1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm Sara Dowdy and I'm Deblina Chalk reporting, And so Deblina, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: while you were on your maternity league, I know, I 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: did a few episodes with co hosts, and the very 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: first one I did was with Jonathan Strickland of tech Stuff, 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: and when we were trying to figure out a topic, 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: he threw out the idea of number stations. And I 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: don't know, have you have you ever heard of number 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: stations before, not until this, not until this, so I 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: hadn't either, I think tech Stuff he and Chris actually 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: did an episode on them. But they are shortwave radio 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: stations that broadcast a sequence of numbers were sometimes a 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: sequence of letters or words, interspersed with little clips of music. 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: And they appeared and people aren't quite sure when they appeared, 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: but probably sometime not long after World War Two. They 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: were used for spy communications. Most likely some are still 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: active today. They're really creepy sounding to Lena, and I 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: listened to a few before this. They sound like creepy 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: kids music almost, And maybe I just think this because 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of kids music lately, but 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: they sort of the automatic the music that comes on 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: when you have one of those little kids vibrating chairs 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, and then maybe the key would change and 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: it would get creepy. Yeah, they are kind of like that. 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't find a clip like this to send you. 27 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: But some of them even have children reading the numbers, 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: which adds to the creepiness. But anyway, Jonathan and I 29 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit. Decided not to do 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: the episode on that specifically, but I did go out 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: searching for some of these number stations so to listen 32 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: to them, and after listening to some of those broadcasts, 33 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: it reminded me of another wartime radio related topic and 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: a listener suggestion, Tokyo Rose, who was, of course, the 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: English language voice of Japanese propaganda during World War Two. 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: There were a number of these radio personalities during the war, 37 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: basically English speaking broadcasters who were based in Access Territory, 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: and they aimed at demoralizing Allied troops with a number 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: of things, including things to make them homesick, grim or 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: fabricated battle reports and predictions, and also plenty of pop music. 41 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: That was the thing that kept the soldiers listening in 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: the first place. Yeah, they're kind of a strange combination 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: of that really, because they needed something for the soldiers 44 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: to tune in, and part of that was the homesick 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: part too. A lot of times the announcers would be 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: familiar sounding female voices that reminded them of home. But 47 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: in most cases, the names of these people, I mean, 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: there's acts of Sally, there's Lord ha Ha, their sinister Sam. 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: In most cases the name was just really an allied nickname. 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: It was not a real person. It was for a 51 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: series of these anonymous broadcasters, and in Tokyo Rosa's case, 52 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: there were probably actually about twenty or more than twenty 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: women broadcasting Japanese propaganda in the Pacific, some under real 54 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: DJ names like Orphan Anne. Troops imagined that these generic 55 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: Tokyo Roses were seductresses, taunting them and making them miss 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: home at the same time. Sometimes there would be crazy 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: rumors about who the real Tokyo Rose was. Maybe she 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: was General Tojo's mistress, maybe she was a hula dancer. 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: She could have even been Amelia air Hawks. I know, 60 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: those were some of the rumors going around. Gotta be Amelia, right, 61 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: But most of these generic broadcaster names did have real 62 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: people behind them, or at least one individual who would 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: finally be named, including Access Sally and Lord ha ha h. 64 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: For Lord Haha, it's William Joyce, a guy who was 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: eventually executed for treason. For Access Sally, it's usually a 66 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: woman named Mildred Giller's who did end up doing some 67 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: prison time for treason, and Tokyo Rose is the same way. 68 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: And because day's topic, of course, focuses on her, we're 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: gonna start with a clip from a Tokyo Rose herself 70 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: introducing her own radio program before we kick off our podcast, 71 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: reading your number one enemy, your favorite playmates, ready again 72 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: on your morale. So the Tokyo Rose you just heard 73 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: with the DJ name Orphan Anne is actually our Lady 74 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: of the day, the person we're going to talk about. 75 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: You might already be able to tell. But she didn't 76 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: really fit the mold of the other Tokyo Roses that 77 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: we described earlier. For one thing, she had a comic 78 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: voice rather than a seductive one, and she delivered these 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: really funny, over the top kind of blows to morale 80 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: rather than the real crushing news or the jobs that 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: people had come to expect from the other Tokyo roses. 82 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: She did just an example of saying that she was 83 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: going to deliver a vicious assault on your morale before 84 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: going on to say quote, I know what you need 85 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: is some jive. It helps you relax, and then playing 86 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to work. It doesn't really 87 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: come across as a very vicious assault on your morale. 88 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. But out of all of the 89 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: twenty plus Tokyo roses who are known to have broadcast 90 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: two Allied troops in the Pacific, it was this Rose 91 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: Orphan and also known as Iva cuco To Guriquino, who 92 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: was tried and convicted of treason for her wartime work. Obviously, 93 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: she was a scapegoat. She was the face, if not 94 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: actually the voice of a wartime enemy, a wartime enemy 95 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: who became a much hated one, especially after the war 96 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: was over, and she even later told CBS News herself 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: quote I suppose they found someone and got the job done. 98 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: They were all satisfied. It was any meany miney, and 99 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: I was mo. How she got to be mo, though, 100 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: is truly surprising and involved wartime desperation, unscrupulous journalism, cold 101 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: war posturing and a truly truly ill timed vacation. So 102 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna go into that a little bit, but first 103 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: we want to start with giving you a little background 104 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: on Iva. She was in the SAY, which was basically 105 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: a second generation Japanese immigrant, and she had been born 106 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: on the fourth of July in nineteen sixteen in Los Angeles, 107 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: and since her parents and her older brother had been 108 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: born in Japan, they couldn't become American citizens. However they 109 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: were there seemed to be at least a pretty quintessentially 110 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: all American household. They lived, for example, in a mostly 111 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: white neighborhood rather than a Japanese community. They attended Methodist 112 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: church and the kids went to public school. Iva and 113 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: her brother both grew up speaking English, and they helped 114 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: their father with his store and import business. And I 115 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: have a hiked, played tennis, was really popular with her classmates, 116 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: and loved swing dancing. So really seems like an American girl, 117 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: And according to Women in World History Encyclopedia, I've not 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: even said later that she never really felt discriminated against 119 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: growing up, something that was quite common unfortunately for many 120 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: other Japanese Americans. Uh before and after the war, of course, 121 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: But in nineteen one, i've A graduated from U c 122 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: l A and she started taking some graduate classes. She 123 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: was thinking of of going on to med school, but 124 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen forty one, so shortly after 125 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: her graduation, her sickly Japanese aunt invited her to visit 126 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: the home country and care for her for for a time. 127 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: Iva didn't have a passport, but that actually wasn't a 128 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: problem at the time she got a certificate of identification 129 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: from the State Department. She packed her bags with chocolate 130 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: and coffee and canned meats because she hated Japanese food. 131 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: She didn't even like to eat rice, so she was 132 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: preparing for what was clearly going to be a relatively 133 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: short summer trip when she left in July too. Of course, 134 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: the US and Japan were not yet at war, a 135 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: crucial point in this scenario, and they weren't at war 136 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: when she applied for her passport at home in September, either, 137 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: But as the State Department processed her application, the Japanese 138 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: attacked Pearl Harbor, and suddenly American born Ivo was stuck 139 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: in enemy territory. So she soon found her position got 140 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: even worse, she could only be evacuated as a citizen 141 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: through India, something that cost more than four hundred dollars 142 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: and was well beyond her means. After that, she tried 143 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: to get the Japanese authorities to detain her as an 144 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: American national, which they refused to do since she was 145 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: of Japanese descent. But she also refused to renounce her 146 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: American citizenship and declare herself Japanese, a route that about 147 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: ten thousand other people like her took in Japan, and 148 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: this decision made her immensely suspicious to Japanese authorities, who 149 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: suspected that she was an America Can spy, and they 150 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: would search her aunt's home repeatedly until i'va finally moved out. 151 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: So this is her situation in Japan wartime Japan. She's 152 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: unable to return to the US. She's unable to be 153 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: an official foreign national and be kept in custody as such, 154 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: she's unwilling to become a Japanese citizen. Plus she gets 155 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: no ration card because she's an enemy alien, so not 156 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: a great situation to be and she obviously needs to 157 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: find work, and she doesn't even have a great command 158 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: of Japanese. She she's taking language classes, but she's not 159 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: particularly fluent. Finally, she finds work as a typist at 160 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: the Domain News Agency. Um, but just a bad time. 161 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: She's not making very much money at all. The food 162 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: rationing card problem is pretty major because she's suffering from 163 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: nutritional deficiencies, vitamin deficiencies. She's at one point hospitalized with 164 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: scurvy and berry berry. And in ninete she gets a 165 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: second job, which must have seemed like a real blessing 166 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: at the time that Radio Tokyo also a typing job, 167 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: and Radio Tokyo is an interesting place for her to 168 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: wind up because there were several Allied prisoner of war 169 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: broadcaster space there. And so she did what she could 170 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: for her fellow Americans, these these POWs and other Allied POWs, 171 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, helping them with food when when she could 172 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: get it, helping get them some clothes, just doing her 173 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: best for her for her fellow allies. This action ultimately 174 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: earned her the trust of a guy named Charles H. Cousins, 175 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: who was an Australian broadcaster who had been captured in 176 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: Singapore and forced a broadcast propaganda in Japan. And just 177 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: a side note here, according to The Washington Post, he 178 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: made a deal with his captors where he would read um, 179 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: he'd read the script of propaganda messages, but he also 180 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: convinced them to allow him to read pod w names 181 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: because he thought it would serve their purposes. Still, these 182 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: are the guys we've captured, but it would also help 183 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the Allies, help their families know who was who wasn't 184 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: dead They were, they were just in custody. And Cousins, 185 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 1: along with American pow Major Wallance Ince and Filipino pow 186 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Norman Reis, had gotten permission to start a new 187 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: propaganda show, which was called Zero Hour, though their plan 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: here was actually to subvert the Japanese message, basically to 189 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: make the program a joke, but one that the Japanese 190 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: censors weren't quite in on, and they chose Iva with 191 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: this purpose in mind. Cousins later said, quote, with the 192 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: idea that I had in mind of making a complete 193 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: burlesque of the program, her voice was just what I wanted. Rough, 194 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: I hope I can say this without offense. A voice 195 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: that I have described as a jin fog voice. It 196 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: was rough, almost masculine, anything but a femininely seductive voice 197 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: it was a comedy voice that I needed for this 198 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: particular job. So let's take another listen to her. Thank you, 199 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. That's all. Thanks until then, Number one, 200 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: my g I always to be good right now. So 201 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: even if you exclude the true subversive intent of Zero Hour, 202 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: it's important to note Iva's role was that of the DJ. 203 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: She introduced pop songs, joking that she was the g 204 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: I s number one enemy. It's all very lighthearted sort 205 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: of stuff, and I really like her voice, by the way, 206 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: It's interesting sounding. But the program was considered successful enough 207 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: by the Japanese too. I mean they weren't picking up 208 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: that this whole thing seemed a little bit subversive. Um, 209 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: it was successful enough that they wouldn't let her leave 210 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: the job, even though she attempted to do that several times. 211 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: By April, she converted to Roman Catholicism and married one 212 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: of her Radio Tokyo co workers, a guy named Philippe 213 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: de Quino, who was a half Japanese half Portuguese worker 214 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: at the same place and and had Portuguese citizenship too, 215 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: And both of them eventually did leave their jobs at 216 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: Radio Tokyo when it became when they're clear pro Allied 217 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: sympathies just became a little bit too controversial for them 218 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: to keep on working in propaganda officially. And just a 219 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: few months after their marriage, the war was over. And 220 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: really Ivan her husband probably could have just slipped back 221 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: quietly into their pre war lives at this point, except 222 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: that Iva was contacted by two journalists, a guy named 223 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: Harry Brundage and a guy named Clark Lee, and she 224 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: was overly welcoming to them, in part because she was happy. 225 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: She greeted the the Americans as as her friends and 226 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: her fellow countryman. She saw these guys as American. She 227 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: could talk to you. Finally, it was a good time. 228 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: She wanted to share her story. She wanted to talk 229 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: about her wartime work. She freely admitted that she was 230 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: a Tokyo Rose. But the reporters didn't publish her story 231 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: as this patriotic tale of subversion, like we made zero 232 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: Hour and it was really to thwart the Japanese message. 233 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: They published it as a confession, the confession of Tokyo Rose. 234 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: They didn't pay her the two thousand dollars that they 235 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: promised for the scoop. That was another motive for her 236 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: talking to them clearly after all this wartime deprivation, and 237 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: she had no idea that one thing, the story would 238 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: be manipulated that way, but also that it might get 239 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: her in some serious trouble. And it wasn't long before 240 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: the FBI was in Tokyo to investigate her, and she 241 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: wound up imprisoned for a year. During that investigation, FBI 242 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: listened to recordings of her program. They also interviewed hundreds 243 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: of gi as who had heard her show, and examined 244 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: Japanese documents, and ultimately they decided there was no case here. 245 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: She had just been a DJ reading bits written by 246 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: major cousins. After her release from prison, though she got 247 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: pregnant When she and her husband began petitioning to return 248 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: to the States because they really wanted their child to 249 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: be born at home. Brendage, who was angry over losing 250 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: his original scoop here, started to write about her again, 251 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: as did Walter Winchell, a media personality, and the two 252 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: of them they stirred up some outrage here. Veterans groups 253 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: like the American Legion were quick to id Iva as 254 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: the Tokyo Rose, not just a Tokyo Rose. She was 255 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: basically to them a compilation of every anti American voice 256 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: they had heard during the war, and they petitioned the 257 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Justice Department for her prosecution. So Iva and Philippe's child 258 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: ended up being still born, but by that point she 259 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: was going to be returning to the United States regardless 260 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: even though the earlier investigation had shown that there was 261 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: nothing to charge her with. The prosecution would look good 262 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: to the administration during an election year, especially because President 263 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: Truman was criticized at this point for being too soft 264 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: on communism, too soft on anything that was un American. 265 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: Jedre Hoover was in favor of prosecuting her, so it 266 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: seemed like a good move politically to to go after 267 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: this woman. But while the FBI had already interviewed hundreds 268 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: of servicemen and most of them had said, if anything, 269 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: her program was morale boosting. They liked it. It It was funny, 270 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: it was nice to hear a familiar voice. The Justice 271 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: Department put out a press release asking for others to 272 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: come forward, anybody who could identify her voice as as 273 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: that of when they had heard in the Pacific. They 274 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: also sent Brundage. And this is really surprising to me, 275 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: since it seems like he would have a lot of 276 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: interests involved in the story by this point, which he did. Uh. 277 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: They sent him to Japan in to find some other witnesses, 278 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: people who had seen her broadcasting. One of his witnesses 279 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: he finds ends up committing perjury. He's responsible for it. 280 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: So clearly he was not a good chance, a good 281 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: choice to send to Japan after all. But finally, in 282 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: September nine, she was indicted on several counts of treason 283 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: and escorted by the military back to the United States. 284 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: So what is the seven years after she left on 285 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: this ill fated trip, she finally is coming home, but 286 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: to be met with FBI agents when she arrives. Right 287 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: in The trial which started in July ninety nine, went 288 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: on at the same time as the alder His case, 289 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: which I think you guys discussed while I was gone. 290 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: Ben and I discussed it during the McCarthy ism episode, 291 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: and um, I was Debilina and I were just chatting 292 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: before this. You always see the alger His trial mentioned 293 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: in the lead up to McCarthyism. I have never seen 294 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: this one mentioned. I mean, it's not about spies and communism, 295 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: but it's clearly in the same vein So for Iva's case, 296 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: nineteen witnesses from Japan were basically put up in style 297 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: and they testified to seeing her broadcast. Ironically, many of 298 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: these who testified against her were in to say who 299 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: had renounced their citizenship during the war, unlike her right 300 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: and Iva was defended by Wayne Collins, supported by colleagues 301 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: like Cousins, and had evidence that she had indeed helped 302 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: American POWs during the war. Still, she was convicted on 303 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: one count for supposedly saying, quote, orphans of the Pacific, 304 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: you're really orphans? Now, how will you get home now 305 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: that your ships are sunk? Yet this had aired right 306 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: after an Allied victory, So there's the possibility that maybe 307 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: this was a joke at the false nature of propaganda programs, 308 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: if she said it at all, if she really said it. 309 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: But ultimately she was convicted as if she had said it, 310 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: And according to the FBI, she was only the seventh 311 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: person convicted of treason in US history. And this really 312 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: gets crazier when you hear what the jury form and 313 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: to say. He later admitted that they had wanted to 314 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: find her not guilty. They had deliberated for a very 315 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: very long time. They wanted to find her not guilty, 316 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: but they felt that it countered the judge's instructions and 317 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: his comments about how this trial had been really expensive 318 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: and they needed to figure something out. It had cost 319 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: half a million dollars for the government. So the jury 320 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: had come to the conclusion, all right, we kind of 321 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: want to find her not guilty, but we don't want 322 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: to disobey the judge. That's always a bad thing if 323 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: the jury is thinking that, and decided that they would 324 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: find her guilty on the most minor of the trees 325 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: and charges uh and hoped that that would mean she 326 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: would get off her time served already and if she 327 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: had already been in jail for about two years at 328 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: this point. Instead, though, the judge sentenced her to ten 329 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: years prison time and at ten tho dollar fine, which 330 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: horrified the jury. She ultimately s seven years of that 331 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: time in West Virginia before she was finally released in 332 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six. When she was released, though the government 333 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: threatened her with deportation, she successfully argued that this was 334 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: an impossibility, a legal impossibility, because she could not be 335 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 1: deported if she was a US citizen. How could she 336 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: be convicted of treason? If she was not a US 337 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: citizen and it didn't work out, so they agreed, Okay, 338 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: you can stay in the US. But instead they just 339 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: treated her as a stateless person, basically forbidding her to 340 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: travel outside of the US, something that made her married 341 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: life impossible since they had also banned her husband from 342 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: entering the country. So although she and her husband didn't 343 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: ever divorce, they also weren't ever able to see each 344 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: other again, which is maybe the saddest part of this 345 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: already really sad story. UM. Finally, she moved to Chicago, 346 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: which is where her father had settled and built up 347 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: his import business US. He was pretty well off by 348 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: this point. She was ultimately pardoned by Gerald Ford in 349 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. UM. One of the reasons why it 350 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: took so long for that pardon is she didn't really 351 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: have the support of the Japanese American community for quite 352 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: some time. UM. People really saw her as a as 353 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: a disgrace, not looking at the intricacies of her story 354 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: and how she had really been kind of a model 355 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: American in a in a enemy country during wartime UM. 356 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: But by the second generation. But by the time it 357 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: got to the folks who were looking for reparations for 358 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: a Japanese in tournament. Her case took hold of people 359 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: again and and folks wanted some sort of justice for her. 360 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: According to her Washington Post o bit and this was 361 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: a part that kind of brought tears to my eyes. 362 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: She was regretful that her pardon came shortly after her 363 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: father's death, and she said that he had always told her, quote, 364 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: you were like a tiger. You never changed your stripes. 365 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: You stayed American through and so this is something that's 366 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: really sad to hear, since he and the rest of 367 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: her family had been forcibly moved to an Arizona and 368 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: tournament camp during the war, so they had also suffered. Yeah, 369 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: that they were also patriotic, and and that was something 370 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: she didn't know too during her time in Japan. You know, 371 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: when she when she would not accept Japanese citizenship, she 372 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: didn't realize that her family had been deported by that point. Um. 373 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: So she died in two thousand and six at the 374 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: age of ninety after many years of running the business successfully. 375 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: Her a bit very awesome mentioned things like she liked 376 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: attending the Chicago Lyric Opera, she liked quilting, she kept 377 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: a pretty low profile life, as as one would expect 378 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: from so many bad experiences with these With these interviews, 379 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: her biographer Messiah Dust said that her case was quote 380 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: one of the most egregious miscarriages of justice in American 381 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: legal history. And um one thing, I mean there there's 382 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: so many sad points, especially at the at the end here, 383 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: But one thing that really got to me. I realized 384 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 1: that the clips, the clips that we've actually played are 385 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: re enactments, and they're from very shortly after the war, 386 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: and you can see video of her of her doing them. 387 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: You know, she's in the studio, she's got the microphone, 388 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: there's a guy putting an LP on the turntable when 389 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: she cues in the song. Because of course, there aren't 390 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: really records of the broadcast. I think there is one 391 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: record of a zero hour broadcast, but most of those 392 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: FBI files had been destroyed when they decided first go 393 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: around that she there was no case against her, she 394 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: couldn't be prosecuted. So these were re enactments. She had 395 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: done these thinking this was a totally okay thing to do. Otherwise, 396 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: why would you re enact your your time as Tokyo 397 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: Rose or or or than Anne. She thought it was 398 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: gonna be okay and it wasn't. No not to be okay. 399 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: Listener mail time, So Tablina, I mean, I think this 400 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: one is is really probably for you, but it's a 401 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: very cute email. It's from listener Zara from Quebec, and 402 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: she wrote to fay Hi, I started listening to both 403 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: of your podcast she wrote to mom Stuff too. By 404 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: the way, started listening to both of your podcasts back 405 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: in on the recommendation from my husband, who was a 406 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: truck driver at the time. I gave birth to a 407 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: baby boy last year in September, and during the pregnancy 408 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: I finished listening to all the podcasts from Mom Stuff. 409 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: I finished History Stuff a while before. Well, wouldn't you 410 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: guess when he's restless in the car, I can put 411 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: on either of your podcast and he calms down long 412 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: enough to reach home. She listens to a few other 413 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: house Stuff Works podcasts, to which while she enjoys them, 414 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: it sounds like they don't have quite the same effect 415 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: on the baby, So she wrote, during the last year, 416 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: I listened to you in the car, at home and 417 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: at work. Thanks for all the interesting podcasts and I 418 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: hope we'll hear you for a long while yet, so 419 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: a very fun note. She has had some baby tips 420 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: for Dablina. You know, Sharon chairing the info. I appreciate that. 421 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: I don't think I can use the podcast thing. No, 422 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: just mom talking. It's just mom talking, and it doesn't 423 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: work on her. My talking to her in the car 424 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: doesn't calm her restlessness while we're driving. So I don't know. 425 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: Maybe christ and Conger would should have a different voice, 426 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: because if if you got tired of talking and your 427 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: voice did help, you could just pop in a podcast 428 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: and she would just think you were talking to her. 429 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: If only that worked. Oh wow, well, I'm glad it 430 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: does work for somebody. This is another thing you can add, 431 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: calming babies, scaring bears, all sorts of interesting things that 432 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: are voices do for the world. If you know of 433 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: any other uses, or maybe you just have some parenting 434 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: tips for me that you'd like to pass along a long, 435 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: I welcome them. You can write to us. We're at 436 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: History Podcast at Discovery dot com, or you can look 437 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: a stuff on Twitter. We're also on Facebook, and we 438 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: also have something that's somewhat tied to this really fascinating 439 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: and tragic subject. That we talked about today. It's did 440 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: the United States put its own citizens in concentration cancer 441 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: during World War Two? I think you know from the 442 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: podcast the answer is yes, But of course it goes 443 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: into a lot more detail than that, so you can 444 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: search for that one on our homepage at www dot 445 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 446 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot 447 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: com