1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Hi everyone. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: It's me James today and I'm joined by Glen Pyle, 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: who's a professor of molecular cardiology and a member of 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: the IMPART Network at Dalhousie Medicine. 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Glenn, thank you so much for joining us. 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 2: Can you is there is there anything I missed out 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: first of all in your bio there that might be 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: relevant for people. 9 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 3: No, I think that's a short and sweet I don't 10 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 3: need all the details for. 11 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: Sure, Thank you. 12 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 3: Yeah. 13 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: So, what we're here to talk about today is these 14 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: sudden the phenomenal I suppose of sudden cardiac arrest specifically 15 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: like in young people and young athletes, because as many 16 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: of you will have been aware, this has been increasingly 17 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: an area in which anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: been trying to leverage what is an unfortunate but not 19 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: unprecedented cardiac arrest, like in this case, most recently Bronnie James, 20 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: but it has happened before in the number of sports, 21 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: and they've been trying to leverage us as of quote 22 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: unquote like prove for evidence that the vaccines are killing 23 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: otherwise healthy young people, which is nonsense. And I can 24 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: tell you it's nonsense. But someone who can tell you 25 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: from much more informed perspective is Glenn. So Glenn, can 26 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 2: we start out by maybe talking about like how common 27 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: this sudden cardiac arrest in young athletes is and what 28 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: we might what hypothetes we might have to what caused it. 29 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, we look more broadly, 30 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: it's very common. I'm from Canada and we have about 31 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: thirty five thousand of these every year within young athletes. 32 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 3: The data out of the US says that about two 33 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 3: thousand die every year from sudden cardiac arrest, and two 34 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: thirds of these young people do so during some sort 35 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: of exercise or sporting event. So in the grand scheme 36 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: of things, when you have a country of several hundred 37 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 3: million people, a thousand or so that's like that is 38 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: but proportion relatively small. But we've known about this for 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: a long time and these numbers actually really haven't changed 40 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: very much in decades. 41 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: Okay, So yeah, there's obviously been a particularly increase due 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 2: to COVID vaccinations, because they're unrelated. I wonder actually it's evidence. 43 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: I think I've read some stuff that having COVID or 44 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: having had COVID multiple times might increase your risk for 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: cardiac arrest. 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: Is that true? 47 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so broadly, So they haven't looked specifically at cardiac 48 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: arrests because cardiac arrests typically is in a lot of 49 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: times the end result of a number of different conditions 50 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 3: of cardiac arrhythmias are known to be increased. A patone 51 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 3: study showed that. But I guess the year and a 52 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 3: half ago by now, certainly early in the pandemic, one 53 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: of the first signs we were seeing people who are 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 3: being infected were having heart attacks, developing heart failure, these things, 55 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 3: and in cardiac arrest the most common cause or cardiac 56 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: are with Yes, the tone study showed And every time 57 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: I talk about this, I have to go back and 58 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: look because the increase was several hundredfold after COVID, and 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: so I have never really seen anything like that before. 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 3: So arrhythmias are relatively common in terms in the world 61 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 3: of cardiovascular disease, and the fact that COVID the infection, 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: actually increases it. But the vaccines do not means that 63 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: the risk for some cardiac death really would be highest 64 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: amongst those who are infected, not those who get vaccines. 65 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: Okay, do you know offhand if like when we have 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: that maybe this was too early in the pandemic to 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: tell like that that risk that comes with having COVID 68 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: right for having rhythmia afterwards, is that risk mitigated by 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: if you're vaccinated and then you get COVID. 70 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: So yes, there's been some more recent studies because obviously 71 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 3: early in the pandemic, when we didn't have the vaccines, 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: we couldn't answer that. And then early after vaccines were 73 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: looking at things like infections, and some of these cardiac 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: issues may not arise until even after the infection is clear. 75 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 3: So we see that in people with long COVID, for example, 76 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 3: krdiac issues are most common. And so we've seen in 77 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: some recent studies that people who are didn't even what 78 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: they described as partially vaccinated, so one or two doses, 79 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 3: had a reduced risk of what we call MACE, which 80 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: is a major adverse cardiovascular event. And so that's an 81 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 3: all encompassing term, which would be things like stroke, heart attack, 82 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 3: you know, things things like that, those major cardiac events. 83 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 3: That's data has come out earlier this year, within the 84 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: last year, a couple of studies. 85 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: Okay, so circling back to those cardiac arrests and I 86 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: guess wrote more broadly at cardiac issues in young people 87 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: and fitting young athletes. It's something I'm familiar with with 88 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: a background in cycling. Like I've known people die of 89 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: cardiac arrests who otherwise extremely fit. No, I wouldn't necessarily 90 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: say like sometimes being fit and being healthy are not 91 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: the same thing. Certainly the very like point to end 92 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: of indurance sport. I think the fittest people are not 93 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: necessarily the healthiest, but very fit sometimes very healthy people 94 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: have friends of mine have had these issues. Is in 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 2: those cases we might not know? I don't know is 96 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: being an athlete like increasing someone's chance of having those 97 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: cardiac arrests or is it that they have some kind 98 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: of pre existing condition that's just that's just been underlying 99 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: for a while. 100 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. What we do know in 101 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 3: this This is all data from pre COVID, so it's 102 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: not something that's been impacted by the panamic or vaccines. 103 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: We do know that the rate of sudden cardiac death 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: and the general population is about one in one hundred thousand, 105 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 3: and that in athletes, which is a very broad term, 106 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: and we can get into that. How to we do 107 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: find an athlete and things like that is anywhere from 108 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 3: two to four times the rate that that's groups of 109 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: athletes subsections are actually higher, so we know the radius 110 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: higher in these athletes, typically these high performance athletes. You 111 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: know why that is, It's an interesting question. It could 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 3: be the training, for example, puts a stressor on them. 113 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: So they may have a pre existing condition. They may 114 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: have a cardiac orithm of like long QT syndrome or 115 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 3: even something called hypertrophic cardiomopathy. Sometimes they know about it 116 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: and sometimes they don't, and then the training on top 117 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: is enough of a trigger. So one of the examples 118 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: I use in my class is Anthony Evenlows, a soccer player. 119 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 3: I believe it was in the Netherlands. He was playing. 120 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: He had a known cardiovascular condition, so he had what's 121 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: called it ICD or on planet cardiodefibrillator while he was playing, 122 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: and he suffered some cardiac death on the on the field. 123 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: There's actually video of it, and that shocked him back 124 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: into rhythm. So you know, some of these people may 125 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: not know and discover in the course of training, and 126 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: some may know and opt to take that risk anyway, 127 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: and then it's the training that or the competition that 128 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: brings it out. 129 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. 130 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: I have a very good friend with ICD and it's 131 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: certainly been at the end of a very difficult process 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: for him to have that, and that involved lots of 133 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: lifestyle changes. And so when we let's what exactly is 134 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: an athlete in these studies, like, is that somebody goes 135 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: to gym twice a week? Is it someone putting in 136 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: twenty hours on the bike, like what? 137 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 3: So, most of the studies that we're talking about, so 138 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: I assume we're not talking about the people who are 139 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: claiming that the vaccines are to athletes because they have 140 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: a very different definition. I can talk about that most 141 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 3: of these studies that we're dealing with, where we get 142 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 3: these rates that are two to four times higher than 143 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 3: the general population or what they refer to as competitive athletes. 144 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: So for people in the US, these would be your 145 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: NCAAA or college athletes. Some of them are professional athletes, 146 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: you know, soccer players and the you know, the British 147 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: League and things like that. So these are people who 148 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: play at a at a competitive level. Oftentimes they're they're 149 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: making a living. I mean, you can argue whether college 150 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: athletes are making a living out of this, but there's 151 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 3: there's some high level of competition in these athletes. That's 152 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: generally the people that were that these studies are based on, 153 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 3: not the guy who goes to the gym twice a 154 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: week or something like that. 155 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, so fairly elite. 156 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: And what is it that you were saying that's different 157 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: from the claims that these anti vax people or vaccine 158 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: skeptics or whatever, you know, people who want to say 159 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: that vaccines are getting people which isn't true. What sort 160 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: of the definition that they're using or what's the claim 161 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: that they're making. 162 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: I guess, well, they really don't have a definition, is 163 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: the problem. So they'll use the term athletes. And I 164 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: think most people, you know, maybe maybe you don't see 165 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: an athlete as necessarily being a college or professional level. 166 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 3: It could be like a high school athlete who's competing 167 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 3: you know, once or twice a week or whatever. And 168 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: that's that's fair. But when you look at the lists 169 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: that they have, I mean, I've talked about this recently 170 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 3: and the Died Suddenly movie documentary, whatever you want to 171 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 3: call it. The list of people that they have on there. 172 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: For example, they have musicians, they have a Thai princess 173 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 3: on the princess from Thailand on there, and they also 174 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: have people who died of cancer, someone who got an 175 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: eye injury. So I'm not really sure, first of all, 176 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: what their definition of athlete is. I'm not sure what 177 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: their definition of sudden cardiac death is. When you have 178 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: people dying of cancer or suffering an eye injury like that, 179 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: those are not related at all. There was an earlier list. 180 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 3: I think it's related to the Good Sciencing. I wrote 181 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 3: about this probably a year or so ago. I went 182 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: through the list of people that they had on at 183 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: the time. There was about one hundred, just a little 184 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 3: over one hundred people that they claimed and died. There 185 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 3: were soccer referees on there. There were retired athletes, there 186 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: were people. One guy was out for a hike he 187 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: was listed there. Now, you could argue a soccer referee 188 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: is athletic, certainly, you know, running around the pitch and 189 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: doing that. I could see that. But that person died 190 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 3: at home in their sleep, not in competition. The retired 191 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 3: soccer player had been retired for six or seven years. 192 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: So even in the cases where they have athletes, they're 193 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 3: really stretching what we would define as an athlete. 194 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I wonder is it data to show that, 195 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: like overall mortality is lower in people who are vaccinated 196 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: than unvaccinated, Like that exists yet? 197 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's what some of these studies that I 198 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: talked about that were done earlier this this year, there 199 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: was a it was a Jack study the journal American 200 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: College of Cardiology showed that even people who are partially vaccinated, 201 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: there's a reduction in these cardivocular complications. And the Gama 202 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 3: study which was done earlier specifically focused on am I. 203 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: So the heart attacks at cute my cardinal functions and 204 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 3: stroke also lower risk. 205 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: You were saying earlier that there might be some sports 206 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: that that had even higher rates than those those ones 207 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: you mentioned overall for athletes. 208 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: What sport to those? 209 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the one that's bit'sman raised recently is basketball. 210 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: They were at least in some of these studies done 211 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 3: in the US, much higher than other sports. Yeah. So, 212 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, basketball is can be an aerobic 213 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 3: event and that you're running back and forth, you know, 214 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: up and down the court quite frequently, but it's punctuated 215 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: by these bursts of of you know, sprints and things 216 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: like that, which some have speculated that might kind of 217 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: be the issue, right, that you don't settle into just 218 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: a simple rhythm. I'll say simple rhythm, like you know, 219 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: like riding a bike is. It's not it's obviously simple 220 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: as as you describe it, but at least potentially there 221 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 3: there's periods of time when you can sort of get 222 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 3: into a rhythm and stay there. And here it's it's 223 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: rest periods punctuated by these rapid bursts. And so there's 224 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,359 Speaker 3: the possibility that that may be related. 225 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 2: There, okay, and so that that might be why that 226 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: there are higher death rates to there. 227 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: It's possible. Yeah, they're not sure why these things happen 228 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: to specific. 229 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: Sports, Okay. 230 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: Our our friends in the anti vax community show in 231 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: their own minds why these happened, Like do they have 232 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: some kind of hypothesis they're advancing. 233 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 3: Uh no, So that's a good point. They'll say it's 234 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: the spike protein. I'm sure I've heard that race before, 235 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: but they don't really explain beyond that. It's interesting about 236 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: the spike protein in the vaccines, as it's been modified 237 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 3: to not be active, and so you have the spike 238 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 3: protein in the virus which causes injury and yet they 239 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 3: don't seem to, you know, acknowledge that that could cause 240 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: these these issues. And yet the spike protein in the vaccine, 241 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: which has been designed to limit that injury, somehow overcomes 242 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: that and actually causes the injury that's not associated with 243 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: the the infect like, like not that it makes sense, right, 244 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 3: You have to work live in these parallel worlds that 245 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 3: don't don't ever. 246 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: Mix, right, Yeah, so they yeah, they're suggesting that this protein, 247 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: which is a modified version of the one that's already 248 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: in the virus but it's non harmful with one of 249 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,359 Speaker 2: the virus, is harmful. It's because of the modification. 250 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Certainly a good number of people who don't like 251 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 3: the vaccines also claim that covid itself is really not 252 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: much of a threat. And then so again I don't, 253 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 3: I don't. I don't see how they can reconcile these 254 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 3: these points, right, especially when you're arguing about the same protein, 255 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: one of which has been modified to be less active, 256 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: and yet you're saying the less active one is actually 257 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: more dangerous than it Just doesn't make. 258 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: Any sense, right, Yeah, And I think it's kind of 259 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: not Uh. People may be come to it with with 260 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: a sort of predetermined desire to conclude that the vaccine 261 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: is dangerous, and I wonder, like I'm familiar with exerting 262 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: cardiac death from my time cycling, and I remember in 263 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: the early two thousands, there was this idea that people 264 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: were dying because their blood had turned like quote I'm 265 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: quoting from like newspaper articles at the time, too treacle 266 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: and had become so thick that their heart couldn't pump 267 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: it anymore, and that this was causing people to die, 268 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: and the reason that they died was because they were 269 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: taking excessive amounts of blood boosters like EPO or exog 270 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: a CPO, and so I this wasn't true, at least 271 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: to my knowledge. I don't think any of these people 272 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: had tested positive. None of them had like autopsies that 273 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: suggested that this is why they had died. But it 274 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: seems to me that there's this natural desire to try 275 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: and explain away these deaths of what people who are 276 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: at the peak of their physical lives right people in 277 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: their in their teens and twenties, are extremely fit, who 278 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: we can see doing amazing things, and doesn't sort of 279 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: line up for us when they die. It doesn't end 280 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: up with what we think a healthy person is, and 281 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: what we think a cardiac patient is, and and and 282 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: so it seems to me that we create these explanations. 283 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: Is that something you've seen in other areas before the 284 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: COVID vaccine without either sort of conspiracies or just ways 285 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: to try and explain this away. 286 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: I don't know about conspiracy. I mean I think people 287 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: understandably have a hard time reconciling what you just said. Right, 288 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 3: you have belite cyclists or whatever sport it is. I mean, 289 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: cycling is good because aerobically they have to be very fit, 290 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: and then they die potentially of a cardiac condition. Right, 291 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: So that makes no sense, you know. So the easiest thing, 292 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: like you said, is to well, they must be doping, 293 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: they must be taking steroids and you know, something that's 294 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: going to harm your body. And so that has to 295 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: be the explanation because it's it's it's easy. That's a 296 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: simple way to get to this. The reality is that 297 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 3: a good number of these people have underlying cardiac conditions. 298 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: Not again, I don't necessarily mean a lot of cyclists 299 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,239 Speaker 3: have that. What I mean is the people who have 300 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: these sudden cardiac deaths have undiagnosed cardiac conditions long QT. 301 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 3: There's a condition called CPVT, you know, something like that, 302 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 3: and so they're relatively i'll say benign. CPVT isn't necessarily 303 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 3: but it's triggered. These things are triggered by stressful events 304 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 3: like exercise and things like that. And so they may 305 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: live a good part of their life in it to 306 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 3: be in our seemingly in good health, and then the 307 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: first sign for any of these people is death. That's 308 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: the real challenge in dealing with with these these cases 309 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 3: that lead to ser cardiac death, because that's the first symptom. 310 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 3: People don't feel tired, they don't you know, have chest 311 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 3: pains like having a heart attack or anything like that. 312 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 3: It's simply something happens. The wiring goes off in the 313 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 3: heart and you put the exercise on top of it, 314 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: and they die. You know, it's not just these athletes. 315 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 3: You'll have somebody who has a change in one of 316 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 3: their genes. They're perfectly fine. Do they live into their 317 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: sixties and then they suddenly die. Well, what allowed them 318 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 3: to live sixty years with you know, no symptoms. We 319 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: don't really know. But it's not uncommon that the first 320 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 3: symptom is death and these people. So your friends there 321 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 3: who you know, it's it's easiest to accuse them of 322 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 3: doping because certainly we a lot of us talked about 323 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 3: it at the time, as I'm sure you know you 324 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: knew about it. There's no secret. So we connect those dots, right, 325 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: we can see that, we can see that, let's connect them. 326 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 3: We can't let's see long QT. So we don't know 327 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 3: what long QT syndrome is. For a lot of people, 328 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 3: it's hard to make that connection when you don't know. 329 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard from the perspective of being Simone's 330 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 2: friend or I can only imagine what it's like for 331 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 2: their families to have this, Like I guess them be 332 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: sort of liblef do they die, you know, or sort 333 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: of a cue of something that they may in many 334 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: cases I don't think did do It must be very 335 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: difficult to deal with that on top of losing someone 336 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: you love. 337 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and we're seeing that again here with the 338 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 3: people who oppose the vaccines, which is either they're assuming 339 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: things or they're speculating on things. And you know, unless 340 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 3: you're in the circle of care, you don't know what's 341 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 3: what's going on. So you know, you talked about Lebron 342 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 3: James on here. You know, does he have an ununderlying condition? 343 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 3: We don't know, and it you know, it's it's really 344 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: not helpful for me to sit here and say, well, 345 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 3: he could have long QT, he could have CpG bet 346 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 3: like here, you know, to speculate like like that. I 347 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 3: can talk about what are some things that lead to 348 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 3: these these conditions generally in people, But I don't know 349 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 3: anything about his health, and so it's not helpful for 350 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 3: me to sit here and speculate on that while his 351 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 3: family and then he himself is trying to you know, 352 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 3: sort to get through that. That's you know, that's I'm 353 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 3: sure that's upsetting for them. So I'm not sure why 354 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 3: people feel the need to do that except to advance 355 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: their own agenda. 356 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, yeah, I think that is the case. So 357 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit about how we can I guess, 358 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: mitigate these risks that exist. I remember when I remember 359 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 2: when you're getting a license in Spain and they make 360 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: you take a cardiac stress test there, like you get 361 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: you ride your bike on a treadmill and they just 362 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: ramp it up until your heart rates in the one 363 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: nineties or whatever. And I don't know what they were doing, 364 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: but they made us I think that may only have 365 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 2: been for like elite athletes, but they made us all 366 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: do that. Is that something where if there was an 367 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 2: underlying one of these underlying risk factors that you mentioned, 368 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: would would it be spotted on a test like that? 369 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a little bit of a controversial area. So 370 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 3: I noticed you said in Spain. In Europe, the consensus 371 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: is that athletes need to go through these what we 372 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 3: called pre screening. So you were probably yeah, probably had 373 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 3: electrodes on your body. Yeah, yeah, And so that's a simple, 374 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: non evasive test, and so you're right because some things 375 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 3: you can pick up just rest, but some of these 376 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 3: things don't appear until you stress the individual, and so 377 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: they'll look for rhythm problems. The other test is what 378 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: we call eco cardiography, which is basically an ultrasound of 379 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 3: the heart, and there you can look at function, but 380 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: you can also look at structure. Because there's a condition 381 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 3: called hypertrophic cardiomopathy. It's relatively common in athletes, it's more 382 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: common there, and that accounts for about fifty percent of 383 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: these sudden cardiac deaths, and so you can pick that 384 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 3: up on an ECG but you can also pick it 385 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 3: up using ultrasounds. So if you scan the heart you 386 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 3: see that it's very large, that would be a diagnosis. 387 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 3: So first in Europe they do that. In North America 388 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 3: and Canada and the United States they do not. The 389 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: concern is there's a couple of concerns. One is the price, 390 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: so you can you're screening large numbers of athletes to 391 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 3: pick out a relative small number who may be affected. 392 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: It's crude, but that is an argument that people make. 393 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: So I guess the question comes down to how much 394 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: is life worth to you and how much do you 395 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 3: want to spend. So there is that, But there is 396 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: another issue, which is what they call false positives. So 397 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 3: you know, had you been diagnosed as having a condition, 398 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 3: that you maybe pulled out of training for a little 399 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 3: while while they do more tests and stuff like that, 400 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 3: that could be very stressful on you. And so the 401 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: view in North America's there's an unacceptably high number of 402 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: those false positives and so they feel that it's not 403 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: worth worth doing. The other issue, so I'm not sure 404 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: when did you do this screening. Was it like twenty. 405 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: Years or no, ten years ago? Probably like twenty ten. 406 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, So so one of the issues that we have 407 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 3: is when you have these high performance athletes, their hearts change, 408 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 3: they get bigger, they get more efficient, their rhythms change, 409 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 3: and they have conditions that we would pick up on 410 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 3: ACGS and echo that would be considered pathological, right, But 411 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 3: because they're athletes, these are changes that do occur in 412 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 3: athletes as their hearts remodel, and they're not a sign 413 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 3: of disease. Right. If if you took someone who wasn't 414 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 3: highly fit and had so for example, if you screen 415 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 3: someone's heart and you saw that it was very large 416 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 3: and they didn't exercise, you might be concerned. But if 417 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: you're you know, an elite cyclist where your heart gets 418 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 3: very big, it's going to be bigger. And so what 419 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: we have struggled with for a number of years is 420 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: what is normal in the athlete that would be considered 421 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: abnormal in the general population. Italy has a really good 422 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 3: job on this, so start going back into the nineteen eighties, 423 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: they started to collect data because that's what we need, right, 424 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 3: we need data from athletes, and they created a huge 425 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 3: database which actually us in my class now to teach 426 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 3: and say, you know, if you have an athlete and 427 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 3: you see these things, these are things we wouldn't be 428 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 3: concerned about, or here's some markers where we might be concerned, 429 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 3: and so we have to look further. And then here's 430 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 3: some things where it doesn't matter whether you're an athlete 431 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: or you know, someone who sits on their couch all day, 432 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 3: that's a problem. But without that data, we didn't we 433 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: didn't have that ability. And so I think the last 434 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 3: time is twenty eighteen. The Europeans updated their criteria. Each 435 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 3: time they update it, you know, we add new things 436 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 3: or modify things that are in there. So you would 437 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: have had abnormal things. You may have had abnormal things 438 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 3: on your ACG that the cardiologists would have looked at 439 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: and said, well, according to our athlete standards, that's okay, 440 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: and we're going to ignore it. And we didn't have 441 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: that until relatively recently. 442 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I do remember. 443 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: I think like having a resting heart rate, which we'd 444 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: be considered like pathologically or like dangerously low with the 445 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: thing would get. 446 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, braid of cardio, so it's called braid of cardio 447 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 3: is obviously very common, right, And I give an example 448 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 3: of my class every year where you know you have 449 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: an athlete, their heart rate can be forty beats for 450 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: a minute. And so I said, you know you would 451 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 3: ignore that, you know the earl elite cyclists. I get that. 452 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 3: And then I give an example where it's a woman 453 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: she's sixty three years old or resting, heart rates forty 454 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 3: two beats a minute, she doesn't do any exercise, and 455 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 3: the physicians are like, oh, she must be very healthy. 456 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, no, that's not normal. And so it turned 457 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 3: out so the reason they flagged her was because she 458 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: kept passing out because she was braid of kartic, and 459 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 3: she eventually broke her nose and she was sent to 460 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 3: the hospital. They did a genetic test and found that 461 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 3: she had a cardiac arrhythmia. Rights So my what I 462 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 3: always teach my students is don't just look at the monitor, 463 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: look at your patient. Right, So when your heart rates 464 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: forty beats a minute and they're cycling away and you know, 465 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: he's like, yeah, that person's very fit, and it's like 466 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 3: when you look and they're eighty years old and they're 467 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 3: passing out, forty beats of minuted is not normal, right, 468 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 3: And so we don't need real high standards for some 469 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: of these things. But some of them we did. 470 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder like people listening will probably be 471 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 2: sufficiently afraid now, but I'm not, hopefully not too afraid. 472 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: But like lots of people these days are monitoring their 473 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: heart rate all the time, right, They have watches, they 474 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: have wristbands when they're exercising, they have chest bands, so 475 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: you can monitor your heart real kinds of bass these stage. 476 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: You can wear a ring. 477 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: Would any of those devices be useful in predicting or 478 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 2: seeing families things? 479 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 3: Not really, only because they're they're very limited. Souse. Great, 480 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 3: people measure their heart rate because it is a general 481 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: sign of health and so good lowering rest lower resting 482 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 3: heart rates very good. And when you're exercising, you want 483 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: to bring your heart rate into certain zones uh to 484 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,239 Speaker 3: have effective workers. So that's all great. So I'm not 485 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 3: trying to discourage people from from doing that. But if 486 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: you want to diagnose long QT syndrome, for example, in somebody, 487 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 3: that requires calculations, So for sure, you need to measure 488 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 3: things very accurately. When I'm sure when you had your 489 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 3: your traits done you would have had multiple electrodes stuck 490 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 3: on your your body, because yeah, we typically do what's 491 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 3: called the twelve lead ECG, and so there's there's multiple 492 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 3: electrodes and they have to be positioned in certain places 493 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 3: in order to measure how the heart basically the heart's 494 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: electricity is flowing in certain directions because that actually tells 495 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 3: us something. So when you have I mean, I have 496 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 3: a device that I use to teach and to illustrate people, 497 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 3: and it's on the back of my cell phone and 498 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 3: they could just you know, you put your fingers on 499 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 3: it and you can you can you can measure things 500 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: and you get an ECG off that. So it looks 501 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 3: really neat and it's great for teaching, But I'm not 502 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 3: going to diagnose somebody with regardless syndrome or long QT 503 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 3: or any of those those things. Those are much more 504 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 3: in depth. It's required much more in depth equipment to do. 505 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 2: Something like that, right, Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like sometimes when 506 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: you ride under electricity pilants, you'll see a heart rate 507 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 2: of two hundred and forty. 508 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: And it will be concerning. 509 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 2: Okay, didn't work out what was connected to it. So 510 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: if these things are occurring, and obviously they occur, it's 511 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: sort of at a certain percentage of young athletes and 512 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: certain percentage anywhere else? Are there ways that these cerdaen 513 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: kadiak risks we could reduce the number of them that 514 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: result in death? 515 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, for sure. So CPR. So the people who 516 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 3: die quite often die because there's there's nobody there to 517 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 3: administer CPR, and so you lose that very valuable time. 518 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: And so people are concerned about, you know, stepping in 519 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 3: and doing something and potentially hurting someone. If someone is 520 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: dead like that, you're not going to hurt them, right, 521 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: So you know, please learn CPR. It's not difficult. They 522 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: can certainly do that. You know. In Canada, abouteen years 523 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: ago now, the Heart instruct Foundation of Canada raised a 524 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: tremendous amount of money to put we call automatic extrungt 525 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: defibrillators or AEDs in public places. I think they put 526 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 3: fifteen thousand of them. Plus companies will buy them for 527 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 3: their o their workplaces and things like that. And so 528 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: if someone goes down and their heart stops, you take 529 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: these things out. There's some patches. It comes with instructions 530 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 3: like it will tell you actually what to do, and 531 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 3: you take it out, you put the patches on the individual, 532 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 3: you step back because it will deliver a shock and 533 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 3: it will automatically shock their heart trying to get it 534 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: back into rhythm. So knowing where those are, I'll say, 535 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 3: knowing how to do them, you don't necessarily need to 536 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 3: practice because it will walk you through it. But at 537 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 3: least knowing where they are and not being afraid to 538 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 3: use them, I think is very important. These quick reactions 539 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 3: in administering care before the paramedics or someone else gets 540 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: there is super important. If you let someone go five 541 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 3: ten minutes without any you know, CPR or anything like that, 542 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,959 Speaker 3: there's a tremendous amount of damage that's done and it 543 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 3: can't be overcome. 544 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, And I think in a lot of places 545 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: in the US, certainly like you can access free CPI 546 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: AED training or your. 547 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: Employee might pay for it. 548 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 2: And I don't do you know any resources people could 549 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: use to find where they can find that free training. 550 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 3: So in the States that the American Heart Association would 551 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 3: be a good place to go, the American Red Crop, 552 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: I'm sure they'll have resources in Canada's Heart and Struck 553 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 3: Foundation of Canada, Saint John's Ambulance, But like you said, 554 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 3: a lot of just you know, local community centers will 555 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: put these things on a couple of times a year, 556 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 3: you know, just so that people are familiar with with 557 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 3: how to do it. Work places will sometimes do it 558 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 3: once or twice a year. Have training a lot of 559 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 3: people to just learn how to how to do it. Yeah, 560 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 3: I'm not sure where people if you just go on 561 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 3: the internet and wherever you are and look for first day, 562 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 3: a lot of times it falls on your first day. 563 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 3: But if you just google your city and CPR, I'm 564 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: sure something will come up. And I bet there's something 565 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 3: this month you could go to nice. 566 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 567 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've spoken before back to stop the league courses 568 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: and have their real set free and easy to exist. 569 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: People could do both of value to be really set 570 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 2: up to help people. Glynn, is there anything else you 571 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: think people ought to know about these sudden sudden kindia 572 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: arrest there sort of with the conspiracy theories around them, 573 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: or anything else they can do to protect themselves through 574 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: other people. 575 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 3: Well, I think there's the perception that that by saying 576 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: that there's not an issue, that it means we don't 577 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: we don't care. In fact, we do care about these 578 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 3: these issues. Like I said, I've taught about this for 579 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: you know, over a decade. I have a background and 580 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: doing some sports medicine work a long time ago. I 581 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 3: certainly have a strong interest in helping these people. When 582 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: we say the risk is not going up, it doesn't 583 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 3: mean that we don't care. And so you know when 584 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: a soccer player, a football player, somebody goes down on 585 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 3: the court, that we just say, well, yeah, it happens. 586 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 3: It's not what we're saying. We're saying we know these 587 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 3: things happen, we do care about them. I would actually 588 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: flip this around the other way and say, some of 589 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 3: these people, the people who I'm talking about, the people 590 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 3: who are profiting off that's not people who are like, 591 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 3: I had no idea this was happening. That's okay, you know, 592 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,479 Speaker 3: not everybody can know everything. But the people who are 593 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 3: saying this is increasing and they're making money off these 594 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 3: things by selling their movies and whatever. Did you not 595 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: care when someone you know died in twenty fifteen because 596 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 3: they were in twenty nineteen, they were dying and kids 597 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 3: were doing it. And if you'd like to come to 598 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 3: my class I and show you, you know, the pictures 599 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 3: of these people because you weren't around then. And I'm wondering, 600 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 3: I'm not really wondering why you're around now? I know 601 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: why they're they're around now. They're profiting off of this, 602 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 3: And so I would actually flip it the other way 603 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 3: and say, you know, have them ask them why is 604 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: this new to them when we've when the data show 605 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 3: this has been happening all. 606 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: Along, right, Yeah, And by encouraging people not to get vaccinated, 607 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 2: they're encouraging it base themselves at a higher risk for 608 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,479 Speaker 2: cardiac issues, right, for presumably a profit motive in some cases, 609 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: which is very sad. Glenn, where can people you do 610 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 2: some excellent threads on Twitter so people can learn a 611 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: lot about heart stuff. There is there anywhere else or 612 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: where do you prefer people to find you? I guess online? 613 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, we do a lot of social media stuff. 614 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 3: There's a lot of I know, people complain about Twitter. 615 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 3: I complain about Twitter, but there's a lot of really Twitter, 616 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 3: a lot of really good people on there who you 617 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 3: know present their information. You know, you can just want 618 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 3: to look for those people there. What I would say 619 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 3: is like, how do you identify who are the good 620 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 3: people who you can trust? The stuff is the people 621 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 3: who are able to be transparent with where they get 622 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 3: their information. Right, So when I say you know, the 623 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 3: vaccines reduced your risk of these major cardiovascular events. I 624 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 3: typically provide a study or something like that to show 625 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 3: where I got that information. The people who are less 626 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 3: trustworthy will say, you know, either go find it yourself 627 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 3: because they don't know, or well, I can see it. 628 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 3: I know what's happening. You know, a lot of these 629 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 3: things are measurable, so we should be able to find those. 630 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 3: A lot of us write on things. I've written for 631 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 3: the Conversation Science two point zero. You know things will 632 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 3: be there. But social media is a good place to 633 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 3: go because you can interact with you and you can 634 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 3: ask those those questions. So yeah, yeah, you can reach 635 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 3: out to me and see who I follow and who 636 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 3: I interact with if if, if you're interested in that, 637 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 3: you could take that as a good or a bad sign. 638 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 3: However you you want. 639 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: To take it what you handle on Twitter. 640 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 3: So my handle is Glen g l e n pile 641 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 3: p y l E. I'm also on the sky I 642 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 3: just joined that the other day, so nice. 643 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: Congratulations. Yeah, that's great. 644 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: I think the last point you made is one that 645 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 2: we should maybe pursue another episode on because we the 646 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 2: difference between anecdote and data and like, so there is 647 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: an increasing number I think of people doing things that 648 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 2: look a lot like journal articles, are a lot like 649 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 2: studies that a peer reviewed that are not in trying 650 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: to kind of leverage the credibility of that without actually 651 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: doing peer review science because the stuff they're doing wouldn't 652 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: line up with with peer reviewed science. So it'd be 653 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: interesting to. 654 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 3: Write there, right, Yes, yes, it was a whole episode too. 655 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, next time. Well, thank you so much for 656 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: your time, JN. 657 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 3: Thanks very much, James, I appreciate it. It could happen 658 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 3: here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more 659 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 3: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia 660 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 3: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 661 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 662 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 3: find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at 663 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 3: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.