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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Yeah, so I had a conversation with

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Speaker 1: dad last night and he is leaving. He and my

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Speaker 1: stepmom are leaving on this four day hunting trip, and

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Speaker 1: so he took me aside and told me, he said,

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Speaker 1: here's the thirty eight. He's got a loaded thirty eight

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Speaker 1: and another gun, and then he's got He's like in

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Speaker 1: Dirty Harry lives here. He's got his dirty Hairy gun.

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Speaker 1: There's three fully loaded weapons sitting there. And I had

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Speaker 1: a plan if anyone came to the house and came

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Speaker 1: up the stairs. They know where we live too, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we just decided to stay together. We have a full

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Speaker 1: bar here and also some guns that are loaded, so

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Speaker 1: that was important. It's been about a week since our

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Speaker 1: conversation with Chris. My dad and stepmom have left for

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Speaker 1: a hunting trip and left us with my dad's guns

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Speaker 1: in case anyone comes by the house. On top of that,

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Speaker 1: James has had to leave town for another assignment. So

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Speaker 1: for now, it's just Taylor and me and out there somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's killer. In September of two thousand and four, twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old Rebecca Gould was brutally murdered in a

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Speaker 1: remote area of the Arkansas Ozarks. Fourteen years later, her

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Speaker 1: killer is still out there. I've come back to Mountain

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Speaker 1: View with one mission to get justice for Rebecca. I'm

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Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. After he retired,

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Speaker 1: my dad built a big country home that's a replica

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Speaker 1: of one of Thomas Jefferson's houses. The French colonial White

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Speaker 1: Column Plantation House sits on top of a mountain, overlooking

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Speaker 1: Mountain View. Architecturally it's beautiful, but because it overlooks the town,

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Speaker 1: everyone knows where we live. It's quiet here at night,

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Speaker 1: dead quiet, except for the sound of an old ticking

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Speaker 1: grandfather clock. After we locked the gate, we hunkered down

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Speaker 1: in my war room upstairs to take another look at

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Speaker 1: the murder board. In this whole region, I mean, we

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Speaker 1: saw my storm. There's a huge drug problem, and I

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Speaker 1: get why there's this big focus on drugs, but in

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Speaker 1: this case, and again, you know, everything has to be

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Speaker 1: taken case by case. In this case, it really wasn't

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Speaker 1: a factor, or doesn't seem to have been. I think

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Speaker 1: that they genuinely thought that Chris might have had something

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Speaker 1: to do with it, and also perhaps the thought was, well,

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Speaker 1: he's a bad guy. He deals drugs, he's on drugs.

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Speaker 1: It was just really easy to sort of slot him

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Speaker 1: into that and say, maybe he did it, And we

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Speaker 1: really don't even know why he got accused of it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I still don't understand why. I mean, and granted the

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Speaker 1: police aren't sharing evidence, so there could be evidence we

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Speaker 1: don't know about, but I mean, I really have no

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Speaker 1: idea why he was named as a suspect other than

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in my head. I'm always thinking like,

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Speaker 1: how could it have happened? The only thing that I

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Speaker 1: have found or that I can recall that would really

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Speaker 1: put him there is when Rebecca called Jesse saying that

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Speaker 1: she needed a new alternator, but he couldn't provide that,

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Speaker 1: so she called Chris. So if she did call Chris,

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Speaker 1: and if Chris was in her recent contact, that is

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Speaker 1: literally the only reason that I can think of that

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Speaker 1: made the cops even go towards him, right, And but

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Speaker 1: that's still not I still don't understand where they went

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Speaker 1: from there too. He did it because he has a

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Speaker 1: bad rep Yeah, I think so, unless there's some major

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Speaker 1: piece that we're missing, I think so, because if there's

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Speaker 1: no DNA evidence that implicates him. And again That's another thing.

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Speaker 1: Without going off on a tangent again, that really troubles

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Speaker 1: me about this case is that there is a ton

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Speaker 1: There was a ton of evidence in the house and

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Speaker 1: a lot of blood. So why was there no usable forensics?

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Speaker 1: Why was there no usable DNA evidence? You know, if

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Speaker 1: Chris did this, why is there no DNA? Is it

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Speaker 1: because it was messed up or because it wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: We've explored the police theory that Chris killed Rebecca in

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Speaker 1: a drug fueled rage and that his friend JB helped

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Speaker 1: him clean up. We've concluded that this doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: It seems like Chris and JB were in the frame

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Speaker 1: because a they were both involved in drugs and b

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Speaker 1: they had both talked to Rebecca recently. And since we

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Speaker 1: saw the autopsy report, it looks more and more like

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's murder was unplanned and a crime of passion, but

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Speaker 1: not a drug fueled rage. I don't buy the theory

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Speaker 1: that there is no DNA from Chris because he got lucky.

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Speaker 1: Chris's DNA is not there because Chris was never there.

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Speaker 1: But if they he didn't kill Rebecca, who did? Now

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Speaker 1: we need to go back to another rumor we've heard

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Speaker 1: about the murder that a female or a group of

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Speaker 1: people including a female, killed Rebecca, and that group's centers

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Speaker 1: around Jennifer. Jennifer is the common thread of everyone in

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Speaker 1: the group, and at the time of Rebecca's murder, Jennifer

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Speaker 1: was dating Rebecca's ex boyfriend, Justin and she was pregnant

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Speaker 1: with his child at the time. Jennifer was also good

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Speaker 1: friends with Cindy, who was dating Chris. She knew JB

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Speaker 1: too because he lived in her rental house, and also

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Speaker 1: Jennifer knew Casey from working at Sonic. Several witnesses have

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Speaker 1: told us that Jennifer got into an argument with Rebecca

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Speaker 1: over Justin on at least one occasion. We've heard sometimes

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Speaker 1: the fights turned physical, and Rebecca was not the kind

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Speaker 1: of girl to back down from a fight. Several members

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Speaker 1: of Rebecca's family have mentioned feeling like Jennifer may have

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Speaker 1: been involved in some way. The police say that Jennifer

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Speaker 1: had an alibi for the day of the murder. They

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Speaker 1: claimed she was shopping and say there are credit card

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Speaker 1: receipts to back this up. But again, since they aren't

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Speaker 1: sharing any information with us, we can't rule her out

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Speaker 1: until we verify the information ourselves. Oh hey, it's it's

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Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. Oh, I forgot sure. This is Shirley, Rebecca's mother.

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Speaker 1: The last time she talked to her daughter was on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: the day before Rebecca was murdered. Rebecca was in Harp's

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Speaker 1: grocery store with Casey, and as she chatted with her mother,

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Speaker 1: she told her that she was running out of minutes

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Speaker 1: and would call her back. It's a call that Shirley

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Speaker 1: never received. Were you reading a mont how Raymond's side there?

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Speaker 1: And I'm looking for Rebecca all day long duringut the day,

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Speaker 1: and we were stopping traffic on the road in front

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Speaker 1: of that where that trailer was and asking people if

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Speaker 1: they had seen Rebecca own the car, and people comment

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Speaker 1: and it's a small place. Yeah, there was a car

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Speaker 1: load of people that were stopped with her and we

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Speaker 1: were trying to find out who it was. And I

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Speaker 1: can't remember, but it was unifor in now, but it

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Speaker 1: was a car load of them. But I'm okay, it's

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Speaker 1: dangerous trying to get it from her. I've heard you know,

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Speaker 1: she may be responsible for the deaths of her parents,

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Speaker 1: maybe other people. Certainly, even if she didn't do any

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Speaker 1: of that. She's still a tough girl, you know. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's putting it really lightly. So you were there

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Speaker 1: that week you're looking for Rebecca, When did you When

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Speaker 1: did Jennifer's name first come up for you? Oh? Right up,

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Speaker 1: right away, right away? Because that was the car load

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Speaker 1: of people. This is the first I've heard of a

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Speaker 1: car load of people confronting Rebecca. We need to look

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Speaker 1: into this. As we keep talking, Shirley tells me a

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Speaker 1: story about some earrings she gave Rebecca. You could call it.

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Speaker 1: Google it on the internet, where they'd make them in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: your gold hearing. And then this guy that I knew,

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Speaker 1: he went to Mexico and he brought them back and

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Speaker 1: he gave them to me because he liked me. But

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Speaker 1: Rebecca asked me to borrow up hearing aid here and

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Speaker 1: it's the Lord's prayer. I think you have to have

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Speaker 1: a magnifying glass to see. But there's their goals and

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Speaker 1: the Lord's prayers written up. If you ever ran Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: look at her ears because I figured, you know, to gott.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen or heard about any earrings in Rebecca's

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Speaker 1: belongings or that she was wearing any at the time

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Speaker 1: of her death. So was Shirley mistaken or could the

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Speaker 1: killer of taking the earrings as a souvenir. I know

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Speaker 1: who did it, I just want to foot behind bars.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, Rebecca's father, Larry, has gotten hundreds of

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Speaker 1: tips and conducted an exhaustive investigation, and one day he

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Speaker 1: got a letter from unlikely source. Brian Bangs. Brian is

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's x husband. He's also a convicted double murderer. He

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Speaker 1: killed Jennifer's parents. Brian was found guilty of two counts

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Speaker 1: of capital murder in the deaths of his mother in

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Speaker 1: law and father in law. He was also convicted of rape,

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Speaker 1: class B felony, kidnapping, and first degree felony battery of

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Speaker 1: his wife. Jennifer. Well, I didn't know the story behind Brian.

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Speaker 1: I had to research the story, and I know that

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Speaker 1: the first time he reached out to me, I think

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Speaker 1: he I believe he told me bits and pieces of it.

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Speaker 1: He was given two life sentences plus eighty five years.

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Speaker 1: He's currently serving as sentence in the Cummins Unit of

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Speaker 1: the Arkansas Department of Corrections with no possibility of parole.

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Speaker 1: Brian has maintained his innocence over the years, but at trial,

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Speaker 1: the prosecutors presented a compelling case. They that Brian went

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Speaker 1: to Jennifer's parents' house and hid in the bathroom shower.

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Speaker 1: He waited until the family went to sleep at around

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Speaker 1: ten thirty pm, then crept through the house to the

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Speaker 1: bedroom and shot them in their bed. After shooting Jennifer's parents,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer testified that Brian yanked her up out of the bed,

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Speaker 1: hit her in the head with a gun, and dragged

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Speaker 1: her through the hallway by her foot, leaving bloodstains on

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Speaker 1: the carpet. He tied her up and eventually drove her

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Speaker 1: into the woods where he attacked her. As I got

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Speaker 1: talking to other people that were familiar with what had

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Speaker 1: taken place, I realized that some of the same players

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Speaker 1: were involved with Debs. In his letters to Larry, Brian

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Speaker 1: wrote that he believes Jennifer is a sociopathic killer who

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Speaker 1: was involved in Rebecca's death and in the death of

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Speaker 1: her parents. In one of his appeals, Brian claimed that

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's mother was sitting up in the bed when he

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Speaker 1: shot her, and then he merely clicked and began shooting. However,

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Speaker 1: the medical examiner testified that both of Jennifer's parents' injuries

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Speaker 1: were consistent with their lying asleep in bed when they

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Speaker 1: were shot. I think part of Brian's motive in wanting

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Speaker 1: to assist us with Rebecca's case is the fact that

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Speaker 1: he thinks helping find her killer might help him. And

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Speaker 1: obviously we have to take anything he says with a

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Speaker 1: massive grain of salt. But if him believing that his

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Speaker 1: case will turn into the next West Memphis three will

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Speaker 1: get him to talk about Rebecca, I'm all for doing

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Speaker 1: an interview. I gave Brian a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt to start with, and I felt

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Speaker 1: like maybe exploring it. So I had an individual go

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Speaker 1: down there and talk to him and determine what the

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Speaker 1: actual story was, and also to give me an opinion

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Speaker 1: of the veracity of what his statements were. And the

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Speaker 1: feeling was that he was being truthful. And then I

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Speaker 1: finally decided much later to try to go to see him.

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Speaker 1: And then you have to get all kinds of approof

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Speaker 1: and they ended up, according to him, they denied us

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Speaker 1: right to get together. Now I'm trying to get permission

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Speaker 1: to see him right now, and it'd be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see you know what he says now about all that

201
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Speaker 1: and if it's changed, And they, of course they said

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Speaker 1: we filled our forms out wrong. So now we're kind

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Speaker 1: of maybe going through a version of what you went through.

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Speaker 1: We'll see. I've been trying to organize a visit with Brian,

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Speaker 1: but I keep getting denied. As a licensed private investigator,

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Speaker 1: I was required to pass a fairly stringent background check,

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Speaker 1: so I find this refusal a bit strange, and no

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Speaker 1: one will tell me why I've been refused. It's things

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Speaker 1: like that that happened to you that make you go

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Speaker 1: why what? What are people trying to protect here? Finally,

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Speaker 1: after a week of back and forth, Taylor gets approved.

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Speaker 1: She logs on and can see Brian sitting in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a public area in the prison. Hey Brian,

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Speaker 1: so what's been going on? How's everything going? So one

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Speaker 1: day of the time. Video conferencing with the prisoner is

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Speaker 1: a bit surreal because you feel like you're right there

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Speaker 1: in the prison. You can see the other inmates behind

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Speaker 1: the person you're talking with, playing cards on cold metal

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Speaker 1: tables and walking around in their wife beaters. Brian is

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Speaker 1: in his fifties and he still sports a mustache. He

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Speaker 1: has thick, round framed glasses that are oddly fashionable. Brian

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Speaker 1: wears earbuds and mentions he likes listening to music. He

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Speaker 1: writes in one of his letters to Taylor to download

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Speaker 1: Princess of the Dawn by the group Except branches up

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Speaker 1: with Don. What exactly was the timeline of your relationship

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Speaker 1: with Jennifer? Brian's video feed starts to sputter. He freezes

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Speaker 1: up in digital static as he talks, Well, we doing

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Speaker 1: each other. That's where we're key is when she done

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Speaker 1: six things, she started working at Beta Hut, and one

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Speaker 1: of the guys that she went to school with around

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Speaker 1: with me all the time, and he kept telling me

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Speaker 1: when he's going out to the Jennifer. And finally we

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Speaker 1: went my Pizza Hut and got st to drink and

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Speaker 1: she started talking with me, and after she got off

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Speaker 1: work that night, she started chasing me around and pretty

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Speaker 1: much until she called me. And now that was from

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Speaker 1: May of ninety three until we started sticking together in

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Speaker 1: October ninety three, and our relationship just forgiving them then

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Speaker 1: and when he ended up getting married and having a

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Speaker 1: fun after my Bay the drivers got killed, we was

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Speaker 1: in a car wreck and he got killed and I

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Speaker 1: tied it well, you know, he got killed on a Thursday.

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Speaker 1: We buried him on a Sunday, and she just said

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Speaker 1: nothing to me, is Jack. Everything was fine. We wept

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Speaker 1: together right now, we dinner together right now, went to

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Speaker 1: bed the other got up. The next morning, she got

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Speaker 1: up and go to work and I got up to

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Speaker 1: go to work and she never come home. In late

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, Brian got into a car wreck and

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Speaker 1: shortly after that Jennifer left him. Next Sunday is when

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Speaker 1: I got tolded you on Monday. I think they was

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Speaker 1: still on a Sunday, and I was charged on the

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Speaker 1: next day or the next day. Time, my dad, When

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Speaker 1: did you originally hear about Rebecca's case? Somebody sent me

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Speaker 1: news never quitting and they wrote in the bottom of

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Speaker 1: it strange but jimfers players to be involved in that.

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Speaker 1: And then after that, when did you reach out to Larry?

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Speaker 1: It probably took a while after that. Now Brian has

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Speaker 1: been writing Larry letters for years and offered to help

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Speaker 1: him with Rebecca's case, and a lot of what he

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Speaker 1: writes can only qualify as jailhouse rumors and unqualified leads.

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Speaker 1: He claims that his ex wife and other members of

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Speaker 1: her family were involved in Jennifer's parents murder. Some of

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Speaker 1: his claims in the letters are bizarre. He said that

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Speaker 1: he spoke to someone in prison who told him that

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Speaker 1: Rebecca was tortured and held hostage for several days on

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Speaker 1: a mattress, But it was in the first letter that

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Speaker 1: he pointed the finger at Jennifer. Different people come through

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Speaker 1: here that I spoke with and everything, and after that one,

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Speaker 1: I've got a hold of Hilary and from you know,

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Speaker 1: because I heard from more than one person that Jennifer

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Speaker 1: was connected with it, and I to trying to give

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Speaker 1: him some sort of closure, you know, days, you know,

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Speaker 1: Taylor asked Brian about what Jennifer's motive may have been

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Speaker 1: if she killed Rebecca. They would have been over. Just

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Speaker 1: from I understanding, Rebecca and Justin were a couple, and

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Speaker 1: then Jennifer started dating, and then Jennifer got pregnant, and uh,

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Speaker 1: she don't really been a new Rebecca, Wasn't it? A

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Speaker 1: number of times at the time of Rebecca's murder, Jennifer

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Speaker 1: was pregnant with Justin's baby, she was jealous of Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: and they were no longer friends. Brian has sent us

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Speaker 1: a bunch of witness statements, but none of them have

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Speaker 1: notary seals, so I'm not sure how legit they are.

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Speaker 1: I've got newspaper clippings that I've got out of three

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Speaker 1: different papers. I'm not a witness statement him and his wife.

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00:17:42,325 --> 00:17:45,365
Speaker 1: They witnessed Jennifer and Rebecca of a fight and a

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Speaker 1: physical altercation at a place called Reno's and made port

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Speaker 1: the gas station. And then I've got another witness statement

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Speaker 1: that that I can't remember. I call this what I've got,

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he wrote down that he was at a

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Speaker 1: party in Leslie and Jim for injustins Or. We know

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Speaker 1: that people in town are scared of Jennifer, but is

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Speaker 1: she really capable of murder? And on that morning would

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Speaker 1: she have had a reason to target Rebecca? And Jennifer

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00:18:18,085 --> 00:18:21,245
Speaker 1: got into an argument with some people and she pulled

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Speaker 1: out a pistol and waved it around and made some

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Speaker 1: threatening statements for the crowd. If like one day she

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Speaker 1: would be somebody else, and then maybe an hour later

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Speaker 1: she talking to somebody totally different and different person, and

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Speaker 1: and if she gets mad at you, she just hers

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Speaker 1: is kind of blackout, h that she just wants to fight.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's hard to explain. People just say

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Speaker 1: to die around her, you know. I don't know. If

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00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,765
Speaker 1: you come up with any names that you know her

305
00:19:01,805 --> 00:19:03,805
Speaker 1: around her coming this play, let me know one. I'll

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Speaker 1: try to speak with them, all right, Hi, Brian, believe you?

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00:19:08,285 --> 00:19:15,565
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye. Brian makes some pretty incredible claims, and

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Speaker 1: after talking with him, I don't feel comfortable accepting them

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00:19:18,725 --> 00:19:21,765
Speaker 1: as fact. But his offer to be our man on

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Speaker 1: the inside if we need information from anyone else in

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Speaker 1: jail is one I'll keep in my back pocket like

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00:19:27,285 --> 00:19:30,445
Speaker 1: everyone else. In this case, Rebecca had several different sides

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Speaker 1: to her personality. According to Danielle, she was a person

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Speaker 1: who would take the shirt off her back to help

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Speaker 1: a friend in trouble, but she also did not shy

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Speaker 1: away from conflict. Multiple witnesses, friends, and family all say

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Speaker 1: that Rebecca got into arguments with a few different women

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Speaker 1: before she died. In addition to Jennifer, we've also heard

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Speaker 1: that Rebecca had argued with Teresa. She's Jennifer's cousin and

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Speaker 1: also worked at Sonic with Casey Forgets six degrees of separation.

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Speaker 1: In this case, there seemed to be at most too

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Speaker 1: we talked to Teresa and she She says that Rebecca

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Speaker 1: had been living with her and they got into a

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Speaker 1: fight of her unpaid bills. After Rebecca left the house

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00:20:11,445 --> 00:20:14,685
Speaker 1: without saying anything, Teresa told us they had another argument

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Speaker 1: at Sonic. Teresa also said that Rebecca's dog was shot

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Speaker 1: just a few weeks before her murder. Rebecca was crying

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Speaker 1: at Sonic and Teresa hugged her. She told us that

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Speaker 1: she was relieved that they had made up before she died.

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Speaker 1: We need to understand more about Rebecca's history with Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: and we have to be careful when we talk about

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's case in public, because you never know who will

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00:20:38,965 --> 00:20:42,525
Speaker 1: be around. So we go back to Rebecca's sister, Danielle.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's ex has been calling the cops and telling them

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00:20:47,885 --> 00:20:51,725
Speaker 1: that she did it. Like also like he's been saying that, so,

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00:20:51,805 --> 00:20:53,005
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows, he says. I know he's a

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00:20:53,005 --> 00:20:55,965
Speaker 1: convicted criminal, but but she should have went down with

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Speaker 1: him then, And you know, Jennifer's just not a good person.

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00:21:02,125 --> 00:21:08,045
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of jealousy from Jennifer to Rebecca.

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00:21:08,845 --> 00:21:11,365
Speaker 1: I mean, I could see why, but I could Seecauseurecca

341
00:21:11,445 --> 00:21:17,045
Speaker 1: was gorgeous and what was justin Rebecca's relationship, Like, they

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00:21:17,085 --> 00:21:25,365
Speaker 1: were together for over seven years, they lived together, they

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00:21:25,405 --> 00:21:29,645
Speaker 1: were they were normal. I mean, they may have fought

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00:21:29,645 --> 00:21:33,605
Speaker 1: a few times, but they were together and then they

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Speaker 1: split up. And do you think he was still in

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00:21:37,765 --> 00:21:45,325
Speaker 1: love with her? Oh? Yeah, I do. Were they still

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00:21:45,365 --> 00:21:48,165
Speaker 1: involved in any way at the time that she died,

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00:21:50,165 --> 00:21:54,765
Speaker 1: Not that I know of, and he was involved with Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just wondering if Jennifer would have gotten

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Speaker 1: mad enough, if you know, like, if it's like, how

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Speaker 1: well do you know Jennifer, you think she could get

352
00:22:03,725 --> 00:22:10,285
Speaker 1: mad enough to do it? Yeah, I just don't know why.

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Speaker 1: The costs are so like ruled Jennifer out so fast

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00:22:13,405 --> 00:22:16,405
Speaker 1: based on some shopping receipts, you know, like when I

355
00:22:16,405 --> 00:22:20,445
Speaker 1: have heard more than one person that she it seems

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Speaker 1: very honest. So we got it, We got life. Nick

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00:22:22,605 --> 00:22:26,125
Speaker 1: always said, because Nick was related to Jennifer, we always

358
00:22:26,165 --> 00:22:30,885
Speaker 1: said it had something to do with the previous with

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00:22:30,965 --> 00:22:33,725
Speaker 1: her parents. That's how she got out of that, and

360
00:22:33,765 --> 00:22:38,805
Speaker 1: something with her lawyer. Then there was something there and

361
00:22:38,845 --> 00:22:42,285
Speaker 1: that's why she got out of the prior thing with

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Speaker 1: Okay parents, So you know, maybe that's long or not

363
00:22:49,845 --> 00:22:51,925
Speaker 1: going after her. I don't say to you understand, yes

364
00:22:51,925 --> 00:22:56,205
Speaker 1: I do. After talking with Danielle, it seems clear that

365
00:22:56,245 --> 00:23:00,005
Speaker 1: there are definitely some tangled relationships between Jennifer, Rebecca, and

366
00:23:00,165 --> 00:23:02,765
Speaker 1: Justin that we need to sort out and just our luck.

367
00:23:03,045 --> 00:23:06,525
Speaker 1: Jennifer skipped town and she's staying in Florida. Jennifer ended

368
00:23:06,605 --> 00:23:09,365
Speaker 1: up marrying Justin and they had a daughter together, but

369
00:23:09,405 --> 00:23:13,405
Speaker 1: they eventually divorced and Justin's remarried. Now, Justin was the

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00:23:13,405 --> 00:23:16,925
Speaker 1: love of Rebecca's life for years, but Jennifer was pregnant

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Speaker 1: with his child at the time Rebecca was murdered. Could

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00:23:20,125 --> 00:23:22,125
Speaker 1: this have been a motive for him to cover for her?

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00:23:24,725 --> 00:23:27,565
Speaker 1: Like so many people in this case, people's opinion of

374
00:23:27,765 --> 00:23:31,165
Speaker 1: Justin depends on who you're talking to. Some say he's

375
00:23:31,165 --> 00:23:35,445
Speaker 1: a sweetheart, Others claim he's an abusive monster. Jennifer and

376
00:23:35,525 --> 00:23:38,965
Speaker 1: Justin are finally a part. They were back and forth

377
00:23:38,965 --> 00:23:41,325
Speaker 1: three years that the people who cared about Rebecca like

378
00:23:41,645 --> 00:23:43,965
Speaker 1: they want to talk about this. You can almost like

379
00:23:44,005 --> 00:23:46,805
Speaker 1: feel it in the air around here. People want to

380
00:23:46,805 --> 00:23:49,445
Speaker 1: talk about this shit. You know something's going to happen.

381
00:23:50,045 --> 00:23:52,845
Speaker 1: People have told me Justin's you know, really cares about

382
00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:56,125
Speaker 1: this case. Jennifer didn't like Rebecca, so I find it vvery.

383
00:23:56,285 --> 00:23:58,045
Speaker 1: She'll probably shut the door in our face no matter what,

384
00:23:58,445 --> 00:24:00,445
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean even if she was here.

385
00:24:00,485 --> 00:24:01,965
Speaker 1: So I don't think we're gonna get that much from her.

386
00:24:02,405 --> 00:24:05,725
Speaker 1: Since we can't get to Jennifer, Justin is who need

387
00:24:05,765 --> 00:24:08,725
Speaker 1: to find next. I write him a letter explaining who

388
00:24:08,765 --> 00:24:11,045
Speaker 1: we are and what we're doing and put it into

389
00:24:11,085 --> 00:24:17,045
Speaker 1: a sealed envelope. All right, so we're going to find Justin.

390
00:24:17,245 --> 00:24:20,885
Speaker 1: He now works at a boat place. Yeah, we got

391
00:24:21,085 --> 00:24:24,245
Speaker 1: he was working construction and I think that project finished,

392
00:24:24,285 --> 00:24:26,485
Speaker 1: and we got a message, we got a tip. So

393
00:24:27,885 --> 00:24:31,285
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to his work, and I think this

394
00:24:31,405 --> 00:24:34,565
Speaker 1: is our best shot at getting him by himself, and

395
00:24:34,845 --> 00:24:37,405
Speaker 1: worst case, he's not there, and we leave the letter

396
00:24:38,045 --> 00:24:41,325
Speaker 1: and then he calls us back. One three miles, take

397
00:24:41,365 --> 00:24:46,325
Speaker 1: a sea turn on to Mabel Drive either way either way,

398
00:24:46,365 --> 00:24:49,205
Speaker 1: it's better to do it this way rather than walk

399
00:24:49,285 --> 00:24:51,005
Speaker 1: up to his house. He and his wife could get

400
00:24:51,045 --> 00:24:54,325
Speaker 1: in a confrontation, or she could just get involved. And

401
00:24:54,805 --> 00:24:57,645
Speaker 1: a lot of times the new wife will get protective,

402
00:24:57,725 --> 00:24:59,805
Speaker 1: and you know, she doesn't really need to be involved.

403
00:24:59,805 --> 00:25:02,685
Speaker 1: We need to get him by himself. I'm kind of scared.

404
00:25:02,725 --> 00:25:06,525
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I'm just nervous. I'm I'd be

405
00:25:06,605 --> 00:25:09,045
Speaker 1: lying if I said I wasn't nervous. All right, here

406
00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:12,445
Speaker 1: it is turn wow, it really is right by the

407
00:25:12,445 --> 00:25:17,725
Speaker 1: court complex. Arrived, should work here, We should be heard here.

408
00:25:18,245 --> 00:25:21,045
Speaker 1: We walk in and ask for Justin and we're pointed

409
00:25:21,085 --> 00:25:24,125
Speaker 1: around back to the break area. But you can go

410
00:25:24,445 --> 00:25:27,325
Speaker 1: around the building here. Oh god, outside the break room,

411
00:25:27,485 --> 00:25:30,685
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some people like smoking. Got you? Okay,

412
00:25:31,045 --> 00:25:39,405
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you? Definitely Hey, which my find Justin?

413
00:25:40,325 --> 00:25:43,245
Speaker 1: A guy comes up to help us. Oh, we're on

414
00:25:43,325 --> 00:25:46,125
Speaker 1: lockdright mouth, she said. He pokes his head into a

415
00:25:46,165 --> 00:25:51,165
Speaker 1: door and comes back. Now there can we can we

416
00:25:51,245 --> 00:25:53,205
Speaker 1: leave a letter for him? Which all mind? Will you

417
00:25:53,205 --> 00:26:00,365
Speaker 1: give it to home? All right? Thank you, thank you,

418
00:26:00,085 --> 00:26:03,365
Speaker 1: thank you. Taylor and I head back to the car

419
00:26:03,685 --> 00:26:07,325
Speaker 1: on all. I wish we'd gotten him, but like, considering

420
00:26:07,325 --> 00:26:09,645
Speaker 1: we didn't, we found he's definitely here. We could have

421
00:26:09,725 --> 00:26:12,245
Speaker 1: driven around and not found him. Yeah, we found him.

422
00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:15,725
Speaker 1: He's gonna also know we know where he works. Yeah,

423
00:26:15,925 --> 00:26:18,885
Speaker 1: Like so it's almost like not you can't hide in

424
00:26:18,925 --> 00:26:21,645
Speaker 1: a sinister way, but you kind of can't hide. Later

425
00:26:21,685 --> 00:26:28,485
Speaker 1: that day, my phone rings, It's Justin. We'll be right back.

426
00:26:31,365 --> 00:26:34,645
Speaker 1: After getting our letter, Justin calls us, and he and

427
00:26:34,725 --> 00:26:37,125
Speaker 1: his wife agree to meet us at a local pizza shops.

428
00:26:37,245 --> 00:26:42,245
Speaker 1: So you're Caroline's sister. Yeah, I've seen Larry's photos of

429
00:26:42,365 --> 00:26:44,605
Speaker 1: Justin and Rebecca from high school when they were together.

430
00:26:45,405 --> 00:26:49,125
Speaker 1: Back then, he looked like a sweet kid, skinny tan

431
00:26:49,565 --> 00:26:52,645
Speaker 1: with shiny black hair, all dressed up for the prom

432
00:26:52,685 --> 00:26:55,725
Speaker 1: and a tucks with Rebecca on his arm. I've also

433
00:26:55,845 --> 00:27:00,485
Speaker 1: seen his mugshot. He's older, harder looking, his hair has

434
00:27:00,565 --> 00:27:04,605
Speaker 1: lost that shine, and his eyes are sunken in. He's unrecognizable.

435
00:27:04,805 --> 00:27:09,285
Speaker 1: He just tell us little bit about Rebecca. Uh, yeah,

436
00:27:09,325 --> 00:27:13,485
Speaker 1: she was. She was my girlfriend in like tenth grade

437
00:27:13,525 --> 00:27:17,445
Speaker 1: in high school until just probably a week before that

438
00:27:17,525 --> 00:27:23,165
Speaker 1: happened to her. I mean she she meant everything to me.

439
00:27:23,245 --> 00:27:27,765
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we was, uh it was like that,

440
00:27:27,885 --> 00:27:31,445
Speaker 1: you know, it was like best friends and and uh,

441
00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:34,365
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was just the worst thing that

442
00:27:34,405 --> 00:27:39,885
Speaker 1: ever happened to me a week. That's surprising. According to Danielle,

443
00:27:40,285 --> 00:27:43,365
Speaker 1: Rebecca and Justin had been broken up for a year. Yeah,

444
00:27:43,365 --> 00:27:46,605
Speaker 1: I mean she was just a na suspers she ever made,

445
00:27:47,005 --> 00:27:51,205
Speaker 1: and I don't know, she had the biggest start in

446
00:27:51,205 --> 00:27:53,445
Speaker 1: the world failure how much all over the Baker. I

447
00:27:53,445 --> 00:27:57,125
Speaker 1: mean I named my daughter the Baker. I mean I

448
00:27:57,245 --> 00:28:04,085
Speaker 1: just like you said, And I know it's hard on everybody,

449
00:28:04,205 --> 00:28:10,445
Speaker 1: like but it's tell people. Yeah, yeah, so that's what

450
00:28:10,485 --> 00:28:12,085
Speaker 1: I said, you know what I mean. Yeah, that is

451
00:28:12,085 --> 00:28:20,725
Speaker 1: hard on worthy, you know, for be done. Justin's wife

452
00:28:20,725 --> 00:28:23,245
Speaker 1: seems shy and a bit nervous at first, but she's

453
00:28:23,365 --> 00:28:26,605
Speaker 1: very helpful and seems sincere and it's clear that she

454
00:28:26,645 --> 00:28:30,445
Speaker 1: wants to help her husband get closure. Yeah that's something

455
00:28:30,485 --> 00:28:33,965
Speaker 1: that's like, wait on him for I know the whole

456
00:28:33,965 --> 00:28:36,805
Speaker 1: time we've been together, and would help and help him

457
00:28:36,845 --> 00:28:40,725
Speaker 1: so much. No, that's what I'm saying. I laugh to forget.

458
00:28:41,525 --> 00:28:43,565
Speaker 1: I remember I was in the car with her, and

459
00:28:43,645 --> 00:28:46,845
Speaker 1: I remember we wrote up down by the ballpark. She's

460
00:28:46,885 --> 00:28:50,445
Speaker 1: his name with us. She gotta go over to her.

461
00:28:51,525 --> 00:28:55,365
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't When he talks about the last

462
00:28:55,405 --> 00:28:58,965
Speaker 1: time he saw Rebecca, Justin stares out the window and

463
00:28:59,125 --> 00:29:01,085
Speaker 1: for a second I can tell he's right back in

464
00:29:01,085 --> 00:29:06,085
Speaker 1: that ball field. I can't imagine, like what, yeah, what

465
00:29:06,125 --> 00:29:08,845
Speaker 1: that effect could have on you. She's moving forward not

466
00:29:09,005 --> 00:29:12,885
Speaker 1: knowing what you know, what's happened. Yeah, it's you know,

467
00:29:13,085 --> 00:29:16,285
Speaker 1: I mean it bought him every day. I got real

468
00:29:16,325 --> 00:29:19,245
Speaker 1: bad on drugs after it happened and just kind of

469
00:29:19,245 --> 00:29:26,205
Speaker 1: went downhill and just kept digging. So yeah, it has

470
00:29:26,245 --> 00:29:31,045
Speaker 1: a tough it has the on me. Do you remember

471
00:29:31,045 --> 00:29:34,605
Speaker 1: when you heard that she was missing. Yeah, I was

472
00:29:34,685 --> 00:29:38,565
Speaker 1: in uh, turning to Mississippi with my dad at casino.

473
00:29:40,365 --> 00:29:45,725
Speaker 1: The phone started ringing there and it was her shyestery Danielle.

474
00:29:46,325 --> 00:29:49,245
Speaker 1: They was hoping she was with me, you know, and

475
00:29:49,965 --> 00:29:54,605
Speaker 1: what she was and and uh, I told him, you

476
00:29:54,645 --> 00:29:57,845
Speaker 1: know that I would come to look for right end,

477
00:29:57,925 --> 00:30:01,085
Speaker 1: you know, and I did so. He also remembers the

478
00:30:01,125 --> 00:30:06,605
Speaker 1: investigation because he became a suspect along with and it

479
00:30:06,685 --> 00:30:10,005
Speaker 1: was like six months down the line. I mean, I'm

480
00:30:10,045 --> 00:30:12,245
Speaker 1: sitting here thinking that they're getting closer to soul in

481
00:30:12,285 --> 00:30:17,925
Speaker 1: this case, you know. And was I wrong? Because then

482
00:30:18,005 --> 00:30:22,245
Speaker 1: they get me up there and then my eggs and

483
00:30:22,285 --> 00:30:26,285
Speaker 1: I mean intergurated is bad. I mean together their hands separately.

484
00:30:27,725 --> 00:30:31,205
Speaker 1: They was telling me how I done it, things like that,

485
00:30:31,485 --> 00:30:34,125
Speaker 1: you know, almost like those want me to just tell them.

486
00:30:34,165 --> 00:30:37,165
Speaker 1: I doney Justin says he helped the family with the search,

487
00:30:37,765 --> 00:30:40,605
Speaker 1: but six months later, he and Jennifer both got called

488
00:30:40,645 --> 00:30:43,725
Speaker 1: in for questioning did you and did you ever talk

489
00:30:43,765 --> 00:30:50,605
Speaker 1: about the murder? Yeah? I mean I really can't remember

490
00:30:51,205 --> 00:30:53,405
Speaker 1: how much about talking about it. I mean she came

491
00:30:53,445 --> 00:30:55,725
Speaker 1: over there, she was there with me helping look for it.

492
00:30:56,605 --> 00:31:00,125
Speaker 1: As we're talking, I keep watching Justin's new wife. She

493
00:31:00,205 --> 00:31:02,725
Speaker 1: looks down like she wants to say something, just because

494
00:31:02,765 --> 00:31:08,485
Speaker 1: I've like experienced her since being with him. But that

495
00:31:08,605 --> 00:31:11,485
Speaker 1: was with her for twelve years, you know, and God

496
00:31:11,485 --> 00:31:14,365
Speaker 1: helped me if I went to sleep with her there.

497
00:31:14,445 --> 00:31:19,685
Speaker 1: If she's that type of person, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, well,

498
00:31:19,725 --> 00:31:21,805
Speaker 1: I think got heard from the things she's said to me,

499
00:31:22,085 --> 00:31:26,045
Speaker 1: like she's she's crazy. This girl she does a lot

500
00:31:26,085 --> 00:31:31,285
Speaker 1: of thread and stuff like that. And yeah, in the

501
00:31:31,325 --> 00:31:35,725
Speaker 1: years they've been together, Justin's wife has experienced Jennifer's explosive tendency.

502
00:31:35,805 --> 00:31:39,685
Speaker 1: Is firsthand. I know that when domestic violence has involved

503
00:31:39,685 --> 00:31:43,205
Speaker 1: in relationships, people can have two sides to their personality.

504
00:31:44,405 --> 00:31:48,045
Speaker 1: I asked Justin about Jennifer's alibi. Where was she supposedly

505
00:31:48,165 --> 00:31:54,125
Speaker 1: on that one day she was supposedly in Conway. She

506
00:31:54,245 --> 00:31:58,645
Speaker 1: kept all of hevery keet. We lived in Perryville at

507
00:31:58,685 --> 00:32:02,405
Speaker 1: the time, me and her in that apartment. Perryville is

508
00:32:02,445 --> 00:32:05,925
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes from Conway outside of Little Rock. That's

509
00:32:05,925 --> 00:32:09,725
Speaker 1: about two hours from Melbourne in Mountain View. And she

510
00:32:09,885 --> 00:32:13,605
Speaker 1: was supposedly on camera and had received from doing shopping

511
00:32:13,605 --> 00:32:16,485
Speaker 1: and Conway. That's that's like all I can remember about it.

512
00:32:16,525 --> 00:32:21,685
Speaker 1: But would Jennifer known where Casey lived? Do you think

513
00:32:22,965 --> 00:32:25,525
Speaker 1: sting On he was gone? She used to be his

514
00:32:25,685 --> 00:32:30,965
Speaker 1: manager at Melbournsonia don't know that, so yeah, she probably did.

515
00:32:31,125 --> 00:32:34,205
Speaker 1: Do you know if Jennifer and Casey were like friends

516
00:32:34,325 --> 00:32:38,325
Speaker 1: or just they weren't. I'm terrified of her, yeah, I

517
00:32:38,365 --> 00:32:40,525
Speaker 1: mean I hate she is too. I mean, but she

518
00:32:40,645 --> 00:32:42,605
Speaker 1: has a reason to be outfore we feel luck and

519
00:32:42,645 --> 00:32:46,405
Speaker 1: then just the stuff she says and stuff. I think

520
00:32:46,445 --> 00:32:50,365
Speaker 1: Rebecca could have held her own letter, Yeah, I really did.

521
00:32:50,685 --> 00:32:53,365
Speaker 1: Rebecca was a scrapper. Yeah. I thank God for y'all.

522
00:32:53,525 --> 00:32:57,725
Speaker 1: I mean, God bless you for that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

523
00:32:57,765 --> 00:33:00,845
Speaker 1: I'm just so glad that somebody's doing that, and Rebecca

524
00:33:00,965 --> 00:33:04,325
Speaker 1: deserves to have somebody for yeah, especially like you you know,

525
00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:07,605
Speaker 1: somebody tell me like he really needs to be in

526
00:33:07,645 --> 00:33:09,645
Speaker 1: her corner. Who cares and knew what was going on.

527
00:33:10,165 --> 00:33:16,965
Speaker 1: I am, I promise your thank you. Justin and his

528
00:33:17,005 --> 00:33:19,485
Speaker 1: wife leave, and Taylor and I look at each other.

529
00:33:20,245 --> 00:33:24,485
Speaker 1: We're both thinking the same thing. That torment about Bez

530
00:33:24,565 --> 00:33:30,005
Speaker 1: is genuine. You can see her like you can see it.

531
00:33:30,085 --> 00:33:33,125
Speaker 1: Also totally didn't have to help her come forward. It

532
00:33:33,165 --> 00:33:35,405
Speaker 1: sounds like they were together a lot closer to the time.

533
00:33:39,085 --> 00:33:41,325
Speaker 1: She's the first person that we can actually put like

534
00:33:42,365 --> 00:33:47,405
Speaker 1: she knew where to go. Yeah, so Justin just told

535
00:33:47,485 --> 00:33:50,085
Speaker 1: us that he and Rebecca were dating until just a

536
00:33:50,125 --> 00:33:54,005
Speaker 1: week before she was murdered. Could Jennifer have found out

537
00:33:54,045 --> 00:33:56,565
Speaker 1: that Justin was still seeing Rebecca and gotten into a

538
00:33:56,605 --> 00:33:59,005
Speaker 1: confrontation with her over the weekend that she decided to

539
00:33:59,045 --> 00:34:05,445
Speaker 1: finish on Monday morning, after we leave the pizza place

540
00:34:05,605 --> 00:34:07,965
Speaker 1: and get back in the car, Taylor and I regroup

541
00:34:08,525 --> 00:34:11,605
Speaker 1: after our conversation with Justin. We have a lot to unpack.

542
00:34:12,445 --> 00:34:16,245
Speaker 1: Several times during this investigation, we've heard that Rebecca's murder

543
00:34:16,325 --> 00:34:19,485
Speaker 1: involved more than one person, and that those people were

544
00:34:19,525 --> 00:34:23,365
Speaker 1: at a party over the weekend. We called George Jarrett

545
00:34:23,365 --> 00:34:25,085
Speaker 1: and tell us to meet us back at dad's house

546
00:34:25,085 --> 00:34:26,885
Speaker 1: to go over the murder board. There's a couple of

547
00:34:26,965 --> 00:34:30,045
Speaker 1: details that just and you know, being a private investigator

548
00:34:30,085 --> 00:34:32,285
Speaker 1: in addition to being a journalist, that just stood out

549
00:34:32,285 --> 00:34:36,845
Speaker 1: to me from the beginning. The folded clothes, sheets in

550
00:34:36,845 --> 00:34:40,125
Speaker 1: the washer, the fact that there was an attempt to

551
00:34:40,125 --> 00:34:44,005
Speaker 1: clean the house up right, I don't think a guy

552
00:34:44,405 --> 00:34:47,565
Speaker 1: and I've covered probably over a dozen capital murder cases,

553
00:34:49,125 --> 00:34:51,885
Speaker 1: you know. The first case in that that in that

554
00:34:52,165 --> 00:34:56,445
Speaker 1: Creekside Bones book that I wrote it, The first case

555
00:34:56,485 --> 00:34:58,405
Speaker 1: in there is about, you know, a father and son

556
00:34:58,685 --> 00:35:02,885
Speaker 1: who are convicted of ruthlessly slaughtering this family for they

557
00:35:02,925 --> 00:35:04,965
Speaker 1: didn't clean up the crime scene. I mean when they

558
00:35:05,005 --> 00:35:07,085
Speaker 1: went in that one of the murder weapons was still

559
00:35:07,485 --> 00:35:11,205
Speaker 1: laying in the little girl stuffed animals. I mean, so

560
00:35:11,285 --> 00:35:14,285
Speaker 1: they left, they left a lot of evidence. And so

561
00:35:15,245 --> 00:35:17,045
Speaker 1: it seems to me like it would be something more

562
00:35:17,085 --> 00:35:19,845
Speaker 1: like a female will do. Now, is it possible. I'm

563
00:35:19,845 --> 00:35:22,045
Speaker 1: a pretty cleanly guy. I cleaned my house all the time.

564
00:35:22,085 --> 00:35:25,005
Speaker 1: I'm very nipiggy. So is it possible? Yes, But if

565
00:35:25,005 --> 00:35:27,445
Speaker 1: I was an investigator, I would think that would be

566
00:35:27,485 --> 00:35:31,205
Speaker 1: the first place I would go. Well, I guess that's

567
00:35:31,205 --> 00:35:33,565
Speaker 1: also what I've been told. I've been told Jennifer and

568
00:35:33,605 --> 00:35:36,445
Speaker 1: Cindy were the girls that they that the family suspects,

569
00:35:38,405 --> 00:35:40,405
Speaker 1: you know, and I guess I asked myself, you know,

570
00:35:40,565 --> 00:35:43,165
Speaker 1: what's the motive if there was if they were at

571
00:35:43,165 --> 00:35:44,685
Speaker 1: a party and there was a fight at the party,

572
00:35:45,045 --> 00:35:48,885
Speaker 1: then it's a no brainer, you know. So then we

573
00:35:49,085 --> 00:35:52,045
Speaker 1: then we would then we have a direct line leading

574
00:35:52,445 --> 00:35:54,925
Speaker 1: to who the suspects in this case should be. The

575
00:35:55,005 --> 00:35:57,205
Speaker 1: way things were left in that place, with the kind

576
00:35:57,205 --> 00:36:00,005
Speaker 1: of ghetto not real cleanup, it brings me back to

577
00:36:00,045 --> 00:36:01,845
Speaker 1: somebody went there looking for a fight, not necessarily to

578
00:36:01,885 --> 00:36:03,285
Speaker 1: kill anyone, because the didn't bring a night for a gun,

579
00:36:03,365 --> 00:36:06,245
Speaker 1: right or we don't know for sure, but she died

580
00:36:06,285 --> 00:36:09,885
Speaker 1: from blunt forced trump according to the medical examiner. Okay,

581
00:36:09,925 --> 00:36:12,405
Speaker 1: so if in fact they did it with something that

582
00:36:12,485 --> 00:36:14,125
Speaker 1: was in there, happened to be in there, you know,

583
00:36:14,285 --> 00:36:18,365
Speaker 1: then that even more points to a crime of passion.

584
00:36:18,445 --> 00:36:20,525
Speaker 1: Crime passion. I mean, it really could have been a

585
00:36:20,525 --> 00:36:23,045
Speaker 1: fight that went too far. She might have been murdered

586
00:36:23,085 --> 00:36:24,645
Speaker 1: for the simple fact that they knew she'd be alone

587
00:36:24,685 --> 00:36:27,605
Speaker 1: at that time there, so they knew she'd be there,

588
00:36:28,685 --> 00:36:32,485
Speaker 1: But how they would know even if you knew Casey

589
00:36:32,525 --> 00:36:33,725
Speaker 1: and you knew he was going to leave his house,

590
00:36:33,765 --> 00:36:35,485
Speaker 1: there's no way you would know that she was there

591
00:36:35,645 --> 00:36:37,845
Speaker 1: unless you just, and I hate to use this term,

592
00:36:38,205 --> 00:36:41,285
Speaker 1: you just lucked out by her being there. George has

593
00:36:41,325 --> 00:36:44,405
Speaker 1: a point. If this was a crime of passion, a

594
00:36:44,445 --> 00:36:46,925
Speaker 1: fight that got out of hand, it would have to

595
00:36:46,925 --> 00:36:50,205
Speaker 1: be someone who knew where Rebecca was. And if there

596
00:36:50,325 --> 00:36:52,925
Speaker 1: was a fight, there has to be some evidence that

597
00:36:53,005 --> 00:36:56,445
Speaker 1: indicates that. Are there clues in the autopsy report that

598
00:36:56,485 --> 00:37:01,525
Speaker 1: could help us piece together what happened? We'll be right back.

599
00:37:07,085 --> 00:37:10,325
Speaker 1: According to the autopsy report, it didn't appear that there

600
00:37:10,325 --> 00:37:14,605
Speaker 1: were obvious defensive wounds. It got me wondering if Rebecca

601
00:37:14,685 --> 00:37:17,565
Speaker 1: got into a fight, she would have had defensive wounds, right,

602
00:37:18,365 --> 00:37:20,125
Speaker 1: But after a week of her body being out in

603
00:37:20,165 --> 00:37:22,805
Speaker 1: the elements, would you be able to even tell if

604
00:37:22,805 --> 00:37:27,685
Speaker 1: she had any defensive wounds. Decomposition there's real eyes on elements, right,

605
00:37:27,765 --> 00:37:30,685
Speaker 1: So the hotter it is, the faster body decomposes. This

606
00:37:30,845 --> 00:37:35,765
Speaker 1: is Jane Gorniac, a medical examiner in Atlanta. Some injuries

607
00:37:35,885 --> 00:37:39,125
Speaker 1: are they yet they have different colors to them, So

608
00:37:39,525 --> 00:37:42,565
Speaker 1: an acute or close to or around the time of

609
00:37:42,605 --> 00:37:45,605
Speaker 1: death if someone has an abrasion or laceration pro with

610
00:37:45,725 --> 00:37:49,325
Speaker 1: some body reaction to it, so it might be more red,

611
00:37:49,485 --> 00:37:52,085
Speaker 1: it might be a little inflamed. But when you have

612
00:37:52,165 --> 00:37:56,885
Speaker 1: an abrasion or elaceration after death, the tissue their body

613
00:37:56,885 --> 00:37:59,325
Speaker 1: didn't react to it, so there's not that red color,

614
00:37:59,725 --> 00:38:02,885
Speaker 1: so you'll probably see it as more of a yellow

615
00:38:03,005 --> 00:38:06,805
Speaker 1: or drying looking. But once a by they starts decomposing.

616
00:38:06,965 --> 00:38:09,605
Speaker 1: There's a lot of body changes that go along that

617
00:38:09,925 --> 00:38:12,965
Speaker 1: we could even tell if it's pre or post mortem,

618
00:38:13,565 --> 00:38:16,365
Speaker 1: so just depending on the tissue that's left. Also, so

619
00:38:17,045 --> 00:38:20,645
Speaker 1: the tissue can get dried, depending if there's things someone's

620
00:38:20,685 --> 00:38:22,965
Speaker 1: out in, you know, really hot, so the tissue can

621
00:38:23,045 --> 00:38:25,645
Speaker 1: dry or we call it. The other is puture faction,

622
00:38:25,845 --> 00:38:29,285
Speaker 1: where it's the bacteria that for black. I say they

623
00:38:29,325 --> 00:38:31,965
Speaker 1: start having a party, so your body starts really breaking down,

624
00:38:32,285 --> 00:38:35,605
Speaker 1: and it's more we call a wet decomp so that's

625
00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:39,845
Speaker 1: when people get blistery and bloated and there's fluid under

626
00:38:39,885 --> 00:38:44,885
Speaker 1: the skin, so that can change their appearance. So the

627
00:38:44,925 --> 00:38:48,605
Speaker 1: body gets a green black discoloration to it, so that

628
00:38:48,645 --> 00:38:53,205
Speaker 1: can mask any color of new abrasion or an old abrasion.

629
00:38:53,365 --> 00:38:55,965
Speaker 1: So even though there were no apparent defensive wounds indicated

630
00:38:55,965 --> 00:38:59,765
Speaker 1: on the autopsy report. It's possible that the decomposition of

631
00:38:59,805 --> 00:39:03,605
Speaker 1: Rebecca's body could have masked those wounds, but normally a

632
00:39:03,645 --> 00:39:06,885
Speaker 1: trained medical examiner would touch that. And then there's the

633
00:39:06,925 --> 00:39:09,885
Speaker 1: fact that we know Rebecca was a fighter. We've heard

634
00:39:09,885 --> 00:39:12,365
Speaker 1: it time and time again, so I don't think we

635
00:39:12,405 --> 00:39:14,165
Speaker 1: can rule out that she would have fought with her

636
00:39:14,245 --> 00:39:18,445
Speaker 1: killer that day. In fact, it's highly possible. The question

637
00:39:18,645 --> 00:39:21,965
Speaker 1: is was this a fight that escalated into murder or

638
00:39:22,005 --> 00:39:24,925
Speaker 1: was Rebecca surprised by her killer having to fight back

639
00:39:24,925 --> 00:39:26,725
Speaker 1: in the heat of the moment as her killer swung

640
00:39:26,765 --> 00:39:30,565
Speaker 1: at her. Some of the people involved in this case

641
00:39:30,565 --> 00:39:33,165
Speaker 1: may have been doing drugs, but despite what the police

642
00:39:33,165 --> 00:39:35,725
Speaker 1: may think, it's looking more and more unlikely that drugs

643
00:39:35,725 --> 00:39:39,565
Speaker 1: were the motive for this murder. Several times during this investigation,

644
00:39:40,005 --> 00:39:43,045
Speaker 1: we've heard that Rebecca's murder involved more than one person,

645
00:39:43,525 --> 00:39:46,285
Speaker 1: and that those people were at a party over the weekend,

646
00:39:47,325 --> 00:39:49,645
Speaker 1: but as far as we can tell, there was no party.

647
00:39:50,085 --> 00:39:52,485
Speaker 1: In fact, Rebecca kind of kept her two groups of

648
00:39:52,525 --> 00:39:56,045
Speaker 1: friends separate. Chris had never met Casey. We have heard

649
00:39:56,085 --> 00:39:58,165
Speaker 1: that Jennifer and Rebecca got into it at a party,

650
00:39:58,405 --> 00:40:00,685
Speaker 1: but it was a while back. To me, all the

651
00:40:00,725 --> 00:40:06,285
Speaker 1: stories are matching up. JB's story, Chris's story. Timelines are

652
00:40:06,325 --> 00:40:10,645
Speaker 1: a little uncertain because they were partying a lot at

653
00:40:10,645 --> 00:40:13,885
Speaker 1: the time, but yeah, I mean all of their stories

654
00:40:14,645 --> 00:40:17,885
Speaker 1: match up. Rebecca was the girl that men wanted and

655
00:40:17,925 --> 00:40:21,285
Speaker 1: women wanted to be, whether they loved her or hated her.

656
00:40:21,525 --> 00:40:24,205
Speaker 1: The person who killed Rebecca was obsessed with her, and

657
00:40:24,245 --> 00:40:26,245
Speaker 1: now we can add a new element to our murder board,

658
00:40:26,485 --> 00:40:29,805
Speaker 1: a love triangle. Jennifer is the only person so far

659
00:40:30,005 --> 00:40:32,605
Speaker 1: that we know knew where Casey's house was and potentially

660
00:40:32,645 --> 00:40:35,765
Speaker 1: knew Casey's work schedule and that Rebecca would be alone,

661
00:40:36,285 --> 00:40:38,405
Speaker 1: and if Justin was still involved with Rebecca a week

662
00:40:38,445 --> 00:40:41,365
Speaker 1: before she was killed, and when Jennifer was hormonal and

663
00:40:41,445 --> 00:40:44,525
Speaker 1: pregnant with Justin's baby, jealousy starts to look like a

664
00:40:44,565 --> 00:40:48,325
Speaker 1: real potential motive, But we know she had an alibi

665
00:40:48,605 --> 00:40:52,325
Speaker 1: with shopping receipts as proof, and the lack of defensive

666
00:40:52,325 --> 00:40:55,685
Speaker 1: wounds still gives me pause. This just doesn't seem like

667
00:40:55,725 --> 00:40:58,805
Speaker 1: a girl fight that got out of hand. We still

668
00:40:58,845 --> 00:41:01,965
Speaker 1: haven't found Jennifer to talk to her directly, but with

669
00:41:02,045 --> 00:41:04,685
Speaker 1: what we know right now, I don't think she's the

670
00:41:04,685 --> 00:41:08,645
Speaker 1: one where ultimately looking for. I'm Katherine Townsend and this

671
00:41:08,765 --> 00:41:29,245
Speaker 1: is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a joint production between

672
00:41:29,245 --> 00:41:32,605
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works and School of Humans. It is written

673
00:41:32,605 --> 00:41:36,285
Speaker 1: and recorded by me, Katherine Townsend. Taylor Church is our

674
00:41:36,285 --> 00:41:40,645
Speaker 1: producer and story editor. Audio editing and designed by Jonathan Sleeve,

675
00:41:41,165 --> 00:41:45,885
Speaker 1: mix engineer Glenn Mattulo, Audio mixing and love by Tounewelders.

676
00:41:46,405 --> 00:41:49,885
Speaker 1: Executive producers Brandon Barr and Else Crowley for School of

677
00:41:49,965 --> 00:41:53,605
Speaker 1: Humans and Conell Byrne and Chuck Bryant for How Stuff Works.

678
00:41:54,245 --> 00:41:59,045
Speaker 1: Our field producer is James Morrison. Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman.

679
00:41:59,885 --> 00:42:03,885
Speaker 1: Themon original score by Ben Solee available wherever you get

680
00:42:03,925 --> 00:42:10,925
Speaker 1: your music. To dig into the investigation, please visit hellgoonepodcast

681
00:42:11,045 --> 00:42:24,005
Speaker 1: dot com or follow us on social media School of

682
00:42:24,085 --> 00:42:24,525
Speaker 1: Humans