WEBVTT - Relationship Red Flags with Matthew Hussey 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.520 This podcast should not be used as a substitute for 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:08.559 medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:14.480 independent medical advice, counseling, and or therapy from a healthcare 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:19.959 professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:26.680 or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast. This 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:32.199 episode discusses abuse, which may be triggering to some people. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.400 The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.519 podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.440 not represent the opinions of Red Table Talk productions, iHeartMedia, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.640 or their employees. So if I can be curious, not 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.120 that the next thing I'm going to do is the 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:54.880 next best thing or that it's going to be the 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.800 perfect thing, but if I can just be curious about 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.160 way of living, that's don't mind. Curiosity is the gateway 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.000 to a new belief, and it's much easier to flow 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.440 with curiosity than it is to suddenly go I can 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.000 believe something different. Can you figure out if you're dating 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.360 a narcissist? That question comes up all the time, and 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.920 you are about to find out that it's the wrong question. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.520 After the thousands of videos and content and social media 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.399 posts that talk about the biggest red flags and the 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.400 five signs that you're dating a narcissist. Turns out it 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:36.560 may not be the right approach. Today, we are going 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.360 to hear from one of the best dating and relationships 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:45.120 experts in the business, Matthew Hussey. If you don't know Matthew, 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.240 he is a New York Times best selling author and 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.440 has the number one dating advice channel in the world. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.920 His YouTube videos have been viewed more than four hundred 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:01.600 and seventy million times, and his on reaches more than 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.680 ten million followers weekly. He is also the host of 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:11.680 the podcast Love Life with Matthew Hussey. Today, we're going 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.360 to hear his perspective and belief that by putting all 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:21.120 of your effort into trying to avoid another toxic relationship, 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.600 you may be missing what he believes is the real antidote, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.200 which is focusing on you giving yourself permission to hold 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:36.239 standards for yourself and slowing way down. And we will 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:41.840 also talk about why this is uniquely difficult for survivors 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:46.359 of narcissistic relationships. Matthew's a good friend and it is 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:51.520 a pleasure to welcome him here on navigating narcissism. We're 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:56.680 here with Matthew Hussey. Matthew, welcome. It's so nice to 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.000 have you here. What a great way to kick off 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.000 this second season. And I'm so honored and happy to 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.640 be here. I've done many many kind of podcasts in 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.520 my life, but this is this is a special one 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.440 for me to be able to team up with you. Well, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.080 it's so nice to have you. I thought, I when 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:12.920 I woke up this morning, I thought, ah, I have 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.639 a friend going on today. And these conversations we've had 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.639 in sort of bits and pieces, we've had them, you know, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.120 to your community, but we've never had when that's I 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.680 think all entirely focused on. You know, what I really 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.280 consider is dating in the era of narcissism, where it 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.280 seems to be so ubiquitous. We've talked a lot about 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.320 the back end of these stories, what happens when relationships 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.680 become toxic, what happens to people, But what we don't 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:44.000 talk about is sort of the front end. And so 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.040 that's what I'd love for us to talk about. To 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.080 hear from you, a dating expert who's not only worked 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.320 with thousands of women, and I know a lot of 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.320 women have really been transformed by your advice but what's 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.920 compelling to me is you've also worked with thousands of men. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.720 How are you helping them navigate these waters? There's toxic 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.200 people there, so what do you think is what are 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.480 you telling them is the most efficient way to pick 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.640 out toxic patterns early on when they meet someone new. 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.800 I would almost start with the first principle, which is 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:23.479 that we have to stop trying to become these razor 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:29.480 sharp experts all the time in immediately within minutes or 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.640 hours of knowing someone what their nature is, and actually, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.360 to be honest, kind of maybe a little bit give 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.520 up on that idea. The problem is the moment we 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.680 get arrogant about how great we are at deciding how 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.240 wonderful everyone else is. You know, we love saying about ourselves. 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.880 I'm a wonderful judge of character. I think I'm a 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.320 great judge of character, And man, have I got it 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.480 wrong in my life. When I even take my business, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:02.440 I have made hires that I'm convinced are going to 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.159 be so great. We you know, they in every way 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.960 they seem to pass the checks. The interview is amazing, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.200 and you know, I'm convinced this is going to be great, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.599 and I sell the team on them, you know, And 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.480 that's the hard part. I sell the team on them. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.360 This person is going to be great, and then they 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.560 turn out not to be competent, or they turn out 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:30.520 to have an issue. Once it gets hard, once it 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.480 actually becomes difficult, once the reality of the job sets in, 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.320 it's really humbling for me, how wrong I can be. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:43.000 I always remember those moments. I always remind myself that firstly, 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.040 we don't know even by the way, you know, calling 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:50.240 someone's references is a much better way than this to know. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.080 And it's always shocking to me still, how these days, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.800 how few of us actually do call people's references. But 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.880 even when we call people's references, we rarely get the 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.560 truth from those references. We rarely get the real difficult 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.000 parts of that relationship and why that person may have 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.560 been let go, or why the relationship didn't work out, 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.880 why they're no longer working for that company. And in dating, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.520 we don't even get references. Can you imagine if we did, though? 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.800 Can you imagine if you could call references when you 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.800 were dating someone, Oh what a world. It would be 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.320 extraordinary if you really got an insight. But we don't, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.720 And so we're relying on in the beginning, probably a 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.200 dating profile for a lot of people these days, or 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.960 a first meeting or a first date, and it really 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.240 tells you very little about the relationship, tells you a 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.240 lot about how fun someone is to spend an hour 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.800 or two with, how charming they are, and even certain 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.880 things that we might say are good indicators. You might say, well, 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.200 this person is a great listener, you know, because I 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.960 always think that one kind of caricatured way of look 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.440 a narcissist on a date is that a narcissist is 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:08.000 more worried about being impressive than they are being impressed 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.640 by you. They they want to show you how great 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.760 they are. I always say, narcissists will give you the 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.760 date of your life. You know you you will have 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.640 the most amazing time, and you'll come away screaming about 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.640 how wonderful it was. But that's because they impressed you. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.280 Most likely it's because there's something about them and the 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.960 show they put on that was really exciting. So you 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.280 could say, okay, well, then you really have to say, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.720 who's impressed by me? Who's a good listener, who actually 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.920 asks me questions? And that's certainly a tick. But it's 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.600 also something that people can do when they know how 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.320 to make you like them even more. You know, if 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.520 I'm a good listener and if I ask you lots 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.840 of questions about yourself and I'm engrossed, then I also 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.360 know that that's going to have a big impact on you. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.640 So I think that I guess the punchline is that character, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.160 true character. The kind of character we're looking for is 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.840 the right values over time, and time is what you 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.720 do not have early on when you're making those judgments. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.800 And that's why I almost think we have to let 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.360 go of this idea that we're so raise a sharp 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:20.360 at judging people and instead say, I don't know. I 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.840 haven't heard anyone say it quite that way. And I 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.280 love that idea of We've got to get over this 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.640 idea of us being this expert and great judge of 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.400 character from the jump. For a couple of reasons, I 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.320 can say, as recently as the last few months, the 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.160 mistakes I've made people I let them if I don't know, 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.400 and this is what I do. We aren't and there's 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.160 there's a reason for that where I want to get 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.000 to in a minute. But by putting this onus on 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:48.720 people if you should be able to pick this up. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.720 Because I get that question all the time. Doctor Romany 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.080 tell us five things to look for on the first team. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.920 I'm like, oh, it's early, Like do they scream at 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.839 the valet? I don't know, you know? And so but 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.079 I think that what you've done, it's even lifted that 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.120 pressure off of someone like me who's being asked an 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.880 impossible question, because what it does is it lifts a 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.920 shame from people who say, why didn't I pick up 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.160 on all these red flags on the first date. Now, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.600 when you're back constructed one or two years in, they'll say, oh, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.680 some of the stuff right there on the first date. 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:21.120 But again, we're really good at retrospectively putting pieces together. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.920 It's really hard in real time when you yourself are 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.040 also in a state of sort of heightened like who 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.560 is this person I'm learning about them? You can't be 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.040 the expert. And I think that that's that's actually very 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.160 freeing for people to hear that it is you cannot 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.280 be sort of narcissism detective or toxic detective or anything 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.640 like that on a first date. It's just it's it's 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.760 a ridiculous ass and it also can turn us into 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.719 a person we don't want to be. Right essentially just 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.480 a detective for red flags. Yeah, that's not a version 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.400 of us we want to be. It doesn't make us 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.400 a compelling person to spend time with it as someone 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:05.120 who's constantly kind of squinting and flinching and looking at 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.320 everyone's move and trying to extrapolate that out. And I 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.280 prefer to be a little less judgmental in a way, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:18.120 but also a little less quick to decide how wonderful 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.160 someone is. Kind of almost almost have fun, be in 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.480 the moment, enjoy the date. I'm not saying to someone 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.559 be unromantic about the date itself. Have that great time, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.680 but we have to have ways of checking ourselves and 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.400 kind of letting some of that pressure out afterwards, so 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.439 that you know, it's almost like we blow off. We 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.320 have to burn off a bit of that energy that's 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.240 been created sometimes because it's a potent mix when we 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.080 want to find love, adding some excitement at having met 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.240 someone you have a connection with, adding a little insecurity, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.080 adding some scarcity that you haven't met anyone you liked 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.240 in a while, and you have a very potent mix. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.559 You are no longer or a neutral judge of this situation, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.160 and so I think that people have to say it 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:11.240 we'll see as a magical phrase. We'll see. You know, 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.240 your friends will ask you how is the date, and 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.120 you say, oh my god, it was such a great date. 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:16.760 And he did this, and he did that, and they 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.400 did this, and your friends will say, oh my god, 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.600 and they'll amp you up even more. Your friends are 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.760 dangerous because they then namp you up. Yeah, and there 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.800 has to be to me, we'll see captures it perfectly. 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.679 It doesn't say I'm pessimistic. It just says I don't 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.000 know what I don't know. Could this become something? Maybe 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.320 we'll see. Is this person as wonderful as I hope 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.000 they are? Yeah, we'll see. Right. So it's pacing because 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.440 you're talking now about something that I talk a lot 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:51.760 about narcissistic relationships, which is discernment, right. So, and discernment 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.680 is that part between not constantly looking for red flags 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.000 but also not getting almost sort of drunk on the 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:03.440 wonderfulness of it. It's finding that middle ground where you're saying, basically, 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.960 slow your role a little bit like take it slow, 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.720 take it in, enjoy the goodness. Don't feel like you 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.560 have to be a detective, but also give yourself time 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.040 to be discerning. But if we if we take our 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.880 time with anything, we are going to learn a lot 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.719 more about it. And there is a rush. I think 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.480 people feel a rush to feel yes. And look, I've 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.400 met friends in the last forty eight hours, new people 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.360 that I really really like and impressed and am impressed with, 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.920 and in some cases I'm a little kind of almost 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.920 intimidated by it because they have done such wonderful things 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.280 in their life and that, you know, I feel that 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.240 urging me. I feel the teenage Matthew kind of rise 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.840 up and go I want to be liked so badly 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.680 by this person. I think they're great. I think I 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.800 like who they are, they have a wonderful way about them. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.640 I want this person to like me. And I perpetrator 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.160 as anyone of like putting out red flag videos because 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.520 you know, in our world we do it. But I 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.319 almost worry that sometimes we create so many red flags 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.160 that we're in danger of labeling ourselves a red flag, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.680 because I'm like, why with all these different red flags 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.199 I put out there, at some point I'm going to 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.280 be accused of one of these things, and one of 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.280 the ways that I almost sense that I become a 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.640 red flag is like that moment where I get really 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.560 excited about someone I know, I'm liable to text them 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:30.120 and gush in ways that maybe aren't organic to how 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.800 well we know each other yet or how much this 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.160 person has actually done, you know, and in that moment, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:42.439 I speed up the relationship at an inorganic pace. And 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.240 so I think what happens is we we sometimes can 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.640 be as much a part of that dynamic as somebody else. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.480 You know. It's I know you talk a lot about 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.720 love bombing. What about when we're doing a little love bomb, 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.920 you know, like when we're the ones out of insecurity 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.440 and liking someone so much that's so worried about getting 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.480 someone to lie because that we overdo it and we 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.240 try to speed the relationship up. I think one of 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.080 the things that's really wonderful about what we're talking about here, 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.199 which is the kind of we'll see approach, which is 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.160 more measured, is that there are multiple wins you get 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.360 out of it. One win is you don't steam head 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.280 first into a relationship or a dynamic with someone that 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.640 isn't earned that is going to make them possibly take 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.520 advantage of you, or you be blindsided by qualities you 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.040 didn't know were there. But the other win that you 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.000 get from it is that it is actually more attractive 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:39.360 because when someone recognizes that you are not someone who 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:44.720 has immediately decided this person is the newest best friend 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.440 you must have in your life, and that you'll say 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.880 anything to get closer to them, which then really, in 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.720 their eyes, lowers your value because they're like, oh, I 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.960 don't have an equal here. I have a fan, right, 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.720 so that's taking me though. Okay, so I don't have 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.120 any well here, I don't have a fan. That works 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.560 for some people. They like having a fan, They want 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.160 a fan, They want to be in a relationship with 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.880 a fan, right. So that's where it starts to get 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.520 a little bit dicey. If you're with somebody who's saying 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.880 I actually am looking for an equal, that's great because 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.120 that relationship then if it gets chance to take root, 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.200 it could really have some potential. But because more than 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.960 a few people out there are looking for fans, you know, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.520 they're looking for a supply, they're looking for validation that 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.600 early response, and what you're talking about in many ways 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.440 sounds like something that's called the fawn response. It's actually 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.920 a sympathetic nervous system response meant to foster attachment. Right. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.200 So Pete Walker and other people who sort of talk 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.280 about trauma and attachment talk about the fawn, which is 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.360 what you're saying, trying to win someone over. By winning 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.760 someone over, a person then feels safe. It's all about 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.320 safety seeking because that's the other thing I think we forget. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.920 I mean again, I often take things down to brass tacks, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.760 which is sort of trauma attachment safety. It's all about safety, right. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.960 So in that first date, in any number of ways, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.800 a person is seeking safety, which is where your distinction 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.000 between being impressive and being impressed starts to get real 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:20.000 tricky because for many people who are because we don't 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.200 when we go on a date, the thing on our back, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:27.200 the accessory we forget we're wearing, is our entire life history. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.480 And for people who have had histories, even childhood histories 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:40.000 of invalidation or being just minimized, mocked, criticized, dismissed, you 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.640 go into that date and someone's trying to be impressive. 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.600 That's something that is in the moment, feels so restorative 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.600 because in that moment, when someone's trying to be impressive. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.520 You feel so seen even though you want them to 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.680 be impressed by you. That's not even on the radar 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.520 of somebody who grew up like that, right, So like, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.680 oh my gosh, this person did these things for me. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.199 The idea of someone doing for someone is remarkable. So 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.680 then they feel seen. Now they're gushing, oh my gosh, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.040 I'm really into this person. I'm your fan. If you 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.680 have a personality style where you're looking more for a 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.320 fan than you are looking for equality, I'm starting to 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.480 see how this boulder tumbles down the hill. Yes, yes, 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.120 And that's so what we're bringing into that first date 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.199 of what we need and how we need to be 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.080 seen and how we need to feel safe is how 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.640 do you think about that when you're guiding people through 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.359 dating and understanding that we do have safety behaviors and 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.959 we have holes for trying to fill because that's what 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.080 we often try to do. How do you guide people 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.679 through that? If I have an anxious attachment style, after 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.480 the date, I want to text you and for you 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.879 to text me back in ten seconds otherwise I'm going 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.800 to be anxious. And if you don't text me back 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.159 for an hour or two, I'm going to it's going 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.920 to make me feel unsafe, and you don't like me, 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:02.680 and I like you more than you like me, and song, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.480 And I think then what we do is we respond 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.119 to that by doing more of that thing, by giving 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.840 into that anxious style. So I want to text you 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.119 more now and chase up on you and maybe even 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.399 tell you that I think you're out of line for 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.920 not text me back quickly or you're not doing enough. 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.240 I think it's one thing that can help us. It's 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.560 actually starting with the end in mind in terms of 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.959 the kind of relationship we want. So if I was 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:35.160 feeling secure in a relationship, what kind of relationship would 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.800 I want to have? For example, there's a moment in 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.920 the series The Office where Jim, he's actually not someone 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:49.840 who gets jealous. Pam is off studying yes, and he 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.720 sits at the bar with Pam's X, who is a 0:18:54.880 --> 0:19:01.720 kind of hot headed, jealous male controlling, And when he 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.720 hears that Pam has been out till three am and 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.920 left Jim a voice note on like late one night, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.120 he says to Jim, doesn't that concern you? That would 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.240 concern me that she's out late in New York hanging 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.240 out with new people, and it puts this thing in 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.000 Jim's mind for the first time. He's not even like that, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.399 but it infects him with this idea. The next thing 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.280 you know, Jim is in the car driving to New 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:30.480 York late at night. He's like, I'm gonna go and 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.560 find out what's going on, and you know, he gets 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.919 a little way into his drive and all of a sudden, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.960 he says, you know what, and he turns the car 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.800 around and he says no, because that is not me 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.439 and that is not our relationship. And to me, that 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:55.159 was such a powerful moment because what it did talking 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.320 about almost putting the power back in our own hands, 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.679 he took a countability for creating the kind of relationship 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.520 he wanted to be in. In other words, his safety 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.560 was not going to come from showing up and finding 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.639 out that she wasn't doing anything right. His safety was 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.359 going to come from being a leader in creating the 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.560 kind of relationship he wanted. Now, if she didn't live 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.840 up to that standard, that's a different thing if he 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.760 later found out, But right now, he was going to 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.320 be a leader in creating the kind of relationship that 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.880 he wants. So if you project forward into the kind 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.600 of relationship that is your ideal relationship, and it's not 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.239 one where when your partner goes to the bathroom you're 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.920 checking their phone. Don't check their phone. Now, if your 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:45.560 ideal relationship is one where someone can actually go off 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.919 the radar for five hours or ten hours or whatever, 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.240 and you feel fine, You feel great because there's no 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.280 anxiety there. You know they love you, you know they 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.639 care about you, know they're loyal. You know I know 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.080 if my partner and this isationship has been a beautiful 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.960 one for me because my partner, if she disappeared for 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:05.879 twenty four hours, as long as she sent me a 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.040 tech saying I'm safe, I would not have jealous feelings, 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.720 I would not have anxiety. I wouldn't wonder what she's 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.199 up to. Right and now, if that's the relationship you 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.960 want to be in, start with behaviors that build that 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:23.280 kind of relationship, because that relationship is a representation of 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.080 the kind of relationship where you actually feel safe. So 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.639 that doesn't mean obviously start giving the amount of energy 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.080 that you would if you were in a full blown 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.760 relationship with this person. It means do the things in 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.639 the beginning that imply you're going to have a healthy 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:45.760 relationship with this person. If the cadence of what they do, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.840 if the standard they give you or the respect they 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.280 give you quickly reveals itself to be one that isn't 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.680 in line with that, that then becomes a conversation and 0:21:57.960 --> 0:21:59.440 we can talk all about this. But I think there's 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.880 different ways of having the conversation depending on how early 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.040 it is, because there's a way to wait into aggressively 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.840 or in a way sometimes even too seriously when you 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.920 don't know someone very well. But to me, rather than 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:17.239 following your style, follow the moves that would create the 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.439 kind of safe relationship you actually want to be in. 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.639 Model the behavior of the relationship you want to be in. 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:24.400 And that means, by the way, if you go if 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.480 you date someone, if you've gone two dates with someone 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.400 and you haven't heard from them in the last couple 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.120 of days, reach out to them first and ask them 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.040 how they're doing and how their day is. Model the 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.520 kind of communication you want to see from them instead 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:44.080 of just being led by what they're doing. Right there, 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.679 you're nailing into something that I hear from clients I 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:49.879 work with in therapy. So I'll work with young client 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.120 not even always young clients. Sometimes clients supposed to worse 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:55.160 their dating. I know I'm not supposed to text them, 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.160 they should be texting me. How long should I wait 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.480 before I text back? Yeah? I'm not a dating expert. 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.439