WEBVTT - Ben Silverman 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:16.280 I am Ben Silverman, Executive producer of the Office. Hello, 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.920 and welcome to another episode of The Office Deep Dive. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.079 I am your host Brian Baumgartner. Today I am bringing 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:31.520 you someone truly special, and I mean special in the 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:37.360 best of ways. Ben Silverman. He is the person who 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.160 discovered the British version of the show. He approached Ricky 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:45.000 Gervais and Stephen Merchant about bringing the show to the 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.760 United States. He eventually partnered with Greg Daniels, who he 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:56.240 chose to adapt it. So Ben's role was crucial. More importantly, 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.480 I think he appeared in season nine as Jim's athlete 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:05.840 coworker Isaac, So I mean there was that too, um 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:11.720 all joking aside. Ben brings incredible insights into the business 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.280 side of things, the biz, if you will, and he 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.080 has amazing stories about the fights that we're going on 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.760 with the network behind the scenes, while the rest of 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.839 us were just acting like idiots on set. Anyhow, Ben 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.240 has become such a dear friend to me, and even 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.399 after all of these years, I still learn so much 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.200 every time I talked to him. I am sure that 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:40.039 you will as well. So here he is Ben Silverman, 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:51.720 Bubble and Squeak I love it. Bubble and squeakan bubble 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.680 and squeaker cookie every month, left over from the nut before. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:14.040 Ye Heyboddy, I don't sound very good. I think you 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.960 sound really sexy. Oh God, listen to you. How are you? 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.400 I'm good, great to see you. Let me kiss. How's 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.440 your locks? Just get a little locks and some onion 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.480 and I'm good. I can practically tasting it over here. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.200 I'll take one more, but then we'll start your volumes 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.720 on the left. Is everyone ready for us in the back? Yeah? 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.400 And the only reason we haven't already begun the interview 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.040 in a casual fashion it's because you were eating a bagel. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.200 Thank you for that. All right, I'm about to start. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.280 Let me chew it out. I mean, it was fun 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.240 to go back because as well as we know each other, 0:02:55.520 --> 0:03:00.239 there's so much of your like PREMI history, Like I 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.400 think that your life didn't start until you met me, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.280 but you actually did things before, you know, before I 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:12.960 came into your life. So you were the youngest division 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:17.800 head in charge of international packaging at William Morris. That 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.880 makes you, like, what twelve years old at the time, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.440 I was twenty five years old, and I got named 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.680 into that position and around twenty seven or twenty eight 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:32.160 and was in London working for William Morris four years 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.720 from I left there in ninety nine to go to 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.760 New York. Okay, so then you're in New York. How 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.440 did you discover the UK version of the Office. I 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.880 was at my friend Henrietta Conrad's house. I was not 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.680 an agent. I had left being an agent where I 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.880 had found everything from Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:58.720 To Cracker Queer as Folk and had translated them into 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:04.880 America as the packaging agent. And I left back by 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.720 Barry Diller to start my own company called REVELI and 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.840 I had just begun Revenly and went over to London 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.159 for a work trip and was staying at my friend 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:23.640 Henrietta Conrad's house, and we were watching television and I 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.240 was literally, I think, flipping the channels and I came 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.320 on to the Office. This is episode one or two 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.960 of the UK season one Office, and I was watching 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.920 at first wondering if it was for comedy or for real, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:48.279 then quickly recognized what it was doing, single camera, no 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:54.240 laugh track, fo documentary with people who felt real. And 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.320 I kept watching and started laughing and it's really hard 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.520 to make me laugh. And I was falling in love 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.000 with it show right in that moment, and then I 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.560 started thinking about it the next day in the morning, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.880 and I asked Henrietta if she knew Ricky Gervais and 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.000 she said no, but her friend Dan Maser did, and 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.400 we organized and had dinner with Dan that night. Wait, so, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.919 twenty four hours after you after you see it for 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.520 the first time on television, you're having dinner with someone 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.560 who could get you to Ricky. Yes. And additionally I 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.680 also wanted to be with Dan. I mean, Dan was 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:46.000 Sasha Baron Cohen's partner, and Lag was on television, was 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.400 here in the UK. But so I'm with Dan Maser. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.520 Dan is lovely, brilliant and of his own right, and 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.600 I start peppering the questions about the office and he 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:05.400 gives me Ricky's cell phone number. And so the next 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.320 day I call Ricky around eleven o'clock in the morning 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.800 and introduced myself on the phone and say I'd love 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.679 to meet you. Are you in town? He goes, actually, yes, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:24.000 come meet me in Soho at the Starbucks this afternoon, 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.760 and I coordinate a meeting and I spent an hour 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:33.839 with Ricky talking about the Office, and very quickly we 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:40.120 got along because we both love television, and he truly 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.520 was making me laugh even in those moments over over 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:49.080 the coffee at the Starbucks. And so he clearly had 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.840 chosen the location though of the Starbucks, because he then 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.920 says to me, Oh, good news, my agent is right 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.159 around the corner. Let's go meet with him. So it 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.040 was almost like he met me confirmed I was okay. 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.160 The conversation was interesting, and then we walked over and 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.880 met with Duncan Hayes, his agent, and then Duncan and 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:17.520 I began a three month process two secure the rights. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.920 And it wasn't until Duncan help me unlock it all 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:27.000 that I realized both the BBC and Ricky controlled the rights. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:33.120 I needed Ricky and Stephen Merchant to actually get it 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.760 done and agitate to get it done, otherwise it was 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.800 never going to get done. It. So you you deal 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.239 with the BBC, and you deal with Ricky and Stephen. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.480 You have this partnership in place, and where do you 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.640 go into the United States. I immediately start making phone 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.760 calls and saying, are you aware of the show The Office? 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.760 Do you know what it is? Do you think it 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.920 would interest you? And this is probably now a month 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.840 after or so, and the show has started to gain buzz. 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.440 It's aired its cycle in the UK, it's initial six episodes, 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.200 and so it has an awareness. Now it's a thing, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.520 not a big thing, but to anyone in England it's 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.120 in the television industry, you're aware. So I'm I'm back 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.640 at the States reaching out to people. One of the 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.720 incredible things about Hollywood, which was a huge advantage for 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:29.160 me to do well, was that people in Hollywood are 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.640 pretty insular and don't like to travel. They think you 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:38.000 need a passport to get from Burbank to Beverly Hills. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:44.240 That is travel. And so many people at this time 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.199 in American television had no clue or connection about anything 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:56.560 beyond l A. And only one exact at the time 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.520 knew what I was talking about was a guy named 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.360 Nick Grad who worked at f X, and he knew 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.000 what the show was and he loved the show. Kevin 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.240 Riley was running X at the time. I had gone 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.559 to Less Moonvest he passed. I went to gayl Berman, 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:20.440 she passed. Immediately. Didn't get it. HBO said we'll never 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:25.680 do a remake. They clearly have altered that thinking, but 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.080 at the time they were like, we won't do a format, 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:36.160 and Showtime wasn't doing shows like this. I didn't go 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:41.160 to ABC because I just knew it wasn't ABC. And 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:47.360 I was starting to tease NBC with it, and Kevin 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.840 then got named the head of NBC and I bring 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.319 it up to him and I say, would you want 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:58.000 to do it here? And Kevin says absolutely. Little did 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.080 he know he was actually my only buyer by that time, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:07.200 he was the only one everyone else of television. Everyone 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.600 else had passed, now are you? And Kevin's like, let's 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.559 do it, like, let's let's make it. You know, I'll 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.840 give you a pilot movement. And then Kevin's boss, though, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.600 who was very involved in his life, Jeff Zucker, didn't 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.640 really like it that much because it was a single camera, 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.120 no last documentary. I got it like it was a 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.760 hard pill for them to swallow. But I was also like, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.199 they didn't want the game show back in primetime. When 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.080 I brought Millionaire, everyone thought that was cheesy Daytime. I'm like, no, no, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.040 this will change TV. You know, you gotta look at 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:46.040 it from how to push the genre and push the 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.640 envelope so that you can expand versus you know, always 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.520 play for defense, right, And I was like, this is 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.640 another level and this is potentially transformative of television and 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.560 with that can come great reward. You saw that at 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.720 the time that it could be transformative, Yes, you know, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.560 you have those moments. At that moment, I don't know, 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.679 like everything was possible, Like I really saw the transformation 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.880 of television before it was happening. Wow. Okay, So you 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.240 get a pilot commitment from Kevin at NBC. So now 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.480 you have to put a creative team together. So where 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:26.000 do you start looking at that moment? So William Morris 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.719 represented the BBC because I had signed the BBC to 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.400 William Morris of course when I was there, of course 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:39.200 as an agent before I became a producer, and I 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.800 had done the deal with them, so they were part 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.520 of the package, so to speak. But they didn't really 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:49.400 have many good writers for the show at that at 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:54.360 the time. Ari Emmanuel had the good writers. So I 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.840 called him up and they said, Ari, I have the office. 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.920 It's incredible. I will we meet with your guys. But 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:02.440 when you set me up with your best guys, I 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.440 have to organize for Ricky and Stephen some meetings for 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.680 them to help determine who we're all going to partner 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:17.880 with and choose. And Ari was like, absolutely, let's do it, 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.240 you know, and he set me up with a number 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.800 of meetings, and I immediately connected with Greg. You know, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:30.040 I just felt his genius and his thoughtfulness and real 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:36.280 rigorous approach. And he also was so anxious about doing it. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.840 He kept saying to me, well, people love the British one, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.400 you know what, I can't make it better, you know, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.000 I'm I don't want to be compared to it. And 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.560 I had done a show just had aired while I 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.479 was working on this, called Coupling, which was an adaptation 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.120 of a British show much more in the kind of 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.560 Friends vernacular. It was almost as if Friends had been 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:06.079 adapted adapted to the UK. Yeah, exactly, And that show 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.560 had been perceived really poorly in America, and Greg was 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.120 worried that was going to happen, and all the comparisons, 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:22.559 so the halo of Coupling's failure was impinging his ability 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.080 to kind of wrap his arms around the office, and 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.240 the preconceived notion of everyone's saying, why would you adapt 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.200 that it's hallowed ground, etcetera, etcetera. So then I go 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.960 to having to defend wanting to remake this great work. 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:43.360 And I was explaining to Greg because he was who 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.960 I now really wanted to do it, and he suddenly 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.600 was getting some cold feet based on the concern of 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:57.360 adapting something so so now like critically beloved. And I said, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.000 no one in America has seen this one. It's too dark, 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.960 too narrow, and not gonna play to a wide American 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:11.800 audience unless we do a more optimistic adaptation, informed by 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:16.680 your vision and your ownership of the world. And there 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.240 are millions of great books that are adapted all the time. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.040 Do you want to adapt the worst piece of ship? 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.280 Are you trying to adapt a Pulitzer Prize winning novel? 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.600 And the correlation between a da Vinci code and a 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.640 da Vinci code is much higher then not, you know. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.880 And so having you like explain the history of expanding 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.240 I p that was successful was rather frustrating, and I 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:47.200 kind of was thrown by today. Now everyone if something's great, 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.520 they want to remake it. You know, it's totally different. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.600 So I go through all this work, and not only that, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.680 I then I have Ricky and Stephen come over to 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.040 l A to my office on the universal lot of 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:04.200 the time in our little bungalows, and I have them 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.080 in the office and we're going through the meetings and 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.440 at the end they they're like, yes, you know, Greg 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.840 Daniels is great. And then from there I then have 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:19.800 to get NBC to sign off, and Kevin says, has 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:25.240 Greg done any live action stuff? You know, he's great 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.480 in animation, but who else he got? And I'm kind 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.760 of like, well, he's who we got. He's really good, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.920 and Ricky and Stephen like, and so Kevin said, okay, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:44.320 let's meet and talk and immediately understood and connected with 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:50.360 Greg on him adapting it. And then within that meeting 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.320 even it immediately turns to casting because that is such 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:59.280 a key sitting across from the beloved Kevin Um, that 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.720 is such a he to this show's architecture, which also, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.800 I mean, telling the story just reminds you how many 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.520 millions of elements have to come together to create any 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.440 thing meaningful or successful. Right? So who who Who's discussed 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.600 in that meeting? Me right, it's all about Brian Baumgartner. Okay, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.080 all right, now, So in in the meeting, we're just 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:27.360 talking about archetypes and whether we cast famous people or 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.200 unknowns to play with the faux documentary. Did you have 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.920 an opinion about keeping the integrity? I just wanted it right, 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.880 but I knew that the characters and who we cast 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.960 had to be real and not too pretty. And that 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.760 was another leap of faith from the broadcast network, because 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.960 everything at the time was friends, right, everybody looked a 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.600 certain way. It was not just friends. It was friends 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.120 and bay Watch. It was like it was friends and 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.360 it was friends and bathing suits. That was like, that 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.840 was the landscape of TV be in that moment and 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.720 heading on a town where spiral of beauty and superficiality 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:13.080 at that time, and so talking about those actors, we 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.640 immediately brought on Alison Jones to be our casting partner. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:23.800 We loved what she had done. And Judd Apatao and 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:29.040 his world and model was kind of the one other 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.760 framework we were looking at as we were building out 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.919 the show, and the actors he was casting and the 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.960 stories he was writing and the comedy he was creating 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.600 had a similar energy and feel and a sense of discovery. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.040 The other thing that we talked about with Kevin and 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.359 that Greg agreed with me on is one of the 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.440 things that television used to do incredibly well and still 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.879 does do, but less people give it the opportunity to 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.919 is create stars. It's a place you have someone in 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.520 your living room or in your bedroom, and you're watching 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.400 and connecting with them every week, and you can fall 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:07.760 in love with them and in a way you want 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:12.439 to have discovered them. It's not just a movie idol 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.720 coming into your kitchen. There's like this sense of ownership. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.360 I see it when I walk around with you. Obviously 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.960 your characters beloved, Brian, but you know, the way people 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.800 treat a television star who's kind of grown up with 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:29.800 them is so familial, totally and natural. So that was 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.040 part of what also was the pitch to the office, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:37.240 like we can create those stars here, right because it's 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.480 it is different than, you know, than film stars, because 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.360 people are watching you in their bedrooms. They're watching you, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:50.600 they're they're not high on a huge billboard. Absolutely, Um, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.199 what do you remember about the casting? So so we 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:59.560 brought on Alison Jones and we opened up in our bungalow, 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.119 turned our conference room into a casting room, and we 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:09.120 began that process. Our immediate shortlist for the actor lad 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.359 and lobby by him was Bob oden Kirk to play 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:19.080 the Michael Scott character. And we were into him for it. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.200 It was a real thing, but we weren't fully there. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.959 And then we started casting. We and we found started 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.120 collecting talent. Krasinski. We found it on a tape out 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.040 of New York. I think he had literally just graduated 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:37.879 Brown and characters like yours and your arrival into the show, 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.840 and Fullness and Leslie and you know, all these wonderful 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.399 character actors, Craig Robinson, you know, just all these brilliant people. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:54.359 And obviously there's Jenna Fisher. Jenna had such a accessible 0:19:55.280 --> 0:20:01.840 sweetness and sadness to her. And I think of it. 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.520 I mean, I don't know how old she was at 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.960 the time or John, but they felt like children, you know, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.920 they felt like kids. I was a kid, but they 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.240 were younger than me. I mean I was only thirty 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.800 at the time and they must have been twenty, you know, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.520 so it was like, really you really felt all this 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.000 innocence and warmth and life coming through them. And then 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.040 obviously we all grew up together. Okay, so we we 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.919 still don't have We still don't have Michael Scott. I 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.040 am panicking and I get a call from Stacy Snyder, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.520 who was head of Universal Pictures at the time. And 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.840 Stacy calls me up on the lot and says, Ben, 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.560 I love the Office and she always would talk to 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.399 me about it. It's so brilliant, it's so awesome. And 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.439 she said that she absolutely loved it. And she had 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:02.120 an idea for me. What about Steve Carrell four the lead? 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:07.240 And she said, have you seen Bruce Almighty? Watch him 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.320 be the anchor in and do this fifteen minute thing 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.440 during the show. It is the most brilliant comedic tour 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.440 diforce I've seen. And we're developing a movie for him, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.920 forty year old virgin and I think he's going to 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.639 be a major star. I had seen Bruce Almighty, it 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.439 was great. I knew exactly what she was talking about. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.920 So I start to educate Greg and Greg goes, yes, 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.320 I know Steve Carell. He's on TV, he's got he's 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.679 got a series Come to Papa, which he was like 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:45.360 the fourth lead of a short lived NBC sitcom. And 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.800 I call Kevin Riley and I'm like, you've got this 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.360 guy in your show, But he has to be our guy, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.800 and he goes, you didn't hear from me, but I 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.800 don't think I'm to Papa will come back. But I 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.280 can't tell anyone. So he told you that at the time. Yeah, 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.400 he basically let me know, but no one else kind 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.800 of knew. It was only like Kevin and I who knew. 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:14.159 And it was very stressful, unbelievable. So how did you 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.920 decide on Ken Kappas? So Ken forget who recommended him 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.560 to us, But he had done the Bernie Bernie Mac 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.719 show and in the Middle. He had a good reputation 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:27.320 and Malcolm in the Middle had a lot of the 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:31.840 energy stylistically we were going forward, but I still was 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:36.879 worried that we didn't have enough of the reality show 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.920 architecture and how we were going to produce it. And 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:47.879 so I introduced Greg to Randall Einhorn because Randall he 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.119 had come out of Mark Burnett's camp, and I had 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:53.359 hired him for other shows or worked with him on 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.760 on other reality shows, and I knew we needed somebody 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.600 from that world stylistically to shoot in that way, but 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:06.480 also so that we wouldn't set everything up as slowly 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:11.439 as traditional scripted comedy was produced, and Randal ended up 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:15.920 staying with us for five years. Five years, but he 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.520 helped four jar style and it was an essential element. 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:25.680 So putting together Greg Daniels, can co office, Randoline Horn, 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.800 getting bad cast together, and now we got to shoot 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:52.880 a pilot. How much of the pilot were you around? 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:55.879 I was around for the whole pilot, right. What do 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.639 you any anything specifically you remember about the shooting of 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:03.119 that Once the team was a ssembled, I remember finding 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:08.480 elements of it really funny and believing wholeheartedly in the cast. 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:12.000 I think the storyline we chose ended up being not 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:17.479 necessarily the best one to set it up. All I remember, Visavi. 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.439 The decision to go with the underlying pilot script is 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.080 we had spent so much time with Ricky and Stephen, 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:29.119 and had studied with them in the UK at the 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.040 Groucho Club for two days. Because I remember us going 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.200 over and and spending time with them as they downloaded 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:39.400 this about all things British Office. We not only fell 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:40.760 in love with them, we fell in love with the 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:45.080 British show. So I think we thought it's brilliant. Let's 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.439 stick with that brilliance, and that was our initial feeling 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:53.480 was to respect the underlying almost too much and not 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.719 allow our ability to breathe the air into it we 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:01.639 needed to do for the amount con adaptation maybe, but 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.359 I think ultimately every pilot has its problems, right because 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:07.560 you're trying to set up so much. But what that 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:12.159 pilot did was set up that a documentary crew is 0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:17.320 coming in to film the employees at this paper company, 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:20.960 and ultimately, in order to start there and to end 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.120 where we did with the documentary coming out and everybody 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:28.760 seeing themselves on camera having been followed for nine years, 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:31.800 it had to start there. Now. How it was written 0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:35.679 or if it, you know, directly translated from from the 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.200 British version, I don't know, but don't you think that's important. 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:42.560 I like a set up. I think cinematically most movies 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:45.879 you get the bill to get to the finale. In 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:48.800 television there's always a debate do you enter a series 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.840 midswing or do you started off with a inception story? 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:58.000 And so I agree with you in that setup, but 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:00.840 I feel like we could have open in a little 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:05.280 bit more of what is specific to Scranton in America 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.840 and to those characters. If you end up discovering what 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:13.199 the actors enjoy play too, and become as you know 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.239 them over nine years and two d plus episodes, and 0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:20.240 so the writing becomes easier and better, and the performances 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:25.560 become more in tune and character based, and that takes time, 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:28.120 and it's part of what's great about the new wave 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.080 of television is the straight two series and putting them 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:32.800 all out so that they have a chance to breathe 0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:36.320 and be discovered. At that time, you didn't have that luxury. 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:39.840 This was a day and time when the heads of 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.040 the networks read the ratings at like four in the 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:47.640 morning of what happened the night before, and I had 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.560 a phone number in my phone as an actor, and 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.440 I would give the weekly reports on Friday morning at 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:56.359 like eight am. I would be in the makeup trailer 0:26:56.400 --> 0:26:59.760 going okay, four point seven last night, guys, And that 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:04.919 put this blah blah blah exactly exactly that process, and 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:11.760 that was reactive programming. Decisions were definitely fear invoking. And 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:15.879 then we launched the show. When we finally got a 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:18.680 series picked up off the pilot, it was for five 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:22.560 more episodes. It's crazy what we got a six episode 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:28.119 run that didn't happen that is total We're only doing 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:31.639 this because you're torturing us to do it. That is 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:37.000 not we We wholeheartedly believe in your show. But they 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:41.360 then put us on after the Apprentice, which was very strange. 0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:45.480 At the time. We aired later than normal because they 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:49.399 thought the Apprentice, set in a workplace environment, was like 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:53.240 the right match for the show. Did you agree. I 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:57.720 like that the Apprentice had a larger circulation of audience, 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:02.080 and The Apprentice, actually, like all of NBC shows, had 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:09.399 a slightly higher concentration of urban dwelling fans. It was 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:12.840