1 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: and Stuff Media. I'm in and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: today we're talking about Greair. Yeah, the cheese, yes, cheese, 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: and the region. Kind of sure, but this is one 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: of my favorite cheeses and I always bring it to 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: cheese giving. Just understood. Sure, Okay, But I actually remember 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: the first time that I knowingly had Greer. I probably 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: had it before then, but um, my brother's ex girlfriend, 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: so I was in high school this time, she was 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: a vegetarian, and she made these homemade French fries with 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: shaved grier and mushrooms on them, and that was the 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: first time I was like, oh, so I wouldn't necessarily 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: be sky I was a veget I'd be eating these 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: fries all the time. Yeah, vegetarianism is not a weight 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: loss plan. Nope, No, it can be a healthy lifestyle choice. Absolutely. 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm happy that I tried them, and I 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: still clearly I still remember, yeah, oh I don't remember 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: that moment, but but now it's it's a top notch cheese. 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: It's great and grilled cheese. Oh, it's really good at melting. 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: There is a whole section on that later on there is, 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: but before we get to that, we should get to 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: our question what is it? Well, I'm gonna give you 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: a definition that involves a lot about the process of 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: making it, because with cheese, the making is the message. 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: So the original Swiss gre air is a type of 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: cheese made from raw hole cow's milk that's curdled with 27 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: rennette and with way from the previous batch of green 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: air in open copper vats. It's pressed into large wheels, 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: usually aged or ripened that is for about six or 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: twelve months, but anywhere from five to eighteen or so 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: can happen or longer. During that time, friendly bacteria eat 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: lactose that's the sugars from the milk that it's made with, 33 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: and they poop flavors, um and acids that helps solidify 34 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the cheese. Other friendly bacteria and yeasts grow on the 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: cheese's surface, helping create a natural rind and further affecting 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: the flavor, like creating some tasty molecules and breaking down 37 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: some not so tasty molecules, and some water evaporates out 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: until it's down to about moisture content and a few 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: chemical and en somatic processes break down some of the 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: protein chains from that original milk, and all of this 41 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: results in a cheese that's a solid but still pretty 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: soft to the bite and as smooth not crumbly. It's 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: an ivory a yellowish in color and may range in flavor, 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: but usually it tastes a little like nutty, a tiny 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: bit fruity and spicy and salty and of course creamy. 46 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: M h uh. If I lost you on any of that, 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: see our Cheddar episode for more about cheese baking. Yes, 48 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: also very old school original food stuff video series Video 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: on Cheese has some some bad graphics designed by I 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: don't check that out. Yeah, And there are also greer 51 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: style cheeses which may differ in production methods and an 52 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: ultimate product. France does also make a green air that 53 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: is similar in the broad strokes, but has a has 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: different rules altogether for what it's supposed to look and 55 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: taste like and so much more on that later. It's 56 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 1: a whole thing. It is an entire thing. Um. It's 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: great for fondues griers um for French onion soup. Grier 58 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: is one of the two classic fondue cheeses along with 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: Evan tal and it's also traditional in the French coke monsour, 60 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: which is a grilled cheese sandwich with dijon mustard and 61 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: sliced ham. So good, they're so good a um. And yes, 62 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: more about the signs of multibility later. And it is 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: named for the Swiss town Griere, in the area where 64 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: the cheese was originally made and is still made there. 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: The name comes from either griere meaning forestry officer or 66 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: tax collectors, or groom meaning crane. And that is the 67 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: bird on the crest of the counts of La Griere. 68 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: So mysteries history. I also didn't know Swiss cheese and 69 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: this is the cheese with holes in it. Um. Is 70 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: sometimes called rat cheese because it's the cheese rats are 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: we seen with the cartoons? Didn't know that? We still 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: need to watch. I haven't forgotten about okay, all right, um, 73 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: but yeah, now that I think about it, Swiss cheese 74 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: is very confusing name. It is because there's more than 75 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: one cheese in Switzerland. Yes, and the grier from Switzerland 76 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,239 Speaker 1: does not have holes in it. Yeah. Um, the French 77 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: greer is required to have some holes, but yeah, Swiss 78 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: greair has few to know holes, right, so confusing nutrition wise, 79 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: it's cheese. I mean a serving size is an ounce. Yes, 80 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: that's a small all amount of cheese. Keep that in mind, 81 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: or give yourself a nice cheese treat, have a cheese giving, 82 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: have a cheese giving, go crazy with the cheese. Whiz 83 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: uh numbers. Yes. As of Switzerland produced twenty nine thousand 84 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: metric tons of green air per year, Friends produced about 85 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: three thousand metric tons. By the way, are a little 86 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: smaller than US tons, so it's more like US tons 87 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: anything more than like a pound. And I don't really 88 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: understand it. That's an unimaginable amount of cheese. To me, 89 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: that's a lot of cheese. It's a bunch of cheese. Um. 90 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: I also spent about three minutes trying to figure out 91 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: why there's a difference between metric and US tons, like 92 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: specifically why but yeah, in those three minutes, nothing became apparent. 93 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: Rabbit hole for a different day. Gree Air used to 94 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: be an umbrella term for a family of cheese is 95 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: in the rone Alpine region, made in a similar manner 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: but distinct and taste, including compte beaufort a bondans, French 97 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: career and Swiss career, but not anymore. No, no, no, no, no. 98 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: Who gets declaimed Greer? Oh we'll find out. But first 99 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break for a word 100 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, 101 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: thank you, And we're back with more food controversy. Oh yeah. 102 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: Greer's history goes back to medieval times, sometime around and 103 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: a town called Courier now Grier. The place is in Switzerland, 104 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: but it's on the border between Switzerland and France. And 105 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: because of this, ownership of Greer is disputed. Like we 106 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: mentioned before, several similar cheeses by a different name do 107 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: fall under this umbrella of Grier that originates in France 108 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: and one in the Austrian Alps. And I would like 109 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: to throw in this probably not true legend in here. 110 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: The story goes that in one Emperor Antonin the Pious 111 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: met his death via indigestion caused by over indulgence in green. 112 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: Probably not true. Probably not. They don't think that anyone 113 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: really created what we know as Greer until yeah. Like anyway, 114 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: fun story. Um, while it's much prized now, it first 115 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: started as a means of survival. Greer did and necessity, 116 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: and this region of Switzerland was and is very mountaineer, 117 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: and partly because of this, it was plagued with food scarcity. 118 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: But they did have cows for milking since the region 119 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: was mountainous and the cows grazed and pastures that were 120 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,559 Speaker 1: often uphill from where the peasants lived. And peasants didn't 121 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: have time to go marching up the mountains to milk 122 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: cows every day, so they need to figure out a 123 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: way to make the milk last longer. So they picked 124 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: a group of sense to be in charge of all 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: of the villages cattle and to make cheese from that milk. 126 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: And they had a couple of requirements for this cheese. First, 127 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: it had to last in the mountains for the summer. Second, 128 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: it had to be pretty sturdy, hard cheese and large 129 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: to make the rough journey back down the mountain. And 130 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: to meet these requirements, they needed a low moisture cheese. Problem. Yes, 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: they could only carry up so much salt to dry 132 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: out the cheese. Okay, so they came up with a 133 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: system system. It involved cutting the cheese oh dear oh 134 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: to produce a very tiny curd particle to reduce the moisture. 135 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: They then cooked the cheese at a high temperature while 136 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: constantly stirring it, and this process was draining for the makers, 137 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: like it was hot, it's physically demanding. The work paid off, though, 138 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: resulting in a full, fat, hard cheese that people quickly 139 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: fell in love with, so much so that words spread 140 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: and the Swiss makes were able to sell it throughout 141 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: the country and in France and Italy pretty soon after 142 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: they discovered it. Yeah, in the thirteenth century, they were 143 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: able to build a castle in the town that still 144 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: stands today. And as I understand it, you can take 145 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: a tour listeners, and it's lovely. Ladies have done it. 146 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: Let us know. Let us know. By the fifteenth century, 147 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: cheeses like Grier were called Vachelan, and it wasn't until 148 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century that Griere officially replaced that name, possibly 149 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: because this is when the region started to export career 150 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: for the first time. As more and more people tried it, 151 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: the demand grew and the word entered the dictionary Economy 152 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 1: Francais in seventeen sixty two. And along with all of 153 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 1: this we get the origins of a cheese controversy, as 154 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: concerns over its origin during the eighteenth and nineteenth century 155 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: lots of folks from Freebourg Switzerland moved to the Grier region, 156 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: making it bigger and expanding it out into France, and 157 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,239 Speaker 1: at the time, with no form of cheese copyright or trademark, 158 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: a lot of imitators started to enter the scene, and 159 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: Grier cheesemakers wanted to change that by defining what Grier 160 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: was in protecting the name. But as we've said, French 161 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: and Swiss Greair, we're in are difference. Sure, yes, the 162 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: French and Swiss both argued that they should have claim 163 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: to the Grier name. The French argued that their version 164 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: of Grier was more well known and that they should 165 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: get it because of that, while the Swiss argued that 166 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: they've been making it longer and greers from Switzerland. Several 167 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: meetings took place. Several meetings took place to debate the 168 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: issue of Grier in Madrid, in Paris, and nineteen thirty 169 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: in Rome. Oh my goodness. In ninety one, the International 170 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: stres Of Convention on Cheeses that sounds amazing by the way, 171 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: decreed that both France and Switzerland had the right to 172 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: use Grier. Despite the confusion around the fact there were 173 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: two distinct cheeses going by the same name, but this 174 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: did not in the tension between the two countries around 175 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: the cheese. No nope, no, no no. In nineteen fifty eight, 176 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: Comped Career was awarded an AOC abbelais j and jorgane 177 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: control are controlled appealation of origin within France UM and 178 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: AOC is meant to recognize regional products made using traditional 179 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: methods that have these traditional flavors and other characteristics that 180 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: are you know, good rights. Yeah. The Swiss were awarded 181 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: the controlled designation of Origin in Switzerland in two thousand one, 182 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: which similarly defines production processes and locations and product. But 183 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: France was not done. They applied for oh anybody help 184 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: me out Appealaisian jorgane protechet AOP yes with the European 185 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: Union and the AOP is an internationally recognized status that 186 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: means that no product from anywhere else can properly can 187 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: properly use the name. It's why sparkling wines outside of 188 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: Champagne can't be called Champagne exactly. The E looked into 189 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: it and eventually put out a report on the matter, 190 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: saying the French case was weak because their cheese was 191 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: aged outside of the area in which it's produced. I 192 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: know the French Greer Union dropped the case. They had 193 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 1: holes and the story. That's what the Guardian said about it. 194 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: No grape minds, grape minds do you think alike? In 195 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: the whole of Europe recognized the Swiss as the official 196 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: makers of Grier with up meaning comped. Grier became just 197 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: camped and before that, back in two thousand and four, 198 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: the Swiss helped that process along by developing a blueprint 199 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: of the acidifying bacteria that give Grier most of its 200 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: texture and flavor. Uh. The country has a center for 201 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: agricultural research affiliated with the government called Agroscope, And yeah, 202 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: Grier's bacterial culture was the first one that they mapped. Um. 203 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: It's now part of their AOP pros sus So, like, 204 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: if you're making green air in this approved way, you 205 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: can buy a bottle of the approved culture set or 206 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: like largely create your own the old fashioned way during 207 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: the process. But I love that they have this, this 208 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: is a product. Yeah. Um. They're also working on bacterial 209 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: tracers to verify the origin of any given piece of 210 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: cheese to make sure that you're not like like slipping 211 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: imitators in there, they won't have it. No. Um. The 212 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: one for Grier was still in trials as of which 213 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: is the last information I could find about its. Oh 214 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: I love it. Um. Yeah. There has been so much 215 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: scientific research into the microbiology and chemistry involved in greair 216 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 1: over the past three decades, probably because of all of 217 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: this curfuffle. Oh people they want to claim there Jesus, 218 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: they do. Cheese is important and I respect that they 219 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: are taking it as seriously as we are. I do too. 220 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: Speaking of seriousness, UM, I have some very serious melting 221 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: science to share with you. But first we've got one 222 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: more quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 223 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. So melting science. 224 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: A few science things influence how a cheese melts. All right, First, 225 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: you've got your moisture content, because the higher the moisture 226 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: content of a cheese, the more easily they'll melt because 227 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: of those water molecules sort of keeps some like elbow 228 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: room in among the proteins, preventing them from clumping up. Yeah. Uh. 229 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: Greer is what's called a low moisture cheese. As we 230 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: talked about before. That is it's around moisture. It's drier 231 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: than a fresh cheese like mozzarella, which can have up 232 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: to sixty moisture content, but more moist than a hard 233 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: cheese like parmesan, which is usually around like that's why 234 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: mozzarella will like ooze when you heat it, but parmesan 235 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: will tend to like crisp before really has a chance 236 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: to pool. Yeah. Green air has just enough water content 237 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: to to facilitate melting. Yeah. Part of moisture content is 238 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: due to whether a cheese has been aged or not. 239 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: But aging has another effect on how cheese melts. Um. 240 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: How it's proteins are connected. Okay, So so the primary 241 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: proteins and milk are called cassin's and when do you 242 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: make cheese, these these protein molecules link up tight in 243 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: these long chains in a fresh, springy cheese. Again like mozzarella, 244 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: those chains are are stretchy and tangly, which is why 245 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: mozzarella strings out in that like classic like pizza commercial 246 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: kind of way, like the like the teenage muntan ninto 247 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: turtle yeah yeah um or heck, like in a in 248 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: a stick of string cheese, yeah exactly, string out yeah um. 249 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: But as cheese ages, enzymes in the cheese slowly break 250 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: apart those long chains into smaller and smaller bits. And 251 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: that's why an aged cheese like cheddar or green air 252 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: melts into smooth puddles that stretch a little like mostly ouze. 253 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: And it's why they crumble into like those large pebbly 254 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: chunks when they're cool, as opposed to something like parmesan, 255 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: which will crumble into like we little dusty bits. The 256 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: third thing that influences how it cheese melts is its 257 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: chemical makeup. And okay, here's where it would be good 258 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: to do a rundown of what is happening to cheese 259 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: when it melts. Okay, so you apply heat to cheese, Yes, yes, 260 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: you do frequently. When the cheese reaches about nine degrees 261 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: fahrenheit that's about thirty two celsius, or a little under 262 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: human body temperature, the solid fats in the cheese will 263 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: start to melt into liquid oil. You might see beads 264 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: of oil on the surface of the cheese. Yeah. Um, 265 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: but it has to get a little bit hotter than 266 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: that for those casins that are really holding the cheese 267 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: together to give up the ghost you see um in 268 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: cheeses that are curdled using the milk coagulating animal protein rennet, 269 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: which is most cheeses. The sort of glue of calcium 270 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: atoms will help hold the casein proteins together in their chains, 271 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: but as the cheese heats, that glue dissolves and the 272 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: cheese just kind of collapses. Like like my friend has 273 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: this old lady cat, Mary uh, and her joints are 274 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: pretty good, but when she's done moving around, she doesn't 275 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: like circle and like sit and kind of like settle in. 276 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: She just flumps right over. It's real cute every time. 277 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: And for Mary, I've noticed that that happens after a 278 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: certain number of pets. But in cheese it happens at 279 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: different temperatures. In high moister mozzarella, it's kind of low. 280 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: It's around like a hundred thirty fahrenheight that's fifty four celsius. 281 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: It can be all the way up to a hundred 282 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: and eighty fahrenheight or eighty two celsius in hard parmesan, 283 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: and for gre air it's in the middle, like a 284 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty fahrenheight or sixty five celsius. But remember 285 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: that's in cheese. Is using renett, you can also curdle 286 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: cheese using various acids like vinegar or lemon juice, and 287 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: that's how a lot of fresh cheeses are made, like 288 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: a ricotta or pineir or casa blanco. As those cheeses 289 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: formed their their casein proteins will bind up with each 290 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: other um but there's too much acid for the calcium 291 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: atoms to to glue up among them, so when they heat, 292 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: there's no protective barrier to those proteins. The heat makes 293 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: the proteins bunch up, forcing out molecules of water, which 294 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: means that you've suddenly got a dry cheese which, instead 295 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: of melting, will just continue firming up and may even 296 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: brown or crisp. That's why you can simmer chunks of 297 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: pineer and like a curry or a creamy spinach sauce 298 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: and they'll hold their shape, or while you can straight 299 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: up pan fry a slice of casa blanco and it'll 300 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: brown instead of melting. And why ricotta and lasagna ravioli 301 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: is pillowy instead of ouzy, And part of why most 302 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: vegetarian and vegan cheeses are so totally crap melting because 303 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: although most rennet is lab created these days most vegetarian 304 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: friendly cheeses are more likely to be acid curdled um, 305 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: and the proteins involved may behave differently than the milk proteins. 306 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: But sure, sure, sure, anyway back to your air, um, 307 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: it actually has a little bit more acid than some 308 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: other cheeses. Of it's moisture in age, which dissolves some 309 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: of the calcium bonds and winds up making it a 310 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: little bit stringier than say, cheddar um. And yeah, it's 311 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: right in that happy medium of just enough moisture and 312 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: just enough aging, all of which means it melts to uey, 313 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: gooey perfection. Uh. Hat tip to David Yochim and Andre 314 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: schlass Over at Fine Cooking dot com for their excellent 315 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: explanation of all this, by the way, in their article 316 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: the Science of Melting Cheese. Oh yeah, oh yeah, and 317 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: we'll have to do a whole episode on fondue. Yeah 318 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: that was I kept like avoiding. Yeah, like there's too many, 319 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: there's too many. It was too much to talk about. Yeah, 320 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: I gotta focus. My mom used to do fondu every 321 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: New year, Isn't it just kind of cracks me up? 322 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: I don't know why, Yes, yeah, I don't understand why 323 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: why like fun do and drinking are always It's always like, 324 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: oh man, let's have a celebration with sparkling wine and 325 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: bond because boiling pots of oil eyes a great idea. 326 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: A few glasses always nothing could go wrong there, Lauren, 327 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: I don't know where you're talking about. This has given 328 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: me a wonderful pause to remember. I was a huge 329 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: my little Pony fan. Do you remember the ouze the 330 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: ouze ooze ouze. The ouze was like this big pollution 331 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: villain and it was destroying my little pony home room. 332 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: I do very vaguely remember that, but it was like 333 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: an ouze of gray air. Oh no, more shirts, more 334 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: shirt ideas day? Yeah, okay, all right, mark and marking 335 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: that one down. We're essentially just making shirts that only 336 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: appeal to us, and I'm not too upset about it. 337 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: If I can get up my little Pony Greer shirt, 338 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: that's it. That's y. Yeah, best day. I don't know 339 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: what else I can do. I don't know. Well, uh, 340 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: this just about brings us to the end of our 341 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: Greer episode, but it brings us to ESK. I guess 342 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: one day I'll understand. I guess that's why I was 343 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: so confused. Really, this is just a back door. This 344 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: whole show is a setup, and it's just me trying 345 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: to sell rat. It's along. It's a long game. I 346 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure I've not succeeded 347 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: at all, but that's great because it means I get 348 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: to keep making episodes. Valorie wrote, I recently enjoyed listening 349 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: to your podcast about vehicles shaped like giant food, and 350 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: so I'd like to share with you this picture of 351 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: a vehicle that my family ran across when we were 352 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: visiting NYC. Sup was the LLL Bean Bootmobile that we 353 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: found in Central Park. I had never heard of this, 354 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: but there it was in the park. Who knew. I 355 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: live about forty five minutes from the Henry Ford Museum 356 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: in Dearborn, Michigan, which was mentioned in your podcast, So 357 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: I visited its vintage Oscar Meyer wienermobile many times. Right 358 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: next to it is a human sized hot dog bun 359 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: that kids can climb into and add giant fabric hot 360 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: dog toppings. Fun. If you ever get a chance to 361 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: visit that museum, it is an interesting place and very 362 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: different from any other museum I have ever seen. Henry 363 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: Ford went collecting famous buildings such as the one where 364 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison invented the light bulb and the one where 365 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: the White Brothers invented flight. Plus there's a building about 366 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: the Hinds fifty two varieties of pickles, and you can 367 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: walk through these famous buildings and green Fille Village there. 368 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Um and the picture, well, it's a giant boot. It's 369 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: a giant boot with tires at the bottom. Uh. And 370 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: the license plate the vanity played on front says bigfoot. Uh. Yeah, 371 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: I recommend looking up the picture. Yeah, it's a giant 372 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: mud boot. I love it. I do too. I would 373 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: be very thrilled to see that out in the wild. Yeah, 374 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: it's a little bit creepy, as extremely large boots tend 375 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, what if you were like asleep in 376 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: your your bed was like you were on the same 377 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: level as a window and the boot just went by 378 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: and the night Yeah that might nightmarish stuff The stuff 379 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: Nimers Jenny wrote. I heard Lauren mentioned her love of 380 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: a good sandwich that contains fries and had to give 381 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: you a heads up on one that would make a 382 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: great episode, The Horseshoe. The Horseshoe Sandwich is the full 383 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: size and a smaller portion is often called a pony shoe. 384 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: It's an open face sandwich made on Texas toast, tapped 385 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: with two Burger patties for the full size, one for 386 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: the pony size, then a Lawyer French fries, and finally 387 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: a Welsh rare bit cheese sauce. It's a regional dish 388 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: in and around spring Told, Illinois, and can be found 389 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: in a radius of about fifty miles around that town. 390 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that sounds that sounds really great. I want 391 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: to I want to eat that food. Okay, road trip, 392 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: road trip, road trip time. But in the meantime, Thanks 393 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: to both of them for writing to us. You two 394 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: can write to us. Our email is Hello at savor 395 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: pod dot com, or you can find us on social media. 396 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: We are on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at savor pod. 397 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: We do hope to hear from you. Savor is a 398 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcasts 399 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: to my heart Radio, you can visit the heart Radio app, 400 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 401 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: Thank you as always to our superproducers Andrew Howard and 402 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: Dylan Bagan. Thank you to you for listening and we 403 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: hope that lots more good things are coming your way.