Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
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Speaker 1: Very excited to have a special guest with us this morning,
Speaker 1: former presidential candidate, current co chair of the Forward Party
Speaker 1: and author of the new book The Last Election, I
Speaker 1: should say co author alongside Stephen marsh There's the book.
Speaker 1: You can see it there, and it's a novel. This
Speaker 1: time it is not nonfiction as his previous books were.
Speaker 1: The one and only friend of the show, Andrew Yang.
Speaker 1: Great to see sir, Good to see you, man.
Speaker 3: To be back.
Speaker 4: Hey guys, congratulations on all the success in the new
Speaker 4: studio and everything.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you and the.
Speaker 2: Group.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that cool?
Speaker 3: We're going to do keep part of it. Yeah, thanks,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 1: So Andrew just talked to us a little bit about
Speaker 1: the book and what it was that inspired this kind
Speaker 1: of you know, dark take that again, it's fiction, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of a dark take on the future of America.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got all these experiences running for president, Krystal.
Speaker 4: I was trying to convey them to folks, and there
Speaker 4: was something of a message. I mean, I sat down
Speaker 4: with people and they said, what do you really think
Speaker 4: is going to happen or what happens if there's a
Speaker 4: major independent presidential candidate? And I said, here's what I
Speaker 4: think is going to happen. And then the question was
Speaker 4: how do you get that message out? And we thought
Speaker 4: that telling a story was the most compelling, accessible way
Speaker 4: to do so, because people like stories more than they
Speaker 4: like op eds or facts and statistics, which is something
Speaker 4: I also learned on the presidential trail.
Speaker 2: Despite the math, despite the math hat unfortunately you probably right, Andrew,
Speaker 2: what are you seeing as signs of decay in our
Speaker 2: democracy and all that that you think that you think
Speaker 2: are they are bringing to you know forward in your book,
Speaker 2: like is it just January sixth? Like are there other
Speaker 2: events and other markers that you can look for and
Speaker 2: think about that you're trying to incorporate a lot.
Speaker 4: Of it's the media, but you guys can see you
Speaker 4: talk about this all the time on your show. I mean,
Speaker 4: you're looking at a Biden Trump rematch that two thirds
Speaker 4: of the country doesn't want. And so if you have
Speaker 4: laying that wide or vacuum that big, then someone's going
Speaker 4: to move.
Speaker 3: To fill it.
Speaker 4: But you don't have a system that naturally accommodates new
Speaker 4: entrants or parties. Frankly, and as the coachair of the
Speaker 4: Forward Party, you know, like I lived this, so and
Speaker 4: so if someone runs, they may end up not having
Speaker 4: the desired effect. I mean, when people ask me about
Speaker 4: this Biden Trump matchup and what to do, I say
Speaker 4: to them, honestly that the best thing you could do
Speaker 4: is just run the craziest person you could think of,
Speaker 4: because the way our system is set up, that might
Speaker 4: actually do some good. Whereas if you run a really
Speaker 4: good person, that might not do some good.
Speaker 1: Right and so, Andrew, as you're looking at this, you
Speaker 1: know the way that the sort of partisan media usually
Speaker 1: portrays the problems in the country. They usually focus on
Speaker 1: like specific people, like oh, it's the supporters of Trump
Speaker 1: that are the problem, or oh, it's the supporters of
Speaker 1: buying the Democrats that are the problem. But I think
Speaker 1: one thing that you have done consistently is to show
Speaker 1: people a lot of care and empathy regardless of where
Speaker 1: they are on the political spectrum, which is why you
Speaker 1: had a lot of bipartisan support, and to stay laser
Speaker 1: focused on some of the more systemic issues. So what
Speaker 1: do you see as the core of the issues that
Speaker 1: have led you to feel like we are a nation
Speaker 1: on the brink?
Speaker 4: The core issue, Crystal, is the structural incentives for the
Speaker 4: actors in the system, and right now, the fiction is
Speaker 4: that our leaders have to make fifty one percent of
Speaker 4: us happy.
Speaker 3: They don't.
Speaker 4: They just need to placate and please the most extreme
Speaker 4: ten to twelve percent in their party's base, which on
Speaker 4: the Republican side has really driven them off a cliff.
Speaker 4: There are distortions on the Democratic side clearly, and you
Speaker 4: can see that in the lack of a primary for
Speaker 4: Joe Biden, which I think is setting the country up
Speaker 4: for a potential catastrophe. So you have these two parties
Speaker 4: that aren't actually listening to us anymore, and they cordoned
Speaker 4: the country up into blue and red zones where the
Speaker 4: vast majority of the people watching this are listening to
Speaker 4: this right now, there's no suspense as to which party
Speaker 4: are going to represent you in Congress. It's going to
Speaker 4: be the Democrat of the Republican, and so there's this
Speaker 4: illusion of competition that they're casting out. And I said
Speaker 4: this with you and Kyle, you have a twenty percent
Speaker 4: congressional approval rate and then a ninety four percent reelection rate.
Speaker 4: So in that system, you can do things like thrust
Speaker 4: three million American kids back into poverty, and there's no
Speaker 4: real problem for you politically because you're insulated from any competition.
Speaker 4: So it's this rot in the system that is separating
Speaker 4: our leaders from us. And you can put a good
Speaker 4: person in the system, which I prefer, you can put
Speaker 4: a terrible person in the system, which you know I
Speaker 4: don't like at all, And there are terrible people in
Speaker 4: the system. But unfortunately the system itself is driving a
Speaker 4: lot of the dysfunction, and then the media becomes complicit
Speaker 4: in maintaining the system.
Speaker 2: Your rise, I always saw, is very indicative of the
Speaker 2: Internet and its first imprints for real this time on
Speaker 2: the election. I've made a comparison here previously about Vivek Ramaswami,
Speaker 2: someone who you've talked about previously, just wanted to ask
Speaker 2: for your general take so far as to not only
Speaker 2: the overall primary process, the Democratic primary, the Republican primary,
Speaker 2: how you see some of the seeds that you planted
Speaker 2: and how they're manifesting right now.
Speaker 4: You know, I got to say you two and breaking
Speaker 4: points are part of the cure, part of the antidote.
Speaker 3: You talk about my run activating people in a whole
Speaker 3: new way.
Speaker 4: I feel like you guys do it every day, so
Speaker 4: really like, kudos to you all for actually helping people
Speaker 4: see things more clearly. I wish that there was a
Speaker 4: Democratic primary, and one of the ideas I put out
Speaker 4: there was that there should be a vice presidential primary.
Speaker 4: If Joe Biden insists on saying, hey, it's going to
Speaker 4: be me again, like let's figure out who my successor
Speaker 4: should be, and then there are folks who are running
Speaker 4: who have captured some of the anti institutional energy.
Speaker 3: I think Vivek is certainly very high on that list.
Speaker 4: The Republican Party is more welcoming to outsiders than Democrats,
Speaker 4: in part because of their relationship with the media, and
Speaker 4: I wish that any one other than Trump seemed like
Speaker 4: they were achieving enough energy to make sure Trump's not
Speaker 4: the nominee. I think Trump's a total catastrophe, and I'm
Speaker 4: trying to do anything I can to keep Trump from
Speaker 4: winning again. As we're having this conversation, I would see
Speaker 4: Trump as unfortunately a mild favorite to win reelection, in
Speaker 4: large part because I think there are going to be
Speaker 4: multiple candidates in the general in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Well, let's take into that.
Speaker 2: You think because of party stratification, as in you said
Speaker 2: multiple people running like third party bids, or do you
Speaker 2: think it's because of structural factors like Joe Biden and
Speaker 2: weaknesses there to say that he's a mild favor for reelection.
Speaker 4: Oh, no, I think Trump's a mild favorite to win
Speaker 4: re election. But so first, I think Joe Biden is
Speaker 4: not the best candidate on the Democratic side.
Speaker 3: I think having a bad process. I think he's being
Speaker 3: saddled with.
Speaker 4: Some tough economic issues that of course people are going
Speaker 4: to lay at his feet. But I think that the
Speaker 4: Democrats should have a real process and try and find
Speaker 4: a better candidate that also helps take age off the table.
Speaker 4: So that's one thing. Now, Trump and Biden are just
Speaker 4: about tied in the general. According to most accounts, Trump
Speaker 4: leads Biden on the economy among independent voters very significantly,
Speaker 4: by maybe twenty percentage points. And so if you have
Speaker 4: those two head to head, it's a bit of a
Speaker 4: coin flip. But then if you introduce Cornell West and
Speaker 4: the Green Party, maybe an RFK as an independent, maybe
Speaker 4: a Joe Manchin, then I feel like the landscape favors Trump.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to be said about that. Andrew,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you as well. You talked about
Speaker 1: some of the structural factors. You talked about the system
Speaker 1: of the elections themselves, the party control, the media, control
Speaker 1: the way that they choose to operate, and then sent
Speaker 1: a structure that they have as well. What will you
Speaker 1: think social media plays into this landscape too well.
Speaker 4: I think social media is part of the problem, honestly.
Speaker 4: I think it dumps fuel on the most sensationalist and
Speaker 4: it makes everyone's appeal have to be very emotional and
Speaker 4: tribal because that's how you get energy. And then in
Speaker 4: some cases small dollar donations, it turns us all into
Speaker 4: characters in a play and the narratives are not leading
Speaker 4: us anywhere constructive. It was Ezra Client who said corrupt
Speaker 4: system compromises good individuals with ease. I'm going to say
Speaker 4: social media as a corrupt system.
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting way of putting it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess Andrew, you know, we have a lot of
Speaker 2: people who so watch the show O G Yanggang, many
Speaker 2: people who you activated into politics. So we've been trying
Speaker 2: to carry forward some of that energy now that it's
Speaker 2: been you know, several years since all of that happened.
Speaker 2: What are some of the reflections that you have about
Speaker 2: Bible political movements, why you decided to go with the
Speaker 2: Ford Party, and where people should channel their energy if
Speaker 2: they want to keep it in a good direction and
Speaker 2: not into cynicism.
Speaker 4: What I would say to folks who want to make
Speaker 4: good things happen for people, and I put myself in
Speaker 4: that category, is that the two party system is designed
Speaker 4: to diffuse and weaken any popular energy, in part by
Speaker 4: separating us from each other. There are millions of Americans
Speaker 4: on both sides of the aisle that don't like child poverty,
Speaker 4: but unfortunately, right now we're being separated and said, hey, like,
Speaker 4: your enemy are the people over there, and we're being
Speaker 4: set up. So unless you make headway on this system,
Speaker 4: the system that makes our leaders unaccountable to us leaders
Speaker 4: that make us think that we are each other's enemies
Speaker 4: even though we're all kind of in the same boat
Speaker 4: in terms of AI and these other issues.
Speaker 3: So the folks that supported.
Speaker 4: Me, I get that you might think that, hey, this
Speaker 4: is a different vibe or approach, but this is to
Speaker 4: me the real approach, because if I was running around saying, hey,
Speaker 4: let's do all these things, the system would not let
Speaker 4: those things occur. So unless we actually amend and modernize
Speaker 4: the system, we're just going to drive ourselves crazy and
Speaker 4: each other, you know, eventually, would be on each other's throats.
Speaker 3: So let's change the system itself. That's the real path forward.
Speaker 4: And I feel like Crystal actually exerted herself in this
Speaker 4: direction a number of years ago, trying to get different
Speaker 4: candidates in the Midwest who represented more of like a
Speaker 4: populist working class. I mean that that that was one approach,
Speaker 4: But the incentives of the parties are driving them very
Speaker 4: very strongly in particular directions, and it's away from the
Speaker 4: direction that Chrystal was working them towards.
Speaker 3: Because you know, like at this point they look.
Speaker 4: At Ohio and say, hey, OHI I was not competitive
Speaker 4: for us anymore.
Speaker 3: So I guess I don't care. Don't matter, like we
Speaker 3: don't care anymore with this trade you in for as state.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Andrew, you said something in the interview you
Speaker 1: did with me and Kyle that stuck with me, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, when you ran for president and you put
Speaker 1: UBI forward as a central part of your campaign, you
Speaker 1: massively move the needle in terms of support for it,
Speaker 1: interest in it. You made it so it was a
Speaker 1: majority support issue. But if you have a system that
Speaker 1: doesn't reflect the world of majority or even take it
Speaker 1: into account whatsoever, it doesn't matter. And so I think
Speaker 1: that's why you know the direction you're going and focusing
Speaker 1: on things like Ranke choice voting that could actually open
Speaker 1: things up so you actually have more democratic choice available
Speaker 1: to people. I think it's actually a good and positive direction.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're engaged in that.
Speaker 3: I totally agree.
Speaker 4: Well, Crystal, that is really the fundamental insight is that
Speaker 4: seventy four percent of us want term limits, not seeing
Speaker 4: that eighty five percent of us want less money in politics,
Speaker 4: don't want members of Congress to be able to trade.
Speaker 3: Who cares?
Speaker 4: You know, It's like what we want is essentially irrelevant.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna guess eighty percent plus of us don't like
Speaker 4: child poverty, you know what I mean, Like, we'd like
Speaker 4: to lift those three million kids back out of poverty,
Speaker 4: but of course that doesn't matter. And you look around
Speaker 4: and say, where were the protests when all these people
Speaker 4: were re impoverished.
Speaker 3: Not a peep.
Speaker 4: So the it's only when you realize that what we
Speaker 4: want and think is irrelevant in the system do you
Speaker 4: actually catch on. And then after you catch on, you say, Okay,
Speaker 4: how can we make it so that what we want
Speaker 4: actually does matter? I mean, two thirds of Americans want
Speaker 4: universal based income, so are we going to get it?
Speaker 4: Not in this system? You know, it's only in a
Speaker 4: better system that we'd have a chance at addressing the
Speaker 4: real challenges of this time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree with you, Andrew. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us, and guys, go out and check out
Speaker 1: the book. It's called The Last Election, co authored Andrew
Speaker 1: and his co author Stephen barsh Really interesting. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes stories are the best way to drive
Speaker 1: a point home and get people to pay attention to
Speaker 1: some of these underlying structural issues that you're trying to
Speaker 1: highlight here. So Andrew always great to see you and
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time, my friend.
Speaker 2: Good to see you man, Thank you great.
Speaker 3: Seeing you guys too. Thanks for having Meely, it's our pleasure.