WEBVTT - Who were the first Americans? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know? 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.360 From House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.319 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.000 Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which means that you're listening to 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.960 stuff you should know right this, straight ahead, as you've 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.880 been in a long time. My friend is very nice. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.760 Thanks you think, Yeah, I try to mix it up 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.320 every once in a while. We consider it mixed. Thanks. Um. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.800 I will as a matter of fact from this point forward, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:46.360 Chuck um quick who discovered America? Christopher Columbus. Yeah, even 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:52.040 if you qualify it by saying what European discovered America? Uh, 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.840 Columbus was beaten by a good five years by the 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.160 Norse right who found who were in Newfoundland. That's not 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.040 what we were taught in history. Definitely, there's no Norse day, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.320 No no leaf ericson day. I don't think there is 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:13.080 not in the US. Um. And there's also evidence that 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.440 the Norse were beaten by a good five hundred years 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.800 by an Irish monk who used a rowboat to make 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.880 it from Ireland over to North America and he wrote 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.120 about it, and um, the tenacious monk was at his name, 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.640 that's what I would call him. Yeah, well, yeah, at 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:35.319 the very least, or if not the completely insane monk. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:37.640 He came back and wrote about it and draw or 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.840 drew some maps. I believe he drawed some maps and 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.800 um there, so there is some sort of evidence that 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.680 that he made contact with these people. Apparently the Norse 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.240 described meeting people who, um were dressed like monks that 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.800 they had met, So this guy might have come over 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:57.640 and been like, you guys are dressed all wrong here, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.200 we need to church you up. They didn't pillagees well 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.040 as the Europeans did, though in Columbus and the game 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.520 single Irish Monk. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he felt outnumbered. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:11.680 Yeah yeah, Um so if you qualify who what European 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.560 discovered America, there's debate right there. Um, there's evidence that 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.840 the Chinese beat Columbus by seventy years, I should say 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.919 there's some evidence that's highly questionable. And also, by the way, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.400 you can read an article I wrote on the Irish 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.640 Monk and an article I wrote on the Chinese beating 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.360 Columbus wondering you know, all this stuff. Ye did you 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.320 ever hear the Luis cave it on Indian giving? Do 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.520 you want to hear it? It's awesome he's talking about Basically, 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.200 the Indian giving is probably the most offensive thing you 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.440 can say on Earth because it implies that we like, 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.040 they gave us the land and that or we get 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:47.919 and that we wanted it back and they wouldn't give 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:52.080 it back. And uh, he's he's talking about the the 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.840 settlers coming over and saying, can we have everything in 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.120 the Indians said, well, we don't really have We just 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.440 use it and enjoy it and share it. And then 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.600 we started killing everybody and that's like a thing. And 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.120 the Indian says, dude, if this is what have is, 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.440 can we not do that? It's really good. I love 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.919 that guy. He's great. And because Chuck just paraphrased everything 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.000 that's not copyright infringement, no, I don't think so okay, 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.280 So Chuck, we' we've we've clearly ruled out. Christopher Columbus 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:27.239 is the discoverer of North America? Right, um, who did 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.600 discover North America? Though you have to ask this question. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.400 Let's say Columbus comes over, he thinks he's in India 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:36.560 and he shows up and he's like, hey, you guys 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.080 are Indians, but you look a little crazy, you know, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.880 and finally comes to realize that he's not in India, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.559 that he's just discovered this new place. But that immediately 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.880 begs another question that I'm sure it took a little 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.760 while for people to come up with, because they were 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.320 so excited that they just discovered this whole new land 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:59.160 mass an awesome land mask. Yeah, the best land mass, um, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.960 But the question had to eventually come up, like, wait 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.840 a minute, where did these people come from? How did 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.360 they get there? How did they get there? For millennia, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.480 there was a theory, a widely accepted theory in both 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:17.840 the public and scientific lives, um of spontaneous generation. Right 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.640 Like just if you put left meat out too long 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.560 and it started to rot, uh, flies showed up, So 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.200 rotting meat gave rise to flies. The same with moldy grain, 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:35.200 uh giving life to um mice. Generally, people thought that 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.719 there was a life force that could spontaneously produce life, 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:43.360 and that some some inanimate objects were associated with giving 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.200 rise to certain animate objects. Right, And that was the 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.920 case in North America. They I don't know that, right, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.919 but in eighteen sixty four Louis Pasteur definitively proved that 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.720 there was no life force that gave rise to um life, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.440 that if you put a if you sterilized a broth 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.719 and put it in a flask and kept it sterile, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:10.120 life didn't spontaneously originate there. So he definitively disproved it. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.080 So if people did think that the Native Americans in 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.279 North and South America and Central America did spontaneously generate, 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.080 Pasteur approved that that wouldn't have happened. So there's last 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.520 the question where in the name of God did these 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.560 people come from? How long had they been there? That's 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.360 an awesome question. I love this article. I thought it 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.080 was really really interesting. Thanks the Clovis. Well, yes, that 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.040 was the first theory that uh, well, not the first, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.599 but it was widely held for quite a while. Yeah. Um, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.960 actually in the couple first couple of decades. Actually in 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.440 nineteen o six, I believe nineteen o eight, there's a 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.000 terrible flood in southern New Mexico, and uh it killed 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.800 a lot of people, a lot of cattle, which in 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.239 nineteen o eight and southern New Mexico cattle and people 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.359 were on par um. And it also washed up a 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.560 bunch of weird artifacts, a lot of weird um clear 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.760 clearly Indian spearheads, arrowheads, that kind of thing. Was this 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.520 in Clovis. It was near Clovise, Falsome, I believe was 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.839 the first sight that they found. UM. So people started, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.160 you know, kind of collecting these things, and we're got 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:28.120 out that you could find inexplicable or uncommon spearheads, Mexican spearheads, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.560 as it turns out, Yeah, the Clovis Point. Yes, that's 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.800 that's not what it was called. Yet people were just like, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:35.920 look at this crazy thing. That's what I think they 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.320 called it, right. Um. And then over the course of 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.360 the next couple of decades, more and more um archaeological 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:48.040 research was done. A guy named um Ridge Whitman. Yeah, 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.960 and then es name Now he was just a dude 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:55.080 in Mexico. Um, he found uh, one of these very 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:00.479 characteristic spearheads in the bones of a bison. All right, 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.839 So things are starting to come together. The the the 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.920 tipping point is reached, as Malcolm Gladwell will put it, 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.840 would put it in two. When the state of New 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.160 Mexico was digging a highway and they started excavating near 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.800 um Clovis and just found a whole trove of stuff, bones, spearheads, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.960 the whole, the whole shebang. Yeah, it really gave us 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.080 a lot of info. And a guy who was excavating nearby, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.080 Dr Edgar Edgar B. Howard, he was excavating for mammoth 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.560 bones in a cave nearby. We'll see the guy that 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.040 was all mad because they moved the spear points. That 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.560 was a different guy that had happened about ten years earlier. 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.400 You tell them about that because that's significant, kind of 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.760 like it demonstrates the mentality that's going on at the time. Yeah, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.280 they found some spear points and I guess they picked 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.720 it up or something, which is like a crime scene. 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.000 You're not supposed touch anything, evidently, and he came up 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.960 on the scene and he started, you know, he pitched 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.680 hissy fit. Because it's out of context now, it doesn't 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.000 really tell us that much. It was and and pretty 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.800 much the guy who ruled on whether or not um 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.520 archaeological evidence was archaeological evidence. I can't remember his name, 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.400 but he worked for this Smithsonian as a physical anthropologist. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.480 He said, sorry, they touched it. I didn't see it. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.600 It could have been placed there. I'm not accepting it, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:19.960 but they found something later and left it intact right 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.760 right years later? Yeah, then this is this is when 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.840 all of it starts to take off in nineteen thirty two, right. So, 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.640 all of a sudden they figure out that this, these 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.640 spear points have never been seen before anywhere else. They 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.200 have no idea where these things came from. They just 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.880 knew they were very, very old because like the bison 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.760 bones that they were found within, it was an extinct 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.720 bison and had been an extinct about some thousand years. 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:45.880 All of a sudden, it's becoming clear that these people 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.679 pre date any settlement that we'd been aware of or 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:54.400 known as Native American or Paleo Indians. Look at you, Yeah, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.080 well I have a minor in anthropology, of course. Um. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.160 And so all of a sudden people are saying, okay, well, 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.200 these Clovis were the first Americans. And in the fifties 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:10.960 when radio radiocarbon dating came about, that that proved definitively 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.280 that these people were old as old as you would think. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.040 Eleven thousand two years ago is what they dated at. Yeah, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.400 and how do you do that? Chuck with radiocarbon dating. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.200 All right, Well, what they do is they actually take 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.160 soil samples, right, and the soil strategy. Right, they measured 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.600 that the age of the carbon isotopes sea fort teen 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.319 carbon isotopes present in the soil around the artifact, right, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.360 And the artifacts have to be laid out in a 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.640 certain way, like there can't be evidence that it was 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:45.440 buried humans when we make a camp or when we 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.720 did twelve thousand and ten thousand years ago, when we 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.760 made a camp and just left it, they were very 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.880 telltale signs, right, So things weren't buried, they're just kind 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.520 of laid about what was going on there when they 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.720 were extinct or whatever. So if there, if that's how 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.680 this site is presented, then you can measure the soil 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.440 and say, okay, well the carbon isotopes in the soil 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.400 are eleven thousand years old. That means that this site 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.360 was above ground and just left eleven thousand years ago. Right. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.720 So that proved that the Clovis were around eleven thousand 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.319 two years ago, right, yes, which is old and definitely 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.520 pre Native American. So how did they get here? Well, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.400 the Clovis first camp, which was it sounds to me 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.439 like they're a very angry bunch of people. They eventually, 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.360 at least they came to be called the Clovis Police. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:39.880 Ye like that name, yea? Or what was the I 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.920 wonder if the Clovis, New Mexico Police like it, but 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.360 they're like, that's us or the Clovis Barrier. They created 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.760 this Clovis Barrier. Basically, anybody who had any other competing 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.439 theory or idea was an idiot, and they had lockdown 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.080 on on the academic view of the origin of life 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.960 in North America. So, getting back to your question, where 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:03.640 did they come from and how did they get there? 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.880 The general theory was that they basically walked during the 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.560 middle of the ice Age, which I can't imagine living 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.360 during an ice age? Could you imagine? Like crossing the 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.559 Bearing was it called the Bearing Straight Bridge, the Bearing 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.360 Land Bridge, the Bearing Land Bridge? How they got here supposedly, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.800 which is only about a mile wide and is now 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.040 beneath the ocean of the Bearing Straight and that that's 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.720 how they migrated from Siberia to I guess what would 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.040 be like Canada in Alaska in Alaska and then found 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.959 their way down to eventually the southeastern United States and 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.880 because of that um, so they walked here. There was 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.880 actually a very very brief as far as the timeline 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.920 of history goes, there's a very brief moment in history 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.880 where the bearing Land Bridge was exposed and where the 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.600 Laurentide ice sheet that covers like northern Canada and Alaska 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.360 did at the time was receided enough to to allow 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.960 passage between it and a nearby glacier. Can you imagine 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.280 how scary that was? Though? I imagine it was kind 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.000 of scary, but it was only a mile wide. Though, 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.640 it's not like it wasn't a pleasure walk. It wasn't 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.839 a stroll. No. But and and you raise a good 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.520 question like why would you do that? Why? Food? Food, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.120 Mastodon baby, your favorite band, the cloth mastodon and the 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.280 wooly mammoth. That was the theory is that they were 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.240 dependent and on these animals as they're one of their 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.920 soul sources of meat. I guess right. It was very 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.520 clear based just on their spear points in their arrowheads. 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.720 The clothes were extremely advanced big game hunters. Yeah, they 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.120 were hafted, which I had to look that up. It's 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.839 actually when they attach um something to a handle. So 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.680 it's either attached to a bow or a spear shaft, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.719 axe handle, and that means you can throw it, yes, 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.719 or shoot it, which is how you need to kill 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.400 a mammoth. You can't just walk up to it and 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.160 stab it. You also need a lot of coordination, planning, 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.240 cooperation to take down a mammoth, the mastodon, or one 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.199 of these extinct bison. And also I read um the 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.920 point was made like they were definitely big game hunters, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.200 but they they would take small game two or medium 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.120 sized game like deer, antelope or whatever. That's what I wondered, 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:14.839 because they've made a big point about the fact that 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.640 one of the reasons they may have become extinct was 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.160 that the mammoth and masodon were over overhunted. Chuck, you 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:28.920 have just brought everything to the four the Pleistocene overkill hypothesis. Yes, Chuck, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.040 what this is and this is one of the reasons 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:36.680 why the Clovis barrier was so supported and so able 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.719 to just lock down academia. Um, it was because it 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:46.319 it was a cautionary tale about ecological collapse. Right, But 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.600 I just I don't get that not every animal. They 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.319 couldn't have overhunted every animal just because they overhunted the 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.679 masodon in the mammoth, why not skip down to the 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.839 lower smaller animals. That's that's an excellent point. That's something 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.360 that that's that's a quite and that hasn't been satisfied 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.840 by or wasn't satisfied by the Clovis police. They basically 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.240 were saying, the Clovis came down from they came across 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.640 the land bridge from Siberia down through North America, got 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.559 to the Great Plains, over hunted the masted on the bison, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:19.440 and followed them around and um kill them off and 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.000 eventually that led to the the extinction of their own kind. 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.760 Because the what's really interesting and curious about the Clovis 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.000 is they appear out of nowhere in North America and 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.320 actually like South and eastern North America and clearly New Mexico. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.800 And over the period of five years, they pop up 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.440 out of nowhere and they disappear into the ether. They 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.440 just show up and they're gone. There's no evidence of 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.400 any technology leading up to them, like you can't see 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.040 a progression of fluted spearheads that show like these people 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.520 are figuring out how to make the Clovis point. And 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.600 then you don't see any refining of it or continuation 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.520 of it after this five year period. So these people 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.800 like if you're if you're looking at it just on 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.280 the timeline of history and archaeologically, they pop up in 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.200 the middle of North America out of nowhere and then 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.320 just disappear. Pretty cool. Yeah, I mean maybe they were alien. 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.600 It's entirely possible. There was another theory though about why 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.720 they may have vanished, the Clovis comment theory. It's also 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.360 called the Younger Driest impact event. And this is just 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.360 a few years old. Um. Some people theorized that a 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.720 comet exploded above the Earth's atmosphere around the Great Lakes 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:36.520 and basically caught most of North America on fire, sweet 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.560 and not only killed the mastodon in the Mammoth, but 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.280 the Clovis. And there's a little bit of evidence of this. 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.840 They found a charred, carbon rich layer of soil at 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.640 fifty different Clovis age sites, and it contained a bunch 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.400 of unusual stuff in it that they interpreted as like 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.680 an impact event. Is that the scientific term for that stuff? 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:02.200 And unusual materials? Yeah, like like what unusual materials? Don't 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:03.840 ask me that? Like stuff that you would find in 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.600 a comet. Uh, stuff that would indicate there was an 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.760 impact event. I guess, like a meteor impact landing stuff 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.240 like that. That's awesome, but that's been refuted to Like, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.760 you know, that's why I love all this stuff. There's 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.640 all these theories that makes sense, and then some other 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.240 person comes along and pokes holes in it, and then 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.880 you're back at square one. All right. So, but that's 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.400 not how it went with the Clovis barrier. Like it 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.600 was fact, as far as anybody was concerned, you had 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.800 radio carbon dating, you had um no other evidence of 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:37.240 of any earlier settlement in North in the America's at all, um, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.080 and any anybody who put forth a hypothesis other than 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.440 that with pooh pooed. And they were very successful at 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.000 controlling the origin of life in North America or in 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.240 the America's for several decades, and then they gave it 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:57.320 up and became scientologists, right yeah, um, until that was 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.200 the beginning of the end of the Clovis first the Yeah, sadly, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.639 maybe maybe not, because really the whole reason that you're looking, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.879 the whole reason you're spending decades excavating a single site, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.440 is to find out the truth like, we have to 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.360 know who is first, We have to know See I'm 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.760 not I'm not in that camp. I know you made 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.760 a point your article. That's not really that important. Who 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:21.880 was first? Is that? It wasn't that just like such 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:28.320 a hippie end liked it though. It's like afterwards, yeah, 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.760 we should respect the Clovis man just because they weren't first. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.920 They gave us the halted fluted spear. Yeah. I was 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.800 listening to uh hands across America the whole time I 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.600 was writing this. So are we going to down south? 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:44.800 Let's go down south, chuck to Monte Bade. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.240 that wasn't well. One of the early theories of the 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.320 Clovis is that they migrated from south to north. No, 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.520 north to south. They came down originally, but didn't didn't. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.280 They later go on to say, but wait, it looks 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.120 like they went from south to north. That's what Monte 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.400 Verity did. There was a University of Kentucky arch ologist 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.080 named Tom Delahey who dedicated uh twenty five years of 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.560 his life to a single settlement in Chili outside of 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.040 Monteverde Chili. What a loser, But this guy managed to 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:18.400 quietly and methodically destroy the Clovis first theory. And even better, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.680 he brought the Clovis police down to Chili after he 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:27.080 presented his final findings and said, yeah they were. That 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:28.960 was a sad day for the Clovist police, I think 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.840 it was. And to turn in their badges and their 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.040 uniforms and their little billy clubs. They all retired and 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.800 went fishing in Florida. So what happened, Chuck? What did 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.360 what did de la Haye find in monte Verda. Well, 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:44.320 he found, uh, he found he found that predated him. 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.680 Irrefutable evidence is another way to put it. Well, that's 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.080 the non cursing way to put it. So you want 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.639 to know what they found? Yes, they found hers of 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.440 wood with knotted strings attached, which was no accident. It 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.199 meant that a human being uh tied some string around it. Well, 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.800 not only that, they also found um left over, masted 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.560 on flesh preserved. This is what mont Inverty is just so, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.640 this is how archaeology advances by leaps and bounds by accident. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.159 Mont Inverty um the site is a bog um, and 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:23.080 it actually preserved. This would string masted on flesh preserved 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:30.440 it beautifully. Um because it's an oxygen depleted environment and 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.760 it was twelve thousand, five years old. That's what radiocarbon 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.639 dating showed. So first of all, you have the fact that, um, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:42.560 it's clearly these hearts, these um, the nodded string, all 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.680 this stuff. It was clearly presented in a way that 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.160 this was a settlement. It was a camp. They estimated 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.240 it housed like people. Um, even like the tent pegs 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.480 are left in the ground. That's pretty cool. So it 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.160 wasn't buried, right, it was just left. And then when 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.000 the radiocarbon dating proved that, yeah, it was twelve years old, 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.320 so they had a good millennium on the Clovis. It 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.040 still doesn't answer how they got there. No, it doesn't. 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.040 As a matter of fact, it raises even more questions 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.560 because what what the Clovis police said was well, okay, 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.960 that's fine, that's fine, we'll give you monte verity jerk. 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.000 Here here's the This is one thing that was never 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.160 addressed with the Clovis by the Clovis police is why 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.280 weren't there any evidence of Clovis settlements along the way 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:33.719 from uh Siberia to Canada Alaska the Great Planes. There 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.000 aren't any because if you come across. If you come 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.440 down Alaska and Canada into North America, you had the 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.160 Great Plains and brother, there was really good hunting around 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.120 there ten thousand years ago. You're gonna have campsites, You're 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.399 going to have some evidence. There was nothing like we 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:53.560 said that. It is totally possible. I think that's how 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.560 the Clovis first theory was able to stand for so long, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.080 is because maybe we just haven't found it yet. Whatever. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.080 But this monte verity theory turns it on its ear 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.520 because instead of from north to south, it suggests they 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.280 went from south to north and it was years older. Yes, 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.119 but I like your theory of how they got here. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.879 It's not a theory. It's not my theory. It's a 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.600 it's a hypothesis that other people have suggested as well. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.800 Because the same thing happened uh in Australia, right, yeah, 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.840 well possibly, Uh think about it. Australia has been a continent, 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:31.800 unattached continent for fifty million years. Uh. They believe archaeologists 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:37.680 anthropologists believe that um, the Aborigines in Australia got there 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.680 about sixty thousand years ago, which means they would have 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.080 had to have parachuted in or come by boat or swam. Yeah. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.280 I think boats there most plausible, and islands along the 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.720 way that you could stage and uh, you can island 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.600 hop over there. I mean, there's some pretty horrible journeys 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.320 along the way, but it's entirely possible. And the theory 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:57.920 is that that could have the same thing could have 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.000 happened to the the folks in mont ver day it's 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.280 true or the other. The other way to look at 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:04.960 it is there's a lot of people who still believe 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.240 that they came from the north to south migration pattern, 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:10.919 but that they just came a lot earlier, so they 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.840 went north to south and then back up. Okay, that 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:19.200 makes sense, it does. Um. The fly in that ointment 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.760 is this there's another site found at Monte Verity that 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.560 is being excavated. Now I'm pretty sure delah Haye was like, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:27.480 I'm out, I'm out, I did my thing where you 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.560 guys take this over. Yeah, but they found another camp 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:36.000 nearby or evidence of more human activity nearby that's dated 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.440 to about thirty thirty three thousand years ago, which turns 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.560 this on it here. Yes, so does that hold to 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.080 the theory of the waves of migration that you were 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.800 talking about in the article. Um, I don't know. I 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.080 don't know. I think that I've also heard there's a 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.399 lot of um archaeological sites that are under water right now. 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.120 They're sure because you know, once the ice ages ended, 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.359 the water levels rose, and who knows, what's you know 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.439 underwater along our coasts and there could be definitive evidence 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.240 that they came by boat. We have no idea. Ultimately, 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.360