1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: For a show about a bunch of religious people. There's

2
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: been very little Bible talk thus far. I have to

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: admit I've never actually read the Bible, so there's a

4
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 1: huge chunk of modern culture I'm missing. Anytime someone says

5
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,320
Speaker 1: a fly in the ointment, a drop in the bucket,

6
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,239
Speaker 1: a man after my own heart, setting your teeth on edge,

7
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: bite the dust, apple of my eye, or at my

8
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 1: wits end, they are knowingly or not quoting the Bible,

9
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 1: and it makes language that much richer when you're hip

10
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: to biblical references like this. One of these phrases is

11
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 1: thirty pieces of silver. It comes from the story of

12
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:49,000
Speaker 1: Judas Is Scariot. So Jesus was, contrary to popular assumption,

13
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: intensely political, so much so that by passover of his

14
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,319
Speaker 1: thirty third year, he was on borrowed time, and one

15
00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,800
Speaker 1: of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, was seeking working with the

16
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 1: high priests who had it out for Jesus. So shortly

17
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,040
Speaker 1: after the last supper, Judas went off and found a mob,

18
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 1: brought them back to a garden where Jesus was praying,

19
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 1: and told them the man I kiss is Jesus. He's

20
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 1: the one you should seize Jesus was somehow hip to

21
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,280
Speaker 1: this and let it happen because it was all part

22
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 1: of a prophecy. And for his betrayal, Judas was paid

23
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:32,320
Speaker 1: thirty pieces of silver. Betrayal, it turns out, is an

24
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 1: inevitable byproduct of human passion.

25
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,199
Speaker 2: The ultimate cutting point is what happens when you discover an.

26
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,880
Speaker 1: Informer Catholic Left historian Charles Meconis.

27
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,959
Speaker 2: Because there will be informers sooner or later, you know,

28
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the government gets to have a vote in

29
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 2: this kind of stuff.

30
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: When humans get together, all believing passionately in something, there

31
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,640
Speaker 1: will always be conflict.

32
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 2: And that's where the rubber hits the road.

33
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 1: In a movement, there will always be betrayal. I'm Brendan

34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 1: Patrick Hughes, and this is Divine intervention, Chapter nine, the

35
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: last two words. In Camden, New Jersey, twenty eight people

36
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 1: had staged the last stand with a government that had

37
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,919
Speaker 1: learned how to crush dissent. Their raid was supposed to

38
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: prove that the American people would always have a voice. Instead,

39
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 1: the morning after the raid, after hours of interrogation in

40
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 1: rooms that had been pre labeled with their names, the

41
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,239
Speaker 1: Camden twenty eight went off to jail.

42
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 3: The women all went to a women's jail, and the

43
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 3: men were all went to Atlanta County Jail.

44
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 2: I think it was the very day after they ambushed

45
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 2: the Camden twenty eight, Hoover puts out this big public announcement,

46
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 2: we have broken the back of the Catholic left.

47
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,959
Speaker 1: The morning after the arrest, j Edgar Hoover and US

48
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,680
Speaker 1: Attorney General John Mitchell held a triumphant press conference in

49
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 1: which they distributed pre assembled biographical information on each raider.

50
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 1: Hoover said, I guess I want these people to go

51
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,360
Speaker 1: to jail for forty six years. Bob Knane he was

52
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 1: going to take all his vengeance out on the Camden people.

53
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 4: The FBI was convinced that in arresting the Camden twenty.

54
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 1: Eight Bob Weed X Williamson, they.

55
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,800
Speaker 4: Had caught at least some of the media burglars.

56
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 1: He had them in his clutches and he would see

57
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 1: to it they were locked up for as many years

58
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: as possible.

59
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 5: So what was the Camden twenty eight? But all twenty

60
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,120
Speaker 5: eight of us were not even in Camden.

61
00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 1: Leanne Mosha was a driver on the night of the raid.

62
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 5: Some people were arrested as co conspirators who were not

63
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 5: even there that night, but they were charged with having

64
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 5: been part of the planning or charged with part of

65
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 5: the previous activities that led to the arrest.

66
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 6: The newspaper is a constant horror story.

67
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 1: Sarahtosi wrote to Patrick and Mary Anne.

68
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 6: But things are stirring.

69
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: The story was front page news in the New York

70
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 1: Times and had features in Newsweek and Time Magazine. As

71
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 1: the press rolled into Camden, Bob Hardy, the informer who

72
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 1: betrayed them, all spent hours testifying before a grand jury.

73
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 5: The informer was a complicated, complicated man. He went immediately

74
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 5: to the FBI to tell us what we were doing,

75
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 5: and they said, great, hang in there. He was the

76
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 5: start witness for the prosecution.

77
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,479
Speaker 1: The following day, an indictment was handed down, charging twenty

78
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 1: eight people with seven counts describing forty four over illegal acts.

79
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 1: They faced over six hundred thousand dollars in bail and

80
00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: a maximum penalty of forty seven years in prison.

81
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,280
Speaker 7: Forty seven years and one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

82
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 1: In fines, which in nineteen seventy one meant they would

83
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 1: be released in the unfathomably science fiction year of twenty eighteen,

84
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 1: Hoover was now riding high on his law enforcement triumph

85
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 1: and he had, shall we say, taken notice of those

86
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,799
Speaker 1: raising money on behalf of the Camden defendants.

87
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 8: Patrick and I. We were getting a lot of bail money,

88
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 8: Jim Carroll and Ann Walsh, everyone was getting as much

89
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,320
Speaker 8: bail money together as we can.

90
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 1: Patrick and Mary Anne were spending all their time together

91
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 1: and gathering bail for Camden was the perfect cover to

92
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 1: travel together.

93
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 8: And Patrick and I took one quick trip down to

94
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,040
Speaker 8: Camden to bring the money down. The whole way we

95
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 8: were being followed by the FBI, and we knew it.

96
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 8: I mean you could see them. We'd get out of

97
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 8: the car, they'd get out of the car. It was

98
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 8: so obvious. So after Camden there was a Jane Doe

99
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,919
Speaker 8: warrant for my rest. The description, as I understand it

100
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 8: was Paul Kooming's best friend who has long dark hare

101
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,359
Speaker 8: and that would only be one person, which would be me.

102
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,479
Speaker 8: Everybody I lived with had been arrested. They were all

103
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 8: on the front page of the Boston Globe.

104
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: Because of her kids, Marianne had to be careful, but

105
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 1: she was also harboring a scandalous secret.

106
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 9: And Miriam was bringing the money to Camden, right Ann Walsh.

107
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 9: Simultaneously she was falling in love with Patrick. I mean

108
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,239
Speaker 9: they were about to actually Actually, what I'm talking about

109
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 9: is like so many levels of motivation and stuff like

110
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 9: that going on, and basically it's a big love story.

111
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: If they might stay in a motel for the night

112
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: somewhere between Camden and Boston, they would emerge the next

113
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 1: morning and wave at their FBI tails, who would grumpily

114
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,600
Speaker 1: hoist their coffee cups and climb into a car. For

115
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 1: a while, these two FBI agents were the only people

116
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 1: in the world who knew of about Patrick and Marianne.

117
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 8: It is horrifying if you think about being investigated by

118
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 8: the FII. You know, most reasonable people would say it's

119
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 8: pretty frightening experience.

120
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: Hoover had hired a thousand agents just to intimidate the

121
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 1: Catholic left.

122
00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 8: Patrick was very nervous that they were going to go

123
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 8: to his parents, who were you know, they were well

124
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 8: into their seventies at that time.

125
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: And don't forget, these agents had something on Marianne.

126
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 8: The FBI had gone to my father, and they had

127
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 8: gone to my brother, and they had gone with photos.

128
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 1: Not only was she helping a bunch of criminals in

129
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: South Jersey, she was also in and out of motel

130
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 1: rooms with the Roman Catholic priests.

131
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 8: I think they threatened my brother with a subpoena, for instance,

132
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 8: like that if he didn't tell them everything he knew

133
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 8: about what I was doing, they would subpoena him. It

134
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 8: shook his world. It shook his world. That probably wasn't

135
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 8: the best way in the world for him to have

136
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 8: learned that news.

137
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: Her father then cut her out of his life.

138
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 8: My father disowned me.

139
00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: And he and her brother left her on her own

140
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 1: with her scandalous romantic relationship, her criminal friends, and her children.

141
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 1: There's a joke about Irish Alzheimer's that you forget everything

142
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 1: but the grudges. But Marianne, fifty years hence, was the

143
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: opposite of that and could now see this situation from

144
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 1: their side.

145
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,600
Speaker 8: Now I really appreciate how awful that had to be

146
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 8: for them and for us. It was almost like a

147
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 8: badge of honor, because at that point there was such

148
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 8: a commitment to ending the war, and this was if

149
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,079
Speaker 8: these were the consequences, These were the consequences, and it

150
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 8: was what cleaved the generations. It was those times.

151
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: So Patrick and Marianne wore their badge of honor and

152
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,920
Speaker 1: along with Jim Carroll and Walsh and many others, they

153
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,439
Speaker 1: pressed on bailing out the Camden twenty eight.

154
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 3: We were all bailed out because people all across the

155
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 3: country put up their houses.

156
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,439
Speaker 1: They got people to take out second mortgages on their homes.

157
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 3: And risk their houses just to get us all out

158
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 3: of jail.

159
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: And miraculously they managed to scrounge up the staggering sum

160
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: of money needed to get everybody out of jail in Camden.

161
00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,679
Speaker 1: Everyone was eventually freed and they began their trial prep

162
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 1: in earnest.

163
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 7: We were caught red handed cookie, so nobody even thought

164
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 7: about trying to comp with the defense that would somehow say,

165
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,080
Speaker 7: oh you just misidentification or something. No defense right, So

166
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 7: there was we were there. I put my odds to

167
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 7: success at zero. Because there had never been an acquittal

168
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,439
Speaker 7: before any of the Draft Board rate cases.

169
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 4: People had been convicted and sent to prison.

170
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: They were doomed from the start, but nevertheless they persisted.

171
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 1: Soon the Camden twenty eight case was a signed a judge,

172
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,760
Speaker 1: Judge Clarkson Fisher. He was a Catholic World War two

173
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: that appointed by Nixon to the federal bench. Some of

174
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 1: the defendants thought his assignment was intentionally provocative. A trial

175
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,760
Speaker 1: date was set from Monday, February fifth, nineteen seventy three.

176
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,320
Speaker 10: Mary Anne Patrick, the storm bruise on the horizon visible now,

177
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 10: I mean the trial, yes, but so much more than

178
00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 10: just that word or reality, but every single level of

179
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 10: my existence and beyond that.

180
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: Lawyers had flocked to Camden in the hopes of representing

181
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: the twenty eight defendants. They impressed on the twenty eight

182
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 1: the deep shit they were in, the complex legal doctrines,

183
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 1: and the byzantine government maneuvering that would need their expertise.

184
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 1: But the defendants knew this was their only chance to

185
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 1: talk about Vietnam as a context for their motivation, and

186
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: because so many judges in previous trial had prevented such testimony,

187
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,360
Speaker 1: they realized their only shot at being able to speak

188
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 1: freely was to represent themselves and go pro say so,

189
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 1: they dismissed the hotshot lawyers.

190
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,319
Speaker 5: People made a decision to defend themselves without an attorney,

191
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,160
Speaker 5: so it was a bit of a mayhem scenario.

192
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 1: At the end of the argument, twenty three went pro say,

193
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 1: while five opted for co consul, they would represent themselves.

194
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 1: They would go out with a bang, and they would

195
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,480
Speaker 1: attempt to put the Vietnam War itself on the stand.

196
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,559
Speaker 1: But two hours west on I seventy six in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

197
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: Hoover's pet grand jury project and massive indictment of the

198
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 1: movement had finally evolved into a trial accusing seven Catholic

199
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 1: Left movement people, including Phil Brigan, of conspiracy. Some of

200
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,679
Speaker 1: the defendants in the government's conspiracy case were furious at

201
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,760
Speaker 1: the Camden people. One Harrisburg defendant described the Camden action

202
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: as an activist expression of American individualism and obsession with heroism.

203
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,719
Speaker 1: But the Harrisburg defendants had not chosen to use their

204
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,959
Speaker 1: trial as a continuation of an action, and had instead

205
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 1: gone into damage control and hired famous lawyers. The trial

206
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: of the Harrisburg seven lasted six weeks. The government's star

207
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,440
Speaker 1: witness was Boyd Douglas, Phil Berigan's fellow inmate and confidante.

208
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 2: So finally the Gotholic Left figures out that Boyd Douglas

209
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,719
Speaker 2: was the trader in the Harrisburg stuff. The letters which

210
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,199
Speaker 2: Boyd Douglas had been carrying out, photocopying, and handing straight

211
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 2: to the FBI. Those were just awful to listen to

212
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,439
Speaker 2: in the court room because almost all of us that

213
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 2: was the first time we ever became aware of them

214
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 2: or heard them.

215
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: And it was these letters that had revealed not only

216
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 1: Dan Berrigan's whereabouts on Block Island which led to his arrest,

217
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 1: but also the Kissinger kidnapping plot, which was what allowed

218
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 1: Hoover to put millions of dollars behind crushing the cap

219
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,800
Speaker 1: Flick left. When the prosecution rested, the Harrisburg Seven's lawyer

220
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 1: stood up and, to the astonishment of everyone in the courtroom,

221
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 1: gave a sixteen word defense, your honor. He said, these

222
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: defendants shall always seek peace, and they proclaim their innocence

223
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: of these charges. The defense rests. The jury deliberated for

224
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 1: seven days. At the verdict, the defendants began emptying their pockets.

225
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 2: Everybody, including the defendants themselves, are expecting that they're gone.

226
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 2: And the vote comes intent to too for acquittal, and

227
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 2: we couldn't believe it.

228
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 1: The Harrisburg Seven were free, but it was a pyrrhic victory.

229
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 1: The Catholic Left movement was all but destroyed, decimated, by

230
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,680
Speaker 1: legal fees and infighting, with the war winding down and

231
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 1: only the Camden trial left, and one month after the

232
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: Harrisburg verdict, Jay Hoover, sworn enemy of the American Left,

233
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 1: died of a heart attack on May twi nineteen seventy two.

234
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 11: I definitely believe that that defeat ted Glick in that

235
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 11: trial had something to do with him dying so quickly

236
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 11: after that verdict. I'm sure he was really apoplectic about

237
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 11: the fact that everybody got off from that.

238
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 1: On February fifth, nineteen seventy three, the trial of the

239
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 1: Candon twenty eight finally began.

240
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 3: Yes s Zach same building. That courtroom is on the

241
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 3: third floor, their draft boards on the fifth floor.

242
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 1: On that day, Colonel William Noldy, the last combat soldier

243
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 1: to be killed in Vietnam, was buried at Arlington National

244
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: Cemetery in Washington.

245
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 12: D c.

246
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: The twenty eight defendants assembled in a packed ceremonial courtroom

247
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: and discovered the prosecutor had put a deal on the.

248
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 7: Table the day at the trial when we were supposed

249
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 7: to start the case. They presented us with another offer.

250
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: Number one. He had severed eight defendants, including Keith Forsyth,

251
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 1: Leanne Mosha and Sarah Tosi, and.

252
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 5: It seemed that there was no rationale. There were people

253
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 5: who were kept in the whole group who were way

254
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 5: less involved than we were. There were people who were

255
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 5: more involved who were severed unclear how they made the decision.

256
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 6: Dear Mary Anne, this is it. This is no drill.

257
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,400
Speaker 10: The government offered us a deal today like being in Woolworths.

258
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 10: For the next half hour, you can get an ice

259
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 10: cream Sunday for fifty three cents, short interruption in the music,

260
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,560
Speaker 10: and then on a package deal for the twenty eight

261
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 10: oh leo that tastes as good as the seventy nine

262
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 10: cent spread. I couldnot possibly scream loud enough.

263
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 1: Number two a chance for many of them to walk

264
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,880
Speaker 1: away with a slap on the wrist and for the

265
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: big fish to do relatively little prison time.

266
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 7: We got an offer deal.

267
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 10: Drop fifteen defendants, thirteen plead guilty to one charge, any

268
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 10: charge our choice, you see, all must accept or no deal.

269
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 7: That meant some people would walk, including like people with kids.

270
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 7: And I mean, it was really a big deal, and

271
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 7: we had to talk about it. So they gave us

272
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 7: the courtroom and we had this big Powow all of

273
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 7: us together and discussed whether we should go through with it.

274
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: They met for nearly two hours, and there were strong

275
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 1: arguments for taking the Plea deal.

276
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 7: And it was really amazing conversations. And I mean some people,

277
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 7: for God's sakes, their lives were everything was in jeopardy.

278
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 7: Think of yourself now, right, You have kids, you have

279
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 7: a partner, you have a job. But it didn't take

280
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 7: long for us all the rehash of conversations we had

281
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 7: as we were planning this action, which was why are

282
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 7: we doing this, what do we want to accomplish, We've

283
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 7: come this far, what should we do?

284
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: Led by the raiders that faced certain jail time, there

285
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 1: was suddenly a groundswell in their ranks to reject the

286
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: government deal entirely.

287
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 7: Basically, I was saying, you know, I'm willing to go

288
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 7: to prison.

289
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: The judge had allowed them to go pro say and

290
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: defend themselves. This was the movement's first opportunity to really

291
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: put the Vietnam War on trial, and.

292
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 7: We had decided that the trial was as much a

293
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 7: part of the action as the action itself, because it

294
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 7: was going to be our opportunity to speak publicly about

295
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,679
Speaker 7: why we did it.

296
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,280
Speaker 1: They argued that they were all serious activists who'd already

297
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 1: invested a year and a half of their lives and

298
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: careers in facing up to the government, and this was

299
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 1: their moment did risk the maximum jail penalty and take

300
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,119
Speaker 1: the case to trial.

301
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 7: And then when we decided we were all in agreement

302
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 7: that we would go to trial, we would reject their offer.

303
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 7: Even those who could have walked away from it were

304
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,640
Speaker 7: so empowering. We all all tand in a circle and

305
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 7: we knocked on the door to call the US marshall

306
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 7: in to say, tell them we're ready for trial.

307
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 12: Do you know the prosecutor was right?

308
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:02,880
Speaker 8: Oh?

309
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,120
Speaker 1: I would love to ask you about that.

310
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 7: It was Donald Trump's brother in law.

311
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? That is boker.

312
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 6: I'm telling you. The story could write itself.

313
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: That prosecutor John Berry was a formidable opponent and after

314
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 1: they rejected his deal, he was hell bent for leather.

315
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 5: So it was a three and a half month trial.

316
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,640
Speaker 7: We would have our trial during the day, and then

317
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,959
Speaker 7: after the trial we would all go and meet for

318
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 7: a couple hours every friggin every day. I thought to myself,

319
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 7: I never want to go to another meeting for the

320
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 7: rest of my life after that.

321
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 5: So, while twenty one people went to court every day

322
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 5: for three months, Sarah and I were publishing a newsletter

323
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 5: updates on what was happening in the trial.

324
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 7: We paid for copies of transcripts and we reviewed those

325
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 7: and talked about stuff, and we talked strategy every night.

326
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 7: You know, what are we doing tomorrow? Who are we calling,

327
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 7: what are they going to do? How are we going

328
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 7: to do it?

329
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: The opening statements took two days because there were twenty

330
00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 1: of them. Cookie wrote her as with kipt here. We

331
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,880
Speaker 1: are all here, she said, because a war was waged

332
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: in Indo, China, not because a crime was committed in Camden.

333
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 1: If we are guilty of anything, then it is our

334
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 1: eagerness to take seriously the value of human life and

335
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 1: to ponder in earnest what the destruction of thousands of

336
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: lives must mean. Prosecutor Barry called a string of eleven

337
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 1: witnesses over eighteen court days, nine of whom were FBI agents,

338
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: and the defendants noticed a peculiar thing. When the FBI

339
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: agents started taking the stand, they were all insisting that

340
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: on the night of the arrest they had not drawn

341
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: their guns.

342
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 13: The FBI apparently made some kind of statement that their

343
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 13: weapons were holstered when they arrested the Camden twenty eight.

344
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 3: That is a complete lot.

345
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 7: We were constantly raising it, isn't it true you had

346
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 7: a gun? Though I was cross examining this agent, He's like, no,

347
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 7: we didn't have guns, and I said, you're telling me

348
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 7: you didn't. I'm argument, I get an objection, and the

349
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 7: judge is saying, you know, what's the basis of your objection?

350
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 7: Talking to the prosecute, the US attorney, And my argument was, Judge,

351
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 7: I know he had a gun. I was there, I

352
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 7: saw him.

353
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 13: So I have not forgotten that, and nor have I

354
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 13: forgiven that the idea that they came in with other

355
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 13: guns and their holsters is bullshit.

356
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 3: They did not want the image that they had pulled

357
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 3: guns out on us, and they denied one after another.

358
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 3: Their whole testimony became questionable because it seemed so crazy

359
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: to think that they wouldn't pull out guns while they're

360
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 3: arresting people.

361
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: The agents were in lockstep on their strategy. Prosecutor Barry

362
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 1: had an astounding level of details to put into evidence.

363
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 1: As the prosecution's case was made, John Barry continually tried

364
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: to introduce the defendants prior bad acts, earlier raids they

365
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: might have pulled as a way to paint their guilt

366
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 1: to the jury, with or without help from Bob Hardy

367
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: in the FBI. But the defendant continually raised objections whenever

368
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: he did this, sometimes all leaping to their feet at once.

369
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: One hilarious irony throughout the proceeding was that the FBI

370
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: had supported this raid, hoping they could catch whoever did media.

371
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: But the Camden twenty eight were able to use the

372
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: media documents as a basis for their cross examination.

373
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 4: My favorite thing was cross examining FBI agents after they'd

374
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 4: given their testimony and reading them from the files that

375
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 4: we'd stolen in the media burglary, and ask them what

376
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 4: they thought.

377
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: And that's the best part of all. Unbeknownst to everyone

378
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, including his own co defendants, wed X

379
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: was one of the media burglars, and brazenly he put

380
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: himself forward as the foremost expert in the group on

381
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: those particular documents. He argued that if the government wanted

382
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: to introduce their prior bad acts, why couldn't he introduce

383
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: the governments with the media papers. The judge denied his motion.

384
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 1: During one of Cookie Ridolfi's crosses, she and a co

385
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: consul came up with a way to illustrate just how

386
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: much the FBI, through Bob Hardy, had in fact donated

387
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: to the cause of this race.

388
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 7: FBI provided a lot of supplies, you know, tools and

389
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 7: money and this and that.

390
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: So she used those tools as illustrations in open core.

391
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 7: Let's pick up everything that he provided and should give

392
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 7: them to the FBI agents one at a time and

393
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 7: say where dis come from? Where disc come from?

394
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: On the floor in front of the jury, she made

395
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: one pile of evidence exhibits the FBI had paid for

396
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: through Bob Hardy. It had ropes, wrenches, hammers, pliers, probars, tape,

397
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: glass cutters, walkie talkies, binoculars, and the pile became very large.

398
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: And then she made another pile of tools that the

399
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: Cannon twenty eight had provided, and it consisted of some

400
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: drill bits and a can of VH juice. Cookie pointed

401
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: out how similarly the defendants and the FBI had operated

402
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: leading up to the raid. And then she turned the

403
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: tables on the FBI agent on the stand. Would it

404
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: be fair to say? She asked that the FBI, for

405
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: different reasons, was interested in seeing those draft files destroyed.

406
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 6: The government rested its case on Friday.

407
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 10: Now it's all getting close, verdict consequences. It clutches in

408
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 10: my guts sometimes working hard overworking. But okay, as you know,

409
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 10: loving empowers us to do things that seems so damn impossible.

410
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: But what about Bob Hardy. Ever since the arrest and

411
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: his grand jury testimony a year and a half prior,

412
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: Bob Hardy had been going through hell. News that he

413
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: had snitched to the FBI lost him friends and clients,

414
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: and got his tires slashed. People called him names on

415
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: the street, and.

416
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 12: We didn't know to later that he was actually being

417
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 12: paid for information.

418
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: He received a letter from j Edgar Hoover saying, dear

419
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: mister Hardy, I want to thank you for what you've done.

420
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: You've done in ten weeks what it would have taken

421
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: two hundred agents a year to accomplish. Our country is

422
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: very grateful. And the envelope included fifty one hundred dollars bills.

423
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: This was Bob Hardy's thirty pieces of silver. But then

424
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: a month after the arrest, there was a knock at

425
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: the door.

426
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 12: He was on his way out. He was taking his

427
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 12: kids out to go get some shoes.

428
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: The Hoover money had loosened things up a bit for

429
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: his family, and.

430
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 12: When he got to the front door, somebody was there,

431
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 12: was a reporter from the Inquirer, and he said, okay,

432
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 12: come on in, and he told the kids to go play.

433
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 12: He would be with them. Shortly, his nine year.

434
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: Old son, Billy, began climbing a tree and when a

435
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: neighbor yelled at him, in his haste to get down,

436
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: he slipped.

437
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 12: His son fell out of the tree, was a pale

438
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 12: on the fence.

439
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: Three spikes went into his son's stomach and he had

440
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: to be rushed to the hospital. Father Mike Doyle went

441
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: immediately to be with.

442
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 12: Him, and Michael Doyle went to the hospital to pray

443
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 12: with the child. I mean, Michael just has so much goodness.

444
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 12: You know that he would not let that stop him

445
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 12: from supporting party's family.

446
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: And knowing that he had been the informer, all the people,

447
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 2: all the Canon twenty eight People's supporters, everybody else showed

448
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: up in support of Bob Hardy Stanley. I mean that time.

449
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: Billy Hardy held on for three weeks before succumbing to

450
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: his injuries.

451
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 8: So he lost I think he was nine.

452
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: His little boy, Mary Anne.

453
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 8: And of course everyone from the community went to the

454
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 8: funeral and went to the wake and were heartbroken for

455
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 8: him about having lost his child, and he was so

456
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 8: overcome with grief and so overcome. The people obviously completely

457
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 8: forgave him for whatever he did and came and had

458
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 8: enormous sympathy and real condolence for him.

459
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: Despite their differences. Bob Hardy asked Father Mike Doyle to

460
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: officiate his son's funeral mass.

461
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 5: Many members of the kim in twenty eight who were

462
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 5: in town at the time went to the funeral offered

463
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 5: support and sympathy to Bob and his wife, which I

464
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 5: think he was aghast at, because I mean, he just

465
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 5: sold everybody down the river.

466
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 12: When that happened. We went and we went in to

467
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 12: the church and was so bizarre. There was like, you know,

468
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 12: a wedding and have the grooves side and the brideside.

469
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 12: Well there was the FBI Asian side and our side,

470
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 12: and it was quite a scene.

471
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 8: But he apparently began to think it was a punishment

472
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 8: for what he had done.

473
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: There is new scholarship about the story of Judas Iscariot.

474
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: A Gospel of Judas was discovered in e in the

475
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. New translations suggests the word betrayer may have

476
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: been a bridge too far, and in fact Judas may

477
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: simply have been attempting to hand over Jesus to the

478
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: High Priest so that they could broke or some sort

479
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: of peace. But after Jesus's capture, Judas quickly became aware

480
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: of the High Priest's intentions and tried to return the silver.

481
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: This messy version feels more human, and Judas was, above

482
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: all a human being. Bob Hardy, you may remember, was

483
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: upset after they did the dry run because he had

484
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: carefully arranged for his Camden friends like father Mike Doyle,

485
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: not to be part of the dry run so they

486
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't be there when the FBI swooped in to arrest everybody.

487
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: He maintained he wanted to protect his local friends from

488
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: the out of town interlopers and that the FBI had

489
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: agreed to let his people walk. But on the night

490
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: of the arrest, the FBI agent stood down for two

491
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: hours while all the raiders, including the local candidates, racked

492
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: up more and more charges. Bob Hardy, who believed in

493
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: what he had done in the name of justice, now

494
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: saw that perhaps he picked the wrong side and began

495
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: to waver.

496
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 5: And so then I think the government didn't know what

497
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 5: the hell to do with him, because he was flopping.

498
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 5: You know, who am my friend? Where do my sympathies lie?

499
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Hardy met with his FBI handler and told him of

500
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: his discontent. The agent told him to keep it to

501
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: himself or he might end up hit by a truck

502
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: one day.

503
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 2: And that's the point at which she said, I'm not

504
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: doing this. I can't inform on these people.

505
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 8: And he then turned on the FBI.

506
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: And then the betrayer betrayed those who had betrayed him.

507
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: He told Father Mike Doyle he wanted to write down

508
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: what he knew in order to protect himself and his family.

509
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: And a key piece of the puzzle now became clear

510
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: to the defendants. Without Hardy, without the FBI, this raid

511
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: never would have happened.

512
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: They were not going to do this. They had decided

513
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: to quit. I was a provocateur in effect.

514
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 1: The Canden Crew, you'll remember, had all but given up

515
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: when Hardy first entered the action and cajoled them to

516
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: keep going. So during the trial. After the prosecution rested

517
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: their case, the first outside witness called by the defense

518
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: was Bob Hardy.

519
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 8: So he in the trial testified on behalf of the defendants.

520
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 10: Mary Anne Patrick. Bob Hardy walked down the street today,

521
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 10: What a dizzy, spiraling crunch, the stench of gas, eerie

522
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 10: street's triumph of tattered files, shot buckles, chains bars. He

523
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 10: takes the stand Tuesday, Robert W. Hardy informer.

524
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: It was the first time in the history of the

525
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: United States that a government informer had been called as

526
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: a witness by the defense rather than the prosecution.

527
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: You just said, these were the most wonderful people I've

528
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: ever known, courageous and gentle and non violent and committed.

529
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: He said, Well, when it came to knowing how to

530
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: do a burglary, they were really, really hopeless. There you

531
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: have it, kind of an epitaph of the Catholic Left. Wonderful, beautiful, moral,

532
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: serious people, but really third rate burglars.

533
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: He testified that when he had offered Keith Forsyth the

534
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: gun in his van, it was because the FBI wanted

535
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: to find out if they were violent. He testified to

536
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: how encouraging the FBI was in his involvement, and how

537
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: they reimbursed him and paid him for his trouble.

538
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 10: Bob Hardy bought me a strawberry milkshake in the White

539
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 10: Tower Tuesday after court, trying to look someone in the eye,

540
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 10: and everything is slightly out of focus.

541
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: Such was the ballad of Bob Hardy, not a friend

542
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: in the world, a betrayer, betrayed, silver pieces scattered across

543
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: the temple floor, with only his intentions and best laid

544
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: plans and a strawberry milkshake to keep him company. For

545
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: the rest of the Camden twenty eighth defense case, they

546
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: turned the courtroom into a symposium on the war.

547
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 5: It was really quite a spectacle and wonderful. A lot

548
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 5: of good testimony, a lot of people came forward. The

549
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 5: judge was incredibly lenient.

550
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Barry vigorously objected to everything that wasn't about the

551
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: specific case in Camden, But the judge astoundingly decided he

552
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: did not want the jury to be weighing the defendants'

553
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: fates in a vacuum.

554
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: He gave them as much leeway as you could possibly

555
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: have hoped for. After year after year after year after year,

556
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: you know, objection, your honor sustain. Objection, your honor, sustain,

557
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: this is not about the war in Vietnam. It's about

558
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: a criminal act. Objection, your honor. The judge said, well,

559
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to deny your motion, mister prosecutor. I think

560
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: we need to hear the context that these people were

561
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: doing these things in or it'll be incomprehensible.

562
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: He started to let more and more testimony in, and

563
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: sometimes he would let testimony said, but he'd have the

564
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: jury excused. Other times he just got so fascinated himself

565
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: by the stories that were being told that he was

566
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: riveted by what was gone on in the court room.

567
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: This gave them the opening they needed to finally make

568
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: the movement's case on behalf of all the raids that

569
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: had come before.

570
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: So we were guilty on all charges, and we were

571
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: saying we were guilty on all charges by law. But

572
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: we presented the argument like a fire department breaking into

573
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: a burning building to save people. This building of the

574
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: United States was burning, and we were breaking into save

575
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: lives in Vietnam, to save our own soldiers' lives.

576
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: One of the defendants felt that the best way for

577
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: her to testify to her motives was to ask Sarah

578
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: Tosi to sing a song on the witness stand by Peter,

579
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: Paul and Mary called the Great Mandela. Singing together was

580
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: a major part of the Camden twenty eight culture, and

581
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: the song summed up perfectly their objections to the war

582
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: and the draft.

583
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 5: Sarah was extremely smart, very thoughtful, cerebral intense. She had

584
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 5: an intensity about her. We sang a lot of duets

585
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 5: when she played her guitar, you know, like Jacquearl songs

586
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 5: and the Great Mandala. I mean we had this like repertoire.

587
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 6: We would sing.

588
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 5: People say, oh, Sarah, can you play your guitar?

589
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 6: Can you guys sing?

590
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: The judge, of course, had never heard such a proposal

591
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: in all his years on the bench, but eventually he

592
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: consented to allow Sarah to sing the song from the

593
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: stand with the jury absent from the courtroom.

594
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 10: Mary Anne Patrick Thursday, I gave something called an order

595
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 10: of proof. I walked the witness stand with my guitar

596
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 10: on my shoulder, and I sang the Great Mandela. The

597
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 10: judge sat to the right, creaking in his chair. The

598
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 10: prosecutors sat in front of me. I sang into their faces.

599
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 10: I sang till those damn walls echoed till the typewriters

600
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 10: stopped in the clerk's office, till heads bowed over the

601
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 10: defense table.

602
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 6: The prosecutor rose up.

603
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 10: This is a travesty, he said, Yeah, I sang my

604
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 10: guts out to federal ears.

605
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: The following day, in open court, the judge said that

606
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: the performance was respectful and reverential.

607
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 10: I can't begin to speculate where it's all headed, but

608
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 10: it's spring again, quiet, rainy evening, and courage revered. Hoping

609
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 10: flows not easily, but it flows.

610
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: Then Paul Koming took the stand. Six of the raiders

611
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: had met at his sanctuary at the Paulice Center. The

612
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: prosecutor did everything he could in his cross examination to

613
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: get Paul to admit to prior bad acts and fill

614
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: the government's gaps and knowledge about the Catholic less previous activity.

615
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: The defendants then accused Prosecutor Barry of being on a

616
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: fishing expedition for incriminating testimony. When he would ask Paul

617
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: questions like did you participate in the Boston raid? At once,

618
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: the defendants would all leap to their feet. Paul replied,

619
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: as far as giving any more information to indict myself

620
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: on any other charges. I don't think it is right.

621
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: If the Constitution agrees with me, then so be it,

622
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: to which the judge said, I take it you are

623
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: invoking the Fifth Amendment in not replying to the question.

624
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: Is that right? And Kooming responded if the Fifth Amendment

625
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: says what I said? Okay. Weed X, once again throwing

626
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: caution to the wind, then stood up and reminded the

627
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: judge that he had been prohibited from asking about the

628
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: FBI's prior bad acts as revealed by the media papers.

629
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 1: If mister Barry is going to be permitted to ask

630
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: specific questions which could lead to indictment of any of

631
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: my brothers or sisters, he said, that, to me would

632
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: represent a travesty of justice. It will indicate, at least

633
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: to my own mind, that the American system of justice

634
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: is directed only against little people and not against representatives

635
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: of the government itself. The Kendon twenty eight then called

636
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: Dan Berrigan and Phil Berrigan to the stand, as they

637
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: were both finally out of jail, and when Dan was

638
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: asked about informers, he responded as follows, even though Judas

639
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: was in our midst we weren't allowed to destroy or

640
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: harm him. By late April, the defense had two more

641
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: witnesses to go. The first was Howard Zen.

642
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 14: I testified during the Vietnam War and a bunch of trials.

643
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 14: You know, there were all these trials of the you know,

644
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 14: the Baltimore four, the Catonsville nine, the Milwaukee fourteen, the

645
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 14: Camden twenty eighth. I testified as a so called expert witness.

646
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 14: Previous trials had taken place in the midst of the war.

647
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 14: By this time, the war was reaching its end. The

648
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 14: anti war movement had become huge, the country had turned

649
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 14: against the war, and I believe that in this atmosphere

650
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 14: the judge was more open to an anti war protest

651
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 14: by the defenders.

652
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 3: So that made it possible for Howard Zen to get

653
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: up there and give his lengthy testimony, which he had

654
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: never been allowed to give, at least in front of

655
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 3: a jury before, and every trial he had been asked

656
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: to testify in about what the war in Vietnam was

657
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: really about.

658
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 14: They'd not committed in just a crime that wasn't simply

659
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 14: breaking an entry. They weren't criminals. They were committing acts

660
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 14: of civil disobedience, and civil disobedience was an honorable tradition

661
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 14: in American history. So that was my job to talk

662
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 14: about the history of civil disobedience. I started with a

663
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 14: Declaration of Independence, which, after all, is you might say,

664
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 14: a manifesto for civil disobedience.

665
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: Howard's first point to the jury was that we are

666
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: all taught that the law is holy, but this misses

667
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: the distinction between law and justice. Law and justice don't

668
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: coincide very often, he said, and when a law perpetuates injustice,

669
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: it must not be obeyed.

670
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 7: He testified for at least a day. I mean, it

671
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 7: was long testimony.

672
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 3: The jurors.

673
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 7: You could hear a pin drop in that room the

674
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 7: whole time.

675
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: Zin then laid out for the jury what had recently

676
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: been revealed in the leaked Pentagon Papers. The papers contained

677
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: the astonishing revelation that the government had been lying to

678
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: the American people for years about this war.

679
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 14: I spoke to the jury for about five hours telling

680
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 14: them what was in the Pentagon Papers.

681
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: Among the more shocking elements of the Pentagon Papers was

682
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: this sentence. We must note that South Vietnam, unlike any

683
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: of the other countries in Southeast Asia, was essentially the

684
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: creation of the United States. Remember how I told you

685
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: the US government had installed Cardinal Spelman's handpicked Catholic mystic

686
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: friend in Vietnam. This had finally been revealed by the

687
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: Pentagon Papers, and Howard Zinn spent the day informing the

688
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: jury about it. But in fact, the US interest in

689
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: Vietnam's resources had actually begun in the post war nineteen forties,

690
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: and it came.

691
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: Down to be in about ten, rubber, and oil, and

692
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 3: that those were three commodities that they had in Vietnam.

693
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: The ten could be mine there, the rubber was grown there,

694
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: and the oil was already known to exist in the

695
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 3: China Sea off the Vietnamese coast.

696
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: Fifty eight thousand young American soldiers had now died in

697
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: Vietnam for tin, rubber, and oil.

698
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: And then in the middle of Howard's end's testimony, the

699
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: key element happened was that this loud, loud sobbing at

700
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: the top of her voice was Bobby Good's mother was

701
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: in the audience listening to him.

702
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: Bob Good was one of the Camden twenty eight defendants.

703
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: Well, Bobby's Goods brother Paul Good, had been killed in Vietnam.

704
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: Her mother was in the audience listening to Howard's Inn

705
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: and hearing all the faint little threads of hope she

706
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 3: had that her son had died in Vietnam for something

707
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 3: worthwhile totally taken away, and that her son had died

708
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: not for the people Vietnam, not for freedom in the world,

709
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 3: but it died because of corporate greed and ten and

710
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: oil and rubber. She just sobbed this incredibly powerful sobbing.

711
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 3: It just stunned the whole court. And it wasn't anything

712
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 3: the judge could overrule, you know. It came from the audience.

713
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: But she solved for just for a minute or two,

714
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: but it stunned everybody, and nobody dared to say anything

715
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: to her or to stop her.

716
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: And then Bob Good's mother, Betty Good, took the stand herself.

717
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 7: She said, I can't testify. I'm too upset, Bhlah about

718
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 7: did you have to testify? So she gets on the

719
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 7: witness stand, and that was I think truly the highest

720
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 7: moment of the entire tribe.

721
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 3: She gets on the stand and tells the story about

722
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 3: how what she had just gone through and why she

723
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 3: was crying out loud, and then such agony was because

724
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: she realized her son had died in vain, that her

725
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 3: son had died without purpose, without any good purpose.

726
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 7: And now I find out, after listening to professors in

727
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 7: that my boy he went over there not for any

728
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 7: good reason or moral reason or justified reason, but he

729
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 7: went over there for rubber tin and oil. And I

730
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 7: am so angry that I was ever proud to put

731
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 7: him on that plane.

732
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: And then she turned immediately to the jury and said,

733
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: and it's these people that are doing the good. They're

734
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 3: doing what we failed to do. She's talking to the

735
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 3: jury is up here saying we failed. My son Paul

736
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: died because I failed to recognize and to stand up earlier.

737
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: These people today and that are we're putting on trial

738
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 3: had no choice but to do what they did, and

739
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: we should be thankful for what they did.

740
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: We should get out of this, she closed. But not

741
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: one of us, not one of us, raised our hands

742
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: to do anything about it. We left it up to

743
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: these people for them to do it, and now we

744
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: are prosecuting them for it.

745
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: That testimony just blew everyone away. It blew the judge away,

746
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: It blewed the jury away.

747
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: One defendant noticed a tear in Judge Fisher's eye when

748
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: Betty Good's testimony was done. By the time it came

749
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: to closing arguments. The marshals and the stenographers had all

750
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: fallen in love with the Camden twenty eight.

751
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 7: The marshals, who in the beginning were putting us through

752
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 7: metal defectors, started wearing twenty eight buttons under their lapels.

753
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: The trial had gone on for over three months and

754
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: the Canden twenty eight had made the courtroom something of

755
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: a home for the jurors. Father Mike Doyle had the

756
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 1: final closing statement before Prosecutor Barry would give his own.

757
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 1: Father Doyle said, now I don't feel comfortable that John

758
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: Barry has the last word. I was thinking about that,

759
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, but that he doesn't have the

760
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: last word. You have the last word. And then I

761
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: was thinking about that, and I think you have the

762
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: last two words. Then Prosecutor John Barry stood up in

763
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: no uncertain terms. He told the jury the defendants had

764
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: broken the law and that political motivation cannot be used

765
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: as a defense. And when he was done, he thanked

766
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: the jury, to whom the fate of the Camden twenty

767
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 1: eight would now be entrusted. When you sit on a jury,

768
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: the first thing that happens after both cases rest, before

769
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: you go into deliberation is that the judge gives you

770
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: instructions and advises you on the meaning of the laws

771
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: you are applying. Judge Fisher told the jury regarding the defendants,

772
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: the law does not recognize religious or moral convictions or

773
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 1: some higher law as justification for the commission of a crime,

774
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: no matter how noble that motive may be. I charge you.

775
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: He said that you may not treat the defendants beliefs

776
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: with respect to the war in Vietnam or other possible

777
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: injustices to which you have heard references as a possible

778
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: negation of criminal intent. The defendant's hearts were gradually sinking

779
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 1: as he spoke, and then he dealt the decisive blow

780
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: the defendants' motivations in this case, the fact that he

781
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: or she was engaged in a protest and the sincere

782
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: belief that he or she was acting in a good

783
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: cause is not an acceptable legal defense or justification. And

784
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: with that they knew their hopes of a hung jury

785
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: were basically dashed, and they were all going off to prison.

786
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 6: Things have a way way of happening.

787
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 10: Strength comes when it is needed most, and paths have

788
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 10: a way of opening when everything seems lost. If only

789
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 10: we can stay open to living and all the risks

790
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 10: it implies.

791
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 6: Amen, let it be.

792
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: The jurors deliberated all day Thursday all day Friday, and

793
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: were sequestered in a hotel for the weekend because of

794
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: the press attention. Some of the defendants stayed up all

795
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: night on Sunday and drove to the Jersey Shore to

796
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: swim in the ocean for the last time.

797
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: Most of us were had given up waiting and gone

798
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: to Atlantic City to go swimming, which was a couple

799
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 3: hour drive away. We got a phone call saying that

800
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: the jury was ready to give the verdict and we

801
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: had to be in the courtroom in a couple of hours.

802
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: So we got out of the Atlantic Ocean which we

803
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 3: had just been swimming in, at sunrise and drove while

804
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: the way back and got into the courtroom just in

805
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 3: time to hear the call.

806
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: The jury entered the courtroom at two thirty five pm.

807
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: The courtroom was packed with two hundred supporters of the

808
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: Candon twenty eight, and there was overflowed down the corridor

809
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 1: and spilling out onto the street.

810
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: We didn't know what was going to happen. The deliberation

811
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: went on for quite a while, over a weekend Monday.

812
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 2: We all shuffled in there.

813
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: The jury roll was called. All were present. The defendants stood,

814
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: linked their arms and bowed their heads. The judge asked

815
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: if they had reached a verdict. They had. The first

816
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: Candon twenty eight defendant in alphabetical order was a man

817
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: named Terry Buckaloo. The foreman would read the verdict on

818
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: every count for every defendant. The judge addressed the foreman,

819
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: how say you, how do you find the defendant Terry

820
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: Edward Buckaloo on count one of the indictment. We find him,

821
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: your honor, not guilty.

822
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 2: The courtroom goes, whoa, And then the second one not guilty,

823
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: not guilty, not you know, the the judge goes, you know,

824
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: is this going to be not guilty on everything? And

825
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 2: he goes, yes, you run a lot.

826
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 5: Everybody, just like all counts, not guilty on all counts,

827
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 5: for all defendants. And when that became known, it was

828
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 5: just like mayhem. You know, the moment of the decision

829
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 5: was spectacular, and one of my most vivid memories of

830
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 5: Sarah is that she began singing Amazing Grace in the

831
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 5: courtroom where we're all holding hands.

832
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 14: And when the verdict of the jury was announced, people

833
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 14: stood up in the court rope and sang amazing grace.

834
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 14: They stood up with.

835
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: It was quite a scene and there was.

836
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 14: A great, great sign of what the anti war movement

837
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 14: had accomplished over the years, and how this sort of

838
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 14: came to a kind of climax in the courtroom in Camden,

839
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 14: New Jersey.

840
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: The judge lingered and the clerks and marshalls joined in

841
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: the singing.

842
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: Because they knew that they had been called to an action.

843
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: They weren't called to make a decision about what that

844
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: we should go to jail or not. They were called

845
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 3: to join in our action, to legitimize it and say

846
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 3: this action was a good thing to do under the circumstances.

847
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: This was the best American thing we can do.

848
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: We were dancing in the aisles. It was quite incredible.

849
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: We were crying, you know when the band, oh, it's

850
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: it's farewell party, when the Beatles are breaking up, but

851
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: they got to have one more bash. That's sort of

852
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: what that trial was.

853
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 3: There was only one restaurant which had a bar in

854
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 3: all of Camden, and so everybody went there, the prosecution,

855
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 3: the judge, the defendants, we all went to the same

856
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: place to eat and the drink.

857
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: One of the Catonsville nine raiders had come to Camden

858
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: to support the defendants and saw the judge at the bar.

859
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 3: He pulled up the chair next to the judge at

860
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 3: the bar. Judge says to him, you know what, those

861
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: people are not the crooks. The crooks are in Washington.

862
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 3: These people are the heroes. These people are the cream

863
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: of the crop. That's what he said about us.

864
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: The New York Times declared the verdict was the first

865
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: total legal victory for the anti war movement in five

866
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: years of such draft board incidents.

867
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 14: The interesting thing about the Camden twenty eighth trial, this

868
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 14: was his first trial of all these trials in which

869
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 14: the defendants were quitted. Even though they were caught red handed.

870
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 14: There they were no question about what they had done.

871
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 3: Despite the fact that we were caught right handed, despite

872
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 3: the fact that we all admitted we did it, and

873
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 3: we all wanted to do it and would do it again,

874
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 3: that jury stood with us and said not guilty because

875
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: they had solidarity with what we had done. That was

876
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 3: when the peace movement won in Camden. We finally didn't

877
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: just win a case, We won the heart of America

878
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 3: over to the fact that the war had got on

879
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: too long and was too wrong to continue.

880
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 14: The American public became aware of the atrocities we were

881
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 14: committing of Vietnam, and after all, American people, like all people,

882
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 14: fundamentally decent when they learned the truth. However, they've been

883
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 14: deceived by the government, by the authorities. When they learned

884
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 14: the truth, they're perfectly willing to change their minds.

885
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 3: Since that May twentieth, nineteen seventy three, have had that

886
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: in my head that if the people know what the

887
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 3: truth is, the people make good decisions. That's what it's

888
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 3: all about.

889
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: If a law is unjust, it must not be obeyed,

890
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: whether it be federal law or canonical. Patrick and mary

891
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 1: Anne were deeply in love. They had been inseparable since

892
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: the night they kissed. He performed his duties as a

893
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic priest during the day and would sneak off

894
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: to Dorchester at night to be with Mary Anne and

895
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: Chrissy and Jojo. He could get himself to forget for

896
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: long stretches of time that he was betraying his vows

897
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: and everyone who attended his liturgies betrayal. It seems when

898
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: you're dealing in passionate feelings. Is as human to love.

899
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: Betrayers become betrayed. Patrick knew somewhere in his mind that

900
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: this situation could not go on forever.

901
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 6: I remember there was this moment.

902
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 8: Patrick went on a trip to I think the Dominican Republic,

903
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 8: and it was the longest way have been apart. I

904
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 8: think we were apart for three weeks, and when we

905
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 8: came back together, it was the first time he hesitated.

906
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 8: It was probably the first time he'd had a moment

907
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 8: to step out of it, first of all where he

908
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 8: could think, like Holy God, because for him it was

909
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 8: the complete end of a way of life.

910
00:53:53,840 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 15: I mean, it was over that way of life.

911
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 8: We had the conversation and it was really painful, but

912
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 8: I remember saying to him that honestly, what I really

913
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 8: wanted for him was for him to be happy and

914
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 8: free and liberated, you know, to be who he's really

915
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 8: meant to be. And if that didn't involve me, I

916
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 8: would be heartbroken, but that would have to be the

917
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 8: way it is or was. And he told me later

918
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 8: that for him that was almost one of the most

919
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 8: extraordinary things that's ever happened to him, Like his experience

920
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 8: of that was that I loved him that unconditionally, which

921
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 8: I did. I did. I wanted him to be who

922
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 8: was meant to be, and I knew I couldn't fathom

923
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 8: life without him. I couldn't fathom. I mean, I cannot

924
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 8: imagine had actually had well, I can because he died,

925
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 8: so I can't imagine. I would have been devastated, absolutely

926
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 8: devastated because I loved him like with my whole I

927
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 8: loved him unconditionally. I loved him with my whole heart.

928
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 8: And for him, I think that was a momentary, it

929
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 8: was like a panic attack because he was about to

930
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 8: give up everything he had just built over the last

931
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 8: ten years of his life, from the seminary through the

932
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 8: police fathers to this moment of walking away from all

933
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 8: of that.

934
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: After that conversation, Patrick knew what he had to do.

935
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: Patrick would leave the priesthood and marry Mary Anne. He

936
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: would do what was right in his heart, canonical law

937
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 1: be damned. But first he had to tell the people

938
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: closest to him, his parents, his seminary brother Jim Carroll,

939
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: and the thousand people that came to his liturgy extravaganzas

940
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: every Sunday.

941
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 8: Because the implications were enormous. I mean, I don't mean

942
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 8: to overblow that, but they were enormous for the people

943
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 8: who were impacted.

944
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: And not really knowing how else to do it, Patrick

945
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: waited until the end of Mass, where typically there would

946
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: be announcements, so he told them that he too had

947
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: an announcement, and that he had fallen in love and

948
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: that he would be getting married to Mary Anne Woodward.

949
00:56:53,640 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: At first, gasps were followed by a stunned silence, and then.

950
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 8: And I thought the roof was going to come off

951
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 8: the building.

952
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 16: People were clapping and shouting and screaming, and it was

953
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 16: I mean, I know, many hundreds of people were really surprised,

954
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 16: and obviously certain people weren't surprised.

955
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: But it was a surprise.

956
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 8: It was a surprise to most and the place went wild.

957
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 8: But they were so joyful, I mean, they were clearly

958
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 8: so happy for him, even though it had huge implications

959
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 8: for the community. I was in the church. It was

960
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 8: in the church, and I remember leaning against like a pillar,

961
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 8: and this woman came over to me and she said, oh,

962
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 8: there's going to be a lot of wet pillows in

963
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 8: the city of Boston tonight.

964
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: So I told you early on that I wouldn't insert

965
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: myself much in this story, but it's here that it

966
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: becomes unavoidable. As your host, I have betrayed you. I

967
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: just could never figure out the right time to tell

968
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: you this. Marianne and Patrick are my mother and father.

969
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: Divine Intervention is a production of iHeart Podcasts. It's produced

970
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: by Wondermedia Network. It was created and written by me,

971
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: your host, Brendan Patrick Hughes. Our robustly proficient producers are

972
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: Carmen Borca Carreo, Abby Delk, Paloma Moreno, Jimenez, Grace Lynch,

973
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: and myself. Our editor is Creator of Worlds Grace Lynch

974
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: for Wonder Media Network. Our executive producers are Emily Rudder

975
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: and Jenny Kaplan for iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producer is

976
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: Christina Everett. This episode was developed using archival material from

977
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: the ante in the Jacchino Canden twenty eight Motion picture

978
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: collection at the Swarthmore College Peace Collection. You can check

979
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: out Anthony Giacchino's documentary The Canden twenty eight for more

980
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: information on this slice of history. The late Saratosi was

981
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: voiced by Carly Pope. Amazing Grace and other music was

982
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 1: arranged and performed by the incredible Morris Smiley, Kai Fukuda

983
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: and friends. The chorus singing La Cromosa from Mozart's Requiem

984
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: was crowdsourced from my friends on social media, arranged by

985
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and produced by me. Thank you to

986
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: all the contributors. Our theme in end credit music was

987
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: composed and performed by Down to Earth rock goddess Tanya

988
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: Donnelly and mastered by Ben Aerons. Masterer to the Stars,

989
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: This is Brendan Patrick Hughes. Thank you for listening to

990
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: Divine Intervention.