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Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

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Speaker 2: And guess what.

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Speaker 1: Quint's is something that in the Todd household we already

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Speaker 1: the things I've been going through is I've transitioned from

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Speaker 1: being mister cot and tie guy to wanting a little

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Speaker 1: more casual but to look nice doing it. Is I've

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Speaker 1: become mister quarter zip guy.

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Speaker 2: Well guess what.

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Speaker 1: Guess he's got amazing amounts of quarter zips. It is Quints.

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Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

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Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

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Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

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Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw

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Speaker 1: that code. Hello there, Happy Monday, and welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I have to open up.

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Speaker 1: To do a little representing here to say I'm relieved

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Speaker 1: and surprised at the committee's decision with the University of

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Speaker 1: Miami and football is an understatement. I don't think any

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Speaker 1: of the sins that I've been identifying of this committee

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Speaker 1: should somehow be washed away. What they have done with

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Speaker 1: the SEC in Alabama is as suspicious as ever, and

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Speaker 1: I have I do not blame anger out of the

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Speaker 1: folks at Notre Dame. I think the strangest decision was

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Speaker 1: including Alabama. Actually the strangest decision was including Oklahoma. We

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Speaker 1: can have a longer discussion about that. And I have

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Speaker 1: still had a bunch of stuff to say about this.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that now all these ESPA personalities

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Speaker 1: at CURTA. Herdstreet are saying we should get rid of

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Speaker 1: this TV show. Good luck getting your bosses to agree

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Speaker 1: to do the TV show.

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Speaker 2: But you are correct.

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Speaker 1: The college football ranking shows created this antagonism of fan bases, suspicion, conspiracy, theory, ease,

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Speaker 1: all of that, the behavior of the committee, the lack

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Speaker 1: of sort of consistency, the decision, all that business it.

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Speaker 1: You know, they have nobody to blame but themselves. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend of mine quickly text he said, well

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Speaker 1: all your whining worked, and I'm like, hey, don't encourage me.

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Speaker 1: There's a I hope that's not the case in a

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Speaker 1: weird way. I hope it wasn't outside agitators like myself

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Speaker 1: and others pointing out facts that they were unaware of.

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Speaker 1: I should hope they were. That they didn't need people

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Speaker 1: to point these things out, but to say that how

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Speaker 1: this went down and the it is going to do

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Speaker 1: nothing but encourage more activity like the activity a bunch

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Speaker 1: of US University of Miami partisans participate in over the

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Speaker 1: last few weeks. There will be more of that come

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Speaker 1: next year, until they finally get rid of this committee

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Speaker 1: and allow basics what happens on the field dictates everything

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Speaker 1: hard stop. But like I said, I'll have more to

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Speaker 1: say about college football. And for those of you who

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Speaker 1: don't care about sports or college football, or have written

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Speaker 1: off college football because you don't like how they've been

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Speaker 1: doing this for frankly one hundred years, they have never

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Speaker 1: gotten their postseason, right, I get it, I understand, and

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Speaker 1: I will put this at the end of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Let me give you a rundown of what I got

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Speaker 1: going on today. We of course have got sort of

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Speaker 1: I want to go through a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: national of the of the new National Strategic Security Strategy

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Speaker 1: Memo that gets updated every year by whoever's in the presidency.

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Speaker 1: And to say there's a departure not surprising, but a

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Speaker 1: departure of of what role America should play in the

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Speaker 1: world is an understatement. Bottom line, the president of the

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Speaker 1: United States does not want to be the leader of

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Speaker 1: the free world, if you take the National Security Strategy

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Speaker 1: update seriously. I want to get into that a little

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Speaker 1: bit on this Trump pardon anger at Henry Quaar and

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Speaker 1: what it really tells us about how the pardon system.

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Speaker 2: Works in the Trump White House. But I want to

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Speaker 2: start with.

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Speaker 1: Sort of the news that wasn't That wasn't the headline,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's something that I wanted to spend

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Speaker 1: a few minutes focused on before I get to some

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Speaker 1: of the sort of you know, hot take headlines that

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: I want to dabble in.

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Speaker 1: I've got a few things, just sort of what I

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Speaker 1: would call a notebook item of news events that I

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Speaker 1: think folks need to be following more closely. But finally,

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Speaker 1: earlier this week, the Trump White House put out the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five National Security Strategy Memo, and.

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Speaker 2: Here's what it signals.

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Speaker 1: It signaled to a significant and explicit departure from the

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Speaker 1: long standing US foreign policy goal of actively spreading and

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Speaker 1: supporting democracy abroad. Here on the eve, you know, of

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Speaker 1: the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our founding as

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Speaker 1: a small D democratic country as the sort of beacon

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Speaker 1: of democracy for the world, this is not the role

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump and the MAGA movement wants the United States

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Speaker 1: to play. The America First ideology is strewn all through

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Speaker 1: this document. It reorients US policy away from what's been

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Speaker 1: a values based interventionism and toward a more strictly pragmatic

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Speaker 1: America First approach, defining core national security interests as sovereignty,

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Speaker 1: homeland defense, economic strength, and self reliance. No longer do

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Speaker 1: we believe in spreading our value, supporting our values, supporting

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Speaker 1: small D democracy when it's necessary. In fact, non interventionism.

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Speaker 1: The strategy explicitly criticizes past efforts to impose quote, democratic

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Speaker 1: or other social change that differs widely from their traditions

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Speaker 1: and histories. It's just a clear rejection of the post

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Speaker 1: Cold War consensus on democracy promotion in nation building.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: This is where there was a strong, sort of broad

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Speaker 1: bipartisan consensus that the United States should always first and

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Speaker 1: foremost support freedom, support democracy when it is obviously how

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Speaker 1: much do you use military to do it? Look, those

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Speaker 1: are fair debates, but to no longer be in the

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Speaker 1: business of supporting it or promoting it seems to be

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Speaker 1: a big mistake. The strategy memo also generally favors accepting

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Speaker 1: countries as they are, which of course is a cherry

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Speaker 1: picked thing. I'll get to that in a minute. As

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Speaker 1: their leaders quote as they are in regions like the

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Speaker 1: Middle East, prioritizing stability and transactional cooperation over shared interests

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Speaker 1: on shared interest rather than talking about internal political reform.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we've seen the Vice President lecture Europe and

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Speaker 1: not accepting Europe at face value. We've seen the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States lecture Brazil on how it decided to

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Speaker 1: deal with Bolsonaro, not accepting Brazil at face values.

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Speaker 2: So this is this is clearly a.

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Speaker 1: Philosophy that they will only sometimes follow depending on their

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Speaker 1: personal relationships with said country or said leader. But for

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Speaker 1: the most part, real politic is not something that you

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Speaker 1: hear me criticize. I think sometimes you have to deal

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Speaker 1: with the countries that you have, you have to deal

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Speaker 1: with the leaders that you have, not necessarily the leaders

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Speaker 1: that you want. But there's a fine line. Right, So

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Speaker 1: for as far as this administration is concerned, they believe

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Speaker 1: foreign policy to be judged by what makes the United

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Speaker 1: States more powerful and prosperous period, not by the form

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Speaker 1: of government of its partners. So it means we'll have

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Speaker 1: closer cooperation with essentially undemocratic regimes haters. It is, there

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Speaker 1: is no more value judgment on who the United States

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Speaker 1: does business with or allies with, unless we've decide there's

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Speaker 1: a value judgment on who the US. So you right,

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Speaker 1: it's like under that scenario, why are we h why

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Speaker 1: are we blockading Cuba?

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Speaker 2: Right? Why why aren't we just dealing with Cuba as

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Speaker 2: it is? Right? It's great, we have.

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Speaker 1: Select this is there's there's a clearly not.

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Speaker 2: This is this is a a.

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Speaker 1: An aspirational document, not one that they plan on following

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Speaker 1: when it's inconvenient to their own beliefs. On this one,

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is that the document also took a shot

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Speaker 1: at Europe. It criticizes the European Union and e integration efforts,

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Speaker 1: claiming they have suppressed political liberty, prevented innovation, and fostered

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Speaker 1: Europe's decline. Basically, they're on the side of the Brigsteers,

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Speaker 1: and they're on the side of everybody that and on

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Speaker 1: mister Orbon who's all anti EU. This is a document

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Speaker 1: even though these many of these countries are choosing to

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Speaker 1: do this. So out of one mouth they're saying, we've

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Speaker 1: got we've got to judge by what the United States

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Speaker 1: makes a more powerful and prosperous not by the form

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Speaker 1: of government of its partners. And then the next prep, hey,

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Speaker 1: you Europe don't try to get together and have a

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Speaker 1: powerful EU. So obviously there is a political dynamic to this,

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Speaker 1: which is this administration is going to support other nationalist movements, right,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a nationalist movement with Nigel Faraj in the UK,

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Speaker 1: a nationalist movement in Hungary that is pretty clear, and

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Speaker 1: with the controversial political party and the political movement in

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Speaker 1: Germany that AfD. It explicitly signals support for quote patriotic

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Speaker 1: European parties often interpreted as far right nationalist parties, calls

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Speaker 1: for the US to cultivate resistance to Europe's current trajectory.

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Speaker 1: So again, on one side of their mouth, this security

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Speaker 1: strategy memo says, hey, the United States is going to

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Speaker 1: accept countries as it is. Then in its next breath,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to Europe, they're saying, we're going to

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Speaker 1: get involved in the internal politics of European countries on

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Speaker 1: the side of nationalists. Sorry, if you were looking for consistency,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Trump administration is not a place to go.

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Speaker 1: This would be a dramatic intervention into the internal politics

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Speaker 1: of key allies, and we would be disrupting NATO, disrupting

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Speaker 1: the EU, essentially America's most important cultural as well as

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Speaker 1: sort of traditional allies for the last one hundred years.

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Speaker 1: I mean to do this to Europe feels like just frankly,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a troll rather than anything that

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Speaker 1: is in the best interests of the national security of

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Speaker 1: the United States. Now, there's still some soft power that

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Speaker 1: this memo that this strategy Memo does support. When discussing democracy,

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Speaker 1: the strategy member primarily focuses on defending and renewing American

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Speaker 1: principles at home, like limited government, the rule of law,

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Speaker 1: constitutional fidelity, and calling that the foundation of US strength.

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Speaker 1: And then it calls for respectful influence, stating that the

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Speaker 1: US will maintain its quote unrivaled soft power through which

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Speaker 1: we exercise positive influence throughout the world that furthers our interests,

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Speaker 1: but adds that the US will be quote respectful of

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Speaker 1: other countries, differing religions, cultures, and governing systems. Apparently except

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Speaker 1: when it comes to Europe. In the EU, it's a

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Speaker 1: key line that minimizes the impetus to push for political

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Speaker 1: change abroad. But the bottom line is this, This twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five National Security Strategy memo effectively ends the era

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Speaker 1: of America wanting to be the leader of the free world.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've always said the presidency of the United

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Speaker 1: States is really three jobs in one. When you're running

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Speaker 1: as a political candidate, you're running to be leader.

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Speaker 2: Of your party.

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Speaker 1: You're running to be the actual president of the United

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Speaker 1: States and of the three hundred and thirty million people.

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Speaker 1: So that's sort of job too, right to essentially actually

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Speaker 1: execute the office. And then the third job is leader

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Speaker 1: of the free world. But as far as Donald Trump's concerned,

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Speaker 1: that is no longer a job he we know he

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Speaker 1: has never saw him See, he does not believe he

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Speaker 1: should be the promoter of democracy around the world, the

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Speaker 1: promoter of freedom around the world. He is you know,

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Speaker 1: this is not as if he says one thing and

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Speaker 1: does another on that issue. He has never said he

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Speaker 1: wants to do. That's what's been inconsistent is he says, hey,

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Speaker 1: we should be just dealing with countries as they are, right,

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Speaker 1: this is what the decision we've made about China and Russia,

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Speaker 1: rather than hope we can make change subtly with soft

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Speaker 1: power or at times hard power, except of course, when

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Speaker 1: he decides he doesn't like somebody or he doesn't like

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Speaker 1: a political movement. So it is like many an ideological

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Speaker 1: de declaration that Donald Trump has made. There are so

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Speaker 1: many holes that there is Swiss that it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like a declaration of Swiss cheese. And this National Security

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Speaker 1: Strategy memo in many ways does echo the broad sort

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Speaker 1: of definition of what somebody would describe as an isolationists

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Speaker 1: of America, first of sort of detaching the United States

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Speaker 1: from the world, very much articulating what the philosophy of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party was before World War Two. The problem

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Speaker 1: is that is not how he actually executes the presidency right.

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Speaker 1: It is really there is no ideolize, there is no

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Speaker 1: Trump doctrine beyond what's good for Trump. Right, he gets

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Speaker 1: involved in a country. If somebody asks him to get involved,

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Speaker 1: he wants to be. You know, if he thinks there's

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Speaker 1: some benefit to him, he'll get involved. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you there's when you look at the deal he cut

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Speaker 1: with Cutter to give them this NATO like defense agreement.

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Speaker 1: Does that happen without the airplane? I think we all

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Speaker 1: know the likely.

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Speaker 2: Answer to that.

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Speaker 1: And I just put that out there because this is

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Speaker 1: a huge departure, and I know that there is This

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Speaker 1: is not something that a lot of people are going

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Speaker 1: to vote on, but I will tell you this, this

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Speaker 1: makes us weaker, and this makes us less safe. There's

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot of people who feel let

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Speaker 1: down by the United States. Feels as if the United

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Speaker 1: States doesn't ever really care about freedom and democracy, no

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Speaker 1: longer cares about human rights. And there's always been a look,

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Speaker 1: we've we've always been better on human rights rhetoric than

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Speaker 1: we've been on trying to use our influence to improve

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Speaker 1: a situation. Because there's you know, you know, just what

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Speaker 1: should our military be used for? Okay, I think those

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Speaker 1: are those are bare debates, but this is a total

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Speaker 1: sort of washing our hands of the debate about what

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Speaker 1: you know, should would the world be off if we

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Speaker 1: all lived under a democracy, and if you, as leader,

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Speaker 1: as president of the United States, don't believe that, I

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Speaker 1: don't think.

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Speaker 2: You should represent America.

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Speaker 1: We're an idea. We are not an ethnic based anything.

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Speaker 1: I know that the President would like us to be,

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Speaker 1: but we are not. The whole point of this country

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Speaker 1: was to was an idea that anybody could be an

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Speaker 1: American if they believed in the idea of America, the

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Speaker 1: idea of freedom, the idea of democracy, didn't matter what

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Speaker 1: ethnicity you were, what religion you practiced. That ultimately, do

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Speaker 1: you believe in that core idea of individual liberty? And

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Speaker 1: what this memo sadly does is sort of reject that

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Speaker 1: and isn't interested in promoting it, which should make us,

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Speaker 1: should make you feel concerned that if we're not interested

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Speaker 1: in promoting it, then are we really interested in and

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Speaker 1: having it here at home? So look, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to sit here and be one of these folks that

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Speaker 1: the democracy is about to crumble. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: I think our democracy is pretty well embedded in society,

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Speaker 1: and I just think it's going to be a lot

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Speaker 1: harder to destroy our democracy than some fear. But this

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Speaker 1: weekens the democracy. This erodes our credibility around the world

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Speaker 1: in ways that isn't going to get repaired with the

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Speaker 1: next president. This is generational damage and this retreat and

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Speaker 1: that's what make no mistake. This National Security Strategy Memo

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Speaker 1: is just a full retreat. Guess who loves this memo?

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, He's ecstatic. And in fact, Donald Trump Junior

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Speaker 1: was in Cutter along with his buddy Tucker Carlson earlier

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Speaker 1: this week and he was asked during an event in

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Speaker 1: Cutter Donald Trump Junior if the US president could walk

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Speaker 1: away from Ukraine, and Junior said, I think he may,

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Speaker 1: and then he adds this, what's good about my father,

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Speaker 1: and what's unique about my father is you don't know

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Speaker 1: what he's going to do. The fact that he's not

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Speaker 1: predictable forces everyone to actually deal in an intellectually honest capacity.

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Speaker 1: There's a few things where Trump's unpredictability is helpful. In

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Speaker 1: the Middle East it has been, and I think in

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Speaker 1: dealing with some of those countries that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: way it goes. But guess who was happy about the

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Speaker 1: new National security memom. The Kremlin lauded this, saying that

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Speaker 1: the new directive stopped calling Russia a direct threat and

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Speaker 1: calling that a positive step, according to Reuters, So.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 1: We now have a new national security strategy philosophy that's

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Speaker 1: governing this executive branch and the decisions that are going

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Speaker 1: to be made at the State Department, at embassies around

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Speaker 1: the world, the CIA, the Pentagon. That do that make

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Speaker 1: two countries happier above all others, Russia and China?

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Speaker 2: Is that good for America? Is that good for democracy?

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Speaker 2: I think we know the answer.

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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

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Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

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Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

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Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

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Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

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Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

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Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

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Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, guess what.

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Speaker 1: Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance

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Speaker 1: and some policies start as low as two dollars a

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Speaker 1: day that would be billed monthly. As of March twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no

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Speaker 1: medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect your family

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Speaker 1: So again, that's ethos dot com slash chuck. Application times

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Speaker 1: may vary and the rates themselves may vary as well,

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Speaker 1: but trust me, life insurance is something you should really

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Speaker 1: think about it, especially if you've got a growing family.

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Speaker 1: I want to pivot a little bit here, and that

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Speaker 1: is to the fascinating anger of Donald Trump at Henry Quaar,

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Speaker 1: the Democratic congressman who last week decided who got a

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Speaker 1: pardon from President Trump? And I told you on that

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Speaker 1: last episode, boy, nothing is done for free. So the

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Speaker 1: question is where did this come from? And what is

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Speaker 1: Quaar going to be giving in return? Well, apparently Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump expected something in return. So let me give you

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Speaker 1: a quick summary of sort of everything you need to

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Speaker 1: know about this Trump Quaar pardon controversy, because I actually

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Speaker 1: think this shows that basically Donald Trump is confessing a

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Speaker 1: crime right here, and it's and the crime is that

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Speaker 1: he is selling these pardons. Sometimes he's selling them for

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Speaker 1: actual money, and sometimes he's selling them for some sort

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Speaker 1: of political support. Well, let me go through this. So

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Speaker 1: here's the actual charges that Quai Are and his wife

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Speaker 1: are facing. They were indicted into four on a dozen

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Speaker 1: federal charges that included bribery, money laundering, and conspiracy. The

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Speaker 1: charges basically alleged that the couple accepted six hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars in bribes from a Mexican bank and an Azerbaijani

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Speaker 1: oil and gas company in exchange for advancing interests. So

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Speaker 1: I told you that these are the types of crimes

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Speaker 1: Trump has been pardoning left and right right. Anybody that's

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Speaker 1: been accused of essentially using their having being bought off

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Speaker 1: for their influence is something Trump doesn't think is a crime.

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Speaker 1: Tells you something right there, right. So, on December third,

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Speaker 1: he granted a full and unconditional pardon to both Henry

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Speaker 1: and Emmelda Quar, both both the congressman and his wife,

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Speaker 1: and it effectively ended the federal prosecution before the schedule

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Speaker 1: April twenty twenty six trial, which could have been a

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Speaker 1: huge problem for his reel lift. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: Trump justified his pardon by saying he was reversing a

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Speaker 1: quote politically motivated prosecution, he claimed, and he claimed that

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Speaker 1: the Justice Department and President Biden had weaponized the system

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Speaker 1: against Quaar simply because the congressman had been a vocal

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Speaker 1: critic of Biden's border policies. He called Quair beloved and

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Speaker 1: said he was speaking the truth against open borders. Well

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Speaker 1: after receiving the pardon, Quaar publicly thanked Trump but firmly

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Speaker 1: stated he would not be switching parties and he would

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Speaker 1: run for reelection as a Democrat in the twenty eighth

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Speaker 1: congressional district in Texas. Well, that's exactly what he did

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Speaker 1: earlier or just before the weekend. He filed the paperwork

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Speaker 1: for his reelection bid as a Democrat on the same

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Speaker 1: day the pardon was announced, and then Trump went off right.

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Speaker 1: He was really angry. He reacted to the strong public

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Speaker 1: criticism just a few days after the pardon, specifically lashing

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Speaker 1: out at Quaar for running as a Democrat. The core

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Speaker 1: of his complaint was perceived as a quote.

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Speaker 2: Lack of loyalty.

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Speaker 1: Let me read you the full truth social post. Only

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Speaker 1: a short time after signing the pardon, this is true truth,

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Speaker 1: social Posts, Congressman Henry Quair announced that he will be

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Speaker 1: running for Congress again. He put running in quotes in

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Speaker 1: the great state of Texas parenthesesis state where I receive

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Speaker 1: the highest number of votes ever recorded. He loves to

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Speaker 1: throw these sort of sort of statistics that are kind

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Speaker 1: of meaningless pretty much because our population always grows, particularly

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Speaker 1: in the Sun Belt. Whoever wins these states each time

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Speaker 1: is getting the most number of votes that anybody's ever gotten.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, but I digress.

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Speaker 1: He's complaining that Quaer file for office as a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: continuing to work with the same radical left scum that

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Speaker 1: just weeks before wanted him and his wife to spend

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Speaker 1: the rest of their lives in prison. Such a lack

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Speaker 1: of loyalty. Loyalty is in all caps, something that Texas

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Speaker 1: voters and Henry's daughters will not like. Oh well, next time,

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Speaker 1: no more, mister nice guy. I never spoke to the

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Speaker 1: congressman and his wife or his daughters, but felt very

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Speaker 1: good about fighting for a family that was tormented by

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Speaker 1: very sick and to arrange people they were treated so badly.

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Speaker 2: So I don't.

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Speaker 1: This is clear to me that there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: reporting that we all need to do on this one.

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Speaker 1: Do we really think there was very little conversation between

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Speaker 1: members of Koar's family and the White House. There was

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Speaker 1: obviously some conversation. The President cited a letter from his daughters.

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Speaker 1: He said he was moved by the letter from his daughters.

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Speaker 1: But Trump, certainly it sounds like thought he was doing

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Speaker 1: this in exchange for something, and he's angry when the

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00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: something that he expected sounds like he expected either quair

437
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: or to switch parties. Filed a run as a Republican

438
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. Right, he did it just before the filing deadline,

439
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're looking for fishy smells here

440
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: that like, okay, is you know, is there something here

441
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: We're not being told right.

442
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: The timing of the.

443
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: Pardon is a tell, right just before the Texas filing deadline,

444
00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: and then he lashes out after Quaar files as a Democrat. Methinks,

445
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: we don't have all the details of this story, but

446
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: the most important part of this is Trump's public reaction,

447
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: because again we sort of are shrugging our shoulders right

448
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: now collectively about what is happening nearly once a week,

449
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: which is Trump does a major pardon of somebody that

450
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: has no business getting a pardon, but who magically has

451
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: a connection to somebody close to the president former president

452
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: of Honduras, magically is close to Roger Stone right, the

453
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: guy with the crypto binance. He's magically in business with

454
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: the President's sons. And we quay are with somebody. You know,

455
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: this is part of Remember, he is already ordered Texas

456
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: Republicans to do the redistricting business. One of the places

457
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: they think they're going to make up ground is in

458
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: South Texas. He pardons Henry Quayar just days before the

459
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: filing deadline. Quaar decides to stick and run as a Democrat,

460
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: Perhaps looking at the polls and realizing that being a

461
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: Republican at twenty twenty six might not be the best decision,

462
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: even in South Texas.

463
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: Next cycle and Trump goes crazy.

464
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: Let's just say, I think we know that he uses

465
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: the pardon power to try to get what he wants.

466
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: Maybe it's business deals for his kids, maybe it's political support,

467
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: maybe it's something else. Maybe it's just simply to help

468
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: a friend get a payday, whether it's a Paulmanniford or

469
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: Roger Stone or whatever. By the way, it's very funny

470
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: today Roger Stone has other people out there trying to

471
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: claim he didn't.

472
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: He didn't.

473
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: They're not saying he didn't make money off the pardon,

474
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: but he wasn't paid to represent the president. I have

475
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: a feeling we know that there's some specificity in these

476
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: denials in order for them to not look totally crooked

477
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: in all of this. But anyway, I am I am

478
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: just I do not get why there's not more outrage

479
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: about the weekly sales. Weekly go look at this list

480
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: of pardons, and it's it's it's uh. It ain't making

481
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: America great again, that's for sure, but it is making crime.

482
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: Easy again.

483
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: And that especially white collar crime that alarm a lot

484
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: of people. And if you're going to wonder why the

485
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: pitchforks may come out for left and right, you know,

486
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: this is Donald Trump being on the side of the elites,

487
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: being on the side that rip off everyday people. Just

488
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: remember that, Just remember that of those that thought Trump

489
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: was going to be on your side, that he was

490
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: going to go get those elites. Instead he pardons those elites.

491
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: A few things, a few other things before we get

492
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: to the interview with Jared Bernstein. I I am fascinated

493
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: by the sixty minutes interview that Marjorie Taylor Green gave

494
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: on Sunday. I think the quote that is making the

495
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: rounds is fascinating, which let me just read it. I

496
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: watched many of my colleagues go from making fun of him,

497
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: making fun of how he talks, making fun of me

498
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: constantly for supporting him, to when he won the primary

499
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, they all started excuse my language,

500
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: Leslie referring to Leslie Stall kissing his ass, and decided

501
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: to put on a Maga hat for the first time.

502
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, I am convinced that Marjorie Taylor Green

503
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: is coming about all of this, not as some sort

504
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: of act or as some sort of pivot. I think

505
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: this is somebody who was naive to how politics were.

506
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: She owned a jim, she lived in her own world,

507
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: didn't like what she saw, got caught up in the

508
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: Trump movement, maybe believed that he wasn't a bullshitter, believed

509
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: this bullshit is like realizing sort of it, and it's taken.

510
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of a little bit at a time,

511
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: because you know, she doesn't she does. You know, it's

512
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: almost as at first she thought, you know, this is

513
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: where I'm wondering, did she think political theater was the

514
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: way you were supposed to do this? And then she realized,

515
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, she just got the wrong introduction to what

516
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: politics was. She only got the introduction through the prism

517
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: of Trump. But she actually thought these folks believed in something,

518
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: and she's found out the hard way that they don't

519
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: really believe.

520
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: What they say.

521
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: Let's just say I think she's I think she is

522
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: somebody that if she chooses to run for something, like

523
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: I said this before, John as suffer better, should be relieved.

524
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: She's not running for the Senate. But I you know,

525
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: I don't know whether she has this ambition. She may not,

526
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: she may just view this, but maybe you don't do

527
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: a sixty minutes interview if you don't have trying to

528
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: preserve yourself a place in the future somewhere. But what

529
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: if she's the pure, the real MAGA candidate in twenty

530
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: eight primary vance and that becomes the split. Does it

531
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: open the door for a third item too? Anyway, just

532
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: something to think about a few other things that I

533
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: wanted to that I wanted, one other aspect that I

534
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: wanted to get to, and then we'll get to the

535
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: interview with Jed Burnstein. The other story that's sort of

536
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: roiling Washington is the shocking unpopularity of all four congressional

537
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: leaders right now. And we've been in periods like this before.

538
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: After sort of the fall of Jim Wright in the

539
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: late eighties, there was a period between sort of the

540
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: Right speakership and the Gingrit speakership where just felt like

541
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: there was just not a lot of a lot of

542
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: great leadership on Capitol Hill and both parties were going

543
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: through a transition. And then you sort of got, you know,

544
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: you got that's that's when sort of get parting. Gingrid

545
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: stepped in and then they created some stability, and you

546
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: had Mitchell and Dole for a little bit. We went

547
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: through a period I think where when Dashel lost and

548
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: you had like a lot and frist and there was

549
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot of unsteadiness congressional leadership there and sort of

550
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: the mid Ats, and then you got Uh sort of

551
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: some stability again, the rise of Pelosi on the left,

552
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: the rise of Bayner and the right, Mitch McConnell getting

553
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid, and they sort of created

554
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: and now I think we're in another one those right,

555
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: we're sort of the Senate leaders have really not you know,

556
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: McConnell and Read have been replaced, but they but they're

557
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: but neither Schumer nor Thune has the same level of

558
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: credibility that either one of those two leaders had. UH

559
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: and Jeffreys and Johnson clearly don't have the same level

560
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: of credibility that their predecessors had Pelosi or McCarthy. And

561
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm not sure any of these four are going to

562
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: gain it. Right, I think we're going to have to

563
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: go through this cycle, and you're going to see, right,

564
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: if Republicans lose the House, there's going to be a

565
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: new House leader, and I'll be honest, I think it's

566
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: going to be a free for all and that might

567
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: be healthy. They kind of need, you know, they're sort

568
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: of in some ways. Johnson was an outsider, but he

569
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: was an outsider sort of helped by insiders. I think

570
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: if you have a loss of control of the House,

571
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: that maybe you'll have a true ground swell and it'll

572
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: be interesting to see, you know, maybe there's maybe it's

573
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: an institutionalist like Tom Cole who's sort of of a

574
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: transitional figure, kind of the way John Thunne is I

575
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: think right now in center Republicans, but you have House

576
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: Democrats not crazy about you know, Jeffreys really feels very

577
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: uncomfortable in this position right now. I mean, I think

578
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: what's happening with New York City politics has him looking

579
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: over his left shoulder constantly. Chuck Schumer seems to be

580
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: worried about his left shoulder all the time as well.

581
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: He feels like he's kind of lost his touch as

582
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: sort of that electability guy. The point is, it's fascinating

583
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: to see the reason I think you have such anger

584
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill right now. And also I think some unpredictability.

585
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: I think this sort of weak leadership that you have

586
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: right now collectively means that there are more potential free

587
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: agents on issues out there than I think folks realize.

588
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: We'll see what happened.

589
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we've already had a We've already had more

590
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: discharge petitions this House that I've seen in I think

591
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: the previous twenty years, and that you know, the more

592
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 1: discharge petitions you have, the more you have a leader

593
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: that doesn't have control of their own party. So you know,

594
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: if you told me you get some strange bedfellows getting

595
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: together on healthcare subsidies, strange bedfellows getting together on tariff policy,

596
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: I think all of that is possible because you have

597
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: right now Thune, Schumer, Jeffreys, and Johnson do not have.

598
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: You know, they can't rule by fear, right, none of

599
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: them can. I guess Trump can put some fear into

600
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: some of these folks, but I think the fear of

601
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: Trump is starting to fade, as we've seen with Marjorie

602
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: Taylor Green and others. And there isn't a lot of

603
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: respect for the political acumen of the quartet that I've.

604
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: Just talked about.

605
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: So it is I'll just say I feel like I

606
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: haven't seen this kind of collective congressional leader weakness really

607
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: since that sort of period in between Right and Gangridge,

608
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: and then I think the period in between sort of

609
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: the fall of Hastert and delay before sort of Pelosi

610
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,959
Speaker 1: took over, and that whole sort of period of Lot

611
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: and Frist really before McConnell took over. So we're definitely

612
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: in a transition. I will be if you told me

613
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: we have four brand new leaders in January twenty twenty seven,

614
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't fully be surprised, but I definitely expect that

615
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: the four we have today that I think there's a

616
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: good chance none of the four are there by January

617
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty nine. Part of it is, I think

618
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: the shelf life of congressional leader this day is getting

619
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: shorter and shorter, the impatience of political leaders, especially if

620
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: we're electing a different type of member of Congress and

621
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: a different type of senator who are more worried about

622
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: communicating with the base, communicating with the public than they

623
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: are with legislating. And if if we sort of are,

624
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: our Congress gets reoriented to more sort of media savvy

625
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: elected members rather than legislative savy members. It means I

626
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: think we're going to go through us. You know, we

627
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: may cycle through quite a few congressional leaders, because everybody's

628
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: kind of their own political leader and political party at

629
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: this point, right with with with how we're transitioning, particularly

630
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: this new generation of elected officials. And I think that's translated,

631
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: and it probably explains why the leaders themselves know that

632
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: they you know, they don't control the bully pulpit, They

633
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: don't really control the They don't they don't have that

634
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: much ability to prevent donors from giving money to some

635
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: of these folks, you know. The weakness of the political parties,

636
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: the weakness of the congressional leaders, it's all led to it.

637
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: It feels like a bit of instability in Congress right now.

638
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: And like I said, the possibility, I think we have

639
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: some we could see some strange runaway legislative compromises show

640
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: up in the next six months, simply due to this

641
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: week leadership that we're all experiencing. There's a reason results

642
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: matter more than promises, just like there's a reason Morgan

643
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. For the

644
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: last thirty five years, they've recovered twenty five billion dollars

645
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: for more than half a million clients. It includes cases

646
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: where insurance companies offered next to nothing, just hoping to

647
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: get away with paying as little as possible. Morgan and

648
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania,

649
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: one client was awarded twenty six million dollars, which was

650
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: a staggering forty times the amount that the insurance company

651
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: originally offered. That original offer six hundred and fifty thousand

652
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Speaker 1: dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

653
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Speaker 1: So with more than a thousand lawyers across the country,

654
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,480
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655
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: you need a lawyer. You need somebody to get your back.

656
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Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

657
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: Dow Pound Law Pound five two nine law on your

658
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Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same,

659
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: So check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

660
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: unless they win.

661
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: Well. Of course, in promoting my Monday.

662
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: Podcast, I forgot about my favorite segment, which no, it's

663
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: not ranting about the college football playoff. My favorite segment

664
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: every Mondays, of course, it's the podcast time Machine.

665
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: My time Machine actually takes me. It's fascinating.

666
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: This week in dec is the anniversary of two key

667
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: events that triggered two things, the growth of China and

668
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: massive political realignment in the United States.

669
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: So let's go through it.

670
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: We're gonna step in the times that we're traveling through

671
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: three different Decembers nineteen seventy eight, two thousand and one,

672
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: and the December we're living in right now, December twenty

673
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: twenty five. And it's three moments that, when you take

674
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: them all together, tell the story of how the United

675
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: States made a monumental bet on China and how we

676
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: are now quietly admitting that the bet didn't pay off

677
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: the way we expected. And believe it or not, it's

678
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: a story that begins with optimism, it passes through triumpolism,

679
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: and ends with realism and maybe even resignation. Let's start

680
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: in December nineteen seventy eight, this week where Jimmy Carter

681
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: and Dan Chauping announced the normalization of diplomatic relations between

682
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: the United States and the People's Republic of China. The

683
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: formal switch from Taipei to Beijing official on January first

684
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: of that year, but we announced it in this week

685
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: in December nineteen seventy eight. On paper, this was a

686
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: Cold War realignment decision. In practice, it was the moment

687
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: the United States decided it could shape China's future by

688
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: opening the door. But it was not some Kumbaya moment.

689
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: The reactions at the time were all over the political map.

690
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: The Republican realists the kit at that time, it was

691
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: the Kissinger Scowcroft branch of the Republican Party applauded the

692
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: move Kissinger called the normalization quote an historic step toward

693
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: a stable war. This wing of the Republican Party sow

694
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: it as a three dimensional chess play, bring China closer

695
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: to Washington as a way to check Moscow. Meanwhile, the

696
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: Conservative Hawks were furious. Barry Goldwater said Carter had quote

697
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: abandoned a trusted ally in Taiwan with hardly a second thought.

698
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan, who was not yet the nominee for the

699
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: Republican Party but already the ideological leader of this part

700
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: of the conservative movement, accused Carter of quote selling out

701
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: our friends for a theory of diplomacy. Then you had

702
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: the democratic left, especially the human rights advocates Pat Darien,

703
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: Carter's own human rights chief privately warned that the move

704
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: sent a message that quote human rights is negotiable when

705
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: great powers are involved. The Congressional Black Caucus publicly asked

706
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: why human rights were the centerpiece of US policy towards

707
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: Latin America and South Africa, but not Beijing. And then

708
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: there was the business community. How do you think they reacted?

709
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: They were ecstatic, GM, Boeing, and ge all launched internal

710
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: studies immediately. Executive memos from the time read like prospectuses

711
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: for the next gold rush. One Fortune five hundred CEO

712
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: told The Washington Post at that time, China is the

713
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: last great untapped market on Earth. We need to be

714
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: there before the Europeans get there again. This was America

715
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: December nineteen seventy eight, So in nineteen seventy eight you

716
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: can already see the outlines of the emerging coalition foreign

717
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: policy realists plus Wall Street plus x Borders on one side, ideologues,

718
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: human rights AFTRICUS activists and manufacturing workers on the other.

719
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: The beginning of a realignment right normalization wasn't the beginning

720
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: of a debate about China, though, it was the beginning

721
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: of an American consensus about China. And this was the

722
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: consensus that was wrong. We now admit that we were wrong,

723
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: but everybody seemed to believe it at the time, and

724
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: the consensus was that engagement would moderate Beijing, reform its economy,

725
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: and eventually soften its politics. Essentially, democracy would come with

726
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,479
Speaker 1: economic freedom. It's a great theory, and for a while

727
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: it seemed like it could work. Then let's fast forward

728
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: to another December anniversary, twenty three years later. This is

729
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: December eleventh, two thousand and one. China officially joins the

730
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: World Trade Organization. This is probably the biggest hinge moment

731
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: of modern globalization, and it's backed by another wave of

732
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: bipartisan optimism. Bill Clinton, who negotiated the terms in his

733
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: final year in office, had said earlier about China joining

734
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: the WTO. Quote, By joining the WTO, China's agreed to

735
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: play by the same global rules. This is a win

736
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: for America.

737
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: George W.

738
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: Bush, who inherited the process, echoed the thought. He said, quote,

739
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: A China that plays by the rules is a China

740
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: that contributes to stability. So when you hear people talk

741
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: about the UNI Party, it was on topics like this

742
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: that there was kind of a unified theory from the

743
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: center left in the center right on all things China.

744
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: Even Al Gore made the argument on the two thousand

745
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: campaign trail, he said trade with China encourages openess, transparency,

746
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: and reform. Well, in retrospect, what's striking isn't that Democrats

747
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: and Republicans agreed on China in two thousand and one.

748
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: It's how completely they agreed. There was really no there

749
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: wasn't there was no debate about this. This were a

750
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 1: lot of things Bush and Gore agreed upon. Right, it

751
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: was always the funniest election, Like there was a reason

752
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: I always thought that election was he said, actually a

753
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: tie because neither one of them made the case for

754
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: why the other was wrong, because they kind of said, hey,

755
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: I agree with him, so vote for May anyway. But

756
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: there were still some politics over this. The two thousand

757
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: debate over permanent normal Trade relations P and TR was

758
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: a pretty fierce domestic fight during the Clinton years. A

759
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Flcio accused the administration of giving away the future of

760
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: American manufacturing. Pap Ucanan called the WATO vote the greatest

761
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: surrender of American economic sovereignty in our history. So again,

762
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: it's almost like the Sanders wing and the Trump wing right.

763
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, she wasn't speaker at the time. She voted

764
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: against China p and tr Bertie Sanders warned he was

765
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: then just a House member, a socialist, but a House

766
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: member from Vermont. He said, corporate America may profit, but

767
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: American workers will suffer. He wasn't alone, Dick Epart then

768
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: the Congressional Democratic leader Jesse Jackson. Much of the Democratic

769
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: base did oppose it, so did a chunk of the

770
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: Republican populous wing, very much more of the Pap Buchanan crowd.

771
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: But the corporate coalition was overwhelming. Silicon Valley, Wall Street,

772
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: Big agg big retail manufacturers were looking for low cost labor.

773
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: Everybody saw China as an economic accelerate. And here's where

774
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: hindsight is pretty clarifying. We often talked about China Shock,

775
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: the wave of job losses that hit industrial communities into

776
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: two thousands. But what we don't talk about enough is

777
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: how bipartisan this decision was that allowed that shock to happen.

778
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: It was left and right.

779
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: When China joined the WTO the United States entered the

780
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: era of the China Price, the idea that everything steel, electronics, furniture, toys,

781
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: clothing would be cheaper if it came from China. Consumers

782
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: loved it, investors loved it, retailers loved it. But the

783
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: political bill that would come due about a decade later.

784
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: And this is where the two thousand election becomes such

785
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: an important pivot point. I think in this story because

786
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: it's the last time both presidential nominees fully embraced the

787
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: same form policy worldview, George W.

788
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: Bush and Al Gore. They disagreed on taxes.

789
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: On the Social Security lock box, that's the best Al

790
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: Gore I can do in a lock box, and they

791
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: disagreed on a few other things, but on China they

792
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: spoke with the same vocabulary. Bush said during the campaign,

793
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: the best way to encourage freedom in China has engaged China.

794
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: Gore said, we benefit when China follows global rules and trade.

795
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: Both supported normalization, both supported p and tr both supported

796
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: China and the wto.

797
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: Now.

798
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: Bush took a tougher rhetorical line on China, called China

799
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: quote a strategic competitor, not a strategic partner. But that

800
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 1: was tone now policy. Bush backed the same trade approach

801
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: that Clinton did, and Gore paid a political price for

802
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: embracing that consensus. Union leaders told them directly, China P

803
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: and TR was the final betrayal of Clintonism. Midwestern workers

804
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: didn't hear rules based trade system. They simply heard factory

805
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: moving to Guangzhou. The irony is at the political base

806
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: that would later revolt again globalization. The Trump burning populist

807
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: alignment was warning about it in real time, but in

808
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: two thousand neither movement was big enough in either party

809
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: to make either one of them. We had a little

810
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: bit of Nator talking about it as a third party candidate,

811
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: a little bit of Buchanan talking about it as a

812
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: third party candidate, but they got about one or two

813
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: percent total. So when China joined the WTO in December

814
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: twenty one, it wasn't a partisan victory. It was the

815
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 1: last gas, but the uniparty consensus unfeigned policy, the belief

816
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: that engaging China will liberalize China, not transform America. History,

817
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: of course, had other plans.

818
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: So I.

819
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: This is the point of our story where we ought

820
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: to talk about the thought experiment here. What if the

821
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: United States had blocked China's WTO entry? Okay, Well, economists

822
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: who studied the counterfactual say two things. China still probably

823
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: becomes a manufacturing superpower, just more gradually and probably more

824
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: dependent on Europe and Japan. The United States still loses

825
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: industrial jobs because that trend began in the night nineties,

826
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: five years before.

827
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: The WTO extension for China.

828
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: So what probably changes simply paced, not trajectory China twenty ten.

829
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: Factory to the world probably still exists. The political shockwaves

830
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: in places like Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania. Maybe they're softened a little,

831
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: or they're delayed, but they land, and maybe the populist

832
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: backlash arrives in say the midterms of twenty eighteen, rather

833
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: than in twenty ten, or maybe the backlash happens anyway,

834
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: because globalization was going to be bigger than any single vote.

835
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: The point is is that.

836
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: It's probably not clear that anything was going to stop

837
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: the rise of China, which is always the argument the

838
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 1: realists make. So the question was can we shape China?

839
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: So here we are in the present moment. I open

840
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: this podcast talking about the National Security Strategy Memo that

841
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: was just released by this emit stration, and this is

842
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: the first US government document that clearly admits the fifty

843
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: year bet on China didn't work out as expected. It

844
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: does not call for a new Cold War. It does

845
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: not frame China as an ideological enemy. It does not

846
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: talk about containing China or transforming China. Instead, the through

847
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: line of this Trump Security Strategy memo is simple, China's

848
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: a permanent strategic rival. We are not trying to hold

849
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: China back anymore. We are going to try to strengthen

850
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: ourselves and compete with China. The seventy eight bet was

851
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: that opening China will shape China. The two thousand and

852
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: one bet was that integrating China will moderate China. The

853
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five memo now basically says China is now

854
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: fully integrated, fully powerful, fully assertive, and the task is

855
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: now to compete with it, not to change it. Essentially,

856
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: we're surrendering. So you see these themes throughout the document itself.

857
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: Rebuilding the US industrial base, securing supply Chaine in American technology,

858
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: the decoupling, if you will, stabilizing relations without illusions, preparing

859
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: for long term competition. It's not full disengagement. It seems

860
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: to be just simply acceptance, strategic acceptance. The United States

861
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: finally acknowledging the reality shaped by decisions made in those

862
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: two earlier Decembers Carter in nineteen seventy eight, which of

863
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: course was preceded by Nixon going to China right again,

864
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: a bipartisan move, and then China and the wto begun

865
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: by Clinton, executed and finished by Bush. So in seventy eighth,

866
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: the US made a geopolitical bet that engaging China will

867
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: help win the Cold War and encourage reform in Beijing.

868
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: Arguably it might have done that right. We might have

869
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: helping separate China might have made Russia's the Soviets life

870
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: a little more challenging, so that we can't say that

871
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: bet didn't work, since we did win the Cold War

872
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: against the Soviets. But by two thousand and one, the

873
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: United States made an economic bet that integrating China into

874
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: the global trading system would expand global prosperity and lock

875
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: China in to a rules based world where they might

876
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: start to become small d democratic. Well, both bets did

877
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: reshape China, but boy did they reshape the United States.

878
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: They reshaped us economically, politically, and socially. And here we

879
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: are in December of twenty twenty five. The question now

880
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: is not how we are going to change China confront China.

881
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: It is simply, now, how do we compete with China?

882
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: So we helped create China, we helped bring upon this competitor,

883
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: and now we're surrendering and hoping we can just stay

884
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: competitive with the new manufacturing King of a.

885
00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: Hill, China. There's your time machine time Capsule of the week.

886
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,719
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910
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: All right, let me sneak at a few questions before

911
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: I get to college football, ask Chuck, all right. First

912
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: question comes from Shamee H from des Moin. I always says, hey, check,

913
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,439
Speaker 1: congrats and Miami making the CFP head to head should

914
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: always count. I'm curious about the Iowa democrats hesitancy to

915
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: push for first in the nation status again, give them

916
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: the state's accessibility and engaged voters. Wouldn't it make more

917
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: sense for both parties to go along, go all in

918
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: together rather than play it safe. Also, could you someday

919
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: explain how Obama's influence reshaped or damage the dncbond just

920
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 1: backing Hillary, Shane he des moines, Iowa, look it is

921
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: there is this. I don't have a good answer on why. Well,

922
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: I could tell you why the National Democrats don't want

923
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: to be in Iowa. Right, there's first of all, one

924
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: is they don't they they believe the base of the

925
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: party is not there's no parts of the base of

926
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: the party in Iowa.

927
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: You know, Well that's a choice, right, you could choose

928
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: to believe that.

929
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: But there is a sense that Iowa doesn't look like

930
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: what Democratic leaders think the Democratic Party looks like. But

931
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: I would argue that's been part of the problem is

932
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 1: that the Democrats have been looking at organizing their party

933
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: through the through the prism of identity, rather than the

934
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: prism of ideology or policy.

935
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: Or frankly realism.

936
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: Given you know, if I were looking at the problem

937
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: the Demo Credit Party as it's communicating with rural America,

938
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: I'd look around and say, what's the best way to

939
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: do that? When's the last time Democrats did well in

940
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: the industrial Midwest and the agriculture Midwest. Oh, when I

941
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: was first in the nation and a guy that named

942
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 1: Barack Obama who was from the Midwest. Mind you always

943
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: thought that people underestimated the fact that being from the

944
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: Midwest was such an asset to him. You know, it's

945
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: not lost on me that the coastal nominees have been

946
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: have been the losers right right Delaware on the Atlantic coast.

947
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: You know, he won, but then it couldn't survive. Kamala

948
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: Harris coastal, John Kerry coastal, Hillary Clinton identifying as a

949
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: New Yorker coastal, she'd have been better off going to

950
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,479
Speaker 1: Illinois to run for office, which is her original home state.

951
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: So I think the whole coastal elite issue, I think

952
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: is a real issue. You know, you look at Bill

953
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: Clinton deep South Arkansas. You look at Barack Obama right

954
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: in the middle of the country in the Midwest in Illinois.

955
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: Look at a Jimmy Carter deep South Georgia. I don't

956
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: think those things are accidents. You look at a guy

957
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: like Pete Bootaget's getting traction again a Midwesterner.

958
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: So I don't.

959
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: If you don't want to do Iowa because you don't

960
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: like the caucus process. And I do think this is

961
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: a tactical and mechanical critique, if you will, because two

962
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: cycles in a row, the Iowa Democrats couldn't tell us

963
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: who won the Iowa caucases. So I do think that

964
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: was a fair demerit. But just abandoning the Midwest as

965
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: first in the nation, I think it's been a mistake.

966
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: So if you're not going to do Iowa, fine, do Nebraska,

967
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: do Kansas, but pick a small rural state in the Midwest.

968
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: Just if you can't figure that out, you're not going

969
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:53,479
Speaker 1: to be competitive long term for the presidency. I don't

970
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 1: think rural southern voters are the way in. I think

971
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: you begin in the rural Midwest. That's where you're I

972
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: could fully get rejected and asked for your question about

973
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: the DNC. They didn't prop up the DNC at all

974
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: when they first came in. This is yes, you are

975
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: referring to what I think the original sin of Obama

976
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: endorsing Hillary in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, which was

977
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: sort of not realizing that that isn't where half the

978
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: party wanted to go. But when it comes to the

979
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: DNC and the sort of party in general. You know,

980
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: they refused to sort of build the DNC at first.

981
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: They sort of built an alternative to the DNC called

982
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: Organizing for America, you know, and I think it was unfortunately.

983
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: I think he was surrounded by advisers who weren't big

984
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: fans of the DNC, and the DNC in eight was

985
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: quietly helping Hillary, right, she was sort of more of

986
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: the party stalwart. Obama and his team were the outsiders.

987
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: And I think the and I think the belief and

988
00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: the brand of outsider that team Obama wanted to keep

989
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: even while they got to the White House, seemed to

990
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: convince them that they ought to build their own national

991
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: political organization. And they basically what was ofa right, what

992
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: was Obama for America became Organizing for America and it

993
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: was housed within the DNC. But all of the resources,

994
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: all of the efforts went to that it didn't really work.

995
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: It didn't become the powerful political organization to help support

996
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: his agenda, which is what it was pitched as that

997
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: this was going to be the continuation of the Obama

998
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: movement and these people would get engaged when he was

999
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: trying to you know, do big things past, big pieces

1000
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: of legislation, whether it's healthcare, whether it has to do

1001
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: the environment, et cetera. That didn't really work out so well.

1002
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: And then by the time, you know, the problem was

1003
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: the DNC is just a vehicle. They kind of starved

1004
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: that vehicle, and of course starving that vehicle meant very

1005
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: few resources to the states. Well, what happened by twenty

1006
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: They get wiped out of the state legislatures by twenty

1007
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Republicans basically control redistricting for a

1008
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: decade and a half. Only recently have Democrats started to

1009
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: make up ground back in these state legislatures. So I

1010
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: do think that the Obama folks that came into the

1011
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: first term of that Obama White House were determined to

1012
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: build their own political structure, their own organization, sort of

1013
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: push aside the DNC, and it just turned out to

1014
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: be a logistical mistake. Look, the DNC, you make it

1015
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: whatever you are. But this idea they thought they were

1016
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: going to be elected president and be an outsider in

1017
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. Once you've become president, you've become leader

1018
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: of the party. You need to accept that role. And

1019
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: I would argue, for a couple of years. They didn't

1020
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: accept that role. They accept that they were leader of

1021
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: the free world. They accept that they were president of

1022
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: the United States, and they accepted that they were the

1023
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: biggest brand inside the Democratic coalition. But there were a

1024
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: lot of people whispering in Obama's ear that, hey, your

1025
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: brand and coalition's bigger than one party, So don't get

1026
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: too caught up in the DNC politics. And there's certainly

1027
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: some bureaucracy that comes with that. But that's what I

1028
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: mean when I you know, and sort of that attitude

1029
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: just sort of gutted the sort of infrastructure of the

1030
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: Democratic Party, both on the state level and on the

1031
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: national level, and it allowed it to atrophy for a

1032
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: good cycle or two. And it really you know, Hillary

1033
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: Clinton threw more money at it in sixteen, Joe Biden

1034
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: tried to throw more money at it in twenty. But

1035
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: I would argue that the reason it feels like a

1036
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: week link even today goes back to that initial decision

1037
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: in twenty oh nine when the team Obama came in.

1038
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: This big frankly now looks like a landslide compared to

1039
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: presidential elections. The couple we had before, and quite a

1040
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: few that we've had.

1041
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 2: After and they didn't.

1042
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: They didn't decide to build rebuild the Democratic Party in

1043
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: their image. They instead wanted to build their own sort

1044
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: of alternative independent committee in their own image. But by

1045
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: doing that, they starved the party itself of resources. All right,

1046
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: let me sneak in. I give you it was not

1047
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: a long question, but I gave you a couple of

1048
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: long answers there. Next question comes from Patrick from the

1049
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: Hague by way of Hertford, Connecticut. He says, and he says, Chuck,

1050
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: really appreciate the clarity and sharp analysis you bring to

1051
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: every episode.

1052
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 2: It's become my go to listen. Excellent. Hopefully I've got

1053
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: you worried about college football, not too.

1054
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: I've heard people say that Kamala Harris might actually make

1055
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: a stronger Supreme Court justice than president.

1056
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 2: I've been one of those people, and.

1057
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: It got me thinking, if one branch of government could

1058
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: draft a member from another, who would be the best fit,

1059
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: Which current justice would make a great member of Congress?

1060
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: And while plenty of members of Congress move into the

1061
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: executive branch, what about the reverse? And one are Elizabeth

1062
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: Warren's path to elected office. Curious to hear your thoughts.

1063
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a fun exercise of who would be

1064
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: a good you know, I think John Roberts might be

1065
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: a pretty good Senate leader. He seems to be pretty

1066
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: good at sort of dealing with you know, probably a

1067
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: Senate Republican leader, pretty good at dealing with the ideological

1068
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: diversity of the rights, tries to create.

1069
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: A consensus, right if you know.

1070
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: I think I think in some ways you might be

1071
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: better as Senate Republican leader than he is as Chief

1072
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: Justice on that front. But I think he's definitely got

1073
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of that skill set. I think Sonya

1074
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: Sotomayor would be a pretty good party leader. I don't

1075
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: know if she would be a good legislative leader. I

1076
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: think there's a difference, right, but I think she speaks

1077
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: with a lot of clarity, she speaks with a lot

1078
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: of passion, So I think sort of almost as a

1079
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: in that sense, I think you would see that the

1080
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: reason I'll tell you my theory of why I've always

1081
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,479
Speaker 1: thought Kamala Harris won't. Frankly, probably, I think the first

1082
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: dream job, you know, if you talk about you get

1083
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: into politics, what are your dream jobs? I'm gonna vinced

1084
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: her first dream job was not president that it was

1085
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: either attorney general or Supreme Court. Why do I say

1086
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: that because the first office she chose to run for

1087
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: was prosecutor. You know, usually our want to be presidents.

1088
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: They're running, they're trying to fast track their way to Congress.

1089
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: Running for DA in San Francisco is not a fast

1090
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: track to Congress. That wasn't somebody that was her where

1091
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: whose first goal was to get to Washington. Usually my

1092
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: presidential wannabes, their first goal is to kt to Washington. However,

1093
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: Loung it dates right, and that wasn't her first goal,

1094
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: even as she went to school here in DC at

1095
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: Howard Right. So I've always looked at that and wondered,

1096
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: huh I think, and I buy it. I mean, I

1097
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: don't think it's BS. I do think she's animated by

1098
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: the law. I think she's animated by these things. And

1099
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: I think somebody whispered in her ear sometime, you know,

1100
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: when she got talked into it, because look at the

1101
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: next office she runs for it from DA, she runs

1102
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: for attorney general. Right, she doesn't immediately go to US

1103
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: Senate or something like that, and then she gets you know,

1104
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: runs for the Senate seat when it opens up and

1105
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: somebody whispers in her air, you know, you could be

1106
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: the first woman president. And I don't think, look, anybody,

1107
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: any human being, we all have a little bit of ego.

1108
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: Somebody whispers that in your ear and it's plausible. Maybe

1109
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: you don't stop hearing it, right, So that's where I've

1110
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: always come down on that. But look, I think I

1111
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: think James Langford would make a really good you know,

1112
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: if you're looking at like, and I'll be honest, I

1113
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: think we need an elected somebody who's run for office

1114
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: before ought to be in the Supreme Court. I think

1115
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: it's terrible that we haven't had anybody. I think you

1116
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: need that diversity of understanding that your rulings are going

1117
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: to play in the campaign trail. Sandra Dee O'Connor, I

1118
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: believe the last Supreme Court justice that ever ran that

1119
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: ever ran for office for anything, she ran for a

1120
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: state Senate seat in Arizona.

1121
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 2: I think that you know, what used to be.

1122
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: Fairly common for elected officials to get appointed to the

1123
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, Bill Clinton, I think with semi serious and

1124
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: putting Mario Cuomo on the Supreme Court, I think I

1125
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: don't I think my guess is Mario Cuomo wish to

1126
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: see had said yes, considering he said no, read for

1127
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: re election and loss, but that would have been interesting.

1128
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: Bruce Babbitt was another one that he wanted to put there.

1129
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: The point is is that there's only so much you

1130
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: understand about how illegal ruling impacts their everyday lives of Americans.

1131
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: I think too many of these justices go from law

1132
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: school to a corporate you know, maybe law firm, maybe

1133
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: a clerkship, a judge's chambers, but they don't sort of

1134
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: interact with people as much. And I think having somebody

1135
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: on that court that has done that, I think would

1136
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: be I'd like more than just one person. But we

1137
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: don't even have one person on that and that's something

1138
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: that I think is missing. But I look at some

1139
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: of these elected officials, like I said, on the conservative

1140
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: side of the I think James Langford would make a

1141
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: fascinating Supreme Court. But I look for I'm looking for

1142
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: people who are intellects with a little bit of personal humility.

1143
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 2: So I want people like Jack.

1144
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: Red, Jim Langford, right, people like that, not the loud mouse.

1145
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: If you will, like you wouldn't, I don't think I

1146
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: think Ted Cruz intellectually would be interesting on the Supreme Court,

1147
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: but I think he would feel I think he would

1148
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: hate the job because of his inability to speak out right.

1149
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 2: I think that used to bother Scilly a little bit.

1150
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 2: I think he wanted to speak out more.

1151
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: I think it bothers so to my oar, she strikes

1152
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: me as somebody that would love to be speaking out more,

1153
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: but feels that the pageantry of the office itself doesn't

1154
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: call for it. I'd love to do a little bit

1155
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: more on your question down the road. Maybe you can

1156
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: come back with me with a few more of the

1157
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: fantasy sort of fantasy football politics.

1158
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 2: Questions like that. All right, one last question and then

1159
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: we'll get to my college football round up.

1160
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: Long time listening here in your podcast always reminds me

1161
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: of how much I enjoyed political science classes well great.

1162
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: In New Jersey, the party controlled county line was eliminated

1163
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four after a lawsuit by now Senator

1164
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: Andy Kim, aiming to reduce the influence of party bosses

1165
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: given the lack of an open Democratic primary in twenty

1166
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: twenty four, do you think this could mark the beginning

1167
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: of a broader shift towards fair less party driven primary

1168
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: voting ghost Scarlet Knights. John Feldman, Well, John, I have

1169
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 1: a conversation coming up here with the a gentleman named

1170
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: Nick Troiano. It's not this episode's coming up in the

1171
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: next couple of episodes, and he's working on essentially get

1172
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: he believes. He wrote a book called The Primary Problem,

1173
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: and he believes that partisan primaries are at the root

1174
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: or the root cause of our polarization. They're the root

1175
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: cause of our inability for Congress to get anything done.

1176
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: And then if we can eliminate the partisan primary in general,

1177
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: forget this county line business and all this stuff, we

1178
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: would be in better shape.

1179
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 2: I could.

1180
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: I am very empathetic to this. I would love to

1181
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: get rid of partisan primaries. I would like all party primaries.

1182
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to see that now I want to see.

1183
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: I think parties should still identify themselves. But I think

1184
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: I think it's weird that the taxpayers pay for an

1185
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: election that the only way I can participate in that

1186
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 1: election in a certain in some states is to join

1187
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: some private organization that to me strikes me as a

1188
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 1: poll tax and a violation of equal protection. I'd like

1189
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: to see some better lawyering. If you will on some

1190
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: of these issues when it comes to ballot access and

1191
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 1: these partisan primaries. But you know, given I do think

1192
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: we're headed in that direction, and I think part of

1193
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 1: it is because millennials and gen z do not like

1194
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: these old institutions that are called the Republican Party and

1195
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. And so the more those two sort

1196
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 1: of carcasses, if you will, semi dead carcasses on the

1197
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 1: side of the road, the donkey and the elephant there,

1198
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: the more they fight these changes to the process, I think,

1199
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: the more you'll see growing support to sort of blow

1200
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,839
Speaker 1: up the party, the power of the political parties wherever,

1201
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: wherever it still exists, like Allah, New Jersey. All right,

1202
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: so that's let's talk some college football. Look, Miaey got it.

1203
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: I think Miami deserved to be in. But this entire

1204
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: process was a mess. There's no doubt that there is

1205
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: there is there.

1206
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 2: It is not clear what this.

1207
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: This whole committee is so subjective. The ridiculous TV show

1208
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 1: they put on every week, which is which creates content.

1209
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: You know, I'm in the content creation business myself. It's

1210
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: created plenty of content for me to be and moan about, right,

1211
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: but it misled a lot of schools that misled a

1212
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: lot of coaches, and there's some anger there. I saw

1213
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 1: that the athletic director of Notre Dame is really angry.

1214
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: They've decided not to be in a bowl game over this.

1215
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: I wonder if cooler heads will prevail after they get

1216
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: an night's sleep.

1217
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 2: But we'll see.

1218
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: I'm tapping on Sunday evening, so that's why I say

1219
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: a night's sleep. If you tell me Notre Dame changes,

1220
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: it's mine in the next twenty four hours. It wouldn't

1221
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: surprise me, because remember, Notre name gets to keep all

1222
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: that bowl money themselves. Are they really going to leave

1223
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: a couple million dollars on the table, even though you

1224
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: know a couple million pop tarts, right is what they'd

1225
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: be leaving on the table, because I guess it would

1226
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: have been Notre Dame in BYU and.

1227
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: The pop tarts bawl.

1228
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: So I'll be you know, every dollar counts, right, every

1229
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: dollar matters. I know that's a wealthy school, but when

1230
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: this day's of nil. Everybody's cash poor these days, so

1231
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: cooler heads could prevail there. But I understand their frustration.

1232
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: They were led to believe that that their metrics. You know,

1233
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: they were going to be kept ahead of Miami, but

1234
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: this consistently. The real outrage is how it's the bias

1235
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: that ESPN and this committee has with the SEC. Now,

1236
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: my brother in law, who's a big SEC fan, will say,

1237
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: it's not a bias. The SEC is the best. They

1238
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: should have an advantage, should be able to call the shots.

1239
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that the SEC is going to

1240
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: have more teams in the College Football Playoff this year

1241
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 1: than the Big Ten or the AEC of the Big twelve.

1242
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: The problem is sort of this idea that a conference

1243
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 1: game in the SEC is hard, but a conference game.

1244
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 2: Anywhere else isn't.

1245
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,679
Speaker 1: It's the sort of those lines of arrogance that trigger

1246
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: me on this conversation. Right, Oh my god, Alabama toughening

1247
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: it out in the Iron Bowl to a five and

1248
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: seven Auburn team. Well, Miami had to go to a

1249
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: thirty five year old, thirty five thirty five degree weather

1250
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh, something that's always very difficult for Miami. They

1251
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: go up there and open the can of you know

1252
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: what on the pitt Panthers. The point is and wherever

1253
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: Miami goes on the road in the ACC when they

1254
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: beat Miami they storm the field. The point being is

1255
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: every conference road game for a big brand is difficult, Right,

1256
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: It was difficult when Notre Dame went to Louisville and

1257
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 1: Louisville beats them, and they storm the field for that, Right,

1258
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 1: That same thing happens Alabama, right when they lose to

1259
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: one of their you know, to a Missouri or anybody

1260
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: other than really Georgia or LSU, there's a storming of

1261
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: the field, right. You know, you're to me, there's too

1262
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: much storming of the field. You know, you should preserve

1263
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: storming of the field for two things, winning a title

1264
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: and knocking off number one. Period, Like, we should have

1265
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: a rule we will not find you if you storm

1266
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:25,799
Speaker 1: the court or the field when you knock.

1267
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 2: Off number one in your home.

1268
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: Other than that, there's no more storming of the courts.

1269
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen, you know, when Miami was in

1270
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: its low period in the ACC, there would still be

1271
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: these like storming of the fields and like you know,

1272
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: Raleigh or Blacksburg or you know, like, oh.

1273
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 2: We beat Miami. It's like, come on, we were down

1274
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 2: at the time.

1275
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 1: It's notable that every single team that lost a conference

1276
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: championship game dropped in the rankings except one Alabama. What

1277
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: I don't get is Alabama played eight quarters of football

1278
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: against Georgia. They played well for the first quarter and

1279
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: a half of the first game, and then they survived

1280
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: that game and were able to eke out a win,

1281
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 1: and then they got pummeled and the next time they

1282
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: played them. To me, you got to look at all

1283
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 1: eight quarters. There was a pattern there, right. They figured

1284
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: it out, you know, they as soon as they figured

1285
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: out Alabama's game plan, they shut them down. And how

1286
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: did Alabama pivot the next time they played Georgia? They didn't,

1287
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: and they and then they lose two of their last four.

1288
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: They accumulated a third loss. And I'm sorry, I don't

1289
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: see it as punishment that getting into the conference championship

1290
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: game and then losing. First of all, Alabama had one

1291
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: had an easy way to get into the playoff winning

1292
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: get in.

1293
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 2: That was not an option for Notre Dame. That was

1294
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 2: not an option for Miami.

1295
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: We can talk to the ACC and their ridiculous tiebreaker situations.

1296
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 2: Now it's for Notre Dame.

1297
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 1: I see that there's some reports that indicates that Notre

1298
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: Dame partisans think that this was the committee sending a

1299
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 1: message to Notre Dame that hey, you're not a member

1300
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: of a conference. And look, I don't think Notre dames

1301
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: wins over Navy and Pitt should count as much as

1302
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: Miami's went over Pitt, simply because Pitt said it wasn't

1303
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: taking that game as seriously against Notre Dame because it

1304
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 1: didn't count. Navy said the same thing, because it didn't count.

1305
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: They were fighting for a potential spot in the AAC

1306
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: Conference Championship game, or don't call me the AAC, the

1307
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:35,919
Speaker 1: American Conference Championship Game. So I do think the resentment

1308
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: of them not being a conference, them not having a

1309
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: face of very tough schedule, was part of this, and

1310
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: at some point they were going to send a message.

1311
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: As much as I think that committee hates the AEC,

1312
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: I think they hate Notre Dame in the special treatment

1313
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 1: that they get more and in fact we end up

1314
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: discovering Notre Dame's Now we got to guarantee going forward

1315
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 1: if they are in the top twelve, no matter what

1316
01:14:57,680 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 1: number they are, but if they're ranked in the top

1317
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 1: twelve in a twelve team playoff, they get into the

1318
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: playoff no matter what. They have to automatically get in.

1319
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: Apparently they signed some memo understanding with the CFP. Are

1320
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: you fing kidding me? They have their own legal side

1321
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: deal to guarantee participation in the College Football Playoff in

1322
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 1: a way that no other.

1323
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:19,799
Speaker 2: Conference has.

1324
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 1: Come on, Notre Dame, come join a conference, Come join

1325
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: the ACC. You'll still dominate, and you literally will get

1326
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: into the College Football Playoff every year. The extra game

1327
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: will help you. You still get to play Stanford every year.

1328
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: It's a conference game. Okay, Yes, you're going to be

1329
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: stuck playing Miami once in a while. That's good, not

1330
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: bad for both schools. The fact of the matter is

1331
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 1: the last time Notre Dame was truly a power was

1332
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 1: when Miami was truly a power. Miami and Notre Dame

1333
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: are good for each other, and they ought to. If

1334
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: I were Notre Dame, I'd embrace that.

1335
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:53,600
Speaker 2: Come on in.

1336
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: Look, I don't love the ACC myself. I think that

1337
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: the leadership here they dodged a bullet.

1338
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 2: Do I think I know that the.

1339
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,879
Speaker 1: The chair of this committee, the temporary chair of this committee,

1340
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 1: the Arkansas d said that the fact that the ACC

1341
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: could have been shut out was not a factor in

1342
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: putting Miami over Notre dame. I think it was an

1343
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 1: intangible I'm not going to be that naive I think they.

1344
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: I think if I were the CFP, i'd be worried

1345
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: about lawsuits. And if you're wondering why the group of

1346
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: five gets this slot and why they've worded it the

1347
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: way they did, why it's top five conference champions that

1348
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: they don't specify which conferences because they don't want an

1349
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: antitrust lawsuit. They don't want a lawsuit coming from the

1350
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 1: non Power five four conferences, and so that's called lawsuit prevention.

1351
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: They're like, no, no, no, no, We'll provide you a

1352
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: path to the playoff, and this is the path that

1353
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: they created. Is there a better way to do this?

1354
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: My god, there's probably seventy five thousand better ways to

1355
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: do this. I could. You know, there's a part of

1356
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 2: me that.

1357
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 1: Says, go to an eighteen playoff, but let the power

1358
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: Let the Power four conferences run their own four team tournaments,

1359
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: Have the group of five have their own the top

1360
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: four champions play. You know, you get one representative there,

1361
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: but it's kind of you play your way in, and

1362
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 1: you know the Power four conferences you play your way in,

1363
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 1: and you just do this as playing your way in.

1364
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: You've got to take the human beings out of this.

1365
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: You've got to take ESPN executives out of this. You've

1366
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: got to take athletic directors out of this. You've got

1367
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: to take conference folks out of this.

1368
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 2: Is it is fraught.

1369
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: There's too much money at stake and lawsuits glory coming,

1370
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:41,839
Speaker 1: and you know it'll come congressional. You're gonna have federal intervention,

1371
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:46,799
Speaker 1: and maybe there should be. But this is this committee

1372
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: as it's structured. Now, you've got to get the human

1373
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 1: element out of this. There is no committee to decide

1374
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: who makes the NFL playoffs. There's no committee who decides

1375
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: who makes the MOB playoffs. There's no committee who decides

1376
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: who makes the NBA layoffs. There's no Yes, there's a

1377
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 1: committee who decides the seating and the last sort of

1378
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 1: couple of teams in a sixty eight soon to be

1379
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: seventy six team thing, if you want to. You know,

1380
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: I'm fine for a committee to decide seating, but I'm

1381
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,600
Speaker 1: not fine for a committee to decide who gets in

1382
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 1: and who gets out.

1383
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 2: I will.

1384
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: I have plenty of complaints about how ESPN is a

1385
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: terrible business partner for the ACC. I still think all

1386
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: of the issues at the ACC, they dodged a bullet here.

1387
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: This would have cost millions of dollars for everybody across

1388
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: the board without getting any piece of the CFP pie.

1389
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: The leadership of the ACEC still needs to be held

1390
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 1: account and university presence in the ACC. Those that are

1391
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 1: serious about spending all this money in football need to

1392
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: have a come to you know what meeting about the

1393
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: leadership of the ACEC. Because this was a debacle. They

1394
01:18:54,880 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: dodged a catastrophe. Okay, thanks to their own the other

1395
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 1: politics that sort of were all over the map with

1396
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 1: this committee, but this was there's so many there's like

1397
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand other ways to do this, and yet they

1398
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 1: chose this way to do this.

1399
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 2: Right. I'd like to see Notre Dame men.

1400
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,840
Speaker 1: I honestly, I think it's Oklahoma that doesn't belong if

1401
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 1: you were to ask me which one of these teams

1402
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,799
Speaker 1: doesn't belong Oklahoma. But this is because of the stupid

1403
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: Weekly rate rankings show. They came out and after Oklahoma

1404
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: beat Alabama, they did this, But if you looked at

1405
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,719
Speaker 1: Oklahoma's body of work, I don't think you'd have Oklahoma

1406
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 1: in this.

1407
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 2: In this I think they'd have been.

1408
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,560
Speaker 1: Left out certainly, would you know, Yes, they've got the

1409
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: Alabama win. But that Alabama win is I think way overvalued.

1410
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 1: And if you look at Alabama's body of work, it's

1411
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 1: not the most impressive team. And then what do they

1412
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 1: do for Alabama? They hand them the rematch with Oklahoma

1413
01:19:55,880 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: and Norman. I'm sorry, what a ridiculous gift. Now, quickly

1414
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: talk about the bracket. I'm gonna be parochial here and

1415
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: talk about Miami's path.

1416
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:06,799
Speaker 2: Uh, it's.

1417
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: Let's just say Miami's got the Miami. This is the way,

1418
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 1: you know, you talk to old school Miami football players.

1419
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm friends with a few of them, or you know,

1420
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 1: sort of acquaintances with a few of them. Let me

1421
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 1: let me not oversell it. And they would say, hey,

1422
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: if you're gonna, you know, be tested, be tested all

1423
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:29,719
Speaker 1: the way, tested by the best.

1424
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 2: Right.

1425
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: So they started Texas A and M. And if they

1426
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,560
Speaker 1: win that they get to play Ohio State and the

1427
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 1: Cotton Bowl. And if they win that, they likely play

1428
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 1: the winner the winner of Georgia and Ole Miss, with

1429
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 1: the assumption being that Old Miss is going to play

1430
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 1: tu Lane. So in theory, Miami's path to a national

1431
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 1: championship game, which is would be in their home stadium.

1432
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 1: By the way, it's at hard Rock, would be in

1433
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 1: their home stadium. It would begin in College Station with

1434
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: Texas A and M. Then it's Ohio State on December

1435
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: thirty first, then it would be Georgia in the Fiesta Bow.

1436
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 1: Miami is OH for the State of Arizona. So once

1437
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 1: we get there, I'm going to be really skeptical of

1438
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,040
Speaker 1: our chances just because for whatever reason, we're OH. Like

1439
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 1: I said, we're OH for the State of Arizona. But

1440
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 1: the reward if we survive that would be a national

1441
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: title game against either Indian or a Texas Tech. I

1442
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 1: would say this, man, you look at the various paths.

1443
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 1: I think both Ohio State and Georgia are jealous of

1444
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: Indiana and Texas Tech. I think Texas Tech, Boy, did

1445
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: they get a break? I'm not I don't get a look.

1446
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 1: Oregon's got a good record and they're in a good conference.

1447
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:47,719
Speaker 2: I don't buy it. And then they get the easy

1448
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 2: game against James Madison. I think this is one.

1449
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting if but I love Texas Tech. Here

1450
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: I may or may not have taken a future in

1451
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: Texas Tech. I think they are are totally undervalued going

1452
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: through this. But you gotta love the Texas Tech path

1453
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 1: for as tough as the path is for Georgia and

1454
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 1: Ohio State, I think, I mean, even Indiana didn't get

1455
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: the greatest path they have that they are going to

1456
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 1: get Alabama. Although if I'm right about Alabama, then maybe

1457
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: Indiana's getting catching a break. But it is a the

1458
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 1: path for Georgia, Ohio State, yes, Miami, and Texas A

1459
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: and M that feels like the brutal side of this bracket. Indiana,

1460
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: Texas Tech a little a little less where you get

1461
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: sort of a one dimensional Oklahoma team if you end

1462
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 1: up having to play them, An Alabama team that just

1463
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: doesn't strike any fear into anybody, and an Oregon team

1464
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: that does seems a little bit softer.

1465
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 2: It just does.

1466
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't put my finger on it, but

1467
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 1: there's doesn't quite Maybe I'm wrong.

1468
01:22:59,640 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 2: Never mind.

1469
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, one of the stats that blew

1470
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,799
Speaker 1: me away, it's apparently half of the college football playoff

1471
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: teams have some have a coach either leaving, either a

1472
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 1: head coach leaving or coordinator leaving. That's astonishing. That's going

1473
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: to have an impact. So hopefully that's another thing that

1474
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: needs to happen.

1475
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:18,760
Speaker 2: Here. Do they need to fix this calendar.

1476
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: If you will, sort of do what the NFL does,

1477
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 1: try to not allow coaching change, you know, try to

1478
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: create some gap between the playoff and coaching changes, because

1479
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: this is this this part of it is also kind

1480
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: of messy as well, and that's why you got to look.

1481
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 1: I think Miami's not gonna Miami has very few changes

1482
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 1: in their coaching staff, so I feel pretty good about that.

1483
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: I think Texas A and M has very few changes.

1484
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 1: Did it with Georgia, But Ohio State, I think they're

1485
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 1: losing an offensive coordinator to USF ole Miss, you know,

1486
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:50,839
Speaker 1: the ole Miss situation.

1487
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 2: So it's going to be.

1488
01:23:55,479 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 1: After all this drama. I'm excited that that Miami, if

1489
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: they whatever, however far they go, they'll have had to

1490
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: earn it.

1491
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 2: Right. They do not have a soft path.

1492
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 1: To the National title game. But hey, just four more games, guys,

1493
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: four more games. Look, I think Miami will be competitive

1494
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 1: in every game they're in. They will have a chance

1495
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter, will win the game. The real

1496
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: question is what kind of fourth quarter decision making is

1497
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: going to be made by the offensive coordinator Shannon Dawson,

1498
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:30,879
Speaker 1: by the head coach Mario Christopaul, and by the quarterback

1499
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: Carson Beck. If there's a question mark about Miami, it

1500
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 1: is going to be their decision making when a game

1501
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: is on the line, all three of those gentlemen, so

1502
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:44,639
Speaker 1: that they will Miami goes as far as their ability

1503
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: to make key decisions, timely decisions in the fourth quarter.

1504
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to my first trip to College station. Yes,

1505
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: I'm figuring this out. I'm looking forward to it. I've

1506
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 1: been wanting an excuse to get the Bush forty ones

1507
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 1: library as well. So it's a two for a political

1508
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: and sports junkie, right, I get to go see the

1509
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,919
Speaker 1: field that hosts the so called twelfth Man. Sorry Seattle,

1510
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:16,960
Speaker 1: I think Texas, A and m did it first. The

1511
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: Bush forty one library down there is a nice little

1512
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: consolation prize too with our visit. All right, with that,

1513
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,720
Speaker 1: I will continue my little sports updates. I promise you

1514
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 1: we got more college football that'll be fun. I'll start

1515
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 1: to turn my focus to my packers. That could start

1516
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: a knowing some of you, especially if you're Bears fans

1517
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: or Cowboys fans, but we'll see. And I'm weirdly really

1518
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 1: happy about a tiny little trade that the Nats did

1519
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: for a prospect catcher who I think is a really

1520
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 1: good prospect, a guy named Harry Ford. So I might

1521
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:57,599
Speaker 1: even sneak a little bit of a hot stovely into

1522
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: some of these sports updates. So with that, uh, I'll

1523
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: see you in forty eight hours. Thanks for listening, and

1524
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 1: until I upload again, m h m hm