, she found a doctor who said that 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.360 he'll he'll insert i U d S, which is long 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.400 term birth control, but it's temporary, it's reversible, for seven 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:36.760 bucks a pop. And then her organization will pay UM 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.720 women with HIV AIDS UM forty bucks for it. So 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.360 forty seven bucks a person. She's just buying their reproductive 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.760 abilities in Kenya. There are a lot of people who 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.120 are frustrated by that. I'm sure. So Chuck, how is 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.600 any of this legal? Well, Uh, Planned Parenthood is one 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:02.840 organization that says, you know what, this is possibly illegal. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.920 Uh if you're talking contract law, because there's something when 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.680 you have a vasectomy or any kind of sterilization that says, uh, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.840 informed consent, like you have to be in there of 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.120 your own free will. It's not h Daddy isn't out 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:17.760 in the car forcing you to go in and get 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.520 your tubes tied. That kind of thing. Um they basically 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.720 you're saying that you know this three d bucks is coercive, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.120 it's a bribe, and it's not informed consent going on. No, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.839 because if if, if there's a bribe involved, Yeah, you can't, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:37.760 like informed consent can exist medicaid in medicare requires informed consent. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.560 But here's the loophole. The informed consent has to be 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.240 between the patient and the provider. Project prevention is a 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.960 third party and interested third party who is really not 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.120 involved in that equation. And the court protects the lady 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.520 going into get her tubes tied. Yes, And the court's 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.560 protecting the lady who's paying the US and to go 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.400 get their tubes tied. Because this is even though like 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:09.120 it's it's um extremely unethical and immoral in some people's eyes. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.120 It is still technically illegal because the provider of the 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.920 sterilization services not giving this this person three d bucks. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:21.320 Someone else's here too. Of her arguments which made me 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.480 at least sit back and think for a minute about 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.320 what the heck is going on here, because this is, 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.880 like I said, this is a narrow line this lady's walking, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.559 so I might say she's way way over it. Uh. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.080 One of the arguments used against her is that these 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.160 um women are not in their right mind to decide 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.400 to have this procedure done. They're on drugs. You're given 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.320 him this money. So her argument back is so they're 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.640 not of sound mind enough to have this procedure, but 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.520 they're of sound mind enough to decide to have a kid. Yeah, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.920 it's a good argument. Her other big argument is against 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.599 her is that you're taking away a woman's right to 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.200 choose to have a baby essentially, and her are gim 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.679 and reverses, Well, why is that right more important than 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.800 a child's right to be born into a normal environment 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.480 and have a shot at a normal life. So I 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.959 believe that she is not necessarily trying to create some 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.040 pure race of smart white people. I think she is 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.840 trying to stop crack babies from being born, but she's 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.280 doing it is definitely stirred the pot. The impression I 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.800 have is that even this lady's critics are UM say 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.680 that she's a true believer. Yeah, she's not, Like, she's 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:37.800 not a social engineer. She doesn't see it like that. 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.120 The problem is is, like I think a lot of 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.480 people are worried about where she's getting her funding. UM, 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:49.440 her largest donor apparently UM. Crack and Project Prevention have 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:55.360 about five thousand dollars a year in operating budget ok UM, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.720 which I guess is enough to fund to fuel the 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.160 RV around the country and keep the website going and 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.640 pay as many addicts as possible. UM. But most of 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.800 that money is coming from a guy who is a 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:14.520 billionaire named Richard Mellen Scafe. Right. I hadn't either, but 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.240 he's apparently UM on the right right hand of the 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:23.440 spectrum politically. Yeah. He runs the Pittsburgh Tribune, which is 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.440 a right wing newspaper as far as its leanings UM, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:31.440 and he The idea of a billionaire funding a project 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.160 like that scares the tar out of people because it 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:40.240 gives it a classist, um bent. Even if this lady 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.200 is a former eyehop waitress, if the people who are 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.600 giving her the money to do this indefinitely are billionaires, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.960 then what what you're talking about is how one person 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.520 put it. Um, you have a structure in which the 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:58.560 economically privileged can and do dictate who will and who 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:04.280 won't have children end quote, which means you're you're on crack, 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.480 or you're black, or we've decided that you're unfit to reproduce, 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.520 but instead of forcing it, we're gonna pay you. But really, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.400 what's the difference. Yeah, I mean, it's a nonprofit quote unquote, 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.040 but a nonprofit funded by a billionaire. It's different kind 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.200 of nonprofit, you know what I'm saying. Another criticism is 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.520 um that it is racially disproportionate. Um. She will point 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.760 out that a thousand clients were African American, whereas more 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.360 than eight hundred have been white. But Um, as far 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.880 as percentages of population goes, it's it's skewed heavily towards blacks. Yeah, 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.000 that makes a lot of sense if you I mean, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.120 in hard numbers, it's like, well, there's way more white 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:46.960 people than black people who have taken part in this. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.040 But if you look at the proportion of the population UM, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.600 seventies something percent of the US population is white, whereas 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.240 only like about thirteen percent is black, So those numbers 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.520 actually are very disproportioned new UM and also the original 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.840 billboards targeted low income, predominantly African American areas of Los 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:13.240 Angeles at the beginning. UM. I think ultimately what scares 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.040 people is that even if this is an addicts choice, 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.680 even if you agree, this addict is making their own decision, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.639 and in some cases there are UM. In this time article, 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.480 there's a woman named Joe and Chavarria, and she's just 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.280 like this model participant. There's a quote from her that said, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.080 like when you stop having kids, that makes you think 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.119 about what else you can do in life. She already 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.119 has five kids, the state has custody of them. She 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.760 got sterilized and took her three hundred dollars and bought 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.720 Easter presence and educational toys for her children, who she's 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.320 trying to get back. She already had three kids, and 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.280 then she gave birth to two drug addicted twins because 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.320 she was addicted to meth um. She started doing math 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.920 at eight months pregnant. Yeah, which is not a good 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:00.400 time to start doing myth start. That's a particular bad 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.119 time to start. I would agree with that. Um. Yeah, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.160 so she's a poster child. She is. But even if 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:12.760 she's walking around, right, the the whole idea that that 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.680 reproduction in reproductive rights should and could be controlled by 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.639 other people, whether they're a private organization funded by a 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:25.480 billionaire um or the government smacks of the eugenics movement. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.520 We've already done this before and it's it proved horrific. Right, 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.400 we need to talk about eugenics, we definitely do. Let's 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.720 do it well. Remember it came up in the Crimes 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.919 Them Photography, Uh our podcast? Right, Yes, it was a 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.239 big deal in the US. Yeah. When did it start? Night? 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.440 Turn of the Century night, early early twentieth century. Eugenics 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.960 was a movement a concept that you could create a 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.679 fitter human species if you removed undesirable traits UM like 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:58.240 chronic disease, UM, low socio economic status. Do you want 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.640 to hear with this this model law for eugenics. Yeah, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.680 we'll say what the model law is first. Who was 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.120 it that came up with that? A guy named Harry Laughlin? Um. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:07.920 He was the head of the Eugenics Record Office, and 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.560 I remember at the time in the the um this 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.720 was nineteen fourteen that he came up with the Model Law. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.480 There was this idea that, like you said, Chuck, you 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.680 could create a fitter human race by basically weeding out 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.280 the undesirable elements and we just letting the healthy, robust 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:27.480 ones reproduce. Simple as pie, you get yourself a nice 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:32.480 arian race boys from Brazil, right, Um, So to to 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.760 carry this out. Most people who are unfit don't really 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.800 consider themselves unfit, and even worse, in a lot of cases, Um, 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.520 one of the sure signs that they are socially unfit 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.000 is that they're sexually promiscuous. So you gotta take matters 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:49.879 into your own hands. And the government has to force 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.320 sterilization through the courts and not just formiscus. Should we 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.520 read out some of the things in the law. Well 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.440 this these are the undesirables, take it, Chuck, the feeble minded, 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:05.200 the saying, criminalistic, the epileptic, the inebriate, the disease, the blind, 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:11.720 the deaf, the deformed and dependent and orphans, near do wells, tramps, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.159 homeless and pauper's The only thing I don't see in 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.520 here is skullduggery. Right, I'm surprised that's probably in here somewhere. Actually, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.440 So that was the model law for UM forced government 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.080 mandated sterilization. You know, people who are targeting. Yeah, this 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.960 is the US UM. And by this by the time 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.119 this model law was created, UM, a couple of states 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:37.040 already had their own compulsory sterilization laws based on the 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.439 idea of eugenics. Right. I think Indiana and Connecticut were hot, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:45.119 hot on, hot on the trail. Yeah. California came fairly 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.680 late to the game. UM. In the early to mid twenties, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.960 they had a law. But by that time, by UM, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.640 hundred of the three thousand people who had been forced 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:02.840 to be sterilized under this law UM or in California. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.359 And one of the ideas behind it was that it 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:12.960 was a tax saving measure. Right. The really interesting considering 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.960 today's it sounds very familiar. UM. The U. S. Supreme 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:23.320 Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes very famously said something that 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.240 might also sound familiar as far as logic goes. UM. 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.720 He said, quote, it is better for all the world if, 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:33.399 instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.919 to let them starve for their imbecility. Society can prevent 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:41.439 those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. And 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.760 he finished up, and we'll talk about this case. Was saying, 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:49.040 three generations of imbeciles are enough. He's talking about Carrie Buck. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.640 And she was a seventeen year old in Charlottesville, Virginia. 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.879 She was the first person chosen to be sterilized in 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.320 Virginia under the Dow Model law. She had a kid, 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.439 but was not married. Her mother was in an insane 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.840 asylum called the Virginia Colony for the epileptic and the 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.000 feeble minded. It's not a place you want to visit 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.840 and not leave. Uh. And here's her story. She was 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:19.200 um picked because they thought that she shared hereditary traits 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:25.120 with her mother, a feeble minded, feeble mindedness, and sexual promiscuity. Uh. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.840 They thought it was genetic. She already had one kid, 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.680 and they thought, you know what, it's probable that she's 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.720 gonna have a socially inadequate child after this, and let's 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.080 sterilize her. Let's make her case number one in Virginia. 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.639 Took her. They went to court. Um, it went all 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.880 the way to the Supreme Court. Um, people testified against 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:49.920 her that she had a record of immorality and uh, syphilis, prostitution, 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:55.560 and untruthfulness. So the judge said, okay, let's sterilize her. 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:57.800 And it was upheld. And it was upheld because that 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.280 Oliver Wendell Holmes decision, that quote came from the majority 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.840 opinion that yeah, we should go ahead and sterilize this girl. 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.840 And she was sterilized. But what happened, Josh afterwards, Well, 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:12.199 what we her kid was studied UM tremendously. This was 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:16.280 not like, uh, there was popular, widespread support for eugenics 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.600 in the US, but there are also plenty of people 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:20.679 who are like, what are you doing? This is the 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.800 worst thing we've ever done. Um. So her kid, UM, 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:31.439 Vivian Buck was UM was followed her. A lot of 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.280 stuff was not entered into the public record when during 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:39.439 carry Buck's trial or hearings. UM. For one, she wasn't promiscuous. 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:43.840 She was raped by her foster parents relative right, um. 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.399 And then Vivian was not a an example of a 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.240 third generation feeble minded person. She was a solid beast 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.159 student apparently and was on the honor roll. UM. That 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:56.240 was her first grade report card. So basically this woman 0:23:56.320 --> 0:24:02.159 was the the test case to keep seralization going or 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.920 to really get it going, proved fraudulent in the end. 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:08.399 Well not only that, but her defense lawyer, it turns 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.600 out this was later uncovered, conspired with the lawyer for 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.000 the Insane Asylum to guarantee that would be upheld. So 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:20.000