Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guys. What's up with your Brode with
Speaker 1: the virtual headshake? I'm gonna tell ya something that I
Speaker 1: never told her back. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition of All the Smoke. Jack, what's going
Speaker 1: on my brother? What's up with you? Man? I can't
Speaker 1: call it just enjoying this beautiful California weather is. It's
Speaker 1: still ugly out there. It's not as ugly as it
Speaker 1: was the other day, but sun coming out a little bit,
Speaker 1: but still cool. You got a little bit of hope.
Speaker 1: We got a special guest tonight, very excited. Um, a
Speaker 1: legend in her space. It's an honor to have her tonight.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Cheryl swoops, Cheryl, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm doing great? Like it's such an honor for me
Speaker 1: to be here with you too, because I hear y'all
Speaker 1: get down on this show. Look at my smile, Shayl.
Speaker 1: I'm happy. I'm so happy to see you. I still
Speaker 1: got a bone to pick with you, though this is
Speaker 1: the place to pick it. Go ahead and pick that ship.
Speaker 1: It's not that big to do. But it is like
Speaker 1: like you have my number, but you have to call
Speaker 1: my brother to get me to come on the show
Speaker 1: or actually let me. I'm actually your brother reached out
Speaker 1: to me and we have been talking and it didn't
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with you. Actually we were talking
Speaker 1: about something else and we talked about Then he came
Speaker 1: back and saying, hey, bro, when we gonna get sharer
Speaker 1: on the show? I said, you know what, We're gonna
Speaker 1: make it happen. Well, Matt, you and I can just
Speaker 1: have a conversation and how about that. But I appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys allowing me to be in your space for
Speaker 1: a little bit. We appreciate it. Obviously, very very well decorated.
Speaker 1: M v P four time champ Olympian. The accolades. Go on, um,
Speaker 1: tell me tell us one thing you took from whether
Speaker 1: it be good or bad. Damn um. The life is
Speaker 1: too short, absolutely, I just you know, it's hard to
Speaker 1: just pick one thing. But was a hell of a
Speaker 1: year I think for everybody, And if I had to
Speaker 1: pick one, I would say that life is too short,
Speaker 1: so embrace every moment. Embrace spending time with friends and
Speaker 1: family and loved ones, because you never know when you're
Speaker 1: gonna get that opportunity again. Absolutely. We're just a little
Speaker 1: over a year since Kobe passed, and one of his
Speaker 1: favorite quotes that I love is he said, we all
Speaker 1: make the mistake of thinking we have more time. No,
Speaker 1: you got to be in the moment and enjoy it. Um,
Speaker 1: how is coaching college basketball? Because that's what you're currently doing.
Speaker 1: How difficult has has been during the pandemic. Well, so,
Speaker 1: actually I'm not coaching. No. I was a head coach
Speaker 1: for three years in an assistant in my alma made
Speaker 1: for a year. What I would tell you is I
Speaker 1: found out quickly that that's not my space. I love
Speaker 1: the game. Um. I love being a part of the game.
Speaker 1: I love what the game's done for me. But kids
Speaker 1: today are different just the I mean, their mentality, their
Speaker 1: work ethic. They're so entitled and like you can't seriously
Speaker 1: like you can't coach them. And I just decided that
Speaker 1: wasn't the space for me. I am currently, um actually
Speaker 1: working for Nike, So I'm super excited about that. That's awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna send our shoes sides as soon as the
Speaker 1: interviews over anyway, And if y'all don't have the hook
Speaker 1: up already, okay, Jack Jack Jack Jack has a plug.
Speaker 1: But it's funny you say that because I coached, you know,
Speaker 1: I jumped in after I retired in seventeen, and I
Speaker 1: actually had a few NBA opportunities. Obviously would I have
Speaker 1: had to start at the bottom, but I I passed
Speaker 1: on that too, because to me, there was there is
Speaker 1: a disconnect between the way even we came up and
Speaker 1: the way we approached the game and the way we
Speaker 1: look at the game and the way um, you know,
Speaker 1: these younger athletes do. Now I do coach my my
Speaker 1: twelve year old twins. They're au team. So I got
Speaker 1: them early enough to kind of put some kind of
Speaker 1: structure and discipline. But you know, I've seen these high
Speaker 1: and there's no knock on them. It's just this what
Speaker 1: the world is these days. But there is a definitely
Speaker 1: a sense of entitlement and privilege, and you know, few
Speaker 1: and far between actually have to put the hard work
Speaker 1: in it takes to to get to that next level.
Speaker 1: They expected to be given to him. Well, and you're right,
Speaker 1: like it's not or not but I will say this,
Speaker 1: first of all, how is it coaching your boys? I
Speaker 1: love it. I have a great connection, you know. And
Speaker 1: it's funny too, because Jack has a similar situation where
Speaker 1: he has a kid, but he found that he's better
Speaker 1: off just me and the dad in the support system.
Speaker 1: And I actually liked being in the trenches with my
Speaker 1: kids and teaching them and their friends. But Matt, you
Speaker 1: know what I found is it's different with boys and girls.
Speaker 1: For whatever reason, I grew up, I played for male coaches,
Speaker 1: I played for female coaches, and I was the type
Speaker 1: of player that it didn't really matter if it was
Speaker 1: a male or female. Like I wanted you if I
Speaker 1: wasn't doing my part, I needed to be coached hard.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be coached hard. I didn't mind you
Speaker 1: yelling at me. You know today I say I can't
Speaker 1: coach today because you can't. You can't coach play. You
Speaker 1: can't coach girls like that. I'll say that because I
Speaker 1: have a coach boys. But you can't coach girls that way.
Speaker 1: I hear that. So raised by your mom, brought up
Speaker 1: in Texas, what was your childhood like? What you know
Speaker 1: about Brownfield? Um Man? It was, you know, it was.
Speaker 1: Here's what I'll say now that I'm older, I look
Speaker 1: back on it and say, like, our childhood was tough,
Speaker 1: but when you're going up in it, and that's all
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it is what it is. Like.
Speaker 1: All I saw was my mom busting her ass every
Speaker 1: single day, um to provide for us. And my dad
Speaker 1: was not in the picture. My mom and dad got
Speaker 1: divorced when I was three months old, so I never
Speaker 1: knew my dad. Um, da're you're making me get chucked up.
Speaker 1: I met my dad, you know. I met my dad
Speaker 1: for the very first time when I was thirty years old,
Speaker 1: and there was no emotion because I, you know, like
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know him, and yeah, and so
Speaker 1: he was like, I think expecting something from me as
Speaker 1: far as like being emotional, But I'm like, dude, I
Speaker 1: just met you. I don't I don't know who you are,
Speaker 1: So how can I be emotional with someone that I
Speaker 1: don't know? But what I would tell you is what
Speaker 1: I saw was my mom just God rest her soul.
Speaker 1: My mom passed away three years ago, but I just
Speaker 1: I just saw her work hard. That's all I knew,
Speaker 1: and I know that's what she instilled in me and
Speaker 1: that's where I got it from. Um. And it was
Speaker 1: just one of those things that whatever you gotta do
Speaker 1: to make it happen, you just gotta do it. And
Speaker 1: and that's what I kind of felt about, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like people people out there struggling and
Speaker 1: and suffering and not to mention you know, everything else
Speaker 1: that that even that we as black people have been
Speaker 1: dealing with and are going through, we just you know,
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta get through it. We gotta figure
Speaker 1: it out. How this sports play a role in your
Speaker 1: upbringing and you know, and talk about your sivelers as well.
Speaker 1: So I have two older brothers and a younger brother
Speaker 1: the one that you know you' are having a conversation
Speaker 1: that they had nothing to do about me. So, but
Speaker 1: you know what sports was. Sports was huge in my life. Um.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I grew up with two older brothers
Speaker 1: and the only way my mom would really let me
Speaker 1: leave the house is if I told her I was
Speaker 1: going to go play basketball with my brothers. My mom
Speaker 1: was very, very, very strict, and at the time, I
Speaker 1: was just like, damn, she's just so mean, you know,
Speaker 1: That's what I thought. But looking back, on it. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that she raised me the way she did, um,
Speaker 1: because at any moment, you know, I could have taken
Speaker 1: the wrong turn and ended up being somewhere different, just
Speaker 1: like a lot of my friends were. But you know, sports,
Speaker 1: and I think people talk about this a lot, but
Speaker 1: I think more so for for girls or women. Sports
Speaker 1: was a huge part as far as helping me with
Speaker 1: my with my self confidence, um, and my self esteem.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a very small town. We didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot and you know, people told me all
Speaker 1: the time that I couldn't do something because one because
Speaker 1: of the color of my skin. UM, that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be good enough because I was a girl, because I
Speaker 1: was to this, I was too bad, I wasn't good enough. Um.
Speaker 1: But because I believed in me and I had the
Speaker 1: right people around me, meaning my mom and my brothers, UM,
Speaker 1: it didn't really matter what everybody else said to me
Speaker 1: because I was determined that I was going to be
Speaker 1: successful and prove all those people wrong. And it still
Speaker 1: happens today. It's an ongoing battle. It don't stop just
Speaker 1: because you saying like you guys know that right, you
Speaker 1: guys know that what was your what was your introduction
Speaker 1: to basketball. I started playing ball when I was seven,
Speaker 1: and back then we had what we called and West
Speaker 1: Texas um little dribblers, and I just I knew at
Speaker 1: a very early age, at the age of seven, that
Speaker 1: basketball was was was gonna just change my life. Like
Speaker 1: I knew that there was something about having a basketball,
Speaker 1: dribbling a basketball, and I didn't have to be in
Speaker 1: a gym. I could be in the streets, you know,
Speaker 1: the lights are off. There was something about having a
Speaker 1: basketball in my hands that just made me feel invincible.
Speaker 1: To be very honest with you, and I could never
Speaker 1: find enough girls that were interested in playing the game.
Speaker 1: They were interested in doing so much other stuff, right,
Speaker 1: But you know, I had my brothers and I had
Speaker 1: all the fellows that I grew up with. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. And it's just
Speaker 1: it's so crazy to think about something as simple as
Speaker 1: a ball, as a basketball could give you, that could
Speaker 1: make you feel as as invincible as powerful as I
Speaker 1: felt any time I had a basketball. Absolutely well, you
Speaker 1: just mentioned that not really finding a lot of girls
Speaker 1: that wanted to do the same thing. Who were some
Speaker 1: of the people you looked up to uh, in the
Speaker 1: basketball game because obviously, you know, females weren't on TV
Speaker 1: back then playing basketball, So were you looking up to
Speaker 1: males or were there any female basketball players that you
Speaker 1: had looked up to at that time? Unfortunately, they're like,
Speaker 1: you're right, matth there were no girls. The only time
Speaker 1: I actually realized girls played was the Olympics. UM. I
Speaker 1: never really got a chance to watch the Nancy Lieberman's,
Speaker 1: the Ann Myers, the Lynette Woodard's, um who have done
Speaker 1: incredible things for the women's game. So yeah, like a
Speaker 1: lot of other people out there, m J was. He
Speaker 1: was my dude, Like I was gonna be in front
Speaker 1: of the TV anytime MJ was on TV. I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta watch, I gotta watch. It was
Speaker 1: something about, you know, and it wasn't me watching because
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like him, Like my opinion, nobody
Speaker 1: will ever be like him, but it was there was
Speaker 1: something about the way he played the game and how
Speaker 1: competitive he was and like how tough he was and
Speaker 1: how he walked out there and was like like you
Speaker 1: like the name of your show. It was like, y'all
Speaker 1: don't want one to this. I saw that I saw
Speaker 1: that in him, you know, And I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: like like I want to be that way. I want
Speaker 1: to be good enough where when I walk out on
Speaker 1: the court, I feel that confidence in people, right, Like
Speaker 1: my competition will see me and they're like, damn, here
Speaker 1: comes share all to day. They said, I used to
Speaker 1: see Mike walk on the court and look at other
Speaker 1: players on the court like thanks for buying tickets to
Speaker 1: the show. That's how Mike used to look at But
Speaker 1: interviewing me, but that was a question I would like,
Speaker 1: you guys played with played against like m you know, like,
Speaker 1: how was that? Well? I personally I missed m J
Speaker 1: by a year, So Kobe was my guy, was J.
Speaker 1: But watching the game. Yeah, as far as growing up
Speaker 1: watching the game, I'm a California kid, so I was
Speaker 1: the showtime Matthew Johnson fan, so you know, trying to
Speaker 1: emulate everything he did, and you know, he was him
Speaker 1: and Grant here with the two guys I looked up to. Yeah, similar,
Speaker 1: I grew up with Kobe, So I've seen Kobe a
Speaker 1: lot of growing up. Kobe is the closest thing that
Speaker 1: I've ever seen to Mike. But MJ was somebody always
Speaker 1: looked up to end up playing for him in Charlotte
Speaker 1: and end up, you know, being a part of team Jordan.
Speaker 1: So you know, Jordan is always gonna be everybody's number
Speaker 1: one guy. Back to Basketball's tell me about you. Tell
Speaker 1: me about your high school experience in Texas and how
Speaker 1: much did you put in the game when he was
Speaker 1: in high school? Like how much did you work on
Speaker 1: your game? Texas basketball? Like is I know a lot
Speaker 1: of people say football is a sport in Texas. I
Speaker 1: won't say it's probably even like Texas basketball is serious.
Speaker 1: And again for me because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: it is because of the way I grew up and
Speaker 1: the way my mom raised me. I mean, I could
Speaker 1: not get enough time in the gym and I and
Speaker 1: I knew if I told her or if she knew
Speaker 1: I was in the gym, that was gonna be okay, right,
Speaker 1: But I don't know, It's so crazy when I had
Speaker 1: friends who they were like Cheryl, it's weekend, it's Friday,
Speaker 1: it's Saturday, Like we're going to a party, We're going
Speaker 1: to kick it, We're doing this, we're doing that. You
Speaker 1: want to come? And even though there were times I
Speaker 1: wanted to go, first of all, my mom was not
Speaker 1: having it. Mom was like, Na, you're not doing that.
Speaker 1: And then I was like no, Like I wanted to
Speaker 1: spend the time. I wanted to put the time in,
Speaker 1: you know, Sundays, go to church, come home, eat, change
Speaker 1: of clothes. It was basketball all day. We had outdoor
Speaker 1: courts that we call the Tiger Bowl where we grew up.
Speaker 1: There was me and one other female that played with
Speaker 1: the guys. And I'm talking about like I'm in high
Speaker 1: school and these are these are grown men. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't really playing you know, no nets, we didn't
Speaker 1: have nets on. But it didn't matter, Like that was
Speaker 1: real basketball. And what I think about my my career
Speaker 1: and why I was able to achieve a lot of
Speaker 1: the things I did, Like I always go back to,
Speaker 1: you know, my upbringing and my childhood and and a
Speaker 1: lot of the old heads that I played with, because
Speaker 1: they got me ready. What did you know you was
Speaker 1: going to the next level? And what moment stood out
Speaker 1: to you, you know, to give you that indication he
Speaker 1: was going to the next level. Uh, Like I just
Speaker 1: I always told myself one that basketball would be my
Speaker 1: ticket to to college, and basketball would be my ticket
Speaker 1: to not only change my life, but to change my
Speaker 1: mom's life. And I was very dedicated. This may be bad,
Speaker 1: but I was more dedicated to sports than I was
Speaker 1: to the school. Although I knew I had We all
Speaker 1: did that welcome, Welcome, welcome to the club. But I
Speaker 1: had to make the grade so I couldn't play, you know.
Speaker 1: So there were times where I did just enough to
Speaker 1: get by. Um. As much as I hate sitting here
Speaker 1: saying that, but I did. UM, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think at a very young age, Seriously, if we're being honest,
Speaker 1: I think at a very young age, I knew that
Speaker 1: God had blessed me with a talent that not a
Speaker 1: lot of people had, and it was up to me
Speaker 1: to decide what I was gonna do with that talent.
Speaker 1: So when when the w n b A started, um one,
Speaker 1: I didn't believe it was gonna happen initially, but after
Speaker 1: it did and I signed my very first w n
Speaker 1: b A contract, which wasn't an NBA contract, but my
Speaker 1: I felt like all the hard work, everything I put in,
Speaker 1: all the sacrifices that I made that my mom made, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like finally and now I can go out here and
Speaker 1: I can I can show the world you know what
Speaker 1: who Sheryl Swoops is and and what this game means
Speaker 1: to me. Before getting to the w n B A though,
Speaker 1: what college is talking about your college experience? What colleges
Speaker 1: was that for? Um? I mean a lot um everybody.
Speaker 1: You know. The one school that didn't recruit me was Connecticut.
Speaker 1: I know it was one crazy thing. Here's a crazy thing,
Speaker 1: but back back then, back in the day, Connecticut wasn't
Speaker 1: like the Connecticut there today it was, you know, but
Speaker 1: back then it was the University of Texas, UM Tennessee
Speaker 1: and Tennessee stand here, and being from Texas, you know,
Speaker 1: being from Texas, I was like, oh, no, long Horns,
Speaker 1: it is Longhorns. So I initially signed to go play
Speaker 1: at the University of Texas. I was there for seven
Speaker 1: days and got homesick and didn't like transfer. But what
Speaker 1: I would tell you is it wasn't a thing of
Speaker 1: me calling my mom saying, hey, I'm homesick, I want
Speaker 1: to leave. I called my mom every day, balling boo
Speaker 1: hoo and crying, and she said to me, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you made this decision. And I didn't talk to her
Speaker 1: about it. I just said that the long Horns are
Speaker 1: recruiting me. That's where I'm going. So I called her
Speaker 1: six nights straight, balling boo hoo and saying I want
Speaker 1: to leave, I want to come home. And she said,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, that's not what we do. You made
Speaker 1: the commitment, so you gotta do it. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: until the last day. I called her and I was
Speaker 1: crying hysterically and I said, Mom, I'm leaving, whether you
Speaker 1: want me to or not, I'm out. And she finally
Speaker 1: gave in and said, okay, well baby, come home, and
Speaker 1: um yeah, and so when I laughed, I transfer went
Speaker 1: to Texas Tech and you know, as they say, the
Speaker 1: rest is history. I want a national championship. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I had a similar situation when I was at U
Speaker 1: c l A. I mean, I'm from northern California, so
Speaker 1: I was only an hour plane flight or six hour drive,
Speaker 1: but just leaving home for the first time, it was
Speaker 1: a lot. And although I was in all of I
Speaker 1: was in l A. At U c l A. I
Speaker 1: had the same experience. I was driving home once a week.
Speaker 1: You know, I make the right decision, that's should I
Speaker 1: just go somewhere closer to home, But I ended up
Speaker 1: sticking it out and it was great for me. But
Speaker 1: I definitely remember those early days in college like, damn,
Speaker 1: I'm finding away from home. But do I really want
Speaker 1: to be away from home? I thought I did, right.
Speaker 1: I was eight out in Austin. At Texas, I was
Speaker 1: eight hours away, so and that was my first thought
Speaker 1: was Damn, I just gotta it away from home. And
Speaker 1: when I did it, I was like, I don't really
Speaker 1: think this is for me. So you senior year, like
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you win a national championship at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1: UM score forty seven points in the championship game name
Speaker 1: final for m v P. What was that experience? Like
Speaker 1: party seventh, Lord right and the team ship. They only
Speaker 1: won by two. The game wasn't that close. It was
Speaker 1: one of those games it was. It really wasn't um.
Speaker 1: It was close, but not a two point game. It
Speaker 1: was more like a kid point game. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I had friends who played for Stanford and Tennessee and
Speaker 1: I would always ask them because those were the schools
Speaker 1: that every year, year after year. They were the Connecticuts
Speaker 1: back then, right year after year, either they're gonna win
Speaker 1: it or they're at least going to be at the
Speaker 1: final four and I would always ask them like, what
Speaker 1: does it feel like? How did you do it? What
Speaker 1: you know? And they were like, you have to experience it,
Speaker 1: like I can sit here and tell you, Oh, it's
Speaker 1: such a great feeling. And in my mind I was like,
Speaker 1: but that's just not good. Seriously was I was like,
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. I'll tell you the team I
Speaker 1: played on at Texas Tech, we weren't the most talented team.
Speaker 1: We played a two three zone defense the entire game.
Speaker 1: We weren't very athletic, but we all played our roles
Speaker 1: right like that's how we were able to win. But
Speaker 1: the best by the way they did it was anyway.
Speaker 1: But the best feeling was being able to have my
Speaker 1: mom there and my brothers there and share that moment
Speaker 1: with them, And especially when so many people said, if
Speaker 1: you leave Texas, you'll never win a championship, and growing
Speaker 1: up in the town I grew up, so many people
Speaker 1: doubted that, you know, I would ever be anything and
Speaker 1: or be successful and leave the city. So to be
Speaker 1: able to share that moment with my family was the
Speaker 1: best filling in the world. Winning a national championship is
Speaker 1: it's special. It is so special. I missed it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jack checked out of school, Jack Jack, Jack checked out
Speaker 1: of school in high school. College was never option. It
Speaker 1: was league or nothing. No, I was. I was on
Speaker 1: camp as the whole pers semester that I was on
Speaker 1: and I couldn't pass past the test because I was
Speaker 1: too busy part of it. And they went on to
Speaker 1: win the national championship. You oh, yeah, right, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: but look but you still made it, still made What
Speaker 1: was your basketball experience like post college before the w
Speaker 1: NBA came around. So, Matt, my story is a little
Speaker 1: different than probably a lot of other players if you
Speaker 1: asked them. And and I am a firm believer that
Speaker 1: I say this all the time that God put me
Speaker 1: at the right place at the right time when he
Speaker 1: wanted me there, because when I I'm when when I
Speaker 1: graduated from Texas Tech, I went to Italy, but I
Speaker 1: was only there for five months. Um, I played five months,
Speaker 1: came back home, got my degree, and then ninety six
Speaker 1: USA Basketball had put together a national team where we
Speaker 1: were together for an entire year. We trained in Colorado
Speaker 1: Springs in preparation for the ninety six Olympics in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: We trained in Colorado Springs. We did a European tour
Speaker 1: and they paid us to do that, so I never
Speaker 1: was in a position where I had to go play
Speaker 1: overseas in the off season. If I if I did it,
Speaker 1: it's it was because I chose to do it. But
Speaker 1: right after the Olympics, then the w NBA started take
Speaker 1: Me Back tomics. Obviously, you guys get there, you guys
Speaker 1: capture gold, but that's also the bombing. So what what
Speaker 1: was that experience like for you guys with the bomb
Speaker 1: in Centennial Park? Because I actually just watched the Netflix
Speaker 1: thing and I forgot what it was called, but they
Speaker 1: had the guy that they thought set the bomb and
Speaker 1: he didn't really, but it really fascinated me and brought
Speaker 1: me back to that point because I remember when I
Speaker 1: was in high school seeing how big of a deal
Speaker 1: that was. And it's crazy because I saw that on Netflix,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to watch it because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to go back to that moment. Too close to home,
Speaker 1: I can imagine, right. I think, first of all, we
Speaker 1: all thought it was a joke for whatever reason, because
Speaker 1: it's like, first of all, we're in the US, right,
Speaker 1: like that's not happening here. And then Centennial Park was
Speaker 1: so close to where we were staying. We didn't stay
Speaker 1: in the Olympic Village with all the other athletes. We
Speaker 1: were in Um. Y'all forgive me because I can't even
Speaker 1: think of the name of the hotel. Um. If I
Speaker 1: said the Omni, would you say, yeah, does that make sense? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's the Omni right to park. Okay, thank you,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, is there even an Omni anymore? But
Speaker 1: that's where yep, that's where we stay. So we actually
Speaker 1: had a day off and I think most of us
Speaker 1: were just kind of out doing our own thing. And
Speaker 1: as soon as the bombing happened, we all start getting
Speaker 1: these messages and security and everybody. We all had to
Speaker 1: get together and they took us away from the hotel
Speaker 1: until they found out like what was really going on.
Speaker 1: And I think in that moment though, was it was
Speaker 1: more about like like why, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like why would someone want to harm a lot of people,
Speaker 1: not not just Americans, but you're talking about people from
Speaker 1: all over the world. Yeah, and then just people just fans, right,
Speaker 1: And it's so And that's why I saw it on Netflix, Matt,
Speaker 1: and I was like, mm hmmm. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: really want to go back there. Yeah, to this day,
Speaker 1: they still haven't found the person they really Yeah, they
Speaker 1: still haven't found the person. They exonerated the person they accused.
Speaker 1: He ended up dying later, but yeah, to this day,
Speaker 1: it's still an open case. It's crazy. And you learned
Speaker 1: that after watching the movie. Yeah, okay, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a serious It was pretty interesting, but like I said,
Speaker 1: it was close to home for you. Um, the w
Speaker 1: n b A comes around, you're the first player signed,
Speaker 1: but you don't join the league and uh for actually
Speaker 1: six weeks after you signed because you had the birth
Speaker 1: of your first son, which I think is crazy and
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. The fact that you guys can go through
Speaker 1: the whole pregnancy, give birth and then just hop back
Speaker 1: like right where you picked up at it. It's unbelievable
Speaker 1: to me, Matt. It does not happen like that. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll make it look easy. Yeah you look like that though. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, no, let's rewind a little bit. So here
Speaker 1: here's a crazy thing. When when the after the ninety
Speaker 1: six Olympics, or during the Olympics, I should say, I
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Val Ackerman who when when it
Speaker 1: first started, Val was the president, like we didn't have
Speaker 1: a commissioner UM and David Stern god rest his soul.
Speaker 1: I had conversations with the two of them about UM
Speaker 1: the w n B A. And you know, at the time,
Speaker 1: there was another league, the A B L UM that
Speaker 1: started up immediately after the Olympics, so a lot of
Speaker 1: most of the players joined the A B L. But
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Val and David and they
Speaker 1: both asked me not to play in the A B L,
Speaker 1: that the w n B A was gonna start, and
Speaker 1: they wanted me to, you know, basically market the league,
Speaker 1: get people excited about it. And you know, I mean
Speaker 1: why not. I needed a break, wanted a break. They
Speaker 1: were gonna pay me so I didn't have to play
Speaker 1: in the A B L. And after that, I remember,
Speaker 1: I still didn't believe it was gonna happen until I
Speaker 1: actually signed that first contract with the w n B A.
Speaker 1: And as you said, I when I signed my contract,
Speaker 1: I did not know I was pregnant. I found out
Speaker 1: later and my initial reaction was shit, like, what is
Speaker 1: the league gonna think? What is the league gonna do?
Speaker 1: I'm letting the league down. I'm letting the fans down.
Speaker 1: I am the face of the league, like I gotta play,
Speaker 1: But there was no way I could play. Um obviously
Speaker 1: there was no way I could play, And it was
Speaker 1: never a question of whether I was going to have
Speaker 1: my son or not. So I waited until after my
Speaker 1: first trimester, had a conversation with um val Ackerman and
Speaker 1: told her what was going on, and she was so
Speaker 1: supportive and was just like, well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: that's as female athletes, that is one thing that we
Speaker 1: have to think about, right if we want to start
Speaker 1: a family and have kids, we have to think about that.
Speaker 1: But she said, as soon as you're you know, you're ready,
Speaker 1: you're able, you're healthy, Like, we'll be ready for you.
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, I continue to market the league and do
Speaker 1: things for the league. But as you said, six weeks
Speaker 1: after I gave birth to my son, I was back
Speaker 1: out of the court, and not so much that I
Speaker 1: was like, no, I gotta play, right, because that was impossible.
Speaker 1: I gained fifty five pounds I was pregnant, so I
Speaker 1: was like, there's no way. But the reason why I
Speaker 1: did it is because I wanted to be a part
Speaker 1: of the inaugural w NBA season, Like that was very
Speaker 1: important to me to just be a part of it. Um.
Speaker 1: But it was not as easy as I don't know people, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you made it sound like day I wish it
Speaker 1: was that easy. No, it um. It took me. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it took me an entire year to get back into
Speaker 1: playing shape. So you end up joining your team and
Speaker 1: you guys from the first year established a dynasty. We're
Speaker 1: able to win four straight titles? How tough after one,
Speaker 1: defending two, after two, defending three, and then finally getting
Speaker 1: that fourth. How tough was that each year with your
Speaker 1: team considering as a league, we ain't wait more than four.
Speaker 1: You want to know the truth, man, You know, here's
Speaker 1: us crazy. So when the league first started that first
Speaker 1: the first season, like there wasn't a draft, like players
Speaker 1: got to point it. So with me being from Texas,
Speaker 1: they said, all right, you're from Texas, You're going to
Speaker 1: play in Houston. And with Cooping living living in Houston,
Speaker 1: they appointed her to Houston and a lot of people
Speaker 1: didn't know about it. They were those players' sack, but
Speaker 1: letson know. But there were other teams that were the same.
Speaker 1: But people didn't really know about Coop because she had
Speaker 1: been playing overseas, right, she was one of those players
Speaker 1: that had to go play overseas because there was no
Speaker 1: professional league. So then after we get a pointed, right,
Speaker 1: then l A gets Lisa Leslie and I don't even
Speaker 1: know who the other player was, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: So then there's a draft and we end up drafting
Speaker 1: Tina Thompson. But no one, but no one knew how
Speaker 1: good Tina was gonna be. And so because I had
Speaker 1: played in the Olympics and Cooper played overseas, I knew
Speaker 1: this player from Brazil named Janette or Kane who was
Speaker 1: like all she's like all everything in Brazil. So then
Speaker 1: we get Janette to come and be on the team,
Speaker 1: and now you have you have four players. Is honestly,
Speaker 1: who on any given night can can give you thirty
Speaker 1: or forty seriously, So now it's about, well, let's go
Speaker 1: find us some role players. Some of your toughest matchups
Speaker 1: O UM playing l A was always tough, Like Lisa
Speaker 1: Leslie is one of the toughest competitors I've ever played
Speaker 1: with and against UM, even though we don't play the
Speaker 1: same position. Those were good battles that we had. Um,
Speaker 1: Tamika Catchings catches just a baller, like she was gonna
Speaker 1: defend you all night long. UM. And some you know
Speaker 1: players that a lot of people probably don't know or
Speaker 1: talk about. Like when the league first started, we had
Speaker 1: a lot of international players that could go Like there
Speaker 1: were a couple of players from Russia that we're not
Speaker 1: I mean ice that could just play. So defending a
Speaker 1: lot of the playing against a lot of the international
Speaker 1: players was I won't say it was tough. It was
Speaker 1: good competition, like like they were just good. And when
Speaker 1: I look at current players, I know you didn't ask
Speaker 1: me this question, but current players, UM, because the players
Speaker 1: today I didn't really play against. UM. But like Angel mccatrey,
Speaker 1: I think I think Angel's heck of a player. Loved Angel.
Speaker 1: Angel reminds me of myself. She plays both ends of
Speaker 1: the floor. I just I love her game, love watching
Speaker 1: her play. Huge Asia Wilson fan, I love Asia Wilson.
Speaker 1: I think Asia will be one of the best players
Speaker 1: in the league. UM. The player I will leave with
Speaker 1: would be Lauren Jackson, who played for Seattle. For people
Speaker 1: who don't to play for Seattle, Lauren, Lauren was the true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta give Lisa problems. We gotta gives prolem she be.
Speaker 1: She's the first woman. She's the first woman to have
Speaker 1: a w NBA championship and also be the coach to
Speaker 1: coach a professional men's team to a championship in the
Speaker 1: Big threship. Beat me in the championship with Joe Johnson team.
Speaker 1: So salute to Lisa. Salutes. I think I was there
Speaker 1: when she beat you. So yeah, hell, goddamnito too much.
Speaker 1: Joe Johnson was too much. Actually got him on the
Speaker 1: show coming soon. But Joe was just too much. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you a question since you brought that up,
Speaker 1: because I I heard some people saying, oh, because Nancy
Speaker 1: did Nancy win the first championship. She did, she won
Speaker 1: the second one, the second one, the second one, Nancy
Speaker 1: won the second, and then Lisa won the third. So
Speaker 1: I heard a lot of people saying that they were
Speaker 1: given players to stack their team so that they could
Speaker 1: make a big deal out of a female coaching the
Speaker 1: men's teams and winning a championship. I can answer that
Speaker 1: that's absolutely false. Um, Corey mcgetty and Contino Mobley picked
Speaker 1: Nancy Lieberman to be their coach first of all, Um,
Speaker 1: and before John Johnson came in the league, they asked
Speaker 1: Joe Johnson, they gave him a number of coaches who
Speaker 1: he wanted to play for, and he also picked Lesa Leslie.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I I have been the face of
Speaker 1: this league. I have been the face of the Big
Speaker 1: Three since and started, and Joe took it from me now.
Speaker 1: But that that is the facts. That's what's up. I
Speaker 1: like that. I like that. So, um, you were able
Speaker 1: to experience a lot of success early on in the
Speaker 1: w n b A. But outside of actually playing, what
Speaker 1: are some of the challenges you and some of the
Speaker 1: bigger name players face continuing to try to grow the
Speaker 1: league and getting respect and getting equal pay and in
Speaker 1: the whole nine, Because it's still I struggled to this day.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. She took a deep breath before this one.
Speaker 1: Where did I did? I just listen? I take a
Speaker 1: lot of pride in watching the league succeed and doing
Speaker 1: my part to try and help it succeed, right, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I also feel like it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where it's like, thank you, guys for
Speaker 1: what you did for us. Now it's time to move
Speaker 1: on to other players, current players, and I take that
Speaker 1: very personally. It's almost like a slap in the face
Speaker 1: when you look at where the league started and all
Speaker 1: the players who helped get the league to where it
Speaker 1: is today, and for for us not to be included
Speaker 1: in this may be real petty, but I don't really care.
Speaker 1: So when I look at the NBA, right I look
Speaker 1: at NBA All Star and all the events and things
Speaker 1: that are going on um surrounding NBA All Star, you
Speaker 1: always see former players involved in some capacity, and I
Speaker 1: think that's important because I also think there's a connection
Speaker 1: that former players have with the fans and even with
Speaker 1: the players. But that doesn't happen in the w n
Speaker 1: B A, So I don't know if that was two
Speaker 1: years ago. All Star Game is in Las Vegas, and
Speaker 1: again it's not this big, grand ceremony celebration like the NBA.
Speaker 1: I get that, but you still have so many former
Speaker 1: players who are around who want to be a part
Speaker 1: of the league, who want to help grow the league,
Speaker 1: but you don't take it and into that, and you
Speaker 1: don't use use us to help do that. So when
Speaker 1: I go to the Skills Challenge, this is two All
Speaker 1: Star Games ago. I go to the skills Challenge right
Speaker 1: to watch the w n b A do their little thing.
Speaker 1: It's not packed a gazillion seats on the floor. I
Speaker 1: get someone walk up to me and say, sure, you
Speaker 1: can't sit on the floor, your seat is up there.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Now when I say that, maybe petty, I
Speaker 1: don't look at that as being petty, because the way
Speaker 1: I look at that is what your bank as disrespectful.
Speaker 1: And not not only that, y'all there's five empty seats
Speaker 1: on the floor. Nobody's there watching first of all, right,
Speaker 1: like seriously, And then I turned and look at who
Speaker 1: you who you did allow to sit on the floor,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.
Speaker 1: It really is. And I have over over the years,
Speaker 1: I have become more vocal about the treatment and or
Speaker 1: mistreatment and how I feel about it, because I think
Speaker 1: if you want to continue to see the league grow
Speaker 1: and be successful, you have to start using your former
Speaker 1: players to make that happen. And a lot of the
Speaker 1: fans in the w n b A are fans from
Speaker 1: back in the day who still have that connection or
Speaker 1: they want that connection of relationship with the former players.
Speaker 1: And I just don't see how that could hurt if
Speaker 1: if anything, it's only going to help grow the game.
Speaker 1: And I do know for a fact that there I
Speaker 1: am not the only player that feels that way. I mean,
Speaker 1: like Jack said, I mean, the league was built on
Speaker 1: your guys is back and the fact that there's no
Speaker 1: homage or almost even respect um when it comes to
Speaker 1: recognizing who helped the foundation of this league that has
Speaker 1: continued to grow ever since. But like you said, it's
Speaker 1: still it's funny you say that because I feel a
Speaker 1: similar way with U C l A. It's almost like
Speaker 1: we did what we did out there, and then once
Speaker 1: you're gone, you're gone, and who's next? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? We had probably arguably the most guys in
Speaker 1: the NBA, but they don't you unless you're back donating thousands,
Speaker 1: a hundreds of thousands of dollars, they don't give a
Speaker 1: shit about you. Like they don't use us to recruit nobody,
Speaker 1: They don't use us to do anything, and we're some
Speaker 1: of the most recognizable figures in the game, but they
Speaker 1: don't utilize this, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 1: what's the point, you know? So it's I I could
Speaker 1: obviously yours is on a higher level because it's professional.
Speaker 1: But I get exactly what you're saying. It's just like,
Speaker 1: once you did what you did, it was great for
Speaker 1: what you did, it right you thank you for what
Speaker 1: you did. But who's up next now? Instead of being like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we appreciate you, how can we integrate you? Because
Speaker 1: to me, you can't tell me that having me call someone,
Speaker 1: having Baron Davis called someone, Russell Westbrook call someone, some
Speaker 1: of these guys call some of these players, and using
Speaker 1: a recruiting pitch is not gonna help you recruit players,
Speaker 1: just like it's not gonna help for you guys. Gonna
Speaker 1: help you guys to be there to continue to grow
Speaker 1: the game, Matt. You may not they may not get
Speaker 1: the players, but they're at least going to listen to you.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like, I think that,
Speaker 1: to me, that's a no brainer, And why people can't
Speaker 1: see that and don't take advantage of that is beyond
Speaker 1: me to touch on that. I know when I you know,
Speaker 1: I've been to a couple of All Star Games and
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not know where the players in the
Speaker 1: NBA that you were, that you was in the w
Speaker 1: n b A and the respect that you deserve. But
Speaker 1: they have tickets at All Star games and floor seats
Speaker 1: for theft guy on the roster when All Star weekend
Speaker 1: in any city. So it's no way that the face
Speaker 1: of the w n b A should not be able,
Speaker 1: you know, to set on the floor. So I I
Speaker 1: totally understand your pain. But the NBA does a great
Speaker 1: job of bringing w n BAY players and getting them
Speaker 1: and All Star weekend, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: so I don't understand what you're saying. No, I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say. Some people might listen to that and
Speaker 1: they're like, that is so petty, but it really isn't
Speaker 1: like I have done so much for this game, for
Speaker 1: the league, and I continue to do it daily, and
Speaker 1: for me to expect to be treated a certain kind
Speaker 1: of way, I don't think that's asking too much, not
Speaker 1: at all. My one question is did you move seats
Speaker 1: when they came and told you that wasn't your seat?
Speaker 1: So listen, let me tell you. So now I tell you,
Speaker 1: let me. The angry black woman in me came out.
Speaker 1: This is what I wanted to hear. I want to
Speaker 1: hear this. I wanted to I wanted to. I wanted
Speaker 1: to cuss it the screen when you just told me
Speaker 1: what happened, Like, what the funk? I left? I left
Speaker 1: the whole, Jim. I left the whole Jim. Then, well,
Speaker 1: let's sence you ask that question. No, let me let me,
Speaker 1: let me finish the story. I left the gym right.
Speaker 1: The next day was the actual All Star game. Okay,
Speaker 1: the next day it was an actual All Star game.
Speaker 1: And our tickets. Again, they weren't a nose bleep but
Speaker 1: some bullshit, I'll say it for you, but let me
Speaker 1: tell you what happened, man. So instead, I come to
Speaker 1: the game and I sat courtside. So the same person
Speaker 1: that told me the day before that I couldn't sit
Speaker 1: there comes over to me and says, oh, you didn't
Speaker 1: pick up your ticket for the game. Um, how did
Speaker 1: you get this one? I said, first of all, it
Speaker 1: wasn't none of your business. I didn't get it from you.
Speaker 1: Who is? So I ended up the owner, the owner
Speaker 1: of the aces. He gave me a ticket. He was like, no,
Speaker 1: you need to be sitting courtside right next to me.
Speaker 1: So that caught that was a whole anyway. I'm like, really, well,
Speaker 1: someone someone from the w NBA is going to hear this.
Speaker 1: Y'all need to treat your legends better, especially if you
Speaker 1: want the game to grow, if you want people to
Speaker 1: continue to support, if you want outside people to support,
Speaker 1: you can't be treating the people that laid the foundation
Speaker 1: for this game like ship and that's what you guys
Speaker 1: are doing. And how many players you know, got chips
Speaker 1: out to ask man more than she can count and
Speaker 1: v and also for the players though, right, like, there
Speaker 1: are things that the current players can learn from the veterans. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: ship that we went through that you know, we can
Speaker 1: share with you guys and talk to you guys about. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's all he wants. So three time Olympic gold medalists,
Speaker 1: what were those experiences? Like? You know, obviously being in
Speaker 1: the w n b A is huge because it just starts,
Speaker 1: but it's a different kind of pride representing your country
Speaker 1: and being able to do it successfully three three times
Speaker 1: over a twelve year span. How fun was that? Man?
Speaker 1: Like one other which want you want home? But you know, Matt,
Speaker 1: when I won a championship in college, I said like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is great and it doesn't get
Speaker 1: any better than this. So then I go to the
Speaker 1: w n b A and win championships, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: my God, doesn't get any better than this. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you, winning hips bad, my bad, my bad, my bad, bad.
Speaker 1: You said it. But winning an Olympic excuse me, three
Speaker 1: Olympic gold medals is on a completely different level because
Speaker 1: you're not only representing your city or your town, or
Speaker 1: your school or your team, it's your country, right, and
Speaker 1: you're competing against other countries best that they can possibly
Speaker 1: send to compete heat and and you're playing alongside the best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had some incredible talent on on all of those
Speaker 1: Olympic teams. But you know, even though that was nine
Speaker 1: two thousand four, I still take a lot of pride
Speaker 1: in it when I look at where we are as
Speaker 1: a country, right, and being a black woman in this
Speaker 1: country having an opportunity to compete on the highest level
Speaker 1: and put on that USA uniform. And this is a
Speaker 1: part I get a little emotional because you know, when
Speaker 1: the whole insurrection and stuff happened, And if I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to talk about this, y'all, tailor, but when the whole
Speaker 1: insurrection happened and you see some of the people who
Speaker 1: were in there there's the freaking Olympic gold medalist on
Speaker 1: the swimmer, right. Yeah, and so my my my response
Speaker 1: to that when I saw it a lot, But when
Speaker 1: I saw him was why did you ever put on
Speaker 1: a us H jersey regardless of what you're competing in? Like,
Speaker 1: do you truly understand what that represents? Because even though
Speaker 1: I don't compete anymore, I don't play anymore, and and
Speaker 1: being a black person in this country is difficult, male
Speaker 1: or female, it's difficult. I still take a lot of
Speaker 1: I still take a lot of pride in representing my
Speaker 1: country because it it is. It is my country. Whether
Speaker 1: people want to say that or disagree or not, it is.
Speaker 1: And so it's hard for me to sit back and
Speaker 1: watch stuff like that and not feel some type of way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at what point in your career did you realize that
Speaker 1: you would come into role model to other little girls
Speaker 1: and even boys that look up to the game of basketball.
Speaker 1: I think even in college, you know, I always take
Speaker 1: a lot of pride in trying to do something for
Speaker 1: someone else. And somebody asked me this question today. They said,
Speaker 1: during you know, the pandemic and everything that's going on,
Speaker 1: how do you get through? And my response to that was, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to find time for yourself. But I try
Speaker 1: to take the focus off of myself and think about
Speaker 1: somebody else that probably has it a little bit worse
Speaker 1: than I do, So I try to figure out how
Speaker 1: can I help that person. So even playing and in college,
Speaker 1: to me, it takes nothing to stop and sign an
Speaker 1: autograph for somebody or to say hello, And you never
Speaker 1: know what that person is going through or what that
Speaker 1: person has been through, and just to stop and say
Speaker 1: hi or sign an autograph could completely change that person's day,
Speaker 1: if not their life. So I think for me in
Speaker 1: college and one growing up in a small town and
Speaker 1: going to Texas Tech and being in Love Book, everybody
Speaker 1: knew everybody, so I kind of was like the local
Speaker 1: celebrity or local hero. Um so I and because of that,
Speaker 1: I knew that and I took a lot of pride
Speaker 1: in that, and I always tried to carry myself in
Speaker 1: a way that um, when people looked at me, they
Speaker 1: could look at me and say, she she's just a
Speaker 1: great person. You know, it's not about being a great athlete.
Speaker 1: She's just a great human being. And that's what that's
Speaker 1: that's what I always try to do I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't mean to go out to think, but I got
Speaker 1: two questions that I I just thought about. One. We
Speaker 1: talked to Dion Sanders and he we talked about his curl.
Speaker 1: He said, his curl you had. You had a famous
Speaker 1: curl too, said, this girl looked wet dry? Did Joe
Speaker 1: curl look wet? Wasn't drying? I wasn't actually went on
Speaker 1: the collar and all that because that she was blowing
Speaker 1: to the curl. What was it? What was that? It
Speaker 1: was just it was a slick back. Wasn't the slick
Speaker 1: back that was the college days though? Right? The curl
Speaker 1: she had, she had the slick thought she had a curve.
Speaker 1: We thought it was a curl. Now, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I had some of everything going on in college. Have
Speaker 1: a curl. I had a curl that really wasn't a curl,
Speaker 1: but it was supposed to be a curl, a wet
Speaker 1: curl like the one you know where it was everything
Speaker 1: said dr said, he look wet, but it was really dry.
Speaker 1: My dad, my dad had to wet one to wear
Speaker 1: tel around his neck to make sure he didn't get
Speaker 1: all of his shirts. So yeah, I know all about that.
Speaker 1: My my second question was how good was Don state Oh,
Speaker 1: she's one of my favorite ever Mine too, so I
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to play with her in the Olympics
Speaker 1: and then I played with her one year for um
Speaker 1: with the comments, Dawn is you know, I hate when
Speaker 1: people do the whole comparison thing like Lebron and m J,
Speaker 1: because I say, it's just different, Like the timing is different, rules,
Speaker 1: the rules are different, right, fouls are different, all of
Speaker 1: those things. So even now when people say, well, Sue
Speaker 1: Bird is the best point guard ever, m maybe because
Speaker 1: you never saw Don Staley play, I mean, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And that's not taking anything away from Sue.
Speaker 1: I think Sue is a good point guard, but when
Speaker 1: you start talking about the best, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what That's what I would say. And Don Stateley,
Speaker 1: to me, is the epitome of what a true point
Speaker 1: guard should be. Right. She runs the team, She gets
Speaker 1: in your ship when she needs to, She puts people
Speaker 1: where they're supposed to be, and she is the fifth option.
Speaker 1: When you talk about scoring, that's like the last thing
Speaker 1: on her mind. And it's just a competitor. And when
Speaker 1: I look at what she has done with South Carolina. Yes, man, listen,
Speaker 1: don't stay to me. They don't talk about her enough,
Speaker 1: what she's doing in the women's game. I love me some,
Speaker 1: don I'm glad you did because I love me some
Speaker 1: down States for um. So you've got a chance to
Speaker 1: spend eleven years in Houston. This is a two part question.
Speaker 1: So how how how important was it to you to
Speaker 1: play there and be able to represent your home state,
Speaker 1: And then how hard was it for you to leave
Speaker 1: in two Seattle? That was the hardest thing ever. You know,
Speaker 1: I always thought I would retire a Houston comment, but
Speaker 1: when the team bold and all that stuff, so like
Speaker 1: I don't have a jersey that's retired hanging up in
Speaker 1: Toyota Center because the comments folded. But that was the
Speaker 1: hardest thing for me to play the majority of my
Speaker 1: professional career in Houston in Texas and then go play
Speaker 1: for Seattle for a year and then go play Potrols
Speaker 1: for a year. At that point, I was like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be that player. Like it's it's it's time,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's time, I'm done. But it's
Speaker 1: tough when you spend your entire career with one team
Speaker 1: and then at the end of your career. You you
Speaker 1: think you can still play a little bit, but that
Speaker 1: team doesn't. So it's like, but I still got a
Speaker 1: little juice left to give, y'all, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I comes along and they're like, all right, sure we'll
Speaker 1: take you. So because I still wanted to play, I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I'm I'm out. But that was
Speaker 1: that was hard. I hated. I hated leaving to go
Speaker 1: play somewhere else. And it's nothing against Seattle, because we
Speaker 1: had great battles Seattle. I love the players I played
Speaker 1: with there. But to to not finish my career in Houston, um,
Speaker 1: it was tough. You just mentioned it right now. When
Speaker 1: did you know, because sometimes we're the last ones to know.
Speaker 1: When did you know it was time? That's true, that's true. Um,
Speaker 1: you know I always told myself that when it got
Speaker 1: to a point where there was no longer a challenge
Speaker 1: or anything for me to strive for, that it was
Speaker 1: time for me to retire. And when I say that, like,
Speaker 1: I accomplished far more than I ever thought I would
Speaker 1: accomplish playing basketball. Um, So it got to a point
Speaker 1: where I was like, all right, well, what's the next challenge? Um.
Speaker 1: But physically I had I had back surgery. I had
Speaker 1: a ruptured disc. So I had back surgery in two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten, and the doctor told me, if you
Speaker 1: don't have surgery, you're done playing right, and if you
Speaker 1: have surgery, it's about a seventy five chance you can
Speaker 1: play again. So I decided to have the surgery, not
Speaker 1: not for playing purposes, but just so when I was
Speaker 1: done playing, I wanted to have a life right. And
Speaker 1: so after I came back from back surgery, I knew
Speaker 1: then that I would never be the same, but Seattle
Speaker 1: was like, we we need you, we still want you.
Speaker 1: So I came back played that year. And after that
Speaker 1: year with Seattle, I was like, NA, Like I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to end my career like this. Um.
Speaker 1: So I went through another off season of rehabbing and
Speaker 1: training and my body felt really good. So I thought
Speaker 1: I was gonna go back to Seattle one more year. Nope.
Speaker 1: I got the axe. And a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know that, but I got the ax from Seattle, and
Speaker 1: that's how I ended up at Tulsa. Played one year
Speaker 1: in Tulsa and then I was like, no, y'are not
Speaker 1: gonna do me like that, I'm done so and you're right, man,
Speaker 1: because sometimes we don't right. But I never wanted to
Speaker 1: be that player that retired and then said, oh man,
Speaker 1: I got two more years and then try to come back.
Speaker 1: That to me was just like get it out, get
Speaker 1: it out. You only live once, do it. So two
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, you have the honor of being inducted
Speaker 1: to the Nate Smith Basketball Hall of Fame. Explained to
Speaker 1: us what that feeling was like, Man, you really do
Speaker 1: want me to cry down, don't you. Um So, listen, listen.
Speaker 1: The reason why I get so emotional when I think
Speaker 1: about that, and I'll probably talk fast, is that was
Speaker 1: the last trip that my mom was able to go
Speaker 1: on with me before she passed. And it was special
Speaker 1: because my mom passed away from colon cancer. But the
Speaker 1: doctors had told her that she like, she couldn't even
Speaker 1: make that trip, and she said to me, she was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I can't make that trip. I will be there.
Speaker 1: Um So, when I think about that, having her front row,
Speaker 1: front and center and so so proud and so happy
Speaker 1: in you know, in that moment, it wasn't about her
Speaker 1: or her illness. It was about me. You know, and
Speaker 1: I could see how proud she was and um to
Speaker 1: be able to share that with her after the entire
Speaker 1: journey that we had gone through. I started playing ball
Speaker 1: when I was seven. You know, my mom was with
Speaker 1: me the entire time and at times telling me no,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't play, you shouldn't do that, and then becoming
Speaker 1: my biggest fan. Um, you know. And I think it's
Speaker 1: an athlete. We all want to be remembered for something
Speaker 1: that we gave to the game, right And I think
Speaker 1: it's different for everybody, but for me in that moment
Speaker 1: being at the Hall of Fame and this is the
Speaker 1: Nai Smith Hall of Fame where it's the best of
Speaker 1: the best. You know, it's not about it's not about
Speaker 1: being a man being a woman. It's the best of
Speaker 1: the best. And you know, and I'm sharing that moment
Speaker 1: with with with my husband, with my son, but you
Speaker 1: know my mom and in this building is I say,
Speaker 1: it's royalty. You know what I mean, you got the
Speaker 1: Dr Jay's magic. Everybody that's a Hall of Famer. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I was giving my speech looking at
Speaker 1: my mom and I could see this look on her
Speaker 1: face of like we did it, Like this is where
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be, so to be able to share
Speaker 1: that with her, um, you know, and then come home
Speaker 1: and seriously, it was man, not even not even a
Speaker 1: year later that she passed, but it was like, seriously,
Speaker 1: it's still hard for me at times to really grasp
Speaker 1: what it what it truly means to be in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, like it really is a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know to a lot of people understand too.
Speaker 1: When you talk about Hall of Fame, they're not just
Speaker 1: talking about your professional in your w b A. They're
Speaker 1: talking about your whole career and basketball body of work,
Speaker 1: your body of work. That's the people that make it
Speaker 1: to the Hall of Fame, that has that have legendary
Speaker 1: he's of work in the game, and that's the testament
Speaker 1: to you. So congratulations again man, you belong n Man.
Speaker 1: But I think that's dope though, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: although different but but similar at the same time, you
Speaker 1: got to share that experience with your mom, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. In my mentioned a second ago, I
Speaker 1: lost my mom to canterer in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: I came into the NBA in two thousand to two
Speaker 1: thousand three, but bounced around really never got a chance
Speaker 1: to play and in two thousand and six and seven
Speaker 1: with our We Believe Warrior team. You know, I kind
Speaker 1: of really found my footing. And my mom was at
Speaker 1: every single home game and got to see like her
Speaker 1: baby succeed at my dream. And then she died less
Speaker 1: than a year later, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: I know what you mean when you you say this
Speaker 1: experienced that ultimate moment that your mom's get to get
Speaker 1: to share with you, because she was there with you
Speaker 1: from the beginning. So I know exactly how you feel
Speaker 1: to get that that that big moment quote unquote to
Speaker 1: share with you. You know, it's like you can take
Speaker 1: a deep breath right like, yeah, and that's exactly how
Speaker 1: I felt. Yeah, special, that's beautiful. It's beautiful. Um, how
Speaker 1: crucial was it because you know, like you said, you've
Speaker 1: you've been in this since the beginning, um to help
Speaker 1: get salaries raised. You know, unfortunately the majority of these girls,
Speaker 1: you were one of the lucky ones, but the majority
Speaker 1: of these girls have to go overseas as soon as
Speaker 1: this season ends to kind of make ends meet. So
Speaker 1: you guys really never get real time off. So how
Speaker 1: important is it to you to continue to raise awareness
Speaker 1: to help these salaries continue to grow, so these women
Speaker 1: can make a real living and not have to go
Speaker 1: do crazy things just to be a professional athlete in
Speaker 1: the w n b A. And it's some of the
Speaker 1: top players too, Matt like, well for both of Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, Jack, it's it's important, you know. And here's
Speaker 1: the thing that drives me crazy when you see all
Speaker 1: these social media trolls, whether that's Instagram, Twitter, anytime you
Speaker 1: see a w NBA player comment about salaries, they immediately
Speaker 1: go to, well, you're not Lebron James, you shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: And no one's saying that. But what they are saying
Speaker 1: is we deserve to be compensated for our body of work. Right.
Speaker 1: It's not saying yeah we should. We should be signing
Speaker 1: multimillion dollar contracts like the NBA. No, but the NBA
Speaker 1: didn't sign those contracts when the NBA was in their
Speaker 1: twenty fifth season, you know. So, yeah, it's gonna take time.
Speaker 1: But the thing that that that I'm proud of is
Speaker 1: the new cb A that the player signed is like,
Speaker 1: that's a great step in the right direction. So when
Speaker 1: when we played, I had a child, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: childcare wasn't taken care of. I had to pay for
Speaker 1: that out of my pocket. You know, if I wanted
Speaker 1: my nanny to travel, I had to pay for that
Speaker 1: out of my pocket. Even as a mom, I'm sharing
Speaker 1: a room with one of my teammates, So if I
Speaker 1: want my own room, I gotta pay for that, pay
Speaker 1: the difference out of pocket. So of course, if I'm
Speaker 1: traveling with my son and my manny, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: my room. I'm gonna get a room for a nanny
Speaker 1: so my son can be there. So all those things
Speaker 1: we had to go through so that the players today
Speaker 1: know what to ask for. Right, we didn't know. The
Speaker 1: league had just started. We were just happy to be playing, right,
Speaker 1: It's like you want us to sleep in bunk beds,
Speaker 1: We're gonna sleep in a bunk bed. Didn't matter, right,
Speaker 1: because we didn't know what to ask for. So when
Speaker 1: I look at the players today, yeah, they're educated. They
Speaker 1: continue to see what's going on around them, and they
Speaker 1: understand their worth. And not to say that we didn't,
Speaker 1: but again, the league was just you gotta start somewhere,
Speaker 1: and I say, somebody's gotta be, somebody's gotta be. Lack
Speaker 1: of a better word, I'll say guinea pig. Right. So,
Speaker 1: now we we didn't fly on private planes. We flew commercial.
Speaker 1: We play in Houston on a UM Tuesday at seven,
Speaker 1: game finishes at nine. By the time you get home,
Speaker 1: it's midnight. We gotta be up at six in the
Speaker 1: morning the next day because we gotta go get on
Speaker 1: a plane. We have it back to back in Phoenix, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what we did. But we made it work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we made it work. So when when I look at
Speaker 1: and and it's not just about them fighting for better
Speaker 1: work conditions and better salary and things like that, but
Speaker 1: they like they stand up and they speak out and
Speaker 1: they use their voices, whether that is around social justice
Speaker 1: or any you know, the election politics, any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Like they're saying, listen, these things matter to us too.
Speaker 1: Just because we're athletes doesn't mean we don't care about
Speaker 1: those things, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a voice.
Speaker 1: You know. It goes back to the whole thing they
Speaker 1: said about Lebron shut up and dribble. No, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not what we're gonna do. And so I make it.
Speaker 1: I take my hat off to those ladies because they're
Speaker 1: they're not afraid to just you know, stand up and
Speaker 1: and speak up and speak out and say right is
Speaker 1: right and wrong is wrong. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's because of what you guys went through that they
Speaker 1: understand their worth now, right absolutely. But you know, and
Speaker 1: I hear I get a lot of people ask me.
Speaker 1: You know, they say, well, do you wish you were
Speaker 1: still playing today? And then your salary would be what
Speaker 1: these ladies are making. So here's what I say, Well,
Speaker 1: that's a dumb question, because of course I would move
Speaker 1: to make more money right when I was playing, I
Speaker 1: would love to make more money. But I'm not mad
Speaker 1: at these ladies because they are making more than what
Speaker 1: I made when I played. That's the way it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be. It's supposed to happen that way, right. How
Speaker 1: proud are you of the w w NBA players making
Speaker 1: a stand taking this in Um, I mean, I'm I'm proud.
Speaker 1: But you know what I would say is this isn't new, Like,
Speaker 1: this isn't anything new for the w n b A
Speaker 1: from from the time I feel like from the time
Speaker 1: the w n b A first started in n it
Speaker 1: was there was always something surrounding the w n b
Speaker 1: A the players aren't good enough, all the players are gay.
Speaker 1: The league's not gonna last. So we've always had to
Speaker 1: fight against something, fight for something. We always have to
Speaker 1: stand in our ground for something. So to to see
Speaker 1: what the women are doing now, like it's no surprise
Speaker 1: to me. I think it's a surprise to a lot
Speaker 1: of other people because they don't know the women like that.
Speaker 1: They've never seen them like that. And it's not just
Speaker 1: about what they bring to the court and what they
Speaker 1: have to offer the game, but it's so much bigger
Speaker 1: than that. Like there's a lot of strong, talented, smart
Speaker 1: women who play in the w n b A that
Speaker 1: are very educated and they they're very well aware of
Speaker 1: what's going on around them, what's going on in this
Speaker 1: in this world, in this country, and they're going to
Speaker 1: speak up. And you know, I don't know if here's
Speaker 1: what makes them so powerful is that they all been
Speaker 1: together right together, Like they all stick together. So when
Speaker 1: somebody comes in and says, Kelly author, who was is
Speaker 1: whatever the owner of Atlanta Dream, like she's wrong, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: Like one player comes in and says, guys, listen, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everybody's like, you're right. So then
Speaker 1: you see them coming in wearing they're warnut T shirts,
Speaker 1: Like that's a powerful statement. Even though people may not
Speaker 1: may not think so, that's a powerful statement. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very proud to see you know, what they
Speaker 1: continue to do on a daily basis, and they do
Speaker 1: so much more than that that goes unnoticed. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: said this when I was doing ESPN. I said, obviously,
Speaker 1: you guys strength as in your unity. But if any
Speaker 1: group understands what fighting for equality is, it's the w
Speaker 1: n B A because you guys have been fighting for
Speaker 1: equality since the inauguration of the of the league, you know,
Speaker 1: So if anyone understands what it's like to fight for
Speaker 1: whether it's equality in the game or just social equality
Speaker 1: in our country. And that's why you saw because the
Speaker 1: w NBA represents every color of the rainbow. There's all
Speaker 1: kinds of different nationalities in there, but all from the
Speaker 1: white to the to the every other race, they understood
Speaker 1: and stood you know, uh, you know, tin toes down
Speaker 1: with everything that these black players were doing because they understand, like,
Speaker 1: you know, these are our sisters, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: we understand what it's like fighting for equality overall. So
Speaker 1: the w n b A is always to me even
Speaker 1: special in that area one because your guys unity is
Speaker 1: is unmatched. But like you said, there's so much more
Speaker 1: that they do that we don't actually get a chance
Speaker 1: to see. We get to see now more because it's
Speaker 1: talked about and everyone is doing it. But they've always
Speaker 1: been behind the scenes, pushing the envelope and fighting um
Speaker 1: even when we didn't even realize there was a fight
Speaker 1: to be had. Wow, you know, Matt, it's it's so
Speaker 1: crazy to think back when the w n b A
Speaker 1: first started and you know, some of the things and
Speaker 1: issues that we had and stuff that we had to
Speaker 1: fight for, but it was nowhere near the scale that
Speaker 1: it is today. Like you're you're talking about someone's life,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean that these women are standing
Speaker 1: up for and they're fighting for saying this is not okay.
Speaker 1: And to me, if if more people, right, if more
Speaker 1: people would take that stance when they see something is wrong,
Speaker 1: regardless of color, raised nationality, when they see something wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if more people would do that, I think we as
Speaker 1: a country would be in a better place. But what
Speaker 1: I think, what I think it has it has done
Speaker 1: though it's it's given it's given people to allow people
Speaker 1: and insight into who who these women really are. Like again,
Speaker 1: they're more than athletes. And like you said, you have
Speaker 1: you got white, you got black. And I mean the
Speaker 1: w n b A just like the NBA, it's black.
Speaker 1: But you saw a lot of the white players who
Speaker 1: were at the front of the line, you know, saying
Speaker 1: these are my sisters and brothers, and so I am
Speaker 1: gonna be here with them. I'm gonna walk alongside them,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a part of this with them. And
Speaker 1: I think because of that, you've got everybody together. That's
Speaker 1: a strong, powerful statement. Absolutely, something we can all learn from.
Speaker 1: Something NBA can learn from two is your guys, unity
Speaker 1: and togetherness. All right, coming down the home stretch, we
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time. We got quick hitters. First thing
Speaker 1: to come to mind, Jack ahead, your favorite teammate. Next, nice,
Speaker 1: we're gonna you're gonna do that to me. We're we're
Speaker 1: all day. You plus four going to play a pickup
Speaker 1: game at the park, Me plus four, Lisa Leslie of course,
Speaker 1: Cynthia Cooper, oh my god, don stay yeah, well, y'all
Speaker 1: gonna play against me and at the Rutger you ain't
Speaker 1: going to the all day too. I want to be
Speaker 1: your six man. Three songs from the late nineties that
Speaker 1: was in your pre game playlist. I want to hear
Speaker 1: this with some with some R songs from the late
Speaker 1: nineties that was in your pre game playlist. That turns
Speaker 1: you up, That turns you up from Texas, So I
Speaker 1: know you got something. No, here's a crazy thing, like
Speaker 1: I listened to Mellow music before, asked. I asked because
Speaker 1: I'd been listening. I'll go from park to like R
Speaker 1: and B. I don't know if this was nineties like,
Speaker 1: but my my go to song before a game was
Speaker 1: Mary Mary though shackles. Yeah but that nineties yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah and probably Whitney used to anything Whitney. I
Speaker 1: was good, Like, that's what I didn't listen to all
Speaker 1: this upb rat. That just that got me in a
Speaker 1: place where I was like, no, my mind is all
Speaker 1: over the place. I had to calm the nerves. I
Speaker 1: love it. I love it. Uh. Five dinner guests that
Speaker 1: are alive. Oh what my mom is coming back for sure? Um?
Speaker 1: Michelle and Barack the Obama's mm hmm, let me see
Speaker 1: my mom, Michelle rock and you too, how about that
Speaker 1: time out now? But if you too, come my mama
Speaker 1: can't come. No, no, no, we know how mama. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Michelle and m Rock. I like that. That's gonna be good.
Speaker 1: I'm not a good time. I love it. Last question, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and when you ask this question, you have to help
Speaker 1: us with your answer, so be careful about your answer.
Speaker 1: One guess you'd like to see on All the Smoke?
Speaker 1: I know who? I want you to say? WHOA Okay,
Speaker 1: we need uh and it doesn't matter who I say. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me think. Oh, i'd like to see Barack Obama
Speaker 1: on your show. Great, we're working on that. I can't
Speaker 1: help you to one and he would do it too.
Speaker 1: I was about I was about to say c C
Speaker 1: cynthing Coop, Oh, God, shouldn't do it. In a heartbeat?
Speaker 1: Cooper is gonna show out. Yeah, yeah, I'll seend you.
Speaker 1: I'll send you her info. She would, she would do
Speaker 1: it in a heartbeat. I gotta thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. Um w N b A. If
Speaker 1: you're listening, treat your legends right. God damn it all
Speaker 1: be coming for you. Um but but but thank you
Speaker 1: for your time. Continued blessings will to you and your
Speaker 1: family and best of luck and everything you're doing. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, you guys are awesome. Appreciate it. Much love
Speaker 1: to both of you, Thank you, thank you. That's a wrap.
Speaker 1: Special guest Cheryl Swoops. You can catch this on Showtime Basketball,
Speaker 1: YouTube and the I Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see
Speaker 1: you all next week. This is all a Smoke, a
Speaker 1: production of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in
Speaker 1: partnership with Showtime