1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: On April twentieth, twenty twenty three, Elon Musk unverified the Pope. 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: I bet that was a sentence you never thought you'd 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: hear on this podcast. Musk, the eccentric billionaire who bought 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: the website formerly known as Twitter seemingly for the Lafts, 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: had changed his policy on verification. Previously, verification had been 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: subject to a rigorous evaluation to verify the accounts of 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: public figures and organizations, but now the coveted blue check 10 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: was available to anyone with eight dollars a month to spare. 11 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: The end result was that, at least temporarily, a blue 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: check mark or public figures and organizations no longer conferred 13 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: any meaningful marker of identity. Those unwilling to pay for it, 14 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: like Pope Francis, were simply unceremoniously stripped of their blue check. 15 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: If you were, like me, someone who often found yourself 16 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: on the history nerd side of Twitter, you might have 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: noticed a couple of odd terms trending as the verification 18 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: mayhem unfolded, namely, Auvignon and Western Chisholm. In the early 19 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: fourteenth century, Pope Clement the fifth had moved his court 20 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: from Rome to Avignon in what is now France. The 21 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: papacy would remain there unchallenged for over seventy years and 22 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: through six more popes, until Gregory the eleventh moved his 23 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: court back to Rome in thirteen seventy six. What does 24 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: this have to do with Elon musk ask The answer 25 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: lies in a third trending term, antipope. When Gregory the 26 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: eleventh died in thirteen seventy eight, the College of Cardinals 27 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: in Rome set about their usual business of electing a 28 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: new pope, which they did Urban the sixth, But some 29 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: cardinals opposed the move from Avignon back to Rome, so 30 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: they elected a pope of their own in Avignon, who 31 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 2: would become known as the anti Pope, Clement the seventh, 32 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: though they just called him Pope Clement the seventh. A 33 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 2: total of three antipopes would be elected and reign from 34 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: Avignon and two more from Pisa. From June fourteen o 35 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: nine to May fourteen fifteen. There were popes in all 36 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: three cities, each believing wholeheartedly that he alone was the 37 00:02:54,919 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: world's singular direct line to God. Twitter story argued mostly jokingly, 38 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: that Musk's decision to unverify Pope Francis was akin to 39 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: a modern day Western chism. With the Pope in Rome 40 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: stripped of the mark that made it clear he was 41 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: the one and only Pope, Musk was leaving the door 42 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: open for someone else to claim the papal throne, at 43 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: least on Twitter. The brief verification of Pope Francis was 44 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: many things, a technological oversight, a notable day in Twitter's 45 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: slow downfall, an opportunity to laugh, perhaps nervously, at the 46 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: idea of Elon Musk accidentally taking control of the Catholic Church. 47 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: But it was not, in fact a crisis in the Vatican. 48 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: The papalexperts of Twitter dot com, however, were quick to 49 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: point out that a Twitter verification schism, funny as it was, 50 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: would not have even given us the first modern antipope. 51 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: In the last sixty or so years, at least ten 52 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: men have claimed the Holy See, each girded by a 53 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: variable number of followers but an equally fervent belief in 54 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: the righteousness of their pontificate. Most of these were clergy 55 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: associated with specific offshoots of the Catholic Church before they 56 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: claimed an appointment to the papal throne. But Twitter that 57 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: day was almost entirely focused on a man named David Bowden, 58 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 2: a former real estate agent and furniture maker originally from Oklahoma, who, 59 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: in the Year of Our Lord nineteen ninety decided that 60 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: he was the only one who could lead the church 61 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: in the right direction. I'm Danas Schwartz, and this is 62 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: noble blood. 63 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: In order for. 64 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: Any religious organisation to endure, it has to strike a delicate, 65 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: mysterious balance between holding on to its central tenants and 66 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: traditions and updating itself as the world around it inevitably changes. 67 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: In January nineteen fifty nine, when Pope John the twenty 68 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: third announced his intention to convene a second Vatican Council, 69 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: the world had been irrevocably changed by the horrors of 70 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: the world wars, by the trepidation of the rebuilding and 71 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: globalization that followed, and by the tension that came with 72 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: the brewing Cold War. We're about to get into some 73 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: complicated religious bureaucracy. So before we get any further, I 74 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: figure it would be helpful to explain some terms. The 75 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: Second Vatican Council, or Vatican two as it often called, 76 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: was an ecumenical council, which is the term they used 77 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: to describe a gathering of all bishops and other church 78 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: authorities during which they consider and rule on questions of doctrine, administration, 79 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: church practice, and the like. Despite its name, Vatican two 80 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: was not the second ever ecumenical council, just the second 81 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: to take place in the Vatican City. There have been 82 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: twenty seven ecumenical councils in total, dating all the way 83 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: back to the fourth century CE, with different sects of 84 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: Christianity accepting the conclusions of some and not others as 85 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: they saw fit. The Catholic Church accepts twenty one of them. 86 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: When Pope John called the Ecumenical Council that would be 87 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: known as Vatican two, there had not been an ecumenical 88 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: council in nearly one hundred years since the First Vatican 89 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: Council had concluded in eighteen seventy. It took roughly three 90 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: years to prepare for the Second Vatican Council. Before putting 91 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: together the council, the Vatican first needed to conduct an 92 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: evaluation of the Catholic world from bishops to the faculty 93 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: of Catholic universities. Thousands of individuals and institutions replied with 94 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: their wishes for the future of the Church, and immediately 95 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: the conflict was clear. This Ecumenical Council would be divided. 96 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: Which we those who believed it was the duty of 97 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: the Church to remain steadfast to resist change, because to 98 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: change would be to give in to the pressure from 99 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: an increasingly secularized world, and those who believed equally strongly 100 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: that change was necessary for the Church to continue to 101 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: thrive in that world. The Council opened on October eleventh, 102 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two, and met in four sessions over the 103 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: course of a little over three years. Pope John the 104 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: twenty third died in nineteen sixty three, so the final 105 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: three sessions were overseen by his successor, Paul sixth. 106 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 3: He closed the. 107 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: Council on December eighth, nineteen sixty five. Vatican two is 108 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: remembered as the most significant event in the history of 109 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: the Catholic Church since the Reformation. It enacted change to 110 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: an extent unseen in the Church's history and on a 111 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: global scale not possible in prior centuries. To read out 112 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: and explain every change would take too much of our time, 113 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 2: but some changes that might stand out. This was the 114 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: moment the Church stopped conducting liturgy in Latin, and when 115 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 2: priests began to be allowed to preach facing the congregation 116 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: for the first time in hundreds of years. Lay people 117 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: were widely allowed to take communion under both kinds, that is, 118 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: they could receive both consecrated bread and the wine that 119 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: previously had been limited to members of the clergy. Of course, 120 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: these were only a few of many changes, some of 121 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: which went to matters of much greater importance to the 122 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: doctrine than did the issue of in which direction a 123 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,479 Speaker 2: priest could stand. But it's hard to understate how important 124 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: a shift Vatican two was for the Catholic world and 125 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: how divisive. The conclusion of the Second Vatican Council and 126 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: all the change that accompanied it did little to quell 127 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 2: the dissension that had been bubbling over the past several years, 128 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,359 Speaker 2: if not longer. Many people, both lay and clergy, continue 129 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: to believe steadfastly in traditionalist Catholicism, and some went so 130 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: far as to espouse the belief that by changing the 131 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: Church and its practices, hope John the thirteenth committed heresies 132 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 2: that effectively nullified his nineteen fifty eight appointment to the papacy. 133 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: This belief became known as set of a Cantism, coming 134 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: from the Latin phrase set of a cante, meaning with 135 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: the seat being empty. The phrase was generally used to 136 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: indicate the interregnal periods of the papacy after one pope 137 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: had died but before a new one was elected. The 138 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: set of a Cantist's adoption of the term went to 139 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: their central claim that the nullification of Pope John's appointment 140 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: meant that, in fact, the Holy See had remained vacant 141 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: since nineteen fifty eight. But what do you do when 142 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: you believe the Holy See to be vacant but the 143 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: Vatican doesn't agree? Some set of a Cantists saw an 144 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: obvious solution to the problem of the empty papal throne 145 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: to take matters into their own hands and elect a 146 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: pope themselves. David Bodden's life started out about as unremarkably 147 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 2: as a life can start out for someone who would 148 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: later claim to be the rightful pope for decades. David 149 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: was born in nineteen fifty nine, the very year Pope 150 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: John the thirteenth called for an ecumenical council in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. 151 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: His parents, Kennett and Clara, also known as Ticky Bowden, 152 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: were devout Conservative Catholics, and Vatican Two, which concluded when 153 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: David was only six years old, felt like a betrayal 154 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: of their faith. The result was a traditionalist upbringing for 155 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: David and his brother Brian that sowed the seeds of 156 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: set of Acantism. Eventually, the Boden family became involved with 157 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: the Society of Saint Pius the tenth an international fraternity 158 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 2: of traditionalist Catholic priests, which was founded in nineteen seventy 159 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: by Archbishop Marcel Lefevre, who had been one of the 160 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: leading clerical voices of opposition during Vatican Two. The Society 161 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: acknowledged the Pope in Rome, but took enough issue with 162 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: the reforms of Vatican Two that it was still considered 163 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: schismatic by the Vatican. David Baden entered the Society's seminary 164 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven, moving to Eccombe, Switzerland to begin 165 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 2: his spiritual training, before transferring to a location in Michigan 166 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: later that year. By the time David was dismissed from 167 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: the seminary in nineteen seventy eight. 168 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 3: It's possible he had heard. 169 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: Of someone named Clemente Domingazigomes, known to his followers as 170 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: Pope Gregory. The seventeenth Gomez, was a controversial Spanish bishop 171 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: who proclaimed that Christ had come to him in a 172 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: series of visions, promising that he would be pope and 173 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: return the church to its former glory. Gomez cobbled together 174 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: his own college of cardinals and crowned himself on August fifteenth, 175 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, in Seville, Spain, founding what would become 176 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: known as the Palmarian Christian Church. David Bowden couldn't have 177 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: been particularly satisfied by that papal alternative. The Palmrian Christian 178 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: Church has long been widely considered something of a cult, 179 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 2: but that would have been the first significant example in 180 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: David's lifetime of some kind of conclavist adjacent movement. A 181 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: little bit more messy theology, there are several different distinct 182 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 2: kinds of antipopes, and the differences really boil down to 183 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: how those antipopes came into their claims. Many modern antipopes 184 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: simply claim that God told them that they were pope. 185 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: Such was the case in the Apostles of Infinite Love, 186 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: an early traditionalist Catholic movement that began in the thirties 187 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: but picked up some momentum following Vatican Two. 188 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: Its first two popes. 189 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: Claimed that they had been mystically made so without any 190 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: need for an election or outside consideration. That's not entirely 191 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: dissimilar to what Domengezi Gomez did, and that would become 192 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 2: clear that he didn't actually care much for the practice 193 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: of electing a pope by conclave when in nineteen ninety 194 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: five he suppressed the cardinalate and single handedly appointed his 195 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: own successor. But in the decades since Vatican Two, many 196 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: had to genuinely believe that although the throne of Saint 197 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: Peter was vacant, the process by which a pope was 198 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: chosen was still important. One needed a conclave to elect 199 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: a new head of church. These people became known as Conclavists, 200 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: espousing the belief that not only was a conclave important, 201 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 2: but that one could or even should, convene their own 202 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: conclave to elect a rightful pope outside of the Vatican. 203 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: Despite David's dismissal from the Seminary, which he maintained was 204 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: due to infighting in the institution rather than any wrongdoing 205 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: on his part. David Bodden initially remained loyal to the 206 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: Society of Saint Pius the Tenth. The Boden family moved 207 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: to Saint Mary's, Kansas, where the society ran Saint Mary's 208 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: Academy and Collegevid's brother Brian Bodden, attended school there, and 209 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: David took a job, hoping to prove himself worthy of 210 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: readmission to the Seminary, but in nineteen eighty one, several 211 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: years and a failed seminary application later, David became dissolutioned 212 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: by the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth and he 213 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: struck out on his own, with his family quickly following suit. 214 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: Over the next few years, the Boddends became drawn to 215 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: the set of vacantist movement, and soon they believed firmly 216 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: that every pope after Pious the twelfth was a heretic 217 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: unfit for the papal throne, because the Society of Saint 218 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: Pius the Tenth, though traditionalist, still acknowledged the Pope in Rome, 219 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: who by this time was John Paul the Second. The 220 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: Bodens deemed that society heretical too. As David continued to 221 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 2: study under his own guidance and become more deeply involved 222 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 2: with the set of a Cantist movement, or at least 223 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: as involved as one could be without being ordained, he 224 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: began to reach a new conclusion that perhaps there was 225 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: a solution to the problem of the empty papal throne, 226 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: and before long another conclusion that perhaps he was the 227 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: one to fill it. In nineteen eighty seven, David began 228 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: campaigning for lack of a better word. According to his writings, 229 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: which he uploaded to the online ebook service script, it 230 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: was in September of that year that he received a 231 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: letter that would solidify his conviction that a new pope 232 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 2: must be elected. The letter was otherwise unspecified, but he 233 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: claimed that it included a quote from what he described 234 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: as the only Vatican Council, that is, the first Vatican Council, 235 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: which stated that Saint Peter quote would have perpetual successors 236 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 2: in the papacy until the end of time end quote. 237 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: Apparently from that letter, David immediately knew that a new 238 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: pope must somehow be elected, and he decided to take. 239 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: Up the cause personally. 240 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 2: Around this time, David connected with Teresa stanfill Ben's, a 241 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: Denver based woman who shared his convictions around the state 242 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 2: of the Catholic Church and the need to call a conclave. Together, 243 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: the two of them wrote a book straightforwardly titled Will 244 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: the Catholic Church Survive the Twentieth Century. The book laid 245 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: out numerous objections to Vatican two and their thoughts on 246 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: how the Church might be saved. One such thought stands 247 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: out because the actual college remained faithful to someone who 248 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: they believed was a false pope. David and Theresa championed 249 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: and apparent precedent within the Catholic Church for the election 250 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: of a pope by quote true Catholics, that is, laypeople, 251 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: instead of the usual College of Cardinals, which generally consists 252 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: of senior clerical officials in the Vatican. With the path 253 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: forward finally clear, David began planning to hold a papal election. 254 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: He reportedly sent over two hundred copies of his and 255 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 2: Theesa's book to every set of a Cantist priest and 256 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 2: set of a Cantist publication he could get a hold of, 257 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 2: hoping to inflate the number of voters at the election 258 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: and thereby its legitimacy. He was hopeful that at least 259 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 2: one ordained priest would come and vote in his homespun 260 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: papal election. A few, he said, expressed interest, but ultimately, 261 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: in the end none came. After months of planning and 262 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: a handful of delays, putting together a papal election on 263 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: your own is a logistical challenge, after all, the big 264 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: day finally rolled around on July sixteenth, nineteen ninety, a 265 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: day which David would later note was serendipitously also the 266 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, a liturgical feast 267 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: which had come under some scrutiny from the Vatican following 268 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 2: Vatican two. With no perish or church to speak of, 269 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: David Bowden convened the conclave in the thrift store his 270 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: family owned in Bellevue, Kansas. Out of second hand furniture, 271 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: the conclave made the best approximation they could of a chapel, 272 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: homemade pews padded with leopard print cushions, papal throne all 273 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: atop some classic nineties shag carpeting. The conclave was composed 274 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: of six lay believers, including Teresa Stanfill Ben's Kennett and 275 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: Tickie Bowden, David's parents, and David himself, along with a 276 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: couple who traveled from Michigan for the occasion. It only 277 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: took one round of voting by secret ballad before it 278 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: was decided David Bowden would fill the papal throne that had, 279 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: according to the conclave, been vacant for over thirty years 280 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 2: since Pius the twelfth died the year before David's birth. 281 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: The newly crowned pope chose the name Michael first, after 282 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: Saint Michael, the archangel, who was said to have battled 283 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 2: the devil himself and defended the faith against heresy. In 284 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 2: a statigy shaky blurry video taken on the day of 285 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: the election, the videographer, presumably David's father, shows David kneeling 286 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: before their homemade altar in a white skull cap, a 287 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: white stole with crosses on it, and a robe that 288 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: looked like it may have once been a tablecloth. In 289 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: a charming, somewhat mid Atlantic accent, David's father, Kenneth declares, 290 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: habay moose Popham, we have a pope, And then, like 291 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: all proud dads have done since the invention of the 292 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 2: video camera, he struggles to figure out how to zoom 293 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: in on the new leader of his faith. A farmhouse 294 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: for a palace, an attic for a chapel, a pickup 295 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: truck for a popemobile. In twenty eleven, an independent documentary 296 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: was made about Pope Michael, detailing his rise to the 297 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: thrift shop throne and the small but fervent movement that 298 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: he had gathered around him. The film offers an intimate 299 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: portrait of Pope Michael that one could never dream of 300 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: getting for, say, Pope Francis. We see him eating dinner 301 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: at home in Kansas with his mother Ticky, and his 302 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 2: seminarian and papal secretary, Phil Friedel, a young man from 303 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: Chicago who had left a girlfriend and an engineering education 304 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: behind after corresponding with Pope Michael and feeling called to 305 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: his church. We see the Christmas lights Michael used to 306 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 2: decorate his workspace, slash chapel in his mother's attic, the 307 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 2: old computer he used to email with his followers and 308 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: update his website, and the aviator Sonny's off white trench 309 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: coat combo he wore when he ran errands. We also 310 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: hear about the struggles Pope Michael has faced over the years. 311 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 2: A primary problem was that he was unknown ordained for 312 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: the first twenty one years of his reign. He never 313 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: did gain acceptance to a seminary after his dismissal in 314 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, and he couldn't very well do so 315 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: while both rejecting the Vatican and claiming. 316 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 3: To already be pope. 317 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 2: But his technically lay status meant that he could not 318 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 2: perform any of the traditional duties of a pope or 319 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: a priest for that matter. That meant, among other things, 320 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: that he could not offer Mass. So in order to 321 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: preach his gospel and grow his following pope, Michael turned 322 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: to the newly minted Internet and started a blog, which 323 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: he called Vatican in Exile. He used it to maintain 324 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 2: contact with his followers, who remained small in number but 325 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: who were based around the world. He also used it 326 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: to solicit new followers, to criticiz size the Vatican, and 327 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: to try to combat those who would seek to delegitimize 328 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 2: his reign. For the entirety of Michael's reign, his blog 329 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 2: and the Internet in general would be the primary. 330 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: Tool of the papacy. 331 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: I feel like I need to mention now if you 332 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: found yourself charmed by David's quirky underdog story. We cannot 333 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: forget that Pope Michael fancied himself a traditionalist Catholic pope. 334 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 2: His blog, along with his other writings, was full of 335 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: vitriol against queer and trans people. It was full of 336 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: anti choice tirades, and, particularly after COVID hit anti vaccine misinformation. 337 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Pope Michael claimed to finally have been 338 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 2: ordained and consecrated as a bishop by Bishop Robert b Arneson, 339 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 2: who was part of the quote independent Catholic movement that 340 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: saw clergy and laity break away from Rome and ordain 341 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: and consecrate clergy without Vatican approval. It was an ordination 342 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: that would never have stood up to scrutiny by Church officials, 343 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 2: but it should be clear by now how little that 344 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: would have mattered to Michael. Soon after, Michael wrote and 345 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: published another book titled fifty four Years That Changed the 346 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: Catholic Church nineteen fifty eight to twenty twelve, in which 347 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: he retold his own story and espoused his beliefs on 348 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 2: a wide range of doctrinal issues and perceived heresies and 349 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: sins by the Church in the Vatican not to mention 350 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: the secular world at large. The other great struggle of 351 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: Pope Michael's reign, perhaps unsurprisingly, was near constant criticism. He 352 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 2: dealt with pushback not only from modern Catholics, but also 353 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: from his fellow set of Accantists, and even from former 354 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: supporters and members of his own family. Teresa Stanfill Bens, 355 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 2: who had made up one sixth of Michael's papal conclave, 356 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 2: had denounced his papacy as a cult of personality several 357 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: years prior to the twenty eleven documentary, including him on 358 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 2: her list of anti popes on her blog. David's own brother, 359 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 2: Brian Bawden, had been shocked by the election itself, and 360 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 2: was quoted in the Miami Herald shortly after the election saying, 361 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 2: oh my god, no, I don't know what to think. 362 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: I don't follow the church in Rome. I don't go 363 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 2: around electing popes either. We don't hear much about Brian 364 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 2: after Pope Michael's election. From outside his circle, Pope Michael 365 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 2: received ridicule from pro Vatican Catholics, from non Catholics, and 366 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: of course from supporters of other anti popes. From a 367 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 2: mixture of these, he received his many nicknames, the junk 368 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 2: store Pope, the second hand Pope, and the thrift shop Pope, 369 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 2: among others. He also claimed to have received many threats 370 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: over the years, with one particularly colorful one promising to 371 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: cut out his tongue and ship it to then Pope 372 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 2: John Paul the Second. The ridicule never seemed to bother 373 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: Michael much. In one interview, he equipped quote they called 374 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 2: Jesus a kook too, though he did file a police 375 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: report after that tongue threat. In July twenty twenty two, 376 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 2: the Vatican in Exile Twitter account shared that Pope Michael 377 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: had been admitted to a hospital in Kansas City, Missouri, 378 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: for emergency surch injury and was in a coma. He 379 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: never recovered and died on August second, twenty twenty two, 380 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: at the age of sixty three. In another interview released 381 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: shortly after his death, he claimed that his constant efforts 382 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: online had earned his church over one hundred loyal members. 383 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: David Bodden's death did not make the waves one might 384 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: expect from the death of a pope. His obituary is 385 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: a curious testament to the precariousness of his position. He 386 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: was named only as father David Bowden, and his obituary 387 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: never explicitly mentioned his claim to the papacy, naming him 388 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: instead as a member of the Saint Helen's Catholic Mission 389 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: Church in Topeka. It also gave him the titles of 390 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: President of the Oakland Neighborhood Improvement Association and members member 391 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: of the Citizen Advisory Committee. Nevertheless, the obituary did note 392 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 2: that he would be lying in state at Saint Helen's 393 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: in honor not afforded to just anyone, not even regular 394 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 2: quote unquote priests. In death as in life, David embodied 395 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 2: many of the tensions and contradictions that defined the Catholic 396 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: world after Vatican Two. The papacy in the Vatican, as 397 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: we all know, continued on after Pope Michael's death, with 398 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: Francis and the cardinals and the bishops and most of 399 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 2: the world ignoring him as they always had, But in 400 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: the eyes of somewhere between thirty and one hundred believers, 401 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 2: the throne of Saint Peter was vacant. Once again. That's 402 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: the story of David Bodden's peculiar and contested papacy. But 403 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: stick around after a brief sponsor break to hear about 404 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: how his followers have continued his mission normally here at 405 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: Noble Blood. Our episode's focus on a past not always distant, 406 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: but usually far back enough that by the time we 407 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: press record there aren't any updates. As in everything, David 408 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: Bodden's story is a bit of an anomaly. His church 409 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: never had very many followers, but he had some, and 410 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: they have continued to try to honor his legacy and 411 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: hold his church together in the time since his death. 412 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: While this episode was being written in July twenty twenty three, 413 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: they did so by doing exactly what Pope Michael would 414 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: have wanted, by convening a co enclave and electing a 415 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: new pope. Their conclave began on July twenty fifth, twenty 416 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: twenty three. The Vatican in Exile newsletter reported the venue 417 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: as being in Vienna, Austria, but several news outlets claimed 418 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: the event took place in Kansas. The conclave consisted of 419 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: two American priests and two bishops. The sessions of the 420 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: conclave were chaired by Pope Michael's Archbishop Rhellia Martinez, who 421 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: had brought his Pope's movement to his home parish in 422 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: the Philippines. It's unclear whether Martinez was counted among those 423 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: in the conclave, or whether his presence brought their number 424 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: up to five. This new conclave elected an unnamed priest 425 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 2: as their new pope rather quickly, but he didn't pick 426 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: up the phone when they called to tell him. 427 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 3: He was the new Pope. 428 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: Martinez chose to give him a forty eight hour grace 429 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 2: period to accept the papacy, during which said priest did 430 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: eventually call them back, but unfortunately rejected the position, just 431 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: as their counterparts in the Vatican would have done. The 432 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: conclave got back to work to elect someone else, and 433 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 2: just like David Bowden did before him. On July twenty ninth, 434 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, Rhelio Martinez chaired the session that saw 435 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: a handful of people, presumably including himself, elect him to 436 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 2: the papacy. News outlets reported that his return to the 437 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: Philippines as Pope was celebrated with a motorcade and growing 438 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: number of fervent followers, not to mention threats of excommunication 439 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: from local Vatican officials. Though Pope Francis has yet to 440 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: acknowledge his competitor in any way. Since Martinez's election, he 441 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: has taken up the task of picking up where David 442 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: Bowden left off, leading his faithful, building his following, and 443 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: raging against the Vatican and its perceived heresies and the 444 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 2: pontifical name he chose that would be his Holiness, Pope Michael. 445 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 3: The Second. 446 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and 447 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is created and hosted 448 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: by me Dana Shwort, with additional writing and researching by 449 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: Hannah Johnston, hannah's Wick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. 450 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and 451 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: rima Il Kahali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive 452 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams and Matt From. For more 453 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 454 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.