1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: This is Dana Perkins, and you're listening to Bloomberg Switched 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: on the b n F podcast. Today we're going to 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: talk about some of the fires in the state of 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: California over the past several months. As I record today, 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: the Glass Fire is burning in the Napa Valley and 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: is less than ten percent contained after several days. Air 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: quality is poor, and friends and family of mine have 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: sent me photos of days that look like a never 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: ending night with eerily dark red skies. Growing up in California, 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: I always knew about fire season. They did happen on 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: occasion in various parts of the state. But this frequency, 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: this intensity, just the sheer scale is like nothing we've 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: seen before, and for me, it's nothing short of completely heartbreaking. 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: So what does fire season mean for utilities in California? 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: Sparking electrical lines are just one of many causes of 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: the fires in the state over the past several years, 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: accompanied by lightning storms and even a smoke bomb from 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: a gender reveal party. And what about the blackouts? How 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: is that related? As well as distributed generation and storage 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: from the state that's been quick to adopt solar power. 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: Today I speak with Logan Goldie Scott, he is head 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: of Clean Energy Research at BNF, and Yoi Zechine, who's 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: head of our decentralized energy team. During the podcast, Yayoi 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: refers to two bienn F research notes if you'd like 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: to find them. One is titled Pandemics and Power Networks 26 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: and the other is titled Policy Responses to California Wildfires. 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: They can be accessed at b enof Go on the 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal at BNF dot com or via BENFS mobile app. 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: And as always please note B and EF does not 30 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: provide investment or strategy advice, and we have a more 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: complete disclaimer at the end of the show. Let's dive 32 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: in Logan Yea, Yoi, thank you so much for joining 33 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: today on switch don great to be here, thank you 34 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: for having Let's start with explaining what fire season is 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: in California. So, Logan, you been out there for a 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: couple of years now, why don't you give us the 37 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: lay of the land in terms of how you understand 38 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: what is fire season? So across California, there's there's clearly 39 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: the risk of fires throughout the year because of the 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: avatively dry climate. Typically we think about this as fire 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: season is kicking off in September October, whereafter long hot 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: summers you end up being more susceptible to these dry winds. 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: It's sort of shoot across the states. Now. I can 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: definitely attest to very dry summers. I grew up in 45 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: Nava and we had our wedding there, and I remember 46 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: my husband asking me at the time, well, what do 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: we do if it rains. Our wedding was in July, 48 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: and I was like, I promise you it will not rain. 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: And he's like, no, but what if it rains? And 50 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, I promise you it will not rain. And 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: so I can attest that these are extremely dry summers. 52 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: But what is the difference I guess this year with 53 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: what's happening in this particular fire season versus other years. 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: I think a key difference has been just in their timing. 55 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: When we were writing about this last year, we were 56 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of really thinking about this in September October. Where 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: it's here in twenty is just come come much earlier. 58 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: And also there's is ten timing, and there's a magnitude question. 59 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: So even as someone who's relatively distant from the fires 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: living here in San Francisco, it's it's been a really unpleasant, 61 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: um and upsetting last few weeks to be in California. 62 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: The air Quality Index, so that's a measure that run 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: from nought to five hundred, where sort of below fifty 64 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: is healthy. It's been in the low hundreds for a 65 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: couple of weeks now over San Francisco, and over the 66 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: last couple of years there have been a lot of 67 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: concerns around not only loss of property, people's homes, communities, 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: and then also lots of life. So these are really 69 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: devastating to the community. Can you talk a little bit 70 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: about what caused this year's and also what have caused 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: the ones in recent years, because this has been a 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: series of fires that have taken place, indeed, and really 73 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: you're you're thinking about sort of sparks, anything that can 74 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: that can sort of light light dist i dry vegetation. 75 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: In the past, we've seen electrical infrastructure has has causes, 76 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: no doubt. We'll sort of talk about this in more 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: detail later, but then you've also more recently in this year, 78 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: it's been it's been lightning strikes in many cases where 79 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: where sort of these storms have come through and lightning 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: has ended up ended up sparking it and and you 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: have just seen there. There were Again, it felt slightly 82 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: different to previous years where we weren't talking about one 83 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: or two sort of semi contained or or uncontained fires. 84 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: There were hundreds, to the point where cal Fire actually 85 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: had to sort of updated naming convention for to identify 86 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: each of the fires. There were just too many to 87 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: easily keep jack of it. So for those who have 88 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: actually haven't seen videos of their online, take a look. 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: Because these are dry lightning storms with you know, just 90 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: hundreds of lightning strikes over periods of time. It's absolutely 91 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: incredible to see and can be really devastating. So let's 92 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: talk about the part that we here at be NF 93 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: right about know about, which is how this interacts with 94 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: the grid, and then this other level of complexity that's 95 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: been involved with it, which are at the blackouts. So 96 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: why are the blackouts happening? There's kind of two dynamics 97 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: related to fires and blackouts. One which is what we 98 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: saw last year and we're probably going to see more 99 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: of it this year, which is essentially utilities shutting off 100 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: parts of the grid that are more susceptible to wildfires. 101 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: So what you want to do there is de energy 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: is the grid because the winds are blowing too strongly 103 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: and any kind of risk of a spark can rapidly 104 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: spread any fire in that specific place. That's what Pjenny 105 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: did last year that they shut off power for and 106 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: that was kind of the October so the later in 107 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: the season approach in which they were shutting off millions 108 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: of customers and essentially avoiding or trying to avoid any 109 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: in types of wildfire risk. So that's kind of number one. 110 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: The other one, which which is less directly related to 111 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: wild powers but certainly related to power system management, related 112 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: to California and the California so so that the transmission 113 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: system operator looking for ways to ensure that there's enough 114 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: capacity to meet the system grids needs. But essentially like 115 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: if there's not enough power to meet the peak demand 116 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: during the really hot days of the kind of the 117 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: heat wave, so a hundred plus fahrenheit thirty five plus 118 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: degree celsius, then what they do or what they did 119 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: was look for demand for the demand side resources to 120 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: essentially shut off and ensure that there's enough power. And 121 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: initially in that first week they were looking, they were 122 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: essentially rolling out blackouts in specific parts of the grids 123 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: to manually do that. So heat records have been broken. 124 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: Fire records have been broken, the heat and its connection 125 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: to the grid. So this is as a result of 126 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: air conditioning. And how has the power use and the 127 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: air conditioning use. I guess it's a part of it. 128 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: How has that changed in this COVID nineteen world where 129 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: your workforce is largely distributed now? So just taking a 130 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: step back to build on, to build on Dioa's point, um, 131 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: and to sort of give a bit of context, they're 132 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: around around the power altitudes this year, so I mean 133 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: between August fourteenth and August we had emergency power conservation efforts, 134 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: rolling power shut offs, and in some pretty funky sort 135 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: of pricing dynamics in the market. Um. And I was 136 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: reading an article yesterday from former Commissioners ll La Fleur 137 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: who described it quite nicely in terms of like what 138 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: cause this, which is a question on really everyone's mind. 139 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: And she described it by saying, the situation is like 140 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: the raw Shack test on which people superimpose their preconceptions 141 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: about energy, and so people who always thought renewable energy 142 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: was unreliable blamed sort of you use that to account 143 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: for the outages. People who had a sort of a 144 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: magic bullets or sort of potential solutions in mind or 145 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: single solutions in mind, sort of that to the four. 146 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: So I don't want to fall into that trap since 147 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: it's it's not really around a van placing blame. But 148 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: clearly one sort of salium point is that California has 149 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: retired nine gig lots of gas over the last last 150 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: five years. Another five gig wats is due to come 151 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: offline over the next five years, and this capacity just 152 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: needs to be replaced by something in that that sort 153 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: of hasn't happened to to the extent possible. So when 154 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: you get these sort of slightly extreme extreme conditions in 155 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: this uncertainty, it just becomes sort of harder for folks 156 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: to to manage. So that's that's a background then actually 157 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: to to to answer your question around sort of COVID 158 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: nineteen and the sort of pandemic and how that's changed 159 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: all of our behavior over the last last few few months, 160 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: where in San Francisco we've been in lockdown since March. 161 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: Also with that without any real meaningful sort of easing, 162 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: this has I think it's impact of the way you 163 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: operate to maintain greats um so the reductions in demand 164 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: because people were no longer going into the office, they 165 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: were already exacerbating system operations across many markets, but including 166 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: here in California. So offerability issues include high curtailment, high voltages, 167 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: low inertia, and what we began to see is more 168 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: interventions by control them operators and operators sort of relying 169 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: more more heavily on some of these sort of answery services. 170 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: So I guess the point there is life was already 171 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: hard before you through in scorching heats and lightning strikes. 172 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: And then the other piece is less around operations but 173 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: more around networks, where utilities throughout COVID nineteen have often 174 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: prioritized work and needed to ensure the reliability of the 175 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: power system, which makes perfect sense, but it creates a 176 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: backlog in general maintenance. And in California there's this this 177 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: setup where, like most decisions involved trader in California, because 178 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: of climate change, because of the circumstances we find ourselves in, 179 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: you don't have as much ability to make those trade offs. 180 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: Um maintenance is incredibly important that that that sort of 181 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: hasn't played a major role so far, but it's it's 182 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: just another another complication and other sort of consideration for 183 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: the system operators, for owners of network assets, and ultimately 184 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: for for people who live in California. I think that's 185 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: a great point regarding how network operators and the utilities 186 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: are have had to adjust. They're the way in which 187 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: they maintained the network over the last few months, especially 188 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: as COVID hits and everyone went into into lockdown back 189 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: in March, and then figuring out how do you do 190 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: spring maintenance? UM, can you push that out or can 191 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: you can you pick that up later in the year. 192 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: So there's a really great note that the team has 193 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: written UM since it has written looking at the pandemics 194 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: and power network, and that was one of the aspects 195 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: that he was looking at there and at this point 196 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: and one of the things that that we had talked 197 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: about then was Okay, so what happens with maintenance in 198 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: the context of planning ahead of the wildfire season, because 199 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: obviously the utilities are still planning and thinking about how 200 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: to do the network maintenance then UM, and it felt 201 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: like a bit of a question mark, But ultimately utilities 202 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: are have adapted and looked at ways in which to 203 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: manage and maintain the network and prioritizing specific pieces of 204 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: work there. So that's that's certainly been I feel like 205 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: to be a utility at this time is very challenging, 206 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: and I admire them what they're doing there. And would 207 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: you say they're back on track now or is there 208 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: still a pretty massive backlog of what needs to be accomplished. 209 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: That's a good question. Not being as close to their 210 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: maintenance work, I'm sure there was prioritization that was pushed 211 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: out into one anything that wasn't ultimately urgent to do 212 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. Probably a lot of the maintenance stuff 213 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: around wildfire risk would have been prioritized for this year, 214 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: and and I guess who are kind of experiencing that 215 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: it is something that's very important for utilities and end 216 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: up being very much at the forefront of any news stories. 217 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: So in that context that that probably went went on forward, 218 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and the planning around what utilities are doing in general 219 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: to mitigate wild power risk has has continued right throughout 220 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: the summer. So they adjusted to online settings to have 221 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: those discussions. Um, but I guess progress in terms of 222 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: work has continued well, So you're referencing immediate solutions and yeah, 223 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: you you actually referenced also steps that utilities are taking 224 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: to prevent things from happening. So a series of dry 225 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: lightning strikes or something that may be difficult for us 226 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: to practically control in the short term or even in 227 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: the long term. But let's talk about what steps are 228 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: being taken right now and then think about what that 229 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: longer term timeline looks like. So can you elaborate on 230 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: that a little bit. There's really good notes that Helen 231 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: cool publishing the earlier this year round what are the 232 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: policy options regarding like mitigating wildfires. And the way it's 233 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: broken down is like look at different solutions to the problem. 234 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: I kind of like the way it splits into like 235 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: if you think about avoiding wildfires, you're thinking about the 236 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,359 Speaker 1: physical way in which you can try to avoid wildfire. 237 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: So that untails like clearly stuff that we talked about, 238 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: like grid management, So how do you adapt to walk 239 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: our risks, tree trimming, to inspections, general maintenance. And that's 240 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: kind of ongoing work that maybe needs to be ramped 241 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: up over the next few years as we're planning these 242 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: events to be of greater scale. And then the second one, 243 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: which which might be more intuitive might be something like 244 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: undergrounding lines, so making sure that the power grid isn't 245 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: in any way with shape or form actually because of 246 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: these wildfires to begin with, that comes with a lot 247 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: of it's it's expensive to underground the whole network, so 248 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be done for like everywhere in the grid, 249 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: but certainly there's certain places where that could be done. 250 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: It also requires a lot of time to do it, 251 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: so you're talking about not just like planning for year 252 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: next year, but it's probably like Kaids long planning and 253 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: like billions of dollars of investments. And currently there's quite 254 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: very little of the network around Pgenny. It's southern California, 255 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: Edison and as Eugenny is actually undergrounded, so there could 256 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: be a lot of progress done there. So I would 257 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: say like these are kind of the avoid wildfire category. 258 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: On the second category, which is where customers obviously you 259 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: get a lot of discomfort from from wildfires, but sometimes 260 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: you're not directly in the um in the fire line, 261 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: so to speak, but you might be impacted by the outages. 262 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: So what can utilities actually do to avoid the outages? 263 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: So a couple of examples there might be like the 264 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: utility might be more of the forefront of developing like 265 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: um microword projects or microword plans that help a specific 266 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: part of the network be isolated and be able to 267 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: power itself in the events that they have to like 268 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: shut up power in other parts of the grid. That 269 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: would require some changes to to the way regulation is 270 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: structured in California, But that's certainly something that's kind of 271 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: being being explored and being discussed in the context of California. 272 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: The second one, which is also where we did quite 273 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: a bit of work in the context of last year's 274 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: October and outages, is around backup power. So what the 275 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: consumers and customers actually do and what do they want 276 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: to do to ensure that they have reliable power if 277 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: the grid goes down. That's also continually like relevant in 278 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: the context of COVID, because well it's always relevant, But 279 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: in the context of COVID, if a lot of people 280 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: are trying to social distance and you want to be 281 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: sure that you have indicates of say medical equipment, you 282 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: have power to power your medical equipment, you need to 283 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,239 Speaker 1: kind of plan ahead, probably months ahead of any potential 284 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: risk of outages. And so we can talk a little 285 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: bit more about this further for what that looks like. 286 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: They're a mix of technology choices that you might make. 287 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: But what we saw in October last year is a 288 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: lot of people just running to the stores and trying 289 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: to buy like backup generators like small gent it's powered 290 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: either by by diesel, gasoline, or something that's not necessarily clean. 291 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: Whereas there's definitely also been kind of the pushed around 292 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: like solar and storage. Can this actually play a role 293 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: in in providing reliable power and backup during during the 294 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: avout ages? I love that you reference that in the 295 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: purchasing of these backup generators as a way to ensure 296 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: consistent supply of energy. What role does solar play in 297 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: all of this, given that this is a state that 298 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: has really adapted solar. But one of the things that 299 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know until fairly recently is if you set 300 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: up your own solar and on your house, that actually 301 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: gets shut off when the grid gets shut off as well, 302 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and how does that interact with the rest of the 303 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, distributed grid. At the moment, there is this 304 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: tendency to approve short term fixes that don't align with 305 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: California's long terms to decomganization agenda in solar. Solar fits 306 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: into this quite importantly, So I think we need to 307 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: move beyond emergency based procurements and actually think about really 308 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: any investments today this year, next year in the context 309 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: of California's SP one hundred, so the net zero target 310 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: by and that probably rules out procurements that we've seen 311 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks where pg N just sourced 312 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: or just got approval for a hundred seventeen million dollars 313 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: for diesel generators for five resilions for fourty megal words 314 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: of capacity or so last week or potentially earlier this week, 315 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: the California Water Board just extended licenses to operate four 316 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: gas plants in California. Twenty three are the latest that 317 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: would due to shut down for various other reasons. So 318 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: these are completely understandable decisions if you look at them 319 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: in isolation and if you sort of account for the urgency, 320 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: but they end up being a missed opportunity, and the 321 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: opportunity is sort of redirecting this money and future investments 322 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: into cleaner, reliable options. Um So you mentioned solar that 323 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: sort of shut shuts off automatically. We did see if 324 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: you have solo paired with behind the meter storage. That 325 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: is an option, but many people across California can still 326 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: not afford to afford that. There hasn't yet been the 327 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: the same push and support from the state to sort 328 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: of bridge that economic gap. You saw a lot of 329 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: this in terms of the million solo households I was 330 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: going to call around as one hundred yesterday, wherever a 331 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: few advocating for the equivalent for behind the meter storage 332 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: and and and then sort of similarly micro grids. They 333 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: don't dispute that many micro grids built around alternatives to 334 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: diesel to end up being more sort of more expensive 335 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: at the moment. If we invest in those, then it aligns. 336 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: Then then that investment is sort of locked in, and 337 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: it aligned with a long term, long term goal as 338 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: if we continue to make one of procurements for fossil 339 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: fuels to sort of manage this problem, then in in 340 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: the long term this will end up being more expensive 341 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: from a sort of energy perspective, and and also from 342 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: that's before you take into account any of the sort 343 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: of air quality and associated health costs. I definitely appreciate 344 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: the view on long term fixes investment, but let's talk 345 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: a little bit about your reference before, how it's a 346 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: tough place in time for a utility and pg n 347 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: E specific as and electric in California they recently fund 348 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: for bankruptcy, Where did that currently stand, what options exist 349 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: for them? Puny so California is the largest utility. They 350 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: emerged from bankruptcy in in June of this year. They'd 351 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: restructured these sort of upper upper level levels of the company, 352 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: having sowed bankruptcy protection back into the January nine. As 353 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: part of the agreement throughout that process has been to 354 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: put a few billion dollars in cash and then I 355 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: think amount of fifth of it's of its stock into 356 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: a trust for victims or wildfire is caused by the 357 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: utilities equipment. When we looked at this in in January 358 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: of this year, we also reviewed a few different options 359 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: for Puny, including whether you would have state ownership, whether 360 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: you'd have a sort of a break cup of the 361 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: company in favor of sort of municipal municipal ownership. There 362 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: are lots of tradeoffs involved that we sort of doc 363 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: document in the note, but actually that that has not 364 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: sort of transpired so far. There were many organizations who 365 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: wanted a piece of p Jurney, But so far the 366 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: company sort of remains intact um and is is trying 367 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: to put the bankruptcy behind it. Yeah, YOI. You are 368 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: focused specifically on distributed energy. So when we talked a 369 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: little bit earlier about solar and the role that it 370 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: could play, is a part of the solution, and also 371 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: stationary storage and also these backup generators and other solutions. 372 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: Could you elaborate on some of the pros and cons 373 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: and your view of how solar and the rest of 374 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: this looks. People who have solar and then their solar 375 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: gets disconnected and it's useless when the grid goes down, 376 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: which was Yes, that does happen, and it's it's intentional. 377 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: It has to happen because the grid gets to the 378 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: energized and if mine workers go in to work on 379 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: the grid, you don't want things like customers exporting power 380 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: to the grid and maybe putting them at risk. So 381 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: there's a specific reason why that happens. But the other 382 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: the flip side is actually can add batteries and you 383 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: can add specific inverters that help you power your home 384 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: even in the end of an outage, so solar can 385 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: be not completely useless, but it can be most useful 386 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: if you if you do have batteries. California did allocate 387 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: more funding to the Self Generation Incentive Program, which is 388 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: a subsidy, a subsidy targeting mostly behind the meter batteries 389 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: in the States, and the May allocation was specifically also 390 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: targeting locations that were more prone to being like shut 391 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: off during the wildfire season, as well as people who 392 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: had like less financial access to purchasing this. But what 393 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: happens is like when you allocate a bigger portion of 394 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: the funds to subsidize even more each each system that's 395 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: been deployed, you actually subsidize less systems um So that's 396 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: kind of one of the challenges with trying to find 397 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: the right way to to finance these mechanisms. Potentially like 398 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: a micro grid or like having a big battery in 399 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: a specific location. In the grid of a big battery 400 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: and the solar system, you can power multiple homes as 401 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: opposed to just powering like maybe ten or hundred homes 402 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: in a specific part of the network. So Logan you've 403 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: laid out your view of what some of the ways 404 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: that you see a way out of this, at least 405 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: in terms of like what solutions and steps need to 406 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: be taken. YEA, what do you see and what are 407 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: your recommendation. I think it's worth highlighting just the role 408 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: that demands side resources can provide in terms of flexibility 409 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: to managing the grid and managing the power system in general. 410 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: Obviously that that is a big group of technologies. It 411 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: can be something it can be as simple as like 412 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: demand response or reducing load during peak times, as complex 413 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: as adding or as expensive as add adding solar and batteries, UM. 414 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: But there's there's definitely something to be said about the 415 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: lack of coordination and probably lack of penetration and relevance 416 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: today of these these resources, in particular not so much 417 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: demand response, but in particular solar and batteries, and partly 418 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: that's related to penetration. So you think in California there's 419 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: maybe about twenty five thousand residential batteries compared to more 420 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: than a million residential solar systems. So in terms of 421 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: usefulness today it's still a small portion of total capacity UM. 422 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: But in terms of additional additional solutions, like to speak 423 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: to kind of what Logan was saying as well, it's 424 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: if you're thinking about the whole mix of what you 425 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: could contract. Batteries is something that you can deploy in 426 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: a very short period of time, maybe multic longer if 427 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: it's customer cided, but utility scale battery which was previously 428 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: used as a solution in kind of a in the 429 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: Lisle Canyon. There's a whole story around that, but they 430 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: managed to deploy batteries in a period of like six months. Um, 431 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: that's something that could be like put in the bucket 432 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: of emergency solutions. But again it goes back to California, 433 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: So would not be just not be thinking just about 434 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: emergency to be thinking about one term planning if I 435 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: can just sort of say so to one one final 436 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: thing like that. In the middle of the sort of 437 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: fires where things were still sort of familiar, out of control, 438 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: California's Governor Gavin Newsom said sort of if you don't 439 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: believe in climate change, come to California. That's a sort 440 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: of fairly powerful in terms of sort of recognition of 441 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: the of the issue, but it also sort of poses 442 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: a pretty great big question of or The governor's statement 443 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: leads leads us to to to two points. One is, yes, 444 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: we acknowledge this is happening. This is a problem, and 445 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: that we don't have the sort of appropriate response, and 446 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: you leave California, um and you try and go somewhere 447 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: that is less affected. The alternative is actually trying to 448 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: to stay in California, but to come up with a 449 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: integrated response to the range of problems that are facing 450 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: the state around energy and around fires, and that includes 451 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: all of the sort of technologies that Yahya mentioned and 452 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: just a sort of echo he points it needs to 453 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: be done in an integrated and coordinated way. We cannot 454 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: continue to continue down the path that we are on 455 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: at the moment in California. The carbonization would need to 456 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: accelerate and a redesign or we think of of how 457 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: consumers gain access to electricity in a sort of a 458 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: fair way. Also, it just needs needs needs a lot 459 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: more work from where we are now. Well, so I 460 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: think leaving the state, the entire population of California, one 461 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: of the most populated states in the country, is probably 462 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: not going to be one of the options. So that 463 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: definitely gives us something to chew on in terms of 464 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: things that we need to think about for the future 465 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: and going forward. Today's episode of Switched On was edited 466 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: by Rex Warner. Of gray Stoak Media. Bloomberginia is a 467 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This 468 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: recording does not constitute, nor it should it be construed, 469 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: as investment advice, investment recommendations, or a recommendation as to 470 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: an investment or other strategy. Bloombergin e F should not 471 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: be considered as information sufficient upon which to base an 472 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: investment decision. 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