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Speaker 1: Welcome to Out of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're declaring that financial independence exists on a spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that you said declaring because it makes

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Speaker 2: me think of the Declaration of Independence as well, because

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Speaker 2: what was supposed to make you think of. Of course,

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Speaker 2: this is the fourth of July week. Happy belated fourth

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Speaker 2: of July. Fourth of July was yesterday. Hopefully you were

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Speaker 2: able to take some time off celebrate the fact that

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Speaker 2: we no longer have to pay taxes without representation. Instead

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Speaker 2: we pay taxes with representation.

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Speaker 1: But yes, help everyone more like some swimwear that had

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Speaker 1: the United States flag on it, set out some fireworks,

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Speaker 1: drank a really chrommy beer.

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Speaker 2: That's the only day that it's really acceptable. But this

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Speaker 2: also anytime we get we start getting close to the

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Speaker 2: fourth of July towards Independence Day, it does make us

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Speaker 2: think about financial independence. And today we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about some of the I think some different levels of

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Speaker 2: financial independence that we think are going to be helpful.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about like Barista fire that kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: but some more practical levels of five that we think

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Speaker 2: are going to be incredibly helpful. As you are on

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Speaker 2: your path towards some sense of financial freedom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the stepping stones along the way. And when

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Speaker 1: you can identify those stepping stones, it makes a big

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Speaker 1: difference in how you perceive moving along that path. And

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Speaker 1: not only that, not only in like the psychological run,

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Speaker 1: but it makes a difference in the actions you can

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Speaker 1: take along the way too.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Should we have called it the stepping stones

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Speaker 2: of financial independence then a little more, a little more tame,

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Speaker 2: but okay, So last week we had an ask how

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Speaker 2: to money question that we answered and a listener was

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Speaker 2: asking about how he can negotiate some medical bills, and

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Speaker 2: we physifically mentioned Healthcare blue Book. How it's the site

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Speaker 2: that you can go check out compare the prices of

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Speaker 2: some different procedures. Well, listener Kayla, she actually talked about

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Speaker 2: how she was able to use this other website it's

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Speaker 2: called md save. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She sent us an email, by the way, and anytime,

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Speaker 1: yeah got crackerjack information on the personal finance front, she

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Speaker 1: just an email.

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Speaker 2: I had a money pop wemail dot com. A. We

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Speaker 2: just love knowing what's out there, but mostly because so

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Speaker 2: that we can turn around and share it with you,

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Speaker 2: all of our listeners out there, but she said she

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Speaker 2: was able to pay three times less for an MRI

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Speaker 2: than basically what the average rate of that procedure was

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Speaker 2: going to cost there where she lives. So it's amazing,

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Speaker 2: a massive win. It's hard but not impossible to comparison

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Speaker 2: shop healthcare procedures, and so I love that another website

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Speaker 2: is out there trying to make this opaque area a

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Speaker 2: little bit easier. So big props, big thanks to listener

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Speaker 2: Kayla for mentioning this, and hopefully everybody else can find

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Speaker 2: mdsave dot com a helpful resource. We'll link to it

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Speaker 2: in our show notes for this episode.

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Speaker 1: But man, it's one of those things where I wish

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Speaker 1: it were simpler. I wish it was like Google Shopper

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Speaker 1: kind of thing for healthcare, but they kind of MD

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Speaker 1: save is kind of like they kind of make it

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Speaker 1: like that exactly, so over time as more folks know

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Speaker 1: about it, Like that's what makes Google Shop or Amazon

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Speaker 1: so ubiquitous, is the fact that so many people use it,

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Speaker 1: And it's just the fact that not a lot of

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Speaker 1: people know about some of these different websites.

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Speaker 2: So again, mdsave dot com, Healthcare blue Book. Check them out,

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Speaker 2: especially if you have a non life threatening emergency a

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Speaker 2: procedure that you have to get done. But Joel, let's

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Speaker 2: introduce our beer. Call nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Are go directly to the hospital if you know something

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Speaker 1: like threatening is happening. Yeah, you don't want to be cheap, right,

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Speaker 1: But if it's one of those things where we're like,

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Speaker 1: I got to do this sometime in the next three

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Speaker 1: six months, then you have time to shop.

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Speaker 2: You got time to be frugal. Our beer this episode

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Speaker 2: is by Big Ditch Brewing Company and it's called Hey Burner.

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Speaker 2: It is an American IPA. Looking forward to sharing this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listeners, Liz and Tyler actually sent this one our way.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: They're Buffalo Bills fans apparently, so I don't really care

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Speaker 1: much about the NFL these days, but I hear the

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Speaker 1: Bills are good, so are they. I'm happy for Liz

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Speaker 1: and Tyler. Good for them, and maybe I'll root for

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Speaker 1: them because the Falcains are always bad. But let's move on, Matt,

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Speaker 1: let's get to the subject at hand. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: financial independence and how it exists on a spectrum, the

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Speaker 1: stepping stones really of financial independence, and it makes me

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Speaker 1: think speaking of sports, talking about football, this topic made

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Speaker 1: me think about the home run obsession of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: eight that took over the whole country. You were alive then,

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Speaker 1: we were like fourteen years old or over that. Wow, No,

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Speaker 1: you were older than that. You were probably sixteen. I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well but Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire, those are

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Speaker 1: the two eyeballs on those two guys more than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: And granted, yes, it was all fueled by steroids and

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Speaker 1: corked baths and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But home runs, well, we didn't know it at the time,

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Speaker 2: and you're like ruining all the fun.

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Speaker 1: So we all thought it was great and it was good,

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Speaker 1: wholesome fun when't really not quite. But yeah, home runs

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Speaker 1: kind of became the only meaningful metric in the sport

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Speaker 1: of baseball, which in my mind, actually made it a

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Speaker 1: whole lot more boring. A lot of people were super

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Speaker 1: into it. I thought the opposite was true, because doubles,

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Speaker 1: stolen bases, shoe string catches, that to me is the

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Speaker 1: fun stuff about baseball. The four hundred and fifty foot bomb, though,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's done on repeat, it gets boring after

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Speaker 1: a while. I get that it's you know, it's like okay,

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Speaker 1: because we'll sit there and watch the Daytona five hundred.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Americans, Yeah, it's the same thing happening over

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Speaker 1: and that's why Formula one is more interesting than Nascar.

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Speaker 1: I agree, don't shoot the messenger, but the home run

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Speaker 1: really is an all or nothing approach. And some folks

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Speaker 1: they take that same approach to financial independence. They come

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Speaker 1: up with a fine number right in amount they need

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Speaker 1: to save up in order to bag work completely. But

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Speaker 1: the truth is, financial independence exist on more of a spectrum.

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Speaker 1: It is not an all or nothing thing, and we

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Speaker 1: believe that thinking about it in that way is going

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Speaker 1: to help you from a mental and from a financial perspective.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Plus, nothing is more American than talking about baseball.

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Speaker 2: Forget the Formula one comment, everybody out there's a good

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Speaker 2: example here with the baseball analogy. And actually, we just

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Speaker 2: went to our our first Braise game of the year

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Speaker 2: the other nights. We had a great time. Speaking of

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Speaker 2: home runs, and Bray's been hit and a lot of

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Speaker 2: home runs lately. Yeah, they had an insane number of

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Speaker 2: them last month. Right, But go big or go home, like,

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Speaker 2: it's got a certain ring to it, right, like a

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Speaker 2: nice rallying cry, but it's also not really all that practical.

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Speaker 2: And one of the problems with that go big or

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Speaker 2: go home approach is that it can make when it

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Speaker 2: comes to money and we're talking about financial independence here,

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Speaker 2: is that it can make financial independence seem unattainable, that

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Speaker 2: it is just out of reach of the typical American.

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Speaker 2: It's all or nothing, and because of that, you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to put your nose to the grindstone for

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Speaker 2: a long stinking time before you can accomplish that goal

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Speaker 2: or if something like Another problem too is like if

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Speaker 2: something is unattainable and you just feel or believe that

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Speaker 2: you can't do it, what do you do? Typically you

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Speaker 2: give up? Right, It's kind of the other side of

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Speaker 2: the coin here, but it can be I think, just

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Speaker 2: as disheartening. But what if you thought about financial independence

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Speaker 2: as a spectrum instead something that you are gradually achieving

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Speaker 2: more of. We think that that is a healthy approach

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Speaker 2: that is also going to accelerate your progress.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it deserves a brief mention here

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Speaker 1: real quick math that money is not the only kind

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Speaker 1: of wealth. That is this is how to money. We

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Speaker 1: talked about money a lot.

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Speaker 2: But this is like the disclaimer before we launch into

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Speaker 2: credit card benefits their credit.

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Speaker 1: Card rewards exactly. Yeah, and obviously that's what we focus

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Speaker 1: on the show. But wealth is really I guess if

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Speaker 1: you're going to give it, it's the most basic definition

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Speaker 1: would be something like an abundance of resources. And that

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Speaker 1: doesn't specifically have to mean US dollars, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it can mean a whole lot of things. And even

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Speaker 1: though we want How to Money listeners to become wealthy

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Speaker 1: from a money perspective, building up savings and investments, we

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Speaker 1: also want you to enjoy wealth and abundance in all

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Speaker 1: those sectors.

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Speaker 2: Of your life that matter.

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Speaker 1: And so the truth is focusing intently on money as

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Speaker 1: the only source of wealth that you care about that

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Speaker 1: will likely prevent you from attaining wealth in other important areas.

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Speaker 1: So there's this recent Schwab survey Matt about how people

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Speaker 1: perceive wealth and if they found that the wealth looks

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Speaker 1: a lot more like not having to stress over money

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Speaker 1: than having a lot of money, which I think speaks

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Speaker 1: exactly to what we're talking about here. A Scrooge McDuck

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Speaker 1: esque amount of money so that you can swim in

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Speaker 1: it is not really what people are after. Most people

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Speaker 1: are after not stressing about money, and that is the

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Speaker 1: cool thing I think about this spectrum is that it

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Speaker 1: destresses you and how you relate to your finances more

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Speaker 1: and more over time. And so that's a better way

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Speaker 1: of thinking about growing your wealth than amassing the biggest

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Speaker 1: number possible.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. And even outside of the arena of money, though, like,

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Speaker 2: there are other aspects of life that we think that

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Speaker 2: are important to focus on. Like recently, I think we've

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Speaker 2: talked about the different arenas of life, and actually even

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Speaker 2: more recently, I've come across this framework or this approach

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Speaker 2: to life. It's called the spire approach. I have you

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Speaker 2: ever heard of that it stands for, and it's again

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Speaker 2: it kind of divides your life into different sectors whatever

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Speaker 2: it talks about, like the spiritual, the physical, the intellectual, relationships, emotional.

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Speaker 2: We want to find health in all of these areas

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Speaker 2: in life and what And this was based on research

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Speaker 2: done somewhat recently. But what was interesting about it is

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Speaker 2: that there are lots of different folks who have thought

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Speaker 2: hard and done research into this, and they all kind

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Speaker 2: of come back to these same things. And so it's

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Speaker 2: not like this some new fad or something like that.

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Speaker 2: This is something that rings true I think for all

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Speaker 2: of us. And what was really interesting though, is that

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Speaker 2: money was very much absent from that lineup. And so

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Speaker 2: does that mean we're going to stop talking about money

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Speaker 2: here on the show. No, of course not, because obviously

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Speaker 2: being financially secure allows you to achieve health in a

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Speaker 2: lot of these different areas in life. It's a tool,

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Speaker 2: but oftentimes it can become the focus. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: a tool that we think is the end all be all,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to a means to an end. And so

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Speaker 2: it's worth pointing out that though overall on the show

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Speaker 2: here at How to Money we talk about personal finances,

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Speaker 2: ultimately what we are pushing you to do is to

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Speaker 2: focus on some of these other areas in life that

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Speaker 2: ring true to you, because they're going to be more

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Speaker 2: that are more important to you than the next guy.

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Speaker 1: And that's where this step stone approach makes a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of sense, because instead of viewing it as I

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Speaker 1: gotta have mass one point seven million dollars to actually

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Speaker 1: be financially independent, you're focus then is probably too much

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Speaker 1: on money, money, money, And if you can see it

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Speaker 1: on the stepping stone. Oh, I just made more perker,

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Speaker 1: so I got a little more further thrown this distrection off.

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Speaker 1: I'm achieving more financial independence. It can allow you to

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Speaker 1: be less focused on money overall, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a good thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not just and it shouldn't be that you're just

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Speaker 2: working your butt off until you can finally retire, right

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Speaker 2: potentially when you're far less able to actually enjoy the

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Speaker 2: fruits of your labor, because there are other aspects of

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Speaker 2: health that you have neglected. Specifically, I'm referring to physical

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Speaker 2: health in this case, your nose of the grindstone. Working

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Speaker 2: sixty hours a week, you're missing out on the relational

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Speaker 2: and then the relationship. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, there's all of

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Speaker 2: those areas of life within that spire framework can suffer.

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Speaker 2: If you are overly focused on your net worth.

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Speaker 1: It might have more money, but you're probably less happy,

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Speaker 1: less successful. Yeah, and you are from an overall perspective.

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Speaker 1: You're richer financially, but you're poor in all of the

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Speaker 1: areas that matter much more. And the truth is, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to viewing money or financial independence specifically on

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Speaker 1: a spectrum, your options, they grow with each step that

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Speaker 1: you take with every additional dollar that you are able

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Speaker 1: to bank. Well, it's also important to mention the goal

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Speaker 1: of financial independence isn't just to be able to consume

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Speaker 1: more than you can now. I think some people think that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: more money means who I'm just delaying consumption and where

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Speaker 1: I can go on wild right? Yeah, And it's not

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Speaker 1: about being able to afford more filetmian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And instead of just the plain old cheap chicken thighs

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Speaker 1: or something like that, don't you not chicken thighs. They're great,

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Speaker 1: It makes the best fried chicken. I know, they're actually

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Speaker 1: they're actually cheap but tasty. But even as your level

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Speaker 1: of financial independence grows, it is nice to have more

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Speaker 1: choice from a consumer standpoint, I'll admit to that. But

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Speaker 1: the true goal of having more money in the bank

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Speaker 1: is more about being able to choose the life you want,

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Speaker 1: choosing the life you want to live, what you do

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Speaker 1: with your time, and thinking about financial independence on this

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Speaker 1: spectrum that we're going to kind of.

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Speaker 2: Lay out here.

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Speaker 1: It makes it easier to adjust your goals as your

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Speaker 1: life changes.

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Speaker 2: Too.

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Speaker 1: For instans like having kids, it might mean you want

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Speaker 1: to work less, and if you have gotten a couple

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Speaker 1: more steps down the road on that path to financial independence.

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Speaker 1: You can make that choice, and that is something you

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Speaker 1: can do in your thirties, as opposed to saying thinking

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Speaker 1: of financial independence, just as this long distance destination that

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Speaker 1: you're working towards makes me think Matt of that old

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Speaker 1: parable of the fishermen, right, and oh, yes, he's enjoyed

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Speaker 1: fishing all day, sells a few of the fish, cracks

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Speaker 1: a beer up on with his buddies, and someone comes

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Speaker 1: along and says, you could start a business out of

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Speaker 1: this if we These fish that you catch are phenomenal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: gotta expand yeah, And then he's like, ultimately, the goal

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Speaker 1: is to get back to the exact life he's living now, right,

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Speaker 1: which is fishing for a few hours, selling the fish,

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Speaker 1: having beers with his friends, enjoying his community and his family.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that can put it in perspective too.

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Speaker 1: I think that parable is really indicative of what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are after they're working their butt off

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Speaker 1: and they're wasting actually some of these precious years they're

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Speaker 1: working too hard for money and hopes that they can

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Speaker 1: have some sort of leisurely retirement as opposed to incorporating

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Speaker 1: some of that leisure, some of that joy now exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the nuts and bolts here for

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Speaker 1: a second. Because the way it works, you move up

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Speaker 1: the financial independent spectrum by doing a few different things simultaneously. Right,

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Speaker 1: It takes pay down debt, it takes saving your money,

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Speaker 1: and then beyond that, it takes investing your money. And

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Speaker 1: if you're plugging away at all three things simultaneously, which

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Speaker 1: most of us are, well, you're going to be increasing

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Speaker 1: your net worth, you're going to be increasing your liquidity

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Speaker 1: over time, and you're eliminating more of these ongoing monthly obligations.

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Speaker 1: But clearly your money metrics are improving over the months

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Speaker 1: and over the years of doing the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: that should mean that you get to experience higher levels

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Speaker 1: of freedom and autonomy along the way. It shouldn't just

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Speaker 1: be reserved for quitting work altogether and waiting and only

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Speaker 1: realizing that the at the end of the road that

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Speaker 1: there's some sort of prize, some sort of metal that

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Speaker 1: you're going to be able to attain. Yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: no metal for a financial I know from what I've seen.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen anyone get a metal. If I do,

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Speaker 1: I'll let you know, but there's no trophies or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, and so really it is all about your

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Speaker 1: mindset and your approach. And I think, unfortunately, Matt, most

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Speaker 1: people when they think about financial independence, they associated with

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Speaker 1: a go big or go home mindset. They is associated

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Speaker 1: with that all or nothing mentality, the home run or

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Speaker 1: nothing right or a strikeout, which is what actually makes

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Speaker 1: baseball more boring these days. Although it is quicker, the

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Speaker 1: games were quicker, like the one we went to two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours. That was nice just because of

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Speaker 1: that pitchclock. Man, I know, I think the thing is,

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Speaker 1: it's not that crushing a homer isn't a bad thing, right,

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Speaker 1: and makes me think of this old true Braves player

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Speaker 1: Rafael Billyard. I think he played for like sixteen years

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Speaker 1: and he literally hit two home runs in his entire career.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he's glad that he hit a couple homers

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Speaker 1: and like didn't never hit one right the entire time

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Speaker 1: he was in the league. Dude, he was like so

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Speaker 1: small and he choked up on the bat and so

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Speaker 1: he was like a slap single kind of hitter. But

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Speaker 1: he was quick and he was good on defense. So

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Speaker 1: it's not that we're against your ability to make big strides, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: And I think getting to the point where you can

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Speaker 1: actually quit work altogether and completely living off your nest egg.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for that is part of the spectrum that

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Speaker 1: is the home run. Yes, yeah, but usually you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get there through a You're going to round the bases

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Speaker 1: through a single, a stolen base, and then the RBI

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Speaker 1: hit to get you in, right, So it's gonna.

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Speaker 2: And that's what most guys do. Like that's what they

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Speaker 2: call it, manufacturing runs. Yeah, that's that's like the majority

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Speaker 2: of baseball is that. And like we were lucky enough

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Speaker 2: to see a couple of homers the other night as well,

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Speaker 2: And it's it is a ton of fun. You just

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Speaker 2: want you just want a little bit of everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a ton of fun. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, if that is all that you were

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Speaker 2: going for, it would make for honestly just a boring

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Speaker 2: sport to watch, Yes, it would. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We think if that's the only thing you're focused on,

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Speaker 1: the home run or the ultimate number, you're missing out

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Speaker 1: on a whole lot in between. So that's why we

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Speaker 1: think it is worth laying out all of these different

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Speaker 1: stages along the way on your on your way to

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Speaker 1: ultimate financial independence. We will delineate, we will lay out

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Speaker 1: that spectrum how that should impact your savings and investing habits,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to all that right after this.

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back and we're probably done with

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Speaker 2: all of the baseball now, actually we're probably not. We're

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Speaker 2: refer to it again.

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Speaker 1: Probably people out there listening and they're like, I could care,

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Speaker 1: Like I.

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Speaker 2: Thought magical, we're like soccer guys. Hey, we are still

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Speaker 2: soccer guys, but we just it was fun to go

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Speaker 2: to a base I had like, that was literally my

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Speaker 2: first game that I had been to at the at

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Speaker 2: truest part. Oh, I didn't know that was your first. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I've been outside it before, like K and I the battery.

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Speaker 2: There's like restaurants and stuff that. So we've done date

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Speaker 2: nights there before, but we've never I've never actually been

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Speaker 2: to a game there. I almost said match, never a

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Speaker 2: match there. Yeah, but let's go ahead now discuss some

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Speaker 2: of these different levels of financial independence, the ones that

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Speaker 2: we think are important to identify.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, these are proprietary terms we've come up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nobody influenced us. We came up with with these This

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Speaker 1: is the spectrum that had money guys have to have outlined,

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: And at the very bottom of the spectrum is what

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Speaker 2: we're gonna call No. Five. This means that you're likely

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Speaker 2: living paycheck to paycheck. You literally zero financial freedom, and

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Speaker 2: you are completely dependent on your job, your job, the

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Speaker 2: whims of your employer. And this is actually a big

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Speaker 2: chunk of Americans, as we all know too well. This

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Speaker 2: is the forty plus percent of folks who can't afford

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Speaker 2: a four hundred dollars unexpected expense.

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Speaker 1: We see that number come out every year, it gets updated,

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Speaker 1: and it's always right in that vicinity.

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Speaker 2: And here's the thing, though, like, this is where everyone

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Speaker 2: starts unless maybe like your trust fund baby, trust fund baby,

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Speaker 2: if you were born with a silver spin in your mouth.

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Speaker 2: But given honestly, like, given the cold reality of student

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Speaker 2: loan debt in our country, a giant swath of young

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Speaker 2: folks out there are starting out just in a bigger

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Speaker 2: hole than just no FI. Right, It's not that they're

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Speaker 2: starting at zero, they're actually starting off with that negative

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Speaker 2: net worth. Yeah, but when you are no FI, well,

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Speaker 2: you don't have any options available to you. Because you

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Speaker 2: got to keep working for that next paycheck. No work

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Speaker 2: means no money. You don't have the options, and you

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Speaker 2: literally have no financial independence. And you said this where

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Speaker 2: people start, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's no

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Speaker 2: shame in that game. This is the reality for most

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Speaker 2: people as they're beginning out. No shame.

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Speaker 1: I wish I look back to my early years. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I was no five for a while, man.

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Speaker 2: Like we should maybe we should have come up with

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Speaker 2: like beyond that, like negative five or something like, because

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Speaker 2: that's technically folks who are coming out of its probably

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Speaker 2: well with loans. Yes, if only I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks are probably thinking that if only I could

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Speaker 2: have graduated and had a net worth of zero, But

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Speaker 2: in fact I had a negative networth. I have twenty

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Speaker 2: six thousand dollars or forty six whatever it is, So

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Speaker 2: we get it.

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Speaker 1: Just trying to get back to zero is that in

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Speaker 1: and of itself a difficult thing, And that is part

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Speaker 1: of the stepping stone is saying, like, listen, I got

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Speaker 1: to get beyond I got to get beyond here. And

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Speaker 1: so the next step, the next place you're gonna want

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Speaker 1: to venture on your five spectrum journey is you want

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Speaker 1: to get the credit card five. That's what we're calling it,

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Speaker 1: you know, because really, how long you end up hanging

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Speaker 1: out at each of these stages of financial independence is

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Speaker 1: kind of up to you. It's up to your actions.

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Speaker 1: It's how up to how quickly you're able to pay

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Speaker 1: off debt to save more. It's up to how quickly

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Speaker 1: you're able to increase your income, right. And so do

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Speaker 1: you fall into a rut of living paycheck to paycheck,

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Speaker 1: staying there for longer than you otherwise should, or are

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Speaker 1: you immediately trying to create some margin in order to

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Speaker 1: advance to the next stage of financial independence, which is

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Speaker 1: this credit card five? Right?

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Speaker 2: Right? That's how you get from no FI to credit

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Speaker 2: card for yes, you got it, I said, fry five. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it involves habits, right, and it involves making changes,

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Speaker 1: it little tweaks to each one of these these each

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Speaker 1: one of these things. And so this is this is

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Speaker 1: when you still don't have much credit card FI, but

435
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: you've amassed enough to give yourself some basic breathing room, right,

436
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: and most importantly, you're no longer dependent on your credit

437
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: cards when unexpected expenses crop up. And there's a reason

438
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 1: Matt that our first money gear is to have a

439
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: basic emergency fund set aside, where you have two thousand,

440
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty seven dollars in the bank at

441
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 1: your disposal. And you know, we're all for using credit

442
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: cards wisely, you and me, that's what we recommend, but

443
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 1: we don't want them to become a crutch something you

444
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: have to rely on when a few unexpected expenses pop

445
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 1: up in your life.

446
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, And once you've got that basic emergency

447
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 2: fund on hand, it's going to feel like you're finally

448
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: able to take a time out where you can get

449
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 2: a sip of water in a quick rest after having

450
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 2: around the basketball corps for most of the first half

451
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 2: more sports references. We're switching it up at you. It's

452
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 2: not ideal, right, like you still want to have maybe

453
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: a longer rest at halftime, but at least it's something

454
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 2: that's where the stage of financial independence gets you. It's

455
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,159
Speaker 2: a it's a fairly low bar, but considering where so

456
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 2: many Americans are with their finances, it's what a lot

457
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: of folks need to be aiming for, right, Like, just

458
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 2: getting to this point it can relieve a lot of stress.

459
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 2: And we're not just talking about folks who are making

460
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 2: minimum wage. We're talking about high wage earners as well.

461
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 2: I think, like the it's a majority of folks who

462
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,959
Speaker 2: make more than one hundred thousand dollars are living paycheck

463
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 2: to paycheck. It's like fifty one percent or something like that.

464
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 2: And so we're not just picking on folks who are

465
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: maybe either just starting out in their career or folks

466
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 2: who have a job where hey, man, I'm just not

467
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 2: going to make a ton of money here.

468
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: No.

469
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 2: No, we're talking to folks who make good money, but

470
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: even still they are making the same mistakes with.

471
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: Their with their financi Yeah, they're outspending their paycheck even

472
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: though that paycheck is relatively large. The next step along

473
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: the way is achieving what we call layoff I and

474
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: this is the next level to shoot for on the

475
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: how to money financial independent spectrum because it's when you

476
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: not only have that base amount of twenty four hundred

477
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: and sixty seven dollars saved up, it's when you have

478
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 1: a fully funded emergency fund. And so yeah, this is

479
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: basically when you have three to six months worth of

480
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: expenses on hand in that savings account, you know whether

481
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: you should have the leaner three months or the fat

482
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: or six months. That really depends on a number of things,

483
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: one of which is do you live in a two

484
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: income household or not. I think if if that's the case, yeah,

485
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: you can have a little bit less stocked away in

486
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: savings if you are.

487
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: Do you have tenure at the university where you teach, right,

488
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: maybe it'll be okay.

489
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: It's like now I could literally punch the dean in

490
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: the face and I would still retain my job. You

491
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: might not need to have quite as much on hand.

492
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: It depends on your risk tolerance, right, like how comfortable

493
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: you are with your your income dropping or if you

494
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: are willing or capable honestly of cutting back on your

495
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: within your expenses, were you to earn less money, and

496
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: that there's so many different things you have to take

497
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: into account because that is something that you may have

498
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: been more willing to do or more capable of doing

499
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: back before you had kids, But now you have kids,

500
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 1: and man, there are certain expenses that are necessary for

501
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: me to go work, like childcare that's not that we

502
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: got to pay for or yeah, all important things to

503
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 1: keep in money exactly. I think that's a great point,

504
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: and we're calling this layoff five because that bare bonesy

505
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: fund that's not going to get you very far if

506
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: you lose your job. Yeah, right, but beyond that initial

507
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: savings threshold that we want you to achieve, having layoff

508
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: five money on hand, you know, in your bank account,

509
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: that'll smooth out some of those bigger bumps in life,

510
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: like getting fired. Right if you do punch someone in

511
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: the face of your job or hopefully just laid off,

512
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: hopefully there's no violence involved. We're also not advocating for violence, right,

513
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: don't punch anybody, don't do that. But yeah, unless you are, Yeah,

514
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: Elon Muska or I haven't talked about that, you're on

515
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: the show yet. But if then, when that does happen,

516
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: we're there for it. I'll be watching the most unentertaining

517
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: actual fight, but the build up in human history, right, Well,

518
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean this is yeah, hopefully you're not getting fired,

519
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: you're just getting laid off. And even then we obviously

520
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: don't want that. But you want to be prepared for

521
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: the potential of a layoff because they happen.

522
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: Right.

523
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: An unexpected layoff is one of those things that can

524
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: set you back in your financial progress meaningfully, and a

525
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: few months of not being at a job can make

526
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: it can make it feel like it sets you back

527
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: years in your finances. By the way, Matt, I know

528
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: this from personal experience, not from my own layoff, but

529
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: from my dad being laid off when we were kids.

530
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: That was a tough thing to come back from and

531
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: it really really can. It can derail a career. And

532
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: so you just having that layoff five money doesn't make

533
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: it easy to get that news, but it does make

534
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: it less financially obtrusive. And so if you haven't socked

535
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: away a big savings nest egg, it's a precarious feeling

536
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: to get laid off. That's what we want people to have,

537
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: is like more money on hand to then be able

538
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: to endure the bigger roadbumps throws at you.

539
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't feel good living on the edge like that,

540
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: and largely because those bigger there's more jarring events like

541
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: a layoff would throw you into an adverse financial state

542
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But having this much on hand, it also

543
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: ensures that you can take a little more time before

544
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: you have to commit to a new job. And so

545
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: whether that means just maybe getting a little bit of rest,

546
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, taking a couple of weeks off or just

547
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: allowing you to turn down a job that's not necessarily

548
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: ideal because you have some savings to back you up.

549
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: You know, you've got that fully funded emergency fund of

550
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: three to six months of living expenses set aside having

551
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: achieved layoff. I this is a clutch stage as you

552
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: are ratcheting, as you're moving along that financial independence spectrum. Yeah.

553
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: I had a friend who lost his job a couple

554
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: of years ago, and I just remember being so bummed

555
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: that he didn't have like layoff five status because he

556
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: had to take the first job that came along and

557
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: it paid less than the one he had just lost.

558
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: And that's a tough spot to be in. If you

559
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: have extra month's worth of expenses, you can be a

560
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: little pick here, and I think that can that can

561
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: ultimately help you rebound and ensure that your career stays intact.

562
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: And the financial independence and where you're at on your journey,

563
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: the financial independence makes a big difference in the choices

564
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: you can make or that you're forced.

565
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: To make in the moment. Absolutely all right.

566
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: Next on the spectrum is peace out FI. That's what

567
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: we're calling it. We've talked about peace out money before

568
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: that's some people call it fu money, but we're more

569
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: tactful than those people, Matt, And so yeah, I think

570
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: this is really when someone has saved beyond six months

571
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: of living expenses. So maybe that is layoff I is

572
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: up to six months, and then beyond that is like okay,

573
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: your peace out fi And instead of just being prepared

574
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: for a layoff, now you can even engineer your own

575
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: layoff that's what you want to do, and still best

576
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: to give two weeks of notice. You don't want to

577
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: intentionally burn bridges. And that's why we don't call it

578
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: fu money, because peace out money just sounds like you're

579
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: doing it in a peaceful, joyous way, as opposed to

580
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: throwing a molotop cocktail through the door, taking it to

581
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: the main as you leave, right Yeah, and so yeah

582
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: you can though, and you should feel the freedom to

583
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: step away from a job for things like health health reasons,

584
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: or to take care of an ailing parent or a spouse.

585
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: Rather than taking a more passive role in your employment

586
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: and hoping that you're not next on the chopping block,

587
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: you're actively steering the car of your own life towards

588
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: what others might see as a financial Cliff. But they

589
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: don't know that you've achieved peace out five. They don't

590
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: know that you've got the financial wherewithal and the dollars

591
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: in the bank account to back you up. Even if

592
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: you're like you know, it makes me think of even

593
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: being able to negotiate your own layoff, Matt. We talked

594
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: about that with Sam Dogan, the financial Samurai at one point.

595
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: And if you've got cash in the bank and you

596
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 1: see riding on the wall, things aren't good at your employer. Hey,

597
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: you know what you could volunteer is tribute negotiate a

598
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: pretty sweet severance package, and that, combined with the amount

599
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: of money you've been able to save, you can piece out.

600
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: For a while. Yeah, that gives you even more runway

601
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: to make the decisions that you think are going to

602
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: be best not only for you and your life, but

603
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: for your family and ultimately well yeah I should have

604
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: said ultimately your family, but but I was gonna say

605
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: your career as well, and kind of what direction you

606
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: want to go in. But this, this level of financial independence,

607
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: this level of five, also comes with more power to

608
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: push back and you know, going back to avoiding the

609
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: all or nothing mindset, you also don't have to completely

610
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: quit when something is going on at work, when something

611
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: happens that you're not a fan of, but you can

612
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: if you just can't stomach your boss, or if you

613
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: can't handle the insufferable hours anymore.

614
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: It's like Office Space, I'm gonna need you to come

615
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: in on It's like if you don't bother coming on Saturday,

616
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: don't come in on Sunday. Yeah, And that's a at

617
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: that point when you're peace, how high you can be

618
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: like Okay, now that's too much, I'm gone.

619
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: You really can at that point. Yeah. But like what

620
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: we're talking about here though, is just the ability, like

621
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: the confidence that you might have to start having some

622
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: conversations because this level of financial freedom can just help

623
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: you to negotiate for the things that you really want.

624
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: And it's going to be easier to negotiate successfully when

625
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: you really can walk away if in case they call

626
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: your bluff and they're like, no, I'm sorry, that's not

627
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: going to work, and you can say, all right, well

628
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: then this isn't gonna work out for memore, you can

629
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: kind of really exhibit that Peter and Office bade Space

630
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: degree of apathy. You know, that cool con collected. Okay, cool,

631
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: let it roll off your back like a duck when

632
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: you when you're piece out five, you really can just

633
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 2: be like, okay, that's great, no worries, but you don't

634
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: necessarily work for me now. You don't have to smash

635
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 2: up any equipment now, but you have the ability, like

636
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 2: you said to on this one again too, Sorry about that.

637
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: That's the whole office space thing. Let's talk about the

638
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 2: next stage of five, which is sabbatical FI. It's sort

639
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: of like a peace out FI, but on steroids. So

640
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: this means you can take an extended absence from work

641
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: and be just fine. It means that if you quit,

642
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: you're not immediately looking for a new gig like you

643
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,239
Speaker 2: would with with peace Off five. Typically, with peace hop

644
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: five you are walked peacefully walking away from that job.

645
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: You're saying peace out. But typically it means you're like,

646
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: all right, maybe i'll sit low, you know, kind of

647
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: chill out for a little bit, but I'm gonna start

648
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: looking from a next job. Yeah. Not so. With sabbatical fire,

649
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: you're actually able to enjoy a lengthy period of rest

650
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: and you might even have enough on hand to completely

651
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: change what it is that your your life and your

652
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: career looks like so like we're not really talking about

653
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: it like a simple extended vacation that your employer might offer,

654
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, like they might call taking four weeks off

655
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: a sabbatical, and that's not really the definition that we're

656
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: going after here, Like what's out the heart of what

657
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: we're calling sabbatical FI is the ability almost to reinvent yourself.

658
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: This is when you have the freedom to change course

659
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: in your career. Like, it's when you can fulfill a

660
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: desire to go back to school and to learn something new.

661
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: It's it's when you have the confidence to start a

662
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: new business. These are all bigger things than just being

663
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: able to say, peace out, I'm going to go find

664
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: another job. Sabbatical FI is like who am I? It's

665
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: not sitting on the curb moment and you're asking God

666
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: what it is that you should do next?

667
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and yeah, four weeks What a pitiful sabbatical? People,

668
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: that's really eight weeks is like the minimum of sabbaticals

669
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: should be. In my opinion, I was glad. I don't

670
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: know how I came across this website. I think it

671
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: was called Sabbatical Guide and popped up when I was

672
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: researching sabbatical and evidently according to folks who are there

673
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: on his website that interact and stuff, the average length

674
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: of sabbat time for sabbatical was eight months, okayow, which

675
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: I was really happy to see. Very impressive at.

676
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: Least the folks who are looking trying to find sabbatical guidance,

677
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: that's what that's average for them. So I was happy

678
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: to And that's if you were speaking to is the

679
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: fact that there is a way this isn't just taking

680
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: a long leave of absence from your work, but sort

681
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: of like what's the next stage of my career, like

682
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: what attend I want to do?

683
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: That happens for people because they're burned out, and this

684
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: should not This should be more proactive, right, It should

685
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: be more like I'm choosing this as opposed to I

686
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: can't take it anymore, right, And it.

687
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: Doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive, you know, like, because

688
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: you might find yourself in that situation as well, all

689
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: different flavors.

690
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: Sure well, And okay, so the sabbatical five makes me

691
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: think of our friend Chad Carson in front of the show.

692
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: We've had him on before, We're gonna have him on again.

693
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: Actually soon, because he's written a new book about real estate,

694
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: and he's done multiple year long stints, sabbaticals essentially with

695
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: his family. He's still working a little doing his small

696
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: business thing, which he can do from anywhere in the

697
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 1: world that he wants. And I think that sort of

698
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: choice it sounds impossible for most folks, But if you

699
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: have handled your finance as well, if you've kept your

700
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: expenses low, if you've been saving it a high clip,

701
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: and you've got enough cash or passive income in the

702
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: case of Chad who's invested in real estate, you can

703
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: really make this a reality. He takes the opportunity to

704
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: go to a different country when he does this, and

705
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: the first time he did it was South America. This

706
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: time around, it was a year in Spain, and so

707
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: it creates a cultural experience for his kids and for

708
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: him too, like living in a walkable city that he

709
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: never you know, he might have got to visit for

710
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, but he got a whole year there,

711
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: maybe got to develop a community. I can't wait to

712
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: talk to him about it. I know, I'm so excited

713
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: to just really hear about all the details. But this

714
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: is the kind of thing where sabbatical FI can really

715
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: if you hit this point, he gives you the option

716
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: to do something and crazy that most of your friends

717
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: would be like, how in the world are you even

718
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: able to do that? And so much of it it

719
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: becomes possible from one a mindset change to thinking, oh,

720
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: I can get there, but also through handling your finances

721
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: in such a way that you have enough money to

722
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: really make this possible without freaking out right, that's right.

723
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: But okay, this brings up the question, Matt, of saving

724
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: versus investing, because we've talked a lot about cash in

725
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: the bank, and that is certainly part of it. Some

726
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: of it has to be liquid, but in order to

727
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: grow your wealth for ultimate financial independence, you got to

728
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: invest it too. So we're going to talk about the

729
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: dichotomy of that and explain our last steps and really

730
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: how to think about financial independence. We'll get to all

731
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: that right after this.

732
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: All right, let's continue our journey along the spectrum of

733
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: financial independence. And you kind of you know, you mentioned

734
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: this right before the break, but like all of the

735
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: levels that we've talked about up until now, all the

736
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: different levels of FI, they basically require having cash in

737
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: the bank, Like you need to be able to tap

738
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: those reserves basically if something happens, because honestly, a lot

739
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: of the things that we discussed, you are reacting to something, right,

740
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: like whether it's an emergency that pops up, whether it

741
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: is oh Man, conditions at work just got pretty terrible.

742
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: Like I think maybe the sabbatical FI is one of

743
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: the ones that you can plan for, maybe a little

744
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: bit further in advance.

745
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: It makes me thinking about my last job. Some sort

746
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: of ruthless private equity firm bought out the radio station

747
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: that worked for and it changed the entire dynamic of

748
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: working there. And so people were like, if you had

749
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: the financial ability, you might have been looking for something

750
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: else whereas you might have been stuck in place. And

751
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: this is why too, You're right, You're what you're speaking

752
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: to is four one K money doesn't help you nearly

753
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: as much in that situation as liquid cash.

754
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: So it's I mean, there's a catch twenty two, right,

755
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: because you need to have that cash on hand in

756
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: order to achieve some of these different levels of FI

757
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: that we've talked about. But if you aren't investing for

758
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: the long haul, well how are you going to who

759
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: actually retire? How are you going to be able to

760
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: reach that ultimate level of financial independence. We're all about

761
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: those tax advanage retirement accounts, but you can't access those

762
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: until you reach the ripal age of fifty nine and

763
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: a half. So if you sock everything away into those accounts,

764
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: despite your growing network, you are going to be less

765
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: likely to feel like that you're moving along the financial

766
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: independence spectrum because you are. It's almost a problem that

767
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: these different financial products that they have created, right, because

768
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: they are created in such a way that there is

769
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: a finish line, there is this goal, this award that

770
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: you receive, which is the quote unquote retirement that so

771
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: many folks are used to the ability to draw down

772
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 2: on those funds exactly. And so there's this structure in

773
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: place that encourages us to think about financial independence in

774
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: this way. So, honestly, it's no wonder that this is

775
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 2: a something that we're talking about because we think is important.

776
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: But the reason we're talking about it is because we

777
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: think it's a problem that the that there are so

778
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: many folks who think that the only way to consider

779
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: themselves financially independent is if they have enough in the

780
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: bank to actually retire. Yeah, and that's why it takes

781
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: more than just tax advantage retirement accounts to get you

782
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: further along this five spectrum. And so I think really

783
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: the right way to think about the saving verse investing

784
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: conundrum in the financial independence spectrum it is to take

785
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: the both and approach and yeah, yeah, is to remove

786
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: the dichotomy. It's not like whatever versus whatever. It's like

787
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: and yes, it's more like improv yeah exactly, Yeah, the

788
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 2: yes and approach and as opposed to like it being

789
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: this this battle. Yeah, sort of like not to your

790
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: off course. But it's how we talk about roth versus tradition.

791
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: I thought you're going back to baseball, No, no, going

792
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: to boxing now it's it's it's how we talk about

793
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: roth versus traditional accounts. It's like, well, if you at

794
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: a certain point, yes, consider both, because the ability to

795
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: diversify your tax liability down the road, that's huge. Yeah.

796
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: And on the boxing note, like a butterfly sting that

797
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: could be I think that's maybe the saving and investing. Yeah,

798
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: it's you need both, right, that's Somehamed Ali approach. It

799
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: like yes, right, but you know, I think liquid savings matters,

800
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: but don't shoot for eighteen months worth of savings before

801
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: you invest your first time. That would not be the

802
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: approach we would advise.

803
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: It would be a touch on near sided. Yeah, exactly.

804
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: We actually want you investing as soon as you hit

805
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: credit card five, right, which is early on in that

806
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: financial independence spectrum. Once you've got a basic stash of

807
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars, you do want

808
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: to start funneling money towards investments. You do want to

809
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: make sure you're at minimum getting the match on that

810
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: four to roh one k before you start saving more, right,

811
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Because savings alone isn't going to get you to the

812
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: ultimate stop to on your destination, right, You've got to

813
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: experience compounding returns over a longer period of time if

814
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: you want to achieve full financial independence, which is ultimately

815
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: where we want you to end up, even though you're

816
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: hitting those sweet spots along the way and enjoying greater

817
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: levels of financial independence over the years.

818
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 2: That's right, man. Yeah, So the last stop on the

819
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: financial independence spectrum is when you can achieve full and

820
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: ultimate financial independence. We didn't really come up with the

821
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: acute a short Q see full monty financial independent, Like,

822
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: we didn't come up with anything like that. But if

823
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 2: that is you, congrats, because at this point the world

824
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 2: is your oyster. You never have to work again if

825
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: you don't want to. Interestingly enough, there lets most folks do,

826
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: especially if they are still young. They do want to

827
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: do some sort of work, but they just might want

828
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: to do less of it, and they might want to

829
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: enjoy whatever it is that they do a little bit more.

830
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: They might want to have a little more flexibility to

831
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: truly say, yeah, no, thank you, I'm going to work

832
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: the hours I want to work. Does that work for you?

833
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: If not, then I'm gonna have to bounce. Yeah. And

834
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: even once you've achieved this level, you might still want

835
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: to find ways to grow your net worth because maybe

836
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: you've got goals of generational wealth. Maybe you want to

837
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: be super philanthropic. These are all other things to keep

838
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: in mind as well. It doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't

839
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: mean you have to retire and you know, sit lemonade

840
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: or sweet tea on the front porch while you watch

841
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: all the young UN's out there play that sound nice though, yeah,

842
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: sound sorry at least occasionally, right, So I want to

843
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 2: be active and doing stuff, But I agree, Yeah, financial

844
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: independence it means maybe at like three o'clock after you've

845
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: worked a nice solid five hours. Yeah, you know, like

846
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 2: you can still work. You can still have your sweet

847
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: tea in the rocking chair on the porch. Yeah, cracker

848
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: barrel style, that's you. That's what you want, Joel. I

849
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: just want the giant checkers mat. That's what I want. Well.

850
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: I think the point you're making here is that work

851
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: still holds value even if you don't do it and

852
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: you don't need it for the money, because there are

853
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: other goals you can have saving up more and some

854
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: of that might be just the impact that you're having

855
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: based on the work that you're doing, or you might

856
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: want to yet do volunteer work instead. I mean, there's

857
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: all sorts of options when you get to this point

858
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: of like full and complete five whatever we're calling it.

859
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: We really should have come up with a better name

860
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: on this one, but last we got lazy fully five,

861
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: that's what we'll call it.

862
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: Fully fine. Yeah, I got the role with that.

863
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about this as we're kind of

864
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: like starting around this episode out and finishing up here.

865
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: I think it's important to mention that because financial independence

866
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: is on a spectrum, we want you to find ways

867
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: to exploit where you are on that road to financial independence.

868
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Right as you continue to gain and accrue more of it,

869
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: start to ask questions like what do you want your

870
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: days to look like? What do you want your weeks

871
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: to look like? Because we would suggest that you really

872
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: are able to morph and change your life more than

873
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: you think along the way, that this is the real

874
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: power behind realizing that financial independence is a spectrum because

875
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: you can take advantage of the progress you've made with

876
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: each step that you take. The ultimate goal is not

877
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: dying with millions in the bank, and in fact, I

878
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: would suggest that is a rather pitiful goal to have.

879
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: So don't be afraid to lean into your financial independence

880
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: level and enjoy the benefits of it, saying if you

881
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: continue to think of it as this all or nothing equation,

882
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: you probably won't find and you won't be able to

883
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: appreciate the progress that you're making.

884
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: Along the way. You know, maybe we should this is

885
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: not an honor off switch. It's a dimmer switch. Maybe

886
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: we should call financial independence is a dimmer switch. It's

887
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: even more milk toast than stepping stones. Right, But there's

888
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 2: a fine line between lifestyle and what essentially what we're

889
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: saying here, which is realizing your wealth, right, Because on one,

890
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: on one hand, you are just being kind of carried

891
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: away by the culture, the currents of culture, right, And

892
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: maybe you start you're thinking about buying something like you're

893
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: thinking about buying a new suv because that's what all

894
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: the neighbors are doing. Or oh, maybe it's because I

895
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 2: care about what it is that the other parents at carpool,

896
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: what it is that they think, And so it's worth

897
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: thinking through like why am I actually doing this? Like

898
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: should I care what it is that they think? Or

899
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 2: maybe I should care about the things that are truly

900
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: important to me. It's like, again going back to that

901
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 2: spire framework, how can I spend some of my wealth?

902
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: How can I exercise some of my financial independence in

903
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: a way that's going to lead to more health in

904
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: those other areas in life? A very simple example could

905
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: be getting your yard cut by like a lawn service

906
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: or something, right, Like you could do that maybe because

907
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: well that's what all the other guys are doing, and

908
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: this guy's really good, so maybe I'll just do that.

909
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: In my mind, that's like an unhealthy approach that to

910
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: me feels more like lifestyle creep versus maybe you're doing

911
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: it yourself and you think, man, like my saturdays are

912
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: completely taken up by yard work, and I am not

913
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: able to spend as much time as I wish I

914
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: could with my kids, and my kids are very important

915
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 2: to me. That's that relationship part of that spire framework, Right,

916
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 2: So that to me feels more like a healthy reason

917
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: to spend some of your money in a way that's

918
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: going to move the needle for you or.

919
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: I think the reason why, the why behind that choice

920
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: makes a big difference.

921
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: It's all about the intention. Yeah, it's all about the intention. So,

922
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: for instance, like it makes me think about like an

923
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: unhealthy work environment, Well, maybe it's worth considering pushing back

924
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: on something because you're realizing that, hey, this is taking

925
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: a toll on my body, Like I am not getting

926
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: enough sleep, I am working way too much. Is it

927
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: worth you stepping back a little bit, potentially giving up

928
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: future raises or a promotion, some of these different things

929
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: that would lead to more money, But that's not what

930
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: you've identified that you're after anymore. You have the money,

931
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: how is it that you're able to exercise or realize

932
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 2: your wealth? Yeah?

933
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 1: All right, so you mentioned the carpool example, it made

934
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: me think that, you know, what's going to impress them

935
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: more inviting them over and providing all the craft beer

936
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: for them, and they're gonna be like, Oh, this person's cool.

937
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: Who cares if they drive a Jelapi, you know. I

938
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: just I think the things that we think impress other

939
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: people don't impress them as much as we think. And

940
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: so yeah, maybe you're like, oh, they noticed that they're

941
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: checking me out in my sweet can you tell your ride?

942
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: Which those are good looking SUVs? But I drive a

943
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: incredibly old and incredibly cheap vehicle and I don't. And

944
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: maybe I'm completely wrong and I'm just not reading the

945
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: room right. I don't think people think less of me

946
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: for doing so. And in fact, the ways in which

947
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: you can foster friendship are less about signaling who you are.

948
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: Status symbols by the things that you buy and the

949
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 1: things that you own, and it's more about the way

950
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: in which you relate to and care for other people.

951
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: But Matt, I think part of the spectrum thing. One

952
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: of the other things we want to encourage people to

953
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: do is to figure out where they are along this

954
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: spectrum of financial independence that we've kind of outlined here today,

955
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: start taking the next steps towards the next level. Right,

956
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: so you might say, okay, cool, I am layoff by

957
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: and I want to get to peace out. That's my

958
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: next goal, right Yeah, And so just kind of like

959
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: go through these again. We'll list them all out in

960
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: the show notes for the episode.

961
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: And figure out where you are.

962
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: Because once you know where you are, then it's easier

963
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: to figure out the path to where you want to

964
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: get to, where you can make uh to where you

965
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: can go next. And so I think when when financial

966
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: independence feels like a series of smaller steps versus like,

967
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, Matt, you do CrossFit like a big

968
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: box jump, which you are actually really good at.

969
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 2: That's your thing. I do like box. I can jump

970
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: up onto this table right now. Blow your mind.

971
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could. But that's the kind of thing

972
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: where Yes, got to talk about crossfits today.

973
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: I know that, Yeah, you can check off your box.

974
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: Always an achievement, It's always something I'm tell me. Do

975
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: you feel like I bring it up to often? Thank you? Yeah? Good?

976
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: Some people do, though, That's like the first role CrossFit

977
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: is tell all your neighbors.

978
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: I try to intentionally not talk about it, I know

979
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: because of the stereotype.

980
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, but back to that small steps versus

981
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: box chump. I think people can can see that viscerally

982
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: that that the step up the stairs makes you.

983
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: Picking up some steps is going to be a lot

984
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: easier than like throwing your entire body up onto a

985
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: thirty inch Yeah.

986
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: It's more practical, more attainable, And so you aren't not

987
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: to demoralize you. You're not going to achieve financial independence overnight,

988
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: and you don't need to. You can achieve more and

989
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: more of it by doing the right things with your money,

990
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: by saving, by investing more of it, while paying off

991
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: debts steadily along the way each and every month like clockwork.

992
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: But if you can pinpoint your exact location, that can

993
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: help you get excited about the next goal. And I

994
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: think you can actually incentivize progress versus demoralizing you that

995
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to do it in one,

996
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: three or five years. Like it's like, no, I'm just

997
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: going to continue to experience greater levels of this financial

998
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: freedom and I'm going to enjoy it as I make

999
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: that progress.

1000
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about breaking it down and just doing

1001
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: the next right thing, which I'm pretty sure there's a

1002
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: Frozen two song about that. But it makes me think,

1003
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 2: like you recently talked about the couch to five k

1004
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: app and what makes that so successful is that it's

1005
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: they make it attainable. There are these doable steps, and

1006
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: you know what, there's actually like couch to ten k,

1007
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: there's couch to marathon programs as well, because that's like

1008
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: you can achieve that. And that's what we're talking about

1009
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 2: here with financial independence. We're not stopping at five k

1010
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: like we're going all the way to like ultra marathon.

1011
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: That's the level that we're going to. And this also

1012
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: makes me think about when Kate and I went hiking

1013
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: last year at Old Rag Mountain. It was a beauty,

1014
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: you know, it was snowy, says, We're walking through the woods.

1015
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: It's great, and then we get to a section of

1016
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: the trail where we get up onto this ridge and

1017
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: you look up and you can kind of see the

1018
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: rockier section, and Kate kind of freaked out a little

1019
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: bit because she was looking at this entire difficult section

1020
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: that we were going to scale, that we're going to

1021
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: like climb, slash hike over the next hour or two,

1022
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: all at once. That can be incredibly intimidating. And that's

1023
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: what it's like when you say, oh, yeah, you need

1024
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: two point eight million dollars in order to retire, which

1025
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: is whatever the recent number is that different news outlets

1026
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 2: we'll throw out there. That's demoralizing, as opposed to saying, hey, babe,

1027
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 2: I know that that looks intimidating and kind of scary,

1028
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 2: but let's we're going to take get thirty feet at

1029
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: a time. We're gonna look at the boulder or whatever

1030
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: portion of the trail out's in front of us, and

1031
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: we're gonna conquer that. And then once you do that,

1032
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: you look uphead, you look up ahead, and you realize, oh, well,

1033
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: I can do the next thirty feet. I can do

1034
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: the next fifty feet. That's what it's like when it

1035
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: comes to achieving that final or what do we call it,

1036
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: fully financial fi fully five full five. Yeah, that is

1037
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: the overall view when you're looking back at the big

1038
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: thing and you're thinking, wait, we're gonna get up to there, like,

1039
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: we're gonna achieve that. It's important to have that goal

1040
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: in mind, But does that help you in the day

1041
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: to day with the small movements. No, that's why we

1042
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: wanted to break this down into some of these manageable stages,

1043
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 2: these more attainable stages of five that we think can

1044
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 2: help you to get there more successfully.

1045
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: I think the other important thing about the stage viewpoint,

1046
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: like thinking of it this way, is that who really

1047
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: wants to delay all the best experiences that money can

1048
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: buy until they hit full retirement age?

1049
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1050
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: Right, you often can't enjoy them quite as fully at

1051
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: that point in time. And so, going back to the

1052
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: Fisherman example, that chill existence in the community of fans

1053
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: and friends, right, Owning more of your time in the

1054
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: here and now, Well, that'll make you happier than copious

1055
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: possessions in a much bigger house. And I think it'll

1056
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: be he got to enjoy it along the way, as

1057
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: opposed to shooting for it as a goal of just

1058
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: what he can do during those retirement years, during the

1059
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: golden after forty years of hard labor, where.

1060
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 2: You neglect all of those other aspects of life. Yeah,

1061
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: that's when I'll want to do all those things. But

1062
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: will my health be there, will my friends be there?

1063
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: Will I be in a state of mind to actually

1064
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: be able to enjoy it? I would We're arguing that no,

1065
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: you will not right if you don't practice along the way.

1066
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so freedom, we think is the best thing

1067
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: that money can buy because it means you get to

1068
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: call the shots more and more about how you spend

1069
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: your time. And we think that you're more rich when

1070
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: you can go on a hike or a bike ride,

1071
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: or have a long lunch with your spouse on a weekday,

1072
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: a random weekday, just at the.

1073
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: Drop of a hat. That's how to money rich, right.

1074
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, then if you can afford a yacht, but then

1075
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: you have to work eighty plus hours a week in

1076
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: order to keep it like that is not financial in

1077
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: the minutes, that is not a goal worth shooting for

1078
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: or for most people, right, that is not the kind

1079
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: of lifestyle they want to lead. And so yeah, just

1080
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: these stages of financial independence will let you enjoy allow you,

1081
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: i think, to enjoy your life more and more along

1082
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: the way along the journey, as opposed to feeling like

1083
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: you can't come up for air until you hit that

1084
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: gargantuan retirement a number that's like decade or two off

1085
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: in the.

1086
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: Future or even more. Yeah, if you are if you've

1087
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: got your first job and you're realizing oh man, not

1088
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: only do I have to pay off again all of

1089
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: this debt that I've got, but then beyond that, I've

1090
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: got to suck aside, set aside this much money that is,

1091
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 2: or it can be overwhelming and demoralizing. But uh, all right,

1092
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: let's uh shift gears. Let's get back to the beer

1093
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: Joel that you and I enjoyed again. This one was

1094
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 2: from Liz and Tyler. Thank y'all so much for sending

1095
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: this one our away. But this is a hey burner

1096
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: an American, I PA, what were your thoughts, buddy?

1097
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: This one was more in the citrus direction.

1098
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and this would remind me a lot

1099
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: of trap. Oh you just like really juicy and wet

1100
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: and citrusy.

1101
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like, honestly the best ipa coming out

1102
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: of the state of Georgia. That's like mass produced, right,

1103
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 1: that you can always get in a six or twelve pack,

1104
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: that is like the go to. It's a good one

1105
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: for so many people still, and I agree. I think

1106
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: it takes a lot like that one. And if I

1107
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: lived in New York, this might be a go to

1108
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: in my fridge.

1109
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. It feels like the kind of beer that you

1110
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 2: always have on hand. That way you can be able

1111
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: to offer something to your guests, because that's the kind

1112
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 2: of lifestyle, that's the kind of wealth I want to

1113
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: be able to live, right versus having like, was it

1114
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: a tell you ride? That's your your vehicle of choice?

1115
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: Now it's not that ex what happened to the You

1116
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: still want a Rivian right someday when they're used in

1117
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: some way cheaper, some far off day. Yeah, but uh yeah,

1118
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: that's gonna be it for this episode. You can find

1119
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: our show notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com.

1120
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: And that's also where you can find our credit card tool,

1121
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: which is the easiest way to find a credit card

1122
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: that's offering the benefits that you're looking for, and you

1123
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: can find that they're at the top bar on our website.

1124
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: But dude, that's going to be it for this one.

1125
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: Until next time, Best Friends Out, best Friends the