WEBVTT - The Judas Priest Suicide Trial 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.560 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.360 Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just rocking out 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.479 worshiping Satan here and stuff you should do. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.160 Yes, and I believe there's a CoA at the top here. 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:29.680 Just a trigger warning. This one features you know, content 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.960 featuring drug and alcohol use and suicide, some pretty serious stuff, 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.080 so we just wanted to give listeners a heads up. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:39.080 Also a heads up. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.680 If you want to read a really, really great long form, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.760 in depth article about this. There's an article called The 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.440 Dreamer Deceiver from nineteen ninety from The Village Voice by 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:55.000 Ivan Solataroff. It's amazing, fantastic and like really gets into it. 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.880 So thanks to Dave for this and as well as Ivan. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.120 Yeah for sure. Yeah, And like you said, this is 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.840 kind of a heavy subject, but it's also just totally 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.800 fascinating because it comes from that really bizarre chapter of 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:15.280 American history from essentially the eighties the beginning to the 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:21.720 mid eighties, where there was a segment of the American population, 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:27.560 specifically Christian fundamentalists, who were convinced that Satan was working 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:32.560 as magic through rock and roll music, but specifically they 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:36.000 eventually came to target heavy metal bands, and I mean 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.120 that was a pretty easy target because at the time 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.440 there are plenty of bands who were using satanic imagery 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:47.400 or just looked weird so they must be Satan worshipers 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.360 or something like that. There were bands that definitely encouraged it. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.720 As soon as they figured out that. The more the 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.960 Christian right shouted about how there were Satanists out there, 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.760 that they could sell more records, so they really kind 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:04.680 of into it. So that's kind of where this story begins. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.240 And then the other thing you need to understand what 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.120 we're talking about is something called back masking, and that 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:15.800 is putting essentially hidden messages by that appear when you 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.359 play music backwards. So those two things, the Satanic Panic 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.000 of the early eighties combined with back mask and kind 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.680 of laid the groundwork for what we're talking about today. 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.360 That's right, And if you want to really get a 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.320 background before you listen to this, you can listen to 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.359 our I think one of our best episodes are Satanic 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:41.000 Panic episode that we recorded and also go to a 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.760 bookstore by our book Sure stuff you should know Colon. 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.160 I don't even know what's the name of it. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.400 An incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.360 That's hey, are you looking at edit? Or is that 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:57.040 for memory? 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.959 Right off the top of my dome? As the cool kids. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:01.960 Say, nice work. 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:03.840 You can go out and get that book because we 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.760 have a really really fun chapter on back masking or 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.000 backward masking and. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.280 There and yeah, so go read that, Listen to that. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:13.600 Now read this. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.600 Welcome back, everybody, and we can talk about the Judas 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.640 Priest trial. But first, even before we get to that, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.079 we'll talk about California Bill AB thirty seven to forty one, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.720 the very first bill that said, hey, we should have 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.960 warning labels on records that have backward masking. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.720 Yeah. It was introduced by a California assemblyman named Phil Wyman, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.080 who was an assemblymen for decades, I think two different times, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.880 and he had been contacted by a constituent who'd seen 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:51.720 a show about satanic messages being subliminate, subliminally hidden in 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.600 music on the Trinity Broadcast network and she was very 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.760 upset about this, and Phil Wyman ended up introducing a 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.920 bill based on that phone call. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.480 That's right, and part of this bill said the records 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.240 of many rock groups contain anti Christian and pro satanic 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.520 messages transcribed on them by backward masking. 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.400 And I'll paraphrase the rest, because they basically. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:21.120 Say, like, while you can't, you can only understand it 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.920 basically if it's played backwards. But when it's played forwards, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.080 your brain still subconsciously picks up on this stuff, which 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.880 is ludicrous and pseudoscience. We know this for a fact now. 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.719 But they in this bill, which by the way, didn't 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.400 even get put to a vote, thank goodness, this bill 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.119 literally said like, hey, this stuff, your brain is picking 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.160 up on it. Even though it's playing in the wrong direction. 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.560 Your child's brain is still hearing these messages. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.000 Right and again these are messages about Satan, anti Christian, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.000 pro satanic messages. And the big fear was that not 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:59.960 only would it make kids like drop out a heighth 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.400 school and start drinking beer prematurely, but then they would 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.400 drive them to suicide. That was, you know, and to 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.279 the Christian rights credit, they were deeply concerned about teenage 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.280 suicide and they were seeking a way to easily explain 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.800 it because usually teenage suicide is the convergence of a 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.799 lot of different factors. A lot of times it comes 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.920 from people you would not want to identify as part 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.600 of the problem. So it makes a lot more sense. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.680 And it's a lot easier to just point at heavy 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.520 metal bands and say, you guys are putting messages in 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.600 your music that's causing kids to commit suicide. Right, And 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.520 like you said, there were experts that came and testified 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.760 about this, but the experts with scare quotes, and I 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.279 think you should actually put scare quotes around the scare 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.279 quotes when you write experts when you're talking about these people. 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.720 Because one guy, in particular, William H. Yarrel the second 0:05:55.160 --> 0:06:01.320 was a self taught neuroscientist. That's how he got It's 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.920 it's a I can't say, yeah, okay, this is a 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:05.960 family podcast. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.719 Yeah he's he's self described as a self taught neuroscientist. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.799 He does not have academic credentials that are anything close 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.400 to what he has described himself as. And he has 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.800 a a again in quotes, probably scientific theory about these 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.960 messages that they are they can be decoded by the unconscious, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.360 which already covered if it's hurt enough times. And here 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.240 are the two keys here as far as this is 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.800 going to play out in like a trial situation is 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.400 that he said, once you have decoded this message your 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:43.480 unconscious mind has, then you process it as truth and 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:49.039 that these truths can influence your behavior like suicide and 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.840 drug use and any other anti social behavior you can 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:52.200 think of. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.800 Right, and so again this is total pseudoscience based on 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.520 nothing like facts, but because they're he was a man 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.920 who presented himself as an expert in this, who was 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.480 willing to go testify as an expert, and was saying 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:11.040 these things that backed up the Christian rights beliefs. This 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.320 is how like junk science starts to get a hold 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.680 in culture because in a lot of times people don't 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.480 want to be impolite and tell you how ridiculous what 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.200 you're saying is, and so it ends up like on 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.400 the record, and it just kind of grows from there. 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.560 And this is a really good example of that. 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:29.600 Yeah, for sure. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.280 In the Satanic Pecket Satanic Panic episode, I know, we 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.120 talked about the PMRC, the Parents Music Resource Center, that 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.120 was the group formed in eighty five, not a supergroup 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:48.360 of musicians, but a supergroup of DC political spouses, notably 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.520 Tipper Gore and then wife of James Baker, who was 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.920 Treasury secretary his wife Susan Baker, when they got together 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.720 and said, hey, we need warning labels on music. Expert 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:05.520 profane or sexually explicit, V for violent, DA for drugs 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.640 and alcohol, O for a cult, anti Christian or satanic music. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.400 And this is where we got those very famous hearings 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:17.480 in nineteen eighty five with everyone from Frank Zappa a 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.440 very fired up John Denver testifying. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.920 I watched some of John Denver's testimony today and it's great. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.960 I mean, he is fired up in what he's saying, 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:30.440 but he's also mellow John Denver, Yeah, but he's He 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:35.920 talks about how his song Rocky Mountain High was banned 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.120 in some places or not played in some places because 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.360 it was taken as like a pro drug song, and 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.000 he said it was banned by people who'd obviously never 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.920 been to or seen the Rocky Mountains. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:48.680 Or some good weed. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.640 Yeah, but he he really kind of went to bat 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.640 for against censorship. He said, I'm opposed to censorship in 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:04.080 any form, and especially that's dictated by a self appointed 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.840 group of watchdogs who were telling everybody else what morality is. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.760 He had some really great messages, but in the end, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:19.000 the PMRC prevailed because the warning sticker that parenal advisory 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:25.319 explicit lyrics that essentially helped sell way more records than 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.840 would have sold had that label never been created. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:28.160 Ye. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.079 That came out of that push by the pmr C. 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.160 Yeah, and you know what, I didn't mind it back 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:35.679 then so much. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.600 I think when the pm R PMRC was doing their thing, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.800 I was really young and I didn't understand it. Later, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:46.080 when the parental Advisory label came out, I was kind 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.280 of like, well, who cares. It's fine, Like it's just 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:54.719 a rating and parents need ratings as guidelines. But I 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.679 don't know now that I see how it all went down, 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.840 It's really I don't know how you draw those guidelines 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.800 and what is right and what is wrong? Is is 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.640 really kind of the big question for me. 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.720 Yeah, you know, sure, I mean, as you're essentially providing 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.400 a service for parents who don't want to go to 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.480 the trouble of finding out what lives are doing, you know, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.959 at the expense of free speech. Although to me I 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.559 kind of agree with past you where it's like this 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.960 is this barely qualifies as censorship. No one's saying you 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.640 can't say it. Yeah, there's just a warning on there 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.280 that some things might be offensive to some people. I 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.360 don't know how I feel about it, but it's not. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.560 I'm not as virulently against it as I once was too. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:39.440 Yeah, I think so. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.800 But point being, during those hearings, you had you know, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.120 Frank Zapp and the gang out there, but you also 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:51.240 had a group of again you know, quote expert unquote 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:57.520 people testifying that like, hey, this music will I mean, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.319 there was one guy, Joe Stucy, that said there are 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.960 scientifics studies that prove that rock music warps young people's 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.959 minds and that these subaudible messages can you know, infiltrate 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.120 the unconscious and lead to suicide. They'd talked about all 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.120 these and these are you know, to be sure, sad, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:19.120 sad cases of teenage suicide, but you know, trotting these 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.439 cases out there saying and you know what they were 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.280 listening to Twisted Sister before it all happened and that 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:24.760 kind of thing. 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.719 Yeah. Yeah. So And also if you say that there 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.480 are scientific studies and no one asks you to explain 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.360 what scientific studies you're talking about, that's again how junk 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.240 science gets a foothold in the world. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:39.760 Totally. 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.600 So I say we take a break and come back 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.200 and talk about how this kind of went from Congress 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.840 into the courtroom. Once this this idea took hold, that 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:57.160 that musicians were putting dangerous, harmful, hidden messages in their music. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.040 That's a real pro transition. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.880 All right, So we're back. We promised to get into 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.160 the courtroom, and we are not going to start. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:26.560 With the. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.520 Well, I guess they were both pretty popular trials in 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.559 the media, or at least captured everyone's attention, but one 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.600 trial went decidedly longer than the first. In nineteen eighty five, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.839 Ozzy Osbourne was sued along with CBS Records when their 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.600 son John McCollum these are parents in California, took his 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.840 life after listening to Suicide Solution, the Ozzy Osbourne song. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.200 It was dismissed very key ruling here on First Amendment 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.360 grounds that basically said, hey, music lyrics are free speech 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.120 and it doesn't matter what they say. You can't sue 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.679 someone for writing a song and singing it. Very quickly 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.080 after this, there were two more pending suicide cases that 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:10.840 were scrapped. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.120 But then a couple of years, well, I guess wouldn't 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:14.600 a couple of years. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.199 It was just a few months later, in December of 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:22.040 nineteen eighty five, a very tragic thing happened in Reno, Nevada, 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.360 just outside of Sparks, Nevada. 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.560 So yeah, this is a very sad story. This is 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:33.840 where it gets tragic because there were two boys who 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.960 were best friends. They didn't really like most other people. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.280 They were just as tight as two people could be 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.560 with one another, though, and they loved Judas Priest. Their 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.040 names were Raymond Bellknapp, who was eighteen, and James Vance, 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.720 who was twenty, and everybody called them Ray and Jay 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.840 because they were essentially inseparable. And I think I said 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:59.520 it before, but it bears repeating. They loved Judas Priest. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:01.720 They did. It was their favorite band. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.320 These are guys that, you know, if you sort of 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.480 think about the typical metal heads of the nineteen eighties, 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.640 maybe some anti social behaviors. Like you said, they just 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.480 hung around with each other, hung out in a room, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:20.200 drinking and smoking grass and listening to heavy metal over 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.840 and over and over and reading lyrics and looking at 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.800 the posters and you know, number one fans basically. But 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.680 these were deeply troubled kids who were very unhappy. Raymond 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.600 had had one attempted suicide before and that night they 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.360 made a suicide pack that they were going to in 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.760 their lives. They got a shotgun as sawed off shotgun, 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.800 went to a playground after drinking and smoking pot all 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.880 day and went to a playground behind a Lutheran church, 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:57.080 and Raymond shot and killed himself with a shotgun under 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:57.600 the chin. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.560 Yeah, it's even worse than that though, because, like you said, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.400 it was a suicide packed. So after he witnessed ray 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.840 shoot himself with a shotgun point blank range, jay was like, well, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.000 I guess it's my turn. So he picked up the 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.800 shotgun that was covered in blood and gore and ejected 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.200 the shell, put in another shell, and then put it 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.960 to his own chin. And in that article from the 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:31.840 Village Voice that you cited, the author calculated based on 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.720 the nine to one one call and when the ambulance 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.480 got there, that he probably sat there for a full 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.680 five minutes contemplating whether to do this or not. And 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.600 he said later, because he actually survived this, that it 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.360 was the sound of sirens that essentially hurried him up. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.520 And I guess the gun slipped or he didn't quite 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.040 line it up the way that he had intended to 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.600 or there was just some little part of his head 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.760 that was like I don't want to die. But he 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:04.000 did pull the trigger, but he shot himself under the chin, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:09.600 out at an outward angle, away from himself. So he survived. 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.560 But he also took off like a significant portion of 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:13.480 his lower face. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.400 Yeah, his his chin and mouth and nose. You know, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:23.760 he was he was reconstructed as best possible. If you again, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.440 big trigger warnings here, but if you if you want 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.840 to go look up you know, parts of this trial 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.440 or interviews with this with this kid, you can do that, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:34.840 just you know, do so at your own risk. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.920 So yeah, so Jay survived, Ray died. And it was 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.400 in a letter to Ray's mom that Jay wrote that 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:50.720 he first said he he he identified the Judas Priest 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.960 record they were listening to over and over all day 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.120 while they were getting trashed as something that prompted them 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.800 to to take their lives. And he said, quote, I 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.760 believe that alcohol and heavy metal music such as Judas 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.879 Priest led us or even mesmerized us into believing that 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.080 the answer to life was death. He also was He 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.920 also spoke to a guidance counselor afterward and told her 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.040 that he had heard do It do It in the 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.240 song in the end that they were listening to. And 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.520 the song in particular is better by You Better than Me, 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.879 which is off of the Judas Priest Stained Class album 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.240 from nineteen seventy eight. And there's a lot to talk 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:33.840 about with that. 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:38.919 Song, yeah, there is. It was their fourth record. The 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.480 song is actually a cover song. Maybe ironically it's a 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.439 cover song, and that these weren't even Judas Priest, you know, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.040 words that they had written. And you know, we'll get 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.520 to the duet part, but well, I guess we should 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.280 just go ahead and say that supposedly at the end 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.520 of like three different lines in the chorus right afterward 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.159 you hear do it. And the boys heard this and 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.440 thought that meant to take their lives. There were also 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.439 four other parts that they thought were backmasked. One that 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:15.280 said try suicide backwards, not try suicide backwards, Try suicide. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.600 Suicide is in sing my evil spirit and curse words here, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.960 but I'm going to clean up for the crowd here 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.000 f the Lord f all of you. 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.640 Some more about that song, Chuck. The other thing about it, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:33.399 it's on a Judas Priest album. It's associated with these boys, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.080 suicide and suicide attempt So of course you'd think, like, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.359 this is some dark material that you're talking about, And 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.879 like you said, it's a cover. It was originally written 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.240 by Gary Wright, who was a member at the time 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.360 of Spooky Tooth, who recorded it in nineteen sixty nine. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.679 That same Gary Wright went on to have quite a 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.040 successful solo career with his number two hit dream Weaver 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.840 in nineteen seventy six. That Gary Wright. But it was 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.080 a song. I don't know if it was an anti 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.680 war song. At the very least, it was a look 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:10.800 inside the psyche of a boy at war, a sensibly 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.000 in Vietnam, who was having such a rough time that 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:18.360 he couldn't he couldn't express himself to his girlfriend back home. 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.560 So he was actually talking to his best friend saying, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.600 like you talked to her, You tell her how I'm 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.640 doing because I can't express myself. It's better by you, 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.000 better than me. That's what the song's about. There's no 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:37.240 nothing about suicide in there. There's nothing about taking your 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.159 life or killing other people. It's just kind of like 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.359 a soul bearing song about somebody who's going through the 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.480 horrors of war. It's a good song it is a 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.840 good song, and I really like Judas Priest's version of 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.080 it too. It's like, I like Judas Priest, but I'm 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.240 also like, after a while, everything sounds like Motorhead in 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.600 a certain way. This does not. This sounds like Priest. 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:01.760 You know, it's really yead. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.040 So it doesn't even it doesn't even sound that metal. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.560 Actually no, it's it's almost like do wop? 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.240 Yeah, did you say do wop? 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:12.679 Or do it? 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:17.919 I said wow, See I said do wop? Everybody. I 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.520 definitely did not say do it. 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.600 Do it? Then. 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.480 I hope there are no bloodsucking attorneys listening, because that's 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:27.320 just what happened. This is where the story to me 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.160 gets a little gross because in nineteen eighty six, three 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.920 attorneys headed by a man named Ken McKenna, who was 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.320 quoted at one point of saying, I was born. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.399 To sue people. I guess is the dot dot dot. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:42.960 It sounds like a vanity plate. 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:47.359 It really born number two sue. Yeah. 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:53.080 So they mount a case, file a case rather a 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:57.840 lawsuit against Judas Priest and CBS Records, which and this 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.000 is just sort of a nitpicky thing, but it is 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:06.040 specifically was a product liability lawsuit, meaning the same kind 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.320 of lawsuit you would bring if any other product had 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.560 something that made you sick to your stomach. 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.080 Or something exactly. And in this case, the plaintiffs were 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.600 bringing this as if CBS Records and Judas Priests had 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.480 put out a product that had a harmful flaw to it, 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.439 which was these subliminal messages that had brought harm to 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.760 Ray and Jay, which had caused them to kill himself 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.680 and then attempt to kill himself. So that was essentially 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.800 what they were coming at it with, and they drew 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.600 a judge in Washoe County, where Reno is I think 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.800 the courthouse is in Reno. Judge Jerry Carr Whitehead heard 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.000 this case and in pre trial hearings he heard a 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.400 lot of expert testimony. He heard testimony from a lot 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.000 of junk science, scare quote experts, and he agreed to 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.560 hear the case. There was no jury, it was just him, 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.200 but he allowed the case to come to trial, and 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:07.600 just that was a landmark decision because what he's saying is, 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.840 I think there's enough possibility that what the plainis are 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.959 saying is right that these guys incerted subliminal messages that 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.920 got these kids to take their lives or attempt to 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:24.359 take their life, that I'm willing to hear lawyer's debate 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:25.679 whether it's correct or not. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.040 That's enormous right. 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.520 And that it didn't get bumped because of the ASSI 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:35.119 free speech ruling because they were specifically because they were 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.920 subliminal messages, which to him, setting this president doesn't count 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:44.000 as free speech because there's no dialogue that can happen 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.119 where you can determine if something is correct or true. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:52.440 And on top of that, even subliminal messages were invasion 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:55.480 of a right to privacy because the listener didn't know 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.320 this going into it and had no way of avoiding this. 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:03.200 So mark rulings. Another thing, two things I want to 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:07.280 point out here was part of this. Part of this 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.399 was because these attorneys stepped forward, of course, and they 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:11.919 thought they could make a lot of money. Part of 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:17.600 it was because these parents hated this music. These weren't 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:20.160 like rock and roll parents who were like, oh man, 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.320 I was kind of into that too, but it turned 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.840 my son wrong. These are people like when you see interviews. 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.240 I watched that documentary on YouTube. 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:30.120 It's not very good. 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:31.639 It was sort of from the time though that but 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.960 it showed a lot of the trial and interviews the 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:36.720 mom I believe it was James's mom. 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:36.960 You know. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.399 They asked her like what kind of music she was into, 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.359 and she liked music that her parents were into, so 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.560 people from like the nineteen forties and fifties, she was like, 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.479 you know, like Ry Rogers and the singing nun So 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.720 the idea of Judas Priest being in their household, they 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.240 hated this, so they're angry about that to begin with. 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.280