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Speaker 1: The name Chris Watts will live in infamy after the

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Speaker 1: Little Girls. But believe it or not, has he had

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Speaker 1: second thoughts behind bars? Apparently the inside of his jail

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Speaker 1: cell is plastered with photos of his dead wife and

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Speaker 1: two little girls, Bella and Celeste. And catch this, he

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Speaker 1: has struck up an unusual friendship with another perp behind bars,

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Speaker 1: the kidnapper Jake Patterson, who swiped Jamie Class and murdered

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Speaker 1: both of her parents. Now, gee, what did these two have?

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Speaker 1: Income crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now, in case you

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Speaker 1: don't remember, take a listen to Killer Dad Chris Watts.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to hear, but you are hearing

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Speaker 1: Killer Dad Chris Watts telling investigators that after he murdered

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Speaker 1: his wife, he quote didn't know what happened, really, because

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Speaker 1: then his daughter came in, his little bitty baby girl

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Speaker 1: aged four, and says, what's wrong with mommy? And he

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Speaker 1: tells her, quote mommy doesn't feel good. Then ends up

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Speaker 1: killing both of his daughters, taking them to an oil

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Speaker 1: production site where he works, and shoving them down huge

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Speaker 1: crude oil receptacles actually about this bigure round about eleven

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Speaker 1: inches wide. At the time, he had pushed their bodies down,

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Speaker 1: tearing and crushing their shoulders to get them hidden, then

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Speaker 1: burying his wife Shennan in a shallow grave. So this

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Speaker 1: guy starting a friendship behind bars with another known mass killer,

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Speaker 1: joining me an all star panel to try to figure

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Speaker 1: it out, break it down, put it back together again

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Speaker 1: with me right now. A psycho analyst from Beverly Hills,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. You can find her at doctor Bethany

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Speaker 1: Marshall dot com, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: and I can verify A crime scene expert. Cheryl McCullum,

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Speaker 1: death investigator, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, an author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan special

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Speaker 1: guests joining us, Sean Walsh joining us from Daily Mail,

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Speaker 1: and John Glatt, author of The Perfect Father, The truth

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Speaker 1: story of Chris Watts, his All American family and a

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Speaker 1: shocking murderer. It will be available everywhere on Tuesday. Let

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Speaker 1: me start with you, Sean Walsh, longtime colleague and friend,

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Speaker 1: joining me from Daily Mail, which you know is one

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Speaker 1: after Crime Online, one of the first things I read

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Speaker 1: every single morning. Sean Walsh, you report that killer dad.

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Speaker 1: Chris Watts has plastered his jail cell walls with photos

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Speaker 1: of his murdered family and stuck up a friendship with

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Speaker 1: Jamie Klaus's kidnapper. He left out the fact that he

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Speaker 1: murdered both of her parents trying to get her Jake Patterson,

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Speaker 1: after bonding over Bible studies behind bars. Hey, I'm all

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Speaker 1: for the Bible, and I'm happy those two are, let's

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Speaker 1: just say, finding a new life behind bars. But that's

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Speaker 1: where they need to stay. So how do you know

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Speaker 1: all this, Shaun Walsh, Daily Mail. Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we were very lucky to get the first look at

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Speaker 1: a brand new book called The Perfect Father. And in

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Speaker 1: this new book they take us through what could be

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Speaker 1: described as a hit, a remake of the hit television

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Speaker 1: show The Odd Couple. But these are two of the

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Speaker 1: most odd men anyone will ever encounter. Hold on right there,

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Speaker 1: Sean Walsh, Odd. I don't know if I've a call

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Speaker 1: to mass killer's odd because don't you think that's kind

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Speaker 1: of I'm putting perfume on the pig little ephemistic Because

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Speaker 1: to you, Cheryl McCollum, these are two of the most

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Speaker 1: heinous crimes I've ever seen. Break it down, Cheryl, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I think they've got a lot in common. I bet

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Speaker 1: they were fast friends, Nancy. When I think about him

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Speaker 1: having the photographs plastered all over his jail, cell, I

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Speaker 1: think of folks like your hand, vanderslut and In mar Guadiqui,

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Speaker 1: Lushandre lev and Natalie Holloway specifically. Of course, that's what

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Speaker 1: he's done. That's how he is displaying what made him famous.

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Speaker 1: It's the same as display in a trophy for him.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Cheryl, Sometimes I worry about you because

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Speaker 1: you know my vivid recollections. My first image of you

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Speaker 1: is at a crime scene, really doing your thing. What

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Speaker 1: was that about two o'clock in the morning, you say,

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Speaker 1: when I pulled up and saw you there, Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: And for you to talk about them so euphemistically, just

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Speaker 1: like Sean Walsh did. Plus, you're scaring me in the

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Speaker 1: fact that you get into their head. I mean, doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. To for Cheryl McCullin to refer to these

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Speaker 1: photos plastered on their walls of their dead victims as trophies.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she's right, Bethany, I actually thought that was brilliant.

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Speaker 1: I was blown away when she said that because I

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Speaker 1: had a much deeper analysis of the situation. But I

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Speaker 1: could be wrong. I was thinking that Chris Watts killer

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Speaker 1: dad has something called alexisymia. Alexe to find me is

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Speaker 1: when people use words and make gestures as if there

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Speaker 1: is a deep emotional meaning, but actually they are completely

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Speaker 1: incapable of bringing meaning to the words. The example I

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Speaker 1: always use is the BTK killer when he was defending

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Speaker 1: himself in court and he said, oh, I'm such a

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Speaker 1: nice guy. You know when I killed that one girl,

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Speaker 1: you know, before I strangled her, you know, I put

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Speaker 1: her head on a pillow and I brought her a

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Speaker 1: glass of water, and she was crying, and I comforted her.

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Speaker 1: And the word comfort did not mean the same thing

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Speaker 1: to him as it does to you and me. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it had no meaning at all. So using words that

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Speaker 1: appear deep in nature but actually have absolutely no meaning.

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Speaker 1: So when Chris Watts plasters the pictures all over the

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Speaker 1: place and talks about writing letters to his little girls

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Speaker 1: and how much he loves them, it means absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 1: But actually I think Cheryl's right, not me. I think

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Speaker 1: his family made him famous and he's clinging to them

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Speaker 1: as trophies or it could be both, Nancy. It's a

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Speaker 1: complicated situation, you know. To you. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: Just let's give everybody a little reality check, just a

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Speaker 1: little shake him and wake him. What happened to the

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Speaker 1: bodies of the two little girls, Bella and Celeste? And

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Speaker 1: don't hold back, Joe Scott Morgan, tell the truth. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, the first time you testified in front of

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Speaker 1: a jury and you had to recount details like this,

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Speaker 1: I remember the first time I had to curse in

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Speaker 1: front of a jury. I mean every word, the P word,

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Speaker 1: the C word, the F word, the every word. I

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Speaker 1: could hardly say. I was reading from a definitive confession. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what he said, Well, suddenly the next child got a

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Speaker 1: lot easier. By the time I was done prosecuting, I

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Speaker 1: was swearing like a sailor. I had to swear it off.

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Speaker 1: Pardon the pun when I gave birth to the twins.

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Speaker 1: But don't glaze over it is as much as you

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Speaker 1: were used to describing this. Tell me the way he

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Speaker 1: disposed of these two little girls, Nancy. He dumped these

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Speaker 1: children and into these unrefined oil tanks. They contain unrefined

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Speaker 1: oil or petroleum. And he put them in through and

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Speaker 1: this is quite interesting of a term. He put them

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Speaker 1: through a little door that's referred to as a thief hatch.

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Speaker 1: You know, we could go on with metaphors all day long.

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Speaker 1: But after he robbed them of their lives, he stuffed

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Speaker 1: them down through this little opening. If you'd mentioned ten inches,

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Speaker 1: I think it was actually twelve inches, I mean eight

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Speaker 1: inches that he had to pass these bodies through. And

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Speaker 1: as he was trying to pass them through that there

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Speaker 1: was tufts of hair that were caught in the latch,

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Speaker 1: as well as peeling back the top layer of skin.

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Speaker 1: Bella actually on her buttock because she had a big

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Speaker 1: scrape where where the skin had been kind of raked

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Speaker 1: away as he forced the bodies through there. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the toughest, toughest part of this is getting the shoulders

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Speaker 1: through there. And then after he did this, he you know,

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Speaker 1: these bodies they were both separated, they were in two

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Speaker 1: separate containers. He dropped them in to these containers, which

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Speaker 1: in fact contained raw petroleum. This is not refined oil.

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Speaker 1: And so at this point you have substances that these bodies,

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Speaker 1: these two little precious angels bodies were floating around in

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Speaker 1: that contained chemicals like tallween. You know, talluween is actually

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Speaker 1: a component that's found in T and T nancy. It's

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Speaker 1: something that's used to strip paint with. It's highly, highly

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Speaker 1: caustic and at their bodies. You know, we think about

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Speaker 1: decomposition in these in these circumstances like this, the process

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Speaker 1: was not just decomposition. It was literally a chemical breakdown

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Speaker 1: of the bodies. Uh. This animal knew what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: He worked in this industry. He knew what the possibility was.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't just a matter of hiding their bodies.

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Speaker 1: It was a matter of disintegrating them, you know, literally

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Speaker 1: rendering them down in this environment. And at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, it's so toxic that the teams that

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Speaker 1: went out to reclaim these bodies, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: to drain these things in order to get in there.

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Speaker 1: They created and he created an ecological disaster with this

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Speaker 1: and exposed all the crime scene investigators to this. This

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Speaker 1: guy is a monster. There is no doubt. In his

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Speaker 1: jail fell According to Sean Walsh at Daily Mail, he's

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Speaker 1: plastered these picture perfect photos of his dead wife and children,

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Speaker 1: and has struck up an unusual friendship with killer Patterson,

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Speaker 1: who kidnapped a girl, Jamie Class. Crime Stories with Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace those of you just joining us, It really caught

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Speaker 1: my eye when I found out that Chris Watts had

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Speaker 1: befriended Jamie Claus's kidnapper. For those of you that recall,

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Speaker 1: Jamie Class, beautiful red headed little girl got off her

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Speaker 1: school bus and this perv had been stalking her, saw

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Speaker 1: her get off the school bus and says, quote, he

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Speaker 1: had been thinking of kidnapping a girl for two years

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Speaker 1: and that if it quote wasn't Jamie, it would probably

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Speaker 1: be someone else. Take a list into our friends at CBS. Jackie.

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Speaker 1: Here's the news out of Wisconsin, and it's a shocker.

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Speaker 1: A twenty one year old Wisconsin man has been charged

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Speaker 1: and the kidnapping of thirteen year old Jamie Class and

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Speaker 1: the murder of her parents. This is sort of a

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Speaker 1: miracle story. Investigators say they believe Jake Thomas Patterson killed

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Speaker 1: Jamie's parents because he wanted to abduct her. He was

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Speaker 1: identified by police just minutes after Jamie gave a detailed

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Speaker 1: description and the good news is. Jamie is alive and

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Speaker 1: according to police, she is well. A JOHNA. Diaz is

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Speaker 1: following the story and baron Wisconsin. Nearly three months after

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Speaker 1: she disappeared, Jamie Class has been found alive and safe.

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Speaker 1: In cases like this, we often need a big break,

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Speaker 1: and it was Jamie herself who gave us that break.

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Speaker 1: At a news conference this morning, the Sheriff's Department gave

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Speaker 1: an update on the case. Jamie was taken to a

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Speaker 1: local hospital up in the Blue Superior area, where she

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Speaker 1: was looked over and examined, and she was held overnight

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Speaker 1: for observation. Klaus had been missing since October fifteenth, after

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Speaker 1: police discovered someone had broken into her family's home in

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Speaker 1: barn and fatally shot her parents. For months, police and

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Speaker 1: volunteers searched for the thirteen year old. For those of

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Speaker 1: you just joining us, these two Patterson Klaus's kidnapper and

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Speaker 1: killer dad Chris Watts now have made friends behind bars,

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Speaker 1: do youse Sean Walsh Daily Mail. When I think of

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Speaker 1: these two fraternizing behind bars, I can only think of

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Speaker 1: a scene from Shakespeare where witches are stirring a pot

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Speaker 1: at night over a fire, cackling double double toil and trouble.

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Speaker 1: These two, Satan and bill Zebub have made friends. I

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Speaker 1: could just see them, you know, twitching their tails and

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Speaker 1: gnashing their teeth. Do you, ever, how does it weigh

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Speaker 1: on you, Sean Watt, when you're constantly reporting on evildoers,

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Speaker 1: I mean real evildoers like the killer dad and the

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Speaker 1: class kidnapper. And you can't forget that class's parents of

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Speaker 1: the worst. I mean, not only did he kidnap her,

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Speaker 1: but he took her mother and father away from her forever.

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Speaker 1: I'd say, you say, birds of a feather flock together,

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Speaker 1: and according to the perfect Father, what's met the double

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Speaker 1: murder of Patterson When they were placed together in neighboring

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Speaker 1: cells just after he arrived in the Wisconsin jail in

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Speaker 1: December of twenty eighteen. The pair of apparently becomes so

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Speaker 1: close that Watts will step in and calm Patterson when

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Speaker 1: he's getting angry with other prisoners. Because there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of nasty cat calls that get called out to

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Speaker 1: them by the other prisoners. I can imagine they're not

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Speaker 1: exactly two of the most popular guys inside the jail.

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Speaker 1: You know, I forgot to mention that Shenan Watts was

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Speaker 1: pregnant at the time her husband murdered her, and she

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Speaker 1: suffered coffin birth after he murdered her. When her body

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Speaker 1: was found in a shallow grave there at the oil fields,

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Speaker 1: she had actually given birth when she was killed, and

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Speaker 1: the baby Nicos I would call his name, was actually there,

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Speaker 1: I think in her underwear a dead I mean, the

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Speaker 1: scenario is awful. Guys, you're hearing Sean Walsh, who is

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Speaker 1: a big honcho at Delhi Mail who has reported on this.

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Speaker 1: He keeps referring to the perfect Father. The true story

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Speaker 1: of Chris Watts, his All American family shocking murder, available

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Speaker 1: Tuesday right now with me a very special guest. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad John, you literally wrote the book that propels Shawn

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Speaker 1: Walsh to send me this story about these two befriending

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Speaker 1: each other. I can't wait. Just tell me everything. Start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, right well, I mean, I was doing

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Speaker 1: the book and I happened to be in the spring Lake,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, and I wanted to interview Chris's parents, and

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Speaker 1: I came over, and his mother, Cindy, happened to be

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Speaker 1: mowing the lawn, and so I went over introduced myself.

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Speaker 1: She said she couldn't talk to me. I gave her

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Speaker 1: a business card and then I went to Chris's scorn.

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Speaker 1: About an hour later, my phone went and it was Cindy,

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Speaker 1: and she very much did want to talk because I

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Speaker 1: don't think she really had anybody to talk to about this.

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Speaker 1: And we developed a relationship over the next year where

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Speaker 1: we talked a lot, and she would ask me what

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Speaker 1: I thought about Chris, because she really was baffled by

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Speaker 1: what had happened and at great odds to understand it.

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Speaker 1: And she would really fill me in with what was

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Speaker 1: going on with Chris, you know, with and he did

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Speaker 1: the plea deal and everything like that. And she told

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Speaker 1: me about his friendship and fat with Jack Jake Patterson

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Speaker 1: that had developed. I should, in fact add that Jake

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Speaker 1: Patterson was this chart. He's been moved to another jail

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Speaker 1: about six months ago, so it was only a short

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Speaker 1: period of time that they were close, but they became

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Speaker 1: very good friends. And also their parents, did I think

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Speaker 1: Ronnie Watts and with men of the perfect father, so

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Speaker 1: you got to know kill her dad, Chris Watts's mother.

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Speaker 1: What did you learn? I really liked her. She was

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Speaker 1: a really really nice lady, completely helpless she had no

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Speaker 1: idea that her son had why her son had done this,

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Speaker 1: and she believed him because initially Chris had denied killing

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Speaker 1: the two little girls and accused Shechanan of doing it

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Speaker 1: and said he came in he murdered Shanan. After that

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Speaker 1: she did the Toodle girls. Nobody else believed it, but

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Speaker 1: obviously Chris Chris Watts's parents were loyal and they wanted

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Speaker 1: to believe this, and it took a long time until

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Speaker 1: he actually kind of admitted to doing this in the

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Speaker 1: plea deal that they came round to believe that he

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Speaker 1: actually had. And even though I think they have second thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Really so, the parents to this day are not convinced

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Speaker 1: their son Chris Watts murdered Shennan, Bella and Celeste Well.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, some days his mother thinks she did

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Speaker 1: he did, and other days he thinks he didn't. And

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Speaker 1: Chris Watts has never told anyone exactly what happened. There's

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Speaker 1: been so many different versions of it. He's told his

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Speaker 1: mother various versions. And she said to me, and I

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Speaker 1: finished the book saying it, that she has no idea

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Speaker 1: whatever what really happened, and she doesn't think that anybody

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Speaker 1: ever will because Chris told her that he would take

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Speaker 1: this secret to his grave. Well, what are some of

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Speaker 1: the versions Chris Watts told his mother, Well, of that

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Speaker 1: that Shenan did it. In fact, you know that here

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Speaker 1: he saw on the baby monitor that she was Chanan

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Speaker 1: was strangling Celeste and then he came up and she

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Speaker 1: was strangding Bella. So he just lost it and killed

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Speaker 1: Nan and we all we all knew and nobody ever

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Speaker 1: thought that really happened in fact, but obviously as parents,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to believe that it did because I think

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Speaker 1: they loved their granddaughters a lot, although they're not really

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Speaker 1: given credit for that. They were very, very close to

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Speaker 1: the granddaughters. And they lost a lot too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody in this story. It's so tragic. They lost everything

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Speaker 1: really because of this guy, Chris Watts. You know crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about an

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Speaker 1: unlikely duo, as Sean Walts referred to it as the

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Speaker 1: odd couple. I hardly think Walter Matthau and Jack Lemon

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Speaker 1: would appreciate that. Sean Walts, they're probably spinning in their

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Speaker 1: graves right now. Thanks to you, guys, I want you

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Speaker 1: to take a listen as the mother of Chris Watts

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Speaker 1: still doesn't believe on some days for son could do

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Speaker 1: such a thing. Listen to cut eleven. It is Chris

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Speaker 1: Watts's confession. He's telling investigators after his wife's dead, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: cut twelve. He's telling investigators that his daughter Cecy was

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Speaker 1: the first Was she alive? Alive? When he shoved her

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Speaker 1: in the oil tank? He says, No, I put the

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Speaker 1: blanket over her head, and that's how she passed. Really,

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Speaker 1: he put a blanket on her head and she just died.

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Speaker 1: That's not how suffocation works. But listen to killer Dad,

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Speaker 1: Chris Watson, his own words. So she alive? Where she

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Speaker 1: was a rosing? Okay, you can cut there because I'm

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Speaker 1: really having a hard time hearing it. You have to

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Speaker 1: really listen, Bethanie. How could he revise the past, revise

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Speaker 1: history in that manner where you just put a blanket

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Speaker 1: over her head and then she's dead? Well, Nancy, you

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Speaker 1: know when you talk to a sociopath, they always do

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Speaker 1: this strange double talk. They talk about what they've done

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Speaker 1: and then they undo it at the same time. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I put a blanket over her head. She died so

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Speaker 1: fast on the other it's like they didn't do it

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Speaker 1: at all. I mean, we talked about a story with

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Speaker 1: a sociopath many years ago who murdered a little girl

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Speaker 1: outside a car wash, and I think he said something like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she came on to me and then I murdered her,

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Speaker 1: so you know, and the little girl was twelve, if

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Speaker 1: I've call correctly. So you have, on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: the confession, on the other hand, the undoing. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure your listeners, every listener to this show has somebody

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Speaker 1: in their life who does this weird kind of double talk.

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Speaker 1: We call it in my field, doing and undoing. They

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Speaker 1: do and they undo, they do and they undo. They

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Speaker 1: talk about it because it's the glory days. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are Chris Watt's glory days. And this is why

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Speaker 1: he has formed a friendship with Jake Patterson behind bars,

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Speaker 1: even though Boo who they've been separated, is that they

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Speaker 1: can fluff each other up. They can talk about each

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Speaker 1: other's crimes. There is what we call a co narcissism

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Speaker 1: where they both think that the other person is at

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Speaker 1: the center of the universe and they're kind of I

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Speaker 1: would think that if you were to listen in to

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Speaker 1: their conversations, there would be a self congratulatory quality. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're reading the Bible, maybe they're singing praises to odd

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're thinking they're going to become ministers and evangelize

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Speaker 1: the world. These are common things that sociip has to

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Speaker 1: do behind bars. And so you know, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the odd couple. I wouldn't think of it that way.

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Speaker 1: I would think of it as you know, the perfect

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Speaker 1: husband and the perfect pair. They love each other. They

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Speaker 1: both did the same thing, and they're both rationalizing it together.

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Speaker 1: And one more quick thing, Nancy, don't underestimate the power

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Speaker 1: of a perversion to draw people together. They have a

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Speaker 1: perverse way of looking at the world. Everything's upside down,

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Speaker 1: and they share that in common. So all of their

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Speaker 1: conversations are going to be organized around this perverse view

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Speaker 1: of the world in some way. You know, Sean, could

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Speaker 1: I just say one thing? Yes, please? Do you jump

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Speaker 1: in with me? John Glack? Go ahead? Well, in fact way,

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Speaker 1: when he smothered Sella, she was the only one that

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Speaker 1: fought back, and she fought back pretty violently, and when

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Speaker 1: they examined her body, she bit her tongue multiple times

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Speaker 1: before he actually killed her. So She really fought. She

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Speaker 1: fought to live, you know, against her father, So there

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Speaker 1: wasn't just a question of putting the blanket over her head.

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Speaker 1: She really fought back, and that was one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I thought was so affecting. You know. I

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Speaker 1: don't think Celesque felt fought back, And for some reason

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Speaker 1: Shenan didn't seem to fight back because there were no

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Speaker 1: bruises or marks on her body, but little Bella did. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about the very unlikely friendship conjured up

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Speaker 1: between Jamie Class's kidnap or remember the thirteen year old

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Speaker 1: girl who was followed off of her school bus. Both

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Speaker 1: of her parents were murdered that night. Jamie Class is

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Speaker 1: asleep in her bed and they all hear something. The

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Speaker 1: dad goes to the door. He shot dad immediately. The

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Speaker 1: mom runs in and gets Jamie and they barricade themselves

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom. But her killer, Patterson, shows no mercy.

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Speaker 1: He shoots open the bathroom door. He gets in there,

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Speaker 1: he shoots down Jamie Class's mom and then kidnaps Jamie Class.

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Speaker 1: He had a sexual obsession with this little girl. You know.

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Speaker 1: Sean Walsh Daily Mail who first alerted to me to

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Speaker 1: this unlikely friendship of these two behind bars. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking. You know, you have your two beautiful

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Speaker 1: little boys. Their whole world is you and your gorgeous wife.

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Speaker 1: That's the world, and the video game Fortnite and Fortnite.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine a child and you know,

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Speaker 1: Jamie was about the age of my twins when this happens.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all day and all night, Mom, Mom, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and nothing makes me happier then to help

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Speaker 1: them or hear them call out for me. This girl

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Speaker 1: was kidnapped by a sexual pervert, held hostage in a

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Speaker 1: remote cabin, and witnessed her parents dead bodies. That's who

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, Patterson's That's it's unbelievable. I mean, when

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Speaker 1: you're given it's an honor to be a parent, and

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Speaker 1: all you can think of about is how you can

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Speaker 1: protect your children and make sure that they live the

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Speaker 1: best life that they could possibly live. And that's what

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Speaker 1: you work for, that's what you put time in with

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Speaker 1: them for. And to think that anybody is capable of this,

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Speaker 1: it's just it truly bends the mind, and it's out

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Speaker 1: of the ordinary, and it's not something that you can

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Speaker 1: ever imagine, but sadly there are people like these two

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Speaker 1: who commit crimes like this, and how unfortunate for all

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Speaker 1: of us that they found each other well behind Buzz

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition, Cold, dirty,

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Speaker 1: but determined to survive. Thirteen year old Jamie Class is

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Speaker 1: being hailed today for her incredible bravery in escaping her abductor.

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Speaker 1: This is the country road where Jamie ran up to

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Speaker 1: a woman who was walking her dog and told her,

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Speaker 1: I am Jamie Claus and I need help. She was

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Speaker 1: asking me for help, saying she was lost, she didn't

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Speaker 1: know where she was. Jeanie Nutter was walking her dog, Henry.

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Speaker 1: She says she immediately recognized the teenager who has been

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Speaker 1: the subject of a nationwide search. I knew she needed help,

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Speaker 1: and I knew I needed to get her to a

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Speaker 1: safe place, and that's just what I did. She took

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Speaker 1: Jamie to the home of neighbors Kristen and Peter Kasinskis.

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Speaker 1: The door opens and Jeanie says, this is Jamie Class

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Speaker 1: and call nine one one. They say Jamie looked skinny,

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Speaker 1: her hair was mad at and she was wearing shoes

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Speaker 1: too large for her. She looked weak, tired. You know,

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Speaker 1: looked like she lost probably fifteen to twenty pounds from

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Speaker 1: like the original photos that we had seen. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: look like she was able to take a bath or

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Speaker 1: wash her hair, clothes, or any of things like that.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, guys with me. The author

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Speaker 1: of The Perfect Father, The True Story of Chris Watts

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Speaker 1: is all American Family and a Shocking Murderer comes out

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00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. It's John Glatt. You know, John, I can't

427
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: wait to get your book. I assume you're going to

428
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: have it on Amazon. Is that correct? Yes, Yes, it's

429
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: on Amazon and everywhere you can buy books at the moment. Oh,

430
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: it's already out. Okay, great, I thought it was coming

431
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: out on Tuesday. Yeah, but you can pre order it already. Okay,

432
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing it right now. I'm pre

433
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: ordering it right now. The Perfect Father because even though

434
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: at trial the state doesn't have to prove motive, I'm

435
00:28:54,560 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: still overwhelmed with curiosity about it motivates killers like Watts

436
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: and Patterson. Now, in your book, you state that Chris Watts,

437
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: the killer Dad, still writes letters to his murdered daughters

438
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. Sends them to his parents for them

439
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: to read over their graves. Is that right, that's right. Yeah,

440
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: he does it every day. They talk to him every night,

441
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, by phone, and he dictates these letters to

442
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: his children, and then the parents dutifully go out go

443
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: over to the grave site and they read it as

444
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: the very solemn. I mean, what's particularly sad that you

445
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: would pick today? July seventeenth is actually celests fifth birthday today,

446
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: And in fact, I finished my book with exactly a

447
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: year ago. On her fourth birthday, Chris wrote her a letter,

448
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, saying calling himself her safe haven, and you know,

449
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: recreating a night they would have when he would tucker

450
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: into be and read her her favorite children's story and things.

451
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: And it's almost like he's talking to her. He pulls

452
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: her Daddy's girl because she's stuck to him like glue,

453
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: and he goes like every picture he has it in

454
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: his in his cell, I guess you're in my arms

455
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: or on my lap or holding my hand. I mean,

456
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: it's just it's just unbelievable, you know, his reality at

457
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: the moment. And he also, you know, as was said before,

458
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: he's totally got into the Bible. That's all he does

459
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: now is he leads the Bible and he preaches to

460
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: the other inmates, and he sends his parents kind of

461
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: Bible passages every day too. You know, things he's wants

462
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: to he wants them to see. And you know, of

463
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: course he's found God like many other people do behind bars.

464
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: But maybe this is his coping mechanism with you know,

465
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: what's the terrible things he has to live with? You know,

466
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: just thinking about this with me now, Sean McCall andre,

467
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl. You and I've dealt with so

468
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: many violent felons who when they start telling their story,

469
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: they gloss over, like Chris Watt says, I put the

470
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: blanket on her head and she passed. In other words,

471
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: I strangled her dead. That's what he's trying to say,

472
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: a four year old little girl, Bella and Celestian addition

473
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: to Shenan Watts, but also Cheryl, as you recall, he

474
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: had a double life. Now he is sending letters to

475
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: his dead daughters for his parents to read over their graves.

476
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: But in life, he couldn't wait to track down the

477
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 1: next woman to meet up with in a motel co

478
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: workers people on I think it was tender anybody to

479
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: have sex with. In fact, he had a longer time

480
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: mistress and he had told her he was leaving his wife.

481
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: He had to get rid of his wife so he

482
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: could be with her, even having her over for lunch

483
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,959
Speaker 1: in the family home, having sex in the home. He

484
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 1: didn't give a flying fig about those daughters. I mean, Cheryl,

485
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: everybody at some point has an argument with your husband.

486
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: You think, wow, my life is so great before I'm adam,

487
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: which of course is probably not true. I mean speaking,

488
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm projecting, I do that, Okay, my life is And

489
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: Sean Walsh, you guys have all been with me during

490
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: the whole courtship and the marriage decision and the twins,

491
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: and it's been the best thing that ever happened to me.

492
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: But in the heat of a moment, you may think

493
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: of leaving, But leaving your spouse also means leaving your

494
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: children and the world as they know it. So when

495
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: you cheat on your spouse, you're you're cheating on your

496
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: children too. And he's writing all these letters now, Cheryl maccombell.

497
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: In life, he didn't give a flying fig about them.

498
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: He don't care about them this minute. He is a

499
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: con artist and he's a very dangerous combination of con

500
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: artists and pervert. So what he's doing is manipulating his

501
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: mama right this minute with those letters. It's not about them.

502
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: It's just it's not about the Bible. He ain't preaching

503
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: a nobody. I'm gonna tell you what he's doing. When

504
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: you're in prison, you get extra time out of your

505
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: cell and extra benefits to practice your religion. That's all

506
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: he's doing. It's a con. You know. You know what, Cheryl,

507
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: I can't believe. I forgot about that. You do when

508
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: you go to any kind of AA or absolutely any

509
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: any religious activity you get out of your jail cell.

510
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting to hey, John glad author

511
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: of The Perfect Father. You didn't fall for Chris wass Bs,

512
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: did you? You didn't actually actually believe everything you seen

513
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: his poor mom? Please tell me absolutely not. I no,

514
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: But I empathize with his mother, you know, so I

515
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: just tried to see her from her point of view.

516
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, I think what he did reprehensible

517
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: and disgusting, and there's nothing good I could say about that.

518
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: The only thing I would say, and I brought it

519
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: out in the book, and I told his mother. I

520
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: would is that he never had any kind of psychiatric

521
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: evaluation after his arrest of any manner. And I would

522
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: have thought from the books I've done, you know, the

523
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: case just speaks out for a psychologist to examine him

524
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: and to see why he might have done it, what

525
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: he might be suffering from, so this doesn't repeat itself

526
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: with someone else seen his Psychiogo. John, you know, I

527
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: really respect you for all your research in your awesome book.

528
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get my mets on it. But

529
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: I think I know what he was suffering from. And

530
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: it's um I really can't say it on air, but

531
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: it's low the belt because this guy knew enough. I mean,

532
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, join in, Sean Walsh, when did you

533
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: suddenly go mute? Never in life? I mean, this guy

534
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: led a double life. He cheated like nobody's business. He

535
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: planned the murders and then he planned the cover up.

536
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: Then he continued to lie. Remember his public plea to

537
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: bring Shenana. What a crock of you know what I mean?

538
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: He was in his right mind, and John Glatt is right.

539
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: He may be a sociopath, but that is by far

540
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: Insanit from insanity Oh, I agree, Nancy. But if you

541
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: look at it, I always threw Chris Watts, and I

542
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: think if the Seven Deadly Sins took on human form,

543
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: they would be Chris Watts, that's right, and doctor Bethany Marshall.

544
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: Don't you know these two are behind bars talking about

545
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: Oh they made me confess. Oh I get hate mail.

546
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: Oh boo hoo. Who it's a boo hoo pity party.

547
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: I don't care in them. I wonder how many girlfriends

548
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: they have with this. Oh you just had to was

549
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: everything about sex with you? You know what you need?

550
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: You need to have your old twins, that'll get your

551
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: mind off. Okay, yeah, what if go ahead and a

552
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: psyche vow I can say if they had a psyche vowel,

553
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that complicated. I mean, it's sociopathy they

554
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: I mean I would think that for Jake Patterson it's

555
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: a little different, and that he had a fixed perversion

556
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: towards Jamie Clapps. He was obsessed with her. He wanted

557
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: to get the parents out of the way. But how

558
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: is that much different from Chris Watts being obsessed with

559
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: a mistress and wanting to get his wife and children

560
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: out of the way. I mean, when you think about it,

561
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: the offending pattern, the m O has an eerily similar pattern,

562
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: and that both of them had some benefit that they

563
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: hoped to gain, which was both sexual romantic in some twisted,

564
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: perverted way. They both wanted an idealized life. They just

565
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: wanted what they wanted. They were obsessed with their own goals,

566
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: and they would just wipe out human life in order

567
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: to move on to the next step. And that is

568
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: what an evaluator would find, and they would find all

569
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: kinds of other rewards. Breaking to Chris Watts, breaking to

570
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: his mother being a con artist, I love that Cheryl

571
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: said that. I think that's so apt. Manipulating other people,

572
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: even from behind bars, glorifying their lives, all kinds of

573
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: things that they have in common. I can see why

574
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: they they developed as a romance together. You know, I

575
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: want to go out with Joseph Scott Morgan because in

576
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: case we get too far into Chris Watts's redemption, could

577
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: you please just very quickly describe coughin birth, which Shenan

578
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: Watts yea, yes, Shenan after her body had begun to decompose,

579
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: after he buried it into shallow grave, out there in

580
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: the scorching heat, her body is breaking down that precious

581
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: life that she carried, Nico. The systems are the tissue

582
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: itself against a breakdown and loosen up. And not to

583
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: be too overly graphic, but at this point in time,

584
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: the muscles that normally contain or retain a baby in

585
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: place loosen through decomposition, and she literally delivers into this

586
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: filthy hole which he dug and left her body. And Nancy.

587
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: One final thing that I have to say, because I

588
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 1: covered his hearing, his final hearing live on the air,

589
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: and the thing that I was so very disappointed in

590
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: from a prosecutorial standpoint about Chris Watts was the following.

591
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: It's the fact that even with Dennis rad BTK, he

592
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: was compelled to alocute in open court. Instead, Chris Watts,

593
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: the coward that he is, sat there whimpering like a

594
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: like a like a little animal that's been wounded before

595
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: everybody and his mom's crying and everybody else is carrying

596
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: on in the court. But he was never compelled to

597
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: say what he had did or what he had done

598
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: forgive me. Instead, he's kind of shuffled out of there

599
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: and sent off to live this life. He has a

600
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: life to live up in that jail. These children don't,

601
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: his wife doesn't. But you know, he's left up there

602
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: to make friends. But he's never confessed one time in

603
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: public where everybody can actually hear him to say specifically

604
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: what he did that night. Instead, he kind of leaves

605
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: it wide open. As doctor Bethany had talked about, he'll

606
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: change his story at a moment's notice. And it's sicken

607
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: me to my back teeth. True or wars never spoken?

608
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: These two? Yes? Please One thing. He's never expressed any

609
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: remorse for what he's done. His mother told me, and

610
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that hurts. He

611
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,479
Speaker 1: has never said he was sorry for what he did.

612
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: You know, John glad. I'm so glad you told me that,

613
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: because I hate to judge so harshly, But the reality

614
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: is it's the truth. I may not like it, but

615
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: it's the truth. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off, goodbye friend,