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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. Sager is with us,

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Speaker 2: although remotely he has an entire plug going through his

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Speaker 2: household that I personally did not want him to spread here,

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Speaker 2: and he also, I think did not want to spread here.

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Speaker 3: So I did not want to spread it. I apologize

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Speaker 3: even for coming in yesterday. I should have known better

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Speaker 3: neurovirus plaguing through the Jetty household at the moment.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but thank you. I'm doing my best.

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Speaker 3: We're going to stand up here very very strong, and

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Speaker 3: so Thursday, everybody can't forget to say that here on

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: We have a lot to get too, So we're going

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Speaker 2: to break down this ice shot and killed in ice.

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Speaker 4: What we think in nce agent?

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Speaker 2: We actually don't know what agency they are with, but

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Speaker 2: we'll just go with ice shot and killed a woman

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. Government immediately lied about it. We're going to

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Speaker 2: tell you everything we know. I mean, look, it's very

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Speaker 2: disturbing to me, may be disturbing to you as well,

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Speaker 2: So trigger warning here at the top. We're going to

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Speaker 2: show all the videos, all the angles, all of that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. We've also got a bunch of updates

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Speaker 2: on Venezuela, including some more indications of what the plans

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Speaker 2: are for the oil treat to Parsi is going to

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Speaker 2: join to talk more about the broader geopolitics, always, of

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Speaker 2: course a fantastic guess. He's going to join me here

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Speaker 2: in studio. Trump making some interesting announcements, in particular saying

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Speaker 2: that he wants to use an executive order to ban

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Speaker 2: Wall Street from buying single family home So can you

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Speaker 2: do that? What impact will it have? How will Republicans react?

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Speaker 2: We'll get into all of that. We've also got a

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Speaker 2: bunch of stuff going on in terms of the midterms,

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Speaker 2: and specifically, Republican majority is almost non existent, already very

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Speaker 2: possible that they will functionally lose their majority before we

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Speaker 2: even get to the midterm. So a lot of updates

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Speaker 2: there and then on I guess the lighter side, we're

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Speaker 2: going to take a look at CBS News Tony Kopple

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Speaker 2: just stinking it up over there and turning it into

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Speaker 2: the most embarrassing state TV propaganda that you could possibly imagine. Genuinely,

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Speaker 2: I think already worse than Fox News.

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Speaker 4: What do you think, Soger?

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Speaker 2: Oh? What?

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Speaker 3: Much much worse, because at least Fox News is much

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Speaker 3: more honest. They're trying to, like, do you know, the

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Speaker 3: classic lame both sides ism, which is also clearly one sided.

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Speaker 3: We might also call it the track of Barry Weiss's

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Speaker 3: entire career. So I am very excited, and we will

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Speaker 3: share a little bit of information about Tony which we

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Speaker 3: often joke about privately, but I think it's time to

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Speaker 3: come out into the light.

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Speaker 1: I think people should understand who mister Dacoppel is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So so stay tuned for all of that. But

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Speaker 2: let's go ahead and get started with this ICE shooting

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. So you guys know, we covered on the

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Speaker 2: show that the Trumpet men stration surge two thousand ICE

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Speaker 2: agents into Minneapolis mostly in response to this Nick Shirley,

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Speaker 2: you know, propaganda video about Smolly Daycaares whatever. And no

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Speaker 2: sooner did they land on the ground than of course

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Speaker 2: they're being met with protest and they ended up one

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Speaker 2: of these agents shooting and killing a woman who was

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Speaker 2: driving a car. I'm going to go ahead and put

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Speaker 2: this video up on the screen. We've got it from

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Speaker 2: different angles. Again, this is disturbing, so just be aware.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to look this way so I can see

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Speaker 2: the bigger TV screen, But in any case, you can

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Speaker 2: see this maroon colored vehicle. This is the vehicle being

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Speaker 2: driven by the woman who is ultimately shot and killed.

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Speaker 2: So she backs up there and then as she moves

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Speaker 2: forward that is when this agent shoots her three times.

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Speaker 4: From this angle.

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Speaker 2: That angle is significant because it's from the front and

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Speaker 2: you can see that initially the officer is bumped a

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Speaker 2: little bit by the vehicle.

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Speaker 4: Is what it looks like in this angle. Now Here

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Speaker 4: you can see it slowed down.

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Speaker 2: You have this one person on the side, agent on

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Speaker 2: the side who has his hand on the vehicle, and

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Speaker 2: then it's the guy in the front who shoots one

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Speaker 2: time and then two three times. It appears the second

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Speaker 2: two shots go in through the driver's side window the vehicle.

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Speaker 4: Then you know, the driver.

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Speaker 2: We don't know if she was instantly deceased or not,

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Speaker 2: but incapacitated. The vehicle then crashes afterwards. There's uh, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just you know, unbelievable horror there. And they're apparently

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Speaker 2: not providing any sort of first aid. The agent who

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Speaker 2: shoots this woman leaves, hops in a vehicle and goes

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Speaker 2: flees the scene. They're providing her no first aid. There's

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Speaker 2: a doctor actually that is on the scene, and one

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Speaker 2: can show you this in a minute. There's a doctor

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Speaker 2: who's there who says, let me go and let me

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Speaker 2: tend to her. I'm a physician, and they refuse care.

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Speaker 2: It takes quite a long time for an ambulance to arrive.

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Speaker 2: We're talking ten or fifteen minutes. The ambulance cannot reach

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Speaker 2: the scene because law enforcement vehicles are blocking the way,

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Speaker 2: and this woman ends up dead. So let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and put a two again, which I think is significant

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Speaker 2: as well because of course, what they're arguing is this

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Speaker 2: was self defense from the agent, and that she the

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Speaker 2: government immediately came out and called her a domestic terrorist

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Speaker 2: and said that she was using her vehicle to try

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Speaker 2: to run over this agent. Well, what you can see

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of that A two B is here

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Speaker 2: she is waving them through, waving through the vehicles of

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Speaker 2: the Ice agents or federal agents, whatever agencies they're from, so,

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Speaker 2: you know, not trying to run them down. I think

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Speaker 2: any reasonable person SoC or can see that she's backing up,

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Speaker 2: she's repositioning her wheels, she's trying to flee. Now you

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Speaker 2: may say that was the wrong action. I will say

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Speaker 2: there's also eyewitnesses who say she was being hit with

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Speaker 2: contradictory direction, you know, stop, get out, go, get out

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Speaker 2: of here, and so you know, we have to factor

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Speaker 2: that into it as well. But regardless of whether or

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Speaker 2: not she did the right thing in that situation, you know,

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Speaker 2: now you have a woman who is dead, three shots fired,

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Speaker 2: deadly force used here, and you know, neither of us

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Speaker 2: are lawyers.

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Speaker 4: I talked to piece Go and then.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've been reading other lawyers online who are

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Speaker 2: oppining on this, and what most of them are saying,

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Speaker 2: is like, look the first shot when he's in front

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Speaker 2: of the car and he gets bumped by the car,

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Speaker 2: that's one thing. Maybe I could get him off for that.

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Speaker 2: Shots number two and three and put a three B

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Speaker 2: up on the screen because this is very relevant. So

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Speaker 2: shots number two and three are when he's in this position.

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Speaker 2: Clearly any sort of danger from the car has passed,

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Speaker 2: he's alongside of the vehicle, and that those two it's

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Speaker 2: just impossible to argue that this was still self defense

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Speaker 2: and you have to justify every single instance of use

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Speaker 2: of deadly force in these instances. This was actually a

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Speaker 2: relevant saga, and this was something that piece go flag

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Speaker 2: for me. In the Derek Chouvin trial, George Floyd was

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Speaker 2: actually killed just a mile from where this woman was killed,

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Speaker 2: and what they said is, okay, well, maybe you could

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Speaker 2: justify the initial hold with the knee on the neck infamously,

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Speaker 2: but once he's dead, how are you still in danger

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Speaker 2: in any way? And that was part of what led

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Speaker 2: to the guilty verdict in that trial. So you know,

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Speaker 2: that's the sort of legal analysis. All of these things

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Speaker 2: are fed through a political lens as well. The FBI

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Speaker 2: is partnering with the local state police to investigate this killing.

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Speaker 2: You know, I have zero confidence in Cash Mattel's FBI

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Speaker 2: in general, but certainly to be a sort of nonpartisan

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Speaker 2: and non political here. We don't yet have any sort

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Speaker 2: of indictment. We don't have the agent who killed this woman.

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Speaker 2: We don't have any sort of identity. We don't even

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Speaker 2: know what agency he's with, and whether he's still on

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Speaker 2: the job, whether he's still in Minneapolis. We don't know

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Speaker 2: any of that. So in any case, you know, that's

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Speaker 2: sort of where things stand. And what would a jury

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Speaker 2: do with it? How would they view it? You know,

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Speaker 2: neither one of us can say, but I can tell

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Speaker 2: you if I'm on that jury, I don't think that

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Speaker 2: there's any way I would view the totality of that

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Speaker 2: as acting in self defense when clearly she is trying

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Speaker 2: to flee, she's trying to exit the scene. She's not

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Speaker 2: trying to kill anyone, she's not trying to hurt anyone,

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Speaker 2: She's trying to get out of there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

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Speaker 3: I do think it's very important that that video, which

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Speaker 3: does show contact being made, I mean, that is ultimately

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Speaker 3: going to play very well to a jury for somebody

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Speaker 3: who's going to reasonably argue that their life is in danger.

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Speaker 3: And I do think it's important. You know, you and

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Speaker 3: I can see wheels turning or some of the initial

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Speaker 3: stuff for intent, but it actually matters more for what

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Speaker 3: the officer reasonably could believe at the time. So, for example,

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Speaker 3: can't see wheels that are being turned from where you

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Speaker 3: and I could perhaps you know, from the side. This

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Speaker 3: is also somebody you know you did say at the beginning.

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Speaker 3: This is also very important if you do listen to

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Speaker 3: the video being told very clearly, you know, to get

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Speaker 3: out of the vehicle, and so disobeying order.

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Speaker 1: Look, this is a.

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Speaker 3: Tragic situation because I don't even want to sound like,

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Speaker 3: you know, a callous or anything. And I'm definitely not

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Speaker 3: one of those people who like, oh, you get what

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Speaker 3: you deserve at the end of the day. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is an American woman on an American street and

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Speaker 3: she's shot and she's killed, and you know, if you

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Speaker 3: were to ask me my personal opinion, it kind of

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Speaker 3: looks like she panicked there a little bit. I do

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Speaker 3: think it is dangerous, you know, ultimately putting people in

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Speaker 3: these types of situations, and so just generally back, you know,

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Speaker 3: to the the legal analysis. You know, I think what's

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Speaker 3: important is the reasonable fear of this person at the time.

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Speaker 3: As you said, Minnesota state law is actually a bit

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Speaker 3: narrower than various other different states whenever it comes to

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Speaker 3: law enforcement and use of deadly force.

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Speaker 1: I will say something that is very different about this.

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Speaker 3: This is not a local PD, so there are some

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Speaker 3: supremacy things that could come into plays. Whether there's even

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Speaker 3: you know, jurisdiction to try a federal law enforcement officer.

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Speaker 3: I know it has been done in the past, but

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Speaker 3: there are several different legal theories that which would say

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Speaker 3: this was different just but can I state homicide? Can

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Speaker 3: I speak to that one for.

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Speaker 2: A second, because I asked pece Go about this and

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Speaker 2: he said, first of all, you know, Minnesota state law

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Speaker 2: is what would control here. Right, he would be charged

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Speaker 2: with some degree of murder in the state of Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: Now there is a law in place that says federal

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Speaker 2: agents can get them moved from state court to federal court.

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Speaker 2: State law would still control though, and very likely, I

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Speaker 2: mean they might try to do change jurisdiction or something,

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Speaker 2: but very likely he would still be tried in Minneapolis

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Speaker 2: at the federal district court there, which side not ife.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, that's in any case.

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Speaker 4: So it would still be state law.

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Speaker 2: It would still be Minnesota law that's governing, but it

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Speaker 2: would be tried at the federal district court level very likely.

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Speaker 3: I also think what I was reading is well, is

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Speaker 3: that you know, again we can zoom, there's slow mo.

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Speaker 3: That's not how reality is. The totality of shots fired

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Speaker 3: in a certain window of time is going to be

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Speaker 3: important for the prosecutors and for the jury if this

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Speaker 3: did end up being charged on multiple shots that are

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Speaker 3: discharged in a short window let's say point four seconds.

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Speaker 3: So what I was reading is very very different six

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Speaker 3: to eight shots, let's say that are fired over a minute,

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Speaker 3: with the idea that the latter shots, you know when

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Speaker 3: you have a reasonable amount of time to be able

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Speaker 3: to justify. So the page to the reality to the

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Speaker 3: timing is all that would be important there for a jury.

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Speaker 3: So disobeying order there is state law, as I understand it,

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Speaker 3: whenever you're refusing an order and then you do flee,

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Speaker 3: then you do immediately become somebody who is fleeing the scene.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to play into it as well.

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Speaker 2: That's not any justification though, and no, no, no, no, no

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Speaker 2: explicitly and I understand, yeah, in the use of force

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Speaker 2: guidelines that are in place that operate for these federal

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Speaker 2: you can't shoot. And in addition, you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: just rationally, like if you shoot someone who's driving at you,

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Speaker 2: the car is not going to stop, right, it's not

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Speaker 2: even like a rational action in self defense. I also

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Speaker 2: wanted to just note and sorry, sorry, I didn't mean

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Speaker 2: to cut you off, Soccer. I did want to know

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Speaker 2: that this is the ninth ice shooting in since September,

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Speaker 2: and in every single instance it's involved people who are

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Speaker 2: in vehicles. And we covered extensively here the case in

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Speaker 2: Chicago with Martinez, who you know, the initial story was

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Speaker 2: very similar. She pulled she had a gun, she pulled

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Speaker 2: a gun, she was threatening us, she was harassing us

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Speaker 2: with her car. Body camera footage comes out and immediately

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Speaker 2: that story started to fall apart. But then once the

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Speaker 2: body camera footage came out, they actually dropped all the

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Speaker 2: charges against her. Meanwhile, they had shot her I think

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Speaker 2: five to seven times. Unfortunately she survived. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is the latest tragic incident. It's not

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Speaker 2: even the first killing of by an ice agent of

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Speaker 2: you know, someone who was in a motor vehatle just

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Speaker 2: in the past several months.

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Speaker 3: Right now, I understand, I totally do. I do think though,

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Speaker 3: that those things need to come into question. You know,

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Speaker 3: they did this was a protester who was blocking you know,

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Speaker 3: federal agents. And also it's not illegal, I guess, but

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Speaker 3: you do also have to keep in mind about disobeying orders.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I would also caution everyone you should

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Speaker 3: remember that almost every you know, kind of left liberal

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Speaker 3: cause celeb has ended up either not charged or not

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Speaker 3: found guilty at trial. You know, if I could just

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Speaker 3: rack off the So that's what I'm saying. You know,

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Speaker 3: judge jury from video often plays very differently whenever it

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Speaker 3: becomes before grand jury and jury.

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Speaker 1: So we have Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric.

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Speaker 3: Gerner, you know, I'm Daniel, Penny, Kyle Rittenhouse. They're multiple

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Speaker 3: Breonna Taylor, you know, multiple incidents which became kind of

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Speaker 3: protests caused celebs. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think

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Speaker 3: of one where there is such a question like there

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Speaker 3: is in this case that didn't actually end up either

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Speaker 3: being not charge and or found not guilty at trial.

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Speaker 3: It's really only in like the George Floyd case or others,

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Speaker 3: we're genuinely just so explicit and indefensible that you do

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Speaker 3: find somebody. There's an extraordinary amount of deference in the

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Speaker 3: United States case and state law that generally goes to

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Speaker 3: police officers. And that's why I think this is a tragic,

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Speaker 3: tragic situation. So yes, we can all sit here and

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Speaker 3: claim otherwise. I do not presume, you know, to be

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Speaker 3: in the minds of a Minneapolis state jury or a

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Speaker 3: federal jury. But I definitely would caution people to understand

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Speaker 3: that with their expectations and consider the history that I

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Speaker 3: just laid out. Something that may be very obvious to

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Speaker 3: you is not usually obvious to a jury. And I

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Speaker 3: do think the fact that contact was made ultimately is

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Speaker 3: going to be very very important, and I think kind

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Speaker 3: of zooming out from that then we need to ask,

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Speaker 3: you know. And I do think there's also just deep

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Speaker 3: amount of criticism that can be levied here at these

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Speaker 3: ice agents. There's been a lot of concern You've laid

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Speaker 3: it out before as well about the forty seven days

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Speaker 3: of training accelerated training. There's potentially some indication that this

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Speaker 3: officer may have violated in internal guidelines, which we'll get

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Speaker 3: to here in a little bit. I do also think, though,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not blaming this woman, you know, for her death,

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Speaker 3: I do think that she certainly did not act correctly.

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Speaker 3: You know, fleeing an officer, a federal agent who's telling

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Speaker 3: you to get out of your car is extremely irresponsible.

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Speaker 3: It's just not something which anyone can empathize and understand

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Speaker 3: why somebody who can panic in that situation. But I

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Speaker 3: also do think we should caution people from you know, look,

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Speaker 3: if you're putting yourself in these types of situations which

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Speaker 3: we've seen over and over again, I think there is

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Speaker 3: an unfortunate kind of permissiveness where a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who think that they're standing up against any cause, you know,

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Speaker 3: that they think is just where ultimately, you know, they're

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Speaker 3: putting themselves in very very dangerous situations where things can

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Speaker 3: go awry.

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Speaker 1: I saw something interesting, OK, go ahead, I.

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Speaker 2: Just you know, I would like the the federal agents

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Speaker 2: are supposed to be the trained professionals, right, They're supposed

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Speaker 2: to be de escalating, they're supposed to be keeping everyone

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Speaker 2: safe like they're supposed.

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Speaker 4: To be trained to do that.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, you know, you have a woman who is thirty

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Speaker 2: seven year olds. Thirty seven years old, her name is

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Speaker 2: Renee Good. She's the mother by the way. Now at

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Speaker 2: least you know, I've seen conflicting reports. She has at

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Speaker 2: least one child. He's now an orphan because his dad

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Speaker 2: is also deceased several years back. In any case, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's such high expectations placed on the civilian protester. We

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Speaker 2: can put a three B up on the screen where

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Speaker 2: eyewitnesses say that she was being given all these conflicting reports.

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Speaker 2: Let me just read this part counts and said one person.

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Speaker 2: The woman who was shot. A short time later drove

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Speaker 2: her vehicle perpendicular the lanes of traffic. By that point,

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Speaker 2: the vehicle stuck in the snow had been freed. Some

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Speaker 2: of them were leaving. They just went around her. ICE

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Speaker 2: gave her orders to leave.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: At the same time another ICE person said get out

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Speaker 2: of the car and reached for her door handle. Then

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Speaker 2: there was a NCE agent in front of her vehicle,

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Speaker 2: so it was difficult for her to leave as she'd

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Speaker 2: been ordered to do. And this is not the first

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Speaker 2: instance where we've seen this where and I think the

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Speaker 2: lack of training comes into play here too, saga where

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Speaker 2: it's like you've got all these guys, they're hyped up.

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Speaker 2: You know, we don't know who they are. We don't

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Speaker 2: know whether they're new on the job or what their

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Speaker 2: training is or whatever. But you know, we know across

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Speaker 2: the country we've got a bunch of thugs who are

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Speaker 2: out on the streets who have little to you know,

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Speaker 2: very little training, and very basic knowledge of what they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to do, not from the area, right, So in

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Speaker 2: neighborhoods that are unfamiliar to them, they're all hyped up.

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Speaker 2: They're all yelling different things, and so she's trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what to do. She's not the professional, right

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Speaker 2: and so even if you say she shouldn't have fleed,

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Speaker 2: she should didn't do the right thing.

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Speaker 4: Here. Look, we can all have those judgments.

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Speaker 2: That is irrelevant to whether or not this man murdered

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Speaker 2: her and could be found guilty.

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Speaker 4: That is, her behavior is in that regard, whether.

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Speaker 2: She was doing the right thing, or the smart thing,

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Speaker 2: or the optimal thing or the ethical thing, even is

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Speaker 2: irrelevant to the question of whether or not his actions

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Speaker 2: were justified. Because, as we were discussing before, a fleeing

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Speaker 2: like the fact that someone is fleeing unless they just

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Speaker 2: themselves committed a murder. There's like a handful of you know,

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Speaker 2: very high level crimes where it could be justified where

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Speaker 2: you think this person could be an imminent danger if

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Speaker 2: they get away, then you know you're in a different territory.

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Speaker 2: There's no indication that this woman has any criminal record

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Speaker 2: at all that we know of at this point. In

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Speaker 2: any case, she doesn't fit, you know, doesn't fit that category.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that she's trying to flee, that is

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Speaker 2: not at all a justification for you deathly not at

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Speaker 2: all a justifation for using deadly force. The thing that

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, the thing that I think is most

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Speaker 2: relevant to your point is the fact that you know

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Speaker 2: he gets bumped by the car that you can see

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Speaker 2: in one of those eggs.

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Speaker 3: Now that you know it is a four thousand pounds vehicle,

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Speaker 3: like you know, we can say that does not that.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't just per se mean that you also are justified

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Speaker 2: in that situation, because it is a comment on you

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Speaker 2: to try to de escalate, try to remove yourself in

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Speaker 2: the situation, and there has to be some other course

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Speaker 2: of action, like he's able to step out of the way,

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, this is and we

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Speaker 2: can get into you can finish your thoughts, and then

397
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Speaker 2: we can get into the government case, because this part

398
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Speaker 2: will one hundred percent agree on. Immediately before the facts

399
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Speaker 2: are even known, the entire federal government starts completely lying,

400
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Speaker 2: fabricating absolute nonsense. And they're also claiming that this agent

401
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Speaker 2: who gets bumped by the car is in the hospital,

402
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Speaker 2: Oh my god, he's lucky, he's alive, and he's recovering.

403
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Speaker 2: We now know from CNN reporting that when this actually

404
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Speaker 2: came directly from the state police officer who arrived on

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Speaker 2: the scene, who asks anyone else injured, and they said no,

406
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Speaker 2: only the woman, meaning that this guy was totally fine.

407
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Speaker 2: Now that doesn't mean that there wasn't contact with the vehicle,

408
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Speaker 2: but this whole story, there's oh my god, he was

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Speaker 2: so lucky, he escaped with his life and he's in

410
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Speaker 2: the hospital recovering, blah blah blah, is also total incomplete bullshit.

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Speaker 3: I'm not denying that the government, you know, put out

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Speaker 3: like a I mean, look, I think that's the worst.

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Speaker 3: That's why I feel that this is a genuine tragedy.

414
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Speaker 3: I think that this is like insane. Both the way

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Speaker 3: that I think especially you know, look, the way that

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Speaker 3: we just immediately mobilize and blame people for their own death.

417
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Speaker 3: And that's why I'm not sitting here. And also even

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Speaker 3: if somebody hears me, hear the word justify, you need

419
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Speaker 3: to understand this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about morals.

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about legal and I'm also talking about in

422
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Speaker 3: the frame of mind of an officer who is in

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Speaker 3: that moment. So yes, you're saying fleeing doesn't matter, but

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Speaker 3: you know, baking contact Ultimately a vehicle has been well

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Speaker 3: established as a deadly weapon in multiple well established case law.

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Speaker 3: I do definitely think of de escalation, and I do

427
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Speaker 3: think that that would have been, you know, a better

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Speaker 3: and a more proper way to handle it. Not had

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Speaker 3: to do it, but in terms of get to do it.

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Speaker 3: That's the word that Darryl Cooper used, and I thought

431
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Speaker 3: that that phrase was interesting and it definitely is one

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Speaker 3: though that still matters ultimately doesn't have any distinguishment legally,

433
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Speaker 3: but does matter in terms of in terms of how

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Speaker 3: we can assess the general situation. But you know, I

435
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,360
Speaker 3: do kind of return as you said, I understand, Look,

436
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 3: you have deep sympathy with this protester. I do get it.

437
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 3: I do think though ultimately, you know, we don't generally

438
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 3: want to normalize me. You and I have argued about this.

439
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 3: Remember in the past videos where people are just straight

440
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: up like trying to grab people away from federal agents

441
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: getting arrested, and as I said literally at the time,

442
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 3: this is a very dangerous situation. Normalizing that type of behavior,

443
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: I think is really dangerous, and unfortunately, I do think

444
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 3: there's a lot of liberal protest you know, permissiveness. You know,

445
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 3: you're saying that he's been bumped by the vehicle. You know,

446
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 3: I was here during BLM with a single cop car

447
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: touched a protester. It was, you know, attempted murder. It

448
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 3: was constant like it was.

449
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: Have you seen the number of ICE vehicles that have

450
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 2: hit people.

451
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 4: In the streets.

452
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a nice video going around, but I'm not

453
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 2: hitting and you know, her falling down and I'm just

454
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: laughing about it.

455
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm not an ICE fanboy. I don't think that

456
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 3: they act appropriately. I have also seen videos of people

457
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 3: also who do definitely either try to ram their cars

458
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 3: or drive okay at ICE agents, which I think is

459
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 3: very relevant to the case.

460
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: So but even in those instances, like we hear that

461
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: from the government and then there's no charges pressed, or

462
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: we hear that from the government and then they file

463
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: charges and then they're thrown out or they back away

464
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 2: from them, like in the case of Miramar Martinez. So

465
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 2: and what I would say again is who should be

466
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 2: held to the higher standard the random civilian very upset

467
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: about what's going on and protesting and listen, if they

468
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: commit crimes, yes, charge them with those crimes.

469
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 4: Let's let's do it.

470
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 2: What is more concerning, though, normalizing like you know that

471
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 2: liberal protest behavior you know that you don't like or

472
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: that I might not like, or normalizing ice being able

473
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: to shoot to kill when they feel even slightly threatened.

474
00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: Like to me, the that normalization is much much deeper

475
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: concern and especially when you do zoom ount and you

476
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: consider again, this is the nice time that ICE has

477
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: fired at people in their vehicles since just since September.

478
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 4: That is an extraordinary high number.

479
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: We've seen all sorts of insane behavior, from the way

480
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 2: that they will point guns of people all the time.

481
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: You know, the number of instances we have at that

482
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 2: is wild, and then we know that there many of

483
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: them are total newbies, are wildly untrained, you know, the

484
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: way they've dropped the standards. And then you set these

485
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: people loose, and you have the government telling them that

486
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: they can do anything, that they can act to total impunity.

487
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: And in some ways that's the part that bothers me

488
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: the most, is like, if we were in a normal time, right,

489
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 2: what would happen here? Is? Number one, the normal protocol

490
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,479
Speaker 2: would be instantly, anytime you discharge your service weapon, you

491
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: are sidelined in your job while an investigation occurs. Right

492
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: in public, officials would wait to say, this person in

493
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: the vehicle is a domestic terrorist.

494
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: That's what they're saying.

495
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: Right before even the videos have come out, they said

496
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: she was a domestic terras say, and then all of

497
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: this stuff, and then you have jd Vance out there tweeting.

498
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: You know, I want to send out a message thing.

499
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 2: I stand with all of you. I mean, the message

500
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: that goes out is that you can literally do anything

501
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: and we will lie on your behalf, we will cover

502
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: for you, we will do everything we can to make

503
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: sure you can.

504
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 4: Get away with it.

505
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: And then, to me is what is much much much

506
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: more concerning than you know, a woman trying to flee,

507
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: to flee, and by the way, I mean, these people

508
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: are also massive. They're not identifying themselves. She doesn't even

509
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: you know, they're not local cops. They like, for what

510
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 2: reason are they trying to detain her? We don't have

511
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 2: any indication she actually violated any lawarorg did anything wrong

512
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: before it to get.

513
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: Her action, I don't know. And that's part of why.

514
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: Look, I would like to live in a normal time too,

515
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 3: And you're talking there about how the immediate reaction.

516
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: I do think it's a selective story.

517
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody's already said that this is a murder

518
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: and then needs to be prosecuted immediately. So yeah, I

519
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: would like to return to immediate times as well.

520
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: But we don't.

521
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: We live in the hyper political and unfortunately law enforcement

522
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: has basically been completely politicized in this way since Trayvon

523
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 3: Martin and normal times at least in my lifetime.

524
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't think it's a good thing.

525
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 3: And that's again, you know why I would really caution

526
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 3: people is every single time that you know, people just say, oh,

527
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 3: this is murder, there's hands, you know, hand, there's no

528
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 3: question or any of this, it usually ends up losing

529
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: a trial and or not getting charged. Now you know,

530
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 3: of course the excuse to come up with that is

531
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: systemic racism. But look, I mean, I don't think that

532
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 3: multiple small jurisdictions all across the country, including in some

533
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: of the biggest and most liberal cities, that end up

534
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 3: letting these people off is part of that. I think

535
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 3: largely Unfortunately, you know, when we come to snap judgments,

536
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: which is not immediately and again I'm not even coming

537
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 3: to one as well. If I need, I would want

538
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: to see body camera footage. I think the relevance of

539
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 3: the moments leading up to whether you could see the

540
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 3: wheels getting turned from the body camera footage of the

541
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: agent who ultimately discharged the weapon, those are the things

542
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: that are most relevant in this individual case. But you know,

543
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 3: I do think that's honestly a bit of selective because

544
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: you did immediately have the Minneapolis mayor and or the

545
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: governor or others, the leader of the Democratic Party people

546
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: saying this is a straight up murder, and it's like, well,

547
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 3: you don't know anything, just like you know, the government

548
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 3: doesn't know anything. And that's my frustration always has been

549
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 3: with these types of cases. And look, I understand this

550
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 3: is unpopular sometimes in the moment to speak like this,

551
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 3: and I don't think anybody out there who is just

552
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 3: immediately saying like you know, and I want to say

553
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: that too, people were like.

554
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: Oh, she deserved it.

555
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's like, we don't talk like that about

556
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: especially people who are in our country. But we can

557
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: talk rationally with you know, some small, limited criticism ultimately

558
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: of somebody who did not act responsibly and who ultimately away.

559
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 3: And so yes, there is a higher standard and there

560
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 3: should be for people who literally get to carry guns

561
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: in US US and kill people justifiably if they want

562
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: to or if they can prove it right. And that's

563
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: generally how US case law does operate. And we can

564
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 3: absolutely argue about those power dynamics and in terms of

565
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: just like more broadly with this case, because I do

566
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: find it just very troubling, like you said, about the

567
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: way that we're just immediately domestic terrorists. You know, we

568
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 3: don't brand fellow citizens immediately domestic terrorists immediately without any

569
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 3: known facts, because in normal times that wouldn't usually happen.

570
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: And I do think it's Look, this is what Trump

571
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: is ultimately, this is what he does, you know, this

572
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: is what honestly has kind of been unleashed within you know,

573
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 3: just jan say everything is just like we've done nothing wrong.

574
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 3: I do, though, I just I frankly just cannot speak

575
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: without acknowledging the totality of like I just said, many

576
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: other democratic politicians who don't know probably less than you

577
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: and I do about this case also immediately are just like, yep,

578
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: this is murder. And so you know, to say that

579
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: it's just explicit politicization or anything just from Trump, it's

580
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: just not accurate. And you know, this is where the

581
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: I think that there is so much moral certitude from

582
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: a lot of the liberal commentariat about what protests are

583
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 3: doing that they have encouraged, frankly, this type of behavior

584
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: where we can just nood right now.

585
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's not because, Okay, the worst you

586
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: can say about this woman is that she was panicked

587
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: and trying to flee, right, I mean, that's very clearly

588
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: what it looks like is going on here, right.

589
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: Well, No, the worst you could say she was trying

590
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: to kill him.

591
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: You know, you cannot reasonably look at that and say that.

592
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: But that is the worst thing that you could see.

593
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 4: That is a fiction though, that would be a lie.

594
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: Like, the thing that is most tethered to reality that

595
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: you could say about her is that she was trying

596
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: to flee, right, okay, right. The worst thing you can

597
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: say about this officer is that he murdered a woman

598
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: and he is backed by the state and the president

599
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: of the United States, Like, which one of those things

600
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: is more concerning an individual civilian woman who fails to

601
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: do exactly what the police want her to do in

602
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: that moment, or state sanctioned murder.

603
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 4: I mean, like, just in terms of.

604
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: Where the upset lies to me, it's no contest, and especially.

605
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: Because I think that's very zoomed in and that kind

606
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: of ignores the last five years.

607
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it is

608
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: zoomed in, but it is reflective of the context we

609
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: live in right now, which is not really about you know,

610
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 2: these individual police shootings, which is you know, also horrible,

611
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: and we can talk about that in separate terms. This

612
00:29:52,360 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: is about the specific surging of these untrained agents, masked up, unaccountable, unidentified,

613
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: operating in rogue, insane ways, you know, tear gassing a baby, right,

614
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: arresting American citizens, racially profiling routinely, you know, firing weapons

615
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: now at this point routinely and then lying about it brazenly,

616
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: even when we have the video, even when we have

617
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: the body camera evidence, like that is the broader picture

618
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: that I'm concerned about. And so look, in any law

619
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: enforcement agency, the best thing you can say is, look,

620
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: there's always going to be a few bad apples. And

621
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: that used to always be the line, right, like, yes,

622
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: this was horrible, but there's a few bad apples. We

623
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: have to look at this, you know, systematically, and the

624
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: fact that this is just immediately justified, the murder of

625
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: the killing of an American citizen is just immediately justified

626
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: by and lied about by and the person who was

627
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: killed also immediately lied about by Christy Naum, by Tricia McLaughlin,

628
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 2: and then by the President of the United States.

629
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: Like that's it's really.

630
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: The most concerning thing here, much higher level concern over

631
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: that versus whether you know, every individual protester is acting

632
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: in exactly the you know, right and appropriate manner.

633
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

634
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 3: Look, I'm not denying the power dynamic. I just I

635
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: do think though that there is a lot of ignoring frankly,

636
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: you know of exactly what I just talked about in

637
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: these types of tactics and behavior which did happen over

638
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: the last I mean, honestly, not even in the last

639
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: five years, over the last ten years, which is a

640
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 3: large reason, in my opinion, how we even got here.

641
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: That doesn't absolve the government of its behavior, but I

642
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: do think it's you know, a little bit selective and

643
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: does ignore that context, and also why the politicization from

644
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: many of the right whenever it comes to law enforcement

645
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: is the way that it is. And you know, look,

646
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 3: I think that you know when all I can do

647
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: is kind of look at this through the lens of

648
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: both like experience in politics and also in terms of yeah,

649
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: I guess all so in terms of how the current

650
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: government has operated. And I'm not even deny I'm in

651
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 3: total agreement that the way that christinom Er, Tricia McLachlin,

652
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: and we've covered these over and over again, like you

653
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 3: can't take any of these people's word to the bank.

654
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: I would notice, how long have you know, I have

655
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: been speaking like twenty minutes and we haven't put the

656
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 3: government's version up here because I don't think it's very trustworthy.

657
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: And I think that the video kind of speaks for itself,

658
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: and ultimately that's all that really will matter at trial.

659
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: Is not what Tricia McLachlin, Kirsty Nome and I don't

660
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: think that you should immediately branding people domestic terrorists. I'm only,

661
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: I guess, trying to represent. I guess I guess what

662
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: I'm trying to represent is a bigger picture of how

663
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 3: we got here because and not just that. But you

664
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: know what I fear the most, and I think you

665
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: do too, is more of these types of incidents. And

666
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: I also think that when you look at the way

667
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: that the governor and the mayor and the president have

668
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: now all reacted, I can't help but see it continuing

669
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: to go down route. I wish we could just kind

670
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: of stand athwart it and yell stop.

671
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: But I don't see. I mean to see your way out.

672
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 4: That's what I mean.

673
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: That is what is really depressing to me is that

674
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 2: you know, you and I have talked before about these

675
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: people who always jump online.

676
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 4: I say, the Wars calming blah blah blah, and I'm like.

677
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: That's fucking ridiculous, Like you watch too many movies, This

678
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: is absurd. But I have to tell you, I mean,

679
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: I look at this whole chain of events, right which

680
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: really starts with Nick Shirley's like slavaganda video, which you know,

681
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: the the Trump administration takes and runs with not in

682
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: any sort of serious Hey let's see, is there fraud?

683
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 4: Like does this actually point to anything real?

684
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: No, it's we're going to do this massive show of force, right,

685
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: So it starts with a fabrication and a piece of propaganda,

686
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: and then you you know, you end up here where

687
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: immediately you have you know, almost the entire rite branding

688
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: this protester domestic terrorists and saying, you know, fuck her,

689
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: she deserved it, and you have you know, the the

690
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: government like like pushing out a totally fabricated version of events.

691
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: And I'm just looking at this and going like, we

692
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: do not live in the same reality, like post the

693
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: post truth environment has truly set it. And I've already

694
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 2: seen like ai videos of this woman and this officer

695
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: that are being spread around, and so you don't have

696
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: a shared understanding of reality you have, and then you

697
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: you don't even have a shared understanding of like what

698
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: the nation even is. You've got the Steven Miller version

699
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: that's some like blooden soil ethno nationalists project where they

700
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: want to deport one hundred million people, which would include

701
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: every non white American American in the country, not to

702
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: mention the undocumented immigrants, of course.

703
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 4: And I don't know.

704
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I do get very it makes me feel

705
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: very dark about how how we continue to make this

706
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: thing work as a nation when we don't have a

707
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: shared understanding of reality and we don't even have like

708
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: a shared grounding and what the nation even actually is.

709
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: I don't disagree per se, but I mean I do think, Look,

710
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 3: we haven't gotten a chance to weigh on the Shirley thing. Look,

711
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: I mean it's pretty obvious, like, you know, Shirley's not

712
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: going to be winning a polit surprise anytime soon. I

713
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: do think, you know, just dismissing it outright as slopaganda

714
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: or whatever, it kind of belies the point as to

715
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: why it went really viral in the first place, and

716
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: the governor ultimately did resign. I mean, at the end

717
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: of the day, it doesn't sorry to not to run

718
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: for Yeah, okay, not running for reelection is pretty seismic

719
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: when you were the sitting vice presidential candidate, not only

720
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: what a year ago, almost definitely.

721
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: That Nick Shirley identified a single instance of the legitimate fraud.

722
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: Well no, because that's not the point.

723
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 4: But I mean that tells you it's propaganda, right.

724
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: Well okay, but but this look again, I don't want

725
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 3: to come across as a Nick Sureley defender, like I'm

726
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: not putting out anything under that guy's over here at

727
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 3: breaking points because we ask for comment and we don't

728
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: show up at daycares and ask to look at children.

729
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: Okay, that is not the point that has.

730
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: Actually in fact, you know, as a parent of a

731
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,479
Speaker 3: young child, I would definitely hope that if my child

732
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: is a daycare that nobody issus being like, yoh, yeah,

733
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 3: here you go, you can go and take.

734
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: A video, all right now.

735
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: I understand though that that's you know, that those journalistic standards,

736
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 3: let's say we're shoddy. I do think it blew up though,

737
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: and also is tethered to reality enough where the governor

738
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: of the Minnesota is not going to seek re election

739
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: and actually is acknowledged inside of the state as a

740
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 3: titanic fraud, and so frankly, like even that framing of

741
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 3: it is kind of ignores like a genuine problem of

742
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: serious fraud in the Somali immigrant community in the state

743
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: of Minneapolis. I understand that that's very inconvenient. But ultimately,

744
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: again like this seems like we're we're not talking in

745
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: a Trump universe where actually almost very nearly won the

746
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: state Minnesota.

747
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: Sager, I'm not denying. I mean, again, what seventy eight

748
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: people were prosecuted under the Biden administration, and this whole

749
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: thing came to the forefront again because of a New

750
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: York Times article.

751
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm not.

752
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: Denying that there's you know, been fraud in the smaller

753
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: community in Minneapolis. My specific claim is that the Nick

754
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: Shirley video was propaganda, and I think that is undeniable.

755
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 2: You can't even assert with confidence that a single instance

756
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: that he identified and claimed was fraud was actually fraud.

757
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: And not to of course, you know, to even credit

758
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: that this administration cares about fraud when they pardon a

759
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: new fraudster every other day and are themselves committing mass

760
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: broad is utterly preposterous. But you know, this gets to

761
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: my point about like I don't know how you I

762
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: just I just feel very dark about how we persist

763
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: as a country When there is not a shared understanding

764
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: of reality, there's not a shared sense of facts. The

765
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: president will just completely invent reality and the vast like

766
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of his base will just accept it,

767
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 2: however he spins it. And then, as I said before,

768
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: when you know, I mean the thing that has to

769
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: glue a nation together, and you, you know, you're much

770
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: more of a nationalist than I am, so I think

771
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: you probably speak to this better than me. But there

772
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: has to be some shared understanding of like what it

773
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: is we're doing here that has crumbled like that does

774
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: not exist anymore. And you know, in any of the

775
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: aspirational stories that we used to tell ourselves about America,

776
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: which were never accurate, but at least had an ideal

777
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: like those are just tossed out the window. Now now

778
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: it's just no, we have all the guns, so we're

779
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: going to come and take your shit. Like I don't know,

780
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: you put all this together, and it seems it seems

781
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: pretty dark. I do want to get to, you know what,

782
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: I do want to get to a couple other aspects

783
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 2: of this, Yeah, just so we can sell the whole story.

784
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, A look, because I understand, Yeah, I understand where

785
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: you're coming from reality, et cetera. Also, we do have

786
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: a reconcilable differences in not not you and I per

787
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 3: se although I guess you say too in terms of politics,

788
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: but what do we have a reconcilable difference?

789
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 4: And I could probably work it out, but.

790
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: America, like we do have a reconcilable differences, Like you

791
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: were talking there, I'm a nationalist. I mean, that's why, like,

792
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: it's not just the fraud thing. I'm like, I think

793
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 3: it's crazy that there are tens of millions of people

794
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 3: here who literally don't speak English.

795
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: Like, I think that's nuts.

796
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: And that's why you know, you, you and much of

797
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: the liberal left at this point views deportation for anybody

798
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: who's not a convicted felon as like a tragedy. And

799
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: I just simply don't I accept, deep I fundamentally accept

800
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: that some level of law enforcement deportation and or English

801
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: language proficiency is deeply necessary to being able to have

802
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: some sort of shared civic understanding. I do not accept,

803
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: you know, for example, that you know, I mean in

804
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: the same way of like few bad apples that we

805
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: could look at with law enforcement, I would look at

806
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: the immigrant fraud in Minneapolis as a systemic, genuine problem,

807
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: which is decades long permissiveness here not only of the

808
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 3: US welfare state, but also of the general project of

809
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 3: assimilation itself being abandoned in my opinion at this point,

810
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: and ultimately we resolved that through elections, and that is

811
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: part of why, you know, I do get upset kind

812
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: of bringing back to the liberal kind of protests is

813
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: in some ways, you know, in the same ways that

814
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: like January sixth was like, it's not anti democratic in

815
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 3: the nature of like because we don't like the outcome.

816
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: There does seem to be a general sense of even

817
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: though we lost an election, and even in the state

818
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: of Minneapolis, we haven't played the clip yet. You know,

819
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 3: you have the mayor of the city being like, get

820
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: the fuck out of Minneapolis. I mean, I just look

821
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: at that. Maybe it plays well. I'm not a Minneapolis resident.

822
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: You guys can elect all of that whoever you want.

823
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: But it's like, this is like a neo Confederate idea

824
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: that cities. I mean, I saw zoron Mamdani yesterday. I'd

825
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: be like, we're proud as a sanctuary city. We will

826
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 3: continue to enforce it. Like again, to me, I think

827
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: that's insane, Like we have a supremacy here of the

828
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: United States Constitution.

829
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: Federal law is the law of the land.

830
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 3: You don't just simply get to legalize whoever you want

831
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: and or decide whether federal law enforcement is able to

832
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 3: be present, you know, in your community. That's like, I mean,

833
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: then secede and become Singapore in a city state, Like,

834
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 3: That's not how it works. And so that's just one

835
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: of those kind of things where these differences aside, like

836
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 3: they do have to be answered. Like I think that

837
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 3: immigration has always been, probably for the last decade, this

838
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: singular kind of cleavage of our time. How to resolve that?

839
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 3: And then you know, look, I think all of your criticism,

840
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: I largely agree with most of your criticisms, for example,

841
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 3: of Ice. But I think that the difference and also

842
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 3: why a lot of people are willing to give a

843
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 3: pretty extraordinary amount of deference, is because they want the question,

844
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: as the question as it's posed now for over a decade,

845
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: to be at the very least either solved and or

846
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: dealt with in a way that hasn't simply happened before.

847
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: I am watching, you know, abolish ICE basically take over

848
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 3: much of the liberal movement. I mean, I guess I

849
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: get it, you know, from everybody's perspective, because you don't

850
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: really believe in enforcement in the first.

851
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: I mean, but I don't think that's I don't think

852
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 2: that's true that they we don't believe in any enforcement.

853
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: I can speak for myself, I can't speak for everybody

854
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: who would support abolishing ICE. I think they look at

855
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: this agency and you know, I mean, you're the first

856
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: to talk about like order and not chaos. And there

857
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: is no more chaotic element, no more sort of violent

858
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: and rogue element in American society. These are like armed

859
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: state thugs operating like gangsters in city streets. So I

860
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: think it's entirely legitimate for mayor free to be like,

861
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: get the fuck out, because you know, I.

862
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 4: Mean, they are they are creating.

863
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: They are creating crime and violence in American communities.

864
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: Well chaos.

865
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: I don't think there's millions of people present illegally in

866
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: the country.

867
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: I don't think there's any difference. I mean, but soccer,

868
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 4: you know.

869
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: And the other piece that you said that really bothers

870
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: me is you're like, well, we won the elect So

871
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: what that just means people can't say, like, Okay, we

872
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: we oppose support kiss.

873
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: You can't go in, you can't go out and protest.

874
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's an incredibly anti democratic view.

875
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: Basically like, we.

876
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: Won, so you have to shut up and take it,

877
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: even when we're talking about mass thugs shooting people on

878
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: American streets, and I'm gonna be more upset about the

879
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: protester who didn't do exactly the right thing than an

880
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: American citizen being killed by somebody. We are funding, taxpayer funded, unidentified,

881
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: masked up thug. We still don't even know who this

882
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 2: person is or what agency they're even with, So that

883
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: to me is a wildly undemocratic view, and it's also

884
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: not reflective of how people feel about these operations. This

885
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: is not popular what Trump is doing. Support for immigration

886
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: has never been higher. Literally, if you look at you know,

887
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 2: the gallop charts of like believing immigration is more of

888
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: a benefit than a harm, those numbers are all of

889
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 2: the charts. Trump has plummeted on his handling of immigration.

890
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 2: People like what he's done at the border. They do

891
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 2: not like this stuff because chee your point about you know,

892
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: you normally focus a lot on like order and not chaos,

893
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 2: Like this is creating chaos and people can see it.

894
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: It's creating lawlessness, it's stoking conflict, and yes, I do

895
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: put more of a burden on the state to de

896
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: escalate and be professional and be responsible because these are

897
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: the people that are supposed to be professionals we're paying

898
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: with our taxpayer dollars. Then I do with you know,

899
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: random protesters who, by the way, are being you know,

900
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: tear gassed and assaulted by ICE and CBP and these

901
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: other agencies on a routine basis. So I think a

902
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: lot of you know myself, I can certainly speak it

903
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 2: for myself, and I think there are a lot.

904
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 4: Of people who feel this way too.

905
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: Is like, Okay, if we're going to call for accountability

906
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: for criminals in general, like, where's the accountability for these

907
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: rogue agents who just feel are given out salute impunity

908
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: to do anything. I mean, you talk about okay, he

909
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: got you know, he got hit with the car as

910
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: she's pulling away. The number of people have been hit

911
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: by ICE agents either themselves, their physical body or their vehicles.

912
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 4: Are they all justified in going and shooting ICE? I don't.

913
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 4: I don't know that.

914
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: I'm not okay with that. I don't think you'd be

915
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: okay with that as well. But you know that's that's

916
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: the other context is like this sense that they can

917
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: just do literally anything with no accountability, no impunity. I

918
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: think it's incredibly important that Listen, I don't know what

919
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: a jury will do in a trial or whatever. He

920
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: should have his day in court. He should be indicted here,

921
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: we should have it out. He should be able to offer,

922
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: you know, his version of the story and you know,

923
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: argue this with self defense, and prosecutor should be able

924
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: to argue on the other side on behalf of renee

925
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: good uh, and jury can assess it. We should let

926
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: this play out through the justice system, because to allow

927
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: this to happen and not even go through that process,

928
00:45:59,640 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: to me.

929
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 4: Would be it would be horrifying.

930
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: It would be Well, the first step is an investigation

931
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: and a grand jury, which again I'll remind everybody again

932
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: in the vast majority of these liberal caused celebs never

933
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: even make it past grand jury, which I do think

934
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 3: is important to underscore to a lot of people. Yeah,

935
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: and I just want to clarify, like, I didn't say

936
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: people can't protest. I've never said that. I think they can.

937
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: I do think and I think you would even acknowledge

938
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 3: that there is a general like liberal position of they

939
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: can do whatever they want if the longer they're protesting

940
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 3: the right thing, blocking traffic, taking over cities, burning down,

941
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: you know, causing the most property damage. Let's say, in

942
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: you modern American history, all of this is waved away, rioting, looting,

943
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: twenty six people murdered, not that got any justice, let's say,

944
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 3: and or an explosion in the murder and violent crime

945
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 3: across the entire nation. Like these were also the reality

946
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: that many of us kind of lived through over the

947
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: last five six years, which you know ignores I think

948
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 3: you know you're yes, you're talking about.

949
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: Chaos that was also deeply chaotic.

950
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: Apologize we had to feel the present moment.

951
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I think that I think

952
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 2: people will commit crimes in the context of a protest.

953
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: I think they should be prosecuted, right, I think that

954
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: should happen.

955
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,959
Speaker 1: That was not a popular position during twenty twenty.

956
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 2: I have zero problems saying that, let's deal with the

957
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 2: present moment. Who is creating the crime, who is creating

958
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: the chaos, Who is committing more crimes?

959
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 4: Right?

960
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: The protesters which have been overwhelmed, I mean I can't

961
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: say it has any Have any of them been violent?

962
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: I mean I haven't seen any that we don't have

963
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: any why haven't then been prosecuted. You don't think this

964
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: administration would be happy to prosecute any instance that they

965
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: could possibly point to. They've been overwhelmingly non violent, and

966
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: so in the present moment, like who is who are

967
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: the ones that are causing the problems.

968
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 4: In American cities?

969
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: Right?

970
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: It's it's not the people who are concerned about it. Overwhelmingly,

971
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: it is these rogue agents operating with impunity coming from

972
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 2: the very top. Which is why again, I think it

973
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: is so important that there is an investigation and an

974
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: indictment here and the justice prosecute play out, and there's

975
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: no guarantees for how that's going to go. There's no

976
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: doubt about it. Police get away with a hell of

977
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: a lot in this country. You're absolutely right about that.

978
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: I do think though, that you know, in terms of

979
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 2: the jury mentality, I think there is a lot less

980
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: sympathy for ICE agents in American communities than there are

981
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 2: local police officers. I think it's a very different mental

982
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: landscape for Americans when they are considering this case.

983
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 4: And you know, when you.

984
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: Talk about a jury of your peers like that, ultimately

985
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: does will will matter?

986
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 4: Potentially?

987
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean if it even gets again.

988
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 3: That presumes it goes past the grand jury, which I'm

989
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 3: not so sure actually, especially if this goes federal and

990
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: it's something or they're successfully able to argue that it's federal.

991
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that this case ever actually makes it

992
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 3: to trial. Yeah, I mean, look, we've talked this quite

993
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 3: a bit through. I don't think there's much else to say.

994
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 3: Do you have anything else that you want to get

995
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 3: to move to Venezuela.

996
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 4: There are a few things.

997
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I just want to put her,

998
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: you know, this image up on the screen, A four

999
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 2: of Renee Good. Her mother says, she's an amazing human being.

1000
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: She was living in Minneapolis with her partner, just blocks

1001
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: from where she was shot. She was mother, you know,

1002
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: had a young child who's now without without parents. I

1003
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: wanted to I think this part is important if we

1004
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: could play a five, because one thing is okay, the

1005
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: initial killing, and then after that there is no there

1006
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 2: is no first aid that supplied that we can see

1007
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: at least, and there's a physician who is there who

1008
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 2: said let me go help her, and they block him

1009
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: and point their weapons at him.

1010
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 4: This is a five. Let's go ahead and take a

1011
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: look at that. Check up.

1012
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 3: No check up.

1013
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 4: Now I'm a position.

1014
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: We got in a mess coming and I get it.

1015
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 4: Just give us a second time.

1016
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: We have medics on the scene. We have our own medics.

1017
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: Where are they?

1018
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 4: Why are they?

1019
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: So he says, I'm a physician. They say, we don't care,

1020
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: and they're saying, oh, we have our own medics on

1021
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 2: the scene. There's no evidence of that. There's no evidence

1022
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: that there was any first day that aid given to

1023
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 2: this woman. Now, who knows if it would have made

1024
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: a difference. You know, I think the wounds were quite grave,

1025
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: But you would think that if these are law enforcement officers,

1026
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: you know, their first one of their first responsibilities is

1027
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: supposed to be to protect human life, and there appears

1028
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: to have been no effort given in that regard. In addition,

1029
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: we could put a six up on the screen.

1030
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: Uh.

1031
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 2: The once an ambulance did arrive, and this was, you know,

1032
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 2: after a decent amount of time, it says a doctor

1033
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: of the scene at him to help the wound who

1034
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 2: shot was kept away by federal agents. When an ambulance

1035
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: finally arrived, it was blocked from reaching her by law

1036
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 2: enforcement vehicles and paramedics had to reach her on foot.

1037
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: Another uh, their eyewitness said that she they didn't even

1038
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: use a structure. They carried her out by her arms

1039
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 2: and legs like a sack of potatoes. So, I mean,

1040
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: you tell me what conclusion you can come to when

1041
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 2: no first data is administered, a doctor is blocked from

1042
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: treating her, ambulance arrives, you know, kind of apparently took

1043
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen minutes, and then law enforcement vehicles are

1044
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: blocking the way, so the ambulance cannot even reach her.

1045
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 2: Like the level of care for this woman's life is

1046
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: utterly non existent, which you know, I don't think. I

1047
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: don't know if it's a criminal offense in some states

1048
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: it would be. I don't know if Minnesota has a

1049
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: good Samaritan law or not. But it's certainly, you know,

1050
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: it's certainly morally bankrupt.

1051
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 4: Certainly.

1052
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't know exactly. Obviously we don't know this,

1053
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: you know, exactly. Actually think that's exactly the type of

1054
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 3: thing they should go to investigation and or And this

1055
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 3: is why I wish I had more faith also in

1056
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: some sort of like proper action after action review, because

1057
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 3: I do think this is an overall tragic situation.

1058
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: Like if I were like, again.

1059
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: In normal times, what happens, you know, nobody immediately says

1060
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: it's murder, and nobody immediately says it's domestic terrorist and

1061
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 3: said we're going to do a full investigation. And then

1062
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: in the meantime, whoever the agency is is an immediately

1063
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: absolved of behavior and is usually like, okay, guys, let's

1064
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: say this was a legal good shoot. We still probably

1065
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: shouldn't have gotten to this anyways. What are all the

1066
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: things that we're going to do to make sure that

1067
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: none of this happens again? And this is why, you know,

1068
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 3: that's what kind of launched our whole diet dribe. I'm like, yeah,

1069
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: I don't see a way out of this, because that's

1070
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 3: unfortunately where I genuinely do think, like considering the way

1071
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 3: that all of the reaction has now come passed, like

1072
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: this obviously would be fit as in probably any local PD.

1073
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: I'm assuming if you kill somebody, there's usually not only

1074
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 3: after action report, there's usually like a best practices and

1075
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 3: or interest training to be able to hammer into people.

1076
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 3: That's usually That's kind of what I guess the moderate

1077
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 3: my position was after George Floyd, I'm like, Wow, what

1078
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 3: a horrific tragedy and murder of this person. We should

1079
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: probably make it so that all of these people are

1080
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 3: trained in such a way that none of this happens. Again,

1081
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 3: it got ultimately distorted, politicized, and ultimately that's kind of how.

1082
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 1: We are where we are today, unfortunately.

1083
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: And like, that's that's where I see things heading currently

1084
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 3: in this direction. And yeah, I mean that's why I like,

1085
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 3: I'm not you know, again, I'm not going to deny.

1086
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: And I do think that much of the chaos element

1087
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 3: has come from a lack of training. And in this

1088
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 3: particular case, again we don't know the exact officer or

1089
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 3: any of that.

1090
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: And and or.

1091
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: Culture is also one that people often focus on. Let's say,

1092
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: in the military, after a horrific accident, You're like, okay, well,

1093
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 3: what was the command and control of culture? You know,

1094
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: that would lead to something like that? Even if our

1095
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 3: troops fired justly and they were put in a bad situation,

1096
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 3: how did that situation kind of come about? I wish

1097
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 3: that I had confidence to something like that would take place.

1098
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I don't.

1099
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think they're interested in that because

1100
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 2: part of the goal is to scare people, right, I mean,

1101
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: that's part of the goal of the Stephen Miller immigration

1102
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: approach is to scare people and terrorize them in a

1103
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 2: certain sense, so that you know, immigrants quote unquote self

1104
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: deport and so that you know, people like stay in

1105
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: their lanes and don't come out in protest and are afraid.

1106
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: So you know, this is like it's fair to say

1107
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: it's training, and I.

1108
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 4: Think that's true.

1109
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: But I think it's also true when you talk about

1110
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 2: like the command culture and what's coming from the top,

1111
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: Like I don't think we need to invt like I

1112
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: think we know, like we see that, you know, we

1113
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: see directly that this is how they want these officers

1114
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 2: to be. I mean, they immediately justify any of it, right,

1115
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: and we'll make up lies. I want to play Christy

1116
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: Noum just to show you how what she says doesn't

1117
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: even approach reality based on the videos that we can

1118
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 2: all watch with our own eyes.

1119
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 4: This is a eight. Let's listen to that.

1120
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 5: You asked about a shooting that we just had in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

1121
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 5: It was an active domestic terrorism. What happened was our

1122
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 5: ice officers were out in an enforcement action. They got

1123
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 5: stuck in the snow because of the adverse weather that

1124
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 5: is in Minneapolis. They were attempting to push out their

1125
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 5: vehicle and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them

1126
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 5: and attempted to run them over and ram them with

1127
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 5: her vehicle. An officer of ours acted quickly and defensively

1128
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 5: shot to protect himself and the people around him. And

1129
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 5: my understanding is is that she was hit and is

1130
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 5: deceased or continue to gather more information, but this goes

1131
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 5: to show the assaults that our ice officers and our

1132
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 5: law enforcement are under every single day. These vehicle rammings

1133
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 5: are domestic acts of terrorism. We're working with a Department

1134
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 5: of Justice to prosecute them. As such, we will continue

1135
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 5: to protect our ice officers and in cooperation with other

1136
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 5: law enforcement agencies as well. You've seen me in the

1137
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 5: last couple of days deploy over two thousand more officers

1138
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 5: to the Minneapolis area.

1139
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: So the picture she paints there is of oh, these

1140
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: ice age and we're innocently trying to push their cars

1141
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 2: out of the snow, and this maniact domestic terrorist, tries

1142
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: to run them down with her vehicle. Fortunately, one of

1143
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: them was quick on the draw and was able to

1144
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 2: neutralize the threat. Like this is not remotely, not remotely

1145
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: what happened, Like it's not even close to what happened.

1146
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that's so crazy me is like

1147
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: we can all watch it, we all know that this

1148
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 2: is a blatant, total fabrication. Tricia McLaughlin put a nine

1149
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: up on the screen. I mean hers was, you know, similar,

1150
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 2: not much, not much closer to the reality, she says. Today,

1151
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: ice officers in Minneapolis were conducting targeted operations when rioters

1152
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: began blocking ice officers and one of these violent rioters

1153
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: weaponized for vehicle attempt me to run over our law

1154
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 2: enforcement officers and attempt to kill them, an act of

1155
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: domestic terrorism. An ice officer, fearing for his life, the

1156
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: lives of his fellow law enforcement and the safety of

1157
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 2: the public, fired defensive shots. He used his training and

1158
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: saved his own life in that of his fellow officers. Okay,

1159
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: there is no indication that there was any riot, like

1160
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: the idea that it's to me a stretch to say

1161
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: that the one officer was in danger, but to indicate

1162
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: that anybody else was in danger, there is zero evidence

1163
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: of that. And then of course immediately lamely as a

1164
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 2: woman who any reasonable person look at this video would

1165
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 2: say she was just trying to get away, right, She

1166
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: was not trying to kill anyone. She was literally just

1167
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: trying to exit the scene. And so then to label

1168
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 2: her a domestic terrorist and say, oh, she's part of

1169
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: these rioters, blah blah blah. I mean, again, it's just

1170
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: a fabrication. It does not bear any resemblance to you know,

1171
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: video evidence that has emerged at this point.

1172
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the snow one is particularly egregious. Again,

1173
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: I think we waited a long time to play the

1174
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 3: government's narrative because I didn't think it was all that

1175
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 3: material here, and I do you know, that's part of

1176
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: the issue.

1177
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: They're not exactly trustworthy.

1178
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 3: You talked about Chicago and in multiple other instances where

1179
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 3: they failed in court. I learned that one the hard

1180
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 3: way on Sea Cot whenever they said that every single

1181
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 3: person had been a verified gang member, but you know,

1182
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 3: comes out that half literally aren't and or you know,

1183
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 3: there's no particular evidence. So this is partially why I

1184
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 3: do not very optimistic about this situation, in particular because

1185
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 3: the level of information that came out here from the

1186
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: federal authorities, does it I mean, just look it almost

1187
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: it always didn't mean something.

1188
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not.

1189
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 3: Going to sit here and see the government always lies

1190
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 3: to you or obviously that that always that generally was

1191
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 3: the case, like you should always be very, very skeptical.

1192
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 3: But the snow one in particular makes it so they're like,

1193
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: how how can we really take it seriously when you

1194
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 3: say this. That's why the video evidence and the testimony

1195
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 3: and the body camera footage is ultimately what I think

1196
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 3: matters the most.

1197
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: I'd be remiss if we didn't put up the president

1198
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: of the United States. He said, I've just viewed the

1199
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: clip of the event, which took place in Minneapolis. It's

1200
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 2: a horrible thing to watch. The woman's screaming was obviously

1201
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: a professional agitator, and the woman driving the car was

1202
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, wilfully and

1203
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: viciously ran over The ice officer ran over, Okay, ran over,

1204
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 2: who seems to have shot her in self defense. Based

1205
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 2: on the attached clib, it's hard to believe he's alive

1206
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 2: but is now recovering in the hospital. Situation is being

1207
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 2: studied in its entirety. Blah blah blah. Lucky he's alive,

1208
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: Sager recovering in the hospital, and the Minnesota State Police

1209
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: chief said when he arrived at the scene, he asked them,

1210
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 2: is anyone He asked the agent's federal agents that were

1211
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 2: on the scene, is anyone else injured? And they said no,

1212
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 2: just the woman. But now the President of the United

1213
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: States says that, oh my god, he got run over

1214
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: and is in the hospital recovering, and thank god he's

1215
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: gonna make it. But he's so lucky escape with his life.

1216
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: I mean, again, just making stuff up, totally making stuff up.

1217
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: They apparently he apparently did go to hospital got checked out.

1218
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't doubt that he went to the hospital,

1219
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: because he needs to go to the hospital for his case,

1220
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 2: so he can you know, I mean, that will be

1221
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: something that he taught. Oh I went to the hospital

1222
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 2: and I had to get evaluated. He there's a video

1223
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: of him walking perfectly fine off the scene. And again

1224
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,919
Speaker 2: his colleagues said, no, everybody's fine. I mean, he wasn't

1225
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: taken out and he walked off the scene. I don't

1226
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: doubt he went to a hospital. I'm sure he did

1227
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: because his lawyer probably was like, you need to get your.

1228
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 4: Ass of the er right now.

1229
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: But the idea that he was run over and it's

1230
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: hard to believe he's alive now recovering in the hospital.

1231
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: I mean, none of that is that's not real, that's

1232
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: not right.

1233
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: I didn't say it was credible.

1234
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I agree unfortunately, and I mean,

1235
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,959
Speaker 3: you know not at the risk of reiterating myself again,

1236
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 3: this is the difficulty. But I mean, look, we can

1237
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: end on this, like, do you not think that every

1238
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 3: single Democratic politician immediately calling this murder and for prosecution

1239
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: doesn't rise in some way to not the same level

1240
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 3: because they're not in power.

1241
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 4: No, but no, it's kind of important their version.

1242
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:58,439
Speaker 1: But they don't know anything either.

1243
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: I actually haven't seen I haven't seen anyone say it

1244
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 2: was murder. But I don't doubt that there were Democratic

1245
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: popsicians that said it was murder. I think if you

1246
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 2: look at the video, I think that's a reasonable conclusion

1247
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: to come to.

1248
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 4: I do not think.

1249
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 2: I don't think it's okay. I don't know it for

1250
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: sure what a jury will find, because I can't know

1251
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: the future. I think any individual person couldn't look at

1252
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 2: that video and say, yeah, I think that's murder. I

1253
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: think that's an absolutely reasonable conclusion to come to. I

1254
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: do not think it's a reasonable conclusion to come to

1255
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: that she was rioting and they were trying to push

1256
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 2: their vehicles down of the snow and she tried to

1257
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: run them over, Like that's just invented.

1258
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 4: A reasonable is that she was murdered.

1259
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 3: I think I think you know, look, if you acknowledge

1260
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: that somebody got hit by a car, that you could

1261
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 3: say that somebody could reasonably think they're about to get

1262
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 3: run over.

1263
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: That's different than say, what they said was that she

1264
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 2: was trying to run over multiple law enforcement agents. Sure

1265
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: is no, that's not that does not bear relationship to reality.

1266
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: The you know something that is of course disputed that

1267
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 2: in your view, this was murder and it was not

1268
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: reasonable self defense. That is in connection with reality. So yes,

1269
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: I think those two things are completely different.

1270
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not so sure because that kind of belies

1271
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 3: the entire idea of self defense. I mean, look again,

1272
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 3: you know, to reiterate, like everything that usually becomes so

1273
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 3: clear to the liberal eye does not usually work out

1274
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 3: in a court of law.

1275
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 4: And that's part of why here's but here's here's the difference.

1276
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 3: Though.

1277
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: Okay, what I'm asserting, is that what I think it's murder,

1278
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: And I think you would I think you would agree

1279
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: that if you look at that video, that is a conclusion.

1280
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: You may not agree with that conclusion, but that is

1281
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 2: a conclusion you can come to based on the facts

1282
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: that are portrayed in that video and that we know.

1283
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 4: Well, it's not a reasonable consion.

1284
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 3: I think it just completely ignores any self defense argument.

1285
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: And it's like to me, you're not listening. You're not

1286
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: listening to what I'm saying. I don't think it's It's

1287
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 3: definitely not open and shut. That much is absolutely the case.

1288
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: I just think vehicle.

1289
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: Can you say that it is not a fabrication of

1290
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 2: reality and an invention to look at that video and

1291
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 2: say he murdered this woman?

1292
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: He is intentionally well, because that's what that's what murders.

1293
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,439
Speaker 2: He does not have no, he didn't know, He did

1294
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 2: not have a reasonable self defense justification. Do you think

1295
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: that it is like a fabrication of reality.

1296
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: To look at that and.

1297
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 2: Say that, I mean, I can't reasonable person can come

1298
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: to that conclusion.

1299
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 4: A reasonable person cannot person.

1300
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: They were pushing their cars out of the snow and

1301
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 2: like amazing act she came in and was trying to

1302
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: run them all over.

1303
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 4: Okay, those are two very different things.

1304
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: Taking one side of a contested question is very different

1305
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 2: from inventing some bullshit that is utter and complete nonsense.

1306
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 4: Those are different things.

1307
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 1: Well, yes, they certainly are.

1308
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 3: I guess then it comes down to responsibility and or

1309
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: if you know, if you immediately want to layout an

1310
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 3: expectation of conviction. And I mean, this gets my moral

1311
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 3: certitude point, which is frankly, the thing that bothers me

1312
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 3: the most about the left is like, when we do it,

1313
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 3: it's fine because we're always in the you know, in

1314
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: the right, and it kind of ignores that there are violent,

1315
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 3: genuine like violent disagreements by in some cases the rest

1316
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 3: of the population, or at least half of the population.

1317
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: Over these things.

1318
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 3: And that's where you know, the legitimacy and the entire

1319
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 3: idea about the question of immigration kind of comes into this.

1320
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 3: So that's why I'm bringing it back to, like, was

1321
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 3: it really responsible to immediately just say like, oh, yeah,

1322
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 3: it's absolutely murder Like no, if I'm a public official,

1323
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 3: I don't think you're a youtubeundent just like me.

1324
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: Right, we could say whatever we want.

1325
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 3: We don't have no power, but for if like people

1326
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 3: who are also in power, to immediately come to that

1327
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 3: conclusion and also set some expectation where if this officer

1328
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 3: is not indicted, which I think a very good shot

1329
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 3: of either in state and or in federal, especially federal

1330
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 3: and even in state, I would give it at least

1331
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 3: a fifty to fifty chance of no indictment, let alone

1332
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 3: going to trial. I think that that is irresponsible. Yeah,

1333
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 3: because you're setting an expectation, just like in all the

1334
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 3: other cases that I mentioned, where people have absolute certitude

1335
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 3: that something happened and they were totally wrong and totally

1336
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 3: disagreed with.

1337
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 2: It, that expectation should absolutely be set and people should

1338
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: be deeply upset well, because people should. People should expect

1339
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 2: accountability from their paid taxpayer, paid agents of the state,

1340
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 2: should be held to some kind of standard. And we

1341
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 2: have not seen that happen a single time, not a

1342
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 2: single time have any of these ice thugs been held

1343
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: to any standard. So it is absolutely correct and appropriate

1344
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 2: to set an expectation that there should be accountability. And

1345
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 2: look again, can we say what will happen? No, should

1346
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 2: he be indicted? Should it go through the process so

1347
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 2: that this debate can play out and a jury of

1348
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 2: his decide one hundred percent, and so I think it

1349
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 2: is not only appropriate, I think it is the responsible

1350
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 2: thing to do to set that expectation that he should

1351
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 2: be indicted, that there should be an open and transparent process,

1352
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 2: and that it should go through the justice system, so

1353
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: that we can have confidence that there is some level

1354
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 2: of even theoretical accountability with these guys instead of what

1355
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 2: you get from the trial. Like I genuinely believe Zager

1356
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: that if this man had pulled this woman out and

1357
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 2: executed her on the street, that Trump and Tricia McLaughlin

1358
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: and Christinoum and Jadie Vance would all justify it and

1359
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 2: say we stand with them, and this was a domestic

1360
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 2: terrorist and she deserved it. I won one hundred percent

1361
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 2: believe that. And so if I think it is the baseless,

1362
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: the lowest expectation we could possibly have is that there

1363
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 2: is some sort of a pros that plays out where

1364
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 2: you know, it can go through the justice system and

1365
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 2: he can have his day in court, and he can

1366
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 2: have his representation and he can make his case and

1367
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: a jury of his peers can decide.

1368
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: Well. I don't agree with that actually at all.

1369
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 3: The idea that you're going to just execute somebody literally

1370
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 3: on video and it would be a certain percentage of

1371
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 3: people maybe, do I think the leaders would? And well, no,

1372
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 3: I think that the reason that people are I mean,

1373
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 3: you can acknowledge there is an actual question here of

1374
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 3: self defense. That's part of the reason why that this

1375
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 3: is a debate. Literally at all, nobody argued about George Floyd,

1376
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 3: or at least at the time they certainly didn't know

1377
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 3: they until his toxicology report came out, which again a

1378
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 3: legitimate question to be able to argue at trial.

1379
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: But that's not the same thing.

1380
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 3: So no, I think that that's completely inaccurate, honestly, and

1381
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 3: it really belies which I mean, I'm going to bring

1382
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 3: it back to the certitude like it's not a It

1383
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 3: is not a decided question really either way.

1384
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 4: I think some people should go to trial.

1385
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: Well, okay, you're a trial.

1386
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 3: I think it should potentially be indicted, or I think

1387
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 3: it should potentially go to a grand jury. A grand

1388
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 3: jury could decide to send it to indictment whatsoever. But

1389
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 3: I'm saying, if you set an expectation from the beginning

1390
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 3: that non indictment itself is going to be a travesty

1391
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 3: of justice. I think that that is kind of setting

1392
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 3: things up for rioting, just like what happened with Breonna Taylor,

1393
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 3: where it became a one hundred percent no questions asked,

1394
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 3: had to go and then it didn't happen, and of

1395
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 3: course people did riot violently, and then same thing in

1396
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 3: multiple of these other cases where so yeah, I think

1397
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 3: setting that expectation is bad considering of the entire history

1398
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: that I just laid out, where people just make up

1399
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 3: their minds immediately afterwards, set an expectation, and then when

1400
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 3: people riot violently, then it's excused because justice wasn't served,

1401
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 3: even though it went through a proper justice system.

1402
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 2: So would you say, okay, when you have lots of

1403
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,560
Speaker 2: politicians on the right saying that you know, these protesters

1404
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 2: are domestic terrorists, would you say that then that is

1405
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 2: creating the conditions. Yes, it's bad, you know, for them

1406
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 2: to be killed, for them to be assaulted.

1407
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, exactly why I don't think it's good right.

1408
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 2: The reason I'm saying this is because in the past,

1409
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 2: when you've had, for example, you know, shooters who kill

1410
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 2: people in cite like some you know, right wing influence

1411
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 2: or whatever, we say, this person is responsible for their

1412
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 2: own actions. But in this case you seem to be

1413
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 2: applying a different standard, which is that if you have

1414
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 2: a commission here and say.

1415
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 3: That talking about what's going to be a reaction, Okay, yes, question,

1416
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:30,839
Speaker 3: do you think that there's going to be riots?

1417
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: If she doesn't, if this guy doesn't have no.

1418
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: Idea, there aren't riots yet, there's peaceful protests.

1419
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: Well, it's twenty degrees cold.

1420
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 4: And peaceful protests. That's what I see.

1421
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: But wouldn't you say that it's you know, if if

1422
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 2: individual people can commit lawless acts like that's on them.

1423
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 2: It's not because Rocanna said that you know this was

1424
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 2: a murder, because I.

1425
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 4: Have a murder or whatever.

1426
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: Yes, people have absolute have absolute responsibility for their individual actions,

1427
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 3: and a culture that is set is not the same

1428
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,639
Speaker 3: legal standard. Whatsoever. I would never claim that. I don't

1429
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 3: claim that left or right. If it's a violent leftist

1430
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 3: murders somebody as a psycho, okay, and that's absolutely on him,

1431
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 3: you can, I think justifiably. I think we always do

1432
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 3: is to try to look at broader context in which

1433
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 3: permissive behavior and or a culture leads to something kind

1434
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 3: of what I was talking about, earlier. So yeah, I

1435
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 3: mean that's why the domestic terrorism thing. Look, people should

1436
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 3: be afraid. Okay, it's not like I'm not going to

1437
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,799
Speaker 3: sit here and say that it's good. Branding people immediately

1438
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 3: is domestic terrorists. It's like, well, what does that mean?

1439
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 3: Because domestic terrorists belies the exact type of actions which

1440
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 3: I have opposed, for example, let's say, like with the

1441
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 3: National Guard and or overt militarization. I think that law

1442
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 3: enforcement at its best should always be handled more on

1443
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:47,799
Speaker 3: an individual basis.

1444
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: There are genuine questions, crazy questions.

1445
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 3: For example, in a place like Minneapolis, where the state

1446
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 3: and the local government genuinely does not believe that people

1447
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 3: can be illegal, what do you do if you have

1448
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:01,799
Speaker 3: a federal government who says that people are here illegally

1449
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 3: and should be deported. That is actually a crazy question.

1450
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 3: That's I mean, we have reconciled with that in our

1451
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 3: past too. So there is not any scenario where you

1452
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 3: can't have federal agents trying to enforce federal immigration lot.

1453
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 3: Would I say that this is being done in a

1454
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 3: better and appropriate way.

1455
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.

1456
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: And I've said for this I think entire case that

1457
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 3: throughout this entire year that one of the things that

1458
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 3: they have done is turned at chaotic, and that's part

1459
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 3: of the reason why much of the polling is going

1460
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 3: the way that it does. I do think, as you

1461
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 3: just said, we can acknowledge the responsibility ultimately of people's actions,

1462
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:39,519
Speaker 3: and then we can also look at I mean, you know,

1463
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 3: it's kind of like with the with January sixth, Like

1464
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 3: would it really have happened if Trump had not made

1465
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 3: it into a thing? Now? Is he individually responsible for

1466
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,799
Speaker 3: the actions of people like taking a shit on Nancy

1467
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 3: Pelosi's desk?

1468
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 2: No?

1469
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 3: But is he at least like bled and bred into

1470
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 3: a culture with this rhetoric in the way that that happened.

1471
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 3: I think everybody agrees with that, pointing out the same

1472
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 3: thing whenever it comes to what I think will largely

1473
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 3: lead to you know, if you said, an expectation of

1474
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 3: this is the only way that justice can be served.

1475
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 3: And you know, notice again these people do not have

1476
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 3: a good track record and are usually incorrect whenever it

1477
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 3: comes to again every high profile case that they have

1478
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 3: decried as murder, and that usually whenever something doesn't work

1479
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 3: out the way that they want it to, you know,

1480
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 3: excuse and in some cases encourage or look past or belittle,

1481
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 3: you know, the type of violence which is happening. I

1482
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 3: think that's a problem. And so yeah, I mean I

1483
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 3: think I'm pretty consistent on this question.

1484
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 2: One last thing I want to say just about this

1485
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 2: this piece about like you know, Jacob Fry saying get

1486
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 2: the fuck down and all of that is you know,

1487
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: I know you don't support sanctuary city policies, but I

1488
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 2: just want to be clear about what they are. There's

1489
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 2: no instance where you have a mayor or a governor

1490
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 2: or any sort of elected representative who is like sent

1491
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: in police or the National Guard to like block ICE

1492
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 2: agents from in fact in all in many of these instances,

1493
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: like in Chicago, oftentimes like the police officers were sort

1494
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 2: of actively assisting ICE or at least you know, what

1495
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 2: they would say was like keeping the peace, but basically

1496
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: you know, uh, dealing with the protesters and allowing ICE

1497
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 2: to do their thing.

1498
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:19,639
Speaker 4: Okay.

1499
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 2: So I just don't want people to get the impression

1500
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: that you have Jacob Frey or anyone else who's actively

1501
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: blocking ICE from operating.

1502
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 4: ICE was operating in Minneapolis right now.

1503
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 2: They say, we're not going to use our resources to

1504
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 2: you know, to help you you know, there are these

1505
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 2: certain restrictions between what our law enforcement can do and

1506
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,560
Speaker 2: what you know, and the way that they can assist.

1507
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 4: We're not going to collaborate in these sorts. Okay, that's all.

1508
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: That is all correct, But the general ideas like no,

1509
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 2: you like, obviously you have the right as the federal

1510
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 2: government to come in and operate, just we do not

1511
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 2: have to. We are not all delegated to spend our city, state,

1512
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 2: local resources to assist. So I just want to be

1513
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 2: clear about what we're talking about here in terms of

1514
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 2: the interaction between the local officials, the local law enforcement,

1515
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 2: and the ICE and other federal agents.

1516
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 3: Sure, but Tim Tim Walsh did says, you know, potentially

1517
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 3: putting the Minnesota National Guard on.

1518
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,519
Speaker 4: That's because of protests. Literally, that's because of protest. That's

1519
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 4: because of protests.

1520
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,680
Speaker 2: That's what he's afraid of, because he got a lot

1521
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 2: of heat for not bringing the National Guard fast enough

1522
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: after George Floyd, right, So.

1523
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, which was insane. They're full of nineteen year old

1524
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: line cooks.

1525
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: I object to the National Guard being brought in here

1526
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 2: as well, but because like it's very clear to me,

1527
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 2: he means that to make sure that the protests don't

1528
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 2: get out of hand.

1529
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: I didn't.

1530
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily take it that I could be wrong.

1531
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 3: I need to look at you know, maybe I'm Twitter

1532
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 3: brained and watch too short of a clip, but that's

1533
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 3: immediately kind of what I saw, and I.

1534
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: Was like, well, you know, look, we can argue all day.

1535
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 3: I think sanctuary city policy itself is in and of

1536
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:00,799
Speaker 3: itself crazy being proud of literally just not enforcing federal

1537
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 3: immigration or not caring about that. Again, you know, I

1538
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 3: believe also in locality and if that's what you want

1539
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: to do, like, you can do that. If that's what

1540
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 3: you guys want to spend your taxpayer dollars on, be

1541
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 3: my guest, I guess, but as long as it's like

1542
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 3: actually yours and not the FEDS. But this does I

1543
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 3: think open that question also though, where you were talking

1544
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 3: about earlier about confrontation is well, in a scenario of

1545
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 3: national guard and or active what is it like actively

1546
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 3: trying to impede, which I think there have been instances,

1547
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 3: let's say in Los Angeles or pre announcing. Well, weren't

1548
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: there they were, like pre announcing where raids were. I

1549
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,839
Speaker 3: need to go check the details before I look exactly

1550
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 3: what it was, but so anyways, but there have been

1551
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 3: If there are more instances like that, I think most

1552
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 3: people would say that is actually a crazy and this

1553
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:50,919
Speaker 3: type of situation.

1554
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I don't what do you do about that?

1555
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 4: But there haven't been instances of that.

1556
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 3: No, there was no instances of leaders who have been

1557
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 3: either pre announcing and rewarding people where certain federal immigration

1558
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 3: rates are from especial state and or local official.

1559
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, that is literally.

1560
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 3: Like trying to obstruct and or stop federal immigration enforcement,

1561
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,440
Speaker 3: literally aiding people who are here illegally.

1562
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 4: People information. But but what I would I would just

1563
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 4: say that there there is.

1564
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:21,919
Speaker 1: Criminals.

1565
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 2: I'm not aware of any instance where there has been.

1566
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 2: In fact, like I said, in all the I think

1567
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 2: it's much more the case that the local police officers

1568
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 2: have assisted federal agents in their activities and you know

1569
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 2: generally like see themselves sort of like in solidarity with

1570
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 2: with ICE and CBP and whatever. It's just so it's

1571
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:48,759
Speaker 2: it's not that it's not that Gavin Newsom or Jacob

1572
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 2: Friar whatever are saying you can't come in and enforce

1573
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 2: immigration laws. They're just saying it's a federal law you

1574
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 2: enforce it on your own.

1575
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: Time, that's right all. Should we move to Venezuela.

1576
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,639
Speaker 4: Yes, the speak

1577
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 2: PRIs speak WITHO.