1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Matt and I'm going to tee up 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: this bonus episode that we have for you this wonderful, 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: beautiful Saturday morning. You are hearing my voice because I'm 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: not going to be on the rest of this episode 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: because this is a conversation that Joel had with Justin 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: Peters of five Minded podcast that's Financial Independence, of course, 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: and Justin was kind enough to send this file over 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: for us to share with all of you how to 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Money listeners as well. But yeah, Justin very kind and 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: a great guy. Actually, quick story, I first remember meeting 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: him during fin Con one year. He was hosting a 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: run that we did around the city. I actually can't 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: remember where it was, but it's funny. I think Joel 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: and Justin get into some of that actually running, but 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: they're spending the rest of the time talking about basically 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: finding balance in life, especially after getting after it in 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: your younger years. It's not just about the money. We 18 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: love talking about all the other aspect that make up 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: a rich life. And yeah, I'm glad that they're dedicating 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: an entire conversation and episode to that topic. So this 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: is a good one and I hope you enjoy it. 22 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: Want to get something done. Put the FI community on it. 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: We're great at effort and optimization and we know how 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: to get a lot done, But I'll be honest, we're 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: terrible at knowing when to stop. I know five friends 26 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 2: that are busier than ever, starting businesses, launching projects, setting 27 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 2: ambitious goals even though they're already FI and control their time. 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: If you love what you do, more power to you. 29 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: But even when you enjoy your work, many of us 30 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: are just doing too much. We're tired, but we just 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: don't know another way to live. This is the kind 32 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: of effort that has brought us success when it comes 33 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: to financial independence, but it's also creative friction in our 34 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: lives now. So how do we move from these do 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: more strategies that helped us succeed in life to a 36 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: more balanced life where we feel in control instead of 37 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: constantly stretched To answer that, we're talking to Joel Larscard. 38 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: I've watched Joel make this shift. He's cut back his 39 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: working hours, invested time into things that he cares about, 40 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: and even taking an extended sabbatical last year. In this conversation, 41 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: Joel is going to share why it is impossible to 42 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: do it all, how to resist the temptation to always 43 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: do more in practical practices that you can start using 44 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: today to create more space in your life. By the 45 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: end of this episode, you'll have an idea of how 46 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: you can do less, enjoy more of your time, and 47 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: stay on track towards a life you actually want. Let's 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: get into it. COVID for me personally, was when I 49 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: first realized how busy my life had become, and when 50 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,839 Speaker 2: everything was forced to shut down in my life. That's 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: when I realized how powerful having some space and some 52 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: boredom actually is. Where were you and were you experiencing 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: some of these same feelings. 54 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 3: I had young kids, and I was working a normalish 55 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 3: sort of nine to five job, and I just remember 56 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: the calendar clearing nature of COVID and how at first 57 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 3: it felt so weird and then it felt so serene 58 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: to go from just a packed out calendar to being like, 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: I don't even have to look at what's coming up 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: because there's nothing coming up. There's nothing to do, there 61 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 3: are no gatherings, there are no parties, there are no people. 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: And I'm a highly relational person, so in some ways 63 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: that was really hard, but in other ways, I feel 64 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: like it was the start of kind of a different 65 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: approach to life, to living for me and for my family, 66 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 3: because man, what we did was spent a lot more 67 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 3: time out in nature. We spent a lot more time 68 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: kind of playing board games, hunkered down at the house 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 3: and enjoying that. And I'm not going to say it 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: was this overnight switch. It was easy, and we just 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: made the transition and we're good to go. But it 72 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: has been a slow realigning of priorities and that is 73 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: something we consistently look back to, not as like the 74 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: good old days, but as at least something that can 75 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: inform the fact that maybe, and I think maybe this 76 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: is what a lot of people experienced. Oh life doesn't 77 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 3: have to be the way it's been. And it's just 78 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: really easy to feel like, because this is how my 79 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: life has been for the last six months or six years, 80 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: that this is how it's got to continue. And anybody 81 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: who went through COVID realizes a lot of things, outside 82 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: things can change that. But it's not just outside things 83 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: that can have that impact. You have some autonomy over that, 84 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: the ability to change what your life looks like as well. 85 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 2: Actually, remember it being a little bit of a struggle 86 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: for me to downshift, like I remember like getting done 87 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 2: with my work projects by one, two, three o'clock at 88 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: the latest, and then like struggling a little bit with 89 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: like the guilt that came with like, oh, I should 90 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: be doing work related things for a couple more hours now, 91 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: like it's not five o'clock yet, or it's not four 92 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: or whatever it is. I felt it a little bit 93 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: of a struggle to actually just enjoy downtime and recreational time. 94 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 2: I don't know if you had similar thoughts there. 95 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 3: I think it's an adjustment. It is one of those 96 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: things that for most people, especially I think the kind 97 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: of people who listened to this type of podcasts who 98 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: are like, I'm p activity oriented, I want to get better, 99 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: I want to improve along a series of metrics in 100 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: my life, and I have not abandoned all that completely. 101 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 3: And we can get into what that looks like for 102 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 3: me in a little bit if you want. But I 103 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: think for a lot of those people, it feels really 104 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: weird and you feel a sense of uneasiness because it's 105 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: not something you've experienced. Much of the concept of rest 106 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: is like foreign, right, and so when we're presented with it, 107 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: and oftentimes when we're forced to rest, we end up 108 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: being like, gosh, that was nice. Like usually it's only 109 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: because we got laid out from some nasty sickness or 110 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: something like that, and that's how we rest, and we're like, 111 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 3: I caught up on some TV. I actually slept the 112 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: way I'm supposed to, and I feel a little bit better, 113 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: even though it was a sickness that forced me to 114 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: do it. But the truth is that we have to 115 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: continue to try. It's like and we have to adapt 116 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: to it because it's not something that we've become used to, 117 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: and we can become used to a lot of things 118 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: over time. But it's a really good idea, I think, 119 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 3: for all of us to become more accustomed to get 120 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: our bodies more accustomed to rest, or to a little 121 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: more leisure, or to a little more of a lifestyle 122 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: that feels sustainable. 123 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: You leveraged financial independence to create a life that looks 124 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: entirely different now for probably most of the people that 125 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: are your age. It's so interesting. It's like there is 126 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: this bubble of financial independence, but then we realize that 127 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: we also live in this larger bubble in community. And 128 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: I have so many friends that don't necessarily have the 129 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: luxury to be working three days a week or to 130 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: take a six week sabbatical in the summer. How has 131 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: that shown up for you? Like? Is it interesting? Has 132 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: been an interesting shift to do some of these things? 133 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: Does it feel more natural? How has these changes affected you? 134 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 3: There's the countercultural reality of doing less like slaps me 135 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: in the face sometimes, right, And sometimes I feel jealous. Right, 136 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 3: I'm talking to my friends who are crushing in their career. 137 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: They're growing their income, they're growing a business or whatever, 138 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 3: and I see the way I'm living life as being 139 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: not completely divorced from that, but very different because I 140 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: have a different set of priorities, and so sometimes that 141 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 3: rears a ugly head and I get a little I 142 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: get a little jealous of what somebody else is up to, 143 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: because it's not normal for someone in their early forties 144 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: to not be stoked about building their career. And it 145 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that I'm not stoked about the work I do. 146 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 3: I am. I love my job. I'm thrilled to come 147 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 3: in and record the podcast that we make you Know 148 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: three days a week. And I love you Know listener 149 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: engagement and the reading and the research and the writing. 150 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: I love it. All I really do. But it's just 151 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: I want to put it in its proper place. And 152 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: so I think because it is culturally abnormal, I'm constantly 153 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: kind of rubbing up against certain things that make me 154 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: feel like I'm not doing it right for sure. So 155 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: it's not it's certainly not all rainbows and puppies and 156 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 3: unicorns and stuff when you kind of make a different choice. 157 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: But I will say like that on purpose choice is 158 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: where it because of what it allows. 159 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: If you're interested, you can go back and check out 160 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: episode one thirty four. Joe and I really talked about 161 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: his story around financial independence and some of the things there. 162 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: But as a cliff note version, I mean, you've used 163 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: side hustles, real estate, investing, your W two job, and 164 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: then of course the business that you've created now did 165 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: kind of create the freedom that we're talking about? When 166 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 2: did you start downshifting from work and then you started 167 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: to realize I want to make family or running or 168 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: some of these other things a priority. And then how 169 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: did that those priorities come into a decision Like last 170 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: year whenever you took six weeks off from the podcast 171 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: in your business to spend time, and I think you 172 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: did a road trip with your family. 173 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, yeah, we did. We had like a staycation 174 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: and then we also kind of went on the road 175 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: and it's some fun travels as well. And I think 176 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: it was it really was like a gradual movement in COVID, 177 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 3: I think was the beginning. And then we moved to 178 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 3: twenty miles off the road, but it's a little bit 179 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: slower pace of life, and I walk and bike essentially 180 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 3: everywhere where I live now, and there was just it 181 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: was a slow movement towards doing less, like it was 182 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 3: not this overnight thing. And to be honest, too, part 183 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: of like being married to my wife has helped push 184 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: me in this direction, Like the way she thinks about 185 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: the world and the way she sees our family has 186 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: has really those conversations have prodded me to think differently. 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: It's like, well, what are we trying to continue to 188 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 3: invest for or make more money for, Like what's what's 189 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: the goal? What's it going to provide us? And it's 190 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: like that old fisherman story, right that everyone's heard at 191 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: this point where the fisherman's got this great job and 192 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 3: this like venture capitalist comes down he's like listen, we 193 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: like he's like sipping beers after fishing with his buddies. 194 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: That's his business. And it's like, well, we can blow 195 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 3: it up and we can buy more boats and you 196 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: can expand your business, and then what's the ultimate goal 197 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: is to retire and sit beers with your buddy after 198 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 3: a day of fishing. And he's like, I'm already doing that, right, 199 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: And so I think if we would think about our 200 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: lives a little more like that, what's the goal? Like 201 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: what are we trying to achieve? And when you realize, 202 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 3: like I put in the effort over a lot of 203 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: years so that if I keep my desires in check 204 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: and I keep the things that are my highest priority 205 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 3: at the forefront, many of which cost very little money, 206 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 3: then I can have more freedom and flexibility for things. 207 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: I felt like one of the things just I feel 208 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: like I had lost some of my own identity as 209 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: a dad of young kids and a worker. I was like, 210 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: who am I? What is it that I enjoy outside 211 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 3: of like work and family stuff and raising kids? And 212 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: I felt this intense need to go explore that. I 213 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: was like, otherwise I'm going to get sucked into this 214 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 3: vortex and feel like I'm completely gone. Who is Joel anymore. 215 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: So that's been one of the real endeavors too of 216 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 3: these past years, is to lean into that and say, 217 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: who am I on all these levels? And I'm a 218 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: much better dad and husband because I'm making space and 219 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: time for myself and I didn't want it to come 220 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 3: at the expense of family time. So really the place 221 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: that had to come out of was work and realize, well, 222 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: that's okay, Like I can do that. I can make 223 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: that decision without it being a financial threat. And the 224 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 3: biggest threat, I think for me, what it was, and 225 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 3: I know this isn't true for everybody, was the threat 226 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: of what that would reveal to the people around me. Oh, 227 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 3: I'm deprioritizing work in my life. It's even weird to 228 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: talk it's weird to talk about a public it's weird 229 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: to talk about with my friends, because not many people 230 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: are in that space where they're like, yeah, work is 231 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 3: like one part, one cog in this machine of a 232 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: great life, and for a lot of people it's just 233 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: it's a huge part of their identification. And again, love 234 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 3: my job, but to see it as less a piece 235 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: of my identity so that I could find my identity 236 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 3: in other places and things, and. 237 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 2: I think it's something I'm struggling with currently too, is 238 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: I downshift away from work, even just away from being 239 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: a podcaster and into other aspects of life, like, of 240 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: course I want to be a great significant other, and 241 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: whenever parenthood comes up, I want to be a good 242 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: parent too, but those are with someone else. There's this 243 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: like other dynamic to it. I wanted to have some independence. 244 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: That's just like who is just in showing up in 245 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: the world as It's taking time honestly to sort that out. 246 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: But I realized I needed to create the white space 247 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: and the boredom in order to actually find it. Like 248 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'll retire into something once I 249 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: know what that is. But you almost have to like 250 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: give yourself some time off, allow fridays to open up 251 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: for you not be so tired in order to like experiment, 252 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: explore and find some other hobbies, interest passions that you 253 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: really care about. And then don't make this mistake that 254 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: I always do too, like how can I monetize this 255 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: bobby or this interest? So I got justin, who cares? 256 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: There's no business here, There doesn't need to be business. 257 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: They can almost defeat the purpose of it. Then right, Yeah, 258 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: if you're trying to turn it into a business, I 259 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: think you're right. And I think that is probably one 260 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: of the main reasons I think we feel detached from ourselves. 261 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: Is not just the constant busyness, but it's the constant 262 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: distraction and it's really hard to find that white space. 263 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: And I mean everybody, I don't want to pull the 264 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 3: Jonathan hate stuff here or whatever about our smartphones and 265 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: their intrusion in our lives, but there are some meaningful 266 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: changes I had to make on that front so that 267 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: I could one feel more present when I was with 268 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 3: my family, so I could actually like derive joy from 269 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: that time instead of feeling like they were a distraction 270 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: from the other things I felt like I needed to 271 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 3: get done. And that was because I was over amplifying 272 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: the importance of certain things that were on my phone, 273 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: including my email. I've taken email off my phone, and 274 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: that was one of the things, was like, well, what 275 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: if something really important comes through. I have a laptop upstairs, man, 276 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: and I can like I can run up there and 277 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: check my email once or twice a day, but I'm 278 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: not checking it like three times an hour, you know, 279 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 3: which is just overkill and utterly ridiculous, and none of 280 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 3: us did that fifteen years ago, but we feel like 281 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: we need to now. Yeah, I do think there are 282 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 3: some like truly practical things that we can do to 283 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: scale down on some of those intrusions into our lives 284 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: that will make it easier to be those kind of 285 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 3: people who allow space, the white space, so that we 286 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: can experience some of that bortum, because that's where some 287 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 3: of the greatest ideas come from. And then that's often 288 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: two where we start to ask questions that we wouldn't 289 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 3: otherwise ask. When our brain is left to kind of 290 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: like ruminate and evolve, we really do start to ask 291 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: some interesting questions of ourselves, but often we never let 292 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: our brains get into that space. 293 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about some of the practicals. What did 294 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: you do on the workfront. Did you put any bumpers 295 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: on the days you work or the kind of work 296 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: that you do in certain timeframes? And then I'll kind 297 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: of seguey us into the small practices. I love the 298 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: deleting email off your phone, and that just feels like 299 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: an obvious so we'll get there too. 300 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. The first thing was literally just to be like, 301 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: why are we working Fridays, like, is there need Are 302 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 3: we just coming in to get stuff done that doesn't 303 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 3: need to be done? Can we? And there's the I think, 304 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 3: is it Parkins's law that the amount of work will 305 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 3: fill up to the time that you allow it, right, 306 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 3: and so like can we do this in less time? 307 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: Oh? 308 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: Yeah we can. And so that was the first thing 309 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: to go with Fridays, and so Fridays then became like 310 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: me time. That was the carved out space. I'm not 311 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 3: going to like go for a two hour run on 312 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: a Saturday and like leave my family in the lurch 313 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: most of the time, unless I want to get up 314 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 3: early and I like my sleep, so so usually I 315 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: don't want to do that. But that's where Fridays came in. 316 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 3: Fridays were my chance to to like catch up on 317 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: a few errands if I needed to, because I feel 318 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: like that's what Saturdays often I found myself doing, was 319 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: running around town and going to the grocery store and 320 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: stuff like that. And so Fridays have really become this 321 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: day for me to catch up with people that I 322 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: haven't seen in a while, grab a coffee, go for 323 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 3: a run, go for a hike with a friend, stuff 324 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: like that get outdoors and so just to know that, 325 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: like Fridays are mine is awesome. Like if my wife's 326 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: off too, we can go out for lunch and that's great. 327 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: She's building a career, she's in a different stage than 328 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 3: I am, so I'm like over here with like less 329 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 3: to do than even her. And then it just started 330 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: to encroach in other ways too, where I was like, 331 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 3: oh cool, sometimes I'm coming in at ten ten thirty 332 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: and we found that we and then going to the sabbatical, 333 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 3: it was one of those things where it was like 334 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: you should have heard some of the conversations between me 335 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: and Matt, Like especially on my end, was like angst 336 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 3: and like is this thing going to survive us abandoning 337 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: it for two months? And then what happens if we 338 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: come back to a shell of a podcast and we 339 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: are essentially unemployed because no one wants to listen to 340 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: us because we hung it up for so long, And 341 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 3: there are all those questions that will come along the way, 342 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: like it is never this guaranteed sure fire. You make 343 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: this decision and your life's going to be better and 344 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: there are no trade offs. There are always trade offs 345 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: to these decisions, and some of which will be financial, 346 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: some of which will be the slowing of the building 347 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: of the thing that you're working on, but you have 348 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 3: to decide which one is more important. And so yeah, 349 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: part of it was just like, let's take fridays off, 350 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: coming in later on other days, and then it turns 351 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: out we can still get the things we need to 352 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: get done done. And then we find we find new 353 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: processes like to be able to get what we need 354 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: to get done done, or we switch things up where 355 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: Matt handles something that I used to handle, or I'm 356 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: taking some thing on solo that he used to join 357 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 3: me in, and so we've been able to divvy it 358 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 3: up in a way where it doesn't feel like we're 359 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 3: putting in less effort or getting less joy from it. 360 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: We're just spending less time doing it. 361 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: I love that. And if you don't realize it, Matt 362 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: is Joel's co host and business partner and how to Money, 363 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: you took six weeks off and that I mean that 364 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: kind of pressure tests a lot in a business, I 365 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 2: feel like, and people I think can also do this 366 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: in their own careers too, and going through those processes 367 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: and identifying what can be automated, what could be simplified. 368 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: I find that really fascinating to at least go through 369 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: that practice not only with your career but life in general. Yeah, like, 370 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: there might be some areas, especially the FI community too, 371 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 2: as we gain more money, there might be things that 372 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 2: just makes less sense for us to continue to do 373 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 2: in our own households and our careers. There's lots of 374 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: things that we can hire out for help at some 375 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: point in time. I just I like that you're approaching 376 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: it in the way of like, let's try to look 377 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: at things a little bit differently. And you've been running 378 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: a lot of I feel like mini experiments over the 379 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 2: last year of like what's it look like if if 380 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: we slow down, if we use replays on the podcast 381 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: a little bit more often, or we stop publishing the newsletter, 382 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 2: or like they don't have to be binary like forever 383 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: decisions too. I like the creativity that you have behind 384 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: work right now to still get what you want out 385 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 2: of it, but make it shape your life a little 386 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 2: bit more. And like I said, the FI communities in 387 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: a perfect position to do that. As we gain more 388 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: control of our finances, and therefore I think we should 389 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: be gaining more control of our freedom. Autotomy and time. 390 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 3: I think in some ways it's easier as a business owner, 391 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: although in some ways it's harder, right because like you 392 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: are Atlas with the world on your shoulders, like that's 393 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 3: your business, and if you drop it, then oops, like 394 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 3: business feels like it just got stopped. I think there's 395 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 3: some of both in that, but in a lot of 396 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 3: ways it does feel like as the business owner, like 397 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: it rises or falls with you. And so if you 398 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 3: want to as long as you know you're like doing 399 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 3: what you need to do and you're doing it well, 400 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 3: it allows you the freedom to be like I don't 401 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 3: have to do it all the time then, But as 402 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 3: a W two employee, I think actually, especially in modern America, 403 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 3: we have more flexibility than we think, and we put 404 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 3: more pressure on ourselves than we need to. And if 405 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: we just have some of those open conversations with our 406 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 3: manager or the person and the team we work with 407 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: about what our boundaries are. Like. I've got tons of 408 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: friends who are W two workers who I'm constantly shocked at, 409 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: like the flexibility that they pull off given the careers 410 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 3: that they have, And I think sometimes it needs to 411 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 3: be like a collaborative conversation or you need to say hey, 412 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 3: here's really what I need. I'm thriving, I'm going to 413 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: continue to kick butt, but I really need this this 414 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 3: time parameter opened up for me. So whether it's half 415 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 3: days on Fridays or something like that, and like listen, 416 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 3: my productivity will not go down. But this is what's 417 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 3: going to allow me to stay here long term and 418 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 3: be a key player on this team. Whatever that looks 419 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 3: like for you. With your boss, it's a conversation that's 420 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: worth broaching because it's really easy to just kind of 421 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 3: continue to go through the motions and be like, well, 422 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: everybody work eight to five Monday through Friday, and nobody's. 423 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: Asked for this. 424 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 3: Well, if you're really good at what you do, you 425 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 3: can totally ask. And the truth is too, there are 426 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: a lot of other places you could work that would 427 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 3: be would love to hire somebody like you with a 428 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 3: more flexible work schedule because you're that valuable, right, So 429 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 3: it's really easy to shut it down and be like, well, 430 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: it's easy for him to say because he owns his 431 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 3: own business and he can like do it how he wants, 432 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 3: and there is some truth to that. But I think 433 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: it's also true that more people have the power or 434 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: can gain that power over time, even if it doesn't 435 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 3: feel like it's going to be easier instantaneous. 436 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: How do you resist temptation to keep doing more, especially 437 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: in the career avenue, Like, especially with a successful project 438 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 2: like how to Money, Like, it's one thing if I'm 439 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: like laid off and kind of forced to do less. 440 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: It's another thing if things are going really well in 441 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 2: my career or the project that I'm working on, you know, 442 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 2: specifically for how to Money, successful project for you and Matt. 443 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: What's stopping you guys from growing it even bigger? Like 444 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: I could imagine you guys doing a daily show or 445 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: creating spinoffs like how to Friends or how to Career, Like, 446 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: There's so many opportunities for you guys to continue to 447 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: build it, like your Top one hundred show, now you 448 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: want to be a Top fifty show or a Top 449 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: twenty show. I don't know, there's so much temptation there 450 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: to continue and double down on what's working well in 451 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: the career aspect. 452 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 3: For sure, and I am. I love opportunity and I 453 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: hate to say no to a good opportunity, And so 454 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: that is something I've struggled with and had to really 455 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: grow in and learn from. And my wife just had 456 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: the opportunity to do this training apparently that like nobody 457 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: gets into and she's a super young therapist and she 458 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 3: got in and she's like, I mean, I gotta do 459 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 3: this right, And I'm like, I don't know, it sounds awesome. 460 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 3: You don't have to, like do you want to do? 461 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: And so it's going back to like do you want 462 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 3: to or do you feel like you have to? And 463 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: it does. If the way I live is great, would 464 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 3: ten million dollars change my life? It wouldn't. And it's 465 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: not because it wouldn't massively increase my net worth, right, 466 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: But it's like, ultimately, if I love my life the 467 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: way it's constructed, in what way does spending a ton 468 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 3: more time knows to the grindstone building a business that's 469 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: going to increase my income at what cost and for 470 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,239 Speaker 3: what goal? And I had to find other things that 471 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 3: lit me up just as much, if not more, than work, 472 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: And again keeping work in that proper confine, I don't 473 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 3: think I'll ever want to not work because I do 474 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 3: find a lot of value and fulfillment from it. I 475 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 3: think I want work to be a part of my 476 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 3: life for always. But I think this is the way 477 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 3: it makes it sustainable, right if I have these other 478 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: outlets that matter to me just as much. And that 479 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: is That's like something I really want to talk about 480 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: at some point in this podcast, and maybe i'll bring 481 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: it up now, is the Spire model, which was developed 482 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: by a Harvard professor, and it's about these like five 483 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: areas of human reality that really, when you come down 484 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 3: to it, are worth measuring your life on, right, And 485 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 3: so it's spiritual, physical, intellectual, relational, and emotional. And when 486 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 3: I started to kind of think about my life in 487 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: those facets, I found myself bankrupt in some of those areas. 488 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, I'm doing pretty good on 489 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 3: the business building. I'm doing pretty decent on the financial 490 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: independent side of things, but my goodness, like I have 491 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: not explored much of the emotional depths of my interior. 492 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 3: Being married to a therapist will also help you realize 493 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: that you have not done that work. And so when 494 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: I started to look at my life through that lens, 495 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: I was like, there's just more balance. I want to 496 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 3: achieve to be the person I want to be in 497 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 3: this world, and not everybody will feel that. Not everyone 498 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 3: will think that's a really helpful framework. But I think 499 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 3: whether you're religious or not, like I think across all 500 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 3: spectrums of kind of how we live, thinking about those 501 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 3: five facets of your life and then being like, how 502 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: am I doing in those areas? What's holding me back 503 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 3: from maybe being more physically healthy, what's holding me back 504 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 3: from being more relationally engaged, what's holding you back from 505 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: being more emotionally healthy? Those are really good questions worth asking. 506 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 3: And some of it is time and some of it 507 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 3: is intentionality. So you're going to have to change I think, 508 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: both of those things and think about the inputs that 509 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: you're expressing and how those are helping you become the 510 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 3: person you want to become. Ultimately, Like, we are in 511 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 3: the driver's seat of our own lives, and it's just 512 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: really really easy to get comfortable with the idea that 513 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 3: somebody else is making the calls and that we don't 514 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 3: have any decision making ability. And I know it feels 515 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: more like that at some than sometimes in others, But 516 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: I just think there's less truth to that than we think, 517 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 3: and holding our light up against a different prism can 518 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: help us to see what's actually going on inside and 519 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 3: what do we want to change? 520 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's better to focus on the things that you 521 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 2: can control than can't control, and oftentimes I think the 522 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: things you can't control are there's actually some practical ways 523 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: that you can take some more ownership and control of those. 524 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: So talking through the spier method a little bit more, 525 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 2: then two, did you sit down with those five pillars 526 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: and then just literally ask yourself what's going well, what's 527 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: not going well in these areas? What's holding me back? 528 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: And then did you did you spend a day with that? 529 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: Is this something that you revisit often? And then how 530 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: do you take that information, especially when you realize there's 531 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: a pillar that you might not be putting enough intention into. 532 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: How do you action orient that then into your life? 533 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, it's something that over 534 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: the past couple of years I've been referencing more and more, 535 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 3: and as I go back to it, I see, well, 536 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 3: this is Look, I'm really strong in this area or 537 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 3: that area and less strong in others. And it's pretty consistent, 538 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 3: like there's a couple and I think most people will 539 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: find that, like I'm really good at the relational thing, 540 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 3: not so good at the physical thing or whatever. And 541 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 3: I think it's something that's worth kind of doing check ins, 542 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 3: whether it's once a month, once every six months, and 543 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 3: just being like, where have I made progress? Where do 544 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 3: I want to make progress? Where do I feel like 545 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 3: I'm falling short? And what am I going to do 546 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 3: to kind of change that? And the cool thing is 547 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 3: some activity can hit a bunch of different things on 548 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 3: the spire model, and there are a couple for me 549 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 3: that I feel like hit all five. That's very rare. 550 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: Most of them are going to hit like one, two 551 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 3: or three at most. But that's why doing those things 552 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 3: that really provide benefit across all those levels is really wonderful. 553 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: Find those things and lean into them, and then see 554 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: where am I. Where do I feel deficient? Do I 555 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 3: feel like, oh my gosh, I've had no spiritual reality 556 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 3: to my existence for a long time. What does it 557 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: look like to engage that. Do I want to go 558 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: back to the church of my childhood? Oh my gosh, 559 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: no way. Is there some other other sort of practice 560 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 3: that you can engage into that would give you some 561 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 3: exposure on that front, or maybe you physically like me, 562 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 3: for the most of my life, did very little. I 563 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 3: would bike to work and stuff like that, but none 564 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 3: of it was ever training oriented. It was a leisurely 565 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: bike ride in and I'm like, you know what, I'm 566 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 3: shocked and how much increasing exposure to that part of 567 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 3: my world has opened up for me on even all 568 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 3: these other fronts that it felt like it was just 569 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 3: physical and then it's like shocking, running impacts all these 570 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 3: other areas of my life and meaningful ways too. So 571 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: I think it's something It's kind of a good rubric, 572 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 3: I guess to think about when you're trying to understand 573 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: where you are and where you want to see growth, 574 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 3: and then find activities and practices that will help you 575 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 3: to grow in the ways that you want to see growth, 576 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: and to maybe even just give yourself a pat on 577 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: the back for the ways you're doing well too. 578 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit more about running. It sounds 579 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: like you recently got into running. Maybe you enjoyed running 580 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 2: in the past. I know we both share love for 581 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 2: running here, and I love that you kind of started 582 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: with the intention of this might be something that kind 583 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 2: of checks the box of the physical elements, but I 584 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: feel like you were looting that it might be checking 585 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: more than one of the pillars in the spire model 586 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: that you're talking about here. 587 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: And that's one of one of the rare things that 588 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 3: checks all of the boxes in there for me. And 589 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: it's really funny because if you had and I talked 590 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: to my kids about this all the time now because 591 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 3: they're like, I don't like doing that thing, and I'm like, yeah, 592 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 3: well there's a lot of things you don't think you 593 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: liked doing until you give it a shot. That was 594 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: running for me because I literally, I just I think 595 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 3: I have these distinct memories of being in elementary school 596 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 3: and the Presidential Fitness Test and we were all forced 597 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 3: to run a mile and I ran it ridiculously slow, 598 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm not good at running. I'm 599 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 3: not interested in it. And I saw these other kids 600 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: whizzen by at like six and a half minute pace. 601 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 3: But the thing was, we never trained or no one 602 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 3: ever talked to us about like, well, here's actually some 603 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 3: of the fun parts of running or the benefits of it, 604 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: or the cool things you can do, like you could 605 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 3: run on trails and stuff like that. And so I 606 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 3: guess it was about three years ago when I first started, 607 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 3: and I was really really bad, right really bad, because 608 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: I was just out of shape and had not I 609 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 3: mean I remember running a couple miles on the trails 610 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: with one of my friends and I'd have to like 611 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 3: stop and walk. I'd have to sit down on a 612 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: bench sometimes, and it feels really demoralizing in some ways. 613 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 3: But in another way, I needed something to be bad at. 614 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 3: I needed something to start from ground zero on and 615 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 3: to build right like and I think that's also a challenge. 616 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 3: It was this good challenge for me in middle life 617 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 3: where I was like, I'm pretty good at my job. 618 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: I enjoy doing it, like you kind of get into 619 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 3: a rut and a rhythm, and a rut or rhythm, 620 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 3: I guess, and there's being different things. But starting something 621 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: new that was really hard has actually been and pushing 622 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 3: through that hard phase and it's still hard. It never 623 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: gets easy to me. That's been one of the most 624 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 3: like life giving things of the past few years. And 625 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 3: I just encourage more people in there, you know, hitting 626 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 3: that forty mark, like that's a really good thing to 627 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: lean into. What's the thing that you think maybe I 628 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 3: could actually come around to liking that thing. It might 629 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: take a little bit of effort, but actually maybe I 630 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: need to be terrible. It's something because I'm pretty competent 631 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 3: in a lot of areas of my life. 632 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: I also love that one of the hesitations that I 633 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: have around doing less is just feeling like I'm becoming 634 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: a passenger in life and I'm a little less ambitious 635 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: with what I'm trying to accomplish in my life. But 636 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: I love that you slowed down on work, but you 637 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 2: inserted something like running that has been a passion of 638 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: yours and has been something that gives you ambition. Like 639 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: you've ran races, You've ran races for time, You've ran 640 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 2: races for fun, but it's something that you just actively 641 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: wanted to get better at. 642 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's really important right to have those things 643 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 3: that you just want to get better at. But it's 644 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: also important to have some metrics, right it's fun, Like 645 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: Mike Garman watches constantly attached to me, and I love 646 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 3: the metrics of it all, But I also like purposefully 647 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 3: don't check into the more advanced metrics because I also 648 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 3: wanted to remain a fun hobby and endeavor and so 649 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: just getting out there and running. I never like leave 650 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 3: my watch at home because I like to know how 651 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 3: many miles I've run and what was my pace and 652 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 3: stuff like that. But it's really easy also to nerd 653 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: out about all the details, and part of the joy 654 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: I find in it is and I have to remind 655 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 3: myself of this as well. It's just getting out there 656 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 3: and being in nature, being on the trails, running with friends. 657 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 3: I love running by myself. I love running with friends. 658 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 3: But I have been shocked to talking about the Spire 659 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: model and how running has hit the r in a 660 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 3: big way. I'm shocked. Some of my best friends now 661 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 3: have come in the last couple of years just because 662 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 3: they're running buddies, and there's something it's running to me 663 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: is the new version of getting a beer at night. 664 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 3: I'm hanging out with people. We're going super deep, you know, 665 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: by thirty minutes into the run, and then we still 666 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: got another thirty forty minutes together. And so I've been 667 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 3: really thankful for it. From that perspective, it's a middle 668 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 3: aged man's way to I don't know, meet other people. 669 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: I like it, and men especially we need I think 670 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: we need an anchor activity to bridge relationships. I find 671 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: it kind of hard to just text a buddy and 672 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: just be like, hey, man, you want to like just 673 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: come over and hang out. It's much easier for me 674 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: to text friends and Mecca, you want to go for 675 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 2: a run, and then a run might turn into a 676 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 2: beer coffee afterwards, and that might turn into you know something, 677 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: an invite to get together later. Like it's been helpful 678 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: to have an anchor activity like running to build some 679 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: friends and relationships around. 680 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 3: Yes, yep, I agree. I think board games are another one. 681 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 3: If you're like running that's for idiots, that's fine. Board 682 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 3: games that's another good one. And coffee is always good. 683 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 3: I love just kind of a nice coffee hang or 684 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 3: just a hike a walk, like that's a great activity too. 685 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: So there's like so many choices. Most of them cost 686 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 3: little to no money, but they can enhance relationships, and 687 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 3: I think when it comes down to it, like so 688 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 3: many of the activities in our lives, there are bids 689 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 3: to increase relationship. If you buy concert tickets to go 690 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 3: with a friend, or to go with your spouse, or 691 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 3: to go with your you know, the person you're dating, 692 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, you're excited to see the show, but 693 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: it's also it's totally a relational endeavor, and going alone 694 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 3: would be not nearly as exciting, right, or going to 695 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 3: the movies by yourself it's like it just it hits different. 696 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: You're just you're not as excited to watch the new 697 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 3: movie that you want to see unless you get to 698 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 3: kind of share it with somebody. So it's totally fine 699 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 3: to spend money on those awesome things too. Like that's 700 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 3: something I'm spending more money on these days is concerts. 701 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 3: But I think leaning into and realizing how relational we are. 702 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 3: I even talk to my friends who are more introverted, 703 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 3: and they'll tell me something, typically along the lines of like, 704 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 3: I didn't realize I needed this, like because it's not 705 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 3: what they're prone to do is to make those plans 706 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 3: and to hang out, and they could be okay, just 707 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 3: kind of flying under the radar and being at home. 708 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: But especially if you're an introvert, I think probably forcing 709 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: yourself on occasion a little more to partake in those 710 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 3: activities so that you can have that relational connection. You 711 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 3: probably won't regret it afterwards. 712 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: I love the strategy that you're kind of talking about 713 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: right now, Like, if you've got a concert you want 714 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 2: to go to, just buy two tickets and sort out 715 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: who you're going to bring. And especially like, once again, 716 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: we're in a privileged position of at least having somewhat 717 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 2: an abundance whenever it comes to money. It's fun to 718 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 2: be able to treat a friend that I know that's 719 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: going through a rough patch right now where money might 720 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: be tight, and I know their favorite artist is coming, 721 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 2: or they we have a restaurant spot that they've always 722 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: wanted to go to. It's nice to suspect, dude, I 723 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 2: got it, Like just come hang with me and spend 724 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 2: some time with me. 725 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 3: One hundred percent man. And I think sometimes in like 726 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 3: the five Universe, it's it's really easy to keep thinking 727 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 3: about accruing more and more and you think about some 728 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 3: of the rule of seventy two or something, Well, I 729 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 3: spend that much money on that ticket, it would be 730 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: worth ten years from now. And like part of the 731 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 3: glory and the goodness of having been a good saver 732 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 3: and your investments having done well is the joy of 733 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 3: sharing that with other people. And typically doesn't look like 734 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 3: just handing them cash that's weird, but it's like, yeah, 735 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 3: let me prioritize an experience for us, or let me 736 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 3: pick up let me buy the beers tonight, like please. 737 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 3: And I love doing that because I know it means 738 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 3: it means a lot. It meant a lot to me 739 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 3: when I was younger, and other people would do that 740 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 3: for me, and so I want to return the favor. 741 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 3: And I think, yeah, people feel special when you do that, 742 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 3: and it's such an easy, easy thing to do that 743 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: most of the time isn't very expensive. 744 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: I remember one of my favorite moments with you. You 745 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 2: took me to one of your favorite breakfast spots in 746 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 2: Atlanta and picked up the bill, and it was so 747 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: fun to like see where you spend your college days 748 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 2: after like a hangover Saturday or something. It was like 749 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: such a cool experience. I remember the biscuits and gravy 750 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: being incredible too, So yeah, I like we got to 751 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: do that spot again, Yes, for sure. As we finished 752 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: up this episode, what about small practices? We kind of 753 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 2: talked about some of the big things. I love cutting fridays, 754 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: finding a hobby or an interest that that really builds 755 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 2: your identity that doesn't revolve work. But what about some 756 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: of the small things you mentioned, deleting email off your phone, 757 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: anything else that you've done recently that has made a 758 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 2: big difference in creating space in your life. 759 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 3: For anybody else out there who's a parent, you realize 760 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 3: that kids activities and sports get insane. And I have 761 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 3: so many friends who are in a similar space to 762 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 3: our family, but their lives are so much more chaotic 763 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 3: and so much more crowded. And it's because it's like, oh, 764 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 3: we do lacrosse three nights a week and soccer two 765 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 3: nights a week, and then there's like four games on Saturdays. 766 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 3: And you think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Like, that 767 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 3: is one kid in a week, right, and they've got 768 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: multiple kids, and so they're they're separate, like all night 769 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 3: every night because they're taking each kid to their you know, 770 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: to their various activities, and so I think it's really 771 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: important to say, well, what, okay, what we're like, Hey, 772 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 3: one sport at a time, you know, one practice a 773 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: week and a game on Saturday. That's fine, but like 774 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 3: it's really easy to overdo it on that, and then 775 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 3: you know, you lose your family identity and your some 776 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 3: of your individuality in the process. So be careful as 777 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 3: parents with that. We've we try to keep like a 778 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 3: really tight regiment on that. Not that we don't want 779 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: our kids to do things they enjoy, but we just 780 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: want to ensure that we're like family dinners, right, family 781 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 3: breakfast and family dinners are really really important. You know, 782 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 3: my kids are out the door by like eight fifteen, 783 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 3: and so that time together in the morning is awesome. 784 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 3: It's super important for us. And if I had to 785 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 3: leave a little bit earlier and miss out on that'd 786 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 3: be a huge bummer. I want to be home in 787 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 3: time for dinner most of the nights. Most nights we 788 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 3: have a family dinner together. I think those rhythms are 789 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 3: really important. There's something else too, And this is like 790 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 3: an old school Biblical concept, but the idea of having 791 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 3: a sabbath is underutilized and people don't realize the power 792 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 3: of it. I didn't realize the power of it until recently. 793 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 3: Just so we have really taken it seriously over the 794 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 3: past read to six months. 795 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 2: And you just mean like a like a day of rest, 796 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 2: that's right. 797 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: And what does that look like. Well, it doesn't mean 798 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 3: we sleep all day, but and in fact, in some 799 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 3: ways our Saturdays, so it's like we do it like 800 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 3: Friday night to Saturday night, and in some ways, like 801 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 3: most of our Saturday or a Friday night doesn't look 802 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 3: terribly different than what it looked like before. There was 803 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 3: often like a pizza movie night, and there was some 804 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 3: chill you know, Saturday morning or whatever. But there's no chores. 805 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 3: Normally there would be. There's no errands, and normally I'd 806 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 3: be like, Oh, i gotta go get this thing done 807 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 3: real quick. I'm just gonna check that off my to 808 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 3: do list. There's none of that, and so it is like, 809 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 3: from a mental break perspective, I'm shocked at how much 810 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 3: of an impact it's made. And there's there's like there's 811 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 3: no email, Like I'm not checking my phone as regularly either, 812 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 3: because I'm like, no, this is this is the break 813 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 3: from all that stuff. And so it's not that we 814 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 3: don't have friends over, or not that we don't do 815 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 3: fun stuff or not that we might not go to 816 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 3: a basketball game for my son, but it is like 817 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 3: this mental approach to a twenty four hour period of 818 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: our week and it's realizing that we have enough, we 819 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 3: don't need to work for more. Right now, we can 820 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 3: chill out. Seriously, I can't overstate the value and the 821 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 3: benefit of doing that with twenty four hours of your day. 822 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 3: And again, it's really hard because especially as like a 823 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 3: guy who likes to go, I've got a motor on me, 824 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 3: it's hard not to like want to be productive sometimes. 825 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 3: So I was like, I gotta go make this Amazon 826 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 3: return and my wife's like, we're sabbathing right now, man, 827 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 3: like this isn't the time to make returns. I'm like, oh, yeah, 828 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 3: you're right. So I have to catch myself in it. 829 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 3: And we're still new to it. But that's been one 830 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 3: of those things that I would suggest people at least 831 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 3: consider and try out. 832 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of a practice I do selfish Sunday, 833 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 2: where Sunday is obligation free. I try not to guilt 834 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 2: myself if someone sends me an invite and I just 835 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: don't really want to do it on a Sunday. Like 836 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,720 Speaker 2: most other days, I'll will my way to pretty much anything, 837 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 2: especially in a period where I'm prioritizing showing it for 838 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: friends and really trying to prioritize being a good friend. 839 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 2: But Sundays I've really tried to protect for myself. I'm 840 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,959 Speaker 2: a big to do list person as well, like I'll 841 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 2: create a to do list at the beginning of every 842 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: single day. Sunday is that one day that I don't 843 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 2: There's really only one obligation that I have on Sunday, 844 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 2: and that's to continue my running streak. So I'm going 845 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 2: to run at least two miles on Sunday. But the 846 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 2: rest of the Sunday is just like build your own adventure. 847 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 2: You know. If someone sends me an invite and it 848 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 2: sounds really fun and like my gut reaction is like, 849 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 2: ooh that's fun, then yeah, I'll go. But if my 850 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 2: gut reaction is like, ugh, I don't know if I 851 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 2: really want to do that today, then I just, once 852 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 2: again don't guilt myself into doing that. And same with 853 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 2: chores and errands and projects and all the things. Like 854 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 2: if I'm excited to do it, cool, If I'm not, 855 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 2: it can wait till Monday. 856 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 3: And like that's also just so countercultural, isn't it. Like 857 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 3: how many people do you know that like Aaron's seep 858 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 3: into every day of the week or they just they 859 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 3: and then they're they find they start Monday frazzled again, 860 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 3: because it does it. It felt like the weekend was Yeah, 861 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 3: it was different. I wasn't doing the work for my boss, 862 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 3: but there was no moment in time where it didn't 863 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 3: feel like my brain was on and I was actively 864 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 3: working towards something whether it was a project around the house, 865 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 3: not that I wanted to do, but that I felt 866 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 3: like I needed to do, And to be honest with 867 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 3: young kids, it doesn't mean it's always like chill and easy. 868 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,439 Speaker 3: It does mean that we've all got like a little 869 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 3: bit of a different perspective on how our weekend went 870 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 3: now and how we feel going into Monday. So there's 871 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 3: still sometimes where it's insanity. There's no way to do 872 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 3: it perfectly. I don't think whether you have kids or 873 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 3: you don't, but I do think, Yeah, having that instituting 874 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 3: that sabbath has been one of those kind of cornerstone 875 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 3: things for us. It's made a big difference. 876 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 2: Well, Joel, you're one of my favorite content creators out there. 877 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 2: You got an awesome podcast called how to Money. What's 878 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 2: cooking on that front? Anything in particular you're really excited 879 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 2: in terms of episodes or content you're creating right now? 880 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 3: Oh well, it's dude, I still love it. I love it. 881 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 3: I truly do love creating the podcast every week. Get 882 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 3: to do it with my best buddy, and like, what's 883 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 3: better than that? What's better than going into work like 884 00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,479 Speaker 3: when you want and then working with your best friend 885 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 3: and creating content together. So yeah, people, if you're looking 886 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 3: for money advice or money help, like it's try to 887 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 3: be super practical. We answer listener questions on Monday's Interview, 888 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 3: really interesting people on Wednesdays, and they talk about the 889 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 3: financial news of the week on Fridays. Yeah, they're all 890 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 3: a joy to me. I love like the reading, and 891 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 3: so I can't I can't get enough. You would think, 892 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 3: as somebody who's been in the money space for twenty years, 893 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 3: I would be tired of the topic, and I'm just 894 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 3: not because I think it touches so many areas of 895 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 3: our lives and even the stuff you and I have 896 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 3: talked about today, Like I feel that kind of bleeding 897 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 3: into what we talk about on the show, because money 898 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 3: like touches every area and if we're not talking about 899 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 3: the whole point of it and how we love our 900 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 3: lives and how our money impacts that, then I feel 901 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 3: like we're not doing it right either. So that's some 902 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 3: of these topics are coming up on the show too. 903 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 2: Once again, if you haven't checked out How to Money, 904 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 2: go check them out. Matt and Joel put a ton 905 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 2: of effort into the content. They have a really awesome 906 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 2: podcast out there It's a good companion to this podcast 907 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 2: as well. Jiel Man, always a blast talking to you. 908 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time today. 909 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me mm hmm.